What do you do when your estranged father becomes your cyberstalker? Victoria and I kick off our return after a rocky January by unraveling this unsettling tale. We share candid reflections and humor as Victoria opens up about her "sperm donor" father, who, despite his obsession, showed zero concern during her daughter Faith's health crises. Through this bizarre saga, we discuss the perplexing behavior of older individuals and the art of resilience and empowerment when facing narcissistic family dynamics. Look out for Victoria's upcoming book, which promises to dig deeper into these familial challenges.
Growing up as the scapegoat in a narcissistic family is a relentless battle of proving innocence. We tackle the ongoing struggle against unjust blame and how past trauma leads to oversharing in adulthood. The narcissist’s aversion to the success of those they seek to control is a key theme, as we recount anecdotes of manipulation and coercion. It’s all about reclaiming personal power and embracing authenticity amidst these toxic dynamics. Listen in to uncover how embracing your truth can be your greatest weapon in overcoming familial deceit and greed.
We're on a mission to break the cycle of trauma for future generations, sharing stories of loyalty, familial conflict, and the sacrifices we make for those we love. From tales of narcissistic behavior and materialism to the journey of choosing motherhood with a vow to change, we explore the importance of healing from past traumas. Our candid conversations underscore the responsibility of being a cycle breaker and preparing for future generations with love and nurturing relationships. Join us as we gear up for our second season, inviting listeners to engage, share, and spread the love.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hello, hello, hello.
It's Dana Diaz here with mybeautiful redheaded sister,
victoria, who's crossing hereyeballs, even though she still
looks cute with crossed eyeballs.
So we are here on NARC, narcwho's their help.
I'm gasping for air, finallyback from.
I mean, we've been sick, we'vehad weather, we've had it's been
(00:26):
a long January, so here we arein.
February.
We are back.
It was a very long January.
It was such a long January, butwe know that you guys have been
waiting for us to answer morequestions, as more have, I'm
assuming, have piled up.
I can't even imagine.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Crazy, crazy.
But we've also had somephenomenal people reaching out
saying that they partake inlistening to us, so our voices
are in their ears, which is kindof nice and sweet and you know,
fun in its own right.
And I found out I have a cyberstalker.
That's exciting.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
A male or female, it's my sperm donor, oh, okay.
Well, you know what I thinkit's interesting.
You know, this is good that wetalk about this stuff, because I
have had numerous things happento me since my first book came
out, but it's all like I don'tunderstand how people that age
(01:25):
because I mean the peoplebothering me are late 50s, early
60s sperm donor for you.
I mean what?
70s something?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
like that.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Late 60s, okay, 80, whatever, but it's just like you
would think people have more.
I don't care if you're 20.
Don't you have something betterto do?
Like, then, to worry about whatsomebody else is doing and what
they might be saying, and Ijust think that's so weird.
And one, my most recentnarcissist in my life, which
(01:59):
will be featured in the bookthree which is coming out soon
she one of the last things shehad ever said to me was that I
was you're obsessed with me.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
And I'm like no.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Yeah, I'm like no.
It's more the other way around,and all the actions of the last
four or five years have proventhat.
But yeah, it's an obsession.
They're obsessed with peoplethat refuse to bow down to them.
But what I mean?
What could he possibly gainfrom listening to anything that
you do or following you online?
(02:33):
Is he just trying to see ifyou're talking about him
specifically, or?
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Well, yeah, and Michael and I did our show last
night and I was like, okay, well, since I have a cyber stalker,
let me have a little fun.
And so I did an excerpt and Imade that the preview of the
upcoming episode, where it'slike shame on you.
Shame on you because you know Idon't care that you're wanting
(03:00):
to stalk or whatever, but let'sbe real.
This kid who's done nothing inher entire life but help others,
you find out that she is onlife support, multi organ
failure, and you have your headup your ass and I was like shame
on you.
I said you know what?
It took me years and years andyears, decades, to realize that
(03:20):
you don't have that power.
You think you do, but you don't.
But you don't have that power.
You think you do, but you don't.
And it's your loss becauseshe's phenomenal and everybody
who meets her is better formeeting her and for you to be
such a shallow prick.
That's on you.
And so that was just like.
Michael was like, wow, okay,and it was just literally.
(03:40):
You know how you getnotifications for people that
look like if they think thatthey're either a friend
suggestion or if somebody islooking at your stuff all the
time, it'll say you knowsomebody, this is somebody that
you might know.
and I get emails that say, um,this person has a lot in common
(04:04):
with you because and I mean it'slike a daily thing and every
day I'm getting emails and he'sthe consistent thing on them and
it's it's his.
And what's just sick is thefact that, like I was like no,
no, and I went and looked at itand, first of all, he's never
posted anything, but he hashundreds of friends and I say
(04:26):
that loosely and all of thefriends, if you will, look like
they could be his granddaughterand they all how can I say this
and be respectful?
They all look like.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
I think we've thrown respectful out the window on
this show.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
They all look like ladies of the night.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm laughing, I just yeah, that
is actually very respectfulWith big implants.
You know well here's the thing.
Yeah, they look they are young.
We can't be surprised aboutthis, and let me just back it up
(05:06):
a little bit, because somepeople are new to this show or
might be listening to the firstor second time.
Just to give a very briefsynopsis Victoria is talking
about when she says sperm donor.
You can figure out what that is, but the she we're referring to
is your daughter, faith, whoyou know was brought into this
world under pretty horrificcircumstances.
(05:27):
You can read Victoria's bookwho Kicked First.
For that I highly recommend it,even though I have not found it
in my heart to be able to readthat about these two women that
I love very much.
But in Narc Narc who's there?
Which is your most recentpublished book that talks more
(05:47):
about your relationship withyour sperm donor and egg donor
as you refer to them because ofthis horrific thing that you
just said, that when faithrequired I mean even up to what
was it?
A year and a half ago, theChristmas before last, she was
literally fighting for her lifefor months right around
Christmas.
(06:07):
But before that, even as a baby, she was hospitalized her life
holding on by a thin thread, andthese people, her biological
grandparents, couldn't bebothered to ask how she was come
visit.
Nothing, um, which is horrific.
I don't care if you're estrangedfrom somebody, don't care for
(06:30):
your kid, whatever fine, but youknow for an innocent child to
have endured what faith hasendured.
And I'm calling her faithbecause I, yeah, I won't go
there.
I'll let you spill that news ifyou choose to, but, um, for
that's how everybody else knowsher Um, but it's just so hard to
(06:51):
think that people, I mean justfrom a human perspective.
I've never even actually metyou guys in person, but let me
tell you like I, just when shewas in the hospital the
Christmas before last, I meanyou guys were there for months.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah, I never went home, you wouldn't leave her
side.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
I remember you commenting that like you won't
even leave her side to get likea cup of coffee or a sandwich
and the food in the hospital isso expensive and you have all
these bills piling up and yourhusband wouldn't work because he
wasn't going to leave you, orFaith, and you know people take
for granted that you know youwere taking like a bite of a
(07:36):
sandwich here and there ifsomebody brought one to you, if
you could afford to even get one, because I mean for months it
adds up.
It's just the whole thing isjust crazy.
And to know that they're livingjust like my biological mother
and stepfather who raised me,are living, you know, just a few
miles away seven miles, Ibelieve, something like that and
(07:59):
they're living high on the hog,as we say, and in a very
obnoxiously large home for whatthey need.
And you know he's got theJaguar and the Corvette and
three Harleys and all they gotall the stuff and all the money.
But when I needed at 44, when Ineeded an oxygen machine, going
(08:21):
into COVID, newly diagnosedwith a lung syndrome, and my
doctor said a cold will kill you, covid will absolutely be
life-threatening and I'mimmunocompromised they couldn't
be bothered to come forward.
I had other people.
I had people that were like myprofessional acquaintances,
(08:43):
customers that were like here'sa hundred dollars, here's 200,
you know, let's all pitch in.
I had somebody offer to getcare credit.
So it's just like to me that'sbeing a human being.
That's what I would do.
I wanted to go be with you guysjust to bring you a damn
sandwich and a cup of coffeewhen you were in the hospital,
so to know that, a little baby,if my biological grandchild was
(09:03):
in the hospital, I don't carewhat my relationship is with
whoever.
It's just sickening to me thatthere is somebody, not just
somebody, two people out there,and I'm guessing they're not the
only two people in this entireworld that are like that,
because we have a whole showdedicated to narcissists and
people like them.
But how effing disgusting, howeffing disgusting.
(09:25):
And if one of them is cyberstalking and listening to this
episode, I say shame on you too.
And I have another few choicewords for you that I wouldn't
say unless they're warranted.
But yeah, I'd love it.
I don't know how you, you guys,deal with it, but I'm glad that
we're here, at least to helpother people understand that.
You know, there are minorsituations that are dealt with
(09:49):
with narcissists, and then thereare some that are just so
atrocious it's hard to believethey're even human.
I'm sorry I'm getting off mysoapbox now.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
I just.
But then that goes back to theNARC.
Narc, because if people haven'treally either read it or been
listening to this podcast series, everything in the book is
documented Like there isn't.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
He said oh it's all text messages, emails.
You have pictures in there.
I mean there's no, you don'teven need words.
You could read it and say thisman, this married man, is using
his granddaughter, using hisdaughter to gain material things
, to find women that heshouldn't be partaking in, and I
(10:35):
have a few things to say aboutthose women as well, knowing
he's a married man and beingaround you guys, I'm sorry I
keep interrupting you, but thisis just.
Yeah, definitely people shouldread that book.
I read because that wasn't hardto read it, but it was amazing
that you had it.
Wasn't just you saying, oh,this is what it was?
I mean everything is rightthere screenshots, texts, emails
(10:58):
, everything.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yeah, and I mean it is because you and you know this
from being the black sheep.
Emails everything.
Yeah, and I mean it is becauseyou and you know this from being
the black sheep too.
You literally feel like yourwhole life.
You have to prove yourinnocence.
You have to prove you'retelling the truth.
If something happens, it'salways your fault, even if you
had nothing to do with it.
If you're not even in the samestate, it's still your fault.
You did it.
You know you're being put toblame for it.
(11:20):
They cannot hold themselvesaccountable accountable for
anything no but, that's what ascapegoat is.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
A scapegoat is who you are projecting all of your
crap onto and we, as children ofthese people, absolutely
internalize it.
I am, thankfully I'm now 49 andfinally realized not everything
is my fault, I have.
But it's interesting because,like two of the things, signs to
(11:50):
me that somebody has beenthrough a traumatic childhood or
is if they overshare or overexplain, because I was
absolutely those things and Ididn't realize until adulthood
that it really put people off orthey were like taken aback.
Or I remember one time I evensaid something to somebody.
I'm like I'm not your priest,you don't have to confess to,
(12:12):
like I don't need all this extraoh, but, but, but.
And I realized, oh my God, butI.
I did that for so many years too.
It's because nobody believes us.
You feel like you have tojustify, improve and validate
and because nobody ever believedyou, right, and what a
sickening thing to grow.
And you don't realize thatsometimes till you're really
(12:34):
like you've already raised yourkids, you've been through stuff,
and you look back and like, ohmy gosh, I've been like this my
whole life because of them.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Yeah, they just will not hold themselves accountable
for anything, no matter what itis.
And so it was.
Just, you know it was tough.
And so to find out that thisperson is constantly looking,
you know it's like, oh OK, well,I don't know why.
Constantly looking, you knowit's like, oh okay, well, I
(13:05):
don't know why.
But the one thing thatnarcissists absolutely hate is
to see the person that theyblame everything on be
successful.
They don't want them to see theywant them to lean on the
narcissist so that they feellike they have that control, and
when you don't give them thatcontrol, they don't handle it
very well.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
No, they don't.
I think I said in Choking onShame, my second book, I said I
had to be thank you.
I said I had to be the nothingthat they thought I was.
And if I'm not nothing, if Iamount to anything, but that's
all of them.
It's jealousy, their ego just.
It all comes back to their ego.
(13:49):
The key aspect to narcissism istheir ego.
Their ego cannot takeaccountability because that
would mean that, oh, they made amistake or a bad decision, or
they can't handle that.
They have to be perfect,they're superior, they're above
everybody, so it's somebodyelse's fault.
You know, same thing Ifsomebody else succeeds, their
ego interprets that as oh well,that means I didn't succeed
(14:12):
because I didn't achieve thatsame thing.
That's why these are nevergoing to be the people that are
rooting for you.
They don't want you to succeed.
They don't want you to succeed.
They don't want you to have joy.
They don't want you to havelove.
They don't want you to haveanything.
They want to see you justwallow away in misery or you
have to bow down to them.
Those are your choices in theirhead.
(14:33):
But I say F all of it.
Be you, do what you got to doand just claw your way out,
that's the only way to be.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Not only that, but it's like when they blame you
for something and you blatantlyshow that they're the liar and
you have all the proof in theworld, they still spin it.
Why did you have to do that?
Why are you showing something?
Why are you doing this?
And they spin it where you'retrying to show that you're
telling the truth, you're beinghonest, you're being forthcoming
it.
Where you're trying to showthat you're telling the truth,
you're being honest, you'rebeing forthcoming and that
(15:05):
you're not to blame for whateverit is.
Oh I know, and they spin itaround where it's like I can't
believe you betrayed me.
Why would you do?
Speaker 1 (15:13):
that I know.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
And you're like Beetlejuice, you're like what
With?
Speaker 1 (15:16):
your head.
That's why I'm laughing,because you're right.
I have been told that, oh, youbetrayed me.
My other favorite one is oh,you must not have good character
to expose that.
You know it's like, but it'sthe truth and you're lying Like
I'm not lying.
It has nothing to do withcharacter, right?
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Or I will make your mom believe that you made me go
out with this girl.
I didn't make you put anythingof yours into anything of hers.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
But look at how many people believe these narcissists
, because they are very good.
When I was a little girl, Ialways said that my mom and
stepdad both narcissists, bothdifferent narcissists.
But I always called themstories, these little twisted
concoctions of reality that theywould put out in the world
before I would possibly go outand put the truth out before
(16:07):
them, and it was always thestories.
What story were they?
And before they knew that Iknew the truth and saw them for
what they were, they would cometo me and tell me this is what
we're telling people.
I mean, I put a little of thatin my book, but not to the
extent that this actuallyhappened.
If somebody asks you this, thisis how you're going to respond.
(16:29):
If somebody says this, don'ttell them that this is what we
want people to think.
So I'm like but it's not thetruth.
And I mean that started as theearliest I remember I was five
years old.
I am a five year old girl who'sbeing told to lie because I need
to protect my mother'sreputation and my stepfather's
(16:51):
reputation and it's not OK to bewho I am or tell the truth,
like even they wanted me tonegate the fact that my
stepfather wasn't, you know,really, my father.
Everybody had to believe he wasand they wanted.
You know, don't tell anyoneyou're Puerto Rican and don't
tell just all this stuff.
So now you're taking away myauthenticity, my identity,
(17:14):
telling me to lie.
I don't.
I honestly don't know how.
I didn't grow up to be an A1,freaking narcissistic a-hole
like they are.
Because I don't know and peopleask me all the time and I'm
like, I just was how I was.
I was that precocious littlegirl that questioned everything
and I just it just wasn't rightand I was not going to
(17:37):
participate in it.
That's all I can say.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
But that is absolutely-.
I think that made our childhoodeven harder, because of course
it does.
We decided not to give in andbe like them, I mean you know,
we could have, and it would havemade things a whole lot simpler
.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Oh yeah, but we absolutely.
I'd have a family, I'd have awhole lot of family, I wouldn't
be so damn lonely, I wouldn'thave been rejected, I would have
been, I wouldn't have beenexiled.
But you know what I'll?
I'll take me and my truth allday long Then live a lie that
somebody wanted to tell, notjust a lie about them, but lying
(18:15):
about myself.
What, what a horrible thing tobe dishonest with yourself.
Even.
It's almost like gaslightingyourself, which I hate to say.
I see people do.
I mean that's what my motherdoes.
She, she goes along.
You know she wasn't always.
I mean she was, but definitelyher husband, you know, motivates
(18:36):
things and even now it's hardbecause you know my grandma
lives with them because she'sgetting up there in years and
somebody had to take her in andI tried but everyone thought,
well, that's her daughter, sheshould go live with her daughter
.
So she's with my mother andstepfather and I mean I even
talked to her this morning andit's so sad because she's
(18:56):
basically being held captive.
I'm not allowed to come see her, even when I'm on the phone
with her.
They now have video camerasinside the house and multiple of
them monitoring what she says,who she talks to on the phone
what she's saying to people, sosometimes she whispers, or
sometimes she goes into Spanishso that maybe one of them might
(19:20):
not understand what she's saying, or I've learned to read
between the lines.
Or she'll say, oh, I'm notsupposed to talk about that, I'm
not supposed to.
I'm like you're 84 years old,you can talk about whatever the
hell you want.
I'm not supposed to bring upthat person's name.
Okay, well, you can't.
You're talking to me.
Oh, no, I can't.
There's cameras watching me andif they find out and it like
(19:42):
today, she was hoping that maybethey take her out before this
big winter storm we're supposedto get hit with tomorrow,
because normally my mother onlytakes her out once a week.
I mean, my effing God, oh yeah,and she's not allowed to come
out of her bed.
I mean, it's so disgusting.
You want to talk about elderabuse?
That's a whole other elderlyabuse.
(20:03):
It is, but it's a whole otheraspect of narcissistic abuse,
because it's something peopledon't realize.
When we say narcissistic abuse,it's not like an actual form of
abuse, it's an all encompassing.
It could be every abuse or anyabuse, multiple abuses that a
narcissist is using to inflictcontrol upon people or a
(20:24):
situation, and we don't talkenough about, like the elder
abuse that happens, like what mygrandma's going through, but
she won't let me take her out ofthere because, believe me, it's
me and I'm sure if you werehere we'd pull a Thelma and
Louise on that.
Oh yeah, we would.
I'm like grandma.
My husband is almost six, five,two, 20.
If we need to come bust you out, we're coming.
(20:47):
I'll bring the police with me.
We're busting your ass out.
But she doesn't want to causetrouble, she doesn't want, she
just wants peace.
And that's what a lot of peopledo.
Yeah, they go along with thenarcissist to keep peace.
How many people do we know infamilies, narcissists to keep
peace?
How many people do we know infamilies whole families that
breaks my heart that go alongwith the narcissist and exile us
(21:09):
, the truth tellers, to keep?
We don't want to disturb it, wedon't want to create division,
we just want to keep everything,keep that person at bay, keep
them appeased.
F that, f that.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Yeah, you know.
They even say and anybody whobarely knows me knows that I
worship my grandparents likeworship.
I mean, you don't have to knowme for an hour to know.
And when I, after mygrandmother had passed, they
would go around tellingeverybody that I hated them,
that I never wanted to see them,that they had to force me to go
near them.
(21:42):
And I'm like, are you crazy?
Every apartment I've ever had,when Faith was a baby in the
NICU, she had a picture of themin her incubator, like she had a
picture of them over her head.
Right now, right here, is apicture of my grandparents Like
they're in every room of my home.
Their picture is on my back.
I had it tattooed on, like forthem to say that is just
(22:03):
dumbfounding, right.
But when I lived in a differentstate than they did or do still,
and I found out that mygrandmother had cancer, her
cancer had returned, that shehad to take a cab to go to the
drugstore to go get hermedication and my egg donor was
(22:27):
home, they had, you know, nice,expensive cars could have taken
her, but didn't.
And when my sperm donor hadfound out once, he, you know, he
was mad at that point he was,you know.
But I was like when I talked tous, what do you mean?
You had to take a cab and shegoes.
(22:48):
Well, she didn't want to takeme, she would take you where,
and so I was six hours away.
So I started coming back to herplace um every other weekend
and she had built a home ontheir property like a guest home
on their property and so shewas like she wouldn't take me to
the grocery store, she wouldn'ttake me anywhere.
(23:09):
So I would drive six hours tocome down and take her to the
store and to go get um her drugsthat she needed at the at the
pharmacy.
And you know she would be likewhy are you really down here?
And I was like I wanted to seeyou and she's like, and I always
came down when it was refilltime and we'd have dinner and
I'd hang out with her.
And she's like you don't haveto do that, you're right, I
(23:31):
don't have to do that.
I don't, but I'm going to do itbecause it's the right thing to
do.
Right, you know, I mean it atthe holidays.
They don't speak to her.
They didn't go in there whenshe was really sick she.
I found out about it because Icalled the hospital and they
said that she had been admitted.
I literally stopped what I wasdoing, dropped everything and
(23:54):
got down there and they told methat you know, maybe a year left
with her, and I immediatelystarted planning going back,
breaking my lease, stopping,stopping school, like everything
.
And I mean I was a poor collegekid, I had nothing, you know, I
had no pot to piss in, moneywise.
And so when I told her that,she was like no, and I said this
(24:14):
really isn't an option, likeI'm not going to give you an
option.
And so when she came back tothe, to the house and her guest
house, I told the nurse I waslike you don't feed her, you
don't bathe her, anythingpersonal I will do myself.
Like, don't cross that line.
And so she was like the only wayI'm going to agree to this is
that if you let me pay you.
And I was like absolutely not.
And she's like you have bills,you just broke your lease, you
(24:36):
have a car payment, you're goingto be driving me to
appointments, you know, let megive you some money.
And I was like, no, well, thiswent back and forth and so
finally I, you know, was like Idon't know how I'm gonna do this
and be here and take care ofher, because I did.
I had, you know, car insuranceand car payment.
So she was like you know, letme pay that.
And so, after finally arguingwith her about it, I agreed well
(25:02):
, so my biological parents, likeyou, took all this money from
her?
No, no, I didn't, you know, Ididn't want it.
And when I tried to make hertake it back, you, you can't do
that to a new york woman, likeyou know.
That's just not gonna yeah, andso I got such criticism that I
was taking her for money and andit was like are you crazy Like
(25:24):
that?
Speaker 1 (25:25):
That's a perfect.
That's a perfect twist to thestory, though, because there's
evidence that there was moneyexchanged between you two, but
it's their word against yours,and they've already created this
narrative for how many years ofwhatever that you don't like
them and you're this and you'rethat.
Believe me, we we've.
I think everybody can relate tothat, but it's disgusting when
(25:46):
people crap all over a veryprecious relationship that you
hold dear to your heart.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Right.
And then you know, after shepassed, it was three months
later he was like, oh, I got totell you about the will and all
this stuff.
And then you know it's in thebook, book.
But they, he played thenastiest, nastiest, yeah, I
can't even say it's a joke like.
And he was like, oh, she left,you know everybody, a million
dollars apiece and she had a lotof money, but you wouldn't have
(26:12):
known it.
And I was like I don't want it,I don't want the money, I want
my grandmother back and that'swhat I kept saying.
I was like I want her.
No amount of money is gonnabring her back, it's not gonna
make anything better.
I don't want it.
And he was like, well, it'sgonna be in a trust and when you
turn 25 you'll get it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, blah, blah,blah.
And he let this go.
I mean, he even had paperworkdone and this one on for months
and then one day he was likewhat are you gonna do when you
(26:33):
get this money?
And I'm like I don't know, Idon't know, I just want my
grandmother back.
And he was like well, and thenmonths later he's like have you
looked at a new car?
And I'm like no, and then he'slike why you're gonna get all
this money?
And I was like I don't care.
And then he comes back later onand says it was an april fool's
joke.
And I'm like how in the hellcan you consciously make a joke
(26:54):
not only about your mother, butone of the greatest human beings
to walk on this planet?
And you think it's funny, likeyou think that's funny.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
And it's cruel anyway .
It's funny, like you thinkthat's funny and it's cruel
anyway.
It's cruel anyway to toy withsomebody like that Because even
if it was just $1,000 for somepeople, that could like make or
break their ability to pay rentand if they're counting on that
money coming and being told Imean that's just sick.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Well, and not just that.
But I mean she had told me thatyou know she was going to make
sure that she left me certainthings and I was like I want the
memories.
I want to look at that piece offurniture, remember how I used
to play hide and seek and putlike things in there that are
still there today.
Because those are the thingsand I would never sell it, never
.
That's what I want.
I want the memories, and so Ididn't get any of it.
(27:40):
He kept everything.
He never probated the will, soI can't get it.
I don't have my way of findingout what's in it.
I know that nothing wasdistributed the way it was
supposed to be.
He kept all of it and I know heeven kept money that my
biological mother didn't knowwas was left.
I mean, and it's just like IDon't understand how you lay
(28:01):
your bed in bed at night and putyour head down and go to sleep.
I just don't, because it's itdoesn't make sense to me.
I would rather have a roof overmy head and clothes on my, my
husband and child and food intheir stomach and have a comfy,
cozy home than live in an empty,heartless, lifeless house or
(28:21):
mansion as our parents well,that's the thing, though.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
They like to have all their stuff, their, their
prestigious.
You know status perception, youknow life.
They have to be perceived asbeing so much better than
everybody by having all thiscrap right so that.
But they're gonna.
I mean, I once told my mother Isaid your husband's going to
(28:45):
die very, very alone unlessyou're around.
Just be by his side, and thenyou're probably going to die
pretty alone too because of allthe people that you have, you
know, lost in this big mess ofstaying with him.
So you know, to each their own,and that's the one thing that's
really hard.
I would never expect somebody tothink how I think or believe
(29:06):
what I believe, but when itcomes to just basic humanity,
basic human kindness andcourtesy, I will never
understand and thankfully so howa narcissist operates and how
they completely justify how theyare.
So I mean, hopefully that helpsanybody listening.
(29:28):
I mean, any question you havewe can explain them.
We can give you the why.
We can make you understand.
You know what your best courseof action is in response.
But you know what You're notgoing to change these people,
and I have said it a milliontimes.
I know that you believe thesame thing, Victoria.
The only way to have peace isto not have them in your life.
(29:50):
They will continue to tormentyou.
You might get brief periods,like in my former marriage to a
narcissist 25 years.
Oh, I'll be better, I promise.
I promise this.
The longest he could ever gowas 10 days, and what's sad is
that I never shared that withanybody.
And when my son was, well, ourson I just say my son, cause
(30:11):
he's mine, I don't want toacknowledge the other but but my
son came to me, he was maybe 10, 11 years old and he goes.
Oh, this again he goes.
Dad, can't last longer than aweek.
You know being good, and I'mjust like gosh this is a child
saying this and I, I, I give himthe 10 days.
He usually could go, 10 daysbeing nice, but then then, yeah,
(30:35):
the volcano would blow and allhell would break loose and the
earth would be set on fire.
So it never lasts.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
And I tried.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
I was on that hamster wheel for 25 years and it never
changed until I got off.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
So Did you ever experience with your narcissist
that they had to like everythingwas materialistic, Like, for
instance, they?
They bought an RV, right, sothey could go wherever.
And when they would tellsomebody they bought an rv, it
wasn't oh, we just got an rv, itwas a we have, like.
(31:08):
I don't even know the brand.
I knew when they told me whatit was.
I don't remember the name of itthey have to impress people,
right.
But then it was not only thisbrand, but it is the ralph
lorraine platinum edition, andthat was always stated.
It was not.
It's just this yeah, it's theRalph Lauren platinum edition
(31:29):
and it's like absolutely.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
But again, everything a narcissist says is to bait
people into giving themadmiration, adoration and praise
, as if they really do thinkthey're fricking gods.
I mean my favorite and it'sactually funny.
But I always hated my motherand her stupid Christmas
newsletters.
I actually like readingpeople's Christmas newsletters,
(31:54):
but just not hers.
At one point I even told herstop putting me and my son in
them because she wasn't sayingnice things.
And well, half the crap shesaid wasn't even true and I was
just like please keep me out ofthis.
But one year she put in therethat her husband bought a new.
And again it just like what youwere saying and that's what
(32:16):
brought it up.
It was a new Corvette, like thenewest one, but he bought it
and I can't even remember RustyWallace, I guess is some big car
racer.
That shows how much I know hebought it from Rusty Wallace.
This guy owned it first and nowit was his.
But she put in the newsletterwe paid whatever amount of
(32:38):
dollars.
She actually said how muchmoney they paid, as if this was
going to impress people.
And then at a Christmas partyafter that, somebody you know to
be nice was like oh, I readyour Christmas newsletter heard
about.
You know the car and thisjackass.
(32:58):
My stepfather, needless to say,is an extremely overt, over the
effing top narcissist.
He does not hold back and he'snot shy in any way, tells this
relative, this aunt of mine ohyeah, and we paid this much.
You'd never be able to affordany kind of vehicle like that.
And she had the same expressionyou have right now.
(33:20):
But that's how he is, is.
He is so audacious it sometimesit comes off as funny and
people often think he's funnybecause he's entertaining, if
nothing else.
But after growing up with that,like I'm so over the
obnoxiousness.
And, by the way, his firstCorvette, because he has owned
(33:43):
multiple, his first Corvette heever bought.
And I don't remember if thisended up in the book, because
you know how it is writing abook, you put stuff in you take
stuff out all the revising, buthis very first one it was a
Sunday morning, like early, like6, 7 am on a Sunday morning and
you hear somebody blaring a carhorn outside Sunday morning and
(34:06):
you hear somebody blaring a carhorn outside.
And you know, this was back inlike late seventies, early
eighties when people actuallylike did go to church on Sunday
or slept in because nothing wasopen on Sunday.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Right.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
And my mom and I look out the window and it's her
jackass husband going down thestreet in his new Corvette
because he wanted to haunt andhe did not get off that horn.
Everybody was looking outbecause he wanted everybody to
see him in this Corvette andeverybody did.
Everybody saw him and he didn'teven care that he was waking up
(34:34):
like the whole damn town.
I swear to God, that's, that'snarcissistic behavior.
That's a typical overtnarcissist.
A lot of them are obsessed withstatus, like the name brands
and status symbols and high endthings, and they can take that.
I mean I'm not going to lie.
I mean I can appreciatesomething that's high end.
(34:54):
Oftentimes often not always itis of a higher quality that I
can't normally always indulge in.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
it's nice to have those things, but I wouldn't go
rub it in everybody's face orput it in the Christmas
newsletter right, no, like hehad somebody who would detail
cars for him and you know he hadthe expensive cars and it's
just like, all right, it's gonnaget you from point a to point b
.
And he's like you're a seniorexecutive and you're in your
early 20s, you should be drivinga brand new Lexus and I'm like,
(35:24):
you make the payment, I'm stillnot going to drive it, like you
know.
No, and he turned around andthe guy was our age and so,
really nice guy, you know justhard worker.
I guess you could just say bluecollar, no nice guy, never
(35:45):
going to be able to afford a carthat he was detailing.
But that doesn't mean anythingto me, I'd still go say hey, do
you need a bottle of water, doyou want a drink Coke, whatever.
And I remember distinctly hecalls me up and he is just fit
to be tied and I'm like what iswrong with you today?
(36:06):
Like what is it today?
And he's like you're nevergoing to believe this.
There was a lot of times Iwould just put the phone on
speaker and put it down, becausethat's just what I did, and he
was like you're never going tobelieve this.
And then he was like so-and-sois dead and I was like what?
I was like he was just here aweek ago and he was like, yeah,
(36:26):
and the bastard did not finishmy cars and I paid him ahead of
time, oh my gosh.
And I couldn't make this up.
And I was like wait, are youwhat?
And he was like I paid himahead of time because he was a
single dad and he was doingsomething for his son.
(36:47):
And he said, hey, I'll be backnext weekend.
Do you think you could go aheadand give me what you know
you'll owe me for the rest andI'll come back?
Now this is somebody that I'veknown at least 20 years, like at
least, and when.
Ok, now, he was never on time.
But if he said he was going tobe there that day unless
(37:09):
something happened, he was there, right, so OK.
And he's like I swear.
And he's like cursing andeverything.
And I'm like, hey, hey, wait,wait, wait, wait.
Did I miss where you just saidhe died?
And he's like, yeah, he had aheart attack and and I didn't
get the rest of my work done,and he has my money.
And I'm like, okay, I'm justcurious and I'm probably going
(37:32):
to regret asking this, but like,what are we talking about?
He's like I gave him $50.
And I'm like you are such aslimeless bastard, my gosh.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
You know what?
And I'm thinking, I mean, evenif it was a few hundred, even if
it, like the guy, died it's notlike he wanted to or tried to,
Right.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
I'm going to avoid him by dying.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Yeah, like I don't know, but that's just so.
That sounds typicallynarcissistic.
Somebody the offense to themthat this person would be so
bold as to die.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Oh to them that this person would be so bold as to
die.
Oh my gosh, how dare you right.
And then the money went to thekid who goes.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
I'm gonna ask the kid for the money back.
Oh my god, you can't do that dothat he has.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
The kid is not graduated high school.
The kid is living, or wasliving, alone with his dad and
his dad did a hell of a good jobraising this kid.
And you're gonna have theaudacity and I was like, why
isn't this surprising, like, andhe's like somebody needs to
give me this back.
You walk around with a lot ofbenjamin franklin's like this
(38:38):
everywhere you go and you areliterally got your song in an
uproar because somebody took a$50 bill from you.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
He would so get along with my stepfather.
It was the same thing, pennypincher his money, his money,
his money.
Nobody else could spend it.
You know, even my mother wentwithout health insurance for a
long time, and God forbid Ineeded to go to the doctor for
anything.
He always had health insurance,though, and he went for regular
exams, but God forbid any.
(39:11):
I remember going to theemergency room once, and I never
I probably still to this daywould be hearing about him
getting the bill for what theinsurance didn't cover on that,
because my boyfriend took me tothe emergency room.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
That's what blows my mind, and Faith is like I don't
understand, because we're goodpeople and all we try to do is
help people and pay it forwardand he's never had anything
health wise.
And I'm like, you're right, youknow, like I've noticed that
too.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
Every narcissist I know is just walking Like
they're going to live tillthey're 100.
These a-holes.
And then there's people justlike fighting for their next
breath.
There's children that aresuffering and dying and people
dying to young good people, andI told you before what, living
backwards yeah it's evil, yeah,right.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
And my, my egg donor used to turn around say I'm
Peter Pan, I'm gonna liveforever.
And one day I looked at Faithand Faith looked at me and goes
I think she's right.
And I'm like but you know, Igotta find the picture faith
drew a picture of for herBecause she called her Mimi,
because everything was about her, so it was all Mimi, mimi.
(40:23):
And so she Drew a picture.
I had a gorgeous picture madeof her and her grandfather and,
hand to God, he put it in frontof the trash cans in the garage
Like huge canvas painting.
And he put it in front of thetrash cans in the garage.
And so Faith was a littleperturbed and so she drew a
(40:45):
picture.
I have it somewhere.
And so she drew a picture Ihave it somewhere and she showed
it to me.
And then she showed it to herand she goes I don't get it.
And Faith looks at me and goesis she serious?
And I was like, yeah, it is agrandma looking down at her
(41:06):
grandchild who is, who isholding a bucket.
And she says kick it, kick thebucket.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Oh, yikes, and that's I mean, that's, that's sad.
I just, I don't know what tosay to that Cause.
I mean, if that's how, you makeyour grandchild feel.
Yeah, yeah, I understand that,but I mean any child should not
feel that way, like I mean, likepeople often condemn me for
allowing.
(41:39):
Although my son is 21, I can'treally allow him much anymore.
He's a grown young man.
But yeah, I allowed him to havea relationship with them
because I understood that theabuse and that mistreatment was
specifically to me because I wasthe unwanted child that my
(42:00):
mother had to carry out, whileshe didn't have to.
She chose to carry shame abouthaving me as a teenager and it
was my fault for making myselfapparently an existing that I
infringed upon her life.
But you know, I am glad thatthey at least put on their fake
(42:20):
BS facade, like they do witheveryone else, for my son,
because my son actually he seeshis grandparents for what they
are, but they are not cruel ormean to him.
You know, I mean there's thingsI have taken issues with, but
you know, for the most partthey're as good as they're going
(42:42):
to be towards somebody, to him,and narcissists are very good
at that.
That's how they fool people.
That's how in romanticrelationships and friendships,
they fool us in the beginningand lure us in with their charm
and all their crap, but yeah.
But to have a grandparent thatwould do that put that picture
out in the garbage, I mean Iwould never.
I would never think to do thatto any child that drew a picture
(43:07):
for me.
That's so sad.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
They've always been, always.
They never want to spend timewith her, never want to do
anything with her, unless it wasmy bio dad, and it was, you
know, the excuse to use us tohave an excuse to go out with us
to see other women, and thatwas awful, you know.
I mean, she's an amazing kidwho has fought and fought and
fought, and they, just you knowI mean, she's an amazing kid who
(43:29):
has fought and fought andfought, and they, just you know
they're lost, they told her thatyou know, like if I died on the
or table, that it would be noloss and that they don't love me
.
And they told her that and youknow, I mean, and she's like you
are so opposite of them and Isaid I give you everything I
ever wanted, never got.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
A hundred percent.
That's what I did with my son,and I think that's what a lot of
people do, which is why when Iam asked oh, were your parents
abused as children?
I say yes, in fact, they wereterribly, terribly both of that.
Well, when I say parents, Imean stepfather and mother,
because they're the ones whoraised me, but that is not an
(44:08):
excuse, because after what Iwent through, after what you
went through.
I made a choice.
Number one I made a choice notto have kids.
But then my biological clocksaid yeah, maybe we do want one
anyway.
And I made a choice when I heldmy son.
Well, before he even came outof my womb he was going to know
(44:29):
that he was loved.
No, matter what, no matter how,I would never, ever let us have
an estranged relationship.
And I just don't understandpeople that perpetuate these
cycles and people can say, oh,they don't know any different,
they don't know any better.
You know what?
I was five years old, going toplay with the other little kids
on the block, and I could seehow their moms and dads treated
(44:51):
them and their grandmas andgrandpas and whoever else I was.
Nobody was perfect.
Well, a few of them seem to be,but you know, we know how that
goes.
But at the end of the day, Iknew what was going on in my
house wasn't right.
I knew their relationshipwasn't right.
I knew how they treated mewasn't right and I was not going
to put another child, nevermindmy own, through the same crap
(45:14):
that I went through.
So I don't buy all that.
Oh, if they were abused, thatexplains it.
Or I don't know any better,they don't know any better.
Bull effing S.
That's right.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
No, no, I didn't have .
Any times I've heard frompeople say you know, but they
were abused, so that explains it.
That doesn't give the right tothem to pass it on.
That's why you break the cycle,you know, stop playing that
freaking victim card, becausethat is not okay.
Well, everybody wants an excuse.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
Everybody wants an excuse because it gives them a
way out, because then they don't.
They don't have trauma to heal,because that's what abuse is.
It's somebody else's unhealedtrauma that they're not willing
to deal with or acknowledge.
So they put it on somebody else.
And I don't know about you, butI've traced my crap back eight
generations and I am carryingeight generations of bull crap.
(46:03):
No, I put that crap, I finallyhave been able to put it down.
And it's not easy, the burdenon us to undo all that stuff,
but it's so much.
It's so much better to gothrough the healing, which is
nasty and awful, to be able toundo all that stuff.
And is it all completely gone?
No, I'm still, you know, stillhave a smear of crap here and
(46:27):
there once in a while that Inotice, and I got to wipe that
up, clean that up.
But my God, and somebody told mesomething interesting, though
this was very recently.
She said you think you're thecycle breaker, but you're not.
She says it's actually you arethe one that decided the cycle
(46:47):
should be broken.
But we'll see if it really iswith your son, with your
children and grandchildren.
I thought, oh crap, so goodthing that my son lives nearby
and as much as I don't want tolive in this god-awful state,
I'm going to stay around becausehe doesn't think I do anything
all day at home.
You know, I'm home all daydoing nothing.
I I don't actually work, butthat's fine for him to think
(47:09):
that, because he's asked me whenhe has children if I could, you
know, be his free babysitter.
So I'm like that's all good, Iwill be their primary caretaker.
So I will ensure that damncycle is broken.
That chain will be broken.
Speaker 2 (47:28):
There will be nothing , no remainders left of it on my
little grandbabies, and they'regoing to call me glamour
because you know, like glamour,yeah, glamour.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
You know we're gonna all wear lipstick and have our
lashes and all our nails donegive me a hot grandma I'm sure I
was gonna go for you know,spicy mamacita or something, but
that's a lot for a two-year-old.
So I figured glamour is we canstart with that.
So that's too cute.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
I can just see like little matching pajama day and
all sorts of cuteness.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
Oh, goodness, oh yeah , and they can't stop me.
We're going to go have lots offun and do lots of fun things,
because I mean, that's what Itried to do.
Well, I and I did do that withmy son as much as I could within
that marriage to his father,which was not fun, but with the
grandkids I'm gonna be just, I'mgonna have it's gonna be all
balls out.
(48:15):
So it's exciting okay well, webetter answer some questions,
because people have been writingin.
Speaker 2 (48:23):
Probably we have been answering some.
Oh, have we okay?
Well, hopefully yeah, and thenext one, we're gonna do nothing
but answer questions.
Okay, that's what we're gonnado on the next one, so, but
we're gonna.
We're gonna get these back outmore routinely, since we had to.
Yes, we'll say this is ourseason two, because we took a
little break there yeah, and weapologize.
Speaker 1 (48:44):
You know illness is going around after christmas and
just I mean schedules and it'sjust been a whole lot of but I
think everybody understandsjanuary.
It was a very long january butwe will be back we all need to
breathe.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
We'll be back soon, soon, soon, soon yes, I'm
looking forward to it yes, sokeep all of the questions and
comments coming in and we willget to all of them yes, we will
keep listening.
Speaker 1 (49:19):
Share these episodes with your friends, with anybody
else who you think might relate,because that's the best way to
help them out is for us to letthem know instead of you,
because if you do it, it's kindof confrontational or they may
take offense or be embarrassedor ashamed, and we want
everybody to feel the love, soshare this please listen next
time, and we'll see you then.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
Bye.
Hello, hello, hello.
It's Dana Diaz here with mybeautiful redheaded sister,
victoria, who's crossing hereyeballs, even though she still
looks cute with crossed eyeballs.
So we are here on NARC, narcwho's their help.
I'm gasping for air, finallyback from.
I mean, we've been sick, we'vehad weather, we've had it's been
(00:26):
a long January, so here we arein.
February.
We are back.
It was a very long January.
It was such a long January, butwe know that you guys have been
waiting for us to answer morequestions, as more have, I'm
assuming, have piled up.
I can't even imagine.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Crazy, crazy.
But we've also had somephenomenal people reaching out
saying that they partake inlistening to us, so our voices
are in their ears, which is kindof nice and sweet and you know,
fun in its own right.
And I found out I have a cyberstalker.
That's exciting.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
A male or female, it's my sperm donor, oh, okay.
Well, you know what I thinkit's interesting.
You know, this is good that wetalk about this stuff, because I
have had numerous things happento me since my first book came
out, but it's all like I don'tunderstand how people that age
(01:25):
because I mean the peoplebothering me are late 50s, early
60s sperm donor for you.
I mean what?
70s something?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
like that.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Late 60s, okay, 80, whatever, but it's just like you
would think people have more.
I don't care if you're 20.
Don't you have something betterto do?
Like, then, to worry about whatsomebody else is doing and what
they might be saying, and Ijust think that's so weird.
And one, my most recentnarcissist in my life, which
(01:59):
will be featured in the bookthree which is coming out soon
she one of the last things shehad ever said to me was that I
was you're obsessed with me.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
And I'm like no.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Yeah, I'm like no.
It's more the other way around,and all the actions of the last
four or five years have proventhat.
But yeah, it's an obsession.
They're obsessed with peoplethat refuse to bow down to them.
But what I mean?
What could he possibly gainfrom listening to anything that
you do or following you online?
(02:33):
Is he just trying to see ifyou're talking about him
specifically, or?
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Well, yeah, and Michael and I did our show last
night and I was like, okay, well, since I have a cyber stalker,
let me have a little fun.
And so I did an excerpt and Imade that the preview of the
upcoming episode, where it'slike shame on you.
Shame on you because you know Idon't care that you're wanting
(03:00):
to stalk or whatever, but let'sbe real.
This kid who's done nothing inher entire life but help others,
you find out that she is onlife support, multi organ
failure, and you have your headup your ass and I was like shame
on you.
I said you know what?
It took me years and years andyears, decades, to realize that
(03:20):
you don't have that power.
You think you do, but you don't.
But you don't have that power.
You think you do, but you don't.
And it's your loss becauseshe's phenomenal and everybody
who meets her is better formeeting her and for you to be
such a shallow prick.
That's on you.
And so that was just like.
Michael was like, wow, okay,and it was just literally.
(03:40):
You know how you getnotifications for people that
look like if they think thatthey're either a friend
suggestion or if somebody islooking at your stuff all the
time, it'll say you knowsomebody, this is somebody that
you might know.
and I get emails that say, um,this person has a lot in common
(04:04):
with you because and I mean it'slike a daily thing and every
day I'm getting emails and he'sthe consistent thing on them and
it's it's his.
And what's just sick is thefact that, like I was like no,
no, and I went and looked at itand, first of all, he's never
posted anything, but he hashundreds of friends and I say
(04:26):
that loosely and all of thefriends, if you will, look like
they could be his granddaughterand they all how can I say this
and be respectful?
They all look like.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
I think we've thrown respectful out the window on
this show.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
They all look like ladies of the night.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm laughing, I just yeah, that
is actually very respectfulWith big implants.
You know well here's the thing.
Yeah, they look they are young.
We can't be surprised aboutthis, and let me just back it up
(05:06):
a little bit, because somepeople are new to this show or
might be listening to the firstor second time.
Just to give a very briefsynopsis Victoria is talking
about when she says sperm donor.
You can figure out what that is, but the she we're referring to
is your daughter, faith, whoyou know was brought into this
world under pretty horrificcircumstances.
(05:27):
You can read Victoria's bookwho Kicked First.
For that I highly recommend it,even though I have not found it
in my heart to be able to readthat about these two women that
I love very much.
But in Narc Narc who's there?
Which is your most recentpublished book that talks more
(05:47):
about your relationship withyour sperm donor and egg donor
as you refer to them because ofthis horrific thing that you
just said, that when faithrequired I mean even up to what
was it?
A year and a half ago, theChristmas before last, she was
literally fighting for her lifefor months right around
Christmas.
(06:07):
But before that, even as a baby, she was hospitalized her life
holding on by a thin thread, andthese people, her biological
grandparents, couldn't bebothered to ask how she was come
visit.
Nothing, um, which is horrific.
I don't care if you're estrangedfrom somebody, don't care for
(06:30):
your kid, whatever fine, but youknow for an innocent child to
have endured what faith hasendured.
And I'm calling her faithbecause I, yeah, I won't go
there.
I'll let you spill that news ifyou choose to, but, um, for
that's how everybody else knowsher Um, but it's just so hard to
(06:51):
think that people, I mean justfrom a human perspective.
I've never even actually metyou guys in person, but let me
tell you like I, just when shewas in the hospital the
Christmas before last, I meanyou guys were there for months.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah, I never went home, you wouldn't leave her
side.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
I remember you commenting that like you won't
even leave her side to get likea cup of coffee or a sandwich
and the food in the hospital isso expensive and you have all
these bills piling up and yourhusband wouldn't work because he
wasn't going to leave you, orFaith, and you know people take
for granted that you know youwere taking like a bite of a
(07:36):
sandwich here and there ifsomebody brought one to you, if
you could afford to even get one, because I mean for months it
adds up.
It's just the whole thing isjust crazy.
And to know that they're livingjust like my biological mother
and stepfather who raised me,are living, you know, just a few
miles away seven miles, Ibelieve, something like that and
(07:59):
they're living high on the hog,as we say, and in a very
obnoxiously large home for whatthey need.
And you know he's got theJaguar and the Corvette and
three Harleys and all they gotall the stuff and all the money.
But when I needed at 44, when Ineeded an oxygen machine, going
(08:21):
into COVID, newly diagnosedwith a lung syndrome, and my
doctor said a cold will kill you, covid will absolutely be
life-threatening and I'mimmunocompromised they couldn't
be bothered to come forward.
I had other people.
I had people that were like myprofessional acquaintances,
(08:43):
customers that were like here'sa hundred dollars, here's 200,
you know, let's all pitch in.
I had somebody offer to getcare credit.
So it's just like to me that'sbeing a human being.
That's what I would do.
I wanted to go be with you guysjust to bring you a damn
sandwich and a cup of coffeewhen you were in the hospital,
so to know that, a little baby,if my biological grandchild was
(09:03):
in the hospital, I don't carewhat my relationship is with
whoever.
It's just sickening to me thatthere is somebody, not just
somebody, two people out there,and I'm guessing they're not the
only two people in this entireworld that are like that,
because we have a whole showdedicated to narcissists and
people like them.
But how effing disgusting, howeffing disgusting.
(09:25):
And if one of them is cyberstalking and listening to this
episode, I say shame on you too.
And I have another few choicewords for you that I wouldn't
say unless they're warranted.
But yeah, I'd love it.
I don't know how you, you guys,deal with it, but I'm glad that
we're here, at least to helpother people understand that.
You know, there are minorsituations that are dealt with
(09:49):
with narcissists, and then thereare some that are just so
atrocious it's hard to believethey're even human.
I'm sorry I'm getting off mysoapbox now.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
I just.
But then that goes back to theNARC.
Narc, because if people haven'treally either read it or been
listening to this podcast series, everything in the book is
documented Like there isn't.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
He said oh it's all text messages, emails.
You have pictures in there.
I mean there's no, you don'teven need words.
You could read it and say thisman, this married man, is using
his granddaughter, using hisdaughter to gain material things
, to find women that heshouldn't be partaking in, and I
(10:35):
have a few things to say aboutthose women as well, knowing
he's a married man and beingaround you guys, I'm sorry I
keep interrupting you, but thisis just.
Yeah, definitely people shouldread that book.
I read because that wasn't hardto read it, but it was amazing
that you had it.
Wasn't just you saying, oh,this is what it was?
I mean everything is rightthere screenshots, texts, emails
(10:58):
, everything.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yeah, and I mean it is because you and you know this
from being the black sheep.
Emails everything.
Yeah, and I mean it is becauseyou and you know this from being
the black sheep too.
You literally feel like yourwhole life.
You have to prove yourinnocence.
You have to prove you'retelling the truth.
If something happens, it'salways your fault, even if you
had nothing to do with it.
If you're not even in the samestate, it's still your fault.
You did it.
You know you're being put toblame for it.
(11:20):
They cannot hold themselvesaccountable accountable for
anything no but, that's what ascapegoat is.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
A scapegoat is who you are projecting all of your
crap onto and we, as children ofthese people, absolutely
internalize it.
I am, thankfully I'm now 49 andfinally realized not everything
is my fault, I have.
But it's interesting because,like two of the things, signs to
(11:50):
me that somebody has beenthrough a traumatic childhood or
is if they overshare or overexplain, because I was
absolutely those things and Ididn't realize until adulthood
that it really put people off orthey were like taken aback.
Or I remember one time I evensaid something to somebody.
I'm like I'm not your priest,you don't have to confess to,
(12:12):
like I don't need all this extraoh, but, but, but.
And I realized, oh my God, butI.
I did that for so many years too.
It's because nobody believes us.
You feel like you have tojustify, improve and validate
and because nobody ever believedyou, right, and what a
sickening thing to grow.
And you don't realize thatsometimes till you're really
(12:34):
like you've already raised yourkids, you've been through stuff,
and you look back and like, ohmy gosh, I've been like this my
whole life because of them.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Yeah, they just will not hold themselves accountable
for anything, no matter what itis.
And so it was.
Just, you know it was tough.
And so to find out that thisperson is constantly looking,
you know it's like, oh OK, well,I don't know why.
Constantly looking, you knowit's like, oh okay, well, I
(13:05):
don't know why.
But the one thing thatnarcissists absolutely hate is
to see the person that theyblame everything on be
successful.
They don't want them to see theywant them to lean on the
narcissist so that they feellike they have that control, and
when you don't give them thatcontrol, they don't handle it
very well.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
No, they don't.
I think I said in Choking onShame, my second book, I said I
had to be thank you.
I said I had to be the nothingthat they thought I was.
And if I'm not nothing, if Iamount to anything, but that's
all of them.
It's jealousy, their ego just.
It all comes back to their ego.
(13:49):
The key aspect to narcissism istheir ego.
Their ego cannot takeaccountability because that
would mean that, oh, they made amistake or a bad decision, or
they can't handle that.
They have to be perfect,they're superior, they're above
everybody, so it's somebodyelse's fault.
You know, same thing Ifsomebody else succeeds, their
ego interprets that as oh well,that means I didn't succeed
(14:12):
because I didn't achieve thatsame thing.
That's why these are nevergoing to be the people that are
rooting for you.
They don't want you to succeed.
They don't want you to succeed.
They don't want you to have joy.
They don't want you to havelove.
They don't want you to haveanything.
They want to see you justwallow away in misery or you
have to bow down to them.
Those are your choices in theirhead.
(14:33):
But I say F all of it.
Be you, do what you got to doand just claw your way out,
that's the only way to be.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Not only that, but it's like when they blame you
for something and you blatantlyshow that they're the liar and
you have all the proof in theworld, they still spin it.
Why did you have to do that?
Why are you showing something?
Why are you doing this?
And they spin it where you'retrying to show that you're
telling the truth, you're beinghonest, you're being forthcoming
it.
Where you're trying to showthat you're telling the truth,
you're being honest, you'rebeing forthcoming and that
(15:05):
you're not to blame for whateverit is.
Oh I know, and they spin itaround where it's like I can't
believe you betrayed me.
Why would you do?
Speaker 1 (15:13):
that I know.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
And you're like Beetlejuice, you're like what
With?
Speaker 1 (15:16):
your head.
That's why I'm laughing,because you're right.
I have been told that, oh, youbetrayed me.
My other favorite one is oh,you must not have good character
to expose that.
You know it's like, but it'sthe truth and you're lying Like
I'm not lying.
It has nothing to do withcharacter, right?
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Or I will make your mom believe that you made me go
out with this girl.
I didn't make you put anythingof yours into anything of hers.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
But look at how many people believe these narcissists
, because they are very good.
When I was a little girl, Ialways said that my mom and
stepdad both narcissists, bothdifferent narcissists.
But I always called themstories, these little twisted
concoctions of reality that theywould put out in the world
before I would possibly go outand put the truth out before
(16:07):
them, and it was always thestories.
What story were they?
And before they knew that Iknew the truth and saw them for
what they were, they would cometo me and tell me this is what
we're telling people.
I mean, I put a little of thatin my book, but not to the
extent that this actuallyhappened.
If somebody asks you this, thisis how you're going to respond.
(16:29):
If somebody says this, don'ttell them that this is what we
want people to think.
So I'm like but it's not thetruth.
And I mean that started as theearliest I remember I was five
years old.
I am a five year old girl who'sbeing told to lie because I need
to protect my mother'sreputation and my stepfather's
(16:51):
reputation and it's not OK to bewho I am or tell the truth,
like even they wanted me tonegate the fact that my
stepfather wasn't, you know,really, my father.
Everybody had to believe he wasand they wanted.
You know, don't tell anyoneyou're Puerto Rican and don't
tell just all this stuff.
So now you're taking away myauthenticity, my identity,
(17:14):
telling me to lie.
I don't.
I honestly don't know how.
I didn't grow up to be an A1,freaking narcissistic a-hole
like they are.
Because I don't know and peopleask me all the time and I'm
like, I just was how I was.
I was that precocious littlegirl that questioned everything
and I just it just wasn't rightand I was not going to
(17:37):
participate in it.
That's all I can say.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
But that is absolutely-.
I think that made our childhoodeven harder, because of course
it does.
We decided not to give in andbe like them, I mean you know,
we could have, and it would havemade things a whole lot simpler
.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Oh yeah, but we absolutely.
I'd have a family, I'd have awhole lot of family, I wouldn't
be so damn lonely, I wouldn'thave been rejected, I would have
been, I wouldn't have beenexiled.
But you know what I'll?
I'll take me and my truth allday long Then live a lie that
somebody wanted to tell, notjust a lie about them, but lying
(18:15):
about myself.
What, what a horrible thing tobe dishonest with yourself.
Even.
It's almost like gaslightingyourself, which I hate to say.
I see people do.
I mean that's what my motherdoes.
She, she goes along.
You know she wasn't always.
I mean she was, but definitelyher husband, you know, motivates
(18:36):
things and even now it's hardbecause you know my grandma
lives with them because she'sgetting up there in years and
somebody had to take her in andI tried but everyone thought,
well, that's her daughter, sheshould go live with her daughter
.
So she's with my mother andstepfather and I mean I even
talked to her this morning andit's so sad because she's
(18:56):
basically being held captive.
I'm not allowed to come see her, even when I'm on the phone
with her.
They now have video camerasinside the house and multiple of
them monitoring what she says,who she talks to on the phone
what she's saying to people, sosometimes she whispers, or
sometimes she goes into Spanishso that maybe one of them might
(19:20):
not understand what she's saying, or I've learned to read
between the lines.
Or she'll say, oh, I'm notsupposed to talk about that, I'm
not supposed to.
I'm like you're 84 years old,you can talk about whatever the
hell you want.
I'm not supposed to bring upthat person's name.
Okay, well, you can't.
You're talking to me.
Oh, no, I can't.
There's cameras watching me andif they find out and it like
(19:42):
today, she was hoping that maybethey take her out before this
big winter storm we're supposedto get hit with tomorrow,
because normally my mother onlytakes her out once a week.
I mean, my effing God, oh yeah,and she's not allowed to come
out of her bed.
I mean, it's so disgusting.
You want to talk about elderabuse?
That's a whole other elderlyabuse.
(20:03):
It is, but it's a whole otheraspect of narcissistic abuse,
because it's something peopledon't realize.
When we say narcissistic abuse,it's not like an actual form of
abuse, it's an all encompassing.
It could be every abuse or anyabuse, multiple abuses that a
narcissist is using to inflictcontrol upon people or a
(20:24):
situation, and we don't talkenough about, like the elder
abuse that happens, like what mygrandma's going through, but
she won't let me take her out ofthere because, believe me, it's
me and I'm sure if you werehere we'd pull a Thelma and
Louise on that.
Oh yeah, we would.
I'm like grandma.
My husband is almost six, five,two, 20.
If we need to come bust you out, we're coming.
(20:47):
I'll bring the police with me.
We're busting your ass out.
But she doesn't want to causetrouble, she doesn't want, she
just wants peace.
And that's what a lot of peopledo.
Yeah, they go along with thenarcissist to keep peace.
How many people do we know infamilies, narcissists to keep
peace?
How many people do we know infamilies whole families that
breaks my heart that go alongwith the narcissist and exile us
(21:09):
, the truth tellers, to keep?
We don't want to disturb it, wedon't want to create division,
we just want to keep everything,keep that person at bay, keep
them appeased.
F that, f that.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Yeah, you know.
They even say and anybody whobarely knows me knows that I
worship my grandparents likeworship.
I mean, you don't have to knowme for an hour to know.
And when I, after mygrandmother had passed, they
would go around tellingeverybody that I hated them,
that I never wanted to see them,that they had to force me to go
near them.
(21:42):
And I'm like, are you crazy?
Every apartment I've ever had,when Faith was a baby in the
NICU, she had a picture of themin her incubator, like she had a
picture of them over her head.
Right now, right here, is apicture of my grandparents Like
they're in every room of my home.
Their picture is on my back.
I had it tattooed on, like forthem to say that is just
(22:03):
dumbfounding, right.
But when I lived in a differentstate than they did or do still,
and I found out that mygrandmother had cancer, her
cancer had returned, that shehad to take a cab to go to the
drugstore to go get hermedication and my egg donor was
(22:27):
home, they had, you know, nice,expensive cars could have taken
her, but didn't.
And when my sperm donor hadfound out once, he, you know, he
was mad at that point he was,you know.
But I was like when I talked tous, what do you mean?
You had to take a cab and shegoes.
(22:48):
Well, she didn't want to takeme, she would take you where,
and so I was six hours away.
So I started coming back to herplace um every other weekend
and she had built a home ontheir property like a guest home
on their property and so shewas like she wouldn't take me to
the grocery store, she wouldn'ttake me anywhere.
(23:09):
So I would drive six hours tocome down and take her to the
store and to go get um her drugsthat she needed at the at the
pharmacy.
And you know she would be likewhy are you really down here?
And I was like I wanted to seeyou and she's like, and I always
came down when it was refilltime and we'd have dinner and
I'd hang out with her.
And she's like you don't haveto do that, you're right, I
(23:31):
don't have to do that.
I don't, but I'm going to do itbecause it's the right thing to
do.
Right, you know, I mean it atthe holidays.
They don't speak to her.
They didn't go in there whenshe was really sick she.
I found out about it because Icalled the hospital and they
said that she had been admitted.
I literally stopped what I wasdoing, dropped everything and
(23:54):
got down there and they told methat you know, maybe a year left
with her, and I immediatelystarted planning going back,
breaking my lease, stopping,stopping school, like everything
.
And I mean I was a poor collegekid, I had nothing, you know, I
had no pot to piss in, moneywise.
And so when I told her that,she was like no, and I said this
(24:14):
really isn't an option, likeI'm not going to give you an
option.
And so when she came back tothe, to the house and her guest
house, I told the nurse I waslike you don't feed her, you
don't bathe her, anythingpersonal I will do myself.
Like, don't cross that line.
And so she was like the only wayI'm going to agree to this is
that if you let me pay you.
And I was like absolutely not.
And she's like you have bills,you just broke your lease, you
(24:36):
have a car payment, you're goingto be driving me to
appointments, you know, let megive you some money.
And I was like, no, well, thiswent back and forth and so
finally I, you know, was like Idon't know how I'm gonna do this
and be here and take care ofher, because I did.
I had, you know, car insuranceand car payment.
So she was like you know, letme pay that.
And so, after finally arguingwith her about it, I agreed well
(25:02):
, so my biological parents, likeyou, took all this money from
her?
No, no, I didn't, you know, Ididn't want it.
And when I tried to make hertake it back, you, you can't do
that to a new york woman, likeyou know.
That's just not gonna yeah, andso I got such criticism that I
was taking her for money and andit was like are you crazy Like
(25:24):
that?
Speaker 1 (25:25):
That's a perfect.
That's a perfect twist to thestory, though, because there's
evidence that there was moneyexchanged between you two, but
it's their word against yours,and they've already created this
narrative for how many years ofwhatever that you don't like
them and you're this and you'rethat.
Believe me, we we've.
I think everybody can relate tothat, but it's disgusting when
(25:46):
people crap all over a veryprecious relationship that you
hold dear to your heart.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Right.
And then you know, after shepassed, it was three months
later he was like, oh, I got totell you about the will and all
this stuff.
And then you know it's in thebook, book.
But they, he played thenastiest, nastiest, yeah, I
can't even say it's a joke like.
And he was like, oh, she left,you know everybody, a million
dollars apiece and she had a lotof money, but you wouldn't have
(26:12):
known it.
And I was like I don't want it,I don't want the money, I want
my grandmother back and that'swhat I kept saying.
I was like I want her.
No amount of money is gonnabring her back, it's not gonna
make anything better.
I don't want it.
And he was like, well, it'sgonna be in a trust and when you
turn 25 you'll get it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, blah, blah,blah.
And he let this go.
I mean, he even had paperworkdone and this one on for months
and then one day he was likewhat are you gonna do when you
(26:33):
get this money?
And I'm like I don't know, Idon't know, I just want my
grandmother back.
And he was like well, and thenmonths later he's like have you
looked at a new car?
And I'm like no, and then he'slike why you're gonna get all
this money?
And I was like I don't care.
And then he comes back later onand says it was an april fool's
joke.
And I'm like how in the hellcan you consciously make a joke
(26:54):
not only about your mother, butone of the greatest human beings
to walk on this planet?
And you think it's funny, likeyou think that's funny.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
And it's cruel anyway .
It's funny, like you thinkthat's funny and it's cruel
anyway.
It's cruel anyway to toy withsomebody like that Because even
if it was just $1,000 for somepeople, that could like make or
break their ability to pay rentand if they're counting on that
money coming and being told Imean that's just sick.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Well, and not just that.
But I mean she had told me thatyou know she was going to make
sure that she left me certainthings and I was like I want the
memories.
I want to look at that piece offurniture, remember how I used
to play hide and seek and putlike things in there that are
still there today.
Because those are the thingsand I would never sell it, never
.
That's what I want.
I want the memories, and so Ididn't get any of it.
(27:40):
He kept everything.
He never probated the will, soI can't get it.
I don't have my way of findingout what's in it.
I know that nothing wasdistributed the way it was
supposed to be.
He kept all of it and I know heeven kept money that my
biological mother didn't knowwas was left.
I mean, and it's just like IDon't understand how you lay
(28:01):
your bed in bed at night and putyour head down and go to sleep.
I just don't, because it's itdoesn't make sense to me.
I would rather have a roof overmy head and clothes on my, my
husband and child and food intheir stomach and have a comfy,
cozy home than live in an empty,heartless, lifeless house or
(28:21):
mansion as our parents well,that's the thing, though.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
They like to have all their stuff, their, their
prestigious.
You know status perception, youknow life.
They have to be perceived asbeing so much better than
everybody by having all thiscrap right so that.
But they're gonna.
I mean, I once told my mother Isaid your husband's going to
(28:45):
die very, very alone unlessyou're around.
Just be by his side, and thenyou're probably going to die
pretty alone too because of allthe people that you have, you
know, lost in this big mess ofstaying with him.
So you know, to each their own,and that's the one thing that's
really hard.
I would never expect somebody tothink how I think or believe
(29:06):
what I believe, but when itcomes to just basic humanity,
basic human kindness andcourtesy, I will never
understand and thankfully so howa narcissist operates and how
they completely justify how theyare.
So I mean, hopefully that helpsanybody listening.
(29:28):
I mean, any question you havewe can explain them.
We can give you the why.
We can make you understand.
You know what your best courseof action is in response.
But you know what You're notgoing to change these people,
and I have said it a milliontimes.
I know that you believe thesame thing, Victoria.
The only way to have peace isto not have them in your life.
(29:50):
They will continue to tormentyou.
You might get brief periods,like in my former marriage to a
narcissist 25 years.
Oh, I'll be better, I promise.
I promise this.
The longest he could ever gowas 10 days, and what's sad is
that I never shared that withanybody.
And when my son was, well, ourson I just say my son, cause
(30:11):
he's mine, I don't want toacknowledge the other but but my
son came to me, he was maybe 10, 11 years old and he goes.
Oh, this again he goes.
Dad, can't last longer than aweek.
You know being good, and I'mjust like gosh this is a child
saying this and I, I, I give himthe 10 days.
He usually could go, 10 daysbeing nice, but then then, yeah,
(30:35):
the volcano would blow and allhell would break loose and the
earth would be set on fire.
So it never lasts.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
And I tried.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
I was on that hamster wheel for 25 years and it never
changed until I got off.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
So Did you ever experience with your narcissist
that they had to like everythingwas materialistic, Like, for
instance, they?
They bought an RV, right, sothey could go wherever.
And when they would tellsomebody they bought an rv, it
wasn't oh, we just got an rv, itwas a we have, like.
(31:08):
I don't even know the brand.
I knew when they told me whatit was.
I don't remember the name of itthey have to impress people,
right.
But then it was not only thisbrand, but it is the ralph
lorraine platinum edition, andthat was always stated.
It was not.
It's just this yeah, it's theRalph Lauren platinum edition
(31:29):
and it's like absolutely.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
But again, everything a narcissist says is to bait
people into giving themadmiration, adoration and praise
, as if they really do thinkthey're fricking gods.
I mean my favorite and it'sactually funny.
But I always hated my motherand her stupid Christmas
newsletters.
I actually like readingpeople's Christmas newsletters,
(31:54):
but just not hers.
At one point I even told herstop putting me and my son in
them because she wasn't sayingnice things.
And well, half the crap shesaid wasn't even true and I was
just like please keep me out ofthis.
But one year she put in therethat her husband bought a new.
And again it just like what youwere saying and that's what
(32:16):
brought it up.
It was a new Corvette, like thenewest one, but he bought it
and I can't even remember RustyWallace, I guess is some big car
racer.
That shows how much I know hebought it from Rusty Wallace.
This guy owned it first and nowit was his.
But she put in the newsletterwe paid whatever amount of
(32:38):
dollars.
She actually said how muchmoney they paid, as if this was
going to impress people.
And then at a Christmas partyafter that, somebody you know to
be nice was like oh, I readyour Christmas newsletter heard
about.
You know the car and thisjackass.
(32:58):
My stepfather, needless to say,is an extremely overt, over the
effing top narcissist.
He does not hold back and he'snot shy in any way, tells this
relative, this aunt of mine ohyeah, and we paid this much.
You'd never be able to affordany kind of vehicle like that.
And she had the same expressionyou have right now.
(33:20):
But that's how he is, is.
He is so audacious it sometimesit comes off as funny and
people often think he's funnybecause he's entertaining, if
nothing else.
But after growing up with that,like I'm so over the
obnoxiousness.
And, by the way, his firstCorvette, because he has owned
(33:43):
multiple, his first Corvette heever bought.
And I don't remember if thisended up in the book, because
you know how it is writing abook, you put stuff in you take
stuff out all the revising, buthis very first one it was a
Sunday morning, like early, like6, 7 am on a Sunday morning and
you hear somebody blaring a carhorn outside Sunday morning and
(34:06):
you hear somebody blaring a carhorn outside.
And you know, this was back inlike late seventies, early
eighties when people actuallylike did go to church on Sunday
or slept in because nothing wasopen on Sunday.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Right.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
And my mom and I look out the window and it's her
jackass husband going down thestreet in his new Corvette
because he wanted to haunt andhe did not get off that horn.
Everybody was looking outbecause he wanted everybody to
see him in this Corvette andeverybody did.
Everybody saw him and he didn'teven care that he was waking up
(34:34):
like the whole damn town.
I swear to God, that's, that'snarcissistic behavior.
That's a typical overtnarcissist.
A lot of them are obsessed withstatus, like the name brands
and status symbols and high endthings, and they can take that.
I mean I'm not going to lie.
I mean I can appreciatesomething that's high end.
(34:54):
Oftentimes often not always itis of a higher quality that I
can't normally always indulge in.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
it's nice to have those things, but I wouldn't go
rub it in everybody's face orput it in the Christmas
newsletter right, no, like hehad somebody who would detail
cars for him and you know he hadthe expensive cars and it's
just like, all right, it's gonnaget you from point a to point b
.
And he's like you're a seniorexecutive and you're in your
early 20s, you should be drivinga brand new Lexus and I'm like,
(35:24):
you make the payment, I'm stillnot going to drive it, like you
know.
No, and he turned around andthe guy was our age and so,
really nice guy, you know justhard worker.
I guess you could just say bluecollar, no nice guy, never
(35:45):
going to be able to afford a carthat he was detailing.
But that doesn't mean anythingto me, I'd still go say hey, do
you need a bottle of water, doyou want a drink Coke, whatever.
And I remember distinctly hecalls me up and he is just fit
to be tied and I'm like what iswrong with you today?
(36:06):
Like what is it today?
And he's like you're nevergoing to believe this.
There was a lot of times Iwould just put the phone on
speaker and put it down, becausethat's just what I did, and he
was like you're never going tobelieve this.
And then he was like so-and-sois dead and I was like what?
I was like he was just here aweek ago and he was like, yeah,
(36:26):
and the bastard did not finishmy cars and I paid him ahead of
time, oh my gosh.
And I couldn't make this up.
And I was like wait, are youwhat?
And he was like I paid himahead of time because he was a
single dad and he was doingsomething for his son.
(36:47):
And he said, hey, I'll be backnext weekend.
Do you think you could go aheadand give me what you know
you'll owe me for the rest andI'll come back?
Now this is somebody that I'veknown at least 20 years, like at
least, and when.
Ok, now, he was never on time.
But if he said he was going tobe there that day unless
(37:09):
something happened, he was there, right, so OK.
And he's like I swear.
And he's like cursing andeverything.
And I'm like, hey, hey, wait,wait, wait, wait.
Did I miss where you just saidhe died?
And he's like, yeah, he had aheart attack and and I didn't
get the rest of my work done,and he has my money.
And I'm like, okay, I'm justcurious and I'm probably going
(37:32):
to regret asking this, but like,what are we talking about?
He's like I gave him $50.
And I'm like you are such aslimeless bastard, my gosh.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
You know what?
And I'm thinking, I mean, evenif it was a few hundred, even if
it, like the guy, died it's notlike he wanted to or tried to,
Right.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
I'm going to avoid him by dying.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Yeah, like I don't know, but that's just so.
That sounds typicallynarcissistic.
Somebody the offense to themthat this person would be so
bold as to die.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Oh to them that this person would be so bold as to
die.
Oh my gosh, how dare you right.
And then the money went to thekid who goes.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
I'm gonna ask the kid for the money back.
Oh my god, you can't do that dothat he has.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
The kid is not graduated high school.
The kid is living, or wasliving, alone with his dad and
his dad did a hell of a good jobraising this kid.
And you're gonna have theaudacity and I was like, why
isn't this surprising, like, andhe's like somebody needs to
give me this back.
You walk around with a lot ofbenjamin franklin's like this
(38:38):
everywhere you go and you areliterally got your song in an
uproar because somebody took a$50 bill from you.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
He would so get along with my stepfather.
It was the same thing, pennypincher his money, his money,
his money.
Nobody else could spend it.
You know, even my mother wentwithout health insurance for a
long time, and God forbid Ineeded to go to the doctor for
anything.
He always had health insurance,though, and he went for regular
exams, but God forbid any.
(39:11):
I remember going to theemergency room once, and I never
I probably still to this daywould be hearing about him
getting the bill for what theinsurance didn't cover on that,
because my boyfriend took me tothe emergency room.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
That's what blows my mind, and Faith is like I don't
understand, because we're goodpeople and all we try to do is
help people and pay it forwardand he's never had anything
health wise.
And I'm like, you're right, youknow, like I've noticed that
too.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
Every narcissist I know is just walking Like
they're going to live tillthey're 100.
These a-holes.
And then there's people justlike fighting for their next
breath.
There's children that aresuffering and dying and people
dying to young good people, andI told you before what, living
backwards yeah it's evil, yeah,right.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
And my, my egg donor used to turn around say I'm
Peter Pan, I'm gonna liveforever.
And one day I looked at Faithand Faith looked at me and goes
I think she's right.
And I'm like but you know, Igotta find the picture faith
drew a picture of for herBecause she called her Mimi,
because everything was about her, so it was all Mimi, mimi.
(40:23):
And so she Drew a picture.
I had a gorgeous picture madeof her and her grandfather and,
hand to God, he put it in frontof the trash cans in the garage
Like huge canvas painting.
And he put it in front of thetrash cans in the garage.
And so Faith was a littleperturbed and so she drew a
(40:45):
picture.
I have it somewhere.
And so she drew a picture Ihave it somewhere and she showed
it to me.
And then she showed it to herand she goes I don't get it.
And Faith looks at me and goesis she serious?
And I was like, yeah, it is agrandma looking down at her
(41:06):
grandchild who is, who isholding a bucket.
And she says kick it, kick thebucket.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Oh, yikes, and that's I mean, that's, that's sad.
I just, I don't know what tosay to that Cause.
I mean, if that's how, you makeyour grandchild feel.
Yeah, yeah, I understand that,but I mean any child should not
feel that way, like I mean, likepeople often condemn me for
allowing.
(41:39):
Although my son is 21, I can'treally allow him much anymore.
He's a grown young man.
But yeah, I allowed him to havea relationship with them
because I understood that theabuse and that mistreatment was
specifically to me because I wasthe unwanted child that my
(42:00):
mother had to carry out, whileshe didn't have to.
She chose to carry shame abouthaving me as a teenager and it
was my fault for making myselfapparently an existing that I
infringed upon her life.
But you know, I am glad thatthey at least put on their fake
(42:20):
BS facade, like they do witheveryone else, for my son,
because my son actually he seeshis grandparents for what they
are, but they are not cruel ormean to him.
You know, I mean there's thingsI have taken issues with, but
you know, for the most partthey're as good as they're going
(42:42):
to be towards somebody, to him,and narcissists are very good
at that.
That's how they fool people.
That's how in romanticrelationships and friendships,
they fool us in the beginningand lure us in with their charm
and all their crap, but yeah.
But to have a grandparent thatwould do that put that picture
out in the garbage, I mean Iwould never.
I would never think to do thatto any child that drew a picture
(43:07):
for me.
That's so sad.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
They've always been, always.
They never want to spend timewith her, never want to do
anything with her, unless it wasmy bio dad, and it was, you
know, the excuse to use us tohave an excuse to go out with us
to see other women, and thatwas awful, you know.
I mean, she's an amazing kidwho has fought and fought and
fought, and they, just you knowI mean, she's an amazing kid who
(43:29):
has fought and fought andfought, and they, just you know
they're lost, they told her thatyou know, like if I died on the
or table, that it would be noloss and that they don't love me
.
And they told her that and youknow, I mean, and she's like you
are so opposite of them and Isaid I give you everything I
ever wanted, never got.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
A hundred percent.
That's what I did with my son,and I think that's what a lot of
people do, which is why when Iam asked oh, were your parents
abused as children?
I say yes, in fact, they wereterribly, terribly both of that.
Well, when I say parents, Imean stepfather and mother,
because they're the ones whoraised me, but that is not an
(44:08):
excuse, because after what Iwent through, after what you
went through.
I made a choice.
Number one I made a choice notto have kids.
But then my biological clocksaid yeah, maybe we do want one
anyway.
And I made a choice when I heldmy son.
Well, before he even came outof my womb he was going to know
(44:29):
that he was loved.
No, matter what, no matter how,I would never, ever let us have
an estranged relationship.
And I just don't understandpeople that perpetuate these
cycles and people can say, oh,they don't know any different,
they don't know any better.
You know what?
I was five years old, going toplay with the other little kids
on the block, and I could seehow their moms and dads treated
(44:51):
them and their grandmas andgrandpas and whoever else I was.
Nobody was perfect.
Well, a few of them seem to be,but you know, we know how that
goes.
But at the end of the day, Iknew what was going on in my
house wasn't right.
I knew their relationshipwasn't right.
I knew how they treated mewasn't right and I was not going
to put another child, nevermindmy own, through the same crap
(45:14):
that I went through.
So I don't buy all that.
Oh, if they were abused, thatexplains it.
Or I don't know any better,they don't know any better.
Bull effing S.
That's right.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
No, no, I didn't have .
Any times I've heard frompeople say you know, but they
were abused, so that explains it.
That doesn't give the right tothem to pass it on.
That's why you break the cycle,you know, stop playing that
freaking victim card, becausethat is not okay.
Well, everybody wants an excuse.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
Everybody wants an excuse because it gives them a
way out, because then they don't.
They don't have trauma to heal,because that's what abuse is.
It's somebody else's unhealedtrauma that they're not willing
to deal with or acknowledge.
So they put it on somebody else.
And I don't know about you, butI've traced my crap back eight
generations and I am carryingeight generations of bull crap.
(46:03):
No, I put that crap, I finallyhave been able to put it down.
And it's not easy, the burdenon us to undo all that stuff,
but it's so much.
It's so much better to gothrough the healing, which is
nasty and awful, to be able toundo all that stuff.
And is it all completely gone?
No, I'm still, you know, stillhave a smear of crap here and
(46:27):
there once in a while that Inotice, and I got to wipe that
up, clean that up.
But my God, and somebody told mesomething interesting, though
this was very recently.
She said you think you're thecycle breaker, but you're not.
She says it's actually you arethe one that decided the cycle
(46:47):
should be broken.
But we'll see if it really iswith your son, with your
children and grandchildren.
I thought, oh crap, so goodthing that my son lives nearby
and as much as I don't want tolive in this god-awful state,
I'm going to stay around becausehe doesn't think I do anything
all day at home.
You know, I'm home all daydoing nothing.
I I don't actually work, butthat's fine for him to think
(47:09):
that, because he's asked me whenhe has children if I could, you
know, be his free babysitter.
So I'm like that's all good, Iwill be their primary caretaker.
So I will ensure that damncycle is broken.
That chain will be broken.
Speaker 2 (47:28):
There will be nothing , no remainders left of it on my
little grandbabies, and they'regoing to call me glamour
because you know, like glamour,yeah, glamour.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
You know we're gonna all wear lipstick and have our
lashes and all our nails donegive me a hot grandma I'm sure I
was gonna go for you know,spicy mamacita or something, but
that's a lot for a two-year-old.
So I figured glamour is we canstart with that.
So that's too cute.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
I can just see like little matching pajama day and
all sorts of cuteness.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
Oh, goodness, oh yeah , and they can't stop me.
We're going to go have lots offun and do lots of fun things,
because I mean, that's what Itried to do.
Well, I and I did do that withmy son as much as I could within
that marriage to his father,which was not fun, but with the
grandkids I'm gonna be just, I'mgonna have it's gonna be all
balls out.
(48:15):
So it's exciting okay well, webetter answer some questions,
because people have been writingin.
Speaker 2 (48:23):
Probably we have been answering some.
Oh, have we okay?
Well, hopefully yeah, and thenext one, we're gonna do nothing
but answer questions.
Okay, that's what we're gonnado on the next one, so, but
we're gonna.
We're gonna get these back outmore routinely, since we had to.
Yes, we'll say this is ourseason two, because we took a
little break there yeah, and weapologize.
Speaker 1 (48:44):
You know illness is going around after christmas and
just I mean schedules and it'sjust been a whole lot of but I
think everybody understandsjanuary.
It was a very long january butwe will be back we all need to
breathe.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
We'll be back soon, soon, soon, soon yes, I'm
looking forward to it yes, sokeep all of the questions and
comments coming in and we willget to all of them yes, we will
keep listening.
Speaker 1 (49:19):
Share these episodes with your friends, with anybody
else who you think might relate,because that's the best way to
help them out is for us to letthem know instead of you,
because if you do it, it's kindof confrontational or they may
take offense or be embarrassedor ashamed, and we want
everybody to feel the love, soshare this please listen next
time, and we'll see you then.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
Bye.
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