Ep. 13 - Sumeera Younis: From Emotional Farewells to Social Justice - A Life in Six Songs

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of A
Life in Six Songs.
I'm your host, david Rees, andI'm joined by my co-hosts
Carolina and Raza.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
Hey, hey.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
Hello For those of you new to the podcast, each
week we embark on an epicadventure to find those songs
that are stuck to us likeaudible tattoos, that tell the
story of who we are and wherewe've been, to help us figure
out where we're going.
It's a life story told throughsix songs.
We approach our conversationswith love, kindness and

(01:10):
curiosity to counter theprevalence of hate, anger and
judgment in the world.
Our goal is that by listeningto these stories, you can bring
more love, kindness andcuriosity into your own life.
With that, let's go have alisten together.
Our guest today is Samira Yunus.
Samira is a native Pakistaniwho grew up in Michigan, did a

(01:33):
pit stop in Istanbul and nowlives in Washington DC with her
husband and three kids.
She loves comedy and goes tothe comedy cellar anytime she's
in New York.
She's perpetually writing abook and always trying to figure
out her purpose.
Samira, welcome to A Life inSix Songs.

Speaker 3 (01:51):
Thank you so much.
That was a great description.
It's like I almost wrote itmyself.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
It should sound familiar.
Yes, so before we get into yoursix songs, we'd like to start
off with sort of a little warmup question, a general question,
and so just briefly, you know,what role does music play in
your life?
How do you see music fittinginto your life?

Speaker 3 (02:19):
That's a great question.
It's funny because I don'tthink of myself as like a big
music person.
And it's funny because I don'tthink of myself as like a big
music person and then, answeringthe questions, I was like, oh,
I do have a lot of musicalinfluences and it has been such
a huge part of my life.
Like my husband is definitelyan audiophile, he had like a
radio show and his brother andsister they're all just like

(02:39):
they're very cool, right, likethey know all the bands and they
don't listen to anythingmainstream and even a bit snobby
about, about okay.
So I think I always just kindof felt like you know, music's
not really my thing, but then Ialso go to any concert that I
can and constantly listening tolike music podcast or um, you

(03:00):
know, just listening to musicall the time.
So it is a wonderful.
And I think for a while I hadthat a print said like without
music, life is a mistake.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:09):
In my house.
So I definitely think music isamazing.
I remember during the pandemicwhen we kind of had a reckoning
of thinking about artists'contributions to our lives and
you know so many artists reallysuffered, especially live
musicians.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:24):
Time period, and I think people really realized oh,
this is just such a part of ourlife and it really enhances it
in such an incredible way.
Yeah, I think I probably fallin that camp too.
You kind of take it for granted, but then you realize that it
just makes life so much better.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
Yeah, no, I appreciate that response so much
too, because it perfectly fitsin with our show and the whole
message we're trying to get outis that, you know, we tend to.
We can think of these peoplethat are the music people or the
you know, like you said, almostmusic snobs in that way, and I
feel that same way.
Even being a musician and kindof living in the world of music
for a lot of my life, I didn'treally enjoy a lot of music

(04:04):
conversations because I alwaysfelt it was this sort of kind of
snobby thing of just like, well, let me tell you why the music
you like isn't as cool or goodas this other thing or something
like that.
And so I just really love whatyou said there about how, like,
when you stop and look at it,you really realize how, how
important music is to your, toyour life, and so I appreciate
that.
So thank you for sharing.

Speaker 4 (04:26):
For your first song.
What is a song that when youhear it, you're just instantly
transported to a specific timeor place, and where does that
song take?

Speaker 3 (04:38):
you.

Speaker 4 (04:38):
So let us know We'll.
We'll hear a bit of a clip ofit and then we'll talk more
about it on the other side.

Speaker 3 (04:44):
I think one of the songs that does that there's so
many, right, as you're doingthis kind of exercise, you
really recognize that.
But I was born in a smallvillage in Pakistan and we used,
you know, many immigrants.
You go back every opportunitythat you can, but that never is
your home anymore, right, andthe same thing with your adopted

(05:04):
country where you immigrate to.
It never feels quite like yourhome too.
To this day, when I stay home,I still prefer to Pakistan, even
though I go like once everyeight, nine years at this point
and this song that my cousinsused to always play when we were
leaving.
So if you're familiar, ifyou've ever I guess you two
haven't, but Ressa might befamiliar with this especially

(05:26):
back in the day when, like,technology wasn't so readily
available and communication wasmore difficult, when you would
go to Pakistan.
When you're leaving, like thewhole village comes, you know,
like everyone, to see you off.
It's like such a just, such apart of the culture and it's
just considered like properetiquette, so everyone's coming,
and then my cousin would alwaysplay the song for this and my

(05:51):
my translation is probably notgreat, but it's like like a
foreigner or someone fromanother land and so, which
basically means like, um, like,like, uh, the traveler,
foreigner, please don't go andleave me, and it's just, it
always just would make me cry somuch so I'd always be like

(06:13):
looking in the back of the car,like, very cinematically, like
tears are falling down my facethinking of this song yeah
so much changed every time youleft Pakistan, right, like we
would go pretty often as kids,like every year or two, but
inevitably someone would havepassed away.
Someone that's like very closemight get married, and now you
don't get to see them as much,or someone will have had new

(06:36):
children.
So life would just, it wouldnever be that moment again.
It was just so clear at thatmoment and so it was always very
emotional for me, and that songalways takes me back to leaving
Pakistan and heading to theairport.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
Well, let's take a quick listen and then we'll talk
some more about it on thebackside.

Speaker 1 (06:54):
Like an immigrant's anthem yeah, remember me, don't
forget me.
Yeah, it's really beautiful.

Speaker 3 (07:32):
How does it feel listening to it now?
It's funny because so much haschanged in the intervening years
since when I first used to goto Pakistan in the late 80s and
90s and then you graduate andyou go to college and also
subsequently so much of myfamily has immigrated to America
.
So on my dad's side we were thesecond family to come.
My uncle was the first and hesponsored us, so we were the

(07:53):
second family, and then my mom'sside we were the first and I
don't think anyone else came forlike 15, 20 years.
But since then now you know, weimmigrated in 88.
Almost all of my parents,siblings are here, so it doesn't
have like that same emotionalfeeling.
But I think I really long forthat childhood too, because it's

(08:16):
interesting how different therelationships are.
Like I was so close to mycousins when we go back to
Pakistan and maybe it's justbecause the visiting time is so
finite that you just are likeit's so intense and and then
they moved here and we justweren't as close.
It was so funny, maybe becauseoh sure and stuff.
But it was just, it was justsuch a space and time, and so I

(08:38):
think, thinking of that too, Ijust it makes me sad a bit to
think of how much life changes,you know, and relationships that
were so strong not necessarilyaren't as strong but aren't
close in the same way anymore.
It's very nostalgic.

Speaker 1 (08:55):
Don't we have this like running theme of music that
our cousins introduced us to?
I know, I think so too.
I know I think so talked aboutit, david, I think you did as
well, whether it's siblings orcousins, but but you know other
other family members andrelatives, um, you know, sort of
like sharing little sets.
You know, back in the 80sthat's what we used to do and

(09:17):
just introducing each other tothe music.

Speaker 3 (09:19):
But yeah, this one definitely reminds me this
particular track is from theraja Hindustani soundtrack and
I'm sure you'll remember likeback then you listened to like a
tape, right, you didn't haveall sorts of different.
So that whole collection ofsongs is just.
I think my mom must have justplayed that again and again and,
you know, in our tape player inthe car, because just for the

(09:41):
end of the 80s and early 90s Ijust remember all of those songs
being such a part of my life.
And one thing else I'll mentionit's like such a gift to have
that language and be able tokind of listen to the songs that
your parents and grandparentslistened to and a really vivid
memory I have from pakistan,even when I lived there.
I moved when I was five, butit's like one of those poor

(10:02):
memories that stayed with me islike so in in Pakistan, you have
these like woven beds.
They're they're made of like arope material called Sherpa ice.
Everyone kind of just sitsoutside on that and the sun, you
know, you catch the sun and mygrandma would just put her tapes
on and there's like these veryold, classic, beautiful songs,
like haunting voices, and so Ijust remember, like the sun

(10:25):
hitting my face and laying, youknow, out in the veranda and my
grandma is just sweeping withher her broom around me and the
tape was up playing, and sosometimes when I hear some of
those old songs too, I just feellike right back to being a
little kid and just in thevillage.
It's a really wonderful thingyeah, it's.

Speaker 4 (10:47):
I feel like you are described.
So I'm an immigrant also.
I was born in south america andI used to visit you, know,
annually, exactly like you'resaying, like it was summer or
like the holidays or whatever,um, and I feel like you're
describing my experience exactlylike I.
It would be time to come homeand I would like sob on the
plane I was like I don't want toleave my cousins.
I don't.
You know.
I remember one year begging mymom if I could stay my mom's,

(11:09):
like I don't know, like you knowwhat I mean, and so just
hearing you like describe it youknow we come from two very
different regions of the world,but that experience I was felt
the same.

Speaker 3 (11:23):
Such a universal immigrant experience and if you
speak Spanish then you know it'sjust like that gift of the
language is so immense to tie usback to basically some of our
you know either our familiar orour own roots and I feel so
grateful for, like the music,being able to access that, like
I was saying, it feels so keepsme so connected.

(11:44):
Right, because, as we'll talkabout, I'm sure you guys talk
about all the time on thepodcast, like music is such a
part of culture in so many waysand so I feel like when you
don't know the language, you domiss out a lot in terms of being
able to experience one of thecore stones of culture yeah, do
you play this type of music foryour kids Like?

Speaker 2 (12:06):
is it in your like?

Speaker 3 (12:07):
instrument.

Speaker 2 (12:08):
I was like no, no no, but more of that thing I know
just from you know a lot ofimmigrant stories.
It's sort of like you know thekids that are born here in the
States.
It's sort of like there's thispressure to like to, like you
know, assimilate to the culturehere and they might not have
that connection to the cultureback home.

Speaker 3 (12:29):
And so do you play a lot of of the more traditional
music in your house and are yourkids kind of connected in that
way or yeah, my kids definitely,because we we they've only
watched which could show that,but it's a bollywood movie and
there's a lot of them aren'treally age appropriate.
My kids are 5, 7, and 9.
And it's like even in those likethe themes are a bit like

(12:50):
horrific, but that's prettyclean and so they watch it.
So they know all the songs inthat and I just listen to Desi
music anyway.
So my parents are playing inthe house and they'll know some
of the songs and stuff and theycan sing along a bit, even

(13:11):
though they don't have thelanguage themselves, but they
definitely.

Speaker 4 (13:12):
I think that's a part of their life.
Yeah, yeah, all right.
Um, let's, let's chat aboutyour next song.
Um, for your second song, what?
What's a song that is justintimately connected to another
activity, could be a certainbook or a location, or a trip.
Um, what would be that song foryou?

Speaker 3 (13:28):
yeah, it's a song called if you tolerate this,
your children will be next.
I don't even know if that's thename of the song, but it might
be and by the manic creatureswho are this welsh band and
they're very just eclectic groupof people really interesting
band.
But this song particularly Idon't know why it got it was.
You know, I had a wholeplaylist for studying for the

(13:49):
bar when I was finishing withlaw school and for some reason
when that song came on I justlike put it on repeat and
literally for like two months Ijust listened to that song on
repeat thousands of times.
But it's so connected to metaking the bar exam or studying
for the bar exam and then takingthat.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
That's awesome.
Let's take a listen and thenwe'll hear more about it.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
And if you tolerate this, then your children will be
next, next, and if you toleratethis, then your children will
be next, will be next.
Will be next.

Speaker 4 (14:33):
Will be next that's a good song.
I remember that song, listeningto it in college.
I didn't know that was the name.
Well, I studied around inEngland and it was super popular
on the radio at the time.

Speaker 3 (14:48):
Oh no it's iconic, that part, the opening that you
played for me.
That's what I think of when Ithink of this song.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:59):
So what was it about this song that tied it to the
bar exam?
Just completely random.

Speaker 3 (15:04):
Yeah, but in retrospect, what a great song,
right.
Yeah, absolutely what's going onin the world with social
justice and activism andthinking about that.
And I think this was like kindof like I don't know if it's a
protest song, but it was maybe aSpanish civil war, maybe a
Spanish civil war.
It was a response.
The song was written about aconflict and you know just how

(15:29):
people, like regular people,kind of joined in to fight and
so if you just think about lawand you know Reza probably can
relate to this Most people goingto the law think they're going
to help the world and do likereally significant things.
It really is like an activistfoundation that I think a lot of

(15:49):
my friends and I myself camefrom, and then you're a
securities lawyer one day.
But maybe at that time thatsong also kind of felt relevant
to what I thought a legal careeror just what my place in the
world should be.

Speaker 1 (16:06):
I think by the time, even if we start with that
aspiration, by the time the barexam comes around you're like
nah, I just want to make moneynow, Just need a job, I need a
job.
It's funny.

Speaker 3 (16:18):
I did work at some nonprofits and things and you
also like, just that idealismyou have is quickly stripped
away because you see howinefficient or like the drama
within these organizations, howineffective they are, and so at
that age you're just so dumbthat you think that you know
change should just happen likethat and you've done something.

(16:40):
And why aren't things betternow?
And you're thankfully, with thedecades that have passed since
law school, realize, okay, youknow, the work is the work and
that's all it is.
You just do the work and thenchange will come.
But it won't come like this.
You know it won't come in thatmoment.
You need it to, you have to.

Speaker 2 (16:58):
Really it's a long game, it's a marathon and so you
that's your only part in ityeah, by by lots of us doing
small little things in ourday-to-day work.
We can, we can, you know, pushthat needle just ever so
slightly.
But yeah, that youth idealism,you think you're going to be the
one to come in and you're justlike I'm gonna fix it all.

Speaker 3 (17:19):
And then, yeah, reality sort of smacks you in
the face but it's also good tohave those, that useful optimism
, and you know, you see what,totally, absolutely a few times.
So it's literally the onlything in my mind these days, and
then I think, the next songthat we're going to talk about,
in the band too, just being sucha musical activist, but, um,
what the kids are doing right,like they do have this certain

(17:43):
naiveness, them, and that'swonderful, because that's what
allowed them to be so impactfuland just say yeah and just also
have such moral clarity that Ithink that you, you starts to
become more ambiguous as you getolder and it seems like there's
more on the line.
Point, you're just like well,this is right and that's wrong,
and I don't need to know anymore than that, and I think, if
you can preserve that, as youget older.
That's wrong and I don't need toknow any more than that right.

(18:05):
I think if you can preservethat as you get older, that's a
wonderful thing, but it is.
It does come a little earlier,easier at that age, and so it's
been really inspiring for me tosee like these students and
their activism yeah, yeah, itcan.

Speaker 2 (18:18):
it can help to wake up the rest of us who have maybe
gotten a little bit entrenchedin just the day-to-day of life
and you know, paying bills andall that yeah absolutely.

Speaker 3 (18:27):
That connection too, because I think a lot of us in
general, just when you're atthat age probably, unfortunately
we've had wars for decades, soyou know most of us when we're
in college probably had one waror another that we were
protesting against or otherinjustices, and so it's easier
to relate.
You see that, and you'rereminded of a version of
yourself that maybe is not atthe forefront right now, it's

(18:48):
not your primary identity and Ithink that's why also so many
people have coalesced aroundthem with the communities in
different universities wherethey have people come just to
create barriers or to supportthem and show them that love
which I don't know.
It's all been so beautiful tome that particular aspect and
really has gives me hope.
It's often so beautiful to me,that particular aspect and

(19:10):
really has gives me hope, as Ithink a lot of people you know
the kids are okay and you see,all of that right.
You know this, this generationthat we, kind of written off as
just being social media obsessedand vain and all of these other
horrible things are, still havea moral integrity that most of
our leaders globally don't.

Speaker 4 (19:28):
So I'm always saying how impressed I am with this
generation.
They are mobilizing, they areorganizing like young and
they're not taking any shit andI love it.

Speaker 3 (19:38):
I love it, like parent WhatsApp groups of like
who have university students andlike they'll get so riled up
and they're like we're going togo do this Like back off.
The kids are so organized, theyknow what to do.
They have, like, you know, likeviolence interrupters there.
They are not doing anythinginflammatory, like it's just so
well done and organized.
I'm just like when I go to thisstuff too, I'm just like taking

(20:00):
notes for just work, or likeparties.
Yeah, absolutely and just liketaking notes for just work or
like parties.
Yeah, absolutely.
Having like a handicap placeand having like a sign language
interpreter and just the thoughtand like inclusivity, it's like
very impressive in theorganization.
They're going to be writingbooks.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
A lot of times, I think it is kids.
I mean, you know, there was atime when we were kids.
We're clearly not anymore, butI think it's definitely, you
know, whether it was the Vietnamera, wars or any other
conflicts.
That's the one that I think ismost getting, compared to the
current college protests becauseof Colombia and things like

(20:40):
that.
But, yeah, it's kids.
Kids are the ones who movethings and, like you said, they
have that just almost naivesense of right, wrong, yes, no,
very black and white, andthey're able to sort of cut
through the BS and just say,look, this is what's right and

(21:01):
this is what's wrong, and thenyou can have a complete
difference of opinion about whatit is that they're, that
they're protesting.
But, yeah, give it up to kids.

Speaker 3 (21:11):
Um, it's so funny the black and white point that you
make.
Like people in in my age groupand especially being in dc and
and so close to the hill, peoplewill say like they don't you
know.
And hillary clinton justfamously said this like they
don't know you know the history.
Like they don't you know.
And Hillary Clinton justfamously said this like they
don't know you know the history.
And they don't know the nuance.
And there's like ambiguity andI was just like no, a kid's head

(21:31):
being blown off.
I don't need any context, Idon't need anything beyond that
fact for me to have an opinionthat is 100 percent unmovable.
And you know, I get that, thatand I think at that age they
really still get that that somethings are black and white and
right.
Of course you know other thingsare now, but there are certain

(21:53):
things like that are happeningnow that it's beyond the pale of
we need to look at new ones.

Speaker 4 (21:59):
It's so right, I mean this generation, unlike any
generation before it, has grownup around active shooters, like
they've known violence sincethey were tiny.

Speaker 3 (22:12):
Yeah, Right, yeah, yeah, we empathize to, even
though it's so monumentallydifferent but that terror of
living in fear, right, theanxiety of living in fear, and
just that it's so much real forthese kids somewhere else.

(22:33):
I think they really just get itin a way that maybe our
generation doesn't.
We haven't had that sameexperience, like just the
delicateness of life you know,put up most of us and of course
people have differentexperiences, but most of us do
up in relative safety.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
Sure, absolutely, totally.
And and just going back to thesong that you know, kick this
off this conversation.
You know, if you tolerate this,your children will be next
Right, and it's this, this, thissense of like.
No, you can't allow this.
You know, and like you said,it's a very simple black and
white message of just, you know,no, babies being killed,

(23:14):
children being dismembered andthings, no, no, we're not
talking anything bigger aboutthat.
We're not going to solve everyproblem in the world.
We're not making any claimabout it, it's just no.
Right we should agree on that.

Speaker 3 (23:25):
That's not okay that's the right line, that we
can all be on the same side, andfundamentally, I think most
people are.
This is something I know alsothat, like we talk so much about
how polarized our country isand you know, it feels like
people just hate each other, butthat's.
It's such a narrative that'seither in the media or online,
it's in in a virtual world.

(23:45):
In the real world, I just don'tsee that existing.
If I talk to a neighbor thatmight be, politically or
otherwise, completely on adifferent spectrum than I am,
they will recognize my basicdignity and humanity and talk to
me, and if my kid is sick,they're going to come and help
me.
These fundamental things.

(24:06):
I think people are stillfundamentally good, no matter
where they are in any spectrum,and that's been my lived
experience.
And so sometimes, when I get abit like disillusioned or
unhopeful, I just go outside andtalk to somebody and you're
like, oh, you know, we're okay.
Actually, we're still okay,because that fundamental

(24:27):
goodness exists in people.

Speaker 4 (24:30):
I like that.

Speaker 1 (24:31):
True.

Speaker 4 (24:32):
Love that.
All right, let's move us ahead.
I don't feel like we could talkto you for like a really really
long time.
Then it'd be a really reallylong show.
So feel free to just mow theearth back anytime.
That's that's.
That's my role here.
I'm like time keeper.
All right for your next song.

(24:55):
Um, what was a memorable timewhen you were exposed to a
particular like new band orartist's music?
Um, what was the song maybe?
Who exposed you to it?
Who played it for you?

Speaker 3 (25:07):
This question took me back to high school with my
brother.
So my brother's a year and ahalf, two years older than me
and we used to ride in togetherand it was his car and his music
choices 100%.
He used to always play RageAgainst the Machine.
So I'm seeing like maybe someof my worldviews are influenced

(25:29):
by some of the music, and Rageis just.
You know, Rage Against theMachine is just like one of
these iconic bands that are justso political and just so
anti-establishment and justreally had such strong political
messages in their music, andBulls on Parade is a song that

(25:50):
comes to mind in that era.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
All right, let's take a listen.
If you haven't heard RagingAgainst the Machine yet anyone
out there, here's what it soundslike.

Speaker 3 (25:59):
We're winning now.
We're winning now.

Speaker 2 (26:18):
The microphone explodes.
Shatter made the mold.
Need a drop of hits like De LaOa.
Get the fuck off the commodeWith a short shot Short will
make the bodies drop yeah, itwas.
It was hard to pull out a 30second clip for this song.

Speaker 3 (26:36):
Um, I definitely wanted to have that guitar part
in there because that's suchlike a key component of that
that song, so yeah, yeah, it washard to pick a rage song too,
because then, as I was likethinking back, I was like
there's some like um bullet inthe hat, like people of the sun
testify killing in the name oflike.
Each of those is just like arelike so and like just really

(26:58):
sticks with you.

Speaker 1 (26:59):
So did you go see them when they played in dc I
didn't know um one of what.

Speaker 3 (27:05):
That and tom patty are like two musical acts that
I'm just like so bummed that Imissed out on it.

Speaker 2 (27:11):
Right now I'm just like if there's a concert, just
go, because yes seize the daythere's a message for everybody
listening or watching go see theshow, yeah go see the show and
you going to have a headache allday the next day, which is my
situation.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, cause there'sbands for me too that you know

(27:33):
I never saw, and now you don'thave the chance cause they're
not around anymore or whatever.

Speaker 3 (27:38):
And yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:40):
So in our, in our like internal chat, I'm going to
share a couple of videos fromthat show, the mosh pit.
That was Capital One Arena, Iguess it was what two Augusts
ago.
Yeah, they played two nights.
I went to one, I think theother one was on my son's

(28:01):
birthday, so I couldn't make it.

Speaker 3 (28:03):
You could have taken him.
You're like son you're four,son you're four.

Speaker 1 (28:07):
But no, no, he's uh.
So, uh, yeah, no, I I have twoteens and, um, yeah, oh, he
would have been, he would.
He would have loved it.

Speaker 3 (28:15):
I'm just I don't yeah , yeah, yeah, I missed it, I
just feel like I inherentlydon't go to any concert at
capital arena because it's justI hate that venue.
You know parking, and then wehave like 9, 30 clubs, so it's
like you have that musicalexperience or even the anthem is
amazing.
Now I feel like it's yes, andit's very cool because you still

(28:38):
feel like you're always part ofthe show.
You can get on the floor.
For me I think this was one ofyour other questions, but for me
, like listening to live musicis just a religious experience,
like there's nothing like thatwhen you are there.
930 Club really encapsulateslike that feeling of it being
like church you know, whereyou're singing together.
You're so connected andeveryone's bodies are moving

(29:01):
together and it's just such like.
To me, that's one of the bestexperiences when you're seeing.
I've seen so many great uhgreat bands at 9 30 and to be
able to just be like this faraway from people that you loved
and listened to for so long isreally incredible totally that's
an absolutely iconic um venue 930 club.

Speaker 1 (29:22):
Right, I mean it's, it's one of those old dirty
grimy, but just there's, justyou walk it's.
It's like the cbgb, the dc,right, right, yeah, yeah, um,
just so much history there.

Speaker 4 (29:35):
Yeah, yeah, very cool so you, you listen to this song
.
You know in high school right,and sometimes you know at that
age you kind of rock out butyou're not really like listening
to the lyrics did.
Did their political leanings,like?
Did they resonate with you?
Did you kind of understand whatyou were listening to at the

(29:56):
time?

Speaker 3 (29:56):
no, I was just like it's loud, it's mad, and so I
had no idea, or I was probablyhalf the time telling my brother
like turn this shit off and youknow.
So I my know, going back to whatlittle sisters are like is you
know, but now it's just, it's so.
It was just a part of that partof my life.
So I know the lyrics and now itjust they love it Right, and I

(30:18):
don't know when I actuallybecame a fan on my own, but it
probably wasn't until likecollege or after law school or
college, so, but he also, theother thing he also always
listened to was the doors, so itwas like we had the balance of
like you know, like hello, Ilove you, and people are much
more mellow and I'm sure helistened to other stuff, but

(30:39):
those are the only two Iremember.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
And I feel like I know all of their songs so well
too.
For that same reason, you soundlike my sister, who was on the
show as well, and and quite afew of the songs were like oh
yeah, you know, I like this songbecause I introduced her to it,
and so I have two siblings andthey're all in this area and the
sort of DC area.
Oh you're so lucky and yeah,when we've, we've, I think, just

(31:07):
like your family and yoursibling experience.
It's like you know, we'veintroduced each other to the
different music and um and goneto a lot of the same venues here
capital one, you know, anthem,uh, 9, 30 club, a few times um,
so, yeah, yeah, it's, it's uh.

Speaker 3 (31:20):
It definitely sounds very, very familiar my sister
has, like she just loves, likewhite boy rap artists like
Eminem.
You know, we grew up inMichigan so of course, like
everybody, oh, sure, yeah, yeahlike Macklemore, who I like
never listened to or heard of,and then he's been very active.
So when I've been going to yesand stuff he's spoken at a few,

(31:41):
and so he recently releasedHintz Hall, which is just kind
of like really that same vein ofpolitical music, and so I think
Tom Morello had tweeted likethis this song is like the most
rage against the machine.
Oh yes, rage against themachine.

Speaker 2 (31:57):
Yes.

Speaker 4 (31:58):
Oh, now I listen to it.

Speaker 2 (32:00):
Yeah, that was awesome to see.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah,absolutely.

(32:29):
I was going to ask just youknow, because we talked a little
bit earlier how, like, whenyou're finishing law school and
you're like I'm going to changethe world and I'm going to fight
for justice and you maybe havenot moved away from it but your
job and your work is kind of youknow, there and you're doing it
, how do you balance the sort ofyou know, political leanings
and that sort of thirst forjustice and then maybe working
at an institution or in a largeorganization that maybe doesn't
move as fast, Because I thinkit's something I know, I
struggle with it and I think alot of people do.
So I was just curious, how doyou find that balance?

Speaker 3 (32:47):
Yeah, I think the wisdom of age has just been like
we just do work and you let theworld will not unfold as fast
as you want.
I actually, like you know, I'm apublic servant.
I work for the government and Ido think I think my work is
important, so I have that.
At least I do think it helpsregular people as, being
immigrants, and even though I'vealways been in finance in my

(33:10):
legal career, so I've alwaysbeen exposed to different types
of, like investment vehicles andjust the whole fun family kind
of world I didn't have a 401k, Ithink, until I came to this job
, and part of it was like myparents, like I think they never
made more than $20,000 a yearin their life, like they were
truly working class and theynever invested a cent of the

(33:32):
money that they made and theidea was always like this is our
money, it's safe and,especially when you come from
countries where there aren'tlike robust financial markets,
it's not really like somethingthat you would trust your money
with and, as immigrants, I thinkit's very much so like keep the
money under the mattress.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
Under the mattress.

Speaker 3 (33:51):
And even like I worked at a law firm and then I
worked at a fund and I still hadthat same mentality where I was
like it's greedy to want yourmoney to be more than it is.
Like I made $100.
I have $100 and I'm thankfulfor that $100.
And to make that $100 continueto work just seemed greedy or

(34:31):
wrong.
I think it's a real immigrantmentality not to participate in
the financial markets.
And it wasn't until much, Ithink, when I turned 30, I read
like Mr Money Mustache, I gotobsessed with this concept of
fire and started investing andmy money has made so much money.
Especially We've had prettystrong market runs in that time.
And now I see so much ofAmerica.
Not just immigrants but otherminority communities don't
participate in our financialmarkets and I do think that's a
problem.
So I think the investorprotection work that we do and
like just keeping them strong,is important, so like.

(34:51):
So that's lucky for me that youknow I do feel grateful that my
job is, but I think when I wasyounger I would never have
thought of like that beingimportant, Right, but you need
that too, right?
That is also a part of like howour country stays strong, but
also how we make sure that theaverage person kind of has like

(35:13):
the ability for social mobility,which is, you know, this is a
true, like the true Americandream, I guess, and a lot of
people have a lot of thoughtsabout that.
But for my family specifically,it really has.
You know, we've been able to doso much in one generation in
terms of the quality of lifethat we have, you know, for me
and my siblings facing things,or like the loud things, but

(35:35):
sometimes it's education andlike immersing in the
fundamentals that can you knowexactly to your point, like make
generational change yeah, oneof my colleagues does this thing

(35:55):
, where he was telling meearlier in his career he
provided like technicalassistance to all these
different countries and like oneof the things that they did was
like kind of make thederivatives market available to
farmers.
So like I don't remember whereit was, but let's say Nigeria
these farmers didn't know likethe price of their crops and so
they would sell it on a day andnot get like the true price or

(36:17):
they wouldn't get paid till amonth later.
And they just implemented theselike very basic changes which
now gave like millions of peopleaccess to like getting their
money in a more timely way, butthen also being able to
participate in, you know, likedivergences in price and the
arbitrage that you can do.
So that was like in his career.

(36:37):
He's probably impacted likehundreds of millions of people
who didn't have access to thisfinancial freedom that they now
do globally.
So it's like you know, agenciesare bureaucratic, they're
designed to be slow.
It's not, yeah, like the flashywork that you know sometimes
you attribute with activism, butI do think that's been a great

(37:00):
thing for me to learn as I'vegotten older, and also just like
being able to provide for yourfamily is.
You know, there's something?

Speaker 2 (37:08):
no, one can't do Me.

Speaker 3 (37:09):
To be able to support my family and also have spent
time with them is like such agift, and I feel like my career
has given me that too.

Speaker 2 (37:18):
Yeah, no, I appreciate that and you, you
know, cause a lot of times inlike social justice movements or
whatever you want to call it.
You know we have this problemof moral purity with it, right,
like if you're participating inany of these things that need to
be fixed or cause problems.
You're not an activist in thatway.
And I think your response kindof gets how you thread that

(37:41):
needle in that way.
You thread that needle in thatway and like, yes, there's
institutions out there andthey're not perfect and they
might be harmful in certain ways, but there's also very real,
you know tangible things thatcan be done that will help
people right and help peoplethat have been hurt in that
sense.
And so, yeah, I just appreciatethat response and how you talk

(38:05):
about how you thread that.
So, thank you.

Speaker 4 (38:08):
All right For your next song, because you know, as
we move through life we havelots of transitions and things
right.
The only thing constant is sortof change.
What is a song that youassociate with a weighty
transition in your life and whatwas that transition with a
weighty transition in your lifeand what was that transition?
The song and the transition.

Speaker 3 (38:28):
Yes, I was quite young when I met my husband and
my husband was born in Wales andhe grew up in the UK and so he
was exposed to all sorts ofmusic that I hadn't heard and I
just didn't have like a largeyou know amount of music that I
was really familiar with.
So when I met him he would sendme all these lyrics that I
didn't have like a large youknow amount of music that I was
really familiar with.
So when I met him he would sendme all these lyrics that I

(38:50):
didn't realize were like veryfamous English songs.
I just thought they were likepoems he was writing.

Speaker 2 (38:58):
Passing him off as his own.

Speaker 3 (39:01):
And I think he didn't even think that, because he was
like of course, everyone knowsthese songs, right.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
Right, right.
I don't need to cite this.

Speaker 3 (39:09):
Did people know that song?
I thought it was so obscure butfor him these were just such
major, huge songs and so he wasexposing me a lot to Pulp and
New Order, verve, blur, oasisSongs bands I never heard of,
river, blur, oasis, like songs,like bands I never heard of, and
so I was really mixed upthinking that these were like.

(39:30):
He was just this poetic geniusand such an insightful soul.
That's hilarious.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
Actually one of the songs that he sent during that
time was Temptation by New Order, and so I'll let you guys play
a little bit of that.

Speaker 3 (40:12):
Nice, yeah, let's take a listen.
So a little bit after that hegoes oh, you've got green eyes,
you've got blue.

Speaker 2 (40:38):
And then I was like wait, wait a minute, I have
brown eyes.

Speaker 4 (40:40):
That's hilarious.
I googled it.
I was like, oh my god he's notwriting this.

Speaker 3 (40:42):
Oh, my goodness, I used to like dissect it all
because my husband didn't tellme he liked me for a really long
time, so he just sent me thesesongs and stuff.
And then I'd like dissect itall because my husband didn't
tell me he liked me for a reallylong time, so he just sent me
these songs and stuff.
And then I'd like dissect itwith my girlfriends and be like
you would have sent like thesesongs if you didn't like the
person right Like look throughthe lyrics.
Right, have to interpret, yeahyeah, it's like that's romantic
right.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
Oh, and such a like, oh, such that.
So brought me back right as yousaid that, that thing.
I remember that of like tryingto find the perfect song to send
to someone, to like just getyour feelings across, or
whatever, and like, yeah, thisis gonna get it perfectly say

(41:27):
it's probably like how he won meover because they were just
like.

Speaker 3 (41:29):
You know, he himself is not the most, uh, empathetic
person.
He's kind of like, you know,very level-headed and stuff.
But through the songs he reallylike and the bands and the
music that I was exposed to,like, still like, if I hear
those songs, I'm just like, justfeel this.
You know, over the years we'vebeen married over 20 years that
love doesn't have the same shinealways.

Speaker 2 (41:49):
Sure, sure, sure.
You got to remind yourself.

Speaker 3 (41:53):
Ups and flows Right and you try to remember like how
did this start?
How was it so?
Cause you know at that timeit's so intense and wonderful
and like listening to thosesongs really does help take me
back.
I might do that this week.
Pull out one of the mixtapesbecause he, he would write all
this.

Speaker 4 (42:10):
you know the the tracks on there yeah, that's
such like an act of love yeahlike speak to the radio, right,
like you had to wait.

Speaker 3 (42:27):
Oh my god, they have like hit play or they have to
buy the.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
CD for a song and not all the albums were available
here.
You know, we're all broke kids,so it was definitely a fact of
love.
By definition, we're talkingabout songs from our past, right
, because we're talking aboutsongs before today, right,
experiences before today, andthe goal is not really to get
caught in nostalgia, but it's toremind our connection with

(42:52):
music.
So, going forward, we reclaimit because, just like we were
talking about with the youthmovements and the kids are
always the ones with the moralclarity and they kind of remind
us like hey, wake up, don't getcaught in the.
You know, that's the same thingI think we're trying to do here
to remind ourselves like no, wealways have access to these,
these songs and this music andthis connection to it, and so we

(43:13):
want to remind ourselves to dothat.

Speaker 3 (43:15):
So I love how you just said like I'm gonna go back
and, yeah, get them and stuff,because, yeah, like all parts of
ourselves, right, like thatperson that I was falling in
love and being in college, orthat person I was studying for
the bar and all those aspects ofit.
Like we forget, rightespecially, I don't know, like
it will, probably similar agegroup where you're like your
kids and your job and like soyou know, somebody once

(43:38):
described it as like life losesa certain excitement because all
the big things are kind of.
You know you found your partnerright or what your career is
like.
They're kind of settled and soyou don't have that same, like
you know, wonder of the worldit's easy to forget that, but
it's like those, that all thoseparts of me are still a part of
me and I'm, you know, I'm aparent now, I'm a securities

(44:00):
lawyer, but I'm also like allthese other very fun parts of me
that I think on a day-to-daybasis you can kind of lose track
of.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
That's precisely why we're here talking about the
things that make you you rightyeah.

Speaker 4 (44:15):
I'm having all kinds of thoughts about that right now
, like just the way you'reputting it, like thinking back
to that younger you and what youknow, what would you say to her
back then?
You know, what advice would yougive to her?
And then talking about our kidsand like what are our kids
listening to right now?
That's going to be likeimprinted in their life story.

(44:36):
It's like totally getting me tothink about all this stuff.

Speaker 3 (44:39):
Now I'm getting existential Right Just like lay
back and let it Right, Just likelay back and let it go of.
You're a Pakistani, Americansecurities lawyer and a mom,
right?
Okay, that must mean she's thistype of person, right?

Speaker 2 (45:13):
And through all of these stories we're seeing how
we are all so much more thanjust these narrow roles we play,
and we can forget that evenourselves, I think.

Speaker 3 (45:19):
Definitely, and those parts are so fun too right Like
just thinking back on that orjust like somebody.
I mean, I still like kind ofdance very stupidly all the time
, so thankfully I preserved thatpart of myself nice that part
of you that's like loose rightyeah easy to come tight as you
grow older.
So having those reminders ofwhat makes you just feel kind of

(45:40):
not not worried, yeah, kind ofcarefree.
Yeah, carefree, that's the word.

Speaker 4 (45:50):
Totally All right, we'll stay stuck on this prompt.

Speaker 3 (45:59):
Let's put a reza a little bit to take it down.

Speaker 2 (46:04):
Holy carefree.
Oh my God, I was going to saylet's all go dance after this.
You know carefree, but make funof Raza, that works oh goodness
, um.

Speaker 4 (46:19):
So, uh, we don't tend to talk about movies too much,
so I love that you answered thisprompt, um, because I just like
I'll hear a song and it'll likeinstantly make me think of a
particular movie.
So, um, I love that you havethis.
What's a song from a movie thatis just seared into your mind?
You can't think of the moviewithout thinking about this song
, and vice versa do you guysknow this movie?

Speaker 2 (46:42):
no, I don't I don't, I don't.
I had to look it up.

Speaker 3 (46:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:48):
So you're going to teach us all about it.

Speaker 3 (46:51):
A lot about it.
Sorry, this part will be short.
Okay, all of your weekendhomework and then please email
me.
Do it tonight, because it'smovie night.
It's Friday.
You got to watch Searching forSugar man.
It is the best movie.
It's like I remember where Iwas sitting.
We lived in Georgetown on this.

(47:12):
I literally can remember theexperience of watching this
movie because I went through somany feelings and like at the
end it's like for me this isvery oversold.
There's like enlightenment,where it's just like the world
is just amazing.
That's all I'm going to say.
I'm not going to tell youanything else about it.
Okay, I'll come back in fiveyears, like when I'm a

(47:32):
celebrated novelist, to be onyour podcast again and you guys
are like top of Spotify.
We'll talk about it, but nowthe song is Searching for Sugar
man.
Okay, right, but now the songis Searching for Sugar man.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
Okay, right, here we go by.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
Rodriguez.
Sugar man, you're the answerthat makes my questions
disappear, sugar man, cause I'mweary of those double games.

Speaker 2 (48:10):
Just giving some people some context for it.
So Rodriguez was an Americanartist in in the States.
This is a 2012 documentary filmsearching for sugar man, and it
was by documentary.
Okay, yes, and it's by two.
Correct me if I'm wrong SouthAfricans that did it.

Speaker 3 (48:28):
I think so, because that's where he had really gone
he had really gotten hugesuccess.

Speaker 2 (48:32):
He wasn't as big in the States, but really big in
South Africa, and so thedocumentary is about searching
for sugar man and whereRodriguez in America and you
know, just it's such a fantasticstory.

Speaker 3 (48:49):
I don't want to tell anything about it Because for me
I was like a joke some comediantells.
But it's really like soaccurate for me because I moved
around a lot as a kid, so myeducation is not so complete and
particularly with history, likeI don't know, anything.
So he's like he's watching amovie about Pearl Harbor.
He's like, how is this going toend?
I'm like I don't know anything.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
That's hilarious.

Speaker 3 (49:19):
Other than that, I'm just like what's going to happen
.
This is a movie that a lot ofthe excitement is, because you
don't know what Sure.

Speaker 1 (49:28):
Right, right so.

Speaker 4 (49:30):
Okay, all right.
All right, that's our homework.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
There you go, work is set yeah.

Speaker 4 (49:37):
About it Will do Do.

Speaker 2 (49:41):
What, what is when you said it was it was.
You know I know you don't wantto like talk about the movie
itself because you know spoileralert and everything like that,
but as far as you and you saidkind of like this enlightenment
feeling, so what is somethingyou got yourself for the movie?
You know there was you beforeyou watched it and then the you
after it.

Speaker 3 (50:06):
And what do you think was a change that you had?
Or well, some this concept thatI'm kind of obsessed with.
I'm very like into technologyand I want us all to just live
in a virtual world.
And you know, I'm ready to bechipped the second it's
available.
So that's kind of like my biasgoing into this.
But one of the things like I'malways so fascinated by is that
we have interacted with so manypeople over the span of our

(50:28):
lifetime.
Like I could have driven by youguys one day we could have been
in the same coffee shop workingor we could have been at the
same concert, but it would takelike a lot of digging and
talking to get to that.
And I think it's such a to methat that just is such a
wonderful thing.
Something about that makes meso happy.

(50:48):
But I wonder, like in thefuture and I think there's
probably a Black Mirror episodeabout this already but where we
can just kind of map, you know,and this book that the Candy
House, I think it's called thatI recently read is where like
everybody's consciousness islike uploaded, who opts into it,
and then you can see like lightfrom all these different
people's experiences.
But I just feel like one daywe'll have the information where

(51:11):
we'll all know like, oh, I'vemet you here and here.

Speaker 2 (51:14):
Right, right, you'll just know Right.

Speaker 3 (51:16):
And this, this, this kind of like this movie kind of
evokes that same feeling in meof like such things are
happening in the world, likereally miraculous type things,
but we might not ever know it,you know amazing in this, in
this case, like these twodocumentarians you know,

(51:37):
unpacked something reallyremarkable that had been
happening and it was reallychanged lives.
Yeah, wow, that Wow.

Speaker 4 (51:45):
That always not always, but that's something
that sometimes withdocumentaries like blows my mind
.
When you set out to filmsomething with no like no
knowledge of what you're goingto find at the end and you
invest all of this time and workand crews and following and,

(52:05):
like you know, invest all ofthis time and work and crews and
following and like you know,such that when these crews like
stumble upon somethingremarkable or like tie a story
together, like some of it feelsserendipitous, some of it feels,
you know, I always think whenthat happens it's like super,
super cool.

Speaker 3 (52:21):
Yeah, documentaries are amazing.
I mean, I always like shy awayfrom watching them because in my
mind they're so boring.
They're such an intellectual.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
Right, right right.

Speaker 3 (52:30):
They have such an innate bias against them and
whenever I watch one, I'm likewhoa, that was amazing, you know
, especially when they're kindof personal stories about people
.

Speaker 4 (52:40):
Right.

Speaker 3 (52:41):
Yeah, beautiful.

Speaker 4 (52:46):
Right, I hear you.
Sometimes I'm like I don't wantto be sad, be sad.
Is it going to be sad?

Speaker 3 (52:48):
because there's like enough in the world.
That makes me sad.
That's the problem.

Speaker 2 (52:50):
I need like a happy, inspiring right or or you're
just like you know, like yousaid, oh, it's friday night and
you just want to want to winddown with a movie night.
You're like I don't want tolike have to learn something
right now.
Like I love learning, but likesometimes you're just like I
just don't want to learnsomething, but it's so many,
yeah, documentaries, yeah, solike can be so much more than
just that, the conveying ofinformation.

Speaker 3 (53:12):
Right, it's, it's, it's it's really so much more
than that, I mean that's becauseI think now there's so many of
these like food that you know,and health type documentaries
that seem right, have an agenda,and so I think that has
probably also kind of biased meagainst them where the agenda
feels too strong.
But then there are thesebeautiful documentaries that are

(53:32):
just storytelling and it's sucha wonderful way to tell the
story, especially when thedocumentarian doesn't know the
ending.
You're like right.
So you're like oh, this is.
It's so fun.
You feel like you're therewithout having had to do all the
work right, you're just alongfor the ride.

Speaker 4 (53:48):
Yeah right, totally, all right, we we are at your
last song we?

Speaker 3 (53:57):
we had us one, I think too, but that's my kids.
As soon as we watch any movie,they're like is this gonna have
a happy ending?
Like that build up, and they'rejust like no, are you sure?
And then it gets worse beforeit gets better.
Do you know?
It's like the children's movieit's going to have a happy
ending, don't worry.

Speaker 4 (54:16):
Right, right, unless it's.
Bambi.
Does Bambi have a happy ending?

Speaker 1 (54:23):
Oh, no, it does not.

Speaker 4 (54:25):
Oh well, during the like really really sad part at
the beginning you know mom andthe whole thing, like I cried
apparently so hard in thetheater, my mom had to take me
out.

Speaker 3 (54:36):
And so I never watched it.
Yeah, I've never seen it.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
So it's on the agenda for the weekend too.
Maybe that's why I'm goodSearching for sugar band and
Bambi.

Speaker 1 (54:44):
I think we really need to have sort of an offshoot
of the podcast, like from themovie perspective.
We've thought about it, we'vethought about putting it up on
our Patreon page.
A life in six movies.

Speaker 4 (54:56):
A life in six movies.
I'm down.
That would be really hard.

Speaker 1 (54:59):
I feel like it would be a really long podcast, six
movies, god podcast six moviesgod, maybe a life in one movie.

Speaker 4 (55:09):
There you go, pick your one movie.
Yeah, all right.
What for this last one?
Uh, what is a song that'shelped you through a difficult
time or situation?
Uh, what's the song?
And, and if you're comfortablesharing, what was the situation?

Speaker 3 (55:22):
yeah, for sure.
You know I I got married veryyoung, at 20, and it's a.
It's a joke, like a lot ofpeople ask me if it was an
arranged marriage because I gotmarried so young and I say like
my parents, gave up everything.
They had, the only life thatthey had ever known to immigrate
like with three little kids.
They had no money.
They had to like move to acountry that they didn't know

(55:45):
the language, didn't have a joband it was not so they could
marry me off at 20.
That now should be my fate.
So no, this was not because ofmy parents, it was my own
stupidity Also a happy endinghere but I had to convince my

(56:06):
parents and my mom was just likeyou're not going to finish
college, you're not going to goto law school.
And I was like I promise I will, um, and she's like you're
going to end up having a babyand then you're going to see
like all of your life can getderailed.
So I really had to comfort herand even on the day of of our

(56:27):
Nikah, like our Islamic marriageshe was like we can still say
this is an engagement party,samira, no, no, you're very
young.
And uh, no, we went ahead withthem.
That was wonderful, but, um,the thing about having the kids
was, uh, something that we didwant to wait on.
You know, we were so young andwe decided to wait, and so I was
like 27, I think, when westarted trying to have kids and

(56:48):
it didn't really work out for us.
So it took a long time to fouryears before we had a kid and in
in that time period we had tolike you know you try and you
don't.
I mean, I think there's goodarticles about this, but it's so
amazing how little women knowabout their own bodies, like all
this time I thought I was goingto be accidentally getting

(57:09):
pregnant and it just happens andI'm like, oh, actually, you
know, if any of you havechildren, you know there's very
specific time that you canactually only have a baby and
it's not just going to happen,and so it didn't work out in the
beginning.
So we started exploringfertility treatments and so,
within this whole like fertilitycommunity of people who are

(57:30):
trying to get pregnant, there'sthis concept of the two week
wait.
So it's like on the forums,like to WW, but it's a term that
anyone who's kind of gonethrough the longer road to
having children is familiar with, and so I went through, um, the
hundreds of these you know wellthat's wrong.

(57:50):
Half a hundred of these umwaiting periods and so whenever
I was in the two week wait, I'dalways listen to Tom Petty's the
Waiting.

Speaker 1 (57:59):
Let's take a listen.
The waiting is the hardest part.
Every day get one more yard.
You take it on faith.
You take it to the heart.
The waiting is the hardest part.
The waiting is the highest.

Speaker 3 (58:32):
Yeah, I'm so emotional just even hearing that
song.
It really takes me back and Iknow so many people in my life
still who want children, who arestill in that waiting period
and, like your heart just goesout to those people that are
still like in that.
But, man, yeah, that that songreally will take me right back.

(58:55):
And then you know there's thelyrics that you played.
It's like you take it on faith,you take it to the heart.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
The waiting is the hardest part what you think is
the hardest part.
Yeah, so, other than listeningto tom petty, how did you kind
of navigate that that timeperiod?
How, how did?
How did you?
Because it, like you said, it'sthis thing where you're like,
you're so hopeful for it.
Right, it's this, it's thething you want, but you kind of
have to manage that hope becauseyou don't know, right, you've

(59:24):
got this waiting, and so for you, how, how did you balance?

Speaker 3 (59:28):
and it must feel eternal, like those two weeks
yeah, it's funny because I'mlike the most stupidly
optimistic person that you'llever meet, and so every month
for like 48 months, I was likethis, is it, I'm pregnant?
Like it, like it.
Literally it was just like thisricochet every you know 21 days

(59:52):
or whatever, being like, oh no,I'm not pregnant.
I actually wrote a piece atthat time called A Life in
Months and I think for anyonewho's kind of going through that
fertility experience.
that's really your life is justyou know, and you don't do
anything.
You make all your plans aroundit, like traveling, especially
when you're in the fertility aswe did, like six IUIs and then

(01:00:13):
three IVFs, and so it's just somuch coordination, like so many
doctors appointments and thingslike that.
But I think my optimism didhelp and also I was lucky.
I had a lot of miscarriages tooalong the way.
But you know, like everyonekind of has their, their
strengths and weaknesses ortheir challenges and blessings,
and for me one thing was like itnever hit me that hard, like

(01:00:35):
the miscarriages were alwayskind of easy for me to accept.
It was very much like and Ihate this expression and I, you
know I wouldn't project toanyone else, but for me it was
like that there was a reason forthat.
Like you know, I wouldn'tproject to anyone else, but for
me it was like that there was areason for that.
Like you, know, there's noabnormality or there's some
other issue.
Maybe that was like the nextevil dictator or fascist.
That wasn't me.
Thank God he's not going to beborn.

(01:00:56):
So you know, for my mind it wasalways like that.
I was like, oh good, the worldhas been saved again by my
miscarriage, thanks.

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
Wow, that's a good way to think about it.
Yeah, I mean, and that takes aspecial approach to be able to
do that right, because so oftenwe just get caught up in the
quote-unquote failure of it.
Right, when something doesn'tgo the way we wanted, we think
why me, why is the world notworking out for me?
And so being able to have thatperspective of saying like no,

(01:01:27):
there's, there's a reason, likethat might have been the, the
new dictator that we didn't want, right, so it's, it's a good
thing in the grand scheme, rightyeah, and I didn't do anything.

Speaker 3 (01:01:35):
I just want you to have that.
Maybe it's like rage againstone of these, like musical
influence along the way, andmyself something planted it in
there.
Yeah, so that was fortunate,but that song definitely helped
and I'm sure, a lot of othermusic as well.

Speaker 1 (01:01:50):
It's such an amazing perspective to have.
I was just thinking that, yeah,it's probably, you know, to
some it would be the worst, andit would be the worst outcome,
the thing that you want most,and it's just not happening.
And then you know on repeat,basically, um, and but, but,
yeah, but, but.
Your perspective on it was, is,is just, I mean, the only thing

(01:02:14):
that I can think of is like theeternal optimist.

Speaker 3 (01:02:16):
It's, it's um, amazing, yeah it's funny like on
this comedy bit now and it'slike because if you have kids,
you know it can be very hard.
There are many challenges tobeing a parent.
Especially for me, the youngkids was pretty easy, but as
they go older I feel like a lotmore of a responsibility to them

(01:02:38):
, whereas before you just kindof keep them alive and you know
they're so cute and it's.
I found that part to be easy,but now, just like the magnitude
of the responsibility of nottotally fucking them up is, you
know, pretty immense and yeah,not only giving them that care
but to be using them to bedecent people, and so I find it
more difficult now, particularlyand so I have this whole bit

(01:03:02):
which was like the universe kepttrying to help me be like you
don't have to be a parent.

Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
We're giving you an out.

Speaker 3 (01:03:10):
We keep giving you an out One thing I've never done
is listen to the universe.
We're just like no, no, it's me, universe.
I'm going to do all theseinterventions and spend, you
know, hundreds of thousands ofdollars, and then some of the
days when it's very bad.

Speaker 2 (01:03:29):
I'll just look at my husband and we're like for us,
this is so our fault.

Speaker 3 (01:03:34):
Yes, I'm, being a parent, very grateful for it and
uh, you know, I I do uh tellsome of my friends that where I
was like, look, you know it'shard and but one day you'll have
forgotten it so much You'llhate being a parent.
That's how much on the otherside of it you'll be.
Give them hope.
Like you know, you'll forgetall of this completely Right,
but you know I truly love beinga parent, in case my kids

(01:03:58):
somehow ever get anxious.

Speaker 4 (01:04:02):
It's, it's so true.
So, david and I have a daughter.
She's, she's so true.
Um, so, david and I have adaughter.
She's she's 18, and sosometimes people with younger
kids will ask us, like you know,does it get easier?
And I'm like no, like it's justa different hard, right exactly
to your point, like whenthey're little, the heart is
just trying to keep them alive.
Don't touch that, don't stickyour finger in there, don't fall
in there, don't get hit by car,you know.
And then, as they older, it'sjust like a more like emotional,

(01:04:25):
intellectual hard, like socialmedia and self-esteem and mental
health and your relationships,and like it's just a different
it's just a different kind ofhard.

Speaker 2 (01:04:35):
You just you just get to control less and less of
their world as they grow.
Right, when they're young, youcontrol their entire world, and
so that's kind of what.
When you said at the it's, it'seasier than that's how I kind
of think it.
It's like, yeah, cause you'rein complete control of
everything.
And then as they grow, you'vegot to, like you know, take
steps back and back and back,and that just gets hard.

Speaker 1 (01:04:58):
It's hard.
Yeah, none of it gets easy.
It's just different challengeum mine um so my 15 year old is
starting to drive and I've neverbeen more.

Speaker 3 (01:05:12):
And then the next thing will be okay, going off to
college, and then, whatever youknow, it's all a challenge,
it's I literally cannot think ofthat stuff like the stress of
you know I I can't even get myhead there for driving.
I'm just like they will haveself-driving cars by the time my
kids, hopefully.
I just kind of stave off thatanxiety.

(01:05:36):
And then they're all going to goto the same school.
I told them already we're goingto live five minutes from them
and the three of them have tolive in an apartment together.
So this is my plan is thenthey'll have each other to kind
of watch out for each other.
But man, yeah, I'm not lookingforward to that.

Speaker 4 (01:05:56):
Yeah, you're not wrong.
They might have self-drivingcars, and then I think you don't
have to white knuckle it, we'lljust move.

Speaker 3 (01:06:01):
I mean, we live in the city now so they don't
really have a need for it.
So maybe we'll move to New York.
Really, they won't make sense.

Speaker 4 (01:06:07):
Yeah, yeah, no need for a car there, you go, there
you go, which is the highway inthis area at night in the rain
with a kid who has his learner'spermit and that's it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:36):
Quite an experience.

Speaker 1 (01:06:38):
I was the person that was one that night.

Speaker 4 (01:06:41):
There's just nothing like being in a vehicle with
zero control and a child hasyour life in their hand.
Like you know what I mean.
There's just there's likenothing you can do and you're
just like break, break, break,like.

Speaker 3 (01:06:57):
I didn't say that.
That's like.
One good metric of like knowingyou're old is when it looks
like there's literally a 10 yearold driving cars.

Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:07:07):
Should I call the police?
What's going on?

Speaker 2 (01:07:08):
yes, yes, oh yeah, we've got a toddler driving over
here.
This is not okay oh my goodnessdefinitely the point of like.

Speaker 3 (01:07:18):
I remember when I was pregnant I used to just like
that because I was like, Ialways know what this baby is, I
control what it's getting.
You know, I, even back at thatpoint, I was aware of how that
was just fleeting.
And you know, each moment nowthey go to school and they can
read.
So, like, once they can read,right already they have all
these worlds accessible to them.

(01:07:38):
You know I can't read everysingle thing and nor would I
want to kind of, you know, addit to heavily what they're
reading.
But it's, you know, add it toheavily what they're reading,
but it's, you know, it's onlynine and seven, the girls.
And I'm like they'll come up tome with ideas and I'm like, oh,
what did?

Speaker 2 (01:07:55):
you hear about this.

Speaker 3 (01:07:57):
Oh yeah, I just need Susie in this book is dealing
with it.
I'm like okay, well, talk to me.
Something like that neverhappens, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:05):
Yeah, something like that ever happens, yeah, yeah,
yeah, it's.
It's that tough challenge.
You want your kids to be, youknow, achieve more than you, or
be more worldly than you, orhave a wife like you.
You, you want that, but it'stough when it happens because
you're like it's a challenge toyou too and so it is.
Yeah, it's tough again,controlling that world.
Right, when you control thewhole world, that's real easy.

Speaker 3 (01:08:25):
Then when you don't, becomes harder absolutely I love
traveling and I think of thetraveling I did in my 20s and
like hopefully my kids will havethat experience.
But, oh man, I made so many badchoices, situations that like
in hindsight I was like I'm solucky that all of my paths were

(01:08:46):
just so good, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:08:48):
Right, right, you know I'm lucky to be here right
now, yeah exactly so hopefullythat same good energy will
follow them.

Speaker 3 (01:08:57):
That's like such a fun part of life, right Like
that first time that you go outinto the world and you're in a
new country or a new culture,and they can't take that from
them either.
That's true.

Speaker 4 (01:09:08):
That's true Part of the experience.
Well, Samira, how does it feelto hear your life reflected in
these six songs?

Speaker 3 (01:09:20):
Oh, it feels great.
What a good life.
You know I love that Nice.
Yeah, I feel just even doingthe, the questionnaire and
reflecting it just makes you.
You know it's easy to losesight of how good the path is
right, how good the journey is,and all the wonderful things
that have happened along the way, so thank you for that.

Speaker 2 (01:09:41):
Yes, oh, that's awesome.
Yeah, we're glad to have you on, we're glad to be a part of it,
but we're not done yet.

Speaker 1 (01:09:51):
Raz has got our lightning round for you yeah,
first of all, thank you, um, andthat was probably the most
perfect answer that we've heardyet about.
You know now, looking back atyour life in these six songs, so
really appreciate that.
Okay, lightning round.
So what was your first, lastand best or favorite concert?

Speaker 3 (01:10:15):
My first was probably Oasis, but I don't remember it.
I literally had to look throughmy emails to find that.
My husband confirmed it for mebecause it was like his favorite
band.
The last concert oh, I have noidea what it was.
We've gone to a bunch so Icouldn't tell you that.
I think I've written it down.
But my best and my next concertis Pulp, which was literally

(01:10:37):
like the most transformative,like amazing experience.
We went to New York for theshow and jarvis cocker is just
the most phenomenal entertainer.
All the music is so good andwe've been waiting for them to
tour like literally.
I've had alerts and justlooking like we'll go around the
world for this, but they'recoming to new york, they're

(01:10:58):
coming to the us this year andso in september we're going to
go see them and probably do backto back shows like this.
I asked if you saw some artistslike I don't know if I going to
go see them, and probably do-back-to-back shows like this.
I'd ask you if you saw someartists.
I don't know if I'll get to seethem again.

Speaker 1 (01:11:11):
Where are they playing Do?
You know the venue.

Speaker 3 (01:11:14):
No, I can send it to you.

Speaker 1 (01:11:17):
Yeah, that sounds awesome.

Speaker 3 (01:11:21):
I'm so annoyed I can't remember the last.

Speaker 1 (01:11:24):
It'll come to you Second to last.
Yeah, second to last.

Speaker 4 (01:11:27):
It's the last one you remember.

Speaker 3 (01:11:31):
I'm not a good on-the-spot person, guys, I have
no idea.
It was somebody from the schooltoo.
That's why I want to rememberit, because I was like, oh, you
know who it was.
I remember now Because I justlistened to them on a podcast
the Killers and it was such agood show, how do you forget the
Killers?
I know I know that the anthemoh.

Speaker 2 (01:11:51):
Killers.
Didn't we see the Killers atthe anthem, or did we see
Killers?

Speaker 4 (01:11:57):
No, we saw Walk the Moon at the anthem.
We saw the.
Killers when we lived in Miami.
It was the first.
It's the story I I told thefirst concert I ever took you to
and you just stood there likethis and I was like he hates it.
He's having a horrible time andI didn't realize that.
That's how david communicates.
That he's like totally into themusic is that.
He's just like standing thereabsorbing it and I was like

(01:12:18):
absorbed.
I was like this guy hates likemy favorite band, like I don't
know if this is gonna to work.
They put on a really good show.
They do?

Speaker 3 (01:12:27):
I remember my husband was like do you want to go see
them?
I was like, oh, I don't know.
Do I really know their songs?
Then I was like, oh, this song,there's every word to it.
They're just really prolific.
A lot of hits.

Speaker 1 (01:12:39):
We saw them at the Merriweather Pavilion in
Maryland a couple years ago.
They opened with Mr Brightside.
It's like we can go home now,that's right, it was a fantastic
show.

Speaker 3 (01:12:55):
I saw Robin at Merriweather when I was nine
months pregnant.
There were all these reallyyoung girls around me.
I was just like.
She's doing a lot of dance,super pregnant, bopping around.
She is just like super pregnant.
She is going to have this baby.

Speaker 4 (01:13:12):
Oh my goodness, merriweather Pavilion or Post
Pavilion is an outdooramphitheater venue.
It's a good venue.
We saw AJR there.
It's really nice.
The field, the lawn area isreally nice.
It's like really nice, thefield, the like lawn area is
really nice.
Yeah, it's a good place.

Speaker 3 (01:13:29):
So far, though, I always have to think twice Like
do we really want this?

Speaker 4 (01:13:34):
Right Right, it's a trek to get out there, all right
.
So in the few minutes we haveleft as we're getting ready to
sign off, sumira, if there'sanything you've got going on
that you think people might beinterested in, or if anyone just
really really resonates withyour story and would like to
maybe reach out to you, how canthey do that?

Speaker 3 (01:13:56):
Yeah, nothing to promote except Free Palestine.
Please keep keeping at it.
If you're listening to this anddoing it, don't give up.
All the small work really doesadd up, and literally all I post
about on my Instagram.
So if you ever want to knowyour action item for the day,
there's usually something there.
So that's really the only thingI want to say.

Speaker 4 (01:14:18):
I love that.
That's wonderful.
Thank you so much.

Speaker 3 (01:14:22):
Thank you all so much .
This was super fun.

Speaker 2 (01:14:24):
All right, everybody, remember to like and subscribe,
share this episode with yourfriends and your network so we
can get these stories out thereand we will see you next time on
a life in six songs.

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Ep. 13 - Sumeera Younis: From Emotional Farewells to Social Justice

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep. 13 - Sumeera Younis: From Emotional Farewells to Social Justice