September 25, 2025 • 40 mins
We explore how pursuing personal passions, such as travel, can serve as a powerful burnout prevention strategy for therapists, with special guest Allison Rimland sharing her journey after losing her father and discovering the world of travel hacking.
- Allison shares how her father's sudden death prompted her to reconsider priorities and follow her parents' example of making travel a life priority.
- Introduction to travel hacking through home exchanges and credit card points as affordable ways to explore the world
- Discussion of the unique burnout challenges faced by supervisors who carry both their clients' stories and those of their supervisees
- Exploration of the question "If you could do anything with your time right now, what is lighting you up inside?"
- How practicing what we preach about boundaries and self-care looks different for each person
- The importance of challenging the "work now, live later" mentality that leads to burnout
- Practical ways group practice owners can model healthy work-life integration
- Why telehealth and flexibility create opportunities for "slow travel" and more profound experiences
- How listening to what naturally energizes you can guide career pivots and burnout prevention
Consider what you're already researching, talking about, and drawn to in your free time; this inner wisdom might be pointing toward what will truly energize and sustain you in your practice.
https://travelhackingtherapist.com/
A Hero's Welcome Podcast © Maria Laquerre-Diego & Liliana Baylon
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Maria (00:05):
Welcome back, listeners, to another episode.
I am your co-host, Maria Diego,and I'm joined by my bestie,
that's me I think Right, allison, it's me.
Liliana (00:13):
That's me, liliana Baylon, and we're here with a
special guest.
We're here with Allison.
Allison, how would you like topresent to our listeners?
Allison (00:24):
Well, hello, thank you for having me.
So my name is Allison Rimlandand I'm I own a group practice
here in the Denver area.
We specialize in relationshiptherapy and I have a wonderful,
wonderful team of grad studentsall the way up to very seasoned
(00:45):
clinicians.
So it's a fantastic group ofpeople and I'm just so honored
to get to work with them everyday.
I'm also a licensedprofessional counselor and a
certified emotionally focusedtherapy supervisor, so I enjoy
doing yeah, I do supervisionoutside my practice as well as
(01:08):
in my practice.
I feel like I wear an unlimitednumber of hats pretty much
every day.
I'm business owner, I'm mom,I'm wife, I'm friend, I'm a
daughter, I'm supervisor, I'maccountant all of those hats all
(01:29):
the time.
Maria (01:31):
That's a lot of decision making hats.
That's a lot of decision makinghats.
Yes.
Liliana (01:36):
Yeah, so before we introduce the topic, I was just
laughing because I was thinkingfor all of you therapists who
are listening, coming in andyou're like, I want to be a
therapist.
Allison is talking about allthe roles that you end up doing
without getting proper trainingfor it.
Allison (01:55):
Yes, right, we all know very well how ill-equipped we
are out of most graduateprograms for the business side
of running a therapy practice.
And then if you take on theadditional responsibility of a
group practice and you know allthese people that are on my team
, their, their graduate degreesand their livelihoods are on my
(02:17):
shoulders to take care of.
So, um yeah, it's a hugeresponsibility.
Maria (02:21):
I love that.
I love that, and it kind ofleads into what we're hoping to
chat about today, right, yes,yeah.
Allison (02:29):
Yeah, so my inspiration for today actually came about
in in in sharing my excitingnews with Liliana the other day,
and basically I was justreflecting on how, especially as
a supervisor, when you'resupporting clinicians how it's
(02:51):
almost double or more the loadof working with clients right,
because I continue to have myown clients and, of course, I
carry them in my heart and thinkabout them, but then all of the
people that I'm supervisinghave clients and I'm impacted by
those stories.
Right, it's like tertiarytrauma, sometimes with really,
(03:13):
really heavy stuff.
And then, because we're allhuman beings, as therapists, we
all have our own stuff too ourown life difficulties.
Stuff, too, our own lifedifficulties.
So, really, my exciting newdevelopment came out of my own
experience.
So Liliana and I might get alittle emotional talking about
(03:35):
this, but Liliana was one of thepeople who came in and stood by
my side in 2022 when I lost mydad, and you know I needed to
take time off because he gotsick and he died very, very
suddenly.
It was five weeks from when hegot sick to when he died, so it
(03:56):
was incredibly fast andtraumatic in and of itself, and
I needed this circle to wraparound me and support me and my
supervisees, because we stillhad to keep the lights on, we
still had to have sessionshappening, we still had to have
clients being supported in theirlife difficulties, and so
(04:20):
Liliana was one of the peoplethat generously stepped in and
found extra time in her scheduleto see some of my supervisees
who needed to be seen duringthat time.
So thank you again, liliana.
But my parents, I think, gaveme a huge gift, which is they
(04:40):
prioritized throughout theiralmost 60 year marriage um
traveling together and makingthe time to create special
memories.
So my father died in um the endof September 2022, and they
were in Normandy in August.
He was so sick Right, um, and sohe got to go on this bucket
(05:04):
list trip that was reallypersonally meaningful to him as
a veteran to go and, um, youknow they all those years had
had quite good health.
Um, of course they had theirups and downs and seasons where
(05:32):
things weren't so great, but, um, I think they just really
instilled in me this value ofyou know you only have one life
and you don't know when you'renot going to be able to take
advantage of it.
So people who you know work andwork and work and work and work
for decades on end and are kindof imagining this time, when I
(05:56):
retire, you might not get that,you might not get that in good
health.
And some travel is, you know,physical takes a lot out of us.
So, yeah, I think it all hasjust kind of come full circle
with feeling inspired to doright by my mom and dad and to
(06:19):
really take advantage of thisone precious life I've been
given and see what I can make ofit, and along the way I learned
about travel hacking.
Maria (06:30):
Travel hacking.
Travel hacking.
Liliana (06:35):
So can you tell us what travel hacking is so?
Allison (06:38):
travel.
Hacking can be a variety ofthings, but it's basically
taking the concept of travelingand thinking about creative ways
that you can travel affordablyand that fits into your season
of life or your lifestyle, buttaking advantage of some of the
(07:03):
methods out there that enablepeople to travel more affordably
.
So the two that I use are homeexchanging.
So I own a home in themountains it's a second home
with my husband and we have thathome listed on home exchange.
So we have done 30 plus homeexchanges in different parts of
(07:29):
the world and so essentially westay for free.
Maria (07:33):
Is this like I'm picturing the movie the Holiday?
Is this like where you justswap houses?
Exactly, exactly, yeah, exactly, exactly, yeah.
You can't see my face, but youcan hear it in my voice.
I am sure that is amazing.
Allison (07:59):
Yes, yes.
So just today just todayactually I got two home exchange
requests from other members onthe platform that we are part of
, which is homeexchangecom.
One is a family in Hawaii thatwants to exchange with us, and
another is a family that has ahouse in Turks and Caicos.
Maria (08:13):
What?
Yes, please, oh my gosh.
So in this exchange, you're nothaving to pay for lodging,
which can be a very expensivepart of traveling.
Allison (08:26):
Exactly.
Maria (08:27):
Exactly Okay, all right, so we've got home exchange.
Allison (08:33):
I've got home exchange.
And then the second big onethat I've been learning about is
the world of credit card points.
World of credit card points.
Okay, so my dear husband, whois quite the trooper, and I have
um he sometimes reluctantlyembarked on this world of credit
(08:56):
card points and miles, and wenow, between the two of us,
since, I would say last February, I think, with our very first
card, we've opened up about 10cards in total.
Okay, we're spending just asresponsibly as we normally would
, and we have now booked twoupcoming international trips
(09:23):
using points for our flights.
So these are business classflights.
So lie flat, sleep across theAtlantic, and we'll be going to
Portugal this fall and Greecenext spring.
Maria (09:43):
But you are also speaking to two people who do enjoy
traveling right so if you don'tenjoy traveling, this may not be
for you.
What I'm also hearing is it's inline with a conversation I was
having with someone the otherday about you know, I had the
privilege of growing up.
My formative years wereactually in Germany.
(10:04):
My dad was civil service forthe military and we were talking
.
I was talking recently with afriend about how lifestyles are
just so different outside of ourcountry.
Yes, and one of the biggestdifferences is that outside of
our country, people work as theylive their life.
Allison (10:22):
Yes.
Maria (10:23):
Whereas we work for this idea of a time where we get to
live our life after work.
Allison (10:28):
Yeah.
Maria (10:29):
Right and what you're what you're talking about here
is enjoying the time as we haveit, taken advantage and, and
living life while working, andyou're finding hacks to do it in
a way that's affordable for youand you're getting to see the
world, and for me, traveling andseeing the world and having
(10:54):
these- experiences I wanted toshare today, which is recently
I've just been feeling as Ianticipate empty nesting
(11:16):
starting mid-August off atcollege.
Allison (11:22):
You know it's going to be way too quiet around here.
There's going to be a lot lessgoing on, and I don't do so well
with that.
So I'm already in preparationmode.
And so for the second I feellike pivotal time in my life, I
found myself asking this keyquestion of myself, which is if
(11:47):
you could do anything with yourtime right now.
What is it that is lighting youup inside?
What's making you super excitedthat you don't even have to
think about investing in yourtime and energy and brain space
Because it's already happeninganyway?
The first time was when I did atotal career change from the
(12:09):
technology world and got laidoff from that world Like
everybody else, when thecombubble burst in the early two
thousands and I became atherapist.
Because I asked myself thequestion what do you like doing
that you're already doing anyway?
And I was like I have to talkto people about their
relationships.
(12:30):
I think I need to be a couplescounselor, voila.
And this time too, I'm likewhat am I doing already Some
might say a tad obsessively isthinking about looking forward
to researching and planningtravel.
Liliana (12:49):
Yeah, and travel hacking.
I love it.
I love it Right.
First, of all.
Can we acknowledge, all of usas a whole, that we are becoming
a global entity?
Yes, and therefore traveling isjust becoming a part of we.
Have a new generation thatcannot stop talking about
(13:09):
traveling, and we need it,especially here in the US.
We actually need to stepoutside.
Maria (13:16):
There's a world outside the US there is and it's
gorgeous, and we have so much tolearn from those experiences,
right?
One of my favorite things abouttraveling and being in other
spaces is learning how they dothings, how they live life, how
their systems are working, andthen taking it back home and
(13:37):
fighting the culture that wefind in our society, which is
this you work until you retireand then, if you're lucky, you
get a retirement period whereyou get to live your life.
That is absolute garbagegarbage.
We need to be able and we havelongevity when we are living
(13:58):
life and working to support thelife we are living and not the
other way around.
Liliana (14:03):
Yeah.
Allison (14:04):
Yeah, so I I feel like if I can help other people, if I
can like capitalize on my ownexcitement about traveling the
world, about meeting people fromdifferent cultures, about doing
so in kind of luxury,affordably, if I can teach other
people to do that, and it'slighting me up inside, I'm like.
(14:26):
I'm like checking all kinds ofboxes.
Liliana (14:30):
Yeah, and I think our field needs it right.
They need your voice and theyneed to hear this, because one
there's so many discussions of,first of all within the US, like
how do we travel and work?
Yes, and we can do that astherapists, we can totally do
that.
And then, but even like whenyou're talking about and I love,
(14:54):
because I put energizing whatenergizes me it's really
important for us therapists topause and ask that question
either because we need to changethe niche that we're working
either because we have to changecareers right?
change careers right, or becausewe're going through a different
milestone?
When you share with me aboutyour emptiness and I was like
(15:15):
girl, first of all let me tellyou they start calling you every
day and you're like why are youcalling me?
My relationship with you wasuntil 18.
Stop it.
Maria (15:29):
She doesn't mean it.
Listeners who don't know her.
We know we know, but, you know,I think it is important that
we're focusing on what lights usup and we're inviting
clinicians to pause and ask am Idoing things that light me up?
If not, I need to find themyeah, and then two, let's think
big.
(15:50):
Why not?
If you want to travel globally,why not find someone like
yourself, allison, who can helpthem learn how to make that a
reality?
Yes, it is a reality, and Ithink there's a lot of messages
out there that you know that's aluxury and that's a privilege
and that's a thing.
And, yes, we understandtraveling is expensive.
It's not always easy, and whatyou're sharing is there are ways
(16:15):
to do it affordably.
Liliana (16:18):
That's right, Possibly right, Like there are systems in
place in order for us to do so.
You're just naming.
You know a couple of for ustoday, but I'm like how many of
you who are listening out thereyou're like wait a minute?
I should call Allison and likepick her brain more in regards
to this.
Maria (16:35):
I mean spending a week in the Turks area doing telehealth
for work sounds ideal.
Allison (16:59):
Yes, blah, but I think burnout prevention is also equal
parts finding what's lightingyou up and following that,
riding that wave and reallylistening to yourself and giving
yourself permission to try newthings, to not be defined by one
box, only permanently.
You know I'm a, this, I'm athat you know, allowing yourself
(17:22):
that creativity and latitude topivot and take on a new thing,
like I just decided I'm going to.
I'm going to start this travelcoaching business geared towards
therapists, because we alldeserve a break.
Maria (17:36):
They do deserve luxury and pampering.
And if you've listened to ustalk about self-care, liliana
and I have a big mountain.
We stand on around self-care.
It isn't just stop doing thesethings right, and it's not just
rest, which is absolutelyimportant, but it's how are you
filling up your cup?
Because burnout happens formany different reasons, but one
(17:59):
of them is our cup is empty andwe're not actively filling up
our cup and taking care ofourselves.
That leads to burnout, inaddition to the systems that we
work in and all of those thingsthat leads to burnout, in
addition to the systems that wework in and all of those things.
But I think that that's animportant message that you're
sharing today is like whatlights you up and following that
is actually that self-care,that burnout prevention.
Liliana (18:22):
And the question, because I wish that every
listener will be able to seeAllison's face.
But when she says, what can you, if you can do anything right,
like that idea of like, can yoube curious about you?
You went to this career rightLike to fulfill this need that
(18:43):
you had, that you wanted to dothat, you wanted to pay it
forward, and then at some point,it is really helpful to pause
and then ask the question allover again.
I love the message of yourparents and I love the way that
you are honoring your dad inregards to you only have one
(19:03):
life, yeah yeah, I can imagineallison because you shared your.
Maria (19:08):
You own a group practice.
I also own a group practice andI can just imagine the impact
you're having on your team bydoing this for yourself and
setting this as an example,making this a reality and a
possibility for them.
I mean, you've got to, I've gotto imagine your team is
benefiting from this as well.
Allison (19:30):
Yeah, yeah, I think.
So, I think, and it's such anessential part of supervision
too, because I say all the timeto my supervisees this is a
marathon, not a sprint.
Maria (19:42):
Yeah, oh, amen.
Allison (19:46):
Go right.
The goal is to not like burnyou out and grind you into the
ground.
It's about creating a life thatfeels abundant, where there's
spaciousness, where you can becreative about what lights you
up and what interests you, oreven structurally creative.
(20:07):
We're constantly tinkering withour team schedules and we're
really closely monitoring thingslike how are you doing holding
boundaries with your clientsaround your schedule so that
it's not burning you out right?
So that you are getting paidfor the time that you make
yourself available to yourclients, so that you're not
(20:28):
saying yes to that lastappointment at the end of the
day and like putting in aridiculously long day that no
human should have to endure.
I mean, all those things arereally important messages.
Yeah, I'm really excited aboutone of my upcoming home
exchanges.
It's a first time for us andit's only only possible thanks
(20:51):
to empty nest hood, or freebirding, as my girlfriend called
it.
We are doing a month longexchange.
In April.
We are going to Palm Springs.
We're staying in this verygroovy mid-century modern place
with a pool, and we're going toget to explore all the parks
(21:12):
around there.
You know, joshua tree's not toofar, zion's on the way, um, and
then it's also um a concertthere, so we might, you know,
get a big concert season.
We might be the oldest peoplethere, but whatever that doesn't
matter.
Liliana (21:30):
When you're in the zone , you don't care about around
you.
You care about, like, what'shappening for you.
So that's right to you, that'sright.
Maria (21:38):
I love this and I think I think this is important for for
everybody clinicians, but Ithink there's a special message
here for supervisors and thosethat hold responsibility of
others group practice ownersbecause we do we hold so so much
that it can be easy to stay inthe cyclone of work and
(21:59):
responsibility and all of that.
So I think it's really I thinkit's really important for
everyone to hear this, but Ithink there's a special spot in
even in your message aboutpeople who are taking care of
other people, who are takingcare of other people who are
taking care of other peopleright, that ripple effect, um,
and the importance of takingcare of the human living the
life.
Liliana (22:19):
Yeah, yeah, and also naming right that this is not
the experience of everytherapist working in an agency.
Allison (22:27):
So yeah, I'm gonna name that.
Liliana (22:28):
So you are the exception to the rule.
Let's also name that.
But the idea that you'reinviting therapists to be
curious, to ask these questionsin regards to if you can do
anything or what energizes you,even the introduction of we only
have one life, we know it, wedisregard it quite often unless
(22:49):
we have an experience thatshapes us and we're like, yeah,
we can do this right.
I love when you said, like wecan be replaced.
You just shared, like when youpivot careers, like we can be
replaced.
The things that we cannotreplace is how we view life, how
we enjoy life and who we do itwith.
Allison (23:09):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely yeah, which I'm so
excited to be able to, you know,go on this journey with my
husband and it's going tostretch us and it's going to
grow us.
My travel mishaps that you bothknow about last week, for
example, you know, on the onehand, my husband helped me deal
(23:32):
with.
It was a turned into a 24 hourtravel day.
That was supposed to be just ashort one, but he's on the you
know my secure attachmentfigures on the phone finding me
a hotel room that I ended up notbeing able to use because there
was no power.
But you know, also, we're.
It's like a new opportunity toget to know each other as a
(23:55):
couple, like, oh, what's yourcomfort zone and when do you
start to get cold feet?
And you know I'm having to workwith him also on setting his
own boundaries at work.
Right, they have one of thoseum, they're actually evil
unlimited time off policies.
(24:16):
Have you heard of theseunlimited time off?
The research shows people takeless less time.
Liliana (24:25):
Yeah, I can see it.
Allison (24:27):
Yeah, I think we're, we're a living proof.
So he, you know he's having towork on his own emotions, his
own anxieties about what willthey think and is it too much?
And you know, am I going to getin trouble, even though you
know he's been at his companyforever and ever and ever, and
(24:47):
he's, you know, everyone knowshim and highly regards him and
he's fine, but nonetheless, Ithink it's that knee jerk like,
can I do?
Maria (24:56):
it.
Well, because it's not the normright, it's not the typical,
it's not the box right, it's notthe expectation of a nine to
five be at the office.
I was actually just doingconsultation with someone who
left the job during the COVID.
When COVID, you know, everyonewas returning to the office and
they were told you need to cometo the office.
So she returned to the officeand her computer didn't work,
(25:19):
like her office computer didn'twork.
So she was like, well, I'mgoing to go home then and I can
do my work from home.
And they're like no, you're inthe office, you need to sit here
.
And she sat there for six hourswith a non workingworking
computer because she couldn't gohome.
And she immediately went homeand started looking for a new
job Right, because I thinkthat's one of the messages is
(25:40):
that you know, some of thethings that came out of the
pandemic were the flexibilityand telehealth and the
importance of taking care of thepractitioner themselves.
Telehealth is an option for themajority and then we can't
speak for all states, but forthe majority of states it's a
protected measure.
(26:00):
Because of the pandemic itbecame really ingrained that we
don't need to stop takingadvantage of that.
You can work just aseffectively from Palm Springs as
you can from your office atDenver as you can from your you
know living room.
If you have to right Like.
We've learned that and that's askill we have, that I think
(26:21):
you're asking people tocelebrate it and highlight it
and lean into it.
Liliana (26:27):
And then also right, like the invitation for agencies
to consult with you in regardsto what you know on your own
experience and what you'relearning from your husband.
Yes, right, like in how we canhelp agencies treat their
employees or contractor ashumans.
Yeah, right, because we want toinvest in them so that they can
(26:48):
keep giving us.
Yeah, versus utilizing them,like the example that Maria just
used.
Where people are like I'm out,I can be replaced any given
second.
I'm not appreciated for my gift.
Allison (27:02):
Yeah.
Liliana (27:03):
And therefore, what's the point when we go back to?
If there's anything I can do,is this what I want to be doing?
Allison (27:10):
Yeah, yeah, one of the things I'm really proud of as a
small business owner and a groupcounseling practice owner is
that we do have a paid time offpolicy, which is I mean, that's
me I created that Allisondecided I wanted to be able to
give this to the employees thatI work with so that they could
enjoy some time off and not haveto worry so much about the and
(27:35):
you know like that's a big dealas a small business owner.
I was going to say fuck this.
Liliana (27:43):
How many of our listeners are going to be
calling like Alison, like do youhave job openings?
Maria (27:49):
Absolutely, or feel empowered to go to their
practice owner and go hey, Iwant you to listen to this
episode.
I want to talk about some ofthese options because I don't
want to go into burnout, I don't, you know.
And if we can, as grouppractice owners, we can talk
about this for a minute, like ifwe can set up a system that
supports that, like that'sburnout prevention, right, when
(28:11):
we're, when we're supportingwellness and wholeness of the
people who are working with us,right?
Like I think that that's soimportant when we do big
celebrations.
I couldn't decide what.
You know, everyone's gift isdifferent, right, but for some,
traveling is their self-careright, but for some, traveling
is their self care right and sobeing able to support that and
(28:33):
maybe you know, and then linkthem with you, like you know,
they've got the time and they'vegot some funds.
Like how do you stretch that to, to, to really put the value in
, um, so that it's, it'srejuvenating.
Allison (28:50):
Well, yeah, and I, I mean, my eyes have just been
opened so wide to the world ofaffordable travel using travel
hacking.
Yeah, I don't think I mentionedthe detail that these two trips
to Europe and back again, wepaid for those all in points.
Yeah, so they're basically free.
(29:12):
I mean, there is, of course,there's costs of travel and, as
you named, liliana, it'simportant to recognize even the
privilege within that.
Even though you're only payingtaxes on something, it's still a
cost.
And, of course, once you getthere, there, you know you're
going to want to go and do andsee and eat, want to go and do
(29:35):
and see and eat.
So all of those things you knoware definitely important to
recognize the privilege inherentin being able to do that.
And also, you know, if youcompare that the cash cost
versus using points and maybeeven layering in a free home
exchange, the amount of justreally high quality, amazing
(29:57):
travel that you can do can justgrow exponentially.
You know just a few highlightsfrom my home exchanging
experiences.
I am in the fall.
In November, this past November, I got to go to a beautiful,
beautiful, beautiful beach housein the panhandle of Florida
(30:17):
with my college girlfriends.
It was a six bedroom suitehouse.
So each of us had our ownbedroom and our own bathroom,
right on the beach, and it waswarm, so amazing.
Liliana (30:33):
By the way, maria, I follow Alison on Instagram and,
like when I see her picture, Iwas like God damn it.
That's the life that I want totry for.
Maria (30:40):
Well, I think that's the message.
Right Like do it now.
Liliana (30:44):
Yeah.
Maria (30:48):
Do it now.
Yeah, do it now.
You know, learn from Allison,do your research, stand up, put
those boundaries down with workif you need to find a place that
that supports you in this way,but do it now, don't wait.
That idea that there's a timewhere we get to stop working and
just live in a retirement worldthat's a that's a fantasy.
That's a time where we get tostop working and just live in a
retirement world that's afantasy.
That's a false fantasy.
I don't even want it.
(31:08):
I want it now, right, like Iwant to live that life now when
I enjoy it.
Liliana (31:14):
Right Like there's so many stories, not only your dad
I had an aunt who, like, wasalways saving money and
unfortunately she passed away,something that we did not expect
, it All the signs, so, likeeverything that she's safe.
She didn't get to enjoy, rightLike Maria and I talk about and
we're very vocal about ourmedical issues and we cannot
(31:36):
just travel just because, like,we need to plan around doctor's
appointments and all thesethings now to travel.
So it's different.
But the idea of and how manymemes have we seen online of
people like traveling to europeand then falling asleep, um,
because they couldn't, theydidn't have this anymore in
order to enjoy discussing.
(31:57):
So the idea is can we let go ofthe fantasy that it was back um?
You know, I was trying toremember if it was the
industrialized um era where wewere thought like if you're
loyal and if you work hardenough, you have job security
and then you will have the rolexwatch yeah yeah, as the proof
(32:20):
that you work really hard, thatyou earn and then you can retire
.
Those times don't exist anymore.
We're living longer.
We don't have loyalty anywherein regards to job security.
The world is evolving so fastthat can we change the mindset
and can we enjoy today Exactly,and I think even you know the
(32:45):
idea.
Allison (32:47):
I can talk a big game.
So this is this is definitelyAllison's work still, still to
be worked.
I can talk a big game about,like someday retirement and I
want to go and do, and also Ihave anxiety about it too,
because what am I going to dowith myself?
Like I'm not a good sitteraround her and also I'm a huge
(33:12):
extrovert.
I'm like two E, two X, twotimes extroversion.
So I, you know, I can't go andbe in places where I don't know
anyone other than my husband,much as I love him and much as
he is my favorite companion.
You know I have, I have needs,um, so I really am enjoying the
(33:32):
idea of, like, how can I getcreative?
So it's not just like work modeand vacation mode.
That's where experimenting with,like, oh, what's it feel like
to go to Palm Springs for amonth and we're going to have my
mom come with me for part of itand we're going to maybe have
some friends come and visit.
And you know, um, if we gosomewhere tropical and warm, you
(33:57):
know we can work our normaljobs during the day.
Both of us have the ability towork remotely, which is
wonderful and amazing.
And also, you know, at fiveo'clock we can go take a walk on
a beach somewhere.
Yeah, for a few weeks we can dothat, and our weekends can be
(34:18):
all about going to exploringhere and there.
You know, I also think to yourpoint, liliana, about like.
You know, I also think to yourpoint, liliana, about like, what
do we have the energy for intravel?
I think that that travelhacking, particularly home
exchanging, kind of flips thaton its head and it is way more
(34:41):
amenable to a slow travel.
Liliana (34:43):
Yeah.
Allison (34:44):
If you've heard that phrase before.
Like slow travel, I even usechat TPT to help me plan my trip
to Portugal this fall, as youdo, and I was like, give me the
slow travel itinerary.
I don't want to do more thanone thing a day.
Yeah, I want to incorporatesome yoga or hike.
I want to go to a toprestaurant, like you know, once
(35:07):
a week or something like that.
It doesn't have to be.
You know this idea that, okay,we're going to Portugal and I'm
going to die if I don't see allthe things.
Liliana (35:15):
And then I'm going to come back, so Right, absolutely.
Maria (35:20):
That's when we hear those people come back to me the
vacation from their vacationbecause they, they, they
overbooked, they tried to cramit all in and if you're not
enjoying that, there are otheroptions.
Liliana (35:31):
Yeah, I love that in all of this right is the idea
which the three of us for all ofyou listeners, that three of us
are like, smiling ear to ear,energized.
We're like wait what?
Consultation with Allison, butthe idea of like, and in all of
(35:53):
this we're naming our fieldburnout how people are living.
I love that.
In your agency, as yousupervise, you ask the question
what are the boundaries thatneed to be in place?
Because, as a human, you cannotbe on call 24-7.
Yeah, none of us should.
And therefore like can we?
How do we model thoseboundaries to your clients so
that your clients can benefitfrom those boundaries as well?
(36:14):
Like, it's everything thatyou're discussing today that is
so beautiful and I truly needour colleagues need to hear this
.
Allison (36:24):
Thank you, thank this, thank you, thank you.
Maria (36:28):
Thank you.
Thank you for thinking outsideof the box.
And you know, I think it'sindividuals like you, who
problem solve, who look at thebox and go yeah, I can do that
differently.
Let me figure out a way thatfits better.
I mean, this sounds lessstressful.
This home exchange is like it's.
It's almost like you have tosay no to the vacation instead
(36:50):
of having to say yes and takingthe plan right Like it's.
You have you flipped it on itshead.
It's like the vacation is there, it's asking you and you have
to tell it no, and I thinkthat's a much harder, much
harder thing to say no to, right, yeah, then, oh well, I don't
know if I can take the time and,uh, you know I have to
(37:10):
rearrange my schedule.
Yes and yeah, and you can do ittoday, you can do it right now,
yeah, yeah.
I love it.
Liliana (37:17):
I feel like I keep going on and on and I am mindful
um of time, um, and so I'mthinking we're gonna have to
invite Maria Wright Allison back.
Maria (37:27):
Oh, I'd love to.
I was going to warn her beforewe started recording.
I was like you know, this isone of a few right.
Liliana (37:35):
But in the meantime, for all of you who are listening
and are so energized andcurious about, we're going to
include Allison's information sothat you can reach out, pay for
her time, do not be asking foranything.
She deserves to be paid.
Remember boundaries.
We're modeling and we're namingit so that you can call for a
(37:58):
consultation, either becauseyou're a therapist thinking
outside the box or because youtake this to your agency and
you're like can we think aboutways of implementing this?
Because I think it will benefitall of us, for me being
energized, for us right to beasking if we can do anything,
(38:27):
what we want to be doing and Iwas going to ask, allison, if
you have one thing, one takeaway, maybe one question to pose to
those.
Allison (38:41):
Ask yourself if there is one thing that I could be
doing with myself and my giftsand my mental space and the
energy and the hours that I havein a day.
What am I daydreaming about?
What am I talking about in myspare time, what am I Googling?
(39:01):
And listen to that, listen tothat inner wisdom, because it
really is.
Liliana (39:15):
It's not only a source of joy, but I think it's a
source of burnout prevention.
To listen to that, yeah, I'm soglad I have.
Maria (39:20):
We're so glad you did and you're sharing with us, so
thank you for sharing that today.
Thank you, allison.
Until next time, guys.
Okay, have a great day, you two.
Welcome back, listeners, to another episode.
I am your co-host, Maria Diego,and I'm joined by my bestie,
that's me I think Right, allison, it's me.
Liliana (00:13):
That's me, liliana Baylon, and we're here with a
special guest.
We're here with Allison.
Allison, how would you like topresent to our listeners?
Allison (00:24):
Well, hello, thank you for having me.
So my name is Allison Rimlandand I'm I own a group practice
here in the Denver area.
We specialize in relationshiptherapy and I have a wonderful,
wonderful team of grad studentsall the way up to very seasoned
(00:45):
clinicians.
So it's a fantastic group ofpeople and I'm just so honored
to get to work with them everyday.
I'm also a licensedprofessional counselor and a
certified emotionally focusedtherapy supervisor, so I enjoy
doing yeah, I do supervisionoutside my practice as well as
(01:08):
in my practice.
I feel like I wear an unlimitednumber of hats pretty much
every day.
I'm business owner, I'm mom,I'm wife, I'm friend, I'm a
daughter, I'm supervisor, I'maccountant all of those hats all
(01:29):
the time.
Maria (01:31):
That's a lot of decision making hats.
That's a lot of decision makinghats.
Yes.
Liliana (01:36):
Yeah, so before we introduce the topic, I was just
laughing because I was thinkingfor all of you therapists who
are listening, coming in andyou're like, I want to be a
therapist.
Allison is talking about allthe roles that you end up doing
without getting proper trainingfor it.
Allison (01:55):
Yes, right, we all know very well how ill-equipped we
are out of most graduateprograms for the business side
of running a therapy practice.
And then if you take on theadditional responsibility of a
group practice and you know allthese people that are on my team
, their, their graduate degreesand their livelihoods are on my
(02:17):
shoulders to take care of.
So, um yeah, it's a hugeresponsibility.
Maria (02:21):
I love that.
I love that, and it kind ofleads into what we're hoping to
chat about today, right, yes,yeah.
Allison (02:29):
Yeah, so my inspiration for today actually came about
in in in sharing my excitingnews with Liliana the other day,
and basically I was justreflecting on how, especially as
a supervisor, when you'resupporting clinicians how it's
(02:51):
almost double or more the loadof working with clients right,
because I continue to have myown clients and, of course, I
carry them in my heart and thinkabout them, but then all of the
people that I'm supervisinghave clients and I'm impacted by
those stories.
Right, it's like tertiarytrauma, sometimes with really,
(03:13):
really heavy stuff.
And then, because we're allhuman beings, as therapists, we
all have our own stuff too ourown life difficulties.
Stuff, too, our own lifedifficulties.
So, really, my exciting newdevelopment came out of my own
experience.
So Liliana and I might get alittle emotional talking about
(03:35):
this, but Liliana was one of thepeople who came in and stood by
my side in 2022 when I lost mydad, and you know I needed to
take time off because he gotsick and he died very, very
suddenly.
It was five weeks from when hegot sick to when he died, so it
(03:56):
was incredibly fast andtraumatic in and of itself, and
I needed this circle to wraparound me and support me and my
supervisees, because we stillhad to keep the lights on, we
still had to have sessionshappening, we still had to have
clients being supported in theirlife difficulties, and so
(04:20):
Liliana was one of the peoplethat generously stepped in and
found extra time in her scheduleto see some of my supervisees
who needed to be seen duringthat time.
So thank you again, liliana.
But my parents, I think, gaveme a huge gift, which is they
(04:40):
prioritized throughout theiralmost 60 year marriage um
traveling together and makingthe time to create special
memories.
So my father died in um the endof September 2022, and they
were in Normandy in August.
He was so sick Right, um, and sohe got to go on this bucket
(05:04):
list trip that was reallypersonally meaningful to him as
a veteran to go and, um, youknow they all those years had
had quite good health.
Um, of course they had theirups and downs and seasons where
(05:32):
things weren't so great, but, um, I think they just really
instilled in me this value ofyou know you only have one life
and you don't know when you'renot going to be able to take
advantage of it.
So people who you know work andwork and work and work and work
for decades on end and are kindof imagining this time, when I
(05:56):
retire, you might not get that,you might not get that in good
health.
And some travel is, you know,physical takes a lot out of us.
So, yeah, I think it all hasjust kind of come full circle
with feeling inspired to doright by my mom and dad and to
(06:19):
really take advantage of thisone precious life I've been
given and see what I can make ofit, and along the way I learned
about travel hacking.
Maria (06:30):
Travel hacking.
Travel hacking.
Liliana (06:35):
So can you tell us what travel hacking is so?
Allison (06:38):
travel.
Hacking can be a variety ofthings, but it's basically
taking the concept of travelingand thinking about creative ways
that you can travel affordablyand that fits into your season
of life or your lifestyle, buttaking advantage of some of the
(07:03):
methods out there that enablepeople to travel more affordably
.
So the two that I use are homeexchanging.
So I own a home in themountains it's a second home
with my husband and we have thathome listed on home exchange.
So we have done 30 plus homeexchanges in different parts of
(07:29):
the world and so essentially westay for free.
Maria (07:33):
Is this like I'm picturing the movie the Holiday?
Is this like where you justswap houses?
Exactly, exactly, yeah, exactly, exactly, yeah.
You can't see my face, but youcan hear it in my voice.
I am sure that is amazing.
Allison (07:59):
Yes, yes.
So just today just todayactually I got two home exchange
requests from other members onthe platform that we are part of
, which is homeexchangecom.
One is a family in Hawaii thatwants to exchange with us, and
another is a family that has ahouse in Turks and Caicos.
Maria (08:13):
What?
Yes, please, oh my gosh.
So in this exchange, you're nothaving to pay for lodging,
which can be a very expensivepart of traveling.
Allison (08:26):
Exactly.
Maria (08:27):
Exactly Okay, all right, so we've got home exchange.
Allison (08:33):
I've got home exchange.
And then the second big onethat I've been learning about is
the world of credit card points.
World of credit card points.
Okay, so my dear husband, whois quite the trooper, and I have
um he sometimes reluctantlyembarked on this world of credit
(08:56):
card points and miles, and wenow, between the two of us,
since, I would say last February, I think, with our very first
card, we've opened up about 10cards in total.
Okay, we're spending just asresponsibly as we normally would
, and we have now booked twoupcoming international trips
(09:23):
using points for our flights.
So these are business classflights.
So lie flat, sleep across theAtlantic, and we'll be going to
Portugal this fall and Greecenext spring.
Maria (09:43):
But you are also speaking to two people who do enjoy
traveling right so if you don'tenjoy traveling, this may not be
for you.
What I'm also hearing is it's inline with a conversation I was
having with someone the otherday about you know, I had the
privilege of growing up.
My formative years wereactually in Germany.
(10:04):
My dad was civil service forthe military and we were talking
.
I was talking recently with afriend about how lifestyles are
just so different outside of ourcountry.
Yes, and one of the biggestdifferences is that outside of
our country, people work as theylive their life.
Allison (10:22):
Yes.
Maria (10:23):
Whereas we work for this idea of a time where we get to
live our life after work.
Allison (10:28):
Yeah.
Maria (10:29):
Right and what you're what you're talking about here
is enjoying the time as we haveit, taken advantage and, and
living life while working, andyou're finding hacks to do it in
a way that's affordable for youand you're getting to see the
world, and for me, traveling andseeing the world and having
(10:54):
these- experiences I wanted toshare today, which is recently
I've just been feeling as Ianticipate empty nesting
(11:16):
starting mid-August off atcollege.
Allison (11:22):
You know it's going to be way too quiet around here.
There's going to be a lot lessgoing on, and I don't do so well
with that.
So I'm already in preparationmode.
And so for the second I feellike pivotal time in my life, I
found myself asking this keyquestion of myself, which is if
(11:47):
you could do anything with yourtime right now.
What is it that is lighting youup inside?
What's making you super excitedthat you don't even have to
think about investing in yourtime and energy and brain space
Because it's already happeninganyway?
The first time was when I did atotal career change from the
(12:09):
technology world and got laidoff from that world Like
everybody else, when thecombubble burst in the early two
thousands and I became atherapist.
Because I asked myself thequestion what do you like doing
that you're already doing anyway?
And I was like I have to talkto people about their
relationships.
(12:30):
I think I need to be a couplescounselor, voila.
And this time too, I'm likewhat am I doing already Some
might say a tad obsessively isthinking about looking forward
to researching and planningtravel.
Liliana (12:49):
Yeah, and travel hacking.
I love it.
I love it Right.
First, of all.
Can we acknowledge, all of usas a whole, that we are becoming
a global entity?
Yes, and therefore traveling isjust becoming a part of we.
Have a new generation thatcannot stop talking about
(13:09):
traveling, and we need it,especially here in the US.
We actually need to stepoutside.
Maria (13:16):
There's a world outside the US there is and it's
gorgeous, and we have so much tolearn from those experiences,
right?
One of my favorite things abouttraveling and being in other
spaces is learning how they dothings, how they live life, how
their systems are working, andthen taking it back home and
(13:37):
fighting the culture that wefind in our society, which is
this you work until you retireand then, if you're lucky, you
get a retirement period whereyou get to live your life.
That is absolute garbagegarbage.
We need to be able and we havelongevity when we are living
(13:58):
life and working to support thelife we are living and not the
other way around.
Liliana (14:03):
Yeah.
Allison (14:04):
Yeah, so I I feel like if I can help other people, if I
can like capitalize on my ownexcitement about traveling the
world, about meeting people fromdifferent cultures, about doing
so in kind of luxury,affordably, if I can teach other
people to do that, and it'slighting me up inside, I'm like.
(14:26):
I'm like checking all kinds ofboxes.
Liliana (14:30):
Yeah, and I think our field needs it right.
They need your voice and theyneed to hear this, because one
there's so many discussions of,first of all within the US, like
how do we travel and work?
Yes, and we can do that astherapists, we can totally do
that.
And then, but even like whenyou're talking about and I love,
(14:54):
because I put energizing whatenergizes me it's really
important for us therapists topause and ask that question
either because we need to changethe niche that we're working
either because we have to changecareers right?
change careers right, or becausewe're going through a different
milestone?
When you share with me aboutyour emptiness and I was like
(15:15):
girl, first of all let me tellyou they start calling you every
day and you're like why are youcalling me?
My relationship with you wasuntil 18.
Stop it.
Maria (15:29):
She doesn't mean it.
Listeners who don't know her.
We know we know, but, you know,I think it is important that
we're focusing on what lights usup and we're inviting
clinicians to pause and ask am Idoing things that light me up?
If not, I need to find themyeah, and then two, let's think
big.
(15:50):
Why not?
If you want to travel globally,why not find someone like
yourself, allison, who can helpthem learn how to make that a
reality?
Yes, it is a reality, and Ithink there's a lot of messages
out there that you know that's aluxury and that's a privilege
and that's a thing.
And, yes, we understandtraveling is expensive.
It's not always easy, and whatyou're sharing is there are ways
(16:15):
to do it affordably.
Liliana (16:18):
That's right, Possibly right, Like there are systems in
place in order for us to do so.
You're just naming.
You know a couple of for ustoday, but I'm like how many of
you who are listening out thereyou're like wait a minute?
I should call Allison and likepick her brain more in regards
to this.
Maria (16:35):
I mean spending a week in the Turks area doing telehealth
for work sounds ideal.
Allison (16:59):
Yes, blah, but I think burnout prevention is also equal
parts finding what's lightingyou up and following that,
riding that wave and reallylistening to yourself and giving
yourself permission to try newthings, to not be defined by one
box, only permanently.
You know I'm a, this, I'm athat you know, allowing yourself
(17:22):
that creativity and latitude topivot and take on a new thing,
like I just decided I'm going to.
I'm going to start this travelcoaching business geared towards
therapists, because we alldeserve a break.
Maria (17:36):
They do deserve luxury and pampering.
And if you've listened to ustalk about self-care, liliana
and I have a big mountain.
We stand on around self-care.
It isn't just stop doing thesethings right, and it's not just
rest, which is absolutelyimportant, but it's how are you
filling up your cup?
Because burnout happens formany different reasons, but one
(17:59):
of them is our cup is empty andwe're not actively filling up
our cup and taking care ofourselves.
That leads to burnout, inaddition to the systems that we
work in and all of those thingsthat leads to burnout, in
addition to the systems that wework in and all of those things.
But I think that that's animportant message that you're
sharing today is like whatlights you up and following that
is actually that self-care,that burnout prevention.
Liliana (18:22):
And the question, because I wish that every
listener will be able to seeAllison's face.
But when she says, what can you, if you can do anything right,
like that idea of like, can yoube curious about you?
You went to this career rightLike to fulfill this need that
(18:43):
you had, that you wanted to dothat, you wanted to pay it
forward, and then at some point,it is really helpful to pause
and then ask the question allover again.
I love the message of yourparents and I love the way that
you are honoring your dad inregards to you only have one
(19:03):
life, yeah yeah, I can imagineallison because you shared your.
Maria (19:08):
You own a group practice.
I also own a group practice andI can just imagine the impact
you're having on your team bydoing this for yourself and
setting this as an example,making this a reality and a
possibility for them.
I mean, you've got to, I've gotto imagine your team is
benefiting from this as well.
Allison (19:30):
Yeah, yeah, I think.
So, I think, and it's such anessential part of supervision
too, because I say all the timeto my supervisees this is a
marathon, not a sprint.
Maria (19:42):
Yeah, oh, amen.
Allison (19:46):
Go right.
The goal is to not like burnyou out and grind you into the
ground.
It's about creating a life thatfeels abundant, where there's
spaciousness, where you can becreative about what lights you
up and what interests you, oreven structurally creative.
(20:07):
We're constantly tinkering withour team schedules and we're
really closely monitoring thingslike how are you doing holding
boundaries with your clientsaround your schedule so that
it's not burning you out right?
So that you are getting paidfor the time that you make
yourself available to yourclients, so that you're not
(20:28):
saying yes to that lastappointment at the end of the
day and like putting in aridiculously long day that no
human should have to endure.
I mean, all those things arereally important messages.
Yeah, I'm really excited aboutone of my upcoming home
exchanges.
It's a first time for us andit's only only possible thanks
(20:51):
to empty nest hood, or freebirding, as my girlfriend called
it.
We are doing a month longexchange.
In April.
We are going to Palm Springs.
We're staying in this verygroovy mid-century modern place
with a pool, and we're going toget to explore all the parks
(21:12):
around there.
You know, joshua tree's not toofar, zion's on the way, um, and
then it's also um a concertthere, so we might, you know,
get a big concert season.
We might be the oldest peoplethere, but whatever that doesn't
matter.
Liliana (21:30):
When you're in the zone , you don't care about around
you.
You care about, like, what'shappening for you.
So that's right to you, that'sright.
Maria (21:38):
I love this and I think I think this is important for for
everybody clinicians, but Ithink there's a special message
here for supervisors and thosethat hold responsibility of
others group practice ownersbecause we do we hold so so much
that it can be easy to stay inthe cyclone of work and
(21:59):
responsibility and all of that.
So I think it's really I thinkit's really important for
everyone to hear this, but Ithink there's a special spot in
even in your message aboutpeople who are taking care of
other people, who are takingcare of other people who are
taking care of other peopleright, that ripple effect, um,
and the importance of takingcare of the human living the
life.
Liliana (22:19):
Yeah, yeah, and also naming right that this is not
the experience of everytherapist working in an agency.
Allison (22:27):
So yeah, I'm gonna name that.
Liliana (22:28):
So you are the exception to the rule.
Let's also name that.
But the idea that you'reinviting therapists to be
curious, to ask these questionsin regards to if you can do
anything or what energizes you,even the introduction of we only
have one life, we know it, wedisregard it quite often unless
(22:49):
we have an experience thatshapes us and we're like, yeah,
we can do this right.
I love when you said, like wecan be replaced.
You just shared, like when youpivot careers, like we can be
replaced.
The things that we cannotreplace is how we view life, how
we enjoy life and who we do itwith.
Allison (23:09):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely yeah, which I'm so
excited to be able to, you know,go on this journey with my
husband and it's going tostretch us and it's going to
grow us.
My travel mishaps that you bothknow about last week, for
example, you know, on the onehand, my husband helped me deal
(23:32):
with.
It was a turned into a 24 hourtravel day.
That was supposed to be just ashort one, but he's on the you
know my secure attachmentfigures on the phone finding me
a hotel room that I ended up notbeing able to use because there
was no power.
But you know, also, we're.
It's like a new opportunity toget to know each other as a
(23:55):
couple, like, oh, what's yourcomfort zone and when do you
start to get cold feet?
And you know I'm having to workwith him also on setting his
own boundaries at work.
Right, they have one of thoseum, they're actually evil
unlimited time off policies.
(24:16):
Have you heard of theseunlimited time off?
The research shows people takeless less time.
Liliana (24:25):
Yeah, I can see it.
Allison (24:27):
Yeah, I think we're, we're a living proof.
So he, you know he's having towork on his own emotions, his
own anxieties about what willthey think and is it too much?
And you know, am I going to getin trouble, even though you
know he's been at his companyforever and ever and ever, and
(24:47):
he's, you know, everyone knowshim and highly regards him and
he's fine, but nonetheless, Ithink it's that knee jerk like,
can I do?
Maria (24:56):
it.
Well, because it's not the normright, it's not the typical,
it's not the box right, it's notthe expectation of a nine to
five be at the office.
I was actually just doingconsultation with someone who
left the job during the COVID.
When COVID, you know, everyonewas returning to the office and
they were told you need to cometo the office.
So she returned to the officeand her computer didn't work,
(25:19):
like her office computer didn'twork.
So she was like, well, I'mgoing to go home then and I can
do my work from home.
And they're like no, you're inthe office, you need to sit here
.
And she sat there for six hourswith a non workingworking
computer because she couldn't gohome.
And she immediately went homeand started looking for a new
job Right, because I thinkthat's one of the messages is
(25:40):
that you know, some of thethings that came out of the
pandemic were the flexibilityand telehealth and the
importance of taking care of thepractitioner themselves.
Telehealth is an option for themajority and then we can't
speak for all states, but forthe majority of states it's a
protected measure.
(26:00):
Because of the pandemic itbecame really ingrained that we
don't need to stop takingadvantage of that.
You can work just aseffectively from Palm Springs as
you can from your office atDenver as you can from your you
know living room.
If you have to right Like.
We've learned that and that's askill we have, that I think
(26:21):
you're asking people tocelebrate it and highlight it
and lean into it.
Liliana (26:27):
And then also right, like the invitation for agencies
to consult with you in regardsto what you know on your own
experience and what you'relearning from your husband.
Yes, right, like in how we canhelp agencies treat their
employees or contractor ashumans.
Yeah, right, because we want toinvest in them so that they can
(26:48):
keep giving us.
Yeah, versus utilizing them,like the example that Maria just
used.
Where people are like I'm out,I can be replaced any given
second.
I'm not appreciated for my gift.
Allison (27:02):
Yeah.
Liliana (27:03):
And therefore, what's the point when we go back to?
If there's anything I can do,is this what I want to be doing?
Allison (27:10):
Yeah, yeah, one of the things I'm really proud of as a
small business owner and a groupcounseling practice owner is
that we do have a paid time offpolicy, which is I mean, that's
me I created that Allisondecided I wanted to be able to
give this to the employees thatI work with so that they could
enjoy some time off and not haveto worry so much about the and
(27:35):
you know like that's a big dealas a small business owner.
I was going to say fuck this.
Liliana (27:43):
How many of our listeners are going to be
calling like Alison, like do youhave job openings?
Maria (27:49):
Absolutely, or feel empowered to go to their
practice owner and go hey, Iwant you to listen to this
episode.
I want to talk about some ofthese options because I don't
want to go into burnout, I don't, you know.
And if we can, as grouppractice owners, we can talk
about this for a minute, like ifwe can set up a system that
supports that, like that'sburnout prevention, right, when
(28:11):
we're, when we're supportingwellness and wholeness of the
people who are working with us,right?
Like I think that that's soimportant when we do big
celebrations.
I couldn't decide what.
You know, everyone's gift isdifferent, right, but for some,
traveling is their self-careright, but for some, traveling
is their self care right and sobeing able to support that and
(28:33):
maybe you know, and then linkthem with you, like you know,
they've got the time and they'vegot some funds.
Like how do you stretch that to, to, to really put the value in
, um, so that it's, it'srejuvenating.
Allison (28:50):
Well, yeah, and I, I mean, my eyes have just been
opened so wide to the world ofaffordable travel using travel
hacking.
Yeah, I don't think I mentionedthe detail that these two trips
to Europe and back again, wepaid for those all in points.
Yeah, so they're basically free.
(29:12):
I mean, there is, of course,there's costs of travel and, as
you named, liliana, it'simportant to recognize even the
privilege within that.
Even though you're only payingtaxes on something, it's still a
cost.
And, of course, once you getthere, there, you know you're
going to want to go and do andsee and eat, want to go and do
(29:35):
and see and eat.
So all of those things you knoware definitely important to
recognize the privilege inherentin being able to do that.
And also, you know, if youcompare that the cash cost
versus using points and maybeeven layering in a free home
exchange, the amount of justreally high quality, amazing
(29:57):
travel that you can do can justgrow exponentially.
You know just a few highlightsfrom my home exchanging
experiences.
I am in the fall.
In November, this past November, I got to go to a beautiful,
beautiful, beautiful beach housein the panhandle of Florida
(30:17):
with my college girlfriends.
It was a six bedroom suitehouse.
So each of us had our ownbedroom and our own bathroom,
right on the beach, and it waswarm, so amazing.
Liliana (30:33):
By the way, maria, I follow Alison on Instagram and,
like when I see her picture, Iwas like God damn it.
That's the life that I want totry for.
Maria (30:40):
Well, I think that's the message.
Right Like do it now.
Liliana (30:44):
Yeah.
Maria (30:48):
Do it now.
Yeah, do it now.
You know, learn from Allison,do your research, stand up, put
those boundaries down with workif you need to find a place that
that supports you in this way,but do it now, don't wait.
That idea that there's a timewhere we get to stop working and
just live in a retirement worldthat's a that's a fantasy.
That's a time where we get tostop working and just live in a
retirement world that's afantasy.
That's a false fantasy.
I don't even want it.
(31:08):
I want it now, right, like Iwant to live that life now when
I enjoy it.
Liliana (31:14):
Right Like there's so many stories, not only your dad
I had an aunt who, like, wasalways saving money and
unfortunately she passed away,something that we did not expect
, it All the signs, so, likeeverything that she's safe.
She didn't get to enjoy, rightLike Maria and I talk about and
we're very vocal about ourmedical issues and we cannot
(31:36):
just travel just because, like,we need to plan around doctor's
appointments and all thesethings now to travel.
So it's different.
But the idea of and how manymemes have we seen online of
people like traveling to europeand then falling asleep, um,
because they couldn't, theydidn't have this anymore in
order to enjoy discussing.
(31:57):
So the idea is can we let go ofthe fantasy that it was back um?
You know, I was trying toremember if it was the
industrialized um era where wewere thought like if you're
loyal and if you work hardenough, you have job security
and then you will have the rolexwatch yeah yeah, as the proof
(32:20):
that you work really hard, thatyou earn and then you can retire
.
Those times don't exist anymore.
We're living longer.
We don't have loyalty anywherein regards to job security.
The world is evolving so fastthat can we change the mindset
and can we enjoy today Exactly,and I think even you know the
(32:45):
idea.
Allison (32:47):
I can talk a big game.
So this is this is definitelyAllison's work still, still to
be worked.
I can talk a big game about,like someday retirement and I
want to go and do, and also Ihave anxiety about it too,
because what am I going to dowith myself?
Like I'm not a good sitteraround her and also I'm a huge
(33:12):
extrovert.
I'm like two E, two X, twotimes extroversion.
So I, you know, I can't go andbe in places where I don't know
anyone other than my husband,much as I love him and much as
he is my favorite companion.
You know I have, I have needs,um, so I really am enjoying the
(33:32):
idea of, like, how can I getcreative?
So it's not just like work modeand vacation mode.
That's where experimenting with,like, oh, what's it feel like
to go to Palm Springs for amonth and we're going to have my
mom come with me for part of itand we're going to maybe have
some friends come and visit.
And you know, um, if we gosomewhere tropical and warm, you
(33:57):
know we can work our normaljobs during the day.
Both of us have the ability towork remotely, which is
wonderful and amazing.
And also, you know, at fiveo'clock we can go take a walk on
a beach somewhere.
Yeah, for a few weeks we can dothat, and our weekends can be
(34:18):
all about going to exploringhere and there.
You know, I also think to yourpoint, liliana, about like.
You know, I also think to yourpoint, liliana, about like, what
do we have the energy for intravel?
I think that that travelhacking, particularly home
exchanging, kind of flips thaton its head and it is way more
(34:41):
amenable to a slow travel.
Liliana (34:43):
Yeah.
Allison (34:44):
If you've heard that phrase before.
Like slow travel, I even usechat TPT to help me plan my trip
to Portugal this fall, as youdo, and I was like, give me the
slow travel itinerary.
I don't want to do more thanone thing a day.
Yeah, I want to incorporatesome yoga or hike.
I want to go to a toprestaurant, like you know, once
(35:07):
a week or something like that.
It doesn't have to be.
You know this idea that, okay,we're going to Portugal and I'm
going to die if I don't see allthe things.
Liliana (35:15):
And then I'm going to come back, so Right, absolutely.
Maria (35:20):
That's when we hear those people come back to me the
vacation from their vacationbecause they, they, they
overbooked, they tried to cramit all in and if you're not
enjoying that, there are otheroptions.
Liliana (35:31):
Yeah, I love that in all of this right is the idea
which the three of us for all ofyou listeners, that three of us
are like, smiling ear to ear,energized.
We're like wait what?
Consultation with Allison, butthe idea of like, and in all of
(35:53):
this we're naming our fieldburnout how people are living.
I love that.
In your agency, as yousupervise, you ask the question
what are the boundaries thatneed to be in place?
Because, as a human, you cannotbe on call 24-7.
Yeah, none of us should.
And therefore like can we?
How do we model thoseboundaries to your clients so
that your clients can benefitfrom those boundaries as well?
(36:14):
Like, it's everything thatyou're discussing today that is
so beautiful and I truly needour colleagues need to hear this
.
Allison (36:24):
Thank you, thank this, thank you, thank you.
Maria (36:28):
Thank you.
Thank you for thinking outsideof the box.
And you know, I think it'sindividuals like you, who
problem solve, who look at thebox and go yeah, I can do that
differently.
Let me figure out a way thatfits better.
I mean, this sounds lessstressful.
This home exchange is like it's.
It's almost like you have tosay no to the vacation instead
(36:50):
of having to say yes and takingthe plan right Like it's.
You have you flipped it on itshead.
It's like the vacation is there, it's asking you and you have
to tell it no, and I thinkthat's a much harder, much
harder thing to say no to, right, yeah, then, oh well, I don't
know if I can take the time and,uh, you know I have to
(37:10):
rearrange my schedule.
Yes and yeah, and you can do ittoday, you can do it right now,
yeah, yeah.
I love it.
Liliana (37:17):
I feel like I keep going on and on and I am mindful
um of time, um, and so I'mthinking we're gonna have to
invite Maria Wright Allison back.
Maria (37:27):
Oh, I'd love to.
I was going to warn her beforewe started recording.
I was like you know, this isone of a few right.
Liliana (37:35):
But in the meantime, for all of you who are listening
and are so energized andcurious about, we're going to
include Allison's information sothat you can reach out, pay for
her time, do not be asking foranything.
She deserves to be paid.
Remember boundaries.
We're modeling and we're namingit so that you can call for a
(37:58):
consultation, either becauseyou're a therapist thinking
outside the box or because youtake this to your agency and
you're like can we think aboutways of implementing this?
Because I think it will benefitall of us, for me being
energized, for us right to beasking if we can do anything,
(38:27):
what we want to be doing and Iwas going to ask, allison, if
you have one thing, one takeaway, maybe one question to pose to
those.
Allison (38:41):
Ask yourself if there is one thing that I could be
doing with myself and my giftsand my mental space and the
energy and the hours that I havein a day.
What am I daydreaming about?
What am I talking about in myspare time, what am I Googling?
(39:01):
And listen to that, listen tothat inner wisdom, because it
really is.
Liliana (39:15):
It's not only a source of joy, but I think it's a
source of burnout prevention.
To listen to that, yeah, I'm soglad I have.
Maria (39:20):
We're so glad you did and you're sharing with us, so
thank you for sharing that today.
Thank you, allison.
Until next time, guys.
Okay, have a great day, you two.
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