September 13, 2025 • 54 mins
Join Pastor Jared and Charles as they discuss the august sermon series, Joyful. The world is broken but how can we use this series to have joy in the midst of difficult times? Listen and find out how!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Welcome and thanks for joining us on the Blue Chair
Podcast, brought to you by aFresh Wind Church.
Each month we discuss thelatest sermons from the
perspective of the Blue Chairs.
Hello and welcome to the BlueChair Podcast.
I am Pastor Jared and with me,as always, we've got Charles
Magar Say what's up.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
How is it going, everybody?
Speaker 1 (00:37):
It has been a week, let me tell you we are recording
this September Friday,september 12th.
We are going to cover JoyfulPart 2, the second half of the
Joyful series.
It's our summer series goingthrough Philippians on September
(00:58):
12th, so it's the perfectsermon to cover in in this
moment.
Honestly, we are um the world'sin turmoil and it's all right
in front of our face.
I mean, we've got Nepal.
There's a lot of stuffhappening there, um, there's
protests and other things goingon in um France and other parts
(01:22):
of Europe.
We've got September 11th.
That was yesterday, 24 yearssince September 11th.
Charlie Kirk shot and murderedwhile speaking at a college in
Utah.
A couple school shootings thisweek, one literally CNN's
flipping back and forth betweenCharlie Kirk and a school
(01:45):
shooting.
And we're going to talk aboutjoy today.
And if you listened to ourpodcast last month talking about
the first part of joyful andwhat joy is and what it means to
be joyful, the biggest partabout joy is that it is present
regardless of the circumstances.
(02:06):
And so, setting aside CharlieKirk's politics, right, that's
the biggest thing in the newsright now.
Everyone's talking about it,everyone's feeling it.
The man loved God and professedGod everywhere, every time he
was on stage that I've seen.
He talked about God.
You may not agree with himpolitically, you could be on the
(02:29):
completely opposite side of thespectrum, but the man was still
a brother in Christ, and soit's rough.
It's rough.
The man had two kids, a wife.
How do we find joy in thosemoments?
How do we exist?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
and be happy.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Like, have that joyful feeling.
It's hard, it is sometimes, butwhat do we do in those moments?
I think, jumping right intoweek 10, tim preached it ready
to rejoice.
It says rejoice always, commandto rejoice in the Lord, not
circumstances.
Joy anchored in Jesus' presencepromises and work, and it's
(03:15):
visible through his graciousness.
And so find where in our liveswe have graciousness and find
where we've received God'sgraciousness.
It is a weird thing, I don'tknow.
I'm rambling a little bit.
What are you thinking?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
No, I mean even another note in one of Tim's
sermons.
I mean it goes kind of with whatyou were saying, but it stems
off of his notes on Romans 12.
But he had a comment that joy issustained by a disciplined mind
, that Paul urges us to fill ourthoughts with what is true,
honorable and praiseworthy,rather than letting our minds be
(03:57):
consumed by negativity orfalsehood.
And I know it's hard, like whenall these things are going on,
like obviously none of these arepositive things right, like
we're surrounded by thesenegative things happening in our
lives.
But something that you knowI've been trying to train myself
on and allow the spirit to helpme work it out, is like not
letting these negative thoughtsthat are presented to us on a
(04:19):
daily basis, you know, takecontrol of my mind, because for
a long time that's that's whereI used to be.
I used to, you know, takecontrol of my mind, because for
a long time that's where I usedto be.
I used to, you know, dwell inthat negativity instead of, you
know, taking control of it andcasting that out and realizing
that, despite what negativethings are in the world, you
know I have to trust in God,that you know he's doing what
needs to be done.
(04:40):
We have to know that God'ssovereign and he's in control of
everything.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Amen.
I mean, I'm looking up theverse now so I have the actual
address when I mention it.
2 Corinthians 10.5 says andevery proud thing that is raised
up against the knowledge of Godand we take every thought
captive to obey Christ.
We need to live in that formlike, live in that mentality.
(05:14):
And why does this matter, giventhe situation with Charlie Kirk
and this podcast?
It's not so much Charlie Kirkright.
Replace that with anythingright.
We're going to come here, cometo church on a Sunday morning
and we're sitting in the bluechairs listening to Ryan preach
or Tim preach about joy andwe've lost somebody we love.
We're not feeling joyful.
We only came to church becauseeveryone told us we should be
(05:37):
there, or maybe your marriage isstruggling or your kids won't
listen or they're getting intotrouble.
How do we have joy in that?
We take captive our thoughts,right?
So we work at putting God first, recognizing what he's given us
, recognizing the grace we'vereceived and dwelling in that
(06:00):
grace and dwelling in thepresence of the Lord and
addressing the problems as theycome, because what we need to
remember is we are not citizensof earth.
They had a whole sermon on itweek nine, the week before the
one ready to rejoice.
Week nine.
We are not citizens of earth,we are citizens of heaven.
(06:21):
God is our president, god isour Lord.
God is all the things.
God is above us in every way,shape or form.
He is the number one person,right?
It doesn't matter what is goingon around us when we are
focused on God and what God isdoing and how we can work for
God and how we can live for God.
All of those other things stillhurt, but they're manageable
(06:44):
because there's always a light.
There's always somewhere we'regoing, always somewhere we're
striving.
That is good.
Always someone that we can leaninto when it's hard.
Always somebody that we canknow is in our corner fighting
for us.
That's one of the hardestthings when we're going through
this moment.
Right, when we feel these typesof feelings.
(07:05):
Where it's I'm going to church,but I'm going to leave here and
me and my wife are going tobreak the whole way home in the
car you feel alone.
You feel like you're fightingby yourself.
You feel like you arestruggling and there's no one
out looking for you.
God doesn't need to look foryou.
He's found you.
If you have proclaimed Christas Lord and believe in your
(07:26):
heart.
God's found you.
There's no searching at thispoint.
He's with you and he's fightingfor you.
And he may need to correct you.
He may have some things he'sworking out of you and that's
not always fun, but thank God heis right.
Thank God that he is working toimprove us, to sanctify us, to
(07:49):
bring us closer to him and touse us for his glory.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah, because what is it, Ryan said I can't remember
if it was Flip the Ledger or not, which I forget which one it
was in but it's not us takinghold of Christ, it's Christ
taking hold of us.
So, like you're saying, youknow to your point, that you
just said is like when weconfess him and we're actively
seeking him, it's not usgrabbing hold of him, it's him
(08:16):
grabbing hold of us and, youknow, leading us where we need
to be.
But even even with that, youknow, while you were talking
about that, it reminded me too.
I think it was also in Flip theLedger, but I'm only bringing
this one up because it ties intothe Press On one.
But I think it was Ryan thatdid Flip the Ledger.
(08:36):
But he says Paul learns that joyis a choice, not a feeling.
So we have to choose to strivefor joy.
And when you think of it likethat and then you go to the
Presson sermon, he talks aboutPaul placing all of his hope in
one thing and that's having therighteousness of God placed on
him by faith.
That righteousness is imputed.
(09:00):
By God's grace that couldrestore him to a right
relationship with Jesus, byGod's grace that could restore
him to a right relationship withJesus.
And for me it's I have to like,I have to remember that
sometimes, like reading this andI've been reading this, like
over and over the past coupledays is realizing that when I
(09:21):
start to lose that feeling ofjoy, it's because my focus is
off of Christ.
So, and it's not even like I'mdoing it on purpose, like
there's just some and like I wasjust saying All right, we had a
little technical difficultythere.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
My computer decided that there was too much going on
and it wasn't going to recordanything, so we're going to try
this again.
What were you saying, though,when you lose focus on Christ?
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Yeah, before we started this, how I was
mentioning to you that you knowI'd been talking to Erica that
there's, there's so many thingsin the world, whether it's on
social media or the news even,or whatever it may be, that is
trying to draw your attentionaway from Christ, and I feel
like it's so easy to be consumedby those things If you're not
(10:07):
training in that, um, wanting tomeditate on the word or or
having that constant strive forknowing Christ and, like I just
told her the other day, like I'mso close to just getting rid of
everything.
Oh yeah, because it's, it doesit, it tries to, it tries to
drown you.
And I mean, obviously that'sthe enemy at work, right, like
(10:29):
it's, he's trying to drown youin such negativity that it it
takes all of that mentaltraining that you've already
done to follow Christ and tomeditate in the word and and
have all these things, and it'sjust trying to get rid of all of
it.
And then that's when I start tonotice like that joy going away
(10:50):
.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Oh yeah, I had the same situation, so I have loved
politics since sixth grade.
I'm the weird little sixthgrader that was debating a
teacher going into thepresidential election.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
So you're saying that you should have been like a
lawyer or a politician?
Speaker 1 (11:10):
I mean, basically I would yeah, I'd love to pay for
either one of those.
That'd be great.
Instead, I fix stuff.
It's great, but I've alwaysloved politics.
I've always loved politics andI went through a spat there
about five years ago where I waspaying for all the
(11:31):
subscriptions for news.
I was getting everything, I waslooking at both sides, I was
trying to get all thisinformation, I was paying
attention to what was going onand I was ranting and raving
24-7.
And then my beautiful wife thehead on my shoulders, I should
call her was like I'm going tohit you If you don't stop
talking about politics.
No one cares, I don't, it's,it's.
(11:54):
All you're doing is gettingyourself upset and worked up and
feeling all these things andit's kind of miserable to be
around a little bit.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
I definitely feel like politics is the one topic
that can always guaranteed startan argument.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Oh, it's great 100%.
I mean it was hurtingrelationships in my family and I
went from being willing to havethose conversations
level-headed, peaceful, just asharing of ideas, to more of a
combative stance.
Admittedly I did, and it becamean ideas to more of a combative
stance Admittedly I did, and itbecame an issue.
And so I ditched it all,canceled them all.
(12:30):
Don't look at it anymore.
Someone asked me not long agothey're like so what do you
think about this and that?
And I'm just like I've stoppedwatching.
I know things are happening,but I'm not so wrapped into it
that I can get caught up and getall angry because,
realistically, there's nothing Ican do to change it.
(12:50):
I'm not going to go there.
And maybe when I was 18 and Iwas full of hope and I could
change the world, but that's notmy goal anymore.
I have no interest in goinginto politics or doing anything
like that.
I'm 28.
I'm a youth pastor.
I fixed stuff for Chipotle.
My goal is to help othersdiscover more in Christ and, if
(13:13):
that is where and that'll looklike, wherever God takes me.
But I don't need to know allthe dumb things or what
so-and-so may have lied about orall of this stuff to do that,
and so if you're that personright, and maybe you heard
Ryan's sermon or Tim's sermon Idon't know who preached it, one
of them Flip the ledger, whoeverpreached that one.
If you heard that and you'relike where on my ledger, do I
(13:36):
need to address what thing waskeeping me from having a
relationship with God where hecan use me?
Right, you still have arelationship with God where he
can use me.
Right, you still have arelationship with God.
You're still a Bible-believingChristian and all of these
things, and you pray every night.
You do these things, but isthat keeping people from
approaching you and learningabout God?
Is that going to be where youlose influence on somebody?
Speaker 2 (14:00):
And that even goes back to previous episodes of
this, when we talked about areyou living a life worthy of the
gospel?
So, are you living a lifeworthy of the gospel if what
you're saying in your daily walkis keeping people from coming
to you wanting to know moreabout God?
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Yeah, and it doesn't need to be.
You're obsessed with politics?
It could be.
I think when they talk about it, are you just letting the cuss
words fly, right?
You could just say whatever youwant, right?
You're redeemed.
You don't have to cuss, godforgave it already and people
hear that and they're like oof.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah, I just went to a kind of I mean it's on topic
with what you were just saying.
But I just went to a kind of Imean it's on topic with what you
were just saying, but I just Ijust went to a I'm not gonna
throw names out there.
We went to an outing for aplace of business and I felt
like I was on like a sailor ship.
I was looking around, like itwas like probably every third or
(15:00):
fourth word was, you know, aswear word being thrown out, and
I was like all right, this is aplace of business and this is
how everyone's talking, got it.
I'm like okay, I'm going tostay in my little corner over
here.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
You're sitting over there.
Be careful, little ears whatyou hear.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
But no, it is.
It's one of those things whereit's like we have to you're
going to have to help me withthe verse because it's slipping
my tongue right now buteverything that proceeds from
our mouth should be of God,right?
So when, like, we have to becareful too on how we talk and I
know that's again this is kindof getting off topic, but it was
(15:38):
just.
It was funny that you mentionedthat, because I just went
through this, you know, a coupledays ago, and it's one of those
things where it's like even Ihave to watch what I'm saying.
I'm glad that you said that,because I'm going to listen to
this, like I always do, andthat's going to now be stuck in
my head.
Even I had to work on as I, youknow, started my walk because
(16:09):
it's so easy to get wrapped upinto society, norms and what you
grew up in and everything else.
And, you know, having thatmental training and letting the
Spirit work through you and, youknow, slowly start purging
those things from your life.
So when you are speaking,you're speaking how you should
be, when you're professing Godto people.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Yeah, and it's important that, if you're
listening and you're hearingthis, be aware that this is
coming from two dudes who'veboth spent at least five years
working in a factory.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
I mean, I still work there.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Your situation of.
Well, I wish I could just stayout of those jokes or I wish I
could just not say this, butwhere I work, everyone talks
like that yeah, we know we arein there or have been in there,
and it's not always easy.
But no one said being aChristian is easy.
When you're sitting there andyou're trying to figure out
(17:04):
where God is speaking to you ina sermon, this could be it.
It's probably where you're likehmm, monday morning you're
going to work and you hear thatjoke and you start giggling.
And then you remember what Ryansaid or Tim said the day before
, like that's God puttingsomething on your heart and
that's good.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
It is like it's funny now because, like thinking of
where I was, you know, a handfulof years ago, to where I am now
.
And I'll be at work now becauseclass has started.
So I'm at work, I'll take mylaptop and when I have downtime
I'll be sitting there doingschoolwork and I'm just
listening to the other two guystalk back and forth and I'll
hear something.
I'll turn around and be likewhoa, whoa, whoa.
And he's like I'm sorry, dude,but it's like I.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
I feel like I'm playing like the father figure
there now where I'm like, hey,watch your mouth policing them.
So another thing I really like,and I've heard it before and
you've probably heard it, butthe first time I realized this
it blew my mind, so I'm gonnabring it up.
Philippians 4 13 I could do allthings through christ, who
strengthens me, right?
Where do we hear that?
It's on every athlete's stuff.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Yeah, it's like your new typical inspirational motto.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah, if you are a Christian athlete, you probably
have seen that 30 times today orheard someone say that, or
before every game, you talkabout it.
What's so important about thatis verse 12.
And I'm going to read it foryou.
It says I know both how to makeit with little and I know how
(18:36):
to make it with a lot.
In any and all circumstances.
I've learned the secret of beingcontent.
Whether well fed or hungry,whether in abundance or need,
I'm able to do all thingsthrough him, who strengthens me.
This verse is not about winningthe Super Bowl.
This verse is not about winningthe game, getting the starting
(18:57):
position, getting the good stuff.
This verse is about losing, nothaving enough, struggling
through it, enduring, sufferingthose things.
And when I heard that as a teenand it was like an awakening in
(19:22):
me, like oh, I've thoughtPhilippians 4.
Meant I could god's gonna helpme do all this and win all these
games, but I've been losingthem.
I don't know about you guys.
My high school was not knownfor its athletics and so we'd go
out and play, talking aboutphilippines 413 or someone's
(19:44):
saying it, and we can do thisand rah, rah, rah, and then we
lose yeah and I'm like where youat, big guy, like I thought I
could do all things.
The verse says I read it.
I checked that it was thecorrect verse.
I didn't read any other verses,but I checked that one.
Yeah, just that one isolatedverse by itself.
That's what it says.
Yeah, but in reality what isbeing said here is that when you
(20:08):
don't have it, when you don'thave enough, god still got you.
And if we can expand on that tolike every stage of our life,
every situation we are in, godhas still got us.
Whether we are in, god hasstill got us.
Whether we are on the top orstruggling, barely eating, or
(20:29):
whether we got the worstdiagnosis and we've got weeks,
months to live, we still have aGod who is taking care of
eternity for us.
We still have a God that hasanswered all the questions,
solved all the problems, hasbeat death in worst case
(20:52):
scenario.
We continue to spend eternitywith him.
Because we're still spendingeternity with God on earth.
Right, eternity just startedbefore we.
Typically, eternity doesn'tstart once we die.
Eternity starts well before wewere born.
Then we came around and we gotto know God and we've started
spending eternity with God.
At that point.
It's just going to continue on,just look a little different.
(21:20):
And so there's so much hope andjoy in that verse.
If we don't just focus on thepositive, which I think, we cut
the legs out of that verse andwe miss so much of that.
Like if you grew up poor, ifyou grew up struggling in any
way, you'd hear that verse andit made you a little angry.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Why am I not rich yet ?
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Yeah, I could do all things.
I could make a million dollarsthrough Christ, who strengthens
me.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Not necessarily.
You can get through it becauseGod's going to help you go and I
don't know.
I made a note for myself that Iwanted to rant about that for a
bit and I did, because that'salways my big takeaway when I
hear that verse.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
And I mean even to pair with it, because I feel
like it's almost, I mean it'slike equally as important Tim
talks about, and this is onethat I feel like I see this
argued the most.
This topic and Tim touched onit is the idea of perfection.
So and again, like TikTok, hasbeen a curse and a blessing at
(22:26):
the same time.
But there's so many differentpeople preaching the word in
different ways on there and youcome across some that are full
on perfection and it getsdangerous to the point where
they're telling people ifthey're not perfect right now,
they're not saved.
Where they're telling people,if they're not perfect right now
(22:46):
, they're not saved.
And then you have the other end, where it's.
You have the people that aretalking, you know, saved by
faith, through grace, or savedby grace through faith, sorry.
And then you have the otherones that are you know, I don't
know some people refer to themas hyper-grace where it's like
there's nothing else and it'shard to explain and I'm not
(23:07):
going to get into that becausesome people might agree or
disagree.
But you see Paul talking aboutthe fact that it's not about
whether or not you're perfect orreaching the end of
sanctification, it's getting toknow Christ and understanding
what Christ did for you, becausethere's nothing you can do in
your walk that's going to add towhat he did on the cross, amen.
(23:30):
And I feel like when I see a lotof these videos, people are
losing track of the fact thatthat's what we should be focused
on and you see so many of thesearguments going on that it's
leading people away.
But I take joy in seeing peoplecome to realize that it is what
(23:51):
Christ did for us on the cross.
But in knowing that as well,tim mentions that hearing grace
and everything.
Like people see it as I'm atoddler, and it's not that we're
toddlers, we're in training.
So even with his victory for uson the cross, like we are in
training to be leaders in thenext life, like we, this, this
(24:16):
is our time.
Now we're in training and youeven see it in Titus 2, 11
through 12, I think, when itsays the grace of God came to
teach us to deny ungodliness.
So grace wasn't just here aslike a forgiveness or like it's
teaching us.
The Spirit is teaching us everyday to deny these things and
this is the training that we'rein.
So I even take joy in that.
(24:37):
I take joy in knowing that,even though I'm not perfect,
like the Spirit's here teachingme every day, getting me closer
and closer to the image ofChrist, and I take joy in that.
I take joy in the fact that Iknow I'm not perfect, but I take
joy in knowing that I am beingtaught every day and I am in
training.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Oh yeah, now, with that whole grace versus works
argument because that's kind ofwhere we're at there is a call
by Jesus for us to be perfectright, but there's an
understanding that we're nevergoing to be there.
And so there's this, one of myfavorite words of all time.
(25:18):
I think I had a sermon where Isaid it like 64 times a
dichotomy Two opposing viewsthat somehow work together right
.
Or two opposing things thatsomehow work together right, um,
or two opposing things thatsomehow work together.
Jesus is calling us to beperfect, and scripture says over
and over that we can, we are,we have broken our chains, we
are free from sin, we can choosenot to sin.
(25:39):
We could do all of this, butthere's a whole lot of grace for
you, because you're not goingto do it right.
And so what we understand asChristians is that we have this
brokenness in us still, becausewe are perfect, imperfect people
, that we're going to sin, we'regoing to fall short.
Everyone does, everyone isgoing to continue until the day
(25:59):
we die.
However, by leaning into Christ, we could do it a whole lot
less.
And then, because we are savedand because we know Christ, it
changes our desires and ourvalues when we lean it and now
when we walk with Christ.
Right, it may not be theperfect metaphor, a perfect
example.
It kind of makes me think oflike a new hire right, you get
hired in, you start working thejob.
(26:21):
You're going to make mistakes,you're going to do something
wrong, you're not going to putthe right person in the email,
you're not going to likewhatever it may be right.
That's kind of like as a newChristian.
But then the more you walk withChrist, the more that
expectation comes that you'regoing to do it correctly.
But even when you've workedsomewhere for 10 years oops, I
(26:42):
made a mistake, it's going tohappen.
But one of my favorite thingsthe pastor ever said and I think
I was the one who said it wedon't do works to be saved.
We do works because we've beensaved 100%.
Does that take away the needfor works Because there's grace?
(27:04):
No, does works.
Take away the need for grace.
There's grace.
No, does works.
Take away the need for grace?
No, I mean, where was it?
I know it was in here.
It's Philippians 3.4, it startsor 3.
For we are circumcision.
(27:24):
If anyone else thinks he hasgrounds for confidence in the
flesh, I have more.
Verse five Circumcised theeighth day, the nation of Israel
, the tribe of Benjamin, aHebrew born of Hebrews.
Regarding the law, a Pharisee.
Regarding zeal, persecuting thechurch.
Regarding the righteousnessthat is in the law, blameless.
But everything that was a gainto me, I've considered to be a
loss because of Christ.
(27:44):
It doesn't matter what allthings we hit when we compare
everything we can do, all of ourperfection, all of our good
deeds, all of our tithes, all ofour everything, and we hold it
up to Christ it's nothing.
(28:08):
It is laughable.
Now, just because it'slaughable, it doesn't mean stop
doing it.
It's like when more metaphorsfor the day you see someone
who's trying to lose weight forthe first time go to the gym and
they're working out next tosomeone who's been going to the
gym for 20 years.
That person's ripped andrunning 10 miles and running
(28:29):
marathons and doing all kinds ofcrazy stuff.
And then they see the guy who'sstruggling to get through a
mile aka me.
They see him.
Right, the guy who's doing it islike he's doing great stuff,
he's doing awesome, he's perfectquote, unquote when it comes to
that.
But then you got the guy who'sjust barely doing it, barely
(28:50):
getting by, fitting it in whenhe can.
Does that mean what he's doingis not worthy or good, or should
he stop?
No, it means keep on going,because one day we are going to
be sanctified and we're going tobe the guy running 20 miles and
it's going to be awesome.
We're going to be perfect andwe're going to be sanctified and
we're going to be the guyrunning 20 miles and it's going
to be awesome.
We're going to be perfect andwe're going to live in heaven
and we're going to be the rulersbecause we are in training.
(29:10):
We're not there yet, but wehave to start doing it now, and
so there's a it's, it's a, it'sa balance it is.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
But even with saying that it's a balance, I want to
agree with how you phrased itbecause, despite the fact that
it's a balance, those works havenothing to do with your
salvation, because they cannever compare to what Christ did
for you on the cross.
Oh yeah, and when I bring it up, I only bring it up because,
(29:43):
for me, as someone who has livedthe way that I've lived, I see
where I was broken, I see whereI failed and I take joy in
knowing that God doesn't leaveme there.
Oh yeah, he's training me andbringing me out of that darkness
.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Oh, I agree 100%.
To see when you have the chanceto see where God has pulled you
out of.
That is such a good point, likegood moment.
That is such a it's exciting.
It's words aren't working today.
It is encouraging to see thatand there is like a sense of
like.
I love that.
(30:22):
I can see that.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
But to love that.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
I can see what God has done for me.
I have to have made thosemistakes too, and so that's also
like this weird thing situationit's humanity, it's feelings.
Feelings don't always makesense.
I love that.
That's really good.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
And with that being said too I know I mentioned it
to you before we started buteven in comparison to what
happened with me and me gettingpulled out of that darkness and
everything and not saying any ofthese people were in darkness,
but in the midst of all of thisstuff happening in the world
right now, especially over thispast week, and to see these
(31:00):
videos of hundreds and hundredsof people being baptized and
coming to Christ, so good.
As hurtful and as sad as theseevents are that are taking place
, you can see the sovereignty ofGod and you can see his hand
moving.
That's bringing all thesepeople closer to Christ and it
(31:21):
really does like it touches yourheart to see the amount of
people lately that have beencoming forward, and I take joy
in that even too.
I mean that's hundreds andhundreds of you know souls that
have come to christ, so I loveit, and I love to see people
choose joy in this situation.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Um and again, we're not I want to reiterate, we're
not aligning ourselves with anyof his politics or anything like
that.
All we're saying is that, froma Christian standpoint, he was a
brother in Christ, charlie Kirk, and there are people that we
disagree with politically oragree with politically on both
sides of the aisle, no matterwhere you stand, that are
(32:01):
brothers in Christ.
And so that brings us to Tim'spoint.
In Ready to Rejoice, that weneed to pursue unity.
When we are seeking joy, whenwe are trying to be joyful, we
need to pursue unity and we needto love the people that we
disagree with.
We need to love the people thatare hurting us.
I heard a pastor talk aboutthis week and I've been chewing
(32:24):
on it like it is bubble gum.
I heard a pastor talk aboutthis week and I've been chewing
on it like it is bubble gum.
As a Christian, the measuringstick is not whether or not we
love Christ, the measuring stickis whether or not we love Judas
.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Yeah, that's a good one.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
And replace Judas with whoever you want to the
person you dislike the most.
The great commandment love yourGod with all your heart.
Love your neighbor as yourself.
He put those real closetogether.
Yes, loving Jesus is first,it's the most important thing,
no debate.
But if we don't love Judas, ifwe don't love the annoying boss,
(33:05):
if we don't love the person onthe other side of the aisle, if
we don't love the person who isopposite of us in everything we
believe, we've missed the secondmost important thing God has
called us to do, and so pursueunity.
(33:30):
Don't be like I can't think ofthe address.
If at all possible, be at peacewith everybody.
Right, Like we can stand up andwe can throw a fit and we can
be all upset about a millionthings and this week's an
example.
But what are we doing with that?
Are we creating division?
(33:50):
Are we stopping the ability forlost people to be saved Because
we don't work, we don't move,we don't act based on what we're
feeling?
We need to take captive everythought, every thought, feeling,
all of that.
We need to control that and dowhat Christ is calling us to do
(34:13):
in every moment of our life.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
And I think, with all the events across the world
that are going on, it'sremembering how we should be
reacting to them, like you werejust saying, and I feel like the
moment you let your emotionsand anger take over.
It's obviously that.
I mean, that's one of thebiggest causes of division and
you know, I see it everywhereright now and I'm only, you know
(34:39):
, 33, and just in the past 10years, the, the amount of
division has gotten so high andthe fact that even in just
normal conversations, it's likepeople have lost the capability
of having a healthy discussionor a healthy debate and being
able to shake hands and stilllove each other afterwards.
I don't have to agree withevery viewpoint that you have in
(35:04):
politics or every viewpointthat you have in how restaurants
should be built.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
We don't have to agree on everything when it
comes to scripture.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Yeah, I mean obviously the important.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
Major on the majors, minor on the minors.
That's in there.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Yeah, do you agree?
Christ is Lord?
Cool, I love you.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
But the thing is we can work through a lot of the
other stuff.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
But the thing is, I feel people in society have lost
the capability of being able topart ways lovingly at the end
of a debate or conversation.
There's so much hate that'sgoing on right now.
That's one thing that breaks myheart when you watch.
It is just the fact that youcan't just agree to disagree on
(35:44):
some things and still shakehands.
And that's the one thing thatI'm stressing the most with my
kids right now going throughschool is you don't have to
agree.
They don't let someone changeyour mind on something you stand
firm in just because theybelieve it.
But at the end of the day, youdon't hate that person, you
don't retaliate against thatperson.
You still show respect and lovethat person, whether don't, you
(36:05):
know, retaliate against thatperson Like, you still show
respect and love that person,whether you agree or not.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
And one of the sorry finish.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
No, you're it's just because of everything that's
going on in the schools withthis.
You know the shootings thatyou're talking about and
everything.
A lot of that stems from thefact that people can't be kind
anymore.
And I told him I was like thatterrifies me for my kids going
to school.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Oh yes, oh yes, that is I don't it drives.
It's a constant fear.
It really is.
But one of the best things thatwas ever taught was in one of
those moments where I was kindof hyper fixated on a
disagreement.
So Allison grew up in a churchthat has differing views on a
(36:50):
couple things than I grew upbelieving, and I've debated her
father left and right, goingback and forth talking about
these things, and one time I wastalking to the pastor of the
church.
We went and got coffee Supergreat guy, pastor Josh Smith
over at Grove Point.
Love the guy Still texting fromtime to time Like I and got
coffee Super great guy.
Pastor Josh Smith over at GrovePoint Love the guy Still
texting from time to time Like Italked to him.
(37:10):
He married us.
He's a great guy.
We disagree on a couple thingsand we're talking about it and
he says I'm 18.
So if you know me at 18, Ididn't stop talking.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
I wish I knew you at 18.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
No, you don't.
You were at 18?
.
No, you don't.
I didn't stop talking.
I talked a whole lot.
I had my points lined out, Iwas ready to debate 24, seven.
Let's do this, let's, let'sdiscuss it.
And he said Jared, I want tochallenge you, stop talking.
Dell used to say that to me too, my stepdad, but he used to say
it a little different.
He said stop talking, justlisten for a bit.
(37:43):
He said stop talking, justlisten for a bit.
Spend a month, spend a year,just listen to different beliefs
, different ways people readScripture, and we're
specifically talking aboutScripture Verses that you hear
preached on all the time.
He's like just listen to them,just talk about it and lean into
(38:04):
God and talk to you about it.
To teach you something, toreveal something to him.
Just talk about it and leaninto God and talk to you about
it.
To teach you something, toreveal something to you.
He said because we worship thesame God, we have the same Holy
Spirit in us, and if we disagreeon something, cool, that's fine
, but we still need to befocused on the Holy Spirit and
(38:25):
what he's calling us to do atsomething Now, and it was
life-changing that advice.
And so, as Christians.
Like we come to church and wehear Ryan say something.
Maybe like, maybe you'revisiting the church for whatever
right you come to the churchfor the first time and you're
agreeing with Ryan, with a wholebunch of stuff, and you've gone
(38:46):
to church your whole life thenhe says something you're like
I've heard that different.
I don't know if I agree withhim.
That's not a reason to leavethe church.
Yeah, there's going to be somethings that Ryan talks about.
If you've spent time studyingthe bible that you may not fully
agree with or it may not haveworded it the same way if you've
, if you've spent time studyingscripture under anybody you go
(39:10):
hear someone talk.
You're not going to agree withevery single thing they say
fully.
Me, ryan and Tim are all fromdifferent backgrounds.
We major on the major, minor onthe minor.
There are some smaller thingsthat God will answer for us and
we'll look at each other and belike ha, I was right, but why
(39:30):
are we going to allow that tocause division?
Why are we going to allow thatto be a reason that we don't go
to a church?
That's, in every other respect,great.
I've heard stories of churchesbreaking up because they didn't
like the color of the carpetcome on, I mean even outside of
(39:55):
like.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
let's say you're disagreeing on something
theology or interpretation,whatever the case may be.
Sometimes I feel like it's evenon an emotional level.
So let's use the same scenarioRyan's preaching and you're
agreeing, agreeing, agreeing.
And then he says something, andit's not that you disagree on
(40:15):
the way it's interpreted orwhatever, but it's because in
that moment the Holy Spirit'spoked you.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
You're talking about a little bit of conviction here.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
It's something that's resonating with you and instead
of just how you were saying,like the guy told you, just stop
talking.
Sometimes it is the slow to you, just stop talking.
Sometimes it is the slow tospeak quick, to listen, sit
there and resonate on that for aminute, because chances are
that is a conviction and it'ssomething that you need to take
away with you and really thinkabout it and instead of speaking
(40:48):
back instantly with anger oremotion in general, there's
probably a reason you feel thatway and you should probably
think about it for a little bitbefore you say anything.
Oh yeah, because that's an easyway to end up leaving a church
is because you feel offended,like oh, he said this, that's
something that I'm doing and Idon't agree with that.
I think that's fine and it'slike sometimes.
Maybe it's not fine, maybe youdo need to go home and think
(41:10):
about it.
Maybe that's something you needto give up or something that
you need to do differently inyour life and the Spirit's
speaking to you and you justdon't feel comfortable in the
moment.
Well, it's not alwayscomfortable.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Being a Christian isn't always easy.
I mean, you see in Scripturewhere Paul is guiding Christians
and telling them what to do indifferent situations if they
should circumcise Gentiles andthings like that.
There's a lot of things here inScripture where Christians
disagree on a subject and thenthere's a decision made and they
(41:43):
just kind of have to live withit.
And we even have it better Ryanthinking slightly different, or
Tim wording something differentthan how we would, or leaning
more towards one thing than theother.
It's very rarely is that.
(42:07):
Should that be a massivesticking point?
There is so much benefit inhaving the majors all together.
Don't get me wrong.
I'm not saying we have someoneon stage who's preaching
blasphemy absolutely not, yeahwe're talking about the
situations and where there wasalready like recorded debate on
(42:28):
it, right, like if it's, if thisperson's walking up there and
just saying something wild, thatjust way out of left field, all
right, let's address that.
You know what I mean.
But if it is something whereit's like a big one speaking in
tongues, always debate it right.
It's not that important mosttimes.
(42:48):
It's not something that justbecause someone sees something
differently, and so we, asChristians, need to pursue unity
together.
Right, and that needs to befirst and foremost.
We need to have fellowshipbetween Christians.
Scripture talks about it overand over, why it's so important.
(43:10):
And then, as we go out andspread the gospel, we're going
to hear things and hear peopleand see people act in ways that
are antithetical to our beliefs,and we have to choose to love
them.
We have to choose to show themlove and give them grace.
(43:32):
Have to choose to show themlove and give them grace Because
, frankly, if you don't believethat Jesus is Lord, there is no
reason that you should submityourself to the scripture.
Let me say it again, so it'sclear If you don't believe in
Jesus, there's no reason thatthey're going to fall under the
law.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Right and Paul says it right.
I wrote this note.
Paul says guard your joy byclinging to the gospel.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
So I mean that right there, and so our job is we need
to, we need to cling to thegospel and those people who
aren't under the law, who aren'tliving how they should, we need
to share the gospel with them.
But if we go to talk tosomebody who is different than
us and we're just ew, I don'twant to talk to that person.
(44:20):
Did you hear them talk aboutwhat they're talking about, or
did you hear the words they said?
They cussed.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
All right, sure, don't bring your little kids
around it.
Have some separation there,right.
Use wisdom, use discernment.
Don't put your kids insituations where.
Have some separation there,right.
Use wisdom, use discernment.
Don't put your kids insituations where they're going
to learn bad habits or something.
Or don't put yourself insituations where you're going to
fall short.
Right, like, maybe you strugglein an area, maybe that's not
your ministry point.
Right, if you are strugglingwith alcoholism, don't go preach
(44:50):
the gospel at a bar.
Yeah, but there's still peoplethat need to hear the gospel,
that are living different thanyou, and those people are going
to live different than you, andour only hope, their only hope,
is to hear the gospel.
If they don't, because they'reweird or they're different, or
(45:11):
they have different proclivities, or they say different things,
or I mean you can just the listgoes on If they don't hear the
gospel, they have no hope.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
When I feel like there's so many, there's so many
introductory ways that you canget into those conversations in
those situations without fallingprey to the situation around
you, right?
So, for instance, the outingthat I went to a bunch of foul
language, right, but being ableto pick out the people who
(45:46):
aren't.
And then it draws thatcuriosity right, like people are
going to see a difference incharacter or a difference in you
know how you're, um, how you'recoming across in a crowd of
people who are acting that way.
And there there was probablythree or four conversations that
I had that.
Who knows why it was prompted.
(46:06):
It could be from the fact thatI was acting differently than
other people, it could be youknow countless things.
But in those situations theopportunity arises where we can
confess our faith and try to atleast plant a seed that can draw
people in.
You know, it was something assimple as he asked you know, do
you have any schooling?
(46:27):
And I told him I'm going toschool right now.
And then the conversation comesup like what are you going to
school for?
And I tell him, and then thatsparks another interest of what
makes you going to school for.
And then I tell them, and thenthat sparks another interest of
well, what makes you want to gofor that?
So it's like in those moments,despite what's going on around
you, like how you approachpeople, how you talk to them and
spark conversations, the deeperyou go, the more you can start
drawing people in and it's.
(46:48):
It's all about the self-controltoo.
You know, anyone can go inthere and just start spewing out
the same words that they are,but it's it's being able to hone
in on that self-control andlisten to the spirit and refrain
from that kind of stuff it'simportant.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
I mean we all want to .
Everybody wants to get alongwith people and have a good time
and not feel like the outcastagain.
That's worldly.
We need to.
We need to be willing to be alittle bit of the outcast.
But when we're talking aboutthis subject and um reaching
people who are lost and pursuingunity with them, um, and when I
(47:29):
it's important that we clarifypursuing unity doesn't mean um
affirm what they're doing.
We're not saying, oh yeah,that's great, go ahead and do
that, that's awesome.
But you know what?
I hear a lot and we hear it somuch, and it's the biggest lie
that Satan tells people.
But I think there also has tobe truth in it.
(47:50):
Right is that Christians arejust going to be mean towards
them because they disagree?
Are all Christians always nice?
Has to be truth in it.
Right Is that Christians arejust going to be mean towards
them because they disagree?
Are all Christians always nice?
No, we're broken.
We're people.
We fall short and we need tofix that period.
There's no.
Show love, pursue unity if atall possible, be at peace with
everybody.
(48:11):
But what I think the world needsto see more of is christians
who are loving and kind and likethey're friends with yeah, just
the normal people they comeinto contact with, like, have
you ever had that situationwhere your buddies with somebody
, or you are getting along withthem and then all, for whatever
(48:35):
reason, they find out you're achristian and they're like taken
aback?
Yeah, that's one of my favoritethings in the world.
Not because I've like hid thatI was a christian.
They just made some assumptionson about me because they're
like, oh, this guy's just anormal guy.
He's not yelling at me ortelling me I should do something
different Because, again, like,share the gospel with them.
But if someone doesn't knowChrist, let's not just sit here
(48:59):
and hound on them about how theyneed to stop doing what they're
doing.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
Right.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
Let them learn.
Let Christ do that part.
He'll convict them.
He'll do all that, but theyneed to come to know Christ.
We need to share the gospelwith them.
And so, in my position, I see Ihave 25 restaurants I take care
of.
And so, in my position, I have25 restaurants I take care of.
Each restaurant has like 30employees.
I see people all the time thathave a million different walks
of life and I've had that wherethey're like you're a pastor,
(49:25):
I'm like, yeah, they're like Ididn't know that Like you seem
normal.
A lot of us are, believe it ornot, christians, we're just
people.
We're just people.
Yep, believe it or notChristians, we're just people.
Yeah, we're just people.
Yeah, and that opens it up toit, makes them see that, look,
just because someone's aChristian doesn't mean they're
just going to yell at us or bashus or be mean to us or not talk
(49:46):
to us because we're different.
There's a big part of lonelinessin that right.
Why do these groups of peoplethat aren't Christian, that are
living antithetical to what Godhas called people to live by?
That's why they group togetherand stay in their little huddle,
because they're only going toget the affirmation and the yeas
and the.
You're doing great, keep doing.
(50:06):
You live your life your way.
But when they find somebody whois just like I'm like, it is
what it is, like I don't know,like do you want me to tell you
everything you're doing wrong?
I could, but is it going to bebeneficial?
But when they then then when he, someone who is a Christian
(50:27):
kind of, invades their, theirhuddle and they're friends with
them, and then they find out andthey're like wait a minute.
you've bamboozled me.
You're not what the world toldme you are.
It opens up the opportunity forthem to see Christians in a
different light, and that's thepoint I was getting at.
Speaker 2 (50:47):
That was a long walk for a short drink of water.
No, I get it because it's likeyou know, we've had this
conversation before.
But the thing is is that andyou touched on it but some of
the most dangerous lies from ourenemy is embedded in some form
of truth.
And you saying that, like youknow, we've had the conversation
of you know the comments thatyou know there's no love like
(51:07):
Christian hate or something.
I don't remember how it goesexactly, but you hear this stuff
all the time and that's whatleads people away from the
church and it's the enemy's liethat's embedded in that partial
truth, because there areChristians that act that way,
but that doesn't mean we all actthat way and that doesn't mean
that all Christians shouldn'tstrive to be better than that.
You know that idea ofChristians.
(51:28):
We shouldn't be reflecting thatkind of light, and I don't
claim to be one of them.
I don't want to be a part ofthe problem that's pushing
people away from the church.
So I get exactly where you'regoing with it, because there are
some very dangerous lies thatare embedded in partial truth.
Speaker 1 (51:48):
Oh yeah and so, ooh, we've gone over a wee bit.
You got a long one today.
You're welcome, guys.
You got to hear our beautifulvoices for an extra 5, 10
minutes, and so we're going towrap up now.
But all of this to say joy isso important and we didn't even
touch on contentment.
(52:09):
Oh, my goodness, we're going togo a little longer, guys.
You ready for this?
Speaker 2 (52:12):
Let's buckle in this whole, the whole sermon series
has been long, dude.
Speaker 1 (52:15):
We could talk about this for hours.
All of this leads into.
God has given us or stems from.
God has given us so much, andour job isn't to worry about
what's going on in the world.
Our job is to share the gospeland create disciples.
Help others discover more inChrist.
That's our church's mission isto help others discover purpose.
(52:38):
Ryan's going to kill me.
It's our purpose and he messedup too.
So he did.
He did.
Our purpose is to help othersdiscover more in Christ.
The Great Commission is that weare to make disciples of all
nations I'm paraphrasing,obviously, of all nations.
I'm paraphrasing obviously.
And so that's all we should befocused on is to fulfilling that
(52:59):
commission, and when we'redoing that, we're focused on God
.
The joy will come.
We need to focus on that Prayconstantly, walk in the Spirit,
practice spiritual disciplines,do all of those things and,
whatever happens, we're going tohave joy through it.
Speaker 2 (53:15):
And my last comment to tag onto that is just
summarizing all of this is guardyour joy, clinging to the
gospel and getting to knowChrist, amen.
Speaker 1 (53:24):
All right, guys, you have a great month, week, year,
all of it.
Have a great time.
We love you.
Talk to you next time.
Bye, Thank you.
Welcome and thanks for joining us on the Blue Chair
Podcast, brought to you by aFresh Wind Church.
Each month we discuss thelatest sermons from the
perspective of the Blue Chairs.
Hello and welcome to the BlueChair Podcast.
I am Pastor Jared and with me,as always, we've got Charles
Magar Say what's up.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
How is it going, everybody?
Speaker 1 (00:37):
It has been a week, let me tell you we are recording
this September Friday,september 12th.
We are going to cover JoyfulPart 2, the second half of the
Joyful series.
It's our summer series goingthrough Philippians on September
(00:58):
12th, so it's the perfectsermon to cover in in this
moment.
Honestly, we are um the world'sin turmoil and it's all right
in front of our face.
I mean, we've got Nepal.
There's a lot of stuffhappening there, um, there's
protests and other things goingon in um France and other parts
(01:22):
of Europe.
We've got September 11th.
That was yesterday, 24 yearssince September 11th.
Charlie Kirk shot and murderedwhile speaking at a college in
Utah.
A couple school shootings thisweek, one literally CNN's
flipping back and forth betweenCharlie Kirk and a school
(01:45):
shooting.
And we're going to talk aboutjoy today.
And if you listened to ourpodcast last month talking about
the first part of joyful andwhat joy is and what it means to
be joyful, the biggest partabout joy is that it is present
regardless of the circumstances.
(02:06):
And so, setting aside CharlieKirk's politics, right, that's
the biggest thing in the newsright now.
Everyone's talking about it,everyone's feeling it.
The man loved God and professedGod everywhere, every time he
was on stage that I've seen.
He talked about God.
You may not agree with himpolitically, you could be on the
(02:29):
completely opposite side of thespectrum, but the man was still
a brother in Christ, and soit's rough.
It's rough.
The man had two kids, a wife.
How do we find joy in thosemoments?
How do we exist?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
and be happy.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Like, have that joyful feeling.
It's hard, it is sometimes, butwhat do we do in those moments?
I think, jumping right intoweek 10, tim preached it ready
to rejoice.
It says rejoice always, commandto rejoice in the Lord, not
circumstances.
Joy anchored in Jesus' presencepromises and work, and it's
(03:15):
visible through his graciousness.
And so find where in our liveswe have graciousness and find
where we've received God'sgraciousness.
It is a weird thing, I don'tknow.
I'm rambling a little bit.
What are you thinking?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
No, I mean even another note in one of Tim's
sermons.
I mean it goes kind of with whatyou were saying, but it stems
off of his notes on Romans 12.
But he had a comment that joy issustained by a disciplined mind
, that Paul urges us to fill ourthoughts with what is true,
honorable and praiseworthy,rather than letting our minds be
(03:57):
consumed by negativity orfalsehood.
And I know it's hard, like whenall these things are going on,
like obviously none of these arepositive things right, like
we're surrounded by thesenegative things happening in our
lives.
But something that you knowI've been trying to train myself
on and allow the spirit to helpme work it out, is like not
letting these negative thoughtsthat are presented to us on a
(04:19):
daily basis, you know, takecontrol of my mind, because for
a long time that's that's whereI used to be.
I used to, you know, takecontrol of my mind, because for
a long time that's where I usedto be.
I used to, you know, dwell inthat negativity instead of, you
know, taking control of it andcasting that out and realizing
that, despite what negativethings are in the world, you
know I have to trust in God,that you know he's doing what
needs to be done.
(04:40):
We have to know that God'ssovereign and he's in control of
everything.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Amen.
I mean, I'm looking up theverse now so I have the actual
address when I mention it.
2 Corinthians 10.5 says andevery proud thing that is raised
up against the knowledge of Godand we take every thought
captive to obey Christ.
We need to live in that formlike, live in that mentality.
(05:14):
And why does this matter, giventhe situation with Charlie Kirk
and this podcast?
It's not so much Charlie Kirkright.
Replace that with anythingright.
We're going to come here, cometo church on a Sunday morning
and we're sitting in the bluechairs listening to Ryan preach
or Tim preach about joy andwe've lost somebody we love.
We're not feeling joyful.
We only came to church becauseeveryone told us we should be
(05:37):
there, or maybe your marriage isstruggling or your kids won't
listen or they're getting intotrouble.
How do we have joy in that?
We take captive our thoughts,right?
So we work at putting God first, recognizing what he's given us
, recognizing the grace we'vereceived and dwelling in that
(06:00):
grace and dwelling in thepresence of the Lord and
addressing the problems as theycome, because what we need to
remember is we are not citizensof earth.
They had a whole sermon on itweek nine, the week before the
one ready to rejoice.
Week nine.
We are not citizens of earth,we are citizens of heaven.
(06:21):
God is our president, god isour Lord.
God is all the things.
God is above us in every way,shape or form.
He is the number one person,right?
It doesn't matter what is goingon around us when we are
focused on God and what God isdoing and how we can work for
God and how we can live for God.
All of those other things stillhurt, but they're manageable
(06:44):
because there's always a light.
There's always somewhere we'regoing, always somewhere we're
striving.
That is good.
Always someone that we can leaninto when it's hard.
Always somebody that we canknow is in our corner fighting
for us.
That's one of the hardestthings when we're going through
this moment.
Right, when we feel these typesof feelings.
(07:05):
Where it's I'm going to church,but I'm going to leave here and
me and my wife are going tobreak the whole way home in the
car you feel alone.
You feel like you're fightingby yourself.
You feel like you arestruggling and there's no one
out looking for you.
God doesn't need to look foryou.
He's found you.
If you have proclaimed Christas Lord and believe in your
(07:26):
heart.
God's found you.
There's no searching at thispoint.
He's with you and he's fightingfor you.
And he may need to correct you.
He may have some things he'sworking out of you and that's
not always fun, but thank God heis right.
Thank God that he is working toimprove us, to sanctify us, to
(07:49):
bring us closer to him and touse us for his glory.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah, because what is it, Ryan said I can't remember
if it was Flip the Ledger or not, which I forget which one it
was in but it's not us takinghold of Christ, it's Christ
taking hold of us.
So, like you're saying, youknow to your point, that you
just said is like when weconfess him and we're actively
seeking him, it's not usgrabbing hold of him, it's him
(08:16):
grabbing hold of us and, youknow, leading us where we need
to be.
But even even with that, youknow, while you were talking
about that, it reminded me too.
I think it was also in Flip theLedger, but I'm only bringing
this one up because it ties intothe Press On one.
But I think it was Ryan thatdid Flip the Ledger.
(08:36):
But he says Paul learns that joyis a choice, not a feeling.
So we have to choose to strivefor joy.
And when you think of it likethat and then you go to the
Presson sermon, he talks aboutPaul placing all of his hope in
one thing and that's having therighteousness of God placed on
him by faith.
That righteousness is imputed.
(09:00):
By God's grace that couldrestore him to a right
relationship with Jesus, byGod's grace that could restore
him to a right relationship withJesus.
And for me it's I have to like,I have to remember that
sometimes, like reading this andI've been reading this, like
over and over the past coupledays is realizing that when I
(09:21):
start to lose that feeling ofjoy, it's because my focus is
off of Christ.
So, and it's not even like I'mdoing it on purpose, like
there's just some and like I wasjust saying All right, we had a
little technical difficultythere.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
My computer decided that there was too much going on
and it wasn't going to recordanything, so we're going to try
this again.
What were you saying, though,when you lose focus on Christ?
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Yeah, before we started this, how I was
mentioning to you that you knowI'd been talking to Erica that
there's, there's so many thingsin the world, whether it's on
social media or the news even,or whatever it may be, that is
trying to draw your attentionaway from Christ, and I feel
like it's so easy to be consumedby those things If you're not
(10:07):
training in that, um, wanting tomeditate on the word or or
having that constant strive forknowing Christ and, like I just
told her the other day, like I'mso close to just getting rid of
everything.
Oh yeah, because it's, it doesit, it tries to, it tries to
drown you.
And I mean, obviously that'sthe enemy at work, right, like
(10:29):
it's, he's trying to drown youin such negativity that it it
takes all of that mentaltraining that you've already
done to follow Christ and tomeditate in the word and and
have all these things, and it'sjust trying to get rid of all of
it.
And then that's when I start tonotice like that joy going away
(10:50):
.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Oh yeah, I had the same situation, so I have loved
politics since sixth grade.
I'm the weird little sixthgrader that was debating a
teacher going into thepresidential election.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
So you're saying that you should have been like a
lawyer or a politician?
Speaker 1 (11:10):
I mean, basically I would yeah, I'd love to pay for
either one of those.
That'd be great.
Instead, I fix stuff.
It's great, but I've alwaysloved politics.
I've always loved politics andI went through a spat there
about five years ago where I waspaying for all the
(11:31):
subscriptions for news.
I was getting everything, I waslooking at both sides, I was
trying to get all thisinformation, I was paying
attention to what was going onand I was ranting and raving
24-7.
And then my beautiful wife thehead on my shoulders, I should
call her was like I'm going tohit you If you don't stop
talking about politics.
No one cares, I don't, it's,it's.
(11:54):
All you're doing is gettingyourself upset and worked up and
feeling all these things andit's kind of miserable to be
around a little bit.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
I definitely feel like politics is the one topic
that can always guaranteed startan argument.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Oh, it's great 100%.
I mean it was hurtingrelationships in my family and I
went from being willing to havethose conversations
level-headed, peaceful, just asharing of ideas, to more of a
combative stance.
Admittedly I did, and it becamean ideas to more of a combative
stance Admittedly I did, and itbecame an issue.
And so I ditched it all,canceled them all.
(12:30):
Don't look at it anymore.
Someone asked me not long agothey're like so what do you
think about this and that?
And I'm just like I've stoppedwatching.
I know things are happening,but I'm not so wrapped into it
that I can get caught up and getall angry because,
realistically, there's nothing Ican do to change it.
(12:50):
I'm not going to go there.
And maybe when I was 18 and Iwas full of hope and I could
change the world, but that's notmy goal anymore.
I have no interest in goinginto politics or doing anything
like that.
I'm 28.
I'm a youth pastor.
I fixed stuff for Chipotle.
My goal is to help othersdiscover more in Christ and, if
(13:13):
that is where and that'll looklike, wherever God takes me.
But I don't need to know allthe dumb things or what
so-and-so may have lied about orall of this stuff to do that,
and so if you're that personright, and maybe you heard
Ryan's sermon or Tim's sermon Idon't know who preached it, one
of them Flip the ledger, whoeverpreached that one.
If you heard that and you'relike where on my ledger, do I
(13:36):
need to address what thing waskeeping me from having a
relationship with God where hecan use me?
Right, you still have arelationship with God where he
can use me.
Right, you still have arelationship with God.
You're still a Bible-believingChristian and all of these
things, and you pray every night.
You do these things, but isthat keeping people from
approaching you and learningabout God?
Is that going to be where youlose influence on somebody?
Speaker 2 (14:00):
And that even goes back to previous episodes of
this, when we talked about areyou living a life worthy of the
gospel?
So, are you living a lifeworthy of the gospel if what
you're saying in your daily walkis keeping people from coming
to you wanting to know moreabout God?
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Yeah, and it doesn't need to be.
You're obsessed with politics?
It could be.
I think when they talk about it, are you just letting the cuss
words fly, right?
You could just say whatever youwant, right?
You're redeemed.
You don't have to cuss, godforgave it already and people
hear that and they're like oof.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah, I just went to a kind of I mean it's on topic
with what you were just saying.
But I just went to a kind of Imean it's on topic with what you
were just saying, but I just Ijust went to a I'm not gonna
throw names out there.
We went to an outing for aplace of business and I felt
like I was on like a sailor ship.
I was looking around, like itwas like probably every third or
(15:00):
fourth word was, you know, aswear word being thrown out, and
I was like all right, this is aplace of business and this is
how everyone's talking, got it.
I'm like okay, I'm going tostay in my little corner over
here.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
You're sitting over there.
Be careful, little ears whatyou hear.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
But no, it is.
It's one of those things whereit's like we have to you're
going to have to help me withthe verse because it's slipping
my tongue right now buteverything that proceeds from
our mouth should be of God,right?
So when, like, we have to becareful too on how we talk and I
know that's again this is kindof getting off topic, but it was
(15:38):
just.
It was funny that you mentionedthat, because I just went
through this, you know, a coupledays ago, and it's one of those
things where it's like even Ihave to watch what I'm saying.
I'm glad that you said that,because I'm going to listen to
this, like I always do, andthat's going to now be stuck in
my head.
Even I had to work on as I, youknow, started my walk because
(16:09):
it's so easy to get wrapped upinto society, norms and what you
grew up in and everything else.
And, you know, having thatmental training and letting the
Spirit work through you and, youknow, slowly start purging
those things from your life.
So when you are speaking,you're speaking how you should
be, when you're professing Godto people.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Yeah, and it's important that, if you're
listening and you're hearingthis, be aware that this is
coming from two dudes who'veboth spent at least five years
working in a factory.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
I mean, I still work there.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Your situation of.
Well, I wish I could just stayout of those jokes or I wish I
could just not say this, butwhere I work, everyone talks
like that yeah, we know we arein there or have been in there,
and it's not always easy.
But no one said being aChristian is easy.
When you're sitting there andyou're trying to figure out
(17:04):
where God is speaking to you ina sermon, this could be it.
It's probably where you're likehmm, monday morning you're
going to work and you hear thatjoke and you start giggling.
And then you remember what Ryansaid or Tim said the day before
, like that's God puttingsomething on your heart and
that's good.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
It is like it's funny now because, like thinking of
where I was, you know, a handfulof years ago, to where I am now
.
And I'll be at work now becauseclass has started.
So I'm at work, I'll take mylaptop and when I have downtime
I'll be sitting there doingschoolwork and I'm just
listening to the other two guystalk back and forth and I'll
hear something.
I'll turn around and be likewhoa, whoa, whoa.
And he's like I'm sorry, dude,but it's like I.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
I feel like I'm playing like the father figure
there now where I'm like, hey,watch your mouth policing them.
So another thing I really like,and I've heard it before and
you've probably heard it, butthe first time I realized this
it blew my mind, so I'm gonnabring it up.
Philippians 4 13 I could do allthings through christ, who
strengthens me, right?
Where do we hear that?
It's on every athlete's stuff.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Yeah, it's like your new typical inspirational motto.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah, if you are a Christian athlete, you probably
have seen that 30 times today orheard someone say that, or
before every game, you talkabout it.
What's so important about thatis verse 12.
And I'm going to read it foryou.
It says I know both how to makeit with little and I know how
(18:36):
to make it with a lot.
In any and all circumstances.
I've learned the secret of beingcontent.
Whether well fed or hungry,whether in abundance or need,
I'm able to do all thingsthrough him, who strengthens me.
This verse is not about winningthe Super Bowl.
This verse is not about winningthe game, getting the starting
(18:57):
position, getting the good stuff.
This verse is about losing, nothaving enough, struggling
through it, enduring, sufferingthose things.
And when I heard that as a teenand it was like an awakening in
(19:22):
me, like oh, I've thoughtPhilippians 4.
Meant I could god's gonna helpme do all this and win all these
games, but I've been losingthem.
I don't know about you guys.
My high school was not knownfor its athletics and so we'd go
out and play, talking aboutphilippines 413 or someone's
(19:44):
saying it, and we can do thisand rah, rah, rah, and then we
lose yeah and I'm like where youat, big guy, like I thought I
could do all things.
The verse says I read it.
I checked that it was thecorrect verse.
I didn't read any other verses,but I checked that one.
Yeah, just that one isolatedverse by itself.
That's what it says.
Yeah, but in reality what isbeing said here is that when you
(20:08):
don't have it, when you don'thave enough, god still got you.
And if we can expand on that tolike every stage of our life,
every situation we are in, godhas still got us.
Whether we are in, god hasstill got us.
Whether we are on the top orstruggling, barely eating, or
(20:29):
whether we got the worstdiagnosis and we've got weeks,
months to live, we still have aGod who is taking care of
eternity for us.
We still have a God that hasanswered all the questions,
solved all the problems, hasbeat death in worst case
(20:52):
scenario.
We continue to spend eternitywith him.
Because we're still spendingeternity with God on earth.
Right, eternity just startedbefore we.
Typically, eternity doesn'tstart once we die.
Eternity starts well before wewere born.
Then we came around and we gotto know God and we've started
spending eternity with God.
At that point.
It's just going to continue on,just look a little different.
(21:20):
And so there's so much hope andjoy in that verse.
If we don't just focus on thepositive, which I think, we cut
the legs out of that verse andwe miss so much of that.
Like if you grew up poor, ifyou grew up struggling in any
way, you'd hear that verse andit made you a little angry.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Why am I not rich yet ?
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Yeah, I could do all things.
I could make a million dollarsthrough Christ, who strengthens
me.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Not necessarily.
You can get through it becauseGod's going to help you go and I
don't know.
I made a note for myself that Iwanted to rant about that for a
bit and I did, because that'salways my big takeaway when I
hear that verse.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
And I mean even to pair with it, because I feel
like it's almost, I mean it'slike equally as important Tim
talks about, and this is onethat I feel like I see this
argued the most.
This topic and Tim touched onit is the idea of perfection.
So and again, like TikTok, hasbeen a curse and a blessing at
(22:26):
the same time.
But there's so many differentpeople preaching the word in
different ways on there and youcome across some that are full
on perfection and it getsdangerous to the point where
they're telling people ifthey're not perfect right now,
they're not saved.
Where they're telling people,if they're not perfect right now
(22:46):
, they're not saved.
And then you have the other end, where it's.
You have the people that aretalking, you know, saved by
faith, through grace, or savedby grace through faith, sorry.
And then you have the otherones that are you know, I don't
know some people refer to themas hyper-grace where it's like
there's nothing else and it'shard to explain and I'm not
(23:07):
going to get into that becausesome people might agree or
disagree.
But you see Paul talking aboutthe fact that it's not about
whether or not you're perfect orreaching the end of
sanctification, it's getting toknow Christ and understanding
what Christ did for you, becausethere's nothing you can do in
your walk that's going to add towhat he did on the cross, amen.
(23:30):
And I feel like when I see a lotof these videos, people are
losing track of the fact thatthat's what we should be focused
on and you see so many of thesearguments going on that it's
leading people away.
But I take joy in seeing peoplecome to realize that it is what
(23:51):
Christ did for us on the cross.
But in knowing that as well,tim mentions that hearing grace
and everything.
Like people see it as I'm atoddler, and it's not that we're
toddlers, we're in training.
So even with his victory for uson the cross, like we are in
training to be leaders in thenext life, like we, this, this
(24:16):
is our time.
Now we're in training and youeven see it in Titus 2, 11
through 12, I think, when itsays the grace of God came to
teach us to deny ungodliness.
So grace wasn't just here aslike a forgiveness or like it's
teaching us.
The Spirit is teaching us everyday to deny these things and
this is the training that we'rein.
So I even take joy in that.
(24:37):
I take joy in knowing that,even though I'm not perfect,
like the Spirit's here teachingme every day, getting me closer
and closer to the image ofChrist, and I take joy in that.
I take joy in the fact that Iknow I'm not perfect, but I take
joy in knowing that I am beingtaught every day and I am in
training.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Oh yeah, now, with that whole grace versus works
argument because that's kind ofwhere we're at there is a call
by Jesus for us to be perfectright, but there's an
understanding that we're nevergoing to be there.
And so there's this, one of myfavorite words of all time.
(25:18):
I think I had a sermon where Isaid it like 64 times a
dichotomy Two opposing viewsthat somehow work together right
.
Or two opposing things thatsomehow work together right, um,
or two opposing things thatsomehow work together.
Jesus is calling us to beperfect, and scripture says over
and over that we can, we are,we have broken our chains, we
are free from sin, we can choosenot to sin.
(25:39):
We could do all of this, butthere's a whole lot of grace for
you, because you're not goingto do it right.
And so what we understand asChristians is that we have this
brokenness in us still, becausewe are perfect, imperfect people
, that we're going to sin, we'regoing to fall short.
Everyone does, everyone isgoing to continue until the day
(25:59):
we die.
However, by leaning into Christ, we could do it a whole lot
less.
And then, because we are savedand because we know Christ, it
changes our desires and ourvalues when we lean it and now
when we walk with Christ.
Right, it may not be theperfect metaphor, a perfect
example.
It kind of makes me think oflike a new hire right, you get
hired in, you start working thejob.
(26:21):
You're going to make mistakes,you're going to do something
wrong, you're not going to putthe right person in the email,
you're not going to likewhatever it may be right.
That's kind of like as a newChristian.
But then the more you walk withChrist, the more that
expectation comes that you'regoing to do it correctly.
But even when you've workedsomewhere for 10 years oops, I
(26:42):
made a mistake, it's going tohappen.
But one of my favorite thingsthe pastor ever said and I think
I was the one who said it wedon't do works to be saved.
We do works because we've beensaved 100%.
Does that take away the needfor works Because there's grace?
(27:04):
No, does works.
Take away the need for grace.
There's grace.
No, does works.
Take away the need for grace?
No, I mean, where was it?
I know it was in here.
It's Philippians 3.4, it startsor 3.
For we are circumcision.
(27:24):
If anyone else thinks he hasgrounds for confidence in the
flesh, I have more.
Verse five Circumcised theeighth day, the nation of Israel
, the tribe of Benjamin, aHebrew born of Hebrews.
Regarding the law, a Pharisee.
Regarding zeal, persecuting thechurch.
Regarding the righteousnessthat is in the law, blameless.
But everything that was a gainto me, I've considered to be a
loss because of Christ.
(27:44):
It doesn't matter what allthings we hit when we compare
everything we can do, all of ourperfection, all of our good
deeds, all of our tithes, all ofour everything, and we hold it
up to Christ it's nothing.
(28:08):
It is laughable.
Now, just because it'slaughable, it doesn't mean stop
doing it.
It's like when more metaphorsfor the day you see someone
who's trying to lose weight forthe first time go to the gym and
they're working out next tosomeone who's been going to the
gym for 20 years.
That person's ripped andrunning 10 miles and running
(28:29):
marathons and doing all kinds ofcrazy stuff.
And then they see the guy who'sstruggling to get through a
mile aka me.
They see him.
Right, the guy who's doing it islike he's doing great stuff,
he's doing awesome, he's perfectquote, unquote when it comes to
that.
But then you got the guy who'sjust barely doing it, barely
(28:50):
getting by, fitting it in whenhe can.
Does that mean what he's doingis not worthy or good, or should
he stop?
No, it means keep on going,because one day we are going to
be sanctified and we're going tobe the guy running 20 miles and
it's going to be awesome.
We're going to be perfect andwe're going to be sanctified and
we're going to be the guyrunning 20 miles and it's going
to be awesome.
We're going to be perfect andwe're going to live in heaven
and we're going to be the rulersbecause we are in training.
(29:10):
We're not there yet, but wehave to start doing it now, and
so there's a it's, it's a, it'sa balance it is.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
But even with saying that it's a balance, I want to
agree with how you phrased itbecause, despite the fact that
it's a balance, those works havenothing to do with your
salvation, because they cannever compare to what Christ did
for you on the cross.
Oh yeah, and when I bring it up, I only bring it up because,
(29:43):
for me, as someone who has livedthe way that I've lived, I see
where I was broken, I see whereI failed and I take joy in
knowing that God doesn't leaveme there.
Oh yeah, he's training me andbringing me out of that darkness
.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Oh, I agree 100%.
To see when you have the chanceto see where God has pulled you
out of.
That is such a good point, likegood moment.
That is such a it's exciting.
It's words aren't working today.
It is encouraging to see thatand there is like a sense of
like.
I love that.
(30:22):
I can see that.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
But to love that.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
I can see what God has done for me.
I have to have made thosemistakes too, and so that's also
like this weird thing situationit's humanity, it's feelings.
Feelings don't always makesense.
I love that.
That's really good.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
And with that being said too I know I mentioned it
to you before we started buteven in comparison to what
happened with me and me gettingpulled out of that darkness and
everything and not saying any ofthese people were in darkness,
but in the midst of all of thisstuff happening in the world
right now, especially over thispast week, and to see these
(31:00):
videos of hundreds and hundredsof people being baptized and
coming to Christ, so good.
As hurtful and as sad as theseevents are that are taking place
, you can see the sovereignty ofGod and you can see his hand
moving.
That's bringing all thesepeople closer to Christ and it
(31:21):
really does like it touches yourheart to see the amount of
people lately that have beencoming forward, and I take joy
in that even too.
I mean that's hundreds andhundreds of you know souls that
have come to christ, so I loveit, and I love to see people
choose joy in this situation.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Um and again, we're not I want to reiterate, we're
not aligning ourselves with anyof his politics or anything like
that.
All we're saying is that, froma Christian standpoint, he was a
brother in Christ, charlie Kirk, and there are people that we
disagree with politically oragree with politically on both
sides of the aisle, no matterwhere you stand, that are
(32:01):
brothers in Christ.
And so that brings us to Tim'spoint.
In Ready to Rejoice, that weneed to pursue unity.
When we are seeking joy, whenwe are trying to be joyful, we
need to pursue unity and we needto love the people that we
disagree with.
We need to love the people thatare hurting us.
I heard a pastor talk aboutthis week and I've been chewing
(32:24):
on it like it is bubble gum.
I heard a pastor talk aboutthis week and I've been chewing
on it like it is bubble gum.
As a Christian, the measuringstick is not whether or not we
love Christ, the measuring stickis whether or not we love Judas
.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Yeah, that's a good one.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
And replace Judas with whoever you want to the
person you dislike the most.
The great commandment love yourGod with all your heart.
Love your neighbor as yourself.
He put those real closetogether.
Yes, loving Jesus is first,it's the most important thing,
no debate.
But if we don't love Judas, ifwe don't love the annoying boss,
(33:05):
if we don't love the person onthe other side of the aisle, if
we don't love the person who isopposite of us in everything we
believe, we've missed the secondmost important thing God has
called us to do, and so pursueunity.
(33:30):
Don't be like I can't think ofthe address.
If at all possible, be at peacewith everybody.
Right, Like we can stand up andwe can throw a fit and we can
be all upset about a millionthings and this week's an
example.
But what are we doing with that?
Are we creating division?
(33:50):
Are we stopping the ability forlost people to be saved Because
we don't work, we don't move,we don't act based on what we're
feeling?
We need to take captive everythought, every thought, feeling,
all of that.
We need to control that and dowhat Christ is calling us to do
(34:13):
in every moment of our life.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
And I think, with all the events across the world
that are going on, it'sremembering how we should be
reacting to them, like you werejust saying, and I feel like the
moment you let your emotionsand anger take over.
It's obviously that.
I mean, that's one of thebiggest causes of division and
you know, I see it everywhereright now and I'm only, you know
(34:39):
, 33, and just in the past 10years, the, the amount of
division has gotten so high andthe fact that even in just
normal conversations, it's likepeople have lost the capability
of having a healthy discussionor a healthy debate and being
able to shake hands and stilllove each other afterwards.
I don't have to agree withevery viewpoint that you have in
(35:04):
politics or every viewpointthat you have in how restaurants
should be built.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
We don't have to agree on everything when it
comes to scripture.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Yeah, I mean obviously the important.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
Major on the majors, minor on the minors.
That's in there.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Yeah, do you agree?
Christ is Lord?
Cool, I love you.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
But the thing is we can work through a lot of the
other stuff.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
But the thing is, I feel people in society have lost
the capability of being able topart ways lovingly at the end
of a debate or conversation.
There's so much hate that'sgoing on right now.
That's one thing that breaks myheart when you watch.
It is just the fact that youcan't just agree to disagree on
(35:44):
some things and still shakehands.
And that's the one thing thatI'm stressing the most with my
kids right now going throughschool is you don't have to
agree.
They don't let someone changeyour mind on something you stand
firm in just because theybelieve it.
But at the end of the day, youdon't hate that person, you
don't retaliate against thatperson.
You still show respect and lovethat person, whether don't, you
(36:05):
know, retaliate against thatperson Like, you still show
respect and love that person,whether you agree or not.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
And one of the sorry finish.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
No, you're it's just because of everything that's
going on in the schools withthis.
You know the shootings thatyou're talking about and
everything.
A lot of that stems from thefact that people can't be kind
anymore.
And I told him I was like thatterrifies me for my kids going
to school.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Oh yes, oh yes, that is I don't it drives.
It's a constant fear.
It really is.
But one of the best things thatwas ever taught was in one of
those moments where I was kindof hyper fixated on a
disagreement.
So Allison grew up in a churchthat has differing views on a
(36:50):
couple things than I grew upbelieving, and I've debated her
father left and right, goingback and forth talking about
these things, and one time I wastalking to the pastor of the
church.
We went and got coffee Supergreat guy, pastor Josh Smith
over at Grove Point.
Love the guy Still texting fromtime to time Like I and got
coffee Super great guy.
Pastor Josh Smith over at GrovePoint Love the guy Still
texting from time to time Like Italked to him.
(37:10):
He married us.
He's a great guy.
We disagree on a couple thingsand we're talking about it and
he says I'm 18.
So if you know me at 18, Ididn't stop talking.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
I wish I knew you at 18.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
No, you don't.
You were at 18?
.
No, you don't.
I didn't stop talking.
I talked a whole lot.
I had my points lined out, Iwas ready to debate 24, seven.
Let's do this, let's, let'sdiscuss it.
And he said Jared, I want tochallenge you, stop talking.
Dell used to say that to me too, my stepdad, but he used to say
it a little different.
He said stop talking, justlisten for a bit.
(37:43):
He said stop talking, justlisten for a bit.
Spend a month, spend a year,just listen to different beliefs
, different ways people readScripture, and we're
specifically talking aboutScripture Verses that you hear
preached on all the time.
He's like just listen to them,just talk about it and lean into
(38:04):
God and talk to you about it.
To teach you something, toreveal something to him.
Just talk about it and leaninto God and talk to you about
it.
To teach you something, toreveal something to you.
He said because we worship thesame God, we have the same Holy
Spirit in us, and if we disagreeon something, cool, that's fine
, but we still need to befocused on the Holy Spirit and
(38:25):
what he's calling us to do atsomething Now, and it was
life-changing that advice.
And so, as Christians.
Like we come to church and wehear Ryan say something.
Maybe like, maybe you'revisiting the church for whatever
right you come to the churchfor the first time and you're
agreeing with Ryan, with a wholebunch of stuff, and you've gone
(38:46):
to church your whole life thenhe says something you're like
I've heard that different.
I don't know if I agree withhim.
That's not a reason to leavethe church.
Yeah, there's going to be somethings that Ryan talks about.
If you've spent time studyingthe bible that you may not fully
agree with or it may not haveworded it the same way if you've
, if you've spent time studyingscripture under anybody you go
(39:10):
hear someone talk.
You're not going to agree withevery single thing they say
fully.
Me, ryan and Tim are all fromdifferent backgrounds.
We major on the major, minor onthe minor.
There are some smaller thingsthat God will answer for us and
we'll look at each other and belike ha, I was right, but why
(39:30):
are we going to allow that tocause division?
Why are we going to allow thatto be a reason that we don't go
to a church?
That's, in every other respect,great.
I've heard stories of churchesbreaking up because they didn't
like the color of the carpetcome on, I mean even outside of
(39:55):
like.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
let's say you're disagreeing on something
theology or interpretation,whatever the case may be.
Sometimes I feel like it's evenon an emotional level.
So let's use the same scenarioRyan's preaching and you're
agreeing, agreeing, agreeing.
And then he says something, andit's not that you disagree on
(40:15):
the way it's interpreted orwhatever, but it's because in
that moment the Holy Spirit'spoked you.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
You're talking about a little bit of conviction here.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
It's something that's resonating with you and instead
of just how you were saying,like the guy told you, just stop
talking.
Sometimes it is the slow to you, just stop talking.
Sometimes it is the slow tospeak quick, to listen, sit
there and resonate on that for aminute, because chances are
that is a conviction and it'ssomething that you need to take
away with you and really thinkabout it and instead of speaking
(40:48):
back instantly with anger oremotion in general, there's
probably a reason you feel thatway and you should probably
think about it for a little bitbefore you say anything.
Oh yeah, because that's an easyway to end up leaving a church
is because you feel offended,like oh, he said this, that's
something that I'm doing and Idon't agree with that.
I think that's fine and it'slike sometimes.
Maybe it's not fine, maybe youdo need to go home and think
(41:10):
about it.
Maybe that's something you needto give up or something that
you need to do differently inyour life and the Spirit's
speaking to you and you justdon't feel comfortable in the
moment.
Well, it's not alwayscomfortable.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Being a Christian isn't always easy.
I mean, you see in Scripturewhere Paul is guiding Christians
and telling them what to do indifferent situations if they
should circumcise Gentiles andthings like that.
There's a lot of things here inScripture where Christians
disagree on a subject and thenthere's a decision made and they
(41:43):
just kind of have to live withit.
And we even have it better Ryanthinking slightly different, or
Tim wording something differentthan how we would, or leaning
more towards one thing than theother.
It's very rarely is that.
(42:07):
Should that be a massivesticking point?
There is so much benefit inhaving the majors all together.
Don't get me wrong.
I'm not saying we have someoneon stage who's preaching
blasphemy absolutely not, yeahwe're talking about the
situations and where there wasalready like recorded debate on
(42:28):
it, right, like if it's, if thisperson's walking up there and
just saying something wild, thatjust way out of left field, all
right, let's address that.
You know what I mean.
But if it is something whereit's like a big one speaking in
tongues, always debate it right.
It's not that important mosttimes.
(42:48):
It's not something that justbecause someone sees something
differently, and so we, asChristians, need to pursue unity
together.
Right, and that needs to befirst and foremost.
We need to have fellowshipbetween Christians.
Scripture talks about it overand over, why it's so important.
(43:10):
And then, as we go out andspread the gospel, we're going
to hear things and hear peopleand see people act in ways that
are antithetical to our beliefs,and we have to choose to love
them.
We have to choose to show themlove and give them grace.
(43:32):
Have to choose to show themlove and give them grace Because
, frankly, if you don't believethat Jesus is Lord, there is no
reason that you should submityourself to the scripture.
Let me say it again, so it'sclear If you don't believe in
Jesus, there's no reason thatthey're going to fall under the
law.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Right and Paul says it right.
I wrote this note.
Paul says guard your joy byclinging to the gospel.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
So I mean that right there, and so our job is we need
to, we need to cling to thegospel and those people who
aren't under the law, who aren'tliving how they should, we need
to share the gospel with them.
But if we go to talk tosomebody who is different than
us and we're just ew, I don'twant to talk to that person.
(44:20):
Did you hear them talk aboutwhat they're talking about, or
did you hear the words they said?
They cussed.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
All right, sure, don't bring your little kids
around it.
Have some separation there,right.
Use wisdom, use discernment.
Don't put your kids insituations where.
Have some separation there,right.
Use wisdom, use discernment.
Don't put your kids insituations where they're going
to learn bad habits or something.
Or don't put yourself insituations where you're going to
fall short.
Right, like, maybe you strugglein an area, maybe that's not
your ministry point.
Right, if you are strugglingwith alcoholism, don't go preach
(44:50):
the gospel at a bar.
Yeah, but there's still peoplethat need to hear the gospel,
that are living different thanyou, and those people are going
to live different than you, andour only hope, their only hope,
is to hear the gospel.
If they don't, because they'reweird or they're different, or
(45:11):
they have different proclivities, or they say different things,
or I mean you can just the listgoes on If they don't hear the
gospel, they have no hope.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
When I feel like there's so many, there's so many
introductory ways that you canget into those conversations in
those situations without fallingprey to the situation around
you, right?
So, for instance, the outingthat I went to a bunch of foul
language, right, but being ableto pick out the people who
(45:46):
aren't.
And then it draws thatcuriosity right, like people are
going to see a difference incharacter or a difference in you
know how you're, um, how you'recoming across in a crowd of
people who are acting that way.
And there there was probablythree or four conversations that
I had that.
Who knows why it was prompted.
(46:06):
It could be from the fact thatI was acting differently than
other people, it could be youknow countless things.
But in those situations theopportunity arises where we can
confess our faith and try to atleast plant a seed that can draw
people in.
You know, it was something assimple as he asked you know, do
you have any schooling?
(46:27):
And I told him I'm going toschool right now.
And then the conversation comesup like what are you going to
school for?
And I tell him, and then thatsparks another interest of what
makes you going to school for.
And then I tell them, and thenthat sparks another interest of
well, what makes you want to gofor that?
So it's like in those moments,despite what's going on around
you, like how you approachpeople, how you talk to them and
spark conversations, the deeperyou go, the more you can start
drawing people in and it's.
(46:48):
It's all about the self-controltoo.
You know, anyone can go inthere and just start spewing out
the same words that they are,but it's it's being able to hone
in on that self-control andlisten to the spirit and refrain
from that kind of stuff it'simportant.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
I mean we all want to .
Everybody wants to get alongwith people and have a good time
and not feel like the outcastagain.
That's worldly.
We need to.
We need to be willing to be alittle bit of the outcast.
But when we're talking aboutthis subject and um reaching
people who are lost and pursuingunity with them, um, and when I
(47:29):
it's important that we clarifypursuing unity doesn't mean um
affirm what they're doing.
We're not saying, oh yeah,that's great, go ahead and do
that, that's awesome.
But you know what?
I hear a lot and we hear it somuch, and it's the biggest lie
that Satan tells people.
But I think there also has tobe truth in it.
(47:50):
Right is that Christians arejust going to be mean towards
them because they disagree?
Are all Christians always nice?
Has to be truth in it.
Right Is that Christians arejust going to be mean towards
them because they disagree?
Are all Christians always nice?
No, we're broken.
We're people.
We fall short and we need tofix that period.
There's no.
Show love, pursue unity if atall possible, be at peace with
everybody.
(48:11):
But what I think the world needsto see more of is christians
who are loving and kind and likethey're friends with yeah, just
the normal people they comeinto contact with, like, have
you ever had that situationwhere your buddies with somebody
, or you are getting along withthem and then all, for whatever
(48:35):
reason, they find out you're achristian and they're like taken
aback?
Yeah, that's one of my favoritethings in the world.
Not because I've like hid thatI was a christian.
They just made some assumptionson about me because they're
like, oh, this guy's just anormal guy.
He's not yelling at me ortelling me I should do something
different Because, again, like,share the gospel with them.
But if someone doesn't knowChrist, let's not just sit here
(48:59):
and hound on them about how theyneed to stop doing what they're
doing.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
Right.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
Let them learn.
Let Christ do that part.
He'll convict them.
He'll do all that, but theyneed to come to know Christ.
We need to share the gospelwith them.
And so, in my position, I see Ihave 25 restaurants I take care
of.
And so, in my position, I have25 restaurants I take care of.
Each restaurant has like 30employees.
I see people all the time thathave a million different walks
of life and I've had that wherethey're like you're a pastor,
(49:25):
I'm like, yeah, they're like Ididn't know that Like you seem
normal.
A lot of us are, believe it ornot, christians, we're just
people.
We're just people.
Yep, believe it or notChristians, we're just people.
Yeah, we're just people.
Yeah, and that opens it up toit, makes them see that, look,
just because someone's aChristian doesn't mean they're
just going to yell at us or bashus or be mean to us or not talk
(49:46):
to us because we're different.
There's a big part of lonelinessin that right.
Why do these groups of peoplethat aren't Christian, that are
living antithetical to what Godhas called people to live by?
That's why they group togetherand stay in their little huddle,
because they're only going toget the affirmation and the yeas
and the.
You're doing great, keep doing.
(50:06):
You live your life your way.
But when they find somebody whois just like I'm like, it is
what it is, like I don't know,like do you want me to tell you
everything you're doing wrong?
I could, but is it going to bebeneficial?
But when they then then when he, someone who is a Christian
(50:27):
kind of, invades their, theirhuddle and they're friends with
them, and then they find out andthey're like wait a minute.
you've bamboozled me.
You're not what the world toldme you are.
It opens up the opportunity forthem to see Christians in a
different light, and that's thepoint I was getting at.
Speaker 2 (50:47):
That was a long walk for a short drink of water.
No, I get it because it's likeyou know, we've had this
conversation before.
But the thing is is that andyou touched on it but some of
the most dangerous lies from ourenemy is embedded in some form
of truth.
And you saying that, like youknow, we've had the conversation
of you know the comments thatyou know there's no love like
(51:07):
Christian hate or something.
I don't remember how it goesexactly, but you hear this stuff
all the time and that's whatleads people away from the
church and it's the enemy's liethat's embedded in that partial
truth, because there areChristians that act that way,
but that doesn't mean we all actthat way and that doesn't mean
that all Christians shouldn'tstrive to be better than that.
You know that idea ofChristians.
(51:28):
We shouldn't be reflecting thatkind of light, and I don't
claim to be one of them.
I don't want to be a part ofthe problem that's pushing
people away from the church.
So I get exactly where you'regoing with it, because there are
some very dangerous lies thatare embedded in partial truth.
Speaker 1 (51:48):
Oh yeah and so, ooh, we've gone over a wee bit.
You got a long one today.
You're welcome, guys.
You got to hear our beautifulvoices for an extra 5, 10
minutes, and so we're going towrap up now.
But all of this to say joy isso important and we didn't even
touch on contentment.
(52:09):
Oh, my goodness, we're going togo a little longer, guys.
You ready for this?
Speaker 2 (52:12):
Let's buckle in this whole, the whole sermon series
has been long, dude.
Speaker 1 (52:15):
We could talk about this for hours.
All of this leads into.
God has given us or stems from.
God has given us so much, andour job isn't to worry about
what's going on in the world.
Our job is to share the gospeland create disciples.
Help others discover more inChrist.
That's our church's mission isto help others discover purpose.
(52:38):
Ryan's going to kill me.
It's our purpose and he messedup too.
So he did.
He did.
Our purpose is to help othersdiscover more in Christ.
The Great Commission is that weare to make disciples of all
nations I'm paraphrasing,obviously, of all nations.
I'm paraphrasing obviously.
And so that's all we should befocused on is to fulfilling that
(52:59):
commission, and when we'redoing that, we're focused on God
.
The joy will come.
We need to focus on that Prayconstantly, walk in the Spirit,
practice spiritual disciplines,do all of those things and,
whatever happens, we're going tohave joy through it.
Speaker 2 (53:15):
And my last comment to tag onto that is just
summarizing all of this is guardyour joy, clinging to the
gospel and getting to knowChrist, amen.
Speaker 1 (53:24):
All right, guys, you have a great month, week, year,
all of it.
Have a great time.
We love you.
Talk to you next time.
Bye, Thank you.
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