Ep. 8 - From ‘Thunder Jeep’ to Turning the Page: A Story of Determination, Overcoming, and Optimism - A Life in Six Songs

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So I was always singing and dancing and they
called me tiny dancer because Icame out of there like not
running out of my nose, tearspouring out of my eyes, can't
breathe and you're flapping anda few seconds later I'm like
holy bullshit, time dance.
And then that name stuck withme.

Speaker 3 (00:59):
Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of a
life in six songs.
I'm your host, david Rees, andI'm joined by my two co-hosts,
carolina and Raza.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Hey, hey.

Speaker 3 (01:10):
Hi there For any of you that are new to the podcast.
Every week we embark on an epicadventure to find the songs
that are stuck to us likeaudible tattoos, that tell the
story of who we are and wherewe've been, to help us figure
out where we want to go.
It's a life story told throughsix songs.
Let's go have a listen together.

(01:31):
Our guest today is Don MichaelBarber.
Michael joined the army as aCanon crew member, a 13 Bravo,
in 1995 and retired as a JAGJudge Advocate General in 2015.
From 2015 to 2018, he worked asan assistant district attorney

(01:51):
in Dallas, texas.
In 2018, he began VeteransLegal Foundation, which is a
non-profit devoted to servingthose who have served in the
military and their familymembers.
Ever since then, he has beenassisting veterans with a
multitude of legal issues.
Don Michael, welcome to a lifein six songs.

(02:11):
Great, great, yeah.
We're excited to have you andexcited to get into our
conversation, get into your sixsongs.
So, to start us off, before weget into those specific songs,
just to get us warmed up and getour listeners to you know, get

(02:32):
a little, a little bit ofbackground on you, what you know
.
Briefly, what role does musicplay in your life, or how do you
see music fitting into yourlife?

Speaker 1 (02:44):
Honestly, music has been a large part of my life.
As a child I grew up aroundmusic lovers and music lovers
that appreciated music, thelyricism, the, the musical
nature of it, and over time myappreciation grew and I found

(03:10):
that it became a verytherapeutic part of my life
because many of the songs that Iwould I'd be able to identify
with.
That would kind of be tellingmy story from the artist's
perspective.
It resonated with me andbecause of that I was able to
get through many times or joystimes, not even down times, but

(03:34):
good times.

Speaker 3 (03:36):
Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 4 (03:39):
Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
I find, as we do more of theseepisodes, it's an interesting
connection with guests.
How many have parents that,like, had a house full of music
or exposed you at a young agesuch that it starts to play this
like just very influential role?

(04:02):
It not an influential, like itit dictates what you do or not,
but like this, comfort this likepart of your home feeling.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
Absolutely, I agree 100%.
And my parents had those woodencrates just full of albums, you
know, and so I would listen.
They had, like Red Fox, livestand up, and just a litany of
music and and the genres were sovast that my stepdad was heavy

(04:35):
metal, my aunt was country, myother aunt was like the bangles,
and just a litany of differentmusic and I grew to appreciate
many genres of music throughthem being introduced and then
taking it further.

Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yeah that's another yeah, and that's another thing
we've seen.
Most of the people we've had onhave said the very same thing
too, and I know the three of usas hosts are the same way of
like.
We have our genres that arekind of our more go to, but we
had this appreciation of morethan just the one we focus on

(05:19):
and so yeah, yeah, it's almostlike you've you've got, like you
were just saying you knowyou've got like your parents.

Speaker 5 (05:28):
Then there's aunts and aunties and uncles and
cousins and it's like you know,like you mentioned, you know
someone's into metal, someone'sinto country, someone's into hip
hop, someone's doing the 80ssynth wave thing, and you're
you're.
You know you're as a kid,you're just absorbing all of
these little nuggets of of musicand entertainment and stuff

(05:52):
like that.
And then as an adult yourealize, oh, wow, you know that
all of those little bits andpieces come together and kind of
you know shape, your, your,your musical, you know
soundtrack and and then, yeah,and then obviously you know you
you pick and choose out of there.
You know what you gravitatetoward and stuff that you like
and stuff, stuff that just is.

(06:12):
You know it was bad then andit's bad now too it is what it
is.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
Yeah, I don't want and I want to piggyback on that
a little bit and say not to agemyself, but I was a young child
when MTV became a thing and so Iwas just fascinated.
You know, I was a latchkey kida lot of the times, and anytime
I could watch you know, look atthem, yo-yo's and all that music

(06:42):
I just, I loved it just beingable to watch the artists play
and not have to be live.
Some artists are much betterlive than others, but I grew up
on MTV essentially, yeah 100%.

Speaker 4 (07:02):
So did I like yeah, yeah, 100%.

Speaker 1 (07:06):
So I think let's, let's kick off your story here
and we'll, we'll, we'll kind ofstart at the top with with your
first, your first song and yourprompt, for that is what's your
earliest music memory 30 deedsdone dirt cheap by acdc that's a
very good, very, very young,still in a car seat, still

(07:30):
sitting in high chairs, typestuff, and it drove my mother
crazy because for a long time Iwould say thunder jeep, thunder
jeep, and she said she would gohysterical asking what are you

(07:50):
saying?
And I'm like thunder jeep.
And then all of a sudden oneday I'm sitting the back of the
car, not in a car seat, becauseit was as 70s, early 80s and acd
comes on, dirty deeds done,dirt cheap.
And I'm back, there's done dirt, jeep, done dirt.

(08:12):
And the epiphany came and shewas like I feel so bad now let's
uh, let's take a quick listentime.

Speaker 4 (08:55):
I won't.
I'll never hear the song thesame again but never heard it in
the other way.

Speaker 1 (09:01):
Yeah, I was like I swear to this day it's thunder
jeep.
I think we should go with it.

Speaker 3 (09:07):
That's what it is, totally when I was um, when I
was getting the songs ready, uh,for, for the episode um, and I
pulled it up and I listened youknow, I'm listening to it
probably three or four timesthrough to find the clip I want.
And yeah, every time I heardthunder, jeep, and then I was
like I, I can't hear it, notthat way now.

Speaker 1 (09:28):
I am sorry for tainting the pool, yeah yep, and
all the listeners to you.

Speaker 3 (09:34):
Now we're all, we're all tainted, and that bonds us.
Now we are all bound together afamily of thunder jeeps yes,
yes, um you can't undo that noright that's right.

Speaker 4 (09:47):
That's right.
Um, how does it feel listeningto it again?

Speaker 1 (09:51):
you know, uh, it, it, you know.
It evokes a lot of memoriesbecause I mean these songs I
would hear over and over again.
It was playing on the radio.
Um, I spent a lot of time inbars as a child, uh, and clubs,

(10:12):
so you know, during closing timeI had the run of the jukebox
and the pool table.
It was like being in that moviewith a rich kid that has
everything he wants.
I just want that pool table andthat jukebox and time alone.

(10:32):
It was.
It was fantastic.
And that song particularly hasmeaning to me because as I grew
older and continued to listen toit, the meaning behind it
struck a chord which we may getinto a little bit later sure,
sure, yeah, we can what's the uh, what's the consulting, put a

(10:56):
pin in that?

Speaker 2 (10:57):
yeah, no, I mean.

Speaker 1 (10:59):
I'm.
I'm a.
I'm an open book.
So, frankly, you know that's asong about like lewd and
lascivious acts and paying forthem.
My mother happened to be awoman of the night and I know
that's what it was about yeah,it's about I uh for my what are
we called one of the deeds?

(11:20):
Yeah, one of the deeds dunderchief, and you know that is
reminiscent because I was aby-product of that worth, which
I'm extremely thankful for.
I don't.

Speaker 4 (11:34):
I don't feel bad about it, otherwise I wouldn't
be around yeah, yeah, no, that'strue, and it's interesting how,
like a song that might havefelt just like fun and carefree
can, its meaning, can changeover time, like still super
important to you, but itsmeaning can shift and transit
transition yeah, it's the wayyou know the tempo.

Speaker 1 (11:56):
It's like the way they're putting it together.
It's an upbeat song, but,subversively, listening and
paying attention to the lyrics,you're like, oh, this is real
talk, this is real life yeah donmichael, I have to ask, so you
know.

Speaker 5 (12:12):
So, so this song is, you know, we're, we're attaching
it here right now.
We're listening to it, to to itas your earliest memory, right,
this is something that you knowthunder jeep, and you heard the
song, and it was the music thatwas kind of driving all this
stuff.
So I'm really curious at somepoint you must have made this

(12:33):
other connection with thelyrical content as well, and I'm
guessing that probably camemuch later on, like as an adult,
and and so can you maybe talkabout that like light bulb, like
holy crap moment, or was thereone, or there was, you know, my,
my father.

Speaker 1 (12:55):
The night he was released from prison for murder.
He happened to be in anorganization, and one of the
things that those fellows wouldget to do when they came out of
prison they would have a litanyof old ladies that just are

(13:18):
throwing themselves at them, andmy mother was the one with the
lucky seat.
She happened to be an old ladyin this organization for years
and years, and so he was therewhen I was born.
He brought his girlfriend tothe hospital, and so he was in

(13:38):
and out of my life tangentially.
But whenever I was five yearsold, the doorman at the
burlesque club that my momdanced at uh became her
boyfriend and my stepfather, andhe's still with her to this day
and he's the best man I've evermet in my life, and I I owe a

(14:01):
lot of my characteristics to him.
He's not my blood father, andthere are three half brothers.
One's nine years younger thanme, another one was, you know,
12 years younger, and then I'vegot a 27 year old brother that
lives here in Austin.
And so whenever I was nineyears old, I was visiting my

(14:26):
father, who lived in CorpusChristi at the time, and I would
do odd jobs with him and he'slike you want to know how I met
your mom.
I'm like, yeah, sure, he's likeI woke up and she was riding me
and I was like I need a littlemore explanation, right wait,

(14:47):
how old were you?
again.
Yeah, nine, oh wow, yeah,that's a lot to drop on a nine
year old well, you know it was aweird family dynamic.
Uh, you know there wasn't a lotof stability in my life.
Uh, I moved to four differentelementary schools.

(15:08):
I was displaced.
I didn't always live with mymother or my father.
I would live with relativesthat took good care of me, um,
but there was a lot of justdisplacement and it made me
thrive to who I am today.

(15:28):
I joined the military becausethat's the lifestyle, where you
shoot, move and communicate.
Right, you, you're at one dutystation and you PC on PCS on to
the next.
You're always on temporary duty.
It, it consumes you, but in agood way, if you enjoy traveling
, you know, and and so at nine Iwas told that little tidbit,

(15:52):
and after I'd come back fromthat summer of working with my
dad, um, I just nonchalantlyasked my mom so how did you and
my dad meet?
And she kind of chuckled and Iknew, right, then I didn't go
any further.
You know I didn't want details.
I was like that's enough, youdon't need details, yeah, and

(16:13):
then I would say it was probablyaround 15 or 16 that I put that
song together with thelifestyle that I was kind of
raised in.
It wasn't just my mom, butthere were like three aunts who
were women of the night.

Speaker 4 (16:32):
So you can imagine where that might stem from sure,
sure, um, yeah, I think Ireally a tiny bit.
I had a lot of transitions inmy life.
I moved a lot, I had a.
You know, my mom was 17 when Iwas born and there was my

(16:53):
stepdad.
Was was also like in crime, Idon't even know how to put it,
but he was like a con artist andstuff.
Um, and it's interesting tohear, like the transitions that
you say, very matter of factly,that I do too in ways, because
that's just my life uh it's I.
I love your like candor about itbecause it resonates I'm the
same way I grew up in it.

Speaker 1 (17:14):
So it's never been shameful for me.
I don't brag about it.
But if anybody asks me, I meanI share it because it's made me
who I am good, better anddifferent.
I am the person I am.
I'm happy with the person I am,um, and how to become different
circumstances maybe I might beentitled or wouldn't be able to

(17:38):
see from various perspectives.
So I'm grateful for that.

Speaker 5 (17:43):
Yeah yeah yeah, I always have that thing about you
know, adversity and and and andand like tough, tough
experiences, right, um, and theyhave a way of shaping, shaping
us, and and different peopleobviously experience adversity
different ways and I think youknow, back in back in the old

(18:04):
days, you know some of it had todo with sort of you know, male
toughness and things like that.
But I think adversity, whetheryou're male, female, um, things
that are difficult, difficulty,tends to shape people, um, you
know good, bad, worse, you knowwho's to say, but, but, uh, but
yeah, I mean, this is, this isyour experience, and you know,

(18:24):
obviously you've come, um, youuse that and and you and, and,
then you've come, you know, comefar, um, and you know you've,
you've, you've built yourselfinto the professional that you
are, and you know personally aswell, and I'm sure we'll get
into some of that stuff here.
But, yeah, no, adversity has afunny way of uh, of shaping us
as humans.

Speaker 3 (18:44):
I agree, but 100 yeah yeah, and I just I also to
reiterate everybody else I Iappreciate your candor and and
sharing uh, your, your story sofar and and what we're gonna get
into.
But uh, I think it also, as, asyou were you know saying the

(19:05):
stories, to saying thesespecifics of you know how you
were raised, where you were andwho you were with and stuff,
it's that thing of like you knowpeople might want to look at
someone's story and go, you know, oh, that's, you know, I'm so
sorry, you know, and it's likehearing you tell it.
It's like there's a, a, a, oh,what's the word I'm looking for

(19:28):
kind of like a, a, you knowpretension, you know a, a lofty
I'm better holier than thou viewwhen people kind of judge other
people's lives.
Right, this idea of likethere's this proper type of
upbringing.
If you don't have that, it'ssomehow some you're damaged or
you're damaged, or you knowthings like, things like that,

(19:51):
and it's like, no, like it'sjust, it's just your upbringing,
right, it's just yourexperience and that's, it is
what you make it yeah and comingup as a child, I kind of load
to my parents not my stepdad andI harbored this hatred so I

(20:12):
said I'm gonna do everythingdifferent.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
My mom got a g ed while in prison, you know.
Uh, dad, you know, was draftedto Vietnam, came back bitter
with the government and, youknow, lived his life off the
books, his entire life.
And everybody in my familyalmost has been to prison.

(20:35):
I have two siblings that passeda way that were younger than me
.
Um, they latched on to the badstuff I tried to avoid and use
those as guideposts to be like.
You know, these are my left andright limits.
I've got to have that integrity, I've got to be a better person

(20:57):
.
But, like I said, I had anexample of somebody with, like,
strong work ethics, uh, goodmoral character.
Um, did he do bad things?
I think we all do from time totime, but you know he owned them
and he said everything that youdo you're accountable for, and

(21:21):
and so, yeah, I and I I don'tpresume to know anybody or their
station life, whether they'rewell to do.
They came with Silver Spoon,whatever it is.
That doesn't mean they had abetter life than me, because I
was just mentally focused ongetting out of that.

(21:45):
So when I was 12 years old I waslike circling in the
classifieds jobs that I wantedto do, that had salaries that I
would like and what would ittake to get those jobs.
And I I wasn't going to get anyscholarships, I was in the work
program.
I would leave high school halfa day and go to work and I was

(22:07):
paying bills, sometimes lived inmy car.
You know there was a lot of,there was a lot of dissension
there, but that was my drivingforce and I've found forgiveness
and grace for my mother because, again, I don't presume to know

(22:27):
anybody and I'm fairly certainthat the past she chose was
driven a lot by her experiencesthat I wasn't there for and I
know nothing about.

Speaker 3 (22:37):
Right yeah.

Speaker 4 (22:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (22:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (22:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (22:43):
I'll move us ahead a little bit.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
Yeah, it's all related.
No, no, no, no, good stuff yeah.

Speaker 3 (22:51):
No, I had more questions, but I know we've got
more songs to get through.
We do, we do.

Speaker 4 (22:56):
I'm also.
I'm also.
My side hustle is Timekeeper.
But no, but.
But it's all related, right?
It's?
It's, it's the different partsof your life, so we'll keep like
moving through your life.

Speaker 1 (23:06):
Yes.

Speaker 4 (23:07):
Yeah, yeah.
The cards, the cards your dealtcontinue to be dealt right
Correct.
So for for your next song.
Prompt here is is a song thatyou associate with a weighty
trans transition in your life.
And what was that?

Speaker 1 (23:25):
That was Two of America's Most Wanted by one of
my favorite rappers, tupacShakur and Snoop Dogg, who I
have seen in concert, but notTupac but, as you all probably
know, his alleged killer.
Yes, tupac has recently beenapprehended and is now charged

(23:47):
with his murder and, from what Iunderstand, he admitted that he
accepted a million dollars todo the deed and yeah, but that's
like 27 years in the making nowand that's that's in the news.
But I love Tupac, the poeticnature of it and just like the

(24:09):
streets I was really into.
You know all sorts of music,but rap was certainly one of
them.

Speaker 3 (24:15):
Nice.
Listen to it, and then we canhear more of the context on the
other side.

Speaker 1 (24:55):
I love that song.
I mean, there's so many Tupacsongs that I love, but this song
in particular.
It was my transition, mybreaking free of the chains.
You know, I'm no longerbeholden to my mother and I
joined the army, graduated highschool year early to do so, you

(25:20):
know, put myself through summerschool, I was driven to get away
and the you know, doing yourjob every day worked so hard to
your hair turns great.
That became my motto.
I wanted to retire.
At a young age I was like howcan I do that?
How can I amass some wealth?
And the military was like oh,you can pay for my school, you

(25:45):
can retire me at 38, which I did, and they're paying me for the
rest of my life and medicalbenefits.
You know, that's about as closeto baller as I can get.

Speaker 4 (26:01):
I love it.

Speaker 3 (26:02):
Nice.

Speaker 5 (26:03):
Nice, michael.
How did you know that that wasyour, that that was the ticket?
You were trying to get away?
You were trying to make a wayfor yourself, was it?
Was it a situation that youthought that, okay, cool, you
know, I'll do whatever it takesto get away?

(26:24):
Or were you like, no, no, no,I'm only going to do these.
You know one or two options.
College is one of them, ormilitary is one of them.
Or was it?
Were you pursuing like a lawcareer back then?
Did that come later?
How was?
Tell me a little bit about yoursort of how this ties in with
your sort of educational journey.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
So I've always been a far in the future planner.
You know, like I said, 12 yearsold I'm circling the
classifieds and younger thanthat I called into a radio
station to be a disc jockey forthem.
I was like 10 years old-ish, 11.
I call in and and they put iton the air because it was so

(27:09):
funny to them.
But I was serious, I was likemaybe I don't want a job right
now, but I want to know what ittakes and I never close a door
that's available to me.
So I didn't decide to go to lawschool until probably four

(27:30):
months before I did so.
So I had to take the LSAT realquick and it's because Black
Hawk down had just come out andI commissioned into the army to
be an aviator and I was likelongevity, I want to live a long

(27:50):
life and these birds aregetting shot out of the sky with
surface to air missiles, somaybe I can do something a
little safer.
So I was commissioned throughthe ROTC program.
They paid for all of myschooling, food, my lodging, and
commissioned me back in 2003.

(28:12):
And I asked for an ad delay.
Very few in the nation got it,but I was fortunately so high up
on the OMLS because I wasfocused and driven and I didn't
want to close any doors, and thebetter you do, the more doors
that are going to be open.
So I really lucked out andanybody who knows me will tell

(28:34):
you I'm the luckiest person theyknow.
My mom will say it, all myfriends will say it, my wife
will say it, my kids, they bothsay it.
I have been very fortunategiven the circumstances, but I
take that as a nod to me,finding opportunity where

(28:59):
opportunity isn't necessarilypresenting itself, and thinking,
like you know, college wasn'tmy option, it was go to the army
.
That's the quickest way to getout and become independent.
And so I did that.
And what?
Each day it's something new andreenlistment time comes up.

(29:20):
I was a paratrooper.
I was there assault.
I really loved combat arms.
I put it in for ranger schoolLike, yeah, we need somebody
30,000 meters behind thefrontlines to have a ranger
attack.
Yeah, no.
And I was like, damn, I shouldhave become an infantry guy.
But you know, everythinghappens for a reason, I believe,

(29:45):
and so I was combat arms justbecause of the short-term
enlistment of it.
And you know, if I joined theaviation branches and enlisted,
it's a minimum six-year contract.
If you join the infantry, it'sa two-and-a-half-year contract.
You know it's a sliding scale.
These ones will give youbonuses, these ones will not,

(30:06):
and then you just evaluate thatbased upon your circumstance.
I wasn't concerned aboutbonuses, but I was concerned
about making my way up.

Speaker 4 (30:15):
Yeah, and surviving it right.

Speaker 1 (30:18):
Yeah, yeah, succeeding to whatever degree I
thought was successful at thetime, which has changed over the
years.

Speaker 4 (30:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (30:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And that's you know.
It's a thing about the military, like you said that.
You know I talk a lot about theproblems of the military and
issues with the military andthings like that.
But one of the positives, whichI think all of us that serve,
are we understand?

(30:49):
I'm going to talk all this shit, but also, hey, there was these
good things and don't you sayanything about it, right?

Speaker 1 (30:55):
No.

Speaker 3 (30:56):
If you weren't there.
No, we talk about it.

Speaker 1 (30:57):
Your entirety, your opinion, but mine is, you know,
great, you know, I think, gaveme an opportunity that I
otherwise might not have had.

Speaker 3 (31:07):
Yeah and yeah.
And the thing I was going tosay of what you highlighted is
that there's all of these pointsin the military where you know
you finish your first enlistmentand it's time to reenlist and
it's sort of like, okay, what doI want to do?
I can leave.
They want me to stay, and so Ikind of am holding some cards
here in a sense, or whatever youknow, and especially if you're

(31:29):
kicking ass when you're there,you have some sway and some
things Collateral.

Speaker 1 (31:36):
Yeah, things have changed since MEPPS Day 1.

Speaker 3 (31:39):
Right.

Speaker 1 (31:39):
Okay, I can reclass, I can become a forward observer,
I can go to a non-combat branchor I can get out, utilize my GI
bill, which I ultimately did.
I stayed in the reserves andthen I got an RTC scholarship
and they were still paying methe GI bill money.

(32:00):
So I had rent money, I had foodmoney.
I didn't have to work throughschool away.
A lot of the people had to, andI wouldn't necessarily say that
I earned it, but they gave itto me so I used it.
A lot of people don't.

Speaker 3 (32:17):
Yeah, what I also find interesting with your story
there and saying how yougraduated early and you had this
plan at 12, you're mapping itout and you're like what's it
going to be?
And it's like military, that'sit.
I'm going to graduate early soI can go.
And what's interesting aboutthat in ways is like you had

(32:38):
this sort of military mindset,almost right, this
mission-focused mindset, andyou're like that's the place I
need to be.
And it's not usually the storywe hear at 17.
It's usually the person who'sfucking up and getting in all
kinds of trouble and whatever,and it's like this is the last
ditch effort to straighten theirlife out, or something like

(33:00):
that.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
Throw the war and go to jail.

Speaker 3 (33:04):
That's right.
That is the saying, and we singthem as we are running.
We say that so, yeah, I foundthat so interesting at 17.
You are like this is how I am,this is what I need, this is
where I want to go.
I need someone who's on thesame page as me.

(33:24):
It's these people over here.
They're kicking ass and they'regoing to set me up.

Speaker 1 (33:28):
And I had no idea.
But also to provide context alittle bit on my stepdad.
Before he was a bouncer at aclub, he was a scrolled ranger
in one of the bats, one of thebattalions which to be a ranger.
That's, you know, crim to lacrème, different color, beret,
and just a badass to everybodyon the base where ranger

(33:53):
battalions are stationed.
So he went through rangerschool, had the tab and was
scrolled into a battalion.
There's three of them, and sothe crim to la crème go to the
ranger battalions, because thoseare the real door kickers and
the true I mean not to sayeverybody in the military

(34:17):
supports, but those are the guysI don't want to be on the
battlefield.

Speaker 3 (34:22):
Yeah, I have ultimate respect for them, you know and
so, and so he was able to steeryou or guide you in it.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
I was enthralled because you know he met my mom
shortly after coming off ofactive duty and he brought a lot
of munitions that he shouldn'thave and you know it was and he
would show me pictures from thebarracks and I'm like, oh my
goodness, this looks so cool andyou know he was proud of it,

(35:00):
and while my father was not, hestill, like, wore the Vietnam
that had with medals.
You know, just had thisdisillusionment toward the
government.
You know, yeah, so yeah, that's,I'd say that's where the
military kind of becameingrained in me and then

(35:21):
festered.
While I was looking at avenuesto better my life, I saw that as
a viable option.
He was only down side, wasgetting out and meeting my mom,
I think, but he's stuck aroundall these years, wouldn't say
he's the happiest guy, but Ilove him to death and I tell him
every year that he's the bestguy I've ever met.

Speaker 5 (35:45):
I just love the fact this is.
This is kind of going backwardsa little bit, and I think, dave,
you were saying something tothis, something about this,
which is that, you know, forsome folks, military is like
that last resort, but for some,for some other people and you
know, for you, for Don Michael,it was like no, no, that is it,

(36:05):
that is the reason, or that'sthe thing that is going to get
me to the same, to the nextlevel.
I just love that approach, Ilove looking at it.
It's literally like thathourglass.
You know, glasses have emptyglasses, have full thing.
It's the same glass.
You're either looking at it aslike a problem or you're looking

(36:25):
at it as a solution and it'slike, okay, you know, and it's
literally just comes down toperception, because I'm sure you
know, you join the militaryjust like anyone else would and
you went through the same stuff,but just you went in there with
a mindset of using it as astepping stone toward something
else, as opposed to just like,oh God, I got to do this crap so

(36:47):
I don't go to jail, you know.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
Yeah, it's, we called it embracing the suck.
If you embrace the suck, I lovethat yes.
You know I wanted to go tosoldier of the month boards.
I wanted to go to soldier ofthe court, soldier of the year.
I was in combat arms but I wasdriving the commander and the

(37:10):
first sergeant.
So in the field exercises Imean you're kind of living the
high life, you have the best ofeverything at a low rank and you
have the biggest barracks roombecause you have a lot of kind
of governing power.
They put me in the pack roomwhile I was a driver.

(37:31):
So I'm like doing the PT test,I'm doing the filing, I'm
checking people schooling.
So when options would becomeavailable, I was like I want to
do the 55 mile perimeterchallenge at Fort Bragg, I want
to jump out of airplanes, and soI would jump on it.
And it was a stepping stone forsome people.

(37:51):
They look at it as an onlything that they can do, option
and they're just going toplacate themselves.
And you know, there's a mottoyou can be dumb or you can be
lazy, but you can't be both inthe military.
So you can get by and a 20 yearcareer, I'm living proof and

(38:17):
retire.
It was never my intention tostay in the military but driving
the commander he was likethere's more in store for you.
You should become an officer.
I'd never thought about that.
He wrote a letter ofcommendation for me which I
submitted to the ROTC and thatpaved the way for.

(38:38):
I was like, okay, I can maketriple the money.
Logistical work, that soundscool.
It was like I don't see theseofficers doing anything
Anybody's.
They get a foxhole sandbags,cool and lanyards.
That's the, you know, the NCOsand the enlisted, the backbone

(38:59):
of the army.
You know they're just there tomanage.
I was like that sounds kind ofcool and I just kind of kept
with it because I loved moving,I loved meeting new people, I
love the adventure of it, and soit kind of stuck with it.

Speaker 4 (39:16):
Yeah.
I love that I could keep going.
But we have money right?

Speaker 1 (39:27):
I think no, no, no, no no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no no no, no, no, no, no, no, so much
more.

Speaker 4 (39:36):
Good job, Michael, just我也.
So we'll get out.
So we, just we, just olivemagic in.

Speaker 1 (39:41):
Um, and you know there's not gonna be three jobs
right now.

Speaker 4 (39:46):
You just have to find Prayer.
I know the lie, you know, oh,you really did and that's kind
of a she's on the big screen inof I don't know window that
opens.
You're like I'm going to takeit because if life was like I'm
not going back there.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
Yeah, so I'm so thankful my resiliency came from
that, I believe.

Speaker 4 (40:05):
Yeah, yeah, I believe it too.

Speaker 1 (40:09):
And I appreciate yours as well.

Speaker 4 (40:15):
I also love that Tupac was kind of the the score
or the soundtrack of that timefor you, like allowing you to
jam out as you were, like movinginto that transition.

Speaker 1 (40:26):
Absolutely.

Speaker 4 (40:27):
Pretty cool.
There are those songs thatstick with you when you're doing
hard things, right.

Speaker 1 (40:33):
In a way that the ones that you party to.

Speaker 4 (40:34):
It's just different.
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah pushingyou forward.
So so we're going to transitiona little bit throughout your
timeline for for this next song.
And that is what's a song thatwhen you hear it, you are just
instantly transported to aspecific time or place.
What song is it and where doesit take you?

(40:55):
So?

Speaker 1 (40:58):
oddly enough, elton John's Tiny Dancer takes me back
to the gas chamber, Becausethat's where that monitor was
given to me in the military andstuck with me.
Because if you've everexperienced a gas chamber, it's
not pleasant, but I've alwaysbeen like a water off, ducks

(41:19):
back, make the best of thesituation, kind of lift people
up.
So I was always singing anddancing and they called me Tiny
Dancer because I came out ofthere like who's not running out
of my nose, tears pouring outof my eyes, can't breathe and
you're flapping and a fewseconds later I'm like oh, I'm

(41:40):
so tired and dance and that namestuck with me through my gen
days.
But you know I was elisted what?

Speaker 3 (41:50):
I got it, yeah.
Yeah, just to give a little bitof context for people that
might not be familiar with themilitary, as part of, I know,
army basic training I'm not surethe other branches, but part of
army basic training is doingthe gas chamber.
You put your gas mask on, yougo in, you do stuff and then you
got to take it off, let the gashit you the CS gas and, yes,

(42:13):
not comes out.
And then you come out and it'sto, you know, get you to realize
that you can go.
It's going to suck but you'regoing to be okay, kind of thing.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
So you know that, getting getting comfortable with
being uncomfortable, Rightcontext so and so they open up
CS gas in there and you know youthink you're gonna fool them.
Right, you're gonna go in thereand pretend like you're
breathing it in.
No, they're going to be likewhat's your date of birth?

(42:42):
And you're like, oh, no, thealphabet to me.
And you're like people throwingup and like people are trying
to get out of there.
They are not letting you gountil they're happy they're not
open the door and want to comeout, and so you're not tricking
anybody, you're getting fullexperience.

Speaker 5 (43:05):
It's not like dummy vapors or anything, it's.
It's the real stuff.

Speaker 1 (43:09):
It's the real CS gas and the room is grass, Wow, Like
they're all in the center on atable.
There's no ventilationwhatsoever and you are stuck in
the muck and you're not goinganywhere until you satisfy the

(43:29):
drill sergeant.
And you know, ended up goingthrough it several times
throughout my career.
But you know, once you've doneit it's kind of like let's
embrace that suck.
You know you're not going tofake the funk, You're not going
to get out of not reallybreathing it in and being like a
drama.
Well, you're really gonnaexperience some awesome good.

Speaker 3 (43:52):
But, make the best of it.
And so, with that context ofthis, is where Don Michael is
singing this song.
Here's the song he was singingwith us.

(44:23):
So now another song.
We will never hear the same way.

Speaker 1 (44:33):
No, I would have done my lollipop guild dance for you
, but I'm wearing pajama pants,right?

Speaker 4 (44:44):
How does it feel hearing it again?

Speaker 1 (44:47):
It it that song, particularly when I read it.
It transports me back to thegas chamber, really, yeah, and a
really fun day for me, actually, because the camaraderie of
everybody coming through thesame suck you can identify on
the same level.
Not having had the experience,and now going through it minutes

(45:12):
after you're out there, youdon't touch your eyes, don't you
know?
Because it's gonna be a worseexperience.
You're seeing all your buddiescome through and they're having
it worse than you, with justsnot is slapping around
everywhere and you're like I'mnot gonna let him live this down
, but we're gonna make it a goodexperience, you know?
You just like don't let themknow that they've broken you and

(45:37):
they'll be like just move on,I've gotten to have so much crap
duty that way.
He's like I love this, give memore.
I'm a real Sergeant.

Speaker 5 (45:48):
Thank you can.

Speaker 2 (45:48):
I have another.

Speaker 3 (45:50):
Yeah, please, sir, may I have another?
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (45:52):
Oh, my goodness this is Don Michael.

Speaker 5 (45:56):
I don't know if you've heard the, if you watched
that David's episode, but thisis like the Britney Spears
experience.
Yes, you remember thatreference.

Speaker 1 (46:06):
I do, I do recall, yeah.

Speaker 3 (46:08):
Yeah, no, james, I was gonna throw us in Timberlake
Social and all my stuff.
And it's so true because there'sso many military stories with
this.
I know Carolina likes the one Itell where it was like there
was one of these thick bridalmagazines and I was in the all
male infantry but somehow thatthey got in our hands somehow

(46:29):
and that thing went all aroundthe platoon.
Yeah, there was like a sign nubsheet for it.
Now, maybe that was becausepeople were doing other stuff
with it, but you know, but youwould yeah.

Speaker 4 (46:40):
Wow, wow, wow.

Speaker 3 (46:41):
Yeah, the pages are stuck together, okay, but no,
you were just like it was thesame way with the Britney Spears
.
For me, I think, in that wayit's just, it's something that
connects you back to home and soit doesn't matter so much what
it is Almost the more like poppy, britney Spears, pop culture
stuff, the better, I think.

Speaker 1 (47:03):
Yeah, no, I had like while I was down range in Iraq I
had this album that I wouldlisten to incessantly and it
would take me back to Tikritrunning on the Olympic field at
like two in the morning and butI mean, when I really hear a
song, it definitely takes meback to the CS chamber, you know

(47:28):
, and every time it comes on itand it's just, it's not a
negative feeling whatsoever,it's kind of like that
camaraderie that you will neverhave outside of the army.
You lose it when you leave thearmy and I know that you can
vouch for that, david.
All right, I hope you know,because we were nuts to butts.

(47:54):
We were two man tents huddledtogether, freezing weather,
sleeping under five tons.
I know you had a little bitworse as an infantry, but at
least I got to sleep in a ammobox.

Speaker 3 (48:09):
I was just on the ground.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 (48:18):
Oh, I was gonna say just one last thing was I think
it's the opposite effect of it,right?
I think one of the comments wemade with David's choice of the
Britney Spears song was I'mimagining like explosions and
stuff going off and artilleryfire and stuff, and there's
Britney Spears toxicity playing,right, and I get kind of the

(48:39):
same feeling with this one.
It's like okay, so you know,gas chamber.
The last thing that I would putin that visual would be Elton
John's tiny dancer, Elton John.

Speaker 1 (48:49):
he was outside with a piano though.

Speaker 2 (48:51):
Putting it at UK now.

Speaker 1 (48:53):
No, no, no, no, it was the USO tour.

Speaker 3 (48:56):
I was gonna say that's the USO tour they need.
They need to be in basictraining outside the gas chamber
.

Speaker 1 (49:01):
They don't motivate those guys.

Speaker 3 (49:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:05):
I love him, I love him.

Speaker 5 (49:07):
Usually they end up getting oh sorry, kevin, go
ahead.

Speaker 4 (49:11):
No, I was just gonna say I love.
I love Elton John in those waysthat he's got those like.
He's got those fun songs that,like you envision, kind of it's
laid at a bar and you're justlike singing it with your
friends at the top of your lungsand getting all the words wrong
.
But, still just like stoppyloving it.

Speaker 3 (49:31):
Hold me closer, Tony Danza.

Speaker 4 (49:33):
Hold me closer, Tony.

Speaker 3 (49:33):
Danza.

Speaker 1 (49:37):
Yeah, Tony Danza.

Speaker 4 (49:38):
Thunder Jeep.

Speaker 5 (49:39):
Thunder Jeep.

Speaker 4 (49:41):
Yeah, I know he just retired.
I wanna say he officiallystopped touring.
But I think his soundtrack andhis songs like live on amongst
friends, Like it feels likethose songs you sing with
friends at parties.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
They're timeless and I think they will remain
timeless Like Rocket man.
I love so many of Elton John'ssongs, and candle in the wind.
He's one of those artists thatwill stand the test of time
through the ages, I believe, butfor me for sure.

Speaker 3 (50:17):
It seems he seems like one of those artists where
people don't talk about him asif they're an Elton John fan or
not, like I'm sure people thatare real Elton John fans, like
follow him and stuff, will sayI'm a fan, but I feel, like
everybody else, it's just.
Like Carolina you said which ofhis songs was there in your

(50:39):
life, or what's the one it's notlike, oh, I'm not a fan of
Elton John.

Speaker 1 (50:43):
It's like no, no, oh, rocket Man's, yep, that's my
song, or Tiny, whatever it is,it's just one of those it takes
you back to that moment with,like, your very best friend, and
you're just howling at eachother and you think you're
killing it.

Speaker 4 (50:58):
But all the words are wrong, not so much.

Speaker 3 (51:01):
Yep, yep.

Speaker 1 (51:02):
Oh my God, I'm shameless.
At a karaoke bar, I don't care,I would bounce it out, no
matter what.

Speaker 4 (51:11):
I love it.
Let's get to your next song.
We've sort of focused on songsthat remind you of certain
places or certain times in yourlife.
We'll pivot to a song thatreminds you of someone in your
life.
What's a song that reminds youof your father?

Speaker 1 (51:31):
So Everclear's Father of Mine, like I've stated
previously, he was kind of inand out of my life and so that
song when it came out, storybased upon the lead singers,
kind of traumatic childhoodupbringing and this relationship

(51:53):
that was lacking with thefather, but the way he sang it
as a grown man, as a child, likewhere have you been?
And it really resonates with mebecause the stability is
something that I wanted andalways lacked and it seemed like

(52:15):
in his life I was a pawn, theFBI was always following him.
So having a kid with you is agood way to you know.
Oh, right right, you get awaywith things and not to say of my

(52:35):
family members.
My stepdad certainly notabusive.
My father wasn't physically oremotionally abusive to me, it
was just others.
There was a certain level ofrespect that he gave me, but he
was never there.
And there was this time wherehe came and stayed with us for

(52:59):
three months and slept on ourcouch with my stepdad and my mom
in the house, when I was infifth grade.
Fifth grade and I just recentlyasked my mom remember that time
that my dad came to stay withus.
Why was that?

(53:21):
She said oh, to kill hisbrother.
I was like, makes sense, whichyou know.
He had his reasons, but mindblown, right, you don't know
this thing as a kid.
He's not there to visit me,he's there to kill his sibling
Right, right, yeah yeah, andyou're like whoa.

(53:44):
I never felt that fear from him.
Maybe some of his brothersweren't so nice, but I garnered
a lot of respect through him, soI was kind of like a bubble boy
in those environments.

Speaker 3 (54:02):
Yeah, let's take a listen to the song and we'll
talk some more on the other side.
Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 2 (54:11):
Father of mine, tell me, where have you been?
Yeah, just close my eyes andthe world disappears.
Father of mine, tell me, how doyou sleep with the children you
abandon and the wife I signedwith me?
I will never be the same.

(54:32):
I will never be the same.
I will always be where youdecide.
I will always be the lead.
Now I have a grown man With achild in my heart and I swear
I'm not the real Of a pain Iknow.

Speaker 3 (54:57):
I hope you can.
I'll spend the rest of the way.
Daddy gave me a day To stay myway.
My daddy gave me a day.

Speaker 4 (55:10):
How does it feel listening to it now?

Speaker 1 (55:14):
Oh yeah, it's spot on .
You know, he and his group umwomen were property and there
was physical and emotional abuse, which my mom will never admit
to she says she wasn't, but Iknow that she was and I was like

(55:37):
what about that time that heheld you down and pissed on you
on the bed?
She's like oh, that was a joke,I'm sorry, I'm like yeah that's
uh, you know who's that galwith the got kidnapped and
robbed the banks Patty Hearst.

Speaker 3 (55:56):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:56):
Yeah, she like bought into their car.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 (56:02):
Yeah, and Stockholm Syndrome yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:06):
That's it.
Yeah, so it was kind of likethat and, you know, being a fly
on the wall, um, I was like I'mnot going to let that happen.
I have two daughters, one's 15,one's nine, and they are the
apples of my eye, they are myworld, they're my only reason
for living.
You know, I want the best forthem and, you know, maybe that

(56:33):
would be a side job for me, asopposed to like trying to gain
massive amounts of capital.
If, if I hadn't had that lackof security and I was like I do
not want them to ever feelwanting, uh, or that I'm not

(56:53):
there, or that I don't supportthem fully and completely.
So, yeah, I, I listen to thissong and it's like that's what
I'm here to give them, what Ididn't have.
But I had an example Just thewrong way to do it, right, right
.
So you?

Speaker 3 (57:12):
just a great example.

Speaker 4 (57:16):
Yeah, I think so.
I had read your, your, um, yoursong list ahead of time and, uh
, ever said I did it like a fewdays ago and ever since I've
kind of been blaring ever clearon my, on my um, on my headset
and David and I were talkingabout it how, like at the time

(57:37):
when they were out, uh, whenthey were like super popular in
the nineties- I don't know thatthey were appreciated as much as
they probably should have been,but like to to kids like me, I
couldn't.
I couldn't put together whytheir music resonated so much
with me.
Until I heard, until I readyour story and the connection to
the song and I think the way hesings about breaking

(57:59):
generational trauma, and justhis voice, he like he's not
screaming, but it's this likeimpassioned.
I don't know music nerds onhere Raza, like there's
something about the way he singsit that it's like a cry.

Speaker 3 (58:15):
He sounds like he's an adult, but he sounds like
he's the kid, yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:19):
He's right, like yeah , just pounding on the table.
It was like, why did you dothis to me?
He's he's approaching it from aextremely emotional standpoint
that you could have just donegood by me.
How hard would it have been tobe there with a little support.

(58:40):
And I love that song, him andhim and him.
You know, because of the mom,we're really on my list of
Memories, but I've had a lot ofgreat people in my life too.
So you know, I didn't have tofigure it all out on my own at a

(59:01):
young age.
I Could take bits and piecesfrom different people and
collect those to make them myown, and the music, of course,
that spoke to me would get me.
I would.
I was constantly listeningmusic.
I would just be hold upeverywhere with like headphones
on and just listening tomeaningful music, not the

(59:24):
popular music, but the songsthat truly I Spoke a language
that I felt was mine, mm-hmm.
So that's what it meant to me,and that song, surely, is way up
there.
I.

Speaker 5 (59:42):
Was gonna respond to one of those nerd the music nerd
.
Reference and I think I haveone.

Speaker 4 (59:50):
Because I can't words to whatever it is I'm hearing
or feeling.

Speaker 3 (59:54):
Yeah, no um.

Speaker 5 (59:55):
I, I, I, the.
So the theme of Sort of the theabsent father is something that
I just I don't have personalexperience with that much and
and but I've as a music nerd.
I hear a lot about it andobviously that it's in movies

(01:00:17):
and things like that, so I knowit's.
It is like a thing, right, I'mjust kidding.
No but, I know, yeah, yeah yeah,yeah so but but, but I know
it's, I know it's a thing and Iknow it's and I know it's very,
very difficult and I havefriends and and I mean, you know
, I Know lots of people, justthankfully, you're.

(01:00:37):
I'm grateful that I don't havedirect experience in this.
However, as someone who is nota big fan of ever clear here, I
remember when this song came out.
I was just like I.
I said it was, it was, it was.
I remember the video for thesong on MTV.
I was just like, okay, yeah,you know like I feel kind of bad
for art Exocas now because Iguess his dad wasn't around, but

(01:01:00):
but I still wasn't, I didn'treally care for the music.
And then I heard there was asong in in in slipknot first
album in which Corey Taylor sayssomething to the effect of I am
my father's son because he's aphantom, a mystery, and that
leaves me.
And then he screams nothing.

(01:01:20):
So this song actually remindsme of another song with this
where there was a similar themeabout the absent dad.
So I wanted to bring bring thatthat full circle back Metal
circle right but bring it in andI do appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:37):
And there's the metal analysis, so yeah, the, the,
the mental gymnastics raza thatyou just went through to try to
maintain the judgment-freenature of this podcast.
Like I Loved your song, eventhough I don't like it, because
it reminded me of this othersong that I really do.

Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
Beautiful mind with like Equations floating around.
I feel you, man, and now Igotta go, not.

Speaker 5 (01:02:09):
And that was the point, my friend, by the.
I am duly licensed by theDistrict of Columbia Court of
Appeals.
Maintain that judgment-free,and there you go.

Speaker 4 (01:02:30):
Such a lawyer answer oh and we never know to like
what's gonna feel like an anthemfor us.
Like you know the BritneySpears stuff for the Elton
John's.
Like you never know when a songis gonna just hit that way.

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah send chills down your spine or
goosebumps on the back of yourneck and arms.
You're like, holy crap, yeah,were they writing about me?
Or the therapeutic version ofit is like they're successful,
they've dealt with this and theyhave overcome.

(01:03:07):
You know, maybe there's mentalanguish, but then you take the
next step of finding grace andforgiveness, because there's no
reason to wear that weight orthat burden on your shoulders
when the other party doesn'tgive a damn about you.

Speaker 3 (01:03:25):
You know right, yeah, it's like let it go.

Speaker 1 (01:03:28):
You know your life will be better as a result.
So it's it's incrementalprocess and I wouldn't say
father of mine Just because youdidn't have it.
You had a very involved fatherComing from Pakistan.
You you weren't as destitute asme, but was my life worse?

(01:03:49):
I mean, I got to do whateverthe hell I wanted.
I was a latchkey kid.
They didn't care about me.
You would be jealous of that, Ithink.

Speaker 5 (01:04:02):
No, no, absolutely, yeah, um, it's.
I, I love, I Love, I love thispodcast for that reason, but I
think mainly I love the factthat it's and we're you know
full disclosure I think thethree of us can get, can tell
you, you know, the same thing,and for our audience as well,

(01:04:23):
which is that Some of thestories that that, that, don
Michael, and your experiencethat you come with, I I've, I've
known you a while and in a lotof these details I I haven't
known personally and hearingabout them, and and and our
other guests and things likethat.
So so everyone who who has beena guest has has brought things
to the table that I Don't haveany, you know, we might not have

(01:04:47):
personal experience with, butthe fact that other people
experience it, I'm and and Ithink all of us are curious in
that way to Not not to makejudgment, but just to learn.
This is a learning experience.
So something about this podcastus being adults, us being us
Haven't gone through a bunch ofstuff.
All of us have our ownexperiences.
Mine are clearly different, youknow, from it, from anybody

(01:05:10):
else's, but it is cool to shareit and it's cool to learn from
it, and and and and thensomewhere in there, you know, in
weaving the idea of findingrelatable music to tell that
story.
Yeah, you know our dads aredifferent, but the fact that we
can be on this platform and talkabout it and have a laugh about

(01:05:32):
it and have a Beverage to goalong with it dude, absolutely
that's.

Speaker 1 (01:05:42):
But yeah, yeah, yeah no, I appreciate and, like I
said, I Haven't walked in yourshoes.
I wouldn't say your upbringingwas better than mine, I think,
coming from Pakistan to FreezyFreezy.

Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
New York or Chicago was it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:03):
You know they like we got to get to Florida.
You know, you know, I don'twant to live in Chicago.
I don't want to live in upstateNew York.
I mean, I also don't want tolive in Florida, no offense, but
it doesn't get any better inTexas.
A Plug from a steak no, I'm notone of those guys.

(01:06:27):
But yeah, so it is what it isand it's.
It's good to not feel alone inthose times and to listen to
music that resonates with you.
It takes you out of that alone.
You know, it's like thisConversation you're having in
your head with somebody who canempathize.

Speaker 4 (01:06:47):
Yeah, yeah, I have described it before.
Sometimes this some likesometimes, when you're going
through something, you you don'tknow you're going through it,
or you can't put words to whatyou're going through, you can't
call it, you can't name thething, but when an artist puts
words to what you're feeling,like that feels like a
revelation, all right and in thecase of ever clear the way they

(01:07:09):
sing it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:10):
You know you have an act about that way, but damn, it
feels good to have somebodylike as your cheerleader, right,
and you can crank it up in thecar and you can sing it and
people won't think you're crazywhen you're pounding on your
dashboard.

Speaker 4 (01:07:24):
Yes you know, yes, ever clear is good for the rage
thing in in the car.
I feel absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:07:32):
It's, unless somebody can't hear the music and just
sees you screaming at yourself.
The windows are rolled out.
It's like I'm gonna changelanes.

Speaker 4 (01:07:44):
I think I was telling our daughter about this the
other day because I getself-conscious sometimes if I'm
singing that like people aroundme.
But if I pass a car and theperson in the other car is
clearly belting something out, Ijust I'd be like I don't know
what you're singing to, but goodfor you.

Speaker 1 (01:08:03):
Absolutely.
It's those times when you'redriving home from work and the
radio is not playing and you'regoing to speed limit.
That's where you know you'velost it.

Speaker 4 (01:08:20):
Right, that's right, oh my god yes hashtag adulting.

Speaker 5 (01:08:24):
At that point I'll give you a Texas plug.
I've loved, you know.
So for our audience.
I mean, you know, don Michaeland I spent some time together
in Texas and my first.
So I drove from Florida when I,you know, just before starting
law school, I drove I 10 West myfirst time, you know, in the in

(01:08:47):
the central time zone, and Ihad, I had an SUV and I had two
things, had two stickers on my,on my, on my SUV.
One was a University of Florida, so you know, go Gators, and
the second one was a slipknotdecal on one of my windows and

(01:09:08):
and so as I'm pulling into, youknow, houston, harris County,
texas, I Can see this guy.
I'm forgetting on which highwayor which which road it was, but
I can see this clearly, youknow, like pointing at me, maybe
it was honking, I'm forgetting.
Now you know the detail.
The one thing people told mewas like okay, houston drivers,

(01:09:30):
please be careful, just lookstraight, get to where you got
to go, don't pay attention towhat people are doing, because
no I can't know, I can't say itmight not end well, anyway.
So I'm looking at this guy andhe's clearly looking at me and
he's trying to like, yeah, andhe's like I put the window down.
You know, I'm like, oh god, so,anyway, so put the window down.

(01:09:56):
He's like, dude, first of allgo Gators, you know, and I'm
like, all right.
He's like second, slipknot,fucking love those guys.
Texas, texas, I like it.

(01:10:16):
I was welcome from the get-goman.
Houston, texas, I love itabsolutely.
Love, love that city and and Ihaven't been back in many, many
years but my god, the music, the, the food.

Speaker 3 (01:10:32):
It's such a good city except for it had such a good
time separate traffic and I'm soglad that you were in my tight
group of friends like throughout.

Speaker 1 (01:10:43):
Yeah, it was.
It was fantastic.
You're such a good dude, soThanks for going.

Speaker 5 (01:10:48):
Thank you.

Speaker 4 (01:10:49):
Thanks for coming Thanks for making the drive Raza
that's right and good choice ofbumper stickers.
Good job, friends.

Speaker 5 (01:11:02):
Yeah, oh.

Speaker 4 (01:11:04):
My goodness.
Okay.
So Our songs up to now havebeen kind of reflective or
looking back To people or times,but sometimes we just like like
to jam out when we're doingthings right, doing activities
and whatnot.
So for your next song, um,what's a song that's like
intimately connected to whatother activity?

(01:11:26):
A book, a location, a trip,something?

Speaker 1 (01:11:29):
like, yeah, this would be Bob Seeger's and Silver
Bullet man.
Turn the page.
And that is connected to.
After I got done working at thedistrict attorney's office in

(01:11:49):
Dallas, texas, we were fortunatethat, like pay off all our
debts our house, cars, creditcard debt we bought an RV and we
moved out of our house and welived in a 24 foot bumper to
bumper RV.
It was me, my wife and my threeand a half year old daughter,

(01:12:11):
and for 16 months we traveled toeach of the lower 48 states
together and created memories,sat around a lot of campfires,
entered into a lot of likeprecarious situations, but turn

(01:12:31):
the page is just veryreminiscent because one.
I would play it often on thattrip.
I love that song.
I love Metallica's redo of itbeautiful.
Not a big fan of what's namedWayland Jennings version, but
nonetheless just that.
That song transports me becauseyou know it's.

(01:12:55):
It's about a traveling musicianand the Trials and tribulations
that you go through in yourjourneys when doing so.

Speaker 3 (01:13:04):
Yeah, let's, let's take a listen to the song let's,
let's take a listen.

Speaker 2 (01:13:12):
Most times you can't hear them talk, other times you
can.
All the same old cliches Isthat a woman or a man?
And you always see my number.
You don't dare make a stand.
And here I am On the road again.

(01:13:41):
There I am Up on the stage.
Here I go Playing the staragain.
There I go, turn the page.

Speaker 1 (01:14:04):
The response that I was talking about.
Let's see if we can get those.

Speaker 4 (01:14:07):
You know, yeah, that song is so just like soulful.

Speaker 1 (01:14:12):
It just, yeah, it's folksy rock, see, bluesy, you
know if that's the thing.
And it just his very distinctsound.
Bob Seeger love it the openingwith a saxophone.
You know, when he starts tohear that, come on, you're like,

(01:14:33):
oh, that's my jam, turn it up.
And yeah, lots of campfires,just talking good times.
But yeah, you Wander intouncharted territories.
I wasn't wandering as amusician, but you go into
unfamiliar places where youmight not be well accepted.

(01:14:54):
You know, yeah, and you have toremain vigilant and kind of
went in Rome Because you've gotyour little kid and your wife
and you're there to protect them, but all the while, yeah, this
song resonated with me deeplyand and that is the song that is

(01:15:18):
like the anthem to that trip,which I recommend everybody do
if given the opportunity, youknow a lot of nature, walks and
just finding peace and yourself.
You know staying far away fromcities and maybe driving into a
few and but you know, justhitting everything along the way

(01:15:39):
national parks, and just Takingup and and taking life in as
you can and then coming backShould have been a trauma.

Speaker 5 (01:15:55):
Musician maybe made some money on the way, yeah yeah
, just bust out the guitar, andso don Michael is gonna ask you
a couple things.
One was you know, one was adetail about the trip itself and
and I'm not sure if I shouldbring up that, or or the side

(01:16:15):
note was you mentioned the.
You mentioned the Metallicaversion of this song and as soon
as I saw this on on your, onyour list, it reminded me of
that.
But but but the music video forthat song, because I didn't.
Do you remember watching that?
Metallica video for theMetallica version I did yes.

(01:16:38):
And the.
There's a storyline in that.
I was, because you know, goingback to To your, your, your sort
of origin story and your, youryounger life story that video
was reminding me or of,basically, you as a little kid,
you know following, following,you know parents and some tough

(01:16:58):
situations and then the sort ofthe, the seedier things.
I don't know if those twothings, if you want to talk
about those, or maybe any ofthat stuff, resonated with you
as well.

Speaker 1 (01:17:09):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean a lot of these songslike I was listening to this,
obviously not in 73 when itfirst came out, or when it was
Released in 76, but maybesomewhere about 79, 80.
It was being pumped into myears like thunder jeep, and so

(01:17:31):
you know it Once, you listen itoften and it grows on you and
you, just you really love it.
At that time you're notthinking about the meaning
behind it, right, it's just abeautiful, distinct voice,
beautiful saxophone and the wayyou know, with a slide guitar,

(01:17:52):
that that Metallica had done itwith Jeff, it is just like.
It's just like and JamesHeckfield, the way he sings it.
So I think you know I I gottago with the original because you
know it's Bob Seager and it'swhat I was raised on, but it's

(01:18:13):
it's not only that.
I mean there there've been aNumber of you know situations,
one in particular we were inGoodlitzville, tennessee, having
a barbecue at like a campsitewhere there's a bunch of RVs.
Some are handmade, some are amillion dollar vehicles.
You know it runs the gamut.

(01:18:35):
We were not on that higher butwe weren't struggling on the
side of the road broken down.
So good right.
But one evening I'm a host and acouple of guys who I'd be
friended.
While they're at the park theycome over and they're all

(01:18:55):
sitting there and they'retalking.
My wife is there, my kid isthere, and they start talking
about you know, collecting thenumber of billion, not remember
and Like proudly.
And my wife is Jewish.
So I stood up.
I was like I can't, you got togo on.

(01:19:17):
He like storms off and then Igo to like knock on his door.
He's like I've got a gun and Igo inside.
I'm like we've got to addressthis man.
Yeah, he wouldn't, he wasn'tgoing to shoot me.
He was just like he thoughtmaybe I had some animus towards
him.

(01:19:37):
I was just like you know, right,yeah, no, this is uh, I can't
accept that.
I can't have anybody gettingaway with that.
So we've got to knit this inthe bud.
And you know there was sorrysaid.
Um, you know I wasn't able tochange any minds, but, you know,
maybe think twice before youflippantly talk about race,

(01:20:03):
sexual orientation, uh, you know, the Holocaust, as if it didn't
happen.
You know, whatever it is, um,you know, just have respect and
understand that maybe noteverybody carries your point of
view.
Um, maybe going to knock on thedoor and after he said he had a
gun going inside.

(01:20:23):
But you know, I'm I'm committedat this point and yeah, so
all's well that ends well.

Speaker 4 (01:20:31):
Right.
That's just like we're going totalk this out.

Speaker 1 (01:20:33):
Yeah, we let's, let's uh brass tacks, you know.
Let's throw the emotion out thewindow and just say you'll
never say that shit around meagain.

Speaker 3 (01:20:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:20:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:20:45):
And yeah, almost in this way of like well, he just
told me he's a, he's a Nazisympathizer.
We can't just have walkingaround.

Speaker 1 (01:20:52):
We got to go talk to him yeah, yeah, uh, or drag him
through the park by his ankle.

Speaker 2 (01:20:59):
No, I'm not that guy.

Speaker 1 (01:21:01):
But like you know it just maybe have a little more
tolerance for others.

Speaker 4 (01:21:06):
I mean, maybe.
I mean, maybe he learnedsomething Like maybe he had he,
maybe in his life, you know, wedon't know what people's
journeys are or where they areor why they are where they are.
That was a lot of meta, but um,but you know, maybe it's
possible, he, you know.
However, he grew up and he'snever met another Jewish person.

Speaker 2 (01:21:22):
Right, so he learned something that day.

Speaker 1 (01:21:24):
I, I haven't been in his place.
I was like, wow, my words havean impact.
Right, who did that?
Maybe he's been slighted andbeat relentlessly and harbors
this resentment, and or he has agrandfather that was really
proud and he's collecting it fora different reason.
But the guy sitting across fromhim who was kind of buying into

(01:21:44):
it and supporting him, he's aFaceTime, a Facebook friend to
this day.
He was so apologetic he wrote aletter to my wife.
So you know, like forgive, butlike you know, don't let things
like that pass.
It's idly by without checkingit.

(01:22:04):
You know, and that was onesituation where you know
hindsight's a good thing but itcould have turned real bad, real
quick, sure.

Speaker 5 (01:22:14):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:22:17):
And I think it's one of those things, like you know,
there there's especially inthese past you know five, seven
years, and you know, as we getmore divided or you know,
however you want to talk aboutit, yeah, and what?
What changes people's minds,right, and what we think of,
like I'm going to give you awhole bunch of facts and stuff

(01:22:39):
like that is not really whatdoes it, but I like this, this,
this environment of what yousaid, the way you set it up,
like Carolina said, like it's anenvironment that is set up to
potentially change someone'smind, right, yeah, because of
the interaction.
It wasn't at some kind of rallyor something like that, where

(01:23:01):
everyone's you know or othersides or something like that.
You guys are sitting around in acasual way and this happens,
and then you confront it and saywhy.
You know that person's probablyin a better position maybe to
get that than if he was with.
You know a hundred other peoplethat were saying similar things

(01:23:23):
and a hundred other people onthe other side chanting other
things or something like that.

Speaker 1 (01:23:27):
So yeah, yeah, and it probably helped that I was a
white guy telling him thatinstead of a Jewish person.
But my wife and my child, byvirtue of her being Jewish, is
also Jewish.
So I had to address it becauseI could see how my, my wife was
just like sinking in her chairand you know I was like filled

(01:23:53):
with a little bit of rage but Iwas like you got to get the fuck
out of here, you know apologize.
And then I needed to talk aboutit and I got a letter of
support from the one and heapologized, but not good enough
to where he came back to anotherbarbecue and we weren't even

(01:24:14):
good, let's feel much longer,because they were like
Confederate flags rollingthrough there and you know, but
I'm not that, you know, I meanthat's history for them, but you
know it's also tied to a lot ofhatred for others.

Speaker 4 (01:24:35):
Yeah, that history has impact for lots of people
from marginalized groups.

Speaker 1 (01:24:40):
Yeah, yeah, and my job is to be an advocate.
If I can advocate for my ownfamily, what am I doing?

Speaker 4 (01:24:47):
What exactly?
Yeah, exactly, and I'm notgoing to get close to the time.
Just connection like that, likejust a conversation like that
goes so much further than yeahTrying to use force or violence
to get your force.

Speaker 1 (01:25:03):
Nothing ever comes of that, right.
I'm going to give youstatistics.
They don't give a damn aboutthat.
That's deeply ingrained.
If they're collectingmemorabilia, they didn't think
of it yesterday.
You know, right, right and infact I don't know if you want to
talk about it.

Speaker 4 (01:25:22):
No, just when you connect with someone and share a
story and meet.
You know, see people in reallife.
Like it's hard to hate someonewhen you've gotten to know them
for a minute.

Speaker 1 (01:25:32):
Yeah, no, and you see this different side of them and
you want to get to the bottomof it.
Like I'm an inquisitive person,I want to know why people do
what they do and what leads tothat.
Like, just peel the onion backso I can better understand,
because that helps me grow.
You know, if I look througheverything with a monocular, I'm

(01:25:54):
going to have a warped sense ofvision or horse blinders.
So I've got to listen to thestory and I've got to take it in
, be as non-judgmental as I canand then address it in a way
that is going to be helpful, notharmful.
You know and this happened Iwas invited into the 18th Is it

(01:26:15):
the 18th Airborne Corps, aparatrooper like foundation.
The guy who brought me in was amillionaire and wanted to donate
a lot of money to my veteransnonprofit.
I went to one of the meetings.
I showed up and they weresaying the N word and I called

(01:26:37):
up to Washington DC and this guywas a president who they would
fly in every year to accept anaward.
They kicked him out of theprogram because I wouldn't let
it go.
I was like I'm not going to letsome former uniform wearing
individual who espousesprotection for people is going

(01:27:01):
to like, minimize others andthink that the white race is
better.
And I wasn't going to let thatgo.
And they made me a lifetimemember with no dues and his ass
was bye, bye.
It didn't matter how much moneyhe had.
My nonprofit did not get hismoney, but I didn't give a damn

(01:27:21):
about it after I heard thatstuff.
Sure, I'll have principles, youknow, and they have a couple.
It's a couple.
Yeah, oh, my goodness, I got tosay Don Michael.
I mean, as far as you know.

Speaker 5 (01:27:33):
I don't know.
Yeah, you're an advocate andthen you know just the fact that
you're an attorney and thingslike that.
But that's one form of advocacy, but I think actually standing
up in the moment is somethingthat very few people get to do

(01:27:58):
and I think that you're just,you know, just in these last
couple of examples that you gaveright, it's, it's my hats off
to you, dude.
I mean, it's like I'm proud toknow you and then to know
someone who will Don't make mecry.

Speaker 2 (01:28:19):
And I appreciate your validation.

Speaker 5 (01:28:22):
Yeah, no, it's, it's.
It's one thing to say, okay,you know, get the fuck out of
here.
It's something else to say that, you know, I'm just going to
ignore it, which is which isperfectly fine.
I mean, I would.
I'm one of the people that I'mnon confrontational and all All
of that and but.
But to number one, you know,recognize, okay, I just, you

(01:28:44):
know whether it was the firstexample, or the barbecue example
, recognize what's going on andthings like that.
But then, actually, you know,doing something about it, but,
but, but, but having aconversation about it, that's,
that's what it was Like.
I'm going to speak to thisperson as a man, as a person,
and, and you know, try tounderstand whether to change

(01:29:06):
their mind or not.
That's a different story, butyou know, you did your part.
What you can do is have aconversation and stand up, which
you did, it's like and then theend result, whether it's good,
bad, ugly, whatever, you know,that's that's besides the point.
So, yeah, no, it's, it's, it's.

(01:29:27):
I mean, you know, I thinkbravery is one way to describe
it, but standing up and and andsticking up for, for others,
whether they're, you know,minorities, or or, or, or your
wife, I mean, my God, you know,your, your, your spouse, your
family is directly impacted bythis, this, by the situation.

(01:29:51):
And yeah, it's, I'm yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:29:57):
Life is fleeting my friend.

Speaker 5 (01:29:58):
What else can I say?

Speaker 1 (01:30:00):
Tomorrow is in promise, right.
Do the best thing you can whileyou're here.
Don't be selfish.
You know there are people whohave it far worse, and so where
you you see an opportunity.
I saw one there.
You know I'm not a hothead, butI'm not.
I'm not going to cower awayfrom anything.

(01:30:24):
I wasn't raised that way and Iwould feel like a shell of a
person if I hadn't addressed it.
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:30:39):
Yeah, okay.
So as we talk about, you know,we just kind of came off of of
some experiences, of just liketalking and sharing perspectives
and and thinking about otherperspectives.
This leads us we're nearing theend here.
This leads us to your lastquestion, your last song.
What's the song that opened youup to an entirely new

(01:31:02):
perspective?

Speaker 1 (01:31:04):
It was Seven Spanish Angels by Ray Charles and the
country God, willie Nelson, yes.
That beautiful, beautiful song.
I was raised in a atheisticfamily.
You know.
There is no God.

(01:31:24):
There can't be with the lifewe're given.
Trust, no one.
There was a God, you know.
And it's just such a beautiful,soulful song where two genres
where you wouldn't expect RayCharles and Willie Nelson, both

(01:31:45):
icons in their own genres andwill stand that test of time,
came together to create thisbeautiful masterpiece with
redemption, love, loss.
It just spoke to me so much andyou know, you listen to the

(01:32:06):
song and it's just like thatgoosebumps moment where it's
like there's got to be somethinggreater out there.
I don't know what it is, but I'mjust not going to flat out say
there's nothing, because I'veescaped a lot of different stuff
.
People say I'm the luckiestperson they know.

(01:32:27):
I think I'm the most fortunateperson they know.
You know, and I don't takecredit for that, I mean people
will say I stumbled backwards inthe shit like good stuff, like
not even looking for it, andthat's not true.
But my mom says that becauseshe's jealous, whatever.

(01:32:47):
But our relationship now isgood.
You know, I went to a birthdayparty a couple of weeks ago,
drove six hours around trip forit.
So you know there's no ill willor resentment there.
But you'll never get thereunless you can see beyond

(01:33:08):
yourself.
You know and think that maybeI'm just a small part of
nothingness.
Right, there's something muchgreater.
I don't know what my purpose is, but I'm going to make the best
opportunity of it, and thatbest opportunity is not

(01:33:31):
harboring resentment and thissong just.
I may cry when I hear All right.

Speaker 3 (01:33:39):
Well, let's get you crying then no, here we go.
Seven Spanish angels.

Speaker 2 (01:33:51):
When the battle stopped and the smoke cleared,
there was thunder from thethrone and seven Spanish angels
took another angel home.
Seven Spanish angels at thealtar of the sun.

(01:34:14):
They were praying for thelovers in the valley of the gun.
Yeah, well, that's all.

Speaker 1 (01:34:27):
I love it.
I love it.
I love Willie Nelson.
Here's my first concert ever in1983 in Austin Texas.
It's online.
All I remember was a bunch oflike skunky smelling stuff.
My aunt had brought this coolfloppy hat that you could like

(01:34:52):
fold and it would just go intolike a little disc.
And my other crazy aunt hadbrought a little red riding hood
.
You'd flip it upside down,became grandmother, you'd flip
her backwards and it become thewolf, like you know.
I know that there was a concertgoing on stage, but I was just
like a little dazed and confusedby the skunks that were around

(01:35:16):
and those cool gadgets that Iwas playing with.

Speaker 3 (01:35:20):
Yeah, yeah, oh, that's good stuff.
Yeah, I mean, it's not just.
You know, we said it on EltonJohn in that same way, and I
feel like Willie Nelson and RayCharles too.
But you know, willie Nelson,this kind of icon, in this way
of just yeah, it's just like you, just like I wouldn't say I'm a

(01:35:42):
Willie Nelson fan, but thatdoesn't mean I don't like him.
I'm just not like you know,getting all the stuff and
listening to all the time, butanytime he comes on like getting
this song ready for you know,tonight just Aaron is voice
kicking and you're like, oh,it's like a, like a hug, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:35:58):
You.
You hear half a second of halfa note that he's singing and you
know it's Willie Nelson, thatname you know.

Speaker 3 (01:36:07):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:36:07):
And if you're a Texan , you hold him in the highest
regard, just like George Strait.
You know, and I saw him again.
I've seen him several times,but most recently, like a year
and a half ago, he's still likehe's still doing his thing.

(01:36:29):
He well up to a year and a halfago and it blew my mind because
he stood the entire time heplayed his guitar with the holes
in it from the strumming.

Speaker 3 (01:36:42):
He's got this guitar.
That's just like beat the hell.

Speaker 1 (01:36:45):
He's been playing it forever and I'm like he's so old
I can't even stand up for thatlong with my issues at 45, and
this guy is killing it, you know.
And he's still smoking bluntswith Snoop.

Speaker 3 (01:37:05):
Dogg, I was going to say, must be all that skunky
smell.

Speaker 1 (01:37:08):
Yeah, it's like from the crepe.

Speaker 4 (01:37:13):
He will raise with the ones.
That's right Well preserved.
He's not going anywhere.

Speaker 3 (01:37:17):
That's right.

Speaker 4 (01:37:18):
Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 3 (01:37:20):
Can't get buried if you're always high.

Speaker 1 (01:37:25):
You know, I'm sure, oh, my goodness.
I love that that was 40 yearsago, when I first saw him 40
years ago, and then a year and ahalf ago I saw him again.
Same guitar, yeah, just waymore beat up, and him too.

(01:37:46):
But that voice, wallace.

Speaker 5 (01:37:54):
On the road again.

Speaker 1 (01:37:56):
I can't, mama, don't let your babies grow up to be
count.
Yeah, I mean there's a litanyof them.
But that cross intersectionbetween you know the rhythm and
blues and Ray Charles and hisdistinct voice and true country,

(01:38:18):
this is not something at thetime that you saw coming
together and then Aerosmith andrun the MC, you know, you know
for, you know for runners in theyou know crossing genres.
I'm not a big fan of the wholelike pop country thing going on,

(01:38:38):
but I mean, to each their own,no judgment.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:38:43):
That's right.

Speaker 4 (01:38:44):
Well, I'm not super, I'm not familiar with this song,
but just noticing like I waslike oh, seven Spanish angels.
And then I was like listeningto the guitar and I was like, is
that like a mariachi sound backthere?
It was pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (01:38:56):
Yeah, yeah they play still guitars and they, like you
know, we got banjos, we do alot of violin in Texas with
country music, yeah, and we havethe like little watch board.
Oh yeah, you know, and so yeah,but it creates this authentic

(01:39:20):
sound and when merged with, youknow, the piano or somebody with
a soulful voice and this likenasally cowboy, that is a little
bit of a nice amazing sound tome.
It's just that's.
That's a beautiful song, yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:39:40):
I think all of it has swagger.
It's got that Texas swaggerright.
I mean, when I think of Texas,yeah, I think of, I definitely
think of Willie Nelson,definitely think of country
music, but I also think ofPantera.

Speaker 1 (01:39:58):
Oh man, oh my goodness.

Speaker 2 (01:40:01):
Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 1 (01:40:02):
Three.

Speaker 2 (01:40:04):
What do you say?

Speaker 1 (01:40:06):
I saw them in concert too.

Speaker 5 (01:40:09):
Cowboys from hell.
Are you kidding me?
Yeah, wild.

Speaker 4 (01:40:13):
I think of Beyonce because I think she's from
Houston.

Speaker 3 (01:40:15):
She's from Houston, yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:40:16):
She's from Houston.
Yeah, Texas is big y'all.

Speaker 4 (01:40:19):
Big yeah Right Texas produced.

Speaker 2 (01:40:22):
Pantera and Beyonce, yeah, and Willie Nelson.

Speaker 4 (01:40:26):
Man my goodness Her former group Pantera.

Speaker 5 (01:40:31):
Pantera go ahead.
Go ahead, rosa.
No, just because yeah.
So I mean, jamie Foxx playedRay Charles.
Right, he did it.
He was an Oscar for hisportrayal.
I know for a fact Jamie Foxx isfrom Tyler Texas.
He always talks about TylerTexas.

Speaker 1 (01:40:47):
He's the most talented guy I've ever seen.

Speaker 5 (01:40:50):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 4 (01:40:51):
He's the talented yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:40:53):
Yeah, but I don't know for sure is Ray Charles
also originally from Texas or no?

Speaker 1 (01:40:59):
I don't believe, so I don't feel like not.

Speaker 5 (01:41:01):
I don't think he's got a Texas connection Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:41:04):
I don't believe he is , which is also why it's so
unique that those two cametogether, you know, and having
the respect for each other'swork and catalogs to come
together, and you know, this islike a song in the desert, you
know, in Mexico or on the border, where people are just getting

(01:41:28):
gunned down by banditos, youknow, and on the run, homes are
being burned down and this womansees her man die and she picks
his gun up and points it at them, knowing that there's no ammo
in it, just to go home with him.

Speaker 3 (01:41:51):
Yeah, wow.
Yeah yeah, definitely listen tothe rest of the song.
Carolina and listeners, this isan opportunity to plug for our
listeners.
In case you didn't know, wehave an Apple Music and Spotify
playlist for all the songs thatare on all these episodes.
So go on there and search the ALife in Six Songs playlist on

(01:42:14):
Apple Music and Spotify and youcan listen to all of these songs
because, yes, there is moreMariachi guitar at times that
comes in.
I've definitely heard that ingoing through and pulling out
the clips and, like Don Michaeljust said, the lyrics and the
story in the other parts isthey're super good.

Speaker 4 (01:42:32):
Awesome, I'm going to be going back.
Well, don Michael, we've gonethrough your life in Six Songs.
How does it feel to hear yourlife reflected through music and
through these Six Songs?

Speaker 1 (01:42:52):
You know it's always been therapeutic for me, so I
essentially got a freecounseling session out of this
deal.

Speaker 3 (01:43:02):
And by three non-licensed therapists.

Speaker 5 (01:43:05):
I want to point out none of what we say is medical
advice.

Speaker 1 (01:43:10):
We'll call it life coaching.

Speaker 3 (01:43:11):
There you go.

Speaker 1 (01:43:14):
Life.
And, yeah, I'm just.
I'm ecstatic at the opportunityto take part in what I believe,
if used correctly many of ourfirst responders, veterans with

(01:43:35):
PTSD if they understood and usethe value of music therapy for
what it truly can be, I think wecan start to make leaps and
bounds.
Where shortcomings have, youknow, not succeeded.
And for me, I always turn tomusic in hard times and in good

(01:44:02):
times too, you know, and itprovides solace for me.
So, having talked through allthis and like, put the impact on
my life from these songs youknow they'll impact different
people different ways, but forme they were meaningful and I

(01:44:25):
encourage others to seek outthose.
You know, six songs in a lifeBecause you learn more about it.
You pay closer attention.
The closer attention you pay tothe music, if it resonates with
you and you read between thelines of music and the way in

(01:44:49):
which it's presented, it canalso just magnify and intensify
that therapeutic nature of themusic.

Speaker 4 (01:44:58):
Mm-hmm yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:45:01):
So I was given that opportunity by you also.
I thank you all for theopportunity.

Speaker 4 (01:45:09):
We, Before we pivot here to our lightning round.
We fully just appreciate youtrusting us with your story and
the music that guides it.

Speaker 1 (01:45:21):
Thank you so much, absolutely, and I appreciate you
guys sharing as well, and I'mstill running through and I'm
going to watch every episode.

Speaker 5 (01:45:31):
Awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:45:33):
Thank you.
No, it's been a pleasure doing.

Speaker 5 (01:45:35):
Yeah, bye-bye, thank you, thanks for coming on,
thanks for agreeing to do thiswith us to share your story.
Okay, so I'm not going to gettoo sappy, I'm going to keep us
moving forward and, yeah, sotoward the end we usually do a
lightning round of sorts.

(01:45:55):
You know, we've dealt deep andnow we just want sort of the
first thing that comes to mind.
So I've got a list here andwe're going to play four songs.
I'm going to throw out thewords and, david, if you have
them ready, you know we can playa very quick clip and Don
Michael, maybe the firstsentence or two that comes to

(01:46:16):
mind, and we'll just keep itmoving.

Speaker 1 (01:46:18):
So I'll pretend like I haven't written them down too,
so like this, if you wantComplete hey no.
Surprise Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:46:27):
They may be more than very eloquently.

Speaker 1 (01:46:29):
I don't know, we'll see.

Speaker 5 (01:46:34):
All right.
So what is what is fortunateson by CCR mean to you?

Speaker 1 (01:46:39):
So oh man, that go.
That's a power powerful protestanthem and it's condemning the
powerful and the privilege whoultimately, and oftentimes

(01:47:00):
flippantly, make life alteringdecisions for the
underprivileged Right.
And coming from a verydestitute childhood, you know I
harbored some resentment becauseI recall one time in college
course I was in macroeconomicsand a guy stands up and says

(01:47:22):
only dumb people should serve anarmy.
My intelligence capabilitiesare better served.

Speaker 4 (01:47:29):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:47:30):
And I was livid right .
This is one of the times whereI didn't stand up, because I was
in the army at the time.
I was going to school, I wasgetting commissioned and I just
wanted to give him some wall towall counseling, because that
that is a piss poor attitude.
You know, if you're not willingto stand up for the freedom

(01:47:53):
that this country provides, thenmaybe don't take advantage of
the freedoms you were given.
Just a personal opinion, youknow some people can't serve but
those who can, you know, maybegive it a shot.

Speaker 3 (01:48:09):
Yeah, all right.

Speaker 5 (01:48:10):
Next one.
Yeah, what is it?
All right, number two roundhere, but the counting pros
Round here.

Speaker 2 (01:48:20):
We all look the same.

Speaker 3 (01:48:25):
Oh man, one sentence, all right.
Where were you?
What's the connection?

Speaker 1 (01:48:29):
This was an introspective and melancholic
song that captured a sense ofthe aimlessness of youth and
ultimately we all go throughthat right Like yeah, you know
everything as a child, but thenyou get older and you realize
you didn't know so much.

(01:48:50):
I mean, that's kind of acompound sentence or multiple
sentences, but that's kind ofwhere I will take it.

Speaker 4 (01:48:59):
We won't get out Well put.
Yeah, I love that song.
Pick on the grammar yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:49:05):
All right, all right.
Next.

Speaker 2 (01:49:13):
What's the name of the boys?
What you got.

Speaker 1 (01:49:18):
This is a false origin story.
Putting MCA might be an ad rockthe Beastie Boys together,
where they were all on the runfrom the laws and they were like
bandoleros.
They didn't care about anybodybut themselves, right?

(01:49:40):
And then they were like let'scombine our force and wreak
havoc.
Loved it.
It was kind of like a to thesystem.

Speaker 4 (01:49:51):
That's right, yeah, and wreak havoc, they did.

Speaker 1 (01:49:53):
They triggered it.

Speaker 3 (01:49:54):
All right.
Number four this is about aconnected to a time and place.

Speaker 5 (01:50:00):
Okay, Go ahead Raza, All right, so Pirate Looks at 40
.
This is live at Cocua Festival.
It's by Jack Johnson, DaveMatthews and Tim Reynolds.

Speaker 2 (01:50:13):
Yes, I am a pirate.
A few hundred years too late.

Speaker 1 (01:50:23):
Love that song, originally a Jimmy Buffett song.

Speaker 2 (01:50:27):
Shout out Rest in peace.

Speaker 1 (01:50:28):
Rest in peace, jimmy.
Yeah, and that song is aboutbeing out of place, right?
Obviously they're like I'm over40.
I should have been a pirate,should have been born hundreds
of years ago, because that's thelife I live.
And then it looks at the thingsaround us and humanity.

(01:50:54):
We've lifted ourselves and ourvalue up so much and minimize
our impact on others or theearth, and so they sing about
the ocean and the treasures thatit holds that we haven't even
experienced or seen the power ofthe ocean.
It came before us and it'll behere long after we're gone, and

(01:51:15):
for me it provides thisperspective of truly.
Maybe we're not as important aswe individually think we are.

Speaker 4 (01:51:25):
That's all I got.

Speaker 3 (01:51:27):
I love that Nice that's pretty good Love it yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:51:33):
I'm going to say one last thing about this, because I
really this last one I'm goingto have to go back and talk
about goosebumps.
I got goosebumps listening toit and I'm not like an ocean
person, but it kind of remindsme of I know we're wrapping up,
so I'm just going to try andkeep this as short as I can,
that's all right, keep going.

Speaker 3 (01:51:50):
I can cut it out afterwards All the while, jack,
thank you, see Good.
Oh God.

Speaker 5 (01:52:02):
You know, yeah.
So we like a lot of the sort ofyou know, heavier music, blah,
blah, blah.
I've been watching a couple ofdocumentaries on sort of behind
the scenes stuff and how some ofmy favorite bands put stuff
together and this idea of likewriter's block and the lyricist
or the singer is just, you know,he's like yeah.
I'm talking about myself and myemotions, and that's what we're

(01:52:23):
known for, and and I'm out ofideas.
And then I listen to somethinglike this, which is like okay,
fuck you right, it's like you'reone person.
And here these guys are talkingabout not just one person, but
one humanity, and and and, and Imean my God, the creativity

(01:52:45):
that that will that has goneinto the song.
I've heard like four seconds ofit, but where we are in the
context of you know age, andthen we should have been in a
different time, we should havebeen pirates, and what secrets
you know the oceans hold.
And, by the way, you know, theoceans have been here for
billions of years, so I meanheavy metal guys please, yeah,

(01:53:09):
please.

Speaker 3 (01:53:10):
Up, you go, you're fucking lyrical game.
Okay, catch up with DaveMatthews.

Speaker 4 (01:53:13):
Hey Rod is having a moment here.
Yeah, there you go.

Speaker 3 (01:53:17):
Your inspiration for the next Solamente album.
Go back, listen to some JimmyBuffett, some Jack Johnson and
and absolutely yeah, find a new,new perspective there you go,
yeah, awesome.

Speaker 5 (01:53:30):
Yeah so thank you, don Michael, this is awesome.

Speaker 4 (01:53:35):
Jimmy Buffett's music .
This is a beautiful, beautifulsong.
And I just love Jack Johnson's,just just his whole vibe, and
I'm a deep Matthew, so like Ihadn't heard this cover, but I,
I, I for sure will.
Awesome.

Speaker 3 (01:53:48):
They have a whole.
They have a whole album out forthis festival.

Speaker 1 (01:53:52):
Cool, and it's Jack.

Speaker 3 (01:53:54):
Johnson with.

Speaker 2 (01:53:56):
Yeah, so many people come out.

Speaker 3 (01:53:57):
Jackson Brown, eddie Vedder, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:54:03):
Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 1 (01:54:04):
This is the best festival I've ever gone to.
I mean number one.
It's in Hawaii, where I live.

Speaker 5 (01:54:10):
Hawaii.

Speaker 1 (01:54:11):
And you know so getting out there could be very
expensive if you want to go yearby year.
But all of the proceeds arelike given to like cleaning up
the ocean, and Jack Johnson'swife is a teacher on the North
Shore for elementary school.
You know like salt of the earth, yeah, and you know just

(01:54:34):
surfing and and making bananapancakes.

Speaker 4 (01:54:38):
That's right, you know, it's all beautiful yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:54:41):
So just get a different perspective.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:54:45):
David put Jack Johnson on the life in six songs
tour someday.
He starts touring musicfestivals and artists and see
him if he's that on.

Speaker 3 (01:54:54):
There.

Speaker 1 (01:54:55):
Yeah, yeah, he doesn't venture far from Hawaii,
but that's okay.

Speaker 2 (01:54:59):
We'll go to him with one stone.

Speaker 1 (01:55:02):
That's right.
My daughter, my 15 year old,lives there right now in Hawaii.

Speaker 5 (01:55:06):
Oh that's pretty good , I mean Maui.

Speaker 1 (01:55:08):
Maui, maui.
Yeah, we used to have a ferryfrom Oahu to Maui and then the
surfers shut that yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:55:19):
No, I mean Maui just went through like a hell of a
fire and yeah, no, it's likeit's, it's, it's no joke and and
a lot of people are, are, youknow, are suffering because of
it.
I think it's coming back nowand you know, day by day things
are getting better, but yeah wewere in Maui one year ago,

(01:55:40):
September, and it was beautifulI don't.

Speaker 1 (01:55:43):
I'm scared to go back and see it.
You know I've seen thedevastation and it's truly sad,
but they're resilient people.
You know they, they will getthrough it and the weather is
always beautiful.
So even if you have to live inyour lawn for a little bit, man.

Speaker 4 (01:56:03):
I would do it.

Speaker 1 (01:56:05):
I would do it in Hawaii.
If I'm going to become homeless, I'm going to be getting there
as fast as I can, going outthere.
Yeah, I'm just going to becomea pirate on the ocean there you
go there you go Over 40.
Yes.

Speaker 4 (01:56:22):
There's the anthem for it.

Speaker 1 (01:56:24):
Yeah, nice.

Speaker 4 (01:56:26):
Don Michael, thank you so much for for sharing your
story with us.
Thank you all your inspiration,your resilience.
The songs are amazing, likejust thank you so much in.
We want to make sure that thatwe uplift and highlight things
you've got going on.
So in the, in the last coupleof minutes we have left I know
you have a nonprofit Tell uswhat you've got going on that

(01:56:48):
people might be interested inand and, if they want to, how
they can get in touch with youabout it.

Speaker 1 (01:56:53):
Yeah, so I, I strictly help veterans and their
families.
I don't charge them a thing.
I do like discharge upgrades,va compensation, second looks,
don't take any of the money I've.
I took a two-time purple heartrecipient from 10% to 100%

(01:57:13):
disability, which you knowbreaks my heart.
What the VA does, you know.
But these, this changes livesand that's what is meaningful to
me.
It's it's the work I can dobecause, like that's my niche
Military law.
I I've done hundreds of courtmarshals, defense work, and I do

(01:57:39):
it all free of charge.
I currently have a number ofclients who are either family
members or victims or activeduty personnel who you know are
struggling, can't find a goodlawyer, and you know lawyers who
have financial gain as theirtheir goal won't do well for the

(01:58:07):
people who truly deserve it.
So I get to pick and choose mycases, but I put myself all in
and I was.
I was talking to one before andas soon as I got it off with you
I'm going to call her back.
She's in Georgia.
She's a female who's beenracially discriminated against

(01:58:30):
by command and through theinvestigative process.
It's easy to do that to useyour power against those who
have less power, and oftentimesthe motives are not pure.
So those are the things that Iwant to get on.
So I mean, I can do a litany ofwork regarding military things,

(01:58:52):
but I prefer to do it free ofcharge if I can, because that's
what they deserve.
You know, give back to thosewho served and and are being
wronged.

Speaker 5 (01:59:05):
Yeah, nice All right.

Speaker 4 (01:59:08):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:59:09):
Don Michael, thank you so much for for being on.
We thank you, I think, a numberof times, but that just goes to
show how how much we've enjoyedsharing in your story and, like
Carolina said earlier, thankyou for trusting us with it and
this has just been, yeah, really, just really great.

Speaker 1 (01:59:30):
This has been a good evening for me.
Thank you so much, awesome.

Speaker 3 (01:59:35):
Thank you All right, everybody that does it for this
episode of a life in six songs.
Like and subscribe and tellyour friends about it.
Anyone you think could benefitfrom hearing some of these
stories Spread the word let'slet's do what we can for people.
Like Don Michael said, let'shelp those who need it, and with

(01:59:56):
that we will see you next time.

All Episodes

Ep. 8 - From ‘Thunder Jeep’ to Turning the Page: A Story of Determination, Overcoming, and Optimism

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

24/7 News: The Latest

Crime Junkie

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep. 8 - From ‘Thunder Jeep’ to Turning the Page: A Story of Determination, Overcoming, and Optimism