April 30, 2025 • 63 mins
Doubt doesn't mean your faith is failing – it means you're thinking. In this eye-opening conversation diving into our new sermon series "The Benefit of Doubt," Pastors Ryan and Tim explore how questions and uncertainty can actually strengthen your relationship with God rather than weaken it.
Whether you're questioning God's goodness in difficult circumstances, struggling with difficult passages in Scripture, or wrestling with any other spiritual uncertainty, this episode offers a refreshing perspective that makes room for your questions while strengthening your foundation. Your doubt doesn't have to be a dead end – it can be a doorway to the most authentic faith you've ever experienced.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
A Fresh Wind (00:09):
Welcome and thanks for joining us on this episode
of the Midweek Podcast broughtto you by A Fresh Wind Church.
Each week, our team brings younew content to help you take
steps towards Jesus and discovermore in Christ.
Today's episode is hosted byPastor Ryan.
Pastor Ryan (00:27):
Hey, welcome back to the Midweek Podcast.
Pastor Ryan joined again withPastor Tim and we are kicking
off a new series here on Sundaymornings called the Benefit of
Doubt, based off of a book bypastor and author Craig
Groeschel and, I think,especially coming off of the
Easter sermon, tim.
(00:47):
This is a great series for usto jump into.
Which man one Eastercelebration I know we didn't
have a podcast last week, butman Easter here was awesome.
Pastor Tim (01:00):
It was so good.
We had an incredible time itrocked.
Pastor Ryan (01:03):
So if you missed Easter, you missed a lot, but
you can go back watch theservice online.
But, man, it was awesome.
I love seeing the church sofull.
We had challenged the church toinvite a friend and, man, I
think they took it to heart.
You know, I was praying Godwould fill the building and man,
he filled it.
(01:23):
I thought, man, if we can get60, 80 people in the first
service, that'll make room inthe second service.
And then we had double that inthe first service.
Pastor Tim (01:31):
I was like man, praise the Lord, and we still
didn't have room.
Still didn't have room in thesecond service, the.
Pastor Ryan (01:38):
Lord's working Really exciting stuff, and so
thank you guys for being a partof that Easter celebration.
Thank you for inviting yourfriends and taking that
opportunity to help peoplediscover more in Christ and man.
People were making decisions onEaster Sunday and then, you
know, jumping into this pastSunday, in the new series the
benefit of the doubt we had morepeople making decisions.
(01:59):
Joy and I, we were coming offvacation so we were watching
online, but I, you know, youmade that offer or invitation
for people to accept Christ, andI think there was three or four
that responded to that.
So really just excited aboutthe lives that are being changed
and it's happening every weekhere.
So it's an exciting time to bea part of Fresh Wind, that's for
(02:21):
sure.
Pastor Tim (02:21):
Yeah, and this series comes at a good time
because as soon as you startcoming up on Easter and
everybody starts talking aboutJesus dying on the cross and
resurrecting on the third day,the doubters come out trying to
convince everybody that itdidn't happen and just trying
(02:44):
hey, click on this, I'm going totell you why this is false, and
so forth, and so on.
So you have this whole side ofthe argument where Christians
are like, hey, we're going tocelebrate this, and then the
people who want to.
I don't know why they do it.
A Fresh Wind (03:04):
I don't know why they care.
Pastor Tim (03:06):
I know they do it to Christians, but when Ramadan
comes out or anything, I don'tsee anybody posting stuff about
Islam or anything like that it'svery usually one-sided, isn't
it?
Pastor Ryan (03:18):
Yeah?
Pastor Tim (03:18):
it's very blatant.
Let's put it that way.
You see, all these things, youknow, jesus wasn't crucified, or
there was never a real Jesus,and you hear it all around
Easter everybody wants to be.
You know, let's attack thatthing and get some clicks and
(03:40):
they just want to raise yourlevel of doubt.
That's what they're trying todo, and this is a great time to
talk about doubts in theChristian faith.
Pastor Ryan (03:50):
Yeah, as we plan sermon series, we're praying
through what God would have usto.
It's so encouraging, I guess,to see how faithful God is,
because just the response Sundayto this sermon series was
incredible.
A Fresh Wind (04:06):
And again.
Pastor Ryan (04:07):
We were watching online.
But then you and I had a phonecall after church and, man, just
so many people saying, yeah,I'm in this, I'm wrestling with
it, and I was really prayingthat, coming out of Easter, we
would have an opportunity totalk to people specifically who
you're addressing here.
You know, man, I have my doubtsabout some of this, and even
(04:28):
the disciples did so.
You and I both used Matthew 28in our sermons.
I did it on Easter Sunday andthen you used it again this past
week, but Jesus had resurrectedfrom the dead, shown back up to
the disciples, I think, sunday.
You said there's 13 recordedtimes when he reappeared to them
in his resurrected form andthen when they came to the
(04:49):
mountain that day, it says thatthey worshiped, but some doubted
.
And I thought, man, we got tolean into that.
And so this series is usleaning into that to say, yeah,
yeah, some worshiped.
Worship.
And it's easy to come to churchon a Sunday morning and you look
at everybody and everyone seemsso full of faith, everyone's
(05:10):
hands raised.
You know everyone's singingalong to the songs and um, amen,
into the sermon, and, and thenwe walk out and we're like am I
the only one Right.
Am I the only one?
And I love the fact that theBible doesn't gloss over this.
You know like sometimes youwonder, matthew, why would you
write that?
Why would you write that somedoubted?
(05:31):
Well, he wrote it because somedoubted.
Pastor Tim (05:34):
Like that's how it happened that day, you know.
Yeah, it's important too,because this is the passage that
gives the church its mission.
This is the passage thatdefines what the church is
supposed to do.
And Matthew was like oh yeah, Iknow all that, but some doubt
it, some doubt it.
Pastor Ryan (05:56):
Oh, man, it's one of the reasons I love scripture
is it doesn't shy away from that.
If I was trying to prove that Iam God, that I am Jesus, that I
rose from the dead, I'm leavingthat out.
I want everyone full of faithon fire, ready to go storming
the gates of hell.
Not some of us doubt it.
So I love scripture for doingthat.
(06:19):
It just shows me, proves evenmore, that God can be trusted.
He's not trying to keep stufffrom us.
He's not hiding the scary uglyparts of this.
No, right out in the open, hereit is.
They came, they saw Jesus onthe mountain, the resurrected
Jesus, and they worshiped, butsome doubted, and so on Easter I
(06:42):
talked about how, you know,they're unsure.
What do I do with this?
What am I supposed to do withthis new reality?
I mean, I watched him die, Iwatched them bury him and now
he's standing here.
What does all that mean for meand how am I supposed to move
forward?
And I think a lot of us.
(07:04):
We're coming to church and wehave some of those same
questions.
You know, man, I want tobelieve, or I do believe, in God
and I come and I worship and Ising the songs too.
But I still have my doubts, andso often we feel like we're
alone in that, that we can'ttalk to anybody about that, that
we certainly can't bring it upat church.
(07:25):
You know, what would peoplethink if they knew we had our
doubts?
you know, and so this sermonseries, I'm excited for it, as
we kind of wade into that andsay, hey, this is a, this is a
safe place to bring those thingsin your doubts Don't have to be
a dead end, but they can be adoorway to greater intimacy with
(07:46):
Christ and you find that allthrough the scriptures.
Pastor Tim (07:50):
I made a short list of some of the heroes in the
Bible who doubted, but not onlyheroes in the Bible, but the
writers of the Bible itself.
Psalm 73 is the the they call itthe doubter song and um.
And what's important about thisPsalm and that's your homework,
(08:11):
everybody should read Psalm 73and meditate on it this week is
that he was looking around anduh and and saying God, do you
see this?
What kind of decisions are youmaking up there?
Are you paying attention?
(08:31):
Look at what's going on.
This is what I see.
And as you move through thepsalm, he's wrestling.
But he starts and we talkedabout on sunday that thomas told
him, said I won't believe untilI touch him, but thomas kept
coming back.
He kept coming back right anduh, this, this psalmist.
(08:56):
He comes back right in thebeginning.
Uh, he starts talking about whogod is and who he knows God is.
But God, I got some doubtsabout how you're running this
thing.
And then he goes through andshares his doubts with you and
then he has an ending and I'mnot going to share it with you.
I want you to read it.
(09:16):
I want you to see that you'renot alone.
Even 3,700 years ago, there wassomeone saying God, why did you
do this?
Pastor Ryan (09:27):
Yeah, not to spoil the end but to give you the
beginning, kind of whet yourappetite here a little bit.
He says God is indeed good toIsrael, to the pure in heart,
but as for me, my feet almostslipped I feel that sometimes
man, Just in my own life andsituations that have happened.
(09:48):
And man, to be honest, God hasbeen good.
I look at my life and there's alot of people out there living
a lot harder life than I've beenfortunate to live.
God's been good, he's beenfaithful.
I didn't grow up in some of thehouses that people have grown
up in or in some of thesituations that people have had
(10:08):
to go through, Um, but even I amGod.
Sometimes my feet are slipping,Um.
I remember when I thought Ty,when he was four or five years
old, um thought he might have abrain tumor.
Um, might have a brain tumorcrying in the shower, God, what
is going on here?
This is my son.
(10:30):
Feet almost slipped, you know,and I think this is the point of
the series, not in thisquestioning the reality of God,
but just why, how you know, andI think that that's where a lot
of people are, Um, but then eventhe situations.
As a pastor, you know, you andI, we have the opportunity to
(10:53):
counsel and walk with a lot ofpeople um, through their own
life situations and trials andstruggles.
And yeah, life is tough, it'sheavy, it is heavy, and so you
read something like man.
God is indeed good, but I'mstruggling.
Pastor Tim (11:11):
Right and we talked about it on Sunday the
relatability principle, that werelate better to people who have
struggled like we've struggled.
Matter of fact, is it inPhilippians?
I should have looked this up.
Anyways, it's the scripture,where God leads you through your
(11:34):
struggles so that you can leadsomeone else through theirs,
because people are looking forsomeone that has been hit in the
face.
I know my sister-in-law, shimmy.
She lost her son and peoplecome and talk to her all the
time when they lose theirchildren.
(11:54):
You know, I don't know how tolive now.
I don't know, and she canrelate and she says I didn't
know how I was going to liveeither.
She said I couldn't breathe fortwo months and so I don't talk
about that, that'll get me allmessed up.
(12:14):
I got all messed up, I alreadydid.
But those doubts lead us topeople who have struggled, and
you know I made a joke of it.
You know we lean in towards theguys whose kid is screaming and
licking the floor in thegrocery store.
Then the person who's got itall together on Instagram and we
(12:39):
want to say you know I cantrust him.
But why do we trust him?
We trust him because they'vegot doubts too, and you can sit
down with that guy, cross a cupof coffee and yeah, I read that
book about raising kids too.
It's not working and go backand forth and talk about those
(13:02):
things.
But we relate to people withdoubts and it's good to point
out in the Bible, number one,that a lot of people had doubts
and doubts about what God wasdoing.
I just remember theconversation with Abraham and
Yahweh when they were lookingdown on Sodom and Abraham's well
(13:25):
, you're going to destroy thewhole city.
Well, what if there's 100?
What if there's 50?
I don't know the numbers thatcame down.
What if there's 50?
You sure you want to do this,god?
He had doubts that this is theway that God should go, what God
should do and what God did wasrough.
(13:46):
And I would be the same asAbraham.
Hey, there's kids down there.
What are we talking about?
And we get, these doubts arereal things and we can't ignore
them and we definitely can'tignore them in the Bible.
(14:09):
And if you're a pastor and youpreach around those things,
shame on you, correct Shame onyou.
We need to understand that.
What Martin Luther heard theLord tell him the just shall
live by faith.
The just shall live by faith.
The just shall live by faith.
You're not going to understandeverything.
You're not going to knoweverything, and sometimes, even
(14:33):
when you do what we're going toask you to do here in just a
couple minutes by focusing yourdoubt on answers and letting it
motivate you to pursue Godinstead of turning your back on
him, and that's productive doubt, instead of psychological doubt
(14:55):
with spirals out of control.
And so we're going to talkabout that in a minute.
But we need you to understandthat you're not going to
understand everything you know.
Pastor Ryan (15:06):
A great example of that and I think hopefully this
is encouraging for somebody asyou're in the middle of some of
these doubts and these questions.
Years ago I had a student inthe youth ministry when I was
the youth pastor and really juststruggling with some of the
(15:28):
stuff and decisions that God hadmade in the Old Testament.
I think one verse in particularwas about this idea Jacob I
loved and Esau I hated, beforethey were even born.
How could a loving God do that?
Um and man, I remember sittingaround after youth group on you
(15:51):
know, sunday nights or after anevent that we had, and sometimes
half hour hour hour and twohours just going around.
We, we went on a missions tripto Nicaragua and uh, and one of
the pastors who was helping leadthat trip, stationed from
Nicaragua.
She sat down with him one nightafter dinner and just for two
(16:14):
hours, I think, or more.
They went after this idea, likeher, trying to reconcile some
of these things that happened inthe Old Testament and how could
a good loving God, things thathappened in the Old Testament
and how could a good loving Goddo or allow those things to
happen.
And what I appreciate is shewas really searching for an
answer but not getting asatisfactory answer has led her
(16:38):
to the point where I believe, tomy knowledge, she still has
walked away from the faith Evenso.
Much of this so that her momsent me an email a couple years
ago and was pretty upset with meabout how that whole thing
unfolded, and I had a chance tokind of explain some of the
stuff that went on andconversations that we had.
(17:02):
But people have doubts and we'renot going to understand
everything about God.
The just shall live by faith isa key element to this whole
thing.
To say, yeah, we want you topursue answers, we want you to
use your doubts to dive deeperinto Christ, because it can
cause you to walk away, it cancause you to be angry at God, or
(17:26):
it could be the launching padto an intimate relationship with
God where you know Him as wellas a forgiven sinner can know
Him.
But if you let these one things, you know God.
I can't nail down this onething, and that one thing keeps
you from all the other thingsthat you do know about God,
(17:48):
about his goodness, about hisprovision, about his love for
you, about how he sent his.
There's a lot that I do know,but this one thing what I'm
challenging you in this podcastand throughout this series is
don't allow that one thing thatyou might not know or have an
answer that's satisfactory atthis moment.
(18:09):
Don't let that one thing youhave questions about derail your
faith.
Keep pursuing God.
He is big enough to handle yourdoubts.
Pastor Tim (18:21):
And I think that's more important.
That's just a.
As we were talking before westarted this podcast, I said
whatever you practice.
Whatever you practice when itcomes to doubt is going to be
(18:43):
how you engage your doubt.
And if you let your doubt onand it doesn't even have to be
about God, but if it's yourdoubt about one specific thing
over here that you let derailyou, then you're going to have
one specific thing in the nextbunch derail you, and then the
next doubt derail you, andwhatever you practice becomes
(19:03):
your um standard operatingprocedure when I mean when your
feed grows right and so, uh,we're going to talk now a little
bit about a productive doubt,what productive doubt looks like
, and, uh, and then we're goingto talk a little bit about how,
uh, psychological doubt canderail not just your faith but
(19:27):
your entire life.
When we were talking about thaton Sunday, I said honest doubt,
that you just have an honestdoubt about whether God is good,
that's a good, honest doubt.
He's allowed things to happen.
God is good, that's a good,honest doubt.
(19:47):
He's allowed things to happen.
That you would think, hey, Igot an issue with that, you know
it's got good.
Or he's made some claims aboutwhat you can and can't do and
you want to do some of thosethings.
I would call that that's not anhonest doubt, that's a I want
(20:09):
to doubt this so I can get outof my guilt and push all this
away and go do the thing I wantto do.
So we want to just lay that down.
Every time we talk about doubt,we're talking about honest
doubts, not doubt to use as aleverage to get me where I want
(20:29):
to be and do what I want to do.
But a lot of times the honestdoubt opens the door for Satan
to bring in doubts that willleverage us out.
So we've got to respond to ourhonest doubt in a way that will
be constructive, and the bestway to do that is to look at it
(20:54):
as a signal to deepen yourrelationship with God.
Pastor Ryan (20:58):
Yeah, I remember when Reed and Dar lost their son
and it might have been at theForge, the men's Bible study we
have here on Saturday mornings,where he was just confessing the
guys there and he said I wasreally struggling because I know
that God is good, scripturetells me that God is good, but
my son's also dead.
(21:19):
And he was wrestling with thatand he said all right, I believe
that God is good.
So if there's something in methat is telling me otherwise,
then the problem isn't with God,the problem's with me.
This is the honest, productivedoubt that he says.
I need to dive deeper intoGod's word, I need to know more
(21:41):
about him so that he can revealwho he truly is.
And coming out of that, he said, I have found that God is still
good.
Pastor Tim (21:51):
And it's man.
I wish we could eliminate allthose struggles.
But doubt doesn't mean you'refailing, it means you're
thinking and it's important tothink.
It means you're thinking andit's important to think.
Christianity is not the dumbman's religion, it is salvation.
(22:14):
On our part Seems too easy, toosimple, but when you study
soteriology you realize this isnot easy and it's very complex.
And God has been after thisredemption plan in the garden
(22:35):
with Adam and Eve.
He mentions it and he wasworking towards Jesus this whole
time.
So it's deep and complex onGod's side when you start
studying it.
And I think when we look atChristianity with platitudes,
with bumper sticker theology,you know, let go, let God, you
(22:57):
know God will work this out foryou, whatever the little saying
goes, when there's a lot oftruth in those little sayings.
But it's a whole lot morecomplex than that.
We're complex human beings andwe we're gonna doubt and some of
that doubt is good.
Is that guy gonna stop at hislight?
(23:18):
Should I go?
That doubt is good.
You know, um, is thatpolitician telling me the truth?
That doubt is good?
No, the answer is no, a hard no,and uh, we learned those things
, unfortunately, the hard way.
We grew up, um, believing inSanta Claus and you know, uh, he
(23:40):
ate the cookies.
Somebody ate the cookies anddrank the milk.
You know who could it be.
And as we grow older, we beginto doubt, and that doubt leads
us to what it leads us to truth.
So there is a productive doubtthat we talk about and that's
where we want to be.
It is an uncertainty or aquestion in your mind, in your
(24:06):
heart, and we're talking aboutGod.
So about God or aboutChristianity, that drives
inquiry.
It drives critical thinking andproblem solving, questioning
assumptions and seeking evidenceor even just exploring
(24:26):
possibilities to achieve clarityin your doubt.
And this is productive doubt.
It is something that motivatesyou to get off your butt and
cognitively engage, and that'swhat God wants.
And he's always saying hey,seek me with your whole heart
(24:49):
and you'll find me.
He's like let's engage.
Hey, let's wrestle this out orargue this out.
In Isaiah, one of my favoritescriptures, your sins may be
scarlet, but I can make themwhite as snow, and I want to
wrestle with you.
With that, he renamed JacobIsrael, which means those who
(25:12):
wrestle with God, and that'swhat he wants to do?
He wants to wrestle with thosedoubts.
But when we have doubts and weturn off or we push back or we
procrastinate, that's what wewould call a psychological doubt
that feeds itself and getsbigger and bigger and bigger.
(25:33):
So what we want you to do, whenyou run into a doubt about God,
you run into a doubt about ascripture or the Christian faith
, this is time for you to engage, engage your mind, your
critical thinking, and dive inand start saying, hey, does
anybody know about this?
And most of Christians?
(25:54):
When you have a doubt aboutChristianity, you're going to
run into some big, some bigquestions that we've all been
wrestling with for 2,000 years,since Jesus rose from the dead,
which?
Pastor Ryan (26:11):
can I say this should be encouraging.
There's almost no question thatyou can come up with that
another Christian.
We have an ancient faith andwe've talked about this on the
podcast a few times.
It's thousands of years old andpeople have been asking these
questions to and about God forthe past four or 5,000 years.
(26:32):
Job, here's a guy wrestlingwith some of these things,
saying God, what is going onhere?
We've been arguing this stufffor a long time and so the fact
that you have doubts, bring themto God.
He's not afraid of it and knowthis, you're not alone.
(26:53):
We've been talking about thisand here's the key People.
We've been arguing it forthousands of years and there's
still people who believe thatGod is good.
It hasn't derailed our faith.
It doesn't have to derail yourshasn't derailed our faith.
Pastor Tim (27:12):
It doesn't have to derail yours.
And I think we're in a sociallandscape coming out of the
Jesus revolution back in theseventies.
We're doubting, and this, justcoming from my own personal life
in Christ and growing up inchurch, is that doubt became the
enemy.
Just don't doubt.
Well, I want God to do this forme.
(27:33):
Just don't doubt, and he'll doit for you.
Where's that scripture?
You know?
Oh, you know here.
Let me pluck out some halfscriptures here, and and uh, and
make this assumption that youcan manipulate God if you can
eliminate your doubt and listen.
People, this is not howfollowing Jesus works.
(27:54):
He is the God of all creations,he makes all the decisions and
sometimes he steps out and doessomething especially for you,
because that's the kind of Godhe is.
Thomas said I need to touch thenail prints in his hands, I
need to put my hand in his side.
And Jesus showed up and saidhey, thomas, put your hand here.
(28:17):
And and that's the kind of,that's the kind of God he is.
Did he need to do that?
No, did he have to do that?
Absolutely not.
He could have looked Thomas inthe face and said Thomas, I'm
here, you get it and Thomaswould have said I got it.
He didn't need to touch Jesus.
(28:40):
He was there and talkingstraight to him.
And he could have said you know,your doubts embarrassed me,
thomas, after three years withyou.
You embarrassed me, and I thinkthat's how Christians feel
about doubt that I'membarrassing God, so they try to
hide it.
(29:00):
But what did Jesus do?
He didn't come in there andgrab him by the shoulder and
says I'm here, what are yougoing to do now?
He came in and said here,thomas, this is what you'm here.
What are you going to do now?
He came in and said here,thomas, this is what you said
you needed.
I'm going to give it to you.
You don't need this, but I'mgoing to give it to you anyways.
Pastor Ryan (29:16):
Well, and again going back to Matthew 28, that
you and I both used is someworship.
Some doubted.
Very next verse.
Jesus came near and said Rightand man, easter service.
I was trying to emphasize tothat moment where there are
(29:36):
people up there on the mountainwith God, the resurrected Christ
, saying I'm just not sure whatto do about all this.
He could have said are youserious After all of this?
Said, are you serious afterafter all of this?
Are you serious?
I'm gonna go find some newpeople?
Um, instead, he came near, hecommissioned them, gave them
(29:59):
purpose, gave them a mission offor their life.
Um, he drew near to him and man,I love that about him and he
doesn't shy away from those,those things, and it's one of
the things I mean you know,years ago when, uh, oh, man, I
think we were doing the mediaclub I think is what we called
(30:21):
it way back in the day where wewould read these books and and
we, we picked you picked somebooks that were pretty
challenging, um, to just some ofthe ideas that Christians hold,
um, but all that time Iremember you telling, telling us
doubts or questions lead tointimacy.
When we ask these questionsabout God, it leads us to
(30:44):
intimacy.
And that's, man, if we can useour doubts as that way, this
doorway to intimacy.
That, god.
I'm not sure about this and I'mnot looking for a way out, like
you were talking about earlier.
I'm not looking for leverage touse against you so I can get my
way in this area.
But, god, I want to know youmore and I'm not sure.
(31:04):
I'm not sure about this.
I'm not sure why you would dothis or why you would allow that
, but, god, I want to see itfrom your perspective.
I want to know what you thinkon this man.
Do we begin to unlock arelationship with God that most
people don't experience, becausethe temptation is to just tune
(31:26):
out and shut down, because thisis work.
Right, this is work, it's work.
And when I have doubts, thelast thing I want to do usually
is go to work.
I'm already tired, I'm alreadyworn out, I'm already busy.
Now you're saying I need tosearch these things out and
we're saying, yeah, search themout as you do.
(31:48):
Scripture says that the HolySpirit is going to reveal to you
the deep things of God.
This is when you want to go tothe next level in your
relationship with God.
Search those things out.
Ask the Holy Spirit to revealto you the deep things of God
man.
You get to know them in a waythat most Christians, most
(32:09):
people never will.
Pastor Tim (32:12):
We've practiced Christianity in the easy manner.
I used to call it church light.
You know, let's just make iteasy on everybody.
Let's try to get everythingdone on Sunday.
We'll go to Sunday school.
We'll do our.
Get everything done on SundayWe'll go to Sunday school.
We'll do our Bible studies.
In the evening We'll show up atchurch.
(32:33):
We'll get it all done and wedon't have to worry about it the
rest of the week.
But these doubts that we haveand we always say well, this
must be from Satan.
You think that from Satanyou've got a doubt that's going
to make you drill into God alittle bit more.
Do you think that they mightnot show up?
(32:55):
Or God might be pulling themout in you just to get you to
talk to them about it?
And that's because that's thekind of God he is.
We need to be careful, tryingto ascertain where that's coming
from.
But you're right, we're tootired to start.
What would you call it?
A high order cognitive processof analysis of?
Pastor Ryan (33:20):
finding out.
Pastor Tim (33:20):
I'm already out Right, but this analysis and
synthesis and evaluation ofdifferent things in the
scripture that speak to whatyou're doubting about and trying
to figure out what is going onhere and then not being sure
(33:41):
that you're ever going to knowprecisely.
But God wants you all wrappedup in that and your mind
thinking about it.
And that's why devotion in themorning before you start the day
, that's when I like to do itread the scripture in the
morning, or devotional with thescripture in it.
(34:03):
That keys your mind offthinking about God, because
somewhere in that day, as youthink back on your devotional,
you're going to say well, whydoes that lead to that?
Does that make sense?
I don't know if that makes sense.
And then suddenly you've gotyour own personal cognitive
(34:26):
analysis to do, about yourself,about God, about life in general
.
God loves thinking Christians,not robots.
Pastor Ryan (34:37):
I was just going to say.
He wants to teach you how tothink about things and this is
another verse we use all thetime here.
But he says take every thoughtcaptive and make it obedient to
Christ.
You know like, take thosedoubts, those questions that you
have, and make it obedient toChrist.
How do I do that?
Well, you need some of thiscognitive analysis.
(34:57):
I need to search out thescriptures, I need to pray and
ask the Holy Spirit to give mewisdom and discernment about
these things.
And that's the hard work.
Right, and I know we're tired.
I know the last thing you wantto do is dive in.
But, man, when you take thisstep and God's word begins to
(35:18):
come alive, man, it is water fora thirsty soul man.
Pastor Tim (35:23):
Yeah, you got it.
You got it.
You got to let your doubtmotivate you.
It's got to be a motivationaldrive that doesn't drive you
away from something because youjust don't want to think about
it deeply, you just want toignore it.
It's got to intrigue yourcuriosity.
(35:50):
Wait, I've been a Christian for30 years.
How come I don't know this?
Do other Christians know this?
What's the answer to this?
And now we have the ability toresearch so much more.
But the first place to start isan old cross-reference Bible
(36:10):
and right down the middle, um,you read a word that uh, or a
scripture that you're doubtingabout, or you have a doubt, and
you, you find this scripture andyou're like, well, what does
this mean?
You suddenly just look in themiddle of your Bible.
You can see all these otherscriptures where this thing has
been talked about and this wordhas been used.
(36:33):
And that's a great place tostart.
But we've got with the internet.
Now we can really dive in andfind really research things.
So here's a question a lot ofpeople have about the end of
Mark, last chapter of Mark, 9through 20, I think those are
(36:53):
the verses showed up around thefifth century.
Okay, and everybody knows thatit's not a secret.
Okay, if you talk to anybiblical scholar, either secular
or religious, they'll say yeah,that wasn't there and there's a
lot of questions about why it'sthere now.
(37:15):
But we know that we got nineguys, early church fathers
before the fifth century, whoquote those verses that weren't
there until the fifth century.
And then we've got manuscriptsthat left a gap for those verses
(37:40):
in their manuscripts becausethey just at the end of Mark,
they just they go on to Luke toluke you know, and.
But they left a gap for them,like they were trying to decide
whether something was going togo there or not.
And when they got the go aheadto put it in, they were going to
put it in or not.
And, um, I have, I've studiedthe scripture and I've taught,
(38:04):
and I always bring up, you know,the ending of Mark is not in
there till the fifth century,but I had no idea that there was
nine guys who quoted Mark.
Uh, those verses, nine through20, um, before the fifth century
.
And now I'm, I'm, you know,it's opened my mind and it is
raised curiosity.
(38:25):
And how come?
I didn't know that and I wouldhave never known it.
Looking at a commentary, justone of my dad's big book
commentaries.
I got them lined up in myoffice downstairs.
I would have never known thatlooking at that.
But the research out there thatyou can find on the internet is
just amazing.
(38:46):
And those type of things shouldfuel your intrinsic curiosity
and produce a motivation toresolve that doubt, that
uncertainty that you have.
But taking what we said in thebeginning, that you might not,
(39:10):
and um, but taking what we saidin the beginning, uh, that you
might not resolve it completely.
But, man, that I want to knowabout this is what is what God
is feeding you?
Pastor Ryan (39:18):
Yeah, and you're going to say I don't know if I
have the time for this, um, buthere's what I I what else I know
.
Um, when you had to buy a newlawnmower, you did some research
.
Pastor Tim (39:30):
Yeah.
Pastor Ryan (39:30):
When you were looking at a new pair of, you
know, in-ear headphones AirPodsversus Bose you did some
research.
Yeah.
Pastor Tim (39:38):
You wanted the AirPods that each one can work
independently of the other,depending on where you're
sitting you definitely want tobe able to use the left ear pod
without the right right.
Pastor Ryan (39:51):
That that's key folks.
If you're married, you'remarried.
You need to be able to do thatnow.
Pastor Tim (39:57):
You can take what are they talking about and do
some real research and figureout what are these two married
guys talking about.
Pastor Ryan (40:06):
So um, I I'm saying you've done this kind of
research before, right, you canapply that same curiosity, that
same desire for information andI want to know if I'm going to
spend my money on something, Iwant it to be the best thing I
can get.
Take that same level ofresearch and say, man, god, I
(40:26):
have this question and I want toknow what you think about it
and dive into it, get lost onthe internet for a little bit,
or in your Bible or in somecommentaries for a while, and
search it out and let God revealto you his heart on that thing.
And you're going to come outthe other side feeling like man,
I'm standing on something.
(40:47):
Come out the other side feelinglike man, I'm standing on
something solid.
Right, that doubt, thatquestion, isn't just constantly
nagging away at you, eating awayat you, because that's the
problem.
Pastor Tim (40:59):
If you don't ever address it, it's always there,
right.
And when you do address it,when you do address it, even
when you come out on the otherend and you think, well, I kind
of get it, but you don't alwaysget it, it builds a resilience,
of absolute strength in you thatsays I can deal with doubt, you
know, I, I can deal with it Idon't.
Pastor Ryan (41:19):
It doesn't control me.
Pastor Tim (41:20):
Too many christians don't exercise exactly exactly,
that's a great way to put it.
And, uh, I think you know we'vegot scientists who do this.
Every day they go in.
I doubt that that's exactlywhat's happening when we split
this atom.
I have no idea how they'd comeup with that question, but
they're trying to figure it out.
(41:41):
And we kind of got my job.
I got through school.
Now I'm just going to run onthe treadmill and I'm I'm not
gonna I'm gonna procrastinateabout thinking about things that
I should probably think about.
Uh, that goes with our finances, our uh life insurance.
(42:03):
And you know, I don't know howmany times people said I need to
go over my insurance and see ifI'm paying too much for my
insurance.
I say that too.
How many times have I done it?
None.
There's places on the internetsays we'll do it for you and and
we're like nah, because then atthe no cost, no obligation,
quote yeah and then at the atthe end you say, say I don't
(42:26):
want to make a decision aboutthat, I don't want to have to
call the insurance agent, makethem switch over and all that
kind of stuff.
It's just I don't want to dothat, I don't want to engage.
And those things, when we learnto engage with them, can only
help us.
Let's take that doubt, let'srun it down, and then all know
(42:52):
how big that doubt is and howmuch it affects me, whether it's
your insurance or it's yoursoteriology, you know yeah.
Pastor Ryan (43:00):
And so here's here's a little bit of the
differences, then, betweenproductive doubt and this kind
of psychological doubt that weget stuck in the productive
doubt.
That's what we're aiming for,that's what we're saying, this
honest doubt that leads us tointimacy.
Psychological doubt is thatdoubt where we get all stuck in
our head.
It impairs our decision-making.
(43:21):
This is what probablycontributes to things like
anxiety and depression, whereI'm constantly stuck in this
loop.
How do I know the difference?
I have doubt.
How do I know which one ofthese it is?
I think here's some of the keydifferences to let you know
whether you're pursuing healthyor unhealthy doubt.
(43:42):
First off, productive doubt isconstructive and rational.
It's building you up intosomething right.
It's thinking, it's activatingthat muscle in your brain.
Psychological doubt isdestructive and it's often
irrational, right.
Pastor Tim (44:00):
Filled with generalizations and
catastrophizing.
And did I say that right?
I think so, yeah, whereeverything's going to go bad.
Or if you're thinking about God.
Well, he never answers myprayer.
He never steps in for me.
You know, you start thosegeneralizations or the what-if
(44:22):
questions.
Pastor Ryan (44:23):
What if this?
What if this?
What if this?
A Fresh Wind (44:26):
I mean, that is bottomless, right you can take
that to the bottom.
Pastor Ryan (44:28):
What if, what if, what if, what if, what if?
Yeah, irrational, productivedoubt drives inquiry and growth.
You talked about thatPsychological doubt undermines
confidence and clarity.
So when you're saying God, Ijust man, I don't know.
And is this true or are yougood?
You're moving into thatpsychological doubt where you're
(44:50):
no longer pursuing the truthabout God but you're finding
things or entertaining thingsthat are undermining your
confidence.
Pastor Tim (44:58):
Yeah, it becomes a big mush that your original
doubt that got you here.
You can't even name it anymorebecause it's wrapped up in
everything else.
And that's where Satan steps inwhen you're doubting about a
thing he wants you to be.
(45:19):
You're never going to find thisanswer.
Um, this is something that'sunknowable about God and you
just need to suck it up.
You sissy, you know that typeof and that's just not your
pastor teaching you.
Sometimes that's Satan tryingto say you know these things
about God.
You are never going tounderstand, and you just?
(45:41):
Why don't you just relax andquit worrying about it?
And he derails us from inquiry.
Pastor Ryan (45:49):
Yep, here's the emotional tone.
I guess that would help.
You know, productive doubtsparks curiosity, inquiry we
talked about.
There's this uncertainty, kindof like the disciples on the
mountain.
I'm not sure what to do withthis Psychological doubt.
(46:10):
On the other hand, is feelingsof anxiety, fear, distress,
depression.
Those are things that arefueled by that psychological
doubt, that endless loop.
Pastor Tim (46:23):
I think one thing we need to understand about this
that both of these sidesproductive doubt and
psychological doubt um, theyfeed each other.
Just like you said earlier,it's what you feed is what
you're going to have more of.
And psychological doubt can justrun you into.
(46:44):
I don't want my husband toleave for work because I just am
not sure about him and there'sgot to be a time where you've
got to put faith in somethingand it can derail you.
But those words you use anxiety, you know.
Fear that's when it's gettingout of control.
(47:08):
You should be wondering oruncertain, but when it turns
into fear and anxiety,something's wrong.
You need to look at that again.
Yep, for sure.
Pastor Ryan (47:21):
So here's the difference in outcomes.
Then, productive doubt leads toinnovation, to learning,
resilience we talked about.
Psychological doubt leads tothat avoidance, that indecision,
that mental strain where it'sjust I'm checking out, I can't
even deal with it.
So two different outcomes thatwe're going to see there Control
(47:42):
, productive outcome or doubtleads to deliberate.
A deliberateness ofself-regulated or psychological
doubt is involuntary, it'soverwhelming.
Pastor Tim (47:53):
I just feel under the weight of this.
Yeah, yeah, that's, that'sgreat.
Yeah, it's just.
I feel that where it just Ilike that word you said it's
involuntary, it just overwhelmsme.
But on the other side it'sself-regulated.
(48:16):
Oh, I got a half an hour.
I'm going gonna look this up.
Oh, my gosh, that's huge.
I'm gonna have to come back tothis tonight, you know it, it,
it's self-regulated, it'sdeliberate yeah it's like I
gotta figure this out and you're.
But you know, when you're inthat mood and that doubt hits
(48:39):
you, you just get swamped.
It's like walking out into theocean and you know you don't see
that wave and it's just likewham.
Yeah, that's a big differencein how you live your life.
Pastor Ryan (48:51):
Yeah, where you pick it up, you look at it and
then you put it down, right, andI go back to life and I enjoy
the goodness of God.
And then I'm going to come backand I'm going to pick that
thing up, I'm going to look atit from a new angle and then I'm
going to set it back down andI'm going to chew on that for a
little bit.
It's not that overwhelmingconsuming.
I can't even function right now.
(49:13):
Like your snowblower Correcthow Like your snowblower.
Pastor Tim (49:15):
Correct.
How long have you had it?
Pastor Ryan (49:16):
Two years, at least two years, still can't get it
running.
Pastor Tim (49:20):
Every now and then he goes out there and
deliberately tries to fix it.
Pastor Ryan (49:24):
I'd stare at.
It is what I do, man.
I wish you worked.
But these are some of the waysthat you can begin to know.
Which doubt are you feeding,which doubt are you entertaining
?
That productive, honest doubtthat leads you to intimacy, or
that unhealthy psychologicaldoubt that's this endless loop
that just feeds and breedsanxiety and uncertainty and fear
(49:46):
?
Um, it's, you're going to growone of them.
Uh, cause doubts are going tocome.
Even the the best of us havedoubts.
Um man, who was the famousevangelist, was it?
John Wesley?
Said at the end of it he's likeI just hope that.
Pastor Tim (50:05):
That was Jonathan Edwards.
Pastor Ryan (50:06):
Edwards.
People were getting thousandsof people getting saved
listening to that guy preach andat the end he goes man, I just
hope, like, what are you talkingabout, man?
If you aren't in, what hope isthere for any of us?
That's not where we want you tobe.
(50:27):
John said I have written thesethings so that you may know, you
have eternal life and Christian.
if you search out these thingswith this productive doubt that
you lead it to dive you deeperinto God's Word, you can grow a
vibrant relationship with Christwhere you know Him as well as
(50:47):
any forgiven sinner can.
Pastor Tim (50:49):
And if you have got into that spiraling,
overwhelming doubt, let me getyou started.
Pastor Ryan (51:03):
Specify your specificity did I say that one
right Again.
I think you got it right.
I don't normally get thoseright, it's good coffee today.
Pastor Tim (51:23):
When you yeah, when you get drilled in on one thing,
you can get an answer.
But if you let that one thingengage all these other things
and it seems so overwhelming, um, just specify uh lord, are you
good?
Uh lord, how do I know I'msaved?
Uh lord, how do I know somebodyelse is saved?
Lord, you know?
(51:44):
Whatever that question is thatyou're struggling with?
Um, just say, okay, let's focuson this one and we'll dive in
and we'll let all these otherthings you know cook over here.
But I'm going to take one out,I'm going to beat it to death,
I'm going to be motivated, I'mgoing to engage my critical
(52:06):
thinking, I'm going to thinkabout this.
I'm going to ask God to teachme.
I'm going to be quiet beforehim so he can talk to me.
I'm going to do everything Ican to let the Lord lay this out
for me.
And then, once you get thereand you've done that, okay, let
(52:26):
me reach over here in this massof whatever and pull one more
thing out.
Pastor Ryan (52:33):
You know, it's the difference the way Jesus said it
between someone who buildstheir house on the sand and
someone who builds their houseon the rock.
And a lot of us, our Christianlife, is built like a house of
cards man.
And so you take one and thewhole thing comes crashing down.
You go to college and you getone professor who starts to poke
some holes in some stuff andnow your whole house of cards
(52:55):
has fallen down.
And this isn't a perfectillustration, because I know
Jenga blocks eventually falldown too, right.
But if you can treat it morelike, that Jenga block where you
can poke one of those thingsout in the structure still
stands and I can look at it andI can turn it over and I can
examine it and then, when Godteaches me what that is, I shove
(53:15):
it back in and it's strong.
You know, I've I'm, I'm nottossed by the every wave in the
sea.
I stand secure and then grabsomething else out and I can
look at that one and I put itback.
But that house of cards, assoon as one of them comes out,
the whole thing comes crashingdown.
And I my fear is too many, toomany Christians thing comes
(53:41):
crashing down.
My fear is too many Christians,our faith, is like that house
of cards and one thing will leadit to crash down.
Don't let one doubt, oneuncertainty about God derail
everything, and we've said thisfrom the very beginning there's
going to be things that youdon't know, and you're going to
bring it to God, and and you'renot going to come away with an
(54:01):
answer that that you feel issatisfactory.
Um, we said earlier the justshall live by faith.
But you said on Sunday well,the Bible says so doesn't always
help, right.
And so what are some thingsthat we can do when we don't
know, when the answer's not whatwe hoped or that it feels sure
(54:26):
enough, I think.
Number one it's important toacknowledge your doubts.
Tim said be specific about it.
That's a great place to start.
Write that thing down and don'tjust wonder about it anymore.
Acknowledge those things andbring it to God, knowing that in
(54:47):
those doubts he comes near tous, he draws closer to us.
The second thing I think we cando is talk it out, man.
Go to your life group and askyour life group leader, or sit
down with a Christian mentor orfriend that you trust and talk
about it.
Ladies, go to the ladies' Biblestudy on Tuesday mornings.
(55:08):
Men show up at the forge and,after it's all over, say hey, by
the way, I've been thinkingabout this.
That usually happens in thebeginning.
Pastor Tim (55:17):
It derails everything, but it's still great
Right and because you broughtthat out, leads us to the next
one Seek understanding, notcertainty.
So when those things happen upat the forge and they say, what
about the security of thebeliever?
(55:37):
And we'll talk about, uh,several different studies of
soteriology, studies ofsalvation, we won't talk about
just the one.
I think is true, you know we'llwell, some Christians believe
this and some Christians believethat this is how they structure
(55:59):
this.
And I get understanding withoutcertainty and that's something
that Christianity needs toChristians, not Christianity
Christians need to say I'm goingto try to understand it as much
as I can, because sometimes Iwon't walk away with certainty.
(56:23):
There's some things that if yougo to like a seminary and you
talk to their professors andtheir theologians and that you
were just certain aboutsomething, they'll all just roll
their eyes at you.
And that you were just certainabout something, they'll all
(56:45):
just roll their eyes at you andwe understand it, but certainty
you haven't studied enough.
Pastor Ryan (56:48):
Yeah, certainty is a hard thing in any topic to
truly nail down.
So the goal isn't to eliminateevery question, right, but we're
trying to build a strongerfoundation, something that, when
the winds come, I can be secureon.
Next thing and I think this isso important you need to, even
when there's doubt, stick toyour spiritual habits.
Pastor Tim (57:08):
Listen, this is so important because there's a lot
of the questions that you haveabout the faith that the Lord
will teach you and you willnever even realize you had a
question because you stuck toyour spiritual habits.
You've read through it, you'vestudied it, the Holy Spirit has
taught it to you, but whenyou're out there alone, you're
never engaging with the Lord,you're never learning anything.
(57:31):
And suddenly oh.
I got this huge question what amI going to do?
And the Lord says if you wouldhave just kept reading that
chapter, I would have showed you.
Pastor Ryan (57:42):
How many times have we stopped short, man?
So stick to those habits.
Keep praying, keep readingRight, absolutely, even when
it's tough, even when you'retired, even when you're
uncertain.
It doesn't need to be profoundevery time, it doesn't need to
be perfect every time.
Stick with it.
Next, focus on gratitude, man.
Thank God for the good he hasdone in your life, thank him for
(58:05):
the faithfulness that he hasshown in your life, and I think
when we practice gratitude inthat way, it counterbalances the
negativity or the uncertaintythat we have.
And finally, and I want toencourage you, be patient with
yourself.
We look at some of our you knowthese spiritual giants that we
(58:27):
have.
Or we look at some Christianmentors or pastors, and they
look so strong and so steady intheir faith.
I want you to know, as one ofyour pastors, that has only come
through the doubts, not inspite of them.
(58:49):
You develop a strong faith whenyou've gone through some stuff
and you've leaned back intoGod's faithfulness, and so be
patient with yourself.
This kind of relationship withGod takes time.
It's why we call it arelationship.
It's a journey, and it takeswork.
A Fresh Wind (59:07):
Yep.
Pastor Tim (59:11):
And God likes to wrestle.
He's like that grandpa thatcomes in.
The first thing he does is hegets down on the ground.
Let's wrestle, you know, andand this is this is what he
wants he created a phenomenalmind in you and I don't care how
smart you think you are, youare not where god wants you to
(59:31):
be.
He wants you to wrestle withthings, and because when we
wrestle with them and we win,it's a victory in your life.
God loves to engage your mind.
He's not looking for blindfaith.
He wants faith built on afoundation with a cornerstone
Jesus Christ and he wants yourfaith to be strong.
(59:55):
Even though there might be somegaps in there, he still wants
it to be strong, and he'slooking to get you on the floor
and wrestle you up.
And so if you're one of thoseguys, grandpa, please don't
touch.
No, don't, I don't.
I don't feel safe doing this.
You know I'm sorry, but that'swho God is.
(01:00:15):
He wants to grab a hold of youand get you in the word and in
prayer and say let's wrestlethis out, let's do it, let's go.
Pastor Ryan (01:00:25):
And you might walk with a limp for the rest of your
life.
Yes it could happen, but it's asign that your faith is living,
that it's breathing, that it'salive.
These things don't have to be adead end.
They can be a doorway togreater intimacy with Christ,
and so I think we might havejust hit the record for longest
podcast we've done.
Pastor Tim (01:00:46):
It was a good one.
You were on the ball today, man.
I was writing stuff down.
Pastor Ryan (01:00:52):
Here's what.
I think.
It's probably the longest,because this is so important,
it's so real and it's where somany of us are, and so hopefully
this has been encouraging foryou.
We've got a couple more weeksto continue talking about this
topic, and so I'm excited forwhat God's going to do.
But, pastor Tim, will you prayfor us?
Pastor Tim (01:01:10):
I will, Father.
I want to lift up our churchand anybody who hears this
podcast today that we'll justlet our doubts draw us near to
you.
You promise in James that if wedraw near to you, you'll draw
near to us and instead ofletting doubts make us lean away
(01:01:33):
, that they'll make us leantowards you for a good wrestling
match that you're looking tohave with us.
Father, we want to pursue youwith our whole heart.
So let our doubts motivate usto answer questions, motivate us
to research, analyze, digdeeper, instead of wearing us
(01:02:02):
out.
Another doubt.
I'm just wear it out.
I'm wore out thinking aboutthis.
I don't want to think about itanymore.
Lord, I pray that your HolySpirit will rise up in your
people and draw them into aquestioning search for
understanding in their doubts.
Father, this is what we'relooking for through this series.
(01:02:24):
Father, I pray that you'llteach us that.
In Jesus' name, Amen, Amen.
A Fresh Wind (01:02:29):
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the Midweek Podcast.
We'd love to hear from you.
Let us know how God is usingthis resource in your life, or
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afreshwindorg.
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(01:02:52):
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Midweek Podcast.
Be blessed and have a greatweek.
Welcome and thanks for joining us on this episode
of the Midweek Podcast broughtto you by A Fresh Wind Church.
Each week, our team brings younew content to help you take
steps towards Jesus and discovermore in Christ.
Today's episode is hosted byPastor Ryan.
Pastor Ryan (00:27):
Hey, welcome back to the Midweek Podcast.
Pastor Ryan joined again withPastor Tim and we are kicking
off a new series here on Sundaymornings called the Benefit of
Doubt, based off of a book bypastor and author Craig
Groeschel and, I think,especially coming off of the
Easter sermon, tim.
(00:47):
This is a great series for usto jump into.
Which man one Eastercelebration I know we didn't
have a podcast last week, butman Easter here was awesome.
Pastor Tim (01:00):
It was so good.
We had an incredible time itrocked.
Pastor Ryan (01:03):
So if you missed Easter, you missed a lot, but
you can go back watch theservice online.
But, man, it was awesome.
I love seeing the church sofull.
We had challenged the church toinvite a friend and, man, I
think they took it to heart.
You know, I was praying Godwould fill the building and man,
he filled it.
(01:23):
I thought, man, if we can get60, 80 people in the first
service, that'll make room inthe second service.
And then we had double that inthe first service.
Pastor Tim (01:31):
I was like man, praise the Lord, and we still
didn't have room.
Still didn't have room in thesecond service, the.
Pastor Ryan (01:38):
Lord's working Really exciting stuff, and so
thank you guys for being a partof that Easter celebration.
Thank you for inviting yourfriends and taking that
opportunity to help peoplediscover more in Christ and man.
People were making decisions onEaster Sunday and then, you
know, jumping into this pastSunday, in the new series the
benefit of the doubt we had morepeople making decisions.
(01:59):
Joy and I, we were coming offvacation so we were watching
online, but I, you know, youmade that offer or invitation
for people to accept Christ, andI think there was three or four
that responded to that.
So really just excited aboutthe lives that are being changed
and it's happening every weekhere.
So it's an exciting time to bea part of Fresh Wind, that's for
(02:21):
sure.
Pastor Tim (02:21):
Yeah, and this series comes at a good time
because as soon as you startcoming up on Easter and
everybody starts talking aboutJesus dying on the cross and
resurrecting on the third day,the doubters come out trying to
convince everybody that itdidn't happen and just trying
(02:44):
hey, click on this, I'm going totell you why this is false, and
so forth, and so on.
So you have this whole side ofthe argument where Christians
are like, hey, we're going tocelebrate this, and then the
people who want to.
I don't know why they do it.
A Fresh Wind (03:04):
I don't know why they care.
Pastor Tim (03:06):
I know they do it to Christians, but when Ramadan
comes out or anything, I don'tsee anybody posting stuff about
Islam or anything like that it'svery usually one-sided, isn't
it?
Pastor Ryan (03:18):
Yeah?
Pastor Tim (03:18):
it's very blatant.
Let's put it that way.
You see, all these things, youknow, jesus wasn't crucified, or
there was never a real Jesus,and you hear it all around
Easter everybody wants to be.
You know, let's attack thatthing and get some clicks and
(03:40):
they just want to raise yourlevel of doubt.
That's what they're trying todo, and this is a great time to
talk about doubts in theChristian faith.
Pastor Ryan (03:50):
Yeah, as we plan sermon series, we're praying
through what God would have usto.
It's so encouraging, I guess,to see how faithful God is,
because just the response Sundayto this sermon series was
incredible.
A Fresh Wind (04:06):
And again.
Pastor Ryan (04:07):
We were watching online.
But then you and I had a phonecall after church and, man, just
so many people saying, yeah,I'm in this, I'm wrestling with
it, and I was really prayingthat, coming out of Easter, we
would have an opportunity totalk to people specifically who
you're addressing here.
You know, man, I have my doubtsabout some of this, and even
(04:28):
the disciples did so.
You and I both used Matthew 28in our sermons.
I did it on Easter Sunday andthen you used it again this past
week, but Jesus had resurrectedfrom the dead, shown back up to
the disciples, I think, sunday.
You said there's 13 recordedtimes when he reappeared to them
in his resurrected form andthen when they came to the
(04:49):
mountain that day, it says thatthey worshiped, but some doubted
.
And I thought, man, we got tolean into that.
And so this series is usleaning into that to say, yeah,
yeah, some worshiped.
Worship.
And it's easy to come to churchon a Sunday morning and you look
at everybody and everyone seemsso full of faith, everyone's
(05:10):
hands raised.
You know everyone's singingalong to the songs and um, amen,
into the sermon, and, and thenwe walk out and we're like am I
the only one Right.
Am I the only one?
And I love the fact that theBible doesn't gloss over this.
You know like sometimes youwonder, matthew, why would you
write that?
Why would you write that somedoubted?
(05:31):
Well, he wrote it because somedoubted.
Pastor Tim (05:34):
Like that's how it happened that day, you know.
Yeah, it's important too,because this is the passage that
gives the church its mission.
This is the passage thatdefines what the church is
supposed to do.
And Matthew was like oh yeah, Iknow all that, but some doubt
it, some doubt it.
Pastor Ryan (05:56):
Oh, man, it's one of the reasons I love scripture
is it doesn't shy away from that.
If I was trying to prove that Iam God, that I am Jesus, that I
rose from the dead, I'm leavingthat out.
I want everyone full of faithon fire, ready to go storming
the gates of hell.
Not some of us doubt it.
So I love scripture for doingthat.
(06:19):
It just shows me, proves evenmore, that God can be trusted.
He's not trying to keep stufffrom us.
He's not hiding the scary uglyparts of this.
No, right out in the open, hereit is.
They came, they saw Jesus onthe mountain, the resurrected
Jesus, and they worshiped, butsome doubted, and so on Easter I
(06:42):
talked about how, you know,they're unsure.
What do I do with this?
What am I supposed to do withthis new reality?
I mean, I watched him die, Iwatched them bury him and now
he's standing here.
What does all that mean for meand how am I supposed to move
forward?
And I think a lot of us.
(07:04):
We're coming to church and wehave some of those same
questions.
You know, man, I want tobelieve, or I do believe, in God
and I come and I worship and Ising the songs too.
But I still have my doubts, andso often we feel like we're
alone in that, that we can'ttalk to anybody about that, that
we certainly can't bring it upat church.
(07:25):
You know, what would peoplethink if they knew we had our
doubts?
you know, and so this sermonseries, I'm excited for it, as
we kind of wade into that andsay, hey, this is a, this is a
safe place to bring those thingsin your doubts Don't have to be
a dead end, but they can be adoorway to greater intimacy with
(07:46):
Christ and you find that allthrough the scriptures.
Pastor Tim (07:50):
I made a short list of some of the heroes in the
Bible who doubted, but not onlyheroes in the Bible, but the
writers of the Bible itself.
Psalm 73 is the the they call itthe doubter song and um.
And what's important about thisPsalm and that's your homework,
(08:11):
everybody should read Psalm 73and meditate on it this week is
that he was looking around anduh and and saying God, do you
see this?
What kind of decisions are youmaking up there?
Are you paying attention?
(08:31):
Look at what's going on.
This is what I see.
And as you move through thepsalm, he's wrestling.
But he starts and we talkedabout on sunday that thomas told
him, said I won't believe untilI touch him, but thomas kept
coming back.
He kept coming back right anduh, this, this psalmist.
(08:56):
He comes back right in thebeginning.
Uh, he starts talking about whogod is and who he knows God is.
But God, I got some doubtsabout how you're running this
thing.
And then he goes through andshares his doubts with you and
then he has an ending and I'mnot going to share it with you.
I want you to read it.
(09:16):
I want you to see that you'renot alone.
Even 3,700 years ago, there wassomeone saying God, why did you
do this?
Pastor Ryan (09:27):
Yeah, not to spoil the end but to give you the
beginning, kind of whet yourappetite here a little bit.
He says God is indeed good toIsrael, to the pure in heart,
but as for me, my feet almostslipped I feel that sometimes
man, Just in my own life andsituations that have happened.
(09:48):
And man, to be honest, God hasbeen good.
I look at my life and there's alot of people out there living
a lot harder life than I've beenfortunate to live.
God's been good, he's beenfaithful.
I didn't grow up in some of thehouses that people have grown
up in or in some of thesituations that people have had
(10:08):
to go through, Um, but even I amGod.
Sometimes my feet are slipping,Um.
I remember when I thought Ty,when he was four or five years
old, um thought he might have abrain tumor.
Um, might have a brain tumorcrying in the shower, God, what
is going on here?
This is my son.
(10:30):
Feet almost slipped, you know,and I think this is the point of
the series, not in thisquestioning the reality of God,
but just why, how you know, andI think that that's where a lot
of people are, Um, but then eventhe situations.
As a pastor, you know, you andI, we have the opportunity to
(10:53):
counsel and walk with a lot ofpeople um, through their own
life situations and trials andstruggles.
And yeah, life is tough, it'sheavy, it is heavy, and so you
read something like man.
God is indeed good, but I'mstruggling.
Pastor Tim (11:11):
Right and we talked about it on Sunday the
relatability principle, that werelate better to people who have
struggled like we've struggled.
Matter of fact, is it inPhilippians?
I should have looked this up.
Anyways, it's the scripture,where God leads you through your
(11:34):
struggles so that you can leadsomeone else through theirs,
because people are looking forsomeone that has been hit in the
face.
I know my sister-in-law, shimmy.
She lost her son and peoplecome and talk to her all the
time when they lose theirchildren.
(11:54):
You know, I don't know how tolive now.
I don't know, and she canrelate and she says I didn't
know how I was going to liveeither.
She said I couldn't breathe fortwo months and so I don't talk
about that, that'll get me allmessed up.
(12:14):
I got all messed up, I alreadydid.
But those doubts lead us topeople who have struggled, and
you know I made a joke of it.
You know we lean in towards theguys whose kid is screaming and
licking the floor in thegrocery store.
Then the person who's got itall together on Instagram and we
(12:39):
want to say you know I cantrust him.
But why do we trust him?
We trust him because they'vegot doubts too, and you can sit
down with that guy, cross a cupof coffee and yeah, I read that
book about raising kids too.
It's not working and go backand forth and talk about those
(13:02):
things.
But we relate to people withdoubts and it's good to point
out in the Bible, number one,that a lot of people had doubts
and doubts about what God wasdoing.
I just remember theconversation with Abraham and
Yahweh when they were lookingdown on Sodom and Abraham's well
(13:25):
, you're going to destroy thewhole city.
Well, what if there's 100?
What if there's 50?
I don't know the numbers thatcame down.
What if there's 50?
You sure you want to do this,god?
He had doubts that this is theway that God should go, what God
should do and what God did wasrough.
(13:46):
And I would be the same asAbraham.
Hey, there's kids down there.
What are we talking about?
And we get, these doubts arereal things and we can't ignore
them and we definitely can'tignore them in the Bible.
(14:09):
And if you're a pastor and youpreach around those things,
shame on you, correct Shame onyou.
We need to understand that.
What Martin Luther heard theLord tell him the just shall
live by faith.
The just shall live by faith.
The just shall live by faith.
You're not going to understandeverything.
You're not going to knoweverything, and sometimes, even
(14:33):
when you do what we're going toask you to do here in just a
couple minutes by focusing yourdoubt on answers and letting it
motivate you to pursue Godinstead of turning your back on
him, and that's productive doubt, instead of psychological doubt
(14:55):
with spirals out of control.
And so we're going to talkabout that in a minute.
But we need you to understandthat you're not going to
understand everything you know.
Pastor Ryan (15:06):
A great example of that and I think hopefully this
is encouraging for somebody asyou're in the middle of some of
these doubts and these questions.
Years ago I had a student inthe youth ministry when I was
the youth pastor and really juststruggling with some of the
(15:28):
stuff and decisions that God hadmade in the Old Testament.
I think one verse in particularwas about this idea Jacob I
loved and Esau I hated, beforethey were even born.
How could a loving God do that?
Um and man, I remember sittingaround after youth group on you
(15:51):
know, sunday nights or after anevent that we had, and sometimes
half hour hour hour and twohours just going around.
We, we went on a missions tripto Nicaragua and uh, and one of
the pastors who was helping leadthat trip, stationed from
Nicaragua.
She sat down with him one nightafter dinner and just for two
(16:14):
hours, I think, or more.
They went after this idea, likeher, trying to reconcile some
of these things that happened inthe Old Testament and how could
a good loving God, things thathappened in the Old Testament
and how could a good loving Goddo or allow those things to
happen.
And what I appreciate is shewas really searching for an
answer but not getting asatisfactory answer has led her
(16:38):
to the point where I believe, tomy knowledge, she still has
walked away from the faith Evenso.
Much of this so that her momsent me an email a couple years
ago and was pretty upset with meabout how that whole thing
unfolded, and I had a chance tokind of explain some of the
stuff that went on andconversations that we had.
(17:02):
But people have doubts and we'renot going to understand
everything about God.
The just shall live by faith isa key element to this whole
thing.
To say, yeah, we want you topursue answers, we want you to
use your doubts to dive deeperinto Christ, because it can
cause you to walk away, it cancause you to be angry at God, or
(17:26):
it could be the launching padto an intimate relationship with
God where you know Him as wellas a forgiven sinner can know
Him.
But if you let these one things, you know God.
I can't nail down this onething, and that one thing keeps
you from all the other thingsthat you do know about God,
(17:48):
about his goodness, about hisprovision, about his love for
you, about how he sent his.
There's a lot that I do know,but this one thing what I'm
challenging you in this podcastand throughout this series is
don't allow that one thing thatyou might not know or have an
answer that's satisfactory atthis moment.
(18:09):
Don't let that one thing youhave questions about derail your
faith.
Keep pursuing God.
He is big enough to handle yourdoubts.
Pastor Tim (18:21):
And I think that's more important.
That's just a.
As we were talking before westarted this podcast, I said
whatever you practice.
Whatever you practice when itcomes to doubt is going to be
(18:43):
how you engage your doubt.
And if you let your doubt onand it doesn't even have to be
about God, but if it's yourdoubt about one specific thing
over here that you let derailyou, then you're going to have
one specific thing in the nextbunch derail you, and then the
next doubt derail you, andwhatever you practice becomes
(19:03):
your um standard operatingprocedure when I mean when your
feed grows right and so, uh,we're going to talk now a little
bit about a productive doubt,what productive doubt looks like
, and, uh, and then we're goingto talk a little bit about how,
uh, psychological doubt canderail not just your faith but
(19:27):
your entire life.
When we were talking about thaton Sunday, I said honest doubt,
that you just have an honestdoubt about whether God is good,
that's a good, honest doubt.
He's allowed things to happen.
God is good, that's a good,honest doubt.
(19:47):
He's allowed things to happen.
That you would think, hey, Igot an issue with that, you know
it's got good.
Or he's made some claims aboutwhat you can and can't do and
you want to do some of thosethings.
I would call that that's not anhonest doubt, that's a I want
(20:09):
to doubt this so I can get outof my guilt and push all this
away and go do the thing I wantto do.
So we want to just lay that down.
Every time we talk about doubt,we're talking about honest
doubts, not doubt to use as aleverage to get me where I want
(20:29):
to be and do what I want to do.
But a lot of times the honestdoubt opens the door for Satan
to bring in doubts that willleverage us out.
So we've got to respond to ourhonest doubt in a way that will
be constructive, and the bestway to do that is to look at it
(20:54):
as a signal to deepen yourrelationship with God.
Pastor Ryan (20:58):
Yeah, I remember when Reed and Dar lost their son
and it might have been at theForge, the men's Bible study we
have here on Saturday mornings,where he was just confessing the
guys there and he said I wasreally struggling because I know
that God is good, scripturetells me that God is good, but
my son's also dead.
(21:19):
And he was wrestling with thatand he said all right, I believe
that God is good.
So if there's something in methat is telling me otherwise,
then the problem isn't with God,the problem's with me.
This is the honest, productivedoubt that he says.
I need to dive deeper intoGod's word, I need to know more
(21:41):
about him so that he can revealwho he truly is.
And coming out of that, he said, I have found that God is still
good.
Pastor Tim (21:51):
And it's man.
I wish we could eliminate allthose struggles.
But doubt doesn't mean you'refailing, it means you're
thinking and it's important tothink.
It means you're thinking andit's important to think.
Christianity is not the dumbman's religion, it is salvation.
(22:14):
On our part Seems too easy, toosimple, but when you study
soteriology you realize this isnot easy and it's very complex.
And God has been after thisredemption plan in the garden
(22:35):
with Adam and Eve.
He mentions it and he wasworking towards Jesus this whole
time.
So it's deep and complex onGod's side when you start
studying it.
And I think when we look atChristianity with platitudes,
with bumper sticker theology,you know, let go, let God, you
(22:57):
know God will work this out foryou, whatever the little saying
goes, when there's a lot oftruth in those little sayings.
But it's a whole lot morecomplex than that.
We're complex human beings andwe we're gonna doubt and some of
that doubt is good.
Is that guy gonna stop at hislight?
(23:18):
Should I go?
That doubt is good.
You know, um, is thatpolitician telling me the truth?
That doubt is good?
No, the answer is no, a hard no,and uh, we learned those things
, unfortunately, the hard way.
We grew up, um, believing inSanta Claus and you know, uh, he
(23:40):
ate the cookies.
Somebody ate the cookies anddrank the milk.
You know who could it be.
And as we grow older, we beginto doubt, and that doubt leads
us to what it leads us to truth.
So there is a productive doubtthat we talk about and that's
where we want to be.
It is an uncertainty or aquestion in your mind, in your
(24:06):
heart, and we're talking aboutGod.
So about God or aboutChristianity, that drives
inquiry.
It drives critical thinking andproblem solving, questioning
assumptions and seeking evidenceor even just exploring
(24:26):
possibilities to achieve clarityin your doubt.
And this is productive doubt.
It is something that motivatesyou to get off your butt and
cognitively engage, and that'swhat God wants.
And he's always saying hey,seek me with your whole heart
(24:49):
and you'll find me.
He's like let's engage.
Hey, let's wrestle this out orargue this out.
In Isaiah, one of my favoritescriptures, your sins may be
scarlet, but I can make themwhite as snow, and I want to
wrestle with you.
With that, he renamed JacobIsrael, which means those who
(25:12):
wrestle with God, and that'swhat he wants to do?
He wants to wrestle with thosedoubts.
But when we have doubts and weturn off or we push back or we
procrastinate, that's what wewould call a psychological doubt
that feeds itself and getsbigger and bigger and bigger.
(25:33):
So what we want you to do, whenyou run into a doubt about God,
you run into a doubt about ascripture or the Christian faith
, this is time for you to engage, engage your mind, your
critical thinking, and dive inand start saying, hey, does
anybody know about this?
And most of Christians?
(25:54):
When you have a doubt aboutChristianity, you're going to
run into some big, some bigquestions that we've all been
wrestling with for 2,000 years,since Jesus rose from the dead,
which?
Pastor Ryan (26:11):
can I say this should be encouraging.
There's almost no question thatyou can come up with that
another Christian.
We have an ancient faith andwe've talked about this on the
podcast a few times.
It's thousands of years old andpeople have been asking these
questions to and about God forthe past four or 5,000 years.
(26:32):
Job, here's a guy wrestlingwith some of these things,
saying God, what is going onhere?
We've been arguing this stufffor a long time and so the fact
that you have doubts, bring themto God.
He's not afraid of it and knowthis, you're not alone.
(26:53):
We've been talking about thisand here's the key People.
We've been arguing it forthousands of years and there's
still people who believe thatGod is good.
It hasn't derailed our faith.
It doesn't have to derail yourshasn't derailed our faith.
Pastor Tim (27:12):
It doesn't have to derail yours.
And I think we're in a sociallandscape coming out of the
Jesus revolution back in theseventies.
We're doubting, and this, justcoming from my own personal life
in Christ and growing up inchurch, is that doubt became the
enemy.
Just don't doubt.
Well, I want God to do this forme.
(27:33):
Just don't doubt, and he'll doit for you.
Where's that scripture?
You know?
Oh, you know here.
Let me pluck out some halfscriptures here, and and uh, and
make this assumption that youcan manipulate God if you can
eliminate your doubt and listen.
People, this is not howfollowing Jesus works.
(27:54):
He is the God of all creations,he makes all the decisions and
sometimes he steps out and doessomething especially for you,
because that's the kind of Godhe is.
Thomas said I need to touch thenail prints in his hands, I
need to put my hand in his side.
And Jesus showed up and saidhey, thomas, put your hand here.
(28:17):
And and that's the kind of,that's the kind of God he is.
Did he need to do that?
No, did he have to do that?
Absolutely not.
He could have looked Thomas inthe face and said Thomas, I'm
here, you get it and Thomaswould have said I got it.
He didn't need to touch Jesus.
(28:40):
He was there and talkingstraight to him.
And he could have said you know,your doubts embarrassed me,
thomas, after three years withyou.
You embarrassed me, and I thinkthat's how Christians feel
about doubt that I'membarrassing God, so they try to
hide it.
(29:00):
But what did Jesus do?
He didn't come in there andgrab him by the shoulder and
says I'm here, what are yougoing to do now?
He came in and said here,thomas, this is what you'm here.
What are you going to do now?
He came in and said here,thomas, this is what you said
you needed.
I'm going to give it to you.
You don't need this, but I'mgoing to give it to you anyways.
Pastor Ryan (29:16):
Well, and again going back to Matthew 28, that
you and I both used is someworship.
Some doubted.
Very next verse.
Jesus came near and said Rightand man, easter service.
I was trying to emphasize tothat moment where there are
(29:36):
people up there on the mountainwith God, the resurrected Christ
, saying I'm just not sure whatto do about all this.
He could have said are youserious After all of this?
Said, are you serious afterafter all of this?
Are you serious?
I'm gonna go find some newpeople?
Um, instead, he came near, hecommissioned them, gave them
(29:59):
purpose, gave them a mission offor their life.
Um, he drew near to him and man,I love that about him and he
doesn't shy away from those,those things, and it's one of
the things I mean you know,years ago when, uh, oh, man, I
think we were doing the mediaclub I think is what we called
(30:21):
it way back in the day where wewould read these books and and
we, we picked you picked somebooks that were pretty
challenging, um, to just some ofthe ideas that Christians hold,
um, but all that time Iremember you telling, telling us
doubts or questions lead tointimacy.
When we ask these questionsabout God, it leads us to
(30:44):
intimacy.
And that's, man, if we can useour doubts as that way, this
doorway to intimacy.
That, god.
I'm not sure about this and I'mnot looking for a way out, like
you were talking about earlier.
I'm not looking for leverage touse against you so I can get my
way in this area.
But, god, I want to know youmore and I'm not sure.
(31:04):
I'm not sure about this.
I'm not sure why you would dothis or why you would allow that
, but, god, I want to see itfrom your perspective.
I want to know what you thinkon this man.
Do we begin to unlock arelationship with God that most
people don't experience, becausethe temptation is to just tune
(31:26):
out and shut down, because thisis work.
Right, this is work, it's work.
And when I have doubts, thelast thing I want to do usually
is go to work.
I'm already tired, I'm alreadyworn out, I'm already busy.
Now you're saying I need tosearch these things out and
we're saying, yeah, search themout as you do.
(31:48):
Scripture says that the HolySpirit is going to reveal to you
the deep things of God.
This is when you want to go tothe next level in your
relationship with God.
Search those things out.
Ask the Holy Spirit to revealto you the deep things of God
man.
You get to know them in a waythat most Christians, most
(32:09):
people never will.
Pastor Tim (32:12):
We've practiced Christianity in the easy manner.
I used to call it church light.
You know, let's just make iteasy on everybody.
Let's try to get everythingdone on Sunday.
We'll go to Sunday school.
We'll do our.
Get everything done on SundayWe'll go to Sunday school.
We'll do our Bible studies.
In the evening We'll show up atchurch.
(32:33):
We'll get it all done and wedon't have to worry about it the
rest of the week.
But these doubts that we haveand we always say well, this
must be from Satan.
You think that from Satanyou've got a doubt that's going
to make you drill into God alittle bit more.
Do you think that they mightnot show up?
(32:55):
Or God might be pulling themout in you just to get you to
talk to them about it?
And that's because that's thekind of God he is.
We need to be careful, tryingto ascertain where that's coming
from.
But you're right, we're tootired to start.
What would you call it?
A high order cognitive processof analysis of?
Pastor Ryan (33:20):
finding out.
Pastor Tim (33:20):
I'm already out Right, but this analysis and
synthesis and evaluation ofdifferent things in the
scripture that speak to whatyou're doubting about and trying
to figure out what is going onhere and then not being sure
(33:41):
that you're ever going to knowprecisely.
But God wants you all wrappedup in that and your mind
thinking about it.
And that's why devotion in themorning before you start the day
, that's when I like to do itread the scripture in the
morning, or devotional with thescripture in it.
(34:03):
That keys your mind offthinking about God, because
somewhere in that day, as youthink back on your devotional,
you're going to say well, whydoes that lead to that?
Does that make sense?
I don't know if that makes sense.
And then suddenly you've gotyour own personal cognitive
(34:26):
analysis to do, about yourself,about God, about life in general
.
God loves thinking Christians,not robots.
Pastor Ryan (34:37):
I was just going to say.
He wants to teach you how tothink about things and this is
another verse we use all thetime here.
But he says take every thoughtcaptive and make it obedient to
Christ.
You know like, take thosedoubts, those questions that you
have, and make it obedient toChrist.
How do I do that?
Well, you need some of thiscognitive analysis.
(34:57):
I need to search out thescriptures, I need to pray and
ask the Holy Spirit to give mewisdom and discernment about
these things.
And that's the hard work.
Right, and I know we're tired.
I know the last thing you wantto do is dive in.
But, man, when you take thisstep and God's word begins to
(35:18):
come alive, man, it is water fora thirsty soul man.
Pastor Tim (35:23):
Yeah, you got it.
You got it.
You got to let your doubtmotivate you.
It's got to be a motivationaldrive that doesn't drive you
away from something because youjust don't want to think about
it deeply, you just want toignore it.
It's got to intrigue yourcuriosity.
(35:50):
Wait, I've been a Christian for30 years.
How come I don't know this?
Do other Christians know this?
What's the answer to this?
And now we have the ability toresearch so much more.
But the first place to start isan old cross-reference Bible
(36:10):
and right down the middle, um,you read a word that uh, or a
scripture that you're doubtingabout, or you have a doubt, and
you, you find this scripture andyou're like, well, what does
this mean?
You suddenly just look in themiddle of your Bible.
You can see all these otherscriptures where this thing has
been talked about and this wordhas been used.
(36:33):
And that's a great place tostart.
But we've got with the internet.
Now we can really dive in andfind really research things.
So here's a question a lot ofpeople have about the end of
Mark, last chapter of Mark, 9through 20, I think those are
(36:53):
the verses showed up around thefifth century.
Okay, and everybody knows thatit's not a secret.
Okay, if you talk to anybiblical scholar, either secular
or religious, they'll say yeah,that wasn't there and there's a
lot of questions about why it'sthere now.
(37:15):
But we know that we got nineguys, early church fathers
before the fifth century, whoquote those verses that weren't
there until the fifth century.
And then we've got manuscriptsthat left a gap for those verses
(37:40):
in their manuscripts becausethey just at the end of Mark,
they just they go on to Luke toluke you know, and.
But they left a gap for them,like they were trying to decide
whether something was going togo there or not.
And when they got the go aheadto put it in, they were going to
put it in or not.
And, um, I have, I've studiedthe scripture and I've taught,
(38:04):
and I always bring up, you know,the ending of Mark is not in
there till the fifth century,but I had no idea that there was
nine guys who quoted Mark.
Uh, those verses, nine through20, um, before the fifth century
.
And now I'm, I'm, you know,it's opened my mind and it is
raised curiosity.
(38:25):
And how come?
I didn't know that and I wouldhave never known it.
Looking at a commentary, justone of my dad's big book
commentaries.
I got them lined up in myoffice downstairs.
I would have never known thatlooking at that.
But the research out there thatyou can find on the internet is
just amazing.
(38:46):
And those type of things shouldfuel your intrinsic curiosity
and produce a motivation toresolve that doubt, that
uncertainty that you have.
But taking what we said in thebeginning, that you might not,
(39:10):
and um, but taking what we saidin the beginning, uh, that you
might not resolve it completely.
But, man, that I want to knowabout this is what is what God
is feeding you?
Pastor Ryan (39:18):
Yeah, and you're going to say I don't know if I
have the time for this, um, buthere's what I I what else I know
.
Um, when you had to buy a newlawnmower, you did some research
.
Pastor Tim (39:30):
Yeah.
Pastor Ryan (39:30):
When you were looking at a new pair of, you
know, in-ear headphones AirPodsversus Bose you did some
research.
Yeah.
Pastor Tim (39:38):
You wanted the AirPods that each one can work
independently of the other,depending on where you're
sitting you definitely want tobe able to use the left ear pod
without the right right.
Pastor Ryan (39:51):
That that's key folks.
If you're married, you'remarried.
You need to be able to do thatnow.
Pastor Tim (39:57):
You can take what are they talking about and do
some real research and figureout what are these two married
guys talking about.
Pastor Ryan (40:06):
So um, I I'm saying you've done this kind of
research before, right, you canapply that same curiosity, that
same desire for information andI want to know if I'm going to
spend my money on something, Iwant it to be the best thing I
can get.
Take that same level ofresearch and say, man, god, I
(40:26):
have this question and I want toknow what you think about it
and dive into it, get lost onthe internet for a little bit,
or in your Bible or in somecommentaries for a while, and
search it out and let God revealto you his heart on that thing.
And you're going to come outthe other side feeling like man,
I'm standing on something.
(40:47):
Come out the other side feelinglike man, I'm standing on
something solid.
Right, that doubt, thatquestion, isn't just constantly
nagging away at you, eating awayat you, because that's the
problem.
Pastor Tim (40:59):
If you don't ever address it, it's always there,
right.
And when you do address it,when you do address it, even
when you come out on the otherend and you think, well, I kind
of get it, but you don't alwaysget it, it builds a resilience,
of absolute strength in you thatsays I can deal with doubt, you
know, I, I can deal with it Idon't.
Pastor Ryan (41:19):
It doesn't control me.
Pastor Tim (41:20):
Too many christians don't exercise exactly exactly,
that's a great way to put it.
And, uh, I think you know we'vegot scientists who do this.
Every day they go in.
I doubt that that's exactlywhat's happening when we split
this atom.
I have no idea how they'd comeup with that question, but
they're trying to figure it out.
(41:41):
And we kind of got my job.
I got through school.
Now I'm just going to run onthe treadmill and I'm I'm not
gonna I'm gonna procrastinateabout thinking about things that
I should probably think about.
Uh, that goes with our finances, our uh life insurance.
(42:03):
And you know, I don't know howmany times people said I need to
go over my insurance and see ifI'm paying too much for my
insurance.
I say that too.
How many times have I done it?
None.
There's places on the internetsays we'll do it for you and and
we're like nah, because then atthe no cost, no obligation,
quote yeah and then at the atthe end you say, say I don't
(42:26):
want to make a decision aboutthat, I don't want to have to
call the insurance agent, makethem switch over and all that
kind of stuff.
It's just I don't want to dothat, I don't want to engage.
And those things, when we learnto engage with them, can only
help us.
Let's take that doubt, let'srun it down, and then all know
(42:52):
how big that doubt is and howmuch it affects me, whether it's
your insurance or it's yoursoteriology, you know yeah.
Pastor Ryan (43:00):
And so here's here's a little bit of the
differences, then, betweenproductive doubt and this kind
of psychological doubt that weget stuck in the productive
doubt.
That's what we're aiming for,that's what we're saying, this
honest doubt that leads us tointimacy.
Psychological doubt is thatdoubt where we get all stuck in
our head.
It impairs our decision-making.
(43:21):
This is what probablycontributes to things like
anxiety and depression, whereI'm constantly stuck in this
loop.
How do I know the difference?
I have doubt.
How do I know which one ofthese it is?
I think here's some of the keydifferences to let you know
whether you're pursuing healthyor unhealthy doubt.
(43:42):
First off, productive doubt isconstructive and rational.
It's building you up intosomething right.
It's thinking, it's activatingthat muscle in your brain.
Psychological doubt isdestructive and it's often
irrational, right.
Pastor Tim (44:00):
Filled with generalizations and
catastrophizing.
And did I say that right?
I think so, yeah, whereeverything's going to go bad.
Or if you're thinking about God.
Well, he never answers myprayer.
He never steps in for me.
You know, you start thosegeneralizations or the what-if
(44:22):
questions.
Pastor Ryan (44:23):
What if this?
What if this?
What if this?
A Fresh Wind (44:26):
I mean, that is bottomless, right you can take
that to the bottom.
Pastor Ryan (44:28):
What if, what if, what if, what if, what if?
Yeah, irrational, productivedoubt drives inquiry and growth.
You talked about thatPsychological doubt undermines
confidence and clarity.
So when you're saying God, Ijust man, I don't know.
And is this true or are yougood?
You're moving into thatpsychological doubt where you're
(44:50):
no longer pursuing the truthabout God but you're finding
things or entertaining thingsthat are undermining your
confidence.
Pastor Tim (44:58):
Yeah, it becomes a big mush that your original
doubt that got you here.
You can't even name it anymorebecause it's wrapped up in
everything else.
And that's where Satan steps inwhen you're doubting about a
thing he wants you to be.
(45:19):
You're never going to find thisanswer.
Um, this is something that'sunknowable about God and you
just need to suck it up.
You sissy, you know that typeof and that's just not your
pastor teaching you.
Sometimes that's Satan tryingto say you know these things
about God.
You are never going tounderstand, and you just?
(45:41):
Why don't you just relax andquit worrying about it?
And he derails us from inquiry.
Pastor Ryan (45:49):
Yep, here's the emotional tone.
I guess that would help.
You know, productive doubtsparks curiosity, inquiry we
talked about.
There's this uncertainty, kindof like the disciples on the
mountain.
I'm not sure what to do withthis Psychological doubt.
(46:10):
On the other hand, is feelingsof anxiety, fear, distress,
depression.
Those are things that arefueled by that psychological
doubt, that endless loop.
Pastor Tim (46:23):
I think one thing we need to understand about this
that both of these sidesproductive doubt and
psychological doubt um, theyfeed each other.
Just like you said earlier,it's what you feed is what
you're going to have more of.
And psychological doubt can justrun you into.
(46:44):
I don't want my husband toleave for work because I just am
not sure about him and there'sgot to be a time where you've
got to put faith in somethingand it can derail you.
But those words you use anxiety, you know.
Fear that's when it's gettingout of control.
(47:08):
You should be wondering oruncertain, but when it turns
into fear and anxiety,something's wrong.
You need to look at that again.
Yep, for sure.
Pastor Ryan (47:21):
So here's the difference in outcomes.
Then, productive doubt leads toinnovation, to learning,
resilience we talked about.
Psychological doubt leads tothat avoidance, that indecision,
that mental strain where it'sjust I'm checking out, I can't
even deal with it.
So two different outcomes thatwe're going to see there Control
(47:42):
, productive outcome or doubtleads to deliberate.
A deliberateness ofself-regulated or psychological
doubt is involuntary, it'soverwhelming.
Pastor Tim (47:53):
I just feel under the weight of this.
Yeah, yeah, that's, that'sgreat.
Yeah, it's just.
I feel that where it just Ilike that word you said it's
involuntary, it just overwhelmsme.
But on the other side it'sself-regulated.
(48:16):
Oh, I got a half an hour.
I'm going gonna look this up.
Oh, my gosh, that's huge.
I'm gonna have to come back tothis tonight, you know it, it,
it's self-regulated, it'sdeliberate yeah it's like I
gotta figure this out and you're.
But you know, when you're inthat mood and that doubt hits
(48:39):
you, you just get swamped.
It's like walking out into theocean and you know you don't see
that wave and it's just likewham.
Yeah, that's a big differencein how you live your life.
Pastor Ryan (48:51):
Yeah, where you pick it up, you look at it and
then you put it down, right, andI go back to life and I enjoy
the goodness of God.
And then I'm going to come backand I'm going to pick that
thing up, I'm going to look atit from a new angle and then I'm
going to set it back down andI'm going to chew on that for a
little bit.
It's not that overwhelmingconsuming.
I can't even function right now.
(49:13):
Like your snowblower Correcthow Like your snowblower.
Pastor Tim (49:15):
Correct.
How long have you had it?
Pastor Ryan (49:16):
Two years, at least two years, still can't get it
running.
Pastor Tim (49:20):
Every now and then he goes out there and
deliberately tries to fix it.
Pastor Ryan (49:24):
I'd stare at.
It is what I do, man.
I wish you worked.
But these are some of the waysthat you can begin to know.
Which doubt are you feeding,which doubt are you entertaining
?
That productive, honest doubtthat leads you to intimacy, or
that unhealthy psychologicaldoubt that's this endless loop
that just feeds and breedsanxiety and uncertainty and fear
(49:46):
?
Um, it's, you're going to growone of them.
Uh, cause doubts are going tocome.
Even the the best of us havedoubts.
Um man, who was the famousevangelist, was it?
John Wesley?
Said at the end of it he's likeI just hope that.
Pastor Tim (50:05):
That was Jonathan Edwards.
Pastor Ryan (50:06):
Edwards.
People were getting thousandsof people getting saved
listening to that guy preach andat the end he goes man, I just
hope, like, what are you talkingabout, man?
If you aren't in, what hope isthere for any of us?
That's not where we want you tobe.
(50:27):
John said I have written thesethings so that you may know, you
have eternal life and Christian.
if you search out these thingswith this productive doubt that
you lead it to dive you deeperinto God's Word, you can grow a
vibrant relationship with Christwhere you know Him as well as
(50:47):
any forgiven sinner can.
Pastor Tim (50:49):
And if you have got into that spiraling,
overwhelming doubt, let me getyou started.
Pastor Ryan (51:03):
Specify your specificity did I say that one
right Again.
I think you got it right.
I don't normally get thoseright, it's good coffee today.
Pastor Tim (51:23):
When you yeah, when you get drilled in on one thing,
you can get an answer.
But if you let that one thingengage all these other things
and it seems so overwhelming, um, just specify uh lord, are you
good?
Uh lord, how do I know I'msaved?
Uh lord, how do I know somebodyelse is saved?
Lord, you know?
(51:44):
Whatever that question is thatyou're struggling with?
Um, just say, okay, let's focuson this one and we'll dive in
and we'll let all these otherthings you know cook over here.
But I'm going to take one out,I'm going to beat it to death,
I'm going to be motivated, I'mgoing to engage my critical
(52:06):
thinking, I'm going to thinkabout this.
I'm going to ask God to teachme.
I'm going to be quiet beforehim so he can talk to me.
I'm going to do everything Ican to let the Lord lay this out
for me.
And then, once you get thereand you've done that, okay, let
(52:26):
me reach over here in this massof whatever and pull one more
thing out.
Pastor Ryan (52:33):
You know, it's the difference the way Jesus said it
between someone who buildstheir house on the sand and
someone who builds their houseon the rock.
And a lot of us, our Christianlife, is built like a house of
cards man.
And so you take one and thewhole thing comes crashing down.
You go to college and you getone professor who starts to poke
some holes in some stuff andnow your whole house of cards
(52:55):
has fallen down.
And this isn't a perfectillustration, because I know
Jenga blocks eventually falldown too, right.
But if you can treat it morelike, that Jenga block where you
can poke one of those thingsout in the structure still
stands and I can look at it andI can turn it over and I can
examine it and then, when Godteaches me what that is, I shove
(53:15):
it back in and it's strong.
You know, I've I'm, I'm nottossed by the every wave in the
sea.
I stand secure and then grabsomething else out and I can
look at that one and I put itback.
But that house of cards, assoon as one of them comes out,
the whole thing comes crashingdown.
And I my fear is too many, toomany Christians thing comes
(53:41):
crashing down.
My fear is too many Christians,our faith, is like that house
of cards and one thing will leadit to crash down.
Don't let one doubt, oneuncertainty about God derail
everything, and we've said thisfrom the very beginning there's
going to be things that youdon't know, and you're going to
bring it to God, and and you'renot going to come away with an
(54:01):
answer that that you feel issatisfactory.
Um, we said earlier the justshall live by faith.
But you said on Sunday well,the Bible says so doesn't always
help, right.
And so what are some thingsthat we can do when we don't
know, when the answer's not whatwe hoped or that it feels sure
(54:26):
enough, I think.
Number one it's important toacknowledge your doubts.
Tim said be specific about it.
That's a great place to start.
Write that thing down and don'tjust wonder about it anymore.
Acknowledge those things andbring it to God, knowing that in
(54:47):
those doubts he comes near tous, he draws closer to us.
The second thing I think we cando is talk it out, man.
Go to your life group and askyour life group leader, or sit
down with a Christian mentor orfriend that you trust and talk
about it.
Ladies, go to the ladies' Biblestudy on Tuesday mornings.
(55:08):
Men show up at the forge and,after it's all over, say hey, by
the way, I've been thinkingabout this.
That usually happens in thebeginning.
Pastor Tim (55:17):
It derails everything, but it's still great
Right and because you broughtthat out, leads us to the next
one Seek understanding, notcertainty.
So when those things happen upat the forge and they say, what
about the security of thebeliever?
(55:37):
And we'll talk about, uh,several different studies of
soteriology, studies ofsalvation, we won't talk about
just the one.
I think is true, you know we'llwell, some Christians believe
this and some Christians believethat this is how they structure
(55:59):
this.
And I get understanding withoutcertainty and that's something
that Christianity needs toChristians, not Christianity
Christians need to say I'm goingto try to understand it as much
as I can, because sometimes Iwon't walk away with certainty.
(56:23):
There's some things that if yougo to like a seminary and you
talk to their professors andtheir theologians and that you
were just certain aboutsomething, they'll all just roll
their eyes at you.
And that you were just certainabout something, they'll all
(56:45):
just roll their eyes at you andwe understand it, but certainty
you haven't studied enough.
Pastor Ryan (56:48):
Yeah, certainty is a hard thing in any topic to
truly nail down.
So the goal isn't to eliminateevery question, right, but we're
trying to build a strongerfoundation, something that, when
the winds come, I can be secureon.
Next thing and I think this isso important you need to, even
when there's doubt, stick toyour spiritual habits.
Pastor Tim (57:08):
Listen, this is so important because there's a lot
of the questions that you haveabout the faith that the Lord
will teach you and you willnever even realize you had a
question because you stuck toyour spiritual habits.
You've read through it, you'vestudied it, the Holy Spirit has
taught it to you, but whenyou're out there alone, you're
never engaging with the Lord,you're never learning anything.
(57:31):
And suddenly oh.
I got this huge question what amI going to do?
And the Lord says if you wouldhave just kept reading that
chapter, I would have showed you.
Pastor Ryan (57:42):
How many times have we stopped short, man?
So stick to those habits.
Keep praying, keep readingRight, absolutely, even when
it's tough, even when you'retired, even when you're
uncertain.
It doesn't need to be profoundevery time, it doesn't need to
be perfect every time.
Stick with it.
Next, focus on gratitude, man.
Thank God for the good he hasdone in your life, thank him for
(58:05):
the faithfulness that he hasshown in your life, and I think
when we practice gratitude inthat way, it counterbalances the
negativity or the uncertaintythat we have.
And finally, and I want toencourage you, be patient with
yourself.
We look at some of our you knowthese spiritual giants that we
(58:27):
have.
Or we look at some Christianmentors or pastors, and they
look so strong and so steady intheir faith.
I want you to know, as one ofyour pastors, that has only come
through the doubts, not inspite of them.
(58:49):
You develop a strong faith whenyou've gone through some stuff
and you've leaned back intoGod's faithfulness, and so be
patient with yourself.
This kind of relationship withGod takes time.
It's why we call it arelationship.
It's a journey, and it takeswork.
A Fresh Wind (59:07):
Yep.
Pastor Tim (59:11):
And God likes to wrestle.
He's like that grandpa thatcomes in.
The first thing he does is hegets down on the ground.
Let's wrestle, you know, andand this is this is what he
wants he created a phenomenalmind in you and I don't care how
smart you think you are, youare not where god wants you to
(59:31):
be.
He wants you to wrestle withthings, and because when we
wrestle with them and we win,it's a victory in your life.
God loves to engage your mind.
He's not looking for blindfaith.
He wants faith built on afoundation with a cornerstone
Jesus Christ and he wants yourfaith to be strong.
(59:55):
Even though there might be somegaps in there, he still wants
it to be strong, and he'slooking to get you on the floor
and wrestle you up.
And so if you're one of thoseguys, grandpa, please don't
touch.
No, don't, I don't.
I don't feel safe doing this.
You know I'm sorry, but that'swho God is.
(01:00:15):
He wants to grab a hold of youand get you in the word and in
prayer and say let's wrestlethis out, let's do it, let's go.
Pastor Ryan (01:00:25):
And you might walk with a limp for the rest of your
life.
Yes it could happen, but it's asign that your faith is living,
that it's breathing, that it'salive.
These things don't have to be adead end.
They can be a doorway togreater intimacy with Christ,
and so I think we might havejust hit the record for longest
podcast we've done.
Pastor Tim (01:00:46):
It was a good one.
You were on the ball today, man.
I was writing stuff down.
Pastor Ryan (01:00:52):
Here's what.
I think.
It's probably the longest,because this is so important,
it's so real and it's where somany of us are, and so hopefully
this has been encouraging foryou.
We've got a couple more weeksto continue talking about this
topic, and so I'm excited forwhat God's going to do.
But, pastor Tim, will you prayfor us?
Pastor Tim (01:01:10):
I will, Father.
I want to lift up our churchand anybody who hears this
podcast today that we'll justlet our doubts draw us near to
you.
You promise in James that if wedraw near to you, you'll draw
near to us and instead ofletting doubts make us lean away
(01:01:33):
, that they'll make us leantowards you for a good wrestling
match that you're looking tohave with us.
Father, we want to pursue youwith our whole heart.
So let our doubts motivate usto answer questions, motivate us
to research, analyze, digdeeper, instead of wearing us
(01:02:02):
out.
Another doubt.
I'm just wear it out.
I'm wore out thinking aboutthis.
I don't want to think about itanymore.
Lord, I pray that your HolySpirit will rise up in your
people and draw them into aquestioning search for
understanding in their doubts.
Father, this is what we'relooking for through this series.
(01:02:24):
Father, I pray that you'llteach us that.
In Jesus' name, Amen, Amen.
A Fresh Wind (01:02:29):
Thanks again for joining us for this episode of
the Midweek Podcast.
We'd love to hear from you.
Let us know how God is usingthis resource in your life, or
send any podcast questions ortopic ideas to podcast at
afreshwindorg.
If you would like to supportthis ministry financially and
help us continue offering newresources that equip you to
discover more in Christ, simplytext any amount to the number
(01:02:52):
84321.
We're so grateful for yoursupport.
Make sure to tune in next weekfor a brand new episode of the
Midweek Podcast.
Be blessed and have a greatweek.
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