Ep. 10 - Becoming Your Favorite Self: Finding Your Voice in Philosophy and Punk Rock - A Life in Six Songs

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
MIN.
Shortly it stopped, but nowwe're playing this little piece
of music.
Yeah, it started growing, butnow it's loый at its time.
I don't know what comes to mindwhen I see MUSIC.
She says wrong songs in a longtime.
Alright, it just started.

David (00:22):
What about you?
Hey everybody, welcome toanother episode of a life in six
songs.
I am your host, David Reese,and I'm joined by my co-host,

(00:46):
Carolina and Raza.
Hey, hey.
Hi there.
For those of you new to thepodcast, and this is the first
episode you're checking out eachweek, we embark on an epic
adventure to find the songs thatare stuck to us like audible
tattoos, that tell the story ofwho we are and where we've been,
to help us figure out wherewe're going to go.

(01:06):
It's a story told through sixsongs.
Let's go have a listen together.
Our guest today is FuldenIbrahim Hakkulu.
She is an associate professorof philosophy and gender and
women's studies at Middle EastTechnical University in Ankara,
turkey.
She's also a punk musicianplaying guitar and singing, and

(01:29):
has played in several feministpunk and metal bands over the
past 20 years.
They recently finished touringNorthern Europe with her band,
emasculator, and released adebut full-length album with her
band Literally Anything BeforeBros.
I Know Fulden from our timetogether in grad school at the

(01:53):
University of Oregon.
Fulden, welcome to A Life inSix Songs.

Fulden (01:59):
Hi, thank you.
Thanks for having me.

David (02:01):
Yeah, we're super excited Me too, yeah.
So to get us started, before wedive into your six songs, we've
got six great songs and storiesbehind them.
But before we do, just to kindof set the stage, tell us how
you see music fitting into yourlife.
What role does it play?

(02:23):
How do you see it?

Fulden (02:26):
Well, obviously it plays a really major role, given that
I spend a lot of time playingmusic and listening to music.
I do need to listen to musicbecause it's also a great source
of inspiration for the stuffthat I write as well.
But writing songs has been apart of my life ever since I was

(02:49):
a little kid.
It was actually like a game forme.
I would come up with thesemelodies, I would write some
lyrics.
They were like very childishsongs, obviously, but I would
have a lot of fun doing that andI would also have these tapes
which I would record on justsinging these songs that I hear

(03:12):
on the radio and on TV, butsinging them really terribly.
So it's a big part of my lifereally.

David (03:24):
Yeah, yeah, oh, I love that.
Yeah, I want to.
I want to hear some more aboutthose songs from your youth.
Those are the best.
That's great.
I'm going to pass it over toCarolina.
Who's going to get us startedwith your first song?

Carolina (03:41):
Yeah, all right, I love your intro there, that
you've been doing this since youwere a really little kid it's
always so interesting to me whatsticks with folks at what age
and so you felt a connection tomusic from very, very young,
which is really, really cool,and you do write and perform, as
we noted, but you listen tomusic also throughout your day,

(04:05):
and so for our first song, we'llask what's a song that's
intimately connected to anotheractivity, whether it's like a
book or a location or a trip?
What is it and what was thatactivity?

Fulden (04:17):
For me I would say that it's Baby One More Time by
Britney Spears, which was hervery first song.
Well, the song that shereleased, which she came to be
known for, and she got reallybig with that, in Turkey as well
, which is where I grew up, andI got a cassette of it, of this

(04:40):
album, after having seen a musicvideo, I think initially, and I
would always play this cassettein the car.
So during those trips that wetook with my dad traveling from
our hometown, izmir, to mygrandma's house in Didim, which

(05:01):
is like two hours or so away, wewould always listen to this
cassette.
And I think it would kind ofdrive my dad crazy, because he
did not like pop music at all.
He was such a rocker and hewould always want to listen to
Queen or Pink Floyd or RollingStones and classic rock.
But I love this cassette, andhe wouldn't say anything about

(05:27):
it, but I could kind of tellthat he disliked it.
So this song, whenever I hear it, and I think it's a killer song
, I think it's become a classicover the years and at that time
my dad had this perspective.
He would tell me you know, popis like a bubble it's going to

(05:49):
burst, but rock is forever.
Like he had to understand.
But I think still.
I mean this song really didbecome a classic of sorts and I
still listen to it sometimes andit always takes me back to

(06:10):
those trips that we took.

David (06:12):
Let's take a listen and go back to those trips.
For anyone that hasn't heard,here's Britney Spears.
Maybe one more time.

Carolina (06:54):
How does it feel listening to it now?

Fulden (06:57):
Well, it feels wonderful , very nostalgic, yeah, yeah.

Carolina (07:02):
Is this the song?
Is this the video where she'sgot like the red leather output?
No, I think that's toxic.

Fulden (07:11):
This one.
The video is like she's a highschool student.
She's just like waiting for theclass to be over and then,
during the break, they all startdancing.

David (07:22):
Right, yeah, yeah.

Carolina (07:24):
Spontaneously burst into song and dance in high
school.

David (07:27):
This is that video that spawned so many Halloween
costumes and other cosplay,because it's the you know, the
schoolgirl dress and she's gotthe white shirt on, but it's
like open and tied, I think.

Fulden (07:44):
Yeah, like the pink pom poms on her head.
Yes, yeah.

Raza (07:49):
Catholic schoolgirl outfit right, Right, right.

Carolina (07:53):
I think so Definitely like a private school situation.

Raza (07:55):
Private school.

Carolina (07:57):
I think we've talked about this in other episodes,
about parents and kids, and,like music that you know,
parents either put up with orpassed down to their kids, and
so kudos to your dad for notdigging the music but letting
you like, enjoy it.

Fulden (08:12):
Well, yeah, it's funny because I, right before Britney
Spears, I was really into SpiceGirls and I didn't speak English
at the time.
So I would show my dad allthese lyrics and ask him so what
are they saying in this song,what is this song about?
And he would always look at itand he would say this song is
about dancing.
Like you want to say the samething.

David (08:35):
That's awesome.
What are?
They saying Nothing.
Nothing important, they're justdancing.

Raza (08:42):
Well, I think compared to you know some of the classic
rock themes like Queen and PinkFloyd and stuff.
I think, yeah, the Spice Girlsand Britney Spears and some of
the more popular bands.
It's just completely randomstuff, seemingly.
It's either that or you knowyour first crush or your first
love or whatever.

David (09:03):
Yeah, I think it's like that thing of you know, this is
a, you know a no judgmentpodcast, in the sense of we're
not critiquing what anyone'slistening to or not, because
that's not the point, but justto kind of say it a little bit.
It's sort of like that idea ofI think some people can dig on
some kind of music, whether it'spop music or whatever it might

(09:23):
be, just because, oh, it's notas technical, it's not as deep,
it's not as whatever.
But it's like music can servedifferent functions, right.
It's like food right, there'sdifferent kinds of food.
A waffle and eggs, maybe in themorning, is great, but you know
, if I have soup in the morning,maybe that's not as good, and

(09:44):
so it's matching it to the rightthings Exactly.

Fulden (09:48):
Like you wouldn't want to go to a club and then hear
hardcore punk or something.
I mean, if you go to that kindof a club, yeah right, but you
wouldn't want to, like, go tojust dancing and hear something
completely different.

Carolina (10:05):
I'm not dressed for I'm not dressed for.
Mashing Like this is Exactly.
And then bring band-aids and afirst aid kit?
I don't know, I've neverwatched before.

David (10:16):
Oh, we got to change that , then, do we?
No To turkey, let's do somemashing all together.
Oh, my God.

Raza (10:25):
Do they have mosh pits in Turkey?

Fulden (10:27):
Oh yeah, of course.

Raza (10:29):
Really.
Oh, I'm learning, that's great.

Fulden (10:33):
Yeah, you should come to one of our shows.

Raza (10:37):
I, I intend, yeah, at the end of this podcast.
I intend to.
I think it's going to be a lotof fun, Definitely.

Carolina (10:43):
That's right.

Raza (10:44):
I know, I mean obviously in Europe and Europe and South
America are super, you know, bigfans of heavier music, but it's
always odd, I know like inDubai they have like the Desert
Rock Festival and some other,some other countries it's it's
coming up.
There's this cultural componentas well.
It's like new.
It's new for for for somepeople, as it was in the States

(11:07):
and in Western countries too.
But yeah, no, that's great tohear.
I will plan to mash in Istanbulnext time I'm there.

Carolina (11:17):
I was going to say, David, write that down.
When a, when a life in sixsongs goes on tour, where are we
going?
Yeah, we'll be to watchFulton's band.

David (11:26):
Have to Definitely, definitely, live stream it.
Yeah, and it's funny too, causein like, even in the US talking
about like mashing, I don'tknow how we started with Britney
Spears and we got to mashing,but here we go.

Carolina (11:39):
We're we're.

David (11:40):
We're teasing what's coming up next, but even a lot
of places here in the in theStates are starting to try and
limit.
You know mashing and you knowstage diving and everything else
.

Fulden (11:54):
And so yeah, yeah.

David (11:56):
Well, I think it's just because you know the US is very
litigious, right, it's all aboutlawsuits and you know things
like that, and so places justdon't want to deal with it and
they're just like no, it's notthat there's nowhere, but it's
just you definitely see it, yousee it around, so anyway,
smaller clubs.

Carolina (12:20):
So we kind of started a bit with with your childhood
and riding in the car andlistening to some pop music and
somewhat like happier times.
But you know life, life is ajourney with with ups and downs,
and so for your next song,what's a song that either maybe
you've listened to during adifficult time, has helped you

(12:40):
through a difficult time orsituation, and what was it?

Fulden (12:44):
A song that's helped me through a difficult time is
Teenage Horror by Hall, whichwas one of the first times where
I got introduced to grunge andpunk and I then I identified a
lot with Courtney Love at thetime actually, because she was

(13:05):
bullied a lot in school and Iwas bullied a lot and I very
much felt like an outcast andshe was the queen of outcasts
basically.
And I know that she has a lotof bad rap and at the time too,
but I kind of understood whereshe was coming from, at times at

(13:29):
least.
And we're both cancers, that'sthe other thing.
But that song really helped mego through a lot of those or
process a lot of those feelingsof being an outcast.
It's basically about a girltelling her mom or whatever hey,

(13:52):
like I'm a teenage whore andyou know it's, it's just what I
am and like I don't care whatyou think.
And I also had that veryrebellious phase as well.
And it also helped me see awhole different kind of a world
where I wouldn't necessarilyhave to be afraid of being slut

(14:14):
shamed which was something verycommon, especially in high
school like you want to get alittle intimate with someone and
then all of a sudden you'rebeing slut shamed for it, and
especially in Turkey, wherepeople, a lot of people, have
these conservative ideas aboutromance and sexuality.

(14:41):
So it was like a song thathelped me sort of break away
from all of that, and, yeah,it's a great song.

David (14:55):
Let's take a listen.

Carolina (15:30):
How's it feel listening to it now?

Fulden (15:32):
It feels really powerful .
Yeah, yeah, it's one of my alltime favorite Paul songs.
I think and it's from thisalbum that I think their first
full length album which is superdark, and when I first started
playing punk, I wanted to soundlike that.

(15:54):
I wanted our music to soundreally dark and powerful and not
like the happy punk that we'reoften used to hearing on the
radio.
Yeah.

Raza (16:06):
Yeah, she's got an amazing voice.
Courtney Love does.
I don't think she gets enoughcredit.
I remember thinking back to orright now thinking back to, the
90s and when Grunge and thoseand that genre of music was
coming up.
We always are usually myreference point for whole and

(16:31):
Courtney Love was sort of badthings but not really delving
into the issues that she wastalking about and there's a lot
of darkness and substance thereand it's cool to see you know so
many years later how yourelated to some of the things

(16:53):
that she was talking about allthe way back then.
So it's cool to see that.

Carolina (17:00):
Yeah, we've talked across a few episodes of like
some of those kind of femaleleading either it was like
Grunge or more alternative bandyou know, from Melanus
Morissette to Fiona Apple to youknow, and I felt like you know
they sort of made the mainstreamright.
They were popular, they were onthe radio that kind of thing,
but there was still sort of likethis kind of mainstreamy

(17:22):
likability about them.
And I remember the first time Isaw Courtney Love and just like
in awe of just how authenticallyherself she seemed like this,
just not giving any fucks aboutwhether she was likable or not.
And for people who are a littlemore repressed in childhood and
are rebellious but like reallyon the inside, you're just like

(17:46):
that's so cool.
Like you just put it out there.

Fulden (17:49):
Yeah, precisely, and like all this shit that she gets
from other people, most of itis like all these rockers, like
male rockers do this stuff allthe time and everyone thinks
it's cool and it's no big deal,but then when she does it, I
think there's a lot of sexisminvolved in that.

(18:12):
People are just I think thatshe's disgusting only because
she's a woman doing these thingsthat mend it all the time and
they get a free pass.

David (18:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, and I think that's
so true about how her music gotoverlooked, right, Because she
was being kind of either talkedabout as Kurt Cobain's partner,
right, or how she, you know,just like you said, fulton, like

(18:52):
doing all the things that lotsof male rockers do, you know,
and get like lauded for, right,like as rockers, like oh, drug
incoming on you know, and it'slike, oh, he's so out of it, and
it's like, yeah, you know, butwhen she does it, like you said,
it's not okay and they're goingto, you know, everyone is going

(19:13):
to critique her in that way,and I think you're so right too.
I think the music is sopowerful in so many ways if we
take the time to listen to it.

Fulden (19:24):
Yeah, and people even claimed at some point that Kurt
Cobain was actually writing allof her songs which simply is not
true.
Yeah.
Right.
I mean you should listen tothese older albums and it just

(19:44):
sounds so authentic.
I like that word that you usedCarolina.
I think she sounds very, veryauthentic.
And after her band got verypopular, alongside this
explosion of grunge, that's whenthey started to get very poppy.
But still, I like the songsduring that era as well.

(20:06):
I think they're fun to listento.
But they're, to me, notcomparable to this earlier stuff
.

Carolina (20:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I remember hearing thecomparison, not the comparison,
hearing a lot of the narrativearound like her fame being
solely tied to her marriage toKurt Cobain and things like that
, or like that's why she wasfamous or he set her up, or you
know that kind of thing.
But then when you actually satdown to listen to that early

(20:36):
work, you're like no, she'ssuper talented, this is really
good stuff.
It always irked me.

David (20:43):
Yeah, so you know music has a way of connecting people
and helps you identify, and wetalked about music as kind of
like a social currency in ways.
And so I was curious when youfound you know a hole in this
music and you identified withher and you were going through

(21:04):
similar things, was it you andyou know a hole, or did you find
some other people you know inhigh school or whatever that
were also in that way and didyou connect?

Fulden (21:21):
Um well, I was pretty lonely.
I did have a best friend sothis was during middle school
but she wasn't interested in thesame kind of music that I was
interested in, so it wasn't likewe weren't necessarily bonding
over music.
So I was precisely lonely inthat regard.

Carolina (21:44):
Right, but when I?

Fulden (21:45):
got to high school I did meet a lot of people who were
interested in similar kinds ofmusic and that's when we started
playing together.
But my discovery of hole.
I mean I was already aware ofthem because they were so
popular throughout my childhood.
But the summer that I finishedmiddle school I took this trip

(22:07):
to California and I discoveredthis record store in Clermont.
It was in Clermont at the time.
Later it moved, I think, someother place but it's called
Reiner record and they had likeall these CDs or four and I got
like maybe like four or fivealbums.

David (22:33):
Do you have any more in the back please?

Fulden (22:35):
Exactly.
So I basically spent all myallowance on these records
during that trip and then therest of the trip.
I was there with my best friend, so she was like paying for my
food herself.
But so that was very formativefor me because I didn't have

(22:59):
access to these records inTurkey.
It was a very limited selectionthat we had in Turkey at the
time.
And then it wasn't very commonto download or stream music
during those years.
I mean, some people did it,there was Lime Wire or whatever,
but it wasn't very common.

(23:23):
So yeah, it became this veryformative experience having all
these albums at hand.
They became my friends, ofcourse.

David (23:33):
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, and I think that's kindof like thinking with that
question of sometimes music canbe our friend and that's who we
spend time with, or it can bethis way we find other people,
we connect because of thosesimilarities, and so yeah thanks
for that.

Raza (23:53):
Yeah, I got a quick question.
So in Turkey, if you went to,like your local record store or
cassette or CD store to look forsome of these records, some of
these more obscure type bands,what was that interaction like?
Did they look at you funny,Like oh, why are you looking for

(24:13):
these obscure bands that noone's ever heard of?
You should listen to I don'tknow Michael Jackson instead, or
something more popular.
Can you describe that a littlebit?

Fulden (24:23):
Well, sometimes it really depends on where you go.
At the time there was thislittle record store in my
hometown.
It was called Excalibur, but itspecialized in metal it
specialized in metal exactly andit would carry, like all these

(24:47):
super obscure metal bands, butalso some popular stuff as well.
So at some point I think, likethe first time I stumbled into
the store, I think I bought likea Backstreet Boys CD or
whatever, but then, like it wasvery dark, it was almost like a
den inside and the guy who ownedthe store like just stared at

(25:12):
me and like judging me with hiseyes basically he's like look,
we only put that out to identifywho's not allowed to shop at
this store anymore.
But he didn't necessarily carryall these like grand albums or

(25:34):
punk albums.
He had some of them, but likewe really needed a punk record
store, I guess, and we didn'thave that, it was mainly metal.
Metal was very big at the timein Turkey.

Raza (25:48):
Nice.
Yeah, I asked because I wastrying to find a comparison with
Pakistan.
I remember visiting a few thiswas at least 10 years ago now
but there's a lot of bootleggingand stuff like that.
At least there was back in theday for videos and cassettes and

(26:09):
things Basically homemadeplaylists and someone would
create a metal playlist, put itin a store and then sell like
hundreds of copies of it.
I remember walking in once andasking someone for like a typo
negative cassette.
I'm like I'm looking for typonegative.
And so this little kid runs inthe back of the store.
This is, like you said, a den.

(26:29):
That's a perfect description.
That's exactly what it is.
You know, you got stickers andeverywhere it's like the CBGB's
look.
And some kid runs in the backand comes back with a dusty
little cassette.
Goes is this what you werelooking for?
And I'm like yes, it is.
It was, I think, the OctoberRust CD, but yeah.

(26:52):
But there are also instanceswhere you would ask for you know
like, oh, do you have the newMegadeth album or something?
And they would look at youfunny and go Megadeth, why is
such a nice upstanding childlistening to Megadeth?
You should listen to BackstreetBoys instead.
And here's the cassette.

(27:13):
So yeah, I was wondering whatthat interaction was like in
Turkey.

Fulden (27:17):
Well, megadeth at the time was actually very
mainstream in Turkey and, likeall the high school kids, all
the middle school kids, theywould all listen to Megadeth and
nice, that was good.

David (27:33):
I was just about to ask that because we were saying like
you know, what you wanted washarder to find, or you you know.
But I was going to ask you knowwhat was the dominant popular
music that everybody waslistening to in middle and high
school?
So it was metal.

Fulden (27:47):
Yeah, it was metal and this was like right around the
time when new metal became huge.
So I think that also.
I mean, when I was in middleschool, everybody in my school
listened to new metal, but thenafterwards I think it became
like a gateway truck for peoplethat they delved more into like

(28:14):
other other styles of metal.

David (28:16):
Yeah.

Fulden (28:17):
And that's how everybody like discovered death metal and
black metal and so on.
In fact, I was playing in highschool.
My first bands were a blackmetal band and a doom metal band
.
Oh yeah.
We were playing a lot of metal.
Dove right into the deep end.

Carolina (28:35):
I like it.
I'm so lost.
Can somebody explain to me whatnew metal is, please?

David (28:44):
So new metal is a think of that metal that got popular
like corn, limp, biscuit, systemof a down the metal, the metal
bands you probably know are newmetal bands yeah.
Like that you listen to.
That's super helpful, and it wasjust that because it, because
it had sort of elements of likerap and other things, it sort of

(29:08):
like Fulton said it was thegateway drug for a lot of people
into other kinds of metal.
You know, they get into thisand are like I can kind of get
with this, and then the metalfriends like try this.

Carolina (29:19):
Take it up an arch.
That's cool.
Thank you, that's helpful andfor any audience out there that
doesn't know the distinctions,I'll ask about the other kinds
of metal later offline.
I'll be like let's do metal andwhat's black.
You know, and we were recentlywhen we were in DC, we were in
the car and you were explainingall these differences to me.
We didn't make it to thesegenres.

David (29:41):
Yeah yeah, there's that funny meme out there and it's
describing different genres ofnot just metal but sort of you
know, rock and stuff like thatin like these cute funny ways.
So it's like emo the world'sawful and I'm sad about it.
Hardcore the world's bad andI'm angry about it.
What was it?

(30:04):
Goth was the world's bad, butthere's beauty in the bad, or
something like that, just funny.

Carolina (30:12):
I need that.
I need that musical dictionary.

David (30:14):
Yeah, that's my favorite one.
Yep, that's Roses.

Carolina (30:18):
Oh goodness.

David (30:19):
And metal people are notorious for like arguing about
subgenres and everything likethat.
You hear it all the time.
This is not that this is notthat.
This is what you get down towhen people are like just listen
to what you like, Don't worryabout the labels.

Raza (30:33):
And you know, if you ask the bands themselves, they
always say, well, no, we refuseto conform to any specific
subgenre.
Yeah, it's like we haveelements of everything else.
It's like, yeah, but there isdefinitely one, you know.
Sorry, but hate to stereotypethe metal, but it's there.

Carolina (30:52):
Well, I think you know , once you start to discover it.
A little like me, I had lots ofquestions Like what's this or
what's the difference?
You know what would we classifythis?
So, like, just as you'relearning about it, it can help
to classify some things, even ifit's loosely.
So you know, you know, and itmight help you open to like what

(31:13):
you might like further, right,yeah.

David (31:17):
Yeah, you need to label it a little bit, like you said,
so we can communicate about it,right?
Like, oh, what kind of music isthat?
It's like you can't just belike.
It's no kind of music, it'sjust music.
And it's like that was a greatconversation, right.

Carolina (31:31):
If I said what's new metal?
And you came at me with, likeit's typically defined by these
time signatures and I'd be likeyou lost me.
You lost me when you give mebands.

David (31:40):
That's easy, because new metal is almost oh no Four four,
four, four, all the time.
You can't be throwing any seven, eight or, you know, 15, 16th
time signatures in new metal.
I knew I opened the can ofworms.
I knew it when I brought uptime signatures.

Carolina (31:58):
Oh my goodness.

Raza (32:01):
I knew David was all over, that he says no, no, hold on, I
got it.

Carolina (32:08):
So you know, thinking about our day to day lives and
the role that music plays,sometimes music can can
transport us to a specific timein our life or place.
So for your next song, what's asong that you know right, when
you hear it, you're justinstantly transported to a
specific time or place.

(32:29):
What's that song and where doesit take you?

Fulden (32:32):
So every time I hear babes in Toyland's Dustcake Boy,
I'm always transported to thefirst year of college when I was
trying to get adjusted to a newcity and I was listening to a
lot of babes in Toyland at thetime and I really wanted to be

(32:52):
like and sound like a cat.
Who's the lead singer and theguitarist of Babes in Toyland
and I thought she soundsfantastic and I'm actually very
lucky because they did like areunion tour and I got to see
them live in Portland at somepoint when I was living in

(33:15):
Oregon and so at the time we hadjust started this punk band
called Second, then Underpants,from two of my friends from high
school and we all ended up inIstanbul together to go to
college and so I would play thisfor them and I would be like,

(33:38):
how does she sound like that?
Like how can she do all thesescreams?
I want to sound like that, andso my best friend at the time,
jeran, she said, well, she'sjust, you know, she's just like
being free.
You know she's just superconfident and you can too if
you're like that.
And I'm like no.

(34:02):
But then, years later actually,I realized that there was a lot
of truth to that, I realizedthat I was often holding back,
thinking that it wouldn't soundgood, or at least like it
wouldn't sound as good that I,you know, couldn't do it.
And those are limiting beliefsthat we need to find a way to

(34:26):
get rid of, I think, and I mean,that's how you find your own
voice, I guess, by not thinkingthat, oh, it's not going to
sound good, you just need to letthat go and just let it be, and
eventually it will sound good.
So I just always think aboutthat whenever I hear that song

(34:50):
Nice.

David (34:51):
Let's listen.
Dave's in Toilet.
It's awesome.

Carolina (35:36):
How does it feel listening to it now?

Fulden (35:39):
Well, it feels really dynamic, it pulls you in and I
kind of want to dance right now.
But at the time this band waslike nothing that I had ever
heard before and I do think thatthey are very unique in their
own way.
And so they were active duringthe grunge era and they had a

(36:05):
lot of grunge in their music.
But I think that all theseother elements that makes what
they're doing very original andit's just their own sound Like
the drumming is so differentthan what you usually hear, and
Kat's voice and her guitar andthe bass, like everything is so

(36:27):
unique to me.
So it always pulls me in.
Yeah, I love them to this day.

Raza (36:35):
I love what you said about vocal performance and how,
unless you let everything out,unless you let it loose, it
really for some reason it doestranslate.
When you're singing into a micand the sound that comes out If

(36:59):
you don't put everything you'vegot in it, for some reason it
translates.
People can tell in what they'rehearing that it doesn't sound
right, and then if you justclose your eyes and let it loose
, for whatever reason, it soundsmore authentic, it sounds
better, which is the truth,which is that there is a

(37:21):
difference between letting looseversus holding things back.
And for some reason, forvocalists it really does
translate over into there'ssomething between mouth to
microphone to speaker that ithas to be authentic, otherwise
it sounds terrible and thissounds good.

(37:42):
Yeah.

Fulden (37:46):
So the first time I actually sang on stage was for
our union.
One of our union events, thegreat cover up in Oregon.
We did like a.
We had a bikini kill cover band.
And that was actually the firsttime that I managed to play and

(38:08):
sing at the same time, whereasbefore that felt very impossible
for me.
But during that event which isnot necessarily a punk event, it
just has all these differentgenres, but we were the first
band to play- I guess that nightyou guys crashed that night.
Well, what happened was?
We started playing and I juststarted screaming, basically,

(38:31):
and then people were.
Some people were covering theirears, which I thought was
hilarious.
But I had so much fun with it.
I actually saw that and feltaffirmed by it rather than
feeling oh, I must soundhorrible or something, because I

(38:51):
wanted it to sound very loud.

Speaker 1 (38:54):
Yeah, that was a lot of fun that was a lot of fun.

Raza (38:57):
That's what punk rock is.
Right, mission accomplished,yeah.

Carolina (39:02):
Folden.
You're kind of blowing my mindright now and I'll say because
so in the.
So David notoriously lovesmetal, I sort of notoriously
don't, and my feeling generallyit's more of a gut feeling.
When I hear the screaming itmakes me tense up and I tell him
my joke that it makes me feelstabby Like it just makes me

(39:23):
feel like aggressive.
But I think maybe my approachto the music wasn't fully open
and so hearing you describe theidea of the screaming as almost
like human, primal, like lettinggo, like a freedom in it, I'm

(39:44):
having a moment with it, likeit's making me think about it
differently than then.
Aggression, which very wellmight be there in some songs,
depending on lyrics anddepending like that that's still
very much might be there.
But I think I was painting itall with the same brush and
thinking about it as like aletting go of emotion and sound.

Fulden (40:11):
Yeah, so I have this, this condition.
It's called Hashimoto's andit's it's like it has to do with
the thyroid, and so for years Itry to like they say it's not
curable, it's just somethingthat you live with and you just
take thyroid pills, but then youhave, like all kinds of other

(40:35):
symptoms, depending on if you'rehyper or hyper.
You just tend to oscillatebetween the two a lot.
But so at some point, my dadwas actually the one who told me
this.
He said look, you're boiling upa lot of emotions and you're
not expressing yourself, andthis has to do with your throat

(40:55):
chakra.
So he's all into that, thatlike chakra, like energy thing.
And he said, like you need tolearn to express yourself and
this is how you're going to feelbetter.
And that's actually how Istarted to sing and it does help

(41:16):
a lot.
Yeah, so that that was a gamechanger for me.
I don't know, but yeah, it doesmake you feel really I don't
know like empowered to be ableto do that.

David (41:35):
Yeah, I was thinking about it in getting your songs
ready for today.
You know, you've got a lot ofpunk rock on here and you know
the screaming and the lettingloose.
And I was thinking about asadults we really don't yell and
scream that much.
Right, there's not a lot ofopportunities to do it unless
you are a lead singer of a punkrock band or something like that

(41:57):
.
But when you're kids, you knowyou're yelling, you're screaming
, you're, you know playing allthat stuff.
And I, what you just said speaksso true in the sense you know
of.
You know we talk about how wesit so much now as human beings
and that's really fucking us up,because we were meant to move
and walk and I wonder if we'realso meant to like yell and

(42:17):
scream and sort of adult life inour contemporary society
doesn't allow it.
Because, yeah, there'ssomething very freeing about it,
like I think about it now andlike, yeah, go let out a scream
and I'm like, no, I can't dothat, that's, that's not what
you want.
But it's like civilizedcivilized, you know what would
people think, but it's like justso great.

(42:39):
And I think that's anotherthing, carolina, to your point
about metal and punk andhardcore, whatever it is, that's
, you know, stabby music, as youdescribe it.
That's what I think is reallythere, because when I hear it I
feel that release, they'rescreaming for me, in a sense,
like I'm not screaming but I canhear this person screaming, and

(43:00):
that's kind of solidarity withthat.
So I love your explanation.

Raza (43:06):
Well, you know, from like a PR perspective, that's that
that's exactly what a lot of atleast the bigger metal bands are
doing.
They're calling their shows.
You know whether they call itlike a ritual, like the way
ghosts does, or whether theycall it like like a family
reunion.
I mean, if you go to like aMetallica show, hetfield's up

(43:26):
there and he talks about, hey,the Metallica family is here,
it's like it's family, we'rehere together in this, like
positive experience.
You know, chanting andscreaming and letting loose, and
it's a good thing, and I thinksomething about that.
You know, in our times, atleast these days, it really

(43:46):
resonates.
It's just like, yeah, you'vegot 80,000, 100,000 fans
screaming their heads off for,you know, a couple of hours and
then after that, we're good,we're happy, we're chill, right.

David (43:57):
You know I scream at the show so I don't stab people
Exactly yeah.

Fulden (44:02):
Well also as a kid, like you pointed out, david, you,
you scream not only when you'rethrowing a fit, but also when
you're just like playing andyou're really happy, and so it's
.
It can also be kind of like thatwhen you're singing.
It doesn't always have to be anexpression of anger or negative

(44:26):
emotions or just like bottledup feelings, but it could just
be a form of play, and that'show I've always seen music to be
just a form of play.
And anything could really be aform of play, anything that
makes you feel reallyexhilarated and whole and

(44:47):
powerful, and that's just one ofthose things, I guess.

David (44:52):
Yeah, totally yeah, I'm thinking of having a weird
reference here, but there's avery famous in the running world
ultra runner, Scott Jurick.
He said all kinds of recordsand stuff like that and his
thing is before the start ofevery race, when everyone's
lined up right before the gungoes off, he lets out this like

(45:14):
gutter roll, like yell, and itkind of just gets him in the
mindset of like you know, kindof going primal and we're going
to run this race and I'm goingto do it and it's.
And it's so funny because whenyou see him, he, he doesn't look
like someone.
I mean I guess I'm stereotypingthere, but you're like no, you
wouldn't do that.

Carolina (45:33):
You're super, like you know proper.

David (45:37):
Yeah, yeah, but but yeah, I think that's something to it
and it sort of sets it up likefolding, like you said, like
we're going to go run this youknow 50 mile race or whatever
through the woods and there'splay in that, and so let me just
pull up my inner child, let outa good scream and go run.
So yeah, I think there'sdefinitely something there.

Carolina (45:57):
I'm going to go in the bathroom and yell after this.
Well, I'm having all kinds offeelings, because at what point
in kids lives do we tell them tolike stop screaming and shut?
Up and quiet down and like whatare we doing?

David (46:12):
Everything wrong?

Carolina (46:15):
Oh, there's going to be one of those episodes that
just like melts my brain.

Raza (46:21):
Well, carolina, you know Episode One.
You know David's episode wassupposed to be.
You know, one of our I guessmaybe was like an unspoken goal
was to get you more in tune withpunk and metal.
I think we're pretty close.
I think we're getting there.

Carolina (46:40):
You're getting there.

Raza (46:41):
You're getting there You're getting there.

David (46:43):
I just had to bring in the big guns.

Raza (46:45):
Folding had to come along, that's right.

Carolina (46:49):
You're like no more messing around, we're bringing
on the ultimate here.
Oh, that's good stuff.
I'm going to.
For hours after this I'm goingto be sitting there going.
What else am I like did?
I not see.
But to move us ahead, thinkingabout.
Sometimes in our lives, when wehave difficult moments, music

(47:11):
can help get us through, helpguide us or be our friends and
sometimes, you know, when welisten to it years later, it can
bring up challenging memoriesor things like that.
So, for your next song, what'sa song that maybe maybe you
struggle or not to listen to,but it's definitely connected to
difficult memories?

(47:32):
What song is it?

Fulden (47:34):
For me it's your Graduation by Modern Baseball.
It's a pop punk song that issomewhat sad.
It's my depression song and Itend to listen to it on loop
when I'm depressed, but it hasthat uplifting effect for me, I

(47:56):
don't know.
It's comforting in some way forme and it may have to do with
the fact that pop punk gotreally big when I was growing up
.
I wasn't really interested init at the time.
I thought it was kind of silly,like all these Blink 182 videos

(48:16):
that were on MTV and they weredoing this like ridiculous stuff
.
So this was right around thesame time when they had those
shows like what was it called?
Like they were harming eachother, doing all these jackass,
oh jackass.

David (48:38):
Yes.

Fulden (48:39):
So it was kind of like that part of that whole, like
what are you doing?
The type of response that I had.

David (48:47):
to those things your adult came out right there, the
punk rocker took a break andit's like what are all these
people who are harming eachother?

Fulden (48:57):
Well, yeah, and like as a kid, I thought it was somewhat
funny, but I didn't reallyidentify with pop punk all that
much, even though it was reallyhuge in Turkey and, you know,
everywhere else pretty much.
But right during my late 20s andlike early 30s, I rediscovered

(49:22):
pop punk and I discovered allthese bands that I never heard
before, like modern baseball orthe Atari's, and I like really
fell in love with them andlistening to them made me feel
very nostalgic because theysounded like all these bands
that I didn't like when I was akid, but they were playing

(49:44):
everywhere.
But to me it felt likesomething that I failed to
appreciate at the time and justtook for granted, and now that
I've gotten older it just bringsme back to those times.
So this is, for me, like a verycomforting song, and it's a

(50:08):
song about like literally it's aterrible song.
I mean, it's very creepy andtoxic.
Oh no, it's about this guywho's like obsessed with this
girl for like three years andcan't stop thinking about her,

(50:28):
but then, like he finally letsgo and I guess that's what your
graduation means Like she hasgraduated from his thoughts or
whatever, you moved on.
Yeah, I mean he uses thatmetaphorically, but maybe there
was also an actual graduation.
I don't know about that.

(50:48):
But the video is really greattoo.
I really enjoyed the musicvideo of that song as well, but
it's in general it's justsomething that it sounds very
sad, but ironically it's alsouplifting and comforting and it
has rescued me from tremendousheartbreak and it's just a song

(51:13):
that I very much like, eventhough it's tied to a lot of
difficult times that I've gonethrough.
Let's take a listen.

Carolina (52:06):
That sounds fun, it is .

Fulden (52:08):
Like I can see why it's uplifting.

Carolina (52:10):
It's got that good nostalgic kind of early-ish
2000s I don't know what.

Raza (52:18):
Yeah, some 41-ish.

Fulden (52:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

David (52:24):
It's this like pop.
Punk is funny in that way,especially like as you get into
the more emo things and stufflike that, and it's this like
upbeat song, but it's like I'mgoing to slit my wrist because I
can't be with you and you'relike, the sounds and the lyrics
don't go together here.

Fulden (52:41):
At some point.
I try to play this song and ithas the most complicated chords
that I've ever seen in my lifeand I still can't play it Like I
have no idea.
I mean, it sounds very easywhen you listen to it.
Oh, like this one, you know,but it's really not.
It's a very difficult song toplay.

Raza (53:06):
It sounded cool.
It sounds like it.
I'm going to go back anddefinitely listen to this one
again, because it sounds like itgoes through different like
modes.
There's some quieter momentsand then there's some like
heavier moments and there's someyeah, I like that, like there's
a lot to it.
I like it.

Fulden (53:24):
Yeah, and so the part that we listened to.
At the end the drummer isactually singing there, so it's
an interesting song in thatregard too.
Yeah, drummer has a verse in it.

David (53:37):
I have a thing as a drummer.
I have a thing against drummersthat sing but not like in their
ability to sing, like I don'tthink drummers should sing
because they don't have a voice,but just as a drummer, I feel
like when they're singing theyare potentially sacrificing the

(53:59):
drumming in that way.
But we'll leave that foranother show, because another
podcast altogether, because thisis judgment free, so I'm not
going to talk any more.

Carolina (54:10):
This one's judgment free.
So we need to find the judgymusic podcast.

David (54:14):
That's right.
That's right If your music isthere.
I'll start that for myself andI'll just complain about things.

Raza (54:21):
Maybe like the Andy Rooney of here, I am listening to more
music that I hate.

David (54:29):
No, you said, folden, that you listen to this when
you're depressed or when you'redown and it comforts you.
We've used the phrase before ofa life preserver song, so that
song you need when I can't makeit and I need to keep from

(54:49):
drowning.
How do you feel that workingfor you?
Is it the fact that someoneelse is feeling that same way
and so you feel less alone, orhow does that life preserver
song work for you?

Fulden (55:10):
Well, I think a part of it is the sound.
It just reminds me of early2000s, when I was still a kid.
I think a part of it is that,but also, literally, I just call
it toxic.
But I tend to also get likethat sometimes.

(55:31):
I tend to get very obsessiveand find it very difficult to
move on and since this is a songthat has that or explores that
theme, like someone is having areally difficult time moving on,
but then he eventually does.
I think it resonates with me onthat level as well, you see

(55:53):
yourself in it, yeah.
And it's funny that you whatdid you call it Like a
life-saver.

David (56:01):
A life preserver.
Oh, life preserver, yeah Likeyou're on a boat and you go
overboard and you throw the lifepreserver or the what's the
ring called?
I don't even know, because thelife preserver is technically
something you wear, but it cameup in our previous episode, oh
floaties, or did the floatiesyeah floaties.
Little floaties little wings.
Whatever you want.

Fulden (56:22):
This song was actually featured in one of those
compilation albums that go withthe name Songs that Saved my
Life, oh, so it was covered.
There you go Like.
These albums are basicallycovers by a bunch of different
bands of songs that they deem tohave saved their lives.
So this was covered by anotherpop punk band and I'm blanking

(56:48):
on their name right now, but Ilike the original better, I
think, even though the cover isstill good, it's just, the
original seems to have a muchmore of an intensity of feeling,
I guess.
Yeah.

Raza (57:08):
I like how you said that the lyrics can be little, they
can be taken as toxic and thingslike that, but I think that
that's precisely the point ofart, of entertainment, and art
is to delve into those creepy ordark or offensive or rebellious

(57:31):
themes.
It's important to do thatbecause I think that it allows,
when you allow artists to havethat space, to explore it and
then come to some conclusion,whatever that is, and put it out
there.
I think that expression issuper important because, for the
very reason that I mean, lifeisn't all peaches and unicorns

(57:55):
and it's important to delve intothose themes so that if an
audience member resonates withit, it can actually literally
save their life, it canliterally make them feel like
they are not alone, and toprevent artists from having the
ability or the right to expressthat.

(58:15):
Whether it sounds creepy.
If verse one is creepy or wrongor it's expressing some thoughts
that are just jarring for somepeople, chances are by the time
they get to the conclusion ofthat piece of art, there will be
something positive in it, and Ithink that that space should be

(58:38):
there.
A lot of times I know that,especially from a cultural
standpoint, art stuff getsbanned and stuff gets censored
and things like that, and it'simportant to recognize that
stuff that is just on face valuemight seem wrong or toxic or

(58:58):
dark or whatever.
It can actually save someone'slife.
Anyway, I'm done with mysoapbox now.

Fulden (59:04):
I certainly agree with that.
But the danger that I see inthis song in particular is this
romanticization of this way ofnot only behaving, but even if
it's someone who is notnecessarily bothering anyone,

(59:25):
it's still like aromanticization of self-harm of
some kind, and I think it'simportant to not romanticize
that.
And I think it's very common inpop punk in particular, to
romanticize self-pity andself-harm and all these things.

(59:47):
I think we need to haveconversations about how we can
take up these topics but thenput them in a different kind of
a frame.
That's not going to render themas something that's good and

(01:00:10):
desirable, but we need to havethese conversations so that we
could explore these topics in away that would serve healing in
some way.
And I don't mean to say that.
I don't mean to say like thissong is terrible and we should

(01:00:31):
censor it.

Carolina (01:00:32):
I don't mean that, but I just think that there is this
trend that could possibly beharmful, right, Because if we
take, you can consider thelyrics or art a metaphor for
insert several aspects of yourlife.

(01:00:52):
And so to Roz's point, I feellike it's good to express those
things, but I think if we justleave it like within and not
discuss the topic whatever'scoming up for you, then it can
like fester into somethingharmful, right?
Sometimes toxic lyrics likethis can make us self reflect on
times in our lives where wewere in our best selves, when we

(01:01:13):
gave into vices or obsessionsor, you know, didn't handle that
break up with your life and youknow, things like that.
But there is that danger foldingof like aspiring to that in the
future.
And so I think if we don't, ifwe just sit with the music but
don't talk about it, with thetalk about the feelings that

(01:01:34):
come up with anyone, then yeah,there's there's risk that it
becomes romanticized or likeaspirational and then something
like more dangerous.
But then when you talk incommunity or friendship and
share, like this is what'scoming up for me, you know, yeah
yeah, you said conversation.

Raza (01:01:54):
I think that's that's, that's the key right.
It's you have the space to sayyou know what's what's on
someone's mind, but let's talkabout it, let's have, let's
engage and let's discuss and andlet's really understand, you
know in a positive way, what,what, what, what can be done

(01:02:16):
with what outcomes.
We can come up with thatactually facilitate healing and
things like that.

And I think throughout the story we've told so far,
you've had quite a bit ofchanges, right moving to a new
city for for college, and thenyou know you met David all the
way in Oregon, so far, far awayfrom Turkey.
You've had a lot of transitionsin your life and sometimes
music you know kind of scores,the soundtrack to some of those

(01:02:46):
transitions.
For your next song, what?
What's that song that youassociate with kind of a weighty
transition in your life.

Fulden (01:02:55):
Richard by Bratmobile is a song that I associate with
Oregon a lot and, having livedthere for five years doing my
PhD there, lots of memories.
But I think it's mostly becauseBratmobile started in Eugene
Oregon.
They were students at theUniversity of Oregon at the time

(01:03:19):
, which is where David and Iwent many years later, but there
was the traces of them a littlebit.
I mean, there was that recordshop Was it called like the
House of Records or something?
I think that used to be like astudio for them, Like there was

(01:03:40):
a studio in the back whereBratmobile used to play.
So I mean, I was very excitedwhen I got the news that I got
into Oregon, not just because Iwas happy that I got into a PhD
program, but also because that'swhere like that's where Ride

(01:04:01):
Girls started and all thesebands that I really love are
from the Northwest, so I washoping that I would see like a
lot of shows there, but ofcourse I mean the movement had
died out.
Although.
I did see some like really,really cool shows during my time

(01:04:24):
in Oregon.
But yeah, the song is a.
It's a sad song and Oregon issomewhat of a sad place that
doesn't have a lot of sunshineand it rains a lot, so that was
kind of difficult for me assomeone who's just so used to
the sunshine.
But, yeah, we took a lot ofvitamin D and we, I mean,

(01:04:51):
enjoyed the trees.
It was very green, yeah, butthe song still reminds me a lot
of Oregon.

David (01:05:01):
Nice, let's take a listen and go back to Eugene Oregon.
I can totally see that justbeing played like and some

(01:05:49):
random place Like I can imaginewalking into like a pizza joint
and they're up there justsinging away.

Fulden (01:05:56):
Yeah, it sounds like rainy weather, doesn't it?
Yes, totally.
Yes, One thing that reallyimpressed me about Bratmobile is
that it started.
It was started by, just youknow, some university students
who had no idea how to play anyinstruments, but they wanted to

(01:06:17):
be a part of the right girlmovement, so they basically
picked up a guitar and then theyended up recording one of my
all-time favorite albums, and Ithink that it's actually like
one of the punk classics theirdebut Party Mouth.
It's just like such a wonderfulalbum.

(01:06:41):
It's full of these like punkhits.
And it's also the music gotfeatured in this one video game
called Gone Home, which is setin Oregon, so I mean it's like

(01:07:03):
yeah it sounds very much likeOregon and it's yeah, it's
Oregonian music, I guess.
Yeah.

David (01:07:15):
So the move to Oregon and the decision to apply to the
University of Oregon for yourPhD what motivated that?
How did University of Oregonget on your radar?
How did you, how did you findyourself applying there?

Fulden (01:07:33):
So I was actually initially a psychology student
as an undergrad.
In Turkey you don't declare amajor, you take a test and then
they place you so you like afteryou take the test and you get
like your points or whatever yousay okay so this is the
university and the major that Iwant to be in.

(01:07:58):
So you like enter the universityalready with a major and it's
actually very difficult tochange it.
If you want to change later onyou may even have to take the
test again.
But so I wanted to be atherapist and that's why I
wanted to study psychology.

(01:08:18):
But then I was also very muchinterested in reading.
Like psychoanalytic theory, Ireally liked reading in general,
but in psychology all we hadwere textbooks, which I did not
like reading and there wasn'tanything to think about there.
They were just conveyinginformation that we were

(01:08:40):
supposed to know.
There were no discussions,nothing, and that felt very like
flat to me.
I did not enjoy that.
So I started taking philosophycourses and then I ended up
double majoring in philosophy.
But the thing about philosophywas that I really liked

(01:09:02):
contemporary philosophy andcontinental philosophy in
particular, and I didn't enjoyhaving to go back to these
really old texts and thendiscussing is this what they
meant or did they mean thisother thing?
That kind of felt like well,I'm not interested in any of

(01:09:26):
that, I'm just interested in howphilosophy can offer a new
perspective on the contemporaryissues that we are having.
So I didn't want to go to a veryclassical philosophy like a
traditional philosophydepartment.

(01:09:47):
I applied to a lot ofinterdisciplinary programs,
given that I was interested indoing critical theory mostly.
But those programs they hadvery little funding so they
could either unable to admitinternational students or they

(01:10:08):
only admitted one internationalstudent or something.
And this was right around thetime when most of those programs
were located in California andCalifornia was going bankrupt.
At the time the UC system wasfailing.
So I applied to a bunch ofdifferent places, some more

(01:10:33):
traditional departments thanothers, and I did get into two
master's programs, but Oregonwas the only PhD program that
offered like a full package witha fellowship and everything.
So that was a really great deal, even though I kind of wanted
to go to new school.

(01:10:53):
They only gave me one third of ascholarship and New York City
is very expensive.
So I figured, well, I don'tthink I'll be able to do this
and yeah, but I loved Oregon, Iloved going there, I loved the
program and I'm so thankful tohave met you two there as well.

David (01:11:17):
The bonus.
I feel the same way.
Yeah, whatever my time inOregon was, yeah, I met some,
definitely met some good people.

Fulden (01:11:25):
And it definitely was not a traditional philosophy
program, which I alsoappreciated.
Yeah, that's what I was lookingfor too.

David (01:11:33):
So you know classes in Native American philosophy,
feminist philosophy, philosophyof race, just like you said.
You know all of those thingsthat aren't just.
Let's rehash what Aristotlereally meant when he said this
you know.

And that was required.
Like I remember that.
I found that super impressive,that like the feminist
philosophy and stuff wasrequired for everybody.
Yeah, I remember being superimpressed by that.
It's a must have.

Fulden (01:12:04):
It's one of the few universities that do that I
think it's very difficult todesign your graduate program
like that, but they somehowmanaged to do it and everyone's
on board with it, which I thinkis great yeah at my university
we don't have, like any requiredcourses whatsoever, so people

(01:12:26):
just take whatever they want.
But I very much enjoyed takingcourses, even courses that I had
no interest in, like analyticphilosophy.
Those pro seminars were a wayto like.
Those required pro seminarswere a way to build community,
also because it was always likethe first and the second years

(01:12:49):
like taking them together.
So, yeah, I thought it wasgreat.

David (01:12:55):
And it's a way to figure out what you don't want to do,
right?
Yeah, because you're like, Ithink I'm drawn to this same as
like music.
Right, you hear different musicand you're like, well, let me
explore this and check it outand maybe there's something to
it.
Or maybe I realize, yeah,that's really not my thing.
So yeah.
That's so funny, too, that youmentioned new school.

(01:13:16):
I'm sure, like all of us,people that were wanting to do
graduate work and philosophy,that were interested in these
non traditional, morecontemporary critical theory
stuff, did the same thing.
Because I was the same way asyou and I was like I'm glad to
new school.
And they called me like a weekbefore classes started actually
and we're like hey, we have aspot for you.

(01:13:38):
And I'm like I have a family.
I can't move to New York in aweek.
It's not going to happen.
And then like funding issues,yeah, it's like it was super
expensive.

I did a degree after my bachelor's at the new school,
at the Parsons School of Design, and I finished the two year
degree in one year because itwas so expensive like doubled up
on courses and I was like Ijust need the degree.
So expensive between the schooland just New York City.
Like living in in the city waslike who's just a lot I love

(01:14:14):
hearing just because we havethat shared experience in Oregon
, but like a song that remindsyou of of that time I think I
have I didn't equate the weatherso much, but I think that's
part of the package like I havefond memories of that time the
rain, the like, darkness, butalso like just really cool

(01:14:34):
people, I think.
As you were describing thedepartment, I remember Like all
of you went on strike, like inthe rain, just like picketing
and stuff like I don't know, itjust felt like a really cool
time.

David (01:14:47):
Yeah, going on strike in Eugene Oregon has like an extra
layer of it, because it's likethat's where you know the
anarchist movement in the 70sreally got going the the eco
anarchism or not, ecoenvironmental environmental.
And it's like going there inthe 70s.

(01:15:08):
So, yeah, definitely has that,you know, and a great place to,
like you said, get do punk rock.

Right, listen to music .
Different from all the othercities in which I've lived in
the United States, like it justhas its own vibe out there.

David (01:15:27):
Did you know when?
When you got into Oregon andcame through PhD, did you have a
plan of what you wanted to doafter, in the sense of?
Was the plan always to moveback to Turkey and get a
teaching position there, or wasit just sort of like in the
academic world?
I'm going to wherever I can geta job.

Fulden (01:15:48):
Well, actually it's funny because I kind of saw that
fellowship as my way out.
I couldn't wait to get out ofTurkey at that point, and I
think this is a sentiment that'sshared by a lot of young people
who live here.
Given that the you know theruling party, it looks like

(01:16:12):
they're not going anywhere forany time soon and their politics
is just incredibly capitalisticand also like repressive in all
these other ways, and so I meanright now especially, the

(01:16:32):
economy is also terrible.
So on top of all of that, thereare all these like other issues
, but so at the time I thoughtthat I never wanted to come back
, but being apart for a fewyears, I actually like really
really missed home.

(01:16:52):
I got very sick when I lived in.
Oregon.
And during my fifth year, I justremember even telling my
advisor I told her like I can'tdo this, like I really need to
go back.
I really wanted me to applyjobs in the States as well,
which I did, and I think if Ihadn't had to finish up so

(01:17:16):
quickly because I wanted to justfinish in five years and not
take like a sixth year there, Ihad to like finish my
dissertation the same year anddid all those job applications
during the same year, which issort of wild.
But if I hadn't done that, if Ijust took another year, I

(01:17:37):
probably would have ended upwith a job in the States.
But I was kind of afraidbecause I was getting all these
interviews and I was kind ofscared, like I don't want to get
this job but I need thepractice.
So I'm going to do theinterview but I don't want to
stay in the States.
So I was very anxious aboutthat Because if I were to be

(01:18:00):
offered the job, like I'm notgoing to turn it down.
Right, I'm going to take it, butI really wanted to go back and
it's funny because I was soeager to go back, but the summer
I went back.
There was a coup attempt andthen there was like a state of
emergency for so long and therewas also like this witch hunt of

(01:18:23):
dissenting academics and I wasa signatory to this key
statement and they werebasically firing people who
signed this statement and Isomehow, like in the midst of
all of that, I managed to get aposition at Middle East
Technical University, which isknown as a very like a left

(01:18:45):
leaning university, historicallytoo.
I mean, we have a stadium thathas the word revolution, like
they've written in Turkishwritten on it.
Yeah, it worked out, but yeah,it was strange, like leaving

(01:19:07):
Turkey and not expecting to goback, but then right, sick and
like not waiting.
Yeah being able to wait to comeback and yeah.

David (01:19:18):
Yeah, it goes to like the music point and the you know
the Aristotle point or whatever,like sometimes you've got to
explore other things just toknow what you had is what you
wanted.

Yeah, All right, we are nearing.

David (01:19:32):
Moving along.

We're at your last song and I'm super excited about
this song Because it's yourband.
So, yeah, what's the song?
Sorry, I got excited.
What's a song that's part of aperfect moment where everything
just felt right for you.

Fulden (01:19:52):
So this song is called Cargo Shorts and Broken Hearts
and it's by literally anythingbefore Bros, which is my new
band, and we just released afull length album this summer
last summer and this song is asong that I wrote during the

(01:20:13):
pandemic, which was a veryintense period for a lot of
people, and so during thisperiod I actually wrote a lot of
songs.
I wrote most of this albumduring the pandemic and I think
it's quite typical for a lot ofmusicians.
There are all these albums thatwere coming out post pandemic

(01:20:41):
and this is actually one of thembut the song is really about
healing for me Because duringthe pandemic I have had to sort
of figure out ways to makemyself feel safe and make myself

(01:21:02):
like cheer myself up really,and because we had no way to get
together with people and justsort of get our mind off of
things.
I was struggling a lot and Ialready mentioned that I have
this tendency to becomeobsessive and that got very

(01:21:23):
heightened during this time,when we were let up.
So I basically wrote the song aspart of that healing journey,
trying to figure out well, howcan I be otherwise, how can I do
otherwise, how can I embracethis other way of being that's

(01:21:45):
not going to indicate selfsabotage and that's not going to
be harmful for me.
And I really like this song.
I think it's my favorite on thealbum, even though it's not
very punk.
It's a song that I kind ofexperimented with in terms of my

(01:22:13):
singing style.
I had never sung in that waybefore and that was sort of
difficult for me because I wasjust going high and low a lot,
and I think this is the firsttime that I tried doing that.
So it's challenging, not justlyrically, but also musically as

(01:22:35):
well.
Yeah, that's the song.

David (01:22:39):
Nice, let's take a listen .
I love it.

Raza (01:23:29):
It's cool, I like it.
What's your favorite lyric fromthat song?

Fulden (01:23:40):
My favorite lyric from that song.
I'm blanking on the lyric rightnow.
No, that was part of the song.

Raza (01:23:51):
I'm sorry.

Fulden (01:23:53):
But there's this part about trying to do what's best
for me, rather than what I'mused to or familiar with.
But I think that's what happenswith trauma bonding, and
sometimes it's very difficult todifferentiate that from the
love that you feel for someone.

(01:24:15):
If it's trauma bond and if it'sa terrible relationship for you
, you just stay with it insteadof just taking a step back and
thinking okay, this is a form ofself-sabotage.
So, even though I'm veryattached, I need to find a way

(01:24:38):
to sort of protect myself andchoose to do what's best for me.
So the song is about thatinvestment to become our
favorite selves.
So I used to say our bestselves, but then I heard someone

(01:25:00):
say that puts a lot of pressure.
So instead of best selves,maybe say your favorite self,
which sounds much more doable.
And it's not the criterion,it's not external to you.
It's becoming that person thatyou really like being.
So the song is about that, sothat's my favorite part, I guess

(01:25:27):
just becoming your favoriteself.

David (01:25:31):
I love that it reminds me of.
I heard a quote recently.
I want to say it was Rick Rubinthat said it and it was like
sort of the definition ofsuccess is creating something
that you like.
And if you can do that, you'vedone it right.
And I think what you're sayingright there is just it, your
favorite self.
Like if you can put somethingout there and create something

(01:25:54):
and you go I like that, that'sgold.
And it goes back to, I think,to what we were saying way back
at the beginning of sort of thewriting process and you can't

(01:26:15):
censor yourself, you've got tojust be free and put it out
there.
Like you can't write music orcreate really almost any art by
trying to think what peoplewould want, right, because then
it just comes out as false andfake and you're trying to get
standards aren't there.
You've got to just do what youwant, and so I appreciate it.

(01:26:39):
I love we listen to one ofRaza's songs on his interview,
and this is probably one of myfavorite parts of doing these is
having people on and listeningto their music.
It's just like I just love it.
I love hearing someone's musicand then talking to him about it

(01:27:00):
.
It's just, it's great.
So thank you, thank you.

Fulden (01:27:03):
Thank you and David, I've been actually meaning to
ask you about it.
You're sure it's not sure.
Yeah, that's like a festival orsomething, so it's.

David (01:27:14):
it's from what I know of it, we just moved to the
Nashville area last summer, sowe've only been there about a
year.
And so what do you do when youget to a new place?
You start finding the Facebookgroups and other things of what
you like, and so, yeah, this isa national hardcore is a
Facebook group and group ofpeople that share upcoming shows

(01:27:38):
, talk about the scene, sharedifferent stuff, and they
recently just put out someshirts for for the group so we
can represent.
Now is like what a perfect timeto wear it when we're we've got
this punk rock hardcore stufffor the show.
So are there a lot?
of hardcore bands in Nashville.
There's a.

(01:28:03):
There's a decent scene,actually there's a.
It's so funny because you havedowntown Nashville, right
Broadway, the strip with all theyou know honky tonk bars and
you know all of that, andthere's all the bachelorette
parties there and they all lookthe same because they all get

(01:28:24):
the cowboy hats and pink and thesashes and it's it's just such
a tourist scene.
And then you go across theriver to the east side of
Nashville and that's where alllike the authentic local places
are to see bands and there'ssome there's some venues there
with some history to them.

(01:28:45):
To Carolyn and I just went andsaw a show, not a hardcore show,
but at oh, was it Exit in?

I think so yeah.

David (01:28:57):
People are going to kill me in Nashville for not knowing
that, because it's like thestory Places to lots of lots of
bands and then right across thestreet from that is another
venue that has lots of people.
So, yeah, nashville is reallykind of Like it's known, as you
know, country music haven, butit's really becoming just kind

(01:29:20):
of a, you know, I mean it'scalled Music City, right, so
it's like there's there's lotsof different music there, so
that's pretty cool.

Fulden (01:29:27):
Yeah, it would be so much fun to play that one day.
It's my bad remesculator.

David (01:29:33):
Totally, totally 100% when I get more connected with
some people and get going tomore shows and see what's going
on.
See if we can't get you to comeover.

Fulden (01:29:46):
Yeah, so we also.

David (01:29:48):
That would.

So, yeah, the music venue is called Exit in and it's
yeah, it's, it's historic.
Lots of you know bands andstuff have played like early
shows.
It's a tiny place but it's near, I think, like that music row.
There's like a street inNashville and don't come at me
and comments if I get this wrong, but it's got all like the
music labels have like officesthere and stuff like that.

(01:30:11):
So the city itself is verymusically driven from a business
standpoint and artists thatmight not be country but come
here for you know vocal coachesand you know all kinds of other
like music industry supportthat's based here.

Raza (01:30:28):
A lot of metal people are retiring in Nashville.
I think that I'm sensing that.

David (01:30:32):
Oh, that's right.
Yeah, you mentioned that before.
Yeah, lots of people movingback here and stuff.

Raza (01:30:37):
A lot of a lot of people from the night, especially the
folks that were big in the 90sand, I guess, early 2000s and
stuff.
Now, now that they're now thatthey're in their sort of
retirement age, still rocking,but it's like, yeah, let's not
do the LA thing anymore and thenpartying all night, let's kind
of go chill and buy a farm or awinery in Nashville and hang out

(01:31:00):
and it's a shame there it's.

David (01:31:03):
It just was.
Forbes just did a study.
I just saw that Nashville ranksas the number one for worse
commute in the country and thatfactors in infrastructure too.
So not just like how much timeyou spend in your car, but like
access to bike lanes and trailsand public transportation.
There's like no publictransportation.

(01:31:24):
It's crazy.
And so it's kind of getting toa, I feel, like a breaking point
.
Not that I'm like ripping on itor anything like that, but like
things are going to need tolike change in the sense of
infrastructure and stuff.
Because it's just like theairport they're just building
like crazy there, because it'sjust so many people are going it

(01:31:45):
out and so yeah.

Raza (01:31:48):
Speaking of airports, oh my God, the Istanbul airport is
phenomenal.
It's it's the biggest structureI've ever seen in my life and
it's amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:31:59):
So yeah, you guys are , you guys did something really
awesome.
That's cool.

Fulden (01:32:06):
They do a lot of connecting flights for like.
So whenever I have to come backto Ankara from like a place I
went to abroad, I always have tofly into that particular
airport, but then, like it takesit takes you like so long to
just get to the other terminal.

Raza (01:32:26):
Yeah, yeah.

Fulden (01:32:27):
It's huge, but it's it doesn't seem to me to be like
very well connected, like it'svery difficult to get from a
place to another place insidethat airport.
Yeah, it would have beenhelpful to have maybe like a
tram or something like that.

David (01:32:46):
But yeah, I guess you could.
So Nashville and the Istanbulairport both need better public
transportation.
Yeah.

Raza (01:32:54):
Well, you know, after eating all of that amazing like
canafé and baklava and stuff,you got to walk it off.
It reminds me of.

LAX.
Whenever we would fly back toOregon and stuff was a lot of
times we would connect throughLAX.
If we were coming from likeabroad, you'd have like
completely exit through customsand completely go back in and
you're like this is takingforever.
All right, faldun, we have,we've, we've finished your, your

(01:33:23):
life and six songs story.
Thank you so much for trustingus with, with your music and
your stories.
I'll ask here, as we finishthat out, like how does it feel
to hear your life reflectedthrough song?

Fulden (01:33:40):
Well, that was.
That was a lot of fun.
So thank you so much for havingme and it.
It feels really nice.
Yeah, I feel very happy rightnow.
Yeah, because I mean it's alllike coming together and the way
in which you like organize thequestions.

(01:34:01):
It's very chronological almost,so that that felt really nice
to just do a littleretrospective into my life.
Yeah, thank you, this was a lotof fun.

David (01:34:18):
Thank you.
Thank you for trusting us withyour story and your songs, and
it's so great to reconnect toand yes, so awesome.
You're not.
You're not done quite yet,though we have been kicking over
to Raza for our last littlepart before we All right.

Raza (01:34:38):
Yeah, so, yeah.
So, faldun, yeah, it's been,it's been awesome, it's been a
pleasure having you on, so yeah,so one of the last things that
we do before we sign off iswe'll ask our guest what was
your your first, last and bestor or favorite concert?

Fulden (01:34:55):
I think my first concert was this show that I went to
with my dad, and there's thisTurkish rock singer.
Her name is Shevna Ferrah.
She toured with this, this likepop singer, kenan Dulu.
They were doing like a Pepsitour actually, so we went to.

(01:35:19):
Yeah, but it's like two verydifferent genres but I guess
they were both very popular atthe time so Pepsi decided to
sponsor them or whatever.
But I loved Shevna Ferrah atthe time.
She has a very powerful voiceand her music was one of those

(01:35:40):
things that my dad really likeapproved of like.
Spice Girls or.
Britney Spears because she wasdoing rock and her.
It's funny because I had acassette of her first album and
I was using that as thesoundtrack to these like stories

(01:36:00):
I would make up like play outwith my Barbie dolls.
I would basically like do likea whole play with my dolls, but
anyways, that was the first showand it blew my mind.
And yeah, and I'm so glad that Ishared that with my dad, who

(01:36:21):
introduced me to a lot of musicand I think he introduced me to
Shevna Ferrah too.
So the last show that I went towas by this Australian band
called D'snuts, and they're ahardcore band and this was in

(01:36:46):
Istanbul a few weeks ago and Imean it was a good show.
It's just not the kind ofhardcore that I really like.
It's like it's super masculineand I guess like a lot of
hardcore is, but this one inparticular.
I mean the band is calledD'snuts.

(01:37:07):
And it's a very representativename.
Like the whole show smelled likeD'snuts, if you know what I
mean.
I went there with, actually,like my partner, whom we just
started dating a few months ago,and that was like the third

(01:37:31):
show, I guess that we went to,and he's not really into that
band either, but he like boughta ticket and like asked me if I
wanted to go and I was like,yeah, why not?
He lives in Istanbul, so I wasgoing to be there for that
weekend anyways.
So we went there and we I meanit was fine, like we weren't in

(01:37:51):
the mosh pit or anything, wewere just like in the back and
just like watching and alsowatching people, and people were
having a lot of fun.
And it's also a venue that Idon't really like a lot.
The sound quality is not thatgreat there, but I mean, yeah,
we saw that band and yeah, it'sa different kind of an

(01:38:12):
experience, I guess.
But the best show that I saw isL7.
And I saw them in Portland andthey put up quite a show.
It was amazing.
But also it's a show that Ienjoyed for another kind of a
reason as well, and that reasonis the audience.

(01:38:36):
The audience was comprised oflike so many different groups of
people that there were likesome of them were metalheads,
they really like heavy metal.
Some of them were, like reallyinto grunge and they were doing
that whole like plate likeshirts and things like that.

(01:38:56):
Some of them were clearly punkrockers with like mohawks and
stuff, and, you know, some ofthem were just ordinary people,
I guess.
But it amazes me when it's aband that can bring together

(01:39:16):
people who enjoy so manydifferent kinds of music, and L7
is very much like that.
I mean you could hear like allthese different influences in
their music and they were soenergetic, even though I mean,
they're not old but they are notas young as they used to be,

(01:39:39):
obviously but they wereincredibly energetic and they
were on tour.
We just finished a tour and Idon't understand how people just
tour most of the year.
It's exhausting, it's exhausting, even though it's so much fun.
I don't think I would be ableto do that for like six months

(01:40:02):
or something.
I think I would just get liketwo fed up with it at some point
.
But yeah, so, even though theywere on tour and the show was
part of a tour, and even thoughthey're not as young as they
used to be when they firststarted playing this music, they

(01:40:23):
were just incredibly dynamicand like so powerful and drew
the audience in so much and,yeah, it was just an amazing
show.

Raza (01:40:36):
Oh, sounds awesome, Very cool.

Yeah, I'm like taking notes of bands I haven't heard
of to check on later.
Like the other benefit I'mgetting from talking to all of
our guests.
Totally.
So, yeah, thank you again, somuch for trusting us and sharing
your story with us.
In the last couple of minuteswe have left, as we sign off,

(01:40:59):
we'd love to give you the floorfor a minute to tell folks what
you have going on, how they cancontact you or listen to your
music.
Yeah, you can take it away.

Fulden (01:41:09):
Oh, yeah, sure, Thank you.
So right now I play in twobands.
One of them is calledEmasculator, the other one is
called Literally Anything BeforeBros.
So our music is on Spotify andBandcamp and YouTube and Apple
Music and whatever else you know, whatever other platform there

(01:41:33):
is.
We have quite a gooddistributor for our digital
releases.
So you can easily find ourmusic and like our music, videos
and stuff and you could contactme through my email address,
which is fulldenxiedemoncom Allone word.

(01:41:57):
All one word, yeah.

David (01:42:00):
Fulldenxiedemon Love it All right.

Fulden (01:42:04):
Which is a stage name.
Oh, nice.

David (01:42:09):
Love it.
Fullden, thank you so much forbeing on and for, yeah, just
being our 10th episode.
It's huge in double digits, sothat's a lot of fun.
So, yeah, just thank you somuch for coming on and exposing
us to great music and your ownmusic, and yeah, so that's it,

(01:42:33):
everybody.
We have reached the end of theepisode.
Make sure to like and subscribeso you don't miss episodes.
Also, check out, being that youknow we've got Fullden's music
in the playlist today.
We also have a Spotify andApple Music playlist for all the
songs that are on our episodes.
You can find that by searchinga Life in Six Songs playlist on

(01:42:53):
Apple Music and Spotify.
So definitely go check that outand with that, we'll see you
next time.

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Ep. 10 - Becoming Your Favorite Self: Finding Your Voice in Philosophy and Punk Rock

Episode Transcript

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep. 10 - Becoming Your Favorite Self: Finding Your Voice in Philosophy and Punk Rock