February 13, 2025 • 33 mins
What if embracing your own imperfections could not only enhance your life but also positively impact those around you? Join us for an enlightening conversation with Rose Lapierre as we unravel the art of mindful self-compassion. Inspired by thought leaders like Dr. Kristin Neff and the Dalai Lama, Rose shares her transformative journey, shedding light on how recognizing our shared human struggles can cultivate compassion for oneself. As therapists, mothers, and entrepreneurs, we navigate the intricate dance between professional duties and personal wellbeing, underscoring the vital role of mutual support in our quest for authenticity and self-kindness.
Together, we explore practical techniques for nurturing self-compassion in everyday life, from tuning into bodily needs to employing comforting gestures and creative tools like sand trays. Our discussion highlights the unique pressures faced by female-presenting professionals and the liberating effect of self-kindness in combating self-criticism. We also delve into the barriers marginalized communities encounter in accessing self-compassion, advocating for mindfulness and self-kindness education from a young age. With relatable analogies and sensory strategies, we offer insights for mental health professionals, educators, and parents to model these practices, fostering a ripple effect that extends compassion to their clients and children.
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Episode Transcript
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Maria Diego (00:03):
Welcome listeners.
Thank you for joining us ontoday's episode of a Heroes
Welcome podcast.
I am your co-host, maria LaCarDiego, and I'm here with my
other co-host.
Liliana Baylon (00:14):
That's me, Liliana Baylon, and we're here
with a special guest.
We know Rose for years, sowe're so glad that she finally
said yes to us.
Rose, how do you formally wantto introduce yourself to our
listeners?
Rose LaPiere (00:30):
So I'm Rose Lapierre and I am from New
Jersey.
I see people in privatepractice now mostly and do
consultation and teach.
I'm also a mom that part isreally important to me of two
boys.
Liliana Baylon (00:48):
I was like, yeah , that's really important to me.
I was like wait, who?
Two boys?
Yes, that's what we have incommon.
I also am a mom of the two boys.
Thank you for being here.
Tell us, Rose, what is it thatwe're going to be talking about
today?
Rose LaPiere (01:01):
So today we're going to be talking about
mindfulness, self-compassiontoday.
So today we're going to betalking about mindfulness,
self-compassion, and yeah, it'sa big, big topic.
The lens of just to where I'velearned from is the last I'd say
, like maybe eight years or so,is Dr Kristen Neff.
So some of what I'll bereferencing is related to her
(01:23):
work.
But, of course, mindfulness andself-compassion has been around
for thousands of years throughBuddhist teachings and just to
like acknowledge the history,yeah, Cool.
Liliana Baylon (01:35):
So tell us, what is it that we as therapists all
of us who are listening suck atwhen it comes to
self-compassion?
Rose LaPiere (01:46):
us for listening suck at when it comes to
self-compassion.
So I think what I have found inmy work for me, juggling the
role of being a business ownerand a mom of two boys and I'll
probably share some pieces ofthings in my life which I have
permission to do from my kidsand it can be really hard to
(02:12):
manage taking care of clientsand being present and connected
and showing up in other people'sgrief and sadness and
challenges when you also arestruggling in your own life or
you have your own challenges athome.
So you know, probably about 20years ago I read this book, the
(02:36):
Art of Happiness, and there isit's from the Dalai Lama and the
other author is Howard Cutler,right, so this is that book has
been around for a really longtime and in one of the chapters
that I really connected with, ittalked about I guess it was
about suffering and the commonhumanity in suffering and the
(03:02):
lens of that was just I reallybecame curious about because
there was something aboutreading and connecting with
other people's suffering and thekindness of being able to offer
myself that not being alonefelt very peaceful to me and it
was something I didn't reallyunderstand in terms of
(03:22):
mindfulness, self-compassion,but then, as I learned that it
made sense and so I have accessto that and use that, whether
like I'm in a moment with mykids where something is really
hard, or even in a session withclients where it allows me to be
kind to myself, to connect tome so that I can show up for the
(03:43):
person that I'm with me so thatI can show up for the person
that I'm with.
Liliana Baylon (03:48):
I love that, Right.
So right before by the way,right before we started
recording, we were having thisconversation which I thought,
man, I wish we would haverecorded Because part of it is
we are in a field, just as amental health professions and
other fields can relate to thistoo health professions and other
fields can relate to this toobut where we expect to be
professional and on all the timeand by that I mean like we're
(04:11):
not supposed to.
It's not about us in the room,Right, it shouldn't.
But meaning like, to a degree,you're still human, and I love
when you started, which iswithin the suffering, right,
we're able to connect and notfeel all alone, which is when
our clients feel seen,understood, because we're able
to empathize, either because ofwhat they're sharing with us or
(04:33):
because we have a sharedexperience.
Right.
Yet our profession, depending onthe credential that you have,
they keep asking you not to showup in the room and in that,
whatever you are, whateverstressor you're going through as
a therapist, it's almost likeyou don't have permission to.
And the three of us are mothers, the three of us are therapists
(04:57):
, the three of us are businessowners, and then we have so many
other roles that we play inright, Including reading a book,
that we're struggling right nowin our book club.
There's so many things, therealness.
And even in that we keeptexting like help me connect to
(05:18):
this, Help me like how do we dothis?
But even in that, you know weare practicing.
How can we show up?
How can we do this?
But even in that, you know weare practicing.
How can we show up?
How can we be authentic?
How can we elevate each other?
How can we connect?
And I think even in that,you're showing us Right, that's
exactly what you're doing.
You're showing us how to beable to have self-compassion in
(05:41):
those moments.
Maria Diego (05:43):
Yeah, I love that you're speaking to because it
does it feels alone, right, thework we do is confidential, so
that remains with us, andperhaps the supervisor or
consultant that we are workingwith, but that's stuff we hold
alone.
Being a parent feels veryisolating at times, right, and
like nobody else is goingthrough what I'm going through
(06:04):
isolating at times, right, andlike nobody else is going
through what I'm going through.
Being a business owner, youknow you can feel very alone.
Being a supervisor, you canfeel very alone and it does come
with.
I think I've said this probablya half dozen times in the last
week and a half that justbecause we're therapists, just
because we're play therapists,doesn't mean we're not human and
we're going to have momentswhere we're not kind to
(06:27):
ourselves, where we're not thebest parent that shows up, we're
not the best boss that shows up, that.
But I think this idea ofmindful self compassion is
(06:48):
something that we all need tokind of pick up and run with
because it'll help in thosemoments.
Rose LaPiere (06:55):
Yeah, yes, I'm thinking about this moment.
You know like I work a lot withparents who have kids with
really challenging behaviors forlots of reasons and or
vulnerable nervous systems right, another way to say it and my
son has a vulnerable nervoussystem and lots of challenging
behaviors in growing him up he'san adult now, but I'd have
(07:18):
moments where I'm carrying himout or where he's had some
medical experiences where thingswere just really hard and I
would sit in my car I canremember, you know, going to
work moments of like how, whatam I doing?
How am I doing this?
Right?
So I would really need tonotice this is the mindfulness
(07:40):
part that I am having a hardtime right now.
Right, being able to be in themoment to notice what's
happening for me.
This is really hard.
And then noticing what would Isay to myself and there were
many times it would be very hardfor me to come up with
something nice to say to myself,right?
So I would think like, okay,what would one of my really good
(08:03):
friends say to me?
What would my sister say to me?
She would often have a verylike encouraging and kind voice.
What would she tell me about myparenting in that moment so I
can come with, like you're doingthe best you can, this is maybe
really hard and then offermyself, like I put my hand on my
(08:24):
heart or maybe put my handstogether to feel the warmth of
them and acknowledge that andsay that to myself.
Right, so I have these piecesof knowing, also the common
humanity of, like I'm not alone.
Other other therapists who areparents also have kids with
(08:45):
challenging, vulnerable nervoussystems or have moments that are
hard.
So that's like a place where itcan show up easily for me,
where then it helps me likemaybe feel my sad and then be
able to transition to workingwith a parent who also has a
struggling son, maybe withinlike an hour.
Right, I have to kind of gearup and then become a
(09:08):
professional and also a personlike carry in the human
experience of being a mom whoalso has challenges.
Liliana Baylon (09:17):
Yeah, I think I love everything that you just
said, which is we have a newcohort of therapists right that
we are actually pushing for.
I will not deny my experiences.
I will not deny what I'm goingthrough.
I will not push through.
I will not repress in order toshow up.
(09:38):
Yet I can still show up andconnect with you and be
professional because you arepaying me for this space.
But I'm still here with whatI'm feeling Like I love that.
It's funny.
Yesterday I went to see one ofmy favorite books turn into a
play, which that's a very commonthing to do and as soon as you
(10:00):
said like I will call my sister,I was like I will not call my
sister because she's from thesame family culture with telling
me suck it up, push through, um.
Maria Diego (10:08):
But even in that right.
Liliana Baylon (10:09):
So I was like, oh no, maybe I'll call your
sister.
Um, my sister is great, but I'mvery aware that we come from a
different ethnicity that has adifferent mentality and and part
of our taking care of wasexactly that armor up and then
go through.
There was no space for and youknow, becoming even aware that
(10:33):
when we're working with thoseparents, like, how do we allow
them to borrow our nervoussystem in order for them to have
a different experience of?
How can you haveself-compassion for everything
that you're enduring through theday, all the stressors and
expectations that you have fromsociety, from your family, from
school, and how can we model andhave moments of self-compassion
(11:00):
and mindfulness to be in thepresent moment and what is
happening for you?
Such a beautiful gift thatyou're talking about today.
I love you, alexis, if you'rehearing this, yeah.
Maria Diego (11:16):
I think that's authentic too, though, right
like we all have like, uh, wehope that we all have a slew of
people and we have certainpeople.
We call for certain moments,right like I have friends that
I'll call when I need to hype upno questions asked, right.
And then I'll have otherfriends that I call when I'm
like I need you to really be inthis with me.
And sometimes they're not thesame people and that's okay.
(11:38):
But I'm wondering, rose I meanyou're talking about, you know,
borrowing or being kind toourselves, or borrowing kind
voices to give ourselves thosemessages in the moment.
What else can be reflective ofthis?
You know, mindful self,compassion what else can that
look like?
Rose LaPiere (12:00):
So so many ways really.
You know, even in moments whenI'm in between clients, right?
So, like I'm have my 10 minutesto either go to the bathroom,
get something to eat andtransition in some way.
But often what I'll do is I'llcheck in with myself to notice
(12:22):
what does my body need and howcan I offer it in a
compassionate way, right?
So I am often trying to infusethese words to myself.
That helped me really anchor inlike inner compassion, inner
kindness, thoughtfulness.
Like you know, I will often getmigraines, and so there are
(12:47):
moments where I maybe didn'teven note like my head was
pounding at the beginning andthen maybe I somehow dissociated
from the pain I don't even knowhow that my head was pounding
at the beginning and then maybeI somehow dissociated from the
pain I don't even know how thathappens and then at the end of
the session I'm noticing itcoming back or that it's been
there the whole time, right?
So putting my hands to my head,being able to like, maybe have
a moment of just a massage orsmelling an essential oil,
(13:10):
taking in the sense of this, isa kindness to myself.
I'm not annoyed by my bodysignals, although I'm not
denying that there are thingsthat can be really frustrating.
As you know, I'm also aging andtransitions have happened
within my body, so there arefrustrating things that happen.
(13:30):
But being able to havecompassion for that, this is
hard for me.
We can do this in a sand tray.
You can come to your space andnotice what you're having a hard
time with, create a containerfor that and then create
something compassionate to holdthe things that are hard right.
(13:54):
So there's creative ways toaccess this.
If that is more of someone'slike needing to have it, more
action.
And then there's even justnoticing, like the gesture that
you could do, whether it's likeyour hand on your heart or even
like the hug right, so, likeyour hands, almost like a
(14:16):
butterfly.
When I'm working with clients,I'm helping them access like
what gesture feels good to them.
What gesture actually doestheir inside body say is the
gesture that feels right forthem?
Right, we could do that too,for ourselves, to notice what
feels right for them.
Liliana Baylon (14:31):
Right, we could do that too, for ourselves to
notice what feels right what abeautiful way to even model
consent what feels good for you,right, because that will, uh,
transcend to what does it feel.
Can you notice what does itfeel good for your child,
instead of like what you want todo?
Maria Diego (14:51):
yeah, or even what the have tos right?
I think the other thing I'm I'mpicking up from you, rose, is
like we are all driven by this,you know, idea that we have to,
we have to do it all.
We have to, right, I know, butright before we were talking
about, you know, the generationsbefore us having to, you know,
take on all of the householdlabor and chores and emotional
(15:14):
labor.
Child-rearing was oftenstrictly for the female
presenting partners and you know, heaven forbid, they also
worked a job outside of thehouse and carried all that.
So I think, especially asfemale presenting practitioners
(15:34):
and business owners, I thinkthere's an extra layer of like.
I feel like I have to do it all, and when I don't do it all, I
can be really mean and nasty tomyself and just focus on the
shortcomings.
And what I love hearing is likethat can be shifted and that's
(15:55):
a really good, maybe evenindicator that this is a
practice that needs to be kindof implemented and taken on.
Liliana Baylon (16:04):
Yeah, and even as you're saying that, maria, I
was like, and that even not onlycreates awareness, but it's a
privilege that other generationsdidn't have, only creates
awareness, but it's a privilegethat other generations didn't
have.
We're asking ourselves now isthis something that we want to
do?
What is it that my body needs?
How can I provide this formyself?
We're not asking someone elseto do it for us, like we are
(16:25):
learning to listen to our bodies, and that is a privilege that
other generations including notjust females, but within the
roles of being a therapist, theydidn't have.
This Absolutely.
Rose LaPiere (16:38):
Right.
So one of the things this is agood segue into this part of the
mindfulness, self-compassionthat can happen is that there
can be a moment in the beginning, when people are learning to
connect with themselves, thatgrief shows up when we're
offering compassion to ourselvesAnger, sadness.
(16:58):
I can remember when I was firstreally trying to practice doing
this, there was a moment I hadthis exchange with someone in my
family and that my kids werethere and I just was like I'm
like I need to just offer myselfsome self-compassion and I then
started to hysterically cry.
(17:20):
I think we were like leavingthe house or something, and I
can remember.
Then the kids are like, oh mygosh, mom, are you okay?
And I'm like you know what?
I think I just realized Ihaven't heard that voice to
myself to like that it's okaythat you're having a hard time.
And I said I think I'm justfeeling sad that I haven't been
(17:41):
kind to myself in a long timeand they were just like okay, I
think he was like eight yearsold or something seven years old
.
I think he was like eight yearsold or something seven years
old.
And but for me, having thatexperience, I had read about
hard feelings that can come upwith self-compassion.
But I want to name that topeople who are going to explore
(18:04):
this.
It can be like you know, you'vehad all these, like you've been
dusting a room and cleaning andyou've just shoved everything
under the carpet andself-compassion can be the thing
.
That is like lifting up the rugand the dust is there and we
don't want to like throw it out,throw the rug out and just be
like, oh, and here it's all backagain, because that will flood
(18:25):
in all those hard feelings.
So if you're trying this andhaving a hard time, it's okay,
like it's also really normal.
Just go slower, take a pause,move further away from it and
come back to it in smallersegments or do it with someone.
So I I feel like that is superimportant for people to hold on
(18:50):
to.
There's nothing wrong with youbecause you're feeling sadness
or you hear a critical voicewhen you're offering yourself
self-compassion.
Liliana Baylon (18:58):
And so, right there, right we're talking about
we don't have a template forthis and we're learning as we go
.
So rejecting that template whenit shows up, it's completely
normal.
Feeling everything iscompletely normal.
Not knowing what to do withwhat you're feeling is
completely normal because all ofus are learning a different
(19:22):
template that our parents orother, or a supervisor or other
therapist they didn't share withus because they didn't have
access to this.
Rose LaPiere (19:32):
Yeah.
Liliana Baylon (19:33):
Beautiful.
I mean, the three of us arelike for all our listeners.
We're like so engaged right nowand looking at each other,
we're like yeah.
Rose LaPiere (19:42):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And just you know, also wantingto connect with you, know
people in our society who haveexperienced, you know,
oppression or racism ordiscrimination can also.
There can be bigger challengesin accessing self-compassion
(20:04):
because of all those layers ofthere's something wrong with you
, right, learning that from avery early age.
So there are wonderfulmindfulness, self-compassionate
teachers who are people of colorwho are also teaching this
message and doing it in a waythat really honors and is
(20:28):
respectful and hopeful forpeople, for all people to be
able to have access to this.
Liliana Baylon (20:35):
So let me ask you this, because, as you're
talking, and we're talking aboutolder generations and the new
cohort, and how are we sharingthis with parents which I love
that you're working with parentsso much, and everything that
you share and everything thatyou post, what is the one thing
that you wish our systems,either associations or schools?
Well, yes, yeah, we'll startteaching um early on in regards
(20:59):
to mindfulness, self-compassion.
Rose LaPiere (21:04):
I think like we don't even need to use sometimes
the word of self-compassion.
I think it's just teaching kidsto be able to notice, maybe,
the experience, the feeling thatthey're having, and then can
they have, develop a voice, finda voice, access the teacher's
(21:24):
voice of kindness, right?
What happens with when we workwith kids, especially kids who
have anxiety or experiences youknow, traumatic experiences the
critic or negative voice is theone that's amplified, and kids
never really learn anywhere howto actually amplify the other
(21:47):
voice or what the other voicecould possibly be like.
So I feel like it can be donein very playful, simple ways of
being able to have people diptheir toe in oh, you're taking a
test.
And remember, sometimes whenwe're taking a test, we get that
(22:09):
negative voice that's like youcan't do this, blah, blah, blah.
You know in silliness.
And we can also just, you know,be kind to ourselves and say
like, wow, I studied, I did thebest I could and I'm just going
to be patient with myself, right?
Maria Diego (22:25):
So even just acknowledging that we can have
these contrasting voices, thatwe can decide to amplify one
over the other, yeah, I meanI've been watching Inside Out 2
with my kids and like that'swhat's coming to mind as a play
therapist inside out too with mykids and like that's what's
coming to mind as a playtherapist and you talk about
this right Is using thatlanguage to help children and
(22:46):
adults.
You know, be more mindful ofperhaps, like who's in control
of the console, who's driving umwho?
Who can we acknowledge, like Iget that that mean negative
voice is there and I can chooseto amplify kindness and
compassion right now, in thismoment.
Liliana Baylon (23:11):
Oh, beautiful, I love that, right, because we're
talking to everyone who'slistening, who's in the mental
health field, and we're likelook, there's so many things
that we can do for ourselves andin that, we're modeling to our
clients.
If they're parents, like it'sgoing even beyond that, because
they're then duplicating that athome with their children.
If you are a teacher, like thisis a way for you to connect
(23:34):
with your students and if youare a client, if you are a
student, like this is the waythat you can start practicing
these things from who's in yoursupport system.
As Maria stated, like we havepeople to call for everything
that we want to add fire wood tothe fire.
Like we have the person to dothat that we want to compassion.
(23:55):
We have the person.
Hopefully, you have the personto do that.
Also, is the touch that we needto apply, the butterfly, that
we need to provide pressure inorder to make sure, like to have
the sense that we're here.
You were talking about sensory,like what are the oils that I
enjoy in that moment that theycan bring me to my body and they
(24:15):
can help me?
It's a citrus, it's a lavender.
Like whatever it is for you.
Like whatever it is for you.
You're talking hey, if you area therapist and if you have
access to a sand tray, you cango and create a tray in order to
help you not only become aware,externalize it, to create a
container in that moment.
And then you're teaching usthis beautiful thing of yes, we
(24:37):
have negative cognitions.
Then more than likely, we tookon from systems, either our
family or school, whatever itwas.
But you can also amplify theother voice, you can also
empower and allow space for theother boy and we can say, like
kind of the inside out, we havethese controls and we get to
press buttons to see, like whichone that we want convince
(25:09):
clinicians to to do this.
Maria Diego (25:13):
Not just for them Well, for themselves, because I
think we can get people to buyin to do this for client work
and for the work that we do.
But how do we, how do you getclinicians to buy into this for
themselves?
Because self-care is such abuzzword, it carries such such
heavy and negative connotations.
So what's the trick?
(25:35):
How do we?
How do you?
How do you get them to buy in?
Rose LaPiere (25:38):
Yeah, I think.
So I've taught on this topicbefore and what I call it is not
necessarily mindfulness,self-compassion, and so that is
part of it, because I do feellike one people don't really
understand what that means.
(25:59):
So if I were to label aworkshop that way, it just
doesn't capture what we would do.
So this was actually at theconference where we were
together in Virginia where Itaught the workshop.
So I called it something, butnurturing journaling, called it
(26:23):
something, but nurturingjournaling, collage and
something else a movement, Ithink.
And we did experientials wherewe experienced.
First it was like I scaffoldedthe skill of mindfulness,
self-compassion with noticing,you know, like creating what are
your likes, what are the thingsthat you don't like, notice
(26:47):
what it feels like.
Maybe there's the same thing oneach list.
Right, I can enjoy one thing,and that also can be the thing
that's hard for me.
And then we move to talkingmore specifically about building
up the things inside of us thatfeel good, moving towards the
things that feel good, andgiving people experiences and
(27:11):
noticing their body what doesyour body need right now?
And being able to do thatthrough movement.
So, whether it was a massage totheir temples or, you know,
stretching and having kind wordsas you were doing that instead
of like, oh, I can't believe I'mstiff Right.
Like, oh, my body feels tight.
Like let me just be kind as I'mstretching, or let me be
(27:35):
patient to myself as I'm moving.
So I think it's hard because, Imean, I'm hoping that that's
part of the reason why I wantedto talk about it, and I know
there are other people that alsotalk about it as well.
I'm hoping in this it will getpeople curious enough to maybe
go on Dr Neff's website and do aself-compassion meditation or
(27:56):
read more about how thisbenefits therapists.
In the moment is that when I'mwith a client and I'm noticing
I'm trying to keep my one footin and one foot out, as we say
in EMDR right, I'm in a traumasituation where they're talking
about something and I'm noticingactivation in me.
I can easily put my hand on myheart and that will help my
(28:21):
nervous system go into a breakwhere I can feel more connection
to me and a slowing downwithout me saying much to myself
.
But I can also acknowledge like, oh, this is hard for me and
this is.
I'm staying connected to myclient and I'm noticing
something is happening in meRight and so there's benefit to
(28:44):
that.
So I think therapists maybeeven just hearing me talk about
it from that lens how thatbenefits them to be
self-compassionate, because youcan be more present with your
client and you're not.
You're less likely todissociate, to get activated,
where then your nervous systemis, like you know, bunched up
and really tight and you'releaving at the end of the work
(29:04):
day exhausted.
Liliana Baylon (29:07):
Um, yeah, I love that, that dual awareness,
right, like so beautiful, oh, um, okay.
So, as we're getting, I was likeI we can.
I think it's because my nervoussystem feels so calm with you
right now, I'm like, butobviously for everyone who's
(29:28):
listening, we're gonna put Roseinformation in the podcast.
Please reach out to her, eitherfor consultation, because
you're curious and you want tolearn more, but also so that you
can ask what are the workshopsthat she's doing so that you can
go and attend, or even so thatshe can recommend books, because
she actually has good books torecommend and you should read
(29:53):
them.
And even like in thisconversation, right, that we are
labeling mindfulnessself-compassion, not only as a
therapist, as a business owner,as a parent, as a wife, as a
mother, like we have all theseroles that we carry with us and
we tend to minimize by just whatwe do instead of who we are.
So it's a beautiful way of like.
(30:15):
There's too many things thatRose have mentioned today in
regards to what you can do.
Please reach out to her so thatyou can learn more from her.
Rose LaPiere (30:23):
And what is one thing, rose, that you wanna
close our podcast episode todaywith.
I think I would love people tojust be curious about this
conversation and maybe evennoticing where they can find, if
(30:45):
not a kind voice withinthemselves, where in their life
they can pull from.
What would a friend say to methat would offer me something
kind in this moment that I'mfeeling stressed out?
I think the curiosity can leadpeople to explore more about
this because this topic,although can seem really light
(31:09):
or like self-care-ish, right inthat, it is deeply rooted to the
connection to ourselves um foreveryone who's not.
Liliana Baylon (31:27):
You're going to listen, watching.
I just want you to know thatthe image that I came out as
ross was talking about is almostlike if you're holding me um
right, because you are like fromyour tone of voice and what
you're sharing.
You have this beautifulpresence of um having others not
only feel seen, but beingnurtured, and that is the gift
that not everyone has.
So, thank you you.
Rose LaPiere (31:46):
Yeah, that feels really.
I feel really grateful to knowyou both and to just share these
moments with you and all themoments that we had before, like
just yeah, really grateful tobe with you thank you same, yeah
, and thank you for for sharing,um, your, your wisdom, um, with
(32:08):
our listeners.
Maria Diego (32:09):
I'm hoping, uh, that people do stay curious, um,
and find out where you'representing next and sit in on a
workshop or two, um, I knowthere's some of my favorites to
attend.
So, um, they'll, they'll,they'll, love it and then be
better for it, for sure.
Liliana Baylon (32:27):
So until next time, listeners, thank you and
we'll see you later.
Until then, bye.
Welcome listeners.
Thank you for joining us ontoday's episode of a Heroes
Welcome podcast.
I am your co-host, maria LaCarDiego, and I'm here with my
other co-host.
Liliana Baylon (00:14):
That's me, Liliana Baylon, and we're here
with a special guest.
We know Rose for years, sowe're so glad that she finally
said yes to us.
Rose, how do you formally wantto introduce yourself to our
listeners?
Rose LaPiere (00:30):
So I'm Rose Lapierre and I am from New
Jersey.
I see people in privatepractice now mostly and do
consultation and teach.
I'm also a mom that part isreally important to me of two
boys.
Liliana Baylon (00:48):
I was like, yeah , that's really important to me.
I was like wait, who?
Two boys?
Yes, that's what we have incommon.
I also am a mom of the two boys.
Thank you for being here.
Tell us, Rose, what is it thatwe're going to be talking about
today?
Rose LaPiere (01:01):
So today we're going to be talking about
mindfulness, self-compassiontoday.
So today we're going to betalking about mindfulness,
self-compassion, and yeah, it'sa big, big topic.
The lens of just to where I'velearned from is the last I'd say
, like maybe eight years or so,is Dr Kristen Neff.
So some of what I'll bereferencing is related to her
(01:23):
work.
But, of course, mindfulness andself-compassion has been around
for thousands of years throughBuddhist teachings and just to
like acknowledge the history,yeah, Cool.
Liliana Baylon (01:35):
So tell us, what is it that we as therapists all
of us who are listening suck atwhen it comes to
self-compassion?
Rose LaPiere (01:46):
us for listening suck at when it comes to
self-compassion.
So I think what I have found inmy work for me, juggling the
role of being a business ownerand a mom of two boys and I'll
probably share some pieces ofthings in my life which I have
permission to do from my kidsand it can be really hard to
(02:12):
manage taking care of clientsand being present and connected
and showing up in other people'sgrief and sadness and
challenges when you also arestruggling in your own life or
you have your own challenges athome.
So you know, probably about 20years ago I read this book, the
(02:36):
Art of Happiness, and there isit's from the Dalai Lama and the
other author is Howard Cutler,right, so this is that book has
been around for a really longtime and in one of the chapters
that I really connected with, ittalked about I guess it was
about suffering and the commonhumanity in suffering and the
(03:02):
lens of that was just I reallybecame curious about because
there was something aboutreading and connecting with
other people's suffering and thekindness of being able to offer
myself that not being alonefelt very peaceful to me and it
was something I didn't reallyunderstand in terms of
(03:22):
mindfulness, self-compassion,but then, as I learned that it
made sense and so I have accessto that and use that, whether
like I'm in a moment with mykids where something is really
hard, or even in a session withclients where it allows me to be
kind to myself, to connect tome so that I can show up for the
(03:43):
person that I'm with me so thatI can show up for the person
that I'm with.
Liliana Baylon (03:48):
I love that, Right.
So right before by the way,right before we started
recording, we were having thisconversation which I thought,
man, I wish we would haverecorded Because part of it is
we are in a field, just as amental health professions and
other fields can relate to thistoo health professions and other
fields can relate to this toobut where we expect to be
professional and on all the timeand by that I mean like we're
(04:11):
not supposed to.
It's not about us in the room,Right, it shouldn't.
But meaning like, to a degree,you're still human, and I love
when you started, which iswithin the suffering, right,
we're able to connect and notfeel all alone, which is when
our clients feel seen,understood, because we're able
to empathize, either because ofwhat they're sharing with us or
(04:33):
because we have a sharedexperience.
Right.
Yet our profession, depending onthe credential that you have,
they keep asking you not to showup in the room and in that,
whatever you are, whateverstressor you're going through as
a therapist, it's almost likeyou don't have permission to.
And the three of us are mothers, the three of us are therapists
(04:57):
, the three of us are businessowners, and then we have so many
other roles that we play inright, Including reading a book,
that we're struggling right nowin our book club.
There's so many things, therealness.
And even in that we keeptexting like help me connect to
(05:18):
this, Help me like how do we dothis?
But even in that, you know weare practicing.
How can we show up?
How can we do this?
But even in that, you know weare practicing.
How can we show up?
How can we be authentic?
How can we elevate each other?
How can we connect?
And I think even in that,you're showing us Right, that's
exactly what you're doing.
You're showing us how to beable to have self-compassion in
(05:41):
those moments.
Maria Diego (05:43):
Yeah, I love that you're speaking to because it
does it feels alone, right, thework we do is confidential, so
that remains with us, andperhaps the supervisor or
consultant that we are workingwith, but that's stuff we hold
alone.
Being a parent feels veryisolating at times, right, and
like nobody else is goingthrough what I'm going through
(06:04):
isolating at times, right, andlike nobody else is going
through what I'm going through.
Being a business owner, youknow you can feel very alone.
Being a supervisor, you canfeel very alone and it does come
with.
I think I've said this probablya half dozen times in the last
week and a half that justbecause we're therapists, just
because we're play therapists,doesn't mean we're not human and
we're going to have momentswhere we're not kind to
(06:27):
ourselves, where we're not thebest parent that shows up, we're
not the best boss that shows up, that.
But I think this idea ofmindful self compassion is
(06:48):
something that we all need tokind of pick up and run with
because it'll help in thosemoments.
Rose LaPiere (06:55):
Yeah, yes, I'm thinking about this moment.
You know like I work a lot withparents who have kids with
really challenging behaviors forlots of reasons and or
vulnerable nervous systems right, another way to say it and my
son has a vulnerable nervoussystem and lots of challenging
behaviors in growing him up he'san adult now, but I'd have
(07:18):
moments where I'm carrying himout or where he's had some
medical experiences where thingswere just really hard and I
would sit in my car I canremember, you know, going to
work moments of like how, whatam I doing?
How am I doing this?
Right?
So I would really need tonotice this is the mindfulness
(07:40):
part that I am having a hardtime right now.
Right, being able to be in themoment to notice what's
happening for me.
This is really hard.
And then noticing what would Isay to myself and there were
many times it would be very hardfor me to come up with
something nice to say to myself,right?
So I would think like, okay,what would one of my really good
(08:03):
friends say to me?
What would my sister say to me?
She would often have a verylike encouraging and kind voice.
What would she tell me about myparenting in that moment so I
can come with, like you're doingthe best you can, this is maybe
really hard and then offermyself, like I put my hand on my
(08:24):
heart or maybe put my handstogether to feel the warmth of
them and acknowledge that andsay that to myself.
Right, so I have these piecesof knowing, also the common
humanity of, like I'm not alone.
Other other therapists who areparents also have kids with
(08:45):
challenging, vulnerable nervoussystems or have moments that are
hard.
So that's like a place where itcan show up easily for me,
where then it helps me likemaybe feel my sad and then be
able to transition to workingwith a parent who also has a
struggling son, maybe withinlike an hour.
Right, I have to kind of gearup and then become a
(09:08):
professional and also a personlike carry in the human
experience of being a mom whoalso has challenges.
Liliana Baylon (09:17):
Yeah, I think I love everything that you just
said, which is we have a newcohort of therapists right that
we are actually pushing for.
I will not deny my experiences.
I will not deny what I'm goingthrough.
I will not push through.
I will not repress in order toshow up.
(09:38):
Yet I can still show up andconnect with you and be
professional because you arepaying me for this space.
But I'm still here with whatI'm feeling Like I love that.
It's funny.
Yesterday I went to see one ofmy favorite books turn into a
play, which that's a very commonthing to do and as soon as you
(10:00):
said like I will call my sister,I was like I will not call my
sister because she's from thesame family culture with telling
me suck it up, push through, um.
Maria Diego (10:08):
But even in that right.
Liliana Baylon (10:09):
So I was like, oh no, maybe I'll call your
sister.
Um, my sister is great, but I'mvery aware that we come from a
different ethnicity that has adifferent mentality and and part
of our taking care of wasexactly that armor up and then
go through.
There was no space for and youknow, becoming even aware that
(10:33):
when we're working with thoseparents, like, how do we allow
them to borrow our nervoussystem in order for them to have
a different experience of?
How can you haveself-compassion for everything
that you're enduring through theday, all the stressors and
expectations that you have fromsociety, from your family, from
school, and how can we model andhave moments of self-compassion
(11:00):
and mindfulness to be in thepresent moment and what is
happening for you?
Such a beautiful gift thatyou're talking about today.
I love you, alexis, if you'rehearing this, yeah.
Maria Diego (11:16):
I think that's authentic too, though, right
like we all have like, uh, wehope that we all have a slew of
people and we have certainpeople.
We call for certain moments,right like I have friends that
I'll call when I need to hype upno questions asked, right.
And then I'll have otherfriends that I call when I'm
like I need you to really be inthis with me.
And sometimes they're not thesame people and that's okay.
(11:38):
But I'm wondering, rose I meanyou're talking about, you know,
borrowing or being kind toourselves, or borrowing kind
voices to give ourselves thosemessages in the moment.
What else can be reflective ofthis?
You know, mindful self,compassion what else can that
look like?
Rose LaPiere (12:00):
So so many ways really.
You know, even in moments whenI'm in between clients, right?
So, like I'm have my 10 minutesto either go to the bathroom,
get something to eat andtransition in some way.
But often what I'll do is I'llcheck in with myself to notice
(12:22):
what does my body need and howcan I offer it in a
compassionate way, right?
So I am often trying to infusethese words to myself.
That helped me really anchor inlike inner compassion, inner
kindness, thoughtfulness.
Like you know, I will often getmigraines, and so there are
(12:47):
moments where I maybe didn'teven note like my head was
pounding at the beginning andthen maybe I somehow dissociated
from the pain I don't even knowhow that my head was pounding
at the beginning and then maybeI somehow dissociated from the
pain I don't even know how thathappens and then at the end of
the session I'm noticing itcoming back or that it's been
there the whole time, right?
So putting my hands to my head,being able to like, maybe have
a moment of just a massage orsmelling an essential oil,
(13:10):
taking in the sense of this, isa kindness to myself.
I'm not annoyed by my bodysignals, although I'm not
denying that there are thingsthat can be really frustrating.
As you know, I'm also aging andtransitions have happened
within my body, so there arefrustrating things that happen.
(13:30):
But being able to havecompassion for that, this is
hard for me.
We can do this in a sand tray.
You can come to your space andnotice what you're having a hard
time with, create a containerfor that and then create
something compassionate to holdthe things that are hard right.
(13:54):
So there's creative ways toaccess this.
If that is more of someone'slike needing to have it, more
action.
And then there's even justnoticing, like the gesture that
you could do, whether it's likeyour hand on your heart or even
like the hug right, so, likeyour hands, almost like a
(14:16):
butterfly.
When I'm working with clients,I'm helping them access like
what gesture feels good to them.
What gesture actually doestheir inside body say is the
gesture that feels right forthem?
Right, we could do that too,for ourselves, to notice what
feels right for them.
Liliana Baylon (14:31):
Right, we could do that too, for ourselves to
notice what feels right what abeautiful way to even model
consent what feels good for you,right, because that will, uh,
transcend to what does it feel.
Can you notice what does itfeel good for your child,
instead of like what you want todo?
Maria Diego (14:51):
yeah, or even what the have tos right?
I think the other thing I'm I'mpicking up from you, rose, is
like we are all driven by this,you know, idea that we have to,
we have to do it all.
We have to, right, I know, butright before we were talking
about, you know, the generationsbefore us having to, you know,
take on all of the householdlabor and chores and emotional
(15:14):
labor.
Child-rearing was oftenstrictly for the female
presenting partners and you know, heaven forbid, they also
worked a job outside of thehouse and carried all that.
So I think, especially asfemale presenting practitioners
(15:34):
and business owners, I thinkthere's an extra layer of like.
I feel like I have to do it all, and when I don't do it all, I
can be really mean and nasty tomyself and just focus on the
shortcomings.
And what I love hearing is likethat can be shifted and that's
(15:55):
a really good, maybe evenindicator that this is a
practice that needs to be kindof implemented and taken on.
Liliana Baylon (16:04):
Yeah, and even as you're saying that, maria, I
was like, and that even not onlycreates awareness, but it's a
privilege that other generationsdidn't have, only creates
awareness, but it's a privilegethat other generations didn't
have.
We're asking ourselves now isthis something that we want to
do?
What is it that my body needs?
How can I provide this formyself?
We're not asking someone elseto do it for us, like we are
(16:25):
learning to listen to our bodies, and that is a privilege that
other generations including notjust females, but within the
roles of being a therapist, theydidn't have.
This Absolutely.
Rose LaPiere (16:38):
Right.
So one of the things this is agood segue into this part of the
mindfulness, self-compassionthat can happen is that there
can be a moment in the beginning, when people are learning to
connect with themselves, thatgrief shows up when we're
offering compassion to ourselvesAnger, sadness.
(16:58):
I can remember when I was firstreally trying to practice doing
this, there was a moment I hadthis exchange with someone in my
family and that my kids werethere and I just was like I'm
like I need to just offer myselfsome self-compassion and I then
started to hysterically cry.
(17:20):
I think we were like leavingthe house or something, and I
can remember.
Then the kids are like, oh mygosh, mom, are you okay?
And I'm like you know what?
I think I just realized Ihaven't heard that voice to
myself to like that it's okaythat you're having a hard time.
And I said I think I'm justfeeling sad that I haven't been
(17:41):
kind to myself in a long timeand they were just like okay, I
think he was like eight yearsold or something seven years old
.
I think he was like eight yearsold or something seven years
old.
And but for me, having thatexperience, I had read about
hard feelings that can come upwith self-compassion.
But I want to name that topeople who are going to explore
(18:04):
this.
It can be like you know, you'vehad all these, like you've been
dusting a room and cleaning andyou've just shoved everything
under the carpet andself-compassion can be the thing
.
That is like lifting up the rugand the dust is there and we
don't want to like throw it out,throw the rug out and just be
like, oh, and here it's all backagain, because that will flood
(18:25):
in all those hard feelings.
So if you're trying this andhaving a hard time, it's okay,
like it's also really normal.
Just go slower, take a pause,move further away from it and
come back to it in smallersegments or do it with someone.
So I I feel like that is superimportant for people to hold on
(18:50):
to.
There's nothing wrong with youbecause you're feeling sadness
or you hear a critical voicewhen you're offering yourself
self-compassion.
Liliana Baylon (18:58):
And so, right there, right we're talking about
we don't have a template forthis and we're learning as we go
.
So rejecting that template whenit shows up, it's completely
normal.
Feeling everything iscompletely normal.
Not knowing what to do withwhat you're feeling is
completely normal because all ofus are learning a different
(19:22):
template that our parents orother, or a supervisor or other
therapist they didn't share withus because they didn't have
access to this.
Rose LaPiere (19:32):
Yeah.
Liliana Baylon (19:33):
Beautiful.
I mean, the three of us arelike for all our listeners.
We're like so engaged right nowand looking at each other,
we're like yeah.
Rose LaPiere (19:42):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And just you know, also wantingto connect with you, know
people in our society who haveexperienced, you know,
oppression or racism ordiscrimination can also.
There can be bigger challengesin accessing self-compassion
(20:04):
because of all those layers ofthere's something wrong with you
, right, learning that from avery early age.
So there are wonderfulmindfulness, self-compassionate
teachers who are people of colorwho are also teaching this
message and doing it in a waythat really honors and is
(20:28):
respectful and hopeful forpeople, for all people to be
able to have access to this.
Liliana Baylon (20:35):
So let me ask you this, because, as you're
talking, and we're talking aboutolder generations and the new
cohort, and how are we sharingthis with parents which I love
that you're working with parentsso much, and everything that
you share and everything thatyou post, what is the one thing
that you wish our systems,either associations or schools?
Well, yes, yeah, we'll startteaching um early on in regards
(20:59):
to mindfulness, self-compassion.
Rose LaPiere (21:04):
I think like we don't even need to use sometimes
the word of self-compassion.
I think it's just teaching kidsto be able to notice, maybe,
the experience, the feeling thatthey're having, and then can
they have, develop a voice, finda voice, access the teacher's
(21:24):
voice of kindness, right?
What happens with when we workwith kids, especially kids who
have anxiety or experiences youknow, traumatic experiences the
critic or negative voice is theone that's amplified, and kids
never really learn anywhere howto actually amplify the other
(21:47):
voice or what the other voicecould possibly be like.
So I feel like it can be donein very playful, simple ways of
being able to have people diptheir toe in oh, you're taking a
test.
And remember, sometimes whenwe're taking a test, we get that
(22:09):
negative voice that's like youcan't do this, blah, blah, blah.
You know in silliness.
And we can also just, you know,be kind to ourselves and say
like, wow, I studied, I did thebest I could and I'm just going
to be patient with myself, right?
Maria Diego (22:25):
So even just acknowledging that we can have
these contrasting voices, thatwe can decide to amplify one
over the other, yeah, I meanI've been watching Inside Out 2
with my kids and like that'swhat's coming to mind as a play
therapist inside out too with mykids and like that's what's
coming to mind as a playtherapist and you talk about
this right Is using thatlanguage to help children and
(22:46):
adults.
You know, be more mindful ofperhaps, like who's in control
of the console, who's driving umwho?
Who can we acknowledge, like Iget that that mean negative
voice is there and I can chooseto amplify kindness and
compassion right now, in thismoment.
Liliana Baylon (23:11):
Oh, beautiful, I love that, right, because we're
talking to everyone who'slistening, who's in the mental
health field, and we're likelook, there's so many things
that we can do for ourselves andin that, we're modeling to our
clients.
If they're parents, like it'sgoing even beyond that, because
they're then duplicating that athome with their children.
If you are a teacher, like thisis a way for you to connect
(23:34):
with your students and if youare a client, if you are a
student, like this is the waythat you can start practicing
these things from who's in yoursupport system.
As Maria stated, like we havepeople to call for everything
that we want to add fire wood tothe fire.
Like we have the person to dothat that we want to compassion.
(23:55):
We have the person.
Hopefully, you have the personto do that.
Also, is the touch that we needto apply, the butterfly, that
we need to provide pressure inorder to make sure, like to have
the sense that we're here.
You were talking about sensory,like what are the oils that I
enjoy in that moment that theycan bring me to my body and they
(24:15):
can help me?
It's a citrus, it's a lavender.
Like whatever it is for you.
Like whatever it is for you.
You're talking hey, if you area therapist and if you have
access to a sand tray, you cango and create a tray in order to
help you not only become aware,externalize it, to create a
container in that moment.
And then you're teaching usthis beautiful thing of yes, we
(24:37):
have negative cognitions.
Then more than likely, we tookon from systems, either our
family or school, whatever itwas.
But you can also amplify theother voice, you can also
empower and allow space for theother boy and we can say, like
kind of the inside out, we havethese controls and we get to
press buttons to see, like whichone that we want convince
(25:09):
clinicians to to do this.
Maria Diego (25:13):
Not just for them Well, for themselves, because I
think we can get people to buyin to do this for client work
and for the work that we do.
But how do we, how do you getclinicians to buy into this for
themselves?
Because self-care is such abuzzword, it carries such such
heavy and negative connotations.
So what's the trick?
(25:35):
How do we?
How do you?
How do you get them to buy in?
Rose LaPiere (25:38):
Yeah, I think.
So I've taught on this topicbefore and what I call it is not
necessarily mindfulness,self-compassion, and so that is
part of it, because I do feellike one people don't really
understand what that means.
(25:59):
So if I were to label aworkshop that way, it just
doesn't capture what we would do.
So this was actually at theconference where we were
together in Virginia where Itaught the workshop.
So I called it something, butnurturing journaling, called it
(26:23):
something, but nurturingjournaling, collage and
something else a movement, Ithink.
And we did experientials wherewe experienced.
First it was like I scaffoldedthe skill of mindfulness,
self-compassion with noticing,you know, like creating what are
your likes, what are the thingsthat you don't like, notice
(26:47):
what it feels like.
Maybe there's the same thing oneach list.
Right, I can enjoy one thing,and that also can be the thing
that's hard for me.
And then we move to talkingmore specifically about building
up the things inside of us thatfeel good, moving towards the
things that feel good, andgiving people experiences and
(27:11):
noticing their body what doesyour body need right now?
And being able to do thatthrough movement.
So, whether it was a massage totheir temples or, you know,
stretching and having kind wordsas you were doing that instead
of like, oh, I can't believe I'mstiff Right.
Like, oh, my body feels tight.
Like let me just be kind as I'mstretching, or let me be
(27:35):
patient to myself as I'm moving.
So I think it's hard because, Imean, I'm hoping that that's
part of the reason why I wantedto talk about it, and I know
there are other people that alsotalk about it as well.
I'm hoping in this it will getpeople curious enough to maybe
go on Dr Neff's website and do aself-compassion meditation or
(27:56):
read more about how thisbenefits therapists.
In the moment is that when I'mwith a client and I'm noticing
I'm trying to keep my one footin and one foot out, as we say
in EMDR right, I'm in a traumasituation where they're talking
about something and I'm noticingactivation in me.
I can easily put my hand on myheart and that will help my
(28:21):
nervous system go into a breakwhere I can feel more connection
to me and a slowing downwithout me saying much to myself
.
But I can also acknowledge like, oh, this is hard for me and
this is.
I'm staying connected to myclient and I'm noticing
something is happening in meRight and so there's benefit to
(28:44):
that.
So I think therapists maybeeven just hearing me talk about
it from that lens how thatbenefits them to be
self-compassionate, because youcan be more present with your
client and you're not.
You're less likely todissociate, to get activated,
where then your nervous systemis, like you know, bunched up
and really tight and you'releaving at the end of the work
(29:04):
day exhausted.
Liliana Baylon (29:07):
Um, yeah, I love that, that dual awareness,
right, like so beautiful, oh, um, okay.
So, as we're getting, I was likeI we can.
I think it's because my nervoussystem feels so calm with you
right now, I'm like, butobviously for everyone who's
(29:28):
listening, we're gonna put Roseinformation in the podcast.
Please reach out to her, eitherfor consultation, because
you're curious and you want tolearn more, but also so that you
can ask what are the workshopsthat she's doing so that you can
go and attend, or even so thatshe can recommend books, because
she actually has good books torecommend and you should read
(29:53):
them.
And even like in thisconversation, right, that we are
labeling mindfulnessself-compassion, not only as a
therapist, as a business owner,as a parent, as a wife, as a
mother, like we have all theseroles that we carry with us and
we tend to minimize by just whatwe do instead of who we are.
So it's a beautiful way of like.
(30:15):
There's too many things thatRose have mentioned today in
regards to what you can do.
Please reach out to her so thatyou can learn more from her.
Rose LaPiere (30:23):
And what is one thing, rose, that you wanna
close our podcast episode todaywith.
I think I would love people tojust be curious about this
conversation and maybe evennoticing where they can find, if
(30:45):
not a kind voice withinthemselves, where in their life
they can pull from.
What would a friend say to methat would offer me something
kind in this moment that I'mfeeling stressed out?
I think the curiosity can leadpeople to explore more about
this because this topic,although can seem really light
(31:09):
or like self-care-ish, right inthat, it is deeply rooted to the
connection to ourselves um foreveryone who's not.
Liliana Baylon (31:27):
You're going to listen, watching.
I just want you to know thatthe image that I came out as
ross was talking about is almostlike if you're holding me um
right, because you are like fromyour tone of voice and what
you're sharing.
You have this beautifulpresence of um having others not
only feel seen, but beingnurtured, and that is the gift
that not everyone has.
So, thank you you.
Rose LaPiere (31:46):
Yeah, that feels really.
I feel really grateful to knowyou both and to just share these
moments with you and all themoments that we had before, like
just yeah, really grateful tobe with you thank you same, yeah
, and thank you for for sharing,um, your, your wisdom, um, with
(32:08):
our listeners.
Maria Diego (32:09):
I'm hoping, uh, that people do stay curious, um,
and find out where you'representing next and sit in on a
workshop or two, um, I knowthere's some of my favorites to
attend.
So, um, they'll, they'll,they'll, love it and then be
better for it, for sure.
Liliana Baylon (32:27):
So until next time, listeners, thank you and
we'll see you later.
Until then, bye.
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