Tracking Bigfoot: A Journey from Past to Present with Dr.Simeon Hein

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What if everything you thought you knew about Bigfoot was just scratching the surface of a much deeper mystery? Dr. Simeon Hine, researcher and author, takes us on a mind-expanding journey into the world of Sasquatch that goes far beyond the conventional image of a rare woodland ape.

The famous Patterson-Gimlin film from 1967 remains our clearest visual evidence, showing muscle movements that human physiologists confirm would be impossible to fake with costume technology of that era. But the most compelling aspects of the Bigfoot phenomenon emerge through consistent witness testimonies spanning centuries and continents. Native American traditions describe trading with these beings – typically exchanging salmon for medicinal herbs. Linguistic experts analyzing recorded vocalizations have identified consistent phonemes and syllabic structures that suggest genuine language capabilities rather than animal calls.

Most remarkably, witnesses consistently report these creatures exhibiting what Dr. Hine calls "extended electromagnetic abilities" – most notably, the capacity to become nearly invisible by seemingly "digitizing" into sparkly lights before disappearing. Their extraordinary intelligence manifests through perfect-aim rock throwing and uncanny mimicry abilities, reproducing almost any sound they've heard with perfect fidelity. These aren't behaviors we'd expect from a relict ape species.

Government agencies may know more than they acknowledge. Park rangers and forest service employees have allegedly been explicitly told not to report Bigfoot encounters if they wanted to keep their jobs. The institutional reluctance to acknowledge these beings mirrors how UFO reporting was stigmatized for decades – a paradigm that's finally shifting.

Ready to explore this mystery for yourself? Dr. Hine's work at newcrystalmind.com, his YouTube channel "Fractal Friend," and books including "Dark Matter Monsters" provide deeper insights into not just Bigfoot, but how our understanding of reality itself might need expanding.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 2 (00:53):
Thank you, Hello everybody, and welcome to A
Better Life, New York.
Today's topic, of course, isBigfoot, and we have with us
again.
We're lucky enough to haveSimeon Hine Hine is pronounced
right.
Yeah, Simeon Hine, who, as youknow, is, I should say, Dr Hine

(01:19):
is a researcher into so manythings that we're all interested
in.
Our last podcast had to do withremote viewing a great response
from everyone, and lately he'sbeen or probably a little more
than lately he's beenresearching into Bigfoot.
Thank you for being here, Dr.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
Haim.
Thanks very much, Steve.
Thanks for having me here todayhi, thanks very much, steve.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
Thanks for having me here today.
So the video we just showed isis really just a video from
that's been around for a longtime.
I forget the exact name of it.
It's called the two guys name,patterson gimlin, patterson
gimlin, and it's gone to greatcurse.
Uh, I think it's from the.
It's from a long time, is it 68or something?
67, bluff Creek, california.
So this video has been wellknown and it's been satirized

(02:13):
from everywhere, from theSimpsons to everything.
But, though some people don'tbelieve it, they've created this
high definition.
You know, with all thetechnology you have and from
what I understand I'll let drhein talk about it more um, that
you can see the muscles moveand flex exactly how a creature

(02:34):
would walk, and it's notsomebody in a suit, that's for
sure.
So, uh, I leave it to you,doctor.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
So I leave it to you, doctor.
Well, steve, thanks.
Thanks again for having me here.
I should add that you know,with the previous time I was on
with you and Dominic, we talkedabout remote viewing.
Dominic had taken one of myremote viewing classes.
People remember it's this sortof innate ability we have to
have non-local perception,coming out of a 20-year

(03:05):
government military intelligenceprogram to train psychic spies.
I began teaching this back inBoulder, colorado.
I was astounded that it reallyworked, that you could describe
a hidden picture that you hadn'tseen yet, and I thought it had
such positive impacts onpeople's sense of curiosity and
understanding themselves andunderstanding our world and our

(03:27):
universe.
I started teaching it inBoulder, colorado, in 1997.
I started my own company thereMount Baldy Institute and over
the years, steve, students in myclass who were natives of
Colorado told me about theirBigfoot encounters and this
isn't something I knew very muchabout.

(03:49):
I had seen thatPatterson-Gimlin film in a local
Westchester theater here.
You know I grew up in this area.
I remember going to see a moviewith my brother and they had a
little documentary trailer,which is kind of unusual in
movies.
Sure, you'd see previews andthings like this, but this

(04:09):
happened to be a Bigfoot minidocumentary.
I think it was about 10 to 15minutes long and they showed the
Patterson-Gimlin film and thatwould have been for me around
1975.
Anderson Gimlin film and thatwould have been for me around
1975.

(04:29):
So I saw that film when I was ateenager and I didn't really
know what I was looking at.
Over the years I startedlistening to a show many people
are familiar with who probablylisten to your channel here Art
Bell Show, coast to Coast to AM,as it's now known, and I had a
chance to listen to some oftheir Bigfoot experts.
Over the years and based onwhat I heard there, I thought,

(04:52):
if these cryptozoologists asthey call themselves, people who
study rare animals were correctthat this was some sort of very
rare North American wood ape,perhaps a relative of
Gigantopithecus blackii, whichis a huge gorilla that lived

(05:15):
millions of years ago in China,and they found one.
I think they found a jawbonefrom it One jawbone and some
teeth from China China from, youknow, fossilized from two
million years ago and variousresearchers.
I happen to be within the samebuilding as one of these, grover
Krantz, when I went toWashington State University in

(05:39):
eastern Colorado, starting inthe 80s through early 90s.
I got my Ph, my PhD, out there.
One floor up I was in sociology.
One floor up anthropology wasDr Grover Krantz who, steve, was
one of the first academics toseriously study the Bigfoot
topic, since that area ofWashington, blue Mountains,
where I just was a few weeks ago, had footprints and sightings

(06:00):
and hair samples, had footprintsand sightings and hair samples
and he argued this was a realcreature and together with a
couple other academics andresearchers Dr John Bindernagel
from Canada, bc, who was awildlife researcher they
concluded this was some sort ofrare ape, possibly an ancestor,

(06:27):
a descendant of Gigantopithecus.
They didn't know, this was forcertain, but they just said
that's what it would really haveto be.
It's the only connection wehave of any sort of ape that
could have come over the BeringStraits a long time ago.
So I thought that's what wewere dealing with for a long
time.
So I wasn't all that interestedbecause I thought it was just
very rare.
It was just some very rare woodape that you and I would never

(06:49):
see Right In the Northwest youknow Cascades and maybe there
were 1,500 of them total inNorth America and it was just
nothing special because it wasjust a relic primate Related to
us.
One of the primates were aprimate, but another prosimian

(07:13):
that was just had survivedthrough the ice ages.
But when I began to talk to thepeople that took my RV classes
who had grown up in Colorado, itdidn't really seem to fit their
descriptions and the moreresearch I did, the more I found
it had a lot more human-likecharacteristics than you would

(07:33):
have expected if it was more inthe direction of being a monkey
or, you know, ape or somethinglike this.
One of the witnesses describedone of my students described
being pulled out of a sleepingbag while camping by himself up
north of Boulder, west ofBoulder, nederland, in a
campground where there were noother people and something

(07:55):
unzipped.
The tent pulls him out atrocket speeds.
He said the G-forces were sostrong he couldn't.
He was in the foot of thesleeping bag and he's six foot
four.
He was a former power trooperand it pulled him out 30 feet
from the tent, screamed, dropshim, pops his head out, nothing
there.
Another woman described havinga telepathic image in her mind

(08:17):
upstairs north of ColoradoSprings in a house she shared
with some other women.
She shared with some otherwomen, the woman downstairs in
the kitchen at the time sawexactly what my student Barbara
had seen in her mind's eye,which was a red face, a kind of
red orange haired Bigfoot, andshe heard the scream.
But somehow the image in hermind was exactly what her friend

(08:39):
had seen, which suggested somesort of telepathic overlay,
something I'd be familiar withfrom remote viewing.
Anyway, steve, the moreresearch I did, the more it
seemed that this wasn't reallyan ape at all.
You look at the North AmericanNative American traditions.
They talk about theirgrandparents, grandparents in

(09:02):
last century, 20th century,trading with Bigfoot, regularly
Salmon for medicinal herbs.
It's usually the same trade forthe Northwest Coast natives and
this is true throughoutindigenous peoples throughout
the world.
They have language, sierrasounds and movies coming out.

(09:23):
That was about the Sierrasounds that Ron Moorhead and
others.
I'm sure you've seen them.
Those are kind of chattering,yes, and linguists, scott Nelson
and others who've listened tothis, who are trained military
cryptologists specializing inlanguages, have told us this is,
this is definitely they'rephonemes.

(09:44):
In those sounds there'ssyllables.
We don't know what they'resaying but they're communicating
back and forth in this rapidsort of what some people call
reverse samurai talk.
And whether it's East Coast orWest Coast, it always seems to
have that reverse samuraichatter speak.
So this film you showed us justnow, the Patterson-Gimlin film,

(10:08):
to this day still appears to beone of the best films we have of
the creature and, as you cansee, it seems to be walking very
comfortably on two legs, theway we would walk, but a little
more hunched over, and there'ssome motion in the arch of the
foot which is more reminiscentof a human, you know, than of an

(10:32):
ape and you know intelligentcharacteristics.
Turning to look at the camera,my view is it's a real film.
I just saw a very detailedanalysis by researcher MK Davis
at the Oak Ridge BigfootFestival in Oregon just a couple
of weeks ago, early July, andhe showed us the first ever 4K

(10:56):
upscaled version of that filmthat had been enhanced to make
it very close to secondgeneration, not the third
generation that we're used toseeing, which is copies of
copies of copies.
This has just been a copy of theoriginal copy or maybe a little
better.
And, as you said, steve, heshowed us muscle motion, you

(11:16):
know, which human physiologistshave looked at and said that's
the way real human muscles move,just like that around the legs,
the torso.
You can see even the film youshowed us there, steve the
Sasquatch.
There has a ponytail, somethinglike a pony.
You can see long hair in theback and something like a
ponytail which we don't knowthat.

(11:37):
We're not familiar with apesdoing that.
So a lot of the evidence seemsto suggest that the early
cryptozoologists and researcherslike Krantz and Bindernagel and

(11:57):
others were correct to say thisis a real creature, special
electromagnetic abilities whichwe can talk about later, more in
that direction than, uh, a rarewood ape or anything ordinary
that we can easily understandright.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
so I mean not to jump ahead here, but there is some
thought process and some of thethings I've seen, that this
creature has its ability, almostchameleon like that.
It's able to be in the woodsand blend into its scenery, and
how that's done is anyone'sguess, but not by the same way

(12:34):
that chameleons do.
Where they change the color,they have some ability, where
they're able to mask their form,and though you do, when you see
them.
And people have said thatthere's this displacement of
light, almost, and and I findthat very interesting because in

(12:58):
some ways, if it is related tous in some way, that you know,
as we all know from readingDarwin 100 years ago, that these
things all branch off intodifferent evolutionary cycles or
evolutionary paths, and somehow, if they are related to this,

(13:22):
they have become moresophisticated.
In some ways, maybe out ofnecessity, mother nature taking
care of its own um, but I I findthat very, very interesting
surely feeds into the mystery ofit all right.

Speaker 1 (13:38):
What you're describing is usually referred
to as the predator effect fromthe movie predator the original
virgin had arnold schwarzeneggerin it, and there's that
creature that comes from anotherplanet to like hunt things here
on earth, and it has theability to become

(13:58):
semi-transparent as a way of Nowit turns out that effect was
created by Paul Hynek, j AllenHynek's son, j Allen Hynek being
the researcher for the AirForce that worked with Jacques
Vallée in Project Blue Book,initially to discredit UFOs and
debunk them, and he came to theconclusion that something was

(14:20):
really going on.
It's his son just happens to behis son working as a special
effects creator in Hollywood inthe 80s.
I was listening to an interviewwith him the other day.
I forgot how he said he came upwith that effect.
He just sort of was thinkingthrough it and I thought it'd be
kind of cool to try it out.
Well, that's what people seearound Bigfoot, believe it or

(14:42):
not?
What people see around bigfoot,believe it or not.
Now, as you mentioned, we dohave other examples of
cuttlefish, even octopus,changing their color, chameleons
, I believe.
These are called chromophores,if I'm not mistaken, and these
are creatures that are able tochange their pigmentation or the

(15:03):
appearance of theirpigmentation.
The way the morphos butterflylooks blue, that big blue
butterfly, it's not really bluesteve, it's.
It's using wave guides builtinto its scale structure and its
wings to change the frequencyof light so that you only see
blue reflected, and it gives itthat just like the sky is not

(15:26):
blue.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
Okay, we see blue only because that's what's being
filtered through it exactly,exactly.

Speaker 1 (15:34):
So.
Some things look the way theylook because they're able to
transmit light through them andbecome semi transparent, and
others use metamaterials,biological metamaterials that
are smaller than the wavelengthof light, to modify the
wavelength of light to reflectblue back, but it's not from a

(15:54):
dye or anything.
As you'll see, in nature, blueis kind of on the rare side.
So we have examples fromanimals we already know and
accept of ability to camouflage,hide, change colors quickly.
The interesting thing aboutBigfoot is, steve, if you use
these ordinary animal models,like we've been taught from the

(16:16):
cryptozoologists I'm talking notfrom traditional biologists who
even doubt the existence ofsuch a creature.
I'm talking people who've goneout on a limb, like Grover
Krantz or John Bender Noggle orothers, who've said look, we
have footprints, we have hair,we have sightings, sounds at
night, the howling sounds.
It's more than that, becausethey do seem to have the ability

(16:39):
to become transparent right infront of witnesses.
Now, I mean you know, fromhaving spoken to me in the
previous interview and so forth,I'm a data-driven person.
I mean I used to teachstatistics.
You know people that spendyears of their life getting PhDs
.
You don't just fool aroundafterwards and believe in

(17:01):
anything.
So you want real data and wehave that in this case.
We have multiple people sayingthey saw it go invisible in
front of their eyes and I'vespoken to them.
Steve, I have gone to theseconferences, most of them being
out West though Bigfoot.
Again, to correct another mythit's not just in Washington and

(17:23):
Oregon and parts of Canada.
It's seen in every state,including Rhode Island and
Delaware the smallest stateshave Bigfoot sightings.
But I've spoken to witnesses atthese conferences who've said
I've never talked about this toanyone before In fact, I've
never been to a conferencebefore but what I saw was one go

(17:46):
invisible.
So you ask well, what did yousee?
They said it digitized.
It became like sparkly lights.
Now here's the thing this iswhat all witnesses report all
around the world, which makes agood case for that type of
evidence.
These are people that haven'tspent a lot of time in the
Bigfoot community, but wherethey're describing is exactly

(18:08):
what you heard from adescription of a Bigfoot
sighting in Russia, othercountries, other states.
I even spoke to someone just afew months ago giving a lecture
in Idaho, and this person andher husband were there and they
said we saw your presentationlast year and I just didn there
and we say they said we saw yourpresentation last year and I
just didn't say anything to you.
But we saw one go through ourbackyard and as we got a little

(18:33):
closer it turned into.
She said it's hard to describeit like a shimmering,
translucent image, a littlesparkly, and the husband, they
both saw it.
So, steve, either all thesepeople are just randomly making
this up and they don't even wantto be known that's certainly
one possibility or there is somereal, very different phenomena

(18:54):
going on around bigfoot thanwe've been led to believe, even
from the traditional bigfootresearch which is interesting
right.
Very interesting.
Very interesting, I mean itsuggests a life form that has a
human-like appearance, orgorilla human-like appearance,

(19:14):
something in that direction.
Hair covered, huge, humanthat's developed abilities that
you and I never in our wildestimaginations thought that you
and I had.
We may have heard stories ofyogis in India becoming
invisible.
These are anecdotal storieshere and there.
They're a little hard to verify.

(19:36):
They could be from ancienttexts and we might have thought
it's some special ability thatsomeone that had spent decades
meditating in the Himalayanmountains, maybe, who knows,
maybe they developed this, butthis seems to be a regular
feature of Bigfoot.
So, from my point of view as asociologist, a lot of what this
has to do with is inability ofour minds, personally and

(20:01):
collectively, to accept thatthere could be other minds,
personally and collectively, toaccept that there could be other
human type creatures on theplanet with us that science
doesn't really know about andhas abilities that outstrip our
own human abilities.
In other words, maybe we're notthe top of the food chain.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
Right.
So you know, evolution meansevolve, right, you involve to
survive in your environment.
Evolution means evolve, right,you evolve to survive in your
environment.
I mean humans don't need toevolve.
We are at the top of our foodchain, so to speak.
We live in our own world.
We control our environments,the temperature, the food and

(20:38):
whatever.
When we have another creaturethat might have continued to
evolve, maybe maybe not, maybeit's always been there and been
like that, maybe it was just asmall, you know we talk about
when we think of evolution andthat's the theoretical Eve right
, that some female creature,whatever wears in a food chain

(21:03):
is theoretically the beginningof all humans and that through

(21:26):
the mitochondria cells orwhatever we at certain times
there's two different lines ofprehistoric apes or humans, or
whatever you want to call themcavemen that exist in the same
time period.

Speaker 1 (21:43):
Right and there's genetic evidence for that.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
Yes, right Genetic evidence, and you know, there
are evidence in certain placeswhere the superior one killed
off all the others right.
So isn't it possible that thatin nature, that this other
strain who maybe was susceptibleto our technology, found a way,

(22:05):
or evolved in a way to protectthemselves and survive?
Right, I?

Speaker 1 (22:11):
don't think that sounds very far-fetched at all.
It's typically what happens inany ecosystem where you have new
types of species come in.
The other species either adaptor they die off, but often they
find ways of adapting.
You read about this now, asclimate change happens, that
some species are moving tohigher elevations.

(22:33):
You find mountain goats andother species of trees and
plants.
I mean, I read about this inScience Magazine.
They're at higher elevationsthan they used to be.
In fact, it's moving up likeabout 10 feet a year or
something I mean on average,which is a lot over a number of
decades.
So yeah, that really would seemto be one possibility here.

(22:55):
The Native Americans all of them, as far as I know said that the
Sasquatch were the originalpeople here.
Before they got here, in fact,when they crossed over the
Bering Straits whenever youbelieve that happened I mean
it's getting pushed back from10,000 years ago, like we were
taught in school, to 15 or18,000 years ago they said they

(23:16):
already encountered theseancient ones, the original
inhabitants, and it must havebeen a shock for even the
Sasquatch Maybe they weren'there in super large numbers to
have hundreds of thousands ofother humans show up who were,
you know, smaller and weaker buthad technology and weapons and

(23:37):
things maybe they didn't have.
So they probably pushed back alittle bit.
I mean, I think you and I werementioning the other day even
Leif Erikson, and the Vikingsmentioned, I believe, in 900 AD
that they encountered tall,hairy, screaming human-like
creatures.
You have reports from everyonewho's ever visited North

(23:59):
Americaica of these type ofentities.
So perhaps over the hundreds ofthousands of years, for some
reason, they evolved in onedirection and you know our
species evolved in thistechnological, brainy direction,
um, but they didn't go in thatdirection.

(24:20):
We could be originally from thesame ancestor way, way back.
Who knows what happened.
But, steve, I think the bigchallenge here is academics.
In my experience and I mean Icome from academia they're very
rigid in my view.
They don't like to change theirstories.
They've published andestablished a fiefdom in their

(24:44):
particular knowledge territoryand they generally do not like
to have that completely upendedby younger scientists that come
along.
Inevitably.
This is what happens.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
That happens all the time, right when we have to tell
people that the planets don'trevolve around the Earth.
They actually revolve aroundthe sun.
But you know you don't want tobelieve that.

Speaker 1 (25:09):
So okay, let's kill everybody that says it yeah, you
imprison them, you put themunder house arrest, like
happened to Galileo, for thelast 10 years of their life.
You burn them at the stake,like Giordano Bruno.
I mean, this isn't that longago in our history and it hasn't
changed as much as you and Imight want it to change in our

(25:29):
audience.
It's just we don't burn peopleat the stake anymore.
But we may deny you tenure, wemay make it hard for you to be
employed, and people have to runtheir lives and pay their bills
and their mortgages.
So in my experience,professionals are under a type
of blackmail to stick with theirtribe of other professionals.

(25:53):
The last thing they want to beis ridiculed, because it would
make it harder to publish.

Speaker 2 (25:58):
Right Ostracized.
Look at Oppen oppenheimer.
You know, oppenheimer, duringhis third his theories, there
were a handful of of people thatyou know kind of believed what
it is and he started you knowthe beginnings of what he
thought of in physics in incalifornia.

(26:19):
No one else was doing it, youknow.
And next thing you know theywant him to build a bomb, right,
so you?

Speaker 1 (26:26):
know, you know I'm slightly related to Oppenheimer.
I found out recently that myfather's brother married his
granddaughter.
Isn't that interesting?
Yeah, so by marriage I havesome connection back to Ralph,
go figure, but that isabsolutely right, steve.

(26:48):
This is what we're up against,the human species is up against
is this rigid, dogmatic attitude, and we would all like to
believe that scientists andacademics are objective, that
they're willing to adapt theirbeliefs to data, to evidence,
right to reality.
But I'm afraid to say itdoesn't happen as much as we

(27:09):
would like it to.
There's a lot of resistance tochange and new ideas and new
methods of looking at data, andso what you get from the
anthropological communitytowards Bigfoot is more a type
of ridicule and a type of adhominem attacks, not really

(27:32):
dealing with the evidence, butjust saying finding ways to
laugh at it and make snideremarks in a way you might
expect from the New Yorkermagazine or some of our top
newspapers, rather than aserious scientific inquiry.
Now you and I know what happensin the long run.
The data catches up withsociety, like it did with leaded

(27:54):
gasoline.
We don't do that anymore.
It can take decades, buteventually the data catch up and
people realize we have to makea change.
We're seeing this happen rightnow with the UFO subject, with
all these congressional hearings, and there are more of insecure

(28:30):
, compartmentalized facilitiesto hear what they say they've
seen, which probably would bequite shocking to the public if
they were privy to this type ofknowledge.
But once it happens in one areathat's really been held back
for whatever reasons, it seemsto me there's a contagion effect
.
It begins to happen in otherareas of knowledge.

(28:50):
I mean in your introduction tome it's a very kind introduction
People probably wonder how didSimeon go from RV to Bigfoot
UFOs crop circles, from RV toBigfoot UFOs crop circles?
It's because you come acrosswitnesses at conferences around
those topics who are coming fromanother subject area, but they
feel they'll be around peoplethat are open to hearing about

(29:13):
their experiences working forthe government and so forth,
because they wanna talk tosomebody.
And often people in classifiedoccupations suffer from a lack
of communication with any otherpeople.
So the time goes by, they wantto talk about other people.
They're not going to sharetheir classified information,
but they want to be aroundlike-minded people.
So you begin to realize there'sa whole series of classified

(29:36):
topics and I don't think itlasts forever, just like the
Berlin Wall didn't last foreverand came down quite suddenly in
89.
I happened to be working inEurope that summer.
I saw the beginnings of it,working in Vienna with the East
Germans coming over there, andit never stopped and by the end

(29:57):
of the year the wall was goneand East Germany had ceased to
exist.
And no one predicted it.
So I feel in a similar way thatcould happen with these topics,
because during the length oftime I've been alive and you
know kind of a thinking person,I haven't seen that much
interest in these topics, butI've seen a lot of evidence and

(30:20):
the evidence keeps growing and Ithink you get a very fast
reaction.
I mean I called one of my booksBlack Swan Ghosts for a reason.
It's like a black swan event,but with a whole subject matter
that previously everyone wasjust sort of laughing about and
all of a sudden it could be inyour face.
So I think that could be truewith the Bigfoot topic.

(30:41):
Academics haven't been veryopen to this, even from people
in their own fields, becausethey seem to perceive that they
get professional benefits fromsticking with the pack and with
the rest of their colleaguesmaking fun of it and laughing at
these researchers who areserious and probably having fun

(31:03):
poking holes in their papersthat are sent out for peer
review and inevitably theinformation comes out and I
think those people that werelaughing won't be laughing
forever.
They'll realize whoa it reallyturned out to be real.
There are even articles in theNew York Times recently another
article about UFOs theypublished that article in 2017,

(31:30):
which changed the landscape Allof a sudden.
They're saying this issomething we need to look at a
little more closely.
So I think my view and I couldbe wrong is that this will
happen with a series of topics,because, sort of like in my
situation when I found outremote viewing really was a real
thing, that people had aninnate psychic ability maybe

(31:50):
it's very faint, but it's thereand I found there had been a
classified program run out ofdefense intelligence agency to
create psychic spies, and and Ispoke to people who were former
Pentagon officials who told meabout their knowledge of Soviet
psychic feats, includingtelekinesis ability to move
things at a distance that theyhad witnessed through

(32:12):
eavesdropping on Sovietexperiments Then you start to
wonder well, what else is truethat they haven't told us about?
To wonder, well, what else istrue that they haven't told us
about?
If it was true, about RV, whichis just one component of all of
the paranormal phenomena wetalk about if you could call it
paranormal at all Well, whatelse that you and I have heard

(32:33):
about really has a lot ofevidence behind it Bigfoot, ufos
, ghosts, phenomena like that,even free energy, cold fusion,
low energy, nuclear reaction.
You begin to wonder whetherthere was a widespread campaign
from various aspects of thefederal government to suppress

(32:57):
these topics, these topics maybefor reasons they felt justified
.
They don't want, you know,secrets and new technology
getting in the hands of ouradversaries before we develop
them.
I mean, we can understand that,but that our sense of reality
has been distorted for probablyat least 70 years.
That's my view of it.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
Well, there's probably some truth to that.
I don't think at this point.
We've learned that thegovernment lies to us about
various things.
Look at the Vietnam War.
The Pentagon Papers is aperfect example.
How you know, in the openingscene in the movie, the Post

(33:38):
McNamara's Secretary of Defenseis on the plane saying we put
all these troops in, it doesn'tmake a difference, they're all
dying, we're not gettinganywhere.
And then he walks off the planeand the press is there and he
says everything's great, we'rereally making headway.
And he lies to everybody.
So you know that that happened.
And if you've ever seen thedocumentary errol errol mars I

(34:03):
don't know if you're familiarwith his documentaries, but he
is a great documentarian and oneof my favorites he does.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
He did a movie, a documentary, called the fog of
war and it's an interview withmcnamara where he describes how
he screwed everything up andbasically lied to everyone and
looking at it back, he made themistake, Right, right, and
that's a good example, becausemy PhD dissertation was about

(34:35):
how we report, how the newsmedia cover wars and how that's
changed over many decades andit's become increasingly
manipulated, the informationthat the public gets, the
Vietnam War being the first warwhere they used mainframe
computers to tabulate statistics, right, and they could always

(35:00):
make it look like we were makingprogress incrementally with the
numbers.
But anyone who served overthere you've probably known
Vietnam vets could have told youfrom the beginning they saw as
soon as they got there it wasn'twinnable, because the morale
wasn't there, because the SouthVietnamese, you know, just
didn't really have the will todo it and there was corruption,

(35:23):
right, All amount of corruptionand so forth.
And by throwing more money andresources and this probably
happened in the Iraq wars too bythrowing more resources into a
corrupt government, you're notgoing to, still not going to win
, so they're going to keep themoney and channel it off to
their mansions somewhere inItaly.
So the thing about that was themore processing media power,

(35:48):
information power, statistics wehad, the more you could make it
look like Vietnam was awinnable situation.
So that is the point, is weactually have less access
directly to what's really goingon, because there's such a big
industry now into massaging andmanipulating and data mining to

(36:12):
create statistics.
You've probably seen this inthe courtroom, where people can
come up with almost any fact youwant if you pay some company
enough to cherry pick the dataand you can take it apart.
But you have to see how theydid.
They have a real objective,unbiased process for creating
that information and if there'san agenda there, they're going

(36:34):
to skew it in their direction.
So this is what's happened witha lot of these topics and we
know that there have beendisinformation campaigns about
these topics from the governmentjust to throw the public off.
I mean project blue book beingone example.
I know people that worked inproject blue book.

(36:54):
They told me all the reallygood photos of the ufos were put
in a different section at atWright Patterson in another
building or another room.
They said what I said.
What did they look like?
The really good photos?
They said look well, you knowthe disks in the and typical UFO
shapes.
But we didn't show that.
We classified it.

(37:16):
Even that general at the end ofBlue Book.
That said Bollander, CarolBollander, who said that all the
really important informationbypassed Blue Book and got
directly classified so you couldhave this report at the end and
conclude well, we didn't reallyfind anything.
But what they should have saidis we didn't really find

(37:37):
anything from the very smallnumber of reports that we took
out of the original data set,which I mean in my training as a
statistician, means biased, notvalid conclusion, because
you're not looking at the wholepopulation of data Right.

Speaker 2 (37:52):
So the reality is it's not that we gave you the
wrong answers, that we asked thewrong questions.
There, you go and that providedthe wrong answers, or should
say an answer that really isn'taccurate because it doesn't have
all the information, and that'swhy, on a topic like this

(38:17):
Bigfoot, we're relying onregular people.

Speaker 1 (38:21):
Yeah, we're relying on regular people.
Yeah, we're relying on regularpeople.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
And that's what it takes.
And you know the only timeyou're going to get.
The better evidence that getsbrought to light is the more
you'll get somebody from thescientific community.
You can't.
You know.
People always say, well, we'renot able to find a body, that
somebody would die.
But I noticed more recentlythat there are sightings with

(38:49):
younger I mean, it's always thelone Bigfoot wandering around.
But now that there's smaller,almost childlike observations or
sightings, um and, and I don'trecall that, before.

Speaker 1 (39:08):
No, there's more and more.
You're seeing videos and photosof families of sasquatch,
bigfoot, right together the theyoung ones.
The descriptions of thejuveniles, by the way, are very
consistent.
Where I was in the BlueMountains in Washington about
two weeks ago, I didn't have anydirect sighting in the area.

(39:29):
We were camping, but some ofthe people had been coming up
there for 10 years every yearand I heard about their group
sightings of some of thesecreatures, where it wasn't just
one person that saw it, A lot ofthem saw it.
They were able to describe whatthey saw and they said the
juvenile ones do look moreape-like and chimp-like, but
they're fast, they're extremelyfast, they have like a

(39:51):
puppy-like speed, you know in asmaller frame they go down on
all fours.
They described them coming upand playing with tents and
things, which is again a verysimilar description from campers
all around the world that thejuveniles will come up and just

(40:12):
tweak one of your tent poles orsomething.
I mean I've had this happen,but I didn't look out fast
enough to see what was doingthis over my years of camping,
so I can't say I've had a directobservation.
But we're having more data comeforward, more videos, more
photos.
It's hard to prove that thoseare real.
You could always.
It's easier to computergenerate them, but when you

(40:33):
listen to the witnesses describewhat they saw, you know, just
using your gut feeling, itappears that many of them are
really describing what they sawand then got the video camera
working.
I mean, there's tons of these onYouTube.
People can look at these and alot of the personally, I'm happy
to be proven wrong.
A lot of them do seem to melike real footage the graininess

(40:54):
or the blurriness.
But I think, Steve, where thedata is going to come from is
the federal government itself,because we have a lot of federal
workers that work out, work innational forests, national parks
, Bureau of Land Management, andlistening to those people and
talking to them over the years,they have said in the past that

(41:17):
they were told by theirsuperiors, like in the Forest
Service, that you know they'llbe laughing one moment about the
encounter and they'll feel alittle better, or someone else
saw something, and then the nextmoment they'll be told and if
you say a word about this,you'll be looking for another
job.

Speaker 2 (41:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:33):
You know that's the unspoken thing.

Speaker 2 (41:35):
Even in the you know, in public sector workers get
that from their bosses.
That's the way it works.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
So those people will tell you their stories, like at
conferences, but they haven'tgone public with them, right,
well, once those sort of peoplefeel safe.
You know, in the UFO subjectthe Navy and other branches of
the armed forces came forwardand said we're not going to
penalize people anymore forreporting UFOs.
They used to when they wouldcome up for their promotional

(42:01):
hearings.
That could be used against them.
Yeah, but the Navy has said atleast we will make sure that
doesn't happen.
I don't know if it's true, butthat's what they've said.
This would have to happen withForest Service workers, national
Park Rangers and those.
There was one, what was it?
Steve Action Jackson inYellowstone, the only ranger

(42:26):
ever to come forward.
He talked about two sightings.
I put it in my book Dark MatterMonsters patrolled the very far
reaches of Yellowstone up tothe Montana area in the
northeast corner for poachersand things, which is an issue in

(42:46):
those parks out west,especially in the wintertime
when there are not a lot ofpeople around.
So he would patrol on horsebackand he described seeing big
creatures on two legs navigatethrough the trees, very unlike
anything he'd ever seen before,with a lot of intelligence, and
he reported hearing them howland so forth and you get a lot

(43:07):
of park rangers talking aboutthis.
But action jackson was veryvocal about this and he wasn't
rehired, even though he was oneof the most popular rangers in
yellowstone, which sends amessage to everyone else working
there If you want to keep yourjob, we don't talk, as I have
read.
We don't talk about this at theGreen and Brown.

(43:28):
They're park service colors.
We don't want to scare people,so they'd rather people get the
shock of their lives hiking inthe backwoods, coming across
these tree structures and thejuveniles, maybe family or
something, and getting a hostilereaction.
They prefer that, and even theoccasional missing hiker then to

(43:48):
, I mean, come forward and justbe a little more open about the
reality of it.
They're still in the mindsetthough I've been told it's
changing a little bit, but stillin the mindset of just hush,
just don't talk about it.
Even I'm told they've comeacross bodies in the course of
plowing the roads out and thingslike this.

(44:10):
You know, in the winter, afterthe winter, the huge snowfalls,
and they've come across theseand just been told bury it under
all the rest of the snow, wedon't want to see it back at
headquarters.
So I think the information isout there, steve just from the
federal workers that work inthese areas, not to mention all
the people, ordinary people,that see these and, I should

(44:33):
point out, from the conferencein Oak Ridge, we were told that
these sightings are increasinglyhappening in urban areas.
I'm not sure why, right, butthe bigfoot are coming into
suburban and even urban areas.
If they do have the ability tocloak or some of them, and I
can't quite totally explain itand the percentages here then

(44:54):
maybe they're more around thanwe think and just very good at
concealing themselves and maybethere's some advantage for them
coming into human-habitatedareas, not just staying way out
in the fringes and the boonies.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
So tell us something, as we've seen recently.
I think you said that you hadsome interactions, or when
you're up there, you have somepictures or something like that.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
I did have some interesting things happen.
It's not really proof in mymind, it just raises some
question marks of what couldhave done this.
One night I did hear somethingvery fast moving around the tent
and it wasn't like animals Iusually hear at night, which
they move kind of slowly.
They don't want to attractattention to themselves from
predators, so they kind of walk.

(45:42):
You hear what four-leggedanimals sound like moving
through grasses and things, butthis was more like a rapid like
that right next to the runningpast the tent.
Big Coyotes can do that whenthey're chasing prey, but it led
me to wonder what two-leggedthing out there sounds like it's
running past your tent at 3 amat those speeds.

(46:04):
It was like daytime activity atnight.
I mean, I looked up animals inthe Blue Mountains that are
nocturnal and there's not verymany that fit the description of
what I heard.
So that's one possibility.
I was told they do run aroundthe tents at night, but I did
hear something that sounded likethat but I didn't see anything.

(46:25):
Another time we went out to alocation Now this is very
interesting Barb Shoup, who's aresearcher in Washington, she
was the one that gave thisouting and invited me to come
along.
She had filmed with her groupabout three miles away.
They were in this area thatsomeone had seen a juvenile
Sasquatch drop out of a tree.
So they started going theremore and this woman had just

(46:47):
gone into this area to turnaround and saw something drop
out of a tree.
So they started going backthere.
Every time they came up to campout and they were filming and
they actually.
There's a guy right next to atree and he hears something drop
down but doesn't see it becauseit's on the other side of the
tree.
But from the camera you can seea big hairy arm come out from

(47:09):
the trunk and then come back.
It's no mistake about it.
It's a big hairy arm with ahand and it's on video.
So Barb described it assomething sliding down the tree
like this, you know, like theymight be able to.
Well, we were out there.
She wanted to take us back outto where that was filmed and I
thought it would be a lot of funto see where you know, see

(47:31):
where this video had been filmed.
It's one of the better videoswe have of something that could
be Sasquatch, unless you thinkthey're like chimpanzees out
there and we come back and mypeanut butter jar has been, uh,
has been opened up and I hadtwisted it shut.
So I imagine raccoons could dosomething like this, but are

(47:53):
they active during the day?
And it had left the lid a kindof good distance, you know, a
foot away from the jar.
So I I mean I guess somethingcould have done that.
But it's consistent with thebehavior, because when I was at
Oak Ridge Festival the next dayafter the conference had ended
the festival and I'm puttingthose presentations I gave there

(48:17):
about my ideas about this, theelectromagnetics, ball lightning
and condensed matter, physicsthat might explain some of this.
I mean a life form that's withextended abilities, extended
electromagnetic abilities.
We went to this area called theOwl Moon Lab and, by the way,
people can see a lot of whatwe're talking about from what

(48:37):
I'm talking about here in thatmovie, a Flash of Beauty,
paranormal Bigfoot.
It's a sequel to the firstFlash of Beauty movie, bigfoot
Revealed, and they had mespeaking about some of these
topics, the electromagnetics andso forth, coherent matter in
Paranormal Bigfoot.
So there was a place there,steve featured, called Owl Moon
Lab.
It's in the Owl Moon NationalForest and someone had moved out

(49:00):
there and they had seen someSasquatch evidence and they
brought something Toke Johnsonback to his area where he was
camped and all these strangethings started happening, which
is not completely unusual forBigfoot experiences.
People bring something back andthen they get this sort of
contact.
I was shown a peanut butter jarthat someone had left there.

(49:20):
It was completely, completelycleaned out, which wouldn't be
that strange.
But what was interesting aboutit is it had a very clear thumb
indentation in the plastic.
I mean, you'd have to have athumb to do this, uh, I mean,
and a very strong one, verystrong thumb, because I tried to
unkink it and I couldn't withreasonable pressure.

(49:43):
And yeah, it's definitely apeanut butter plastic jar with
some thumb and something likethat in it.
A bear wouldn't be able to dothat.
And this apparently Sasquatchlove peanut butter, they love
some of the things they don'thave out there and they will
completely clean out a peanutbutter jar.
And the reason you know itwasn't a squirrel or something

(50:03):
is there's no bite marks.
If you've ever left anythingoutside, even around your home
or camping, squirrels come andthere's a lot of bite marks and
things as they're trying to getit.
No bite marks on this, just onebig tooth mark, like a big, one
tooth size mark.
Again, does it prove anything?
Absolutely no.
I mean there could have beensomeone that you could come up
with counter explanations, butit is consistent with what we've

(50:26):
been told.
Bigfoot do People leave giftsfor them on these stumps of
trees.
They come back a week or twolater and it's been opened up
and they open it up sometimesjust by popping it open with
their thumb.
It's the quick way to get there.
So that is some um evidencethat there were things like tree
structures out there.
Uh, so the Oak Ridge area was alot.

(50:49):
It was very interesting just interms of seeing one of these
so-called gifting sites.
This is where people leavethings and they often find.
They come back and the objectshave been rearranged, but in an
intelligent way, like they leavebeads, and then they come back
and there's another patternthere.
It's part of the lore ofBigfoot research.

(51:10):
Now, just because it's loredoesn't mean it's not true.
It just sort of has this statusof being part of the Bigfoot
experience.
But maybe that's onepossibility.
It's exactly what it is.
They're dealing with a type ofancient human.
They come along and they see apattern and they do what we
would do they rearrange it orhave a little fun with it, to

(51:30):
communicate.
So that's the sort of type ofthing that I saw.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
It's interesting.

Speaker 1 (51:38):
Yeah, it is very interesting and, I have to say,
in this subject area, the dataseem very consistent from the
West Coast to the East Coast interms of the languages.
By the way, the Flash of Beautycrew the people who made Flash
of Beauty films are coming outwith episodes three and four.

(51:59):
Two new movies.
Three and four new.
Two new movies.
The third one is about voicesin the wilderness.
That's what it's called voicesin the wilderness.
This is the first movie everdocumenting the recording of
this big foot speech which ronmoorehead and the others in this
hunting structure in the 70s uhwere able to.
They went up, you know, eightmiles up on horseback.

(52:19):
They brought in the bestrecording equipment available in
the 70s cassette recordingequipment, Big mics, put them in
the hunting structure and gotthese conversations.
The Voices in the Wilderness isabout that whole area and
there's a Kickstarter up for itright now.
So that should be somethingwe'll be able to see eventually,
to see eventually.

(52:46):
And they created one aboutindigenous people's experience
Native Americans, Alaska andother places and I saw some
previews from that, Steve, ofthis fourth movie I don't know
what it's called yet A Flash ofBeauty, something the Native
American experience or somethinglike that, and these were some
pretty chilling encounters.
We shouldn't imagine that theSasquatch are always friendly,
and in some more remote regionsthey seem to want to be left

(53:07):
alone and sometimes they're verygood at throwing rocks and they
can be hostile too.
Of types of Sasquatch encounters, just like with people, are a
very wide range of encounters.
These ones from Alaska areoften hostile.

(53:32):
In fact, Native Americans Iknow from Alaska won't even tell
me what they call them up thereout of fear of sort of
summoning them by using the name.
They will tell me another namethat is kind of like that, but
not what they call it, becausethey don't want to encounter
them, because it usually meansone of their tribes getting
abducted.
These are common stories I'vespoken to Navajo about this also

(53:53):
where they'll take a child awayfor a while and then bring them
back a couple of years laterand they have become kind of
they've forgotten their initialand they have become kind of
they've forgotten their initialoriginal language.
They become more like theyhaven't been harmed, They've
just been culturally transformedinto Sasquatch-type people and
then they eventually, you know,leave or come back on their own

(54:16):
or whatever, and there's manycases of that in Native American
lore Right yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:29):
Well, I do.
I think we really have torealize that there's something
going on out there in the world,and whether they're friendly,
non-friendly, that's a wholeother story.
I have heard stories ofthrowing rocks and that they're
very good at throwing rocks andif they start throwing, rocks,

(54:54):
you better run.

Speaker 1 (54:54):
Yes, now I should say something about that.
It can be a playful type ofrock throwing.
Yeah, they just throw pebblesat your tent all night and you
don't get a lot of sleep.
I heard cases and I'll put upsome videos about this on my
YouTube channel.
My YouTube channel is FractalFriend.
One word, or you can just putin my name.

(55:17):
Barb Shoup was telling me, and Irecorded this.
She said what had happenedother times.
They'd been up there.
They were around this campfirearea and pebbles were being
thrown at them.
They didn't hurt or anything,but then a big one came in and
hit their water bottles fartheraway.
Perfect accuracy.
Now, what does that in the woods?

(55:40):
What can throw rocks?
Laterally, horizontally, rockscoming across, not falling down
from somewhere, and hit exactlywhat they're aiming for time
after time again, what does that?
I mean the squirrels don'tthrow rocks, you know.
Deer don't throw rocks, beardon't do that.
So what are you really leftwith?
No one ever sees anythingthrowing the rocks.

(56:03):
By the way, in all theseaccounts, steve, I have never
actually and I've spoken tofriends this has happened to up
in the Rocky Mountain NationalPark near Estes Park.
This was a large rock.
This woman who described thisto me was walking with her
friend in single file.
They weren't that far apart anda rock came exactly equidistant

(56:23):
between them.
She said it was a baseball size.
It knocked the woman downbehind her just from the
proximity.
She wasn't hit by it, it wasjust so close.
She was startled and fell andthey looked and they couldn't
see anything there.
I mean, if humans throw rocksand they're that accurate,
you're going to see them.
Ok, they can't throw rocks thataccurately from way out there

(56:44):
even a pitcher but you're goingto see them because they're not
that far, but they no one eversees what's doing this.
So I heard examples like thishappen even at the place where
we were camping.
The rock throwing is a prettyyeah, that's another piece of
evidence, steve, that's veryconsistent.
And any Sasquatch you want totalk about, they're good at

(57:04):
throwing rocks.

Speaker 2 (57:26):
And if you think about it, the brainpower, the
intelligence it takes to take arock and use it for some kind of
forget about weapon, for somekind of use to an end, to scare
people off, to hurt them out offear.
Whatever is gives you an ideaof the intelligence very
intelligent very controlled.

Speaker 1 (57:39):
Um, vast majority of people aren't hurt by these
rocks, but they come closeenough to make you feel like you
could have been hurt, thoughthere are cases I'm not going to
sugarcoat this there are casesof people getting concussions,
having to go to the hospital.
They never told people whatcaused it.
They didn't think anyone wouldbelieve them.
They just said, well, I trippedon the trail and hit my head.

(58:00):
But what they really describedis you know, the rock came in
and hit your head and they'repretty big rocks and they're
fast.
They're, like you know, pitcherspeed and softball sized and
they can be bigger.
Uh, the one in the flash ofbeauty movie there were fred
roll described.
It was, uh, he said, basketballsized.
If he hadn't moved out of theway at the last minute he kind

(58:22):
of slipped, it would have yeah,it would have taken off his head
, but that was a pretty.
You know, that was a prettyantagonistic encounter.
We'll talk about it moreanother time.
There's a whole range ofencounters, but one other
feature I should say about them,steve, that's very interesting
that people want to watch out,for they're excellent mimics of

(58:45):
any sound they've ever heard.
Tom Powell, an author from theSeattle area has written a book
called the Locals and Others.
He said at the KalispellConference in Montana a year ago
that it's like they have a harddrive in their chest and any
sound they've ever heard theycan reproduce it perfectly.

(59:08):
I mean car doors, tiresscreeching.
Ron Moorhead, at the SierraCamp, described metallic sounds.
A lot of people hear metallicsounds.
It sounds like they're throwingyour pots and pans around but
when you come out nothing's beenmoved and of course they're
very good at imitating you oryour dog barking.

(59:28):
It'll be a little slightly offIf you listen carefully.
People usually say it soundedlike a pretty big owl not a
perfect, but close and they cantrick people sometimes into
thinking it's their relatives orsomething.
And you start walking in thatdirection and get lost.
So they have an excellentmimicry ability, which goes to

(59:52):
your point about theintelligence is they know how to
trick people, if they want to,into you thinking it's a their
animal or it's a relative oryour dog or you.
People have even heardthemselves calling for their dog
coming from the forest nearwhere they live.
When they're inside, the dog'sinside and someone's mimicking

(01:00:14):
them, calling their dog.

Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
Well, it's funny because that's very similar to a
visual camouflage is an audiocamouflage Great.

Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
You know, that's a very good point.
It's a similar sort of thing.
Audio camouflage, visual camgoes together, doesn't it?
Yeah it goes together, and Iknow for some people listening
right now this must seemunbelievable.
You must think that I've goneoff my rocker or something.
But I would just say to peopledon't believe myself or Steve.

(01:00:47):
Do your own research, Get yourown books.
There are plenty of good booksout there on the topic.
Make your own mind up.
Read some of these accountsfrom witnesses you can see them
on Facebook pages MysteriousCreatures, I think, is one of
them and just read theseaccounts and you decide what you
think about this, because Ithink you'll be surprised at the

(01:01:11):
numbers of people that haveencountered these types of
entities.
It's not just Bigfoot, Steve.
There's other types ofcreatures out there that we
don't really even have names for.

Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
So it's funny, before we started this conversation,
simeon and I, today, he hadheard because I had told someone
yesterday that a friend of minein Westchester had seen what he
thought was a Bigfoot-likecreature on his farm.

(01:01:41):
It's 40 or 50 acres, it'spredominantly wooded, and his
daughter had filmed the video ofthis creature and it was in a
place they don't do not usuallygo.
And when you look at the videocan you see what it is?

(01:02:05):
You know, you hear this storyall the time, not really, but
you kind of see somethingstaring back at you and you say
to yourself this is WestchesterCounty in New York.
It's not a gorilla, what thehell is it?
And then, after furtherexploration and I've seen those
pictures as well in New York,it's not a gorilla, what the
hell is it?
And then, after furtherexploration and I've seen those

(01:02:25):
pictures as well they found somestick kind of shelters, yeah,
which I've seen pictures of inother places.
So he really believes it's abig.
Did it look anything like that?
It wasn't that sophisticated,it was just less.

(01:02:48):
It was less, it was on an angleon a tree but just not as many.
Maybe it was in the early stages, so last night we were talking
about it with him and he didn'thave the video with him, or else
I would have showed it to youtoday.
He we looked up where they keeptrack of Bigfoot sightings and

(01:03:12):
strangely enough, there was adocumented Bigfoot sighting in
the exact same place that he saw, allegedly what he saw so he's
not the only one that saw it inthe same town, in the same area
you are talking the bfro site.

Speaker 1 (01:03:32):
I don't know what it is.
It's a research organization.
Yeah, so bfro dot, I think it'sdot net.
Uh, I don't know where helooked.

Speaker 2 (01:03:40):
He showed me he was like somebody else saw it too.

Speaker 1 (01:03:43):
They have a database BFRO Bigfoot Researchers
Organization and people canreport their sightings there and
BFRO will send out trainedinvestigators to talk to you.
They want to make sure theseare real reports.
So, reflecting what you'resaying, steve, I checked the
BFRO database and there was onesighting in Westchester a number

(01:04:04):
of years ago.
In very northern Westchester Idon't know if we're talking
about the same area by a lake.
It was two off-duty policeofficers in a rowboat and they
described what they thought werechimps at the edge of the water
.
They didn't know what else todescribe them as.
Really, I don't know if that'sthe same one.

Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
No, this is about a lake.
I mean, it's very wooded, it'svery hilly, it's dense, where
people don't walk, there are nopaths, and on the edge of this
there's another structure that arenter rents on his property
and they had, for some reason,his daughter was summoned to go

(01:04:48):
over there and she saw it.
Well, there you go, and theseare.
You know his daughter, you knowhe's an educated guy.
He doesn't believe in anything.

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
You know he's an educated guy.
He doesn't believe in anything.
His daughter is a nurse and youknow a mother and it's I know
her well and I she's notsomebody that would even
remotely have a belief aboutsomething like this.
No, I totally get it.
I got to tell you.
I know a nurse out in Idaho whotold me that some of the old
time loggers that she treated inthe hospital that she cared for
from the 40s and 50s when theywere loggers way back, described
seeing creatures moving in andaround trees that they couldn't

(01:05:46):
explain where they went.
They would go around a tree andyou wouldn't see them again.
And they had all said theynever told their bosses at the
logging companies about thisright, because they want to keep
their logging jobs and theywant people to think you're not.
So yes, people experience this,steve, as we know, but they are
just very hesitant.

(01:06:06):
We have to qualify it the wayyou qualify them.
These are people that don'tbelieve it.
I know the whole spiel becauseinitially, when you first hear
this, you think seriously.
But in my case, you know yearsand years of listening to
witnesses describe theirexperiences and looking at the

(01:06:27):
similarities between theirdescriptions and that sense of
shock, thinking well, what couldthis be?
Are there gorillas in this area?
No, we're not in Africa.
Could it be an escaped gorillafrom a circus, a traveling
circus?
This is what goes throughpeople's minds, steve.

Speaker 2 (01:06:47):
But gorillas wouldn't be smart enough to stay hidden.
No, they would engage, theywould look for food, they would
you know.

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
Yeah, they're not going to be hidden, they're used
to it.
If they're from a zoo or acircus, they're used to being
taken care of.
They're going to look for theirmeals?
Yeah, it doesn't fit.
But our minds have all theseways and I'm sure you're
familiar with this.
You know being familiar with,you know the law and dealing

(01:07:16):
with witnesses.
Our minds have all sorts ofways of confabulating
experiences to make them fitwith what we expect to see and
it can distort your memory.
The flashy beauty Bigfootrevealed movie actually goes
into this with psychologicalprofession.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
Visually and audio.
You don't think like you hearsomething that you don't.

Speaker 1 (01:07:36):
Right and you could even forget about it entirely,
unless you had a skilledprofessional going through every
aspect of the memory.
Maybe hypnosis would berequired.
Whatever works, you might havesuppressed the memory.
In the case of Bigfoot-typewitnesses, steve, I have heard
it can happen within 10 or 15minutes of a sighting.

(01:07:57):
You could have forgotten aboutit because your defense
mechanisms in your brain rightare so strong they can literally
suppress things that you don'thave a box to fit that
experience into.
I'm sure this happens withpeople's violent encounters with
criminals too.
It's just so sudden, unexpected, it's very hard to even to

(01:08:20):
what's happened.
And this happens with Bigfootwitnesses.
Sometimes their friend mentionsthat again as soon as they got
home and the memory comes back.
So this is a very challengingsubject to talk about.
We all have a lot of defensemechanisms.
We all have this feeling wedon't want to look like idiots
in front of our peer humans, ourneighbors and colleagues and
friends.
So this affects the witness'sability to talk about what

(01:08:44):
they've experienced and peoplelike you and me that maybe
haven't experienced it directlyprocessing it.
In my case it took years and Iconsider myself an open-minded
person.
You know I did write this bookcalled Opening Minds, even my
mind, steve.
Being graduate school trained,you're naturally skeptical of

(01:09:06):
things and it took, in my case,years to hearing this and going
to conferences, talking topeople and all of a sudden you
have this realization oh F?
They're real.
It really hits you suddenly oneday, talking to witnesses, that
this has been real the wholetime In case.

(01:09:28):
That's my experience, steve.
But again, I encourage peopleto do their own research.
You don't have to believe us.
Come up with your ownconclusions.
If you think these are wild men, as they used to call them,
hairy men or, you know, escapedgorillas, whatever intellectual
alibi kind of works for you, Imean whatever, you have to make
your own mind up about it.

(01:09:49):
But I think if you do yourresearch you're going to find
out thousands and thousands ofwitnesses, sightings just in the
US, native Americandescriptions from hundreds of
different tribes going backhundreds and hundreds of years.

Speaker 2 (01:10:05):
I think that's a great place to leave it.
Can you just give us yourYouTube videos and your websites
or any information, if anybodywould like to follow Sure?

Speaker 1 (01:10:17):
you can find my books on my blog, newcrystalmindcom.
I have all my books and linksfor people to get them if they
want them signed Dark Matter,monsters and Black Swan, ghosts
and other books, planetaryIntelligence and things about
China becoming more aware of howreality really works.

(01:10:37):
So you can go to New CrystalMind.
So you can go to New CrystalMind.
I have a YouTube channel that'svery popular where I post
videos of lectures and I createtalks for the YouTube channel.
You can just look it up undermy name or fractal friend, and I
have a Patreon page you couldlook that up to from my blog

(01:10:59):
Dark Matter Mysteries, great.
So that's how you get incontact with me.
Sure, all right.

Speaker 2 (01:11:03):
Great Well, I thank you so much.
I'm sure we're going to haveother conversations about this
and other things.
I appreciate you coming on thisever-changing podcast about all
different topics, history,ideas, things we're trying to
learn about the world around usthrough a New Yorker's poor,

(01:11:28):
uneducated eye.
Thank you so much talk to yousoon, thank you.