January 30, 2025 • 22 mins
Jessica Cauthorne is back for a special bonus episode of A Hero's Welcome Podcast, and she’s bringing her insights on the power of inclusive representation in play therapy. Discover how her upcoming workshop at the Play Therapy Disney Bound conference is set to revolutionize approaches to mental health support for the LGBTQ+ community. Learn how beloved Disney narratives like The Owl House and Strange World are more than just entertainment—they’re vital tools for visibility and connection. Jessica shares how therapists can creatively incorporate these cultural symbols to foster a deeper sense of comfort and identity understanding for their clients.
Plus, we unravel the complexities of gender diversity, spotlighting the evolving language surrounding transgender identities and the profound importance of pronoun usage. Through personal stories and professional expertise, we emphasize the fluidity and intent behind language, advocating for genuine respect and support for younger generations. As political landscapes shift, Jessica helps us understand the critical role of community support in ensuring a safe and accepting environment for all. This episode promises to leave you inspired and equipped with practical insights to help create a more inclusive world.
A Hero's Welcome Podcast © Maria Laquerre-Diego & Liliana Baylon
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Maria (00:02):
welcome back listeners for an extra special bonus
episode of a hero's welcomepodcast.
I am your co-host, maria laquerdiego, and I'm here with my
ever playful co-host liliana.
Liliana (00:14):
Uh, excuse me, princess liliana, we started this week
that's right, I forgot princessliliana.
Maria (00:22):
Thank you thank you.
Liliana (00:24):
And we are here with the amazing Jessica.
But, jessica, how do you wantto introduce yourself to all our
listeners?
Uh, yeah, hi, I'm Jessicaexcuse me, princess, do you want
to take advantage of this?
Jessica (00:38):
no, I don't think princess Jessica needs to happen
.
I think the world should bespared a princess Jessica.
If anything, I'd be more on theevil side, maybe, but yes, I am
Jessica Cawthorn.
Maria (00:49):
And welcome back.
Welcome back, this is yourthird stop by.
For us, it's exciting to beback.
Liliana (00:54):
Thanks for having me, guys.
Thank you and Maria.
Why do you say that we're here?
Why do you say that we'repromoting?
Maria (01:00):
Excuse me, yeah, so Jessica was a speaker last year
for play therapy disney boundand has so graciously returned
this year to continue being aspeaker for us.
So play therapy disney bound ismy week-long conference um,
addressing all things playtherapy in the magic of
(01:22):
Disneyland, where we integratelearning and playing so that we
both are taking care ofourselves and furthering our
skills for our clinicians.
Liliana (01:34):
So, for anyone who has not registered yet, we have I
think you said four spots, four,that's it.
So people listen, you have togo.
I had the pleasure of takingJessica's training last year and
last year yeah, last year andoh my God, it was so amazing.
(01:58):
I took so many notes.
I keep referencing thattraining Talks about it all the
time.
So please go, jessica, tell uswhat is it that you're going to
be teaching this year?
Jessica (02:10):
Okay, so this year the workshop that I'm doing is Play
Therapy with the LGBTQ pluscommunity connection through
Disney and pop culture inclusionthat's the title and pretty
much what we're looking at isDisney and other pop cultures
have been starting to make moreinclusion of the queer community
(02:32):
and I'm using queer as a broad,loving term to include
everybody under that umbrella.
And people need to be seen.
They need representation ofthemselves in the world as
they're figuring out who theyare and feel understood.
And the queer community is athighest risk for a lot of mental
health and suicidality andother struggles.
(02:53):
And if we can see ourselves onthe screen or see somebody that
might be struggling withsomething that we're struggling
with out there in the world, wedon't feel so alone, especially
because that coming out processcan be very isolating, lonely
and take some time.
So we're looking at ways toperhaps have more visibility and
(03:14):
connection that people can see,to increase that comfort, so
they're able to move towardscoming out safely and feel that
they're not so alone throughDisney and other pop culture.
Liliana (03:27):
Yeah, love it, love it right, especially for play
therapists who, with goodintentions, want to go and do
this work, and we need trainingin regards to that safety
component that you justmentioned.
Their story and theirrepresentation Beautiful, yes,
yeah.
Maria (03:44):
And it's been so nice to see lately, you know, in the
last couple of years, Disneybeing such a beacon of
progression and acceptance andinclusivity, because we we don't
see that everywhere else forfor big media components, you
know I mean we've talked before.
I'm a Disney adult, I'm a hugenerd.
(04:06):
Uh, these fandoms are importantto me and there are lots of
large fandoms that arestruggling now because the
people behind those fandoms arenot safe people, they're not
allies, they're very harmful.
So to have a big player likedisney stand ground and put out
(04:26):
shows and cartoons that havequeer representation is so
impactful.
Jessica (04:33):
It really is and you know the relationship hasn't
always been smooth and some ofmy research I learned I wasn't
familiar with the show.
Maybe you ladies are the OwlHouse.
It's on Disney Plus and it'sextremely large within the
community.
I mean there was overt same-sexcouples, parents, lead figures
that were gay.
I mean it was really very, veryinclusive and it made it three
(04:55):
seasons, I believe it was,before it ended up not going the
rest of the way.
But Disney did allow for thatto start and though it got a
little, I think maybe strongerthan they they had anticipated
and that was part of thepullback it was still there and
it's still up.
Nothing's been pulled.
Um, you know there's some debateabout, you know, the first
same-sex kiss in the Star Warsseries and live action ever to
(05:17):
happen and they thought it wasgoing to be with main characters
and it was like two sidecharacters.
As it panned by, it was stillthere and let me tell you, my
daughter and I were cheeringwhen we saw that.
Um.
But yeah, I mean it takesvarious forms and stuff and I've
also been finding through myresearch there's a lot of um,
you know, fandom, where peopleare maybe seeing same-sex
(05:40):
coupling or um relationships, oridentifying somebody as being
gay or non-binary or you knowsomewhere on that spectrum that
maybe not, but there's enoughthere that it could be, and that
desire again to see thatrepresentation is so strong that
it's found regardless.
And so, even if Disney isn'tovertly being like, yes, this is
(06:03):
a lesbian character or yes,this person is non-binary,
people are identifying that ontheir own and still finding
comfort in that, which isbeautiful, right, narrate the
story in a way that makes sensefor you.
And how can we support that astherapists in our playroom?
How can we incorporate that andhave again representation of
pop culture, figures or symbolsor whatever that somebody will
(06:26):
see and be like?
Maria (06:27):
oh, I know what that means.
That means they get it.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean it comes to mind thecartoon Strange World that they
put out.
That's the other one.
Yes, yeah, that you know, notuntil the end, but then they
didn't shy away from it either.
When you know the boy is likeidentified, that his crush is
another boy and like embracedand it's celebrated.
(06:48):
But we also get to see, like,the awkward shyness of like oh,
I like you, but I don't know.
Right, it was really cute andit was done in a in a kind way,
Right, it wasn't.
Like.
You know, people who areuncomfortable with this material
feel like it's always pushed intheir face and somehow we are
doing something to them by beingexpressive in our own ways.
(07:11):
But I think that was anotherreally good representation
because it wasn't a main plotpoint but it also wasn't shied
away from.
Jessica (07:20):
Right, which actually makes it even more normal.
It doesn't have to be a hugefocal right.
You don't have to live yoursexual orientation or your
gender identity or any of that.
That doesn't have to be likethe constant focus of your life,
but just to have it be part oflife and that's enough.
Liliana (07:35):
Yeah, so the the idea of seeing myself, seeing a
mirror right, so that I can beokay when I see myself, when I
express myself right, and that'swhat matters.
That's what we mean byrepresentation.
And then, what kind of languageCan you give me ideas?
When we go to trainings we'relooking for, can I get ideas for
(07:56):
what kind of language?
What is the things that I haveto be aware of?
What are the things right?
Go ahead Well, so, and that's,that's the other piece.
Jessica (08:05):
So it is constantly changing and, depending on where
you go, you're going to getdifferent information.
I mean the human rightscampaign resources versus the
Trevor Project, versus people.
I mean they're just everywhere.
And I think one of the mostimportant factors too is, and
also within the trans community,if somebody makes a mistake and
uses a term or a word that wasnot correct, just and you're
(08:28):
correct, it is, oh, ok, thankyou.
Yeah, now, I know, and movingon, because everybody does, it's
a personal experience foreverybody.
Like, I'm very comfortable withthe term queer, but some people
still find that to be offensive.
So if I'm in a conversation andI throw out queer and
somebody's like, oh, I don'tlike that term, okay, thank you,
what would you like me to useinstead?
(08:48):
Yeah, and moving on.
But you know there's definitelysoji that's becoming more
popular now, which is sexualorientation and gender identity
expression, expression, thankyou see, exactly, expression,
it's it's expression.
Um, you know, like the termtransgender itself means
somebody's moving from one thingto another.
(09:10):
It's's that journey.
So if somebody has actuallycompleted their journey and they
were one gender that had, youknow, the assigned sex at birth,
and they are now another,they're not necessarily a trans,
man or female, they are a manor a female, right?
Yes.
(09:30):
So it's little pieces like thatthat we're going to go into a
little bit more saying you knowwhat is your preferred pronoun?
It's actually like no, justwhat's your pronoun?
Liliana (09:40):
Yeah, yeah, and I love because you just highlighted
something that we don't talkabout in play therapy, which is
generationally.
We either accept or rejectwords.
Yes, and because we work withmultiple generations, we have to
be aware of the difference andacceptance of each one and then
honor them the same way.
Jessica (09:59):
Honor pronouns beautiful um, when I was looking
up stuff, you know, for theresearch, for this, for this um
presentation, um, when I, youknow, I was born in the late 70s
.
So, um, I don't know if youguys and this is going to be a
little offensive but the termyou know you're a queer bait was
horribly offensive.
Maria (10:16):
Yeah, right, that's no, no, no no yeah, now that's a
term to show.
Jessica (10:21):
Like you know, a show is indicating that there might
be a gay relationship, butthey're not covertly saying it
and it's changed the definition.
Yeah, so that was really coolfor me because I, you know, I'd
love to love to have morepositive language than negative.
But that's an example and,again, like the term queer, that
used to be very it was a slangterm you know, but depending on
(10:41):
the individual.
Now it's all changing.
So, yes, generations make adifference too, and the language
is always changing.
And you, if you can't keep up,that's okay.
But if you're corrected, itdoesn't mean like you're a
terrible person or you shouldnever use any pronoun or
anything, just okay.
Thank you for correcting me.
How would you like me to referor what term would you like me
(11:01):
to use?
Maria (11:01):
and moving on, I would say most often, the community
would rather you attempt to doit, make a mistake, attempt to
do it, make a mistake, than tonot do it at all or feel like
you have to walk on eggshells.
You know, I think that that'sanother piece is like the
community doesn't expect us toget it right.
They also are aware that it'schanging and it's fluid and you
(11:26):
know, but I think it's theattempt and the human kind
connection behind what you'reattempting to do.
Jessica (11:33):
Absolutely.
Yeah, you nailed it, maria.
It's the intent.
You're not trying to harmsomebody, you're learning and
that's okay.
I mean, I've always heard likenon-binary or gender neutral or
like different terms, and now ina lot of my research I'm seeing
gender expansive.
(11:54):
I mean you just there's, like Isaid, the terminology is
everywhere and no, I'm nevertrying to offend anybody.
And again, you know, person Amight be fine with one term, but
person B might not.
So there's also some personalcomforts with that and we just
you know, two things that cameto mind.
Liliana (12:10):
One is that anytime the return is out, it's outdated.
Yes, yes.
So I'm very aware of that andhopefully all of your listeners
are becoming aware.
Or, if this is new, write itdown.
By the time that you're reading, it more than likely is
outdated.
You cannot keep up.
Jessica (12:29):
Yes, I was actually trying to make a compiled list
of terms and I gave up.
I mean, that could have takenme a year and then it would,
like you said, be outdated.
So instead I have resources andlinks to ever changing
definitions online that you cankeep up with.
Liliana (12:43):
Yeah, and then, too, if someone offers you or corrects
you and you go into, likedefense defenses because you
want to make it right this isnot about fucking you, no, so
get off your horse.
You offer that and you correctthat.
(13:05):
From that moment on, you don'tget offended because someone
corrected you.
Jessica (13:10):
Absolutely.
And then go home and figure outwhy you got offended, that
somebody corrected you aboutthem and their life and who they
are.
Maria (13:17):
Take that to your therapist.
Yeah, I love that, but trulyand Jessica, why this topic?
I mean, I know you and I knowwe had a discussion and you had
this idea immediately after lastyear's Disney bound conference,
so why this topic?
Jessica (13:39):
That's cute that you mentioned that.
Okay, so I back in the 90s, Iidentified as bisexual.
In 2020s I realized I'mpansexual because I've had
relationships with people whowere in transition so trans
people, whatever.
So I have lived my life in thiscommunity and my daughter is
figuring out who she is and shelast year what.
(14:03):
We were at Disney last year, soshe was 10 last year and we
were, you know, in pin tradinglife at this conference, having
a great time, and Layla saw apride pin and got so excited and
I watched my daughter connectand feel supported and seen at
Disney and I went there.
(14:24):
It is, and she's obviously notthe only one who needs it.
And, yes, I know Disney'srelationship with the queer
community has been up and down,but still in her excitement and
wanting to get all the pridepins and feeling like she was
safe and okay, and so I startedthinking about that and just,
yeah, when we came back, I'mlike there we go.
(15:02):
And then you know, electionshappened, right, yeah,
absolutely, absolutely, whateverin different states.
Like our friends, our families,our children, our sisters or
brothers or mothers or fathers,they need support, they need
connection and the more that wecan provide that sense of safety
gosh, especially when peopleare younger.
(15:23):
This the it's just.
Yeah, we need to support ourcommunity because people are
people are dying.
Liliana (15:28):
I was gonna say like I was gonna start with the I must
think they came out last but Iwas like, okay, I'm not going to
go into politics, but, like God, everyone out there, like know
that I'm holding myself.
That's really, really hard.
Maria (15:42):
It makes a difference.
The politics and the policiesthat are in play have direct
impact on the clients that we'reseeing and the clinicians
trying to do the work.
If you identify and you are aclinician and you are feeling
scared and unsafe, you're not ina place to then help your
clients, right.
(16:02):
So it's the trickle down effect.
Absolutely.
This is all.
This impacts everybody, even ifyou don't identify as part of
this community.
And so I love, I love, jessica,that you I mean you were the
voice of feminist theory andplay therapy last year You're
the voice for I call them thealphabet mafia community stand
(16:32):
on principle and are willing tohave these conversations,
because not everybody is, I mean, speaking of feminist theory
Lilliana talks about like it hadbeen ages since she had heard
anyone talk about feministtheory and never having someone
connect that to play and that'sso important.
Jessica (16:50):
It really is and you know one of the stats I found
from the Trevor Project, whicheverybody can look up online.
I will read it because I don'twant to be incorrect.
So nearly one in three LGBTQyouth people said their mental
health was poor.
Most of the time are always dueto anti-LGBTQ policies and
legislation, and nearly two inthree young people said hearing
(17:10):
about potential state lawsbanning the discussion of LGBTQ
in the schools made their mentalhealth a lot worse.
So that's the other thingPeople.
They're plugged in Right andknow what's going on and they
have to Absolutely, and it'ssurvivorship Absolutely.
And 41% of queer youth seriouslyconsidered suicide back in 2022
(17:33):
at the last risk youth behaviorsurvey that was done and so
high and 32 attempted, 32percent.
Yeah, and I know that's darkand heavy, but I'm like that's
that's the bottom line.
Right, if you and there's otherfactors that contribute to it,
which we go into in thepresentation but if you're not
supported, if you are not notseen, if you are not safe,
(17:57):
you're at risk of saying thatthis world doesn't want me and I
am better off not in it.
Yeah, and that's not acceptable.
We need to do better.
Liliana (18:07):
No, so we definitely all of you, please, please,
please, go and attend.
We will have Jessica back sothat we can talk more about this
topic, because we need all ofthe therapists to be informed.
We need to give them tools forwhat's coming for the next four
years and not that it has to bethe next four years, it's always
(18:30):
an issue but because of all thelaws, because of the philosophy
that we're going into, we needto be prepared for the amount of
anxiety, and just that iscoming our way.
Jessica (18:44):
Yes, yes, absolutely.
We need to be able to supportand take care of everyone during
this period of uncertainty andfear.
A lot of people are living indaily fear all the time.
Liliana (18:57):
Yeah, yeah, thank you.
Thank you for talking aboutthis topic.
Thank you for sharing about youand your daughter.
Maria (19:06):
Who I adore, by the way.
I'm just going to go on recordso when she gets mad at me next
time I'm like everyone knows Ilove you, so it's fine.
And she's letting me use thepicture of her in the
presentation at Pride lookingfabulous with her little pride
flag on.
I really appreciate this.
Jessica, you're the lastspeaker we've gotten to chat
(19:27):
with and I know you know I knowthis idea of going to a
conference at Disneyland seemsreally far fetched for those
that did not drink the Kool-Aidwith us.
And I do want to highlight thatthese sessions you know we've
talked to all the speakers theseare important sessions to
attend.
These are important lectures andlearning opportunities, in
(19:50):
addition to being able to playand integrate into the parks, to
being able to play andintegrate into the parks we this
is not, this is not a blow-offum, there is so much heavy
learning that we then integrateby being able to go move our
bodies, trade our pins, wear ourears, our characters and foster
(20:12):
a community of other people oflike.
This was meaningful, and it wasmeaningful that you were also
there.
Jessica (20:18):
Yeah, yes absolutely, maria, and that's part of the
beauty of this conference.
It's, yes, it's fun and play,but there's also deep, important
learning that takes place withall of the presentations and
presenters.
Liliana (20:32):
Yeah, so don't miss out .
Please go register Maria.
Name the website so thateveryone is listening where they
can go and register.
Yeah, so don't miss out.
Please go register Maria.
Name the website so thateveryone is listening where they
can go and register.
Maria (20:40):
Sure, and we'll drop it in the text as well, but it's
anewhopeacademyorg slash play atDisneyland.
Liliana (20:50):
Woo-hoo, hello.
Thank you, jamie.
And what?
Jessica (20:54):
better way to deal with the frustrations of the world
than screaming your brains outon an awesome fun ride.
Maria (20:59):
Yeah, if you need, yeah.
And if you're worried, we havelots of people who will hold
your hand for the guardian'sdrop or the Incredicoaster.
You don't have to be afraid.
Liliana (21:09):
You can be afraid and still do it and you will lose
your voice because you will bescreaming a lot.
Jessica (21:14):
This is true.
I might not have a voice topresent with because I believe
I'm on the last day, but I'll domy darndest.
Liliana (21:19):
I'll drink a lot of tea .
You're going to have a sexyvoice at the end.
There you go, let's reframe itright now.
So thank you, jessica, forbeing here.
Listeners, please go registerand then we will have Jessica to
come back and talk more aboutthis.
welcome back listeners for an extra special bonus
episode of a hero's welcomepodcast.
I am your co-host, maria laquerdiego, and I'm here with my
ever playful co-host liliana.
Liliana (00:14):
Uh, excuse me, princess liliana, we started this week
that's right, I forgot princessliliana.
Maria (00:22):
Thank you thank you.
Liliana (00:24):
And we are here with the amazing Jessica.
But, jessica, how do you wantto introduce yourself to all our
listeners?
Uh, yeah, hi, I'm Jessicaexcuse me, princess, do you want
to take advantage of this?
Jessica (00:38):
no, I don't think princess Jessica needs to happen
.
I think the world should bespared a princess Jessica.
If anything, I'd be more on theevil side, maybe, but yes, I am
Jessica Cawthorn.
Maria (00:49):
And welcome back.
Welcome back, this is yourthird stop by.
For us, it's exciting to beback.
Liliana (00:54):
Thanks for having me, guys.
Thank you and Maria.
Why do you say that we're here?
Why do you say that we'repromoting?
Maria (01:00):
Excuse me, yeah, so Jessica was a speaker last year
for play therapy disney boundand has so graciously returned
this year to continue being aspeaker for us.
So play therapy disney bound ismy week-long conference um,
addressing all things playtherapy in the magic of
(01:22):
Disneyland, where we integratelearning and playing so that we
both are taking care ofourselves and furthering our
skills for our clinicians.
Liliana (01:34):
So, for anyone who has not registered yet, we have I
think you said four spots, four,that's it.
So people listen, you have togo.
I had the pleasure of takingJessica's training last year and
last year yeah, last year andoh my God, it was so amazing.
(01:58):
I took so many notes.
I keep referencing thattraining Talks about it all the
time.
So please go, jessica, tell uswhat is it that you're going to
be teaching this year?
Jessica (02:10):
Okay, so this year the workshop that I'm doing is Play
Therapy with the LGBTQ pluscommunity connection through
Disney and pop culture inclusionthat's the title and pretty
much what we're looking at isDisney and other pop cultures
have been starting to make moreinclusion of the queer community
(02:32):
and I'm using queer as a broad,loving term to include
everybody under that umbrella.
And people need to be seen.
They need representation ofthemselves in the world as
they're figuring out who theyare and feel understood.
And the queer community is athighest risk for a lot of mental
health and suicidality andother struggles.
(02:53):
And if we can see ourselves onthe screen or see somebody that
might be struggling withsomething that we're struggling
with out there in the world, wedon't feel so alone, especially
because that coming out processcan be very isolating, lonely
and take some time.
So we're looking at ways toperhaps have more visibility and
(03:14):
connection that people can see,to increase that comfort, so
they're able to move towardscoming out safely and feel that
they're not so alone throughDisney and other pop culture.
Liliana (03:27):
Yeah, love it, love it right, especially for play
therapists who, with goodintentions, want to go and do
this work, and we need trainingin regards to that safety
component that you justmentioned.
Their story and theirrepresentation Beautiful, yes,
yeah.
Maria (03:44):
And it's been so nice to see lately, you know, in the
last couple of years, Disneybeing such a beacon of
progression and acceptance andinclusivity, because we we don't
see that everywhere else forfor big media components, you
know I mean we've talked before.
I'm a Disney adult, I'm a hugenerd.
(04:06):
Uh, these fandoms are importantto me and there are lots of
large fandoms that arestruggling now because the
people behind those fandoms arenot safe people, they're not
allies, they're very harmful.
So to have a big player likedisney stand ground and put out
(04:26):
shows and cartoons that havequeer representation is so
impactful.
Jessica (04:33):
It really is and you know the relationship hasn't
always been smooth and some ofmy research I learned I wasn't
familiar with the show.
Maybe you ladies are the OwlHouse.
It's on Disney Plus and it'sextremely large within the
community.
I mean there was overt same-sexcouples, parents, lead figures
that were gay.
I mean it was really very, veryinclusive and it made it three
(04:55):
seasons, I believe it was,before it ended up not going the
rest of the way.
But Disney did allow for thatto start and though it got a
little, I think maybe strongerthan they they had anticipated
and that was part of thepullback it was still there and
it's still up.
Nothing's been pulled.
Um, you know there's some debateabout, you know, the first
same-sex kiss in the Star Warsseries and live action ever to
(05:17):
happen and they thought it wasgoing to be with main characters
and it was like two sidecharacters.
As it panned by, it was stillthere and let me tell you, my
daughter and I were cheeringwhen we saw that.
Um.
But yeah, I mean it takesvarious forms and stuff and I've
also been finding through myresearch there's a lot of um,
you know, fandom, where peopleare maybe seeing same-sex
(05:40):
coupling or um relationships, oridentifying somebody as being
gay or non-binary or you knowsomewhere on that spectrum that
maybe not, but there's enoughthere that it could be, and that
desire again to see thatrepresentation is so strong that
it's found regardless.
And so, even if Disney isn'tovertly being like, yes, this is
(06:03):
a lesbian character or yes,this person is non-binary,
people are identifying that ontheir own and still finding
comfort in that, which isbeautiful, right, narrate the
story in a way that makes sensefor you.
And how can we support that astherapists in our playroom?
How can we incorporate that andhave again representation of
pop culture, figures or symbolsor whatever that somebody will
(06:26):
see and be like?
Maria (06:27):
oh, I know what that means.
That means they get it.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean it comes to mind thecartoon Strange World that they
put out.
That's the other one.
Yes, yeah, that you know, notuntil the end, but then they
didn't shy away from it either.
When you know the boy is likeidentified, that his crush is
another boy and like embracedand it's celebrated.
(06:48):
But we also get to see, like,the awkward shyness of like oh,
I like you, but I don't know.
Right, it was really cute andit was done in a in a kind way,
Right, it wasn't.
Like.
You know, people who areuncomfortable with this material
feel like it's always pushed intheir face and somehow we are
doing something to them by beingexpressive in our own ways.
(07:11):
But I think that was anotherreally good representation
because it wasn't a main plotpoint but it also wasn't shied
away from.
Jessica (07:20):
Right, which actually makes it even more normal.
It doesn't have to be a hugefocal right.
You don't have to live yoursexual orientation or your
gender identity or any of that.
That doesn't have to be likethe constant focus of your life,
but just to have it be part oflife and that's enough.
Liliana (07:35):
Yeah, so the the idea of seeing myself, seeing a
mirror right, so that I can beokay when I see myself, when I
express myself right, and that'swhat matters.
That's what we mean byrepresentation.
And then, what kind of languageCan you give me ideas?
When we go to trainings we'relooking for, can I get ideas for
(07:56):
what kind of language?
What is the things that I haveto be aware of?
What are the things right?
Go ahead Well, so, and that's,that's the other piece.
Jessica (08:05):
So it is constantly changing and, depending on where
you go, you're going to getdifferent information.
I mean the human rightscampaign resources versus the
Trevor Project, versus people.
I mean they're just everywhere.
And I think one of the mostimportant factors too is, and
also within the trans community,if somebody makes a mistake and
uses a term or a word that wasnot correct, just and you're
(08:28):
correct, it is, oh, ok, thankyou.
Yeah, now, I know, and movingon, because everybody does, it's
a personal experience foreverybody.
Like, I'm very comfortable withthe term queer, but some people
still find that to be offensive.
So if I'm in a conversation andI throw out queer and
somebody's like, oh, I don'tlike that term, okay, thank you,
what would you like me to useinstead?
(08:48):
Yeah, and moving on.
But you know there's definitelysoji that's becoming more
popular now, which is sexualorientation and gender identity
expression, expression, thankyou see, exactly, expression,
it's it's expression.
Um, you know, like the termtransgender itself means
somebody's moving from one thingto another.
(09:10):
It's's that journey.
So if somebody has actuallycompleted their journey and they
were one gender that had, youknow, the assigned sex at birth,
and they are now another,they're not necessarily a trans,
man or female, they are a manor a female, right?
Yes.
(09:30):
So it's little pieces like thatthat we're going to go into a
little bit more saying you knowwhat is your preferred pronoun?
It's actually like no, justwhat's your pronoun?
Liliana (09:40):
Yeah, yeah, and I love because you just highlighted
something that we don't talkabout in play therapy, which is
generationally.
We either accept or rejectwords.
Yes, and because we work withmultiple generations, we have to
be aware of the difference andacceptance of each one and then
honor them the same way.
Jessica (09:59):
Honor pronouns beautiful um, when I was looking
up stuff, you know, for theresearch, for this, for this um
presentation, um, when I, youknow, I was born in the late 70s
.
So, um, I don't know if youguys and this is going to be a
little offensive but the termyou know you're a queer bait was
horribly offensive.
Maria (10:16):
Yeah, right, that's no, no, no no yeah, now that's a
term to show.
Jessica (10:21):
Like you know, a show is indicating that there might
be a gay relationship, butthey're not covertly saying it
and it's changed the definition.
Yeah, so that was really coolfor me because I, you know, I'd
love to love to have morepositive language than negative.
But that's an example and,again, like the term queer, that
used to be very it was a slangterm you know, but depending on
(10:41):
the individual.
Now it's all changing.
So, yes, generations make adifference too, and the language
is always changing.
And you, if you can't keep up,that's okay.
But if you're corrected, itdoesn't mean like you're a
terrible person or you shouldnever use any pronoun or
anything, just okay.
Thank you for correcting me.
How would you like me to referor what term would you like me
(11:01):
to use?
Maria (11:01):
and moving on, I would say most often, the community
would rather you attempt to doit, make a mistake, attempt to
do it, make a mistake, than tonot do it at all or feel like
you have to walk on eggshells.
You know, I think that that'sanother piece is like the
community doesn't expect us toget it right.
They also are aware that it'schanging and it's fluid and you
(11:26):
know, but I think it's theattempt and the human kind
connection behind what you'reattempting to do.
Jessica (11:33):
Absolutely.
Yeah, you nailed it, maria.
It's the intent.
You're not trying to harmsomebody, you're learning and
that's okay.
I mean, I've always heard likenon-binary or gender neutral or
like different terms, and now ina lot of my research I'm seeing
gender expansive.
(11:54):
I mean you just there's, like Isaid, the terminology is
everywhere and no, I'm nevertrying to offend anybody.
And again, you know, person Amight be fine with one term, but
person B might not.
So there's also some personalcomforts with that and we just
you know, two things that cameto mind.
Liliana (12:10):
One is that anytime the return is out, it's outdated.
Yes, yes.
So I'm very aware of that andhopefully all of your listeners
are becoming aware.
Or, if this is new, write itdown.
By the time that you're reading, it more than likely is
outdated.
You cannot keep up.
Jessica (12:29):
Yes, I was actually trying to make a compiled list
of terms and I gave up.
I mean, that could have takenme a year and then it would,
like you said, be outdated.
So instead I have resources andlinks to ever changing
definitions online that you cankeep up with.
Liliana (12:43):
Yeah, and then, too, if someone offers you or corrects
you and you go into, likedefense defenses because you
want to make it right this isnot about fucking you, no, so
get off your horse.
You offer that and you correctthat.
(13:05):
From that moment on, you don'tget offended because someone
corrected you.
Jessica (13:10):
Absolutely.
And then go home and figure outwhy you got offended, that
somebody corrected you aboutthem and their life and who they
are.
Maria (13:17):
Take that to your therapist.
Yeah, I love that, but trulyand Jessica, why this topic?
I mean, I know you and I knowwe had a discussion and you had
this idea immediately after lastyear's Disney bound conference,
so why this topic?
Jessica (13:39):
That's cute that you mentioned that.
Okay, so I back in the 90s, Iidentified as bisexual.
In 2020s I realized I'mpansexual because I've had
relationships with people whowere in transition so trans
people, whatever.
So I have lived my life in thiscommunity and my daughter is
figuring out who she is and shelast year what.
(14:03):
We were at Disney last year, soshe was 10 last year and we
were, you know, in pin tradinglife at this conference, having
a great time, and Layla saw apride pin and got so excited and
I watched my daughter connectand feel supported and seen at
Disney and I went there.
(14:24):
It is, and she's obviously notthe only one who needs it.
And, yes, I know Disney'srelationship with the queer
community has been up and down,but still in her excitement and
wanting to get all the pridepins and feeling like she was
safe and okay, and so I startedthinking about that and just,
yeah, when we came back, I'mlike there we go.
(15:02):
And then you know, electionshappened, right, yeah,
absolutely, absolutely, whateverin different states.
Like our friends, our families,our children, our sisters or
brothers or mothers or fathers,they need support, they need
connection and the more that wecan provide that sense of safety
gosh, especially when peopleare younger.
(15:23):
This the it's just.
Yeah, we need to support ourcommunity because people are
people are dying.
Liliana (15:28):
I was gonna say like I was gonna start with the I must
think they came out last but Iwas like, okay, I'm not going to
go into politics, but, like God, everyone out there, like know
that I'm holding myself.
That's really, really hard.
Maria (15:42):
It makes a difference.
The politics and the policiesthat are in play have direct
impact on the clients that we'reseeing and the clinicians
trying to do the work.
If you identify and you are aclinician and you are feeling
scared and unsafe, you're not ina place to then help your
clients, right.
(16:02):
So it's the trickle down effect.
Absolutely.
This is all.
This impacts everybody, even ifyou don't identify as part of
this community.
And so I love, I love, jessica,that you I mean you were the
voice of feminist theory andplay therapy last year You're
the voice for I call them thealphabet mafia community stand
(16:32):
on principle and are willing tohave these conversations,
because not everybody is, I mean, speaking of feminist theory
Lilliana talks about like it hadbeen ages since she had heard
anyone talk about feministtheory and never having someone
connect that to play and that'sso important.
Jessica (16:50):
It really is and you know one of the stats I found
from the Trevor Project, whicheverybody can look up online.
I will read it because I don'twant to be incorrect.
So nearly one in three LGBTQyouth people said their mental
health was poor.
Most of the time are always dueto anti-LGBTQ policies and
legislation, and nearly two inthree young people said hearing
(17:10):
about potential state lawsbanning the discussion of LGBTQ
in the schools made their mentalhealth a lot worse.
So that's the other thingPeople.
They're plugged in Right andknow what's going on and they
have to Absolutely, and it'ssurvivorship Absolutely.
And 41% of queer youth seriouslyconsidered suicide back in 2022
(17:33):
at the last risk youth behaviorsurvey that was done and so
high and 32 attempted, 32percent.
Yeah, and I know that's darkand heavy, but I'm like that's
that's the bottom line.
Right, if you and there's otherfactors that contribute to it,
which we go into in thepresentation but if you're not
supported, if you are not notseen, if you are not safe,
(17:57):
you're at risk of saying thatthis world doesn't want me and I
am better off not in it.
Yeah, and that's not acceptable.
We need to do better.
Liliana (18:07):
No, so we definitely all of you, please, please,
please, go and attend.
We will have Jessica back sothat we can talk more about this
topic, because we need all ofthe therapists to be informed.
We need to give them tools forwhat's coming for the next four
years and not that it has to bethe next four years, it's always
(18:30):
an issue but because of all thelaws, because of the philosophy
that we're going into, we needto be prepared for the amount of
anxiety, and just that iscoming our way.
Jessica (18:44):
Yes, yes, absolutely.
We need to be able to supportand take care of everyone during
this period of uncertainty andfear.
A lot of people are living indaily fear all the time.
Liliana (18:57):
Yeah, yeah, thank you.
Thank you for talking aboutthis topic.
Thank you for sharing about youand your daughter.
Maria (19:06):
Who I adore, by the way.
I'm just going to go on recordso when she gets mad at me next
time I'm like everyone knows Ilove you, so it's fine.
And she's letting me use thepicture of her in the
presentation at Pride lookingfabulous with her little pride
flag on.
I really appreciate this.
Jessica, you're the lastspeaker we've gotten to chat
(19:27):
with and I know you know I knowthis idea of going to a
conference at Disneyland seemsreally far fetched for those
that did not drink the Kool-Aidwith us.
And I do want to highlight thatthese sessions you know we've
talked to all the speakers theseare important sessions to
attend.
These are important lectures andlearning opportunities, in
(19:50):
addition to being able to playand integrate into the parks, to
being able to play andintegrate into the parks we this
is not, this is not a blow-offum, there is so much heavy
learning that we then integrateby being able to go move our
bodies, trade our pins, wear ourears, our characters and foster
(20:12):
a community of other people oflike.
This was meaningful, and it wasmeaningful that you were also
there.
Jessica (20:18):
Yeah, yes absolutely, maria, and that's part of the
beauty of this conference.
It's, yes, it's fun and play,but there's also deep, important
learning that takes place withall of the presentations and
presenters.
Liliana (20:32):
Yeah, so don't miss out .
Please go register Maria.
Name the website so thateveryone is listening where they
can go and register.
Yeah, so don't miss out.
Please go register Maria.
Name the website so thateveryone is listening where they
can go and register.
Maria (20:40):
Sure, and we'll drop it in the text as well, but it's
anewhopeacademyorg slash play atDisneyland.
Liliana (20:50):
Woo-hoo, hello.
Thank you, jamie.
And what?
Jessica (20:54):
better way to deal with the frustrations of the world
than screaming your brains outon an awesome fun ride.
Maria (20:59):
Yeah, if you need, yeah.
And if you're worried, we havelots of people who will hold
your hand for the guardian'sdrop or the Incredicoaster.
You don't have to be afraid.
Liliana (21:09):
You can be afraid and still do it and you will lose
your voice because you will bescreaming a lot.
Jessica (21:14):
This is true.
I might not have a voice topresent with because I believe
I'm on the last day, but I'll domy darndest.
Liliana (21:19):
I'll drink a lot of tea .
You're going to have a sexyvoice at the end.
There you go, let's reframe itright now.
So thank you, jessica, forbeing here.
Listeners, please go registerand then we will have Jessica to
come back and talk more aboutthis.
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