Ep. 7 - Notes of Hope: Change, Trauma, and the Family Bonds of Music - A Life in Six Songs

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
there was an embassy right next door to our school,
so we were kind of likecongregating there.
And then I looked to my leftand two more bombs went off,
like right in front of me.
It was across the street.
So you know, like what we saw?
We saw the smoke and everything.

Speaker 3 (00:39):
Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of A
Life in Sick Songs.
I am your host, david Rees, andI'm joined by my co-host,

(00:59):
carolina, and my childhoodfriend, raza.
Hey, hey, hey.
Hey, and you know, hey, we're sohappy you're tuning in to
another episode and, you know,are joining us on these
conversations.
You know we like to think of itas we're sitting around the
fire, out back, having somedrinks and, just, you know,

(01:22):
telling stories.
So, you know, pull up yourfolding chair and you know, sit
back and enjoy the conversation.
Our guest today is SarahMahmoud.
She is a clinical pharmacistfrom the DC area with a flair
for entrepreneurship, havingfounded a small business that
crafts study guides for bothaspiring and practicing health

(01:43):
professionals.
Beyond these professionalendeavors, she is a passionate
mental health advocate.
She is the youngest of threesiblings, with a significant age
gap between them, and you mightrecognize her older brother,
who happens to be one of ourco-host, raza Sarah, welcome to

(02:03):
A Life in Sick Songs.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
Thank you, I'm very excited to be here.

Speaker 3 (02:07):
Yeah, we're excited to have you.
So before we dive into your,your six, just kind of a broad,
kind of question give you achance to you know, share with
us just you know what?
What role has music played inyour life?
How do you see music in yourlife?

Speaker 1 (02:24):
Yeah, that's a great question.
I actually I think of music asit is my life.
You know I was exposed atbasically from the womb.
I come from a very musicalfamily.
I'm pretty sure my siblingswould be playing music when my
mom was pregnant.
We were yeah, so I literallygrew up on classic rock, heavy

(02:46):
metal, and I just associate itwith every key moment in my life
.
You know, keep people who I'vemet.
I can tie them to some sort ofsong.
So it's gotten me through goodtimes, bad times.
So it really just it's my life.
I love it.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
Great thanks for that .
Yeah, we're excited to chat.
All right, carolina, take usinto our first question.

Speaker 4 (03:10):
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, we're gonna just start atthe beginning.
Right, you talked about hearingmusic.
You think like in the womb,which is so special.
I'm sure there's like a lot ofscience behind what happens,
like in your door, of listeningto music.
But you know we'll, we'lltransition to just an early age
for your first question andfirst song.

(03:32):
What is a memorable time whenyou were first exposed to maybe
a band or an artist's music?

Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, so I think a lot of my exposure comes from my
brother, raza.
Again, he's always playingmusic.
When I, my earliest memory wasjust him jamming to songs,
playing the drums guitar.
He's always listening to musicand I remember we were in our
computer area in south Floridaand he played Chop Suey by

(04:02):
System of a Down and I justremember loving it.
I love the drums.
I thought it was funny.
The lyrics obviously don'treally make sense, especially
for a seven-year-old, but I justI became obsessed and I would
always have him play it 24-7 forme when he'd visit from college
oh, that's awesome let's take aquick listen all right, I

(04:51):
didn't realize.

Speaker 5 (04:52):
I brought your attention to that song, that's
you did yeah, you played it.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
You were visiting from college once and just
played it.
I think our uncle gave you a CDof these random rock songs and
this was one of them yeah, nothat was that was really old
stuff.

Speaker 5 (05:07):
That was like in the 80s and 90s.
This one I remember this waslike 2000, 2001 or so.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
So I met yeah, it was probably like love, junior,
senior year in college andvisiting and saying hey right,
yeah we're listening to up incollege young and I was seven,
and just imagine aseven-year-old knowing every
single word of the song.
That's how much I played itthat is awesome.

Speaker 3 (05:31):
You know we we've talked a lot, yeah, we, just we,
you know, we we talked a lot onthe show about, you know, and
it's kind of one of a theme ofthese, of the the show in the
sense of, like these songs thatfind their way to us and how,
just you know, chance it isright, and so you know, if raza

(05:52):
doesn't come home, that that onebreak in college and decides to
go to cancun instead, right,and and doesn't play system of a
down for you, right, you, youhave a completely different
trajectory and so it's just solike just fascinating the, the
way we kind of get these little,little nuggets exactly, yeah,

(06:13):
so I would look forward to himcoming, because I was only three
years old when he went tocollege, so I get very excited
every time he'd visit.

Speaker 5 (06:22):
Yeah, you were the baby, I mean still are right and
a lot of ways still are.
Yeah, it's like because my, mymental image of you is three
years old, for better or worse.
It's like yeah, no, no, no, notclinical pharmacists.

Speaker 4 (06:35):
It's like you know, it's the girl with the cheeks oh
, but yeah yeah well, and Ithink about just how kids are
just sponges, um, and a lot oftimes when you're little like
you get the lullabies and likethe songs that are in your
cartoons and and stuff like that.
But like the pivotal role thatsometimes parents who like veer

(06:59):
from that and are just likelistening to whatever they jam
out to, or the like deep impactof the older siblings and like
what that has on you as a kidyou're just like soaking that
all up and I mean chop suey.
Like melted my face when Ifirst heard it, right, so I can
only imagine.
At seven you're like this isamazing, this he's like yelling
but it's like so, like funky andcool, and you just like want to

(07:21):
sing it right all the time.

Speaker 3 (07:23):
Exactly so catchy yeah, man, it's so funny because
I think like in one way, systemof a down is like wild for a
seven-year-old to be listeningto, but in another way a lot of
the lyrics are so like it almostcould be from like a kids show,
right he's just saying soridiculous at times, and I you

(07:44):
know I love them for that too.
In that sense, they've eithergot like these lyrics that are
kind of nonsensey, or they're,like, like you know, talking
about real, like refugee issuesand like all international stuff
.

Speaker 5 (07:56):
Yeah, yeah, so cool.
Yeah, I don't know if you guysremember, but this is this song.
I'm gonna get a little bit sortof historical and nerdy here,
but this was I, if I remembercorrectly.
I'm almost positive this was2001 and I'm I think it's right
around the time of 9-11.
By the way I said I mean I'msorry, I'm sure you've heard

(08:17):
sort of part of our intro, butso Dave is a veteran and he was
deployed to Afghanistan and Iraqright after 9-11, and I
remember in 2001 there was thisthis big like stream of really
heavy rock, new metal they callit right, new metal that was
coming out, and a lot of itended up.

(08:39):
Also, there was questions aboutokay, is this, is this the
right time for us to be playingthis type of stuff on, like you
know, whether MTV or or on theradio slipknot, you know, iowa
came out.
I think I'm almost positivethis song came out right around
that time.
I remember Rob Zombie his secondalbum came out around this time

(09:01):
too, and there was a big sortof hoopla over is.
Is heavy music relevant?
Is it right, is it appropriateto play heavy music post 9-11
because the country is inmourning, we're potentially
going to war, all this otherstuff.
So, yeah, and I remember that.

(09:23):
So the Rob Zombie song that wasout he purposely, sort of, I
think, was that song feel sonumb and people were thinking,
well, you know Rob Zombie, youknow corpses and zombies and all
this other stuff.
He's like no, no, no, no, I'mgonna include incorporate
patriotism into the video forthat song.
I think feel so numb, wow, andand and it starts with just this

(09:46):
, it's like a silhouette of thezombie band against, you know,
against against the Americanflag, and it's like the coolest
incorporate incorporation of,like zombie cheerleaders and
it's like, dude, heavy music canbe patriotic too without being,
you know.
And I think that was one ofthose times where they sort of
found this happy middle between,okay, let's move forward, let's

(10:09):
enjoy music and you know theother serious stuff going on.
But there is a spot forentertainment as well, and then
and now, look at us, we arepartying all the time.

Speaker 4 (10:23):
I mean, I think that that's what can be so misguided,
dangerous, whatever you want tocall it about, kind of policing
the music we listen to.
You can listen to a song likeChop Suey and I'll say for our
listeners, the, the excerpt thatDavid played feels, you know,
just kind of yelly and intense.
But this song is a ride like ittakes you through a really

(10:45):
melodic chorus and then it getslike just really loud.
You feel like you're on thislike musical roller coaster, if
you will, and so you.
You could just make broad,biased assumptions about that,
that kind of music.
But at the end of the day Ithink we can't control what
makes us feel good, right, whatlike gives us life and energy

(11:07):
and like pumps us up.
And it's not always the thingyou think it would be right.
It's not always like thecheerful, happy pop song or the,
the romantic he loves song,like you know.

Speaker 1 (11:21):
I don't know, sorry, you might understand this more
from like a medical perspective,but like oh my nervous system
like whatever hits us, you can'tsort of control that yeah, I
was actually listening to thiswhile getting ready this morning
for this podcast and it like ithyped me up, it was crazy, put
me in such a good mood.
I like I heard it after yearsand I still remember every lyric

(11:42):
like it's so crazy.
This song just had such a bigimpact on my life, and so you
said it came out in around 2001,and 2003 is when I moved to
Pakistan with my parents, sothis exposed me to System of a
Down, so I love all of theirsongs pretty much.
And then it started to get alot more relevant to me because,
you know, the political scenein Pakistan got kind of crazy.

(12:04):
So I'm like, wow, this isactually.
I thought it was just likegibberish at first or nonsense,
like we said, but started to geta lot more relevant with songs
of this band.
So I continue to listen to itfor years so at seven, it wasn't
scary for you.

Speaker 5 (12:19):
Listening to this was not scary.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
I thought it was hilarious talking about waking
up and putting makeup on likethat's all.
Yeah, I didn't really listen tothe lyrics you right.
I know, yeah, it wasn't thelyrics of the song, it was just
like the drums.
The drums made me think of you,and the guitars and everything
it was like.

Speaker 5 (12:37):
This just reminds me of my brother the musician yeah,
all these scary guys would likereally funny haired.
Yeah, yelling and screaming,and then you eat cereal with
them in the morning yeah, Iliterally reminded them of all
your friends, like your bandfriends.
I'm one of them right now.

Speaker 3 (12:53):
They're not scary yeah, that's awesome that's
hilarious, yeah, I, um, I hadlike so many different thoughts.
We brought up so many differentthings there about, you know,
power of music and oldersiblings and war and 9-11 and
things and um, yeah that was alot.

(13:17):
That was a lot and and there's,you know, going back to that,
just a little bit of likehistory system of it down.
Has, you know, connections inthis way?
Because I want to say it's theguitarist is Iraqi-American
actually I don't even know he'sIraqi-American, armenian,
armenian.
Armenian and and someone well,someone has an Iraqi connection.

(13:37):
I think one of them has familythat was in Iraq.
Again, we've already talkedabout this of like not trying to
do live info that we haven'tsort of vetted and checked yet.
But yeah, and I think Iremember a system of down, you
know being at the kind of centerof a lot of these discussions,
raza, that you mentioned when,you know, after the war in

(13:59):
Afghanistan started, the war inIraq started and things, and
they were kind of right there atthat center of that point you
were bringing up of how do we,how do we do this now, how do we
still fight for social justiceand these things while you know
this, this time of war and stuff.
So yeah, yeah, yeah, it'sreally important historical.

Speaker 5 (14:22):
You know context there and um, yeah, I think
sometimes just acknowledgingthat yes, in the last 20 plus
year we've been through a lot is, um, like a lot has happened,
um, and I think sometimes welose sight of that and it's okay
to appreciate all of it.
You know the good, the bad, the, the ugly, the um, uh, the uh,

(14:47):
and then I think all of it hasimpact right and it and it for
different people that thingsimpact different way.
There's obviously a sharedexperience as well, and we're
trying to get to the shared partand highlight that more and
more or most of all.

Speaker 3 (15:01):
But yeah, it's all experiences, right yeah, we're
interviewing Sarah, notpolitical history and everything
.
So let's let's get.
Uh, let's get.
We'll get back focused.
Here it's life.

Speaker 4 (15:16):
It's music and and life and they're deeply, deeply
intertwined, um, but I'll keepus.
I'll keep us moving ahead, um,with continuing that sort of
thread of like you never knowwhat's gonna hit or what's gonna
make you feel good, or what youknow and it might not always
like make sense and in themoment, um, and so you'll
understand when we hear the nextsong.
But, uh, for your next question, what's a song that that has

(15:37):
helped you through a difficulttime and situation or situation,
and what was it?

Speaker 1 (15:43):
yeah, so first song that came to mind was lama ma
lama.
I don't know if I said thatright by l alpha um very upbeat
song.
It reminded me of recently.
Wait, sorry, I don't know, Iwas going with that one second.

Speaker 4 (16:01):
I can re-ask, no worries, yeah, yeah sure, yeah,
um, yeah so we're, so we're,we're.

Speaker 3 (16:08):
This is the question.
We're talking about being onthe clinical rotations and codes
and yeah, yeah, so for you.

Speaker 4 (16:17):
Yeah, so for your next song, um, the.
The prompt here is what's asong that has helped you through
a difficult time or situation?
Uh, and what was it?

Speaker 1 (16:29):
yeah, so the first song that comes to mind is la
mama de lama by l alpha.
Very upbeat song, very happysong, um, but when I hear it it
reminds me of some verydifficult days when I was on my
clinical rotations uh, forpharmacy, I was doing a pharmacy
residency and it was just avery intense time period, um.

(16:49):
So this is a song that kind ofhelped me get through that let's
take a listen.

Speaker 3 (17:28):
That's good stuff.

Speaker 4 (17:31):
How?
How does it feel listening toit now?

Speaker 1 (17:35):
You know it'll always put me in a good mood.
Again, I was also listening tothis.
I was listening to all sixsongs getting ready this morning
and I was yes, I was just liketwerking while getting ready for
ever put me in a good mood.

Speaker 4 (17:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:48):
I can imagine particularly.

Speaker 4 (17:51):
I don't have a medical background but you know
intense times in your life, likeyou know, residencies are, you
know, just dealing with withpatients, tough situations,
really difficult outcomes, likefor folks in the medical
profession.
How do you recover rechargefrom just the difficulties of

(18:15):
what you see just day in and dayout?

Speaker 1 (18:18):
Yeah, very difficult.
So one thing about residency isthat you're still kind of in
training, so a lot of peopledon't really know what they're
doing yet.
But then you're still alicensed pharmacist so you have
all that responsibility still.
So it's just a really scarytime.
And then you have crazy hours,working up to 80 hours a week,

(18:39):
some shifts like I'll have anormal nine to five of rotation
and then after that I'll be oncall or just staffing at the
normal pharmacy, so it turns outto be like a 16 hour day and
you're so tired and then all ofa sudden your pager will go off,
like somewhat the code bluecardiac arrest.
So as a pharmacist at ahospital, we're one of the first

(19:00):
responders.
We're the ones who have all themedications that we run like we
run the whole team runs to thepatient.
Everyone's freaking out.
Doctors are like where's thepharmacist?
Where's the pharmacist?
We need a pharmacist here rightnow.
And even in pharmacy school Idid not know I was going to be
doing all of this, so it wasjust so crazy, so I'd be running

(19:22):
.
I'm tired as hell.
There's a patient literallydying next to me and on the spot
, I have to think of everymedication, like what's the
right medication to give?
I have to draw it up on thespot, pushing the drugs or
giving it to the provider,telling them exactly what to do.
Like the doctors are relying onthe pharmacist for all that
information, doing math on thespot.
So it's just a lot, and a lotof times, thankfully, the

(19:45):
patient was able to survive.
But then there's some wherethey don't, and that's it was
just so crazy.
I'm like, wow, someoneliterally just died in front of,
like inches away from me, andthen you know, you see their
family they're crying and it'sjust like a really intense
emotional experience.

Speaker 3 (20:05):
So I can imagine.
I mean and now you know somepeople might be wondering again,
like you know, how does thissong Work into that?
Like you just described, youknow this terribly difficult
time and then this is the songattached with it.
Were you listening to this songand songs like it like right in

(20:25):
the moment, like right afterthe code, and you got five
minutes to breathe?
Would you like go to a you knowa closet somewhere and you know
kind of put this on to pump itup?
Or was this more like after thedays over and you're driving
home or something like that?
Are you putting this?

Speaker 1 (20:39):
music on.
I wish I could listen to itright after, because you're just
so winded after that.
But unfortunately you're donewith the code and then you have
to go straight back to work,like that's how intense it is,
so I didn't even have time tolisten to it.
So, more so, after the daysover I come home, you're kind of
in like panic mode and you knowyou're you just, I don't know

(21:02):
what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (21:03):
Sorry, it's like you're just like a fight or
flight on the ground, yeah it'sa lot of adrenaline.

Speaker 1 (21:09):
You're in fight or flight mode, you're still kind
of pumped, so you just go backto work, finish everything.
But then, yeah, the second Iwould get home to a silent
apartment alone.
That's when I could actuallyprocess like what the heck just
happened.
So I'm like, wow, I'm not okayright now.
I just dealt with a lot.
Yeah, I can't even sleep rightnow, so I would just play.

(21:31):
I'm like I need to listen tomusic, I need to dance or
something like get this out ofmy system.
I don't work out, so that's notmy life.
So I'm like I need to just yeah, I need to dance.
So I'll play bad buddy.

Speaker 3 (21:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:44):
I'm like I just I need to find like the twerkiest
song and just twerk it out, andthen I can go to sleep and then
do it all again the next day.

Speaker 5 (21:52):
Yeah, so is it in the emergency room setting?
You know, and again, I have noreference point, so I think I
should ask you as a, as the, asthe, as the professional so is
it like in the movies and in theTV series where it's super high
intensity, there's stuff goingon, okay, you know, stretchers
coming through and ambulancesand and and and.

(22:15):
You know everything stat, youknow, because, compared to the
legal world, right like lawyershows are, I think, exaggerated,
they're overly hyped, they'reoverly dramatized.
It's usually actually prettyboring to go to court.
It's like very standard,methodical and and up down vote,

(22:35):
yes, no, you know, wins, losses, whatever, so so, but but the
ER experience, is it sort ofaccurately depicted?
What's your experience beenlike?

Speaker 1 (22:46):
It is.
It's pretty similar becauseeven in that moment I'm like,
wow, this is just like Grey'sAnatomy.
Yeah, I felt like I was on anepisode of Grey's Anatomy and
like, wow, this is what I alwaysdreamed of doing.
And now I'm actually here andit's a little intense.
So, yeah, I think that'sprobably the most accurate
representation, not all Grey's.
Anatomy is accurate.

(23:06):
I actually was watching a fewepisodes.
I'm like that's not right,that's not the right medication.
Yeah, what are they talkingabout?

Speaker 4 (23:14):
That's funny, that's good.
I think I worked in a yard forfor a few years not not on the
medical side, on the operationsside but I did witness my fair
share of codes and things likethat.
I think on the patient side you, you it can be like
misrepresented on on TV orthings just how many people
respond to a code Like that?

(23:35):
Room is bursting at this.
It's packed full of respiratoryfolks, pharmacy folks,
physicians nurses in and out theEMTs and paramedics that like
maybe brought the person or like, I mean, these rooms are like
packed, and so this is this isthat gentle moment for folks.

(23:56):
If you ever go to an ER andyou're waiting a really long
time and you haven't seenanybody in a bed, it's cause,
you know, everybody all hands ondeck might be trying to save
somebody, and so patients it'scrazy.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:09):
And then some people have like 10 family members in
the room too and you know theywant, some really want to be
there and you have to respectthat.

Speaker 4 (24:17):
So we allow all of them in there too, and it's just
a mess, yeah, and all thethings, if, if, if that person
is crashing due to some sort ofviolence, up there's police
everywhere.
I mean the amount of people is.
I don't, I don't think folks,folks realize that unless you
sort of work in that world.
All right, we will.

(24:38):
We will pivot and transitionout of challenging situations,
because you do have a lifeoutside of your clinical and
pharmacy life.
So for for your next song, andprompt here, what's?
A song that is intimatelyconnected to just another
activity.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
For this one first thing that came to mind was
hopeless wanderer by Mumford andSons, and this reminds me of my
favorite activity, of justhanging out with my dad chilling
after a long day of work.
My dad, he, loves music.
I think he's the one whoexposed my brother and me to
music very on, so we have verysimilar music tastes and

(25:18):
personalities.
So this is just one of thesongs that reminds me of
spending time with him All rightlet's take a listen.

Speaker 2 (25:27):
Hold me fast.
Hold me fast because I'm ahopeless wanderer.
Hold me fast.
Hold me fast because I'm ahopeless wanderer.
Now we're locked.

(25:49):
Now we're locked.
Love the skies, I'm a day.

Speaker 4 (26:00):
Now we're locked.
How does it feel listening toit now?

Speaker 1 (26:04):
Just makes me think of my dad every time.
That whole album, actuallyBabel by Mumford and Sons.
I think my sister gifted thatto my dad.
She's like I think you'llreally like this.
So I guess, just for somebackground, my dad he also
worked for Bose for a while, thespeaker company.
So, every corner of our house.
My brother knows this.

(26:26):
There's a Bose speakersomewhere.
So he actually has the famous901 speakers, like the massive
wooden ones that he put in ourliving room that they just sound
so amazing, and he just he'lllisten to everything on that.
He listens to Drake on that,like everything.
Yeah, imagine a 74 year old manlistening to.

(26:46):
Drake, just like the beat.
It just sounds so good and youcan really hear every instrument
and every note of everyinstrument being played.

Speaker 4 (26:54):
Yeah, we did a hand pointed that.

Speaker 5 (26:58):
So he's, he's an audiophile right, he's, it's,
it's not necessary.

Speaker 4 (27:03):
I don't know that, but I think wow.

Speaker 5 (27:06):
Yeah, this is, yeah, this is now.
That's so much more perspective, right, yeah, yeah, so it's not
.
It's not the words, it's not,it's not any one particular
thing, it's not.
You know what's an artistsaying?
It's okay, well, how does thebass sound?
Where are the mids?
Like it's reactive, like that.
I think something about that.

(27:26):
It's very, I guess, holistic,organic.
And he's like yeah, I mean,check out the stereo effect on
this, and it could be theviolinist, like you know, like
two life crew, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (27:41):
You know it's like oh man, the bass really hit really
hard.

Speaker 5 (27:44):
It's like, dad, do you have any idea what they're
saying?
I don't care Exactly, wow.

Speaker 3 (27:51):
Do you instrument of?

Speaker 5 (27:52):
the speakers.

Speaker 3 (27:54):
Do either of you know really, because you said you
know he worked at Bose and soyou know, had all this did.
Did the working at Bose comefrom being an audio file, or was
it the other way around?
Did he happen to get a job atBose and then being around it
like that grew?

Speaker 5 (28:13):
Yeah, so he's, he got his first.
Like when I was born, healready had his first set of
Bose speakers, I think.
Oh, because I've always, he'salways had some, some set of
Bose speakers.
So I think it was more like afan type thing.
It's like being a guitarist allyour life retiring and then,
just for shits and giggles, yougo work at guitar center just to

(28:33):
be around it.
So, that's kind of the context.
You know, our dad retired a fewyears ago and I think, yeah,
just to keep busy and being, youknow, and staying active and
keeping the like the nervesfiring and staying with it.
He's very interested in staying, you know, relevant in our

(28:55):
around, the people around himand what are they up to, and
that's how he keeps up the date.
So Bose was one way, I think,of doing that.
Plus he got little perks andstuff as well.

Speaker 4 (29:08):
I mean, I'm checking on you, David, if you're okay,
because I think that's like oneof your dreams is to have like
speakers.

Speaker 3 (29:15):
Oh, I know Really.

Speaker 4 (29:17):
If you're watching the video, watching David's face
and the grinding- videos ofscience having speakers
everywhere.

Speaker 3 (29:25):
I'm thinking back to my dad, and my dad was
audiophile on that way too.
We had, you know, he was theone that like, climbed up in the
attic to run the one speakerwire to get that back right
surround sound speaker goingbecause the wires had to be
hidden and you know you had tohave that.
But he did not work at Bose, heworked at a fruit company as an

(29:49):
accountant and so we got a lotof free fruit and stuff like
that, but that's, I don't think,as cool as Bose speakers and
stuff.
So yeah, a little envious there, and I think my dad would be
too.
I think my dad would say, hey,why couldn't?
I've been an accountant forBose.

Speaker 5 (30:06):
Yeah, yeah, it's so funny, he's so cute.
And it's odd hearing SARSversion of the same Because.
I have a similar but like Ithink there's a big time gap as
well, so it's funny.

Speaker 1 (30:18):
Again, he plays Drake for me.
My dad actually got me intoDrake because I guess he was
playing it for some client atthe Bose store, I don't know.
So he's like have you heardthat Drake?
Song Like no.
Why are you listening to Drake?

Speaker 4 (30:34):
What comes to mind for me, I think sometimes we,
you know, they're just ourparents, right, like we take for
granted, like it's just dad.
But like just how cool it isthat you have a parent in his
seventies now is he, yeah whohas just such an open mind and
perspective to all differentkinds of music.

(30:55):
You know, I think that's reallyrare and just how lucky are the
two of you.
Like that's so cool, so fun.

Speaker 1 (31:02):
Yeah, I remember I was driving his car once and the
music that was playing it waslike techno.
Like dad, what are you doing onfull volume?
I'm like this is a Bose musicright here.
That's so great.

Speaker 3 (31:17):
And so, just like you know, I think you know there's
an important lesson in there forus younger folks here right Of
how to you know, live your lifeand be.
You know, like at 74, you couldsay like I've seen it all.
You all don't know anything,and I'm.

(31:38):
You know this, but you knowthat's a way to be miserable.
And so you can.
You can say, hey, there's aworld around me with all this
exciting stuff and so let mejust soak it in.

Speaker 4 (31:50):
Yeah, Well, I think yeah, I mean a lesson for us as
we get older, a lesson for thoseof us who are parents and
parents who are listening.
But I hear just in my side giglots of conversations around
just intergenerationalrelationships and how we have

(32:13):
folks much older still in theworkplace and how just those
folks with like Gen Z, howeverybody's getting along, and
so I love your dad's sort ofattitude of like just staying
young and like, yeah, I want tolisten to that.
I don't care what it is, youknow, I think that's a role
model for all of us and I'm justgoing to go ahead and invite
him on the show.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:35):
It would be a good job.

Speaker 4 (32:38):
All right.
So you know, as as as we'retalking through your songs and
all of these memories that comeup, you know there's sort of the
the difficult challenges withwork, but our lives sometimes
take turns and we have totransition and pivot a lot

(32:59):
throughout our lives.
It's been actually a commontheme with with a lot of our
guests is how folks navigateweighty transitions.
So for your next song, andprompt what?
What is that song that youassociate with a weighty
transition in your life and whatwas it?

Speaker 1 (33:13):
Yeah, so this one also kind of going off the dad
thing.
So my dad exposed me to heyJude by the Beatles.
He was an Abbot Beatles fan sohe exposed me to that during
transition.
So the first major transitionin my life was moving from South
Florida to Pakistan when I wasnine and he exposed me to this

(33:34):
song kind of around that time.
So every time I hear it it sortof takes me back.

Speaker 3 (33:41):
Let's take a listen.

Speaker 4 (34:19):
How does it feel?

Speaker 1 (34:21):
Yeah, it was great, yeah, and even listening to it
now I feel like this is such apositive song.
That kind of it still gets methrough tough times and
transition.
So again, the move to Pakistanwas probably the biggest first
transition in my life and Iremember so once we moved there
I hadn't, I wasn't startingschool yet.

(34:43):
I was homeschooled for aboutsix months.
So I was kind of alone, didn'thave friends yet, didn't know
anyone.
So again, I would kind of usemusic to help me get through
that transition and this was myfavorite song at the time.
I did play the piano for a fewyears.
I took lessons when I waslittle, and then this became the

(35:03):
first song that I learned howto play by ear.
So that was really cool.
So I started playing this everyday just during that time when
I really had nothing else to do.
And I actually remember I had alittle book where I could read
and write music a little bit.
So I actually wrote the notesof the song too.
I learned piano in Floridabefore, like before that move,

(35:27):
and then I still I brought mykeyboard with me to Pakistan and
I didn't have lessons anymoreobviously.
So I just started playingeverything by ear, and hey Jude
was the first song that Istarted playing by ear, and once
I finally nailed it, I wroteall the notes in this little
book.
And just last month I was goingthrough my closet.
I'm back home now and Iactually found that same book of

(35:50):
all these songs that I wrote asa nine-year-old and I drew like
little pictures and graphicsalong with it and I was like,
wow, I really did that.
Aww.

Speaker 4 (36:00):
Aww yeah.
And that's hard.
The line is you've started tomake friends in your
neighborhood and moving to, just, despite being of Pakistani
heritage, still moving toanother country, leaving what
you've known your whole life.
Yeah, it's really hard at thatage.

Speaker 1 (36:21):
It was hard.
I remember landing and I'm likewhere who guys brought me?
There's like donkeys on thestreet, the traffic.
There's no concept of lanes andtraffic or traffic lights.
It was just so chaotic.
People shouting on the streets.
I'm like, what is this place?
I'm American.

Speaker 3 (36:40):
It's true, that's yeah, and it's funny, carolina,
like you said, you know, likeyou all are Pakistani Americans
and so you are not an entireforeigner going back.
But that can almost make itworse, I think, in some ways,

(37:01):
because you're sort of like Ishould get this more.
I should feel you know, likeyou know, and so, yeah, that's a
struggle.
You're going back to a placethat you, you is part of you,
but you you're not, like yousaid, you're a foreigner.
You're a group in the States,you know, and, yeah, that can be
, that can be a challenge.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
Exactly.
And then finally startingschool.
That was a transition in and ofitself because I was like
American girl with Americanaccent and I'd get made fun of
for that, whereas when I movedback to the States after that I
kind of had a Pakistani accent,so I'd get made fun of for that
too.
So it's like wherever I am, I'mstill an outcast.

(37:43):
I guess it was hard.

Speaker 4 (37:46):
Yeah, that's, that's a thing as an immigrant myself.
I was born in Latin America, Iwas born in Colombia, I moved to
the United States and, and Idon't know, Rob, if you feel
this way too but sometimes youcan just feel like you don't fit
in anywhere, Like you're not ofyour home country enough to get
like all the slang and all thejokes and all the stuff.
But you don't.
You're not as American as applepie either, because you come

(38:08):
with all of this like heritage.
You know that's different withyou, and so sometimes, yeah, I
feel just like just nomadic,Like what?
What am I?

Speaker 1 (38:18):
Am I exactly?

Speaker 5 (38:20):
I have this odd, so it must be.
I must be an oddball in thisand in that.
I actually have not felt out ofplace anywhere.
I didn't.
I'm very yeah, Well, yeah.
I'm very lawyer.
Like, I'm very comfortable withthe fact that I was born in

(38:43):
Lahore, pakistan.
I speak the language fluently,I understand, like all of it,
and I'm also, like, equallycomfortable living in America,
being, you know, an attorney bytraining and and, and you know,
enjoying like the nuances ofeverything that's considered
American, because that in itselfhas all sorts of different

(39:04):
nuances and, you know, wheredoes an immigrant sort of fit
into that?
And I've definitely had thesekinds of conversations and I've
thought about it.
It's like am I Pakistani, am IAmerican?
Am I half this, that the other?
You know, what am I?
What are my kids?
Where's my family?
Like I've sort of grappled withall of that.
But honestly, I feel very, verycomfortable, and I hate to take

(39:28):
this back to 9-11, but that wasprobably the only time where I,
I, I, I had some really distinctthoughts about, okay,
culturally, where do I fit intothis horrific event that just
happened?
Yeah, and I don't want to gooff in tangent but, but yeah, so
I.
So I thought about it and I'vethought about it over over many

(39:48):
years and decades, and now, youknow, as a parent and things
like that, but, and and I'vetraveled back to Pakistan and I
visited and I felt just asPakistani there is like yo high
five, let's play cricket, youknow, and.
And then coming, and thenarriving back, and whether it
was Houston or or, or New York,or whatever it's like you know,

(40:09):
we'd land, I land back at theairport, I high five the customs
guy who signs my passport andI'm on my way.
Maybe I'm lucky in that way, Idon't know, because obviously,
you know, there's all sorts oflists and things like that.
Those, those are facts.
Some people are discriminatedagainst, some people are.
You know, I've seen lineups andstuff traveling to Europe.

(40:30):
You know, here comes thePakistan air, the PIA flight,
landing in, I guess, london andthe entire, the entire plane.
The list of passengers has tohave a separate line.
This was many, many years agoand they check and double check
and confirm and reconfirm statusand visas and blah, blah, blah.
There's dogs, I get it Like.

(40:51):
I know that it exists.
But me personally, myexperience has by and large been
, you know, okay, I'm good, I'mgood here, I'm good there, I'm
good everywhere.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
I'm sorry, but that's my experience kind of sucked,
like the complete opposite.
I was always kind of a shyperson growing up, so these
transitions were really hard forme.
So, unlike my brother, I wasn'tfluent in Urdu when we moved
there.
I always I was able tounderstand it.

(41:22):
I spoke Urdu up until I wasmaybe three years old and then,
once I went to preschool and was, you know, learning from an
American schooling, I just Istarted speaking English and
only English from there on.
So when I moved to Pakistan andeveryone's speaking Urdu, I'm
like I, I understand you, butlike I would always respond in
English and then I feel likethey'd give me a weird look.

(41:44):
So that was hard for me.
Teachers would pick on me.
There, the teachers, they'rekind of mean and scary, Like we
had an Urdu class, just like anEnglish class here, and feel
like they'd purposefully call meout and like okay, sorry, you
tell me what, what this is, andlike tell me your thoughts on

(42:04):
this thing and I'd start talkingin English and then you're like
no, in Urdu, and then I justfreeze.
And that's actually where a lotof my social anxiety stemmed
from thinking back.
So it was rough for me.

Speaker 3 (42:18):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I could.
I could totally get that, likeyou know, and that goes back, I
think, to a little bit of what Iwas thinking about before of
like there's an expectationright Of of you should be
speaking this, you should knowthis, and you know Carolina
talks about that in in, in theLatin culture of like if your
kid doesn't, you know, it's likethey should speak English,

(42:40):
because that's why we moved tothe States and you got to, you
know, succeed and whatever, butat the same time, like what,
they don't speak Spanish.
That's terrible.
You know in this and that, andso I'm glad you brought that up
because I was gonna.
That was a question I had in mymy head about language.
Right, where was your fluencywhen you moved?
And I think that can speak toyou a little bit of the
different experiences in thatway of like you were saying of,

(43:01):
of being raised and born in theUS and then going back and that
that struggle.

Speaker 1 (43:08):
It was hard, yeah, and I was.
So I briefly talked about thatsix month period where I was
homeschooled.
So my mom actually homeschooledme and she taught me how to
read and write in Urdu fromscratch.
So by the time I started thefourth grade I could read and
write.
So they kind of assumed that Iknew Urdu.
So they put me in the sameadvanced class as everyone else.
But inside I'm like I can'ttalk though.

(43:31):
Like what is this?
Like, yes, I get, I canunderstand it, I can write, and
if you ask me to answer aquestion out loud, I'll freeze.
And that's literally where mysocial anxiety came from,
because they would do that, theywould call on me all the time.
So it was hard.

Speaker 5 (43:45):
But, slowly.

Speaker 1 (43:46):
As the years progressed, I got more
comfortable speaking in Urduwith my friends because everyone
speaks English and Urdu there.
So I got a little bit morecomfortable, but it was
definitely a rough transition.

Speaker 3 (43:57):
Yeah, so so any teachers listening out there you
know there's a kind, supportiveway to challenge their students
and then a way that can cancause them anxiety and issues
later on.
So you got to find that thatbalance.
Be kind, be kind.

Speaker 5 (44:12):
Be kind always.
Maybe the token Pakistanteacher.
What is this kindness?
My God, yeah, I would show youkindness, you get something
wrong there.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
They're like literally throw your book across
the room.
Oh yeah, Context.

Speaker 5 (44:29):
Maybe I can add a little bit of context.
It's when we so we grew up inthe city, right Like Pakistan,
it's a country of what?
250 million people and there'sthree, four major metropolitan
areas.
We grew up in one of them, andby major metropolitan I mean
like 13 plus million people and,and you know people come in all

(44:52):
sorts of.
You know flavors andbackgrounds and things like that
.
And this, to give you context,would be sort of you know a
proper school, brick and mortar,and you know there's, there's
amenities, there's computers,there's, there's those types of
things that you know for betteror worse.
Even Sarah had access to.
I had access to growing up inthe 80s, whatever you imagine.

(45:14):
So, but yeah, I think the, the,the.
As far as the language barrier,I, the closest equivalent that
I've been able to find, is, Ithink, like if you imagine some
countries in Europe, like Sweden, if you go to Stockholm, people
are fluent in English.
They can probably speak betterEnglish than than than you know

(45:34):
native speakers, but thenobviously they also speak
Swedish and it's a completelydifferent language.
You know different structureand everything.
So there's like a millisecondor two of if you, if you, if you
say hello or or hey, you know,but but, and and and, and it
takes a second or two todetermine, okay, are you a

(45:54):
Swedish speaker or are you anEnglish speaker, but then
they'll respond immediately andthere's almost almost no
language barrier, right?
So it's kind of like that.
It's like, okay, you need toknow, you need to know what,
what the native language is.
There is an expectation If youhave brown skin, black hair,
you're probably Pakistani, sospeak in your language.
However, in certain situations,if you don't respond in English

(46:18):
, then it's almost like a, likea status thing that oh well, you
know, oh, you don't even speakEnglish.
Oh right, so it can be, it canbe difficult, in in like a multi
, a multitude of ways and andthese are nuances that you have
to sort of navigate, andsometimes it's it's, it's
difficult, it is difficult, itcan be difficult.

Speaker 4 (46:40):
So yeah, and difficult when you're young and
you're trying to Find your way,but not stand out too much and
not, like you know, be sort ofthe outcast or be made fun of.
You just want to kind of fit inright when you're young and
that can be really hard.
Yeah, I, I, I sympathize, I, Iknow that feeling.

(47:01):
Yeah, all right.

Speaker 3 (47:04):
I'm glad you had the Beatles there to help you
through.
Oh, always To bring it back.

Speaker 1 (47:11):
Yes, yeah.

Speaker 4 (47:13):
Music does that for us often, and particularly too,
I think, when we travel andwe're experiencing like new
places or we're feeling out ofour otherwise comfortable
element, like what brings usthat comfort.
So it's really cool that youhad that and something that kind
of anchored you maybe towardsEnglish even though the Beatles
are British but gave you alittle comfort.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
Yeah, and that's actually a really good point,
because it is it's music thatactually helped me connect with
so many people, even in Pakistan.
So when I started school I madefriends with everyone and a lot
of them they had really goodmusic tastes, like they listened
to rock too.
Their parents exposed them tothe Beatles and Led Zeppelin,
everything.
I'm like wait, my dad listensto that too, and it kind of
became a bonding thing andthat's.

(47:57):
I made so many friends throughthat, and same with my
transition back to the US.
They're like, OK, who's thisweird girl from Pakistan?
But wait, she has like a sickmusic taste.
So that's how I was able tomake friends when I moved here
back in high school.
So it was really cool.

Speaker 5 (48:13):
Was it odd for like a nine year old to listen to the
Beatles and some of the old, andthen maybe for you and your
friends as well?
Did you guys think that it was?
It was like you know, old andclassic, or was it like?
No, this is still cool.
It's still relevant.

Speaker 1 (48:27):
It was still cool.
Yeah, I didn't think of it asany different than the modern
songs, and I think again, myfriends too.
They all had parents and uncleslike our parents age who
probably exposed them to thesame thing.
So I think I made friends whohad similar experience with that
.

Speaker 3 (48:45):
Yeah, yeah, it's always that question of like the
music you listen to when youwere like in high school or
something like that, like whenit was like just everything.
Was it good because it was whenyou were in high school or is
it good because it was actuallylike good?
And so you see these thingswhere certain songs or groups or
genres or whatever speak topeople in different generations

(49:09):
in ways and at different pointsin their life, and so you know
that's kind of that thing ofwhere it's like no, there's,
there's something more going onhere than just well, it was just
the music that was on.
So, yeah, it brings me back andI remembered it's, it's good
music.

Speaker 1 (49:22):
Right and I think in my generation.
It's like it was cool to likeold music.
It's like, oh, it's cool tolisten to classic rock.

Speaker 4 (49:31):
Right, it's vintage or retro or whatever.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (49:35):
I remember Guitar Hero was a big thing for that
when I was I taught.
I taught middle and high schoolfor a few years and and yeah,
my students knew, knew all ofthis stuff and it was a lot
because they were finding itfrom.
You know Guitar Hero and stufflike that.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
I mean the musicians, yeah.

Speaker 3 (49:52):
Yeah, the musicians knew it right, because they've
been doing it forever.
But, like for everybody, itreally just Guitar Hero really
blew it up.

Speaker 1 (49:59):
Yeah, I feel like Guitar Hero was a great way to
expose people to rock and goodmusic Because, yeah, a lot of
the songs I listened to wereactually from playing Guitar
Hero when I was 12.
Yeah, we could play list of thestrokes.

Speaker 3 (50:13):
Nice.

Speaker 1 (50:13):
I got that from Guitar Hero.

Speaker 4 (50:15):
Reptilia.

Speaker 1 (50:18):
Yeah, I know, that.

Speaker 4 (50:19):
I love that you got to use like music as like a
social currency.
Yes, to like trade and meetpeople right, when other
cultural aspects might have beenlike just a little awkward or
you know you're trying to figureout your way.
So that's, super cool.

Speaker 5 (50:35):
Isn't it funny how it doesn't matter, it almost
doesn't matter, that you movedfrom South Florida to Pakistan,
right, I love this word ofsocial currency, or music as
social currency.
That's so on point.
Because, like I'm thinking of,like Dave's example, moving from
Jersey to Florida and it's justlike what was the thing that
helped in that transition?
It was music.

(50:57):
Some guy introduced him to Rush, right, or there was some
things about a fact and say, oh,you like this music, I like it
too.
Great, like we can be friends,we have something in common.
Yeah, that's awesome.

Speaker 1 (51:09):
Yeah, and another type of music that really helped
me was Bollywood music.
So in South Florida, grew uplistening to Bollywood music and
that was a way of me connectingwith the people in Pakistan.
They're like, oh, she'sAmerican, but wait, she knows
all about Bollywood.
Wow, so I was able to make alot of friends.
We connected that way as well.
That's cool.

Speaker 4 (51:30):
You're like vetted a little bit, like she gets it.
Yeah, I know Bollywood.

Speaker 1 (51:33):
Because you know it's the same language that we speak
, so that was also a good way ofconnecting, super cool and
relating to others.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (51:43):
Social currency and social identifier.
Yes, it's a way to find yourpeople right, so you know your
stuff.
It still happens now all thetime.
Carolina Lassai well, you know,rush is my favorite band and
I'll wear a Rush shirt in theairport and sure enough, someone
will come over.
Hey, man, love it, saw them in82.
And blah, blah, blah.
And it's just like this thing,and you have this moment and

(52:04):
they go off and it's like thatway of just hey, that person's
going to get me Right and so,yeah, it's this currency to say
like, hey, I'm legit, I can hang, but also, hey, those are my
people, I connect over this.

Speaker 4 (52:20):
So, yeah, it happens all the time my daughter's like
what is happening, like you're,not like a celebrity.
What is with this like shirtthat gets you Like random dudes
coming up all over the place.

Speaker 3 (52:31):
And it's usually always dudes, and it's usually
always dudes, and you know hehad to think about it for like a
while at the airport.

Speaker 4 (52:38):
He's like do I say something to him?
I say something.
He's wearing the shirt.
Do I walk up to him, do I not?
You know like, and then likeworks up the courage to walk
over and be like love your shirtman.

Speaker 1 (52:47):
Like when I started high school back in the States,
I would purposefully wear all myband T-shirts so people would
know that, okay, this girl'scool, she knows what's up.
And then that was actually areally good conversation starter
too, like oh yeah, I think Iwent to that same concert as you
, so yeah, that's a good pointTotally, and that's it.

Speaker 3 (53:05):
That's like instant friendship, right?
Exactly you don't need anythingelse, it doesn't matter.
You know where you're, fromwhat language you speak.
If I see you wearing that,whatever shirt it is, and I'm in
, you know it's in.
Yeah, Because again.

Speaker 1 (53:20):
I had social anxiety so I did not have the courage to
initiate conversations at thetime.
This was back in high school,so I would use my music and my
shirts and posters to showpeople who I am.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (53:34):
I love that so much, so great.

Speaker 4 (53:36):
You just like put it out there like I'm good people,
this is who I like.

Speaker 2 (53:39):
Yeah, I'm cool, I promise.
I feel like the spin tip.

Speaker 3 (53:42):
And I just had another like, thought too of
like, with both of you, rauzaand Sara.
You know so much of this musicliteracy you have is from your
dad, and how much music hasgiven you this currency, this
armor, this ability to movethrough the world, and so, like
you know, it's like the bestthing a parent could do, right?

(54:04):
He gave you this tool, thisknowledge, this appreciation
that's helped you navigate theworld in challenging situations,
and so that's just like yeah,thank you, what a wonderful gift
.

Speaker 5 (54:18):
Yeah, thanks dad.

Speaker 1 (54:20):
That's it dad.
Thanks dad, thanks dad.
Thanks to my siblings alsoHaving again we have that big
age gap, so my siblings werekind of like a second set of
cooler parents so they alsoexposed me to, like my sister
exposed me to punk rock, like Ithink there's a video of me
singing Green Day, when I'm likeone, so nice to my siblings.

Speaker 3 (54:45):
That's so wonderful.

Speaker 4 (54:46):
It's like teaching you a language too.
That you can speak with others,even if they don't speak your
language.
Right you like you speak music,right you know yeah you speak
this band right?
Yeah, that's true.
Oh, I love that.
All right, let's keep us.
Let's keep us moving ahead.
You know we're talking about,like, all different aspects of
your life.
You've been in, you've beenhere.

(55:07):
I know this this experience isa ride.
Yeah, it's a ride.
I feel like we'll talk aboutthis later, but I feel like
after you're done with thisinterview, you sort of just let
it like I just went on like thiswhole life.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:20):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (55:21):
In a short period of time, exactly, but we're going
to.
We're going to kind of keepmoving through through your life
here.
So for your next song andprompt what is a song that when
you hear it, you are justinstantly transported to a
specific time or a place?

Speaker 1 (55:37):
So for this one I picked Flashing Lights by Kanye
West and this.
This was like 2007, 2008.
So it instantly takes me backto eighth grade, when I was
still in Pakistan.
Kanye was getting huge at thetime, you know, stronger had
just come out and it was justlike the year of Kanye for me.
So I'd listened to thatconstantly, like on the way to

(55:58):
school, after school.
So it just it reminds me ofeighth grade, which was also
very crazy time in my life,which we'll talk about in a
second.

Speaker 3 (56:09):
All right, let's take a listen and then we'll we'll
hear what was going on at thetime.

Speaker 1 (56:54):
Yeah, that instantly transported me back to Lahore,
pakistan, eighth grade.
That was, yeah, crazy time.
So I was still in Pakistan atthat point.
I was completely settled and itwas like it was a great year
for me.
In the beginning, you know, Iwas at the height of popularity.
People realized, okay, she's acool American girl, but she's
still cultured.

(57:15):
So I finally, like, establishedmyself.
I went to pretty small school.
It was about a hundred peopletotal, so everyone kind of knew
each other and you know I hadthe best friends, I was getting
really good grades, everythingwas just kind of perfect for the
first half of the year and then, you know, when things are

(57:35):
finally going well, of coursesomething has to happen.
So that turned out to be a verydark time for the country.
Just, political scene kind ofgot a little bit crazy.
So I remember I was in myeighth grade class, just about
to take an exam or something,and all of a sudden we hear like
the whole building shakes, itfeels like an earthquake and it

(57:58):
feels like someone or it soundedlike someone just slammed the
door really quick and then werealized that a bomb had just
gone off right across from ourschool.
So we're all just looking ateach other.
And then there instead of firedrills we had bomb drills.
So the bomb drill went off andthen we're all we just like run
outside and there was an embassyright next door to our school,

(58:19):
so we were kind of likecongregating there.
And then I looked to my leftand two more bombs went off,
like right in front of me.
It was across the street.
So you know, like what we saw?
We saw the smoke and everything.
So that was scary, you know.
And then flashing lights, so itkind of relates.
Yeah, it was a rough time.

Speaker 3 (58:40):
Yeah, I just had that connection too.

Speaker 1 (58:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (58:42):
Yeah, so that became a really difficult time.

Speaker 1 (58:46):
And then, same day that happened, I came home.
My brother was actuallyvisiting Pakistan too, and that
was the same day that ourgrandfather passed away.
He had been in the hospital fora few weeks, so that happened.
That happened five days later.
Our grandmother, from differentside, passed away to in the
same hospital, so it was justlike two weeks of darkness.

(59:08):
Yeah, it was.
It was crazy.

Speaker 3 (59:11):
Yeah, oh, I like how you said, like two other bombs
went off and they were close,but not real close, and you
could see them, but this andit's like, like, yeah, we're
still alive, but right, right,like you, know, as someone else
who's you know, had explosionsgo off around them.
It's, it's that thing.
The first time it happens, itdoesn't matter how close, it is

(59:34):
Right.
If you can be aware that anexplosion went off, that you can
see, that is yeah, yeah.
It rocks your world literallyand you know, figuratively for
sure, exactly how.
How was what after that day?
What was the next?
Like few weeks, like at school,what was?

Speaker 1 (59:57):
it was crazy that whole month was bad.
So this happened on a Tuesdayand I remember every Tuesday
like another one would go off,like it started to become a
pattern.
So we almost expected it atthat point, I think school
closed for a few days and in themidst of all of that we're like

(01:00:18):
doing planning two funeralsbecause of our grandparents and
it was just like a lot.
So I think the funeral stuffkind of helped me detach from
the bomb stuff, but then it wasstill happening, so it was a lot
yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:00:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
It's very chaotic and that whole terrorism period
that that went on for about ayear and that's actually why we
ultimately decided to move backto America.
We're like all right, we don'teven have grandparents anymore.
What is the point in being inthis country?
So we kind of peaced out afterthat and then came back to the
States.

Speaker 4 (01:00:52):
Yeah, I mean, we can't discount that like this.

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
That would be a lot for anybody Right, let alone an
eighth grader I was traumatizedand, like every time someone
would slam the door, I'd be like, oh my God, what was that?
If a balloon popped, I'd belike, oh my God, like I,
literally it's like PTSD, youknow, you're triggered Sure.
I was triggered so much by somany things and that went on for

(01:01:20):
years, even when I moved backto America and I heard like
there was an earthquake in 2010,like recently after I moved
back to America, and just thatshaking it took me back to the
bomb blast because it was alsothe room shaking when that
happened.
So, yeah, yeah, I felt theaftermath of that for a few
years.
For sure, yeah, I bet.

Speaker 4 (01:01:40):
So oh God.

Speaker 3 (01:01:42):
Oh, I was just going to say, and that's what can you
know?
Have just so much of thephysical effects of the PTSD.
It's not just the moment thatthe trauma happened, it's what
you do in response to that right, that you're on guard for the
next, you know few years orlonger, and that wears on your

(01:02:03):
body, right, and that's whereyou get you know the physical
effects of it and things, andlike, yeah, like Carolina said,
you know eighth grade, when youknow you're, your world is still
like, you have this optimismabout it, this, this illusion, I
guess you could say, of safety,right, and when that gets you

(01:02:24):
know rocked, it's, it's, it'shorrible, right.
I mean it's, it's what you know.
We have going on in the US herewith the school shootings,
right, it's not, it's not justwhether your school ever had one
or not, it's living under thisenvironment of knowing and
wondering and wondering is itgoing to be our school tomorrow?
And yeah, it's, it's, it'stough and so yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:48):
And that's so true.
You said being on guard andsuper alert, and that's exactly
what I did.
So I remember I stopped wearingheadphones for a while, even
when I was listening to music,just because I wanted to hear,
like, what is going on outside.
So that was one thing.
And again, even with the schoolshootings, like I've like I
lived in Chicago this past yearand I did not wear headphones

(01:03:09):
the whole time, just because I'mwalking outside and I want to
be alert, like who is walkingbehind me.
And yeah, you just become hypervigilant after going through
these situations.

Speaker 4 (01:03:20):
Yeah, and that's, I mean, that's Common advice for
for women as as just from agender perspective.
Needing to be on guard andbeing safe when you're out in
the world is like Either onlyhave one in or you know, because
you need to be aware of, ofyour surroundings.

Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
My dad actually got me Bose sunglasses, which I
think are really cool, so it'slike they're not in your ears.
Yeah, so then the music isn'tgoing in your ears.
You can still hear the outsideworld, but then you still have
your music.
So thanks, dad.

Speaker 3 (01:03:53):
Oh, I just have this Dude.
I'm not going to try and dothat.
Raza, just such a greatimpression, oh yeah.
But, just being like don'tworry, sarah, I got the product
for you.

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:04:03):
I got you.

Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
Pretty much.

Speaker 3 (01:04:07):
That's pretty spot on , oh this.
Do you mind oh?

Speaker 4 (01:04:13):
there you go.

Speaker 3 (01:04:14):
Yeah, do you mind if I ask do, have you ever talked
to anyone about the experience,like, have you ever done any
therapy for it or not, and if so, what was your experience with
that?
It's kind of the undertone ofwhat kind of started this
podcast with my experience inthat way, so I was just you know

(01:04:36):
curious.

Speaker 1 (01:04:37):
So I didn't do therapy per se, because in
Pakistan, especially at thattime, I don't think therapy was
even a thing.
It's also like mental health andall of that.
It's people don't talk about itin Pakistan and it's not talked
about enough, which I think isa huge problem in that country,
because now there are a lot ofpeople who are, you know,
committing and it's it's prettyrough.

(01:05:00):
So, unfortunately, like Ididn't really have a therapist
that I could have talked to atthe time, but what I did was I
did a lot of journaling.
I actually still have thisjournal, for every time one of
these incidents would happen, Iwould just write it down and I
like I got really into it.
Actually I turned into ascrapbook in a way, like every
time there was a news article, Iwould you know, cut it out, and

(01:05:21):
I have all those news, littleblogs in my journal.
So I would just a journal I'dwrite, and I wasn't much of a
talker at the time either, sofor me it was more therapeutic
just to write it out or type itout.

Speaker 3 (01:05:35):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's that's been my
experience with trying to seekhelp for things.
It's like there's all kinds ofdifferent things out there and
not everything works for thesame person in the same way, and
so it's just this thing of likeyeah, you just try whatever you
can.
In that sense, so what are yougoing to say, carolina or Raza?

(01:05:56):
You were going to say something.

Speaker 5 (01:05:58):
Yeah, I think one of the things that I've noticed in
the last few years and you knowwhen, when, when talking about
mental health as just in general, it almost seems like there is
help available, but the personexperiencing the trauma needs to

(01:06:18):
recognize what's going on andmake the connection between
experience and seeking help,because once you, once you and I
guess that the word for that isacknowledgement, right
Acknowledge it, ok, somethingreally terrible happened and I
can do something about it, whichis I can seek help, and then

(01:06:41):
it's like phase two is then youknow what is the help and what
is the specific diagnosis, etcetera, et cetera.
I hate to use this analogy, butit's almost like when you get
service connection right, it'sthe three step process.

Speaker 3 (01:06:54):
So for everybody.
Listening.
Service connection for veteransis when you have an injury or
illness or something that getsconnected to your military
service and thus VA will treatyou for it because it's
connected to your service.

Speaker 5 (01:07:09):
Right.
So, and it's in order to getservice connection.
It's there needs to be adiagnosed condition, there needs
to be a specific event thathappened during the time of the
veteran service, and then aprofessional has to provide a
what they call it, a nexusstatement.

(01:07:30):
Without that three step process, you know, you're not going to
be service connected.
And it's in the, in my mind,the civilian version of that is
is you know, just, we need tojust acknowledge that something
happened, there is helpavailable.
But that make that connectionbetween okay, something terrible

(01:07:52):
happened, now, how do I managethat?
How do I what?
What is it that's out there inthe manner of help that I can
seek, but a lot of folks justdon't recognize that, hey,
something really terriblehappened and they processed and
maybe go on about their liveswithout seeking help.
So I think that's reallyimportant here, and one of the
best things that I've seen inthe last few years by by just in

(01:08:14):
a manner of folks talking aboutmental health, is that they're
acknowledging, look, somethingterrible happened.
And if you'd, and if you'reable to do that and say, hey,
you know, something happened,then you can move to the next
step, which is okay, seek help,because I think help is
available.
I mean, there are physiciansthere and obviously there's

(01:08:37):
exceptions, but by and largehelp is available.
But you gotta acknowledge.
You gotta acknowledge thatsomething is wrong and then go
out there and then seek it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:45):
So no, that's a really good point, because I've
obviously I started goingthrough major things in life at
a very young age, but I didn'tstart, you know, accepting or
seeking help until maybe liketwo years ago, when I really
realized that, yeah, you know,this is actually a problem.
I feel like I was always thetype just to like push through

(01:09:05):
my feelings.
You know, I was quiet, I wouldjust push through all my
problems and until my physicalhealth started to catch up with
the mental health, I did notseek help at all.
It was I was like now my body'sreacting, so it's like I can't
even control it at this point.
I would get migraines and just,you know, muscle pain and all
these random physical symptomsand I was like, okay, you know

(01:09:27):
what?
I think I need to reallyreevaluate and actually maybe
talk to someone now.
So I actually realized this myfourth year of pharmacy school
and throughout residency, whichis probably the toughest time
I've ever had to go through.

Speaker 4 (01:09:41):
So yeah, I think, raza, the point you made of you
know that being that criticalstep of acknowledgement, and
then, sara, what you'redescribing as like that's so
hard to do, I think the waytrauma manifests in folks can
look so vastly different andsometimes you know it's either

(01:10:04):
like you're irritable or justyou just keep getting sick all
the time, or like you just can'tdrop those 10, 15 pounds, like
whatever it is that feels likethat's not the thing, is the
thing, like that's how it'sshowing up for you and you're
not like connecting the thingson top of our just super fast,
high-performing society whereyou you know what is that saying

(01:10:28):
?
I see it on shirts like pain isweakness leaving the body and
just like suck it up and likethat's like in everything it's
not necessarily just themilitary and so we tend to just
brush it off, we gaslightourselves, we're like that's not
a thing, you know.
I know there was a point intime when I was physically very
ill from other stuff and I hadhad pretty traumatic history of

(01:10:51):
my life losing my husband, somechildhood issues and whatever.
And I'm filling out a form atthe doctor Do you remember this,
david?
And they asked if you had everbeen through trauma and I'm
thinking of David, or I'mthinking of, like war torn
regions, and I'm like honey,have I ever been through trauma?
He looks at me and goes didn'tyour husband die?

(01:11:11):
And I was like well, yeah, but.
And he's like right, yes, yes,you have.

Speaker 3 (01:11:16):
And you had to leave Pal because of family members
being, you know just all yeah,yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:11:26):
And how much we just like tone it down because
someone's had it worse, or likewe don't want to complain or
like, for all intents andpurposes, our life looks pretty
good, we've got a roof, we makea nice living, like what is
there to complain about?
But like our body's kind offalling apart, right.
So I think, yeah, between yourpoint, Raza, and your points are

(01:11:48):
like that connection is justseems so like impossible to make
.

Speaker 1 (01:11:54):
Exactly.
And like, as a healthprofessional, like you always
feel the need to just always beon the move.
If I'm not working, I have tostudy or prepare for my shift
and do this, do that.
And then I kind of realized,like, if I'm not OK, how am I
going to help my patients?
You know, like I'm so burnt out.
I recognize that.
I'm like how am I going torecommend medications or verify

(01:12:15):
orders by the physicians if youknow I'm so tired and like
nauseous all the time and justlike not OK.
So I kind of had to take a stepback, you know, request a few
days off, which is totally fineto do, and just like get my shit
together pretty much.
And then you know you're able togo from there.

Speaker 3 (01:12:34):
Yeah, oh, I appreciate so much you sharing
that because, just, you know, weare different ages, our trauma
was different, you know.
But so much of what you'redescribing I I've like said word
for word before and I think I'mgoing to add a little something

(01:12:55):
to the acknowledgement point.
I think in my experience that iscoming out through this and my
own experience or whatever and Ireally want to, you know, for
anyone listening to kind of takethis into of like it's
acknowledgement of it, but notin the sense of you're in denial
, right, it's not like I've gotall these symptoms, I know it's
PTSD or I know it's trauma and Ijust don't want to do anything

(01:13:18):
about it.
It's really aboutacknowledgement through
understanding, right, that, hey,the fact that my legs are
always like hurting and I feellike I need to move them all the
time and I can't sit, still,that's related to trauma, that's
a trauma response, right, Imean it's not automatic, it
could be something else, right,but but like that is it.

(01:13:40):
And so, like this idea that andit can come years later, right,
because it's it's not just fromthe trauma itself, it can be
from the years after of what youdo to stay on guard and
everything in response to it.
And so, yeah, it's just, youknow, if something's not feeling
right one of us said it beforeif something's not feeling right
, yeah, you, you, you got to dosomething about it.

Speaker 1 (01:14:04):
Yeah, and kind of going off of that.
I was recently just hanging outwith friends at a restaurant
having really good time and weyou know the buzzer that when
you're waiting for your order.
So we're just minding our ownbusiness, that goes off.
And it instantly took me backto that cardiac arrest because
it sounded just like that pagerthat would go off at the

(01:14:24):
hospital.
I was like, oh my God, thatsounds just like that pager and
I just like I had like a minipanic attack, almost like my
heart started racing so and Ihad to like calm myself down.
So yeah, trauma is, it's alwaysthere somewhere and sneak up on
you anytime.

Speaker 3 (01:14:38):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 4 (01:14:40):
Right, and just the acknowledgement too, of how
trauma can show up in our job,in our personal lives.
You know, yeah, it can alwaysshow up.
So yeah, the pager thing.

Speaker 3 (01:14:56):
Yeah, and just also not not seeing it as a weakness,
right, because it's that thingof like I know, with me, when I
was, you know, struggling withit, I was working on my PhD and
stuff like that and, like youknow, things were going wrong.
I couldn't focus, I couldn'twrite a paper, I was just doing
garbage work, and so I was justlike, all right, next semester,

(01:15:17):
I just need to bear down evenmore Right, less, you know, I
can't go to that hockeytournament with my daughter.
I can't this, I just need tolike lock myself and do this.
And that was the exact oppositeof what I needed.
I needed to space right which Iwas fortunate enough to get in
this last you know year andchange to like breathe and look

(01:15:40):
into it and think about it andstuff.
And so it's not about musclingthrough, you know it very much
like that, the you know PTSD andthe trauma response.
Like you know you were sayingyou're walking around it's.
It has this feeling of likeyou're running a marathon when
everyone else is just walkingthrough the world, right, so
when everyone's just here,you're like exhausted just by

(01:16:01):
going about the world, and so,in the same way, if you got done
running a marathon and we'relike my legs are a little sore,
I think I need a massage and Ineed to take some time away.
Everyone would be like, yeah,it's the same with trauma, right
, it's the same with PTSD, it'sthe same with these physical
responses to it.
You're like, yeah, you needsome time, you need some healing
, you need to, you know, takecare of yourself, and so we just

(01:16:22):
need to all give ourselvespermission for that.
So, again, thank you forsharing.
I appreciate it.

Speaker 4 (01:16:27):
Yeah, thank you for sharing.
I think it's important to hearthese stories that have so many
similarities, but from differentwalks of life and different
experiences, because I think alot of civilians can sort of
pinpoint trauma to say, well,it's not combat.
And even even within veterans,a lot of PTSD isn't necessarily
combat related.

(01:16:47):
So you can always look atsomebody and say like well, it's
not that, but like hey, no, itcan happen to anybody.
So thank you for sharing thatwith our listeners.
As we round out to your lastsong, your sixth song, we've
gone through quite a ride of upsand downs, but it's important
to sometimes acknowledge thatthere are moments in life, in

(01:17:12):
this complicated up and downlife, that sometimes feel just
perfect.
And so we will end with yoursixth song and the prompt here
is what's?
A song that was a part of justa perfect moment where
everything just felt right foryou.

Speaker 1 (01:17:25):
So for this I picked, time Is Running Out by Muse,
and the actual perfect instancewas when I saw them live back in
2016.
This was one of my first notfirst concerts, but one of the
first concerts that I actuallyreally enjoyed, and this had
been Muse had been my favoriteband for prior decade.

(01:17:48):
So this was the first time Isaw them live and the second I
heard it I was like all right,my life is complete.

Speaker 3 (01:17:55):
Nice, let's take a listen.
I.
I.

Speaker 1 (01:18:46):
Love it.

Speaker 5 (01:18:49):
Yes, this is your best album, by the way.

Speaker 1 (01:18:51):
It was.
Yeah, the song takes me back tolike it's like a whole decade
time period, so like high schoolto college pretty much, and I
remember.
So I think, raza, youintroduced my sister or our
sister to muse and then sheintroduced me to it.
So it's kind of like a chainand again, I was at Pakistan or

(01:19:13):
in Pakistan at the time and wewould just we'd both be
listening to it constantly.
And I know one of the few songsfirst, songs that I downloaded
on my iPod.
I would listen to it like I'd Golike hide in the bathroom at
school, escaping teachers, justto listen to muse and it would
help me get through that, liketeachers who were calling on me
all the time.
I'm like you know what I got togo to bathroom like just bye,

(01:19:34):
and I just listened to muse toget me through that and then I
listen to it.
I remember when we were flyingback to the States, moving back,
and I started high school inVirginia.
You know that was like a kindof like a mean girls experience,
because I'm like the one from aforeign country and high school
this white high- school withall these rich people.
I'm like I don't know what I'mdoing, but just listen to muse.

(01:19:54):
Muse got me through it and thenagain, finally, I got to see
them live and I was like my god.
I've been waiting for thismoment since I was 11.
Oh I.

Speaker 4 (01:20:04):
Love that.
That's awesome.
I love muse like their music isjust I Don't know how to
describe it other than just like.

Speaker 1 (01:20:14):
I love the drummer too.
He kind of reminds me of whenmy brother would play the drums
in our living room and We'd getyelled at by the neighbors.

Speaker 5 (01:20:23):
Oh, I hated that.

Speaker 1 (01:20:25):
She was the worst.

Speaker 5 (01:20:26):
Oh, that neighbor, by the way, I used to listen to,
so we lived in the townhouse andwe had neighbors on either side
.
But, but, but the one inparticular.
In hindsight now, as an adult,I feel bad for her actually,
because she was totallylegitimate in her complaints,
because she had to deal with ahome of both home theater system

(01:20:48):
with explosions and likeTerminator 2 right and Then on
the level above, I'd wake up inthe morning like back in high
school and it's like you knowsix in the morning getting ready
for school.
It's like, and her Sandman Fromfrom my room and I think my room
was was, it was like a.
I would wall away so we getcomplaints about, and it's not

(01:21:14):
even like she could complain tothe parents because the parent
was creating a ruckus down.
Right right, your son is yeah,he's crap, you're doing it too,
he's the ringleader.

Speaker 4 (01:21:29):
So yeah, yeah and just Sam, and at 6 am Is
probably perfect, perfect.

Speaker 5 (01:21:35):
You know, getting you know while I'm putting on my
Metallica t-shirt.

Speaker 2 (01:21:45):
Fortunately there was no long drills at plantation
high school.
Thankfully we were a lot of ourinnocence was lost a few years
later.

Speaker 1 (01:21:54):
Yeah, my favorite part about finally being in a
single family home is that hecan blast his music.
We have garden speakers, dexspeakers and there's just again
always music playing.

Speaker 3 (01:22:07):
Oh my god, love it, love it.

Speaker 4 (01:22:10):
All right so we have.
We have completed your musicaljourney here.
How?

Speaker 1 (01:22:18):
does it.

Speaker 4 (01:22:19):
Yeah, how's it great To hear your life reflected
through six songs.

Speaker 1 (01:22:26):
I loved it.
That was definitely a huge tripdown memory lane and, yeah,
I've realized things that Ididn't even realize at the time.
I'm like, wow, that really didcause a lot of trauma.
That I'm like now unpacking 20years later.
So yeah, it's really nicetalking about it.
I don't usually talk aboutmyself this much, so mm-hmm yeah

(01:22:48):
yeah, and, and, and, and.

Speaker 3 (01:22:51):
You know I so love that because, like you know,
these discussions are so justlike Enjoyable like.
I don't know, you know.
I don't know what our listenersare thinking, but you know,
hopefully we, we, we havelisteners that are, I'm sure, if
they you know they're they'reenjoying it but like just being
part of this, these, these youknow there's two hours of just
chatting through this and, andyou know, hitting these, you

(01:23:14):
know key moments and stuff thatyou wouldn't normally bring up,
right.
Like if we just met, if, like,all of us went out to you know
dinner or something like thattogether, that might not come up
right, you, you might not bringit up or it might not come up
in in the way it did here wherewe were able to.
You know, we, we, we held spacefor it and talk through it and

(01:23:35):
things like that.
And so, yeah, I just again Iappreciate you for sharing those
stories and and being open.

Speaker 1 (01:23:45):
Yeah, yeah, definitely, and I love how like
relatable everyone can be, likewe all come from completely
different worlds but we're stillable to relate in some way,
like you know, like the bombblast story, and you know
veteran right and you knowSomeone just witnessing it from
afar.
So, again, and music is such agreat way of like bringing all
these people together- yeah, bythe way, I have to say yeah, I

(01:24:07):
mean to that point specifically.

Speaker 5 (01:24:09):
It's it's a little, it's definitely a little jarring
for me, but in a good way again, as as someone like I've known
Dave since high school and thenobviously I've known you for
actually Almost exactly the sameamount of time, that's true.

Speaker 1 (01:24:25):
That's funny the same exact mr Carbone's class the
year that you were born 1994.

Speaker 5 (01:24:28):
Oh my goodness, so yeah, that's.
It was all leading towards thismoment right here, Full circle
moment.

Speaker 1 (01:24:37):
Yeah, but but but no, I yeah it's.

Speaker 5 (01:24:38):
It's definitely been an interesting chat for me to
hear, you know, almost like twosides of like viewing the same
or or the same transaction, Notthe same exact event, but the
same set of events andcircumstances, but but knowing
them from the mind, from the,from the perspective of two

(01:25:00):
different witnesses.
And it's yeah this is.
This is definitely beeninteresting for me as well.
Yeah, just fun.

Speaker 1 (01:25:10):
All right, so.

Speaker 5 (01:25:12):
Keeping things you know moving right along.
At the end of our session, weusually have what we call our
lives and we usually have whatwe call our lightning round.
Okay, and the lightning roundis basically it's about your
your first, your last and yourbest or favorite concert
experience.
So take it away.

Speaker 1 (01:25:34):
Okay, so first concert I remember was in
Pakistan, 2003.
It was the band Janoon, whichwas probably one of the most
Famous bands there.
They're, I guess, rock band andyeah, I just remember going to
that and I think I made sure wecalled you because you were
you're the one who told me aboutthat before we even moved there

(01:25:56):
.
Like it, you know, this is oneof the bands.
Yeah, you did, you're like.
Yeah you're like there's a musicscene there too.
So this was one of my favoritebands growing up and, yeah, I
just remember you told me aboutit and I actually went to that
concert that same year that wemoved there.
So it was pretty cool, yeah.
So so first concert and thenlast Actually saw a green day

(01:26:19):
for the second time, like abouta month ago, which it's always a
good time.

Speaker 3 (01:26:23):
Yeah, was it?
Was it just?
Was it just green day, or wasit part of a festival?

Speaker 1 (01:26:28):
It was part of a mini tour.
It was like green day one dayand then Google doll, not Google
dolls food fighters the nextday.
I went to the green day day and, yeah, they're always good.
I saw them, I think, in 2017,before that, and that was
probably one of my favoriteconcerts.
I went with my sister, who wasthe one who got me into green
day, so Nice, nice and then bestconcert.

(01:26:50):
For this I actually chose systemof a down because my sister and
I we kind of went as a jokelike I thought I only knew you
know like maybe five or sixsongs.
We ended up knowing everysingle song they played.
We were singing.
I think I lost my voice thenext day.
It was crazy.
We were thinking about ourbrother the whole time.
I wish you were at that concertbecause we were just thinking

(01:27:10):
about you the whole time.
So that was hilarious andamazing at the same time.
They were actually really goodlive yes.

Speaker 5 (01:27:19):
That talk about full circle.
You started with system of downas well.

Speaker 3 (01:27:22):
There we go, there we go.
First answer system of down.
Last answer system of down.

Speaker 4 (01:27:29):
To.
There's something I know when Igo to a concert and I don't
know the set list, You're like,oh it's gonna be something.
I know it's gonna be like abunch of songs.
I don't know and like it givesme anxiety and there's like
exactly, it is like the mostepic Night when, like you know,
every song on the set listExactly like we went in, there
was again.

Speaker 1 (01:27:46):
It was as a joke, I think it was a free concert that
my sister got and we're likethey're probably gonna play this
new shit that we don't know.
And then you know, we ended upknowing everything was great, oh
.

Speaker 4 (01:27:57):
That's awesome.
I love that for you.
All right, sarah.
So you know, in the, in the fewminutes we have left, tell us
what you've got going on thatfolks might be interested in, or
if your story really reallyreally Resonates with folks, how
, how they can reach out andcontact you.

Speaker 1 (01:28:15):
Yeah, definitely.
So one of the biggest things Ihave going on right now that I
recently started is I started asmall business when I basically
make study guides for eitheraspiring pharmacists or any
health professional really morepracticing.
So they're like kind ofone-page little cheat sheets.
That I developed and I kind ofstarted it.

(01:28:38):
We know, when I was in school II struggled a little bit
studying, you know, massivetextbooks, about 2000 page
textbooks.
I'm like this is reallyoverwhelming.
I can't retain anything thisway.
So I started making just onepage sheets where it's like okay
, this is everything you need toknow for the exam, memorize
this, practice it, discuss itwith friends and you'll do fine.

(01:28:59):
And then slowly the wordsstarted spreading to my
classmates.
They started using my studyguides to pass exams and they
would actually pass and they'relike you know what?
You should do something withthis.
So I started putting them onEtsy.
My Etsy it's pharmacy guides,dot Etsy comm and I now have
like an ultimate guide.
That's basically four years ofpharmacy school in one guide.

(01:29:20):
I have disease state bundles,so like a psych bundle, a gastro
bundle, all of that and thenjust one page guides if you need
it.
And yeah, yeah very intopharmacy and you know,
influencing people and I alsohave a tick talk called at
pharmacy talks to Oks, where Ikind of showcase a day in the

(01:29:44):
life of a pharmacist or day inthe life of a resident.
I do little.
You know.
Educational posts Me just likecounting metformin.
I'm like this is metformin,it's for diabetes, these are the
side effects.
So like little clips like that,and then I also use it to
promote my Etsy.
So it's kind of what I gotgoing on in a nutshell.

Speaker 3 (01:30:04):
Nice.

Speaker 1 (01:30:04):
That's awesome.

Speaker 3 (01:30:05):
You are a pharmacy student out there who is
Drowning right now and not surehow they're gonna make it
through.
Go check it out.
Get check out the Etsy store.
Say it one more time what is it?

Speaker 1 (01:30:18):
pharmacy guides at or dot Etsy comm.

Speaker 3 (01:30:24):
And we'll put the links.
Yeah, and we'll put those linksin the show notes for people
too, and your, your, yourtick-tock and everything like
that perfect.
Right, awesome, all right,sarah, thank you so much for for
being our guest today.
We thoroughly enjoyed theconversation and enjoyed your

(01:30:46):
openness, and it's just beenreally great, so thank you for
that Everyone having me oh.
Yeah, totally, totally Everybodyout there.
Make sure you know, like andsubscribe, share the word if you
like what you hear.
You know, if you know someonewho could kind of maybe benefit

(01:31:10):
from some of these conversationsright and you know could could
use you hearing some of this,you know, let them know and we
will see you next time.
On a life in six songs.

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Ep. 7 - Notes of Hope: Change, Trauma, and the Family Bonds of Music

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep. 7 - Notes of Hope: Change, Trauma, and the Family Bonds of Music