Matt Epp - Canadian Singer-Songwriter - A Chat with Heart - with Christina Martin

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Christina Martin (00:00):
(Theme song - Talk About It - playing in
background) Welcome to A Chatwith Heart Podcast. I'm your
host, Christina Martin. I'm hereto guide us on this journey of
heartfelt and uncensoredconversations with friends I've
met while touring my music inEurope and across North America,
and people who have lifeexperience that I genuinely
believe we can all learn from.
Our personal stories have greatpower to heal, influence, and

(00:24):
inspire. All we have to do isshow up for the conversation.

Theme Song - Talk About It (00:31):
If we just talk about it, we can
shine a light, we can break adark day. If we just talk about
it, we can cut away, we can makea brighter day.

It is hilarious, the things that we
hold on to from our childhood. Ifound this letter that I wrote,
I'm thinking as a schoolproject, dated May 9th 1993. I
thought I'd share that with you.
It's riddled with spellingerrors. Yeah, here we go. Dear
Mr. President. My name isChristina Martin, and I live in

(01:16):
Grand Falls, New Brunswick,Canada. I am 13 years old. And
don't worry, I'm an American.
And I am damned proud to be oneright now. Now, I'm not sure why
I was at that moment. But,anyway. But, I found something
very disturbing one day whilewatching the news. Wait, going

(01:40):
back to already you can see I'ma people pleaser. And it sounds
like I have some disappointingnews to share with the
President. But, I want him toknow that I'm a proud American.
Okay. 1000s of miles away, Icontinue to write here, there
was a little girl in Bosnia, whohad a terrible illness. When

(02:01):
asked to be sent to America(underlined) for help, she was
refused only because she was notinjured externally. The next day
in Bosnia, there was a badlyinjured bear. Naturally, he had
to be sent quickly to America,so he could be helped. So my

(02:22):
point is, there is a little girlin this world, who is probably
dead now, because America wouldnot help her out. Oh, this
turned dark really fast. But, afrigging bear could be shipped
to America? I don't understandhow you could have let this
happen. Maybe I shouldn't blameyou. And I understand that there

(02:44):
are 1000s of other wounded, pagethree, and sick human beings
underlying that are terriblysick. I understand that America
cannot help all of them. But, wehave enough bears on the
American plate. We don't need tohelp the ones that are on the
other side of the globe. Ibelieve that little girl should

(03:06):
have been brought to Americainstead. Whoa. And that little
girl represents 1000s of otherpeople. Keep that in mind
(underlined). And then somestuff scribbled out. I like to
think that America is the bestplace in the world to live. A
place where people can be helpedbecause America is the land of

(03:29):
the free and the home of thebrave. Did I get that right?
Anyway. Let people be proud ofAmerica and lit, I think I meant
to write, let America live up toher standards! Yours truly, I'm
proud to be an AmericanCanadian, Christina Martin.

(03:53):
Wow, I don't really know what tosay about that. But, that's
something I found from my vault.
I wanted to share it with you.
And clearly, I was thinking somedeep thoughts. Not the best at
presenting my case. It couldhave thrown in some research
maybe. I sort of feel bad forthe bear. How about this,

(04:15):
Christina today? Couldn't wehave saved the little girl and
the bear? Can we have found away? I'm just saying. So, today
on A Chat with Heart is anotherone of my dearest friends. He
tracked me down on MySpace backin 2007. Yes, I said MySpace.
Some of my little heartbeatlisteners would have not been

(04:36):
born when MySpace was a thing.
Anyway, Matt has been family forwell over a decade now. I'm a
huge fan of his spirit. He makesme laugh. I can completely be
myself around him. I'm alwayslearning from him, inspired by
his actions to try and make theworld a better place. And I'm a
big fan of his singing andsongwriting abilities. He's

(04:56):
something special, folks. Ibelieve he's on a great path
with heart, awakening,connecting with nature and
something beyond himself. He'salso the host of a new podcast
called Drinking the Water. Checkthat out! Midway through this
episode, you'll hear a snippetof the song Matt and I wrote
here in my home, back in fall of2016. The song is called "Where

(05:18):
the Dark Meets the Light".
TRIGGER WARNINGS. In thisepisode, we talk about COVID
because Matt has recentlyrecovered from it. We talk about
the different opinions peoplehave about getting vaccinated.
Matt is very courageous andshares his experience with
mental illness and suicide. Ithank Matt for this very deep

(05:43):
Chat with Heart. I thought aboutcalling this one the best
'Eppisode' yet, but I reallylove all the chats I've been
having. I'm lucky to call himfriend and soul brother. Here's
my Chat with Heart, with MattEpp.

Matt Epp (06:06):
I'm in!

You are totally in! Don't tell Dale I
said that.

Matt Epp (06:11):
Oh, gross.

Cool, though.
Oh my god, we both joke abouthaving sex with you all the
time.

Matt Epp (06:19):
You and Dale and I would be, I mean, if we were
inclined. If we weren't alreadykind of chosen family, I'm
imagining how much fun we wouldbe if we were a trio.

If we were that free.

Matt Epp (06:32):
If we were that, yeah.

Yeah, I'm a little too crude, but, the idea
is amazing.

Matt Epp (06:39):
I like the idea because it would be the day to
day stuff. I mean, I'm sure we'dyou know, we all have our
liberated parts and our prudishparts. But, can you imagine that
kind of like day to day fun we'dhave like... Are you gonna say
what I thought you're gonna say?

Do you want to move in with us?

Matt Epp (07:04):
So, me and Dale would be starting businesses like our
tortilla chip or spicy tortillachips called 'Chos.

Super fucking hot.

Matt Epp (07:14):
Yeah, super fucking hot. And then, we would probably
get into like raisings, what arethey called? Scobies?

What's a Scoby? I don't know.

Matt Epp (07:25):
Isn't that like one of those aliens that lives in the
water and it changes it intokombucha?

I think it is an alien. I don't know. I've
never seen one. But, yeah, youwill be great parents too.

Matt Epp (07:39):
I think that would be something that the Dale and I
dynamic would bring to the triorelationship. I mean, you will
find our thing.

Oh, we will.
I'm sure. This can be our thing.
Do you want to just move in andthen co-host A Chat with Heart,
and then occasionally, I'll popon and be like segment on
Drinking the Water.

Matt Epp (08:04):
That's right. Yeah.

Your podcast?
I think we do have, it's a kindof marriage.

Matt Epp (08:10):
It's a lifelong commitment, though.

I'm in it for the long haul.

Matt Epp (08:15):
Yeah, I'm here for you, you know, even death won't
do us part.

Good, because it'd be fun to meet up.

Matt Epp (08:23):
Yeah, after we all get toasted on, you know, on a tour
accident or whatever, you know,and the next thing we're like,
we're clearing brush at ourcountry home in heaven.

Yeah.

Matt Epp (08:36):
And making a little fire because it's like always
autumn there.

I just want you to know that I'm not good
with fire. Like I almost starteda brush fire here that it almost
took out our neighborhood. Andluckily, we controlled it as the
fire trucks were arriving. Butyeah, anyway, I hear what you're
saying. And I agree. But, whenDale and I talk about meeting up
in maybe the afterlife if it'spossible, and like, we even have

(09:02):
like a code words if we'reunrecognizable to each other.

Matt Epp (09:05):
Oh, yeah.

But, we also I don't know, but Dale, I can't
speak for him. But, I amcompletely open to the idea that
I really can't count on anythingafter or even in this lifetime.
So, you know, we may never seeeach other again and that's why
it's really important to justappreciate each other.

Matt Epp (09:27):
Yeah, be present now because that's probably all you
got.

Yeah, so Matthew. May I call you Matthew?

Matt Epp (09:38):
You can, you can.
Yeah.

Or George? Do you prefer George?

Matt Epp (09:43):
Don't do it. Don't do George.

But you know, I know your middle name or your
first name. I just can'tremember which it is, is George.

Matt Epp (09:50):
It's my middle name.
You're right.

I watched your Instagram video today and you
opened up. Things have beenrough. What's been going on?

Matt Epp (10:00):
Right, well, I saw coming in the fall, and more or
less, I could just feel thatthis winter was going to be very
difficult because my bucket, youknow, that idea of having a
bucket that's full or empty, andwhat drains you, and what fills
you up. This last year, even asmuch time as I could spend

(10:20):
outside in the sun or,comfortable or positive, or
even, you know, seeing familyand friends, it wasn't enough to
fill me up. And I could tellthat I wasn't going to have the
internal resources to handle thedrain that was coming with the
winter. Yeah, so it was weird tofeel the depression coming and

(10:42):
knowing it was coming and, alsonot knowing what to do about it,
you know. So, I did reach outfor the first time in my life, I
contacted a therapist. I said,you know, I think that things
are going to, or I could feellike the are gonna go bad. But,
this the only person I reallyknew that I was on, like, I

(11:02):
admired this therapist. And so,and she wasn't taking any
people, any clients. So, then Ijust was like, okay, well, I
tried, you know, and I didn'ttry again, I didn't know how I
was going to get there resourcewise, like how he's going to pay
for some. So, I just kind oflike, didn't have that tool

(11:23):
going into this and I plummeted.
And one thing after the other Ithink it's past stuff, I think
it's cyclical things from, youknow, childhood, and growing up
and you know, struggles oftrying to follow your heart, a
path with heart through, findthat through this world. And
then of course, the pandemic,especially the way that this

(11:49):
country and some of the worldhas handled it has been, you
know, added to the grief, ofcourse.

Oh, yeah.

Matt Epp (11:58):
So, you know how I am.
I'm very - a deep feeling I cansort of take on the feelings of
those around me and theenvironment I'm in. So, one
thing after the othercontributed to it, I guess. And
I ended up in a place of justdespair, and not be able to know
how to lift out of it. Eventhough I was grateful for a lot

(12:18):
of things. And even though Icould make a list of all the
stuff I'm grateful for, itwasn't helping, and I couldn't
fill myself up. And then I gotCOVID just before Christmas,
which was ...

Christina Mart (12:33):
Congratulations?
Is there a little bit of like,okay, well, that's over with?

Matt Epp (12:38):
100%. Of course, it's a thing that people are afraid
of. But, I think that we'veturned it into a whole thing
that is not because there'snothing evil inherently about
something that the earth issending to balance itself,
herself. And so this happens, ofcourse in nature all the time,
and we don't call it evil. Wedon't call it awful and horrible

(13:01):
and evil and send this negativeenergy towards something that's
trying to keep the balance oflife for all things. In fact,
let's say we assumed that thisCoronavirus was natural in a lot
of ways. It's just coming fromnatural law, like we've pushed
the planet so far. And the onlyway that we're going to be able

(13:23):
to exist into the future ashuman beings because we don't
contribute very much. And so theonly way we'll be able to go
forward is if we start to learnto live in balance. We needed
this lesson. But, really, it'sbringing healing. And there's
some perspectives that it'shelping us in a lot of ways. And

(13:44):
it's a growing pain, if we lookat it that way. And to be
honest, my personal experiencewith it was I probably would
have healed from it faster had Inot been unable to emotionally
or spiritually, I don't evenknow how to say it. I've never I
haven't felt that kind ofdepression for a long, long

(14:04):
time. I think I could havehealed faster had I not been in
that emotional place.

But, when you are down like that is when the
undealt with issues in your lifefrom your past, things that
maybe we didn't give theattention to are liable to creep
in and take over, even if someof them are just stories that
we've made up over the years.
You know, maybe they don'treally exist, but maybe they do
exist. I mean, it depends.

Matt Epp (14:31):
Right. Like they talked about in the Four
Agreements, the idea that ifsomebody said you're stupid when
you're a kid, if you agreed withit, then you made that, that's
an agreement and you've made anattachment to that idea that
you're stupid. But, you're not,but, either way you've made that
part of your identity becauseyou had to agree to it. We've

(14:54):
got all this subconscious stuff.
Some negative patterns that saythat came from my upbringing,
like when I was a kid, speakingof depression, you know, when I
was young there had been amoment where I tried to kill
myself and take my life and, andI couldn't see a way out, right.
And what had happened for me wasthat one of my younger brothers

(15:19):
walked into the room, just as Iwas about to step off this
larger place and had the noosearound my neck and everything.
And I couldn't see my way out ofwhat I was dealing with. And I
was a teenager, and it was, youknow, there just wasn't an

(15:41):
escape, or I didn't even know ofa place that wasn't full of this
kind of tough stuff. But, mybrother showing up was a
miracle. Little brother openingthe door and seeing me and even
though he was a little kid,understanding it bursting into
tears, me realizing that I wouldgive my life for him, I would do

(16:01):
anything to make sure that Ididn't hurt my family like that,
my siblings. And so, of course,that saved my life. And I took
that noose off. And, I knew Iwould never do that, no matter
how much I felt like that,again. I realized that my life
could, and that I could hurtother people in that way. And

(16:26):
so, there's been many times inmy life, that my music, or my
interactions with humans, hascome back to me. And I think
that because it's a sensitiveplace in my life, potentially,
that's why let's say theuniverse or God or whatever,
allows that message to get to memore. Potentially, I know better

(16:49):
now. But, I haven't really donewhatever work it takes to really
truly deal with that. So, when Ilose my positive charge, and I
go down to the most basic stuff,I still go back down there and
it's like, oh, that's my oldfriend where I'm a victim or my

(17:09):
critical self that reallyberates me and, also others and
is impatient and is just despairand becomes hateful and angry.
You want to parent yourself, youwant to say like okay, I know
better. I need to comfort myhurting inner child. You know,

(17:33):
that kind of thing. But, whenyou have nothing left... I want
to tell you something cool thathappened, though, because I
can't explain it.

You know what, I don't have time. This has been
a great episode of Chat withHeart with Matthew George.

Matt Epp (17:57):
Let's just leave it there.

No, I'm just kidding. Of course I want to
hear.

Matt Epp (18:04):
I want a cliffhanger.
Will Matt make it through?

Yeah. Join us in episode 53, in year 2024.
Please tell me and this is onething I'm working on is
derailing my guests. So.

Matt Epp (18:23):
I think it's great if you especially if it's not
someone like me that getsderailed so willingly. I had a
very cathartic heavy grief, cry,and series of cries, sing to
your song Stay with Me.

Oh, thank you.

Matt Epp (18:41):
And that's for a song and the spiritual environment
that you brought. And I'm sureyou brought that because it's in
what you did. You guys what youcreated there, the song and the
recording and every intentionyou put into it. That's not just
me that's going to feel that wayand feels that way.

I think it might just to you, actually.

Matt Epp (19:02):
Well, thank you for that huge effort that you did
just for me.

I did just for you. I think it's a reflection
of how even though that song wastechnically written a couple
years ago, how relevant, is itnow? I feel like it reflects a
lot of what well, definitelywhat I'm, I really have
experienced in the last coupleof years. So, maybe I did write
it for you though, or for all ofus.

Matt Epp (19:28):
I think people that are dedicated to this work,
which is a spiritual work,songwriting. It's a channeling
thing, regardless of if we thinkabout it that way or not. It is
that way. I know that somethings that I did, and I know
several people (yourselfincluded) where the work that we
did coming into this needed tobe there. And it was prophetic

(19:49):
because it's not that we havethis extra spiritual gift or
anything but it is built intothe work we do. And so, with
that song, it created thisspiritually safe environment for
my heavy, heavy, heavy heldgrief and sadness to come out.
And it was a grief about thedestruction, and all of the

(20:11):
loss, and all of the loss of thelife that is us, you know, and
those aren't separate from us.
You know, every time thathappens every time there's a
huge fire, every time there's anew part of the ocean that dies,
and so on. All of this stuff inthe world that's happening is
actually happening to us.

Yeah.

Matt Epp (20:32):
Yeah, it's happening to us and we are doing it.
There's this really hard timethat we have with existing,
especially when we're becomingmore aware of it. And that
sadness was already there forme, but that song allowed me to
feel it. And I think we have toaccept that sometimes we're

(20:54):
going to be at the very bottom,and then sometimes things are
going to change, even when itseems impossible. And that's
what I want to tell you about. Iwas experiencing this being down
and being, you know, sick,whatever, just having a flu,
that's how it felt just like,you know, a bit delirious and

(21:14):
sweats and whatever. And I justdidn't think I could go on. And
I didn't know what that meant.
You know, it wasn't the physicalpart. It wasn't the COVID, it
was life. So, and then when Igot better, my friend Isaac
Murdoch gave me some medicine.
Like, from these forests aroundthis land here that he had

(21:39):
assembled.

Where's here?

Matt Epp (21:41):
Just Ontario. His traditional lands, by Supreme
river first nation where hepicked it, but he gave me some
medicine. And so I was drinkingthat medicine to help me heal.
And I don't know if it was thatstuff, or it was the prayers or
is the fact that like, he wasthere for me and checking in all
the time. But, when I got betterfrom physically started healing,

(22:05):
it was only a few days later,and something huge just
happened. And it just happenedon a Friday. Like before that, I
had less than nothing. I didn'tknow how to go on. But,
something spiritually happened.
It's almost like I woke upagain.

Is there any point did you surrender or like
just kind of go like oh?

Matt Epp (22:27):
Just accept it. Yeah.
There was that advice had beengiven to me. So, it was
consciously in my head to justaccept. I didn't have any
revelation or any aha moment. Ialmost think that COVID brought
it and it came to me as a realgift. And it came in right at
this beautiful time. I've heardpeople that are a bit more

(22:48):
ethereal and kind of out there.
Talk about that this is comingas something that is supposed to
free trapped souls and it'scoming as a self healing power
kind of thing and who knows,right? But, my experience was, I
was like, did that come with it?

Hmm.
Interesting.

Matt Epp (23:10):
Was I just liberated from all of this fucking
bullshit like fear mongeringthat has happened for two years
around the world where we'resupposed to be afraid of this
Boogeyman. But, now that I'vegot, it's come into my life, and
I can be thankful for my naturalbody's immune system. You know,

(23:33):
what it can do and and how itcan welcome it and how it can
make me stronger. And, did thatjust give me a huge lesson with
everything else I'm strugglingwith?

You had mentioned, you know, the
childhood stuff, and why do wehang on to some of those things?
I think the reason is becausethe people who said those things
to us, were the people that wewere so attached to, we loved
and looked up to so much in ourlives. They were like gods to
us. And they said it and it wasso hurtful.

Matt Epp (24:07):
Right because you trusted them.

And we were so young and forming like this idea
of like who we thought we were.
And so, when anything else inour lives maybe came up that had
to deal with like the samething. My father isn't around
anymore. I don't feel like I'mbeing disrespectful to share
stories about him. But, when Iwas 13 or 14, I spent summers
with my dad in Trois-Rivières.

(24:31):
He was hiding. This is a longerstory, I'll have to get into in
another episode. Call theHeartbeat hotline, if you want
to hear more about my father'sstory, and my story, I guess as
his daughter. But, he paid formy riding lessons when I went to
stay with him in the summer. Andso, at the stables where I was
spending a lot of time there, Ibefriended like the owners and

(24:53):
my instructor and we got reallyclose and they invited me
overnight. And they startedgiving me more responsibility
with the horses and I was so inlove with the whole experience.
And, they invited me to stayover sometimes for two or three
nights and I would train thehorses during the day with my
instructor Isabel and then havedinners at night with the family
that own the stables. And so oneday, I came home to my father's

(25:18):
apartment, after being away forprobably two or three nights,
and I was so happy. And as ateenager, like I wasn't very
happy for lots of other reasons.
So when my dad saw me so happyand talking about this
experience and the family... Ihad seen him be angry, and I
knew that he could be angrytowards other people and he

(25:40):
would tell me about them. And itwas a very inappropriate
relationship, he would confidein me and say all these things,
negative things about mostlywomen in his life. And, I
remember coming in and tellinghim how my last days were and
how happy it was, and, then hejust started screaming at me.
And he called me an ungratefulbitch. And he said, he paid

(26:01):
these people to like hang outwith me, and he paid for my
lessons and all this and he justwas so angry. I know where that
comes from in him. And I knowthat he had shit he didn't deal
with. But, that experience wasone of many I had with my father
that really impacted me. I mean,in some ways, I'm grateful for

(26:22):
it, because it made me a verysensitive, conscientious person.
You know, I didn't want to hurthis feelings, even though he was
out of line. And it's ridiculoushow out of line he was, but, it
did wake me up in some ways,even though it really, really
hurt. So, what I'm trying tosay, though, is that I think the
aha moment was really that thosepeople that we care about the

(26:44):
most in our lives when they saysomething that maybe isn't true,
or maybe it is, I don't know,but like, we hang on to that for
so long. And we believe it aboutourselves. And that's where the
hard work comes. I still have,you know, kind of moments like
that that I'm working on.

Matt Epp (27:06):
Yeah, but, I'm glad you are because you deserve to
flourish. Being a loving person,you want that for everyone, for
everyone to have that chance andto have that choice.

Yes, oh my goodness.

Matt Epp (27:22):
You have to choose it, right. And there's a lot of
people that almost don't havethat choice. I mean.

That's true.

Matt Epp (27:27):
So, okay, let's boil down what we've just talked
about.

Okay, okay.
Let's boil it down. Yeah.

Matt Epp (27:32):
Let's boil it down.
You were like okay, days kind ofgot fucked up from day one.

Yeah.

Matt Epp (27:37):
Day two - more fucking up. Day three - consider ending
it all, learn that lesson thehard way, commit to staying
alive. Day four - you are nowfour days old. You know what, so
in my personal story that youhad asked about, I do have a

(28:00):
generally a positive outlookbecause I do fight for my heart.
I fight for that child inside ofme, that pure who I am. I fight
for that. I always did. And, Ialways arranged my life in my
circumstance and tried to makemy choices the best way that I
could so that I gave that kid achance. I love little kids. I'm

(28:25):
the oldest of seven kids. I felta responsibility to them whether
or not I carried it out in thebest way. I did my best. I did
my best to try to be there forthem when I could.

As a sibling?

Matt Epp (28:39):
As a sibling, yeah.
And only have certain capacityright but I'm able to somehow
almost separate the grown Mattfrom that little kid Matthew,
you know the one that was reallysensitive was the first kid
around, and was always picked onand move around and stuff like
that. I can still like care forthat kid and be like there's

(28:59):
something magical there and tryto fight for that inside my life
now. Yeah, all of that to sayand to kind of lift this
conversation into a reallypositive future, building
beautiful direction is just thatthere's some huge gift that came

(29:20):
out and it happened for me in away that I couldn't have
anticipated it. And so, I justwant to say that as even like a
little note of hope on this Chatwith Heart you know.

People need that. People need to know.

Matt Epp (29:35):
Yeah, where you don't see your way out.

Yeah, just wait around. Please just wait
around, the shift is coming.

Matt Epp (29:41):
Yeah.

Song (29:49):
(Song - Where the Dark Meets the Light - playing in
background)

So Matt, I'm about to read a card from the
game called Fluster.

Matt Epp (29:59):
So far, I love Fluster.

Yeah, Fluster is a conversation game created
by Walker and Devon, who are twofriends, who actually are going
to be on the podcast soon. And Ilove conversation games. I
always play them and when Ifound this I had to reach out to
them. Anyway, you know what, mylittle Heartbeat listeners, you
can check out Fluster onwww.flustergame.com and use my

(30:24):
promo code, Christina15.

Matt Epp (30:28):
Christina15. This is so professional.

And if it's not that obvious, that's to get
15% off of the game.

Matt Epp (30:35):
Off of Christina.

Yeah, they also have an SEXpansion pack.
Oh, guess what you're gettingfor Christmas?

Matt Epp (30:42):
Expansion Pack from Fluster!

No, you're getting the SEXpansion pack.

Matt Epp (30:47):
Oh, nice.

Yeah. So, it's a thing.

Matt Epp (30:51):
Is it a real thing?

I don't have it yet because I don't. I know
Dale's not gonna play it me.

Matt Epp (30:57):
That's what me and you will do in our three way
marriage.

Yeah.

Matt Epp (31:01):
That'll be our thing.
Me and Dale will the Scobies and'Chos,

You and I will play that Fluster, but, the
SEX-pansion.

Matt Epp (31:09):
With the SEX-pansion pack. Yeah. Since you and him
have the sex, me and you willhave at least a conversation
about it.

That's right.
Dale and I don't talk. You getthat side of me.

Matt Epp (31:22):
That's eight o'clock.

There's some great cards in here. I mean,
there's 100 in the main pack,so. Okay, here's one - If you
had the chance to meet any ofyour relatives past or future,
who would you choose?

Matt Epp (31:38):
Past or future?

Yeah like, I just thought of one. I would,
apparently I had a great auntCorinne. She died of breast
cancer. And I have one of herrings. And I'm just curious
because I was a big fan of mygrandmother. And my Great Aunt
Sue, big influences on me,strong women. I would have liked

(32:02):
to have met this Corinne Womanand find out more about her.

Matt Epp (32:08):
Well, I like your answer. You know what, there's
so little information that hascome down to my family about any
of the people. But, somebodytold me one time they could see
kind of into the spirit worldaround people and see some of
the spirits that accompany you.
And, I had a conversation withsomeone that could see a
grandfather type of person. But,it wasn't my immediate

(32:35):
grandfather. It was a man, anolder man that was, as far as he
could tell was one of myancestors. But, that is very
invested in is kind of like oneof my, lack of better words,
because I don't know how thisworks, guardian spirits. And is
guiding and sort of wishing mewell and potentially

(33:00):
orchestrating some things. So,whoever that man is, that's in
my past as an ancestor that iskind of showing up around me and
is a bit of a protector, I wouldlike to meet that guy.

Okay. Yeah, that sounds cool. All right.
Here's another Fluster question.
What's the most romantic thingyou've ever done Matthew? It
doesn't say Matthew in the card.
Wouldn't that be great though ifyou had your own sponsored card?

Matt Epp (33:34):
It always says your name. I am getting kind of tired
of this.

I'm gonna see if I can get my website put on
one of their cards.

Matt Epp (33:40):
Right. When you listen to Christina Martin song, Stay
with Me, how hard do you cry?
Little, medium, or very verywet?

That's a good one! We should talk to Fluster
about incorporating a multiplechoice pack, a multi choice pack
and they'll have our faces onit. Oh, we could work with them
on it. They're gonna either lovethis idea or just curse the day
that I reached out to them.

Matt Epp (34:07):
Yeah. That's right.

What's the most romantic thing you've ever
done?

Matt Epp (34:10):
Did you hand picked this one for me? Because it's a
tough one. But,

Is it really?
Probably because I wanted totalk about the most romantic
thing I've done. So.

Matt Epp (34:20):
I can't wait to hear that. You know what? I'm not
having one thing perfectlyjumped into my mind at the
moment. But, I will describe areally beautiful moment that was
potentially one of the romantic,most romantic things. And again,
I love this story because itdoesn't in fact, lead to sex

(34:44):
because there's such good ones.
There's such good ones that areinvolved with like, with
lovemaking and in this romanticway, and I love those kinds of
stories too, obviously.

Sex does sell.

Matt Epp (35:00):
So, a couple years ago, I went and did this writing
month down in Mexico and and Imet a woman when I was in the
ocean, right. Every day, I'dwait in the shade by the ocean,
and I would write songs there.
And I had to write a song everyday. That was my commitment to
myself, so I could be helpful asI was recharging. And so I met

(35:23):
this woman, we're just floatingin the waves. And we floated
there for a couple of hours justtalking Spanish and English. And
it was really nice. And thenafterwards, she cut her foot on
something, I helped her and sheleft and then I went to write my
song. And I kind of just tookthis conversation with this
person I really connected withher, right. So, I wrote this

(35:44):
love song, imagining thisbeautiful future with, which can
happen in a split second for amen's like you're checking out
your groceries or whatever,somebody reaches for the celery,
and you look at this person andthere's this brief moment, and
you see your future and allthat. And then five seconds
later, you see someone else andyou see your future with them.

(36:05):
That can happen.

Is that what's happening in your mind?

Matt Epp (36:10):
Sometimes that happens. I think it's maybe more
like that for younger men. And,I don't know what it's like for
anyone else. But, in thismoment, I was just I kind of let
my imagination sweep me away,right?

Well, and you're a songwriter.

Matt Epp (36:26):
And I am in songwriting.

You are in the business of storytelling.

Matt Epp (36:29):
Exactly. So, I made this song that basically, in the
song we've fallen, we've bothfallen in love, you know. It's
very much like making love underthe moonlight kind of ocean, I
don't know, Spanish song. Itsounds like Beach Boys and all
this stuff. And I just went allthe way into it as if it was a

(36:51):
real thing, right? And then I amso happy that I had this, that I
made it through this song. I wasleaving the beach, and this
woman was walking back to thebeach. She saw me on the road,
and she's like, "Oh, hi, Matt.
Did you write your song?" And Isaid, "Yeah, I made a song". And
she said, "Well, what is itabout?" And I said, "well, it's
actually, it's a love song. Andit's about you". She's like,

(37:12):
"What! can I hear it?" And so Isaid, Well, sure, like I was, I
wasn't embarrassed, because Ididn't know this person at all
right? We went to the beach, inthis beautiful little nook with
the waves lapping up at our toesand it was getting dark, and the
full moon was rising, and it wasenormous. I was looking at my

(37:32):
little paper, and she's got thephone light on my paper so I can
read the lyrics and sing herthis song. And it was one of
their most romantic littlemoments where there wasn't
really a romance happeningbetween us, but there was one of
these beautiful connections. Andthen we were both in a place of
being like, recently out of arelationship that was loaded

(37:55):
with things that were difficult,a lot of hurt and emotional
turmoil. And so neither of uswere kind of in that space. And
we just lay there under thisenormous full moon with the
ocean at our feet in the sandand just lay there and talked
about life, and love, andrelationships and stuff for
hours. And I think that was oneof the most romantic things that

(38:16):
I can remember and, just giftedme with hope from my heart for
the future. And, also, and I'mleft with this song now. So,
it's called Architect Eyes. Ifwe foster our imagination, then
we can use it a lot easier. Andit can be used a lot easier. You

(38:37):
know, from I think the, I guessthe other realms, like the
spiritual places where messagesneed to come through to the
people. And music does open theheart and things like that. You
know, like we wrote that onesong together that you released
and that was beautiful. And wealso recorded that Tom Petty and

(39:00):
Stevie Nicks song, Stop Dragginmy Heart Around, which I totally
love these things. And I alsoknow, I just know in my heart
that we have more collaborationto do.

I hope so.
Well, you're moving in with us Iguess. So.

Matt Epp (39:21):
I'm gonna have to pull my weight somehow.

How do you feel about wet basements?

Song (39:27):
(Song - Where the Dark Meets the Light - playing in
background)

Matt Epp (39:38):
I've got a number of friends that have chosen the
same as I to keep our bodiesbasically not get this COVID
vaccine stuff, right?

Yeah, I have friends, lots of friends that
made the same choice.

Matt Epp (39:57):
Yeah, so there's a lot of people I think the cool thing
is that if we were in eachother's shoes, we'd probably do
the same thing as other personsdoing. If anybody was in my
total experience, they wouldchoose the same as I as well.
So, we have to have thatcompassion with each other
because we do all have differentideas and different perspectives

(40:18):
and needs, physically andotherwise. And, reasons as well.
Just like values and whatever.
So, I think that was anotherpart of it. It was just feeling
so much hate, viscerally comingfrom people that love me before.
This is just my personal thing.

Oh, I've heard this from friends of mine, too.
What is up with that? Like, it'sjust seems like a huge waste of
energy. And the completeopposite of what we should be
practicing. I feel like itshould be a choice.

Matt Epp (40:54):
Yeah.

What I really am so heartbroken about is the
aggression from the vaccinatedtowards, well, any aggression,
really, I mean, either sides,but there are clearly two sides.

Matt Epp (41:07):
For me, the hardest part was just seeing that
because I didn't think for asecond that it would happen like
that, you know, the people thatare important in my life, even
somebody who's been kind of likea mentor, to me, and then,
having a conversation and justhearing this opinion, because
I've you know, this is the Ihaven't really talked about it

(41:30):
in any kind of public waybecause I'm just like, what? So,
a lot of people that in fact Iwork with, that I've
collaborated with, that are inmy family, that are my friends,
and that I look up to andeverything, there's a number of
people in there that havedecided in this time to make
their public...

To just be like, "Hey, you're not getting
this, I don't like you aroundme".

Matt Epp (41:55):
Like, 'you deserve to die'.

Whoa.

Matt Epp (41:58):
Like that kind of stuff, right? And that's as a
public thing. And I'm like, man,but anyway, I don't want to go
far into that. But, that's whenwe're thinking about how to move
forward in a beautiful way, towalk a path with heart, I just
want to say that around thattopic, that I feel full grace,

(42:19):
with everybody's decisions. AndI'm just trying to encourage
because I want to say myexperience as somebody that
physically didn't need it and,didn't want it or trust it or
whatever. That's my experience,but it's more or less because I
wanted to just like try tolisten to the earth and not push

(42:39):
back anymore. I wanted to acceptwhat the earth needed to do. If
it was my time, it was my time,I was okay. And that was where
it came from was about like thebig picture for our children,
for your children, for yourchildren's children. That's
where I'm coming from. And Ijust want to say like, I have a
big heart. I have a lot of love.

You do.

Matt Epp (43:00):
And what I want to do is I want to be a beautiful
contribution to the world that'sgoing to serve as much as I can.
I'm trying to serve with mylife.

Yeah, you always have, ever since the day
I met you. It breaks my heartbecause you have such a big
heart to know that your hearthas been broken by people that
you love, because of this. Yeah,I'm so sorry to hear that,
buddy. Like, when you moving inwith us? I'm gonna shift the

(43:35):
mood temporarily. If you had tochoose between dropping a
friendship with me or Dale,maybe you're at gunpoint or...

Matt Epp (43:45):
I have to drop you or Dale?

If I had to choose, I would choose Dale, but
I was friends with you beforeDale so I think you should pick
me. I am a fan of Dale.

Matt Epp (43:58):
You know what, I'm a fan of Dale too. But, you know
what?

What?

Matt Epp (44:02):
If I had to choose and I think Dale will understand
this because Dale and I, we kindof have a quiet we have like a
quiet understanding.

Don't touch my woman!

Matt Epp (44:19):
Oh, that's yeah.

You've never touched me.

Matt Epp (44:23):
That's true.

You didn't even try.

Matt Epp (44:26):
That's true. And I mean, let's make this public
right now.

Yeah, we've never done it.

Matt Epp (44:34):
Never done it.

We really thought about it. We've never
acted on it. Dale thought aboutit too.

Matt Epp (44:44):
We have a special thing. And so do Dale and I, we
do have a special thing. And Ithink that I'd have to choose
you like I just would becauselike you're such a..

Go on.

Matt Epp (45:00):
I can't believe you made me do this.

This episode or just this question?

Matt Epp (45:04):
That question. That's an evil thing to do. Dale, I
love you so much. 'Chos forever.
And even though,

See ya later, sayonara baby!

Matt Epp (45:16):
What do I say? I have to say I chose Christina.

Yeah.

Matt Epp (45:21):
I'll probably regret it, Dale.

We'll see.

Matt Epp (45:24):
We'll see.

Okay, so you mentioned that you live in your
van. And my question is, how isthat? And is this one of the
annoying questions people askyou about living in a van?

Matt Epp (45:39):
No, I think people are very excited about it, in
general, because it has sort ofreached the public.

Oh, yeah, man.

Matt Epp (45:49):
Hashtag, anyone on Instagram has seen the picture
of the back doors open. And thegirl with her bikini butt.

Oh, I didn't see that.

Matt Epp (45:58):
No, every single picture of Van life is the same
thing where the boyfriend thathas a, you know, long hair up in
a man bun, takes a picture witha $4,000 camera of his
girlfriend's bum.

That's right.

Matt Epp (46:12):
Laying on the bed, overlooking some water.

Can we recreate that when you come
visit us? I've got bikinis. Idon't have a tanned ass. But,

Matt Epp (46:22):
Can you just lend me one of the bottoms? And yeah,

Oh, yeah.
Okay.

Matt Epp (46:27):
I'll be the guy. I'll do a guy thing. So, it'll be a
bit of a spoof but, you know.

I'll oil you up.

Matt Epp (46:34):
You can put your hair up in a man bun. And, look
wistfully out over the water.

Yeah, absolutely. Okay.

Matt Epp (46:43):
But, my reality of it, my experience in reality is,
it's far more diverse, acrossage, and economic background,
and reason. And, you know, like,cultural, and whatever. It's
amazing. When I drive around,and you actually live with

(47:05):
people and find, see otherpeople doing this, there's a lot
of it where people just want tobe by themselves. They're not
photographing every single thingwith expensive drones and
whatever. And there's old peoplethat have done this forever.
There's people that you know,decided to be kind of smart
about the way that everything'sinflated right now, sell their

(47:27):
stuff, get rid of it.

Simplify, strip it down.

Matt Epp (47:30):
Simplify, strip it down, because you're gonna get
smashed by the reckoning.
Economically, that's comingaround the bend. And for me, you
know, like it was necessary, sothat I could always be with my
daughter and take her out and beout of the city. And, you know,
because her mom's in the city.

(47:50):
And so, to keep thatrelationship and everything
smoothed, I needed to be able tobe in the city, but you could
never afford it with as amusician in Toronto, especially
without be able to work with youknow the COVID stuff. So, it
worked out great. I made abeautiful spot. I've never been
a carpenter or anything likethat with trades. But, I learned

(48:13):
a lot, building this van. It'sactually really cozy and really
beautiful. And I had some helpand learn from everyone that
helped me and nine months of theyear, it's like a dream. I got
beautiful lighting and acomfortable bed. And you know,
and I knew I was going to livein there. I knew is going to be
cold. I knew I was going to bein there full time. So, I

(48:37):
prioritize the right things,right. So, I have a beautiful
bed space. And then in littlekitchen and all that stuff. And
I wish I had some good pictures.
But, I'm just not like thatinvested in my Instagram
branding.

Going back to, because you said you had water
in the van. Tell my littleheartbeat listeners about
Drinking the Water, your newpodcast, which I love and I
highly recommend. I'm guessingthat part of the reason that you
started your podcast because youdo have a lot to say, you're
very smart, well read, worldly.
You've traveled all over theworld. You're very sensitive to

(49:13):
what's going on in the world andaround you and within you. And
it's a place where you can sharewhat you're passionate about and
kind of evolve. As you continueto evolve, your opinions evolve.
It's a place you can have thisshared exchange with people you
admire, who have importantthings to say that maybe they

(49:33):
align with how you feel, but youdon't feel like you're seeing
the stories out there in theworld. Well, Drinking Water is a
place. I'm going to send you thebill for this advertisement.
You're my new sponsor.

Matt Epp (49:51):
This podcast brought to you by another podcast! The
reason why I made that podcastwas because I am so inspired by
so many people. I sit down withthese people or I'm on the phone
with these people, these arepeople that have just blown my
mind and my heart and my lifewide open with, with their

(50:12):
insights, with their mentorship,with the things I'm learning
from them and the experienceswe've gone through, I feel like
there's something nourishing,there's something that shows the
connectedness of all things. Andthat's why I chose to call it
Drinking the Water. Because itwas something life giving, and
something that brought us backto our nature, whereas drinking

(50:35):
the Kool Aid, you know, "buyingsomething that wasn't true".
Drinking the Kool Aid is likefalling for the false guru and
the cult leader and the liesthat are being told to
manipulate us for the benefit offew. But, drinking the water,
the water is what we're all madeout of. The water is what

(50:56):
connects us. And so when wedrink water together, it's
almost like a physical form ofprayer. And, sharing prayer and
entering a physical or spiritualspace. Drinking the Water,
that's what it means to me. AndI wanted to bring those kinds of
nourishing conversations andthose people that are dedicated

(51:19):
to serving, and I keep using theword nourishing, flourishing,
and quenching the thirst ofpeople that are trying to grow.

Hey, my thirst was quenched when I was
listening to you, and in thefirst episodes, with your guests
who, correct me if I'm wrong,but you have collaborated with
your guests, all of your guests.
And so there's something magicalas a creator myself listening,
it was so beautiful andinspiring, I could really feel
and get a real sense for therewas some energy in the

(51:54):
conversation that reminded me ofthat, it is so important to
honor that, when we're triggeredto create something when we have
an idea, the act of creatingsomething and honoring that
trigger. And then followingthrough and making something, to
do some kind of good. Listeningto you and your guests speak on

(52:18):
Drinking the Water, reminded meof the power, the magic of just
that process and that exchangeand I could hear the admiration
you had for your guests.

Matt Epp (52:33):
There's so many different ways that you can get
to intimacy, you know, becausewe were joking about before.
He's like, Oh, yeah, we've neverdone it. Just so you know, out
there. You know, like we'recomfortable with each other not
because of that, but, we do havean intimate relationship.

Michael from Germany (52:57):
Oh, but still, it's above close. Just to
clarify though.

Matt Epp (53:02):
Oh, my god. Yeah.

Maybe people don't get that. That intimacy
can be something that's notsexual.

Matt Epp (53:12):
I think we've all struggled with, sometimes
misinterpreting that, where youfeel such a close connection
with someone that you kind ofassume that it has to go that
way.

No, I agree with you. Although I've had a
different experience. Myexperience has always been
completely naive. And like, Oh,this is my buddy. And then, you
know, gotten to a point where,oh, man, like, I really don't
feel this way with this person.
But I have to say something andthen it changes the dynamic.
But, for the most part, all ofmy guy friends, actually, all of
my guy friends are, it's beenjust platonic. And but,

(53:49):
intimate. We very close. I'mdrawn to people who, gender
aside, people who are open tohaving, you know, and I'm not
saying that you need to tell meevery single thing about your
life, but please do, especiallyin the podcast, and then I'll

(54:11):
sell it off the sanctions. Yeah,but, there's at least a
willingness to be open andhonest and transparent.

Matt Epp (54:24):
Yeah. That's such a beautiful gift. And we actually,
I'm not sure about you, whatyour experience has been because
it sounds like you've had a lotmore of that experience. I've
had relationships that had beenintimate that developed into...

Like, into a friendship?

Matt Epp (54:43):
Yeah, where that love for that person that connects
with that person, at some pointthat was explored or something
that can happen. It doesn'talways happen, but it's nice
when we see examples of peoplethat truly love each other. It
doesn't need to be that thing.

Yeah, it could be. It could be. Matt, where can
my little heartbeat listenersfind you and keep up with your
incredible projects?

Matt Epp (55:18):
I spend more of my time on the socials actually
recently, but that's generallywhere I do the, where I'm
sharing. Like, where I'mactually sharing from my heart
and connecting is Instagram anda little bit of Facebook. Like
sometimes I do lives on their.
Mattepp.com does exist. You cansign up for the newsletter,

(55:39):
which then you get news aboutnew albums.

Thanks for that. And Drinking the Water as
well. People want to check outthat podcast.

Matt Epp (55:47):
Thank you for having me on A Chat with Heart.

Thank you for segwaying and wrapping this up,
so I didn't have to. Clearly, Ihave issues with saying goodbye
to you.

Matt Epp (55:58):
We've had long conversations before, so.

I mean, it's yeah. It's actually only
natural. Thank you for sharingso much of your story, really.

Heartbeat Hotline (56:09):
(Theme song - Talk About It - playing in
background) Welcome to theHeartbeat Hotline
1-902-669-4769. I'm the host ofA Chat with Heart podcast,
Christina Martin, and I'm soexcited you called. Leave me
your question, suggestion forthe podcast, or a comment about

(56:29):
this episode. Please be awareyour message may be used on the
podcast and social media. Tellme your name, where you're
calling from. And it's alsofine, if you want to remain
anonymous. Thanks for listening.
Have a great fucking day!

Michael from Germany (56:47):
Hi, Christina. This is Michael from
Germany, from Berlin and I justlistened to your Chat with Heart
with Dale. And it was great tohear both of your voices. And I
must say, I never heard Dalespeak so many words, then in
that, yes, roughly 50 minutes orso. So, I'm sure he loves you a

(57:09):
lot. I know Dale and you now for11 years and Dale always, of
course, is the quiet one. And soI'm glad you got him to speak a
little bit more. And again, it'sgreat podcast and keep on doing
what you're doing and Icertainly hope to see you again
soon and listen to both of yourwonderful music. And well, I'm

(57:33):
reading two books now - TheNight Watchman is Louise Erdrich
book, it's very good, and HarlemShuffle by Colson Whitehead,
it's also good. I wouldrecommend those to your audience
and you keep on going and have anice day. And hope to hear from

(57:56):
you again soon. Bye Bye.

I love that you call the heartbeat hotline,
Michael. Last time we sawMichael was at the International
Folk Alliance conference andMusic Festival in New Orleans,
just as the pandemic took a turnfor the worse. I first met
Michael in Nashville, Tennesseeback in 2011, at the Americana
festival. I saw his name in alist of attendees for the

(58:22):
festival. The list said thatMichael worked for radio in
Berlin. And I'd been interestedin touring in Germany, getting
ready for a tour. And so Iinvited Michael for a chat. So,
we met in a hotel lobby and Itold him about host concerts.
Michael and his wife, Birgitta,held their first house concert

(58:47):
with Dale and I in their Berlincondo. We were very sad when
Birgitta passed away from cancersuddenly in April of 2015. Since
then, Michael has continued tohost house concerts, travel, and
enjoy live music. And currently,he is volunteering at a school

(59:08):
and an online radio station.
Can't wait to see you again,Michael. Sending our love.
(Theme song - Talk About It -playing in background) A Chat
with Heart - produced andwritten by me Christina Martin.
Co-produced and engineered byDale Murray. Check out Dale's
website dalemurray.ca. Thepodcast theme song Talk About

(59:28):
It, was written by me andrecorded by Dale Murray. You can
find it on all the places youstream music. Production plans
for this podcast and Season Oneare supported by the Province of
Nova Scotia's Women in BusinessImplementation Fund, and the
Creative Industries Fund.
Special thanks to TerrenceTaylor, for mentoring me on
hosting this podcast and reallydigging deep with me on my

(59:50):
production plans for season one,which let's be honest, Terrence,
ended up being more like wellneeded psychotherapy for me. To
Christel Seeberger at SensoryFriendly Solutions, thank you
from the bottom of my heart forhelping me learn how to be a
more inclusive, accessible, andsensory friendly human. Visit my
Patreon page to become a monthlyor yearly supporter of this

(01:00:13):
podcast and my music endeavors.
If you're new to Patreon, it's amembership platform that helps
creators get paid. Sign up atpatreon.com/ChristinaMartin. For
this to be a massive success andreach seven billion people. I
need you to share, rate, leave areview and subscribe to A Chat

(01:00:37):
with Heart on all the places youlisten to podcasts. Wishing you,
my little heartbeats, a greatday.

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Matt Epp - Canadian Singer-Songwriter

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Matt Epp - Canadian Singer-Songwriter