August 21, 2025 • 35 mins
Professional identity formation is a crucial yet often overlooked process for preventing burnout and achieving fulfillment in the mental health field.
- Burnout symptoms closely mirror those of an identity crisis
- Many clinicians experience burnout within just 2-5 years of practice
- Professional identity involves aligning personal values with professional work
- Transitioning from training to practice requires developing your voice
- Navigating insurance systems often creates value conflicts
- Mixed messages from employers create professional confusion
- Finding role models helps shape your professional identity
- A strong professional identity acts as a GPS for career decisions
- Professional identity formation is an ongoing process, not a destination
- Diversity in therapeutic approaches strengthens the field
If you're feeling lost or questioning your career choice, remember there is a place for you in this field, even if you have to create it yourself. Take time to explore your values and find the environments that support your authentic professional self.
A Hero's Welcome Podcast © Maria Laquerre-Diego & Liliana Baylon
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Maria (00:02):
Welcome back listeners.
We have a very exciting episodetoday.
Today, liliana, we're going totalk about professional identity
formation.
Liliana (00:12):
Such a grown-up discussion this morning.
Is it Friday?
Is it Monday?
What's happening today?
Maria (00:19):
We're going to pretend to be adults for a moment.
I know that's a stretch forthose of you that know us, but
we're going to try adult for amoment.
Liliana (00:25):
I know that's a stretch for those of you that know us,
but we're going to try and forthat topic we're going to have
our special guest, maddie.
Maddie, how do you want?
to introduce yourself to ourlisteners.
Madi (00:35):
Hi, yeah, my name is Maddie Duran.
I work and live in Las Cruces,New Mexico.
I am a licensed clinical socialworker, a pending registered
behavior I'm sorry a pendingregistered play therapist and a
pending EMDR certified therapist.
So many pending credentials.
Liliana (00:55):
Come on, associations, get your shit together.
Maria (00:59):
Get on it.
Get on it.
She's worked so hard.
Liliana (01:05):
Well, thank you for being here and thank you for
coming to discuss this hugetopic, which is as we were
talking about it.
Right when you saidprofessional identity formation,
is this evolution that we don'ttend to think about when we go
to school, when we say I want tobe a mental health therapist,
(01:26):
whatever credential that is, andthen how that is just the
foundation, is almost like Igave birth to you.
Now, what are you going to do?
And that's what you're going totalk to us about?
Madi (01:42):
Yeah, so I came across the concept of professional
identity formation when actuallyresearching burnout prevention.
I, through my own professionalidentity formation, went through
a very heavy time of deepburnout and coming through the
other side of that.
(02:02):
And coming through the otherside of that.
My big passion now is how do weprevent that from happening
again, both for myself and forother people?
And one of the most interestingthings that I found, at least
(02:29):
in my opinion, when researchingburnout, was that the symptoms
of burnout heavily replicate thesymptoms of an identity crisis.
Oh, wow, yeah.
And so when people are inburnout, a lot of times what we
see is questioning why am I here?
What am I doing?
Does?
Maria (02:40):
this mean anything.
Madi (02:41):
People oftentimes will start fantasizing about other
careers or other lives.
Or did I make a mistakechoosing this career?
Am I not meant to be here?
Bleeds into personalrelationships as well, and a lot
of people start questioning who?
Maria (02:58):
they are.
Yeah, I think that's I meanLiliana as supervisor.
That's something that we seeall the time, with those that
are edging their way.
Getting a little crispy aroundthe edges is what I like to say.
Right, edging their way toburnout.
And, maddie, I've had thepleasure of being able to like
know you and work really closelywith you.
You started experiencingburnout fairly early in your
(03:22):
licensure career.
Madi (03:24):
Absolutely yeah.
So I started out in a highstress environment and I lasted
about two years and I was likethat's it I can.
I remember the exact momentwhen I realized I can't do this
anymore, like this is not it.
And I was.
(03:45):
I did everything except signpapers to start a whole new
career.
I had the papers, I was readyto go, everything was set in
stone and I was out because Iknew I couldn't live that way
anymore.
And I was talking to otherpeople in a similar environment
and that was a similar timeline.
(04:06):
Was this two to five years thatpeople were done and that was
their cap?
And that's really scary.
To have gotten two degrees know, I wanted to do this for a long
time and then get two years inand go oh wait, I can't do this.
(04:27):
Not one more second, can I dothis?
That's a very unsettlingfeeling.
Liliana (04:31):
So for our listeners, like how many of you are
automatically saying like, yes,yes, yes, that sounded like
something else, but yes, likethat is me right.
Which is one I want you to knowthat you're not alone.
As supervisors, we tend to hearthis.
Two, there was the researchdone during COVID, I think it
(04:52):
came out that most of us, thenew generations, are going to be
switching careers three to fivetimes in their lifetime, which
I'm like how are they affordingdegrees?
So they were not talkingnecessarily about degrees, but
that's what they were saying.
And then, too, as you weretalking about how many of you
have gone through this alreadywhen, when you say you know we
(05:15):
go to, we finish our master'sprogram, like how many of you
are going to be like, yes,sister, how many of us finish
our master's program?
Then they tell you an internship, like you have to pay your dues
, you're working to pay yourbills, and then you're doing
this last push to get yourdegree and you're already coming
(05:35):
out of the school systemexhausted, right?
And for all of you who are notseeing, just when you know that
the three of us are like noddingyes, yes.
And for all of you who are notseeing, just when you know that
(05:57):
the three of us are like noddingyes, yes, and then you go.
However you call it in yourstate or country, you go, get
out of, you're less than becauseyou don't have this licensure
yet and therefore they give youinsane hours, insane cases,
because you know you have to payyour dues and you have to
acquire live experience.
How will you know?
(06:18):
And when you're describing twoto five years of burnout, I was
like that sounds about right.
You get your license and youare exhausted.
Maria (06:29):
Yeah.
Madi (06:32):
And life doesn't slow down too outside of that, no, and
you?
Liliana (06:36):
still have to pay your bills.
And then, when we go in ourmental health field and they
tell us like well, what kind ofself-care are you doing?
One besides flipping them off,I'm wondering, wondering, like,
how are you taking care of you?
Right, because self-care alsohas been sold.
The idea of you have to spendmoney for self-care and you have
to pay bills, and you have topay student loans, and you have
(06:59):
to go to work, and if you're acontractor, like if you are an,
an employee, like it's all thesethings that come with it.
Maria (07:05):
so, um, maddie, when you're like hey, we go to an
identity crisis, that soundsabout right right, yeah,
absolutely, and it and it almostfeels like if, if you were able
to lean into this formation.
That is self-care.
So you kind of mean, you kindof fell into this for yourself,
(07:28):
but what are you finding?
What are you wanting otherclinicians to know so that they
can maybe take some of thesesteps?
Madi (07:37):
Absolutely yeah, I.
The first thing is thatprofessional identity formation
is a very fancy word, like youmentioned of.
Oh, we're going to talk aboutvery adult concepts today, which
, yes, however, it is not acomplex concept, it is not
something we need to overthink.
(07:57):
It is deeply personal and it'snot a point that we suddenly get
to and we're like yep.
I have formed my ownprofessional identity Check.
It is a process that spans yourentire career.
It's the same way in our ownpersonal lives and our personal
(08:18):
identity, when we never stopchanging and growing and
shifting, changing and growingand shifting.
So the idea is exploring yourown personal values and how they
align or conflict with yourprofessional values in your
professional setting.
And so that sounds simple.
(08:40):
It's a lot harder to do inactual practice because when I
first heard that, I was likewhat, yeah, and it reminded me
of Maria.
Actually, when you showed me myoffice for the very first time
after switching over to workingat A New Hope, I remember you
asking me what I thought of thecolor of the walls, and I
(09:04):
remember thinking I don't knowwhat I think because I didn't
know I could ever have anopinion like that.
Maria (09:12):
Yeah.
Madi (09:14):
At my previous job, I couldn't have an opinion on
anything.
That wasn't a privilege or afreedom I had.
And then something as simple asthe wall color just stopped me
in my tracks and I was like, ohmy gosh, I don't even know.
Solid year, I think, to fullycome down and fully explore what
(09:39):
was actually important to me,especially in a job environment.
It took me a lot of trial anderror and again I had the
privilege of being able to trialand error what worked for me.
But, yeah, it took a full yearfor me to be able to realize
what's important to me in a job,what works for my life, what
(10:01):
I'm willing to put up withbecause the fact is, this field
is hard and it is stressful andit is overwhelming, and what
parts of that can I put up withor handle or have the capacity
to take on, and what can I nottake on.
And so all of that contributedto me starting to build an
(10:21):
understanding of who I am inthis field.
Liliana (10:26):
Yeah, wow, yeah.
So for all of you who arelistening right like, think
about this what are the valueseither personal and professional
and how they're aligning orconflicting.
So it's an invitation actuallyof that wisdom that we all have
in regards to what works for meand how am I going to be in
(10:47):
community, in this professionalcommunity, without invalidating
my personal values, so that Ican develop this voice not only
personally but professionally.
Maria (11:00):
And Maddie, I know this journey started for you before,
but I'm thinking this is sosuper relevant right now in our
field and specifically in ourcountry, in our profession,
where we're seeing a lot ofpushback and boxing and demands.
I'm wondering if there are likeexamples that come to mind of
(11:24):
like here is where they mightclash and here is where they
might align, so that people canhave a feel for, like what does
this actually look like?
If I'm going to go back through, if I sit down today and think
about where I'm working and whatthe work I'm doing, how do I
know?
Madi (11:42):
Yeah, that's a great question, and one thing that,
especially when looking atvalues, I feel like has helped
me is literally Googling a listof values, because it's so hard
to name them, especially inourselves.
Sometimes it's so hard to evencome up like have a starting
block of where to go, um, and sothat would be my first step is
(12:03):
to just encourage people to lookat a list of values, see what
resonates with you first, andone thing to note on this is
there will never be in thesystem that we exist in you,
there will never be anenvironment that aligns 100%
with all of our values.
When we work in a medical system, when we're navigating
(12:28):
insurance companies, when we arenavigating fluctuating
government policies and laws andvoices, we're never going to be
an environment that 100% aligns.
Liliana (12:41):
Let it rain, sister, go on.
Madi (12:45):
Which there's, at least for me.
There's a grief in that that is.
That's a heavy thought of like.
There will never be anenvironment that 100% aligns.
However, we can find the placesthat do, and we can find the
places that do fill our cups inways in which we can feel like
(13:05):
we belong and we are supportedand support other people as well
.
So one of my first examples ofhow values don't align is, for
example, if you are navigatinginsurance companies I think
that's a very common challengethat a lot of our field deals
(13:26):
with is that insurancecompanies' values are money and
that's really the bottom line.
And, quite frankly, I didn't getinto social work for the money
and the fame, so that is not oneof my number one values Shocker
, I know.
Maria (13:48):
Bursting bubbles this morning, Maddie Bursting bubbles
.
Madi (13:53):
that's the reality, though it's like.
Of course, I need money to paymy bills.
However, that's not my numberone priority in my job, where
I'm looking at my client in theface and I'm thinking how do I,
how do I navigate?
Getting this client what theyneed, giving them the support
and the space that they deserve,while also recognizing their
insurance company hasrequirements that must be met in
(14:17):
order for them not to end upwith a bill.
Liliana (14:20):
Wow.
So, even like in that piece,you just described things that
we don't think about when wegraduate and when we go to work.
Right, we choose the patheither social work systems, what
do we call LPCs what are theyknown for?
By the way, I was like, oh myGod, they're lost.
They're the lost child LPC.
(14:43):
We love you, but you're thelost child.
What is it you've done for?
Anyways?
That's another episode.
However, as you're saying that,I was like what was the class
that helped us sort this out?
Which is, what setting are youchoosing to work with?
That?
It will highlight those valuesof this path.
(15:06):
They got you ignited into thiswork, where now we know that
we're not making money or we'renot going to be famous.
And then, two, in that setting,what is their values in regards
to maintaining, you know, beingsustainable?
(15:26):
So, if they work withinsurances, understanding the
values of insurances is not thevalue of the setting, the system
that you're choosing to alignwith and work with and make
connections with, right, like,how do we start having those
conversations, either in schoolsettings or, in this case, for
you, maddie, which is like, oh,it took me a year just to start
(15:49):
sorting things out because itwas so overwhelming not having a
voice, and coming to a placewas asking me to have a voice
and I have to develop that.
It took me a year to developsome sort of sound.
Madi (16:04):
Oh yeah, and especially when I think so.
We tend to be very timid inthis field, especially early on,
where we're here to help, we'rehere to make people feel good.
And we smile when we say it.
That's just the feeling that wegive of.
Oh, you're the therapist, and Imean social work doesn't tend
(16:26):
to have that same ring, if I'mbeing honest.
But you play with kids all day,or whatever it is.
Liliana (16:34):
That's the whole thing that we can talk about.
We don't play with kids.
I see why.
Madi (16:40):
Why we think about it that way yeah, and how many times do
we get, oh you're, you're asaint for doing that work, or,
um, you you're.
It takes a very special kind ofperson.
I could never do that.
It's a calling.
Maria (16:57):
But then if you're in any of the Facebook or social media
groups, like there are diversevalues and voices and opinions
about how things quote unquoteshould be done and I think it is
important that people findtheir own first and stay true to
(17:22):
that right.
Because we did talk about, like, the larger systems, they're
constantly changing.
I know in our state every threeyears the Medicaid contracts go
up, the rules all change, theproviders all change, like
there's constant change in ourfield from the higher
organizations.
Liliana (17:40):
Yeah.
Maria (17:41):
And what it sounds like, Maddie, is what you're saying is
you can better navigate all ofthat when you've identified and
are true to your own values.
Madi (17:50):
Yeah, of course.
And how often are we helpingclients do that?
I mean, all systems shift andchange and life is unpredictable
, and we are are work alongsideclients as they are finding
their own inner compass, and sooftentimes we forget about our
(18:11):
own, especially in a field that,um, that focuses so heavily on
serving other people, which is awonderful, beautiful goal, but
then we tend to forget aboutourselves when in reality our
own identity is the only thingthat we have true control over
and that we can rest inconfidently, because the rest of
(18:32):
the world, who knows?
Liliana (18:37):
So, for all of you who are listening, like, what is it
that is resonating with you?
Right, because you go to asystem and they sell you the
idea of being a support systemfor others, but they tell you
that you don't exist.
Yeah, that you're a blanktemplate for the clients who
come in.
Right?
(18:57):
And?
And actually, what you areproposing, maddie and others are
proposing, is that actually?
No, you do have to have anidentity.
It's not just the blankidentity as a professional, but
also what is the human in you.
What are your values, eitherpersonal and professionally, how
they show up in the room inorder to help, in order to be at
(19:19):
service, but not be a floor mat.
Maria (19:23):
Yeah, so if they Google and they get a list and they go
through and they choose ahandful of values that matter to
them and are at the top oftheir list, what then?
I mean, besides clearly goingto a training that is hosted by
Maddie so that you can do thiswork, but like what next?
(19:46):
What else did you have to do?
Madi (19:50):
And honestly spent a lot of time just thinking what felt
in alignment, what didn't, whyit was a lot of just pondering
um, because, for example,sometimes we will get mixed
messages which become veryconfusing.
Um like in early on in mycareer, I got a lot of do
(20:13):
whatever you need to do, we'refor you, even in the height of a
genuine, like family crisis.
Um, take all the time you need.
Oh, by the way, here's 50 moreclients.
Liliana (20:25):
I'm sorry.
Madi (20:27):
So, which was exactly my experience, and so going back
through those experiences thathave felt incongruent and have
felt like they've rattled youand shaken your concept of what
you're doing, and figuring outwhy was the big thing for me,
and for me, experiencing a lotof that incongruence is the
(20:50):
thing that felt the mostunsettling, because I'd be
getting one message, but then,at the same time, I'd be getting
a completely different message,and it made me question me,
when in reality, it had nothingto do with me.
Which?
is usually the case, but whenyou're in the moment, when
you're especially when you'reyoung in the field and you're
(21:13):
trying to figure out so manythings at one time, it does make
you question yourself becauseyou assume, oh, it must be me,
because I don't know.
I haven't been doing this verylong, and so getting an
awareness of what is importantto you, exploring times where
it's felt congruent and whenit's felt incongruent, and
(21:35):
diving into why, and thenultimately kind of looking
towards the future of okay, butwhat do I want to look like, how
do I want to practice?
What kind of attitudes orboundaries or communication do I
want to have as a professional?
One thing I really encourage,too, is to look for role models,
(21:55):
because we don't have atemplate and I'll you'll never
be exactly like your role model,but you can learn from the
people around you, based off ofyour own values, of who, who
aligns with you, yeah, who youfeel safe and supported by yeah.
Liliana (22:14):
I love that mm-hmm.
And even if you're a seasonedtherapist right when you grew up
with, the template of this ishow we do things.
I feel like sometimes they havea hard time changing that
mindset because, like I, don'thave permission to do this.
It's always been done this way.
It's always been.
Yeah, that is the line, exactlyright.
(22:35):
This is how we do things.
It has always been, and this isthe checkboxes and so on and so
forth, and even like, withinthat professional level, the
identity formation which is thenwe get out, then we're dealing
with all of the systems that youjust mentioned, and then we
also have, like, and there'sthis model you have to go get
trained and certified and youhave this model now and no, this
(22:57):
is not acceptable, but this oneis.
It's so confusing because itseems like we're teenagers in
our field and we were neverallowed to grow up.
We get to question everythingthat we know, but we look up to
our old systems and they'retelling us you have to get
trained on this, not this.
No, don't do this Like it'salmost like we sign up oh my god
(23:21):
, am I having a?
What happened here?
But we sign up to be teenagersfor the rest of our lives but
maddie's telling us we don'thave to but we don't have to.
Madi (23:33):
Yeah, I think there's a almost an expectation that we
stay that way too.
Yes, and that and let's behonest, that's a power dynamic.
Yes, you just named it.
Thank you that, l, that is anelement of control, that that
keeps us at a certain level.
Yes, and one of the things thathas stood out to me also when
(23:58):
doing this research is Lisa Dionactually mentioned on this
podcast that her experience ofbringing something new to a
system is that it's violentlyopposed.
Yes, and so when there is apower dynamic and you start to
fight back or change or shift orintroduce a new idea, or start
(24:18):
to set boundaries differently orspeak up that this isn't the
way this needs to be, there ispushback, and in a lot of ways,
that is the first step to change, but it is heavy and we need to
be able to be strong andconfident within ourselves in
order to withstand that pushback, in order to make it through.
Liliana (24:49):
So think about that image, right, if we propose that
we've been set up to beteenagers all the time and what
you're proposing is likeactually, that's where we can
change those dynamics.
Do you remember when you werefive years old and you walk out
with whatever dress up, becauseyou look cute, because that's
all you saw and you were inpower?
And then you have that parentthat said, like that's right,
girl, you go with it.
They knew you were not going towalk far because the way that
(25:11):
you were dressed up, but youwere so confident in that moment
and that's what we want.
So I love that you evenmentioned, like what are the
mentors?
If you have access to them ornot, if you have access to them
or not.
If you have access to them,like you mentioned, because in a
podcast episode they werementioned.
I think that's what we need,right, like we're the fortunate
(25:32):
ones that when we wake up and westart seeing what are the role
models in our field, thatthey're shaking things off, that
they're naming things for us,that they're creating a
different pathway, not becausethey want you to follow it, but
because they're creating apathway of like go create your
own.
That's what we need.
Maria (25:56):
Well, I think that's the takeaway, right, like that's.
That's the call to action isnot just individuals, but if
you're in a position ofleadership or in these larger
organizations, like it's on you,to what, start questioning this
, start supporting this.
Like, maddie, if you had yourmagic wand, what would that?
(26:18):
What would that look like?
Madi (26:21):
Oh man, what I would do with that magic wand that
everybody tends to think youhave sometimes, and I, I think,
creating this culture of we'rewe're not cookie cutter.
I think that is ultimately thething that would lead to
everything else If people getthe opportunity to not only
(26:46):
explore who they areprofessionally, but also be
supported in the fact that it'sgoing to look different than me.
Yeah, no, two therapists aregoing to navigate a situation
exactly the same way, and that'sokay.
We need that diversity.
It's deeply, deeply important,and I think sometimes what
(27:06):
happens is if a, if a cliniciancomes up and doesn't spend time
forming their own professionalidentity, becoming in tune with
who they are and being able torest in the confidence that I am
competent, I don't knoweverything, but I can do my job
well and I can learn and grow,and so on and so forth, and then
(27:29):
they become supervisory roles.
It creates a lot of potentialfor a lack of confidence,
insecurity, and then thattrickles down, and then a lot of
times, it can feel threateningor it can feel uncomfortable of,
oh wait, I'm supervising thisperson, but they do something
(27:52):
completely different than me,and that can be extremely
uncomfortable.
And so, in order to stop thatcycle.
I would really hope that peoplespend time in their own
pondering, in their own work,exploring what's important to
them in order to gain thatconfidence, gain that security
in themselves, because it'sgoing to be tested, and then
(28:15):
that is a gift that they canpass on to other people as well.
Liliana (28:19):
I just smiled when you said that, because I feel like
Maria and I we're both LMFTs,right, but we're so different
the way that we talk.
But anytime that I get asupervisor and they tell me I do
this, and I'll be like puttinga smile, like tell me more, I
did not know that I could dothat, that even like I want to
learn from you, like tell me,but that's the idea, right, that
(28:47):
we are being um exposed to,thanks to you guys, this new
generation that is coming out.
We are, we are the in between.
We're like the middle of thatsandwich, um, and, and we're
like, oh, things can bedifferent and I'm here for the
ride, right, but not everyone isgoing through this because not
everyone has the same resources.
But I love that you'rementioning what we're not cookie
(29:09):
cutters.
We went to our master's programwith the idea that we all have
to be the same.
We go and study models thattell us speak like this.
So everyone is working tocreate cookie cutters and
actually, what helped us in ourprofessional identity formation
is that being different.
Diversity, as you mentioned, iswhat helped us breathe, help us
(29:34):
not go into burnout, help us bein this field for a longer
period of time, being able topay it forward, being able to
supervise, being able to do allthese things that you are
mentioning here.
Madi (29:45):
Yeah, yeah.
And the idea is, too, thathaving a strong sense of your
professional identity does notmean you stay in the same place
for your entire career.
I think, too, that cansometimes come across as and now
you're stuck, and that is notthe case.
This is not a chain that keepsyou to whatever position you're
(30:06):
in now.
It's a guide, it's a map thatyou create that helps you make
decisions of where do I belong?
Is it time for me to move on?
Maria (30:16):
Should I get trained in that new?
Madi (30:18):
modality, because if it aligns and if I, if I want to
and have the capacity andresources, wonderful.
Or am I just interested in thisbecause all the voices around
me are telling me I should be?
Liliana (30:30):
yes, there you go.
Yeah, so you're a gps, you'renot just a map.
And if you're ever like me inthe gps, the gps is cussing at
me all the time because it'srerouting.
Maria (30:39):
Recalculating.
Liliana (30:40):
Recalculating.
So the invitation, what I'mhearing from you, maddie, is
keep rerouting until you findyour path, absolutely.
And even when you find yourpath, you may have to reroute
again because your values changeas you are aging, which is not
a bad thing, or as you'rebecoming more experienced in our
(31:03):
professional settings, which isnot a bad thing, or as you're
becoming more experienced in ourprofessional settings, which is
not a bad thing, but you get toreroute in order to find
yourself, and that is the idea,absolutely.
Madi (31:12):
Yeah, and in fact you need to reroute.
That's a requirement ofprofessional identity.
Formation is to look around youand constantly reassess what is
working and what is not.
Liliana (31:26):
Oh, I'm loving this conversation.
What about you, Maria?
Maria (31:30):
Yes, maddie, what a gift.
What a gift I mean.
Just I know.
I mean, if you've seen Maddiespeak at all, you know that
she's very passionate about thisand this is your first touch
point with Maddie.
I really do hope you take acouple of minutes and Google a
values list and sit down.
You know, maybe it's you takeyour morning coffee and you sit
(31:52):
with yourself for a minute andgo what are the things right now
for me that are at the top?
But yeah, maddie, this is huge.
This is huge.
I think you've tapped intosomething that we need to
continue talking about.
We need to, not just from thebottom up, right from
(32:12):
professionals, but from top down.
Organizations need to hear thistoo and to have this
consideration and thisinformation.
Madi (32:21):
What a gift.
Maria (32:22):
You are Maddie.
Madi (32:23):
Well, thank you, I was born out of my own necessity, to
be honest, and how many timesdoes that also happen?
And one thing I want to extendto is as someone who has been in
a situation that has feltabsolutely hopeless
professionally and that I wasgoing to throw my whole life
into a loop.
There is a place out there foryou hopeless professionally and
that I was going to throw mywhole life into a loop there,
there is a place out there foryou.
(32:45):
And even if you make ityourself, find your people
yourself, if your role modelsare fictional characters, that's
good enough and you can find itand it's out there.
Liliana (33:01):
Oh, what a nice way to close down.
This episode was like, okay, Ican grow up then.
I'm not afraid I'm ready to belunch on then, maddie, thank you
.
Thank you for speaking um, notonly such a warm um from a warm
place, of just inviting us to becurious when we don't have the
(33:23):
answers.
Google right, like then askeveryone around you what are
your values when we don't havedeveloped that voice yet.
And the perfect example, eventhough you mentioned today it
took me a year, it's okay.
If it's a year, six months,five, like, it doesn't matter is
can you attune to find yourvoice?
Madi (33:47):
Absolutely, and thank you guys for this platform to share
this.
This is a wonderful opportunityand I hope people are able to
look into their own professionalidentity formation a little bit
more now.
Liliana (33:58):
I love it Love this and I hope that, as Maria extended
like that, you come back and wecontinue talking about this
topic and we will include forour listeners, maddie's
information in case you don'thave to stalk her.
You can just like go with theinformation that we're going to
provide and go find her so thatyou can have find her trainings.
We're so lucky to have you inour field.
(34:20):
Thank you for being here thismorning.
No-transcript.
Welcome back listeners.
We have a very exciting episodetoday.
Today, liliana, we're going totalk about professional identity
formation.
Liliana (00:12):
Such a grown-up discussion this morning.
Is it Friday?
Is it Monday?
What's happening today?
Maria (00:19):
We're going to pretend to be adults for a moment.
I know that's a stretch forthose of you that know us, but
we're going to try adult for amoment.
Liliana (00:25):
I know that's a stretch for those of you that know us,
but we're going to try and forthat topic we're going to have
our special guest, maddie.
Maddie, how do you want?
to introduce yourself to ourlisteners.
Madi (00:35):
Hi, yeah, my name is Maddie Duran.
I work and live in Las Cruces,New Mexico.
I am a licensed clinical socialworker, a pending registered
behavior I'm sorry a pendingregistered play therapist and a
pending EMDR certified therapist.
So many pending credentials.
Liliana (00:55):
Come on, associations, get your shit together.
Maria (00:59):
Get on it.
Get on it.
She's worked so hard.
Liliana (01:05):
Well, thank you for being here and thank you for
coming to discuss this hugetopic, which is as we were
talking about it.
Right when you saidprofessional identity formation,
is this evolution that we don'ttend to think about when we go
to school, when we say I want tobe a mental health therapist,
(01:26):
whatever credential that is, andthen how that is just the
foundation, is almost like Igave birth to you.
Now, what are you going to do?
And that's what you're going totalk to us about?
Madi (01:42):
Yeah, so I came across the concept of professional
identity formation when actuallyresearching burnout prevention.
I, through my own professionalidentity formation, went through
a very heavy time of deepburnout and coming through the
other side of that.
(02:02):
And coming through the otherside of that.
My big passion now is how do weprevent that from happening
again, both for myself and forother people?
And one of the most interestingthings that I found, at least
(02:29):
in my opinion, when researchingburnout, was that the symptoms
of burnout heavily replicate thesymptoms of an identity crisis.
Oh, wow, yeah.
And so when people are inburnout, a lot of times what we
see is questioning why am I here?
What am I doing?
Does?
Maria (02:40):
this mean anything.
Madi (02:41):
People oftentimes will start fantasizing about other
careers or other lives.
Or did I make a mistakechoosing this career?
Am I not meant to be here?
Bleeds into personalrelationships as well, and a lot
of people start questioning who?
Maria (02:58):
they are.
Yeah, I think that's I meanLiliana as supervisor.
That's something that we seeall the time, with those that
are edging their way.
Getting a little crispy aroundthe edges is what I like to say.
Right, edging their way toburnout.
And, maddie, I've had thepleasure of being able to like
know you and work really closelywith you.
You started experiencingburnout fairly early in your
(03:22):
licensure career.
Madi (03:24):
Absolutely yeah.
So I started out in a highstress environment and I lasted
about two years and I was likethat's it I can.
I remember the exact momentwhen I realized I can't do this
anymore, like this is not it.
And I was.
(03:45):
I did everything except signpapers to start a whole new
career.
I had the papers, I was readyto go, everything was set in
stone and I was out because Iknew I couldn't live that way
anymore.
And I was talking to otherpeople in a similar environment
and that was a similar timeline.
(04:06):
Was this two to five years thatpeople were done and that was
their cap?
And that's really scary.
To have gotten two degrees know, I wanted to do this for a long
time and then get two years inand go oh wait, I can't do this.
(04:27):
Not one more second, can I dothis?
That's a very unsettlingfeeling.
Liliana (04:31):
So for our listeners, like how many of you are
automatically saying like, yes,yes, yes, that sounded like
something else, but yes, likethat is me right.
Which is one I want you to knowthat you're not alone.
As supervisors, we tend to hearthis.
Two, there was the researchdone during COVID, I think it
(04:52):
came out that most of us, thenew generations, are going to be
switching careers three to fivetimes in their lifetime, which
I'm like how are they affordingdegrees?
So they were not talkingnecessarily about degrees, but
that's what they were saying.
And then, too, as you weretalking about how many of you
have gone through this alreadywhen, when you say you know we
(05:15):
go to, we finish our master'sprogram, like how many of you
are going to be like, yes,sister, how many of us finish
our master's program?
Then they tell you an internship, like you have to pay your dues
, you're working to pay yourbills, and then you're doing
this last push to get yourdegree and you're already coming
(05:35):
out of the school systemexhausted, right?
And for all of you who are notseeing, just when you know that
the three of us are like noddingyes, yes.
And for all of you who are notseeing, just when you know that
(05:57):
the three of us are like noddingyes, yes, and then you go.
However you call it in yourstate or country, you go, get
out of, you're less than becauseyou don't have this licensure
yet and therefore they give youinsane hours, insane cases,
because you know you have to payyour dues and you have to
acquire live experience.
How will you know?
(06:18):
And when you're describing twoto five years of burnout, I was
like that sounds about right.
You get your license and youare exhausted.
Maria (06:29):
Yeah.
Madi (06:32):
And life doesn't slow down too outside of that, no, and
you?
Liliana (06:36):
still have to pay your bills.
And then, when we go in ourmental health field and they
tell us like well, what kind ofself-care are you doing?
One besides flipping them off,I'm wondering, wondering, like,
how are you taking care of you?
Right, because self-care alsohas been sold.
The idea of you have to spendmoney for self-care and you have
to pay bills, and you have topay student loans, and you have
(06:59):
to go to work, and if you're acontractor, like if you are an,
an employee, like it's all thesethings that come with it.
Maria (07:05):
so, um, maddie, when you're like hey, we go to an
identity crisis, that soundsabout right right, yeah,
absolutely, and it and it almostfeels like if, if you were able
to lean into this formation.
That is self-care.
So you kind of mean, you kindof fell into this for yourself,
(07:28):
but what are you finding?
What are you wanting otherclinicians to know so that they
can maybe take some of thesesteps?
Madi (07:37):
Absolutely yeah, I.
The first thing is thatprofessional identity formation
is a very fancy word, like youmentioned of.
Oh, we're going to talk aboutvery adult concepts today, which
, yes, however, it is not acomplex concept, it is not
something we need to overthink.
(07:57):
It is deeply personal and it'snot a point that we suddenly get
to and we're like yep.
I have formed my ownprofessional identity Check.
It is a process that spans yourentire career.
It's the same way in our ownpersonal lives and our personal
(08:18):
identity, when we never stopchanging and growing and
shifting, changing and growingand shifting.
So the idea is exploring yourown personal values and how they
align or conflict with yourprofessional values in your
professional setting.
And so that sounds simple.
(08:40):
It's a lot harder to do inactual practice because when I
first heard that, I was likewhat, yeah, and it reminded me
of Maria.
Actually, when you showed me myoffice for the very first time
after switching over to workingat A New Hope, I remember you
asking me what I thought of thecolor of the walls, and I
(09:04):
remember thinking I don't knowwhat I think because I didn't
know I could ever have anopinion like that.
Maria (09:12):
Yeah.
Madi (09:14):
At my previous job, I couldn't have an opinion on
anything.
That wasn't a privilege or afreedom I had.
And then something as simple asthe wall color just stopped me
in my tracks and I was like, ohmy gosh, I don't even know.
Solid year, I think, to fullycome down and fully explore what
(09:39):
was actually important to me,especially in a job environment.
It took me a lot of trial anderror and again I had the
privilege of being able to trialand error what worked for me.
But, yeah, it took a full yearfor me to be able to realize
what's important to me in a job,what works for my life, what
(10:01):
I'm willing to put up withbecause the fact is, this field
is hard and it is stressful andit is overwhelming, and what
parts of that can I put up withor handle or have the capacity
to take on, and what can I nottake on.
And so all of that contributedto me starting to build an
(10:21):
understanding of who I am inthis field.
Liliana (10:26):
Yeah, wow, yeah.
So for all of you who arelistening right like, think
about this what are the valueseither personal and professional
and how they're aligning orconflicting.
So it's an invitation actuallyof that wisdom that we all have
in regards to what works for meand how am I going to be in
(10:47):
community, in this professionalcommunity, without invalidating
my personal values, so that Ican develop this voice not only
personally but professionally.
Maria (11:00):
And Maddie, I know this journey started for you before,
but I'm thinking this is sosuper relevant right now in our
field and specifically in ourcountry, in our profession,
where we're seeing a lot ofpushback and boxing and demands.
I'm wondering if there are likeexamples that come to mind of
(11:24):
like here is where they mightclash and here is where they
might align, so that people canhave a feel for, like what does
this actually look like?
If I'm going to go back through, if I sit down today and think
about where I'm working and whatthe work I'm doing, how do I
know?
Madi (11:42):
Yeah, that's a great question, and one thing that,
especially when looking atvalues, I feel like has helped
me is literally Googling a listof values, because it's so hard
to name them, especially inourselves.
Sometimes it's so hard to evencome up like have a starting
block of where to go, um, and sothat would be my first step is
(12:03):
to just encourage people to lookat a list of values, see what
resonates with you first, andone thing to note on this is
there will never be in thesystem that we exist in you,
there will never be anenvironment that aligns 100%
with all of our values.
When we work in a medical system, when we're navigating
(12:28):
insurance companies, when we arenavigating fluctuating
government policies and laws andvoices, we're never going to be
an environment that 100% aligns.
Liliana (12:41):
Let it rain, sister, go on.
Madi (12:45):
Which there's, at least for me.
There's a grief in that that is.
That's a heavy thought of like.
There will never be anenvironment that 100% aligns.
However, we can find the placesthat do, and we can find the
places that do fill our cups inways in which we can feel like
(13:05):
we belong and we are supportedand support other people as well
.
So one of my first examples ofhow values don't align is, for
example, if you are navigatinginsurance companies I think
that's a very common challengethat a lot of our field deals
(13:26):
with is that insurancecompanies' values are money and
that's really the bottom line.
And, quite frankly, I didn't getinto social work for the money
and the fame, so that is not oneof my number one values Shocker
, I know.
Maria (13:48):
Bursting bubbles this morning, Maddie Bursting bubbles
.
Madi (13:53):
that's the reality, though it's like.
Of course, I need money to paymy bills.
However, that's not my numberone priority in my job, where
I'm looking at my client in theface and I'm thinking how do I,
how do I navigate?
Getting this client what theyneed, giving them the support
and the space that they deserve,while also recognizing their
insurance company hasrequirements that must be met in
(14:17):
order for them not to end upwith a bill.
Liliana (14:20):
Wow.
So, even like in that piece,you just described things that
we don't think about when wegraduate and when we go to work.
Right, we choose the patheither social work systems, what
do we call LPCs what are theyknown for?
By the way, I was like, oh myGod, they're lost.
They're the lost child LPC.
(14:43):
We love you, but you're thelost child.
What is it you've done for?
Anyways?
That's another episode.
However, as you're saying that,I was like what was the class
that helped us sort this out?
Which is, what setting are youchoosing to work with?
That?
It will highlight those valuesof this path.
(15:06):
They got you ignited into thiswork, where now we know that
we're not making money or we'renot going to be famous.
And then, two, in that setting,what is their values in regards
to maintaining, you know, beingsustainable?
(15:26):
So, if they work withinsurances, understanding the
values of insurances is not thevalue of the setting, the system
that you're choosing to alignwith and work with and make
connections with, right, like,how do we start having those
conversations, either in schoolsettings or, in this case, for
you, maddie, which is like, oh,it took me a year just to start
(15:49):
sorting things out because itwas so overwhelming not having a
voice, and coming to a placewas asking me to have a voice
and I have to develop that.
It took me a year to developsome sort of sound.
Madi (16:04):
Oh yeah, and especially when I think so.
We tend to be very timid inthis field, especially early on,
where we're here to help, we'rehere to make people feel good.
And we smile when we say it.
That's just the feeling that wegive of.
Oh, you're the therapist, and Imean social work doesn't tend
(16:26):
to have that same ring, if I'mbeing honest.
But you play with kids all day,or whatever it is.
Liliana (16:34):
That's the whole thing that we can talk about.
We don't play with kids.
I see why.
Madi (16:40):
Why we think about it that way yeah, and how many times do
we get, oh you're, you're asaint for doing that work, or,
um, you you're.
It takes a very special kind ofperson.
I could never do that.
It's a calling.
Maria (16:57):
But then if you're in any of the Facebook or social media
groups, like there are diversevalues and voices and opinions
about how things quote unquoteshould be done and I think it is
important that people findtheir own first and stay true to
(17:22):
that right.
Because we did talk about, like, the larger systems, they're
constantly changing.
I know in our state every threeyears the Medicaid contracts go
up, the rules all change, theproviders all change, like
there's constant change in ourfield from the higher
organizations.
Liliana (17:40):
Yeah.
Maria (17:41):
And what it sounds like, Maddie, is what you're saying is
you can better navigate all ofthat when you've identified and
are true to your own values.
Madi (17:50):
Yeah, of course.
And how often are we helpingclients do that?
I mean, all systems shift andchange and life is unpredictable
, and we are are work alongsideclients as they are finding
their own inner compass, and sooftentimes we forget about our
(18:11):
own, especially in a field that,um, that focuses so heavily on
serving other people, which is awonderful, beautiful goal, but
then we tend to forget aboutourselves when in reality our
own identity is the only thingthat we have true control over
and that we can rest inconfidently, because the rest of
(18:32):
the world, who knows?
Liliana (18:37):
So, for all of you who are listening, like, what is it
that is resonating with you?
Right, because you go to asystem and they sell you the
idea of being a support systemfor others, but they tell you
that you don't exist.
Yeah, that you're a blanktemplate for the clients who
come in.
Right?
(18:57):
And?
And actually, what you areproposing, maddie and others are
proposing, is that actually?
No, you do have to have anidentity.
It's not just the blankidentity as a professional, but
also what is the human in you.
What are your values, eitherpersonal and professionally, how
they show up in the room inorder to help, in order to be at
(19:19):
service, but not be a floor mat.
Maria (19:23):
Yeah, so if they Google and they get a list and they go
through and they choose ahandful of values that matter to
them and are at the top oftheir list, what then?
I mean, besides clearly goingto a training that is hosted by
Maddie so that you can do thiswork, but like what next?
(19:46):
What else did you have to do?
Madi (19:50):
And honestly spent a lot of time just thinking what felt
in alignment, what didn't, whyit was a lot of just pondering
um, because, for example,sometimes we will get mixed
messages which become veryconfusing.
Um like in early on in mycareer, I got a lot of do
(20:13):
whatever you need to do, we'refor you, even in the height of a
genuine, like family crisis.
Um, take all the time you need.
Oh, by the way, here's 50 moreclients.
Liliana (20:25):
I'm sorry.
Madi (20:27):
So, which was exactly my experience, and so going back
through those experiences thathave felt incongruent and have
felt like they've rattled youand shaken your concept of what
you're doing, and figuring outwhy was the big thing for me,
and for me, experiencing a lotof that incongruence is the
(20:50):
thing that felt the mostunsettling, because I'd be
getting one message, but then,at the same time, I'd be getting
a completely different message,and it made me question me,
when in reality, it had nothingto do with me.
Which?
is usually the case, but whenyou're in the moment, when
you're especially when you'reyoung in the field and you're
(21:13):
trying to figure out so manythings at one time, it does make
you question yourself becauseyou assume, oh, it must be me,
because I don't know.
I haven't been doing this verylong, and so getting an
awareness of what is importantto you, exploring times where
it's felt congruent and whenit's felt incongruent, and
(21:35):
diving into why, and thenultimately kind of looking
towards the future of okay, butwhat do I want to look like, how
do I want to practice?
What kind of attitudes orboundaries or communication do I
want to have as a professional?
One thing I really encourage,too, is to look for role models,
(21:55):
because we don't have atemplate and I'll you'll never
be exactly like your role model,but you can learn from the
people around you, based off ofyour own values, of who, who
aligns with you, yeah, who youfeel safe and supported by yeah.
Liliana (22:14):
I love that mm-hmm.
And even if you're a seasonedtherapist right when you grew up
with, the template of this ishow we do things.
I feel like sometimes they havea hard time changing that
mindset because, like I, don'thave permission to do this.
It's always been done this way.
It's always been.
Yeah, that is the line, exactlyright.
(22:35):
This is how we do things.
It has always been, and this isthe checkboxes and so on and so
forth, and even like, withinthat professional level, the
identity formation which is thenwe get out, then we're dealing
with all of the systems that youjust mentioned, and then we
also have, like, and there'sthis model you have to go get
trained and certified and youhave this model now and no, this
(22:57):
is not acceptable, but this oneis.
It's so confusing because itseems like we're teenagers in
our field and we were neverallowed to grow up.
We get to question everythingthat we know, but we look up to
our old systems and they'retelling us you have to get
trained on this, not this.
No, don't do this Like it'salmost like we sign up oh my god
(23:21):
, am I having a?
What happened here?
But we sign up to be teenagersfor the rest of our lives but
maddie's telling us we don'thave to but we don't have to.
Madi (23:33):
Yeah, I think there's a almost an expectation that we
stay that way too.
Yes, and that and let's behonest, that's a power dynamic.
Yes, you just named it.
Thank you that, l, that is anelement of control, that that
keeps us at a certain level.
Yes, and one of the things thathas stood out to me also when
(23:58):
doing this research is Lisa Dionactually mentioned on this
podcast that her experience ofbringing something new to a
system is that it's violentlyopposed.
Yes, and so when there is apower dynamic and you start to
fight back or change or shift orintroduce a new idea, or start
(24:18):
to set boundaries differently orspeak up that this isn't the
way this needs to be, there ispushback, and in a lot of ways,
that is the first step to change, but it is heavy and we need to
be able to be strong andconfident within ourselves in
order to withstand that pushback, in order to make it through.
Liliana (24:49):
So think about that image, right, if we propose that
we've been set up to beteenagers all the time and what
you're proposing is likeactually, that's where we can
change those dynamics.
Do you remember when you werefive years old and you walk out
with whatever dress up, becauseyou look cute, because that's
all you saw and you were inpower?
And then you have that parentthat said, like that's right,
girl, you go with it.
They knew you were not going towalk far because the way that
(25:11):
you were dressed up, but youwere so confident in that moment
and that's what we want.
So I love that you evenmentioned, like what are the
mentors?
If you have access to them ornot, if you have access to them
or not.
If you have access to them,like you mentioned, because in a
podcast episode they werementioned.
I think that's what we need,right, like we're the fortunate
(25:32):
ones that when we wake up and westart seeing what are the role
models in our field, thatthey're shaking things off, that
they're naming things for us,that they're creating a
different pathway, not becausethey want you to follow it, but
because they're creating apathway of like go create your
own.
That's what we need.
Maria (25:56):
Well, I think that's the takeaway, right, like that's.
That's the call to action isnot just individuals, but if
you're in a position ofleadership or in these larger
organizations, like it's on you,to what, start questioning this
, start supporting this.
Like, maddie, if you had yourmagic wand, what would that?
(26:18):
What would that look like?
Madi (26:21):
Oh man, what I would do with that magic wand that
everybody tends to think youhave sometimes, and I, I think,
creating this culture of we'rewe're not cookie cutter.
I think that is ultimately thething that would lead to
everything else If people getthe opportunity to not only
(26:46):
explore who they areprofessionally, but also be
supported in the fact that it'sgoing to look different than me.
Yeah, no, two therapists aregoing to navigate a situation
exactly the same way, and that'sokay.
We need that diversity.
It's deeply, deeply important,and I think sometimes what
(27:06):
happens is if a, if a cliniciancomes up and doesn't spend time
forming their own professionalidentity, becoming in tune with
who they are and being able torest in the confidence that I am
competent, I don't knoweverything, but I can do my job
well and I can learn and grow,and so on and so forth, and then
(27:29):
they become supervisory roles.
It creates a lot of potentialfor a lack of confidence,
insecurity, and then thattrickles down, and then a lot of
times, it can feel threateningor it can feel uncomfortable of,
oh wait, I'm supervising thisperson, but they do something
(27:52):
completely different than me,and that can be extremely
uncomfortable.
And so, in order to stop thatcycle.
I would really hope that peoplespend time in their own
pondering, in their own work,exploring what's important to
them in order to gain thatconfidence, gain that security
in themselves, because it'sgoing to be tested, and then
(28:15):
that is a gift that they canpass on to other people as well.
Liliana (28:19):
I just smiled when you said that, because I feel like
Maria and I we're both LMFTs,right, but we're so different
the way that we talk.
But anytime that I get asupervisor and they tell me I do
this, and I'll be like puttinga smile, like tell me more, I
did not know that I could dothat, that even like I want to
learn from you, like tell me,but that's the idea, right, that
(28:47):
we are being um exposed to,thanks to you guys, this new
generation that is coming out.
We are, we are the in between.
We're like the middle of thatsandwich, um, and, and we're
like, oh, things can bedifferent and I'm here for the
ride, right, but not everyone isgoing through this because not
everyone has the same resources.
But I love that you'rementioning what we're not cookie
(29:09):
cutters.
We went to our master's programwith the idea that we all have
to be the same.
We go and study models thattell us speak like this.
So everyone is working tocreate cookie cutters and
actually, what helped us in ourprofessional identity formation
is that being different.
Diversity, as you mentioned, iswhat helped us breathe, help us
(29:34):
not go into burnout, help us bein this field for a longer
period of time, being able topay it forward, being able to
supervise, being able to do allthese things that you are
mentioning here.
Madi (29:45):
Yeah, yeah.
And the idea is, too, thathaving a strong sense of your
professional identity does notmean you stay in the same place
for your entire career.
I think, too, that cansometimes come across as and now
you're stuck, and that is notthe case.
This is not a chain that keepsyou to whatever position you're
(30:06):
in now.
It's a guide, it's a map thatyou create that helps you make
decisions of where do I belong?
Is it time for me to move on?
Maria (30:16):
Should I get trained in that new?
Madi (30:18):
modality, because if it aligns and if I, if I want to
and have the capacity andresources, wonderful.
Or am I just interested in thisbecause all the voices around
me are telling me I should be?
Liliana (30:30):
yes, there you go.
Yeah, so you're a gps, you'renot just a map.
And if you're ever like me inthe gps, the gps is cussing at
me all the time because it'srerouting.
Maria (30:39):
Recalculating.
Liliana (30:40):
Recalculating.
So the invitation, what I'mhearing from you, maddie, is
keep rerouting until you findyour path, absolutely.
And even when you find yourpath, you may have to reroute
again because your values changeas you are aging, which is not
a bad thing, or as you'rebecoming more experienced in our
(31:03):
professional settings, which isnot a bad thing, or as you're
becoming more experienced in ourprofessional settings, which is
not a bad thing, but you get toreroute in order to find
yourself, and that is the idea,absolutely.
Madi (31:12):
Yeah, and in fact you need to reroute.
That's a requirement ofprofessional identity.
Formation is to look around youand constantly reassess what is
working and what is not.
Liliana (31:26):
Oh, I'm loving this conversation.
What about you, Maria?
Maria (31:30):
Yes, maddie, what a gift.
What a gift I mean.
Just I know.
I mean, if you've seen Maddiespeak at all, you know that
she's very passionate about thisand this is your first touch
point with Maddie.
I really do hope you take acouple of minutes and Google a
values list and sit down.
You know, maybe it's you takeyour morning coffee and you sit
(31:52):
with yourself for a minute andgo what are the things right now
for me that are at the top?
But yeah, maddie, this is huge.
This is huge.
I think you've tapped intosomething that we need to
continue talking about.
We need to, not just from thebottom up, right from
(32:12):
professionals, but from top down.
Organizations need to hear thistoo and to have this
consideration and thisinformation.
Madi (32:21):
What a gift.
Maria (32:22):
You are Maddie.
Madi (32:23):
Well, thank you, I was born out of my own necessity, to
be honest, and how many timesdoes that also happen?
And one thing I want to extendto is as someone who has been in
a situation that has feltabsolutely hopeless
professionally and that I wasgoing to throw my whole life
into a loop.
There is a place out there foryou hopeless professionally and
that I was going to throw mywhole life into a loop there,
there is a place out there foryou.
(32:45):
And even if you make ityourself, find your people
yourself, if your role modelsare fictional characters, that's
good enough and you can find itand it's out there.
Liliana (33:01):
Oh, what a nice way to close down.
This episode was like, okay, Ican grow up then.
I'm not afraid I'm ready to belunch on then, maddie, thank you
.
Thank you for speaking um, notonly such a warm um from a warm
place, of just inviting us to becurious when we don't have the
(33:23):
answers.
Google right, like then askeveryone around you what are
your values when we don't havedeveloped that voice yet.
And the perfect example, eventhough you mentioned today it
took me a year, it's okay.
If it's a year, six months,five, like, it doesn't matter is
can you attune to find yourvoice?
Madi (33:47):
Absolutely, and thank you guys for this platform to share
this.
This is a wonderful opportunityand I hope people are able to
look into their own professionalidentity formation a little bit
more now.
Liliana (33:58):
I love it Love this and I hope that, as Maria extended
like that, you come back and wecontinue talking about this
topic and we will include forour listeners, maddie's
information in case you don'thave to stalk her.
You can just like go with theinformation that we're going to
provide and go find her so thatyou can have find her trainings.
We're so lucky to have you inour field.
(34:20):
Thank you for being here thismorning.
No-transcript.
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