Bonus Ep. - Melodies of Resilience: A Soldier's Path to Healing Through Psychedelics - A Life in Six Songs

Episode Transcript
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Carolina (00:00):
A trigger warning for those listening to this latest
episode.
Please note that this episodecontains content surrounding
trauma, self-harm and PTSD.
Please exercise self-care asyou need.

David (00:18):
I'm out.
Hey everybody, welcome toanother episode of A Life in Six

(00:53):
Songs and another season.
Our sophomore album is out now.
I'm joined by my co-hosts, asalways, carolina and Raza.

Carolina (01:02):
Hey.

David (01:03):
Hello hosts as always, carolina and Raza, hey, hello
For those of you new to thepodcast.
Each week we embark on an epicadventure to find the songs that
are stuck to us like audibletattoos, that tell the story of
who we are and where we've been,to help us figure out where
we're going.
It's a life story told throughsix songs.
We approach our conversationswith love, kindness and

(01:24):
curiosity to counter theprevalence of hate, anger and
judgment in the world.
Our goal is that, by you alllistening to these stories, you
can bring more love, kindnessand curiosity into your own
lives.
Let's go have a listen together.

Carolina (01:37):
All right.
Well, today's a little bitdifferent in that it's somewhat
of a special episode.
Normally, as the title of thepodcast dictates, it's a life in
six songs, but this episode isa little different.
This one will be highlighting aspecific experience through
music.
Today's special episode willfocus around our founder and

(02:01):
host, david Reese's recentexperience in traveling to
Mexico for PTSD treatment,primarily through the experience
of a psychedelic calledIbogaine.
I think David has discussed itin the past in previous episodes
his PTSD diagnosis and kind ofmoving through that journey.

(02:22):
For those of you who aren'tfamiliar, david was diagnosed
with PTSD post his militaryservice in 2021.
After that diagnosis, weembarked on what's been almost
three years of all kinds ofdifferent treatments medications
, tools, therapies whichgratefully helped move the

(02:43):
needle and move him furtheralong, but not quite enough to
where I think David felt, youknow good and healed.
So I began to start looking foralternative treatments,
stumbled onto a veterancommunity that was really
advocating for psychedelics andthrough that, found a treatment

(03:03):
clinic in Cancun, mexico, calledBeyond.
This specific clinic uses thepsychedelic ibogaine to treat
people struggling withdepression, anxiety, ptsd and
also substance abuse.
So today we'll be discussingthe six songs that you, david,
were listening to during yourtrip and during your treatment.

(03:26):
Before we continue, though, Iwant to make sure to give a bit
of a disclaimer.
We want to make sure to notethat none of what we share today
neither us or David isconsidered medical advice, and
everyone struggling with any ofthese diagnoses needs to do
their own research and duediligence before embarking on a
treatment journey.

David (03:46):
We are not doctors.
None of this is medical advice.
This is my experience.

Carolina (03:52):
Exactly so.
To kick us off, david, briefly,what role did music play during
your time away at Beyond and,through the Ibogaine experience,
your time?

David (04:04):
away at Beyond and through the Ibogaine experience.
Yeah, so, you know, for anyonewho's watched any of the first
season of the podcast, right,you know music is a huge part of
my life.
That's why I started a musicthemed podcast, and so I always
knew music was, you know, hugefor me.
But doing this, you know, kindof adventure, right, going down

(04:27):
to another country to have thistreatment, um, I really learned
how important music is to me andmy overall wellbeing.
It is music is my, whatever youwant to call it, my binky, my
stuffed animal.
It is the thing that to call itmy binky, my stuffed animal, it

(04:47):
is the thing that when I getanxious or nervous, music is the
thing that can bring me back tomyself and bring me back down.
And so it's really fitting thatI get to tell this story in this
format, because I'm telling itthrough six songs and the music
was such a key part of my timethere, like it helped me get

(05:07):
through it, especially because,as we'll get in when we talk
more about my experience downthere, you're you're kind of,
you know, cut off from things,right, you're down there, um,
you don't necessarily have TV orI didn't want to watch the TV
that maybe was in our room andfor a few days around your
treatment you know you have adigital detox right, so they,
you know.
And for a few days around yourtreatment you know you have a
digital detox right so they, youknow, will collect your stuff,
lock it up.
Everything is all safe.

(05:27):
We'll talk more about thatcoming up too, so you can really
focus on the treatment, becauseso often we hide from these
emotions and feelings withdistractions and right.
So you get those distractionstaken away, but what I was still
left with was music, and so itwas a huge part of the journey.

Carolina (05:46):
I love that you set it up in this way where you talk
about how music just has thisprofound like psychological
experience for you.
It helps kind of kick us off.
Kick off our first questionhere Before we get into like the
actual treatment.
Can you give us a sense ofwhere you were at just before
you went to Mexico and what songdo you associate with that time

(06:08):
?

David (06:10):
Yeah, so a song I was listening to a lot in the weeks
before I left was by the bandCurrents, a metalcore band, and
the song is Kill the Ache.

Carolina (06:24):
All right, let's have a listen.
I remember you talking to meabout this song quite a bit when

(07:03):
you sort of discovered it.
You would kind of go upstairsand like disappear into some
music for a bit.
Why this song?

David (07:12):
yeah, it was it.
You know one I I liked the bandcurrents a lot, so I was
listening to them a lot andstumbled on this song.
And you know I I know we talkedin our first season when we
were going through our stuff.
Raza and I talked about how alot of times I in the past
haven't paid as much attentionto lyrics.
I was much more focused onmusic and I think in a lot of

(07:35):
ways it was because of theanxiety, depression and PTSD.
I just sort of like focused inon the music and didn't really
want to listen to the lyrics asmuch, in ways almost like a
protective way.
And this was one that just hitand like one of those songs
where every line is just perfectfor me and my experience right.

(07:57):
Especially, there's a part inthe song where the singer is
sort of talking to somebody elseand he says if I let you stay,
you're going to ruin everything.
I don't know what theirintention was behind that, but
the way when I heard it, how Itook it was this other person
was my PTSD, and so in this wayof like you got to go, because

(08:22):
if I let you stay you're goingto ruin everything.
Right, and it just hits like soperfectly.
And then there's the next linewith that is um, you're making
me hate a world that's so goodto me, right, in the sense of
like the anxiety, depression andPTSD wasn't because of the life
I had.
You know, I love my life inthat sense of like I got, you
know, great partner, great kid,great friend, you know, like all

(08:45):
these things are good and so,but like I couldn't enjoy it.
And so this song just kind ofhits in that way of just so
perfect, and like it says thename of the song, you know, the
last line I live to kill the egg.
Right, that's how it felt for solong that I was.
Just, my existence was just tofight through this right it, it.

(09:06):
You know people that knew meduring this time.
I was me, but it took so mucheffort to fight through all of
the, the mental, you know, uh,uh, pain, um, to let me come out
, and so it was just likeperfect, in that way of just,
you know, I live to kill theache.
That's very much how it felt.
Perfect, in that way of just,you know, I live to kill the

(09:26):
ache, that's very much how itfelt.
Um, the.
You know, I think this is justa great song that captures, you
know, depression and or anxietyand things like that.
That it's like it just feelslike that's.

Raza (09:34):
That's your whole job is just, you're living to kill the
ache for another day hey, dave,was this song, was this playing
before you decided to go downthe path of the experience and
something sort of?
Did this song sort of initiatethat sort of self-reflection and
wanted to find a solution?

(09:54):
Or was this, yeah, like, was itcompletely random and this song
started you down a specificpath?
Or was this?

David (10:02):
yeah I think it was yeah, I think it was more of the
second.
It wasn't like we had found thetreatment center in cancun and
then, once we signed up, I foundthis song.
It was more the other way.
The song came first, but it waskind of right in sequence with
it.
I would say like they very muchkind of lined up.

(10:22):
Once I kind of had this song andI kind of really connected to
it.
It enabled me to kind of liketalk a little bit clearer about
what I was feeling.
In ways, it just kind ofcaptured it so much and so, yeah
, it was kind of like and likeCarolina said, it was my comfort
song for so long.
You know, like we say, like youknow, a lot of people,

(10:45):
especially with, like metalmusic, right, it's like, why do
you want to listen to that?
It's all yelly and screaming.
It's like, well, this is why.
Because that's what I felt likeinside.
So here's someone that gets meRight, so I can listen to it and
go yes, that is exactly how Ifeel and I feel like I got this
buddy, you know, with me.
And so, yeah, once I found thesong, or like once I you know,
cause, like I said, I've beenlistening to the currents, um,
for a couple of years, um, butyou know, I I came across this

(11:09):
song and was I just happened tostart paying attention more to
lyrics, I think, cause we weredoing this podcast, right, we
had done the first episode andpeople were talking about lyrics
, so I started to pay a littlebit more attention to the mute,
to the lyrics of the music I waslistening to.
And, yeah, when I, when I heardthis, I was just like, oh,
that's, that's, that's perfect,and so, yeah, it was my comfort,
like Carolina said, I wouldlisten to it, like on repeat

(11:31):
numerous times and that wouldkind of okay, I'm not alone.

Raza (11:46):
It almost sounds to me like the culmination of all of
season one.
And while you were processingthat and processing everyone
else's sort of, while you wereprocessing how all of our
interviewees processed theirrelationship with music, you
know, like a band like this,like currents, that's something
that you've already been payingattention to and was on your
radar.
All of a sudden, boom,something happens and, by some
osmosis, yeah, um, a song thatyou may have already heard just
hits differently.
Now, all of a sudden, boom,something happens and, by some

(12:06):
osmosis, yeah, um, a song thatyou may have already heard just
hits differently.
Now, all of a sudden, and itsort of starts you down the path
, yeah, absolutely.

David (12:13):
And I would say like, um, you know, people, through all
of my treatments right for theyears, every time I would go to
a new group or a new individualtherapy or something like that,
everyone was always telling mehow, like, how much courage it
took to come Right.
And you know it take a lot ofcourage.
And so, you know, and I couldnever feel that Right, it just

(12:36):
didn't feel like I felt terrible.
I was just, I was sort ofgiving up in a sense.
I'm just like, whatever's next,fine, I'll go and just fine,
let's do it Right.
Um, and I, I see now you know,kind of being on the other side
of all of this treatment, um,that you know it did take a lot
of courage every time.
Right, it took courage to, youknow, reach out to you, raza, in

(12:58):
the beginning of all this andsay, hey, I got this diagnosis
and you had experience workingwith vets on, you know,
disability claims and things andyou helped me talk me through
that.
And then starting this podcast,right, that took courage.
I had the idea, but it was like, no again, it was always me
there.
I just had to fight through somuch muck and stuff to get out
there, but I was able to doenough to do these things.

(13:20):
That kept inspiring me to keepfighting Right.
I think once we did got thispodcast and we started to talk
to people and I was like this isamazing, this is what I love
doing, this is so great, I wantto get better Right, and that
that very much kept me going.
So, yeah, absolutely.

Carolina (13:38):
Roz, I really like how you sort of tied it in with
like processing of stories andstorytelling and through music,
because I really think I don'tknow, david, correct me if I'm
like wrong but I really thinkmusic helps you process things
and I I say that to put it insomewhat of a timeline context
here David was still undergoinglots of different therapies and

(14:00):
meds and things, but, like wesaid, it wasn't working enough
and this treatment to us feltlike a Hail Mary, like if this
doesn't work, I don't know whatelse we have left right.
So that's big to process andgetting yourself ready to go do
something in another countrythat feels scary, away from your

(14:23):
family, away from your kid,away from your you know your
life.
I don't know, david, did thissong help get you ready, like
process, to sort of let thatPTSD finally go?

David (14:36):
Yeah, no, I think that's a good way to kind of summarize
what I was trying to say before.
I think in that way of like allof these things beforehand were
steps towards it.
Right, it wasn't like there waseverything before and then I
went down to Mexico and did thistreatment and like everything
changed.
It was a process beforehand andas I was going through all of

(14:58):
the treatments over these years,like we said, it would move the
needle a little bit after I'dfinished some 12-week group on
you know whatever it was,managing emotions or something
like that.
You know, uh, I feel a littlebit better.
I'm like okay, okay, but then,real quick, it would just kind
of come right back and I wouldget so angry and frustrated and
be like no one's able to help.
None of this is working now.

(15:18):
Being on the other side andhaving gone down to Mexico in
this hell Hail Mary attempt, um,gone down to Mexico in this
Hail Mary attempt, I realizedhow all of those things I did
were all steps that helped me beas prepared and ready for this
Hail Mary to be as successful asit was Right.
So I think if I could talk toanyone out there who is at some

(15:39):
point in where I was in myjourney.
If you just started to get helpor you just started to contact
the VA and your first thing andyou're frustrated, as all hell,
just keep going.
Keep saying yes At the end ofsomething.
If they're like what do youwant to do next?
We have this other group forthis.
Just say yes, keep going,because all of it is building

(16:00):
towards healing.
It might not feel like it inthe moment, but it is, and I
wasn't able to see it during.
But now, being more healed, I'mable to look back and realize
that.
So just keep going.

Carolina (16:14):
All right.
So you've kept going.
You decide to go right, wedecide to embark on this journey
.
Tell us about heading to Cancun, tell us about arriving at
Beyond, at the clinic.
I know you and you fly and youalways have headphones on, so
what song did you associate withthat experience of just going?

David (16:39):
Yeah, so I was listening to pretty much most of the time
in my travels down,predominantly less than Jake.
They're a ska punk band fromGainesville, Florida.
They were there when I was astudent there.
I know my band's never playedwith them, I don't think I can't
remember, but we're definitelyplaying the same places a lot

(17:01):
and you know, definitely awesomeand it was from their album In
With the Out Crowd.
Really the whole album spoke tome, but specifically this song,
Hopeless Case.

Carolina (17:12):
Let's take a listen.

David (17:14):
Truth is that I'm self-destructive, I'm insecure,
I'm out of focus.
The truth is that I've hadenough, but you still have me.
You, you don't see me that way.
You hear the words that I say.

(17:34):
You just tell me my heart's inthe right place.

Carolina (17:50):
It's the world that's confused.
What about this song helped youas you were embarking on this
journey?

David (18:02):
Yeah, I know I said it about the current song that it's
like every word sort of feelsperfect.
I think this one is even moreso and the perfect song for on
the travel down there.
Right, I've left you guys.
I'm on this flight.
It's the Hail Mary going toanother country and, like I

(18:24):
talked about, you know, with theprevious song, there had been
so many steps along the way oftrying to get help and there was
so many people involved in thatright.
You, carolina, of course, likethe greatest support ever, raza,
you as well.
So many people along in myjourney Linnea, georgetown,

(18:44):
corey, marsha, terry so manypeople that you've got the list
in front of you, carolina that Imissed someone that's on the
list.
I'm having a little troublethinking clearly right now.

Carolina (18:55):
No, you have just, you have everyone.

David (18:57):
All of all of like when I was just so deep in it all.
It was so tough to see that.
And I just love this song Causeyou know the it's sung from
this perspective of you know I'mgoing through all of this, I'm
a hopeless case, but you neversaw me that way, you know, and

(19:18):
that's just like how it feltfrom everybody, and so it's just
like you know, perfect.
And so it was just like I fromeverybody, and so it's just like
you know, perfect.
And so it was just like I wasmaking.
I felt like I was making thattransition again, raza, like you
talked about, like the podcastfirst season, like all these
steps started to kind of bringme up and kind of you know the,
the flying down there and andgetting to this point where it's
like, okay, I think we're goingto something that's really

(19:40):
going to help.
Um, it just made me like beable to see everybody that was
always there for me, you know,cheering me on and and helping,
no matter how bad I was.

Raza (19:50):
So, yeah, I think one of the things that we, that we sort
of wanted to let our audienceand our guests know, was that
you know we're going on thisjourney, but this really, I mean
you're sort of this is your,this, this podcast is your baby,
this is your idea, this is your, and it comes, and it comes
from a really simple premise ofyou know you like talking to

(20:14):
other people about music.
It's as simple as that, right,um.
So so I think when I in, in, in, in, speaking about the last
song and then transitioning intothis, it really was that simple
um, to see your journey with,with, with season one, and how
you look at music and things,and, and, and even now, in this

(20:37):
really really sort of criticaland significant moment, I mean
music is the sort of anchorthat's tying you down, that's
the, that's the bookmark thatyou're using.
So it is.
It is really cool to see that.

David (20:49):
Yeah and absolutely and and and, like I said, I've been
a less than Jake fan ever sinceI was in college in Gainesville
and seeing them, you know, itwas like I was like this band is
fun, it's awesome.
Their lyric their songs are,you know, they have their silly
songs, but they also have thesekind of deep songs.
They really capture thatexperience of, like you know,

(21:10):
college age coming of adulthoodangst and confusion and what am
I doing?
And I'm told to do this, but itdoesn't feel right and these
types of things.
And this was another case of,like the song helping me to
realize something.
Right, because I kind of threwthe Less Than Jake on, not
because I'm like this song isgoing to or this album is going
to help me process stuff.

(21:31):
It was just like I like LessThan Jake, right?
So all of this, like a lot ofthese songs were kind of by
chance that they kind of came upright in this, in this journey
over the 10 days or more that Iwas, you know, gone and
traveling there, and I remember,just I remember being on the
plane and playing this album andthis song came on and it just
like hit me of, just like, oh,my goodness, yes, that is

(21:54):
exactly how I felt.
I have felt like this hopelesscase, yet all the people around
me never treated me that way,and so it just helped me see
that.
And so, yeah, the music verymuch came in and sort of was
like we're going to help youfigure this out, right, we're
going to make some sense of thisfor you.

Carolina (22:14):
And so you know you're feeling this way as you arrive,
right, you get picked up fromthe airport, you get taken to
the clinic and you're feelingkind of like a hopeless case
here as you arrive.
What was that a little bit like, and did they?
How did they take care of youand kind of put you at ease?
It's scary yeah.

David (22:31):
Very scary, very scary.
I don't know.

Carolina (22:33):
Like we are not a family who was into psychedelics
before had ever done anythinglike that, so this was a leap of
faith, right?

David (22:42):
Yeah, absolutely Absolutely, and it you know.
Yeah, you kind of have thosethoughts in your head of like,
am I really doing this, like andit's.
You know we'll get into this alittle bit in the next songs
when we talk about the actualtreatment and the medicine
itself and that experience.
But you know, it's not like alittle bit.

(23:02):
We're not talking micro dosinghere.
This is like they call it, theheroic dose.
It's like there's, you know,the micro dosing, there's
recreational dosing ofpsychedelics.
Then it's over here what we'redoing, right, so it's intense.
This is a big deal and thissong set me up so well to arrive
, because it just continued thatI was able to see all the

(23:24):
support people had given mealong the way.
And then you arrive there andthe staff at Beyond couldn't
have been better at making youfeel welcome, safe.
You could trust the whole placeand everybody there.
The second you walk in the doorright, they have a car that

(23:47):
picks you up from the airport.
You don't have to worry aboutgetting there, they've got it
all scheduled and stuff.
You walk through the door andit's this converted like house,
right, think of, you know, ifyou're from South Florida or
something like that, you knowconcrete house, you know pretty
big pool in the back and stuff.
You go through the front doorand you're in the living room.
They got all furniture aroundand all that and they take you

(24:07):
down and they sit you down onthe couch right there, a nurse
and another nurse and they startdoing your intake, right,
because you're there, and sothey got to get you checked in,
make sure all the stuff, makesure everything you submitted is
great.
And it just felt so greatbecause it wasn't like you
walked in and they brought youto like a hospital room to do
this right, you were doing it inthis living room of this home.
That felt just like a home, um,and they even have that.

(24:30):
They had TVs around that wouldlike have different information
on there of activities of theday or whatever.
But there'd also be like littlesayings of theirs and, uh, one
of them was something like thatof like you know, don't worry,
your home now, or something likethat, and it's totally how it
felt.
Don't worry, you're home now,or something like that, and it's
totally how it felt.
There's people that go downthere for drug addictions,

(24:51):
opioids and others, and so weknew this beforehand.
But they said we're going to gothrough your stuff because they
have to, because there's peopletrying to detox and they can't
have people walking around withdrugs and stuff and that could
derail everybody.
And I was doing an intake roomwith the doctor and the doctor
was asking me questions and thenurse was there, had my stuff on

(25:12):
the table, going through it allsuper kind, super gentle with
everything, super thorough, and,oh my goodness, talk about a
difference between my militaryexperience, because when they
went through our stuff therethey just dumped it and it was
like the most you know, you know, kind of humiliating thing
really.
Um, and then when they weredone checking everything, nurse

(25:32):
folded everything all back up,all my clothes and everything
and put it back in my suitcaseand stuff.
So everything like they have todo this.
Right, they've got to go throughyour stuff Cause they got to
make sure there's no drugs oranything else that could be
hazardous to you or anybody elsegoing through treatment.
But they could not have done itin a more kind way and so, yeah
, just the second I got there Ifelt so at home, so trusting of

(25:57):
everyone there.
Everyone was kind and welcoming.
It's a medical experience I'venever experienced before
anywhere else.

Carolina (26:07):
And I'll say that that was important to me.
Like I mentioned, we are notfamiliar with psychedelics.
My only frame of reference islike ayahuasca, in the middle of
the desert with like a shaman,and I was not cool with sending
him to the middle of nowherewith some person.

(26:27):
So, as we vetted this clinic,the fact that there were doctors
and nurses on staff 24 7, thathe had an ekg while he was doing
it, that he like that he waslike fully monitored by mds,
just put me at ease because, asthe family of somebody who's
going through this, when youdon't, you don't hear from them
for six or seven days is rough.

(26:49):
So to know he was in good hands, this was huge for for me,
since we're doing thiscollectively.

Raza (26:56):
Carolina, can I can?
You maybe elaborate a littlemore about that.
You know how, how was it foryou and and and and and your
household, you know I mean.

Carolina (27:07):
At first.
Like you know, I was able totalk to him the first couple of
days.
He was there before histreatment dose and so I felt
pretty cool about that.
But then I knew at some pointthey were going to take his
electronics and he wasn't goingto, he was going to be out of
contact and the clinic did do anamazing job of keeping me
posted that during the treatment, which is about 12 hours, they
let me know when he started,they let me know when he was

(27:28):
halfway through and they let meknow when he was done, said he
was stable, he was, you know, ingood health, everything went
well, great.
And then it was like radiosilence for like seven days and
I have my own anxiety.
Um, and I'm a person who likesinformation Like that makes me
feel safe, and so to not hearanything from him for those
seven days I'm not going to liethe kid and I were like a wreck.

(27:52):
Like every morning I would wakeup and Bella would be like
anything and I was like nothingand I knew he was in good hands,
like I knew he was safe, butlike we all have a lot at stake
in his recovery and he's likethe most important person in my
life.
So like I just want to know hewas okay.
You know which I knewphysically he was.

(28:13):
But like, did it work?
How are you feeling?
Are you happy?
Are you sad?
Are you like what, who sendtheir loved ones for treatment
and don't hear from them for awhile?
Like it's a lot.
Um, further reinforced my ideathat, like, had I known him when

(28:34):
he was in the military and hewas just like gone on deployment
for months, I would have nothandled that Well.
I did not handle this well atall.
There were a lot of tears.
I was kind of a wreck.

David (28:41):
Yeah, and, and just you know, full disclosure.
Um, you know they had your.
Your digital detox is basicallythe day before your treatment,
the day of the treatment doseand the day after Um, and they
on that like end of that thirdday, or it might've been the
next morning, which will youknow.
We'll get into how thetreatment structure was in these

(29:02):
next songs they had.
They came up to me.
A nurse came up to me and saidhey, your digital detox is over,
do you want your stuff back?
And I was in the middle oftreatment and I can tell you,
for anyone who's hesitant aboutit, in the sense of like I don't
want people to take myelectronics, it is.
It is essential to have thatdigital detox to do the work

(29:22):
that you're you're doing.
And there was still so muchmore work that I was doing that
I was like like I wanted to talkto carolina and bella more than
anything in the world.
But the thought of getting myphone back and like you can't
just kind of open your phone andjust kind of like go right to
you know, all notificationswould be there for three days,
news right, I was just I thinkif I open that phone, I'm going

(29:46):
to like derail all the progressI made, and so the the extended
uh, non-contact was was more onmy side.
Um, so anyone who's thinking ofgoing, I would, I would
encourage you all with friendsand family, anyone that cares
about you, while you're downthere, kind of talk through a
little bit of the plan of whatyou think you might want to do,

(30:10):
because I think I could haveprobably grabbed the phone and
just real easily tried to get inmy text and say, hey, I'm good,
I'm just I'm giving my phoneback because that's what's
needed to do this and stuff.
So yeah, but it was crucial.
The digital detox is a crucialpart of it.
You know you're trying to break.
What you're basically doing isbreaking deep, deep subconscious

(30:32):
habits really of the way you'rethinking and all these kinds of
things that you know is is whatanxiety, depression, ptsd is,
and you've got to kind of cutoff from all of that.

Raza (30:44):
Yeah, I read somewhere very recently just to that
digital detox point.
It's our brains aren't designed, weren't meant, to process the
amount of information that wehave access to.
I think someone said somethingalong the lines of you know,
it's an organ that, up until thelast, maybe few hundred years

(31:08):
ago, was basically designed togather food and use your you
know your five senses.

David (31:16):
Right and worry about the 40 or 50 people in your little
community.

Raza (31:20):
Right, yeah, yeah exactly, and now, in the palm of of our
hands, we have all theinformation that was ever made
available, at any time in anyplace exactly.
We're just not we.
So this, um, I totally get itwhen you say you know the
digital detox is, is is a bigpart of just erasing bad habits

(31:41):
and and sort of starting fresh.

David (31:43):
Yeah, and I and I would encourage people, anybody who's
on their own treatment journeyif you're, you know you're,
you're maybe not at the pointwhere you're booking your ticket
to Mexico, but you're, you're,you're doing treatment, you're
doing talk therapy or somethinglike that I would encourage you
to do whatever digital detox youmight be able to kind of get
off social media or kind of stopfollowing some of the things,

(32:04):
like you know.
And it was tough because for me,um, in in these years before
going, when I was kind of at myworst and, you know, depressed
and everything like that, and Icould barely get off the couch
on certain days, I would be like, well, the least I can do is
stay informed.
So I would just have the newson all day, right, and and.
But it cause it felt like I wasat least doing something.
Right, I can't be, maybe, outthere making a difference or,

(32:27):
you know, teaching or whatever,because of what I was going
through, but I can at least beinformed.
And I think that really justdid not help me at all, right,
cause I was just refilling oflike, yeah, there's all kinds of
stuff to be anxious about andthe world is a constant threat,
right is.
You know how I felt.

Carolina (32:44):
So, yeah, digital detox highly recommend well and
I think for me, I got reallyused to being able to reach him
whenever I needed and when hewas at his worst yeah, I'm just
right there on the couch.
You knew exactly where I waswell, yes, but at your worst,

(33:05):
when you were having, likepersistent suicidal ideations
and I needed to leave the house.
Being able to reach him meant Iknew he was alive and that he
was safe.
And that he hadn't donesomething catastrophic that he
couldn't take back Right, andthere were times where I
couldn't reach you, that I wasin a full blown panic, like
that's it, it's over.

(33:25):
I need to send police for awellness check, like it was.
It was that hard.
So then to give me like six orseven days where I couldn't
reach him at all, I was likeright, Lose my mind.

David (33:38):
And again, because not because you didn't think I was
physically safe you knew theplace, you knew I was good,
You're, you're're, you're,you're, you're, contained in
this building, you're safe,you're fed, there's wonderful
staff.
But you get so used to doingthat when you can, it feels off.
And yeah, just to kind of saythat too of like, um, kind of
the full disclosure thing,because part of this is also,

(33:58):
you know, telling the story isabout doing this treatment, but
it's also about, um, you know,um, keeping these, these
feelings and and and thoughtsand depression and everything
like that, not keeping themhidden, um, and and I, I think I
did a good, uh, well, not agood job, but I, I definitely
kept some stuff hidden.
I downplayed a lot because Iknew it was scary, um, and I, I

(34:20):
think I was downplaying it tomyself at times too, but there
were definite days where, when Iwas at my lowest, where the
predominant thought in my headall day was wanting to take my
life, having this vision ofgetting a gun, and, you know,
doing it like are you having anysuicidal thoughts?

(34:46):
And I was like no, because Iwasn't like thinking about it to
plan it and do it Right, but Iwas sort of like for lack of a
better word fantasizing about it.
Right, and it's and now Iunderstand more that suicidal
ideation, what it means You're,you're, basically, you're in
such pain that the thought ofgoing on day after day like this
is so much that your brain youstart just envisioning ending it

(35:07):
, because it keeps you going,like you know, like well, I
could always stop this, right.
And so if, again, if you aresomeone out there who's
listening to this and you'rehaving any of those types of
thoughts, even if it's just alittle vision of a dream or like
kind of thing of like you justimagine, yeah, I could get a gun
and put it, you know, to myhead.

(35:28):
You know that's suicidalideation, okay, and you know,
please go talk to somebody.
There's plenty of people outthere that can help and it does
get better.
I didn't believe it a few yearsago, but you stick with it, it
can get better.

Raza (35:42):
You stick with it, it can get better.
Would you be okay sharing when,or up until when those types of
ideations were?
You were having those types ofthoughts.

David (35:54):
Up until my treatment at Beyond.
Oh wow, yeah, I mean much less,so so this wasn't something that
like while you were deployed orright after you were discharged
, oh yeah, no, they actually thethose kinds of thoughts in here
and and that's a really goodquestion too, because it gets it
something else uh, that that wesee, um, you know veterans
specifically with this, but youknow anyone who's experiencing

(36:16):
it.
You know, um, you start to you,you, you gaslight yourself in
the sense of you, you, you doubtwhat you're feeling and you're
like, well, no, I shouldn't feelthis way because this didn't
happen to me.
I had this saying that wedefine trauma as anything worse
than what happened to me, right?
So whatever happened to me isnot trauma, it's whatever is

(36:38):
more than that, because we canalways imagine someone worse off
or having a worse experience.
And as veterans, this is likejust on steroids, right, this
idea, because it's always aboutlike, don't complain, you suck
it up, and all these types ofthings.
And so it's always that thingof like, no, no, no, no, no, no,
you got to put on the good faceand drive on and suck it up and

(36:59):
stuff like that.
And so I doubted myself for along time.
I was like I can't have PTSD,but then I was like I mean, I
was in combat, we were shot at,people lost, you know, people on
the other side.
We took people's lives and andyou know all of those things and
so, but it's not even justabout that, because a lot of it
was from just the culture andstuff I saw.

(37:21):
I mean, I saw what I took to beabuse of people.
Right, that I thought was notgood leadership but just
straight up abuse, um, and soit's all of that together and so
one, it didn't start rightafter.
You know, um, uh, the way I, um, you know, trauma and PTSD
works by additive right, it'ssort of you have these

(37:44):
experiences that put your bodyinto this.
You know trauma state or youknow, shock the body in some way
.
You don't automatically goright into it, right, you can,
but it's as you keep trying togo through life, like go back to
what I was saying in thebeginning of it was always me
there, but I'd have to likefight to get through all of this
, but I'd have to like fight toget through all of this.

(38:06):
It's that process over timethat wears you down to the point
where you're just your body'sjust out of energy and it can't
keep doing that.
So, um, I would say the suicidalideation you know kind of
started maybe, you know, five orsix years ago probably, as I
got into grad school, not somuch during my master's degree,
but when I graduated from mymaster's at Oregon and went to,

(38:29):
we moved to the DC area to startmy PhD at Georgetown.
I think that's where thingsreally started to kind of go
down for me, and I think partlytoo is I started to make my
research veterans issues, and soI think in a way, it kind of
brought all that stuff back upand I was talking about it all
and giving talks to, you know,lectures to groups and and, and
being this sort of person who'stalking about veteran trauma and

(38:50):
you know, veteran issues andall these types of things and
military training and how itcontributes to this and things,
but I wasn't dealing with it inany type of like mental health
way, and so I think that wholeprocess of of talking about it
um kind of rebrought it up andkept it fresh in my, my, my body
in a sense.

(39:10):
Um, because that was like the,a breaking point, right.
I was in my third, third yearof my PhD, um, and I was just
every semester was getting worsethan the next.
I was writing just horriblepapers, just just putting down
words to turn something in.
Um, you know, I was onprobation for that last semester
, like, if I you know, I don'tturn things around, you know,

(39:32):
this is you're not gonna be ableto stick around.
Um, and I was just every everysemester I was like, all right,
I just need to put my head downand work even harder to do it,
which was just reinforcing allof the issues and making the
issues worse.
Right, because I was also doingall the negative talk of like
God, you've got to suck it up,Come on, make it happen.
And so I ended up leaving thePhD.

(39:53):
I remember Carolina and I werein the car and she had picked me
up from the train in Arlingtonand driving me back home and we
were in the driveway of thereand I was just in a terrible
spot and Carolina just said youdon't have to keep doing this
and I just broke down and I said, yeah, I can't keep doing this.
And so that was the firstbreakdown.

(40:15):
And so I think that's whatreally kind of the intensity of
the PhD, but specifically alsothe research I was doing and
everything, and the time thatkept going by of having to just
keep trying to struggle throughit all, um, just finally kind of
caught up with me.
So the the the thing I wouldsay for everyone listening is

(40:35):
you know PTSD, whether it'smilitary related, or you know
childhood trauma or anything, um, it's not something that shows
up necessarily right away.
It's something that over time,kind of keeps getting worse and
you can't seem to really getbetter.
And this is why you see a lotof veterans finally present or
get treatment or, you know, haveto get help, and it's, you know

(40:59):
, 15 years after their service,right, or something like that,
because it's all that added time.
But yeah, go back to thequestion.
The suicidal ideation wasdefinitely stayed up until I
went to beyond.
It started to get a little bitless, like we said, with
everything, with the podcastgoing and these other things, I
started to kind of, you know,felt like I was like coming up

(41:20):
above water a little bit and I'mlike, okay, okay, I can get
there, and so it would wane alittle bit, but always still
there.
And that was kind of the scary,one of the scariest things.
They always asked me in anytherapy when I would bring it up
and they're like there's thisbig distinction.
It's like, okay, is it justideation or are you actually
making plans?
And I was always like, no, I'mnot making any plans, I don't

(41:42):
have the intention, I don't wantto do it.

Raza (41:44):
In my rational mind, talking to you right now, no, I
don't want to do this, but yes,it is some days the dominant
thought in my head yeah, I'm,I'm, I'm here with you, you know
, listening to this and andobviously I've, you know, I've,
I've known you personally in thelast couple of years since we
reconnected, and things likethat and and it's, it's.

David (42:05):
Yeah, I think I'm gonna need some therapy after it's
true, and and um, but, and Ithink um kind of going off that
point.
One thing I will say is, likeyou know, I I call it the Robin
Williams scenario.

Raza (42:19):
I was thinking about him as you were explaining the last
segment.

David (42:22):
Because I bet most people that know me would think I was
the last person that was havingthese issues and these thoughts.
But it's there.

Raza (42:35):
Well, I know you better than I know Robinin williams,
because robin williams, I don'tknow at all.
Right, of course but but I I'dbe lying if I, if I, if I, if I
said that I didn't think abouthow david the, my friend david,
who I've known since high school, right, how like I've I'd be

(42:58):
lying if I if I said that Ididn't think about how you were
doing while you were doing, forexample, the podcast.
I think the podcast is probablythe most consistent amount of
time that we've worked on aproject together, right, and it
was a heavy it.
It is a heavy project.
It's not.
It's not something that I've II don't take it lightly in the

(43:18):
sense that I think, as a project, I want to do a good job and I
take it seriously.
But I think the subject mattercan certainly get to be a lot
for someone who himself, whothemselves, are going through a
lot of the things that ourguests are talking about.

(43:39):
Yeah, right, like we've hadveterans on this show, we've had
, uh, we've had, we've had allmanner of like we always we try
to go for a diverse crowd, butbut we are back and watch season
one everybody but but one ofour sort of um, not mantras, but
one of our sort of not mantras,but one of our sort of
recurring themes is veteranssupport and mental health

(44:02):
support, and talking about thosetypes of issues again under the
context of music.
But taking a step back, yeah,I'd be lying if I said that I
didn't think about.
You know, like two, three, fourinterviews into it.
Well, you know how is my boydoing.
You know how I remember.

David (44:20):
Yeah, you both, both of you would do it.
You would be always checking onme.
I'd be like, all right, yeah,I'm going to get this episode
edited and up tomorrow and I'vegot some clips going, and you
were always both like, yeah,it's cool If it.
If it takes a little bit longer, it's okay, there's no rush.
You know, you, you you bothwere always looking out for me
and you weren't wrong in thatbecause, like I said, um, I

(44:42):
could be me, but it just took somuch damn energy that after we
would record an episode, like inseason one, I was pretty much
done for the rest of the day,like I was sleeping on the couch
.
I was done Like that's it,that's all I had for that.
And so, yeah, you're I mean,you were, you were correct to be
concerned, but it was always sogreat and I appreciate both of
you for this one, for being partof this, because I was telling

(45:05):
Carolina right before we weregetting ready to set up here and
record this one.
I'm like, I'm so glad I didn'ttry and do this podcast by
myself One.
It's just so much more fun withco-hosts and stuff like that,
but I definitely needed thesupport.
I don't think I would have beenable to do it without you all,
raza.
You help and find guests andstuff right.
Reaching out to people was avery difficult thing for me to

(45:29):
do.
At my worst I couldn't evenanswer my phone at my job, right
, I'd have to let it go tovoicemail and then so I could
know exactly what the person wascalling for, because the
unknown was just, you know, athreat.
And so I just appreciate youboth so much for that.
And, you know, getting thispodcast off the ground because
it has been so great.
Like you said, you know we'retrying to talk about these

(45:50):
stories.
We're not, it's not therapy,we're not just like tell us
about your trauma, but we'retalking about people's life
stories through song, and sopeople are bringing up difficult
, challenging times, and thatwas kind of the whole goal of
like, all right, this can be,like, you know, the first step
for people kind of sharing thesetypes of stories and realizing
like talking about things isgood even if it's scary.

(46:11):
Yeah.

Raza (46:14):
But I guess I would just say that, if you know, if, if at
any point it stops being good,you know it's okay to call
timeout, right, of course, um,and, and that goes for anything
that anyone else might be goingthrough Um, like, don't, please,
don't keep doing shit.
That's going to hurt you.
That's not the point.

David (46:33):
Yeah, and that that that's a good way to describe it
too, because where a lot of thepain comes from is trying to
continue on in the world as ifeverything's okay.
Right, we talk about kind ofputting the mask on.
Right, you got to put that maskon to get through whatever you
need to do.
So you make it through whateveryou have to do, whether it's

(46:55):
parenting, work, friend, youknow, just whatever driving on
the road, right, I don't want tolike flip out and, you know,
run someone off the road, right.
So you got to be like, okay, Igot to pull it together to be
able to get through these thingsand, yeah, that wears on you.

Carolina (47:09):
So and I'll say people who are going through this
sometimes are really good atlike putting on the brave face.
You know they have like theirmoments and the people closest
to them see, you know, the dayafter day, but even then like it
can be really hard to know howbad something might be.
You know, I live with Davidevery single day.

(47:32):
We both work from home.
Like we were together every dayand I wasn't aware of how bad
it had gotten Right.
So we went to the VA and theyasked you know, have you had
suicidal ideations?
And he was like yes, which Iknew.
But then they were like howfrequently?
And then he says every day.
And I was like wait a minuteevery day.
Like that floored me, cause Ithought it was a once in a while

(47:55):
, maybe on a really bad day.
I didn't realize this wassomething persistent, every
single day.

Raza (48:03):
That kind of goes to the question that I was asking ahead
of this.
That kind of led to thisdiscussion, which is I was
trying to, from my frame of mind, figure out.
Okay, I've known this dude whenI was 16.
I remember seeing him at UF inhis 20s and then we got back in
touch in our 30s and 40s.
We were in our 40s now andwe've been on this podcast

(48:24):
journey.
So I was trying to, in my mind,make a chronology of OK, I know
when you were deployed, I knowwhere you are now, when was the
last time?
And yeah, carolina, like youjust said, every day up until
this treatment.
And yeah, carolina, like youjust said, you know, every day
up until this treatment.
And I'm my jaw was on the flooras well thinking wow, we were
doing all that podcast stuff andyou're probably processing

(48:44):
other people's stuff and thenhaving these ideations and
thoughts yourself and I'm justwhat are we doing here, you know
?
So, yeah, right, yeah, and thatcan feel really hard.

Carolina (48:58):
I've had conversations with this with other friends
who are caregivers to spouses.
It can feel really hard, thelike long term midness of this,
like people might know, but thenlike months go by and they're
like, how are they doing?
And you're like same, andthey're like same still you know
, or, but your spouse orwhatever wasn't ever in combat.
They had a non-combat role inthe military, like what you know

(49:18):
.
Or but your spouse or whateverwasn't ever in combat.
They had a non-combat role inthe military, like what you know
.
Just all of this sort of likemisconceived notions about what
trauma looks like or how itplays out or how persistent it
is in your everyday life.
There's a lot of people don'tknow because they don't talk
about it.

David (49:33):
Exactly.
Yeah, it's that saying I loveit's.
You know, you see it ont-shirts or whatever, and it
says be kind to everyone youmeet.
They're probably you know,they're probably fighting
something and they just don'thave the energy to kind of keep

(50:03):
it together anymore and that'show it kind of showed up.
So be kind.

Carolina (50:08):
All right, let's.
Let's get to the good stuff,let's get to the meat of it to
the meat of it all, which isyour main dosage of ibogaine.
It's a, like I mentioned, a 12hour, somewhat, um, medically
supervised experience that theycall your flood dose, because
it's the highest dosage of thedrug that you will get during

(50:29):
your stay.
Um, what?
Without just saying like, whatwas that like?
But what?
What do you think to music?
Because I think you processthings through music.
What song do you associate withyour flood dose during your
Ibogaine experience?

David (50:46):
Yeah, so this song, it was a band I knew about but
really connected with.
While I was gone I had my phonefor a little bit so I was able
to do that, but I also had a TVin my room and they had like all
of the stuff Netflix andYouTube and stuff.
So I was just kind of watchingYouTube and pulling up music and

(51:07):
different things and I cameacross this and it just floored
me.
I watched it probably like 10times a night.
I would just watch it on repeat, um, and so this was, if I had
to pick one song for, like, mytime there, this would be it,
because it was just throughoutso much, and it is Ginger Pisces
.

Carolina (51:27):
Raza's like what.

Raza (51:34):
I drew a different reality With unconditional loyalty.
Ego hardly can be pickedBecause I'm selfless Still above
the lakes.

David (52:13):
Virgin innocence.
One being brings life Without arefidget.

Carolina (52:26):
Well, you two are rocking out listening to it.
If you are watching thispodcast episode on YouTube, you
obviously probably see a clip ofthe video which you can see the
singer.
If you are solely listening tothis podcast, you should know
that the singer both thetraditional singing and the

(52:47):
screaming is the same person.

David (52:50):
It's this woman doing both parts which melts my brain
every time.
This video um, it's not just themusic video for the song.
The song originally came out onlike a 2016 album or something
like that.
They re-recorded this, so thisis live recording.
They've added, you know, addedsome other stuff afterwards and
post-production or whatever, butthis is like they redid it in

(53:12):
2019.
And this version is just likeamazing.
It's got something like 90million views on youtube because
it's just like it's there's ajoke on there.
It says, like this is the.
This is the video all metalheadsare showing their non-metalhead
friends to be like, check thisout, you gotta see this.
Um.
So, yeah, um.

(53:33):
Where to start their backstory?
Right, I mean, I know, like andthis is how I kind of found out
about them, because they'reukrainian, um and um.
So they've been around for, youknow, since like 2009, I think,
or something like that, likemost bands, right, they're
toiling in in, you know, the,the empty clubs and stuff until

(53:53):
they get noticed.
So they've been bigger for awhile, but when the russian
invasion kicked off, theystarted popping.
So they've been bigger for awhile, but when the Russian
invasion kicked off, theystarted popping up because they
were talking about it Causethey're from the Eastern part of
Ukraine, so the part that'slike invaded and things and so,
um, yeah, I don't know ifthere's.
You got more to?

Raza (54:08):
yeah, that was it.
Um, uh, I I heard about themfrom some other friends and,
yeah, I'm just going to put itout into the universe.
I mean, I would love.
I think her name is TatianaShmila.

David (54:24):
Yeah, Tatiana and the bass player is Eugene.
They're the ones that I've seendo most of the interviews.
Yeah, yes, if you want to comeon, we would love to have you
100%.

Raza (54:42):
We would love to hear your six song story.
They've got some killer storiesand stuff.
Just just from the interviewsthat I've seen, uh, the skills I
mean.
Um, one of the um, eugene's oneof his biggest uh influences, I
remember in one of the othervideos was was uh, ryan?
I think it's ryan martini from,uh, from mud vein, and they've
got the same sort of basstapping style, which I love.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(55:02):
So, and this song, has.

David (55:04):
Like this song has all kinds of cool time signatures in
it that change, but likethey're not so abrupt to where
you're.
Like, if you don't know abouttime signature whatever, like
what the hell is going on?
Yeah, it's just.
I mean, it's just.
To me it's like a masterpiece,and not just the song but this
performance, and this is whatspecifically drew me to this
video when I, when I came acrossit, like I said, I've been

(55:26):
listening to ginger just through, like you know, audio, um, but
when I was down there and I wasjust poking around youtube and
watching other metal stuff andwhatever reaction videos, right,
this comes up in, like anyonewho's ever done a reaction video
to something has done it tothis, because it's just,
everyone's face gets melted.
Carolina, like you said, it'slike that's the same person, so,

(55:47):
yeah, so I'll talk a little bitmore about the song and how it
was with my healing, but I'llrelate it to why I chose this
song, to talk about my actualtreatment dose, that main dose,
because she's playing these twoparts in this song, right, we've
got this sort of more.
I don't know the technical term, I'm not a singer, but the

(56:10):
clean vocals, right, which isbeautiful and calm and melodic,
and then we've got the growl andthere's just demonic sound, um.
And that's a perfect examplefor what my 12 hour main
treatment was like Um.
So to go into you know a littlebit, set the stage and kind of

(56:30):
tell you what that experiencewas like Um.
So at beyond, most people dothis.
They call it the flood dose,cause it's like I said, it's
that heroic dose, that highlevel dose, which gets you all
these psychological benefits andaddiction benefits.
They normally do them duringthe day, so you normally start
at like 7 am and then you'redone by like 7 pm.

(56:51):
They do that becauselogistically it's a lot easier
to have the medical team andstaff all there during the day,
right, do that becauselogistically it's a lot easier
to have the medical team andstaff all there during the day,
right.
But when I was there there wasjust a number of us that were
kind of lined up such that we'regetting our flood doses those
same days, because a lot ofpeople that come in with
addictions their timeline is alittle bit flexible, because

(57:12):
those first few days they haveto detox and be clean to start
the treatment, and so it can,you know, and so we just had a
number of people lined up thatwere supposed to go on this this
one day and there's only threetreatment beds in the room to do
it, so they can do maximumthree at a time.
And so the CEO was there youknow he's very involved at the

(57:34):
site and stuff and he talked tome and another person and asked
if we would, we would beinterested in doing a night
treatment, right, so starting atsix at night through 6am, and
he, you know, talked me allthrough it, told me about it.
He's like no pressure, you cando what you want, I'm not going
to force you.
But he did bring up and saidyou know, hey, there's, there's
cool aspects to doing it atnight.
He said he was almost like youknow, I would do a lot of them

(57:57):
at night if I could, but justlogistically we can't.
And so I was like no, that'scool.
And we sort of talked and heardmore about my story and things
and I said how so much of thetrauma I experienced happened at
night.
Or one of my big symptoms was Iwas having terrible, terrible

(58:18):
night terrors where I was wakingup, you know, throwing up, and
I was in full panic mode.
And so, like it got to thepoint where I didn't even want
to go to sleep because I didn'tknow what was going to happen,
and so he and I together kind ofcame up with this slogan of
reclaim the night.
That was our, my kind oftagline.
So, yeah, we're going to do thetreatment at night because
we're going to reclaim the nightfor you.
And so we did a fire ceremony,because the traditional way this

(58:39):
medicine comes from a plant inWestern Africa, in Gabon, the
Iboga plant, and the peoplethere have been using it for
thousands of years.
And when they do theirceremonies they do it at night
because they have a whole fireceremony and then go into the
treatment.
So when they do them at nightat Beyond, they kind of recreate
that.
So there's a fire ceremony andwe did the thing.
When they do them at night atBeyond, they kind of recreate
that.
So there's a fire ceremony andwe did the thing.

(58:59):
We go into the treatment room.
Like I said before, this issome of the best like medical
care I've gotten, in the senseof you didn't feel like just a
piece of meat that they weretrying to just, you know, either
crack open and fix whatever waswrong or something.
There's a spiritual, kind ofhuman, emotional component too.
So you go into the treatmentroom, you get on, you know it's

(59:19):
a regular hospital bed withhospital monitors and stuff.
Like we said.
They hook you up to the EKG andeverything like that.
They're monitoring that all thetime.
It's one of the risks of themedicine.
They have to monitor your EKG.
They can control it with things, but you have to monitor it, um
, and you get ready and thenthey come over and, um, they

(59:40):
have the.
The there comes in like acapsule form, the powders in
like the capsule, but they bringit on this, like you know,
slice of wood with a flower andit's like the lighting is real
low.
So it has this very kind oflike a ceremonial aspect to it.
Um, you take, you take the meds,water, you lay back in the bed
and then you, they give you, youhave headphones on and anyone

(01:00:02):
who's been, you know, remotelyfamiliar with psychedelics in
any way, this has been going onfor, you know, since the 60s and
stuff in the US with with thisof like you're, you're, what the
psychedelic does is it gets youout of your rational conscious
mind up here and allows you toget into that subconscious.
You know part of your brain andstuff, and the way that you
help that along is by cuttingoff some of your normal senses.

(01:00:25):
So if you have headphones on,they have a playlist that they
play through.
It's got different kinds ofkind of.
You know what you would almostthink of as psychedelic music,
but also some traditional Gabonmusic in there too.
You know.
Calling back to the where thisplant came from, uh, you have an
eye mask that you pull down, soit just is like a blackout mask
, um, and so, yeah, you lay backin the bed, you're in the

(01:00:47):
hospital bed.
Um, it takes about 45 minutesor so for the for the medicine
to start take effect.
And, um, the first thing youfeel is you feel it go through
your body, you feel like warmand then you start feeling it go
into your bloodstream and itwas wild because it felt like
little worker bees kind of goingthrough my body, like they're
going around and I'm like, oh myGod, they're going in there and

(01:01:10):
stuff.
Then the sort of psychedelictrip I guess is what you would
call it is in two phases.
This medicine works in twophases.
The first phase they call thevisualization stage which is
more just where you're sort ofgoing to see visions and things
are going to come up for you andyou're kind of just along for
the ride.
You're just going to watch.
Once that, that lasts about twoto three hours.

(01:01:31):
Once that ends, you transitioninto the second phase, which is
much more of a dialogue, whereyou can sort of have the visions
from your subconscious but youcan kind of engage with them in
ways and kind of work throughthem.
The first part I call it likekind of the dark forest I liken

(01:01:52):
it to where Tatiana gets thatgrowl part, because that's kind
of the intense part where themedicine is going to go in and
go to those dark places thatyou've been avoiding.
Right, when that's really howthis medicine works.
Our conscious mind can only doso much, because when I used to
say this in therapy I'd say I'mnot lying, but I feel like I'm
not getting to what's reallythere, because you're thinking

(01:02:14):
of all these things, of whatstory should I tell?
What's this?
This kind of removes that andjust gets down to what's going
on underneath.
I'll say a person who was doingit with me, my Ibogaine buddy,
as we called it afterwards, hisvision, a vision he had during
this time was he saw this visionof kind of this like creature
coming in, think of like ghostof Christmas future, you know,

(01:02:36):
kind of just dark, like you know, looking like creature coming
in, think of like ghost ofChristmas future, you know, kind
of just dark, like you know,looking like um, you know death
or something like that, and hewas like, oh shit, I'm like this
, this person's going to harm me.
This creature walks up and he'shaving this vision.
You know um reaches into hischest and pulls out this just
black blob and walks out of theroom.
And so is this kind of of like.
What this first phase is likeis the medicine's just going in

(01:02:59):
and it's just kind of rippingout whatever bad shit is in
there.
For me I didn't really have alot of visions.
Mine just felt kind of like anexorcism.
The medicine does make younauseous and so I did have some
vomiting, vomiting and thingsand I had some visions of just
kind of like.
It almost felt like combatwhere there were people lurking

(01:03:22):
everywhere and things.
But I wasn't really seeing alot of visions.
It was just kind of this like,like I said, exorcism these two
or three hours Now for anyonethat's listening.
You're probably saying toyourself that sounds awful,
there's no way I'm doing that.
You're probably saying toyourself that sounds awful,
there's no way I'm doing that,and I would agree with you,
right?
If someone had told me that,like before, I might've been

(01:03:42):
like oh, I'm not so sure aboutthis.
However, that's the wholereason why you're there, right,
you have this sense of like thismedicine is able to get in
there and get to what youhaven't been able to get through
in the traditional talk therapy.
The good thing, though, is, oncethat phase ends, I had, you

(01:04:02):
know, it was this chaotic kindof experience cacophony of sound
and just like felt like combatand all these types of things
but all of a sudden, it justended, and it went from that
this sort of exorcism, feel tolike I was floating on the most
calm, serene lake in the mostbeautiful place you could
imagine, and it was just this,ah, this sort of freedom, and

(01:04:25):
what was funny about this for meis the first vision I had then
was of my dog, veers, sitting onmy chest, looking at me with
her kind of goofy little faceshe has, and just kind of like.
Looking at me like, hey, dada,hey, everything's going to be
all right.
And it was like 10 or 15seconds and then she was gone
and it was sort of like, okay,everything's going to be all

(01:04:46):
right.
And then for the next four tosix hours you have this
experience of having differentvisions.
I'm going to stop there, so Idon't go too far and let a few
questions, then I can tell youmore about what that second
phase was like for me.

Carolina (01:05:01):
I'll point out, just as you're describing this from
from what I understand and fromwhat you've shared, but just
thinking about people whohaven't experienced this, like
you're not immersed back in thisexperience, you're able to
remove your eye mask and kind ofsee the room.
You're not in like some crazyreliving of trauma that you

(01:05:23):
can't escape from.
Absolutely You're fully sort ofpresent and cognizant of your
surroundings.
The medical team is there tosupport you.
You can hear them, you can seethem, you can, you know those
kinds of things?
Yeah, yeah.

David (01:05:34):
You're fully like for lack of a better word conscious,
you know those kinds of things,yeah.
Yeah, You're fully like forlack of a better word conscious,
right, because it's not a drug,it's not a medicine that takes
that away from you.
So you can sort, you can be incontrol, like, and also to full
disclosure, not everybody'sfirst part was like mine.
Some people just kind of hadvisions and they might've been
kind of like intense in ways andstuff, but it wasn't as kind of

(01:05:55):
kind of combat like as mine was.
But, yeah, you're in fullcontrol in the sense of, as
you're going through thisexperience, you know, the the
more you cut off your senses,the more you're immersed in the
visions.
But at any time you can pullthe eye mask up and you're
you're, you're see the room, youcan move around.
I remember I had a journal withme and I turned around and

(01:06:17):
grabbed the journal and I wasable to write and take notes and
stuff like that.
You're in full control.
In that way you can control howdeep you want to take it.
And when I got into that secondphase, which we can talk about
a little bit more here, Iactually got into a rhythm of
sort of like okay, put the eyemask down, headphones in, lay
back, let the medicine show youwhat it's going to show you, and

(01:06:39):
then that would go on for maybe15 or 20 minutes.
It's a little hard to, you know, have a sense of time.
And then once I felt likewhatever that experience was
kind of ended, I'd pull my eyemask up, come back to the room,
you know, I'd pull out mynotebook take a couple notes of

(01:07:06):
what I saw and then go rightback in.

Raza (01:07:07):
So, yeah, you're, you're in control.
Um, can I ask what the pleasedo?
What was the?
Uh, what?

David (01:07:09):
was the method of the medicine.
Was it like an IV?
Was it a pill?
Yeah, so it was pills.
Um, on that tray they bring youit's.
It's just they look likeregular capsules, like like
Tylenol capsules, right, thepowder is inside and so, you
know, I think I had like 10 or12 pills for that.
You know, flood dose.
So, yeah, you just take it withwater and it just goes.
And that's why it takes aboutlike 45 minutes for the it to

(01:07:30):
take effect, cause it's got togo, you know, through and
process through your stomach orhowever.
You know I'm not a physiologist, but however it does that it's
got to go through that processto get into your, your system.
Um, so yeah, let me tell you alittle bit about my experience
on on the second phase which,like I said, connecting to this
song is when she's singing cleanand melodic and stuff like that
, this sort of peaceful, sereneexperience.

(01:07:52):
Um, so you do a lot of prepwork beforehand.
While you're there at Beyond,you have workshops every day
where you they were in theafternoon they're called prep
and integration workshops.
So if you haven't had yourtreatment yet, you're doing prep
work and it's you're doing,you're filling out stuff.
You want to ask the medicine,right.
And the way I kind of thefeeling I got from it is you're

(01:08:15):
doing this work, not becausewhen you're there you're sort of
consciously asking thequestions, but you're putting
those questions into that.
You know, sort of subconscious,that the medicine is going to
allow you to tap into.
And so you know I was askinglots of questions of like I want
to know, you know about mymilitary experience, what's this
?
Why did this?
Why did I join?
Why you know all thesedifferent types of things?
And there's a saying that theyhave about Ibogaine and it says

(01:08:40):
the medicine doesn't show youwhat you want, it shows you what
you need, right.
And so you can't control thevisions in the sense of be like
I want to talk to my dad, right,and have it come up what you
can do.
Another guy that was there withus he likened it to sort of
like a dating app.
Dating apps a person pops upand you can either decide to

(01:09:02):
swipe left or swipe right.
You can either decide to leaninto the vision or say no, I
don't want it, I want adifferent one.
It's like flipping through thechannels on cable.
It's not on demand.
You can't pull up whatever.
All you can do is flip throughand lean into what you want.
Um, and so my first visionactually after, like the vision
of my dog and stuff like that um, the first vision that came up

(01:09:23):
is I had a vision of my dad andI when I was like 10 years old
and it was back, you know, musicconnection, of course.
Uh, I'd been banging away onyou know, tennis rackets and
garbage cans and stuff in myroom, playing, playing along to
songs and stuff, and I had said,can we get a drum set?
And my parents were like, yeah,yeah, we can do that.
I don't remember the exactconversation, but we got to the

(01:09:44):
point where it's like, yeah,let's go to the music store.
And we were in there and we wesaw this, you know, entry level
five piece drum set.
Um, and we said, okay, yeah,that looks like the one.
And so my dad's like, okay,we'll get it.
I said, all right, now we justneed to get the cymbals right,
because it was a five piece, youknow, kick drum, two mounted

(01:10:07):
toms, floor toms, snare drum andthe cymbal stands and the
hi-hat stand.
But the cymbals were separate.
You had to get them separate.
And I remember my dad sayingand this is the vision I was
watching.
Again, like Carolina saidbefore, you're not reliving
these experiences, you'rewatching them from a
third-person perspective.
You're seeing it happen.
I'm watching myself and my dadkind of have this interaction.

Like you're watching a movie.
Yeah, like watching a movie.

David (01:10:28):
Yep, yep.
And when I said we just need toget the symbols, he was like,
oh, we'll do that next time.
And I remember being stuck inlike I was watching myself and I
had this experience of beinglike why would we get the
cymbals next time?
Like I understand, just sayingwe can't get a drum set right
now, but if we're going to getthe drum set, why would you not?

(01:10:50):
It's like to put it to good.
I was like that's like buying aguitar and say we'll just take
four of the six strings forright now.
And it's like, no, that's, theinstrument works by having the
pieces.
And and I remember thatexperience, like it wasn't like
I had no recollection of that inmy conscious mind or whatever,
but the medicine was kind ofshowing me this and what it kind

(01:11:12):
of.
The experience I had was, youknow, my dad suffered from
depression, from, you know, andalcoholism for most of my life.
That I can remember that itjust progressively got worse.
And what I realized in thatmoment, the experience I had, as
tears were running down my eyesas this was happening, was I
was able to forgive him for thatand a whole bunch of other

(01:11:35):
stuff because that reaction hehad this sort of like irrational
sort of decision of likebecause it wasn't because of
money, our family was doing welloff, it wasn't that.
It seemed just this irrationaldecision.
I was like I know exactly whatthat is, because with my PTSD
and anxiety and depression, I'vedone the same thing with our

(01:11:56):
daughter.
Right, these irrationaldecisions, because you're just
in this protective mode.
So it probably took my dadeverything he had to go to the
music store with me to get thedrum set.
But then this added decision ofbuying cymbals or something
like that was just kind of toomuch and he had to kind of just
protect himself and so I wasable to like forgive him for

(01:12:18):
anything he did or didn't do.
Not from a rational point oflike, I know I should forgive
him because, you know, humansaren't perfect, but because I
connected with him, I was ableto see myself in him and him in
me, and so this lasted for about20 minutes and it was just the
most beautiful kind of thing andI was able to just deal with

(01:12:39):
all of it right there in a waythat in conscious therapy one, I
never talked about my dad intherapy at all because I was
having, like these combatnightmares, and the VA was
always very focused on okay.
So what moments did youexperience?
Combat, and they want to get itdown to this one experience of
like here's where the bad shithappened.
So let's talk about that.

(01:13:00):
And what I've learned from thisjourney is that that's not
really how trauma works, right,you carry everything from before
into those environments, right?
So, yeah, it was just thisbeautiful moment.
And what was really crazy, Ihad a lot more visions after
that, but this was kind of thewaterfall moment because you
know, um, it, it.

(01:13:21):
It made me kind of see otherthings too.
Where I was, you know, trying tobe who I was.
I was a kid who was, you know,philosophical and stuff, very
young.
I was questioning Santa Clausat five and then questioning God
at like six years old and, um,I think my parents really didn't
know what to do with me, right,it was sort of like let's just
enjoy the holiday and stuff, andso I felt pressure, not just by

(01:13:46):
my family but by, you know,society, in ways to like be a
certain way, and like I can'tjust be a philosopher, I can't
be a musician, I've got to getlike the real job and do these
real things.
I always had ideas if I wantedto, like have a Mohawk and do
you know, like express myselfand always felt constrained.
And so I had this experiencewhere, you know, I could see how

(01:14:08):
many decisions I made wereaffected by that.
And so what really happened howthis helped me deal with all the
military stuff was I realizedthat I joined the military not
for myself but to seek approvalfrom all these other people.
Like if I go and do thishonorable thing and serve my
country and fight right after9-11, everyone will kind of just

(01:14:33):
respect me and then I can go dowhatever the hell I want and no
one can say anything right.
I remember saying it a lot.
I was like I don go do whateverthe hell I want and no one can
say anything Right.
I remember saying it a lot.
I was like I don't want toserve.
I want to have served in thesense of like I just wanted to
my background.
So it's kind of like the youknow the what do they call it?
The deflector shield, like inStar Wars.
You know this like thing thatno one can touch me Right, do
whatever I want.
And so once I reconciled awhole bunch of things before

(01:14:57):
joining the military and Irealized that I went in for the
sort of not my own reasons.
I was able to forgive myselfand the shame and guilt I had
from all the things that I didin the military or witnessed or
whatnot.
They were able to kind of likealmost just kind of wash away in
a sense, because I didn't haveto reconcile it anymore, because

(01:15:18):
I realized it wasn't justpurely me doing it.
So I was able to forgive myselfin these ways too.
Again blew my mind.
I still am in disbelief how themedicine was able to work and
kind of show you these thingsand have these experiences.

Raza (01:15:35):
So it almost sounds like what you were trying to
reconcile has been reconciled.

David (01:15:41):
Yeah, yeah, I mean there's still.
It's not a magic bullet.
They are very careful to saythe medicine is not magic, it's
not a cure, it is healing.
And so it's still like I'mstill me, I'm still aware of
certain things, I still getangry at stuff and different
things.
I'm not some saint now oranything, but, like you said, I

(01:16:05):
was able to work through andkind of process a whole bunch of
things that I wasn't able toget to in sort of regular talk
therapy.
Right.
It kind of got in there deeperin the sense of like that, that
sort of more, more moredifficult first part.
Feel like it just went in andkind of I actually made a
drawing of it.
It's like a sink with a bigclog in it, right, and the

(01:16:28):
therapy is trying to pull out ahair at a time, whereas the
medicine just went in and wentand just ripped all of that out.
And then that enabled me to bein a place in that second half
to kind of have theseconversations, watch these
things happen and process themat a deeper level than I was
able to before I know.

I keep saying mine Watching Gaza's face process
here.

David (01:16:53):
If I can say, if I didn't experience it myself and
someone else was telling me thisstory, I would be like okay,
sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, but Iwas there, I experienced it.
It was a life-changingexperience, for sure, without a

(01:17:14):
doubt.

And there's a lot of science that we are not prepared
to discuss about what Ibogainedoes to the brain and kind of
resets and gives you likeneuroplasticity that you didn't
have and we encourage you to godo that research and read up on
that.
But there is like actualscience too.

David (01:17:34):
We'll post some links to a couple of articles that
recently just came out aboutIbogaine and specifically
veterans, uh to that that talk alittle bit about that in ways.
Yeah, Cause there's definitescience behind it.
It was another one of their,their sayings that went up
around the screens.
It said we believe in science,but not above our compassion,
Right?
So this is not likepsychedelics and science is over

(01:17:57):
here and they leave that at thedoor.
No, the MDs and doctors andeveryone that's in here are all
about science.
They're doing the research onall this.
They're all of that, butthere's definitely the
experience of it.
It is something beyond just.
I went to a surgeon and theyput a plate in my leg for my
broken bone, right.

(01:18:18):
The experience of it issomething profound.

Yeah, and there is to the point of the science.
There's been a ton of studies.
Primarily, this drug was usedto to treat addiction, but
they've noticed that it's alsoreally, really beneficial to
folks suffering from anxiety,ptsd, um depression and, I even
think, ocd, so like there is,it's just the united states
stuff around psychedelics beingillegal just has sort of

(01:18:46):
screeched that forward progressand studies to a halt.
But around the world, in allthe other countries where it's
legal, there's a ton of studiesbeing done and research
happening.

David (01:18:57):
Yeah, and there's a big push right now.
There's things that arehappening that are bringing this
back up and so you know, partof doing this episode is also to
share my story for anyone elsethat might benefit from this, so
they can know about it, butit's also to get the word out
there so policies and things cancan hopefully start to change
here.
You know it's kind of theremnant of the sixties and the

(01:19:17):
you know anti-war movement andcounterculture that you know the
U?
S government kind of crackeddown on on these Um, and it's
been, you know, taking time to,you know, get back into the
research, but it's starting tohappen.

Raza (01:19:29):
So to you know, get back into the research, but it's
starting to happen, so, um, so,none of us are scientists, right
and um?
So, yes, I don't think we canany of us, I certainly won't
approach the science angle, Ithink, just at a very sort of
high level.
Um, I'll say that since you'vebeen back and since we've been,
you know, communicating and andand talked about a podcast and

(01:19:52):
and and and doing this show,I'll just say that you sound
like this, you sound like theDavid Reese that I that I know.
You don't sound any anydifferent.
You sound, you sound like thesame guy, right?
You don't sound like you hadthis amazing experience and now
you've turned into like Buddhaor something.

(01:20:20):
Um, it's, it's, it's it's thesame person, maybe more more
clear, headed, um and and and,uh, more clear, on, on, on, on
on the vision that that you wantto see, um, as far as this
podcast, as far as some of thegoals you know outside of this
in your life that you've talkedabout, and things like that.
So, yeah, so it sounds, soundslike my dude, dave, yeah.

David (01:20:41):
And that was going back to like my biggest concern
before going, one of the biggestthings I was worried about.
I wasn't worried about like thephysical health side, because
you know we had read all thestuff, and about their medical
protocols and everything likethat.
So I'm like I felt like youknow I'm in good hands medically
speaking, but, yeah, I wasworried about coming out on the
other side.

(01:21:01):
Yeah, maybe without PTSD anddepression and anxiety, but also
a completely different person.
Right, I was like am I going tocome out and just have
different values and differentthings?
And the way I described it, Ithink, in my first text I sent
to Carolina when I got back withmy phone, was it's still me,

(01:21:21):
but it's all of me and it's onlyme.
So that whole talk of I'm goingto fight through all of these
things to have me get out we hadto fight through all of these
things to have me get out.
The muck is just gone and soit's just a lot easier to be me,
but I'm still me, 100%, stillyou, yeah, still me 100%.

Raza (01:21:41):
Yeah.

So the drug, from what I understand, like physically
sort of acts a bit as astimulant.
So in the days after your flooddose you got kind of what they
call the Ibogaine glow.
You sort of feel just reallyamazing.
And then you have what's calledlike a gray day, where you're
just kind of on this ride rightof ups and downs as you kind of

(01:22:07):
come off that flood dose butyou're back in your room, and
downs as you kind of come offthat that flood dose, um, but
you're back in your room andyou're able to to listen to
music and and that kind of stuff.
So what, what song do you kindof connect with with those
immediate days after?

David (01:22:22):
Yeah, and so, um, no surprise, it's a song by Rush.
Surprise, it's a song by Rushand it is a song off their last,
you know studio release,clockwork Angels.

And it's a song called the Garden.

David (01:22:43):
The future disappears into memory Lonely moment
between Brotherhood dwells.
In that moment, hope is whatremains to be seen.

Raza (01:23:07):
Brotherhood dwells in that moment.

David (01:23:12):
Rubber dwells in our moment.
Hope is what remains to be seen.

Okay, so you know we talked about this being a bit of
a ride after your flood dose.
Why this song to encapsulatethat time?

David (01:23:36):
Yeah, so interesting.
This song was not one of mymore favorite Rush songs from
the past.
You know, I think it's a goodsong in the past and stuff, but
they Geddy, alex and Neil alwaysthey described this song as the
pinnacle of their musicalcareer in ways like this is the

(01:23:58):
song that they finally, like,put it all together and nailed
it kind of thing.
They're like the most proud ofthis song.
Um, and going back to what Iwas saying before too about like
not really paying as muchattention to lyrics, in ways
with Rush a little bit more,because Neil's the lyricist and
I'm a drummer and I like thewriting and so I pay attention.
But I think with this one Ididn't pay attention as much to

(01:24:20):
the lyrics and so it's a littlebit slower and I'm like no, I
want to rock, you know.
But when I listened to it after, like, I was back in my room,
you know, after the dose we justtalked about and things and I
played it.
It just hits so perfect.
And I can understand whythey're like this is a song
where we finally nailed it,because, you know, the whole

(01:24:42):
idea of the garden is we're thegarden.
You know, in a sense, we're, wetend to ourselves and we've got
to, you know, take care ofourselves.
And there's lyrics in therethat are all about, like, you
know, the past is a distantmemory, the future is there and
all we have is this moment.
And that just hits so wellbecause, you know, depression

(01:25:03):
and anxiety is basically beingnot in the present right.
Depression is about the past,anxiety is about the future.
So when you're living withdepression and anxiety, you're
not here now.
And when I came out of thatflood dose and you know, rode
the ups and downs, but when Ileveled back out, I felt so
radically in the present momentthat this song, just it went

(01:25:27):
from being like that's a goodsong, cause it's rush, of course
you know, to like this is nowthe song of all songs and I
totally get what they mean by it, how they like nailed it in
this way.
So, yeah, it just representsthat feeling of, of healing, of
not being stuck in the past withdepression or stuck in the
future of anxiety, just being inthe present moment and just

(01:25:50):
enjoying the present and all itcan be and not worried about
what happens next, because oncethat gets here, it'll be the
present and you just will enjoythat or deal with it whatever it
is, and you'll tend to thatgarden in the present moment.
You can't tend to the garden inthe past or future.
You can only tend to the gardenright now.

And I think that's super helpful because to the, to
the, to the extent that this isnot a magic bullet, this
treatment, this is not just cureyou and make you just happy, go
lucky in the present for life,like, you're going to have your
ups and downs, you're going tohave good and bad times.
Um you feel like the song andwhatnot kind of helps you

(01:26:32):
reconcile that you'll you'llstill have good or bad days.
Make you feel a little moreprepared for those.

David (01:26:38):
Yeah, and and like what the song gets out of, like, you
know, it's only in the present.
So you, you tend to that gardenand some days the garden might
be, might've gotten destroyed,right, maybe nothing grow, maybe
you had a rough winter orwhatever.
I'm not a farmer, so I don'tknow all the gardening stuff.
But, um, you know you got todeal with bad stuff, but the
only thing you can do issomething in the moment tend to

(01:27:02):
the garden, right, um, and so,yeah, it just makes me realize
and and kind of I was feeling it, but the song kind of brings
that up of like um, yeah, ifyou're, just if you're fully
present in the current moment,you're in, you'll, you'll know
what to do.
A saying that would they cameup of like you know what's the

(01:27:24):
secret to kind of living yourlife?
Right, how do you live a goodlife?
This is not not Rush, this isfolks at Beyond, because while
they have a medical team of likedoctors and nurses and all that
, they also have a team ofcoaches and sort of guides and
stuff that are there kind oflike we would think of it as
like a therapist.
Right, they're there to talkyou through all this because you

(01:27:45):
have these like kind of justeye-opening moments and then
you're just come out and you'rekind of raw, and so they help
integrate all of it.
That's why those afternoonmeetings every day were called
prep and integration.
If you haven't done thetreatment, it's prep, and once
you've done the treatment, it'sabout integration.
You're kind of putting thepieces back together because
it's kind of like my God, thisis the first time I've been able
to kind of feel all my feelingsand see all myself at once and

(01:28:09):
you're kind of like what do I?
What do I do?
It's like overwhelming.
I made the example of like it'slike I left and I had a 1986
beat up Toyota Tricel in thegarage and now I got home and
there's a Ferrari in the garage.
I still know how to drive, butit's going to take some getting
used to because you know it'sgot a lot of power and stuff.
So I might spin the tires alittle bit, spin out.

(01:28:29):
Hopefully I don't smash into atree.
But you know, like you gotta,you gotta relearn how to live
without all of that that muck.
Um and so a phrase when it wassort of like hey, how do we go
forward?
Um, it was a phrase I just love, and it was just two simple
things Be yourself and tell thetruth.
Right, got a nice thumbs upthere on that.

(01:28:53):
Be yourself, right.
And when you're mired indepression and anxiety and stuff
, it's really hard to beyourself because you're worrying
about what everyone's going tothink and you're trying to
prevent things from happening.
So just be yourself and thentell the truth, be honest, and
that's all you can do.
You can't control how otherpeople are going to react to it

(01:29:13):
and all these types of things,and I think this song gets at
some of those things about justbeing in the present moment.
You can't control the future,you can't rewrite the past.
All you have is that presentmoment.

Raza (01:29:25):
You know, the funny thing about this song is that there's
a song on Use your Illusion 1,also called the Garden, and
that's.
I remember Guns N' Roses and itwas.
It's about a hallucinogenictrip.

David (01:29:41):
Oh, shut up, All right.
Well, we've got to go back.
We'll have bonus.
I'll go listen to it and thenwe'll have a little bonus.
Short about, we'll talk throughthat song.

Raza (01:29:51):
What are the?

odds.

Raza (01:29:54):
It's Axl Rose's Voice and then Alice Cooper does this like
guest Vocals in there and it'sAbout, you know, basically Axl
tripping and going through thegarden, which is the garden Of
his mind, and you know Thingsabout I don't know, just.
Imagine A lot of stuff, a lotof stuff, and yeah, that's

(01:30:16):
awesome but it's the garden, ohwow that's cool, but yeah, um,
yeah, I don't.
I don't have much to add there.
I think uh rushed.
I'm glad it was a rush songthat triggered this emotional
state and this emotional resultcoming out of this trip.

(01:30:38):
It's cool in a way.
If it was Tom Sawyer orsomething, I'd be like, okay,
well, all right.
Something I'd be like, okay,well, you know, all right, but
right.
But the fact that it was a newrush song and something that I
don't know, it almost seems like, uh, like like a new chapter in
a way.

David (01:30:58):
It's like the old familiar, but yet something
completely different andsomething that they enjoyed and
and they selected as their, astheir pinnacle, right, right,
and so, yeah, it's like a, it'slike a reconnection with rush in
a way, because it's like, oh mygod, their song that they're
kind of one of the ones mostproud of I now have this
intimate connection with becauseof this experience.

(01:31:19):
So, yeah, it's just you know, Ithink it's why, subconsciously,
I put on the Rush shirt, like Ijust, you know, I've got a whole
number of black shirts, rushtool, all kinds of other stuff,
and I just grabbed the Rush oneand I think it's fitting because
, yeah, it really kind of bringsit all together, which is
another example.
However, I'm still me, right, Ididn't come out liking all

(01:31:39):
kinds of different music than Iused to and stuff like that.
No, if anything, I am just somuch more connected to these
bands, movies, books I've readit's been me through all of this
, right, and so all of my things, all the movies I really like,
I still like, and now I'm justlike, oh my God, yes, I like
them even more because now I canfully feel them and stuff.

Raza (01:32:02):
So, yeah, totally still me , although, if I go down this
path and I come back lovingChinese democracy.

David (01:32:11):
That's not gonna be good right, and that's what I was
concerned with.
I'm like am I gonna come outand have completely different
political beliefs and like allkinds of different stuff?
Um, but no, it was not that wayat all.
It's not it.
It didn't feel like it alteredyour mind.
In a sense, it allowed you tosee your full mind in some way,

(01:32:34):
like if that makes sense.

Well, I think we talk about for so many years and I'll
say that I've never knownanother David than this David.
Like, I met him right afterhe'd gotten out of the military.
I didn't know a younger versionof him, I didn't know.
You know what I mean.
So this is the only david I'veI've known.
Um, there there was a worry oflike one is he going to be a

(01:32:56):
completely different person?
But two, the only david I'veknown has been numb for so long
and so like to not have thatnumbness has been really
entertaining because he'sfeeling all the things like a
lot of like spontaneous kind ofcrying and laughing and just
like he's just feeling like allof it, because for so long I was

(01:33:18):
so numb from the depression andanxiety but also from the meds
that I was on before this werejust kind of they kind of numb
you.

David (01:33:26):
So, yeah, it can help to decrease the bad feelings and
thoughts, but it also numbs kindof everything.
So I'm just kind of feelingeverything again and there's a
learning process there, likethis, going back to what we say
the medicine isn't magic, right,I've had times since I've been
back where I've gotten angryabout something and it was
really hard to kind of like whew, because it's like I'm feeling

(01:33:47):
it fully.
Right, I'm not just angry atlike you know, I get the hell
out of my way, kid, but likethings that are like kind of
justified to be angry about,let's say, whether it's
something in the world orwhatever.
But like I got to like realizeagain the Ferrari.
I'm like there's a lot of powerhere.
Got to learn to drive again alittle bit.

So treatment is not the same for everybody as I
would imagine, and so all of youwho, I think, are doing
Ibogaine probably get the flooddose, but some folks get
additional doses or boosterdoses while they're there.
You did you got two boosterdoses.
I did two booster doses.
Yeah, did you got two boosterdoses?

(01:34:33):
I did two booster doses.
Yeah, um, so a little moreroller coaster for you.
What?
What song do you do youassociate with with those
additional doses, and maybevisions or things that you um
experienced?

David (01:34:41):
yeah.
So, um, just like it makessense that rush was a song in
here, it also makes sense thattool has a song in here.
Uh, I was definitely listeningto a lot of tool the whole week
I was there.
Um, having this experiencedefinitely connected me more to
tool and the lyrics and themessage, because it is this kind
of spiritual transtransformation and a lot of

(01:35:04):
their songs and connection tothe universe and these types of
things, and so this particularsong is Tool Parabola.

Let's process nodding in approval.

David (01:35:45):
Let's listen.

All right.
So so what?
What was it about this song?

David (01:36:11):
and feeling all of these things and all of the garbage
washed away and kind of ridingthe up and downs, because so
much of tools.
Music is about these kinds ofconnections and the spiritual
connection and things biggerthan ourselves and connecting
with the universe and one witheveryone.
But this song in particularjust has these, these ideas of
you know, um, all this pain isan illusion.
Right, this connection to likeI'm in this body but I'm not

(01:36:34):
alone in this body, right, it'smore than that and that was a
lot of the experiences I hadcoming out of it, of the main
dose and a lot of the otherthings we did while we were
there, because you have yourdose and, like I said, about the
afternoon meeting and stuff,but you're also like there's
massages that are available allday, there's different
meditations that are happening,there's all different kinds of

(01:36:55):
experiences that are kind ofconnecting you back to your body
in ways and connecting you backto your connection, a spiritual
connection with others, theuniverse, god, whatever your
belief system, is.
Doing that, right, somethingbigger than yourself, which is
powerful, because whatdepression and anxiety does, is
it really just kind of closesyour world?
Um, doing that right, somethingbigger than yourself, which is,
um, which is powerful, becausewhat depression, anxiety does,
is it really just kind of closesyour world off in a way.

(01:37:16):
Right, your world becomes justyou, in in this pain, um, and so
the medicine opens that up, andso do all the experiences, and
so this song just kind of, forme, represents that kind of like
opening up and connection.
And you know, we're in our body, but we're not just our body
and the pain is an illusion,because it's something so much
bigger than that.

(01:37:36):
So yeah, that's the connectionto the song.
Specifically, though, going tomy booster dose and experiences
I had there, so the booster doseis about a third of the amount.
So if I had 10 or 12 pills forthe flood dose, this was like
three, I think it was for methree or four, and so it's not a

(01:37:58):
12 hour journey, it's a twohour journey.
You don't have really too muchof a distinction between kind of
first phase and second phase.
It's not like chaotic and thencalm, it's much more, much more
smooth.
It's not like chaotic and thencalm, it's much more smooth.
And they do these booster doses.
I thought when I was there thatit was the people that were
battling drug addictions.
That did the booster dosesbecause the research shows that

(01:38:22):
doing these booster doses reallyhelps to get that drug
addiction kind of out of yoursystem.
But it's used for others too,and so me coming in with PTSD,
trauma and these types of things, I also got booster doses.
And so I got two booster dosesand my first booster dose was
just kind of like two hours ofjust kind of calm meditation.

(01:38:44):
Almost I didn't really have anyvisions at all, it was just a
time where I was very relaxedand kind of in deep reflection
and things.
I took a lot of notes aboutstuff.
But my second booster and Isort of went in with this
intention, remember, I said youcan't bring up things in while
you're on the IVA game, but youcan kind of plant seeds

(01:39:05):
beforehand and so you do thatprep work.
And for that second booster Iwent in with the intentions of
what's my purpose in life andwhat the hell am I?
I went in with the intentionsof you know what's my purpose in
life and what the hell am Isupposed to be doing?
For the rest of it Kind of inlike a professional sense of
like what do I do in the world?
And so I had, just like thesebeautiful, beautiful visions, of

(01:39:26):
two in particular.
One, again, remember, it'salways you're not experiencing
it, you're sort of watching itlike a TV.
And I had this vision of me onstage giving this like Ted style
talk, and the crowd, just youknow, all into it and I was up
there doing it and making allthese points and stuff and it

(01:39:47):
was just like amazing.
I mean, this was just liketears strolling down my eyes as
I was having this experience.
Because, again, these visionsare not like prophecy, it's not
telling the future, it's yoursubconscious coming out and so
giving talks I mean, I'm ateacher by training and stuff
and it's what I love to do, andso giving talks is something

(01:40:08):
that I had thought about wantingto do.
But what the medicine sort ofgives you is because I saw
myself doing it.
I now have no fear of doing itbecause in a sense, it's already
happened in some way.
I saw it happen and I saw it gobeautifully.
So now it's just, if thatopportunity presents itself and
I want to pursue that, there'sno fear there, there's no
anxiety about it, there's no any.

(01:40:29):
If that opportunity presentsitself and I want to pursue that
, there's no fear there, there'sno anxiety about it, there's no
, any of that.
And so that's like what themedicine kind of gives you in
these ways.
It's.
It's again, it's not tellingthe future in like a literal
sense, but it's those things inyou that you want to do your
dreams, that you kind of pushdown right.
Your rational mind pushes down,you're like like no, I could

(01:40:55):
never give a ted talk orsomething like that.
And the medicine sort of givesyou this gift of seeing it and
you're like no, you totally canlook, I'm showing you right now
so incredibly powerful.

Raza (01:41:00):
All the things that you sort of aspired to do or aspired
to want to do have been sort ofvisualized.
Um, you've already visualizedthe things that you, that you
have wanted to do but have notyet been able to do, exactly
exactly.
Yeah, that's.

(01:41:21):
I mean, that's powerful yeah,and not.

David (01:41:24):
And what's cool is this is what the medicine does and
takes it to a next level,because visualization is part of
therapy in all kinds of ways.
Right, you visual, like beforeyou go do anything they tell you
, you know, visualize yourselfdoing it and imagining it going.
Well, and you see it, butthat's up here, and so you're
fighting all of your doubts andall the other things people have
ever told you in your life.

(01:41:44):
The medicine gets you out ofhere and so it's just here.
So it's just that pure.
The medicine gets you out ofhere and so it's just here.
So it's just that pure likevision of it in, like without
any of like the talk from uphere and stuff.
So, yeah, really amazing.
The other vision I had thatreally stuck out in it was I had
a vision of a building in NewYork City and it was the

(01:42:07):
building of the publishing housethat's going to publish the
book I'm going to write, right,city, and it was the building of
the publishing house that'sgoing to publish the book I'm
going to write.
And so, again, not prophecy,not like, well, now I have to
write a book, but writing a book, I mean, I was working on my
PhD right, and we're about tostart my dissertation, which is
not necessarily a book, but it'sa book-length type of endeavor,
and so seeing that again justtook all the fear away from it

(01:42:30):
because it's like, yeah, if youwant to make it happen, it can
happen.
You don't have to be scared ofit, don't let anyone tell you
not, don't naysay yourself,don't talk yourself down about
it.
If you want to do it, you cando it.
So, yeah, just an amazing giftthat the medicine can give you.
And so this was just I hadtears rolling down my eyes and

(01:42:52):
like, when you're in thetreatment room this is something
I didn't mention before in thetreatment room there are nurses
monitoring you 24 seven.
They're right there with youchecking everything.
The doctors are in another room, they are getting reports from
the nurses of the EKG and stuff,and occasionally the doctors
will come through and just checkon every, you know, check on
the people doing doses and stufflike that.

(01:43:14):
So again, just that level ofsafety and care is exceptional.
But as people would come in likeI would have these visions, so
I had the vision of the TED talkkind of thing, and then I like
I said I would pull the eye maskup and kind of take notes and
I'm just bawling because it waslike just the most beautiful,
like vision, you know, andnurses were coming by or a

(01:43:35):
doctor was coming by and theylike come in and they like check
on you, and this is what wasgreat about the entire medical
staff is they'd only just checkon you medically.
They're checking on you likeemotionally, spiritually and all
of it Right, because they knowthis experience.
And so one doctor came in andhe like held my hand and he was
like how are you doing?

(01:43:55):
How are you doing?
I was like I just saw thisvision of my life and it's
beautiful and I'm just likebawling and they're like you
know they're.
One nurse came in and this wasthe most beautiful experience.
I blew my mind.
He came in and he saw me justlike crying and stuff.
He didn't say a word, he didn'task me anything.
He like held my hand and hejust started saying things like
you can let the past go, itdoesn't have to control you I'm

(01:44:19):
paraphrasing here it doesn'thave to control you.
Just soak all this in.
It's all you, it's you know allthese beautiful things.
And I was like, wow, that'sgoing above and beyond as a
nurse and I thought that was itThen, like above your head, like
there's a shelf there and theyhave like some essential oils
and stuff.
He gets some essential oils andhe starts, like you know,
putting rubbing here, and he'srubbing my temple and stuff as

(01:44:40):
he's there and he's kind ofstill saying stuff and really
just you know, putting me atease, and I was like, clearly,
that's it.
Nope, he continued rubbing andthen he starts singing this most
beautiful song in Spanish aboutmy abuelita and that's the one
word I picked up and stuff, andjust this beautiful.
And it was like he didn't askme what I was going through.
He didn't ask anything, he justshowed up with this loving

(01:45:03):
kindness for me in this moment.
And so the medical staff thereyes, they've got the medical
stuff down, but it's so muchbeyond just that.
It's definitely like what theytalk about care of the whole
person, totally.
It's like a profound experienceyou had 100%, yeah, and another

(01:45:27):
saying they have that rotates onthe TV screens throughout the
house is we believe theexperience is the medicine, and
I couldn't agree more.
Yes, the medicine is key, itdoes a whole bunch of work, but
it's everything around it that'shappening before, during and
after that really makes theentire experience and the sort
of healing possible.

(01:45:49):
Like if I just showed up thereand I was in a hotel room by
myself and never interacted withanyone and just showed up for
the actual treatment doses andthen went back to my room, yeah,
I'd probably have some benefitfrom it, obviously from the
medicine, but I would not haveas a profound experience as I
did.
Yeah, I was able to connectwith the spiritual part of

(01:46:10):
myself that I think had been,you know, covered over for a
long time, and I mean spiritualhere in the like largest sense
of the term, not one religion oranything like that, but that
sense of like feeling connectedto others, feeling part of the
world or universe or all of thatlike, yeah, definitely profound
.

So, as your, as your time came to an end there and
this is our last song and you'rekind of processing all that you
experienced getting ready tocome home, to integrate back
into your life what was the songthat was part of that?
Just completion of the wholejourney there.

David (01:46:47):
Yeah, so this was a song.
This is not an artist that Ihad been following like tool or
rush for most of my life.
I came upon this artist bychance on my way down there, as
I was just kind of clickingthrough different music.
And you know, when you're inApple music or Spotify or
anything, you click a song andthen it's like suggest others
you might like, and so this songis by an artist called Kay Flay

(01:47:11):
, uh, and it's got tom morellofeatured in the song, and the
song is called tgif let's, let'stake a listen.

The world is filled with psychopaths.
So I wanna jank, I wanna fight,I wanna rage against the
fucking machine.
They tell me I can't be myself,but myself's all I can be.
I'm unique and I do it sevendays of the week.

(01:47:41):
I'm feeling free, but the worlddon't wanna keep me down.
See, I'm a king.
I won't let anybody take mycrown.
I'm about a Friday and I'mfeeling alive.
I'll do it my way Till the daythat I die.
Thank God it's Friday and I'mgetting some love.

Raza (01:48:00):
Little fingers up Till the Rico shows up.
Yeah.

That was awesome.

David (01:48:12):
Love it, it she's awesome , like I'd never heard of her
before and, oh my god, she'sthis badass.
Mixes like alternative withhip-hop and rap and indie pop.
Yeah, it's crazy.
Yeah, that was badass.

Um all right, sorry.
Back to your question here, um.
I love how I learned new stuffhere.
But um, so what, what, whatabout?
This song encapsulates justkind of the whole thing yeah.

David (01:48:40):
So I mean I said it a few times already of just the
feeling of having no fear.
Now, um, and this song justkind of represents that.
Right, I feel like you know alot of the depression and
anxiety and stuff is, you haveall of these ideas coming from
the outside world into you ofwhat you should be or what you

(01:49:02):
shouldn't be, and you're alwayskind of fighting against that.
You're trying to be yourself,but you feel constrained in ways
.
And now after that, but youfeel constrained in ways, and
now, after that, after all thetreatment and all the work, I
just am like unapologetically meand I have no fear about being
myself.
And so this song just is likethat, I mean middle fingers up

(01:49:23):
till the Reaper shows up, likethat's, that's it right.
Like fuck all of you all, andwhat you want me to do, I'm
going to be me until the day Idie.
I'll leave you all, and whatyou want me to do, I'm going to
be me until the day I die, right, and so it just like I said, I
heard it at the beginning of myjourney, before I actually had
the treatment, and I just lovethe music, cause I was obviously
listening to like raging atsome machine or something like
that.
So it suggested this cause TomMorello's in it and I I like the

(01:49:45):
second it kicked in.
I was like this is some prettyawesome stuff here.
And so, yeah, it just felt itfeels like the perfect anthem
for coming back into, not thereal world, but coming back from
the treatment center to myactual life.
Of this is kind of my anthemand maintaining of I'm going to
be myself and I'm going to tellthe truth and it's up to you

(01:50:07):
whether you want to stick aroundor not and that's all we can do
.
So, yeah, yeah, middle fingersup to the Reaper shows up.

Raza (01:50:13):
I love it.
It's cool.
It always sounds like likethroughout the experience I
don't know if it's, if it'schemicals or the brain chemistry
or the mix of both or whateveryou know all of it is, but
probably all of it.
Yeah, the experience Right,both or whatever you know all of
it is, but probably all of it.
Yeah, the experience right.
Yeah, and not not just thetreatment experience, but the

(01:50:34):
experience of your life,filtered through this experience
, and and and and and uh, andwhatever changes and shifts may
have happened, but it's, it's.
It's really cool to see howyou're picking out things like
from the first song, from from,from, from a scene or or, or

(01:50:54):
dream, or or, or a scene withyour dad, to then now not full
circle, but but this nextchapter.
But it's basically, it seems,like the medicine, the
experience, the treatment center, all of it.
It's allowed you, your brain,to process positive and happy

(01:51:17):
notes that are already there.
They may have been sort ofsubconscious, but it's there and
it's helped you sort of pluckout those cherry, pick those
cool positive moments and maybere-appreciate them in a
different kind of way.
I'm sure you have to be underthe influence a little bit to
get to that state, but that'skind of what I'm getting Right

(01:51:38):
and that's where the medicinecomes in right.
Yeah.

David (01:51:41):
It's not just the medicine, it's everything around
it, like you said, of how youset this up, the questions you
ask, the issues you're coming inwith, whatever all these things
.
The medicine is just like this,like boost to really get you to
this.
Yeah, it's doing the same thingthe talk therapies and
everything else.
It's not like I was doing allthis talk therapy and then I
went and did this and this wastelling me something entirely

(01:52:02):
different that the talk therapywas trying to get at.
No, everyone's trying to get atthe same thing of like, get rid
of all the like crap that'skeeping you down, so you can
just be you in the world.
So, yeah, and this really goesback to that idea of like it's
still just me, but now it's,it's fully me, and so I'm just

(01:52:25):
excited to be me, with no fearand no anxiety around what
people are going to think, likeI used to, man, when I was at my
worst, I'd be like I couldn'tsit, still I'd be out somewhere,
and I'd be like adjustingbecause I'm like my shirt's not
right, people are going to saysomething, stuff, and now I'm
like, hey, today I decided towear, you know, a whatever and I
don't care what you think,because I'm just wearing it for
me and I even have ideas.

(01:52:47):
If someone's like, oh, youthink that shirt's appropriate,
or I can't believe you wouldwear that and be like, well, I'm
not wearing it for you.
So it's good if you don't likeit or not, because it doesn't
matter, because I'm not wearingit for you.
Right, this just reconnectionto like, being authentically you
.

Raza (01:52:55):
I don't know if it was yoda or if it was which, which
one of the great you knowthinkers but I know I've heard
this somewhere, which is thatyou know um, like a child or a
student goes and, and then it'slike I'm seeking all these
answers and and, and I guessit's yoda or you know um.
You could replace yoda withwhichever one of your you know

(01:53:18):
philosophers, but you don't getit right.

David (01:53:20):
We're gonna get tons of comments, but that's cool
because I don't drive it's yodatraffic to the page yeah yeah,
yoda was in star trek, rightright, that much I know, oh my.

Raza (01:53:31):
God, yeah, that's for me, but basically so Yoda's response
, or Yoda in quotes, theresponse would be you know, my
child, the answer you speak lieswithin you.
That's what I'm getting.
The answer's already there.
This thing is helping you 100%.

David (01:53:49):
Right, and, since you brought that up, there's also
that phrase and I think it'sYoda, but it's like you must
unlearn what you've learned, andthat's a lot of it too, because
the unlearning is all of thosevoices you've been hearing that
have been trying to put you in acertain box or make you not be
who you are.
You've got to unlearn all that,right, and yeah, it's exactly

(01:54:13):
that.
And related to that too is theother like interesting thing
about it, kind of, like I said,with the forgiveness of my dad,
I also kind of have forgivenessfor anybody and anything that's
ever tried to put me in a boxand make me be not something I
really wanted to be, because Iknow we all do these things
because of our own pain andstruggles we're going through,

(01:54:34):
right, people want to controlthings, they get scared of
difference and stuff, and so Idon't have this like anger
towards any of you know culture,society, parents, whatever.
That was like no, no, no, don'tdo that.
No, you can't be a musician asyour job.
You got to go get a real job oryou know these things we hear,
because I know where that comesfrom, right, and it comes from
those places of pain and fearand shame and guilt and

(01:54:56):
everything like that.
But when you flip that and youaren't operating under fear,
shame and guilt and you'reoperating around love and
kindness and curiosity, youdon't do that.
You're not threatened by others.
So you then want other peopleto be their full selves, and so
it's.
I know the last song was middlefingers up till the Reaper
shows up, but it's sort of justmiddle fingers up, like I'm not

(01:55:19):
going to listen to all that.
But I don't hate you allbecause I understand why people
do those things now in adifferent light.
But yeah, the answer is withinyou.

Nice, all nice all right, friend, that was your six
songs.
Yeah, how, how does it feeljust hearing these last profound
weeks of your life reflectedthrough these songs that carried
you through yeah, it's, it'sfunny because, you know, I've,

(01:55:53):
like we've said I've told thestory a few times already.

David (01:55:56):
Like I've told it to you, carolina, I, you know, I I
called my mom and I told her allthe stories and stuff like that
.
I told it to our daughter and,um, another friend or two, but,
um, but every time I tell itit's not just like a report of
facts, it's an experience initself, right, we talk about,
you know, I talked about how,after you have the treatment,

(01:56:17):
it's about integration, right,putting all the pieces back
together in a way.
And I feel like this experienceof doing it on the podcast with
the music in it you know Ipicked the songs, the songs were
there, I knew what the songswere, but hearing them again and
having this discussion with youboth, really just kind of it is
.
It's taken it to a next levelof sort of integration, in that

(01:56:38):
way of just like, yeah, this isme and so, yeah, it feels, it
feels amazing it's, it feelsfucking great.
Really, I mean, I can't likeit's the most amazing experience
of of my life in this sort oflike personal sense, right,
personal growth or personaltransformation or something like
that.

Raza (01:56:56):
So, yeah, I'm glad you chose to do that.
I'm, I'm glad you chose to dothis at this time, um, and I'm,
and I'm actually I'm super gladthat that you have this platform
to do this with.
Again, I'm just thinking of youknow, the David that I know

(01:57:22):
having to process all of thestuff before and then this
profound experience and thenusing the same platform to talk
about that experience.
So there's a lot going on here,man.
Yeah, totally.

David (01:57:39):
And I'll say not to go into too much detail about it,
but another vision I had in thatsecond booster when I had the
vision of the TED Talk and stuff.
I also saw the podcast andother things I want to do kind
of all tie together in thisbeautiful way of how, like this
podcast felt like an idea I justhad and we're like, yeah, let's
do it, this will be fun, maybewe'll get to talk to some of our

(01:57:59):
favorite musicians, orsomething like that.

Raza (01:58:05):
It'll be cool.

David (01:58:07):
But now I see how this endeavor of this podcast is
connected to the TED talk Imight give or the book I might
write and these types of storiesof transformation and help and
healing and all of this.
So, yeah it it really kind ofbrought everything together and
it's like, yeah, starting thepodcast when we did was the
right thing and again, it tookcourage to do that.

(01:58:29):
I didn't feel like it at thetime, but it did and it was part
of the healing process too, andso, like you said, to have this
platform now or this space tobe able to tell this story is
just yeah, it's awesome.

Now somebody might be watching or listening and saying
, look, you know, this guy isdoing like watching or listening
and saying, look, you know,this guy is doing like flipping,
amazing, right, he's, he's gotyou know, no fear, he's got all
of his like confidence back, hisjoy, all these things, which,
which is true, it's been amazing.
But somebody could think likeall right, so he's good here,

(01:59:08):
like doesn't need therapyanymore, doesn't need to like
we're just good to go, andthat's not.
That's not the case, right?
So can you share a little bitabout where you go from here?

David (01:59:17):
Yeah, uh, the example I would give um cause I mentioned
it before about a surgeon fixingyour broken leg, which I also
have experience with, um, youknow, you go into the surgery
and, yeah, they fix your boneand they put the plate on and
you're healed, you're better,but that's not the end of your
journey, right.
You're in a cast for a littlebit after that and then you've

(01:59:38):
got physical therapy.
You've got to kind of relearnto use the leg.
You've got to stretch thingsout, you've got to rebuild the
muscle.
You've got to do all thesethings.
Yes, the leg is healed, it'sfixed.
There's no danger to the leg,like my surgeon said.
Like, no, the leg with theplate on it stronger than any
other bone in your body rightnow You'll break every other
bone before that.
But there's still work to bedone.

(01:59:59):
And it's the same with this.
While, yes, the fear is gone,the anxiety is gone, I'm not
mired in depression.
I feel very much in the presentmoment and things.
There's still a lot of work tobe done to kind of.
You know, the way they describedit is that integration of like

(02:00:19):
I have to re learn how to livemy life because for so long I
was living it with PTSD, anxietyand depression.
So it's like it's great, youknow, but now I've got to figure
out how to do it.
I mean, we've had thatexperience, you know, in getting
back, you and me, carolina,right, we're sort of like, yeah,
it's great, I don't have this,but it's like it's different now

(02:00:39):
, right, cause I have no fear,which also means I don't have
much of a filter, right, so I'llsay things that before I would
have just kept to myself.
And so there's that of like,okay, wait, I can't just say
everything that comes to my mind, I've got it.
So, again, the Ferrari exampleis really true, right, I have a
Ferrari now, let's say, but Ialso can't get on the highway
and go 150 miles an hour everyday, or we're going to have some

(02:01:01):
real problems, and so it'srelearning all of that.
So, yeah, continued therapy, ormaybe not in a formal, with a
therapist, but like, there'slike people that focus on
psychedelic integration,coaching, right, that help you
kind of rebuild after thisprocess and kind of how you go
forward.
The other thing about it is youknow they say it there the

(02:01:23):
medicine is not a cure, it isnot magic, it is healing.
And going back to the.
We won't get into the scienceof it because I don't
necessarily know all the science, but one thing the medicine
does is it sort of resets yourbrain to a level of
neuroplasticity quote unquote,kind of a buzzword now but to
where it is much easier for youto create habits, right.

(02:01:46):
So we all know a kid at likesix or seven years old can pick
up stuff like this.
Right, they learn foreignlanguages super fast.
Us in our 40s, it's much harder.
That's because our you know,synapses and all the stuff in
the brain are much moreweathered in, right, they're
worn into it.
It's much harder to get out ofit.
What the medicine does is itsort of removes that and kind of

(02:02:10):
makes it easier to create newhabits.
So if you, like you weredepressed and you weren't
exercising and stuff, well, nowit's easier to start the
exercise habit.
Those barriers aren't there.
But it's just as easy to createnew bad habits, right, you're
sort of in this almostvulnerable state where you know
they talk about, especially withthe people that were struggling

(02:02:31):
with drug addictions, right,like if you go back home and you
go right back to your samegroup of people doing those same
things that you left from,you're going to develop those
habits again and you'll be backthere, right.
And so it's work now on thebackside to continue to develop

(02:02:52):
those habits you actually want.
And some of those habits arethe ones we learned there, right
the meditation and differentthings that can help you stay
grounded and focused and not getoverwhelmed by anger and these
other things.
And so, yes, it is still work.
It is not a magic bullet, but Iwouldn't trade it for anything
in the world.
I'd said that when I was there.

(02:03:14):
I was like if someone walked upto me today and said, I will
give you $100 million right now,but you will be back where you
were before you went down tobeyond and the Ibogaine
treatment, I'd said no way, notin your life, no way, absolutely
not.

That's awesome.
I know I'm your spouse and I'msuper happy for you, but I'm
super happy for you.

Raza (02:03:37):
Yeah.

Yeah, all right.
So in the few minutes we haveleft here, you know, tell folks
what you've got going on.
We're excited for a season twoof this podcast or our second
album, and for the people whomight be interested in what
steps they may take if they'restruggling with trauma, anxiety,

(02:03:58):
pt or addiction, maybe somesteps if they want to look into
Ibogaine or the Beyond Clinic.

David (02:04:06):
Yeah, yeah for sure.
So, yep, we've got, you know,season two of this podcast.
This is the.
You know this is the firsttrack that we're releasing, if
you will.
We've already got guests linedup so there is more in the store
.
We've got all kinds of goodguests coming and we're going to
have more conversations ontelling people's life stories

(02:04:26):
and key life moments throughmusic.
So, you know, you know thedrill, like and subscribe and
all of that.
So you, you hear those episodes, um, and yeah, for anyone out
there that is um, uh, struggling, whether it's with addiction or
veterans with PTSD, depression,anxiety, all of it, um, my, my.

(02:04:49):
The thing I would want to say toyou all is take the first step.
The first step is, is is mostlikely for me, you know, is the
scariest right.
Take that first step and thenjust keep saying yes to whatever
people offer right.
Not whatever people offer right.
No, we won't, not not the badthings, but any types of

(02:05:12):
treatment and therapy and thenext group and the next group
and stuff like that.
Just keep saying yes and andyou'll get there.
And if you specifically want,you know, to look into, you know
, psychedelic treatment, youknow I went to beyond.
It's B, e, o, n, d.
We'll have links in the shownotes.
But I went to Beyond for mytreatment and you know I would

(02:05:35):
highly recommend it to anyone.
There's a number of othertreatment centers around.
So you know, look around, findwhat feels right to you.
Don't feel pressured to doanything you don't feel
comfortable with.
If it feels wrong or sketchy,it might be and that's what you
know.
That's why I can stand byBeyond so much, because it never

(02:05:55):
felt that way at all.
It was the greatest experienceof my life.
So definitely check them outand you can always reach out to
us through the podcast.
You know a life in six songspodcast at gmailcom.
Send us a message, reach outand we'll try and point you in
the right direction or at leastchat with you and find out where
you're at and try and get yougoing in a better direction.

(02:06:17):
It does get better.
You're not alone.

Stay with us, stay here alright, our fearless host,
would you like to send us off?

David (02:06:41):
alright, everybody.
Thanks for listening to another.
All right, our fearless host,would you like to send us off
ibogaine or other psychedelictreatment?
Share it with people who mighthave a more rigid view around
this type of treatment so we cancome to normalize psychedelic
treatment.
Share it with your local, stateand federal government
representatives so we can getthese medicines approved for
medical use in the US.
Again, thanks for listening andwe'll see you next time on A

(02:07:05):
Life in Six Songs.

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Bonus Ep. - Melodies of Resilience: A Soldier's Path to Healing Through Psychedelics

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Bonus Ep. - Melodies of Resilience: A Soldier's Path to Healing Through Psychedelics