March 26, 2025 • 46 mins
Have you ever experienced the spiritual whiplash of going from complete confidence in God to utter despair? Elijah's journey from calling fire down from heaven to hiding in a cave presents one of scripture's most honest portraits of the human spiritual experience.
Pastors Ryan and Tim dive deep into this fascinating story from 1 Kings, exploring how even the most spectacular demonstrations of God's power don't necessarily prevent us from experiencing doubt, fear, and depression. Through Elijah's dramatic journey from mountaintop victory to cave-dwelling despair, they reveal how God speaks in both spectacular moments and gentle whispers. Tune-in as we unpack the psychological complexity of Elijah's experience while drawing parallels to our own spiritual rollercoasters.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome (00:09):
Welcome and thanks for joining us on this episode of
the Midweek Podcast brought toyou by A Fresh Wind Church.
Each week, our team brings younew content to help you take
steps towards Jesus and discovermore in Christ.
Today's episode is hosted byPastor Ryan.
Pastor Ryan (00:27):
Well, hey, welcome back to the Midweek Podcast.
Pastor Ryan joined again withPastor Tim and we are in week
three of our series Come to theMountain, looking at these
different mountain topexperiences where people
encounter God on the mountain,and looking just at God's
character, how he revealshimself to us, because we want
(00:48):
to know and see God for who hereally is.
And on Sunday Pastor Tim talkedabout the story of Elijah and I
don't know about you, Tim, thisis one of my favorite stories
in scripture.
I love it because it seems likeit just covers so much of the
human experience from thesegreat heights to, like, really
(01:10):
low valleys.
Pastor Tim (01:11):
There's so much.
When I was growing up let mestop that sentence and and give
you a little background here.
When I was growing up, um, Icouldn't watch a lot of the
things on TV, hee-haw, becausethe shorts were too short and so
forth and so on.
But I loved space stuff.
So my dad, who was the one whodecided whether I can watch TV
(01:36):
or not, would watch Star Trekwith me.
Pastor Ryan (01:39):
So he's to blame for this whole Star Trek thing.
He's to blame, he let me do itthis whole.
Pastor Tim (01:48):
So he's he's to blame, he let me, he let me do
it.
And one thing about, uh,captain kirk in the original is
he.
He quoted shakespeare all thetime and, um, it made me want to
go figure out where that camefrom.
And um, shakespeare had a Idon't know some kind of view
(02:09):
into the complexity of the humancondition.
And this story, I mean it isreally when you look at the
psychological complexity that'sgoing on and I know a lot of
(02:29):
people who don't believe in thescripture would roll their eyes
well, all that's a myth.
None of that happened.
But if you just look at howElijah reacts to every part, the
victory, then when his life isthreatened, how he reacts, and
(02:51):
then his depression and then hishiding, I mean you just see
this whole menagerie of humanemotion that comes out in this
situation.
And what we see here is what wesee in people who get sent
(03:12):
overseas in the military ordeployed to war zones and crazy
things happen and it don'thappen like you think it's going
to happen and all these things,and it causes PTSD.
And I see that here.
I see him struggling with theresults of his win and that is,
(03:32):
if that's not insight into thehuman condition, I don't know
what is.
Pastor Ryan (03:37):
Yeah.
Pastor Tim (03:37):
It's a.
Pastor Ryan (03:38):
It's an interesting case study to to watch Elijah
go up on that Cause.
He's full of confidence in God,that God is who he says he is.
I mean, there's no doubt.
He builds this altar and he'slike I'm going to dig a trench
around it, we're going to pourwater on it, we're going to I
mean, when God shows up, he'sgoing to show up and then he's
(03:58):
mocking the other guys Maybeyour God's in the bathroom,
maybe he took a nap, maybe he'son vacation, you know like just
going to town on him and then hegoes from that to this man
hiding in the cave and you'relike how could the same guy and
this is what I love about astory in the how it relates to
(04:20):
the human experience, becauseit's like how can the same guy
be on the mountain, be the sameguy that's hiding in the cave?
But then you look at your ownlife and you're like, well, man,
there's definitely been timeswhen I feel like I'm on the
mountain, where, you know, Ifeel like I could conquer the
world, and then there's there'stimes when I feel like man, I
can't win at anything.
It's what I love about hisstory is it's just, it's so.
(04:46):
I don't know if I've ever beena part of something quite that
drastic, but the emotional highsand lows I've experienced for
sure.
Pastor Tim (04:51):
The first thing that happens, though, is he prays
that there'll be no rain.
Now God tells him to do this,and he prays, and then there is
no rain.
So that is, that is a big faithbuilding situation, right there
, right, and then he runs offand he finds this widow that
he's um living with, and shedon't.
She's like I can't take care ofyou, I don't have anything.
(05:13):
And then, um, they get the uh,the oil that never ceases, the
magic uh, pot, and um, thesethings are happening right
before his eyes.
Now, I don't know if this kindof stuff happened with him all
the time, but these differentsituations that he finds himself
(05:37):
in, god is showing up, so hisexcitement and confidence in
what God's going to do is it'sbeen great up to this point.
Then her son dies, and Godraises him back from the dead,
because Elijah prayed, and he'sall sauced up at this point, you
(05:58):
know and he comes walking backI think it's Jezreel, where Ahab
wasab was ruling from, and he'slike I'm going to see ahab,
let's go, you know.
And he goes, it's time to talk.
And he gets, he finds obadiah,and obadiah is like man, I don't
know, this is probably notgoing to go very well.
(06:19):
And and elijah's like what areyou talking about, man?
I got, I got this, let's go Me,and God, we're going to take
care of this.
And he gets in Ahab's face,climbs up on Mount Carmel, which
is Baal's mountain, and theyhave this big face-off and he
(06:40):
makes it so everybodyunderstands who's the God, you
know Right right.
And so this victory is amazing.
And then he prays and then astorm's coming.
He sees the storm coming fromafar off and tells Ahab you
better get going.
So Ahab takes off in hischariot to get back home before
(07:07):
the sloppy mess comes.
And then he runs in front ofhis chariot for 20 miles.
So it's just like icing on thecake to Ahab and it's like, okay
, there is this feeling inElijah it's my own personal view
(07:29):
on this that God is going tochange Ahab's heart and he's
going to change Jezebel's heartand they're going to give their
heart to Yahweh and then thewhole country is going to tear
down the idols and they're goingto start worshiping Yahweh.
Look what's happened, you know,raise this guy from the dead,
(07:54):
stop the rain.
The rain's coming, fire fromheaven.
The whole thing, the world'sgoing to change.
We have saved the country.
They are all going to come backto the Lord and we're going to
worship again and spirit andtruth, and God is going to be
our God and we're going to behis people.
And this is what Elijah wanted.
(08:15):
He loved his people and this isthe goal, this is what I want.
And all these great thingshappen and they get.
Get back there and instead ofJezebel saying oh my gosh,
that's fantastic, so your God isking, we need to worship him,
instead she says I'm going tokill him.
And he didn't get what hewanted.
(08:38):
Now God got what he wanted, youknow, and sometimes we don't
know exactly what God wants.
You know, and sometimes wedon't know exactly what god
wants.
But elijah said this is is thiswhat I did?
All this for for me to be thelast one who believes?
And often he takes off and,yeah, hides in.
Pastor Ryan (09:00):
You know, as someone in ministry, you kind of
feel it.
I guess you can relate to it.
I don't know, I don't want tospeak for you, but I feel some
of that.
You know where you can havethese just amazing moments in
ministry see God do some amazingthings, and then you can leave
(09:22):
feeling defeated or drained,especially if it didn't turn out
the way that you wanted or thatyou had hoped.
Yeah, all these people showedup, but it didn't go the way
that I had anticipated.
You're writing this sermon,getting everything planned, and
(09:42):
you just feel, man, god is allover this thing, and then you
preach it, it and no one lookslike they're getting it.
You're like what is happeninghere?
Pastor Tim (09:48):
And there's two guys snoring in tandem in the back.
Pastor Ryan (09:51):
It's like, how could I have felt so in tune
with God during the week writingthis message?
And I get here and it justdoesn't translate, nobody's
getting it, and so I feel someof that.
I'm not saying to the sameextent I've never called fire
from heaven, um, but I, man,I've had those moments when you
(10:14):
feel like me and god can doanything, and then just that
defeat, or that I'm drained, I'mexhausted, I've got nothing
left, um, and he comes here andyeah, jezebel's like I'm going
to kill this guy, and he takesoff.
I mean the same guy like, dude,just do the fire thing again.
(10:37):
That worked last time, do thatagain.
And instead he just takes offand hides.
And that that human experienceI think so many people can
relate to it.
Of God.
I just I don't know if I gotanything left.
Pastor Tim (10:52):
Well, that's that point where you're learning to
depend on God.
It wasn't his fire thing.
It's one thing I preach.
You hear me say it all the timeyou don't wield God, he wields
you yeah.
And so when you're like, okay,the time you don't wield god, he
wields you yeah and um.
So when, when you're like, okay, god, you just did this fire
(11:13):
thing, do it again, no, what?
Well, wait a minute, what's the?
This is the same circumstance,I know, but I'm not going to do
this again.
And it shocks you.
It shocked Elijah, I know hewas thinking everybody's going
to come back to God and we dothat too.
(11:33):
Every book you read aboutstarting a church or building a
church, and it's got one bigword in there momentum, momentum
.
Oh, if you've got the momentum,you've got to capitalize on the
momentum.
If you're getting a littlemomentum, you've oh, if you got
the momentum, you got tocapitalize on the momentum.
If you get in a little momentum, you got to feed into that
momentum.
And it's like how is that?
How do I spiritually, how do Iwrap that in biblical, um,
(11:58):
inspired spirituality, momentum,because I've got a God who
stops me and prepares me for thenext level.
You know I can't momentum myway through or I'll leave him
somewhere behind, and so it's.
It's very difficult for pastors, especially when they have
(12:22):
momentum and then it doesn't goanywhere or it rolls off for a
few years, you know.
And so it's.
It's tough, especially whenevery book is like oh, you
missed your momentum, that'swhat happened, and I just want
to look up the authors andstrangle them.
Pastor Ryan (12:42):
Figuratively speaking, of course.
Yes, yes, I have to let me.
Let me say that was a joke,strangle them Figuratively
speaking, of course.
Pastor Tim (12:47):
Yes, I have to.
Let me say that was a joke.
I was just.
I wasn't even speaking infrustration.
I was trying to be funny.
Okay, I know the world we livein now.
Pastor Ryan (12:57):
I know Everybody's so literal.
Yeah, it's we we want and Ithink, elijah here.
So he, he takes off and he runsand he's wanting God to do
something right, god, you, yougotta protect me, you gotta do
something here.
Well, how did I end up in thispoint?
How, why would you do thisgreat thing?
(13:18):
And now I'm I'm the only oneleft.
I'm running for my life.
What has happened?
And we look at our life.
I think a lot like that.
God, how did I end up in thisplace?
Why would you allow this tohappen to me?
And it's real easy for us tostart questioning God's goodness
and questioning God's motivesand his intentions, to say, man,
(13:42):
is God truly good?
Because if he was good, whydoes my life look like this?
You know, and we're talkingabout Elijah, who calls fire
down from heaven.
I mean, that's a level ofintimacy with God.
Pastor Tim (13:58):
That's pretty special.
Before we rain on his paradetoo much, he's got great
spiritual instincts.
Okay, he, yeah, this happened,and it didn't result in the
people coming back to God, buthis, his instinct is not to say,
all right, I'm done with this.
You know, I do everything yousay, and then it never turns out
(14:20):
the way you know, I think itshould be.
I'm sure that's not what he'sthinking, but the way it should
be, the way you should want itto turn out, god, why don't you
just let it happen?
His instinct, though, is to goto the mountain.
His instinct isn't to walk awayand say I'm done with this or
I'm out of ministry, I'm notgoing to do this anymore.
(14:42):
He knew God enough that that'swhere he was going to go.
He was going to go back to God,even when he was disappointed
with God's decision.
Yeah.
Pastor Ryan (14:54):
And that's a good point, and I guess where I was
going is a lot of us faced withthat's a similar situation.
Right, we come to that fork inthe road.
Do I trust God's goodness here,because that's the human nature
is I'll begin to question God.
How could he allow me to end upin this place?
(15:16):
Um, or we lean into it.
And you know, I think on Sundayyou talked about promise versus
the process, you know, and Ithink it was oh gosh, this is
back at the old building, soquite a few years ago, um, but
we did this Easter series calledlife in the gap, and it was
(15:39):
that same sort of flair, youknow.
So, as soon as you starttalking promise and process, I'm
like, man, this is, yes, thisis what I want to preach about
all the time, but this, you know, finding God in the gap, that
he's in the process, and we seeElijah leaning into that.
You know, it's easy for us togo the other way and say, god,
(16:03):
this isn't what I signed up for.
Um, and I, man, I, just I, I'vetalked to so many people and
that's where they're at.
God, this isn't what I signedup for.
If you're good, why am I inthis place.
If you're good, why is thishappening to me?
Um?
how do you think then, I mean we, we.
(16:23):
If you read this um the passage, or if you were here for the
sermon, um, you kind of knowwhat happens with Elijah.
But what do you think we dowhen we get to those moments
where we need God to show up?
Um do when we get to thosemoments where we need God to
show up Because we're lost,we're in the valley?
(16:44):
How do we recalibrate ourselves, do you think?
Pastor Tim (16:48):
First of all, we need to be honest, like Elijah
was, and we need to tell God howwe feel and how disappointed we
are in him.
I mean, he goes to the mountain.
That's good spiritual instincts.
He doesn't go up there to get anew assignment.
He goes up there to say, god,just take me home.
I'm tired of this.
They're never going to dowhat's right.
(17:09):
I'm the only one left.
I'm the only one that cares,kind of like I was when I was
under that stage.
That was a tough day.
Pastor Ryan (17:19):
I remember that phone call.
I honor you, I praise you.
Thank you, tim.
Pastor Tim (17:27):
And even if it's a lie, I'll take it.
Pastor Ryan (17:29):
I'll give him.
Pastor Tim (17:34):
He was up there and he was just letting God know.
And the first time God he askedhim this question twice.
What are you doing here, elijah?
First time Elijah doesn't hearhim because he's already loaded,
he's locked and loaded and he'swaiting for God to say
something so he can just let himhave it.
And I see him when God says itto him again and he repeats what
(18:00):
he says the first time.
When I was studying it last week, it felt like to me that his
second time he said it was aquestion.
You know, one thing I learnedon the debate team and our
debate team was one debate inhigh school but one thing I
(18:24):
learned from a guy was that whenyou're attacked, make them
repeat it, especially if it's adhominem, if they're just trying
to get to you or insult you,usually you can take a breath
and just say can you repeat that?
And when people do repeat whatthey just said off the cuff,
(18:46):
which was mean or nasty orwhatever and they remember what
they say and then theyremembered what they said, you
know, and they're like oh, oh,my gosh, I'm not going to say
that again, right?
So?
And I kind of feel that whenElijah is making that statement,
you know I'm the only one, uh,I'm all alone, um, there's
(19:09):
nobody left, and he's goingthrough it again the second time
he's going through it.
He's like you know what that's?
probably not true.
You know what?
That's probably not true.
You know it's probably notbecause obadiah and he's he's a
good guy and I know he loves thelord and he's working right in
the same palace and obviouslygod's probably using him I'm
(19:29):
probably not the only one andthen god answers the question
for him afterwards.
I I think that second time,when God said, what are you
doing here, elijah?
He realized that his excuse wasnot an excuse at all.
So that's kind of how I feel.
When he got there and I thinkthat's why God speaks to us in a
(19:52):
still small voice in that way,and sometimes God's like I just
need you to go over that again.
Remember who I am and rememberwho you are and who, and then
you got to decide who's tellingthe truth.
Am I telling the truth?
Pastor Ryan (20:08):
or are you?
Pastor Tim (20:08):
telling the truth.
Pastor Ryan (20:11):
This isn't the only time in scripture where we see
God or and you know some of theother cases Jesus repeat the
question or just come with aquestion.
You know we're talking aboutthe God, who he is all knowing.
Right, he knows what Elijahhe's not like.
Hey, I'm, I'm, I got to do aninterrogation here and get
(20:34):
answers.
God knows Adam and Eve in thegarden.
God comes down, adam, where areyou?
What are you doing?
Who told you you were naked?
Right, I mean, he comes withthese questions, but the one
that, as you're saying all that,that immediately pops in my
head is Jesus's conversationwith Peter.
(20:55):
After Peter denies him, jesusgoes to the cross and comes back
.
Peter's out fishing, which alot of commentators think that
Peter's gone back to his oldlife, that's what he was doing
before he was a disciple.
Pastor Tim (21:12):
He didn't do what Elijah did.
Elijah had better spiritualinstincts.
He went back to the mountain ofGod.
But Peter went fishing, Wentfishing.
Pastor Ryan (21:21):
Yeah, went back to his old life.
And so there's that fork in theroad right.
And so Jesus shows up on theshore.
Peter's out in the boat and hesees him and jumps out of the
boat and he swims to the shoreand Jesus looks at him and says
Peter, do you love me?
Peter's like yeah, I love youand she says feed my sheep.
(21:47):
And Peter starts talking andJesus looks at him Peter do you
love me?
Asked him not once, not twice.
You know it feels a little bitlike LeBron leaving for Miami.
He asked him three times Peterdo you love me?
And this idea and I lovepreaching on that sermon and I
think there's this wholeconditional response thing going
on here how many times didPeter deny Jesus?
Three times, how many times didhe kind of reaffirm him Three
(22:11):
times?
But then that I think you saidthis in your sermon on Sunday
that God's voice doesn't justcomfort it, commissions.
Pastor Tim (22:21):
Yeah.
Pastor Ryan (22:21):
And so he comes to Elijah what are you doing here,
hey Elijah, what are you doinghere?
And he comes to Peter and hesays Peter, do you love me?
Oh, peter, do you love me?
Pastor Tim (22:36):
Yeah, I feel that.
Pastor Ryan (22:39):
Yeah, we expect God to come in condemnation.
You know that he's going toplay this.
You know God's playing thissick game of whack-a-mole.
He's just looking, waiting forus to stick our heads up so he
can just beat us with a mallet.
But Paul's already told usthere is no condemnation for
(22:59):
those who are in Christ Jesus.
We said on the podcast lastweek right now, god is singing
over you.
That's how he thinks of you.
And he wasn't caught off guardby Elijah's fear and depression
and his anxiety and all thestuff that drove him back to the
mountain.
Or Peter, saying what did Ijust waste the past three years
(23:22):
of my life for the guy that saidhe was supposed to be the son
of God was just hung on a cross.
I watched it happen.
I'm going fishing, I am overthis.
He wasn't caught off guard byany of that.
And when he comes, he comesback with this invitation, with
and I love how you said it notjust comfort but commissioning,
because in both of thoseaccounts he sends them back out.
(23:45):
Right, you're not supposed tobe here.
You're not supposed to be onthat boat.
Peter, do you love me?
Feed my sheep?
You know where sheep are not Onthe water.
Peter, get out of the waterRight, they're over here, go
feed my sheep.
And so I love that idea thatwhen he comes, he comes with an
invitation and recommissioned us.
(24:06):
He's pushing us back into thelife that he called us to.
Pastor Tim (24:11):
Peter's response to Jesus there was.
You know all things you knowthat I love you.
And when you read that or whenI read it, I always think okay,
jesus says do you love me?
He knows, peter loves him.
The problem is, peter's notsure if he loves him, you know,
(24:34):
and he just keeps asking him doyou love me?
And Peter's like yeah, I loveyou too.
Do I love him?
Why am I fishing?
Welcome (24:42):
You know right.
Pastor Tim (24:43):
You feel that so, um , I think God's so individual.
I mean, he didn't stand up onthe mountain like I made a big
presentation of it.
You know who walks on mymountain or whatever.
He's like Elijah.
What are you doing here?
(25:04):
He calls him by name, you know,and God's an individual God and
he's going to call you by name,and all the references that God
makes you're going to get.
It's not going to be beforeyour time or after your time.
All the things he inspires youto think about are on purpose.
(25:31):
Everything's going to be foryou and about you.
So when God speaks to you, evenin a small way, he's speaking
to you, to your situation, toyour history, to your future.
That's how individual God is,and he deals with all of us
(25:52):
individually.
Pastor Ryan (25:55):
That's so good.
What do you think and I youknow, I know commentators got a
lot of thoughts on this and it'sbeen talked about for probably
thousands of years now why doyou think what is the
significance, I guess, of of godspeaking to elijah in this
moment, not in the storm and inthe wind and all that stuff, but
(26:16):
in in the whisper, why?
Why do you think that'ssignificant in this moment, not
in the storm and in the wind andall that stuff, but in the
whisper?
Why do you think that'ssignificant in this story?
Pastor Tim (26:22):
All the commentators run along this line and it
makes sense and I believe thisis the most true is that God has
been doing big things withElijah.
I mean magic pots, magicbottles of oil, stopping the
(26:43):
rain, bringing the rain.
I mean we're talking big stuff.
Yeah, it's not it's not like I.
You know, I prayed and, and mystomach cramps went away and um,
and I went to the doctor and Iwas okay, stomach cramps went
away, and um, and I went to thedoctor and I was okay, and you
(27:03):
go home.
I preached a sermon, um, once.
Uh, was it prayer or was itcucumbers?
My mom had cancer, really bad,and and they were praying and
she had started retaining wateror something along that lines,
and someone told her to eatcucumbers, and then she had a
(27:26):
little prayer team.
She called them all up and cameto pray over it, and so two
days later she was fine and herquestion for me was so what do
you think?
Was it prayer or was it thecucumbers?
And sometimes you know, oh mom,I think that's in the Bible
somewhere.
(27:46):
But that's part of that processpromise thing.
You know, probably not thecenter part of it, but part of
it.
God is getting you to reach forhim, but he's got some things
that are smart for you to do inthe process.
Right, eat those cucumbers,they're good for you anyways,
(28:06):
and if you don't eat them, doesGod heal you, probably.
I mean, this is not either oror anything like that.
I'm not trying to make thatdistinction, but we have those
type of things in our life allthe time.
Those are the mundane thingsthat you know.
(28:28):
You got something going on andthe doctor says you're okay and
you prayed about it, and you'renot sure that I have something
going on and God healed me.
You know, you got this question.
Did I have something going onand God healed me?
You got this question.
There was no question inElijah's mind who God was and
what he could do.
I mean, he's raising peoplefrom the dead, he's bringing
storms, he's calling fire out ofheaven.
(28:49):
But I think what God was tryingto tell him was look, these are
all great things and there's abig storm out there, there's a
big wind, there's an earthquake,there's a big fire, and I can
handle all that, I do all that,I can be all that, but look, the
(29:11):
life is in the whisper, thelife is in the mundane.
Now you've got to go out andlive that life.
And one thing I try to encouragepeople is let me preface it
with this I've got a lot ofillustrations today, I should
write all this down when you goup on top of Mount Washington
(29:34):
over in what are those states upthere?
Pastor Ryan (29:38):
Not Washington, because I feel like we talked
about this before and I waswrong.
Pastor Tim (29:42):
Yeah, and I'm going to say the same thing I said
then.
The trees up there are likesome of them are way up, 180
years old and they're only threefoot high, because you're above
the alpine line, you know, andtrees just don't grow up there
and you grow down in the valley,and I think that's part of what
(30:04):
the Lord is saying.
You got to get back to work,you know.
We got some things to do andI'm not going to do it like you
want me to do it, but I'm goingto do it, and so I think that's
what this was all about.
He was running high and hot,you know.
Think about Billy Graham.
(30:25):
He has these crusades with ahundred, sometimes a quarter
million people show up.
Then he has one with 90,000show up and then 50,000 show up,
and then 25 and then 10.
(30:47):
You know what's?
What's Billy Graham thinking?
You know, am I?
Where'd you go, god?
We should, we should keepclimbing you know, keep climbing
the numbers and trying to growthis church.
You know what that feels like,right, yeah, ok, we're not going
in the same direction we weregoing.
What are we doing somethingwrong?
(31:09):
Have we missed a turn?
What's going on?
God?
And he says I'm getting youprepared for the next level, so
just get prepared, do your job.
And we have a hard time withthat.
It's just.
You know, all our movies arebased on conquering and being on
top, unless it's Rocky.
He gets on top and then he getsknocked back to the bottom,
(31:32):
which is probably more in linewith the truth than, um, all the
other movies we watched, thehappily ever after movies I
think Ty just told me thatthey're coming out with another
Rocky.
Pastor Ryan (31:43):
Sylvester Stallone's gotta be like 80
years old.
He needs put the gloves up,dude, Just stop.
I don't.
I don't know what's.
I don't know if that's true ornot?
Pastor Tim (31:51):
well, he can keep going.
He doesn't ever get really gethit.
It's not like a real boxer,george foreman, I know that.
Pastor Ryan (31:59):
But I'm just thinking like we got to make it
do something different.
Be a grandpa in a movie, uhyeah, leave this boxing thing
alone.
Pastor Tim (32:06):
You're 80 um, nobody's gonna buy sylvester
stallone movie where he's justgrandpa papa, papa.
No, I saw the guy beat up arussian yeah, yeah it ain't
happening, but george foremandied last week.
Did you hear about that?
I did hear about that.
Pastor Ryan (32:24):
I love george you big boxing fan I am, uh, uh, my
dad.
Pastor Tim (32:29):
No, I'll say no because when my dad died, I quit
watching boxing, but it's oneof those things we did together,
you know, and my dad was alwaysreally good at it and I was
always really bad at boxing andum but I mean, he was like great
boxer, wasn't?
Pastor Ryan (32:45):
yeah, he was all fleet, all pacific fleet
champion that's amazing yeah Iwatch boxing like, nah, I, I
don't want no part of that.
Yeah, that fight sermon serieswith the box.
That's about as close to boxingas I ever want to get I love
george.
Pastor Tim (33:00):
They called him pastor george.
He was a.
He was a preacher.
Pastor Ryan (33:03):
It's awesome made a good.
Uh, he's the guy that came outthat grilling griddle thing too.
Pastor Tim (33:09):
That was great I yeah, and everybody now are
buying.
You can go out and get a georgeforeman grill for like 35 bucks
, but now everybody, it's gotthese big fancy ones and you
look at them you're like, that'sjust a george foreman grill,
but it says blackstone on it.
So it's's $200.
Yeah, I love that guy and it'sweird how you miss someone,
(33:34):
because when he was doing histours with his stupid grill and
all that kind of stuff, hetalked about the Lord all the
time.
Pastor Ryan (33:44):
Raised the Lord for it and the grill, because that
thing was awesome.
Pastor Tim (33:49):
I still got the big one.
Pastor Ryan (33:50):
Yeah, and the grill Cause.
That that thing was awesome.
Yeah, I still got the big one.
Yeah, that's awesome.
Yeah, our wives are going tokill us for that little detour
as I'm thinking of this.
I'm really good, I got a thingabout that.
Pastor Tim (34:01):
I miss him already.
Isn't that weird?
I haven't heard about him orfrom him for a long time and now
he's gone.
Pastor Ryan (34:07):
I miss him you know , I don't know what that says
about our human experience, butyeah, those parts like I don't
even know the guy you know, butwe feel like we're losing parts
of us when some of those iconsand heroes that we've looked up
to and followed along the years,uh, pass away.
You're like well, hold on now.
You just don't feel as whole asyou did before.
Pastor Tim (34:29):
I don't know yeah.
Pastor Ryan (34:31):
But I think in Elijah's case here you know, he,
as you said, he has seen God inall these amazing things.
Pastor Tim (34:38):
I mean all right, that was a horrible segue from
George Foreman.
Pastor Ryan (34:42):
Right back into this, right back into the
podcast.
It didn't work.
I tripped and fell on my face.
Someone's got to get us back ontrack.
But here's a guy who's seen godin all of these.
I mean, he's seen god in theweather right, don't rain.
All right, doesn't rain, rain.
Here's a storm, fire fromheaven, boom.
(35:03):
He's seen god in all of thatand I think what you're saying
is right.
I mean, he had to, and to seehim in the mundane stuff, right,
um.
I can't remember who it whosaid it first.
I don't know how long it's beenaround, but you know, someone
said god whispers because he'sclose, um, and I think I'll take
credit for that pastor timfirst said god whispers because
(35:26):
he's close.
Pastor Tim (35:28):
And that was a joke too.
Okay, Just so you know.
I don't want some guy callingme about copyright laws or
whatever.
Pastor Ryan (35:35):
Have the whole podcast shut down.
I think we need that reminder.
I think Elijah needs it.
Elijah, I got you I'm righthere, you know, and and that
call to to recommission him.
I'm not just in the spectacle,I'm not just in the— I love that
(35:56):
word right there.
Pastor Tim (35:58):
I'm not in the spectacle.
Pastor Ryan (36:00):
We're just in it because he's in it, but I'm not
just in it and we look at ourexperience, our relationship
with God, and we think it's allgoosebumps.
You know, when I come to churchand I man, the Spirit was
really moving today and the hairon the back of your neck stands
up when the band sings that onesong or that you know vocalist
(36:21):
hits that one note and you'relike, oh, spirit is in this
place.
Yeah, he's also with you atwork on Monday.
He's also with you when you'rehelping your kid do their
homework or disciplining yourkid, or when your boss is
yelling at you, he's still there.
I'm not just in the spectacle,I'm there.
(36:44):
And those are great moments andI think God loves it too, when
we have a heightened awarenessof his presence.
I think God enjoys being withus in those moments, but just as
much God says I enjoy you righthere.
Pastor Tim (36:58):
And, more than that, he enjoys you in your sorrow
when you've had that loss.
And it's just, you just don'tknow if you're going to be able
to crawl your way out.
And God encourages you and saysI'm here, you don't have to.
You don't have to reach to crawlout.
(37:19):
Right now.
Let's curl up here together andand we'll just wait this out
till we're strong enough I'lllet you know when it's time to
crawl out.
Yeah, yeah, he's a good God.
And so those deep, sad and thenscary I don't know what to do.
(37:40):
My anxiety's out of control.
Is he really going to leave us,or this test result is really
scary?
The doctor won't talk to me onthe phone.
He wants me to come in.
Those are the oh God.
And God is like I'm here.
I'm here with you.
(38:00):
It's not just in.
You know those worship songs,or when I use you to win one of
the kids to the Lord at church,or all those great things.
He's like I'm here, right here,at this time too.
Pastor Ryan (38:18):
It's a reminder that I think Elijah needed and
it's one that we need so that weremember he's I mean he
promised I will never leave younor forsake you.
David said where can I go fromyour presence?
You know, if I go to themountain, you're there.
If I'm in the valley, you'rethere.
Like everywhere, you're stillthere.
(38:40):
Where could I go to get awayfrom you?
And I think that's what God isteaching Elijah is I'm here too,
I'm right here.
And then the question to saywhat are you doing here?
You found me here, but what areyou doing here?
And that pushing him back outinto the life that God had
(39:03):
prepared for him.
Pastor Tim (39:05):
And to his in his mission, yeah, and in his
mission.
There's something that'shappening right after this.
He tells him to go anoint acouple kings, and those kings
are going to kick Baal's buttand everybody who's worshiping
Baal and that's important.
But the next thing he does ishe has to go anoint his
(39:28):
replacement, elisha.
And this whole scenario, if hesends Elijah, after he prays for
the rain to come, and the raincomes, so he's got resurrection
and magic oil pots and all thesethings under his belt, fire
(39:52):
from heaven, destroying theprophets of Baal.
That's all in his book.
Then he anoints Elisha.
Elisha looks like okay, this iswhere I've got to go from here.
I've got to go up, up, up, up,up, up up you know, and so if
that doesn't happen, I'm I'm afailure.
(40:13):
This had to happen to elijah sohe can anoint the next guy and
let him know.
This is what this looks like,and sometimes it don't turn out
the way you think it's going toturn out, and what you think is
a big win is a longer road thanyou thought.
Pastor Ryan (40:37):
That lesson is so deep and so profound.
If you're listening to thispodcast, you need to chew on
that this week, because that isoh, there is so much there.
Elisha had to know that.
You know.
(40:57):
To say again, we assume thatwhen we show up and there's 400
or 500 people at Easter serviceand the full services are packed
, man, god is here, god ismoving, um and and Tim, you and
I, we've been doing ministrytogether long enough that we
(41:19):
have.
I mean, I think one of the veryfirst things you told me when
we were starting out together isministry is always in
transition.
Right, it's always intransition.
Together's ministry is alwaysin transition.
Right, it's always intransition.
And we've seen the church growand we've seen it decline.
We've seen it doing amazing,we've seen it struggling, and
(41:45):
it's easy to think, well, god'sonly in it when things are
moving in a good direction, whenmore people are coming, and you
know all this stuff ishappening and, and I think what
god is telling elijah and elishaand us is I'm with you the
whole time.
Yeah, when the church had 220back in 2010, I was there.
(42:06):
Yeah, I was also there when thechurch had 80 people coming out
of COVID, yeah, and I'm withyou.
Now, when you show up on aSunday morning and you can't
find a parking spot and youcan't find a seat in the
auditorium, and you got to dotwo services on Easter, I'm
there too, right, I'm always.
I've always been here and Ilove what you're saying.
(42:30):
Elisha had to know he was with.
He was there at the 82 right.
He was there when things didn'tlook good.
Um, because, yeah, you look, ifit's all just up, up, up and up
, you know, up into the right,it's like where do I go right
and am I a failure if it doesn'tturn out this way?
And to see man, elijah went tothe valley and then to the
(42:54):
mountain and he was hiding andhe found God.
God hadn't left him.
You said it earlier.
God is so good, he's so good tous.
I don't want to move too muchfurther from that because I want
people to chew on that thisweek.
But any final thoughts to kindof wrap this up.
Pastor Tim (43:17):
Oh, what's the scripture?
Oh, it's in my Ministry 101class.
God's going to Tim's paraphrase.
God's going to use what youwent through so you can counsel
someone else who's going to gothrough it too.
And man, I can't believe thatverse won't come to mind.
Pastor Ryan (43:40):
I know exactly what you're talking about.
He comforts us in our comfortso that we can comfort others.
Pastor Tim (43:46):
Right, and that's so important.
That's so important and thatwas what Elijah was going to
have to train in Elisha.
And so, wherever you are,whatever you're doing, there's a
purpose for it.
The struggle that you're havingand God's only speaking in the
whisper, he's not bringing downfire for you it's because you're
(44:09):
going to have to talk aboutfaithfulness to someone else one
day who's in the same situationas you are.
So shake it off, walk that walkand make sure that you're ready
to share the hope that you havein Jesus Christ.
Pastor Ryan (44:33):
We're going to wrap it up.
Seems like you got a phone call, so let me pray for us.
Sorry, that's a good spot to endit.
Father, we thank you for thisstory.
God, I thank you for Elijah'sfaith and his confidence in you
and your ability and who you sayyou are and what you can do.
God, I'm inspired of his loveand belief that this was going
(44:58):
to make a difference for hispeople and Lord, when it doesn't
turn out the way that hethought, I'm glad he went to the
mountain to meet you.
There he sat and he waited foryou and, god, you met him right
where he's at.
You spoke to him.
It was personal and not just tocomfort him, but to commission
(45:18):
him to lead him back out intothe life that you created him to
live.
Amen, and Father, I pray thatyou do that for each of us today
and meet us where we're at, inour confusion and in our doubt,
no matter which way, when we gotto the fork in the road,
whether we went left or right.
Father, I pray that you'd meetus right there and draw us back
(45:39):
to yourself.
Let us lean in, because we knowthat you're close, to receive
that comfort and that help inour time of need, knowing that
it is for a purpose, so that wecan bring that comfort and that
help in our time of need,knowing that it is for a purpose
, so that we can bring thatcomfort and help to the people
around us.
Thank you that you're such agood God that you care for us In
Jesus' name, amen.
Amen.
Welcome (46:00):
Thanks again for joining us for this episode of
the Midweek Podcast.
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Midweek Podcast.
Be blessed and have a greatweek.
Welcome and thanks for joining us on this episode of
the Midweek Podcast brought toyou by A Fresh Wind Church.
Each week, our team brings younew content to help you take
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Today's episode is hosted byPastor Ryan.
Pastor Ryan (00:27):
Well, hey, welcome back to the Midweek Podcast.
Pastor Ryan joined again withPastor Tim and we are in week
three of our series Come to theMountain, looking at these
different mountain topexperiences where people
encounter God on the mountain,and looking just at God's
character, how he revealshimself to us, because we want
(00:48):
to know and see God for who hereally is.
And on Sunday Pastor Tim talkedabout the story of Elijah and I
don't know about you, Tim, thisis one of my favorite stories
in scripture.
I love it because it seems likeit just covers so much of the
human experience from thesegreat heights to, like, really
(01:10):
low valleys.
Pastor Tim (01:11):
There's so much.
When I was growing up let mestop that sentence and and give
you a little background here.
When I was growing up, um, Icouldn't watch a lot of the
things on TV, hee-haw, becausethe shorts were too short and so
forth and so on.
But I loved space stuff.
So my dad, who was the one whodecided whether I can watch TV
(01:36):
or not, would watch Star Trekwith me.
Pastor Ryan (01:39):
So he's to blame for this whole Star Trek thing.
He's to blame, he let me do itthis whole.
Pastor Tim (01:48):
So he's he's to blame, he let me, he let me do
it.
And one thing about, uh,captain kirk in the original is
he.
He quoted shakespeare all thetime and, um, it made me want to
go figure out where that camefrom.
And um, shakespeare had a Idon't know some kind of view
(02:09):
into the complexity of the humancondition.
And this story, I mean it isreally when you look at the
psychological complexity that'sgoing on and I know a lot of
(02:29):
people who don't believe in thescripture would roll their eyes
well, all that's a myth.
None of that happened.
But if you just look at howElijah reacts to every part, the
victory, then when his life isthreatened, how he reacts, and
(02:51):
then his depression and then hishiding, I mean you just see
this whole menagerie of humanemotion that comes out in this
situation.
And what we see here is what wesee in people who get sent
(03:12):
overseas in the military ordeployed to war zones and crazy
things happen and it don'thappen like you think it's going
to happen and all these things,and it causes PTSD.
And I see that here.
I see him struggling with theresults of his win and that is,
(03:32):
if that's not insight into thehuman condition, I don't know
what is.
Pastor Ryan (03:37):
Yeah.
Pastor Tim (03:37):
It's a.
Pastor Ryan (03:38):
It's an interesting case study to to watch Elijah
go up on that Cause.
He's full of confidence in God,that God is who he says he is.
I mean, there's no doubt.
He builds this altar and he'slike I'm going to dig a trench
around it, we're going to pourwater on it, we're going to I
mean, when God shows up, he'sgoing to show up and then he's
(03:58):
mocking the other guys Maybeyour God's in the bathroom,
maybe he took a nap, maybe he'son vacation, you know like just
going to town on him and then hegoes from that to this man
hiding in the cave and you'relike how could the same guy and
this is what I love about astory in the how it relates to
(04:20):
the human experience, becauseit's like how can the same guy
be on the mountain, be the sameguy that's hiding in the cave?
But then you look at your ownlife and you're like, well, man,
there's definitely been timeswhen I feel like I'm on the
mountain, where, you know, Ifeel like I could conquer the
world, and then there's there'stimes when I feel like man, I
can't win at anything.
It's what I love about hisstory is it's just, it's so.
(04:46):
I don't know if I've ever beena part of something quite that
drastic, but the emotional highsand lows I've experienced for
sure.
Pastor Tim (04:51):
The first thing that happens, though, is he prays
that there'll be no rain.
Now God tells him to do this,and he prays, and then there is
no rain.
So that is, that is a big faithbuilding situation, right there
, right, and then he runs offand he finds this widow that
he's um living with, and shedon't.
She's like I can't take care ofyou, I don't have anything.
(05:13):
And then, um, they get the uh,the oil that never ceases, the
magic uh, pot, and um, thesethings are happening right
before his eyes.
Now, I don't know if this kindof stuff happened with him all
the time, but these differentsituations that he finds himself
(05:37):
in, god is showing up, so hisexcitement and confidence in
what God's going to do is it'sbeen great up to this point.
Then her son dies, and Godraises him back from the dead,
because Elijah prayed, and he'sall sauced up at this point, you
(05:58):
know and he comes walking backI think it's Jezreel, where Ahab
wasab was ruling from, and he'slike I'm going to see ahab,
let's go, you know.
And he goes, it's time to talk.
And he gets, he finds obadiah,and obadiah is like man, I don't
know, this is probably notgoing to go very well.
(06:19):
And and elijah's like what areyou talking about, man?
I got, I got this, let's go Me,and God, we're going to take
care of this.
And he gets in Ahab's face,climbs up on Mount Carmel, which
is Baal's mountain, and theyhave this big face-off and he
(06:40):
makes it so everybodyunderstands who's the God, you
know Right right.
And so this victory is amazing.
And then he prays and then astorm's coming.
He sees the storm coming fromafar off and tells Ahab you
better get going.
So Ahab takes off in hischariot to get back home before
(07:07):
the sloppy mess comes.
And then he runs in front ofhis chariot for 20 miles.
So it's just like icing on thecake to Ahab and it's like, okay
, there is this feeling inElijah it's my own personal view
(07:29):
on this that God is going tochange Ahab's heart and he's
going to change Jezebel's heartand they're going to give their
heart to Yahweh and then thewhole country is going to tear
down the idols and they're goingto start worshiping Yahweh.
Look what's happened, you know,raise this guy from the dead,
(07:54):
stop the rain.
The rain's coming, fire fromheaven.
The whole thing, the world'sgoing to change.
We have saved the country.
They are all going to come backto the Lord and we're going to
worship again and spirit andtruth, and God is going to be
our God and we're going to behis people.
And this is what Elijah wanted.
(08:15):
He loved his people and this isthe goal, this is what I want.
And all these great thingshappen and they get.
Get back there and instead ofJezebel saying oh my gosh,
that's fantastic, so your God isking, we need to worship him,
instead she says I'm going tokill him.
And he didn't get what hewanted.
(08:38):
Now God got what he wanted, youknow, and sometimes we don't
know exactly what God wants.
You know, and sometimes wedon't know exactly what god
wants.
But elijah said this is is thiswhat I did?
All this for for me to be thelast one who believes?
And often he takes off and,yeah, hides in.
Pastor Ryan (09:00):
You know, as someone in ministry, you kind of
feel it.
I guess you can relate to it.
I don't know, I don't want tospeak for you, but I feel some
of that.
You know where you can havethese just amazing moments in
ministry see God do some amazingthings, and then you can leave
(09:22):
feeling defeated or drained,especially if it didn't turn out
the way that you wanted or thatyou had hoped.
Yeah, all these people showedup, but it didn't go the way
that I had anticipated.
You're writing this sermon,getting everything planned, and
(09:42):
you just feel, man, god is allover this thing, and then you
preach it, it and no one lookslike they're getting it.
You're like what is happeninghere?
Pastor Tim (09:48):
And there's two guys snoring in tandem in the back.
Pastor Ryan (09:51):
It's like, how could I have felt so in tune
with God during the week writingthis message?
And I get here and it justdoesn't translate, nobody's
getting it, and so I feel someof that.
I'm not saying to the sameextent I've never called fire
from heaven, um, but I, man,I've had those moments when you
(10:14):
feel like me and god can doanything, and then just that
defeat, or that I'm drained, I'mexhausted, I've got nothing
left, um, and he comes here andyeah, jezebel's like I'm going
to kill this guy, and he takesoff.
I mean the same guy like, dude,just do the fire thing again.
(10:37):
That worked last time, do thatagain.
And instead he just takes offand hides.
And that that human experienceI think so many people can
relate to it.
Of God.
I just I don't know if I gotanything left.
Pastor Tim (10:52):
Well, that's that point where you're learning to
depend on God.
It wasn't his fire thing.
It's one thing I preach.
You hear me say it all the timeyou don't wield God, he wields
you yeah.
And so when you're like, okay,the time you don't wield god, he
wields you yeah and um.
So when, when you're like, okay, god, you just did this fire
(11:13):
thing, do it again, no, what?
Well, wait a minute, what's the?
This is the same circumstance,I know, but I'm not going to do
this again.
And it shocks you.
It shocked Elijah, I know hewas thinking everybody's going
to come back to God and we dothat too.
(11:33):
Every book you read aboutstarting a church or building a
church, and it's got one bigword in there momentum, momentum
.
Oh, if you've got the momentum,you've got to capitalize on the
momentum.
If you're getting a littlemomentum, you've oh, if you got
the momentum, you got tocapitalize on the momentum.
If you get in a little momentum, you got to feed into that
momentum.
And it's like how is that?
How do I spiritually, how do Iwrap that in biblical, um,
(11:58):
inspired spirituality, momentum,because I've got a God who
stops me and prepares me for thenext level.
You know I can't momentum myway through or I'll leave him
somewhere behind, and so it's.
It's very difficult for pastors, especially when they have
(12:22):
momentum and then it doesn't goanywhere or it rolls off for a
few years, you know.
And so it's.
It's tough, especially whenevery book is like oh, you
missed your momentum, that'swhat happened, and I just want
to look up the authors andstrangle them.
Pastor Ryan (12:42):
Figuratively speaking, of course.
Yes, yes, I have to let me.
Let me say that was a joke,strangle them Figuratively
speaking, of course.
Pastor Tim (12:47):
Yes, I have to.
Let me say that was a joke.
I was just.
I wasn't even speaking infrustration.
I was trying to be funny.
Okay, I know the world we livein now.
Pastor Ryan (12:57):
I know Everybody's so literal.
Yeah, it's we we want and Ithink, elijah here.
So he, he takes off and he runsand he's wanting God to do
something right, god, you, yougotta protect me, you gotta do
something here.
Well, how did I end up in thispoint?
How, why would you do thisgreat thing?
(13:18):
And now I'm I'm the only oneleft.
I'm running for my life.
What has happened?
And we look at our life.
I think a lot like that.
God, how did I end up in thisplace?
Why would you allow this tohappen to me?
And it's real easy for us tostart questioning God's goodness
and questioning God's motivesand his intentions, to say, man,
(13:42):
is God truly good?
Because if he was good, whydoes my life look like this?
You know, and we're talkingabout Elijah, who calls fire
down from heaven.
I mean, that's a level ofintimacy with God.
Pastor Tim (13:58):
That's pretty special.
Before we rain on his paradetoo much, he's got great
spiritual instincts.
Okay, he, yeah, this happened,and it didn't result in the
people coming back to God, buthis, his instinct is not to say,
all right, I'm done with this.
You know, I do everything yousay, and then it never turns out
(14:20):
the way you know, I think itshould be.
I'm sure that's not what he'sthinking, but the way it should
be, the way you should want itto turn out, god, why don't you
just let it happen?
His instinct, though, is to goto the mountain.
His instinct isn't to walk awayand say I'm done with this or
I'm out of ministry, I'm notgoing to do this anymore.
(14:42):
He knew God enough that that'swhere he was going to go.
He was going to go back to God,even when he was disappointed
with God's decision.
Yeah.
Pastor Ryan (14:54):
And that's a good point, and I guess where I was
going is a lot of us faced withthat's a similar situation.
Right, we come to that fork inthe road.
Do I trust God's goodness here,because that's the human nature
is I'll begin to question God.
How could he allow me to end upin this place?
(15:16):
Um, or we lean into it.
And you know, I think on Sundayyou talked about promise versus
the process, you know, and Ithink it was oh gosh, this is
back at the old building, soquite a few years ago, um, but
we did this Easter series calledlife in the gap, and it was
(15:39):
that same sort of flair, youknow.
So, as soon as you starttalking promise and process, I'm
like, man, this is, yes, thisis what I want to preach about
all the time, but this, you know, finding God in the gap, that
he's in the process, and we seeElijah leaning into that.
You know, it's easy for us togo the other way and say, god,
(16:03):
this isn't what I signed up for.
Um, and I, man, I, just I, I'vetalked to so many people and
that's where they're at.
God, this isn't what I signedup for.
If you're good, why am I inthis place.
If you're good, why is thishappening to me?
Um?
how do you think then, I mean we, we.
(16:23):
If you read this um the passage, or if you were here for the
sermon, um, you kind of knowwhat happens with Elijah.
But what do you think we dowhen we get to those moments
where we need God to show up?
Um do when we get to thosemoments where we need God to
show up Because we're lost,we're in the valley?
(16:44):
How do we recalibrate ourselves, do you think?
Pastor Tim (16:48):
First of all, we need to be honest, like Elijah
was, and we need to tell God howwe feel and how disappointed we
are in him.
I mean, he goes to the mountain.
That's good spiritual instincts.
He doesn't go up there to get anew assignment.
He goes up there to say, god,just take me home.
I'm tired of this.
They're never going to dowhat's right.
(17:09):
I'm the only one left.
I'm the only one that cares,kind of like I was when I was
under that stage.
That was a tough day.
Pastor Ryan (17:19):
I remember that phone call.
I honor you, I praise you.
Thank you, tim.
Pastor Tim (17:27):
And even if it's a lie, I'll take it.
Pastor Ryan (17:29):
I'll give him.
Pastor Tim (17:34):
He was up there and he was just letting God know.
And the first time God he askedhim this question twice.
What are you doing here, elijah?
First time Elijah doesn't hearhim because he's already loaded,
he's locked and loaded and he'swaiting for God to say
something so he can just let himhave it.
And I see him when God says itto him again and he repeats what
(18:00):
he says the first time.
When I was studying it last week, it felt like to me that his
second time he said it was aquestion.
You know, one thing I learnedon the debate team and our
debate team was one debate inhigh school but one thing I
(18:24):
learned from a guy was that whenyou're attacked, make them
repeat it, especially if it's adhominem, if they're just trying
to get to you or insult you,usually you can take a breath
and just say can you repeat that?
And when people do repeat whatthey just said off the cuff,
(18:46):
which was mean or nasty orwhatever and they remember what
they say and then theyremembered what they said, you
know, and they're like oh, oh,my gosh, I'm not going to say
that again, right?
So?
And I kind of feel that whenElijah is making that statement,
you know I'm the only one, uh,I'm all alone, um, there's
(19:09):
nobody left, and he's goingthrough it again the second time
he's going through it.
He's like you know what that's?
probably not true.
You know what?
That's probably not true.
You know it's probably notbecause obadiah and he's he's a
good guy and I know he loves thelord and he's working right in
the same palace and obviouslygod's probably using him I'm
(19:29):
probably not the only one andthen god answers the question
for him afterwards.
I I think that second time,when God said, what are you
doing here, elijah?
He realized that his excuse wasnot an excuse at all.
So that's kind of how I feel.
When he got there and I thinkthat's why God speaks to us in a
(19:52):
still small voice in that way,and sometimes God's like I just
need you to go over that again.
Remember who I am and rememberwho you are and who, and then
you got to decide who's tellingthe truth.
Am I telling the truth?
Pastor Ryan (20:08):
or are you?
Pastor Tim (20:08):
telling the truth.
Pastor Ryan (20:11):
This isn't the only time in scripture where we see
God or and you know some of theother cases Jesus repeat the
question or just come with aquestion.
You know we're talking aboutthe God, who he is all knowing.
Right, he knows what Elijahhe's not like.
Hey, I'm, I'm, I got to do aninterrogation here and get
(20:34):
answers.
God knows Adam and Eve in thegarden.
God comes down, adam, where areyou?
What are you doing?
Who told you you were naked?
Right, I mean, he comes withthese questions, but the one
that, as you're saying all that,that immediately pops in my
head is Jesus's conversationwith Peter.
(20:55):
After Peter denies him, jesusgoes to the cross and comes back
.
Peter's out fishing, which alot of commentators think that
Peter's gone back to his oldlife, that's what he was doing
before he was a disciple.
Pastor Tim (21:12):
He didn't do what Elijah did.
Elijah had better spiritualinstincts.
He went back to the mountain ofGod.
But Peter went fishing, Wentfishing.
Pastor Ryan (21:21):
Yeah, went back to his old life.
And so there's that fork in theroad right.
And so Jesus shows up on theshore.
Peter's out in the boat and hesees him and jumps out of the
boat and he swims to the shoreand Jesus looks at him and says
Peter, do you love me?
Peter's like yeah, I love youand she says feed my sheep.
(21:47):
And Peter starts talking andJesus looks at him Peter do you
love me?
Asked him not once, not twice.
You know it feels a little bitlike LeBron leaving for Miami.
He asked him three times Peterdo you love me?
And this idea and I lovepreaching on that sermon and I
think there's this wholeconditional response thing going
on here how many times didPeter deny Jesus?
Three times, how many times didhe kind of reaffirm him Three
(22:11):
times?
But then that I think you saidthis in your sermon on Sunday
that God's voice doesn't justcomfort it, commissions.
Pastor Tim (22:21):
Yeah.
Pastor Ryan (22:21):
And so he comes to Elijah what are you doing here,
hey Elijah, what are you doinghere?
And he comes to Peter and hesays Peter, do you love me?
Oh, peter, do you love me?
Pastor Tim (22:36):
Yeah, I feel that.
Pastor Ryan (22:39):
Yeah, we expect God to come in condemnation.
You know that he's going toplay this.
You know God's playing thissick game of whack-a-mole.
He's just looking, waiting forus to stick our heads up so he
can just beat us with a mallet.
But Paul's already told usthere is no condemnation for
(22:59):
those who are in Christ Jesus.
We said on the podcast lastweek right now, god is singing
over you.
That's how he thinks of you.
And he wasn't caught off guardby Elijah's fear and depression
and his anxiety and all thestuff that drove him back to the
mountain.
Or Peter, saying what did Ijust waste the past three years
(23:22):
of my life for the guy that saidhe was supposed to be the son
of God was just hung on a cross.
I watched it happen.
I'm going fishing, I am overthis.
He wasn't caught off guard byany of that.
And when he comes, he comesback with this invitation, with
and I love how you said it notjust comfort but commissioning,
because in both of thoseaccounts he sends them back out.
(23:45):
Right, you're not supposed tobe here.
You're not supposed to be onthat boat.
Peter, do you love me?
Feed my sheep?
You know where sheep are not Onthe water.
Peter, get out of the waterRight, they're over here, go
feed my sheep.
And so I love that idea thatwhen he comes, he comes with an
invitation and recommissioned us.
(24:06):
He's pushing us back into thelife that he called us to.
Pastor Tim (24:11):
Peter's response to Jesus there was.
You know all things you knowthat I love you.
And when you read that or whenI read it, I always think okay,
jesus says do you love me?
He knows, peter loves him.
The problem is, peter's notsure if he loves him, you know,
(24:34):
and he just keeps asking him doyou love me?
And Peter's like yeah, I loveyou too.
Do I love him?
Why am I fishing?
Welcome (24:42):
You know right.
Pastor Tim (24:43):
You feel that so, um , I think God's so individual.
I mean, he didn't stand up onthe mountain like I made a big
presentation of it.
You know who walks on mymountain or whatever.
He's like Elijah.
What are you doing here?
(25:04):
He calls him by name, you know,and God's an individual God and
he's going to call you by name,and all the references that God
makes you're going to get.
It's not going to be beforeyour time or after your time.
All the things he inspires youto think about are on purpose.
(25:31):
Everything's going to be foryou and about you.
So when God speaks to you, evenin a small way, he's speaking
to you, to your situation, toyour history, to your future.
That's how individual God is,and he deals with all of us
(25:52):
individually.
Pastor Ryan (25:55):
That's so good.
What do you think and I youknow, I know commentators got a
lot of thoughts on this and it'sbeen talked about for probably
thousands of years now why doyou think what is the
significance, I guess, of of godspeaking to elijah in this
moment, not in the storm and inthe wind and all that stuff, but
(26:16):
in in the whisper, why?
Why do you think that'ssignificant in this moment, not
in the storm and in the wind andall that stuff, but in the
whisper?
Why do you think that'ssignificant in this story?
Pastor Tim (26:22):
All the commentators run along this line and it
makes sense and I believe thisis the most true is that God has
been doing big things withElijah.
I mean magic pots, magicbottles of oil, stopping the
(26:43):
rain, bringing the rain.
I mean we're talking big stuff.
Yeah, it's not it's not like I.
You know, I prayed and, and mystomach cramps went away and um,
and I went to the doctor and Iwas okay, stomach cramps went
away, and um, and I went to thedoctor and I was okay, and you
(27:03):
go home.
I preached a sermon, um, once.
Uh, was it prayer or was itcucumbers?
My mom had cancer, really bad,and and they were praying and
she had started retaining wateror something along that lines,
and someone told her to eatcucumbers, and then she had a
(27:26):
little prayer team.
She called them all up and cameto pray over it, and so two
days later she was fine and herquestion for me was so what do
you think?
Was it prayer or was it thecucumbers?
And sometimes you know, oh mom,I think that's in the Bible
somewhere.
(27:46):
But that's part of that processpromise thing.
You know, probably not thecenter part of it, but part of
it.
God is getting you to reach forhim, but he's got some things
that are smart for you to do inthe process.
Right, eat those cucumbers,they're good for you anyways,
(28:06):
and if you don't eat them, doesGod heal you, probably.
I mean, this is not either oror anything like that.
I'm not trying to make thatdistinction, but we have those
type of things in our life allthe time.
Those are the mundane thingsthat you know.
(28:28):
You got something going on andthe doctor says you're okay and
you prayed about it, and you'renot sure that I have something
going on and God healed me.
You know, you got this question.
Did I have something going onand God healed me?
You got this question.
There was no question inElijah's mind who God was and
what he could do.
I mean, he's raising peoplefrom the dead, he's bringing
storms, he's calling fire out ofheaven.
(28:49):
But I think what God was tryingto tell him was look, these are
all great things and there's abig storm out there, there's a
big wind, there's an earthquake,there's a big fire, and I can
handle all that, I do all that,I can be all that, but look, the
(29:11):
life is in the whisper, thelife is in the mundane.
Now you've got to go out andlive that life.
And one thing I try to encouragepeople is let me preface it
with this I've got a lot ofillustrations today, I should
write all this down when you goup on top of Mount Washington
(29:34):
over in what are those states upthere?
Pastor Ryan (29:38):
Not Washington, because I feel like we talked
about this before and I waswrong.
Pastor Tim (29:42):
Yeah, and I'm going to say the same thing I said
then.
The trees up there are likesome of them are way up, 180
years old and they're only threefoot high, because you're above
the alpine line, you know, andtrees just don't grow up there
and you grow down in the valley,and I think that's part of what
(30:04):
the Lord is saying.
You got to get back to work,you know.
We got some things to do andI'm not going to do it like you
want me to do it, but I'm goingto do it, and so I think that's
what this was all about.
He was running high and hot,you know.
Think about Billy Graham.
(30:25):
He has these crusades with ahundred, sometimes a quarter
million people show up.
Then he has one with 90,000show up and then 50,000 show up,
and then 25 and then 10.
(30:47):
You know what's?
What's Billy Graham thinking?
You know, am I?
Where'd you go, god?
We should, we should keepclimbing you know, keep climbing
the numbers and trying to growthis church.
You know what that feels like,right, yeah, ok, we're not going
in the same direction we weregoing.
What are we doing somethingwrong?
(31:09):
Have we missed a turn?
What's going on?
God?
And he says I'm getting youprepared for the next level, so
just get prepared, do your job.
And we have a hard time withthat.
It's just.
You know, all our movies arebased on conquering and being on
top, unless it's Rocky.
He gets on top and then he getsknocked back to the bottom,
(31:32):
which is probably more in linewith the truth than, um, all the
other movies we watched, thehappily ever after movies I
think Ty just told me thatthey're coming out with another
Rocky.
Pastor Ryan (31:43):
Sylvester Stallone's gotta be like 80
years old.
He needs put the gloves up,dude, Just stop.
I don't.
I don't know what's.
I don't know if that's true ornot?
Pastor Tim (31:51):
well, he can keep going.
He doesn't ever get really gethit.
It's not like a real boxer,george foreman, I know that.
Pastor Ryan (31:59):
But I'm just thinking like we got to make it
do something different.
Be a grandpa in a movie, uhyeah, leave this boxing thing
alone.
Pastor Tim (32:06):
You're 80 um, nobody's gonna buy sylvester
stallone movie where he's justgrandpa papa, papa.
No, I saw the guy beat up arussian yeah, yeah it ain't
happening, but george foremandied last week.
Did you hear about that?
I did hear about that.
Pastor Ryan (32:24):
I love george you big boxing fan I am, uh, uh, my
dad.
Pastor Tim (32:29):
No, I'll say no because when my dad died, I quit
watching boxing, but it's oneof those things we did together,
you know, and my dad was alwaysreally good at it and I was
always really bad at boxing andum but I mean, he was like great
boxer, wasn't?
Pastor Ryan (32:45):
yeah, he was all fleet, all pacific fleet
champion that's amazing yeah Iwatch boxing like, nah, I, I
don't want no part of that.
Yeah, that fight sermon serieswith the box.
That's about as close to boxingas I ever want to get I love
george.
Pastor Tim (33:00):
They called him pastor george.
He was a.
He was a preacher.
Pastor Ryan (33:03):
It's awesome made a good.
Uh, he's the guy that came outthat grilling griddle thing too.
Pastor Tim (33:09):
That was great I yeah, and everybody now are
buying.
You can go out and get a georgeforeman grill for like 35 bucks
, but now everybody, it's gotthese big fancy ones and you
look at them you're like, that'sjust a george foreman grill,
but it says blackstone on it.
So it's's $200.
Yeah, I love that guy and it'sweird how you miss someone,
(33:34):
because when he was doing histours with his stupid grill and
all that kind of stuff, hetalked about the Lord all the
time.
Pastor Ryan (33:44):
Raised the Lord for it and the grill, because that
thing was awesome.
Pastor Tim (33:49):
I still got the big one.
Pastor Ryan (33:50):
Yeah, and the grill Cause.
That that thing was awesome.
Yeah, I still got the big one.
Yeah, that's awesome.
Yeah, our wives are going tokill us for that little detour
as I'm thinking of this.
I'm really good, I got a thingabout that.
Pastor Tim (34:01):
I miss him already.
Isn't that weird?
I haven't heard about him orfrom him for a long time and now
he's gone.
Pastor Ryan (34:07):
I miss him you know , I don't know what that says
about our human experience, butyeah, those parts like I don't
even know the guy you know, butwe feel like we're losing parts
of us when some of those iconsand heroes that we've looked up
to and followed along the years,uh, pass away.
You're like well, hold on now.
You just don't feel as whole asyou did before.
Pastor Tim (34:29):
I don't know yeah.
Pastor Ryan (34:31):
But I think in Elijah's case here you know, he,
as you said, he has seen God inall these amazing things.
Pastor Tim (34:38):
I mean all right, that was a horrible segue from
George Foreman.
Pastor Ryan (34:42):
Right back into this, right back into the
podcast.
It didn't work.
I tripped and fell on my face.
Someone's got to get us back ontrack.
But here's a guy who's seen godin all of these.
I mean, he's seen god in theweather right, don't rain.
All right, doesn't rain, rain.
Here's a storm, fire fromheaven, boom.
(35:03):
He's seen god in all of thatand I think what you're saying
is right.
I mean, he had to, and to seehim in the mundane stuff, right,
um.
I can't remember who it whosaid it first.
I don't know how long it's beenaround, but you know, someone
said god whispers because he'sclose, um, and I think I'll take
credit for that pastor timfirst said god whispers because
(35:26):
he's close.
Pastor Tim (35:28):
And that was a joke too.
Okay, Just so you know.
I don't want some guy callingme about copyright laws or
whatever.
Pastor Ryan (35:35):
Have the whole podcast shut down.
I think we need that reminder.
I think Elijah needs it.
Elijah, I got you I'm righthere, you know, and and that
call to to recommission him.
I'm not just in the spectacle,I'm not just in the— I love that
(35:56):
word right there.
Pastor Tim (35:58):
I'm not in the spectacle.
Pastor Ryan (36:00):
We're just in it because he's in it, but I'm not
just in it and we look at ourexperience, our relationship
with God, and we think it's allgoosebumps.
You know, when I come to churchand I man, the Spirit was
really moving today and the hairon the back of your neck stands
up when the band sings that onesong or that you know vocalist
(36:21):
hits that one note and you'relike, oh, spirit is in this
place.
Yeah, he's also with you atwork on Monday.
He's also with you when you'rehelping your kid do their
homework or disciplining yourkid, or when your boss is
yelling at you, he's still there.
I'm not just in the spectacle,I'm there.
(36:44):
And those are great moments andI think God loves it too, when
we have a heightened awarenessof his presence.
I think God enjoys being withus in those moments, but just as
much God says I enjoy you righthere.
Pastor Tim (36:58):
And, more than that, he enjoys you in your sorrow
when you've had that loss.
And it's just, you just don'tknow if you're going to be able
to crawl your way out.
And God encourages you and saysI'm here, you don't have to.
You don't have to reach to crawlout.
(37:19):
Right now.
Let's curl up here together andand we'll just wait this out
till we're strong enough I'lllet you know when it's time to
crawl out.
Yeah, yeah, he's a good God.
And so those deep, sad and thenscary I don't know what to do.
(37:40):
My anxiety's out of control.
Is he really going to leave us,or this test result is really
scary?
The doctor won't talk to me onthe phone.
He wants me to come in.
Those are the oh God.
And God is like I'm here.
I'm here with you.
(38:00):
It's not just in.
You know those worship songs,or when I use you to win one of
the kids to the Lord at church,or all those great things.
He's like I'm here, right here,at this time too.
Pastor Ryan (38:18):
It's a reminder that I think Elijah needed and
it's one that we need so that weremember he's I mean he
promised I will never leave younor forsake you.
David said where can I go fromyour presence?
You know, if I go to themountain, you're there.
If I'm in the valley, you'rethere.
Like everywhere, you're stillthere.
(38:40):
Where could I go to get awayfrom you?
And I think that's what God isteaching Elijah is I'm here too,
I'm right here.
And then the question to saywhat are you doing here?
You found me here, but what areyou doing here?
And that pushing him back outinto the life that God had
(39:03):
prepared for him.
Pastor Tim (39:05):
And to his in his mission, yeah, and in his
mission.
There's something that'shappening right after this.
He tells him to go anoint acouple kings, and those kings
are going to kick Baal's buttand everybody who's worshiping
Baal and that's important.
But the next thing he does ishe has to go anoint his
(39:28):
replacement, elisha.
And this whole scenario, if hesends Elijah, after he prays for
the rain to come, and the raincomes, so he's got resurrection
and magic oil pots and all thesethings under his belt, fire
(39:52):
from heaven, destroying theprophets of Baal.
That's all in his book.
Then he anoints Elisha.
Elisha looks like okay, this iswhere I've got to go from here.
I've got to go up, up, up, up,up, up up you know, and so if
that doesn't happen, I'm I'm afailure.
(40:13):
This had to happen to elijah sohe can anoint the next guy and
let him know.
This is what this looks like,and sometimes it don't turn out
the way you think it's going toturn out, and what you think is
a big win is a longer road thanyou thought.
Pastor Ryan (40:37):
That lesson is so deep and so profound.
If you're listening to thispodcast, you need to chew on
that this week, because that isoh, there is so much there.
Elisha had to know that.
You know.
(40:57):
To say again, we assume thatwhen we show up and there's 400
or 500 people at Easter serviceand the full services are packed
, man, god is here, god ismoving, um and and Tim, you and
I, we've been doing ministrytogether long enough that we
(41:19):
have.
I mean, I think one of the veryfirst things you told me when
we were starting out together isministry is always in
transition.
Right, it's always intransition.
Together's ministry is alwaysin transition.
Right, it's always intransition.
And we've seen the church growand we've seen it decline.
We've seen it doing amazing,we've seen it struggling, and
(41:45):
it's easy to think, well, god'sonly in it when things are
moving in a good direction, whenmore people are coming, and you
know all this stuff ishappening and, and I think what
god is telling elijah and elishaand us is I'm with you the
whole time.
Yeah, when the church had 220back in 2010, I was there.
(42:06):
Yeah, I was also there when thechurch had 80 people coming out
of COVID, yeah, and I'm withyou.
Now, when you show up on aSunday morning and you can't
find a parking spot and youcan't find a seat in the
auditorium, and you got to dotwo services on Easter, I'm
there too, right, I'm always.
I've always been here and Ilove what you're saying.
(42:30):
Elisha had to know he was with.
He was there at the 82 right.
He was there when things didn'tlook good.
Um, because, yeah, you look, ifit's all just up, up, up and up
, you know, up into the right,it's like where do I go right
and am I a failure if it doesn'tturn out this way?
And to see man, elijah went tothe valley and then to the
(42:54):
mountain and he was hiding andhe found God.
God hadn't left him.
You said it earlier.
God is so good, he's so good tous.
I don't want to move too muchfurther from that because I want
people to chew on that thisweek.
But any final thoughts to kindof wrap this up.
Pastor Tim (43:17):
Oh, what's the scripture?
Oh, it's in my Ministry 101class.
God's going to Tim's paraphrase.
God's going to use what youwent through so you can counsel
someone else who's going to gothrough it too.
And man, I can't believe thatverse won't come to mind.
Pastor Ryan (43:40):
I know exactly what you're talking about.
He comforts us in our comfortso that we can comfort others.
Pastor Tim (43:46):
Right, and that's so important.
That's so important and thatwas what Elijah was going to
have to train in Elisha.
And so, wherever you are,whatever you're doing, there's a
purpose for it.
The struggle that you're havingand God's only speaking in the
whisper, he's not bringing downfire for you it's because you're
(44:09):
going to have to talk aboutfaithfulness to someone else one
day who's in the same situationas you are.
So shake it off, walk that walkand make sure that you're ready
to share the hope that you havein Jesus Christ.
Pastor Ryan (44:33):
We're going to wrap it up.
Seems like you got a phone call, so let me pray for us.
Sorry, that's a good spot to endit.
Father, we thank you for thisstory.
God, I thank you for Elijah'sfaith and his confidence in you
and your ability and who you sayyou are and what you can do.
God, I'm inspired of his loveand belief that this was going
(44:58):
to make a difference for hispeople and Lord, when it doesn't
turn out the way that hethought, I'm glad he went to the
mountain to meet you.
There he sat and he waited foryou and, god, you met him right
where he's at.
You spoke to him.
It was personal and not just tocomfort him, but to commission
(45:18):
him to lead him back out intothe life that you created him to
live.
Amen, and Father, I pray thatyou do that for each of us today
and meet us where we're at, inour confusion and in our doubt,
no matter which way, when we gotto the fork in the road,
whether we went left or right.
Father, I pray that you'd meetus right there and draw us back
(45:39):
to yourself.
Let us lean in, because we knowthat you're close, to receive
that comfort and that help inour time of need, knowing that
it is for a purpose, so that wecan bring that comfort and that
help in our time of need,knowing that it is for a purpose
, so that we can bring thatcomfort and help to the people
around us.
Thank you that you're such agood God that you care for us In
Jesus' name, amen.
Amen.
Welcome (46:00):
Thanks again for joining us for this episode of
the Midweek Podcast.
We'd love to hear from you.
Let us know how God is usingthis resource in your life, or
send any podcast questions ortopic ideas to podcast at
afreshwindorg.
If you would like to supportthis ministry financially and
help us continue offering newresources that equip you to
discover more in Christ, simplytext any amount to the number
(46:23):
84321.
We're so grateful for yoursupport.
Make sure to tune in next weekfor a brand new episode of the
Midweek Podcast.
Be blessed and have a greatweek.
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