May 18, 2025 • 14 mins
Text me what you thought of the show 😊
Are you tired of being told you need eight hours of sleep—when your shift schedule makes that nearly impossible? You're not alone, and more importantly, you're not failing.
In this episode, we’re flipping traditional sleep advice on its head. With nearly 40 years of experience as both a shift worker and certified nutritionist, I reveal science-backed strategies that actually work for people who live on a 24/7 clock.
Here’s the truth: when it comes to sleep, consistency beats quantity. Discover why setting a regular wake-up time—even after just 5-6 hours of sleep—can reset your entire system, improve energy levels, and reduce long-term fatigue.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
- Why the “8-hour rule” doesn’t work for shift workers
- How a consistent wake-up time anchors your internal clock
- The dangers of medicated sleep and what no one tells you
- Strategic napping: how to turn short rests into peak performance
- Managing light exposure and caffeine to support better rest
This episode is your permission to stop chasing a sleep ideal that doesn’t fit your life—and start using methods tailored to the realities of shift work. You’ll walk away with practical tools to help you feel more rested, alert, and in control of your energy.
Stop feeling like you're failing at sleep. There is a better way—and it starts here.
Tune in now and transform your relationship with rest.
----------------------------
ANNOUNCING
"The Shift Workers Collective"
https://join.ahealthyshift.com/the-shift-workers-collective
Click the link to learn all about it
-----------------------------
YOU CAN FIND ME AT
COACHING
_____________________
Disclaimer: Roger Sutherland is not a doctor or a medical professional. Always consult a physician before implementing any strategies mentioned in this podcast. Use of this information is strictly at your own risk. Roger Sutherland will not assume any liability for direct or indirect losses or damages that may result from the use of the information contained in this podcast including but not limited to economic loss, injury, illness, or death.
_______________________
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Shift work can be brutal, but it doesn't have to
be.
Welcome to a healthy shift.
My name is Roger Sutherland,certified nutritionist, veteran
law enforcement officer and 24-7shift worker for almost four
decades.
Through this podcast, I aim toeducate shift workers, using
evidence-based methods, to notonly survive the rigours of
(00:29):
shift work, but thrive.
My goal is to empower shiftworkers to improve their health
and wellbeing so they have moreenergy to do the things they
love.
Enjoy today's show.
Well, hello there and welcomeback to a Healthy Shift podcast.
I'm Roger Sutherland, and todaywe're going to talk about you
(00:53):
got it sleep, but wait, don'tturn it off yet, because not the
usual.
You've got to get eight hoursstory.
Because if you're a shiftworker I know you've heard this
more times than you can countYou've got to get eight hours.
I can't.
And if you're anything like me,it probably makes you feel like
(01:14):
you're failing, because gettingeight hours on night shift or
after an early is nearimpossible.
But here's the good news.
Today I want to talk aboutsomething that it's not just
about how much sleep you get,but it's actually about when you
get it and how consistent thattiming is.
Hold it, don't turn off yetgoing what.
(01:37):
Would this bloke know?
How do you get consistent sleep?
You're being stupid, mate.
Wait a minute.
I've done it for 40 years.
I know how to apply it.
Let's talk about it.
Hear me out the myth of eighthours.
So let's get something totallystraight and put it on the table
here.
(01:59):
Seven to nine hours or eighthours is a general guideline,
but it's not a rule that isactually carved in stone.
That number has come fromstudies on people who live a
regular nine to five life.
Is that you?
It's absolutely not.
You're on nights, you're onearlies, you're on late.
(02:19):
Hell, we can be on all three inthe same week, can't we?
And here's the thing Hell, wecan be on all three in the same
week, can't we?
And here's the thing Chasingeight hours of sleep at any time
of day or night can literallybackfire.
And I want to explain in thispodcast how.
Because sometimes forcingyourself to stay in bed and
(02:48):
sleep for hours longer than yourbody actually needs, or trying
to sleep until noon can leaveyou feeling groggy, wired and
totally out of sync with theworld.
And do you know why?
Because you are, and it's yourown fault.
So let's talk about consistencyover quantity.
What really matters.
(03:09):
What really matters, especiallyfor shift workers, is
consistency.
Now, I know that this isdifficult with a lot of rosters
that people work these days, andthis is why, if I had my way,
I'd be rewriting rosters with aforward rotation.
It'd be a week of afternoons, aweek of days, a week of nights,
whatever, but it would beconsistent.
And if you can wake up aroundthe same time each day, your
body starts to learn thatpattern.
(03:30):
It builds a rhythm.
Even when your shifts don't,you can still build a rhythm.
And if you want bonus points,if you can go to bed around the
same time as well, even better.
But waking up, waking up.
I'll say it again, waking up ata consistent time is the real
(03:52):
anchor.
This is the game changer.
Let's just say you work nightsand you finish your shift and
you get home around 7am andinstead of trying to sleep for
eight straight hours and wakingup groggy at 3pm, what if you
aim for 5 hours and then youwake up at 1pm, 5-6 hours, and
(04:13):
you gave yourself some sunlight,some movement, got some food
before your next shift?
It sounds counterintuitive,doesn't it?
But for a lot of shift workers,this actually feels better.
You're not chasing a number.
You're building a routine.
Think about it.
A lot of people, because theybelieve they need to get eight
(04:35):
hours sleep, get home from nightshift and take medications to
try and sleep that eight hours,to try and sleep that eight
hours.
But here's a tip for you andhere's the news Medicated sleep
is actually not sleep and thisis why you feel so off.
And this is why, if you have alook at the people at work, at
(05:02):
your work, who get medicatedsleep and go I slept for eight
hours on my rest of it lastnight you will notice that they
are actually the ones that areso tired on night shift and they
say, oh, I need to takemedication because I'm so tired.
Sweetheart, the medication iswhat's making you tired, because
you're not actually getting anysleep.
You are unconscious, becausemedicated sleep is not sleep.
(05:25):
You're unconscious.
Your body is not going throughnormal cycles, so it's really,
really difficult.
Now, why does this work?
Because your body craves rhythm.
This doesn't mean it needseight perfect hours.
It just needs to know what'scoming next, sleeping at
(05:46):
different times every day andyour brain never knows.
When should I wind down?
When do I turn this off?
When do I turn that on?
What do I do?
How come I'm getting light whenI should be sleeping?
What's going on?
I don't know whether to releasethis hormone or that one.
You are actually literallyconfusing it.
But if you wake up at the sametime even if you only slept for
(06:07):
five or six hours and your bodystarts to trust this cycle, it
gets better at falling asleep,it gets better at waking up and
it gets better at functioningwith everything in between.
It literally makes sense,doesn't it?
When you think about it.
We thrive on rhythm, and what Itell people is my new strategy
(06:29):
around night shift is just go tobed to sleep.
Don't put pressure on yourselfas to how long, and when you
wake up, just get up, becauseyou've just napped and washed
away the sleep pressure.
So get up, get out in the light, take yourself for a walk, take
the dog for a walk, do whateveryou got to do.
Just get some exercise, somemovement out in the daylight.
Have another nap before you goto bed Makes it easy.
(06:52):
Get into night shift, get outof night shift.
Don't live in night shift.
Get into it, get out of it asquickly as you can possibly do.
So right, let's have a talkabout how we can make practical
tips to build some form ofconsistency, and let's break it
down into a few simple tips.
Pick a consistent wake-up time,even if it varies slightly
(07:12):
because of the shift type.
If you keep it within aone-hour window, your body will
love you and it will thrive,trust me.
The second tip is the mostimportant of them.
All you ready?
Let go of the eight-hourpressure to sleep.
Just let it go.
Just sleep until the sleeppressure's gone.
(07:32):
You are a shift worker.
It's different for you.
Instead, just start tracking orfeeling how well rested you
feel over time.
Is your energy steady?
Are you waking up before youralarm?
Because that's your bodytelling you this works.
The next tip, number threedon't lie in bed too long.
(07:52):
If you wake up, naturally afterfive to six hours, don't try
and go back to sleep.
You've already woken up.
You're only going to getfrustrated trying to go back to
sleep.
Get up, open the blinds, getmoving and just enjoy those
extra hours of your day, becauseyou will then come out of your
night shift better and you willsurvive so much better on those
(08:13):
days off.
You will recover really well.
Number four tip, number fournapping is your superpower as a
shift worker and I don't want tohear oh no, I can't nap,
because if I nap I actually wakeup worse.
Well, the reason why you can'tnap because you wake up worse is
because you're not actuallynapping, you're sleeping.
(08:35):
What's the difference?
Rog massage, short naps ofbetween 15 and 25 minutes or a
full cycle nap of 90 minutesbefore or after a shift can
actually help to top you up.
So what about if we came out ofour night shift, got home, had
a slight carbohydrate andprotein meal and then we said
(08:58):
I'm just going to nap, get intobed, do two cycles of 90 minutes
, sleep for three hours, get up,go for a walk and then later in
the afternoon before you goback to work, put your head down
again for another 90 minutes,or even 25, release that sleep
pressure and then go to work,because a lot of people are only
doing a few nights.
I used to do seven, but a lotof people are only doing a few
(09:20):
nights a night.
So don't try and shift into andsleep right through between two
nights.
Get up, get that daylight, keepyour body in sync with the
normal daylight and you will getinto and come out of that night
shift so much better, and Imean so much better.
Napping is your superpower.
15 to 25 minutes is all youneed.
(09:41):
If you are so tired you feellike you need to sleep or nap,
set an alarm clock for 25minutes, release that pressure
and get going again, and it willmake such a huge difference to
you.
Become the master napper.
Number five is you've got towatch your caffeine and your
light exposure.
You've got to keep caffeineusers smart.
(10:02):
Caffeine is a great tool for ashift worker to use to get them
going and get up and about, butit's also incredibly detrimental
when you already have disruptedcircadian rhythms and you're
putting caffeine into yoursystem to stay awake because
you're blocking those adenosinereceptors and you're not going
to sleep.
Now you might think, no, I goto sleep, no problems.
(10:23):
You've slammed two monstersovernight.
But the problem is you're notgetting that deep, restorative
sleep and if you do happen towake up because you've got to go
and pee or do something likethat, you won't go back to sleep
because there's no sleeppressure for you to go back to
sleep.
And that's the problem.
Wear sunglasses, blue lightblocking glasses on the way home
(10:44):
after night shift to help youto start to wind down.
Try and start to wind down.
Go through that karma music.
Get in the car, drive sedatelyhome.
Just take it easy and wind downto get home so that you do
sleep and sleep properly.
Don't even put an expectationon you as to how long you sleep.
And then, when you do wake up,don't get angry.
Oh, I didn't get eight hours.
(11:05):
Who said you got to Think aboutit?
Who said you've got to?
I know all the research says so, but that's not for shift
workers, and this is thedifference, and here's what I
want you to remember.
I really, really want to drillthis in Stop chasing the number,
start chasing a rhythm, somesort of rhythm.
With the time that you get up,you can look at your roster and
(11:27):
you can start chasing thatrhythm, because eight hours of
broken, inconsistent sleep won'tserve you better than five or
six hours done consistently,with intention.
Trust me on that.
It's not about perfection.
It's about what works for youand your roster, your body and
your life.
Let go of the eight hours andstart focusing on the
(11:49):
consistency.
So if you're listening to thisand you're thinking, you know
what that actually makes sense,but I'm still struggling to
figure this out.
Do you think you're alone?
You are not, and that's exactlywhy I created the Shift Workers
Collective.
Yep, it's a supportivecommunity of people just like
(12:10):
you navigating this ridiculouslyunique lifestyle and learning
real strategies that absolutelywork.
In the Shift Workers Collective, I talk about sleep, nutrition,
recovery and everything elsethat matters when your world
runs on a 24-7 clock.
You don't have to figure thisout alone anymore.
(12:31):
I'm here.
We're here to help you to gofrom just surviving shift work
to actually thriving in it.
Thanks again for tuning into aHealthy Shift podcast.
It's really important that youkeep this in mind, and if you
would like to learn more aboutthe Shift Workers Collective,
there's a link to it in the shownotes.
(12:52):
No obligation, just go and havea look, see what it's about and
feel free to reach out andmessage me and ask me about it.
It's really important.
Thanks again for tuning in.
I'll catch you next time.
Thank you for listening.
If you enjoyed this episode, besure to subscribe so you get
notified whenever a new episodeis released.
(13:13):
It would also be ever sohelpful if you could leave a
rating and review on the appyou're currently listening on.
If you want to know more aboutme or work with me.
You can go to ahealthyshiftcom.
I'll catch you on the next one.
Shift work can be brutal, but it doesn't have to
be.
Welcome to a healthy shift.
My name is Roger Sutherland,certified nutritionist, veteran
law enforcement officer and 24-7shift worker for almost four
decades.
Through this podcast, I aim toeducate shift workers, using
evidence-based methods, to notonly survive the rigours of
(00:29):
shift work, but thrive.
My goal is to empower shiftworkers to improve their health
and wellbeing so they have moreenergy to do the things they
love.
Enjoy today's show.
Well, hello there and welcomeback to a Healthy Shift podcast.
I'm Roger Sutherland, and todaywe're going to talk about you
(00:53):
got it sleep, but wait, don'tturn it off yet, because not the
usual.
You've got to get eight hoursstory.
Because if you're a shiftworker I know you've heard this
more times than you can countYou've got to get eight hours.
I can't.
And if you're anything like me,it probably makes you feel like
(01:14):
you're failing, because gettingeight hours on night shift or
after an early is nearimpossible.
But here's the good news.
Today I want to talk aboutsomething that it's not just
about how much sleep you get,but it's actually about when you
get it and how consistent thattiming is.
Hold it, don't turn off yetgoing what.
(01:37):
Would this bloke know?
How do you get consistent sleep?
You're being stupid, mate.
Wait a minute.
I've done it for 40 years.
I know how to apply it.
Let's talk about it.
Hear me out the myth of eighthours.
So let's get something totallystraight and put it on the table
here.
(01:59):
Seven to nine hours or eighthours is a general guideline,
but it's not a rule that isactually carved in stone.
That number has come fromstudies on people who live a
regular nine to five life.
Is that you?
It's absolutely not.
You're on nights, you're onearlies, you're on late.
(02:19):
Hell, we can be on all three inthe same week, can't we?
And here's the thing Hell, wecan be on all three in the same
week, can't we?
And here's the thing Chasingeight hours of sleep at any time
of day or night can literallybackfire.
And I want to explain in thispodcast how.
Because sometimes forcingyourself to stay in bed and
(02:48):
sleep for hours longer than yourbody actually needs, or trying
to sleep until noon can leaveyou feeling groggy, wired and
totally out of sync with theworld.
And do you know why?
Because you are, and it's yourown fault.
So let's talk about consistencyover quantity.
What really matters.
(03:09):
What really matters, especiallyfor shift workers, is
consistency.
Now, I know that this isdifficult with a lot of rosters
that people work these days, andthis is why, if I had my way,
I'd be rewriting rosters with aforward rotation.
It'd be a week of afternoons, aweek of days, a week of nights,
whatever, but it would beconsistent.
And if you can wake up aroundthe same time each day, your
body starts to learn thatpattern.
(03:30):
It builds a rhythm.
Even when your shifts don't,you can still build a rhythm.
And if you want bonus points,if you can go to bed around the
same time as well, even better.
But waking up, waking up.
I'll say it again, waking up ata consistent time is the real
(03:52):
anchor.
This is the game changer.
Let's just say you work nightsand you finish your shift and
you get home around 7am andinstead of trying to sleep for
eight straight hours and wakingup groggy at 3pm, what if you
aim for 5 hours and then youwake up at 1pm, 5-6 hours, and
(04:13):
you gave yourself some sunlight,some movement, got some food
before your next shift?
It sounds counterintuitive,doesn't it?
But for a lot of shift workers,this actually feels better.
You're not chasing a number.
You're building a routine.
Think about it.
A lot of people, because theybelieve they need to get eight
(04:35):
hours sleep, get home from nightshift and take medications to
try and sleep that eight hours,to try and sleep that eight
hours.
But here's a tip for you andhere's the news Medicated sleep
is actually not sleep and thisis why you feel so off.
And this is why, if you have alook at the people at work, at
(05:02):
your work, who get medicatedsleep and go I slept for eight
hours on my rest of it lastnight you will notice that they
are actually the ones that areso tired on night shift and they
say, oh, I need to takemedication because I'm so tired.
Sweetheart, the medication iswhat's making you tired, because
you're not actually getting anysleep.
You are unconscious, becausemedicated sleep is not sleep.
(05:25):
You're unconscious.
Your body is not going throughnormal cycles, so it's really,
really difficult.
Now, why does this work?
Because your body craves rhythm.
This doesn't mean it needseight perfect hours.
It just needs to know what'scoming next, sleeping at
(05:46):
different times every day andyour brain never knows.
When should I wind down?
When do I turn this off?
When do I turn that on?
What do I do?
How come I'm getting light whenI should be sleeping?
What's going on?
I don't know whether to releasethis hormone or that one.
You are actually literallyconfusing it.
But if you wake up at the sametime even if you only slept for
(06:07):
five or six hours and your bodystarts to trust this cycle, it
gets better at falling asleep,it gets better at waking up and
it gets better at functioningwith everything in between.
It literally makes sense,doesn't it?
When you think about it.
We thrive on rhythm, and what Itell people is my new strategy
(06:29):
around night shift is just go tobed to sleep.
Don't put pressure on yourselfas to how long, and when you
wake up, just get up, becauseyou've just napped and washed
away the sleep pressure.
So get up, get out in the light, take yourself for a walk, take
the dog for a walk, do whateveryou got to do.
Just get some exercise, somemovement out in the daylight.
Have another nap before you goto bed Makes it easy.
(06:52):
Get into night shift, get outof night shift.
Don't live in night shift.
Get into it, get out of it asquickly as you can possibly do.
So right, let's have a talkabout how we can make practical
tips to build some form ofconsistency, and let's break it
down into a few simple tips.
Pick a consistent wake-up time,even if it varies slightly
(07:12):
because of the shift type.
If you keep it within aone-hour window, your body will
love you and it will thrive,trust me.
The second tip is the mostimportant of them.
All you ready?
Let go of the eight-hourpressure to sleep.
Just let it go.
Just sleep until the sleeppressure's gone.
(07:32):
You are a shift worker.
It's different for you.
Instead, just start tracking orfeeling how well rested you
feel over time.
Is your energy steady?
Are you waking up before youralarm?
Because that's your bodytelling you this works.
The next tip, number threedon't lie in bed too long.
(07:52):
If you wake up, naturally afterfive to six hours, don't try
and go back to sleep.
You've already woken up.
You're only going to getfrustrated trying to go back to
sleep.
Get up, open the blinds, getmoving and just enjoy those
extra hours of your day, becauseyou will then come out of your
night shift better and you willsurvive so much better on those
(08:13):
days off.
You will recover really well.
Number four tip, number fournapping is your superpower as a
shift worker and I don't want tohear oh no, I can't nap,
because if I nap I actually wakeup worse.
Well, the reason why you can'tnap because you wake up worse is
because you're not actuallynapping, you're sleeping.
(08:35):
What's the difference?
Rog massage, short naps ofbetween 15 and 25 minutes or a
full cycle nap of 90 minutesbefore or after a shift can
actually help to top you up.
So what about if we came out ofour night shift, got home, had
a slight carbohydrate andprotein meal and then we said
(08:58):
I'm just going to nap, get intobed, do two cycles of 90 minutes
, sleep for three hours, get up,go for a walk and then later in
the afternoon before you goback to work, put your head down
again for another 90 minutes,or even 25, release that sleep
pressure and then go to work,because a lot of people are only
doing a few nights.
I used to do seven, but a lotof people are only doing a few
(09:20):
nights a night.
So don't try and shift into andsleep right through between two
nights.
Get up, get that daylight, keepyour body in sync with the
normal daylight and you will getinto and come out of that night
shift so much better, and Imean so much better.
Napping is your superpower.
15 to 25 minutes is all youneed.
(09:41):
If you are so tired you feellike you need to sleep or nap,
set an alarm clock for 25minutes, release that pressure
and get going again, and it willmake such a huge difference to
you.
Become the master napper.
Number five is you've got towatch your caffeine and your
light exposure.
You've got to keep caffeineusers smart.
(10:02):
Caffeine is a great tool for ashift worker to use to get them
going and get up and about, butit's also incredibly detrimental
when you already have disruptedcircadian rhythms and you're
putting caffeine into yoursystem to stay awake because
you're blocking those adenosinereceptors and you're not going
to sleep.
Now you might think, no, I goto sleep, no problems.
(10:23):
You've slammed two monstersovernight.
But the problem is you're notgetting that deep, restorative
sleep and if you do happen towake up because you've got to go
and pee or do something likethat, you won't go back to sleep
because there's no sleeppressure for you to go back to
sleep.
And that's the problem.
Wear sunglasses, blue lightblocking glasses on the way home
(10:44):
after night shift to help youto start to wind down.
Try and start to wind down.
Go through that karma music.
Get in the car, drive sedatelyhome.
Just take it easy and wind downto get home so that you do
sleep and sleep properly.
Don't even put an expectationon you as to how long you sleep.
And then, when you do wake up,don't get angry.
Oh, I didn't get eight hours.
(11:05):
Who said you got to Think aboutit?
Who said you've got to?
I know all the research says so, but that's not for shift
workers, and this is thedifference, and here's what I
want you to remember.
I really, really want to drillthis in Stop chasing the number,
start chasing a rhythm, somesort of rhythm.
With the time that you get up,you can look at your roster and
(11:27):
you can start chasing thatrhythm, because eight hours of
broken, inconsistent sleep won'tserve you better than five or
six hours done consistently,with intention.
Trust me on that.
It's not about perfection.
It's about what works for youand your roster, your body and
your life.
Let go of the eight hours andstart focusing on the
(11:49):
consistency.
So if you're listening to thisand you're thinking, you know
what that actually makes sense,but I'm still struggling to
figure this out.
Do you think you're alone?
You are not, and that's exactlywhy I created the Shift Workers
Collective.
Yep, it's a supportivecommunity of people just like
(12:10):
you navigating this ridiculouslyunique lifestyle and learning
real strategies that absolutelywork.
In the Shift Workers Collective, I talk about sleep, nutrition,
recovery and everything elsethat matters when your world
runs on a 24-7 clock.
You don't have to figure thisout alone anymore.
(12:31):
I'm here.
We're here to help you to gofrom just surviving shift work
to actually thriving in it.
Thanks again for tuning into aHealthy Shift podcast.
It's really important that youkeep this in mind, and if you
would like to learn more aboutthe Shift Workers Collective,
there's a link to it in the shownotes.
(12:52):
No obligation, just go and havea look, see what it's about and
feel free to reach out andmessage me and ask me about it.
It's really important.
Thanks again for tuning in.
I'll catch you next time.
Thank you for listening.
If you enjoyed this episode, besure to subscribe so you get
notified whenever a new episodeis released.
(13:13):
It would also be ever sohelpful if you could leave a
rating and review on the appyou're currently listening on.
If you want to know more aboutme or work with me.
You can go to ahealthyshiftcom.
I'll catch you on the next one.
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