On episode 47 of A Chat with Uma, I sit down with my dear friend Jon Nelson—lived-experience mental health expert & longtime healthcare comms exec—whose decade of treatment-resistant depression nearly killed him before an experimental deep brain stimulation (DBS) surgery flipped the circuit & brought instant remission in 2022. Jon shares the unfiltered, brutal reality of suicidal depression & how anger became fuel for advocacy. We trace his decade of every failed treatment—while his wife & kids bore the invisible trauma of caregiving.
He breaks down the difference between sadness & clinical disease, the neurological reality of “choosing life,” & why suicidality is a symptom—not a character flaw. Mid-episode, his psychiatrist Dr. Martijn Figee joins to unpack their shared experience of navigating DBS. Equal parts remission, reclamation, and rebellion—Jon turns survival into a movement to pulverize the stigma of serious mental illness. And come back next week for a solo episode with Dr. Figee, deep-diving into the science of DBS!
Topics Discussed (+ Timestamps):
(00:00:00) Introduction & welcome to Jon!
(00:08:40) Where does Jon come from? Upbringing, background, formative years
(00:18:50) Dislocation at 16 → situational depression, honing empathy; college & NYC healthcare advertising years
(00:30:40) The descent: depression as cellular “poison,” initial denial, & suicidality as symptom—not weakness, drama, or moral failing
(00:49:30) The caregiver toll: bathtub breakdowns, kids’ confusion, insurance combat, financial strain
(00:57:30) A decade of failed interventions: 10+ meds, ketamine (IV & nasal), 36 TMS, 11 ECT (memory loss), residential & PHP/IOP cycles
(01:22:00) Absolute hopelessness, stigma, & the slim reason to stay
(01:28:40) Deep Brain Stimulation prep: trial entry, consent, mindset, surgical risks
(01:34:00) Switch flipped: activation, instant remission, and the shock of neutral daily life
(01:37:10) Relief & righteous anger: gratitude colliding with a decade of preventable suffering
(01:41:00) Dr. Martijn Figee, Jon's psychiatrist: translating “poison” affect into subcallosal cingulate circuit target
(01:48:10) Phenotype → target: differentiating negative affect circuitry from OCD loops, guiding lead (or TMS coil) placement
(01:52:30) Toward precision psychiatry: circuit diagnostics over trial‑and‑error pharmacology
(01:55:00) Pulverize The Stigma: public truth‑telling, rejecting “difficult to treat,” anger as disciplined fuel
(01:57:30) Centering caregivers: invisible labor, secondary trauma, & shared remission
(01:59:40) Advocacy blueprint: accountability for insurers, institutions, & language reform
(02:02:00) Redefining recovery as access to ordinary life & collective responsibility
Connect with Jon!
Connect with Dr. Martijn Figee:
- Email: martijn.figee@mssm.edu
- TRANSCEND Trial: DBS for treatment-resistant depression
- DBS for OCD
Connect with me!
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