November 6, 2025 • 55 mins
Text me what you thought of the show 😊
In this episode, we unpack how protective parts like the Inner Critic, Pleaser, and Rescuer quietly fuel burnout among first responders and healthcare workers.
Joining me is Leah Marone, LCSW - psychotherapist, speaker, and author of Serial Fixer, who shares her insights on managing the inner critic, setting emotional boundaries, and creating recovery moments that fit real shifts.
You’ll walk away with science-backed micro-resets and leadership tools that build resilience without the grind or guilt.
In this episode:
- Understanding cyclical burnout patterns and emotional hangovers
- How your inner critic acts as protection from judgment
- Recognizing pleaser and rescuer habits that lead to overextension
- Using shift transitions as effective micro-resets
- Bookending mornings and nights for better recovery
- Applying grounding tools to interrupt rumination
- Debriefing with three problems and solutions for clarity
- Leaders modelling calm urgency and “I” statements
- Practicing support, don’t solve as a form of team care
- Redefining resilience as replenishment, not relentless effort
Connect with Leah at:
Website: https://www.leahmarone.com/
Instagram: @leahmaronelcsw
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leahmaronelcsw/
Book: Serial Fixer
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Disclaimer: Roger Sutherland is not a doctor or a medical professional. Always consult a physician before implementing any strategies mentioned in this podcast. Use of this information is strictly at your own risk. Roger Sutherland will not assume any liability for direct or indirect losses or damages that may result from the use of the information contained in this podcast including but not limited to economic loss, injury, illness, or death.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (01:35):
These parts of us are like our internal bodyguards
that again are trying to protectus from feeling something, and
they generally rather come inway too strong, where they're
giving us 10 bodyguards when wemight need one.
SPEAKER_00 (01:52):
Shift work can be brutal, but it doesn't have to
be.
Welcome to a healthy shift.
My name is Roger Sutherland,certified nutritionist, veteran
law enforcement officer, and24-7 shift worker for almost
four decades.
Through this podcast, I aim toeducate shift workers using
evidence-based methods to notonly survive the rigors of shift
(02:15):
work, but thrive.
My goal is to empower shiftworkers to improve their health
and well-being so they have moreenergy to do the things they
love.
Enjoy today's show.
Today I am joined by LeahMarone, a psychotherapist, a
corporate wellness consultant,and a former Division I athlete
(02:36):
who has spent years helping highperformance to manage stress,
boundaries, and burnout.
Now we're going to unpack somereally important topics today,
like how to manage that innercritic.
And this is something we allneed to know about.
The pleaser, the rescuer,because let's face it, we all
feel like we need to rescueeveryone these days.
And how to use those microresets during your shifts and in
(03:01):
life to regulate your nervoussystem and how to spot the early
warning signs of fatigue beforethey turn into burnout or
compassion fatigue.
Now, whether you're driving towork today, winding down after a
night shift, or you're grabbinga coffee between calls, you will
absolutely get a lot out of thisone.
So sit down, buckle up.
(03:21):
Leah, it is great to have you onthe podcast.
Welcome.
SPEAKER_02 (03:24):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm looking forward to ourconversation.
SPEAKER_00 (03:27):
I am too.
And I'm really pleased thatwe've connected about this.
So before we jump into the topictoday, can you tell us a bit
about your background and thework that you are currently
doing to support people in highstress roles like healthcare and
emergency services?
SPEAKER_02 (03:43):
Sure, absolutely.
So I have a private practice,and a lot of the patients I see
individually for therapy are inthe healthcare sector, are in
fields that require a lot ofempathy and compassion and quick
acting decisions.
So that is a lot of firstresponders, that is a lot of
people where they, you know, canaccess grit and resilience like
(04:04):
that.
And so that has led me to notonly, you know, work with people
therapeutically on an individuallevel, but also provide wellness
workshops and support tononprofit organizations and
teams and corporations on justintegrating mental health within
the culture of their team andtheir organization.
SPEAKER_00 (04:22):
Oh, that's absolutely fantastic.
Now, to those listening, you'veclearly got an American accent.
Whereabouts are you located inthe US?
SPEAKER_02 (04:29):
Yes, I am located in Charlotte, North Carolina on the
East Coast.
SPEAKER_00 (04:33):
God's country.
That's what you would say,wouldn't you?
It's absolutely beautiful there.
And I mean absolutely beautiful.
Very jealous.
Leah, you've worked with leadersand teams around the world.
So what patterns do you oftensee in our first responders when
it comes to things like thisstress and burnout and
perfectionism?
SPEAKER_02 (04:50):
Yes.
I mean, I see a lot of just, youknow, work hard, play hard, like
kind of going in, going all in,which we need to do, especially
in roles such as the listeners,you know, occupy.
But there's almost theseemotional hangovers.
There's this internal balloon,if you will, that constantly
gets filled up to the brim andpops.
And so it's kind of cycling inand out of go, go, go, go, go,
(05:13):
and then you crash and burn.
And then you go, go, go, go, go,and you crash and burn.
So I'm really seeing thiscyclical burnout and
overextension when it comes topeople that are high achievers,
that are performing at a highlevel and that are constantly
serving others and creatingspace.
SPEAKER_00 (05:30):
I'm going to speak from experience from my own
perspective.
I've done 40 years on the frontline myself, and I know that
from my learnings since this andgetting to today, that I didn't
realize that we don't closethose loops, do we?
We just continually take it on,take it on, take it on.
And there's a very famous bookaround this The Body Keeps the
(05:51):
Score.
It literally does, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_02 (05:54):
Absolutely.
And I've really noticed, andmyself included in this, you
know, there's that fierce innercritic component where there's
this internal chatter constantlywith that critic within you
telling you, you know, if youdon't do XYZ, if you don't keep
going, if you don't pushyourself, then you're not being
the best you can be.
Then you're not being that, youknow, A plus professional, then
(06:16):
you're not being that A plusparent.
Then you're not being this.
And so there's this constantpush to keep going and going
because otherwise we're going tohear it from our critic.
And so it's a lot of times theseinternal conflicts of logically,
I know that I need to rest andrecover and maybe set some
boundaries.
But when I try to execute that,there's this other part of me
(06:37):
that swings into action andmakes me feel guilty, makes me
feel weak, makes me feel like ifI do take a break or I say no to
something or I don't give it myall every second of the day,
then I'm not worthy.
I'm not good enough.
SPEAKER_00 (06:49):
Leah, I have clients that are shift-working mothers.
And I think they are the biggestvictims of this situation that
you just literally spoke aboutnow.
They find they just don't haveany time for themselves.
Now, what you've said that theyfeel like they need to be up and
about and going all the time tobe the best version of
(07:12):
themselves, but it's doing thatthat is actually making them not
the best version of themselves,isn't it?
And it's very difficult to getpeople to actually see that.
I'll go to like a mum that'sworking in nursing, doing double
shifts and quick shifts andkeeping up and about and doing
school book week and trying toget them ready for Halloween and
(07:33):
trying to do absolutelyeverything that goes on.
And they're trying to be thebest version of themselves.
They know inside that they'refailing, but they keep on doing
it.
How can they check in withthemselves and put a strategy in
place to start off with thatgoes, okay, we need to sit for
five minutes?
SPEAKER_02 (07:50):
Absolutely.
I think there's two differentthings I'd love to share on
that.
The first thing is like reallyrecognizing how you are showing
up to interactions with people,or if you are just taking the
bait.
And what I mean by that is ifyou know your kid sighs or your
child is like, oh, just showsany type of distress.
(08:11):
We immediately take that baitbecause we have the strong
association that my kid isexperiencing something
uncomfortable.
And if I am not immediately ableto soothe and fix and solve it,
then I'm probably not doing myjob and I'm not a good mother.
And so we take these momentswhere someone may ask us a
question, someone may sharedistress or something
uncomfortable, and weimmediately jump into fixing and
(08:35):
solving and being five stepsahead rather than meeting the
person and the situation and theemotion where it is.
And so you'll find that peoplewith high levels of grit, of
go-getter, you know, highemotional intelligence, they're
putting themselves in situationswhere they're trying to fix and
solve to eliminate some distressand discomfort within them.
(08:56):
If my child is soothed, if mychild has what they need, if my
child is fine, then I have achance to be fine.
And so you can see where we'reconstantly trying to be two
steps ahead of everything inorder to chase this fabricated
recovery and break.
But then when it might come, wefeel that too because we're
bombarded with wait, you'regonna relax.
(09:17):
There's so much other things todo.
You can't relax.
And so that's kind of the firstframework that I'm sure we'll
delve into.
But the other one, moretangibly, is every crack and
crevice of the day, everytransition, which we all have
dozens, whether we're walkinginto another room, we're, you
know, moving from home to work,we are, you know, moving from
(09:38):
role to role, we areconditioning ourselves to
constantly fill those moments oftransition with something our
brain kind of deems asproductive.
We're on our phone, we'rechecking news updates, we're
checking our email, we're doingthis.
And even when we're just walkingto get the mail or going, you
know, into the grocery store,we're cluttering this with
consumption.
(09:59):
And if we would just take aminute to think about these
natural transitions as microresets and times that we can
take a breath, times that we canaccess our senses, and times
that we can just be one with ourenvironment, it really starts to
clear proactively our internalclutter and help immensely with
getting in shape with beingpresent.
SPEAKER_00 (10:19):
You are speaking by language here.
I love this because I neverconsidered them as transitions.
And they are every time we go todo something, we are
transitioning, but we're notgiving ourselves a chance to
transition into what we'reactually doing.
And we are distracted bythinking about other things
while we're trying to do thething, aren't we?
(10:39):
We're doing this all the time.
We're in the supermarket, butwe're thinking about what little
Johnny's doing, or we're withlittle Johnny and we're thinking
about what to cook for dinner,or we're not actually giving
ourselves a chance to check inwith ourselves and go, right,
here I am.
This is what I'm doing, this iswhat I'm focusing on, because we
live in a very busy societytoday, but we've created this
(11:02):
ourselves.
I've got no doubt, and ourphones do this, I'm sure of it.
Many frontline workers have thatlike an always-on mindset.
I know I experience myself, andI see this in nursing, I see it
in frontline health, and also inour first responders.
Now, they keep on pushingthrough, and we spoke about the
mums.
They take care of everyoneelse's needs.
(11:23):
Nurses are taking care ofpatients' needs, police are
doing their jobs, et cetera, butthey're ignoring what they need
themselves.
Now, can you explain what it isthat's really happening under
the hood here?
SPEAKER_02 (11:36):
Absolutely.
And you nailed it.
I mean, it's like when you'rekind of in that line of work and
you're constantly looking atexternal things and sometimes
emergency situations and urgentthings to structure you and
provide you with a role to kickyou into that problem-solving,
you know, role, which you needto execute.
That, to your point, isincredibly hard to turn off.
(11:59):
And you can see where that partof us, when we are executing
externally and we are five stepsahead, we can very quickly
assess this is what needs tohappen.
We are fulfilling almost thissense of purpose, which
rightfully so, but fulfillingthis sense of purpose where it
justifies kind of omitting andnot really going inside to do
(12:22):
the internal work because we'reso busy and we're checking the
boxes and we're seeing all theproductivity externally.
And so when it is time to lookinternally, or we're hearing the
bells and whistles from our bodyand our mind, sometimes we're
just in this cycle where it'slike I'm feeling the tightness
of my chest, I'm feeling theexhaustion, but I don't know how
(12:43):
to go in there.
It's too overwhelming.
So I'm gonna find somethingexternally to fixate on that
will give me a role out herethat I can feel purposeful,
connection, and still it's gonnakind of give me that numbing
band-aid effect.
SPEAKER_00 (12:56):
Absolutely fantastic.
I've got a classic example ofthis.
As a police man of 40 years, myrole at work is see problem,
solve problem, do it veryquickly.
So when I would get home and mypartner would say to me, This is
an issue, I'd go, see problem,solve problem, move on.
(13:16):
But that's not what she wanted.
She just wanted an ear, and thiscreates conflict, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_02 (13:21):
Yes, it does.
And it's so hard to switch thatoff.
And, you know, I think when youare, you're dealing with kind of
(14:49):
your partner, your children, youknow, kind of you're outside of
that professional role.
That's why I think capitalizingon those transitions and really
practicing and getting your repsin with getting in shape on that
level and, you know, kind ofdebriefing yourself, validating
the efforts, the work that youdid, you know, debriefing with a
colleague if you need to,because something was incredibly
intense.
You know, we're not honoringthat so that we can go into
(15:11):
these other roles that requiredifferent skill sets sometimes,
you know, with a little bit of amore end of an empty tank,
right?
Or a fuller tank.
SPEAKER_00 (15:20):
Now, you know, Leah, and you're gonna relate to this.
See, men and women are sodifferent this way.
Like when a man and a woman goesto bed, right, at the end of the
day, the man is gonna roll overand go to sleep.
End of story.
The woman, that's where she'sgonna have the committee
meetings and wants to have thediscussions about now, Johnny's
doing this at school, Sarah'sdoing this, and this is what's
(15:40):
happening.
He's not interested at thatstage.
Or he will say, Here's theproblem, here's the solution,
good night, I'm off to sleep.
It's so common, but we can't dothat because that's not our
role.
And this is where we're nottransitioning from the working
Rodge to the home husband,partner, father Raj.
Now, you talk about the innercritic, the pleaser, the
(16:03):
rescuer.
This is very common threadsright through what you do.
And I think this is reallyimportant for us to unpack this
because knowledge is power andlearning about what these voices
are and how to deal with them ispart of the battle.
How is it these voices will showup in first responders or our
health professionals?
SPEAKER_02 (16:23):
Right.
And they're very powerful.
You know, there's differentparts of us that are really
motivated by different thingsand trying to protect us from
different things.
So if you think about your innercritic, like that, you know,
stereotypically, and I know forme as well, like it's protecting
me from stagnation.
It's protecting me from beingjudged negatively, it's
protecting me from not doing mybest, it's protecting me from
(16:46):
negative judgment and scrutinyfrom others.
And so that part of me, I thinkI was taught, unfortunately, at
a young age, and even as anathlete, when that critic was
incredibly loud, I hear thingslike Leah, just ignore it.
Leah, just don't worry about it.
You know, Leah, just kind ofdistract yourself and get into
that a better mindset.
And I couldn't bring myself todo it when it was time to
(17:08):
execute.
And I thought something waswrong with me, and it was
excruciatingly painful andanxiety-driven.
And I just thought something waswrong.
And I've learned that theseparts of us are like our
internal bodyguards that againare trying to protect us from
feeling something, and theygenerally rather come in way too
strong, where they're giving us10 bodyguards when we might need
(17:29):
one.
And so, really, it's this wholereframe of not hating these
parts, not trying to get rid ofthem, not trying to silence
them.
It's actually acknowledging andshowing appreciation that these
parts of us are working veryhard for probably a good reason
from something in our past.
And our job is to align andsoothe them and start to do
(17:51):
these little experiments wherewe're playing with boundaries,
we're trying to do differentthings so they start to trust us
and start to calm down.
And that's where you'll seeanxiety go down, that's where
you'll see more of a balance andlike the recalibration work that
we try to do actually becomesuccessful.
SPEAKER_00 (18:10):
Fantastic.
Now, is an example of this theperson that knows that they
should be doing something, butthey can't bring themselves to
do it.
That's your inner critic.
And they start bullyingthemselves, as in, oh, you're
hopeless, oh, you're no good,what are you doing this for?
You know you should be doingthis, but you're not doing that.
And then they give up.
So that is your inner critic,isn't it?
(18:31):
And this is where we need to notfight against it and criticize
ourselves.
I always talk to clients likethis, Leah, about nobody likes a
bully.
If someone stood in front of youand spoke to you the way you
speak to yourself, you wouldslap them down so many times.
You would never allow agirlfriend or a friend to talk
(18:54):
to you the way you speak toyourself.
And you think it's okay to do itto yourself, but it hurts when
somebody else does it.
So you are hurting yourself bydoing it as well.
And I think, am I correct insaying what you're saying is
acknowledging this, recognizingthis, and going with it instead
of fighting against it and beingcritical of yourself.
Is that what you're saying?
SPEAKER_02 (19:13):
It is.
And it takes a lot of practiceand repetitions to get this part
to trust you and get on board.
You know, if you kind of takethe example of, and I know many
of your listeners probably havetheir physical routines well
intact, but let's say that, youknow, Sunday, you think, you
know what, enough is enough.
This week, I'm gonna get upearly in the morning before work
and I'm gonna work out.
Enough is enough.
(19:34):
I'm in my 40s.
How can I have not had thistogether yet?
And you have this grand planalmost filled with some
rigidity.
Your workout plan, I'm not gonnaeat this, I'm gonna do this.
Okay, here we go.
I'm all on board.
And then your alarm goes offearly in the morning on Monday.
And another part of you that'smotivated and trying to protect
something totally different,like your peace, your warmth,
the fact that, like, well, wedidn't sleep really well.
(19:56):
We know we get cranky, andreally is a morning workout
gonna do much of anything.
We might as well just startanother day or not do it at all.
And that right there, you know,you decide to turn off the alarm
and skip the workout, and yourcritic's gonna be on you later
in the day.
What the heck?
We had a great plan.
Why didn't you execute?
And this is a great example ofkind of these different parts of
us that surface and create theseinternal conflicts.
(20:18):
And I think our job is toacknowledge what each of these
conflicting parts of us aretrying to protect, are motivated
by.
And it's not a matter of likeswinging from one to the other.
It's a matter of kind of beingyour own mediator between these
parts.
Maybe I'm not gonna be rigid andwork out every single morning
early, but I also know I'm gonnahear it from my critic if I
don't do something.
(20:38):
So maybe I'm gonna compromise.
And there's gonna be a few daysa week that I do get up and I'm
gonna soothe that part of me andthe critical part of me, but I'm
also gonna acknowledge that somemornings I would like to stay in
bed a little longer because I'mworking my ass off.
SPEAKER_00 (20:50):
Yeah, I've had a busy three or four shifts and
I'm exhausted and I need torest.
I get that.
Right.
I mean, discipline comes beforethe action that we do.
So, what are some practical waysthat we can recognize when these
internal voices are starting torun the show?
Like this critic, as you said,the example that you gave,
you've said that basically we'vegot to negotiate with it as
(21:12):
well.
How do we get to the stage wherewe're actually calling ourselves
out on our own BS?
SPEAKER_02 (21:17):
Right.
I think when we find ourselvesin this very negative self-talk
thought loop, when we also findthat ourselves very stuck in the
past, ruminating and trying togain closure with things and
fill in the gaps of maybesomething that we necessarily
can't, or we're way in thefuture and our critic is feeding
us, you know, again, theseanxious, very over-dramatic
(21:38):
scenarios so that we can beprepared for everything under
the sun.
And those are really goodindicators because, again,
Roger, it's pulling us away fromthe present.
It's leading us to be fixated onthe what-ifs of the future, and
it's protecting us again,overdoing it from all these
things we are so desperatelytrying not to feel.
And the same thing through thepast.
(21:59):
So that's a huge indicator.
And you brought up a great pointabout if you're at the grocery
store, if you're with your kid,but you are somewhere else.
You're already planning andthinking about three days from
now, you know, even three hoursfrom now, you know, some of that
is necessary as you'remultitasking different roles and
going from one thing to thenext.
But when you're consistentlymissing out and, you know, not
(22:22):
collecting data and combiningand connecting with people, that
too is a big indicator that yourprotective parts have too much
internal real estate.
SPEAKER_00 (22:30):
I think a classic example of how to recognize that
this is going on is notremembering where you were and
why you were there and what youwere doing.
And when you go into thesupermarket and then you get
back out into your car and youthink, I went in to get tomatoes
and I didn't get the tomatoes.
Right?
I got everything else, but Ididn't get the tomatoes.
(22:50):
This is a classic example of younot being present, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02 (22:54):
Absolutely.
And you know, again, it's notthat you're gonna nail it every
time.
And if that happens to you onoccasion, it's okay.
But if this is something that'sa constant pattern, it's a
really good data point to makenote of, not judge, but make
note of, and then again, makesome adjustments and think about
how I can use that data toexperiment with myself and take
(23:16):
different steps to see how Ithen respond.
SPEAKER_00 (23:19):
So, how can you quiten it, Dan?
Like you're in the shop, you'rewandering around, and you're one
of those people that can checkin with yourself and your
phone's going off, and you know,someone's calling or someone's
text, and you're starting tothink about that.
How do we quiten the voice?
What do we do?
SPEAKER_02 (23:33):
Yeah, because it is.
I mean, every puff of air isfilling up our internal balloon,
and then one last thing is gonnamake us blow.
And so I do, I think,practicing, you know, kind of
being your own commentator,where you're just like almost
either verbally or in your mind,just calling out like what
you're doing step by step.
I'm at the grocery, here's mylist.
(23:54):
I'm gonna put my phone onsilence so that I can prevent
some interruptions.
If I constantly am bombardedwith a certain to-do or a
certain thought that is notreally relates to where I am,
I'm gonna just take a real quicknote, write it down on my piece
of paper or my note, my grocerylist to validate it, but set a
boundary that not here, not now.
And so it's these little tricksagain to as you transition to
(24:15):
things, notice all the things infront of you that might be a
potential interruption ordistraction, pulling you away
from what you really want to befocused on, the task that you
want to execute from start tofinish.
I think also just tapping intoyour senses, right?
I mean, this is something I dowith athletes all the time.
And it's been such a long-termcoping technique that I mean
(24:39):
it's been around forever, but itworks when you start to feel
overwhelmed or in futuristicthinking and you're just not
present with anything thatyou're doing.
Start to go through your senses.
What do I see?
Maybe even naming the colors ofthe rainbow.
What's something red?
What's something orange?
What do I smell?
How does my body feel?
Is it cold in here?
(24:59):
You know, what do I hear?
And just thinking through andsensorily grabbing that data
moves you into a different partof your brain and gives you that
micro reset to be where you are.
SPEAKER_00 (25:10):
Now, I learned this.
We had a discussion before westarted this from my
psychotherapist.
Name five things you can see,name four things you can hear,
because it brings you back intothe present.
Now, where my finger's pointingthere, that is a coin, which is
a PTSD coin right there.
And that coin on the back of thecoin, it has what can you see?
What can you hear?
What can you see?
(25:31):
When you start to get thatanxiety attack and you start to
feel that overwhelmed byliterally that tactile feel of
what can you see, what can youhear?
It really does bring you back towhere you are.
And I think using the example ofin the supermarket with little
Johnny and you've finished yourshift and your brain's going a
million miles an hour and youwalk into the supermarket, name
(25:54):
five things you can see.
What are four things that youcan hear?
What are three things that youcan smell?
You know what I mean?
Like as you're walking through,because it brings you back to
where you are.
And I think the putting thephone on silent for the 15
minutes that you're going to bein the supermarket, because you
can do this, you're a shiftworker, you can get in and out
in 15 minutes, get in and out.
You're not missing anything in15 minutes.
(26:15):
You can take it off, do notdisturb, when you get out back
into the car.
If you've got to have a look atit, then great.
If you feel that you're thatconnected and you need to be
that connected, but how manypeople open their phone, all of
a sudden they're scrollingInstagram, they're standing in
aisle six in the supermarket,they can't even remember why
they're there.
It's their own fault, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02 (26:33):
Yeah.
It's just welcoming thosedisruptions and those
interruptions.
And it is, you make such a goodpoint about, you know, that
right there is a perfect exampleof experimenting with yourself
when you kind of say, you knowwhat, this time at the grocery
store or this time when I'm at ared stoplight, I am going to
refrain from pulling out myphone.
I'm going to try to just noticewhat I see.
(26:56):
And that part of you that'sprotective, and maybe the part
of you that's critical, like,no, no, no, no, no.
You need to make sure you're ontop of your email.
You need to make sure that youdon't miss a text.
What if you don't answersomething?
That's the part of you that youhave to soothe and say, we are
experimenting with something.
We are going to notice how wefeel after this and take some
note.
And generally, you'll noticethat you're like, nothing
(27:18):
catastrophic happened.
I actually feel a little calmerand the world didn't blow up.
And enough of those experiences,enough of those repetitions and
you sticking with it, thatstarts to soothe that urgent,
critical, over-obsessive part ofyou.
SPEAKER_00 (27:37):
I love this.
You're negotiating withyourself.
How am I going to feel?
I'm going to try this.
I'm going to get to the redlight.
I'm going to stop there.
And I'm going to talk to Johnnyin the back.
I'm going to look in the rearvision mirror and I'm going to
say, How are you feeling?
And I'm going to have aconversation with him and be
present.
And then you're present in thatcar instead of being distracted
with who you're on the phone toor whatever.
This is great.
(27:57):
I hope you're enjoying the show.
If you are, please don't forgetto rate and review once you've
finished.
This helps the show's reachenormously.
And have you got my free ebook,The Best Way to Eat on Night
Shift?
Well, this is a comprehensiveguide to the overnight fast, why
we should fast and how to bestgo about it.
(28:17):
I've even included a few recipesto help you.
I've put a link to the ebook inthe show notes.
And are you really strugglingwith shift work and feel like
you're just crawling from oneshift to the next?
Well, I've got you.
If you would like to work withme, I can coach you to thrive,
not just survive, whileundertaking the rigours of 24-7
(28:38):
shift work.
I also conduct in-house livehealth and well-being seminars
where I will come to yourworkplace and deliver
evidence-based information tohelp your well-being team to
reduce unplanned leave andincrease productivity in your
workplace.
I've put the links in the shownotes to everything mentioned.
(28:59):
You can find me athealthyshift.com or on Instagram
at a underscorehealthyunderscore shift.
Now let's get back to the show.
Let's move on to the next one,which is the person who is the
pleaser or the rescuer, right?
Someone who's listening who'salways felt responsible for
(29:21):
everyone else.
And I think my mum, not my mummum, but my shift-working mum
that's got children as well is aclassic for this.
Always feels responsible foreveryone else.
How do they, in their roles,start setting boundaries for
that feeling guilty or selfish?
Just this is something that mumsreally feel.
SPEAKER_02 (29:41):
Oh, absolutely.
And I've had to work hard atthis myself.
And you think about it'sgenerally something that pops up
and we make this strongassociation depending on just
our childhood and who we wereraised by and kind of the
culture of our family unit,right?
And if we kind of recognizeright away if we can be two
steps ahead, if we can noticethat someone else in our family
(30:02):
might need soothe, or if we cando something to calm them down,
then we can access calm.
And so it's a matter of kind offixing and soothing and solving
out here with the people thatwere around, so that then we can
get some calm.
And it is, it's that serialfixing behavior.
And it's, you know, I don'twant, I can endure, I will
(30:23):
adjust, I will accommodate,because if I create a conflict,
if I feed a conflict, I'm gonnafeel something uncomfortable.
So I'll just internalize, I willmake do as long as they're
happy.
And this narrative and thesevery rigid associations keep us
in these patterns of serialfixing, of jumping in to fix and
(30:45):
solve and over-accommodate.
And really, again, it servesthis purpose and connection of
like, this is what good moms do.
This is what, you know, nicepeople do.
And I don't want to be seen asanything other than kind.
And so I'm going to sacrifice myown needs or never even be in
touch with them to kind of, youknow, have that sense of
connection and make sureeveryone else has me in their
(31:06):
good graces.
SPEAKER_00 (31:07):
Leah, I see this with mums.
They think they're doing areally good job.
And don't get me wrong, theythink they're doing a really
good job, but they're beingjudged by their peers as an
absolute scatterbrain becausethey're so busy trying to keep
everybody else happy that theyare all over the place.
They're not present, they don'tremember conversations, they
don't turn up on time to wherethey're supposed to be because
(31:27):
they are literally completelyscatterbrained, and they can't
see that that's not turning upas the best version of
themselves, which is whatthey're trying to do, and that's
the conflict that they're havingthemselves.
Now, we've spoken about microresets and how powerful a micro
reset can actually be.
And I loved even the lights.
Let's just try this at astoplight because it's a
(31:49):
30-second or 40-second cycle.
But now that shows that you canmake a big change in 30 or 40
seconds that can be a real, ohmy God, that made a big
difference to me.
So now shift workers don't logoff for a break because most
frontline health get a breakwhen they can.
First responders get a breakwhen they can.
They don't get this long breakwhere they can have lunch and
(32:10):
then go and sit in a room for 15minutes and do some breathing
exercises.
So, what are a few examples ofsome simple resets that they
could bring about at home aswell as at work?
Because work can be up and go,but we need to do it at home as
well, because we're makingourselves very busy at home at
the same time.
SPEAKER_02 (32:28):
Absolutely.
And this is going to take somerecalibrating, this is going to
take some repetitions.
But you're right.
I mean, the nature of the work,you know, the people listening,
like it does.
It sounds like you are on andyou need to be on, you know, for
other people's safety and justthe amazing work that you're
doing.
And so if you're able to kind ofhave some downtime, which I know
is very hard sometimes toaccess, you can practice these
(32:48):
micro resets.
You know, you can identify likewhat I can do to kind of reset
and tap in with myself.
But if you know, it is somethingthat You're like, that's
probably not gonna happen whileI'm on the clock.
Think about bookending your dayand having an AM bookend and a
PM bookend while acknowledgingthat the middle of those two
bookends might be a chaotic messthat you can't control much of,
(33:10):
right?
And you're on in a very highlevel.
And so, but an AM bookend, it'snot this elaborate, like
time-sucking act.
But what it is is it's takingsomething that you already
probably do in the morning, likemaybe take a shower or brush
your teeth or have your cup oftea.
And think about while I'm doingthese things to prepare myself
(33:32):
for the day.
Am I also multitasking?
Am I having my cup of tea andpacking my lunch and letting the
dog out and feeding my kids anddoing this and checking my
email?
I love my cup of tea.
What if I just experimented,carved out five minutes to be
present and enjoy my cup of tea?
SPEAKER_00 (33:51):
You won't actually enjoy it.
SPEAKER_02 (33:53):
Yeah.
That's right.
You may taste it and rememberyou even had it.
And your critic's gonna beyelling at you, oh my gosh,
you're gonna be late, you needto do this, no one's gonna have
this.
But you know that's coming, andthat's your job than to soothe
and say, We're trying something.
This doesn't mean we're doingthis for the rest of our days,
but we might if this works out.
And so having something in theAM and then having something in
(34:14):
the PM that you're notmultitasking.
If you like to watch a show atthe end of the night, watch your
show.
Don't be on your phone as well,and eating and doing this, and
you know, all these thingsbecause it's canceling out the
recovery and relaxation timethat you so willingly deserve.
SPEAKER_00 (34:32):
Again, a busy mum, even all shift workers, they
think they've got the kids, theygo home, they deal with the
family, everything happens, thenthey get into bed and then they
grab their mobile phone and theystart scrolling on their mobile
phone to relax.
What?
Like the mobile phone is notrelaxing you.
I know you think it's my time,this is me time now, I'm gonna
(34:53):
catch up.
But what you don't realize isthe actual added stresses that
that is actually adding.
If you were literally to lie inbed and go, that's the end of
the day, fantastic.
One hand on the navel, one handon the chest, breathe down into
the hand, you'll be asleepwithin five seconds, and that is
your U time.
That is the most important Utime that you can possibly get.
(35:14):
A good, you've informed yourautonomic nervous system,
everything's safe.
We can go to sleep, we're good.
I think this is where we makemassive mistakes.
We see in working places, and Iwant to talk to leaders and
managers at the same time hereto create a culture of resetting
in their place.
(35:34):
How can they encourage this?
I've got people that listen tothis podcast that are actually
stepping into leadership roles.
And one of the things that Iwant to bring with this podcast
is I want to educate leaderswhat to look for in their staff
so that they can build a cultureof people who are healthy
mentally as well as physicallyin their workplace.
(35:55):
How can they encourage a kind ofreset culture in their team?
unknown (35:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (36:00):
Oh, such a great question.
And I think again, you know, theanswer truly is what you're
modeling makes a huge impact inthe culture of your team.
It makes a huge impact becausepeople are watching.
They're watching, you know, ifeverything that you do seems to
be interwoven with urgency,whether it's warranted or not.
(36:20):
They are seeing if you truly areexecuting effective listening
skills, or if you're jumping inout of frustration and loss of
patience and trying to fix andsolve and not give your
employees and team members therepetitions they need to build
inner trust and confidence withwhat they're doing as a
professional.
I think too, what leaders arealmost hesitant to do this, but
we're here, we're better, we'regood enough for this now, is
(36:42):
where leaders really need tostart asking questions like,
what lets you know when you'restressed or when you're
overloaded, or what can I do asyour manager to support that?
This is really important becausewe don't want you to, you know,
be on the verge of burnout andcycle in and out of, you know,
overextension and cyclicalexhaustion.
So, what are some things you'velearned about yourself that
(37:04):
you're alerted that you'restressed or that you're
overdoing it?
Those types of conversations,again, you're not having many
therapy sessions, you're nottrying to fix and solve, you're
not trying to, you know, go intoterritory that you're like,
well, I don't know how to dothat.
But it's letting people knowthat like we want to get ahead
of these things.
We want you to have theemotional intelligence, we want
you to have the self-connectionto be able to observe these
(37:26):
things and start integratingboundaries that are not going to
like be a shield where you'relike, well, I can't work today.
No, that's not what we're after.
We're after accessing more gritand resilience and
collaboration.
And so these conversations haveto happen way out of the gate
and not as a reactive component.
SPEAKER_00 (37:43):
Yeah, I agree.
And in a debrief at the end of amajor job, because a lot of
places have debriefs now, don'tthey?
It's become a thing, but I don'tthink they're being used
correctly at all.
Well done, Johnny.
You did a great job.
Frank, you did a great job aswell.
What about at the end of thatdebrief saying, Johnny, what are
you going to do to reset now?
What are you going to do whenyou knock off today?
What are you going to do to justcalm yourself and do whatever?
(38:06):
And making these conversationspart of the debrief.
And I think this is somethingthat would be a really good
initiative for leaders to bringin because it shows compassion
for your crew at the same time.
It's not, oh, Johnny, I'mworried about you.
I think you need to dosomething.
It's not about that.
It's, hey, what are we doing toreset who's doing what?
Agree with that?
SPEAKER_02 (38:25):
Oh, absolutely.
And just those debrief moments.
And I think kind of actively asa team and encouraging
individuals to almost debriefand kind of, you know, write
lists and validate theirefforts, you know, leave things
on the table that they maybeneed to tend to the next day.
Because that, when we're aheadof that, when we kind of start
clearing that clutter as wetransition to our home roles and
(38:47):
things that, you know, areoutside of our professional
roles, that's not what is goingto visit us when we lay down to
go to sleep.
And we won't be as you knowlikely to pull out our phone as
a numbing agent because we don'twant to think about all the
things that we didn't do or thatwere critical of our day.
If we took the time to debrief,if we took the time to say, this
isn't done, I need to send thisemail tomorrow.
(39:09):
I need to do X, Y, and Z when Iwill do this tomorrow when I'm
firing all cylinders.
We have something to refer to inthe evening when that critic is
like, Whoa, you didn't do this.
Whoa, you better do this, whoa.
And you're up spinning.
SPEAKER_00 (39:21):
Yeah.
And that's why in my journalprompt, because I've got a shift
workers journal that I give toclients, the first three
questions that ask is what arethree problems and three
solutions?
And the reason why I do that isbecause they can then just dot
point.
It doesn't have to be a greatbig script.
It's just a dot point.
Because exactly what you havejust said, you're going to be
critical.
I didn't do this today, I didn'tdo this today.
(39:41):
But the thing is, you've writtendown what the problem is and
you've written yourself asolution for tomorrow to address
it.
Once it's on paper and it's downon the bedside table, your brain
lets it go, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_02 (39:52):
It does.
It does.
And it's so interesting becausewhen I'm in those moments, gosh,
it's like going on midnight, andI'm like, why can't I sleep?
I'm going to be so tired.
I have learned to ask myself,Leah, what are you not trusting?
SPEAKER_00 (40:06):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (40:07):
What are you not trusting about your ability?
And if you didn't sleep allnight, do you think you're just
going to crash and burn?
No, you're going to not befiring maybe on all cylinders as
you like, but you've been ableto get through hard stuff
before.
And so it's really actuallyasking yourself and those
protective parts, like, what amI not trusting about myself?
And that gives you a whole newset and filter to kind of work
(40:29):
with.
SPEAKER_00 (40:30):
Because it's really hard to convince yourself that
you don't trust yourself.
Isn't it?
Well, it is.
It's really hard to convinceyourself because, and this once
again comes down to a mindfulpractice.
And this is another thing thatI've learned in my own arsenal,
my own toolkit, to check in andbe mindful.
Why are you like this?
Why are you catastrophizingthis?
(40:50):
You're here today, you are 61years old, and you've got to
this particular point.
You've survived every singlething that's been thrown at you.
What makes you think you're notgoing to get through this?
And it's so typical that we do.
We have these arguments and wecatastrophize.
It is human nature tocatastrophize.
But I think just askingyourself, is what I'm telling
myself the truth?
(41:11):
I think is the key, isn't it?
Is this the truth?
Like, is it really what is goingto happen?
And you know it's not.
You know it's not.
Yeah.
Right?
So now I'm working in anenvironment now, and you know,
you notice signs of fatigue inpeople, irritability, emotional
detachment.
What is one of the first stepsthat a person can take?
Because I know one thing thatI've learned with shift workers
(41:31):
in so many different areas isthey wait until they're
absolutely burnt out and at thebottom of the barrel and can't
recover before they dosomething.
Where's the first step for us totake to start finding our way
out of this?
SPEAKER_02 (41:44):
And I really would.
I really like that whole analogyof kind of thinking of balloon
in your belly and thingsthroughout the day, you know,
even minor in isolation, eitheradd air to your balloon or, you
know, let air out.
If you get a nice smile from ateammate, you're like, ah,
little air let out.
We had a sense of connection.
If you forgot your lunch athome, it's like, oh, there's
some air in your balloon.
You know, these little thingsand sometimes big things really
(42:05):
are kind of filtrating air inand out of our internal balloon.
And it is a matter of reallyacknowledging when you make an
effort to have a pause, topractice a micro reset, to get
in that workout, to do somethingfor yourself and you were
present with.
(42:40):
So I would think about, youknow, if that analogy works for
you, think about ways that,okay, yeah, I'm definitely
walking around with a fullballoon.
What are some things that I cando to let some air out?
And it doesn't have to be thismonumental thing, but that can
be so helpful in your proactiveregulation so that you aren't
just leaving your body and mindto its own devices and waiting
(43:01):
for that balloon pop.
SPEAKER_00 (43:03):
I love the balloon.
I'm going to be using this incoaching moving forward.
I think it's so fantasticbecause I'm going to ask
clients, where's your balloonat?
And what are you doing to letthe air out?
It's coming in all the time, butwhat are you doing to let the
air out of it?
How can teams support each otherin noticing and responding to
these early cues?
Because we're all working aroundeach other rather than waiting
until someone actually crashesand burns.
SPEAKER_02 (43:24):
Right, right.
I think the biggest thing isagain, our jobs are not to jump
in to fix and solve, our jobsare to support.
You know, it's support, don'tsolve.
And I think the best thing youcan do is that, you know, you
probably know each other wellenough.
And when you start to see someshifts and maybe some consistent
shifts that you're a littlenervous about, that you're
(43:45):
noticing, that's data thatyou're collecting with someone
that you really you work closelywith, that you care about.
And it's using those Istatements.
I've noticed that the past weekor so that you've seen lower
with energy, that you don't seemas talkative.
I've noticed these things.
You're sharing the data pointsyou've collected without
judgment, without coming in tosay, like, you know, so buck up
(44:06):
because you're putting a damperon the vibe here.
It's just calling these thingsout and seeing how they respond.
And if they're like, Yeah, no, Ihave.
I've been lower on energy.
And that's where again it's kindof like, is there anything that
you'd like to share?
Is there anything I can do tosupport?
And so it's coming with thatempathy and compassion and that
patience and trying to take thatpressure off of you to try to
(44:27):
fix and solve and say the rightthing.
It's sharing with them throughthose I statements what you're
noticing and the shifts and thatyou care.
SPEAKER_00 (44:34):
An I statement.
I love this so good because youcan't be critical of the person.
You send them further away, youcause bigger problems if you're
critical of them, or if you makea mockery of it, like you really
are a cancer on the team at themoment, you know, like you're
flat as attack.
What's going on?
Like, that's not the way to goabout it.
Even to the most brutal ofpeople, because once their
(44:55):
resilience is gone, which is thereason why they are, they're not
going to take it the way theywould have taken it 12 months
ago, two years ago.
So you've got to be a little bitcareful of all of this.
And the I statement is reallygood advice.
I've noticed this, or I see yousitting away from other people
all the time.
Are you okay?
What's going on?
And then to go the next stepwith that as well.
(45:18):
I think when you ask a person,I've noticed, and they go, I'm
fine.
I think the next steppersonally, and I just commented
on a post in relation to this, Ithink the next step is to
actually show your ownvulnerability and show that you
know that you've had thesemoments where you're really
struggling yourself and you'venot been able to get up.
And how do they feel about that?
If they notice that inthemselves, and sometimes that
(45:39):
vulnerability in yourself canactually open people right up,
which is what my own journey,particularly over the last 10
years, has really taught me.
So, and this is how we cansupport each other.
And my next question was how canteams support each other in
noticing and responding to theseLEQs rather than waiting until
someone crashes?
And I think having theseconversations, I honestly
believe that this comes fromleadership.
(46:01):
And I think leaders standingthere and showing their own
vulnerability and saying, okay,what are we doing to reset?
Or even now you might think thisis happy clapper and woo-hoo,
but I can tell you now it works.
At the end of a session, right,everyone stand there, hand on
your stomach, breathe in forfour.
SPEAKER_01 (46:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (46:16):
You know what I mean?
Like everyone's gonna go, what?
But once they walk away, they'regonna go, God, I feel so good.
And that took two minutes.
unknown (46:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (46:22):
You know?
SPEAKER_02 (46:23):
That's a great thing, and it's unity, and
everyone's doing it together,and you do, you feel that
really.
No one's unique.
SPEAKER_00 (46:28):
It's not like everyone sitting watching
someone in the watch commander'sglass bowl, standing there doing
breath work and thinking, oh,Johnny's suffering, you know.
Everyone's doing it together,and the boss can stand there and
look around and go, get on withit.
You're not doing it, do this,and brings everyone in.
I think it would really help.
Yeah.
Now you've said resilience isnot about toughness, Leah.
(46:49):
I agree with that.
I don't think resilience is,bro.
It's about recovery and whatstrategies you can put in place
and how you can recover.
What does real resilience looklike for someone in a 24-7 role
today?
It's hectic today.
SPEAKER_02 (47:02):
Oh my gosh.
I mean, it is that ability toaccess that grit and that focus
and push through and stay in therole that you're in and execute.
I mean, that is resilient ashell.
But it's also that ability toacknowledge like I worked really
hard, I was firing again on allcylinders, I'm physically,
emotionally, mentally drained,and that's not a weakness.
(47:24):
And now my job is to replenishso that I can do that all again.
Yep.
It's like, you know, if you havean intense workout and you're
sore the next day, that feelsgood in a way.
You know, you worked hard, yourmuscles need to repair a bit,
and you need to do things inorder to get them back to a
place where you can maybe liftthat heavy in two or three days.
And so it's kind of that samething when you think about your
(47:45):
mental health as well.
And it really, truly is.
I mean, the most resilientpeople that I know are the most
self-aware, and they're able to,you know, kind of break through
some of those very rigidassociations we have with I'm
weak or I'm selfish, or I, youknow, am not doing other people
justice if I pause and dosomething to replenish and
(48:08):
recover for me.
SPEAKER_00 (48:09):
Yeah, so important.
And again, it comes back to thatmindful practice, doesn't it?
It's just being mindful, havingthe knowledge that it's okay to
do this and actually do it.
Checking in with yourself allthe time.
I do this around nutrition withhunger.
Just ask yourself, am I actuallyhungry?
Am I actually hungry?
Because that can stop a lot ofpeople from just snacking
(48:30):
mindlessly as well.
Is there anything that wehaven't covered that you would
like to speak about before Ifinalize and close out of the
podcast today?
SPEAKER_02 (48:40):
I think too, just you know, we were talking a
little bit about like kind ofwith your team and checking in.
And I think too, you know, I'venoticed sometimes with myself,
if I'm really focused and goingthrough something that is very
challenging and taxing, that Idon't necessarily want to answer
when someone asks me, Are youokay?
Because I don't want to falter.
I don't want to lose thatmomentum.
I need to stay focused.
(49:01):
And I would say on the otherside of that, if you are with
someone that you can see thatthey are like struggling,
they're burning it out at bothends, but they're determined to
get through that week, thatproject, whatever it is, I think
it's very helpful sometimes tosay, Can I circle back with you?
Can I check in with you in a fewdays?
Or can I check in with you latertoday?
(49:23):
Because we don't want to derail.
We don't want to, you know, ifsomeone is zeroed in and there's
like this survival techniquehappening, but I think it is
important just as humans to, youknow, meet someone where they're
at, but also do your duediligence of saying, Well, can I
check in with you later aboutthat?
SPEAKER_00 (49:38):
Yeah, because it's not dismissive then, is it?
And it's not just saying, Oh,I'm fine as a default response.
It's actually saying, I'm notokay at the moment.
I'll come back to you on it.
I like that.
It's really good.
What message do you want firstresponders and healthcare
workers to take away from thiswhole conversation today?
SPEAKER_02 (49:54):
Oh my gosh.
I think the biggest thing thatI'd love for them to take away
is like, you know, thoseinternal conflicts that you tend
to have, and maybe that fearcenter critic that has a lot of
internal real estate.
Like, number one, you're notalone.
And those are actually strengthsthat you have, but it's also
your duty to think about whatthat critical part of you, those
(50:18):
protective parts of you, aretrying to protect so that you
can begin to soothe them and dothe internal work.
SPEAKER_00 (50:24):
Yep, mindfully.
I love it.
I'm so grateful.
And because I am so grateful,and because I'm a
multi-billionaire, I've decidedthat for being a guest on the
podcast, I'm gonna build you aholiday house or buy you a
holiday house anywhere in theworld that you want.
And I love this question forpeople because it's interesting.
I used to say, where would youlike to live?
And they always say where theyare, but I'm gonna build this
(50:45):
somewhere else.
It's not allowed to be where youlive now, and you have to live
in it for six months.
You can take your husband oryour kids or whatever you want
to do, I don't care, or you canjust go and have a nice
six-month retreat yourself.
Where do you want me to build itfor you?
SPEAKER_02 (50:58):
Oh my gosh.
And this has to be a real place,right, Roger?
SPEAKER_00 (51:02):
Oh, well, yes, it can't be a fantasy land.
I can't build it on a nowhere,or I've got to build it
somewhere.
SPEAKER_02 (51:09):
You know, I think I've always been very interested
in Fiji, being on the water andexploring and kind of having
just very outdoors mindset andtalk about resets, talk about
being in the present.
I think it would just be achallenge because it's so
different from what I know andwhat I've experienced.
But I would be in a place whereI think I could really slow down
(51:31):
and be one with nature.
SPEAKER_00 (51:32):
I have a client of mine who's Fijian, most
beautiful person you will evermeet.
And yeah, we talk about this,the Fijian culture and the way
the people are beautiful.
I was in Fiji three years agoand on Matamanoa Island.
If you ever get the chance, goto Matamanoa Island.
It's a child-free island.
We just sat on this wet deckpool looking out at the ocean
for seven days, and it was justthe best reset in the whole
(51:55):
world.
It was amazing.
Thank you so much.
Leah, where can people find youif something that you've said
has resonated?
Whereabouts can they find you?
SPEAKER_02 (52:03):
Absolutely.
So my website is leamarone.com.
You can find me on Instagram,you can find me on Facebook and
all the social platforms.
I also have a book called SerialFixer Break Free from the Habit
of Solving Other People'sProblems.
And that is available forpre-order.
It comes out November 11th, andyou can get it in your hands now
or then.
(52:24):
And yeah, I'd love to hear fromyou.
And if there's any questions,I'm happy to support.
SPEAKER_00 (52:28):
Wonderful.
We didn't talk about the book.
I meant to talk about the book,and we didn't talk about the
book.
You must be super excited thatyou've got your own book coming
out.
SPEAKER_01 (52:36):
Yeah, it's been wonderful.
It's been wonderful, wonderfulto have a publishing team of
people that know what the heckthey're doing.
SPEAKER_00 (52:41):
Oh, yeah, that would help.
Yeah, I'm gonna write a book oneday too.
Anyone's listening that is apublishing company, knock
yourself out, approach me,because I've got so many
thoughts that I want to get outon paper to help first
responders to recover from PCSD,anxiety, and depression of my
own journey.
But anyway, yeah, it's anexciting book, and you've called
it the serial fixer.
So I assume, whether it's rightor wrong, I assume you're going
(53:04):
down the line of the serialpleaser, the rescuer, the person
that feels like they've got tobe doing everything for
everybody else to help them.
Is that what it is?
SPEAKER_02 (53:11):
You're absolutely right.
It's about setting thoseexternal boundaries and being
mindful of how you show up inrelationships and overextending.
But it's first and foremost,kind of like what we've talked
about today, a lot of theinternal work and just being
able to really, I think, enhancethe relationships that you have
externally and more importantlywith the one that you have with
yourself.
SPEAKER_00 (53:30):
Incredible.
We'll look forward to that.
When's it coming out?
When's it due?
SPEAKER_02 (53:33):
It releases November 11th, but it's available for
pre-order now.
SPEAKER_00 (53:37):
Oh, it's very soon.
Okay, I'll tell you what I'lldo.
I'll put a link in the shownotes to your website, your
Instagram, and I'll alsoaccidentally put one in there
for your book as well.
Um, for people to go andpre-order it as well.
We'd be probably fairly close tothe launch of your book on the
day that I actually releasedthis.
So that's going to be reallysuper for you as well.
(53:57):
Awesome.
Awesome.
Leah, that was a brilliant chat,and thank you so much for
sharing your insights and yourpractical tools.
Thank you.
For anyone listening, I hopethat you do.
Take a moment today to justcheck in with yourself and
notice those inner voices.
Noticing them is what will helpyou.
Take a few micro resets andlisten to what your body is
(54:18):
actually telling you.
It's not about doing more, it'sactually about recovering better
so that you are better foryourself.
Now you can find more about Leahand her work at Leamarone.com.
And as I said, I'll put the linkin the show notes.
And if you're a shift worker ora first responder and you want
to learn more about buildingsustainable health and
resilience, you can come andjoin us inside the Shift Workers
(54:41):
Collective, which is my ownprivate online community of
shift workers where I run live Q⁇ A's every Tuesday, and I also
run a shift work-related topicon the first Monday of every
month.
It's a community where I helpyou to thrive and not just
survive using topics like whatwe've discussed with Leah today.
Thanks again for listening tothe Healthy Shift Podcast, and
(55:03):
I'll catch you in the nextepisode.
Thank you for listening.
If you enjoyed this episode, besure to subscribe so you get
notified whenever a new episodeis released.
It would also be ever so helpfulif you could leave a rating and
review on the app you'recurrently listening on.
If you want to know more aboutme or work with me, you can go
(55:23):
to ahealtyshift.com.
I'll catch you on the next one.
These parts of us are like our internal bodyguards
that again are trying to protectus from feeling something, and
they generally rather come inway too strong, where they're
giving us 10 bodyguards when wemight need one.
SPEAKER_00 (01:52):
Shift work can be brutal, but it doesn't have to
be.
Welcome to a healthy shift.
My name is Roger Sutherland,certified nutritionist, veteran
law enforcement officer, and24-7 shift worker for almost
four decades.
Through this podcast, I aim toeducate shift workers using
evidence-based methods to notonly survive the rigors of shift
(02:15):
work, but thrive.
My goal is to empower shiftworkers to improve their health
and well-being so they have moreenergy to do the things they
love.
Enjoy today's show.
Today I am joined by LeahMarone, a psychotherapist, a
corporate wellness consultant,and a former Division I athlete
(02:36):
who has spent years helping highperformance to manage stress,
boundaries, and burnout.
Now we're going to unpack somereally important topics today,
like how to manage that innercritic.
And this is something we allneed to know about.
The pleaser, the rescuer,because let's face it, we all
feel like we need to rescueeveryone these days.
And how to use those microresets during your shifts and in
(03:01):
life to regulate your nervoussystem and how to spot the early
warning signs of fatigue beforethey turn into burnout or
compassion fatigue.
Now, whether you're driving towork today, winding down after a
night shift, or you're grabbinga coffee between calls, you will
absolutely get a lot out of thisone.
So sit down, buckle up.
(03:21):
Leah, it is great to have you onthe podcast.
Welcome.
SPEAKER_02 (03:24):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm looking forward to ourconversation.
SPEAKER_00 (03:27):
I am too.
And I'm really pleased thatwe've connected about this.
So before we jump into the topictoday, can you tell us a bit
about your background and thework that you are currently
doing to support people in highstress roles like healthcare and
emergency services?
SPEAKER_02 (03:43):
Sure, absolutely.
So I have a private practice,and a lot of the patients I see
individually for therapy are inthe healthcare sector, are in
fields that require a lot ofempathy and compassion and quick
acting decisions.
So that is a lot of firstresponders, that is a lot of
people where they, you know, canaccess grit and resilience like
(04:04):
that.
And so that has led me to notonly, you know, work with people
therapeutically on an individuallevel, but also provide wellness
workshops and support tononprofit organizations and
teams and corporations on justintegrating mental health within
the culture of their team andtheir organization.
SPEAKER_00 (04:22):
Oh, that's absolutely fantastic.
Now, to those listening, you'veclearly got an American accent.
Whereabouts are you located inthe US?
SPEAKER_02 (04:29):
Yes, I am located in Charlotte, North Carolina on the
East Coast.
SPEAKER_00 (04:33):
God's country.
That's what you would say,wouldn't you?
It's absolutely beautiful there.
And I mean absolutely beautiful.
Very jealous.
Leah, you've worked with leadersand teams around the world.
So what patterns do you oftensee in our first responders when
it comes to things like thisstress and burnout and
perfectionism?
SPEAKER_02 (04:50):
Yes.
I mean, I see a lot of just, youknow, work hard, play hard, like
kind of going in, going all in,which we need to do, especially
in roles such as the listeners,you know, occupy.
But there's almost theseemotional hangovers.
There's this internal balloon,if you will, that constantly
gets filled up to the brim andpops.
And so it's kind of cycling inand out of go, go, go, go, go,
(05:13):
and then you crash and burn.
And then you go, go, go, go, go,and you crash and burn.
So I'm really seeing thiscyclical burnout and
overextension when it comes topeople that are high achievers,
that are performing at a highlevel and that are constantly
serving others and creatingspace.
SPEAKER_00 (05:30):
I'm going to speak from experience from my own
perspective.
I've done 40 years on the frontline myself, and I know that
from my learnings since this andgetting to today, that I didn't
realize that we don't closethose loops, do we?
We just continually take it on,take it on, take it on.
And there's a very famous bookaround this The Body Keeps the
(05:51):
Score.
It literally does, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_02 (05:54):
Absolutely.
And I've really noticed, andmyself included in this, you
know, there's that fierce innercritic component where there's
this internal chatter constantlywith that critic within you
telling you, you know, if youdon't do XYZ, if you don't keep
going, if you don't pushyourself, then you're not being
the best you can be.
Then you're not being that, youknow, A plus professional, then
(06:16):
you're not being that A plusparent.
Then you're not being this.
And so there's this constantpush to keep going and going
because otherwise we're going tohear it from our critic.
And so it's a lot of times theseinternal conflicts of logically,
I know that I need to rest andrecover and maybe set some
boundaries.
But when I try to execute that,there's this other part of me
(06:37):
that swings into action andmakes me feel guilty, makes me
feel weak, makes me feel like ifI do take a break or I say no to
something or I don't give it myall every second of the day,
then I'm not worthy.
I'm not good enough.
SPEAKER_00 (06:49):
Leah, I have clients that are shift-working mothers.
And I think they are the biggestvictims of this situation that
you just literally spoke aboutnow.
They find they just don't haveany time for themselves.
Now, what you've said that theyfeel like they need to be up and
about and going all the time tobe the best version of
(07:12):
themselves, but it's doing thatthat is actually making them not
the best version of themselves,isn't it?
And it's very difficult to getpeople to actually see that.
I'll go to like a mum that'sworking in nursing, doing double
shifts and quick shifts andkeeping up and about and doing
school book week and trying toget them ready for Halloween and
(07:33):
trying to do absolutelyeverything that goes on.
And they're trying to be thebest version of themselves.
They know inside that they'refailing, but they keep on doing
it.
How can they check in withthemselves and put a strategy in
place to start off with thatgoes, okay, we need to sit for
five minutes?
SPEAKER_02 (07:50):
Absolutely.
I think there's two differentthings I'd love to share on
that.
The first thing is like reallyrecognizing how you are showing
up to interactions with people,or if you are just taking the
bait.
And what I mean by that is ifyou know your kid sighs or your
child is like, oh, just showsany type of distress.
(08:11):
We immediately take that baitbecause we have the strong
association that my kid isexperiencing something
uncomfortable.
And if I am not immediately ableto soothe and fix and solve it,
then I'm probably not doing myjob and I'm not a good mother.
And so we take these momentswhere someone may ask us a
question, someone may sharedistress or something
uncomfortable, and weimmediately jump into fixing and
(08:35):
solving and being five stepsahead rather than meeting the
person and the situation and theemotion where it is.
And so you'll find that peoplewith high levels of grit, of
go-getter, you know, highemotional intelligence, they're
putting themselves in situationswhere they're trying to fix and
solve to eliminate some distressand discomfort within them.
(08:56):
If my child is soothed, if mychild has what they need, if my
child is fine, then I have achance to be fine.
And so you can see where we'reconstantly trying to be two
steps ahead of everything inorder to chase this fabricated
recovery and break.
But then when it might come, wefeel that too because we're
bombarded with wait, you'regonna relax.
(09:17):
There's so much other things todo.
You can't relax.
And so that's kind of the firstframework that I'm sure we'll
delve into.
But the other one, moretangibly, is every crack and
crevice of the day, everytransition, which we all have
dozens, whether we're walkinginto another room, we're, you
know, moving from home to work,we are, you know, moving from
(09:38):
role to role, we areconditioning ourselves to
constantly fill those moments oftransition with something our
brain kind of deems asproductive.
We're on our phone, we'rechecking news updates, we're
checking our email, we're doingthis.
And even when we're just walkingto get the mail or going, you
know, into the grocery store,we're cluttering this with
consumption.
(09:59):
And if we would just take aminute to think about these
natural transitions as microresets and times that we can
take a breath, times that we canaccess our senses, and times
that we can just be one with ourenvironment, it really starts to
clear proactively our internalclutter and help immensely with
getting in shape with beingpresent.
SPEAKER_00 (10:19):
You are speaking by language here.
I love this because I neverconsidered them as transitions.
And they are every time we go todo something, we are
transitioning, but we're notgiving ourselves a chance to
transition into what we'reactually doing.
And we are distracted bythinking about other things
while we're trying to do thething, aren't we?
(10:39):
We're doing this all the time.
We're in the supermarket, butwe're thinking about what little
Johnny's doing, or we're withlittle Johnny and we're thinking
about what to cook for dinner,or we're not actually giving
ourselves a chance to check inwith ourselves and go, right,
here I am.
This is what I'm doing, this iswhat I'm focusing on, because we
live in a very busy societytoday, but we've created this
(11:02):
ourselves.
I've got no doubt, and ourphones do this, I'm sure of it.
Many frontline workers have thatlike an always-on mindset.
I know I experience myself, andI see this in nursing, I see it
in frontline health, and also inour first responders.
Now, they keep on pushingthrough, and we spoke about the
mums.
They take care of everyoneelse's needs.
(11:23):
Nurses are taking care ofpatients' needs, police are
doing their jobs, et cetera, butthey're ignoring what they need
themselves.
Now, can you explain what it isthat's really happening under
the hood here?
SPEAKER_02 (11:36):
Absolutely.
And you nailed it.
I mean, it's like when you'rekind of in that line of work and
you're constantly looking atexternal things and sometimes
emergency situations and urgentthings to structure you and
provide you with a role to kickyou into that problem-solving,
you know, role, which you needto execute.
That, to your point, isincredibly hard to turn off.
(11:59):
And you can see where that partof us, when we are executing
externally and we are five stepsahead, we can very quickly
assess this is what needs tohappen.
We are fulfilling almost thissense of purpose, which
rightfully so, but fulfillingthis sense of purpose where it
justifies kind of omitting andnot really going inside to do
(12:22):
the internal work because we'reso busy and we're checking the
boxes and we're seeing all theproductivity externally.
And so when it is time to lookinternally, or we're hearing the
bells and whistles from our bodyand our mind, sometimes we're
just in this cycle where it'slike I'm feeling the tightness
of my chest, I'm feeling theexhaustion, but I don't know how
(12:43):
to go in there.
It's too overwhelming.
So I'm gonna find somethingexternally to fixate on that
will give me a role out herethat I can feel purposeful,
connection, and still it's gonnakind of give me that numbing
band-aid effect.
SPEAKER_00 (12:56):
Absolutely fantastic.
I've got a classic example ofthis.
As a police man of 40 years, myrole at work is see problem,
solve problem, do it veryquickly.
So when I would get home and mypartner would say to me, This is
an issue, I'd go, see problem,solve problem, move on.
(13:16):
But that's not what she wanted.
She just wanted an ear, and thiscreates conflict, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_02 (13:21):
Yes, it does.
And it's so hard to switch thatoff.
And, you know, I think when youare, you're dealing with kind of
(14:49):
your partner, your children, youknow, kind of you're outside of
that professional role.
That's why I think capitalizingon those transitions and really
practicing and getting your repsin with getting in shape on that
level and, you know, kind ofdebriefing yourself, validating
the efforts, the work that youdid, you know, debriefing with a
colleague if you need to,because something was incredibly
intense.
You know, we're not honoringthat so that we can go into
(15:11):
these other roles that requiredifferent skill sets sometimes,
you know, with a little bit of amore end of an empty tank,
right?
Or a fuller tank.
SPEAKER_00 (15:20):
Now, you know, Leah, and you're gonna relate to this.
See, men and women are sodifferent this way.
Like when a man and a woman goesto bed, right, at the end of the
day, the man is gonna roll overand go to sleep.
End of story.
The woman, that's where she'sgonna have the committee
meetings and wants to have thediscussions about now, Johnny's
doing this at school, Sarah'sdoing this, and this is what's
(15:40):
happening.
He's not interested at thatstage.
Or he will say, Here's theproblem, here's the solution,
good night, I'm off to sleep.
It's so common, but we can't dothat because that's not our
role.
And this is where we're nottransitioning from the working
Rodge to the home husband,partner, father Raj.
Now, you talk about the innercritic, the pleaser, the
(16:03):
rescuer.
This is very common threadsright through what you do.
And I think this is reallyimportant for us to unpack this
because knowledge is power andlearning about what these voices
are and how to deal with them ispart of the battle.
How is it these voices will showup in first responders or our
health professionals?
SPEAKER_02 (16:23):
Right.
And they're very powerful.
You know, there's differentparts of us that are really
motivated by different thingsand trying to protect us from
different things.
So if you think about your innercritic, like that, you know,
stereotypically, and I know forme as well, like it's protecting
me from stagnation.
It's protecting me from beingjudged negatively, it's
protecting me from not doing mybest, it's protecting me from
(16:46):
negative judgment and scrutinyfrom others.
And so that part of me, I thinkI was taught, unfortunately, at
a young age, and even as anathlete, when that critic was
incredibly loud, I hear thingslike Leah, just ignore it.
Leah, just don't worry about it.
You know, Leah, just kind ofdistract yourself and get into
that a better mindset.
And I couldn't bring myself todo it when it was time to
(17:08):
execute.
And I thought something waswrong with me, and it was
excruciatingly painful andanxiety-driven.
And I just thought something waswrong.
And I've learned that theseparts of us are like our
internal bodyguards that againare trying to protect us from
feeling something, and theygenerally rather come in way too
strong, where they're giving us10 bodyguards when we might need
(17:29):
one.
And so, really, it's this wholereframe of not hating these
parts, not trying to get rid ofthem, not trying to silence
them.
It's actually acknowledging andshowing appreciation that these
parts of us are working veryhard for probably a good reason
from something in our past.
And our job is to align andsoothe them and start to do
(17:51):
these little experiments wherewe're playing with boundaries,
we're trying to do differentthings so they start to trust us
and start to calm down.
And that's where you'll seeanxiety go down, that's where
you'll see more of a balance andlike the recalibration work that
we try to do actually becomesuccessful.
SPEAKER_00 (18:10):
Fantastic.
Now, is an example of this theperson that knows that they
should be doing something, butthey can't bring themselves to
do it.
That's your inner critic.
And they start bullyingthemselves, as in, oh, you're
hopeless, oh, you're no good,what are you doing this for?
You know you should be doingthis, but you're not doing that.
And then they give up.
So that is your inner critic,isn't it?
(18:31):
And this is where we need to notfight against it and criticize
ourselves.
I always talk to clients likethis, Leah, about nobody likes a
bully.
If someone stood in front of youand spoke to you the way you
speak to yourself, you wouldslap them down so many times.
You would never allow agirlfriend or a friend to talk
(18:54):
to you the way you speak toyourself.
And you think it's okay to do itto yourself, but it hurts when
somebody else does it.
So you are hurting yourself bydoing it as well.
And I think, am I correct insaying what you're saying is
acknowledging this, recognizingthis, and going with it instead
of fighting against it and beingcritical of yourself.
Is that what you're saying?
SPEAKER_02 (19:13):
It is.
And it takes a lot of practiceand repetitions to get this part
to trust you and get on board.
You know, if you kind of takethe example of, and I know many
of your listeners probably havetheir physical routines well
intact, but let's say that, youknow, Sunday, you think, you
know what, enough is enough.
This week, I'm gonna get upearly in the morning before work
and I'm gonna work out.
Enough is enough.
(19:34):
I'm in my 40s.
How can I have not had thistogether yet?
And you have this grand planalmost filled with some
rigidity.
Your workout plan, I'm not gonnaeat this, I'm gonna do this.
Okay, here we go.
I'm all on board.
And then your alarm goes offearly in the morning on Monday.
And another part of you that'smotivated and trying to protect
something totally different,like your peace, your warmth,
the fact that, like, well, wedidn't sleep really well.
(19:56):
We know we get cranky, andreally is a morning workout
gonna do much of anything.
We might as well just startanother day or not do it at all.
And that right there, you know,you decide to turn off the alarm
and skip the workout, and yourcritic's gonna be on you later
in the day.
What the heck?
We had a great plan.
Why didn't you execute?
And this is a great example ofkind of these different parts of
us that surface and create theseinternal conflicts.
(20:18):
And I think our job is toacknowledge what each of these
conflicting parts of us aretrying to protect, are motivated
by.
And it's not a matter of likeswinging from one to the other.
It's a matter of kind of beingyour own mediator between these
parts.
Maybe I'm not gonna be rigid andwork out every single morning
early, but I also know I'm gonnahear it from my critic if I
don't do something.
(20:38):
So maybe I'm gonna compromise.
And there's gonna be a few daysa week that I do get up and I'm
gonna soothe that part of me andthe critical part of me, but I'm
also gonna acknowledge that somemornings I would like to stay in
bed a little longer because I'mworking my ass off.
SPEAKER_00 (20:50):
Yeah, I've had a busy three or four shifts and
I'm exhausted and I need torest.
I get that.
Right.
I mean, discipline comes beforethe action that we do.
So, what are some practical waysthat we can recognize when these
internal voices are starting torun the show?
Like this critic, as you said,the example that you gave,
you've said that basically we'vegot to negotiate with it as
(21:12):
well.
How do we get to the stage wherewe're actually calling ourselves
out on our own BS?
SPEAKER_02 (21:17):
Right.
I think when we find ourselvesin this very negative self-talk
thought loop, when we also findthat ourselves very stuck in the
past, ruminating and trying togain closure with things and
fill in the gaps of maybesomething that we necessarily
can't, or we're way in thefuture and our critic is feeding
us, you know, again, theseanxious, very over-dramatic
(21:38):
scenarios so that we can beprepared for everything under
the sun.
And those are really goodindicators because, again,
Roger, it's pulling us away fromthe present.
It's leading us to be fixated onthe what-ifs of the future, and
it's protecting us again,overdoing it from all these
things we are so desperatelytrying not to feel.
And the same thing through thepast.
(21:59):
So that's a huge indicator.
And you brought up a great pointabout if you're at the grocery
store, if you're with your kid,but you are somewhere else.
You're already planning andthinking about three days from
now, you know, even three hoursfrom now, you know, some of that
is necessary as you'remultitasking different roles and
going from one thing to thenext.
But when you're consistentlymissing out and, you know, not
(22:22):
collecting data and combiningand connecting with people, that
too is a big indicator that yourprotective parts have too much
internal real estate.
SPEAKER_00 (22:30):
I think a classic example of how to recognize that
this is going on is notremembering where you were and
why you were there and what youwere doing.
And when you go into thesupermarket and then you get
back out into your car and youthink, I went in to get tomatoes
and I didn't get the tomatoes.
Right?
I got everything else, but Ididn't get the tomatoes.
(22:50):
This is a classic example of younot being present, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02 (22:54):
Absolutely.
And you know, again, it's notthat you're gonna nail it every
time.
And if that happens to you onoccasion, it's okay.
But if this is something that'sa constant pattern, it's a
really good data point to makenote of, not judge, but make
note of, and then again, makesome adjustments and think about
how I can use that data toexperiment with myself and take
(23:16):
different steps to see how Ithen respond.
SPEAKER_00 (23:19):
So, how can you quiten it, Dan?
Like you're in the shop, you'rewandering around, and you're one
of those people that can checkin with yourself and your
phone's going off, and you know,someone's calling or someone's
text, and you're starting tothink about that.
How do we quiten the voice?
What do we do?
SPEAKER_02 (23:33):
Yeah, because it is.
I mean, every puff of air isfilling up our internal balloon,
and then one last thing is gonnamake us blow.
And so I do, I think,practicing, you know, kind of
being your own commentator,where you're just like almost
either verbally or in your mind,just calling out like what
you're doing step by step.
I'm at the grocery, here's mylist.
(23:54):
I'm gonna put my phone onsilence so that I can prevent
some interruptions.
If I constantly am bombardedwith a certain to-do or a
certain thought that is notreally relates to where I am,
I'm gonna just take a real quicknote, write it down on my piece
of paper or my note, my grocerylist to validate it, but set a
boundary that not here, not now.
And so it's these little tricksagain to as you transition to
(24:15):
things, notice all the things infront of you that might be a
potential interruption ordistraction, pulling you away
from what you really want to befocused on, the task that you
want to execute from start tofinish.
I think also just tapping intoyour senses, right?
I mean, this is something I dowith athletes all the time.
And it's been such a long-termcoping technique that I mean
(24:39):
it's been around forever, but itworks when you start to feel
overwhelmed or in futuristicthinking and you're just not
present with anything thatyou're doing.
Start to go through your senses.
What do I see?
Maybe even naming the colors ofthe rainbow.
What's something red?
What's something orange?
What do I smell?
How does my body feel?
Is it cold in here?
(24:59):
You know, what do I hear?
And just thinking through andsensorily grabbing that data
moves you into a different partof your brain and gives you that
micro reset to be where you are.
SPEAKER_00 (25:10):
Now, I learned this.
We had a discussion before westarted this from my
psychotherapist.
Name five things you can see,name four things you can hear,
because it brings you back intothe present.
Now, where my finger's pointingthere, that is a coin, which is
a PTSD coin right there.
And that coin on the back of thecoin, it has what can you see?
What can you hear?
What can you see?
(25:31):
When you start to get thatanxiety attack and you start to
feel that overwhelmed byliterally that tactile feel of
what can you see, what can youhear?
It really does bring you back towhere you are.
And I think using the example ofin the supermarket with little
Johnny and you've finished yourshift and your brain's going a
million miles an hour and youwalk into the supermarket, name
(25:54):
five things you can see.
What are four things that youcan hear?
What are three things that youcan smell?
You know what I mean?
Like as you're walking through,because it brings you back to
where you are.
And I think the putting thephone on silent for the 15
minutes that you're going to bein the supermarket, because you
can do this, you're a shiftworker, you can get in and out
in 15 minutes, get in and out.
You're not missing anything in15 minutes.
(26:15):
You can take it off, do notdisturb, when you get out back
into the car.
If you've got to have a look atit, then great.
If you feel that you're thatconnected and you need to be
that connected, but how manypeople open their phone, all of
a sudden they're scrollingInstagram, they're standing in
aisle six in the supermarket,they can't even remember why
they're there.
It's their own fault, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02 (26:33):
Yeah.
It's just welcoming thosedisruptions and those
interruptions.
And it is, you make such a goodpoint about, you know, that
right there is a perfect exampleof experimenting with yourself
when you kind of say, you knowwhat, this time at the grocery
store or this time when I'm at ared stoplight, I am going to
refrain from pulling out myphone.
I'm going to try to just noticewhat I see.
(26:56):
And that part of you that'sprotective, and maybe the part
of you that's critical, like,no, no, no, no, no.
You need to make sure you're ontop of your email.
You need to make sure that youdon't miss a text.
What if you don't answersomething?
That's the part of you that youhave to soothe and say, we are
experimenting with something.
We are going to notice how wefeel after this and take some
note.
And generally, you'll noticethat you're like, nothing
(27:18):
catastrophic happened.
I actually feel a little calmerand the world didn't blow up.
And enough of those experiences,enough of those repetitions and
you sticking with it, thatstarts to soothe that urgent,
critical, over-obsessive part ofyou.
SPEAKER_00 (27:37):
I love this.
You're negotiating withyourself.
How am I going to feel?
I'm going to try this.
I'm going to get to the redlight.
I'm going to stop there.
And I'm going to talk to Johnnyin the back.
I'm going to look in the rearvision mirror and I'm going to
say, How are you feeling?
And I'm going to have aconversation with him and be
present.
And then you're present in thatcar instead of being distracted
with who you're on the phone toor whatever.
This is great.
(27:57):
I hope you're enjoying the show.
If you are, please don't forgetto rate and review once you've
finished.
This helps the show's reachenormously.
And have you got my free ebook,The Best Way to Eat on Night
Shift?
Well, this is a comprehensiveguide to the overnight fast, why
we should fast and how to bestgo about it.
(28:17):
I've even included a few recipesto help you.
I've put a link to the ebook inthe show notes.
And are you really strugglingwith shift work and feel like
you're just crawling from oneshift to the next?
Well, I've got you.
If you would like to work withme, I can coach you to thrive,
not just survive, whileundertaking the rigours of 24-7
(28:38):
shift work.
I also conduct in-house livehealth and well-being seminars
where I will come to yourworkplace and deliver
evidence-based information tohelp your well-being team to
reduce unplanned leave andincrease productivity in your
workplace.
I've put the links in the shownotes to everything mentioned.
(28:59):
You can find me athealthyshift.com or on Instagram
at a underscorehealthyunderscore shift.
Now let's get back to the show.
Let's move on to the next one,which is the person who is the
pleaser or the rescuer, right?
Someone who's listening who'salways felt responsible for
(29:21):
everyone else.
And I think my mum, not my mummum, but my shift-working mum
that's got children as well is aclassic for this.
Always feels responsible foreveryone else.
How do they, in their roles,start setting boundaries for
that feeling guilty or selfish?
Just this is something that mumsreally feel.
SPEAKER_02 (29:41):
Oh, absolutely.
And I've had to work hard atthis myself.
And you think about it'sgenerally something that pops up
and we make this strongassociation depending on just
our childhood and who we wereraised by and kind of the
culture of our family unit,right?
And if we kind of recognizeright away if we can be two
steps ahead, if we can noticethat someone else in our family
(30:02):
might need soothe, or if we cando something to calm them down,
then we can access calm.
And so it's a matter of kind offixing and soothing and solving
out here with the people thatwere around, so that then we can
get some calm.
And it is, it's that serialfixing behavior.
And it's, you know, I don'twant, I can endure, I will
(30:23):
adjust, I will accommodate,because if I create a conflict,
if I feed a conflict, I'm gonnafeel something uncomfortable.
So I'll just internalize, I willmake do as long as they're
happy.
And this narrative and thesevery rigid associations keep us
in these patterns of serialfixing, of jumping in to fix and
(30:45):
solve and over-accommodate.
And really, again, it servesthis purpose and connection of
like, this is what good moms do.
This is what, you know, nicepeople do.
And I don't want to be seen asanything other than kind.
And so I'm going to sacrifice myown needs or never even be in
touch with them to kind of, youknow, have that sense of
connection and make sureeveryone else has me in their
(31:06):
good graces.
SPEAKER_00 (31:07):
Leah, I see this with mums.
They think they're doing areally good job.
And don't get me wrong, theythink they're doing a really
good job, but they're beingjudged by their peers as an
absolute scatterbrain becausethey're so busy trying to keep
everybody else happy that theyare all over the place.
They're not present, they don'tremember conversations, they
don't turn up on time to wherethey're supposed to be because
(31:27):
they are literally completelyscatterbrained, and they can't
see that that's not turning upas the best version of
themselves, which is whatthey're trying to do, and that's
the conflict that they're havingthemselves.
Now, we've spoken about microresets and how powerful a micro
reset can actually be.
And I loved even the lights.
Let's just try this at astoplight because it's a
(31:49):
30-second or 40-second cycle.
But now that shows that you canmake a big change in 30 or 40
seconds that can be a real, ohmy God, that made a big
difference to me.
So now shift workers don't logoff for a break because most
frontline health get a breakwhen they can.
First responders get a breakwhen they can.
They don't get this long breakwhere they can have lunch and
(32:10):
then go and sit in a room for 15minutes and do some breathing
exercises.
So, what are a few examples ofsome simple resets that they
could bring about at home aswell as at work?
Because work can be up and go,but we need to do it at home as
well, because we're makingourselves very busy at home at
the same time.
SPEAKER_02 (32:28):
Absolutely.
And this is going to take somerecalibrating, this is going to
take some repetitions.
But you're right.
I mean, the nature of the work,you know, the people listening,
like it does.
It sounds like you are on andyou need to be on, you know, for
other people's safety and justthe amazing work that you're
doing.
And so if you're able to kind ofhave some downtime, which I know
is very hard sometimes toaccess, you can practice these
(32:48):
micro resets.
You know, you can identify likewhat I can do to kind of reset
and tap in with myself.
But if you know, it is somethingthat You're like, that's
probably not gonna happen whileI'm on the clock.
Think about bookending your dayand having an AM bookend and a
PM bookend while acknowledgingthat the middle of those two
bookends might be a chaotic messthat you can't control much of,
(33:10):
right?
And you're on in a very highlevel.
And so, but an AM bookend, it'snot this elaborate, like
time-sucking act.
But what it is is it's takingsomething that you already
probably do in the morning, likemaybe take a shower or brush
your teeth or have your cup oftea.
And think about while I'm doingthese things to prepare myself
(33:32):
for the day.
Am I also multitasking?
Am I having my cup of tea andpacking my lunch and letting the
dog out and feeding my kids anddoing this and checking my
email?
I love my cup of tea.
What if I just experimented,carved out five minutes to be
present and enjoy my cup of tea?
SPEAKER_00 (33:51):
You won't actually enjoy it.
SPEAKER_02 (33:53):
Yeah.
That's right.
You may taste it and rememberyou even had it.
And your critic's gonna beyelling at you, oh my gosh,
you're gonna be late, you needto do this, no one's gonna have
this.
But you know that's coming, andthat's your job than to soothe
and say, We're trying something.
This doesn't mean we're doingthis for the rest of our days,
but we might if this works out.
And so having something in theAM and then having something in
(34:14):
the PM that you're notmultitasking.
If you like to watch a show atthe end of the night, watch your
show.
Don't be on your phone as well,and eating and doing this, and
you know, all these thingsbecause it's canceling out the
recovery and relaxation timethat you so willingly deserve.
SPEAKER_00 (34:32):
Again, a busy mum, even all shift workers, they
think they've got the kids, theygo home, they deal with the
family, everything happens, thenthey get into bed and then they
grab their mobile phone and theystart scrolling on their mobile
phone to relax.
What?
Like the mobile phone is notrelaxing you.
I know you think it's my time,this is me time now, I'm gonna
(34:53):
catch up.
But what you don't realize isthe actual added stresses that
that is actually adding.
If you were literally to lie inbed and go, that's the end of
the day, fantastic.
One hand on the navel, one handon the chest, breathe down into
the hand, you'll be asleepwithin five seconds, and that is
your U time.
That is the most important Utime that you can possibly get.
(35:14):
A good, you've informed yourautonomic nervous system,
everything's safe.
We can go to sleep, we're good.
I think this is where we makemassive mistakes.
We see in working places, and Iwant to talk to leaders and
managers at the same time hereto create a culture of resetting
in their place.
(35:34):
How can they encourage this?
I've got people that listen tothis podcast that are actually
stepping into leadership roles.
And one of the things that Iwant to bring with this podcast
is I want to educate leaderswhat to look for in their staff
so that they can build a cultureof people who are healthy
mentally as well as physicallyin their workplace.
(35:55):
How can they encourage a kind ofreset culture in their team?
unknown (35:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (36:00):
Oh, such a great question.
And I think again, you know, theanswer truly is what you're
modeling makes a huge impact inthe culture of your team.
It makes a huge impact becausepeople are watching.
They're watching, you know, ifeverything that you do seems to
be interwoven with urgency,whether it's warranted or not.
(36:20):
They are seeing if you truly areexecuting effective listening
skills, or if you're jumping inout of frustration and loss of
patience and trying to fix andsolve and not give your
employees and team members therepetitions they need to build
inner trust and confidence withwhat they're doing as a
professional.
I think too, what leaders arealmost hesitant to do this, but
we're here, we're better, we'regood enough for this now, is
(36:42):
where leaders really need tostart asking questions like,
what lets you know when you'restressed or when you're
overloaded, or what can I do asyour manager to support that?
This is really important becausewe don't want you to, you know,
be on the verge of burnout andcycle in and out of, you know,
overextension and cyclicalexhaustion.
So, what are some things you'velearned about yourself that
(37:04):
you're alerted that you'restressed or that you're
overdoing it?
Those types of conversations,again, you're not having many
therapy sessions, you're nottrying to fix and solve, you're
not trying to, you know, go intoterritory that you're like,
well, I don't know how to dothat.
But it's letting people knowthat like we want to get ahead
of these things.
We want you to have theemotional intelligence, we want
you to have the self-connectionto be able to observe these
(37:26):
things and start integratingboundaries that are not going to
like be a shield where you'relike, well, I can't work today.
No, that's not what we're after.
We're after accessing more gritand resilience and
collaboration.
And so these conversations haveto happen way out of the gate
and not as a reactive component.
SPEAKER_00 (37:43):
Yeah, I agree.
And in a debrief at the end of amajor job, because a lot of
places have debriefs now, don'tthey?
It's become a thing, but I don'tthink they're being used
correctly at all.
Well done, Johnny.
You did a great job.
Frank, you did a great job aswell.
What about at the end of thatdebrief saying, Johnny, what are
you going to do to reset now?
What are you going to do whenyou knock off today?
What are you going to do to justcalm yourself and do whatever?
(38:06):
And making these conversationspart of the debrief.
And I think this is somethingthat would be a really good
initiative for leaders to bringin because it shows compassion
for your crew at the same time.
It's not, oh, Johnny, I'mworried about you.
I think you need to dosomething.
It's not about that.
It's, hey, what are we doing toreset who's doing what?
Agree with that?
SPEAKER_02 (38:25):
Oh, absolutely.
And just those debrief moments.
And I think kind of actively asa team and encouraging
individuals to almost debriefand kind of, you know, write
lists and validate theirefforts, you know, leave things
on the table that they maybeneed to tend to the next day.
Because that, when we're aheadof that, when we kind of start
clearing that clutter as wetransition to our home roles and
(38:47):
things that, you know, areoutside of our professional
roles, that's not what is goingto visit us when we lay down to
go to sleep.
And we won't be as you knowlikely to pull out our phone as
a numbing agent because we don'twant to think about all the
things that we didn't do or thatwere critical of our day.
If we took the time to debrief,if we took the time to say, this
isn't done, I need to send thisemail tomorrow.
(39:09):
I need to do X, Y, and Z when Iwill do this tomorrow when I'm
firing all cylinders.
We have something to refer to inthe evening when that critic is
like, Whoa, you didn't do this.
Whoa, you better do this, whoa.
And you're up spinning.
SPEAKER_00 (39:21):
Yeah.
And that's why in my journalprompt, because I've got a shift
workers journal that I give toclients, the first three
questions that ask is what arethree problems and three
solutions?
And the reason why I do that isbecause they can then just dot
point.
It doesn't have to be a greatbig script.
It's just a dot point.
Because exactly what you havejust said, you're going to be
critical.
I didn't do this today, I didn'tdo this today.
(39:41):
But the thing is, you've writtendown what the problem is and
you've written yourself asolution for tomorrow to address
it.
Once it's on paper and it's downon the bedside table, your brain
lets it go, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_02 (39:52):
It does.
It does.
And it's so interesting becausewhen I'm in those moments, gosh,
it's like going on midnight, andI'm like, why can't I sleep?
I'm going to be so tired.
I have learned to ask myself,Leah, what are you not trusting?
SPEAKER_00 (40:06):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (40:07):
What are you not trusting about your ability?
And if you didn't sleep allnight, do you think you're just
going to crash and burn?
No, you're going to not befiring maybe on all cylinders as
you like, but you've been ableto get through hard stuff
before.
And so it's really actuallyasking yourself and those
protective parts, like, what amI not trusting about myself?
And that gives you a whole newset and filter to kind of work
(40:29):
with.
SPEAKER_00 (40:30):
Because it's really hard to convince yourself that
you don't trust yourself.
Isn't it?
Well, it is.
It's really hard to convinceyourself because, and this once
again comes down to a mindfulpractice.
And this is another thing thatI've learned in my own arsenal,
my own toolkit, to check in andbe mindful.
Why are you like this?
Why are you catastrophizingthis?
(40:50):
You're here today, you are 61years old, and you've got to
this particular point.
You've survived every singlething that's been thrown at you.
What makes you think you're notgoing to get through this?
And it's so typical that we do.
We have these arguments and wecatastrophize.
It is human nature tocatastrophize.
But I think just askingyourself, is what I'm telling
myself the truth?
(41:11):
I think is the key, isn't it?
Is this the truth?
Like, is it really what is goingto happen?
And you know it's not.
You know it's not.
Yeah.
Right?
So now I'm working in anenvironment now, and you know,
you notice signs of fatigue inpeople, irritability, emotional
detachment.
What is one of the first stepsthat a person can take?
Because I know one thing thatI've learned with shift workers
(41:31):
in so many different areas isthey wait until they're
absolutely burnt out and at thebottom of the barrel and can't
recover before they dosomething.
Where's the first step for us totake to start finding our way
out of this?
SPEAKER_02 (41:44):
And I really would.
I really like that whole analogyof kind of thinking of balloon
in your belly and thingsthroughout the day, you know,
even minor in isolation, eitheradd air to your balloon or, you
know, let air out.
If you get a nice smile from ateammate, you're like, ah,
little air let out.
We had a sense of connection.
If you forgot your lunch athome, it's like, oh, there's
some air in your balloon.
You know, these little thingsand sometimes big things really
(42:05):
are kind of filtrating air inand out of our internal balloon.
And it is a matter of reallyacknowledging when you make an
effort to have a pause, topractice a micro reset, to get
in that workout, to do somethingfor yourself and you were
present with.
(42:40):
So I would think about, youknow, if that analogy works for
you, think about ways that,okay, yeah, I'm definitely
walking around with a fullballoon.
What are some things that I cando to let some air out?
And it doesn't have to be thismonumental thing, but that can
be so helpful in your proactiveregulation so that you aren't
just leaving your body and mindto its own devices and waiting
(43:01):
for that balloon pop.
SPEAKER_00 (43:03):
I love the balloon.
I'm going to be using this incoaching moving forward.
I think it's so fantasticbecause I'm going to ask
clients, where's your balloonat?
And what are you doing to letthe air out?
It's coming in all the time, butwhat are you doing to let the
air out of it?
How can teams support each otherin noticing and responding to
these early cues?
Because we're all working aroundeach other rather than waiting
until someone actually crashesand burns.
SPEAKER_02 (43:24):
Right, right.
I think the biggest thing isagain, our jobs are not to jump
in to fix and solve, our jobsare to support.
You know, it's support, don'tsolve.
And I think the best thing youcan do is that, you know, you
probably know each other wellenough.
And when you start to see someshifts and maybe some consistent
shifts that you're a littlenervous about, that you're
(43:45):
noticing, that's data thatyou're collecting with someone
that you really you work closelywith, that you care about.
And it's using those Istatements.
I've noticed that the past weekor so that you've seen lower
with energy, that you don't seemas talkative.
I've noticed these things.
You're sharing the data pointsyou've collected without
judgment, without coming in tosay, like, you know, so buck up
(44:06):
because you're putting a damperon the vibe here.
It's just calling these thingsout and seeing how they respond.
And if they're like, Yeah, no, Ihave.
I've been lower on energy.
And that's where again it's kindof like, is there anything that
you'd like to share?
Is there anything I can do tosupport?
And so it's coming with thatempathy and compassion and that
patience and trying to take thatpressure off of you to try to
(44:27):
fix and solve and say the rightthing.
It's sharing with them throughthose I statements what you're
noticing and the shifts and thatyou care.
SPEAKER_00 (44:34):
An I statement.
I love this so good because youcan't be critical of the person.
You send them further away, youcause bigger problems if you're
critical of them, or if you makea mockery of it, like you really
are a cancer on the team at themoment, you know, like you're
flat as attack.
What's going on?
Like, that's not the way to goabout it.
Even to the most brutal ofpeople, because once their
(44:55):
resilience is gone, which is thereason why they are, they're not
going to take it the way theywould have taken it 12 months
ago, two years ago.
So you've got to be a little bitcareful of all of this.
And the I statement is reallygood advice.
I've noticed this, or I see yousitting away from other people
all the time.
Are you okay?
What's going on?
And then to go the next stepwith that as well.
(45:18):
I think when you ask a person,I've noticed, and they go, I'm
fine.
I think the next steppersonally, and I just commented
on a post in relation to this, Ithink the next step is to
actually show your ownvulnerability and show that you
know that you've had thesemoments where you're really
struggling yourself and you'venot been able to get up.
And how do they feel about that?
If they notice that inthemselves, and sometimes that
(45:39):
vulnerability in yourself canactually open people right up,
which is what my own journey,particularly over the last 10
years, has really taught me.
So, and this is how we cansupport each other.
And my next question was how canteams support each other in
noticing and responding to theseLEQs rather than waiting until
someone crashes?
And I think having theseconversations, I honestly
believe that this comes fromleadership.
(46:01):
And I think leaders standingthere and showing their own
vulnerability and saying, okay,what are we doing to reset?
Or even now you might think thisis happy clapper and woo-hoo,
but I can tell you now it works.
At the end of a session, right,everyone stand there, hand on
your stomach, breathe in forfour.
SPEAKER_01 (46:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (46:16):
You know what I mean?
Like everyone's gonna go, what?
But once they walk away, they'regonna go, God, I feel so good.
And that took two minutes.
unknown (46:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (46:22):
You know?
SPEAKER_02 (46:23):
That's a great thing, and it's unity, and
everyone's doing it together,and you do, you feel that
really.
No one's unique.
SPEAKER_00 (46:28):
It's not like everyone sitting watching
someone in the watch commander'sglass bowl, standing there doing
breath work and thinking, oh,Johnny's suffering, you know.
Everyone's doing it together,and the boss can stand there and
look around and go, get on withit.
You're not doing it, do this,and brings everyone in.
I think it would really help.
Yeah.
Now you've said resilience isnot about toughness, Leah.
(46:49):
I agree with that.
I don't think resilience is,bro.
It's about recovery and whatstrategies you can put in place
and how you can recover.
What does real resilience looklike for someone in a 24-7 role
today?
It's hectic today.
SPEAKER_02 (47:02):
Oh my gosh.
I mean, it is that ability toaccess that grit and that focus
and push through and stay in therole that you're in and execute.
I mean, that is resilient ashell.
But it's also that ability toacknowledge like I worked really
hard, I was firing again on allcylinders, I'm physically,
emotionally, mentally drained,and that's not a weakness.
(47:24):
And now my job is to replenishso that I can do that all again.
Yep.
It's like, you know, if you havean intense workout and you're
sore the next day, that feelsgood in a way.
You know, you worked hard, yourmuscles need to repair a bit,
and you need to do things inorder to get them back to a
place where you can maybe liftthat heavy in two or three days.
And so it's kind of that samething when you think about your
(47:45):
mental health as well.
And it really, truly is.
I mean, the most resilientpeople that I know are the most
self-aware, and they're able to,you know, kind of break through
some of those very rigidassociations we have with I'm
weak or I'm selfish, or I, youknow, am not doing other people
justice if I pause and dosomething to replenish and
(48:08):
recover for me.
SPEAKER_00 (48:09):
Yeah, so important.
And again, it comes back to thatmindful practice, doesn't it?
It's just being mindful, havingthe knowledge that it's okay to
do this and actually do it.
Checking in with yourself allthe time.
I do this around nutrition withhunger.
Just ask yourself, am I actuallyhungry?
Am I actually hungry?
Because that can stop a lot ofpeople from just snacking
(48:30):
mindlessly as well.
Is there anything that wehaven't covered that you would
like to speak about before Ifinalize and close out of the
podcast today?
SPEAKER_02 (48:40):
I think too, just you know, we were talking a
little bit about like kind ofwith your team and checking in.
And I think too, you know, I'venoticed sometimes with myself,
if I'm really focused and goingthrough something that is very
challenging and taxing, that Idon't necessarily want to answer
when someone asks me, Are youokay?
Because I don't want to falter.
I don't want to lose thatmomentum.
I need to stay focused.
(49:01):
And I would say on the otherside of that, if you are with
someone that you can see thatthey are like struggling,
they're burning it out at bothends, but they're determined to
get through that week, thatproject, whatever it is, I think
it's very helpful sometimes tosay, Can I circle back with you?
Can I check in with you in a fewdays?
Or can I check in with you latertoday?
(49:23):
Because we don't want to derail.
We don't want to, you know, ifsomeone is zeroed in and there's
like this survival techniquehappening, but I think it is
important just as humans to, youknow, meet someone where they're
at, but also do your duediligence of saying, Well, can I
check in with you later aboutthat?
SPEAKER_00 (49:38):
Yeah, because it's not dismissive then, is it?
And it's not just saying, Oh,I'm fine as a default response.
It's actually saying, I'm notokay at the moment.
I'll come back to you on it.
I like that.
It's really good.
What message do you want firstresponders and healthcare
workers to take away from thiswhole conversation today?
SPEAKER_02 (49:54):
Oh my gosh.
I think the biggest thing thatI'd love for them to take away
is like, you know, thoseinternal conflicts that you tend
to have, and maybe that fearcenter critic that has a lot of
internal real estate.
Like, number one, you're notalone.
And those are actually strengthsthat you have, but it's also
your duty to think about whatthat critical part of you, those
(50:18):
protective parts of you, aretrying to protect so that you
can begin to soothe them and dothe internal work.
SPEAKER_00 (50:24):
Yep, mindfully.
I love it.
I'm so grateful.
And because I am so grateful,and because I'm a
multi-billionaire, I've decidedthat for being a guest on the
podcast, I'm gonna build you aholiday house or buy you a
holiday house anywhere in theworld that you want.
And I love this question forpeople because it's interesting.
I used to say, where would youlike to live?
And they always say where theyare, but I'm gonna build this
(50:45):
somewhere else.
It's not allowed to be where youlive now, and you have to live
in it for six months.
You can take your husband oryour kids or whatever you want
to do, I don't care, or you canjust go and have a nice
six-month retreat yourself.
Where do you want me to build itfor you?
SPEAKER_02 (50:58):
Oh my gosh.
And this has to be a real place,right, Roger?
SPEAKER_00 (51:02):
Oh, well, yes, it can't be a fantasy land.
I can't build it on a nowhere,or I've got to build it
somewhere.
SPEAKER_02 (51:09):
You know, I think I've always been very interested
in Fiji, being on the water andexploring and kind of having
just very outdoors mindset andtalk about resets, talk about
being in the present.
I think it would just be achallenge because it's so
different from what I know andwhat I've experienced.
But I would be in a place whereI think I could really slow down
(51:31):
and be one with nature.
SPEAKER_00 (51:32):
I have a client of mine who's Fijian, most
beautiful person you will evermeet.
And yeah, we talk about this,the Fijian culture and the way
the people are beautiful.
I was in Fiji three years agoand on Matamanoa Island.
If you ever get the chance, goto Matamanoa Island.
It's a child-free island.
We just sat on this wet deckpool looking out at the ocean
for seven days, and it was justthe best reset in the whole
(51:55):
world.
It was amazing.
Thank you so much.
Leah, where can people find youif something that you've said
has resonated?
Whereabouts can they find you?
SPEAKER_02 (52:03):
Absolutely.
So my website is leamarone.com.
You can find me on Instagram,you can find me on Facebook and
all the social platforms.
I also have a book called SerialFixer Break Free from the Habit
of Solving Other People'sProblems.
And that is available forpre-order.
It comes out November 11th, andyou can get it in your hands now
or then.
(52:24):
And yeah, I'd love to hear fromyou.
And if there's any questions,I'm happy to support.
SPEAKER_00 (52:28):
Wonderful.
We didn't talk about the book.
I meant to talk about the book,and we didn't talk about the
book.
You must be super excited thatyou've got your own book coming
out.
SPEAKER_01 (52:36):
Yeah, it's been wonderful.
It's been wonderful, wonderfulto have a publishing team of
people that know what the heckthey're doing.
SPEAKER_00 (52:41):
Oh, yeah, that would help.
Yeah, I'm gonna write a book oneday too.
Anyone's listening that is apublishing company, knock
yourself out, approach me,because I've got so many
thoughts that I want to get outon paper to help first
responders to recover from PCSD,anxiety, and depression of my
own journey.
But anyway, yeah, it's anexciting book, and you've called
it the serial fixer.
So I assume, whether it's rightor wrong, I assume you're going
(53:04):
down the line of the serialpleaser, the rescuer, the person
that feels like they've got tobe doing everything for
everybody else to help them.
Is that what it is?
SPEAKER_02 (53:11):
You're absolutely right.
It's about setting thoseexternal boundaries and being
mindful of how you show up inrelationships and overextending.
But it's first and foremost,kind of like what we've talked
about today, a lot of theinternal work and just being
able to really, I think, enhancethe relationships that you have
externally and more importantlywith the one that you have with
yourself.
SPEAKER_00 (53:30):
Incredible.
We'll look forward to that.
When's it coming out?
When's it due?
SPEAKER_02 (53:33):
It releases November 11th, but it's available for
pre-order now.
SPEAKER_00 (53:37):
Oh, it's very soon.
Okay, I'll tell you what I'lldo.
I'll put a link in the shownotes to your website, your
Instagram, and I'll alsoaccidentally put one in there
for your book as well.
Um, for people to go andpre-order it as well.
We'd be probably fairly close tothe launch of your book on the
day that I actually releasedthis.
So that's going to be reallysuper for you as well.
(53:57):
Awesome.
Awesome.
Leah, that was a brilliant chat,and thank you so much for
sharing your insights and yourpractical tools.
Thank you.
For anyone listening, I hopethat you do.
Take a moment today to justcheck in with yourself and
notice those inner voices.
Noticing them is what will helpyou.
Take a few micro resets andlisten to what your body is
(54:18):
actually telling you.
It's not about doing more, it'sactually about recovering better
so that you are better foryourself.
Now you can find more about Leahand her work at Leamarone.com.
And as I said, I'll put the linkin the show notes.
And if you're a shift worker ora first responder and you want
to learn more about buildingsustainable health and
resilience, you can come andjoin us inside the Shift Workers
(54:41):
Collective, which is my ownprivate online community of
shift workers where I run live Q⁇ A's every Tuesday, and I also
run a shift work-related topicon the first Monday of every
month.
It's a community where I helpyou to thrive and not just
survive using topics like whatwe've discussed with Leah today.
Thanks again for listening tothe Healthy Shift Podcast, and
(55:03):
I'll catch you in the nextepisode.
Thank you for listening.
If you enjoyed this episode, besure to subscribe so you get
notified whenever a new episodeis released.
It would also be ever so helpfulif you could leave a rating and
review on the app you'recurrently listening on.
If you want to know more aboutme or work with me, you can go
(55:23):
to ahealtyshift.com.
I'll catch you on the next one.
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