July 23, 2025 • 40 mins
Text me what you thought of the show 😊
I'm back on Australia Overnight after a bit of a break — and this time, we’re diving deep into some uncomfortable truths about what’s really happening on our streets and inside our justice system.
As a former frontline police officer and now health coach for shift workers, I’ve seen firsthand how things have changed — and not for the better. In this episode, I share some real talk about the rise in crime, the frustration felt by officers, and why our current legal system is letting everyone down.
Here's What I Talked About:
- How changing immigration patterns might be influencing crime rates
- Why police are feeling powerless and unsupported when it comes to repeat offenders
- The limitations facing magistrates and judges, and how the laws are failing them too
- Why I believe youth crime is tied to a lack of self-respect and fear of consequences
- What we could learn from the Singapore model and its zero-tolerance approach
- Whether democracy is actually capable of delivering the legal reforms we desperately need
- And as always — I threw in a winter wellbeing tip: Why most of us need vitamin D supplements this time of year
Why Listen:
If you care about the future of policing, community safety, youth behaviour, or just want to understand the challenges frontline workers are facing — this one’s for you.
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ANNOUNCING
"The Shift Workers Collective"
https://join.ahealthyshift.com/the-shift-workers-collective
Click the link to learn all about it
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YOU CAN FIND ME AT
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Disclaimer: Roger Sutherland is not a doctor or a medical professional. Always consult a physician before implementing any strategies mentioned in this podcast. Use of this information is strictly at your own risk. Roger Sutherland will not assume any liability for direct or indirect losses or damages that may result from the use of the information contained in this podcast including but not limited to economic loss, injury, illness, or death.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Here we night shift.
It's the night shift I thinkmany of you know and remember.
We haven't seen him for a longtime, don't know where he's been
, roger Sutherland, and we talkall things night shift, things
that happen in the middle of thenight, things that go quirky.
The one and only young, anneJackson, is working.
The other side of the glass,roger, good morning to you.
(00:21):
Good morning to you, tony.
How are you Well, I've beensensationally well and happy and
smiling, and it's a joy to seeyou back in the studios here of
Australia Overnight.
There are much we can talkabout, but I want to talk to you
very shortly too, about thisseminar experience on which
you've been working, which willbe fascinating.
(00:41):
During the news, you and I gotfired up, as we tend to do,
about the state of the nation.
I made the point.
You can't say as much as I can,but I make the point is that we
still have this situationpretty much right throughout
Australia, where people arecertainly concerned about the
lawlessness that seems to bemore and more prevalent as we
(01:03):
move through this year.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Now I communicate with a lot of policing agencies
and police members worldwide.
It's not just nationwide, it'sworldwide, and the UK are on
their loose.
Speaker 5 (01:14):
What do?
Speaker 6 (01:14):
they say is driving it.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Well, I don't know whether I'm even allowed to say
what my thoughts are.
Where do you start?
Feel free to give your thoughts.
Immigration I think theimmigration is a massive problem
.
That's where I think it starts.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
So somebody talked about this earlier in the week
it might have been last week inthe program Yep, on the basis
that, if that is the case, howdo we manage that?
This is because the worldpopulation, presumably, is
growing.
We've got this situation wherethere is conflict in other parts
of the world, people are tryingto escape it.
They're going into otherregions right throughout Europe.
(01:52):
It's a major issue.
What is the solution?
Is there one?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
I don't know.
But I do know one thing that ifpeople are going to come into
the country and live in acountry whether it be Sweden,
denmark, whether it's Australia,whether it's the US you've got
to live and perform with theircustom and you need to adopt
that, because if you want to getaway from that mess that you've
(02:17):
come from, then you need tocome in and you need to live
according to our custom here.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
But how do you get people to do that?
I don't want to just be thedevil's advocate here for a
moment.
How do you get people to dothat?
So somebody arrives into thisgreat nation and you look them
down the eye and say now you'vegot to behave in a certain way
as an Australian.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Okay, so what about if I went to the Middle East and
I was to, and we know thatthere's certain countries that
if you are a female and you'rewearing like a singlet top and
shorts and you go into thatcountry, you're not going to
survive?
How are they going to treat you?
They're going to treat you verypoorly and, in fact, the impact
(02:59):
that that has is massive on youbecause they're going to take
it as far as they can possiblytake it.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Yeah, but we know Australian people do that.
They go to Indonesia, they goto Bali, they go to various
parts of Taking drugs and thingslike that and take drugs and
behave appallingly in bars.
Yes, and they do, and they go.
I've got this right.
I can wear a T-shirt.
I can wear a dumbass cap if Iwant to and they get punished,
don't they?
Speaker 2 (03:21):
by the law of that country.
But here it doesn't happen.
Now, I personally feel it sendsthe wrong message when we have
the leader of the state that isactually out there handing the
keys to an apartment to somebodywho hasn't been here that long,
when we are in trouble in therest of the state.
The leader of this state has tobe putting the laws and
(03:46):
starting to put bills ofparliament through to support
the police and the magistratesand the justice and sort that
problem out.
There has to be a law and thelaw has to be enforced.
Yeah, so it's got to come fromthe police.
It's got to come from.
It has to come.
It's not the police's fault.
I don't care what anyone saysand I know I've done 40 years in
(04:07):
the cops but it's not thepolice's fault, because I'm
talking to police all the time.
It is unbelievably frustratingfor them.
You've got to remember they'reaway from their families,
they're away from their lovedones all the time working on
these cases, putting thesebriefs of evidence together and
going to court for absolutely noresult at all, and that's
(04:29):
because of the lack of well.
The Justice Department don'tactually have the tools to use
to be able to support the policein what they're doing.
In the meantime, marriages arebreaking down a lot.
I know it's a choice, thepolice are making those choices
to do those things.
But I can tell you now it'sgetting very thin in the thin
blue line because they hadenough.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Very thin.
In the thin blue line there'syour quote of the morning.
I do love that.
1-336-93.
Come and have your say Anythingyou'd like to raise on the
program.
Roger, as you know, is aspecialist very for a long time
now, since retirement of thepolice force, looking at the
ideas around night shift andshift workers in particular.
You know who you are.
You might want to jump.
If you have a question orthought or an idea, share your
(05:12):
experience.
1-double-3-6-9-3.
Arty Karate, morning.
Speaker 7 (05:18):
Good morning Tony Mack and Roger and Action
Jackson.
Now, roger, the weather seemsit is cold, it is winter,
affecting my sleep pattern in away, and the vitamin D tablets
are going up and down in pricesbetween Woolies Coles.
Any suggestions where they're areasonable price?
Sometimes they're $10 and thenthey jump up to double the price
(05:41):
.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Do they really?
I haven't noticed that.
I always get mine from ChemistWarehouse, believe it or not,
and I tend to find that theSwiss brand and I'm not
promoting anything.
I'm certainly not sponsored byanybody at all but I tend to
find vitamin D is vitamin D, nomatter where you actually get it
from or what labels on it.
(06:02):
It's all very, very similarstuff.
So it's just a matter ofhunting around and finding the
cheapest that you can.
Please make sure that you keeptaking it, and I'd be taking
probably 2000 iu or two of thoselittle pills every day at the
moment because you can't getvitamin d from the sun at all at
this time of the year here inmelbourne yeah, it is pretty
(06:23):
dark and the shorter days andeverything, but yeah, I'll just
keep hunting.
Speaker 7 (06:27):
I guess they're the ones I'd use, too Swiss.
But they're jumping aroundprice.
One moment they'll have themfor $9.95, then they're about
$18.95.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Holy dooly, that is a massive difference, arthur,
thank you for that.
You say you can't get anysunshine this time of the year.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
No, you can get sunshine, you can't get vitamin
D from the sun Because the sun'stoo low in the sky.
Aha, it's got to be above 30degrees above the horizon and
it's not at the moment.
It's lower than 30 degrees.
So even if you sit out in thesun at the moment now don't get
me wrong here, I want to,because you're getting the
ultraviolet, the infrared,you're getting all of the
(07:03):
colours in that spectrum of sunhitting you, but your body can't
synthesise vitamin D from thesun at this time of the year.
At the moment.
We are in a window where youcan't synthesise it.
It's got to be above 30 degreesabove the horizon and that will
be.
I'll tell you when the next dayis.
Get out the compass.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Get out the old compass.
Is it more than 30 degrees?
Speaker 2 (07:24):
No, I'll tell you If we move on.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
I'll come back to you and I'll tell you All right,
let's take a couple of thesecalls in.
Whereabee, michael, come andjoin us.
Hello, yes, Michael, go ahead.
Speaker 8 (07:40):
About what you're talking about.
Like you know, I know in thenumbers there you know of the
crime a bit, a fair bit.
It was really bad like rapesand whatever assaults and
murders and they brought it downquite a fair bit.
But I think here now what we'vegot, like what I'm watching on
the news, it's a societybreakdown Like, even like in
Northern Territory, aliceSprings.
(08:02):
There it seems to be gettingworse and I just looked up
Native American Indians there.
They've got like double thecrime rate there too.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (08:12):
So it's a lot of culture thing, and now it's
coming to the cities.
I don't know what's going on.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
It's an interesting dilemma really about Michael.
Thank you very much for thatcall.
When you talk about the variousregions around Australia and
what is, is there a heightenedlevel of dissatisfaction with
people, with particularlyyounger people?
Are they disenfranchised to thepoint that they then think it's
okay to get, without going intotoo much detail, loading up a
(08:43):
car a stolen car with vodka andweapons and getting on the P155,
creating chaos, putting otherlives their lives and other
lives in danger and that ofpolice officers and others?
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Everybody.
It's a massive problem.
I'm just going to come out andsay it, but it's literally
consequences.
There is no consequence for theaction.
There's no consequence fordoing the right thing today.
There's no consequence for doingthe wrong thing, but the laws
say you can't do those things,so surely they do so now.
I saw a comment today on one ofthe social media posts and I
(09:18):
thought it was interesting.
Is the Premier now going tocome out, on the back of
everything that happened in IGAyesterday?
Yep, Is the Premier now goingto come out and ban armed
robberies or shops from armedrobberies?
I mean, she's banned samuraiswords, but they're still
carrying them.
Or machetes, yeah, they'restill carrying them.
So what are we going to do?
Ban armed robberies?
Oh wait, hang on.
The Crimes Act actually tellsus that armed robberies are
(09:40):
banned.
What armed robberies are banned?
What's the problem?
How do we solve that problem?
Speaker 1 (09:44):
That's the issue.
133693.
We'll do this break.
Come back, those calls that arewaiting.
I promise you we won't be long.
133693.
It is Australia Overnight.
We'll get to these calls injust a moment.
During the break on AustraliaOvernight, roger Sutherland and
I, from A Healthy Shift, weremaking the point that the level
of disengagement or frustrationI think is ingrained in,
(10:08):
certainly you would imagine, inproceedings in various courts
right around Australia.
You would imagine there wouldbe officers young, senior that
are also feeling the angst andpain of dissatisfaction with
what they do every day, everyday, and they're having massive
problems with it.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
There's text here and I just want to broadly cover it
.
People are blaming the judgesfor releasing it.
You're wrong.
It's not the judges ormagistrates that are releasing
them on bail.
It's the law that's releasingthem on bail.
The law is written byparliamentarians, by politicians
.
They're the ones that have gotto sit there make decisions,
(10:48):
they vote the bill in, the billcomes in and then the
magistrates all party becausethey can actually then deal with
the crisis that they've got infront of them.
But they can only work and thepolice can only work within the
law and that's all they can do.
What you think looks right andfeels right doesn't mean that it
is actually what is the law.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
And we've said often on this program, you and I don't
sit through every single trialand we don't hear the evidences
presented to his or her honour.
Mick in South Melbourne.
Hello, yes, hello, Morning Mick.
Speaker 6 (11:26):
Hello, further to what you're saying, I think we
have to own the problem forstarters and stop just
pretending it's a certain waywhen it isn't, but just
basically throwing people offthe pier.
I think groups, we've got tolook after our own Melbourne,
our suburbs, whether it's youand me getting together because
(11:47):
our society's going down.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
I don't agree with the vigilante style.
Is that what you're referringto?
Yeah, I know what you mean.
I can understand it though,mick, make no bones about it.
I can totally understand it.
Like people have absolutely hada gutful, they've had enough.
They're watching it all thetime.
You follow certain people onsocial media and things like
(12:10):
that, you tend to see it all thetime and it causes massive
problems and it impacts on ourmental health.
There's a simple solution is toturn it off, but I was driving-
Turn off the social media.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
You mean?
Yep?
So the mere fact that we'rehaving a conversation about it
now on air, would you go?
We shouldn't even be talkingabout it.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Well, it does impact on people all the time when we
do, but we do need to discuss itbecause it's a problem.
What I want to hear from I wantto hear someone one of these
callers ring up and tell us howto solve the problem.
Someone tell us how, if you'vegot the Chief Commissioner of
Police and Jacinta Allen, thePremier sitting there.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Again we're talking about Victoria.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Sorry, we're talking about Victoria, but if you've
got your leader of the police,let's just say we're going to
have In each state.
No, we're going to do itnational.
We're going to have a nationalinquiry.
We're going to put everybodythere and you have the floor.
What's?
Speaker 1 (13:04):
your solution to it, but the issues are very
different in Northern Territoryto they are in Brunswick, are
they not?
Speaker 5 (13:13):
I'm just putting that out there, I don't know, are
they?
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Yeah, probably Good on you, Mick.
Thank you In Coolaroo, Bobby,say hello to Roger.
Speaker 10 (13:21):
Good morning guys.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Morning Bob.
Speaker 10 (13:27):
I was just listening to the start of your
conversation.
The whole trouble is that thereare not enough reinforcements.
That is to say, you can go andbash somebody, you can go and
rob somebody and the first thingyou're going to hear is oh,
that poor person.
He had a deprived childhood.
(13:48):
No wonder he's doing all thesesorts of things because he
hasn't been brought up withhaving some responsibility for
the rest of society as well ashimself.
He goes to jail and the jail'snice and warm and comfortable at
this time of year.
He's not suffering a lot.
(14:09):
There'll be a lot of criminalsout there who'll say I can do
jail time on my ear.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Yeah, and that's so true.
Speaker 10 (14:16):
And that's where it's wrong.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Again no consequence is it.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Yeah well, it feels like there is no consequence.
Speaker 5 (14:23):
Well it does.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
The consequences are in the courts and the courts are
not in a position to reallybring the proverbial out, but
unfortunately the public see theend result in court because
that's the end of the line,isn't it?
When you think about it?
Like the crime is committed,there's victims.
I think one of the biggestconcerns that the public has
today is it feels like the needsof the offender are being put
(14:47):
before the needs of the victimbecause that's what the law
dictates.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
That correct.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
But that's how the public feel.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Well, they do.
But but is that because theyhave a lot?
We many have a lack ofunderstanding of the law.
Yes, we don't like it.
I've been saying for a longtime we don't like it.
We then need politicianselected into our parliament who
are prepared toVictim-orientated, shift those
laws forward to where it's moreacceptable to people more
palatable to people At point,quick at point, quick hello,
(15:15):
Neil.
Speaker 9 (15:16):
G'day Tom, how's it going?
Well, thank you what do youwant to say yeah, look, I think,
being at the immigration andpeople are coming here from
overseas, I think it goes backto the culture that they're
coming from.
A lot of them come fromwar-torn countries and all this
that's going on and they justdon't have any values for
(15:41):
discipline or anything, becausethey've had to fight their way
all their lives, kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Cultural in that sense.
So, Neil, we've just got areally bad line there.
So thank you for making thatpoint, but a lot of these young
people to whom I think theyrefer are actually born here
anyway.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
That's true too, and I think you've raised this point
, and I think it's a valid oneas well.
You raised this quite some timeago.
Have they got respect forthemselves?
Yeah, a lack of self-respect.
Respect for themselves yeah, alack of self-respect.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Lack of self-respect.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Do they have any self ?
Is there any self-respect?
Speaker 5 (16:13):
Like what makes you do that?
That I can't answer.
I know.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
What makes you do that.
Maybe other people would have asense of that or what was
important to us as young peoplein Australia post-war?
Yeah, we knew and we werelittle, obviously, but there are
people who would rememberpost-war and those very
challenging times post-war.
Did that unite us in a way thatmakes us feel it was special at
(16:36):
that time?
It was tough, it was hard, itwas grindy to make it work.
Now those conditions no longerreally apply.
Times have changed, yes.
Conditions no longer reallyapply.
Times have changed, yes, and Ijust wonder whether that
connection is no longer what itonce was, certainly post-World
War.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
II yeah, because people are not pulling together,
whereas when we have a majorincident, everyone pulls
together, don't they?
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Where are we going?
Action Jackson, we're going toPeter in Port Melbourne.
Hello, Hi Pete.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Hi guys, good morning .
How are you Well, go ahead.
Yeah, can I have a quick chatabout this youth crime everyone
keeps on bragging about?
I think it's the fact that whenI was a bit younger I never
knew the most important thingwas the education side for these
young offenders.
For these young offenders, thefact that these guys have got no
(17:31):
prospects are going forward.
Probably they're gettingsuppressed on what they can
achieve, they're not getting anyhelp and they're being put down
for a lot of society's problemsand blaming them for everything
.
And the fact that when youtalked about the cops sometimes
it's not their fault that11-year-old girl that was locked
(17:54):
up in the Northern Territoryfor two days and one night with
no supervision that goes a longway for me to trust the copper
back up in the NorthernTerritory for an 11-year-olds.
That's something that noteveryone's going to forget, tony
.
Not everyone's going to forgetTony.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Those issues in the northern territory and far north
Queensland and far north of thestate of Western Australia they
are challenging and they'redifferent again.
Speaker 5 (18:21):
Incredibly challenging.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
And it's probably a little different to some of the
issues that we're experiencingin Melbourne or Adelaide or
Sydney.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
It is, it's not even I don't think you can liken it.
No, because there's all sortsof issues Of coach police in
remote areas unbelievablychallenging, Chris in Brodie hi.
Speaker 5 (18:45):
Hi Peter and Tony Mack.
I first of all think people whocome from abroad don't know how
to assimilate with our culture,our democracy.
But I did send the Premier anemail.
I got the protocol through acall to State Parliament after
the Sunday night episode, whichcoincidentally, I was at the job
(19:06):
site, but I didn't actuallyknow anything until it was going
down.
But I said, maybe with the lackof numbers here in the State
District abroad, but the policeprobably need some help as a
one-off under a state ofemergency with the Reserve Army.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Well, a lot of people have said that, but then it's
not something that's palatableto many?
Speaker 2 (19:27):
No, it's not.
Do you remember through COVID?
I remember through COVID, whenpolice were out walking,
particularly in certain areas,police were walking with
military members walking alongchecking face masks and that,
like honestly, it left me reallyfeeling yuck, to say the least.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
That was more predominant, though, in Victoria
than anywhere else, wasn't ityes?
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Oh, but I was walking the Maribyrnong River.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
I don't think people walking around the Swan were
necessarily in that situation inWA.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
No, but we were in a real bad way here, but anyway,
but yeah, no, I don't agree withthe military People in Victoria
, melbourne, in Melbourne asopposed to Victoria.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yep, what hard done by.
No, not hard done by, but thereis a sentiment in Victoria that
would suggest they were worse.
What am I trying to say More?
Speaker 2 (20:29):
hard done by.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
More hard done by than anybody else in the country
.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
I reckon almost anywhere else in the world just
about Melbourne was.
It was brutal, brutal.
Were you in Victoria then?
No, you were so lucky it wasbrutal.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
It was horrible, but I was in communication with
people almost every day aboutpeople who were gay, so I
understood it.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
It's different to communicate and to actually live
in it.
It was horrible.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Yeah, but there was.
I bet during that time crimehad receded during that time.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Well, I can tell you because I've got friends of mine
that were at Polair and it waslike shooting fish in a barrel.
Any car that was moving becauseof the curfews, any car that
was moving was crooks moving,basically, and it was easy for
them the only people doing thewrong thing.
It was easy for them to spotthem.
So they were picked up veryquickly because police weren't
tied up with all the normalstuff 133693, your calls.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
I'm Tony McManus.
Roger Sutherland is here from ahealthy shift.
133693.
Come and have your say.
Nice to have your companywherever you are.
Right through could be the AceRadio Network, our great friends
at 5AA in Adelaide and 6PR inPerth.
Jump on board, come and haveyour say.
133693 for Perth listeners.
133882.
The text line going intoMeltdown.
I think most offenders need tobe publicly shamed.
(21:45):
You and I were just talkingabout that, the idea of public
shaming.
That's a law.
You can't, and so wouldpoliticians.
Would people want the law to bechanged around that so that
people could be publicly shamed?
Would that make any?
Speaker 2 (21:57):
difference.
See, I know they say they comeout with their faces covered,
but they're instructed to, andthat their faces are covered
because the news are not allowedto show their faces.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Unless you go to a Coldplay concert.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
One, double, three, six nine, eight, and you're a
big.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
CEO.
Yeah, Christian hello.
Speaker 12 (22:18):
How are you boys?
Speaker 13 (22:19):
Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Hi Christian.
Speaker 13 (22:21):
We need to have discipline brought back into the
households and back intoschools.
Yeah, I agree, it's ridiculousAll these snowflakes and
everything you know.
We're hurting people's feelingsand stuff like that.
I am sick and tired of hearingit A snowflake.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
A snowflake.
I agree with you, Christian Asnowflake.
Speaker 13 (22:42):
People today are snowflakes.
Speaker 6 (22:43):
They are so sensitive in everything we do.
Speaker 13 (22:44):
Anything you say, do they are.
They are so sensitive ineverything we do.
Speaker 6 (22:47):
Yes, they are.
Speaker 13 (22:47):
Anything you say do they are.
They are so sensitive.
That's why they're snowflakes.
We need to start growing up.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Yeah, I agree with you on that.
Speaker 13 (22:55):
I'm worrying about little things.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Yep, I agree with you .
So how does a teacher, how doesan officer of the law?
How does a magistrate?
How does a senior court judge?
How do they determine who andwho isn't a snowflake?
Speaker 2 (23:12):
How do they decide who isn't a snowflake?
How do they go?
I'm sorry you're a snowflake,no, but if someone's going to
come up, and they're going tosay oh no, I'm offended by what
you just said.
There, go and sit down up theback there.
Just shut up and sit down, yeahRight, that's it.
I'm not listening to you,Because we listen to the vocal
minority far too much.
In fact, the vocal minority arefighting amongst themselves and
(23:33):
they don't even know whatthey're there for.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Thank you, george, middle Park.
Hello George, come and haveyour say.
Say hello to Roger John in PortDouglas.
Hello John, oh hello.
Speaker 15 (23:45):
John in Port Douglas .
Hello, john, oh, hello.
Speaker 12 (23:49):
Morning, yeah, good morning.
Yeah, I was discussing youthcrime.
Look, there's one way tocontrol people and there's a
very, very powerful emotioncalled fear.
Yeah, now, fear controls humanbeings.
If they don't have anything tofear, they don't care, like they
don't mind going to jail.
They get three square meals aday and air-conditioned
(24:11):
computers and games to play.
That's nothing.
You've got to take the examplethat they have in Singapore.
Singapore has no crime, nonewhatsoever, because they have
this thing called the return,and if you get out of control,
you get a taste of the returnmaybe 10 or 15 lashes, depending
on the uh, severity of theoffense.
(24:32):
Now, uh, this keeps peopleunder control because they uh,
there's a thing called fear, youknow.
But, um, that's the only wayyou can do it, the only way.
But you can't introduce thatcorporal punishment here because
you have this thing called thelegal industry.
It's an enormous economicimpost on the country and they
(24:55):
know damn well that if thissystem was introduced, the crime
would stop overnight, justfinished.
It would be like Singapore nocrime at all, but they'd all be
out of a job, and so they'd bitetooth and nail to prevent
anything like this happening.
That's the legal industry.
(25:15):
It's an enormous world thatemploys a lot of people, and
they wouldn't like to see thathappen, but that's.
The only way you can stop themis to use fear.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Good on you, john.
Thank you, I'm going to move on, john, because we're going to
race through some calls and Idon't want to leave people out.
Fair comment from John.
Yep totally Amen from John.
I think he's spot on.
I've been hosting these sortsof programs for a long time now
and for at least 20-plus yearspeople have been talking about
Australia adopting elements ofthe Singapore model.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
They have been.
Why don't we look at it?
It works, we know it works.
Can I just say this one thing?
I just want to say thisCorporal punishment was
abolished because why it'sdetrimental to the child.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
How are we travelling now?
Speaker 2 (26:05):
In terms of the Well, there's no corporal punishment.
Now Look at the behaviourYou're talking about in schools.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Look at the behaviour You're talking about in schools
.
Yep, so you would go back togetting the cuts, getting the
strap.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Well, you've got to give them.
Literally, as John just said,you've got to have fear.
Now, how would I feel about myson getting the cuts?
Well, I did.
I got them, Didn't do me anyharm Well maybe, but I know
we're going to argue and I knowall the vocal minority will come
out again and say oh no, youcan't be doing that to kids.
Well, how are we going now?
(26:33):
How are we travelling now?
Youth crime, everything's outof control.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
But is that the role of a female teacher?
And there's a majority ofteachers no, but they never did
that.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
The female teachers.
When I say female, no, but theynever did that, no, the female
teachers weren't.
When I say female, it wasn'tthe actual teachers generally.
Speaker 5 (26:50):
Generally, it was the sense of the headmaster.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
It was a brother, it was the headmaster.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah, and that's where you went.
So you've got this headmasterwhose sole job is to give boys
and girls the strap.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Well, no, it's not his sole job, he's a headmaster.
He'd be pretty busy.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
He'd be pretty busy.
Line him up from 9 o'clock.
He'd still be going by morning.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Would he, though, if you started it?
Would he At every school rightacross Australia.
Once a kid started coming backwith the cuts and they're
thinking oh, my God, and itflicked around and it got me on
the wrist Would?
Speaker 1 (27:18):
you want that job.
Speaker 14 (27:19):
I'm now a headmaster at a school, my job is I now
strap children?
Does he wear a hood, neil?
Don't Neil.
Hello Roger.
G'day Tony.
Great conversation again.
Thanks mate 50 years ago wenever had this problem.
No, 50 years ago.
You guys are about my age I'm67.
(27:40):
So we never had this problem 50years ago.
Because we were scared.
I never went there.
But I have mates that went toTarana and they would come back
and tell me what it was like andI tell you what.
Just to listen to those storiesthat scared the crap out of me.
We have to come back tosomething like that.
You don't have to lock them upfor 12 months.
(28:01):
Put them in there for a week.
I know my entry goes down.
I know everyone's going oh, wehaven't got the money, but the
government's got the money foreverything else.
They go off on their jauntsover the sister cities in
October in America and takeeveryone and fly business class
(28:23):
and what have you?
So go back to where it was 50years ago.
You were a copper then.
If I was walking down thestreet and I saw you at 10
o'clock at night and that wasn'tthat late, and I saw the divvy
van coming down.
Let me tell you, I jumped overthe view.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Oh, neil, I'm totally with you on that, you would.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
You would and we all did that.
There was some terror about thelocal police officers because
they would report back home.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
But as John from Port Douglas said, fear You've got
to have fear.
If I copped a clip behind theear from the local cop when I
was growing up, there's no waywould I tell my parents I would
have got another one.
You're embarrassed.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Now they're down at the police station making
complaints, complaints about the, but is that the role that
young police officers want totake on today?
No, they don't.
And therein lies anotherproblem.
There's one here that says TonyMac, stop interrupting.
Roger, you like to disagree?
Well, I don't disagree, Isimply ask the question.
People that have the right idea.
Snowflakes, you laugh, don'tknow what they are.
(29:23):
I don't know what a snowflakeis.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
You've never heard the term snowflake.
Oh, Christian and I are on thesame team then.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
A snowflake's held a chance of health, but how do you
determine who is a snowflakeand who's not a snowflake?
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Well, I think it's pretty easy to pick a snowflake.
Well, I could be a snowflake.
You're not a snowflake.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Thank you, Len hi Good.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
Good evening, tony, what a snowflake.
Go ahead, len, you stole methunder.
The corporal punishment, yeah,corporal punishment.
I cut the cuts a few times, sodid I.
And you know it pulls you inthe line.
It doesn't hurt that much.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
And it doesn't last long, does it Len?
But you certainly learned fromit.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
I don't know what a snowflake is, mate, don't worry
about that.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
You didn't have snowflakes once you'd had the
cubs, I didn't buy them thosedays.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
But but no, the thing is no, there's got to be
discipline, there's got to berespect.
Yep.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
But none of that's new though.
Len.
You say you've got to havediscipline, we say we've got to
have respect.
The question that I put back toyou and the listener is how do
we instill that?
It's not as if there's somemagic wand Consequence.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Consequence.
I'll say it again, and, again,and again there's got to be a
consequence.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
And who is going to set up the idea of providing?
Speaker 2 (30:48):
politicians by writing the bills to do it and
it always comes back to thepolitician.
You have to come back to thepolitician.
They're writing the bill.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
And yet you and I vote for people each and every
three or four years, bothnationally and right throughout
the states, and we get thepoliticians for whom we vote.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
We get what we deserve by what we're voting for
Now.
I know don't get me wrong herethere's a lot of people here
that will not have voted forthis government that we have now
.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Sorry.
Which government are youtalking about?
Speaker 2 (31:18):
The Labor government in Victoria.
Now Right, okay, so we've gotto be careful.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Sorry, I want to be careful.
I want to be careful becausewe're talking about the national
audience.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Yeah, there'd be a Labor government in.
Well, there's a Laborgovernment in national, yeah,
national.
And we're in a position nowwhere we voted for that.
It was only a recent election.
It was a landslide victory,wasn't it?
Yeah, landslide victory, wasn'tit?
Yeah, landslide.
So people can't complain andsay, oh, he's not doing this or
he's not doing it, well, they'vegot the right to do it.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
So you're saying that democracy doesn't work.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
You're saying democracy, well, I think it's
rigged to a certain extent aswell, which is another story.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
It's rigged.
Well, not rigged, it'sdemocracy.
That's what the president says.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
The President says it's all rigged.
Where do the preferential votesgo?
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Where do the preferential votes and
everything go?
A lot of people don'tunderstand that, but that's the
system that we have.
That's our democratic system inAustralia, yes, so how do we
overhaul that?
Speaker 2 (32:13):
How do we overhaul that?
We need to educate the publicon where those preferential
votes are going so they knowexactly what they're voting for,
and I don't think enough peopleknow that?
Speaker 1 (32:24):
No, they don't, and they're not inclined to even
find out about it.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
No, they're not no.
And then they want to bring invoting at 16 in the UK.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
I know 133693.
Rudy in Adelaide will come toyou next.
You can join the conversation.
I'm Tony McManus.
Roger Roland is here, a formercopper of 40-plus years.
Normally we talk about shiftwork, but we can go anywhere in
this, that's all right.
Anywhere 133693,.
Come and join us straight afterthis.
A lot of text, which is nice.
(32:50):
Wherever you are right acrossAustralia, we will get to as
many as we can.
0477 693 693.
Rudy in South Australia Hello,hello.
How are you going there, rudy?
Speaker 11 (33:03):
you wanted to say I wanted to say just one thing.
I'm old, vintage, but we usedto have corporal punishment when
I went to school and I had thecane a few times school and I
had the cane a few times andthat didn't hurt.
(33:26):
Well, it did hurt at the time.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Do you think it was a deterrent, Rudy?
It straightened me up.
Speaker 11 (33:32):
You reckon it did?
Oh yes, and then I'd get adouble whack.
When I got home from, theheadmaster gave the report.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
I was the same, I agree.
Speaker 11 (33:43):
And I wanted to say to Roger we need more like him
to actually get into Parliament.
Ex-copper.
Yeah, I agree to get intoParliament to actually make
(34:03):
these laws come to fruition anddon't, like the previous caller
said about snowflaking and allthat stuff, Go back to the old
days.
You run riot on the streetswhen you were a kid, right, Yep,
(34:25):
you got into trouble.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Yeah, well and truly you did, Can I?
Speaker 2 (34:30):
just say one thing we had the chance to vote on an
ex-cop and we didn't vote forhim.
And we've also got one here inthis state as well.
Who's in the leader of theopposition?
Who's an ex-cop?
Isn't Brad Batten an?
Speaker 1 (34:41):
ex-cop Brian in Hastings, hello.
Speaker 15 (34:45):
Yes, yeah, I'm on the opposite side of everything,
because what's happened to meis absolutely throwing my world
upside down.
I'm a 65-year-old, disabledpensioner and I've had the I
call myself have come up mydriveway while I'm tinkering
(35:09):
with my new car and, yeah,they've come up with a
breathalyzer and said, oh well,I didn't have a drink or
anything.
Oh, hang on, I'm going to comeon my property.
I'm a diabetic too diabetic onehaving a hypo and I've gone
inside to do what I had to do.
(35:29):
I lost my license for fouryears over this and it's cost me
$4,000 to get a solicitor, andI've had to plead guilty, which
I did because I did refuse abreathalyser in my own driveway.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
I don't know what's going on here, rudy, there's
something a bit weird about that, yeah about the law there.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Without the full context of the whole story, it's
extremely difficult.
I know type 1 diabetes that'shaving a hypoglycemic episode
can certainly present likesomeone who is intoxicated, and
it's one thing that I learnedthe hard way in my career as
well.
Someone who I thought was drunkwas actually having a
hypoglycemic episode.
You've got to be so careful.
You've got to remember too, thecops are not medical
(36:15):
professionals.
No, of course not, and that'swhy they've got a breathalyzer
in their hand, so when you blowin it, it gives you a reading.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Yeah, what about and I'm not too sure what Rudy's
situation may have been, but ifofficers were following that
particular car?
That car turns into a drivewayIf they are suspicious about
that are they allowed to do atest in the driveway?
Yep, because they've seen thatdriver, yep.
So it's not about being in thedriveway necessarily.
No, it's a bit random, it'scontinuous.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
All right, it's continuous.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
We've got to do this.
When we come back more of yourcalls, Come and join us on
Australia Overnight, Roger,would you say.
Based on a lot of the text,would you say imprisonment is a
holiday camp.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
No, not at all.
You're taking a person'sliberty away from them.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
G'day Tony and Roger.
Perhaps we need to lobbygovernments to change laws and
not stop until they do.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
There you go Well I think that's the DNA of what
we're talking about.
We're finished on that, amen.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Thank you for having me.
The laws are going to reflectit.
It's always good.
Have a look at what Roger does.
A healthy shift dot com.
A healthy shift dot com.
We'll talk to you in a coupleof weeks.
We go whining.
Here we night shift.
It's the night shift I thinkmany of you know and remember.
We haven't seen him for a longtime, don't know where he's been
, roger Sutherland, and we talkall things night shift, things
that happen in the middle of thenight, things that go quirky.
The one and only young, anneJackson, is working.
The other side of the glass,roger, good morning to you.
(00:21):
Good morning to you, tony.
How are you Well, I've beensensationally well and happy and
smiling, and it's a joy to seeyou back in the studios here of
Australia Overnight.
There are much we can talkabout, but I want to talk to you
very shortly too, about thisseminar experience on which
you've been working, which willbe fascinating.
(00:41):
During the news, you and I gotfired up, as we tend to do,
about the state of the nation.
I made the point.
You can't say as much as I can,but I make the point is that we
still have this situationpretty much right throughout
Australia, where people arecertainly concerned about the
lawlessness that seems to bemore and more prevalent as we
(01:03):
move through this year.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Now I communicate with a lot of policing agencies
and police members worldwide.
It's not just nationwide, it'sworldwide, and the UK are on
their loose.
Speaker 5 (01:14):
What do?
Speaker 6 (01:14):
they say is driving it.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Well, I don't know whether I'm even allowed to say
what my thoughts are.
Where do you start?
Feel free to give your thoughts.
Immigration I think theimmigration is a massive problem
.
That's where I think it starts.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
So somebody talked about this earlier in the week
it might have been last week inthe program Yep, on the basis
that, if that is the case, howdo we manage that?
This is because the worldpopulation, presumably, is
growing.
We've got this situation wherethere is conflict in other parts
of the world, people are tryingto escape it.
They're going into otherregions right throughout Europe.
(01:52):
It's a major issue.
What is the solution?
Is there one?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
I don't know.
But I do know one thing that ifpeople are going to come into
the country and live in acountry whether it be Sweden,
denmark, whether it's Australia,whether it's the US you've got
to live and perform with theircustom and you need to adopt
that, because if you want to getaway from that mess that you've
(02:17):
come from, then you need tocome in and you need to live
according to our custom here.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
But how do you get people to do that?
I don't want to just be thedevil's advocate here for a
moment.
How do you get people to dothat?
So somebody arrives into thisgreat nation and you look them
down the eye and say now you'vegot to behave in a certain way
as an Australian.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Okay, so what about if I went to the Middle East and
I was to, and we know thatthere's certain countries that
if you are a female and you'rewearing like a singlet top and
shorts and you go into thatcountry, you're not going to
survive?
How are they going to treat you?
They're going to treat you verypoorly and, in fact, the impact
(02:59):
that that has is massive on youbecause they're going to take
it as far as they can possiblytake it.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Yeah, but we know Australian people do that.
They go to Indonesia, they goto Bali, they go to various
parts of Taking drugs and thingslike that and take drugs and
behave appallingly in bars.
Yes, and they do, and they go.
I've got this right.
I can wear a T-shirt.
I can wear a dumbass cap if Iwant to and they get punished,
don't they?
Speaker 2 (03:21):
by the law of that country.
But here it doesn't happen.
Now, I personally feel it sendsthe wrong message when we have
the leader of the state that isactually out there handing the
keys to an apartment to somebodywho hasn't been here that long,
when we are in trouble in therest of the state.
The leader of this state has tobe putting the laws and
(03:46):
starting to put bills ofparliament through to support
the police and the magistratesand the justice and sort that
problem out.
There has to be a law and thelaw has to be enforced.
Yeah, so it's got to come fromthe police.
It's got to come from.
It has to come.
It's not the police's fault.
I don't care what anyone saysand I know I've done 40 years in
(04:07):
the cops but it's not thepolice's fault, because I'm
talking to police all the time.
It is unbelievably frustratingfor them.
You've got to remember they'reaway from their families,
they're away from their lovedones all the time working on
these cases, putting thesebriefs of evidence together and
going to court for absolutely noresult at all, and that's
(04:29):
because of the lack of well.
The Justice Department don'tactually have the tools to use
to be able to support the policein what they're doing.
In the meantime, marriages arebreaking down a lot.
I know it's a choice, thepolice are making those choices
to do those things.
But I can tell you now it'sgetting very thin in the thin
blue line because they hadenough.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Very thin.
In the thin blue line there'syour quote of the morning.
I do love that.
1-336-93.
Come and have your say Anythingyou'd like to raise on the
program.
Roger, as you know, is aspecialist very for a long time
now, since retirement of thepolice force, looking at the
ideas around night shift andshift workers in particular.
You know who you are.
You might want to jump.
If you have a question orthought or an idea, share your
(05:12):
experience.
1-double-3-6-9-3.
Arty Karate, morning.
Speaker 7 (05:18):
Good morning Tony Mack and Roger and Action
Jackson.
Now, roger, the weather seemsit is cold, it is winter,
affecting my sleep pattern in away, and the vitamin D tablets
are going up and down in pricesbetween Woolies Coles.
Any suggestions where they're areasonable price?
Sometimes they're $10 and thenthey jump up to double the price
(05:41):
.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Do they really?
I haven't noticed that.
I always get mine from ChemistWarehouse, believe it or not,
and I tend to find that theSwiss brand and I'm not
promoting anything.
I'm certainly not sponsored byanybody at all but I tend to
find vitamin D is vitamin D, nomatter where you actually get it
from or what labels on it.
(06:02):
It's all very, very similarstuff.
So it's just a matter ofhunting around and finding the
cheapest that you can.
Please make sure that you keeptaking it, and I'd be taking
probably 2000 iu or two of thoselittle pills every day at the
moment because you can't getvitamin d from the sun at all at
this time of the year here inmelbourne yeah, it is pretty
(06:23):
dark and the shorter days andeverything, but yeah, I'll just
keep hunting.
Speaker 7 (06:27):
I guess they're the ones I'd use, too Swiss.
But they're jumping aroundprice.
One moment they'll have themfor $9.95, then they're about
$18.95.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Holy dooly, that is a massive difference, arthur,
thank you for that.
You say you can't get anysunshine this time of the year.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
No, you can get sunshine, you can't get vitamin
D from the sun Because the sun'stoo low in the sky.
Aha, it's got to be above 30degrees above the horizon and
it's not at the moment.
It's lower than 30 degrees.
So even if you sit out in thesun at the moment now don't get
me wrong here, I want to,because you're getting the
ultraviolet, the infrared,you're getting all of the
(07:03):
colours in that spectrum of sunhitting you, but your body can't
synthesise vitamin D from thesun at this time of the year.
At the moment.
We are in a window where youcan't synthesise it.
It's got to be above 30 degreesabove the horizon and that will
be.
I'll tell you when the next dayis.
Get out the compass.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Get out the old compass.
Is it more than 30 degrees?
Speaker 2 (07:24):
No, I'll tell you If we move on.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
I'll come back to you and I'll tell you All right,
let's take a couple of thesecalls in.
Whereabee, michael, come andjoin us.
Hello, yes, Michael, go ahead.
Speaker 8 (07:40):
About what you're talking about.
Like you know, I know in thenumbers there you know of the
crime a bit, a fair bit.
It was really bad like rapesand whatever assaults and
murders and they brought it downquite a fair bit.
But I think here now what we'vegot, like what I'm watching on
the news, it's a societybreakdown Like, even like in
Northern Territory, aliceSprings.
(08:02):
There it seems to be gettingworse and I just looked up
Native American Indians there.
They've got like double thecrime rate there too.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (08:12):
So it's a lot of culture thing, and now it's
coming to the cities.
I don't know what's going on.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
It's an interesting dilemma really about Michael.
Thank you very much for thatcall.
When you talk about the variousregions around Australia and
what is, is there a heightenedlevel of dissatisfaction with
people, with particularlyyounger people?
Are they disenfranchised to thepoint that they then think it's
okay to get, without going intotoo much detail, loading up a
(08:43):
car a stolen car with vodka andweapons and getting on the P155,
creating chaos, putting otherlives their lives and other
lives in danger and that ofpolice officers and others?
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Everybody.
It's a massive problem.
I'm just going to come out andsay it, but it's literally
consequences.
There is no consequence for theaction.
There's no consequence fordoing the right thing today.
There's no consequence for doingthe wrong thing, but the laws
say you can't do those things,so surely they do so now.
I saw a comment today on one ofthe social media posts and I
(09:18):
thought it was interesting.
Is the Premier now going tocome out, on the back of
everything that happened in IGAyesterday?
Yep, Is the Premier now goingto come out and ban armed
robberies or shops from armedrobberies?
I mean, she's banned samuraiswords, but they're still
carrying them.
Or machetes, yeah, they'restill carrying them.
So what are we going to do?
Ban armed robberies?
Oh wait, hang on.
The Crimes Act actually tellsus that armed robberies are
(09:40):
banned.
What armed robberies are banned?
What's the problem?
How do we solve that problem?
Speaker 1 (09:44):
That's the issue.
133693.
We'll do this break.
Come back, those calls that arewaiting.
I promise you we won't be long.
133693.
It is Australia Overnight.
We'll get to these calls injust a moment.
During the break on AustraliaOvernight, roger Sutherland and
I, from A Healthy Shift, weremaking the point that the level
of disengagement or frustrationI think is ingrained in,
(10:08):
certainly you would imagine, inproceedings in various courts
right around Australia.
You would imagine there wouldbe officers young, senior that
are also feeling the angst andpain of dissatisfaction with
what they do every day, everyday, and they're having massive
problems with it.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
There's text here and I just want to broadly cover it
.
People are blaming the judgesfor releasing it.
You're wrong.
It's not the judges ormagistrates that are releasing
them on bail.
It's the law that's releasingthem on bail.
The law is written byparliamentarians, by politicians
.
They're the ones that have gotto sit there make decisions,
(10:48):
they vote the bill in, the billcomes in and then the
magistrates all party becausethey can actually then deal with
the crisis that they've got infront of them.
But they can only work and thepolice can only work within the
law and that's all they can do.
What you think looks right andfeels right doesn't mean that it
is actually what is the law.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
And we've said often on this program, you and I don't
sit through every single trialand we don't hear the evidences
presented to his or her honour.
Mick in South Melbourne.
Hello, yes, hello, Morning Mick.
Speaker 6 (11:26):
Hello, further to what you're saying, I think we
have to own the problem forstarters and stop just
pretending it's a certain waywhen it isn't, but just
basically throwing people offthe pier.
I think groups, we've got tolook after our own Melbourne,
our suburbs, whether it's youand me getting together because
(11:47):
our society's going down.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
I don't agree with the vigilante style.
Is that what you're referringto?
Yeah, I know what you mean.
I can understand it though,mick, make no bones about it.
I can totally understand it.
Like people have absolutely hada gutful, they've had enough.
They're watching it all thetime.
You follow certain people onsocial media and things like
(12:10):
that, you tend to see it all thetime and it causes massive
problems and it impacts on ourmental health.
There's a simple solution is toturn it off, but I was driving-
Turn off the social media.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
You mean?
Yep?
So the mere fact that we'rehaving a conversation about it
now on air, would you go?
We shouldn't even be talkingabout it.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Well, it does impact on people all the time when we
do, but we do need to discuss itbecause it's a problem.
What I want to hear from I wantto hear someone one of these
callers ring up and tell us howto solve the problem.
Someone tell us how, if you'vegot the Chief Commissioner of
Police and Jacinta Allen, thePremier sitting there.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Again we're talking about Victoria.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Sorry, we're talking about Victoria, but if you've
got your leader of the police,let's just say we're going to
have In each state.
No, we're going to do itnational.
We're going to have a nationalinquiry.
We're going to put everybodythere and you have the floor.
What's?
Speaker 1 (13:04):
your solution to it, but the issues are very
different in Northern Territoryto they are in Brunswick, are
they not?
Speaker 5 (13:13):
I'm just putting that out there, I don't know, are
they?
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Yeah, probably Good on you, Mick.
Thank you In Coolaroo, Bobby,say hello to Roger.
Speaker 10 (13:21):
Good morning guys.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Morning Bob.
Speaker 10 (13:27):
I was just listening to the start of your
conversation.
The whole trouble is that thereare not enough reinforcements.
That is to say, you can go andbash somebody, you can go and
rob somebody and the first thingyou're going to hear is oh,
that poor person.
He had a deprived childhood.
(13:48):
No wonder he's doing all thesesorts of things because he
hasn't been brought up withhaving some responsibility for
the rest of society as well ashimself.
He goes to jail and the jail'snice and warm and comfortable at
this time of year.
He's not suffering a lot.
(14:09):
There'll be a lot of criminalsout there who'll say I can do
jail time on my ear.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Yeah, and that's so true.
Speaker 10 (14:16):
And that's where it's wrong.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Again no consequence is it.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Yeah well, it feels like there is no consequence.
Speaker 5 (14:23):
Well it does.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
The consequences are in the courts and the courts are
not in a position to reallybring the proverbial out, but
unfortunately the public see theend result in court because
that's the end of the line,isn't it?
When you think about it?
Like the crime is committed,there's victims.
I think one of the biggestconcerns that the public has
today is it feels like the needsof the offender are being put
(14:47):
before the needs of the victimbecause that's what the law
dictates.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
That correct.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
But that's how the public feel.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Well, they do.
But but is that because theyhave a lot?
We many have a lack ofunderstanding of the law.
Yes, we don't like it.
I've been saying for a longtime we don't like it.
We then need politicianselected into our parliament who
are prepared toVictim-orientated, shift those
laws forward to where it's moreacceptable to people more
palatable to people At point,quick at point, quick hello,
(15:15):
Neil.
Speaker 9 (15:16):
G'day Tom, how's it going?
Well, thank you what do youwant to say yeah, look, I think,
being at the immigration andpeople are coming here from
overseas, I think it goes backto the culture that they're
coming from.
A lot of them come fromwar-torn countries and all this
that's going on and they justdon't have any values for
(15:41):
discipline or anything, becausethey've had to fight their way
all their lives, kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Cultural in that sense.
So, Neil, we've just got areally bad line there.
So thank you for making thatpoint, but a lot of these young
people to whom I think theyrefer are actually born here
anyway.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
That's true too, and I think you've raised this point
, and I think it's a valid oneas well.
You raised this quite some timeago.
Have they got respect forthemselves?
Yeah, a lack of self-respect.
Respect for themselves yeah, alack of self-respect.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Lack of self-respect.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Do they have any self ?
Is there any self-respect?
Speaker 5 (16:13):
Like what makes you do that?
That I can't answer.
I know.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
What makes you do that.
Maybe other people would have asense of that or what was
important to us as young peoplein Australia post-war?
Yeah, we knew and we werelittle, obviously, but there are
people who would rememberpost-war and those very
challenging times post-war.
Did that unite us in a way thatmakes us feel it was special at
(16:36):
that time?
It was tough, it was hard, itwas grindy to make it work.
Now those conditions no longerreally apply.
Times have changed, yes.
Conditions no longer reallyapply.
Times have changed, yes, and Ijust wonder whether that
connection is no longer what itonce was, certainly post-World
War.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
II yeah, because people are not pulling together,
whereas when we have a majorincident, everyone pulls
together, don't they?
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Where are we going?
Action Jackson, we're going toPeter in Port Melbourne.
Hello, Hi Pete.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Hi guys, good morning .
How are you Well, go ahead.
Yeah, can I have a quick chatabout this youth crime everyone
keeps on bragging about?
I think it's the fact that whenI was a bit younger I never
knew the most important thingwas the education side for these
young offenders.
For these young offenders, thefact that these guys have got no
(17:31):
prospects are going forward.
Probably they're gettingsuppressed on what they can
achieve, they're not getting anyhelp and they're being put down
for a lot of society's problemsand blaming them for everything
.
And the fact that when youtalked about the cops sometimes
it's not their fault that11-year-old girl that was locked
(17:54):
up in the Northern Territoryfor two days and one night with
no supervision that goes a longway for me to trust the copper
back up in the NorthernTerritory for an 11-year-olds.
That's something that noteveryone's going to forget, tony
.
Not everyone's going to forgetTony.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Those issues in the northern territory and far north
Queensland and far north of thestate of Western Australia they
are challenging and they'redifferent again.
Speaker 5 (18:21):
Incredibly challenging.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
And it's probably a little different to some of the
issues that we're experiencingin Melbourne or Adelaide or
Sydney.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
It is, it's not even I don't think you can liken it.
No, because there's all sortsof issues Of coach police in
remote areas unbelievablychallenging, Chris in Brodie hi.
Speaker 5 (18:45):
Hi Peter and Tony Mack.
I first of all think people whocome from abroad don't know how
to assimilate with our culture,our democracy.
But I did send the Premier anemail.
I got the protocol through acall to State Parliament after
the Sunday night episode, whichcoincidentally, I was at the job
(19:06):
site, but I didn't actuallyknow anything until it was going
down.
But I said, maybe with the lackof numbers here in the State
District abroad, but the policeprobably need some help as a
one-off under a state ofemergency with the Reserve Army.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Well, a lot of people have said that, but then it's
not something that's palatableto many?
Speaker 2 (19:27):
No, it's not.
Do you remember through COVID?
I remember through COVID, whenpolice were out walking,
particularly in certain areas,police were walking with
military members walking alongchecking face masks and that,
like honestly, it left me reallyfeeling yuck, to say the least.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
That was more predominant, though, in Victoria
than anywhere else, wasn't ityes?
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Oh, but I was walking the Maribyrnong River.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
I don't think people walking around the Swan were
necessarily in that situation inWA.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
No, but we were in a real bad way here, but anyway,
but yeah, no, I don't agree withthe military People in Victoria
, melbourne, in Melbourne asopposed to Victoria.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yep, what hard done by.
No, not hard done by, but thereis a sentiment in Victoria that
would suggest they were worse.
What am I trying to say More?
Speaker 2 (20:29):
hard done by.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
More hard done by than anybody else in the country
.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
I reckon almost anywhere else in the world just
about Melbourne was.
It was brutal, brutal.
Were you in Victoria then?
No, you were so lucky it wasbrutal.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
It was horrible, but I was in communication with
people almost every day aboutpeople who were gay, so I
understood it.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
It's different to communicate and to actually live
in it.
It was horrible.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Yeah, but there was.
I bet during that time crimehad receded during that time.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Well, I can tell you because I've got friends of mine
that were at Polair and it waslike shooting fish in a barrel.
Any car that was moving becauseof the curfews, any car that
was moving was crooks moving,basically, and it was easy for
them the only people doing thewrong thing.
It was easy for them to spotthem.
So they were picked up veryquickly because police weren't
tied up with all the normalstuff 133693, your calls.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
I'm Tony McManus.
Roger Sutherland is here from ahealthy shift.
133693.
Come and have your say.
Nice to have your companywherever you are.
Right through could be the AceRadio Network, our great friends
at 5AA in Adelaide and 6PR inPerth.
Jump on board, come and haveyour say.
133693 for Perth listeners.
133882.
The text line going intoMeltdown.
I think most offenders need tobe publicly shamed.
(21:45):
You and I were just talkingabout that, the idea of public
shaming.
That's a law.
You can't, and so wouldpoliticians.
Would people want the law to bechanged around that so that
people could be publicly shamed?
Would that make any?
Speaker 2 (21:57):
difference.
See, I know they say they comeout with their faces covered,
but they're instructed to, andthat their faces are covered
because the news are not allowedto show their faces.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Unless you go to a Coldplay concert.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
One, double, three, six nine, eight, and you're a
big.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
CEO.
Yeah, Christian hello.
Speaker 12 (22:18):
How are you boys?
Speaker 13 (22:19):
Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Hi Christian.
Speaker 13 (22:21):
We need to have discipline brought back into the
households and back intoschools.
Yeah, I agree, it's ridiculousAll these snowflakes and
everything you know.
We're hurting people's feelingsand stuff like that.
I am sick and tired of hearingit A snowflake.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
A snowflake.
I agree with you, Christian Asnowflake.
Speaker 13 (22:42):
People today are snowflakes.
Speaker 6 (22:43):
They are so sensitive in everything we do.
Speaker 13 (22:44):
Anything you say, do they are.
They are so sensitive ineverything we do.
Speaker 6 (22:47):
Yes, they are.
Speaker 13 (22:47):
Anything you say do they are.
They are so sensitive.
That's why they're snowflakes.
We need to start growing up.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Yeah, I agree with you on that.
Speaker 13 (22:55):
I'm worrying about little things.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Yep, I agree with you .
So how does a teacher, how doesan officer of the law?
How does a magistrate?
How does a senior court judge?
How do they determine who andwho isn't a snowflake?
Speaker 2 (23:12):
How do they decide who isn't a snowflake?
How do they go?
I'm sorry you're a snowflake,no, but if someone's going to
come up, and they're going tosay oh no, I'm offended by what
you just said.
There, go and sit down up theback there.
Just shut up and sit down, yeahRight, that's it.
I'm not listening to you,Because we listen to the vocal
minority far too much.
In fact, the vocal minority arefighting amongst themselves and
(23:33):
they don't even know whatthey're there for.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Thank you, george, middle Park.
Hello George, come and haveyour say.
Say hello to Roger John in PortDouglas.
Hello John, oh hello.
Speaker 15 (23:45):
John in Port Douglas .
Hello, john, oh, hello.
Speaker 12 (23:49):
Morning, yeah, good morning.
Yeah, I was discussing youthcrime.
Look, there's one way tocontrol people and there's a
very, very powerful emotioncalled fear.
Yeah, now, fear controls humanbeings.
If they don't have anything tofear, they don't care, like they
don't mind going to jail.
They get three square meals aday and air-conditioned
(24:11):
computers and games to play.
That's nothing.
You've got to take the examplethat they have in Singapore.
Singapore has no crime, nonewhatsoever, because they have
this thing called the return,and if you get out of control,
you get a taste of the returnmaybe 10 or 15 lashes, depending
on the uh, severity of theoffense.
(24:32):
Now, uh, this keeps peopleunder control because they uh,
there's a thing called fear, youknow.
But, um, that's the only wayyou can do it, the only way.
But you can't introduce thatcorporal punishment here because
you have this thing called thelegal industry.
It's an enormous economicimpost on the country and they
(24:55):
know damn well that if thissystem was introduced, the crime
would stop overnight, justfinished.
It would be like Singapore nocrime at all, but they'd all be
out of a job, and so they'd bitetooth and nail to prevent
anything like this happening.
That's the legal industry.
(25:15):
It's an enormous world thatemploys a lot of people, and
they wouldn't like to see thathappen, but that's.
The only way you can stop themis to use fear.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Good on you, john.
Thank you, I'm going to move on, john, because we're going to
race through some calls and Idon't want to leave people out.
Fair comment from John.
Yep totally Amen from John.
I think he's spot on.
I've been hosting these sortsof programs for a long time now
and for at least 20-plus yearspeople have been talking about
Australia adopting elements ofthe Singapore model.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
They have been.
Why don't we look at it?
It works, we know it works.
Can I just say this one thing?
I just want to say thisCorporal punishment was
abolished because why it'sdetrimental to the child.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
How are we travelling now?
Speaker 2 (26:05):
In terms of the Well, there's no corporal punishment.
Now Look at the behaviourYou're talking about in schools.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Look at the behaviour You're talking about in schools
.
Yep, so you would go back togetting the cuts, getting the
strap.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Well, you've got to give them.
Literally, as John just said,you've got to have fear.
Now, how would I feel about myson getting the cuts?
Well, I did.
I got them, Didn't do me anyharm Well maybe, but I know
we're going to argue and I knowall the vocal minority will come
out again and say oh no, youcan't be doing that to kids.
Well, how are we going now?
(26:33):
How are we travelling now?
Youth crime, everything's outof control.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
But is that the role of a female teacher?
And there's a majority ofteachers no, but they never did
that.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
The female teachers.
When I say female, no, but theynever did that, no, the female
teachers weren't.
When I say female, it wasn'tthe actual teachers generally.
Speaker 5 (26:50):
Generally, it was the sense of the headmaster.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
It was a brother, it was the headmaster.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah, and that's where you went.
So you've got this headmasterwhose sole job is to give boys
and girls the strap.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Well, no, it's not his sole job, he's a headmaster.
He'd be pretty busy.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
He'd be pretty busy.
Line him up from 9 o'clock.
He'd still be going by morning.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Would he, though, if you started it?
Would he At every school rightacross Australia.
Once a kid started coming backwith the cuts and they're
thinking oh, my God, and itflicked around and it got me on
the wrist Would?
Speaker 1 (27:18):
you want that job.
Speaker 14 (27:19):
I'm now a headmaster at a school, my job is I now
strap children?
Does he wear a hood, neil?
Don't Neil.
Hello Roger.
G'day Tony.
Great conversation again.
Thanks mate 50 years ago wenever had this problem.
No, 50 years ago.
You guys are about my age I'm67.
(27:40):
So we never had this problem 50years ago.
Because we were scared.
I never went there.
But I have mates that went toTarana and they would come back
and tell me what it was like andI tell you what.
Just to listen to those storiesthat scared the crap out of me.
We have to come back tosomething like that.
You don't have to lock them upfor 12 months.
(28:01):
Put them in there for a week.
I know my entry goes down.
I know everyone's going oh, wehaven't got the money, but the
government's got the money foreverything else.
They go off on their jauntsover the sister cities in
October in America and takeeveryone and fly business class
(28:23):
and what have you?
So go back to where it was 50years ago.
You were a copper then.
If I was walking down thestreet and I saw you at 10
o'clock at night and that wasn'tthat late, and I saw the divvy
van coming down.
Let me tell you, I jumped overthe view.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Oh, neil, I'm totally with you on that, you would.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
You would and we all did that.
There was some terror about thelocal police officers because
they would report back home.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
But as John from Port Douglas said, fear You've got
to have fear.
If I copped a clip behind theear from the local cop when I
was growing up, there's no waywould I tell my parents I would
have got another one.
You're embarrassed.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Now they're down at the police station making
complaints, complaints about the, but is that the role that
young police officers want totake on today?
No, they don't.
And therein lies anotherproblem.
There's one here that says TonyMac, stop interrupting.
Roger, you like to disagree?
Well, I don't disagree, Isimply ask the question.
People that have the right idea.
Snowflakes, you laugh, don'tknow what they are.
(29:23):
I don't know what a snowflakeis.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
You've never heard the term snowflake.
Oh, Christian and I are on thesame team then.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
A snowflake's held a chance of health, but how do you
determine who is a snowflakeand who's not a snowflake?
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Well, I think it's pretty easy to pick a snowflake.
Well, I could be a snowflake.
You're not a snowflake.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Thank you, Len hi Good.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
Good evening, tony, what a snowflake.
Go ahead, len, you stole methunder.
The corporal punishment, yeah,corporal punishment.
I cut the cuts a few times, sodid I.
And you know it pulls you inthe line.
It doesn't hurt that much.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
And it doesn't last long, does it Len?
But you certainly learned fromit.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
I don't know what a snowflake is, mate, don't worry
about that.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
You didn't have snowflakes once you'd had the
cubs, I didn't buy them thosedays.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
But but no, the thing is no, there's got to be
discipline, there's got to berespect.
Yep.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
But none of that's new though.
Len.
You say you've got to havediscipline, we say we've got to
have respect.
The question that I put back toyou and the listener is how do
we instill that?
It's not as if there's somemagic wand Consequence.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Consequence.
I'll say it again, and, again,and again there's got to be a
consequence.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
And who is going to set up the idea of providing?
Speaker 2 (30:48):
politicians by writing the bills to do it and
it always comes back to thepolitician.
You have to come back to thepolitician.
They're writing the bill.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
And yet you and I vote for people each and every
three or four years, bothnationally and right throughout
the states, and we get thepoliticians for whom we vote.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
We get what we deserve by what we're voting for
Now.
I know don't get me wrong herethere's a lot of people here
that will not have voted forthis government that we have now
.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Sorry.
Which government are youtalking about?
Speaker 2 (31:18):
The Labor government in Victoria.
Now Right, okay, so we've gotto be careful.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Sorry, I want to be careful.
I want to be careful becausewe're talking about the national
audience.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Yeah, there'd be a Labor government in.
Well, there's a Laborgovernment in national, yeah,
national.
And we're in a position nowwhere we voted for that.
It was only a recent election.
It was a landslide victory,wasn't it?
Yeah, landslide victory, wasn'tit?
Yeah, landslide.
So people can't complain andsay, oh, he's not doing this or
he's not doing it, well, they'vegot the right to do it.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
So you're saying that democracy doesn't work.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
You're saying democracy, well, I think it's
rigged to a certain extent aswell, which is another story.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
It's rigged.
Well, not rigged, it'sdemocracy.
That's what the president says.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
The President says it's all rigged.
Where do the preferential votesgo?
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Where do the preferential votes and
everything go?
A lot of people don'tunderstand that, but that's the
system that we have.
That's our democratic system inAustralia, yes, so how do we
overhaul that?
Speaker 2 (32:13):
How do we overhaul that?
We need to educate the publicon where those preferential
votes are going so they knowexactly what they're voting for,
and I don't think enough peopleknow that?
Speaker 1 (32:24):
No, they don't, and they're not inclined to even
find out about it.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
No, they're not no.
And then they want to bring invoting at 16 in the UK.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
I know 133693.
Rudy in Adelaide will come toyou next.
You can join the conversation.
I'm Tony McManus.
Roger Roland is here, a formercopper of 40-plus years.
Normally we talk about shiftwork, but we can go anywhere in
this, that's all right.
Anywhere 133693,.
Come and join us straight afterthis.
A lot of text, which is nice.
(32:50):
Wherever you are right acrossAustralia, we will get to as
many as we can.
0477 693 693.
Rudy in South Australia Hello,hello.
How are you going there, rudy?
Speaker 11 (33:03):
you wanted to say I wanted to say just one thing.
I'm old, vintage, but we usedto have corporal punishment when
I went to school and I had thecane a few times school and I
had the cane a few times andthat didn't hurt.
(33:26):
Well, it did hurt at the time.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Do you think it was a deterrent, Rudy?
It straightened me up.
Speaker 11 (33:32):
You reckon it did?
Oh yes, and then I'd get adouble whack.
When I got home from, theheadmaster gave the report.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
I was the same, I agree.
Speaker 11 (33:43):
And I wanted to say to Roger we need more like him
to actually get into Parliament.
Ex-copper.
Yeah, I agree to get intoParliament to actually make
(34:03):
these laws come to fruition anddon't, like the previous caller
said about snowflaking and allthat stuff, Go back to the old
days.
You run riot on the streetswhen you were a kid, right, Yep,
(34:25):
you got into trouble.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Yeah, well and truly you did, Can I?
Speaker 2 (34:30):
just say one thing we had the chance to vote on an
ex-cop and we didn't vote forhim.
And we've also got one here inthis state as well.
Who's in the leader of theopposition?
Who's an ex-cop?
Isn't Brad Batten an?
Speaker 1 (34:41):
ex-cop Brian in Hastings, hello.
Speaker 15 (34:45):
Yes, yeah, I'm on the opposite side of everything,
because what's happened to meis absolutely throwing my world
upside down.
I'm a 65-year-old, disabledpensioner and I've had the I
call myself have come up mydriveway while I'm tinkering
(35:09):
with my new car and, yeah,they've come up with a
breathalyzer and said, oh well,I didn't have a drink or
anything.
Oh, hang on, I'm going to comeon my property.
I'm a diabetic too diabetic onehaving a hypo and I've gone
inside to do what I had to do.
(35:29):
I lost my license for fouryears over this and it's cost me
$4,000 to get a solicitor, andI've had to plead guilty, which
I did because I did refuse abreathalyser in my own driveway.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
I don't know what's going on here, rudy, there's
something a bit weird about that, yeah about the law there.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Without the full context of the whole story, it's
extremely difficult.
I know type 1 diabetes that'shaving a hypoglycemic episode
can certainly present likesomeone who is intoxicated, and
it's one thing that I learnedthe hard way in my career as
well.
Someone who I thought was drunkwas actually having a
hypoglycemic episode.
You've got to be so careful.
You've got to remember too, thecops are not medical
(36:15):
professionals.
No, of course not, and that'swhy they've got a breathalyzer
in their hand, so when you blowin it, it gives you a reading.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Yeah, what about and I'm not too sure what Rudy's
situation may have been, but ifofficers were following that
particular car?
That car turns into a drivewayIf they are suspicious about
that are they allowed to do atest in the driveway?
Yep, because they've seen thatdriver, yep.
So it's not about being in thedriveway necessarily.
No, it's a bit random, it'scontinuous.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
All right, it's continuous.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
We've got to do this.
When we come back more of yourcalls, Come and join us on
Australia Overnight, Roger,would you say.
Based on a lot of the text,would you say imprisonment is a
holiday camp.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
No, not at all.
You're taking a person'sliberty away from them.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
G'day Tony and Roger.
Perhaps we need to lobbygovernments to change laws and
not stop until they do.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
There you go Well I think that's the DNA of what
we're talking about.
We're finished on that, amen.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Thank you for having me.
The laws are going to reflectit.
It's always good.
Have a look at what Roger does.
A healthy shift dot com.
A healthy shift dot com.
We'll talk to you in a coupleof weeks.
We go whining.
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