March 27, 2025 • 26 mins
When tragedy strikes a community, mental health professionals rush to provide support—but who supports them? This candid conversation explores the often-overlooked challenges faced by therapists in the aftermath of a recent mass shooting in Las Cruces, New Mexico.
We dive into the harsh reality that mental health providers are expected to function as first responders without receiving the recognition, resources, or support given to other emergency personnel. Despite carrying traumatic stories day after day, therapists are left to navigate their emotional responses while continuing to show up for clients in crisis. As one provider notes, "We had trauma caseloads before this incident in our community. This is just an added layer."
The discussion reveals the systemic failures that leave clinicians vulnerable during community crises. Professional associations collect dues and enforce regulations but remain absent when therapists need advocacy and support. Insurance companies impose arbitrary session limits that contradict everything research tells us about trauma recovery timelines. Meanwhile, clinicians are expected to practice "self-care" without the structural support that would make it possible.
What might meaningful support look like? Simple gestures such as providing meals during crisis periods, coffee deliveries, massage therapy vouchers, or movie tickets for mental breaks can acknowledge the humanity of those expected to be endlessly available. Beyond individual actions, the conversation calls for policy changes recognizing the marathon nature of trauma work and providing long-term resources to sustain those doing this essential healing work.
Share your ideas for realistic ways to support mental health clinicians during community crises. Together, we can create better care systems for those who care for everyone else.
A Hero's Welcome Podcast © Maria Laquerre-Diego & Liliana Baylon
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Liliana Baylon (00:02):
hello everyone.
I'm even thinking is it a hello?
It is a hello for everyonewho's listening and
unfortunately, we're going tohave a conversation that, for
all of us in mental health, isbecoming the norm.
So one of the reasons why weare here in this special episode
is that I know somethinghappened within maria's
(00:23):
community.
Maria, do you want to sharewhat happened for our listeners?
Maria Diego (00:27):
Yeah, thank you.
So let's see, we're recordingthis on a Tuesday, so Friday.
Just a few days ago we had amass shooting at one of our
local parks here in my community.
At this time, three individualshave died from this mass
(00:47):
shooting and there's 15 morewith injuries from it.
Those affected ranged I want tosay that it's from 16 through
adulthood.
This was an unsanctioned kindof car meetup event at a very
popular park here in town thatended up really tragically,
(01:12):
resulting in at least threelives lost.
Liliana Baylon (01:15):
So everyone who's listening just notice
what's happening in your body,because it doesn't have to be
this specifics, but all of ushave attended to something in
our community similar to this.
So, then, the idea thatprompted this episode, when
Maria and I were doing check-ins, is how do we hold space for
our community when our communityis impacted by trauma, right?
Maria Diego (01:40):
Fortunately, it's becoming more and more the norm
for our society and ourcommunities to experience these
Right Like I, would consider LasCruces a very small town.
It pretends to be a big citybecause we're the second most
populous city in our state, butthat means nothing.
If you've been here, we'restill very much a small town,
(02:01):
and this has really rocked ourcommunity.
It's the first major incidentlike this that I've been here
for.
Liliana Baylon (02:11):
So, as we're holding space, as mental health
therapists, for our clients, forour communities, for our
neighbors, it doesn't matterwhat trauma it was.
Then what we're discussing iswe tend to, as mental health
therapists, we tend to like jumpin into action and rescue when
in reality, we need to do a stepback.
(02:31):
Or, as Lisa and Diane will say,can you have a dual attention?
Yeah, and we do a step back anda structure of what is it that
is needed, right?
So you were talking when I wasdoing a check-in with you on how
the community and your agencywas shocked.
So we went to the shell shock,the anticipatory anxiety, which
(02:57):
obviously I cannot talk thismorning, right.
But then we tend to see thefloodgates open.
So we're getting so muchinformation, we get bombarded
from the news, the phone calls.
If you are in social mediagroups, everyone wants to jump
in and either say something oroffer something.
(03:17):
So then most of us who are init, when you think about the eye
of the tornado, when you're init, we're looking up in.
When will normal life resume?
Yeah?
Maria Diego (03:32):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely yeah.
And we you know this happenslate on a Friday night there was
, you know, investigations andcalls for information throughout
all of Saturday.
Sunday, there was turnout atthe park for memorials, for, you
know, support, again trying torequest information from anyone
(03:59):
who might have been there, right.
But it's all this kind offlurry of activity and, you know
, in our community, gatheredtogether they held like a
resource spot where people couldcome for resources and it
really didn't start to hit therest of the community until
Monday morning, right, when weall had to go back, we had to
(04:22):
get ready to go to work, we hadto get ready to take the kids to
school and suddenly, at leastfor us, we were then bombarded,
me both personally and throughwork contacts.
You know, my, my child knewsomeone who was there.
You know that was a cousin of afamily member.
That was my cousin.
(04:43):
What do I do?
Where do I go?
Who can I see?
Because, right, like on aweekend, real life is kind of
suspended.
So it really wasn't untilMonday for a lot of people not
everybody, but for a lot ofpeople that it was like oh no,
this was something real.
I'm starting to see theimmediate impact of this.
And, like what do I do, I'mstarting to see the immediate
(05:04):
impact of this.
Liliana Baylon (05:04):
And like what do I do?
So then, to put it in astructure for everyone who's
listening?
Right, the floodgates open andthen it's how do we answer the
call?
Who do we know in the personallevel, who got affected in the
community level, and how do werespond to it, especially when
we're being tasked as mentalhealth therapists?
(05:26):
Somehow we automatically in thefine print we did not read,
which is how are we going to beanswering to caring for our
community In this moment?
It's not, and I'm going to govery political here.
Here is not.
(05:46):
The politicians who areanswering, who always want to
answer with you, are in ourprayers.
To the administrations we tendto cut a lot of resources, yeah,
and to agencies who arestruggling to provide these
services to our communitybecause we don't have what we
need.
Yeah, absolutely Right, in thattask, again that all of us and
(06:09):
we can laugh, laugh, not likeI'm crying, but I'm not crying
which was in our master'sprogram, very tiny lines, which
is you will be tasked for caringyour community, for caring for
your community, but in that, howdo how, are we mindful and
balance all of this?
Maria Diego (06:27):
Right, it's difficult, right.
So there is this immediatesurge of other resources trying
to step in and be helpful, whichI'm not knocking and it is
necessary, it is helpful.
But we also know that there'skind of a delayed impact on the
trauma response sometimes.
And how do I?
(06:48):
You know, I own a grouppractice, I have kids in this
community, my family lives inthis community.
How do we be mindful in ourresponse?
How do I stay balanced and stay, you know, taking care of
myself while providing thatsupport?
And it's, you know, it isinteresting how different
(07:08):
sectors I'm going to call themin our communities respond to
these things.
It's Tuesday, it's only Tuesday,this right now, but I've gotten
three different phone callsrequesting interviews on the
impact of trauma and EMDR and ifthat's helpful in situations
like this, which are fantasticopportunities.
(07:30):
But that is not my priorityright now.
Right, like, I need to makesure that my therapists are okay
because they're seeing sessionafter session and most of them
right now are trauma aftertrauma.
Right, we had trauma caseloadsbefore this incident in our
community.
This is just an added layerthat you know.
(07:52):
We couldn't have anticipatedthis.
And how do I you know we werechatting before like, how do I
stay balanced and mindful?
Because, yes, the helper partof me wants to like, rush in and
give all the things and you andI know, and in all of our
conversations, like that's notthe answer, that doesn't serve
(08:13):
long-term.
And so how do we navigate thisso that it doesn't come across
as that we're not responsive?
Right, we don't want to benon-responsive, yeah, and we
can't all show up as firstresponders, because then there
won't be anybody else when therest of the fallout starts to
show up yeah.
Liliana Baylon (08:34):
So I knew, for all of you who are listening,
that this happened because Mariawe were.
We do regular check-ins, soMaria share with me.
So I've been doing check-inswith her and part of our
conversation is how cliniciansare going from trauma after
trauma, which then is like sowho's attending to the
clinicians?
So the clinicians are runningin to take care of the community
(08:55):
, so who's attending to us?
What association is reachingout to say, hey, we know about
this happening in your community.
We want to be part of thesolution.
That's my fantasy, by the way,don't mock it.
And how are they supporting us?
They say that they care aboutus.
Well, how are they supportingus?
How are they talking about this?
(09:15):
The community associations inour field talks about self-care
and taking care of ourselves.
So what would that look likewhen we, as you just stated,
we're dealing with regulartrauma with our clients, and
it's so bad that we call itregular trauma?
Maria Diego (09:33):
But what other name is there?
Right?
It's like baseline trauma.
Liliana Baylon (09:37):
We're all walking around with a baseline
and then things like this happenand no one is giving us
policies to take care of ourcommunities, take care of us.
So then, what does taking careof ourselves look like or sound
like Right?
Maria Diego (09:56):
Right, right, no, absolutely, because I mean, I am
thankful we have yourselfincluded.
We've had an outpouring of howcan I help?
I can offer EMDR via telehealth.
I'm happy to offer pro bonosessions, which is fantastic,
and I've got a running list ofwhat.
You know, what resources we canconnect people with, like I,
(10:22):
you know, I'm my therapist too.
They're like you know, I canoffer additional crisis sessions
.
I'm like, thank you, and how doyou balance that?
Because, yes, yes, I love thatyou're going to step up and
you're going to offer more hoursand be available for more
clients, and I also need you tobe taking care of yourself,
because this, this cannot be asprint.
This is a marathon.
And while you know, while, yes,we can offer some short-term
(10:45):
crisis interventions, um, thelingering effects on clinicians,
yeah, it doesn't just go away.
After that, 55 minute timergoes off thank you, right.
Liliana Baylon (10:57):
So then it goes back to so how are we are going
to?
And wait a minute.
I sign up to be a mental healththerapist.
I sign up to respond to firstresponder, even though we don't
get the benefits of firstresponders, I'm still bitter
about it.
I don't get discounts on cellphones or anything.
I don't get special coffee.
That's right.
(11:26):
I want my coffee, um.
And then we have to go andadvocate.
So most of us who are mfts, weknow that because when we went
to our master's program, thatwas very explicitly said to us.
You know, part of your job isto advocate.
However, we didn't have astructure for how.
How will that look like?
So how do we advocate forchange, which tend to go into
politics, and most mental healththerapists and associations
state we don't get into politics, we do not talk about politics.
(11:49):
Really, this is affecting us.
How do we cannot be the agentsof change here?
Maria Diego (11:53):
Absolutely, absolutely and as much as we
would like to.
Right, like I, I want to say,like I grew up very naive about
politics.
But, as you said, I met youuntil I kind of escalated in my
own career where it was startingto become very obvious that
decisions being made in onesector of the world was directly
(12:18):
impacting me in my work, right,and the clients that we serve
and our ability to do the workthat we need to do and have a
livable wage and all of thosepieces.
Like politics is part of ourfield, whether we want to
embrace it or not.
Failing to see that only leadsto more complications and
(12:38):
heartache, right, and so likewhat would that?
What does that look like?
I mean, what do I want for myclinicians right now?
I want I don't know.
I mean, I know money isn't theanswer for anything, but I want
stipends so that they can taketime off from from client, from
seeing clients, and engage inactual self-care for them,
(12:59):
whether that's hiking in ourmountains, whether that's bed
rotting for two days, likewhatever.
Like, I want funding forclinicians who need to step away
and take care of themselves.
I want true self-care offerslike coffee shops show up at my
office.
Bring a coffee shop to myoffice right, bring your little
(13:21):
truck over and fuel us for theday or you know healthy lunches.
You know, it would be what anice gift of giving back to feed
the responders who areresponding.
Right, and you're right, wedon't get included in first
responders.
We do when it's convenient forfunding or those types of things
(13:41):
, but we are, you know, I knowthat there right now there's,
you know, there are thingshappening in our community for
their first responders who didhave to respond to that incident
and they should they should begetting treatment and and we
also deserve the same level oftreatment and respect and
support.
(14:02):
Yes, right, like, how nice wouldit be for my clinicians who are
doing back to back to backsessions for someone to come in
and be like, hey, we don't knowwhat else to do, but we brought
lunch for you guys, or we'vebrought sweet treats and coffee,
um, or you know, there's amassage school in town we're
offering, we're going to giveyou guys each a free massage
(14:23):
when you can schedule it.
Here you go Mindfulness retreat, like something, but something
that looks at taking care of theclinician themselves.
Yeah, because, yes, you know,we we preach that the best
therapists have therapiststhemselves, so I've made sure
that my therapists are gettingin to see their own therapist
regularly, but I think it wouldgo a long way for clinicians to
(14:47):
be seen as a whole person alsodoing first responder work.
Liliana Baylon (14:53):
Yeah.
So again, yes, first responders, firefighter, police officers,
like all of you deserve this andplease include us, do not
exclude us, because we're partof you.
We are called to provide mentalhealth sessions for you and the
trauma that you're holding, sodon't forget us.
Advocate for us as well, andthen, in the advocacy, like we
(15:16):
are naming everything that isneeded, right, but I think we
need empathy from ourpoliticians, we need empathy
from our states.
We need resources, as you'renaming.
Don't leave us behind when youare the first one who needs us
every time that something likethis happens.
Absolutely.
Maria Diego (15:35):
And we require long-term support.
I think that's.
The other thing is like theofferings that do come are
immediate and once this has dieddown, that all gets pulled back
when the reality is.
That is when our work reallytruly starts to get going right.
If we're doing, you know,trauma work with those that were
(15:56):
present, whose loved ones havepassed away because of this
incident, whose loved ones arenow gravely injured because of
this incident, this isn't, intwo months, going to be just
fine for them.
My clinician's schedules aren'tgoing to stop being this full
after two months have passedright, whereas like medical
(16:17):
response, right, we can get youstabilized, there's a treatment
plan we can give you.
You know, in two months you'regoing to be in a cast and you'll
be able to resume life.
The trauma work that we do islonger term, it's slower going
and the support needs to lastthe length that we need it to,
(16:39):
not some arbitrary numbercreated by someone who's not
doing the work.
Liliana Baylon (16:46):
Thank you for calling that out right.
So we have the research.
We had a book that everyassociation talks about, which
is the body keeps score.
Oh my God, they use it like aBible, yet they forget about us
in that Bible.
So we need you.
The other thing is I love thatyou named this which is systems
(17:09):
to say, okay, there's a trauma,I'll give you eight sessions.
Oh, okay, because there's onlyone layer of the trauma.
Okay, we know, as mental healththerapists, that that's not
enough.
So this is where the politicsof our associations come in play
.
How are you advocating forchange?
How are you advocating so thatwe, as clinicians, do not go
(17:30):
through burnout and thenfantasize about going to work at
a store?
Maria Diego (17:35):
so that we don't have in the middle of the night
so that nobody can talk to us.
Liliana Baylon (17:39):
Yeah, I mean maybe maybe I'm the only one who
has that that fancy uh, I havesaid it in other episodes that
my fantasy is working in alibrary so that I can read and
no one talks to me and we canlaugh about it.
Right and at the end of the dayis what is the support ongoing
support that we as cliniciansand systems can provide for our
(18:02):
clients, when we know theeffects of trauma because we
have so much research on it?
And then what is the supportthe systems, including
politicians and agencies and ourassociations, are gonna do to
support us as clinicians?
We need change, that's whatwe're saying.
Maria Diego (18:24):
We absolutely need change, um, and it and it's
system-wide.
I mean you and I are mfts.
We've disclosed that.
We are system speakers.
It is what we do, um, but it issystem, it is system-wide right
, like we need.
We need cross-sectorcommunication and understanding
about what it is right.
(18:44):
You were just speaking and wedidn't have our podcast during
COVID, but we did, but itbrought up right, like help the
helpers, like we.
We went to trainings on how tohelp the medical staff who were
being, you know, a front linefor the COVID.
You know, we I went to, I wentto specialized trainings on that
(19:05):
.
We were offering specializedappointments for the helpers and
we were the helpers.
We are also part of the helpthe helpers that we overlook
because we're in a service.
Yeah, we're in a service-basedindustry.
Yeah, we're in a service-basedindustry.
Liliana Baylon (19:25):
Yes, thank you for naming that, because I was
still.
Obviously I'm bitter.
I'm a bitter woman.
That's going to be in my shirtfrom now on, and part of it is
(19:45):
joking aside is because I care,because I see you and I have
like powerful discussions thatnot everyone has access to in
regards to what is the deficitsin our community, in the mental
health community.
How we held accountability,responsibility and
accountability to associationswho have no problem
micromanaging and taking moneyfrom us, but somehow they don't
take into account this andadvocate it for us.
How he said that in our statewe are micromanaged but those
(20:08):
boards are protecting clients,not us, right?
And then, like I can go on andon.
Obviously, I'm not going to runfor politicians because they'll
kill me right away.
Maria Diego (20:16):
Let's be honest, neither you or I would make a
great politician, don't think?
Liliana Baylon (20:24):
But because we're MFTs and we think of
systems, we think beyond ourclients, we think beyond
ourselves, we see thingsdifferently.
And then I get it.
You and I also were being veryvocal about our health struggles
.
What would that look likeoutside and inside our field?
Because of that, the amount ofempathy that we have for our
(20:45):
clients, the things that we makemore sense to us than to others
because that shared experiencewith our clients.
So there's like a lot of thingsthat come up for you and me and
through this podcast we'retrying to shed a light so that
others can see them too.
Maria Diego (21:03):
Absolutely, yeah.
I mean, we've acknowledged inpast episodes too that we are
both privileged, that we havenothing to lose by being vocal
about these things.
Liliana Baylon (21:13):
I mean we will lose.
They can take a lot of thingsand they can kill us.
Maria Diego (21:20):
Part of the reason for the podcast is for other
clinicians in similar situationsdon't feel alone, right?
Because before we wereconnected and started having
these conversations I know Ishared with you.
I was like I felt like I wasthe only one trying to navigate
this right on.
What does that look like andwhy did it take me so long to
(21:43):
figure it out that it wasn'tjust me and that's the way that
systems want to keep us siloedand not share information.
But part of today's recordingwas I know my community is not
the only one.
Sadly, we're not the only one.
We're not the only one.
This year we won't be the onlyone.
That happens in New Mexico, letalone our country, and it feels
(22:07):
really alone right now.
Right, I'm lucky to have theoutpouring of support from
clinicians nationwide that I'veconnected with and I'm the one
fielding the calls.
I'm.
You know our center is the onetrying to like get as many
people in for services aspossible while protecting our
clinicians.
It does feel really lonely andI don't want anyone else to feel
(22:32):
like, oh, they are truly theonly one going through this,
because they're not, and if wecould talk about it more often,
that feeling would go away.
Liliana Baylon (22:40):
Yeah, love this.
Yeah, love this.
Thank you, maria, for thisspecial episode and talking
(23:01):
about not only what it's like tohave different roles as the
community gets impacted withthis trauma, but also
highlighting the structure of it, the things that we don't talk
about and the lack of supportfor us.
So, community, if you'relistening, please advocate.
Send coffee that's the priority, not water Coffee.
We need to be caffeinated.
Coffee has water in it, that'strue.
Send food.
We need to eat and most of us,all of you know, all of you
therapists, know that when wehave back to back, we forget to
eat.
Yeah, yeah.
(23:22):
So if you send us food, thefood will be there, the smells
will be there, we'll be like Ihave to eat, I forgot to eat.
Yeah, so if you send us food,the food will be there, the
smells will be, there, will belike I have to eat, I forgot to
eat.
Send us food to take care of usand if you are a first
responder, please include us.
Maria Diego (23:33):
We also need help, yeah and we want and we want to
help you, right, we wanted, wewanted to go both ways.
Yeah, and this and listenerslike, if you, let's start, let's
start a long list of realisticsupport and self-care that can
be given in times like this,right, like, one of the other
things that came to mind is likemovie tickets, so that
(23:56):
clinicians have a break and cango and enjoy a movie and turn
their brain off for a little bit.
But, yeah, I want to hear fromeverybody else, like what if you
, if you had your magic wand andwe used it for for this, what
would you include on that list?
What are the things that wouldbe helpful in caring for the
clinician who was caring for thehurting community?
Liliana Baylon (24:16):
Oh, love this.
So again, everyone listening?
Maria just gave you a call ofaction Reach out to us, let's
share it, let's create, share it, let's create our Christmas
wish list.
Hopefully we don't have to waituntil Christmas, but let's
create it so that we can put itout there and share that, so
that people know what is it thatthey can do to support us,
because we are humans who needalso support and thank you,
(24:39):
liliana, for the space thismorning for this, are you
kidding?
thank you for sharing.
Thank you for listening untilnext time.
Till then,
hello everyone.
I'm even thinking is it a hello?
It is a hello for everyonewho's listening and
unfortunately, we're going tohave a conversation that, for
all of us in mental health, isbecoming the norm.
So one of the reasons why weare here in this special episode
is that I know somethinghappened within maria's
(00:23):
community.
Maria, do you want to sharewhat happened for our listeners?
Maria Diego (00:27):
Yeah, thank you.
So let's see, we're recordingthis on a Tuesday, so Friday.
Just a few days ago we had amass shooting at one of our
local parks here in my community.
At this time, three individualshave died from this mass
(00:47):
shooting and there's 15 morewith injuries from it.
Those affected ranged I want tosay that it's from 16 through
adulthood.
This was an unsanctioned kindof car meetup event at a very
popular park here in town thatended up really tragically,
(01:12):
resulting in at least threelives lost.
Liliana Baylon (01:15):
So everyone who's listening just notice
what's happening in your body,because it doesn't have to be
this specifics, but all of ushave attended to something in
our community similar to this.
So, then, the idea thatprompted this episode, when
Maria and I were doing check-ins, is how do we hold space for
our community when our communityis impacted by trauma, right?
Maria Diego (01:40):
Fortunately, it's becoming more and more the norm
for our society and ourcommunities to experience these
Right Like I, would consider LasCruces a very small town.
It pretends to be a big citybecause we're the second most
populous city in our state, butthat means nothing.
If you've been here, we'restill very much a small town,
(02:01):
and this has really rocked ourcommunity.
It's the first major incidentlike this that I've been here
for.
Liliana Baylon (02:11):
So, as we're holding space, as mental health
therapists, for our clients, forour communities, for our
neighbors, it doesn't matterwhat trauma it was.
Then what we're discussing iswe tend to, as mental health
therapists, we tend to like jumpin into action and rescue when
in reality, we need to do a stepback.
(02:31):
Or, as Lisa and Diane will say,can you have a dual attention?
Yeah, and we do a step back anda structure of what is it that
is needed, right?
So you were talking when I wasdoing a check-in with you on how
the community and your agencywas shocked.
So we went to the shell shock,the anticipatory anxiety, which
(02:57):
obviously I cannot talk thismorning, right.
But then we tend to see thefloodgates open.
So we're getting so muchinformation, we get bombarded
from the news, the phone calls.
If you are in social mediagroups, everyone wants to jump
in and either say something oroffer something.
(03:17):
So then most of us who are init, when you think about the eye
of the tornado, when you're init, we're looking up in.
When will normal life resume?
Yeah?
Maria Diego (03:32):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely yeah.
And we you know this happenslate on a Friday night there was
, you know, investigations andcalls for information throughout
all of Saturday.
Sunday, there was turnout atthe park for memorials, for, you
know, support, again trying torequest information from anyone
(03:59):
who might have been there, right.
But it's all this kind offlurry of activity and, you know
, in our community, gatheredtogether they held like a
resource spot where people couldcome for resources and it
really didn't start to hit therest of the community until
Monday morning, right, when weall had to go back, we had to
(04:22):
get ready to go to work, we hadto get ready to take the kids to
school and suddenly, at leastfor us, we were then bombarded,
me both personally and throughwork contacts.
You know, my, my child knewsomeone who was there.
You know that was a cousin of afamily member.
That was my cousin.
(04:43):
What do I do?
Where do I go?
Who can I see?
Because, right, like on aweekend, real life is kind of
suspended.
So it really wasn't untilMonday for a lot of people not
everybody, but for a lot ofpeople that it was like oh no,
this was something real.
I'm starting to see theimmediate impact of this.
And, like what do I do, I'mstarting to see the immediate
(05:04):
impact of this.
Liliana Baylon (05:04):
And like what do I do?
So then, to put it in astructure for everyone who's
listening?
Right, the floodgates open andthen it's how do we answer the
call?
Who do we know in the personallevel, who got affected in the
community level, and how do werespond to it, especially when
we're being tasked as mentalhealth therapists?
(05:26):
Somehow we automatically in thefine print we did not read,
which is how are we going to beanswering to caring for our
community In this moment?
It's not, and I'm going to govery political here.
Here is not.
(05:46):
The politicians who areanswering, who always want to
answer with you, are in ourprayers.
To the administrations we tendto cut a lot of resources, yeah,
and to agencies who arestruggling to provide these
services to our communitybecause we don't have what we
need.
Yeah, absolutely Right, in thattask, again that all of us and
(06:09):
we can laugh, laugh, not likeI'm crying, but I'm not crying
which was in our master'sprogram, very tiny lines, which
is you will be tasked for caringyour community, for caring for
your community, but in that, howdo how, are we mindful and
balance all of this?
Maria Diego (06:27):
Right, it's difficult, right.
So there is this immediatesurge of other resources trying
to step in and be helpful, whichI'm not knocking and it is
necessary, it is helpful.
But we also know that there'skind of a delayed impact on the
trauma response sometimes.
And how do I?
(06:48):
You know, I own a grouppractice, I have kids in this
community, my family lives inthis community.
How do we be mindful in ourresponse?
How do I stay balanced and stay, you know, taking care of
myself while providing thatsupport?
And it's, you know, it isinteresting how different
(07:08):
sectors I'm going to call themin our communities respond to
these things.
It's Tuesday, it's only Tuesday,this right now, but I've gotten
three different phone callsrequesting interviews on the
impact of trauma and EMDR and ifthat's helpful in situations
like this, which are fantasticopportunities.
(07:30):
But that is not my priorityright now.
Right, like, I need to makesure that my therapists are okay
because they're seeing sessionafter session and most of them
right now are trauma aftertrauma.
Right, we had trauma caseloadsbefore this incident in our
community.
This is just an added layerthat you know.
(07:52):
We couldn't have anticipatedthis.
And how do I you know we werechatting before like, how do I
stay balanced and mindful?
Because, yes, the helper partof me wants to like, rush in and
give all the things and you andI know, and in all of our
conversations, like that's notthe answer, that doesn't serve
(08:13):
long-term.
And so how do we navigate thisso that it doesn't come across
as that we're not responsive?
Right, we don't want to benon-responsive, yeah, and we
can't all show up as firstresponders, because then there
won't be anybody else when therest of the fallout starts to
show up yeah.
Liliana Baylon (08:34):
So I knew, for all of you who are listening,
that this happened because Mariawe were.
We do regular check-ins, soMaria share with me.
So I've been doing check-inswith her and part of our
conversation is how cliniciansare going from trauma after
trauma, which then is like sowho's attending to the
clinicians?
So the clinicians are runningin to take care of the community
(08:55):
, so who's attending to us?
What association is reachingout to say, hey, we know about
this happening in your community.
We want to be part of thesolution.
That's my fantasy, by the way,don't mock it.
And how are they supporting us?
They say that they care aboutus.
Well, how are they supportingus?
How are they talking about this?
(09:15):
The community associations inour field talks about self-care
and taking care of ourselves.
So what would that look likewhen we, as you just stated,
we're dealing with regulartrauma with our clients, and
it's so bad that we call itregular trauma?
Maria Diego (09:33):
But what other name is there?
Right?
It's like baseline trauma.
Liliana Baylon (09:37):
We're all walking around with a baseline
and then things like this happenand no one is giving us
policies to take care of ourcommunities, take care of us.
So then, what does taking careof ourselves look like or sound
like Right?
Maria Diego (09:56):
Right, right, no, absolutely, because I mean, I am
thankful we have yourselfincluded.
We've had an outpouring of howcan I help?
I can offer EMDR via telehealth.
I'm happy to offer pro bonosessions, which is fantastic,
and I've got a running list ofwhat.
You know, what resources we canconnect people with, like I,
(10:22):
you know, I'm my therapist too.
They're like you know, I canoffer additional crisis sessions
.
I'm like, thank you, and how doyou balance that?
Because, yes, yes, I love thatyou're going to step up and
you're going to offer more hoursand be available for more
clients, and I also need you tobe taking care of yourself,
because this, this cannot be asprint.
This is a marathon.
And while you know, while, yes,we can offer some short-term
(10:45):
crisis interventions, um, thelingering effects on clinicians,
yeah, it doesn't just go away.
After that, 55 minute timergoes off thank you, right.
Liliana Baylon (10:57):
So then it goes back to so how are we are going
to?
And wait a minute.
I sign up to be a mental healththerapist.
I sign up to respond to firstresponder, even though we don't
get the benefits of firstresponders, I'm still bitter
about it.
I don't get discounts on cellphones or anything.
I don't get special coffee.
That's right.
(11:26):
I want my coffee, um.
And then we have to go andadvocate.
So most of us who are mfts, weknow that because when we went
to our master's program, thatwas very explicitly said to us.
You know, part of your job isto advocate.
However, we didn't have astructure for how.
How will that look like?
So how do we advocate forchange, which tend to go into
politics, and most mental healththerapists and associations
state we don't get into politics, we do not talk about politics.
(11:49):
Really, this is affecting us.
How do we cannot be the agentsof change here?
Maria Diego (11:53):
Absolutely, absolutely and as much as we
would like to.
Right, like I, I want to say,like I grew up very naive about
politics.
But, as you said, I met youuntil I kind of escalated in my
own career where it was startingto become very obvious that
decisions being made in onesector of the world was directly
(12:18):
impacting me in my work, right,and the clients that we serve
and our ability to do the workthat we need to do and have a
livable wage and all of thosepieces.
Like politics is part of ourfield, whether we want to
embrace it or not.
Failing to see that only leadsto more complications and
(12:38):
heartache, right, and so likewhat would that?
What does that look like?
I mean, what do I want for myclinicians right now?
I want I don't know.
I mean, I know money isn't theanswer for anything, but I want
stipends so that they can taketime off from from client, from
seeing clients, and engage inactual self-care for them,
(12:59):
whether that's hiking in ourmountains, whether that's bed
rotting for two days, likewhatever.
Like, I want funding forclinicians who need to step away
and take care of themselves.
I want true self-care offerslike coffee shops show up at my
office.
Bring a coffee shop to myoffice right, bring your little
(13:21):
truck over and fuel us for theday or you know healthy lunches.
You know, it would be what anice gift of giving back to feed
the responders who areresponding.
Right, and you're right, wedon't get included in first
responders.
We do when it's convenient forfunding or those types of things
(13:41):
, but we are, you know, I knowthat there right now there's,
you know, there are thingshappening in our community for
their first responders who didhave to respond to that incident
and they should they should begetting treatment and and we
also deserve the same level oftreatment and respect and
support.
(14:02):
Yes, right, like, how nice wouldit be for my clinicians who are
doing back to back to backsessions for someone to come in
and be like, hey, we don't knowwhat else to do, but we brought
lunch for you guys, or we'vebrought sweet treats and coffee,
um, or you know, there's amassage school in town we're
offering, we're going to giveyou guys each a free massage
(14:23):
when you can schedule it.
Here you go Mindfulness retreat, like something, but something
that looks at taking care of theclinician themselves.
Yeah, because, yes, you know,we we preach that the best
therapists have therapiststhemselves, so I've made sure
that my therapists are gettingin to see their own therapist
regularly, but I think it wouldgo a long way for clinicians to
(14:47):
be seen as a whole person alsodoing first responder work.
Liliana Baylon (14:53):
Yeah.
So again, yes, first responders, firefighter, police officers,
like all of you deserve this andplease include us, do not
exclude us, because we're partof you.
We are called to provide mentalhealth sessions for you and the
trauma that you're holding, sodon't forget us.
Advocate for us as well, andthen, in the advocacy, like we
(15:16):
are naming everything that isneeded, right, but I think we
need empathy from ourpoliticians, we need empathy
from our states.
We need resources, as you'renaming.
Don't leave us behind when youare the first one who needs us
every time that something likethis happens.
Absolutely.
Maria Diego (15:35):
And we require long-term support.
I think that's.
The other thing is like theofferings that do come are
immediate and once this has dieddown, that all gets pulled back
when the reality is.
That is when our work reallytruly starts to get going right.
If we're doing, you know,trauma work with those that were
(15:56):
present, whose loved ones havepassed away because of this
incident, whose loved ones arenow gravely injured because of
this incident, this isn't, intwo months, going to be just
fine for them.
My clinician's schedules aren'tgoing to stop being this full
after two months have passedright, whereas like medical
(16:17):
response, right, we can get youstabilized, there's a treatment
plan we can give you.
You know, in two months you'regoing to be in a cast and you'll
be able to resume life.
The trauma work that we do islonger term, it's slower going
and the support needs to lastthe length that we need it to,
(16:39):
not some arbitrary numbercreated by someone who's not
doing the work.
Liliana Baylon (16:46):
Thank you for calling that out right.
So we have the research.
We had a book that everyassociation talks about, which
is the body keeps score.
Oh my God, they use it like aBible, yet they forget about us
in that Bible.
So we need you.
The other thing is I love thatyou named this which is systems
(17:09):
to say, okay, there's a trauma,I'll give you eight sessions.
Oh, okay, because there's onlyone layer of the trauma.
Okay, we know, as mental healththerapists, that that's not
enough.
So this is where the politicsof our associations come in play
.
How are you advocating forchange?
How are you advocating so thatwe, as clinicians, do not go
(17:30):
through burnout and thenfantasize about going to work at
a store?
Maria Diego (17:35):
so that we don't have in the middle of the night
so that nobody can talk to us.
Liliana Baylon (17:39):
Yeah, I mean maybe maybe I'm the only one who
has that that fancy uh, I havesaid it in other episodes that
my fantasy is working in alibrary so that I can read and
no one talks to me and we canlaugh about it.
Right and at the end of the dayis what is the support ongoing
support that we as cliniciansand systems can provide for our
(18:02):
clients, when we know theeffects of trauma because we
have so much research on it?
And then what is the supportthe systems, including
politicians and agencies and ourassociations, are gonna do to
support us as clinicians?
We need change, that's whatwe're saying.
Maria Diego (18:24):
We absolutely need change, um, and it and it's
system-wide.
I mean you and I are mfts.
We've disclosed that.
We are system speakers.
It is what we do, um, but it issystem, it is system-wide right
, like we need.
We need cross-sectorcommunication and understanding
about what it is right.
(18:44):
You were just speaking and wedidn't have our podcast during
COVID, but we did, but itbrought up right, like help the
helpers, like we.
We went to trainings on how tohelp the medical staff who were
being, you know, a front linefor the COVID.
You know, we I went to, I wentto specialized trainings on that
(19:05):
.
We were offering specializedappointments for the helpers and
we were the helpers.
We are also part of the helpthe helpers that we overlook
because we're in a service.
Yeah, we're in a service-basedindustry.
Yeah, we're in a service-basedindustry.
Liliana Baylon (19:25):
Yes, thank you for naming that, because I was
still.
Obviously I'm bitter.
I'm a bitter woman.
That's going to be in my shirtfrom now on, and part of it is
(19:45):
joking aside is because I care,because I see you and I have
like powerful discussions thatnot everyone has access to in
regards to what is the deficitsin our community, in the mental
health community.
How we held accountability,responsibility and
accountability to associationswho have no problem
micromanaging and taking moneyfrom us, but somehow they don't
take into account this andadvocate it for us.
How he said that in our statewe are micromanaged but those
(20:08):
boards are protecting clients,not us, right?
And then, like I can go on andon.
Obviously, I'm not going to runfor politicians because they'll
kill me right away.
Maria Diego (20:16):
Let's be honest, neither you or I would make a
great politician, don't think?
Liliana Baylon (20:24):
But because we're MFTs and we think of
systems, we think beyond ourclients, we think beyond
ourselves, we see thingsdifferently.
And then I get it.
You and I also were being veryvocal about our health struggles
.
What would that look likeoutside and inside our field?
Because of that, the amount ofempathy that we have for our
(20:45):
clients, the things that we makemore sense to us than to others
because that shared experiencewith our clients.
So there's like a lot of thingsthat come up for you and me and
through this podcast we'retrying to shed a light so that
others can see them too.
Maria Diego (21:03):
Absolutely, yeah.
I mean, we've acknowledged inpast episodes too that we are
both privileged, that we havenothing to lose by being vocal
about these things.
Liliana Baylon (21:13):
I mean we will lose.
They can take a lot of thingsand they can kill us.
Maria Diego (21:20):
Part of the reason for the podcast is for other
clinicians in similar situationsdon't feel alone, right?
Because before we wereconnected and started having
these conversations I know Ishared with you.
I was like I felt like I wasthe only one trying to navigate
this right on.
What does that look like andwhy did it take me so long to
(21:43):
figure it out that it wasn'tjust me and that's the way that
systems want to keep us siloedand not share information.
But part of today's recordingwas I know my community is not
the only one.
Sadly, we're not the only one.
We're not the only one.
This year we won't be the onlyone.
That happens in New Mexico, letalone our country, and it feels
(22:07):
really alone right now.
Right, I'm lucky to have theoutpouring of support from
clinicians nationwide that I'veconnected with and I'm the one
fielding the calls.
I'm.
You know our center is the onetrying to like get as many
people in for services aspossible while protecting our
clinicians.
It does feel really lonely andI don't want anyone else to feel
(22:32):
like, oh, they are truly theonly one going through this,
because they're not, and if wecould talk about it more often,
that feeling would go away.
Liliana Baylon (22:40):
Yeah, love this.
Yeah, love this.
Thank you, maria, for thisspecial episode and talking
(23:01):
about not only what it's like tohave different roles as the
community gets impacted withthis trauma, but also
highlighting the structure of it, the things that we don't talk
about and the lack of supportfor us.
So, community, if you'relistening, please advocate.
Send coffee that's the priority, not water Coffee.
We need to be caffeinated.
Coffee has water in it, that'strue.
Send food.
We need to eat and most of us,all of you know, all of you
therapists, know that when wehave back to back, we forget to
eat.
Yeah, yeah.
(23:22):
So if you send us food, thefood will be there, the smells
will be there, we'll be like Ihave to eat, I forgot to eat.
Yeah, so if you send us food,the food will be there, the
smells will be, there, will belike I have to eat, I forgot to
eat.
Send us food to take care of usand if you are a first
responder, please include us.
Maria Diego (23:33):
We also need help, yeah and we want and we want to
help you, right, we wanted, wewanted to go both ways.
Yeah, and this and listenerslike, if you, let's start, let's
start a long list of realisticsupport and self-care that can
be given in times like this,right, like, one of the other
things that came to mind is likemovie tickets, so that
(23:56):
clinicians have a break and cango and enjoy a movie and turn
their brain off for a little bit.
But, yeah, I want to hear fromeverybody else, like what if you
, if you had your magic wand andwe used it for for this, what
would you include on that list?
What are the things that wouldbe helpful in caring for the
clinician who was caring for thehurting community?
Liliana Baylon (24:16):
Oh, love this.
So again, everyone listening?
Maria just gave you a call ofaction Reach out to us, let's
share it, let's create, share it, let's create our Christmas
wish list.
Hopefully we don't have to waituntil Christmas, but let's
create it so that we can put itout there and share that, so
that people know what is it thatthey can do to support us,
because we are humans who needalso support and thank you,
(24:39):
liliana, for the space thismorning for this, are you
kidding?
thank you for sharing.
Thank you for listening untilnext time.
Till then,
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