August 11, 2025 • 49 mins
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The sports landscape is transforming before our eyes, and nowhere is this more evident than in baseball's analytics revolution. Steve and Justice dive deep into how the New York Yankees have become almost comically dependent on computer-generated decisions, with constantly changing lineups and a roster that's unrecognizable from one season to the next. The analytics department nearly cost the team Aaron Judge, saved only by owner Hal Steinbrenner stepping in above the data-driven recommendations.
Beyond the Yankees, we explore baseball's existential challenges - from the massive financial disparities between teams (the Mets spending $323 million while the Marlins operate at just $67 million) to the dwindling talent pipeline. Youth baseball has become increasingly exclusive, with expensive travel teams becoming the primary pathway to college scholarships and professional opportunities, effectively locking out talented kids without financial resources.
The evolution of pitching provides another window into baseball's transformation. Today's hurlers rarely complete games and routinely undergo Tommy John surgery, even in high school - a stark contrast to legends like Bob Feller who pitched complete games on three days' rest. This specialization culture has created a climate where toughness seems diminished compared to previous generations.
We also tackle technology's broader impact across all sports - from cryptocurrency payments to players and NFT collectibles to the NFL's streaming partnership with ESPN. Perhaps most concerning is gambling's deep integration into sports culture, with team owners investing in betting platforms despite the ethical prohibitions that once saw legends like Mickey Mantle suspended merely for appearing at a casino after retirement.
Join us every other Monday at 6pm during football season as we continue to examine how technology, analytics, and commercial interests are fundamentally reimagining the games we love. Are we witnessing innovation or watching traditions that made sports special slowly disappear?
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Well, there we go.
Hello everyone.
I hope you saw that music and Ihope we're live.
This is Steve and Justice,again with Sport Talk.
I hope some of you and I knowsome of you have, whether it's
on the regular podcast, a betterlife.
Uh, new york, uh, sports talk,or you've heard it or saw it on
(00:34):
youtube.
I know we've had some followers, even though, once again, I
haven't been able to uhadvertise it ahead of time.
I don't know why.
I just hit the wrong buttonsand I was busy today so I
couldn't do it.
Justin, how are you?
I'm good.
Thanks for having me, steve.
So we got great response fromour last one and I know with
(00:57):
vacations, I'm away, he's away,kind of things.
We haven't been doing it, butwe're looking to do it every
other Monday at 6 o'clock for ahalf hour 45 minutes during the
football season.
Maybe we'll do it a little more, but we'll try to get it up on
Facebook and other places so itcan be advertised and seen.
I don't know what topics youwant to start on tonight, but I
(01:27):
know what has been somethingwe've talked about and it's been
in my craw is this unbelievableabuse.
I won't even say use.
I'm going to change it to abuseof analytics with the New York
Yankees?
It seems like a joke.
I'm disgusted.
It seems like some computer isspitting out what to do and
(01:50):
they're not so what do you thinkof all that?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
yeah, you know, um, this started in 2005, uh, with
the analytics for the yankeesafter they lost in 2004.
George acquiesced and figuredthat they needed to switch or at
least head down the road ofanalytics and get away from what
(02:14):
they were traditionally doing,which is using the eyeball test
and spending money and gettingplayers in and shipping off the
ones that can't play.
And in the last 10 years you'veseen the culmination of that
with Michael Fishman headingthat department who is, I
believe, assistant generalmanager as well.
He's got 20 people working forhim and the product on the field
(02:39):
.
It's not what we're used toseeing as Yankee fans and it
dictates who plays, when theyplay, how much they play.
And also, you know, the Yankeesalmost lost Aaron Judge because
of analytics.
The analytics department, youknow, has their threshold for
money and I guess you know, withthe structure of the fake
(03:04):
salary cap in baseball, theluxury tax actually that they
have money that they allow forcertain time for players, for
length of contract and all thatstuff.
Their number was less than whatJudge got paid and Cashman
stood firm on that.
And it was Hal who came in atthe last minute and made the
(03:27):
deal happen, otherwise Judgewould be playing out West right
now for San Francisco mostlikely analytics then you have
to stick to it and the Yankeesdon't do that and I'm not trying
to justify it because I can'tstand it.
(03:47):
Does it have its place?
It certainly has its place.
But you could look at theYankees lineup.
It changes day in and day outthe top six guys in the lineup
leadoff hitter.
It changes every day who'shitting in the two hole.
It changes every day.
Judges you three hitter.
When he's healthy, stanton'sbatting fourth or fifth.
It fluctuates, it's up and down, who's playing what position?
(04:10):
And it's all analytics-driven,it's metrics-driven analytics
and it just doesn't pass thelitmus test for me.
Because one they don't haveenough talent to be who they are
supposed to be and analytics istelling them to go get these
guys, that these guys.
Look at the guys they justbrought in.
(04:31):
I mean analytics said, yeah,these are the guys that we need.
So they brought seven guys in.
Five of them, I think, are onthe roster, which means that you
know 20 of your roster was nogood.
You had to get rid of five guysand bring five new guys in and
you wanted to sell us on thisteam returning to the World
Series.
(04:52):
To me, that's, you know, it'segregious, it's embarrassing,
it's you know, it's unfair tothe fans that you know have
season tickets and pay all thismoney.
They expect to see a winner.
We're not, you know, to see awinner.
We're not the Miami Marlins,we're not the Arizona
Diamondbacks, we're notCleveland.
This is New York.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
So it starts if you take a step back.
And this is going to be anissue next year because I
believe the Major LeagueBaseball contract is up in 26.
And there's a lot of talk thatMajor League Baseball is the
only team out of the big threelet's put hockey aside for now
that does not have a hard salarycap.
(05:34):
For instance, the New York Metsare spending $323 million where
the Miami Marlins are playing$67 million.
So I mean, and there's aridiculous disparity in Major
(06:01):
League teams, major LeagueBaseball teams.
Yeah, and excuse me, in majorleague teams, major league
baseball teams.
Yeah, and it's partiallybecause of this tax system.
And what's even weirder is thatthere's a tax system so people
that are spending more over thelimit whatever that limit is for
(06:23):
this year are paying a tax, andthat tax is paid to the league,
and then the league channelsthat money to weaker teams, to
weaker market teams.
Obviously, the televisioncontracts in New York City are
(06:44):
different than the televisioncontracts in St Louis, right,
correct?
So the money is made.
It's not like the NFL, whereall monies are pooled.
Yeah, there's no revenuesharing.
There's no revenue sharing inMajor League Baseball.
So there's this tax system andthe money's going to the lesser
teams and the intention was forthose teams to spend it on
(07:05):
payroll baseball.
So so there's this tax systemand the money's going to the
lesser teams, and there's theintention was for those teams to
spend it on payroll and, inessence, a lot of teams are
putting that money right intheir pocket.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
That's a profit that shouldn't be allowed.
Also, they're spending money tomake it look like they're
spending money.
Like you know, oakland signingSeverino to a huge contract who
nobody else even wanted the guy.
So you have a clear faultysystem that has to be changed.
It has to be addressed.
You also have, in the middle ofall this, they're still looking
(07:38):
to expand and looking at theproduct on the field you already
have guys that can't play thissport.
You know it's one thing when youhave a team, that's a small
market and they have to bring uptheir young guys and they're
trying to, you know, developtalent so that they can compete,
but other teams not having theability to fill out their roster
.
They're talking about expandingthe roster so they can have
(08:01):
more arms in the bullpen.
And you know it's all aboutmaking more money and you know
that's a whole different avenueto go down.
But right now baseball on thewhole is a terrible product
because of the way it'sstructured.
And you've also got veteranplayers that can't get paid or
that don't last.
Look at someone like AnthonyRizzo.
You know he's only 33 or 34years old.
(08:23):
He's not an old ballplayer.
All right, maybe he's past hisprime, but let's not forget he
got hurt.
He came back from the injury.
The Yankees, you know theycompletely mishandled that, but
someone like that should stillbe playing baseball.
I can't imagine that he'sunhealthy to the point where he
can't play baseball better thansome of the options you see out
(08:43):
there right now, and that'sacross the league.
So they have to do somethingabout it because if they're
going to expand, the product hasto get better.
It's already watered down, inmy opinion.
You know when you see, or youknow when you do the math, you
figure there's only a fewhundred guys on the whole planet
that can play that sport atthat level at any given moment
(09:06):
and they're below that that lineright now with the level of
talent some of these guys areputting out on the field true,
true, and that's going on in alot of places in baseball and um
, this idea, and maybe we shouldbring, bring more players in
(09:26):
from the dominican republic,from south america, from other
places, because those would begreat, and also in japan you
raised a good point because youknow I was just in the dominican
last month and they have about20 or 22 facilities there.
Major league baseball hasfacilities there, major League
Baseball has facilities there.
They're clearly trying tocultivate a pipeline, I guess,
(09:51):
of talent.
I think you're also dealingwith things like specialization
at the lower level here in theUnited States, at the lower
level here in the United States.
So when you have a littleleague and you know your town
has 100 players or so manyplayers, you have a few little
league teams.
Maybe you have to playcrosstown, depending on how your
(10:14):
municipality is set up.
Whatever, a lot of kids are notplaying baseball that were
playing baseball 20 and 25 yearsago and you know, I think it
was CeCe Sabathia that mentioned, you know, someone like him
wouldn't have the opportunity toplay today that he had all
(10:35):
those years ago because you knowthe specialization has taken
kids out of the programs thatwere there and moved them into.
You know, let's face it, yougot to have money to play travel
sports, right.
They create these leagues forwhatever reason.
You know, one guy wants his kidto get more playing time or
they just want to win games andfeel like they're somebody, but
(10:59):
it's taken away from people thatdon't have access to the sport
anymore and you know kids thatused to be able to play baseball
in the cities.
Baseball is dying on that leveland that's why Major League
Baseball is moving out andbranching out and looking for
other places to get athletesfrom.
And at the college level, mostof the kids that get
scholarships and move up fromhigh school to college have
(11:22):
played in these travel leaguesand you know, uh um, specialized
leagues where you know they getthe best players from the three
or four surrounding towns andthey make a super team and they
travel to play teams from othertowns and other counties and
other States and a lot of talentis being.
You know, just it's not gettingthe opportunity to play.
(11:44):
So you have a disparity nowwhere kids that are not
necessarily talented have beenthrough the program and paid
their dues but they're notreally good ballplayers.
They're just not, and it shows.
You could see it on the fieldtoday.
You could.
Somebody like Anthony Volpe, whoI still can't believe won a
(12:05):
gold glove.
He's beyond struggling.
He's hitting below 218 or 214,whatever he was at.
You know he had this little runwhere maybe they let a fire
under his ass and he hit likefive home runs in a week or
whatever 10 days, but he'sclearly not built to play this
sport at this level for a longperiod of time, whereas years
(12:26):
ago maybe he catches on as autility infielder, he's a bench
player, he's a role player and Iknow he won a gold glove, but
the guy can't hit worth a lick.
And we went from all theseforeign-born players just 25, 20
years ago and you saw all theseshortstops coming through that
were Nomar Garcia-Para and guyslike Riyo Ordonez A-Rod, I mean
(12:51):
Omar Vizquel.
The list goes on.
You're not seeing that anymore.
So, you know, I think it's acombination of Major League
Baseball trying to save money atcertain areas, but also they're
funneling these players throughbecause you know they don't
want to pay these high salaries.
They want to make more money.
They have shareholders.
Now you know the Yankees areessentially a portfolio that
(13:15):
they have to answer to theirshareholders.
So where the Yankees werespending money in the late 90s
and early 2000s, you know theywere paying guys like Tim rain,
cecil fielder, daryl strawberrythey went out and got canseco
for that last run in 2000, whichthey didn't need him.
But you know they had guyscoming off the bench that were
veteran players making money.
They don't have that anymoreand it's.
(13:36):
You're not going to see thatacross.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
They had that older player talent I mean, whether it
was Daryl strawberry, was, itwas um and not just not just
hitters, you also had pitchers.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Yeah, they could go out and get arms and bring guys
in.
They brought in, you know,veteran arms for their bullpen,
for their playoff runs, thatother teams, you know they
scrambled to find arms and yeah,that kind of created analytics
because teams like Oakland hadto go find a way to compete and
they did a good job.
But with everybody on analyticsnow it's kind of watered
(14:14):
everything down and the Yankeesthat have the money to spend,
regardless of whether they wantto go over that threshold or not
, they're not spending the moneythe way they used to.
I think that also tells youthat they don't believe in their
(14:46):
own product, because you know,we did see them go out and get
Rizzo and Gallo just a few yearsago and I think that they
thought that they were on a run.
I think that's their model nowto see where they are and then
maybe they'll make a splash inthe free agent or at the trade
deadline.
But I just think year in andyear out you're not going to see
them.
I mean, judge has been on thefield for 10 years now.
You know he's played.
(15:07):
Yeah, he's played nine seasonsthe first year when he came up
in September, if you don't wantto count that.
But he's been a Yankee for 10years and they've only really
made one big effort to go outand put a team on the field and
surround him with the talentthat he needs to take the next
step.
And you know I'll probably takecriticism for that.
(15:29):
That's fine.
This is not the same Yankeesthat they were even 15 years ago
.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
That's true, but you know.
So some of those things have todo with the changes in the game
, right?
Oh yeah, changes in the game.
Pitchers are trying to throwover 100 miles an hour.
Everybody has multiple TommyJohn surgeries.
(15:56):
It's a different thing.
And when you think about it,there are guys back in the day
Bob Feller is one we've probablytalked about before Warren
Spahn.
Those guys, they pitch completegames almost every time and
they threw 100 miles an hour.
(16:17):
And they threw fast.
They tell you they didn't throwas hard.
The radar guns were different.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
It was different.
It's explained in the movie ordocumentary, fastball.
If you do the math, those guyswere definitely throwing as hard
as guys can throw today.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
I mean, it's hard to believe that people throw harder
now than before becausebaseball was such a science.
You lived, eat and breathedbaseball back then you traveled,
traveled teams back then right.
you were traveled on trains, notairplanes.
You didn't fly first class, themoney wasn't as good.
(16:54):
Maybe it was a little bitbetter than certainly playing
football at the time.
But in that bob feller year Ialways say bob feller because
one I met him a couple of timesand he had so many wins he used
to laugh at what Prima Donna'spitchers were, and when he was
(17:14):
alive the pitchers were less ofa Prima Donna's than they are
now and they pitched on threedays rest.
They pitched on three days rest,complete games.
They're actually three daysrest.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Complete games.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Vastly different approach these days, and I'll
give you that certainly in theirera the pitching mound was six
inches higher right.
It was reduced in whatever, in66, 67?
In the 60s, for I meanbasically for the dominance of
(17:49):
what is this.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
They wanted to create more offense.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Yeah, and you know.
That went on and on and on.
And now I think the ball,though it may be being thrown
harder, it has less motion thanever before.
People are more concerned withthrowing the ball and the ball
is totally different, matter offact.
(18:14):
It's different all the time.
Certainly every year it'sdifferent.
Whether it's different duringthe season is a whole other
story.
I have no idea, but I hearthose stories, stories, as
everyone does.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Yeah, I mean it's it's.
It's probably harder if youcompare the two, but you know
it's still.
The hardest thing to do insports is hit a fastball.
You know, regardless of those,that six inch difference.
But you know it's sospecialized today and you just
don't see the grit and toughnessin guys battling For me.
(18:48):
Call me a purist or atraditionalist, but I want to
see a guy that can go nineinnings.
Those were the most excitinggames back in the day.
I mean, jack Morris pitched 10innings in a World Series game.
If I remember that was gameseven, and what could be more
exciting than that?
Can this guy finish?
Can he get there?
Can he drag this team acrossthe finish line?
I want to see that.
(19:08):
You know now you pay somebody36 million dollars a year and
the guy can't go past the sixthinning at that point why even
pay to have a starter?
Just put 15 guys in the bullpenthat can throw hard and just
see what happens.
Let them pitch three inningsapiece.
You can pay.
Pay him $4 million a year, thatdoesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Yeah, I don't really have an understanding of where
pitching's going.
I mean you get high school andcollege kids that are having
Tommy John surgery.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Yeah, I mean that's.
I think that happens becausethey have some talent.
I mean, there's probably anumber of factors, right, some
of them have parents that thinkthat they're going to be the
next Nolan Ryan or Tommy John, Iguess, and they, you know, they
want the kid to have thesurgery.
Go ahead, throw your arm out,we'll get surgery.
You'll come back even stronger.
(20:03):
To me that's an abuse.
The athletes that I played withgrowing up the really good ones
.
They played multiple sports.
They played football,basketball, baseball.
They ran track, they couldthrow.
They could't having Tommy Johnsurgery.
(20:23):
They weren't, you know.
They played through injury,even in high school you know now
, and I understand that that's.
you know there's a differentbook on that.
Now to the betterment or forthe for the health of the kids,
like that I get.
I don't expect kids to bewalking around with, you know,
concussion If they're banged up.
They're banged up.
They got to get them off thefield, but some, you know, it
(20:44):
feels like they would.
There was a toughness then.
That doesn't exist now.
And if you just have raw talent, you don't have to be tough.
You can just be talented andnot have to play by the rules as
everybody else and because theydon't put the work in or the
time, or they don't have thattoughness.
You know it's the same thing.
Everybody on that level hastalent.
(21:04):
So what are you going to do tomake yourself better than the
next guy?
Stand out so you can get thatcontract?
And now it just seems likethere's too many fallback
crutches for players at thatlevel and there seems to be a
matter of factness about it thatdidn't exist before.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Right.
So you wonder?
I mean there's certainly moretraveling teams and extra teams
than there were when I was a kid.
There may have been onetraveling team, but I think you
had to be older to be on it.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
You know, when I was in grammar school a travel team
for every age group and middleschool.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
I played baseball, high school, whatever you want
to say.
I mean, I played baseball andfootball and I wasn't good.
Well, I was good at baseballbut I wasn't good at football at
all.
I couldn't even remember theplace, considering I have a
photographic memory.
Um, it's pretty interesting,you know, and I was an offensive
tackle which was pretty covetedat the time, but the you know,
(22:06):
it just seems that everythingall at once plan is really just
not working.
And I, and I think that whenwe're talking about back to
analytics, when we're talkingabout analytics, I mean, listen,
we've all seen money ball,we've all seen how he made a
team, or read the book, how hemade a team out of nothing and
(22:29):
how that is.
But realize, at that time noneof the other teams were using
analytics, nobody else was doingit, they invented it.
They invented it Well, I think,mit guys.
It was already there.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
They took a page out of the fantasy baseball page and
applied it to real-lifebaseball and it did work to an
extent.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
It did, but it doesn't work on short, on
playoff and I think.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
They also had three young talented arms in their
rotation that they hadn't yetpaid.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
So Hudson, mulder and zito all went somewhere else
that's correct, and they're allreally good.
I mean any team would take, anyteam would take either one of
them, right, it did absolutelyit did absolutely so.
Uh, I, I, I just looked brieflyat something you told me about
and I I wasn't aware is not tomove to another topic, but teams
(23:32):
moving into cryptocurrency, andit seems to be on multiple
levels.
People can fans can buy thingswith cryptocurrency.
People are paying playerssomewhat with cryptocurrency.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Some teams- yeah, some players have requested part
of their salaries be paid incrypto.
You know Aaron Rodgers, odellBeckham had it done.
I know Brady was involved withFTX and there was a scandal
there because there was what wasthat guy's name?
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yeah, I forget his name.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
We all know.
We all know what you mean.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
The crazy hair.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
And I think the first guy to do it was Russell
Russell O'Connor.
He, he, he had part of hissalary paid in Bitcoin.
He probably made out on thatdeal because back then Bitcoin
was still, I think, in the teens, so that guy's super loaded now
.
But the Dolphins, I know, Ithink, were the first ones to
(24:40):
allow their fans to buymerchandise with crypto, and
they, I think, did that 2019 or2020.
I'm kind of shocked, though,because some of these owners are
the same players that you wouldexpect to hear their names
among when you talk about thingslike BlackRock or entities like
(25:03):
BlackRock, when you talk aboutthings like BlackRock or
entities like BlackRock andthese giant corporations that
move tremendous amounts of moneythrough Bitcoin and through the
crypto market, and it's kind ofand I know that, I think it's
is it Topps, one of thecompanies is producing, you know
(25:25):
, forgot what they're called,not ETFs, but you know NFTs.
Yeah, they create NFTs with theplayer's likeness or their
signature and you can buy it,just like trading.
I it's cool, I mean, I, I, II've seen some of it, I've
actually bought some things butit's kind of it's harder to wrap
(25:48):
my head around that than it isaround cryptocurrency, because,
again, you're buying somethingthat's not tangible, you can't
really hold it, you can't see it, you can't display it anywhere.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
I'm pretty good at this stuff and I don't
understand it at all.
I mean, I really don'tunderstand it at all.
I mean, you have a digitalthing.
You can't hang it on your wall.
I don't mean to sound stupid,but you have this digital
picture and who was in it?
Tom Brady was into it.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Yeah, I think he did his autograph and had signed
virtual signatures on certainpieces of art and pictures and
whatnot, which, again, I thinkit's a cool thing.
I think it opens the outreach.
That's why I'm a little shockedthat the NFL hasn't used that
(26:36):
as a means of creating morerevenue, because they want to
expand too.
They want to expand too.
So maybe instead of expandingteams and playing more games,
this is a way for them to go,because each team could have
their own app.
(26:56):
You know, the NFL could haveits own app for these NFTs and
you could probably create andtrade these things the same way
they do all these other ones,create and trade these things
the same way they do all theseother other ones.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
So I have to tell you we keep losing you, so I can't
hear you right now, can you?
Speaker 2 (27:26):
hear me.
Other people are doing it andother NFTs have sold for
millions of dollars.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Right.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
So I think they could probably generate some interest
there.
Maybe it starts with justseason ticket holders.
You know you have the option tobuy into this thing and you
know what a great way to start,because then you're
automatically excluding peoplethat might want to get their
hands on it and you create themarket.
So I don't know.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
So just to let you know, your audio seems to drop
out every once in a while.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
You know what my phone was ringing, so I'll just
have to sorry about that Allright.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
So, yeah, that's a great point.
About NFTs, I don't really getit.
I don't really see it goinganywhere.
But we all know, as the NFL isgoing to keep expanding, and
expanding, and expanding and youkeep saying when it's going to
stop.
But I have to be honest withyou.
I thought it was going to stopsome time ago and it's never
(28:37):
stopped no, no, they too, haveruined the product.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
You know the the products that the product on the
field suffers, and they're.
You know they're going tocreate even more rules to make
the game safer, but it's allabout, you know, making the
product more watchable or moreattractive to tertiary markets
and expanding overseas.
And I, you know, I think we'regoing to get to the point where
(29:02):
we're watching two hand touch.
You know that it just seemslike it's headed that way.
In fact, a former NFL coachtold me that he expected it to
go that way.
So that's a little scary.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Yeah, well, I mean now the most recent transaction,
which was very interesting, isthat the NFL has reached a deal
with espn right where they soldthe rights to the nfl channel,
uh, red zone.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
And I want to say one other thing that I can't think
of but to espn for 10 of espn'sbusiness yeah, that partnership
is is kind of scary um, becauseI think it's really all about
the streaming um and they'regonna expand the market, which
(29:59):
it's gonna shut some people out.
It's gonna turn some people off.
You know to me why wouldn't youwant your product out there?
You know you have the revenuesharing in nfl, so it's going to
turn some people off.
To me, why wouldn't you wantyour product out there?
You have the revenue sharing inthe NFL, so it's there for your
taking.
But it could mean that ratingswere so low or heading in the
wrong direction that they had todo something to step up the
(30:21):
watchability.
It sure is To partner with ESPN, because they were very
standoffish with one another fora while and there seemed to be,
you know, like a you know,contest between the two entities
of who did it better.
(30:42):
But the NFL did need to sell itsproduct and espn got in there
and you know, listen they espndoes a good job.
They've got a lot of talkingheads.
Every show talks about the nfl.
The nfl is so popular that justtalking about it is relevant
and people want to absorb asmuch content as they can about
the nfl, especially when itcomes to their own team.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
So it's funny that, when, um, that it would seem to
be that the Sunday ticket isgoing to be on ESPN, right,
that's what's coming our way isthat everything?
Everything's going to be ESPNAlso?
What I find interesting is that, you know, apple tried to buy
(31:30):
the Sunday ticket before theysold it to YouTube, and part of
the reason they walked away fromthe deal is because Apple from
my understanding and I could bewrong, but Apple, I wouldn't say
implied, but at least wouldn'tguarantee that they wouldn't
offer the Sunday ticket for free.
(31:52):
You signed on to their serviceand you got the Sunday ticket
and the NFL said whoa, you gotto charge for this, yeah.
And Apple said well, we'regoing to pay you.
It's not that you're notgetting paid, but we have more
money than you believe it or not.
We have billions in suitcasesover there.
(32:13):
We have the greatest cashreserve in the world for any
company.
We're going to pay you.
We're not doing that, butyou're not going to tell us how
we're going to charge ourcustomers, if at all.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Yeah they were subscribing to Apple streaming
to get that.
If you're going to havesomebody broadcast your product,
you want to know what that'sgoing to look like and how
people are going to be able toaccess it, because you want your
product to grow.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Right.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
That's why this switch.
Now we're in the streaming eraand right now I don't think it's
a very good product.
Could it be a better product?
Sure.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
I think if Apple would have bought it and put it
out there for just an additionalthing on their Apple product,
they would have made more moneythan ever.
The NFL.
Oh, yeah, can you believe it,because their audience would
have went from this the peoplethat are going to pay for it to
(33:19):
this, the people that are gonnanot have to pay that exorbitant
amount of money.
They're gonna become fans,they're gonna buy tickets,
they're gonna buy jerseys,they're gonna buy hats, they're
gonna have it on tap on theirphones.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
I mean so you know?
I don't know the numbers, but Iknow apple has baseball,
because once a week you can'twatch the yankees if you don't
have apple tv.
And I refuse to acquiesce,especially since the yankees
suck and I'm not going to watchthat but I'm not going to pay to
watch it.
Um, but I have seen it.
I watched somebody the othernight showed me on their phone.
(33:52):
Apple has you know thebroadcast, but also you have the
option to listen to the Yankeebroadcast.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Right.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Which is great.
I've always said that thereshould be a way to you know.
You know how you have the SAPbutton on the microphone if you
want to listen to anotherlanguage.
Why can't they do that withbaseball games and the broadcast
?
I don't want to listen to JoeBuck.
I want to hear John Sterling.
I don't want to listen to TroyAikman.
I want to hear the Giants radioannouncers.
(34:23):
I don't, you know.
Whatever it is, you know I'drather listen to Carl Banks than
listen to the guys that are onFox most of the time, because
you're going to get more insight.
Whatever you, troy, whateveryou want to listen to, it want
to listen to that.
It's available.
How many times as a kid did Ifind myself turning off the
broadcast and hooking up mystereo so I could listen to the
(34:44):
broadcast on the radio and stillwatch the game?
Speaker 1 (34:47):
I used to do that for the New York Rangers all the
time when I watched the hockeygames.
The radio broadcasters I don'tremember who they were, it was
so long ago.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
They were so much better than the television
broadcasters yeah, I think theyhave the ability to make that
happen and apple figured it out,so that's.
That might be something that isa draw, um, but you're, I think
you're make.
They're making the marketsmaller, but the revenue may go
(35:15):
up because people have the moneyto spend on it.
I'm not going to spend themoney on it.
I get it.
I get enough channels to watchas it is.
I'm going to pay for more.
You know it's gotta.
It's gotta come back to reality.
You know you used to be able tocome home and turn the game on.
I want to come home and turnthe game on without having to
worry about you know I had towatch.
You know the bar.
I have to hook up Amazon so wecan watch when the Yankees are
(35:37):
on Wednesday nights.
We don't have Apple at the barand you go on and you have to
click.
You know six or seven things tofind the broadcast and to turn
it on.
Do you want this?
Yes.
Do you want that?
Yes.
Do you want to watch theYankees?
Yes.
Do you want to watch the livebroadcast now?
Yes, is this what you want?
Like, just I want to turn thegame on.
I just want to flip to achannel turn the game on.
(35:57):
That part of it is a littleannoying, but I think over time
that'll probably get better.
I just don't like that.
They've headed down this roadand have essentially left out,
you know, a whole generation offans that are used to one way
and expect them to justacquiesce or they're willing to
lose that part of the fan baseto reach more people.
(36:20):
There's something about it thatjust doesn't sit right with me.
Maybe it's because I don'tunderstand it, but I know at the
bottom line it's always money.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Yeah, I don't know, sooner or later the NFL has to
come back to reality a littlebit.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
I think they will, because they have to look at
what the Marist did, offeringthe revenue sharing all those
years ago.
That's driven them all theseyears.
That's what made this sport sowatchable and entertaining.
And the gambling we haven'teven talked about that.
You're probably going to seepartnerships now.
(37:01):
Once this goes through.
If it works, you're going tohave Apple TV, whoever's
streaming the game.
You could do your betting righton the side, right there.
They're already giving youApple gives you odds.
I don't know if they do it forfootball, but I know the other
night when I was watching on myfriend's phone.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
UFC too.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
It says each pitch, it tells you the player's home
run probability.
So there's, there's, and again,that's analytics right.
So it's, it is going to be,you're going to, you're going to
have the ability to have thisinformation on tap, which is
going to drive the gambling evenmore.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Yeah, well, gambling is an interesting part of it.
I mean, it always exists, butnot to the extent that it is now
.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
It's on tap, it's on your fingertips.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
And you have major owners, especially in the NFL
right that own whatever it'sDraftKings or FanDuel you have.
Jerry Jones and Kraft, who areboth deeply invested into these
(38:19):
gambling.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
I can't believe that we're living in that era.
It's like coming and watchingthe movie Last Boy Scout in real
time.
You know ratings dropped.
They needed something for fans,so they legalized gambling and
you know everybody's makingmoney, which I understand.
Making money, oh, it's good forthe economy.
But there's a certain ethics tothis that before existed.
(38:41):
It just doesn't exist anymore.
There were certain things thatyou just didn't do.
You didn't question it, youdidn't push it.
You know, it was justunderstood.
This is not how we live in thiscountry.
This is not how we do thingshere.
It's an ethics thing and wehave lost that completely.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Absolutely.
I mean the, and I think wemight have mentioned it last
time.
I remember the day when MickeyMantle and Willie Mays I forget
who the third was they gotsuspended for being either a
greeter at the from Major LeagueBaseball after they retired.
Mind you, they're not evenactive players.
Yeah, they get suspended fromMajor League Baseball after they
retired.
Mind you, they're not evenactive players.
They get suspended from MajorLeague Baseball because there
(39:22):
were other greeters at ourcasino or were playing golf with
us.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
I think it might have been.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
Duke Snyder, it may have been the third.
That was my thought, but Iwasn't sure.
And you know three of thegreatest players of all time no
longer in the game.
Maybe they go to springtraining every year.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
They don't talk about that story.
Nobody really knows that story,but yeah, they.
I mean you're talking about.
You know base baseball thenstill had integrity for what
it's worth.
You know, uh, I know you knowpeople can bring up stories
about players off the field, buton the it was.
You don't do this.
This is not acceptable.
You know it was.
(39:59):
You know.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
The commissioner of baseball is the worst and I
apologize if he ever hears me,but I think he's the worst.
I don't think he has anyintegrity into the game.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
He completely mishandled Pete Rose and they
did nothing to really promoteShoeless Joe Jackson in the wake
of that or before that.
You know, it was just clearly,and not that Pete deserved any
sort of break I don't think hedid.
But this commissioner and thelast commissioner and you know
(40:31):
the media is culpable too.
Right, you know we went throughthe steroid era and they're
keeping these guys out of theHall of Fame.
We went through the steroid eraand they're keeping these guys
out of the Hall of Fame, andwhat they've done is they've
created this kind of a vacuumwhere.
Look at who's getting into theHall of Fame.
Ichiro deserves it, clearly oneof the best players ever and
CeCe before this era.
(40:52):
You could make the argument hedid or didn't deserve it.
But there are guys getting intothe Hall of Fame now that are
not Hall of Famers, and a lot ofit has to do with the fact that
they're keeping a wholegeneration of players out of the
league because of steroids.
But they knew it was going on.
They put all three managersthat had the biggest steroid
(41:14):
users.
They put Joe Torre, cox and LaRussa.
Those guys were at theepicenter of the whole thing and
you put all three of them inthe Hall of Fame.
You can't tell me those guysdidn't know their players were
on steroids.
They know they benefited fromthat.
So how do you?
Where do you draw the line?
Mike Piazza gets in, but thisguy doesn't get in.
This guy gets in and that guydoesn't get in.
(41:34):
I mean, harold Baines got innot accusing him of steroids,
because if he was on steroidsit's even worse but he's not a
Hall of Famer and I'm a toughjudge and it has nothing to do
with my Red Sox bias.
But Jim Rice is a Hall of Famerand Dom always says he was the
best hitter for 10 years in theAmerican League.
Okay, well, but is he Aaron Ruthor Mays?
(41:57):
Is he Mantle DiMaggio or TedWilliams?
I just don't see that.
So you know you want to expandthe sport, you want to make more
money.
You know where do you draw theline?
There used to be a clear line,there used to be ethics and
integrity in baseball and it isgone.
Now it's completely gone andyou throw in the gambling and
(42:19):
you throw in the money from thestreaming and all these other
entities and you've got aterrible product on the field.
So in another 30 years you'regoing to see guys getting the
hall of fame.
How's that guy a hall of famer?
and the generation kids watchingnow won't know any better.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
It's being designed on the back of an envelope.
You know what I mean.
It's really fun, and the onlyguy that could do that is
Abraham Lincoln.
He wrote the Gettysburg Addresson the way in the train.
But beyond that nobody can, andit really is whim without reason
.
It's a trend and it's, theseare all, and pretty much that's
(43:05):
the theme of our show, and wherethere's all these trends, um,
that we believe are detrimentalto the, uh, the ethics of the
game, uh, the professionalism ofthe game.
I mean, I saw I wish I couldremember his name.
I saw an umpire the other nightcall a pitch right down the
(43:27):
middle.
Oh, don't get me started Rightdown the middle.
I mean down the middle, I meanthe television guys were like
huh.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Did you see?
I think it was.
Was it last night or the nightbefore the first female umpire?
had her first game behind homeplate and the first pitch it
wasn't even close, it was sixinches inside.
She called it a strike.
The announcers didn't know whatto say and then they saved the
baseball.
They took the baseball off thefield and saved it and I just it
(43:59):
was like it was.
It looks so.
They must've said no matterwhere it is, call it a strike,
we're saving the baseball, we'regoing to.
You know, we're going to put itup for auction, you're going to
sell it.
Something's going to.
I couldn't believe what I waswatching when I saw it.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
I mean, does it really matter whether it was a
ball or a strike to save thebaseball?
It doesn't.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
It certainly doesn't.
It shouldn't.
It shouldn't matter that she'sfemale either.
Can you call balls and strikes?
Because if you can't see, ya, Imean, I think they did it
because they know what's coming.
They're getting rid of umpires,right, you're going to have an
(44:38):
automated strike zone.
It should already be inexistence Today.
I saw, because I hadn't watchedany football preseason anyway I
saw what they're doing with thefirst down marker and they've
taken the guys with the chainsoff the field completely Really.
Yeah, I couldn't believe it.
I couldn't believe it Becauseyou, you got to figure those
(45:00):
guys have to be there anyway.
But instead I'm I'm assumingthere's something in the
football, maybe there's a chipin the football, but it's an
animated screen where thefootball is placed on the field
at at whatever mark, and then itshows you the distance to the
first down.
It says 9 inches, 10 inches,and that's how they're measuring
(45:21):
for first downs.
Now, I couldn't believe it.
I could not believe what Iwatched, and you know, that's a
cool thing.
I guess I don't know why theyhad to take the guys with the
chains off the field, althoughthere was some discrepancies
with the chain gangs the lastcouple years where people were
doing videos on them.
(45:42):
You know moving the yardmarkers and not being in the
right position, so maybe thegambling has something to do
with it.
To make it more precise, rightbut I was shocked when I saw
that.
But the more I I you, I saw itlike three times and it made me
realize if you're going to dothat, for you know it's.
It's no different than ballsand strikes, and they can.
(46:04):
They have the technology to dothis, so why not utilize it?
You could still have an umpirebehind home plate for calls at
the plate.
You can still have an umpirebehind home plate to.
You know the pitcher balked,the.
You know whatever it is, thepitcher balked, whatever it is,
he's got to call all the otherstuff.
They don't have to call ballsand strikes.
It's funny to listen to peopleargue about how baseball didn't
(46:26):
include XYZ back in the 30s and40s and the players today are so
much better.
But then when you say I want anautomated strike zone, they
lose their minds.
To me, if all this technologywas available when Abner
Doubleday invented baseball,we'd be using it.
Instant replay, whether the guytouched the base or not, balls
and strikes, everything, and Idon't think there's anything
(46:48):
wrong with that.
You want to get the call right.
Speaker 1 (46:50):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
So you know, look at Works in tennis.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Works in tennis.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
Yeah, so why not use it for baseball?
They're so far behind and itjust makes you wonder that they
don't want to spend the money onthese things.
They haven't figured out how tomonetize it, so they're not
going to make it available,which is just.
It's so silly.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
Maybe they don't know how to control it.
Speaker 2 (47:18):
Yeah, I mean I wonder sometimes, because when you
watch it on TV you see the frameright, you just see the frame
outline of the strike zone andhome plate has depth.
Right Home plate is 18 inchesacross and I think it's 18
inches deep, or maybe it's 22inches, I can't remember the
dimensions and then you havewhere that volume of space fits,
(47:42):
according to where the batteris standing in the batter's box
as well as the size of theplayer.
But it seems to me that they'vegot that narrow depth, that
they've got the size of thestrike zone pretty much intact.
So if they have it, then whynot use it?
Just eliminate all this.
(48:03):
You know other stuff and takethe error out of it.
You know I don't expect umpiresto be perfect, but some of these
guys miss calls that are just Imean, you can't miss calls
right down the plate, you can'tmiss that.
You know.
Maybe all right, the catcherwas setting up outside, which
you don't really see that a lotanymore.
The catcher set up outside.
(48:24):
The umpire is behind thecatcher and the ball was to the
left and even though it was overthe plate maybe it looked
outside to the umpire.
To me it's inexcusable.
You can't miss, you can't miss,can't miss and it takes.
You know the catcher framingthe pitch, he brings it up, he
brings it down.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
You just take all that away and if you question
him, he throws you out and ifyou right, you can't, you can't,
no, no, no questioning ballsand strikes.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
Well, wait a minute.
If you're gonna make that rule,then use the automated strike
zone.
Then we won't question anything, we'll just all agree to it and
then that's it all right.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
Well, I think we covered a lot of ills of the
world and many different sportsthat we're talking about now.
Speaker 2 (49:05):
Um, I know you wanted to get back to jerry yeah, well
, we'll do that.
Speaker 1 (49:09):
I think we'll save that for another night.
I mean, more is going to happen, uh, and he's talking about
jerry jones and football, but onour next show, which is two
weeks from now, the third weekin August, you'll see that, you
know this might have been tradedby then yeah, maybe alright,
everybody.
Speaker 2 (49:30):
Justin, thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (49:32):
We'll be back.
I'll play our theme song on theway out and thank you very much
and.
I'll see you soon.
Alright, see you soon.
Well, there we go.
Hello everyone.
I hope you saw that music and Ihope we're live.
This is Steve and Justice,again with Sport Talk.
I hope some of you and I knowsome of you have, whether it's
on the regular podcast, a betterlife.
Uh, new york, uh, sports talk,or you've heard it or saw it on
(00:34):
youtube.
I know we've had some followers, even though, once again, I
haven't been able to uhadvertise it ahead of time.
I don't know why.
I just hit the wrong buttonsand I was busy today so I
couldn't do it.
Justin, how are you?
I'm good.
Thanks for having me, steve.
So we got great response fromour last one and I know with
(00:57):
vacations, I'm away, he's away,kind of things.
We haven't been doing it, butwe're looking to do it every
other Monday at 6 o'clock for ahalf hour 45 minutes during the
football season.
Maybe we'll do it a little more, but we'll try to get it up on
Facebook and other places so itcan be advertised and seen.
I don't know what topics youwant to start on tonight, but I
(01:27):
know what has been somethingwe've talked about and it's been
in my craw is this unbelievableabuse.
I won't even say use.
I'm going to change it to abuseof analytics with the New York
Yankees?
It seems like a joke.
I'm disgusted.
It seems like some computer isspitting out what to do and
(01:50):
they're not so what do you thinkof all that?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
yeah, you know, um, this started in 2005, uh, with
the analytics for the yankeesafter they lost in 2004.
George acquiesced and figuredthat they needed to switch or at
least head down the road ofanalytics and get away from what
(02:14):
they were traditionally doing,which is using the eyeball test
and spending money and gettingplayers in and shipping off the
ones that can't play.
And in the last 10 years you'veseen the culmination of that
with Michael Fishman headingthat department who is, I
believe, assistant generalmanager as well.
He's got 20 people working forhim and the product on the field
(02:39):
.
It's not what we're used toseeing as Yankee fans and it
dictates who plays, when theyplay, how much they play.
And also, you know, the Yankeesalmost lost Aaron Judge because
of analytics.
The analytics department, youknow, has their threshold for
money and I guess you know, withthe structure of the fake
(03:04):
salary cap in baseball, theluxury tax actually that they
have money that they allow forcertain time for players, for
length of contract and all thatstuff.
Their number was less than whatJudge got paid and Cashman
stood firm on that.
And it was Hal who came in atthe last minute and made the
(03:27):
deal happen, otherwise Judgewould be playing out West right
now for San Francisco mostlikely analytics then you have
to stick to it and the Yankeesdon't do that and I'm not trying
to justify it because I can'tstand it.
(03:47):
Does it have its place?
It certainly has its place.
But you could look at theYankees lineup.
It changes day in and day outthe top six guys in the lineup
leadoff hitter.
It changes every day who'shitting in the two hole.
It changes every day.
Judges you three hitter.
When he's healthy, stanton'sbatting fourth or fifth.
It fluctuates, it's up and down, who's playing what position?
(04:10):
And it's all analytics-driven,it's metrics-driven analytics
and it just doesn't pass thelitmus test for me.
Because one they don't haveenough talent to be who they are
supposed to be and analytics istelling them to go get these
guys, that these guys.
Look at the guys they justbrought in.
(04:31):
I mean analytics said, yeah,these are the guys that we need.
So they brought seven guys in.
Five of them, I think, are onthe roster, which means that you
know 20 of your roster was nogood.
You had to get rid of five guysand bring five new guys in and
you wanted to sell us on thisteam returning to the World
Series.
(04:52):
To me, that's, you know, it'segregious, it's embarrassing,
it's you know, it's unfair tothe fans that you know have
season tickets and pay all thismoney.
They expect to see a winner.
We're not, you know, to see awinner.
We're not the Miami Marlins,we're not the Arizona
Diamondbacks, we're notCleveland.
This is New York.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
So it starts if you take a step back.
And this is going to be anissue next year because I
believe the Major LeagueBaseball contract is up in 26.
And there's a lot of talk thatMajor League Baseball is the
only team out of the big threelet's put hockey aside for now
that does not have a hard salarycap.
(05:34):
For instance, the New York Metsare spending $323 million where
the Miami Marlins are playing$67 million.
So I mean, and there's aridiculous disparity in Major
(06:01):
League teams, major LeagueBaseball teams.
Yeah, and excuse me, in majorleague teams, major league
baseball teams.
Yeah, and it's partiallybecause of this tax system.
And what's even weirder is thatthere's a tax system so people
that are spending more over thelimit whatever that limit is for
(06:23):
this year are paying a tax, andthat tax is paid to the league,
and then the league channelsthat money to weaker teams, to
weaker market teams.
Obviously, the televisioncontracts in New York City are
(06:44):
different than the televisioncontracts in St Louis, right,
correct?
So the money is made.
It's not like the NFL, whereall monies are pooled.
Yeah, there's no revenuesharing.
There's no revenue sharing inMajor League Baseball.
So there's this tax system andthe money's going to the lesser
teams and the intention was forthose teams to spend it on
(07:05):
payroll baseball.
So so there's this tax systemand the money's going to the
lesser teams, and there's theintention was for those teams to
spend it on payroll and, inessence, a lot of teams are
putting that money right intheir pocket.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
That's a profit that shouldn't be allowed.
Also, they're spending money tomake it look like they're
spending money.
Like you know, oakland signingSeverino to a huge contract who
nobody else even wanted the guy.
So you have a clear faultysystem that has to be changed.
It has to be addressed.
You also have, in the middle ofall this, they're still looking
(07:38):
to expand and looking at theproduct on the field you already
have guys that can't play thissport.
You know it's one thing when youhave a team, that's a small
market and they have to bring uptheir young guys and they're
trying to, you know, developtalent so that they can compete,
but other teams not having theability to fill out their roster
.
They're talking about expandingthe roster so they can have
(08:01):
more arms in the bullpen.
And you know it's all aboutmaking more money and you know
that's a whole different avenueto go down.
But right now baseball on thewhole is a terrible product
because of the way it'sstructured.
And you've also got veteranplayers that can't get paid or
that don't last.
Look at someone like AnthonyRizzo.
You know he's only 33 or 34years old.
(08:23):
He's not an old ballplayer.
All right, maybe he's past hisprime, but let's not forget he
got hurt.
He came back from the injury.
The Yankees, you know theycompletely mishandled that, but
someone like that should stillbe playing baseball.
I can't imagine that he'sunhealthy to the point where he
can't play baseball better thansome of the options you see out
(08:43):
there right now, and that'sacross the league.
So they have to do somethingabout it because if they're
going to expand, the product hasto get better.
It's already watered down, inmy opinion.
You know when you see, or youknow when you do the math, you
figure there's only a fewhundred guys on the whole planet
that can play that sport atthat level at any given moment
(09:06):
and they're below that that lineright now with the level of
talent some of these guys areputting out on the field true,
true, and that's going on in alot of places in baseball and um
, this idea, and maybe we shouldbring, bring more players in
(09:26):
from the dominican republic,from south america, from other
places, because those would begreat, and also in japan you
raised a good point because youknow I was just in the dominican
last month and they have about20 or 22 facilities there.
Major league baseball hasfacilities there, major League
Baseball has facilities there.
They're clearly trying tocultivate a pipeline, I guess,
(09:51):
of talent.
I think you're also dealingwith things like specialization
at the lower level here in theUnited States, at the lower
level here in the United States.
So when you have a littleleague and you know your town
has 100 players or so manyplayers, you have a few little
league teams.
Maybe you have to playcrosstown, depending on how your
(10:14):
municipality is set up.
Whatever, a lot of kids are notplaying baseball that were
playing baseball 20 and 25 yearsago and you know, I think it
was CeCe Sabathia that mentioned, you know, someone like him
wouldn't have the opportunity toplay today that he had all
(10:35):
those years ago because you knowthe specialization has taken
kids out of the programs thatwere there and moved them into.
You know, let's face it, yougot to have money to play travel
sports, right.
They create these leagues forwhatever reason.
You know, one guy wants his kidto get more playing time or
they just want to win games andfeel like they're somebody, but
(10:59):
it's taken away from people thatdon't have access to the sport
anymore and you know kids thatused to be able to play baseball
in the cities.
Baseball is dying on that leveland that's why Major League
Baseball is moving out andbranching out and looking for
other places to get athletesfrom.
And at the college level, mostof the kids that get
scholarships and move up fromhigh school to college have
(11:22):
played in these travel leaguesand you know, uh um, specialized
leagues where you know they getthe best players from the three
or four surrounding towns andthey make a super team and they
travel to play teams from othertowns and other counties and
other States and a lot of talentis being.
You know, just it's not gettingthe opportunity to play.
(11:44):
So you have a disparity nowwhere kids that are not
necessarily talented have beenthrough the program and paid
their dues but they're notreally good ballplayers.
They're just not, and it shows.
You could see it on the fieldtoday.
You could.
Somebody like Anthony Volpe, whoI still can't believe won a
(12:05):
gold glove.
He's beyond struggling.
He's hitting below 218 or 214,whatever he was at.
You know he had this little runwhere maybe they let a fire
under his ass and he hit likefive home runs in a week or
whatever 10 days, but he'sclearly not built to play this
sport at this level for a longperiod of time, whereas years
(12:26):
ago maybe he catches on as autility infielder, he's a bench
player, he's a role player and Iknow he won a gold glove, but
the guy can't hit worth a lick.
And we went from all theseforeign-born players just 25, 20
years ago and you saw all theseshortstops coming through that
were Nomar Garcia-Para and guyslike Riyo Ordonez A-Rod, I mean
(12:51):
Omar Vizquel.
The list goes on.
You're not seeing that anymore.
So, you know, I think it's acombination of Major League
Baseball trying to save money atcertain areas, but also they're
funneling these players throughbecause you know they don't
want to pay these high salaries.
They want to make more money.
They have shareholders.
Now you know the Yankees areessentially a portfolio that
(13:15):
they have to answer to theirshareholders.
So where the Yankees werespending money in the late 90s
and early 2000s, you know theywere paying guys like Tim rain,
cecil fielder, daryl strawberrythey went out and got canseco
for that last run in 2000, whichthey didn't need him.
But you know they had guyscoming off the bench that were
veteran players making money.
They don't have that anymoreand it's.
(13:36):
You're not going to see thatacross.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
They had that older player talent I mean, whether it
was Daryl strawberry, was, itwas um and not just not just
hitters, you also had pitchers.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Yeah, they could go out and get arms and bring guys
in.
They brought in, you know,veteran arms for their bullpen,
for their playoff runs, thatother teams, you know they
scrambled to find arms and yeah,that kind of created analytics
because teams like Oakland hadto go find a way to compete and
they did a good job.
But with everybody on analyticsnow it's kind of watered
(14:14):
everything down and the Yankeesthat have the money to spend,
regardless of whether they wantto go over that threshold or not
, they're not spending the moneythe way they used to.
I think that also tells youthat they don't believe in their
(14:46):
own product, because you know,we did see them go out and get
Rizzo and Gallo just a few yearsago and I think that they
thought that they were on a run.
I think that's their model nowto see where they are and then
maybe they'll make a splash inthe free agent or at the trade
deadline.
But I just think year in andyear out you're not going to see
them.
I mean, judge has been on thefield for 10 years now.
You know he's played.
(15:07):
Yeah, he's played nine seasonsthe first year when he came up
in September, if you don't wantto count that.
But he's been a Yankee for 10years and they've only really
made one big effort to go outand put a team on the field and
surround him with the talentthat he needs to take the next
step.
And you know I'll probably takecriticism for that.
(15:29):
That's fine.
This is not the same Yankeesthat they were even 15 years ago
.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
That's true, but you know.
So some of those things have todo with the changes in the game
, right?
Oh yeah, changes in the game.
Pitchers are trying to throwover 100 miles an hour.
Everybody has multiple TommyJohn surgeries.
(15:56):
It's a different thing.
And when you think about it,there are guys back in the day
Bob Feller is one we've probablytalked about before Warren
Spahn.
Those guys, they pitch completegames almost every time and
they threw 100 miles an hour.
(16:17):
And they threw fast.
They tell you they didn't throwas hard.
The radar guns were different.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
It was different.
It's explained in the movie ordocumentary, fastball.
If you do the math, those guyswere definitely throwing as hard
as guys can throw today.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
I mean, it's hard to believe that people throw harder
now than before becausebaseball was such a science.
You lived, eat and breathedbaseball back then you traveled,
traveled teams back then right.
you were traveled on trains, notairplanes.
You didn't fly first class, themoney wasn't as good.
(16:54):
Maybe it was a little bitbetter than certainly playing
football at the time.
But in that bob feller year Ialways say bob feller because
one I met him a couple of timesand he had so many wins he used
to laugh at what Prima Donna'spitchers were, and when he was
(17:14):
alive the pitchers were less ofa Prima Donna's than they are
now and they pitched on threedays rest.
They pitched on three days rest,complete games.
They're actually three daysrest.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Complete games.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Vastly different approach these days, and I'll
give you that certainly in theirera the pitching mound was six
inches higher right.
It was reduced in whatever, in66, 67?
In the 60s, for I meanbasically for the dominance of
(17:49):
what is this.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
They wanted to create more offense.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Yeah, and you know.
That went on and on and on.
And now I think the ball,though it may be being thrown
harder, it has less motion thanever before.
People are more concerned withthrowing the ball and the ball
is totally different, matter offact.
(18:14):
It's different all the time.
Certainly every year it'sdifferent.
Whether it's different duringthe season is a whole other
story.
I have no idea, but I hearthose stories, stories, as
everyone does.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Yeah, I mean it's it's.
It's probably harder if youcompare the two, but you know
it's still.
The hardest thing to do insports is hit a fastball.
You know, regardless of those,that six inch difference.
But you know it's sospecialized today and you just
don't see the grit and toughnessin guys battling For me.
(18:48):
Call me a purist or atraditionalist, but I want to
see a guy that can go nineinnings.
Those were the most excitinggames back in the day.
I mean, jack Morris pitched 10innings in a World Series game.
If I remember that was gameseven, and what could be more
exciting than that?
Can this guy finish?
Can he get there?
Can he drag this team acrossthe finish line?
I want to see that.
(19:08):
You know now you pay somebody36 million dollars a year and
the guy can't go past the sixthinning at that point why even
pay to have a starter?
Just put 15 guys in the bullpenthat can throw hard and just
see what happens.
Let them pitch three inningsapiece.
You can pay.
Pay him $4 million a year, thatdoesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Yeah, I don't really have an understanding of where
pitching's going.
I mean you get high school andcollege kids that are having
Tommy John surgery.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Yeah, I mean that's.
I think that happens becausethey have some talent.
I mean, there's probably anumber of factors, right, some
of them have parents that thinkthat they're going to be the
next Nolan Ryan or Tommy John, Iguess, and they, you know, they
want the kid to have thesurgery.
Go ahead, throw your arm out,we'll get surgery.
You'll come back even stronger.
(20:03):
To me that's an abuse.
The athletes that I played withgrowing up the really good ones
.
They played multiple sports.
They played football,basketball, baseball.
They ran track, they couldthrow.
They could't having Tommy Johnsurgery.
(20:23):
They weren't, you know.
They played through injury,even in high school you know now
, and I understand that that's.
you know there's a differentbook on that.
Now to the betterment or forthe for the health of the kids,
like that I get.
I don't expect kids to bewalking around with, you know,
concussion If they're banged up.
They're banged up.
They got to get them off thefield, but some, you know, it
(20:44):
feels like they would.
There was a toughness then.
That doesn't exist now.
And if you just have raw talent, you don't have to be tough.
You can just be talented andnot have to play by the rules as
everybody else and because theydon't put the work in or the
time, or they don't have thattoughness.
You know it's the same thing.
Everybody on that level hastalent.
(21:04):
So what are you going to do tomake yourself better than the
next guy?
Stand out so you can get thatcontract?
And now it just seems likethere's too many fallback
crutches for players at thatlevel and there seems to be a
matter of factness about it thatdidn't exist before.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Right.
So you wonder?
I mean there's certainly moretraveling teams and extra teams
than there were when I was a kid.
There may have been onetraveling team, but I think you
had to be older to be on it.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
You know, when I was in grammar school a travel team
for every age group and middleschool.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
I played baseball, high school, whatever you want
to say.
I mean, I played baseball andfootball and I wasn't good.
Well, I was good at baseballbut I wasn't good at football at
all.
I couldn't even remember theplace, considering I have a
photographic memory.
Um, it's pretty interesting,you know, and I was an offensive
tackle which was pretty covetedat the time, but the you know,
(22:06):
it just seems that everythingall at once plan is really just
not working.
And I, and I think that whenwe're talking about back to
analytics, when we're talkingabout analytics, I mean, listen,
we've all seen money ball,we've all seen how he made a
team, or read the book, how hemade a team out of nothing and
(22:29):
how that is.
But realize, at that time noneof the other teams were using
analytics, nobody else was doingit, they invented it.
They invented it Well, I think,mit guys.
It was already there.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
They took a page out of the fantasy baseball page and
applied it to real-lifebaseball and it did work to an
extent.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
It did, but it doesn't work on short, on
playoff and I think.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
They also had three young talented arms in their
rotation that they hadn't yetpaid.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
So Hudson, mulder and zito all went somewhere else
that's correct, and they're allreally good.
I mean any team would take, anyteam would take either one of
them, right, it did absolutelyit did absolutely so.
Uh, I, I, I just looked brieflyat something you told me about
and I I wasn't aware is not tomove to another topic, but teams
(23:32):
moving into cryptocurrency, andit seems to be on multiple
levels.
People can fans can buy thingswith cryptocurrency.
People are paying playerssomewhat with cryptocurrency.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Some teams- yeah, some players have requested part
of their salaries be paid incrypto.
You know Aaron Rodgers, odellBeckham had it done.
I know Brady was involved withFTX and there was a scandal
there because there was what wasthat guy's name?
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yeah, I forget his name.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
We all know.
We all know what you mean.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
The crazy hair.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
And I think the first guy to do it was Russell
Russell O'Connor.
He, he, he had part of hissalary paid in Bitcoin.
He probably made out on thatdeal because back then Bitcoin
was still, I think, in the teens, so that guy's super loaded now
.
But the Dolphins, I know, Ithink, were the first ones to
(24:40):
allow their fans to buymerchandise with crypto, and
they, I think, did that 2019 or2020.
I'm kind of shocked, though,because some of these owners are
the same players that you wouldexpect to hear their names
among when you talk about thingslike BlackRock or entities like
(25:03):
BlackRock, when you talk aboutthings like BlackRock or
entities like BlackRock andthese giant corporations that
move tremendous amounts of moneythrough Bitcoin and through the
crypto market, and it's kind ofand I know that, I think it's
is it Topps, one of thecompanies is producing, you know
(25:25):
, forgot what they're called,not ETFs, but you know NFTs.
Yeah, they create NFTs with theplayer's likeness or their
signature and you can buy it,just like trading.
I it's cool, I mean, I, I, II've seen some of it, I've
actually bought some things butit's kind of it's harder to wrap
(25:48):
my head around that than it isaround cryptocurrency, because,
again, you're buying somethingthat's not tangible, you can't
really hold it, you can't see it, you can't display it anywhere.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
I'm pretty good at this stuff and I don't
understand it at all.
I mean, I really don'tunderstand it at all.
I mean, you have a digitalthing.
You can't hang it on your wall.
I don't mean to sound stupid,but you have this digital
picture and who was in it?
Tom Brady was into it.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Yeah, I think he did his autograph and had signed
virtual signatures on certainpieces of art and pictures and
whatnot, which, again, I thinkit's a cool thing.
I think it opens the outreach.
That's why I'm a little shockedthat the NFL hasn't used that
(26:36):
as a means of creating morerevenue, because they want to
expand too.
They want to expand too.
So maybe instead of expandingteams and playing more games,
this is a way for them to go,because each team could have
their own app.
(26:56):
You know, the NFL could haveits own app for these NFTs and
you could probably create andtrade these things the same way
they do all these other ones,create and trade these things
the same way they do all theseother other ones.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
So I have to tell you we keep losing you, so I can't
hear you right now, can you?
Speaker 2 (27:26):
hear me.
Other people are doing it andother NFTs have sold for
millions of dollars.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Right.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
So I think they could probably generate some interest
there.
Maybe it starts with justseason ticket holders.
You know you have the option tobuy into this thing and you
know what a great way to start,because then you're
automatically excluding peoplethat might want to get their
hands on it and you create themarket.
So I don't know.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
So just to let you know, your audio seems to drop
out every once in a while.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
You know what my phone was ringing, so I'll just
have to sorry about that Allright.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
So, yeah, that's a great point.
About NFTs, I don't really getit.
I don't really see it goinganywhere.
But we all know, as the NFL isgoing to keep expanding, and
expanding, and expanding and youkeep saying when it's going to
stop.
But I have to be honest withyou.
I thought it was going to stopsome time ago and it's never
(28:37):
stopped no, no, they too, haveruined the product.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
You know the the products that the product on the
field suffers, and they're.
You know they're going tocreate even more rules to make
the game safer, but it's allabout, you know, making the
product more watchable or moreattractive to tertiary markets
and expanding overseas.
And I, you know, I think we'regoing to get to the point where
(29:02):
we're watching two hand touch.
You know that it just seemslike it's headed that way.
In fact, a former NFL coachtold me that he expected it to
go that way.
So that's a little scary.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Yeah, well, I mean now the most recent transaction,
which was very interesting, isthat the NFL has reached a deal
with espn right where they soldthe rights to the nfl channel,
uh, red zone.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
And I want to say one other thing that I can't think
of but to espn for 10 of espn'sbusiness yeah, that partnership
is is kind of scary um, becauseI think it's really all about
the streaming um and they'regonna expand the market, which
(29:59):
it's gonna shut some people out.
It's gonna turn some people off.
You know to me why wouldn't youwant your product out there?
You know you have the revenuesharing in nfl, so it's going to
turn some people off.
To me, why wouldn't you wantyour product out there?
You have the revenue sharing inthe NFL, so it's there for your
taking.
But it could mean that ratingswere so low or heading in the
wrong direction that they had todo something to step up the
(30:21):
watchability.
It sure is To partner with ESPN, because they were very
standoffish with one another fora while and there seemed to be,
you know, like a you know,contest between the two entities
of who did it better.
(30:42):
But the NFL did need to sell itsproduct and espn got in there
and you know, listen they espndoes a good job.
They've got a lot of talkingheads.
Every show talks about the nfl.
The nfl is so popular that justtalking about it is relevant
and people want to absorb asmuch content as they can about
the nfl, especially when itcomes to their own team.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
So it's funny that, when, um, that it would seem to
be that the Sunday ticket isgoing to be on ESPN, right,
that's what's coming our way isthat everything?
Everything's going to be ESPNAlso?
What I find interesting is that, you know, apple tried to buy
(31:30):
the Sunday ticket before theysold it to YouTube, and part of
the reason they walked away fromthe deal is because Apple from
my understanding and I could bewrong, but Apple, I wouldn't say
implied, but at least wouldn'tguarantee that they wouldn't
offer the Sunday ticket for free.
(31:52):
You signed on to their serviceand you got the Sunday ticket
and the NFL said whoa, you gotto charge for this, yeah.
And Apple said well, we'regoing to pay you.
It's not that you're notgetting paid, but we have more
money than you believe it or not.
We have billions in suitcasesover there.
(32:13):
We have the greatest cashreserve in the world for any
company.
We're going to pay you.
We're not doing that, butyou're not going to tell us how
we're going to charge ourcustomers, if at all.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Yeah they were subscribing to Apple streaming
to get that.
If you're going to havesomebody broadcast your product,
you want to know what that'sgoing to look like and how
people are going to be able toaccess it, because you want your
product to grow.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Right.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
That's why this switch.
Now we're in the streaming eraand right now I don't think it's
a very good product.
Could it be a better product?
Sure.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
I think if Apple would have bought it and put it
out there for just an additionalthing on their Apple product,
they would have made more moneythan ever.
The NFL.
Oh, yeah, can you believe it,because their audience would
have went from this the peoplethat are going to pay for it to
(33:19):
this, the people that are gonnanot have to pay that exorbitant
amount of money.
They're gonna become fans,they're gonna buy tickets,
they're gonna buy jerseys,they're gonna buy hats, they're
gonna have it on tap on theirphones.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
I mean so you know?
I don't know the numbers, but Iknow apple has baseball,
because once a week you can'twatch the yankees if you don't
have apple tv.
And I refuse to acquiesce,especially since the yankees
suck and I'm not going to watchthat but I'm not going to pay to
watch it.
Um, but I have seen it.
I watched somebody the othernight showed me on their phone.
(33:52):
Apple has you know thebroadcast, but also you have the
option to listen to the Yankeebroadcast.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Right.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Which is great.
I've always said that thereshould be a way to you know.
You know how you have the SAPbutton on the microphone if you
want to listen to anotherlanguage.
Why can't they do that withbaseball games and the broadcast
?
I don't want to listen to JoeBuck.
I want to hear John Sterling.
I don't want to listen to TroyAikman.
I want to hear the Giants radioannouncers.
(34:23):
I don't, you know.
Whatever it is, you know I'drather listen to Carl Banks than
listen to the guys that are onFox most of the time, because
you're going to get more insight.
Whatever you, troy, whateveryou want to listen to, it want
to listen to that.
It's available.
How many times as a kid did Ifind myself turning off the
broadcast and hooking up mystereo so I could listen to the
(34:44):
broadcast on the radio and stillwatch the game?
Speaker 1 (34:47):
I used to do that for the New York Rangers all the
time when I watched the hockeygames.
The radio broadcasters I don'tremember who they were, it was
so long ago.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
They were so much better than the television
broadcasters yeah, I think theyhave the ability to make that
happen and apple figured it out,so that's.
That might be something that isa draw, um, but you're, I think
you're make.
They're making the marketsmaller, but the revenue may go
(35:15):
up because people have the moneyto spend on it.
I'm not going to spend themoney on it.
I get it.
I get enough channels to watchas it is.
I'm going to pay for more.
You know it's gotta.
It's gotta come back to reality.
You know you used to be able tocome home and turn the game on.
I want to come home and turnthe game on without having to
worry about you know I had towatch.
You know the bar.
I have to hook up Amazon so wecan watch when the Yankees are
(35:37):
on Wednesday nights.
We don't have Apple at the barand you go on and you have to
click.
You know six or seven things tofind the broadcast and to turn
it on.
Do you want this?
Yes.
Do you want that?
Yes.
Do you want to watch theYankees?
Yes.
Do you want to watch the livebroadcast now?
Yes, is this what you want?
Like, just I want to turn thegame on.
I just want to flip to achannel turn the game on.
(35:57):
That part of it is a littleannoying, but I think over time
that'll probably get better.
I just don't like that.
They've headed down this roadand have essentially left out,
you know, a whole generation offans that are used to one way
and expect them to justacquiesce or they're willing to
lose that part of the fan baseto reach more people.
(36:20):
There's something about it thatjust doesn't sit right with me.
Maybe it's because I don'tunderstand it, but I know at the
bottom line it's always money.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Yeah, I don't know, sooner or later the NFL has to
come back to reality a littlebit.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
I think they will, because they have to look at
what the Marist did, offeringthe revenue sharing all those
years ago.
That's driven them all theseyears.
That's what made this sport sowatchable and entertaining.
And the gambling we haven'teven talked about that.
You're probably going to seepartnerships now.
(37:01):
Once this goes through.
If it works, you're going tohave Apple TV, whoever's
streaming the game.
You could do your betting righton the side, right there.
They're already giving youApple gives you odds.
I don't know if they do it forfootball, but I know the other
night when I was watching on myfriend's phone.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
UFC too.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
It says each pitch, it tells you the player's home
run probability.
So there's, there's, and again,that's analytics right.
So it's, it is going to be,you're going to, you're going to
have the ability to have thisinformation on tap, which is
going to drive the gambling evenmore.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Yeah, well, gambling is an interesting part of it.
I mean, it always exists, butnot to the extent that it is now
.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
It's on tap, it's on your fingertips.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
And you have major owners, especially in the NFL
right that own whatever it'sDraftKings or FanDuel you have.
Jerry Jones and Kraft, who areboth deeply invested into these
(38:19):
gambling.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
I can't believe that we're living in that era.
It's like coming and watchingthe movie Last Boy Scout in real
time.
You know ratings dropped.
They needed something for fans,so they legalized gambling and
you know everybody's makingmoney, which I understand.
Making money, oh, it's good forthe economy.
But there's a certain ethics tothis that before existed.
(38:41):
It just doesn't exist anymore.
There were certain things thatyou just didn't do.
You didn't question it, youdidn't push it.
You know, it was justunderstood.
This is not how we live in thiscountry.
This is not how we do thingshere.
It's an ethics thing and wehave lost that completely.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Absolutely.
I mean the, and I think wemight have mentioned it last
time.
I remember the day when MickeyMantle and Willie Mays I forget
who the third was they gotsuspended for being either a
greeter at the from Major LeagueBaseball after they retired.
Mind you, they're not evenactive players.
Yeah, they get suspended fromMajor League Baseball after they
retired.
Mind you, they're not evenactive players.
They get suspended from MajorLeague Baseball because there
(39:22):
were other greeters at ourcasino or were playing golf with
us.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
I think it might have been.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
Duke Snyder, it may have been the third.
That was my thought, but Iwasn't sure.
And you know three of thegreatest players of all time no
longer in the game.
Maybe they go to springtraining every year.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
They don't talk about that story.
Nobody really knows that story,but yeah, they.
I mean you're talking about.
You know base baseball thenstill had integrity for what
it's worth.
You know, uh, I know you knowpeople can bring up stories
about players off the field, buton the it was.
You don't do this.
This is not acceptable.
You know it was.
(39:59):
You know.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
The commissioner of baseball is the worst and I
apologize if he ever hears me,but I think he's the worst.
I don't think he has anyintegrity into the game.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
He completely mishandled Pete Rose and they
did nothing to really promoteShoeless Joe Jackson in the wake
of that or before that.
You know, it was just clearly,and not that Pete deserved any
sort of break I don't think hedid.
But this commissioner and thelast commissioner and you know
(40:31):
the media is culpable too.
Right, you know we went throughthe steroid era and they're
keeping these guys out of theHall of Fame.
We went through the steroid eraand they're keeping these guys
out of the Hall of Fame, andwhat they've done is they've
created this kind of a vacuumwhere.
Look at who's getting into theHall of Fame.
Ichiro deserves it, clearly oneof the best players ever and
CeCe before this era.
(40:52):
You could make the argument hedid or didn't deserve it.
But there are guys getting intothe Hall of Fame now that are
not Hall of Famers, and a lot ofit has to do with the fact that
they're keeping a wholegeneration of players out of the
league because of steroids.
But they knew it was going on.
They put all three managersthat had the biggest steroid
(41:14):
users.
They put Joe Torre, cox and LaRussa.
Those guys were at theepicenter of the whole thing and
you put all three of them inthe Hall of Fame.
You can't tell me those guysdidn't know their players were
on steroids.
They know they benefited fromthat.
So how do you?
Where do you draw the line?
Mike Piazza gets in, but thisguy doesn't get in.
This guy gets in and that guydoesn't get in.
(41:34):
I mean, harold Baines got innot accusing him of steroids,
because if he was on steroidsit's even worse but he's not a
Hall of Famer and I'm a toughjudge and it has nothing to do
with my Red Sox bias.
But Jim Rice is a Hall of Famerand Dom always says he was the
best hitter for 10 years in theAmerican League.
Okay, well, but is he Aaron Ruthor Mays?
(41:57):
Is he Mantle DiMaggio or TedWilliams?
I just don't see that.
So you know you want to expandthe sport, you want to make more
money.
You know where do you draw theline?
There used to be a clear line,there used to be ethics and
integrity in baseball and it isgone.
Now it's completely gone andyou throw in the gambling and
(42:19):
you throw in the money from thestreaming and all these other
entities and you've got aterrible product on the field.
So in another 30 years you'regoing to see guys getting the
hall of fame.
How's that guy a hall of famer?
and the generation kids watchingnow won't know any better.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
It's being designed on the back of an envelope.
You know what I mean.
It's really fun, and the onlyguy that could do that is
Abraham Lincoln.
He wrote the Gettysburg Addresson the way in the train.
But beyond that nobody can, andit really is whim without reason
.
It's a trend and it's, theseare all, and pretty much that's
(43:05):
the theme of our show, and wherethere's all these trends, um,
that we believe are detrimentalto the, uh, the ethics of the
game, uh, the professionalism ofthe game.
I mean, I saw I wish I couldremember his name.
I saw an umpire the other nightcall a pitch right down the
(43:27):
middle.
Oh, don't get me started Rightdown the middle.
I mean down the middle, I meanthe television guys were like
huh.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Did you see?
I think it was.
Was it last night or the nightbefore the first female umpire?
had her first game behind homeplate and the first pitch it
wasn't even close, it was sixinches inside.
She called it a strike.
The announcers didn't know whatto say and then they saved the
baseball.
They took the baseball off thefield and saved it and I just it
(43:59):
was like it was.
It looks so.
They must've said no matterwhere it is, call it a strike,
we're saving the baseball, we'regoing to.
You know, we're going to put itup for auction, you're going to
sell it.
Something's going to.
I couldn't believe what I waswatching when I saw it.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
I mean, does it really matter whether it was a
ball or a strike to save thebaseball?
It doesn't.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
It certainly doesn't.
It shouldn't.
It shouldn't matter that she'sfemale either.
Can you call balls and strikes?
Because if you can't see, ya, Imean, I think they did it
because they know what's coming.
They're getting rid of umpires,right, you're going to have an
(44:38):
automated strike zone.
It should already be inexistence Today.
I saw, because I hadn't watchedany football preseason anyway I
saw what they're doing with thefirst down marker and they've
taken the guys with the chainsoff the field completely Really.
Yeah, I couldn't believe it.
I couldn't believe it Becauseyou, you got to figure those
(45:00):
guys have to be there anyway.
But instead I'm I'm assumingthere's something in the
football, maybe there's a chipin the football, but it's an
animated screen where thefootball is placed on the field
at at whatever mark, and then itshows you the distance to the
first down.
It says 9 inches, 10 inches,and that's how they're measuring
(45:21):
for first downs.
Now, I couldn't believe it.
I could not believe what Iwatched, and you know, that's a
cool thing.
I guess I don't know why theyhad to take the guys with the
chains off the field, althoughthere was some discrepancies
with the chain gangs the lastcouple years where people were
doing videos on them.
(45:42):
You know moving the yardmarkers and not being in the
right position, so maybe thegambling has something to do
with it.
To make it more precise, rightbut I was shocked when I saw
that.
But the more I I you, I saw itlike three times and it made me
realize if you're going to dothat, for you know it's.
It's no different than ballsand strikes, and they can.
(46:04):
They have the technology to dothis, so why not utilize it?
You could still have an umpirebehind home plate for calls at
the plate.
You can still have an umpirebehind home plate to.
You know the pitcher balked,the.
You know whatever it is, thepitcher balked, whatever it is,
he's got to call all the otherstuff.
They don't have to call ballsand strikes.
It's funny to listen to peopleargue about how baseball didn't
(46:26):
include XYZ back in the 30s and40s and the players today are so
much better.
But then when you say I want anautomated strike zone, they
lose their minds.
To me, if all this technologywas available when Abner
Doubleday invented baseball,we'd be using it.
Instant replay, whether the guytouched the base or not, balls
and strikes, everything, and Idon't think there's anything
(46:48):
wrong with that.
You want to get the call right.
Speaker 1 (46:50):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
So you know, look at Works in tennis.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Works in tennis.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
Yeah, so why not use it for baseball?
They're so far behind and itjust makes you wonder that they
don't want to spend the money onthese things.
They haven't figured out how tomonetize it, so they're not
going to make it available,which is just.
It's so silly.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
Maybe they don't know how to control it.
Speaker 2 (47:18):
Yeah, I mean I wonder sometimes, because when you
watch it on TV you see the frameright, you just see the frame
outline of the strike zone andhome plate has depth.
Right Home plate is 18 inchesacross and I think it's 18
inches deep, or maybe it's 22inches, I can't remember the
dimensions and then you havewhere that volume of space fits,
(47:42):
according to where the batteris standing in the batter's box
as well as the size of theplayer.
But it seems to me that they'vegot that narrow depth, that
they've got the size of thestrike zone pretty much intact.
So if they have it, then whynot use it?
Just eliminate all this.
(48:03):
You know other stuff and takethe error out of it.
You know I don't expect umpiresto be perfect, but some of these
guys miss calls that are just Imean, you can't miss calls
right down the plate, you can'tmiss that.
You know.
Maybe all right, the catcherwas setting up outside, which
you don't really see that a lotanymore.
The catcher set up outside.
(48:24):
The umpire is behind thecatcher and the ball was to the
left and even though it was overthe plate maybe it looked
outside to the umpire.
To me it's inexcusable.
You can't miss, you can't miss,can't miss and it takes.
You know the catcher framingthe pitch, he brings it up, he
brings it down.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
You just take all that away and if you question
him, he throws you out and ifyou right, you can't, you can't,
no, no, no questioning ballsand strikes.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
Well, wait a minute.
If you're gonna make that rule,then use the automated strike
zone.
Then we won't question anything, we'll just all agree to it and
then that's it all right.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
Well, I think we covered a lot of ills of the
world and many different sportsthat we're talking about now.
Speaker 2 (49:05):
Um, I know you wanted to get back to jerry yeah, well
, we'll do that.
Speaker 1 (49:09):
I think we'll save that for another night.
I mean, more is going to happen, uh, and he's talking about
jerry jones and football, but onour next show, which is two
weeks from now, the third weekin August, you'll see that, you
know this might have been tradedby then yeah, maybe alright,
everybody.
Speaker 2 (49:30):
Justin, thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (49:32):
We'll be back.
I'll play our theme song on theway out and thank you very much
and.
I'll see you soon.
Alright, see you soon.
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