May 4, 2023 • 23 mins
Meet Charlotte and Mark. One cold winter day they were looking out their window at the snow and thinking about NJ taxes and knew it was time. These serial entrepreneurs, an ex-celebrant and ex-tech company owner, headed to Mexico and started their most unique creative business in Baja. Listen in - a very creative story.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
The risk takers, innovators, business owners, and there are a couple.
(00:15):
Welcome to a couple of entrepreneurs, a series about couples who start a business together
without ending their relationship.
Hear their unique stories, get tips, advice, and the secret to their success.
Would you work with your spouse?
Hosted by Micki and Tony, a couple of entrepreneurs.
(00:36):
Co-founders of Branding Shorts.
A couple of serial entrepreneurs, an escape from New Jersey, and the freedom they found
in Mexico to discover their true calling.
Meet Charlotte and Mark, owners of Orange Lightwave Entertainment.
Coming to us from Baja, Mexico.
(00:57):
Welcome to the show.
Thank you.
So nice to be here.
You know that we are transplants from the East Coast, from the New York, New Jersey area.
So everybody's going to want to know how the hell we got down here and why.
So we'll talk about that.
So tell us, what do you guys do?
(01:19):
I am a poet, published writer, author, director of the Baja Sir Poet and Writer League.
I am the co-founder of the Celeron Foundation, an institute that I started up in New York
a long time ago and New Jersey.
I sold my business three years ago to my partner and now I spend time with Charlotte.
(01:46):
We do events, poetry, and I do music.
So you guys do events together?
Yes, we do events together.
We are serial entrepreneur couples.
We've done this many, many times.
This is something that we did when we first met each other in 2002 on Match.com.
Yes, they put us together.
From the very get-go, Mark started helping me with my fledgling business, which was the
(02:10):
Celeron Foundation and Institute.
And it is a school that teaches people to become ceremony and ritual makers.
And it became a new career for a lot of people, a full-time career for people who would marry,
do personalized weddings and funerals and everything in between.
We started off in 2002 and Mark was helping us with the technology because he had a company
(02:34):
called Bulging Brain Technologies, which Mark and I once again named.
And Mark said to me, hey, when we were dating, I want to take your class because I want to
be closer to you.
I want to do things with you.
I want our lives to be something that we are working together.
A lot of us people who are couple entrepreneurs, we realize right away when either spouses
(02:56):
or partners or people in our life are going to pick us up and we're going to be moving
forward and we're going to be dancing together.
We don't know what the dance will be, but we know that we will dip or we'll jump or
we'll do things together and we know the other person has our hand.
We've known each other for many, many years.
And I know you guys had a lot of crossover, a lot of businesses.
(03:20):
You had an invention for a pet business.
You are serial entrepreneurs in that way too.
They talked a lot about the business they had.
What about the business today?
There came a time when we were in New Jersey and we're looking out our window at a whole
bunch of snow and the taxes in Montclair, New Jersey were going up, up, up.
And we said, you know, I think there might be some place, another great adventure we
(03:42):
should take a look at.
We looked at different places together and then one time we came down to the Baja to
see a friend.
Mark said to me, this place is great.
What if we just call it a day in New Jersey?
Let's give it a try.
Let's, you know, move down here, buy something and what's the worst thing that can happen?
We decided to pack it up and sell our house, get rid of everything practically that we
(04:09):
have, which I would highly recommend that people do that at least once in their life.
All that stuff they've accumulated, have an opportunity to purge it all and start from
scratch.
Since we sold both our businesses, we wanted to, we wanted to be active in the community.
So Charlotte started a arts and writers league and then we do events and poetry and music
(04:30):
together.
We just teamed up because with her skill and my skill with the music, it thought it would
be a nice easy transition into the area down here that allows a lot of artists to work.
How do you mix it?
Like there's poetry and music at an event?
Yeah, so what we do is Charlotte will gather a couple of poets together and then she'll
go over the poetry that she wants to do and then I'll set up the music and sound system
(04:54):
and I'll do Flamenco and classical and then I have a musical band that I work with and
I'll have a few guys.
So what we do is we integrate it, we infuse, where we'll play and then she'll read poetry
and then she'll lead it into a musical thing and then I'll play a little while and then
some of the poets will read while we play in the background and then she'll do it in
both English and Spanish and then people like to come.
(05:15):
They like events here.
Like when you say events, like how do they get people to come to watch you guys?
Like is it a program?
So mainly posters, Facebook, the owners of the establishments also promoted through their
audience and usually they do dinner and then we do the show.
Charlotte sparked this idea of doing poetry and music together.
So there's a restaurant tour here in town that during the time of COVID was actually
(05:40):
suffering with this business as I'm sure it was happening all over and Mark said, hey,
you know, I can play a little Flamenco for you, a little Flamenco on guitar.
Well, you have a few tables there and then all of a sudden people started coming out
and then there's a lot of people here that enjoy poetry and theater and dance.
The audience that you guys have is it, I mean, you're in Mexico.
(06:02):
So like, is it all English speaking?
Is it Spanish speaking?
Is it what we have a lot of tourists so the town is big in tourism.
So I would say our town is a small town and then it probably doubles for tourism throughout
six months of the year.
So what we wind up playing and performing to is locals who are here and tourist, indigenous
(06:24):
Mexican and foreigners like ourselves from Canada or Europe or the United States.
So there's a whole infusion of culture here.
Charlotte does a lot of poetry in Spanish, but I sing in English.
I can't sing in Spanish.
No, you do Maria, Maria, Maria, Maria.
Which is English.
I know.
(06:44):
Okay.
So yeah, but Tony, it's a mixed crowd, but a lot of the Mexicans speak English here too.
Much better than us.
Yeah, much better than us.
I love it that you found this sweet spot in Baja.
That's wonderful.
And there's also a lot of musicians down here, so it's nice to see the musicians getting
together and playing with each other.
(07:04):
Some of the bands that have made their homes here is REM and also from Led Zeppelin, John
Paul Jones had his home here for many years.
So there seems to be a lot of, this is a music mecca.
And it's beautiful here.
No one ever dies.
You live forever.
Right.
No one ever dies.
You live forever.
Then there's surfing and there's yoga.
So those kinds of things in organic gardening.
(07:26):
And then there's horses running down your street with dogs and cows and chickens, so
that whole combo works real well together.
That's great.
And you probably get inspired by a lot of that.
I think what happens is when a couple works together and then if they happen to move together
in selling or moving on their business, there's a natural progression where you want to still
continue doing something.
(07:46):
I don't think you want to stop that.
It started where an owner wanted sort of seem to need assistance and I wasn't playing music,
so since I sold the business I set up play.
I had no cost to get the restaurant going because I liked it and it worked well.
And then what happened is Charlotte said, I would like to do some poetry at some of
your shows and I said that's a good idea.
(08:07):
So she started reading during some of the shows.
And we would do a lot of popular music, you know, like Beatles, Santana.
And then we would take a break and Charlotte would do some readings and we found out people
liked it, right?
Yes.
Yes.
As a matter of fact, if I didn't show up to read one day, they would be very disappointed.
So every Friday night I do read and I do get together with other local writers and I put
(08:31):
together this league and then I create three events a year and then Mark and I will rehearse
and on a piece where I'm reading and he might be doing, you know, flamenco guitar.
So it's all interwoven.
So these pieces are all really not just off the cuff, they're all rehearsed.
And then because she was doing well and they liked it, we started doing shows together.
(08:53):
How long are the shows that you guys do?
An hour and a half.
A long.
Wow.
It's nice and it's not something we really do for a financial thing at this point in
the game, but we do charge.
Is there a name for what you do?
Orange is sort of our color.
So orange light waves.
So that is our umbrella for our emails and things like that.
(09:14):
And I have a little production company that's sort of it.
But yeah.
And then one that is coming up in the summer, in the dog days of summer, we're going to
be doing a production called animale, animal.
Anemale expressed.
So we'll have music that has to do with horse with no name or black magic woman, which is
(09:36):
the animal within us.
And then different writers will come up and they will spoken word and they will read pieces
from their work that have to do with either an animal or the animal spirit.
And then we encourage the people that are coming in to bring their animal spirits with
them, either in their hearts or wherever they want.
(09:57):
So what's so nice about that is we get the town involved.
This is awesome.
And I'm so happy for you guys.
This sounds like so much fun and so creative and so satisfying.
As a couple working together, being together most of the time, what's your work-life balance?
How do you separate personal and business?
You know when Mark is in the garage in the bodega doing rehearsal?
(10:21):
I'm cooking Greek food.
When he's doing his work, I might be doing writing.
And also we're both performing artists.
I think the key is that I think when you recognize what your strengths are for each
person, you let them go with those strengths.
But I think as a couple you have to do that both in love and in friendship and in business.
(10:41):
Because I think that's important.
Because you know, I think you try to bleed over into it, but like, Char's good with the
words and the ideas and the atmosphere.
I'm good with the music and the technical side.
She just let all the technical stuff stay to me.
She didn't jump in.
A lot of clients in the business I had would try to get inside, maybe, but they would try
(11:03):
to get in between and that would cause problems.
I think as a couple, if you know each other's strengths, then you let them go with those
strengths.
And then in business and personal, I mean, I think with us it's all the same when we're
together.
We just also talk about what things we want to do.
We talk a lot together.
And in that sense, I think you have to have a strong bond as individuals.
(11:27):
So it's roles and it's communication.
We come across areas where we disagree in things and we say, well, what should we do
at this level?
I don't really think there are arguments anymore.
I think they're just like, how should we do this?
Or how do you want to approach this?
Let me ask you guys, because we know you guys for a long time, how important is having a
sense of humor?
Big, because I try to do it on stage.
(11:47):
Yeah, he tries.
And sometimes the people down here don't get it because they're mostly West Coast people
and they don't get like the New Jersey humor or the New York humor.
And so it's funny.
He'll say something.
You can see that the East Coast people are all laughing and all the people from California
are sitting there going, what did he say?
That's it.
You know what?
When I used to do stand up, that was Mickey's reaction to me.
(12:09):
What is he talking about?
I was the plant in the audience.
I don't understand one joke you're telling right now.
All right.
I'm just kidding.
I think sense of humor is, I think it's big Tony for everything, right?
I think it really helps stabilize.
I mean, I'm serious about things, but I think with Charlotte and I, I think it's good to
have the sense of humor within the marriage and the business aspect of everything.
(12:34):
So it's good.
So I think Tony's pointed, I think 100% Tony.
You can't take anything too seriously.
You have to be able to laugh at things or anything.
I mean, you take everything seriously because you know, it's like, oh, you wake up today
and you're like, oh, you start talking about, you know, what body part hurts.
You got, you got to laugh about it later.
That's pretty funny.
(12:55):
We were with our friends and Mick told us we were talking and he looked at us one day
a couple of years back before we moved.
He goes, you know, we're in phase three conversation.
I go, what are you talking about?
He goes, you hear the conversation, you're talking about your calling, how it hurts.
And then you're talking about what operation you had and who's sick.
I go, what's phase one?
He goes, oh, when you're, when you're dating and you're in high school and the boy or woman
(13:17):
you're dating, what's phase two?
He goes, that when you buy a house and you have kids, I go, now we're in phase three.
He goes, yeah, I go, can I go back?
He goes, nope.
He goes, you're in phase three.
So you have to have humor in it.
Speaking about phase three, a lot of people thought when we, when I passed my business
on the Sullivan Foundation and Mark sold his business right around this whole time of 2020,
(13:40):
right?
People said, oh, are you retiring?
And I'm like, no, we're advancing.
There are things that we really wanted to do in our life that we love from the past and
also things that we brought with us to the point we are right now.
Our skills, our passions.
So I always was writing.
Even I always found a job where I could write.
(14:02):
Like even the fact that I was the director of the Sullivan Foundation, I needed to write.
And Mark would always, every night, play guitar and do classical and flamenco.
So when we came down here, when we are, our nine to five went to the wayside and we're
not doing nine to five, not doing 45, 50 hour weeks anymore at work.
All of a sudden when we said, we're not doing that anymore, some people go, oh, shit, you
(14:26):
know, oh, we're not doing it.
It takes some kind of person, their personal aspect of themselves away from them.
But we said, this is such an opportunity for Mark to delve into his music and for me to
delve into our writing and then do things again all over again.
And then keep the sense of humor about it.
And keep the sense of humor and enjoy.
(14:47):
So I want everybody out there to know that even after you do your businesses, so to speak,
there's always something on the other side of the rainbow that you can do together that
is very much helpful to the community, but it feeds your soul.
And it's taken our relationship to even another level.
You have to be malleable.
You have to let things expand the way they need to.
(15:09):
When I play music, you go in with an intent, but then all personalities create something
a little different.
Ten years ago, did you guys think you would be living in Mexico doing poetry and playing
music together?
No way.
Not at all.
I think what happened for us is, for me, because I was full-time musician and tourer
around the country for many years, and then I went into computers afterwards, that just
(15:32):
sat dormant.
And I always played.
And then Charles said, you should go back into it after you sold your business.
And it's something I always kept.
So I think the talents we have inside and all our interests at this point in our life,
you're right, Tony, I never thought I'd be playing living in Mexico or anything.
And there's life.
There's the whole thing that if.
We came down on a whim from a friend said, come visit me for a week.
(15:54):
And then we liked it and we wanted to move.
But yeah, I never thought I'd be doing that.
We're adventurous, though.
We're like, hey, let's try something.
And what's the worst I can have?
You know, do it.
I mean, just long as you're not jumping out of a plane without an parachute.
It's so funny.
Your plans for your future is like a straight line, but then the future has a mind of its
(16:17):
own and it's a scribble to get somewhere else to take you on this other journey.
You know, but the thing is too, is like, if you didn't take those other steps, you wouldn't
get there.
Right.
If you didn't see your friend in Mexico.
So it's not like there is a plan, right?
You just don't know what it is sometimes.
It's like, you're right on that plan because the town we happen to wind up in, which is
down here in Mexico is very artsy, but we didn't move here for that.
(16:41):
We moved here for the tranquility of it, the difference in its culture, the, you know,
the, the dustiness of it.
I think we didn't realize it, but maybe subliminally we saw this culture in this town and here
it is allowing us to do what we, we like to do.
And I would say this place more so than many other places.
(17:03):
So therefore it allowed me to go back into the music and her, the writing, maybe somehow
it is in the back.
Like you don't think about it in the beginning.
Maybe it's something you recognize and then it leads you there.
The way you said it was really interesting.
It's like, it's like you, you're a musician and but you, it laid dormant for a while,
right?
(17:24):
You were doing all your tech is still there.
And so somehow there was this connection when you guys were there, when you came there,
like, well, this does connect.
You may have thought about it subconsciously.
It's like, but I like it.
I feel it.
And that's why you had this great background.
Right.
And I think those are the visceral feelings you get when something doesn't resonate with
you or it does when you, but you don't know what it is.
(17:44):
You know, that inner feeling or something.
But I think that because we had our businesses, I think we see it in a professional way and
the latter in a professional way.
We do it in the most professional way we can.
And I see a lot of people here not to say good things or bad things, but I think your
business background will allow you to lead into something else in a professional way
that you would not have done if you didn't have that experience.
(18:06):
I think you don't get upset about things too often because you've been through it so many
times before and you've had that professional experience.
So I think by having the time together, which we've been together for 20 years and doing
it, we've done so many things together that even whatever our hopes and dreams are for
the future, we know that we're going to do them together with love and joy.
(18:27):
That's beautiful.
Oh, it's good because you guys are trusting your experience when you make these decisions
professionally, but you're trusting your gut.
Your gut is saying like, so there's, it's like two different levels, right?
It's like, there's a lot of people that are like, well, I have this gut feeling, but I
shouldn't do it.
There's this third eye on their shoulder saying, don't do that.
Don't do that.
But your gut saying, well, I really think I should.
And you're like, no, I can't do that because someone told me I'd never do that.
(18:48):
Right?
It's the kind of thing, right?
Although we miss friends and family here a lot, when you move to a new place, you're
not defined by family boundaries or things that might have defined you in the past.
And I noticed that when I was touring on, when I toured for many years in bands, that
people have an expectation of who you are and that can either enhance you or maybe
(19:11):
limit you in some way.
But here you're, it's different.
You meet new people.
You're anonymous.
And you're, yeah.
And you're just, you're, and you're, you're being, you're, and I think that allows you
in some way for Charlotte to, to just be yourself without having any restrictions, if that makes
sense.
And I didn't realize that till some time in when I was touring back then, I'm like, oh,
I'm not, you know, people don't know us or know me.
(19:33):
Yeah.
So it's, it's kind of liberating.
Yeah.
It's a liberation to it.
But both of you guys have that, you know, from knowing you guys, I mean, you're, you've
been successful entrepreneurs before you did this together, entrepreneurs together, but
it's like you, you both weren't afraid to take risks, right?
You both had kind of that, even before you moved there, that little freedom, like maybe
I, I could try this even though maybe other people wouldn't, right?
Hey, this, I would say, yeah, you are absolutely 100% right.
(19:56):
We mitigated our risks.
I didn't want to do something foolishly in business and in life.
I think that, I think you have to take a good calculated risk, but not foolishly.
So if, if you're talking to young couples, I would say really understand what you're
up against and try to, you know, manage that risk in some sense and going into business
(20:17):
as you guys have is a risk.
How do you do that?
You know, that's a great point.
Like, and that's especially for this podcast, like if people are trying to do this for the
first time, like what do you do to mitigate it?
What you do is you do it slowly and you take it in steps.
You don't eradicate your past.
You move, you take all your steps slowly.
So you work for a business and then you slowly manage into your own business by taking the
(20:37):
skill you had and going slowly in time, starting at part time, starting at night, moving it
slowly.
You don't jump ship.
Yeah.
When you agree.
Exactly.
You don't jump ship.
You do it in a slow manner.
If you want to open a bagel shop, work for a bagel shop and then learn how to make the
bagels and then, you know, get some bagels on the side.
And the way I did it, after I left the music industry, I was teaching and then I was, I
(21:02):
was got into technology and I grabbed one client and two clients on the side and three
clients on the side and four clients on the side and five clients on the side.
And as I was still working on another job.
So I think the best way to mitigate it is to move into it slowly in a calculated way.
That's all.
Because then that allows you to see if it's going to work for you.
Well, you know, if it doesn't work for you and you fail or not fail, but it doesn't work,
(21:23):
you still have something to work with.
Your risk is minimal.
Well, when we came down here, we didn't just come down here and not work.
We had our businesses for seven years.
We were down here working every day as if we were in our offices online nonstop.
So Mark was doing his computer company, his technology company and had his guys running
(21:44):
all over New York and New Jersey, you know, fixing systems.
And I had my school with my teachers that were all over the world and we were doing
the Celebran Foundation with the students.
So then we came to the point and we looked around at this beautiful place.
It's tranquil.
Do we want to be working at this capacity for the rest of our lives?
What do we want to do?
So we said to ourselves, this is the time and place to take it to another level.
(22:07):
What are we going to do?
We don't know.
But we ended up organizing ourselves, figuring out Mark came off of his business first, then
I came off of mine a little bit later because also my mom got real sick.
So I was taking care of her for a while.
So there's things that come up in your life that you have to be prepared for.
So we didn't just jump ship from our companies automatically.
We timed it.
We organized it.
(22:27):
And then we were able to do as we were talking about the music and the poetry and the spoken
word.
It just happened.
You know, but we were tuned in.
We were tuned in and at any point in time, even now, if Mark doesn't want to do something,
I would say to him, don't do it.
What do you want to do next?
Or maybe you don't want to do anything.
We're human beings, right?
(22:47):
We're not human doings.
So we can just be, take a walk out into the desert, go down to the beach with the dog.
But you have to be smart about it because in the world today, like you need some financial
mobility.
Yeah, you do.
Without that.
You need to have that cushion.
You need to be aware.
And so you need to, you have to plan it in some way.
To get some, some financial freedom in that level.
(23:09):
However it works for you.
Thank you guys for being on the show.
This was great.
Our pleasure.
Thank you so much guys.
All right.
Thank you.
Bye.
You're listening to a couple of entrepreneurs, a branding shorts podcast.
Stay tuned for more.
The risk takers, innovators, business owners, and there are a couple.
(00:15):
Welcome to a couple of entrepreneurs, a series about couples who start a business together
without ending their relationship.
Hear their unique stories, get tips, advice, and the secret to their success.
Would you work with your spouse?
Hosted by Micki and Tony, a couple of entrepreneurs.
(00:36):
Co-founders of Branding Shorts.
A couple of serial entrepreneurs, an escape from New Jersey, and the freedom they found
in Mexico to discover their true calling.
Meet Charlotte and Mark, owners of Orange Lightwave Entertainment.
Coming to us from Baja, Mexico.
(00:57):
Welcome to the show.
Thank you.
So nice to be here.
You know that we are transplants from the East Coast, from the New York, New Jersey area.
So everybody's going to want to know how the hell we got down here and why.
So we'll talk about that.
So tell us, what do you guys do?
(01:19):
I am a poet, published writer, author, director of the Baja Sir Poet and Writer League.
I am the co-founder of the Celeron Foundation, an institute that I started up in New York
a long time ago and New Jersey.
I sold my business three years ago to my partner and now I spend time with Charlotte.
(01:46):
We do events, poetry, and I do music.
So you guys do events together?
Yes, we do events together.
We are serial entrepreneur couples.
We've done this many, many times.
This is something that we did when we first met each other in 2002 on Match.com.
Yes, they put us together.
From the very get-go, Mark started helping me with my fledgling business, which was the
(02:10):
Celeron Foundation and Institute.
And it is a school that teaches people to become ceremony and ritual makers.
And it became a new career for a lot of people, a full-time career for people who would marry,
do personalized weddings and funerals and everything in between.
We started off in 2002 and Mark was helping us with the technology because he had a company
(02:34):
called Bulging Brain Technologies, which Mark and I once again named.
And Mark said to me, hey, when we were dating, I want to take your class because I want to
be closer to you.
I want to do things with you.
I want our lives to be something that we are working together.
A lot of us people who are couple entrepreneurs, we realize right away when either spouses
(02:56):
or partners or people in our life are going to pick us up and we're going to be moving
forward and we're going to be dancing together.
We don't know what the dance will be, but we know that we will dip or we'll jump or
we'll do things together and we know the other person has our hand.
We've known each other for many, many years.
And I know you guys had a lot of crossover, a lot of businesses.
(03:20):
You had an invention for a pet business.
You are serial entrepreneurs in that way too.
They talked a lot about the business they had.
What about the business today?
There came a time when we were in New Jersey and we're looking out our window at a whole
bunch of snow and the taxes in Montclair, New Jersey were going up, up, up.
And we said, you know, I think there might be some place, another great adventure we
(03:42):
should take a look at.
We looked at different places together and then one time we came down to the Baja to
see a friend.
Mark said to me, this place is great.
What if we just call it a day in New Jersey?
Let's give it a try.
Let's, you know, move down here, buy something and what's the worst thing that can happen?
We decided to pack it up and sell our house, get rid of everything practically that we
(04:09):
have, which I would highly recommend that people do that at least once in their life.
All that stuff they've accumulated, have an opportunity to purge it all and start from
scratch.
Since we sold both our businesses, we wanted to, we wanted to be active in the community.
So Charlotte started a arts and writers league and then we do events and poetry and music
(04:30):
together.
We just teamed up because with her skill and my skill with the music, it thought it would
be a nice easy transition into the area down here that allows a lot of artists to work.
How do you mix it?
Like there's poetry and music at an event?
Yeah, so what we do is Charlotte will gather a couple of poets together and then she'll
go over the poetry that she wants to do and then I'll set up the music and sound system
(04:54):
and I'll do Flamenco and classical and then I have a musical band that I work with and
I'll have a few guys.
So what we do is we integrate it, we infuse, where we'll play and then she'll read poetry
and then she'll lead it into a musical thing and then I'll play a little while and then
some of the poets will read while we play in the background and then she'll do it in
both English and Spanish and then people like to come.
(05:15):
They like events here.
Like when you say events, like how do they get people to come to watch you guys?
Like is it a program?
So mainly posters, Facebook, the owners of the establishments also promoted through their
audience and usually they do dinner and then we do the show.
Charlotte sparked this idea of doing poetry and music together.
So there's a restaurant tour here in town that during the time of COVID was actually
(05:40):
suffering with this business as I'm sure it was happening all over and Mark said, hey,
you know, I can play a little Flamenco for you, a little Flamenco on guitar.
Well, you have a few tables there and then all of a sudden people started coming out
and then there's a lot of people here that enjoy poetry and theater and dance.
The audience that you guys have is it, I mean, you're in Mexico.
(06:02):
So like, is it all English speaking?
Is it Spanish speaking?
Is it what we have a lot of tourists so the town is big in tourism.
So I would say our town is a small town and then it probably doubles for tourism throughout
six months of the year.
So what we wind up playing and performing to is locals who are here and tourist, indigenous
(06:24):
Mexican and foreigners like ourselves from Canada or Europe or the United States.
So there's a whole infusion of culture here.
Charlotte does a lot of poetry in Spanish, but I sing in English.
I can't sing in Spanish.
No, you do Maria, Maria, Maria, Maria.
Which is English.
I know.
(06:44):
Okay.
So yeah, but Tony, it's a mixed crowd, but a lot of the Mexicans speak English here too.
Much better than us.
Yeah, much better than us.
I love it that you found this sweet spot in Baja.
That's wonderful.
And there's also a lot of musicians down here, so it's nice to see the musicians getting
together and playing with each other.
(07:04):
Some of the bands that have made their homes here is REM and also from Led Zeppelin, John
Paul Jones had his home here for many years.
So there seems to be a lot of, this is a music mecca.
And it's beautiful here.
No one ever dies.
You live forever.
Right.
No one ever dies.
You live forever.
Then there's surfing and there's yoga.
So those kinds of things in organic gardening.
(07:26):
And then there's horses running down your street with dogs and cows and chickens, so
that whole combo works real well together.
That's great.
And you probably get inspired by a lot of that.
I think what happens is when a couple works together and then if they happen to move together
in selling or moving on their business, there's a natural progression where you want to still
continue doing something.
(07:46):
I don't think you want to stop that.
It started where an owner wanted sort of seem to need assistance and I wasn't playing music,
so since I sold the business I set up play.
I had no cost to get the restaurant going because I liked it and it worked well.
And then what happened is Charlotte said, I would like to do some poetry at some of
your shows and I said that's a good idea.
(08:07):
So she started reading during some of the shows.
And we would do a lot of popular music, you know, like Beatles, Santana.
And then we would take a break and Charlotte would do some readings and we found out people
liked it, right?
Yes.
Yes.
As a matter of fact, if I didn't show up to read one day, they would be very disappointed.
So every Friday night I do read and I do get together with other local writers and I put
(08:31):
together this league and then I create three events a year and then Mark and I will rehearse
and on a piece where I'm reading and he might be doing, you know, flamenco guitar.
So it's all interwoven.
So these pieces are all really not just off the cuff, they're all rehearsed.
And then because she was doing well and they liked it, we started doing shows together.
(08:53):
How long are the shows that you guys do?
An hour and a half.
A long.
Wow.
It's nice and it's not something we really do for a financial thing at this point in
the game, but we do charge.
Is there a name for what you do?
Orange is sort of our color.
So orange light waves.
So that is our umbrella for our emails and things like that.
(09:14):
And I have a little production company that's sort of it.
But yeah.
And then one that is coming up in the summer, in the dog days of summer, we're going to
be doing a production called animale, animal.
Anemale expressed.
So we'll have music that has to do with horse with no name or black magic woman, which is
(09:36):
the animal within us.
And then different writers will come up and they will spoken word and they will read pieces
from their work that have to do with either an animal or the animal spirit.
And then we encourage the people that are coming in to bring their animal spirits with
them, either in their hearts or wherever they want.
(09:57):
So what's so nice about that is we get the town involved.
This is awesome.
And I'm so happy for you guys.
This sounds like so much fun and so creative and so satisfying.
As a couple working together, being together most of the time, what's your work-life balance?
How do you separate personal and business?
You know when Mark is in the garage in the bodega doing rehearsal?
(10:21):
I'm cooking Greek food.
When he's doing his work, I might be doing writing.
And also we're both performing artists.
I think the key is that I think when you recognize what your strengths are for each
person, you let them go with those strengths.
But I think as a couple you have to do that both in love and in friendship and in business.
(10:41):
Because I think that's important.
Because you know, I think you try to bleed over into it, but like, Char's good with the
words and the ideas and the atmosphere.
I'm good with the music and the technical side.
She just let all the technical stuff stay to me.
She didn't jump in.
A lot of clients in the business I had would try to get inside, maybe, but they would try
(11:03):
to get in between and that would cause problems.
I think as a couple, if you know each other's strengths, then you let them go with those
strengths.
And then in business and personal, I mean, I think with us it's all the same when we're
together.
We just also talk about what things we want to do.
We talk a lot together.
And in that sense, I think you have to have a strong bond as individuals.
(11:27):
So it's roles and it's communication.
We come across areas where we disagree in things and we say, well, what should we do
at this level?
I don't really think there are arguments anymore.
I think they're just like, how should we do this?
Or how do you want to approach this?
Let me ask you guys, because we know you guys for a long time, how important is having a
sense of humor?
Big, because I try to do it on stage.
(11:47):
Yeah, he tries.
And sometimes the people down here don't get it because they're mostly West Coast people
and they don't get like the New Jersey humor or the New York humor.
And so it's funny.
He'll say something.
You can see that the East Coast people are all laughing and all the people from California
are sitting there going, what did he say?
That's it.
You know what?
When I used to do stand up, that was Mickey's reaction to me.
(12:09):
What is he talking about?
I was the plant in the audience.
I don't understand one joke you're telling right now.
All right.
I'm just kidding.
I think sense of humor is, I think it's big Tony for everything, right?
I think it really helps stabilize.
I mean, I'm serious about things, but I think with Charlotte and I, I think it's good to
have the sense of humor within the marriage and the business aspect of everything.
(12:34):
So it's good.
So I think Tony's pointed, I think 100% Tony.
You can't take anything too seriously.
You have to be able to laugh at things or anything.
I mean, you take everything seriously because you know, it's like, oh, you wake up today
and you're like, oh, you start talking about, you know, what body part hurts.
You got, you got to laugh about it later.
That's pretty funny.
(12:55):
We were with our friends and Mick told us we were talking and he looked at us one day
a couple of years back before we moved.
He goes, you know, we're in phase three conversation.
I go, what are you talking about?
He goes, you hear the conversation, you're talking about your calling, how it hurts.
And then you're talking about what operation you had and who's sick.
I go, what's phase one?
He goes, oh, when you're, when you're dating and you're in high school and the boy or woman
(13:17):
you're dating, what's phase two?
He goes, that when you buy a house and you have kids, I go, now we're in phase three.
He goes, yeah, I go, can I go back?
He goes, nope.
He goes, you're in phase three.
So you have to have humor in it.
Speaking about phase three, a lot of people thought when we, when I passed my business
on the Sullivan Foundation and Mark sold his business right around this whole time of 2020,
(13:40):
right?
People said, oh, are you retiring?
And I'm like, no, we're advancing.
There are things that we really wanted to do in our life that we love from the past and
also things that we brought with us to the point we are right now.
Our skills, our passions.
So I always was writing.
Even I always found a job where I could write.
(14:02):
Like even the fact that I was the director of the Sullivan Foundation, I needed to write.
And Mark would always, every night, play guitar and do classical and flamenco.
So when we came down here, when we are, our nine to five went to the wayside and we're
not doing nine to five, not doing 45, 50 hour weeks anymore at work.
All of a sudden when we said, we're not doing that anymore, some people go, oh, shit, you
(14:26):
know, oh, we're not doing it.
It takes some kind of person, their personal aspect of themselves away from them.
But we said, this is such an opportunity for Mark to delve into his music and for me to
delve into our writing and then do things again all over again.
And then keep the sense of humor about it.
And keep the sense of humor and enjoy.
(14:47):
So I want everybody out there to know that even after you do your businesses, so to speak,
there's always something on the other side of the rainbow that you can do together that
is very much helpful to the community, but it feeds your soul.
And it's taken our relationship to even another level.
You have to be malleable.
You have to let things expand the way they need to.
(15:09):
When I play music, you go in with an intent, but then all personalities create something
a little different.
Ten years ago, did you guys think you would be living in Mexico doing poetry and playing
music together?
No way.
Not at all.
I think what happened for us is, for me, because I was full-time musician and tourer
around the country for many years, and then I went into computers afterwards, that just
(15:32):
sat dormant.
And I always played.
And then Charles said, you should go back into it after you sold your business.
And it's something I always kept.
So I think the talents we have inside and all our interests at this point in our life,
you're right, Tony, I never thought I'd be playing living in Mexico or anything.
And there's life.
There's the whole thing that if.
We came down on a whim from a friend said, come visit me for a week.
(15:54):
And then we liked it and we wanted to move.
But yeah, I never thought I'd be doing that.
We're adventurous, though.
We're like, hey, let's try something.
And what's the worst I can have?
You know, do it.
I mean, just long as you're not jumping out of a plane without an parachute.
It's so funny.
Your plans for your future is like a straight line, but then the future has a mind of its
(16:17):
own and it's a scribble to get somewhere else to take you on this other journey.
You know, but the thing is too, is like, if you didn't take those other steps, you wouldn't
get there.
Right.
If you didn't see your friend in Mexico.
So it's not like there is a plan, right?
You just don't know what it is sometimes.
It's like, you're right on that plan because the town we happen to wind up in, which is
down here in Mexico is very artsy, but we didn't move here for that.
(16:41):
We moved here for the tranquility of it, the difference in its culture, the, you know,
the, the dustiness of it.
I think we didn't realize it, but maybe subliminally we saw this culture in this town and here
it is allowing us to do what we, we like to do.
And I would say this place more so than many other places.
(17:03):
So therefore it allowed me to go back into the music and her, the writing, maybe somehow
it is in the back.
Like you don't think about it in the beginning.
Maybe it's something you recognize and then it leads you there.
The way you said it was really interesting.
It's like, it's like you, you're a musician and but you, it laid dormant for a while,
right?
(17:24):
You were doing all your tech is still there.
And so somehow there was this connection when you guys were there, when you came there,
like, well, this does connect.
You may have thought about it subconsciously.
It's like, but I like it.
I feel it.
And that's why you had this great background.
Right.
And I think those are the visceral feelings you get when something doesn't resonate with
you or it does when you, but you don't know what it is.
(17:44):
You know, that inner feeling or something.
But I think that because we had our businesses, I think we see it in a professional way and
the latter in a professional way.
We do it in the most professional way we can.
And I see a lot of people here not to say good things or bad things, but I think your
business background will allow you to lead into something else in a professional way
that you would not have done if you didn't have that experience.
(18:06):
I think you don't get upset about things too often because you've been through it so many
times before and you've had that professional experience.
So I think by having the time together, which we've been together for 20 years and doing
it, we've done so many things together that even whatever our hopes and dreams are for
the future, we know that we're going to do them together with love and joy.
(18:27):
That's beautiful.
Oh, it's good because you guys are trusting your experience when you make these decisions
professionally, but you're trusting your gut.
Your gut is saying like, so there's, it's like two different levels, right?
It's like, there's a lot of people that are like, well, I have this gut feeling, but I
shouldn't do it.
There's this third eye on their shoulder saying, don't do that.
Don't do that.
But your gut saying, well, I really think I should.
And you're like, no, I can't do that because someone told me I'd never do that.
(18:48):
Right?
It's the kind of thing, right?
Although we miss friends and family here a lot, when you move to a new place, you're
not defined by family boundaries or things that might have defined you in the past.
And I noticed that when I was touring on, when I toured for many years in bands, that
people have an expectation of who you are and that can either enhance you or maybe
(19:11):
limit you in some way.
But here you're, it's different.
You meet new people.
You're anonymous.
And you're, yeah.
And you're just, you're, and you're, you're being, you're, and I think that allows you
in some way for Charlotte to, to just be yourself without having any restrictions, if that makes
sense.
And I didn't realize that till some time in when I was touring back then, I'm like, oh,
I'm not, you know, people don't know us or know me.
(19:33):
Yeah.
So it's, it's kind of liberating.
Yeah.
It's a liberation to it.
But both of you guys have that, you know, from knowing you guys, I mean, you're, you've
been successful entrepreneurs before you did this together, entrepreneurs together, but
it's like you, you both weren't afraid to take risks, right?
You both had kind of that, even before you moved there, that little freedom, like maybe
I, I could try this even though maybe other people wouldn't, right?
Hey, this, I would say, yeah, you are absolutely 100% right.
(19:56):
We mitigated our risks.
I didn't want to do something foolishly in business and in life.
I think that, I think you have to take a good calculated risk, but not foolishly.
So if, if you're talking to young couples, I would say really understand what you're
up against and try to, you know, manage that risk in some sense and going into business
(20:17):
as you guys have is a risk.
How do you do that?
You know, that's a great point.
Like, and that's especially for this podcast, like if people are trying to do this for the
first time, like what do you do to mitigate it?
What you do is you do it slowly and you take it in steps.
You don't eradicate your past.
You move, you take all your steps slowly.
So you work for a business and then you slowly manage into your own business by taking the
(20:37):
skill you had and going slowly in time, starting at part time, starting at night, moving it
slowly.
You don't jump ship.
Yeah.
When you agree.
Exactly.
You don't jump ship.
You do it in a slow manner.
If you want to open a bagel shop, work for a bagel shop and then learn how to make the
bagels and then, you know, get some bagels on the side.
And the way I did it, after I left the music industry, I was teaching and then I was, I
(21:02):
was got into technology and I grabbed one client and two clients on the side and three
clients on the side and four clients on the side and five clients on the side.
And as I was still working on another job.
So I think the best way to mitigate it is to move into it slowly in a calculated way.
That's all.
Because then that allows you to see if it's going to work for you.
Well, you know, if it doesn't work for you and you fail or not fail, but it doesn't work,
(21:23):
you still have something to work with.
Your risk is minimal.
Well, when we came down here, we didn't just come down here and not work.
We had our businesses for seven years.
We were down here working every day as if we were in our offices online nonstop.
So Mark was doing his computer company, his technology company and had his guys running
(21:44):
all over New York and New Jersey, you know, fixing systems.
And I had my school with my teachers that were all over the world and we were doing
the Celebran Foundation with the students.
So then we came to the point and we looked around at this beautiful place.
It's tranquil.
Do we want to be working at this capacity for the rest of our lives?
What do we want to do?
So we said to ourselves, this is the time and place to take it to another level.
(22:07):
What are we going to do?
We don't know.
But we ended up organizing ourselves, figuring out Mark came off of his business first, then
I came off of mine a little bit later because also my mom got real sick.
So I was taking care of her for a while.
So there's things that come up in your life that you have to be prepared for.
So we didn't just jump ship from our companies automatically.
We timed it.
We organized it.
(22:27):
And then we were able to do as we were talking about the music and the poetry and the spoken
word.
It just happened.
You know, but we were tuned in.
We were tuned in and at any point in time, even now, if Mark doesn't want to do something,
I would say to him, don't do it.
What do you want to do next?
Or maybe you don't want to do anything.
We're human beings, right?
(22:47):
We're not human doings.
So we can just be, take a walk out into the desert, go down to the beach with the dog.
But you have to be smart about it because in the world today, like you need some financial
mobility.
Yeah, you do.
Without that.
You need to have that cushion.
You need to be aware.
And so you need to, you have to plan it in some way.
To get some, some financial freedom in that level.
(23:09):
However it works for you.
Thank you guys for being on the show.
This was great.
Our pleasure.
Thank you so much guys.
All right.
Thank you.
Bye.
You're listening to a couple of entrepreneurs, a branding shorts podcast.
Stay tuned for more.
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