Girls Do F*cking Drum: Genevieve Wynand On Doing The Next Big Scary Thing

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
And it was like okay, I was 11 and now I'm 46.
That's 35 years.
Like I, it's got to be 35 years, cause if I wait a year and if
I wait a year it's a year.
I'm not drumming Like I have tohave to do this and then maybe
by the time I'm, you know, 50,I'll like which I can't even
believe.
I'm saying that age it's likekind of astonishing, but it
really is never too late.
Do the next big scary thing.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
That's what I would say.
Host David Reese, I'm your host.

Speaker 3 (01:05):
David Reese, and I'm joined by my co-hosts, carolina
and Raza.
Hey there, hello.
On each episode, we embark on atrip with our guests to find
those songs that are stuck to uslike audible tattoos, that tell
the story of who we are andwhere we've been, to help us
figure out where we're going.
It's a life story told throughsix songs.
We come to these conversationswith love, kindness and

(01:28):
curiosity to counter theprevalence of hate, anger and
judgment we see in the world.
Our guiding view, with a nod toTed Lasso, is be curious, not
judgmental.
We hope that by listening tothese stories, you can bring
more love, kindness andcuriosity into your own life.
With that, let's go have alisten together.
Our guest today is GenevieveWynan, a writer and editor

(01:51):
living in Coquitlam, a suburb ofVancouver, british Columbia,
canada.
She additionally works for theFederation of BC Writers,
supporting other writers withtheir craft.
A mom to an 18 and 23-year, in2022, genevieve began to learn
the drums and participate in amonthly drum circle.
Currently, she is co-writing abraided memoir motivational book

(02:13):
with her drum teacher.
Our paths crossed when I cameacross an article she wrote for
the blog Introvert Deer, whichis about how learning an
instrument is great forintroverts, and I said we need
to get her on the show.
And so, genevieve, welcome toLife in Six Songs.

Speaker 1 (02:28):
Thank you, thank you all so much for having me here.
I'm so excited to get a chanceto talk with you.

Speaker 3 (02:33):
That's great, we're glad to have you on.
So before we get into youractual six songs, we like to
start with just kind of like awarm-up question, kind of a you
know 10,000-foot view questionof you know, when you think
about it.
Just briefly, what role doesmusic play in your life?
How do you see music in yourlife?

Speaker 1 (02:52):
I think lately it's become more of a companion than
it ever used to be.
I think growing up I wasdefinitely like the top 40 kid,
you know.
Whatever was playing on theradio, that was what I was
listening to.
And I think since learning aninstrument, I'm leaning into
music differently.
I know we'll probably talkabout a lot of stuff, but I also
have gone through a journey ofhealing my nervous system over

(03:13):
the past few years, which makeslistening to music so much more
available to me.
So, yeah, I kind of feel likeI'm at a new beginning.
Definitely, my family is likequestioning some of the choices,
like they never thought theywere going to have, like a metal
mom, you know it was like so.
So, yeah, things are changing,but it definitely is a companion
.

Speaker 3 (03:32):
That's awesome.
I love that, and it explainswhy we wanted to have you on the
show, Cause that's that's whatit's all about, about how music
is that companion for us, andthat's what we're going to get
into with your six songs, seeinghow it's been there throughout
your life.
And so with that, let's diveright in and get into your first
song.
So for this first one, you knowwhat was a memorable time when

(03:53):
you were first exposed to a bandor artist music.
You know what was the song orband and who exposed you to it.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
Yeah, that's a great question.
So it was definitely a break onthrough by the doors.
It was my dad, I was probablyabout seven or eight and it just
cracked open an alternateuniverse.

Speaker 3 (04:13):
That's awesome.
Let's take a quick listen andthen we'll chat on the backside.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
You know, the day destroys the night, night
divides the day.
Try to run, try to hide, breakon through to the other side.
Break on through to the otherside.
Break on through to the otherside.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
Yeah, it's hard for me to not just hear the drums
now.
Now, like I have to go back tomy like little seven year old
mind.

Speaker 3 (04:51):
Oh, that's awesome, yeah, so what was it like?
What is it like hearing it now?
And then, yeah, tell us aboutwhen you were seven and hearing
it set the scene for us.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
Yeah, the seven year old self definitely still comes
back.
My brother he's about threeyears younger than I am.
We were in the living room andmy dad he's like you've got to
listen to this song, and I don'tknow if he got new speakers.
I don't know what the recordplayer vibe was, I just remember
he put this on and he turned itso loud.
He wasn't a music guy.

(05:21):
He wasn't a music guy.
You know, music was in thehouse.
I mean it was.
It was around.
There'd be, maybe it was likean eight track on in his old
Datsun or something when we'd bedriving.
But this was like my brotherand I got the message like we
need to sit down and we need tolisten to this and there's a
reason that this is important tohim.
And he put it on and I didn'tunderstand it at all.

(05:44):
I mean this is like this is notbaby Beluga, like we are moving
from childhood into anotherrealm and he just had this, like
he was transported, he was goneand and I was kind of
confronting the sound it's veryraw.
I don't want to say it'sdisjointed, but it's.
There's something so likepiecey and chunky about it, but

(06:07):
it all works together and themessage in my mind, in my child
mind, I could actually picturesomething breaking.
But to watch a parentexperience something and want
you to experience something thatyou're trying to reach and you
can't, it's like it's a veryinteresting experience for a
child.

Speaker 3 (06:28):
Did, um, did your dad like say anything about it?
After you listened Like, did helike kind of talk about it, or
was it just like you're going toexperience this and it was all
just about the experience of it?

Speaker 1 (06:40):
He might have.
I don't recall I mean, I reallywas.
It was like a portal to anotherrealm, but I wasn't quite ready
for it.
But it did teach me thatsomething existed, literally,
like on the other side, likethat's the thing.
I think there's something aboutthe lyrics too.
Like it's not just the music,it's like the lyrics and the
vocals and you can hear likehe's not not, like there's

(07:05):
something going on, you're beinginvited into another place.
It's a lot for a seven-year-old, it's a lot for a 49-year-old.
Like I'm listening to it nowand I'm I can anchor on the
drums.
Like okay, what's going onthere?
Like, okay, he's influenced byjazz, like I can tell.
Like there's like some thingsgoing on, but I don't, I can't
land.
I can't land in this song right, I'm sure.

Speaker 4 (07:27):
And music like that, I'm sure, through the years,
like every time you hear it andyou're a little bit older, in a
different place, like wholeother layer washes through of
the song or of the music it does.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
And and I was thinking about that too, I know,
I know that you know the musicwas in cycles and we all kind of
come to music at differentpoints in our lives.
And I definitely re-encounteredthe doors when I was a teenager
.
You know you'd be at parties,everybody would be getting
stoned and like the doors wouldbe on and it was the same thing
because, like I was way tooparanoid to like do drugs in
high school, like I did not.

(08:02):
Again, it was like there's thisother realm, like people are
experiencing something that I'mnot a part of and they're having
fun, I think.
Like it's like are theyenjoying themselves?
And it was just.
Sometimes things are adjacentto us.
If they can't be fully insideus, we can almost touch them.

Speaker 3 (08:22):
And I think I felt that experience as a teenager,
with that music, with my stonerfriends like I, I love them, and
they were somewhere that Icouldn't be yeah, yeah, and it
kind of does that thing of likeyou know, this being the first
song and um, we're talking aboutand it's this song from when

(08:44):
you were like seven and we, weseem, with so many conversations
we have on this show, thesethese sort of early musical
moments and what they do to you,either in a restrictive sense
or in an eyeopening sense, right, some people have talked about
growing up very religious andhaving very restrictive, you
know, music in the house.
Right.
Here's something where your,your dad, is introducing

(09:05):
something to you outside of thatright, something, something you
know on the other side.
In that sense, and so it's likeeven if you're not like, this
is my new music and I love thisand I'm going to be jamming to
it every day at seven or eightyears old, um which like rock on
if you're seven years old right, right I want to meet you right

(09:26):
, what kind of music do you like?
The Doors, it's like badass Wow.
Yeah, for real.
But it's this thing of like,exactly like the song is saying
right, there's something on theother side and you can break
into it, and you were being madeaware of it in some sense.

Speaker 1 (09:42):
Yeah, it's a real gift actually.
Actually, whenever I thinkwe're exposed to something, I
think as children.
I think children do a reallygood job of kind of buffering
themselves too, like they youthink about, like when you have,
like the talk with the kids,like only so much goes in as
they're ready for it to go in,and maybe music is a little bit
like that too.
It's like you will take whatyou can receive and you'll

(10:04):
protect yourself maybe a littlebit.
I mean, I was a kid that alwaysasked the big questions, so it
doesn't really surprise me thatI had this reaction.

Speaker 5 (10:13):
But, yeah, yeah, I was going to ask you about that.
I was thinking, you know, Iwonder if you can compare.
You know, listening to thissong for the first time at age
seven, and obviously it was asignificant you know moment for
a seven-year-old, right, andyou're just like, oh my god,
this is the coolest thing ever Ididn't think coolest, I thought
what the hell I mean.

Speaker 1 (10:34):
Now I think it's the coolest thing ever.
Right, right interesting,interesting.

Speaker 5 (10:38):
Yeah, in some sense no, so I I think that was my
sort of point of curiosity waswas you know?
Yeah, you know, you, you as aseven-year-old listening to this
but then many years later,coming back to it and going,
whoa, because some of the themesare still there, right, like
breaking open, exposing tosomething, getting exposed to

(10:59):
something new and different anddifferent.
But you know, as aseven-year-old, versus, you know
with your family, but thenversus.
You know as a, I guess, maybe ateen or as an adult, um, and
you know with the whole sort oflike the stoner aspects, like a
daily aspect, um, so, yeah, somaybe you know um, how does how
does that compare?
How, how do you sort of um, uh,you know, weigh both of those?

Speaker 1 (11:27):
That's another great question.
But when you were asking it,you know, what I kept thinking
was, like you made me realizelike I think I was afraid, like
I think I was, I think anxietyand fear.
I think there's likeself-protection maybe going on
Like are you ready, you know,are you ready, what are you
ready?
You know, are you ready, whatare you ready for?

(11:48):
And actually, yeah, I think asa kid and as a teen, like
definitely fear of what's on theother side was definitely
self-protective when you don'tunderstand.
Yeah, I don't understand thisthing.
Like yeah.

Speaker 5 (12:00):
Right.

Speaker 3 (12:01):
Right.

Speaker 1 (12:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (12:02):
And that's.
And that's interesting too,because so often when people
talk about music and a band theymay like they may have heard it
earlier in their life, but alot of times people will
describe it as I wasn't readyfor it yet.
Right right, kind of getting atthat like and really kind of

(12:25):
like explaining a little bit ofwhat that might mean, like, not
like I wasn't ready for, in thesense of like I don't know if I
can kind of go there Right, I'mworried, what might happen or
something like that.

Speaker 1 (12:34):
And when you see a parent, I guess that's
interesting too, right, like yousee a parent who's obviously
transported.
You see friends who aretransported.
You see people that are kind oflike leaning into this, like
experience that they can't helpbut fall into.
It's so all encompassing and ofcourse we know music does that.
When that song I mean, it'ssomething that happens, that is

(12:56):
so it transports you and ittransforms you.
And when we don't have accessto that experience that we see
in somebody that we care about,maybe there's a little bit of
distance from them too.
Actually, wow, this is deep,you guys.
This is just song one yeah,yeah, for real it's a good

Speaker 5 (13:18):
song.
It's a good song to go deep on.
Start with, yeah, gets us rightand I I'm.

Speaker 1 (13:22):
I did not smoke any weed before we started, so we're
obviously doing fine.

Speaker 3 (13:27):
We're breaking through just on our own, just on
our own.
Absolutely.
One more question just beforewe move on to your next song.
We were talking about kind ofthe song and the experience of
it, but I was curious did itaffect how you viewed your dad
in that moment too?
Because?
You said he kind of put it on,and obviously this is something

(13:49):
he likes, so he's in the zonedoing his thing.
Did that have some effect onyou too, seeing him enjoy this
or be transported by it?

Speaker 1 (13:59):
It did, it did.
But you literally nailed itwith saying, in this moment, and
I think it was really for thatmoment alone.
I don't recall it lasting.
I mean, I can remember, youknow, when I was old enough to
sit in the front seat of theDatsun and I'd want to turn up
the radio and it was like no, Iwant to put on my station, no,

(14:19):
like it.
But it was in that moment.
There was something about thatsong that he wanted to
communicate to us and actually,you know what, maybe I let him
down Cause I, just like you said, I wasn't ready.
I don't remember.
I mean, I remember him actuallyplaying some Johnny Cash for my

(14:41):
kids when they were little, sothe experience repeated, where
he had a moment where he's like,okay, kids, like grandpa's
going to teach you something,but I think it was too early for
it to land with them too.

Speaker 3 (14:51):
Right, right, right.
And I think too in those timesbecause you know we talked a lot
about the show of like having asong, you know, giving a song
to someone to say here's what Ifeel.
I can't really express itmyself, but here's how I feel,
and that might be what he wasdoing in that moment of just

(15:11):
like I just want you to see this, and I think it's not a matter
of you have to become the Doorsfan as the child, but just the
playing of it, I think, is partof that.
This is something of me.

Speaker 1 (15:20):
You don't have to do anything with it, and what a
gift, right?

Speaker 4 (15:24):
That's a gift you don't have to do anything with
it.
And what a gift, right, likethat's right, yeah, right, I, I
think also so.
So, like, par for the course ofparenting, of like, I just want
to teach you something, thislittle person that I love, and
the little person's like go away, I'm not ready, you know, but
you're like I'm gonna give it toyou any, am I gonna expose you
to it anyway?
And sometimes we do things withour kids that we think like,

(15:45):
are like nothing, and then yearslater, they're like do you
remember that random car ride orthat random song Like that?
You know, it was a huge corememory for me.
And you're like what, what?
You were listening.

Speaker 5 (15:55):
Cause, in the moment it looked like you could could
have you know couldn't care atall, and I mean really like God

(16:18):
bless the musicians who give usthis opportunity, this
vocabulary that we can use tocommunicate with one another,
sometimes when we can't even putit into words, like I would not
have had an experience with mydad like that.
Had there not mean, you know,this is Jim Morrison we're
talking about.
This is not, you know, the likeblues clues or whatever.
I mean he is one of the mostbrilliant lyricists of all time.
So kudos to your dad for atleast you know I mean.
He's given you the best of thebest here.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
Set the bar right.

Speaker 5 (16:40):
Set the bar dad Absolutely Go dad man.

Speaker 3 (16:43):
Yeah, and that's what know this, this.
Just hearing this song again.
You know I grew up my dad was abig doors fan.
I, I mean, this could have beenmy story just as as well, like
him putting it on the right,like you're the way you
described.
It is mine exactly the same,okay, and I just you know in in
getting the clip ready for thesong, for the episode and stuff.
Just hearing the song again,it's just sort of like it's

(17:05):
amazing how kind of timeless itis, no matter, when you first
hear this.
If you, if you played this forsomeone right now and it was the
first time they've ever heardthe doors, they would be like
what is this?
It's just something different.
Yeah, totally All right, well,let's different.

(17:27):
Yeah, totally All right.
Well, let's move us along.
Great first song, great way toget us going here.
And so you know we alreadytalked in that first song a lot
about how music transports usright.
It transports us right back towhen you were seven.
You know, for this next songwe're going to specifically get
into that.
And so you know what is a songthat when you hear it, you are
instantly transported to aspecific time and or place.

(17:47):
And where does that song takeyou?

Speaker 1 (17:49):
Okay, so different living room we'd moved, so I was
, so I'm now about 11.
And 100% Dancing Queen by ABBA.
It was the first time I wasallowed to be home alone Again.
I think it was about 11.
Sunken living room, 80s, vibe.
Parents left and I put therecord on the record player this

(18:10):
time and I just danced.

Speaker 3 (18:13):
Nice, let's take a listen.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
ABBA Dancing Queen you can just have a good time of
your life.
You see that girl watch thatscene digging the dancing queen.

Speaker 3 (18:37):
What is it like hearing it now?

Speaker 1 (18:39):
Happy joy.
I mean, how do you not startmoving right?
It's timeless.
Like I was thinking like, sowhat was this?
Like the seventies, theeighties, when was, but when was
dancing queen?
And it's like it's always, andand what's so cool about it is
it's also for me now.
So it takes me back to when Iwas 11, but like, bless the

(19:02):
universe, like I am able todance to this song now because,
um, I know, david, we had alittle bit of a chat you know in
in anticipation of some of this, and so it got me thinking, um,
this song is very now for me.
But it takes me back thenbecause I, for all of last year
I was like I got to dance, likewhere do you go when you're in
your forties to dance?
Like a wedding, like I don'tknow anybody getting married.

(19:24):
Like a banquet I'm not going toa banquet Like, okay, my living
or my gas.
I've been known to like dancein like the stores and like
mortify my children.
Like I get a little bit toomovementy.
But last year I encountered acolleague we reconnected and it

(19:48):
was right at the end of the yearand she was telling me she goes
dancing at this, like I guessit's like a club down in
Vancouver.
She goes once a month and she'sgoing through a big transition
in her life.
Last year was a big year for me, from start to finish, just so
much happened and it was like Iended the year with this
beautiful human saying like,come, dance with me.

(20:10):
And because this song istimeless, because every DJ is
going to play it for all time tomake the people happy.
It comes on every time and so Iam, and everybody sings it so
loud, like I saw Carolina moving, like everybody starts.
Everybody's singing,everybody's moving, everybody is
transported, whether they're,you know, 25, 35, 45, 75.

(20:31):
They are that little kid.
That's like free and justdancing and it's beautiful, so
that's why that's one of mysongs.

Speaker 4 (20:43):
Yeah, Like I'll say, I'm not an ABBA fan, but this is
.
But this is one of those songsthat, like I don't know, you're
just compelled to like sing itand dance to it and just kind of
like freely move about.
You know, there's justsomething about it.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
I mean there have been roller skates involved.
I will say sorry, but beforebefore the Home Alone time.
I mean there's just somethingabout it.
I mean there have been rollerskates involved.
I will say sorry, but beforethe Home Alone time.
I mean there was definitelylike roller skates in the garage
.
You know, you can move in anyform at any time.
Anything that you're doingyou're driving, you're chopping
vegetables just be careful.
Like you can dance at anymoment with this song.

Speaker 5 (21:24):
Yeah, absolutely Absolutely, and it's such a good
good Raza, I was just going tosay this is one of those songs
that you've heard everywhereother than just like on the
radio.
I mean, you know whether it'sat a club or in movie sequences
or anything like that I've heard.
You know this is obviously likeone of the greatest songs of
all time.
Yeah, or anything like that.
This is obviously one of thegreatest songs of all time.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
Yes, yeah, we've heard this.
I need to know your DancingQueen moment, raza.

Speaker 5 (21:49):
Oh, my Dancing Queen moment.
Oh to tell, actually it wasvery, very recent and I heard
about so, okay, so, funny enough, the word Abba.
Abba means dad in Urdu, so I'mfrom Pakistan originally and so

(22:11):
at home we speak Urdu and youknow, with my dad we speak in
Urdu and Punjabi Anyway, but heused to have a whole collection
of like cassettes and recordsyou know vinyl, back in the day,
and I remember being like fouryears old seeing this, this
cassette hand.
You know it was like a bootleghand, handmade, you know
playlist, and it kept it said,you know, abba on it and I would
always say, oh, abba, that'slike, as in, that's my dad's,

(22:34):
which it was, but the band'sname was abba.
So that's my, my, my likeoriginal story.
But flash forward to like Iwant to say just a couple months
ago I went to see opeth, whichis a swedish death metal band,
um and uh, their lead singer andof course abba, you know so
danceable right, right, no, buthere.

(22:55):
But here's the kicker.
So you know the connection iscoming here we go swedish um uh,
yeah, abba is also a swed,swedish band and and anyway.
So their singer, michael, hasthis habit of having like a nice
rapport with the audience andhe'll tell stories and you know,

(23:15):
he'll kind of just like fuckwith them and stuff and tune his
guitar in between songs andthings like that, and anyway.
So the night is winding downand someone you know someone in
the audience just yells ABBA,for no reason Because it's a
Swedish band, of course and likewithout missing a beat, michael
tells like an amazing storyabout meeting I'm forgetting

(23:39):
which one of the band members itwas, but the original, you know
dancing queen, you know hishero, and he told like this
really sort of heartfelt storyabout meeting her for the first
time and being completelystarstruck and everything.
So yeah, so it's just like fullcircle there but this.

Speaker 1 (23:54):
You know what that's so beautiful about music?
I mean all these differentgenres, but like the fundamental
a musician has for anothermusician, the way that they're
influenced, the way that thiswhole sort of thing grows and
speaks to you know, music speaksto other music.
It's, it's beautiful.

Speaker 5 (24:11):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 4 (24:13):
The appreciation musicians have for others, even
if even if it's not their genre.

Speaker 5 (24:19):
Yeah, yeah, it's really cool.
Yeah, absolutely.
That's where music appreciationreally starts to seem more and
more like art, because you can'thave just one pigeonholed idea.
I mean, you can, people canlike whatever they want to, but
really when you start taking astep back and are able to sort
of filter out different genresand different flavors and and

(24:43):
you know appreciate somethingcompletely unrelated as much as
your like favorite drummer oryour favorite guitar solo or
whatever, then you're like allright, cool, you're appreciating
it for just the art factor ofit, and that that's where it
really becomes fun.

Speaker 3 (24:56):
Yeah yeah, and I mean that's, that's like what we're
trying to do here with theseconversations on this show is,
you know, I had said when wewere, you know, getting this
going is like I grew up amusician but like hated so many
music conversations because itwas always just like let me tell
, let me tell you why the bandyou like sucks and the band I
like is the really the best one.
And I'm like missing the pointyeah, you can have those

(25:19):
discussions, like we said.
Like rosa, you know who's thebest drummer and who do you like
and you can kind of say why andstuff.
But like what you're bringingup there, but both you know,
with the story of ABBA and theyou know effect it had on you,
you know at a young, putting iton, blasting it their first time
home alone and dancing to itand then getting back out to the
club and dancing with it again,and then Raza's story about you

(25:46):
know, opeth, lead singer,telling the story about abba and
whatnot, and is that you knowit's.
It's not just about, like, whatyou might listen to, but what
you appreciate, like raza said,and realizing that like, even if
you're not putting on abba allthe time, you can appreciate
what it was there doing and howit created some of the other
stuff we have.

Speaker 4 (26:01):
So, um, yeah, yeah, right, I think this song doesn't
matter as much, as this is thesong that, like you, associate
with a rite of passage which islike independence for the first
time.

Speaker 1 (26:17):
Yes, and it's yeah, it is for the first time and now
like so my kids are grown, butit's like you know, I'm at a
stage of life when you say thatit's like of course, like of
course.
It resonates now because it isas hard as it can be to watch
your little babies grow up andas amazing it is, as it is to
see them make their way in theworld and be independent.
It's really remarkable when youcome back to yourself at a

(26:40):
whole new stage and it is like anew kind of freedom to dance.

Speaker 3 (26:48):
Right, right, and it just shows, like, why, like you
said, you go to the club andeveryone's belting out the
lyrics to the song when it comeson, but for you, because of
this history and this story youhave with it, it hits in a
different way, right?
And so if all someone sees islike you, like ABBA, and that's

(27:08):
what they want to focus on, it'slike you're missing that it's
part of me Right.
You missed the point.
Like this was the song you puton when you were home alone,
that first time, in dance too.
But it could have beensomething else, right, it's not
like you know, and then youmight have had some other
connection with it too.
So this thing of like it's not,this objective thing, like

(27:29):
we're all there, able to choosefrom every music that was out
there and that's what you chose.
So let me tell you why you chosewrong, or something like that
it's like no, these are thesongs that just happened to be
the one that was was there.
So yeah, yeah absolutely, yeah,I love that too um, the, the,
putting it on, um and and kindof blasting it as as your first

(27:51):
time home alone and how, like.
I think that's a story so manypeople can connect with, like
that's one of the things you dowhen you're home alone for that
first time.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
It is, it is and it's it's.
It's interesting that that'sthe impulse like it because,
again, like it's interestingthat that's the impulse Like it
because, again, like it's not.
I know a lot of people thatgrew up in like musical
households where they had musicon all the time and it was,
there was a, there were constantsoundtracks to their lives.
I don't remember that being thecase for me, so it's
interesting to think that that'slike the impulse to like that.

(28:18):
That was the sort of thing Iwould relate to having a freedom
moment.
It's interesting to think ofthat little girl, that that's
like what she chose to do.
Um, and again, you're making meactually think about these
things and appreciate them in abit of a different way, like I'd
never really thought about that, like of all the things I could
have done, that that was what.
I did.

Speaker 3 (28:38):
Right, you could have raided the liquor cabinet or
slept in.
Your parent, you know, jumpedon your parents' bed or you know
whatever Right right, but youwent to music, which I think is
one of those things that'stelling, and especially, you
know, with your drum set behindyou and you know the music
that's part of you like therewas something there there was.

Speaker 1 (28:58):
And again, when you asked me at the beginning about
like music, I didn't know thatthat part of me actually existed
until recently.
So this is just such a blessingto be able to like kind of
think back on my life and belike no music was always there.
It always was a companion.

Speaker 3 (29:11):
Yeah, which is a perfect segue into our next
question.
And song here, Um, because youknow music.
We've already showed how musicis, can be there at points and
can mark things, and so you knowwhat was a song that was part
of a weighty transition in yourlife and what was that
transition.

Speaker 1 (29:30):
Yeah, so about two years ago 2022, I was just
driving alone and More Than aFeeling by Boston came on the
radio and it just filled thetruck, filled my soul, and then
some things happened after that.

Speaker 4 (29:53):
All right, let's take a listen and then we'll hear
what, what the transition was.

(30:14):
I love this song so much, sucha good song.

Speaker 1 (30:16):
I'm actually going to start crying.
I guess there's only so muchyou can play to actually get
away with it.
We can't listen to the wholesong, can we?

Speaker 2 (30:26):
Oh right, right, For the live thing, live thing.
Clip it down a little bit, butokay yeah, but we're good.

Speaker 3 (30:30):
Yeah, it's just to give us a taste here of no, no,
I know I could listen all it'ssuch a good song absolutely so
that's about actually all that's.

Speaker 1 (30:40):
That's all.
It took actually was about thatlong of listening to the song.
I was about that far into thesong and it was the drums, the
drums when they came in, I wasand I will start crying.
I was instantly transported andfilled up with.

(31:05):
When I was, I guess I was about10, 11 years old grade six band
.
So I grew up on VancouverIsland until I was about 11, 12
years old and there in theelementary school I went to
grade seven and so it wasmandatory for grade six and
grade seven.
Everybody did band and we wentlike I guess that was the end of
our grade five year orsomething, and we went to like
the senior high school andlisten to the concert band play

(31:28):
and we were to get all inspired,like what's the instrument that
you want?
And I remember sitting and Iremember the drums, like I just
I remember I felt them, I feltit in my chest, I felt it in my
gut and I knew, like I knew thatthere was something about that
that was like mine.
And so going back to you knowthe elementary school and you

(31:49):
pick you know three instrumentsyou want to play, you make the
list and I was like I needed oneand it was drums, that was it,
top of the list.
I don't know what I put on therest of the list.
And I can remember when we wentinto the portable for a band
and we went in and we found outwhat we were going to be playing

(32:10):
and I was I mean, I didn't evenknow the word stoked then.
But like that's what girlsdon't drum.
And they gave me the trumpetand I'm like, what kind of like

(32:33):
how?
That is not feminine to me,honey.
Like this is not my instrument,what do you think?
Like this is not.
And the two Jeffs in grade sixthey got to be the drummers.
We had two and that was it.
Like that, that was it.
And you know, fast forward acouple of years.
So when we moved over to themainland, there was no program.

(32:53):
I moved over here for gradeseven, there was no music
program, but then for juniorhigh so junior high would have
been grade eight, nine and ten Idecided to join band and so for
grade eight and grade nine Idid.
I made some amazing friends,had some amazing opportunities,
fell in love with a drummerbecause you know, that's what
you do when you're right Right.
But never played, never thoughtof it again.
I never thought of it formyself, I never thought of it

(33:15):
for myself.
It just went underground.
And then, when I was 46 and Iwas driving along and this song
came on, I was like I have tolean in.
Like I am, I am terrified aboutwhat this means, but I have to
lean in because I'm way moreterrified if I don't because I'm
46 and this is it.

(33:38):
So I was, I think I was headedto the grocery store.
I mean, this is what you dowhen you have like teenagers and
you know you have free time,you go to the grocery store.
And I was like you do when youhave like teenagers and you know
you have free time, you go tothe grocery store.
And I was like no, I was like Igotta, I can't.
I have to be among drums.
I have to figure this out.
I don't know what the fuck I'mdoing, but I have to do
something.
And should I keep going?
Is this like story?

Speaker 3 (33:54):
yes, yes, yeah, we have questions.

Speaker 1 (33:58):
I mean, we know we know where it ends right right
right.

Speaker 4 (34:02):
Right for those listening not watching there's a
, there's a massive drum setbehind her massive.

Speaker 1 (34:08):
Bless your heart, carolina.
I love that.
It's.
It's enough, um.
So, yeah, so I was driving, Iwas driving along this road.
It was a beautiful road, treelined and and it literally would
spit me out like it was.
It was one of those momentswhere it was like I could go
anywhere.
And we are really fortunate.
We have an amazing, amazingmusic store in a city close by.
It's called Long and McQuaid.

(34:28):
I think they're only in Canada,I'm not sure, but like super,
shout out to Long and McQuaidand I was like I got to go, I
got it, I got to go and and Idid, and I and I went in.
It's a beautiful, relatively newstore.
You walk in.
There's electric guitarseverywhere.
I mean, if you're a musician,you can, you can actually pull
them off the shelf and you canplay them.
I mean, everybody is fantasticand helpful and I but that was

(34:48):
not what I was there for I waslike beeline to like the drum
section, and there was this kitset up at the front and I still
remember it and I took a pictureof it and it was like I think
it was um, it was black and itwas backlit with this green
light and I'm like green, okay,okay, but I was like I don't
know, like I don't know, I don'tknow anything, I know nothing.

(35:09):
And I was walking through and Iwas like really trying hard not
to cry and I just I think of it.
And you mentioned that you knowI'm working on this book with
my drum teacher and I think ofit as doing the next big scary
thing.
And that was what this wholething was a sequence of.
It was constantly doing thenext big scary thing.
So the first big scary thingwas to actually just acknowledge
like I have to do something.
And then it was actuallygetting to the store, and then

(35:29):
it was walking into the storeand then a really sweet
salesperson came up to me andhe's like, can I help you?
And I'm like I don't fuckingknow, like can you.
And then I start, start like I'mtelling him the whole story,
like everything I told you guys,and I'm crying.
He's kind of looking at me likewell, it's drum month, we have

(35:51):
some deals.

Speaker 3 (35:53):
Let me tell you about our specials.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
Oh bless your young heart, like this middle-aged
lady having a moment in yourstore.
But it was, it was drum month.
I, you know, I was was like doyou do lessons?
They do.
They have a wonderful lessoncenter upstairs.
I got the brochure and again, Ijust kept leaning in doing the
next big scary thing.
I had no clue where it wasgonna go, but I I again like I

(36:16):
knew if I didn't, and I'm likereally weird about like numbers
and things too and it was like,okay, I was 11 and now I'm 46,
that's 35 years.
I it's got to be 35 years,because if I wait a year and if
I wait a year it's a year.
I'm not drumming like I have tohave to do this and then maybe
by the time I'm, you know, 50,I'll like which I can't even
believe.
I'm saying that age.
It's like kind of astonishing,but it really is never too late.

(36:38):
That's what I would say Always.
And I made no commitments inthat moment.
Came home, looked at thebrochure, I found the drum
teacher that I started with wasincredible, a professional
musician.
I studied with him for a yearand it got me started.
It was a really fantastic wayto get started.

(37:03):
It was a very comfortable place, but I knew at the end that I
needed to do the next big scarything and my drum teacher, ryan,
is not scary at all he is awonderful musician, but I knew I
was going to have to do somework.
He's a professional musician aswell.
He has been a teacher for years.

(37:28):
There's a program called Drumeioand I saw it right.
So he's got a program on there.
And that's how I knew he was mynext teacher is because he was
explaining what he does with hisstudents and and I was like
holy shit, and this guy is rightthere, like I can take lessons
with this guy right there and hewill get me the.
It's a vocabulary of movementwith drums, right?
I think David knows what I'mtalking about.

(37:48):
It's this vocabulary ofmovement and I wanted this in my
body.
And the first time I sat at thekit in the lesson center and
all I read, I rented anelectronic kit because that
seemed accessible, like at thebeginning, but I didn't know
what the it.
It was so foreign, right, butit was like, but I'm home, I'm
home.
So, that's my.
More than a feeling song, itwas.

(38:09):
More than a feeling, it was.

Speaker 5 (38:12):
Action, that's awesome.

Speaker 1 (38:15):
That's the story and it changed everything.
It changed everything in mylife from that moment because of
what I began to learn aboutmyself and demons that I had to
wrestle with, that I didn't evenknow lived inside of me that
would take a couple of years tocome out.

Speaker 3 (38:32):
Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you so much for sharingthat story.

Speaker 1 (38:37):
Thanks for sticking around.
And now we come to the end.
There's no more time, right,we're out of time.
It's a life in three songs.

Speaker 3 (38:43):
This time.
That's fine there's no moretime.
Right, we're out of time.
It's a life in three songs thistime.
No, um, that's no, because thisis this was I mean.
Um, like I said at thebeginning, right, it's this
story that you had wrote aboutthat.
When I saw that, that thatarticle, um, you shared this
exact story and I, I was readingit and I was like I'm reaching
out right now, because this isthis is like exactly what this

(39:04):
show is about in these thesestories, because it's not just
about let's talk about ourfavorite songs and that's it.
But it's these ways these musichas an effect on our life,
either, driving it right.
This song wasn't just there inthe background when something
happened.
This song was the propellantright, it was everything.
It's what did it.

Speaker 1 (39:26):
And there's no way I could have known.
Like there is, there was right.
You don't know, right.

Speaker 4 (39:31):
Right, right.
I think what blows me away, whyI love this story so much, is
lots of us are on healingjourneys, right, and so many of
us yep, like our soul talks tous and then we're like no, no,
not now.
No, it's not a good time.
No, there's no money, no, youknow, whatever it is.

(39:59):
And so, like I had not read thestory I did not, I was not
familiar, I'm hearing it for thefirst time and to hear that
your soul spoke to you and youdid not go to the grocery store
and you went to the music store.

Speaker 1 (40:08):
I was like I can go to the grocery store.

Speaker 4 (40:10):
Another day Right, Like you listened and so many
people don't and like look howyour life has changed Everything
.

Speaker 1 (40:20):
It was so loud and I've had.
I call them.
Whatever your spirituality is,faith is I.
I've had these God momentsbefore, so I've had practice.
I've had these God momentsbefore, so I've had practice.
I've had practice, not a lot.
There's a handful of times andwhen you know, you know, and to
have and to free fall into thatspace is terrifying.

(40:43):
But, like you say, if your soulis talking to you, it's
probably telling you that notlistening that's the scarier
thing you know, because it's notgoing to tell you to do the
brave thing.
If you don't have that in you,you really, really, really have
it in you.
You really have it in you tolean into the next big scary
thing.
I really believe every singleone of us because it's because

(41:06):
you're leaning in, single one ofus, because it's because you're
leaning in, you're leaning in.
I did not.
I did not start where I am now.
Then I mean it was literallywalking into a store and just
being among the thing I neededto be among yeah absolutely yeah
, no, it's go ahead, rosa, I wasjust gonna say um, um.

Speaker 5 (41:27):
I was listening to the story and and then, david, I
listened to your comment andthis idea of compulsion, being
compelled to do something, keptresonating in my head.
And then, right when you saidcomparing people's
spiritualities, I was thinkingwait a second, where have I
heard that before?
I was thinking of the Exorcist.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
Oh jeez, Okay, let's go there.
Take us there, Raza.

Speaker 2 (41:49):
We got Swedish death metal.
We got the exorcist.
Oh geez, Okay, let's go there.
Take us there, Raza.
We got Swedish death metal.

Speaker 1 (41:52):
We have the exorcist Raza brings it how so, raza,
tell me, tell me about it, let'stalk about that.

Speaker 5 (42:00):
Yeah, no it's.
You know, we were all in aspiritual journey of sorts, and
some of ours happens to be onthe opposite side.
You know the ground below,that's all.

Speaker 4 (42:11):
So mad, so dark I love it.

Speaker 3 (42:14):
But it's the way too because when, when it does come
on like that, it can feel likeyou're possessed right, like
like there's, you are friendlyright.
It's a friendly possession, butnonetheless yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:28):
I feel like that's a hashtag you need to coin, david.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
Yeah, possession.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
Friendly possession.

Speaker 3 (42:33):
Yeah, Maybe I'll work it into the tagline of the show
.
So I would so love thatLearning how we are possessed by
music in a in a friendly way.

Speaker 1 (42:41):
But we don't know where the healing, we don't know
.

Speaker 3 (42:43):
No, right, right.
And I think, like you know,just with the stories we've
already heard too, like it, justlike we haven't sort of
mentioned it directly, but thefact that you were, like you
know, 10, 11 years old and youhad that feeling then of like I
want to play those things andthen got told, no, because girls

(43:04):
don't do that, I mean I'm sureeveryone listening and watching
when they heard that was justlike, like my goodness, like
what, what that person did inthat moment to like squash
something in you that it tookyou then 35 years to eventually
get back to.
But like, and I want to tell,people now sorry, but girls do

(43:25):
fucking drum, girls drum.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
And now with social media media.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
You can find them everywhere and so like anybody
listening, like you know, please, girls, drum 100 100 awesome
and you just you can find themeverywhere.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
You see, it's not even a question now it's not
even a question sorry, david, Itotally cut you off though no,
it's all right.

Speaker 3 (43:48):
Caveat rosa's about to do it again too.

Speaker 5 (43:50):
So oh no, you go first man okay, um, but no, just
like so.

Speaker 3 (43:56):
So the initial part of this story is like a a a sad,
terrible story.
Right of being told, no, inthis, like squashing, right.
But then it's this likeredemption, 35 years later,
right, and in hearing the songswe've heard before, break on
through, right.
I'm having this moment of like35 years later you broke on

(44:17):
through to that other side, andthen also with the Dancing Queen
song.
Right, you were saying it thentoo, like the first thing you
did when you were home alone isput on some music, and that was
based on what you were saying is.
Right around the same time, youwere saying I want to play
drums, and we're being told toknow which occurred to me
actually.
Right.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
Only just now.

Speaker 3 (44:36):
Yeah, this musical drive that was there at those
years that we know are soimportant, so important,
formative and things 10, 11years old.

Speaker 1 (44:49):
And all the dude drummers.
I know that's when they started.
It was 10, 11.
It was like that's the agethat's the age when and trust
your kid to know.

Speaker 4 (44:55):
Kids know 10, 11.

Speaker 1 (44:55):
Yes, they're young but they fucking know.
They know their soul and it'sthe last chance before they get
totally like adolescented out ofthat.
Like they know their soul, theyknow it.
Okay, this psa is over, butplease listen to your kids yeah,
dave, were you 11 when you did,when you?

Speaker 3 (45:14):
started playing drums .
Yeah, I was right.
I mean, I was playing a littlebit before that.
My grandfather was a drummer,so I, when he would babysit me
at like five, six years old, hewould set up the snare drum so I
was banging it and stuff, butlike when I really like hit, was
you know 10 years old?
Yeah, right at that time, andthat was, that was everything
and I will say, you know,talking about girls do drum.

Speaker 1 (45:34):
I will say the blessing in all of this it's and
it's just sort of happenedincidentally, I didn't really
set out, but I have had theopportunity of being a vehicle
for drums to be introduced to afew girls.
Um, so my niece, um, I Iactually it was, it was was my
nephew, he's a guitar player andand I had this electronic kit

(45:54):
and I was like I'm not using itanymore.
I asked, my brother-in-law gaveit to them and it was my, it
was my niece that really took itup and started playing.
And my daughter, you know,she'll sit, she's a natural like
holy shit, like she can justsit down and she can just hear
me and I'm just like damn, likekid, like you've got this in you
, like she can pick up a groovelike instantly.
And then we, um, she didvolleyball and we were at this

(46:16):
like volleyball tournament andthere was this like huge break
in the day and we're like, okay,like we were looking after kind
of one of her friends, notlooking after, but like she was
driving around with us and stuff, and I'm like let's go teach
Alex the drums, right, likelet's go to Long.
Island we went to the one thatwas out in Abbotsford and it was
the day that Alex learned thedrums and she sat down and she's
like I can't do this.
I'm like, try this you knowsimple beat right, simple beat,

(46:38):
and by the end she was likethrowing in fills and her dad
had been thinking about gettingan electronic kit and they
freaking got one and she keptplaying and it was like, okay,
that's like, that's a gift to bea vehicle, like whatever they
do with that but to be a vehiclefor that.
Oh, I just felt so good.

Speaker 3 (46:58):
Yeah, a hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (47:00):
So you know it's, you don't know.

Speaker 4 (47:02):
No, I was going to ask um because it felt like.
It felt like your soul wastalking to you at 10 or 11, and
then life squashed that message,35 years later, came back,
talked to you again.
This time you listened.
There's something aboutlistening to our souls and being
who we truly are, who we reallyare.

(47:23):
So I am curious how has yourlife changed from listening to
that?

Speaker 1 (47:31):
Um, I don't, I can't even describe how it's changed
because I think that I would beimagining sort of like an
adjacent life, like a parallellife that I just couldn't even
like reconcile.
But I guess change in terms ofevolution, like the things that

(47:52):
it led into um, are some thingsthat we'll probably talk about
with some of the other songs.
My relationship with my bodycompletely changed, my
relationship with my ability totrust myself, um, my
relationship with um familymembers and my ability to
actually say like, okay, mom'sgot a busy day, so just heads up
, she's gonna be starting herpractice at 7 45 in the morning,

(48:15):
y'all, so you're gonna have to.
So, just so it did.
Everything changed, like, but Ican't even conceptualize it
because when you ask me thequestion I think, well, what
would it have been?
And I actually really don'twant to imagine what it would be
without it if that makes anysense.

Speaker 4 (48:33):
So it's like clearly the road like it diverged.

Speaker 1 (48:36):
It diverged, but like it has cracked open everything.
So so everything has changed.
Everything has changed, and andI'm sure more of that will come
up as we probably talk aboutthe other songs I wish I could
it's?
It's changed my relationshipwith myself, like I said, with
my body, with the ability tosort of like prioritize um

(49:01):
things for myself that I neverreally could do before.

Speaker 3 (49:05):
Well, and I think I think you said it so well with
that of like your life didn'tjust change because now you know
how to play drums.
No Right, which is what peoplemight think, like you didn't
play drums for so long and nowyou did it and it's added in.

Speaker 4 (49:17):
So now you know how to play drums.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're thesame person, but you play drums
now.
Right, you have a cool newhobby.

Speaker 3 (49:23):
Great, everyone needs hobbies.
But what you did just say thereto Carolina's question is that,
no, it changed everything,because you did this thing and
you were able to fully beyourself.
I mean, you lay relationshipwith family and how it relates
to your body and relationship toall of these things, which is
what's so important, right, andso people are out there

(49:44):
listening, right, and you've gotthat thing that keeps calling
to you.
Do it, Because it's not justgoing to change in the sense of
like now you know how to playdrums, or now you know how to
ride a motorcycle, or now youknow how to paint.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
It's going to change lots of things and because and
it's like Carolina said it's sobeautiful and I can see it in
your eyes, I see the resonancein your eyes even over the
screen that soul thing is you'rebeing invited into that because
the idea is, this is going topermeate a whole lot of shit,
because there's stuff you needto clean up and stuff you need
to confront and stuff you needto work through that If, if

(50:17):
you're not ready to listen toyour soul, I get that, because I
think there's part of us thatknows that this is a big fucking
deal, because if your soul iscalling you to this.
It's going to change everythingand I.
It has been hard work butbeautiful for me.
Like the, I have never.
I have never felt more at homein myself.

Speaker 3 (50:41):
Oh, that's beautiful.
I think we can continue to talkabout this song and story for
forever.
We do have some more songs toget to but I think this next
question and song is going tofit perfectly with this, because
we're going to get into exactlysome of these struggles and
challenges.
Right, We've talked a lot abouthow music can kind of do these,

(51:03):
these great things for us, butsometimes music is there as part
of a challenge or struggle, andso for this next song, you know
what's a song that youstruggled to listen to or might
even need to turn off because ofthe difficult memories it
brings up.
And what are those memories?

Speaker 1 (51:22):
Yeah, so this song is 1979 by the Smashing Pumpkins.
I don't like listening to it,but I'm totally prepared to
listen to it here for thepurpose that it'll serve.
It's a song from the mid-90sthat takes me back to a really
dark time.

Speaker 3 (51:42):
All right, let's take a listen.
That's where I'm going to rest,to dance, I guess.
God in the house of truth.
So what was the dark time?

Speaker 1 (52:04):
Yeah, so, like I mentioned, I've struggled with
my relationship with my body.
I've struggled with myrelationship with food.
I have had anxiety as acompanion since I was very
little and that all really cameto a head in the mid 90s and I
had a pretty intense eatingdisorder, that this song was

(52:28):
like the soundtrack of that time.
And the reason it comes up nowprimarily is my daughter is 18.
Like I think I mentioned, she'sgoing through her 90s phase.
So for like we're driving inher truck and it comes up on her
playlist, I'm like please skipit, I can't listen to it,
because at the time I worked atan espresso bar.

(52:48):
That was like I don't know, Ithink espresso bars, like
Starbucks and all that kind ofcame.
It came to us here like I wasprobably about like 16 when I
had my first Starbucks latte.
So you know, like when you'relike 19 years old getting a gig
at an espresso bar, that was apretty cool gig, the morning
shift, and we had to have it ona certain radio station and the

(53:11):
song was on all the time and Iwas submerged in an eating
disorder and so it I made aplaylist of some of these songs
that we were going to talk about, to like just kind of listen to
and kind of like hear them, andI couldn't put this one on it I
needed I needed to just yeah,because it's like, it's visceral
, like I'm back.

Speaker 3 (53:33):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:36):
Yeah.
So I'm totally prepared to talkabout that time and that
experience, because I think thatthere's so much shame and this
is the other thing, Like whenyou talk about, about like what
drumming changed.
This is not a conversation Icould have had three years ago.
I don't even think my dad knows.
My mom found out a few yearsago.

(53:57):
It came up because we hadfamily friends and when I was
kind of getting to the beginningof like my healing, this family
friend and I apparently she hasit in a memory that we were at
university together and we weresitting and we were talking and
I was I was explaining to hersomething that helped me and I
guess it resonated deeply withher and it really began her

(54:19):
healing journey.
And she's actually written abook and thanked me in the book
and so her mom knew and so hermom told my mom because secret
secrecy, shame we hide this.
I know that people listening areif that um, it's how it like
hooks you and pulls you and anddictates your life and dictates

(55:00):
your days, and, if nothing else,the reason that I put this song
out there is because I thinkthat the first step is to walk
out of the shame and again thatonly came for me, healing with
some of the things that began tohappen out of playing the drums
.
It did not happen years ago andI really think that it's

(55:21):
something that talks to us.
If you've had an eatingdisorder, it's a language, it's
an internal language that youspeak or that you have to listen
to.
That.
I'm not entirely sure if itever goes away.
I think you navigate it and youmake deals with it and you heal
, but it's a lens that you onlyshare with other folks that have

(55:41):
walked that path.

Speaker 4 (55:44):
Yeah, I get it.

Speaker 3 (55:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:46):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (55:47):
Yeah, yeah.
Thank you for sharing thisstory, um, and, and, and and the
song associated with it, um.
You know it's, it's, it's.
The goal here is just that,right, using music to tell some
of these stories of um, to bringit out of the shadows, right,

(56:07):
Bring it out of the shame, bringit out of the quiet talk.

Speaker 1 (56:08):
Bring it out of the shame.
Bring it out of the quiet.
Talk about it.
You're not alone.

Speaker 3 (56:11):
You're not alone, realizing that you are not
unique in going through it, butit is uniquely yours when you're
the one going through it.

Speaker 1 (56:20):
And they're your demons, and it's the things that
you have to wrestle with, andthe things that brought me to it
and that brought me out of itare not going to be the same for
somebody else.
The things that brought me toit and that brought me out of it
are not going to be the samefor somebody else, but you can
navigate a space where you canheal.

Speaker 3 (56:36):
Yeah, absolutely.
And just to say one more thing.
And then, raza, or Caroline, ifyou have something, but on the
music side of it, right, ifyou're out somewhere and you're
driving with some colleagues atwork and you got to go to some
work function, and like theperson driving is like, hey,
let's put on some music.
And they put this song on andyou're like, ah, can we listen

(56:57):
to something else?
Someone could go what?
Why you don't like the smashingpumpkins?
Come on, it's the one of thebiggest bands of the night, you
know.

Speaker 1 (57:04):
like I can never even get that close to it.
It wasn't liking, right, right.

Speaker 3 (57:09):
And that's kind of the point of it's like our
relation with music is sopersonal in these ways that it's
beyond just is it a good songor not, or whatnot.
You were at a point in yourlife where this song was just
constant there, right, all of ushave had an experience like
that of working somewhere andthere's some song that's on loop

(57:29):
and it sticks with us in allkinds of different ways and you
just highlight so well how thatsong can attach to you, attach
to this difficult time you weregoing through, and so it brings
that back and it's interestingthat you say thank you, thank
you, and it's interesting howyou worded, how you worded that,

(57:50):
because I was thinking as youwere speaking the control and
and.

Speaker 1 (57:54):
And it's interesting when you talk about you said
something about when you'reforced to listen to a song
because we are sometimes inenvironments where we don't that
is not our option to to removeourselves and, of course, folks
listening, all of us that havestruggled with food and body
image issues.
We know control issues and ourrelationship with what we can
and can't control and how we actthat out on our bodies, in our

(58:15):
bodies, through our bodies.
That's so tied in and thatactually never occurred to me,
david, that actually the songwas forced upon me and it wasn't
a problem at the time until itbecame associated.

Speaker 3 (58:26):
It's sort of an after the fact right, right, right,
and not something specific aboutthe song itself it's that it
was forced it was there couldhave been the song that helped
you through this time rightexactly you could have been
putting this on at home eachnight and it helped you through
this time.
But that's not the context ofit.

Speaker 5 (58:43):
It was being forced on you, and so it has this other
connotation yeah yeah can I ask, um, this might be taking a
step back, but I think, uh,something you had said a little
bit earlier um, uh, you hadmentioned that, um, uh, you
wouldn't have been able todiscuss this song, or, you know,
some of these other emotionstied to it, just a couple years

(59:06):
ago.
Um, but for this, you know this, um, this drumming journey has
sort of allowed you this spacenow to open up.
Could you, maybe, maybe, youknow, give a little bit more
context and color to that?
Like how, what's the connectionbetween drumming and, for
example, this song?

(59:26):
Like what, what is it aboutdrumming that is now you know?
It's made you um, uh, is itjust more?
Being more insightful, moreself-aware?

Speaker 1 (59:43):
more.
Is it like I wish I was thatkind of no, no, it was therapy,
so I would love to talk aboutthis because this was part of
the healing journey.
So, um, I I mentioned I startedwith a new teacher, ryan, who
has this fantastic plan forbuilding these fundamental
skills of drumming.
So it's like, yeah, I learnedsongs and that's fun, and but
there's like these sort of likefundamental exercises that I do.
So, whether it's like stickcontrol exercises or practicing
beats to like really developcontrol with the kick, what

(01:00:05):
would happen?
And actually it did whathappened.
It would happen with songs too.
So when I go to lessons, my,you know, I have a kit and my
drum teacher has a kit and Ijust need to say, like this is,
ryan is one of the most amazinghumans that I've ever known.
He's like a brother to me.
Now it is a safe place.
But something that was startingto happen when I was drumming,

(01:00:26):
especially in songs, is my kickleg would go weak.
So it's my right leg, I wouldbe, I would be fine at home.
I, you know, yeah, we're alwaysa little bit nervous, like if
somebody is watching, especiallyyou know, hello, like a world
renowned professional drummer issitting there watching you.
Like you get a little nervous,like it's understandable, but
not everything to shut down.
And I was and and I didn't knowwhy and I took it you know I do

(01:00:51):
all kinds of stuff, you know solike I took it to different,
like healing practitioners andstuff that I see and and things
helped.
But last year and again this iswhat I was saying this last
2024 was a big year fordevelopment.
It was like the spring and umhave a family member who I was
supporting, uh, through somehealth stuff, and we were in a
situation where they were nolonger driving.

(01:01:13):
We were in a situation where Ibecame aware of a pattern of
interaction that we had that wasdrawing attention to my body
and my mannerisms and myself ina way that just seemed so
dysfunctional that I'd neverreally had a lens to see,
because the dynamic of ourrelationship had changed.
We were spending more timetogether and I was like this is

(01:01:36):
fucked up and I think this issomething, and I think this ties
into the eating disorder, itties into the leg, it ties into
like it's, it's ties intoeverything about how I've always
been somebody that pays moreattention to what the outside
world sees, rather than likeoperating from an internal space
, if that makes sense, like I,way too preoccupied by the other

(01:01:56):
lens and I was like I can't.
The thing that this, that Iwill not allow this to mess up,
is drumming.
Like that is my mind in thesand, like I cannot.
I do not accept this.
And it did.
It inspired me to go intotherapy and I work with a
therapist who does EMDR.
It's there's many differentways of doing EMDR.

(01:02:18):
The way that he does it, I haddone it in the past with eye
movement you keep your eyes open, and that didn't.
That didn't work for me.
That approach, this approachthat he does, um, you hold these
, these pods, and all in in onein each hand, and it creates
this alternating pulse.
And there's a whole lot more tothat story.
I would encourage folks, ifthey're interested, to look it
up.
But it was a game changer for mebecause it allowed certain

(01:02:42):
things to become reconciled, um,at a level that was like,
fundamental to my being and it'staken a long time like it to my
being and it's taken a longtime Like it's.
It's taken months, it's takenmany sessions.
There's talking, there's allkinds of things, but drumming
was my line in the sand, and sothrough that process of therapy
I also worked through a lot ofstuff that was tied up with the

(01:03:02):
eating disorder.
Um, so it was like one bigpotpourri or soup or something
where there was all of theselike ingredients and they all
started to become unpacked andit was because I'm like nobody
is fucking with my drumming,like I get so many years left
and I like my goal is to be ahired gun in a dad band.

(01:03:23):
Like that would be like a dreamcome true.
For me.
That's like the bar, like Idon't need to sell out stadiums
I'm realistic.
But to like jam with like somelike wicked local musicians and
feel confident and comfortableat the kit, like I don't know
how long that's gonna take, butnothing, nothing is gonna get in
the way.
So I don't know if that reallyanswers your question, but it
was like.
That was like the whole.

(01:03:43):
That's the healing journey.
Yeah, that's what it's taking.

Speaker 5 (01:03:48):
What you say about.
You know the um, uh, the linein the sand aspect is drumming.
It's like, okay, if somethingis starting to affect that, that
is so I'll.
I'll take it that that makessense.

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
And great it helped me with my eating disorder.
Like that is an incrediblebonus.
Like because it changed myrelationship to my body, like
the gratitude and appreciationthat I have for what my body can
do, like that's another thing.
It's like, if you're leaninginto this really difficult thing
, and again, like Carolina, itwas so beautiful when you say,
like, when your soul is speakingto you, there's a reason it's
speaking to you.

Speaker 5 (01:04:24):
When I drove to Long and McQuaid that day, I'm not, I
got a drum, I got to figurethis out, and that's one really
nerdy question here yes, I loveit okay, drumming nerdy question
was there, um, when, when youstarted playing drums, was there
like a skill I don't know ifit's like double bass or
paradiddle or whatever was wasthere a skill that you were like

(01:04:44):
, you were unable to do, butover time and practice, you know
with with your instructor, youwere able to hit it, and then,
like the sort of euphoria thatfollows, after that can you
speak to a little bit?

Speaker 3 (01:04:56):
about yeah, what was your drumming?

Speaker 5 (01:04:57):
white whale.

Speaker 1 (01:04:58):
Yeah, there you go I think I mean, there's all the
technique stuff which isconstantly growing, and ryan is
a double bass drummer, like, sohe's wicked, like I mean like
when you see, like just it's,that is definitely a goal one
day.

Speaker 5 (01:05:10):
What's his last name?
I'm sorry, I've been put a Ryan.
Okay, I've heard it.
I have heard it, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
Yeah, yeah, he's a cool guy Shout out to Ryan
because he's been, he's walkedthe journey with me, right, um,
and that's the thing it's like.
The sessions are, there's thistherapeutic.
So in terms of technique, likedefinitely like working on, like
stick control and actually,like you know, developing like
speed and like doubles and allthat like that's super cool.

(01:05:36):
Figuring this thing out with myleg, which I'm still doing
because I do exercises to workon that, and that's a you know,
that's, that's a constant thing.
But the the thing for me wasgoing from intellectualizing and
rational and thinking and likereading music, because I could
read music and it's really cool.
Like, if you can read, if youcan read music, it's really cool
.
And I mean, folks don't reallyget that, you know, yeah,
drummers, there's sheet musicyou can read and it's fantastic

(01:05:58):
because it'll break it all downfor you.
But that analytical approachwas like my, it almost became an
anchor.
It almost became an anchor andwhen I started working with Ryan
he would, we didn't rely somuch, especially like for the
songs.
I'm not playing off music, it'sfeel, it's listening, it's
paying attention to, like whathe's showing me, and translating

(01:06:19):
that into movement and andgoing on, feel and resting in
the trust that, yes, you need to, again building a vocabulary
movement.
You got to think about whatyou're doing.
When you're encounteringsomething new, you're constantly
like what the hell?
Okay, so this is doing this andthis is doing that, and you
need to have that beginningperiod of learning it.

(01:06:40):
But translating into just likebeing able to play the music and
trust my body and I'm learninga song now where it's?
It's the biggest game changer.
It's not an easy song, butstep-by-step I've been able to
build all the parts and so nowI'm like when I play and I check

(01:07:02):
out and my body and soul takesover and I don't really give a
shit about the.
Am I doing this right?

Speaker 2 (01:07:13):
that's, that's it, yeah and it's reached that point
of flow nice yeah, and I mean Idon't know like I.

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
Kids are fantastic.
Young people are fantasticbecause they record everything
right, like they're like postingeverything on youtube and
instagram and they showeverybody their journey.
I have really like not recordedmyself at all.
It's a highly recommended thatyou actually pay attention to
how you're playing.
I need to do that so I don'treally know what it looks like
from the outside in.
I know what my family gives mefeedback on, but I I love it

(01:07:42):
when I don't care.

Speaker 4 (01:07:43):
And.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
I just it feels like I'm in time and it feels like,
and I used to always be ahead.
So, david, I don't know.
And, raza, you're, do you playan instrument Like I was?
I was always ahead.
I was always ahead of the beat.
And now I can.
I find that when I playdifferent songs, I'm getting the
feel for each of those songsand I'm resting at whatever
point they're inviting me to beat.

(01:08:05):
Yeah, nice, oh, this is sodangerous, it all comes down to
drumming.

Speaker 3 (01:08:09):
I know I've got more things I want to say, but you
know we have more songs, but Ialso want to say, carolina, do
you have something you wanted toask or say?

Speaker 4 (01:08:17):
I just I know we have to move on to the next song,
but I just love, I love thatmusic.
Not just listening to it, butplaying it gave you the shift of
moving from what your bodylooks like to what your body can
do.

Speaker 1 (01:08:35):
It really did, it really fucking did.
And the gratitude that I havefor this body at 49, I think
back to that 19 year old kid, 20year old kid, and I just think.
I think back to that 19 yearold kid, 20 year old kid, and I
just think, honey, it's a gift,like, yeah, you're wrestling
with some shit and it's going totake you some time, but it's a

(01:08:57):
fucking gift.
Absolutely yeah, I have myKleenex box, right yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:09:06):
I just before we move on to the next song um, the one
thing I was going to say, umabout it that I think and and
this is for us here, but alsofor people that are listening
and you know, because we talkabout healing, you know that
this is this show is my drummingat 46, right I I got the option
to do it at 10, right, so I hadI had that this show.

(01:09:28):
Having these conversationstalking about music is my sort
of thing.
That has been my thing.
That is part of my healingjourney, that I don't want to
let PTSD or other things mess up, right, and I think, for people
listening, we talked about andyou said it so well about how
drumming changed your life.
Right, it wasn't just I've gotthis new hobby, but it just

(01:09:49):
changed everything.
The way I relate and I thinkwhen you said it there too,
about the drumming, was the linein the sand, like I'm going to
deal with all of this other shitbecause I've got this thing now
that I don't want to lose andso I'm going to do all the other
work.
And I think that's reallyhelpful for people to hear is

(01:10:11):
that it doesn't just magicallyfix something.
It gives you the motivation towant to do the work.

Speaker 1 (01:10:17):
Yeah, and motivation To deal with it.

Speaker 3 (01:10:19):
Motivation doesn't even do the drive, it's a
compulsion right, right, rightthe possession.

Speaker 4 (01:10:22):
Yeah, you get what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (01:10:23):
It is it is A friendly possession.

Speaker 4 (01:10:25):
Friendly possession Friendly possession yeah,
absolutely.

Speaker 5 (01:10:28):
The power of Christ.
Yes, oh yeah exorcism overthere.

Speaker 2 (01:10:34):
Thank you all yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:10:35):
And please, I know we have to move on, but I really
want to encourage folks to notgive up on their journey, that
every step that you are walking,as dark as it feels through an
eating disorder, through astruggle with your body, keep
walking.
Hang on to whatever glimmer youcan.
Any day, that's a win.
Any slight shift in yourperspective, any moment where

(01:10:56):
you have that little drop ofpeace, it will build.
It will build.

Speaker 3 (01:11:02):
Absolutely All right, let's move on to the next one.
Okay, so in a number of theseprevious examples it's sort of
been you and music, kind ofalone, right, even the coffee
shop example is kind of therewere other people around, but it
was sort of this individualexperience or driving in the car

(01:11:22):
with Boston.
But a lot of times we listen tomusic with other people and it
brings us together.
So for this next song, what isa song that reminds you of a
good friend or group of friends?

Speaker 1 (01:11:35):
It is To Be With you by Mr Big, and now I'm
definitely going to need theKleenex box and it reminds me of
my high school friends.
Disclaimer this is not thestoner crowd, so if they're
listening, different group,different group.

Speaker 3 (01:11:49):
Not the stoner crowd, so if they're listening,
different group.

Speaker 1 (01:11:50):
Different group, not the stoners.
They were stoner adjacent andthis is.
It takes me back to them.

Speaker 3 (01:11:57):
All right, let's take a listen Deep inside.
I hope you feel it too.

Speaker 2 (01:12:11):
Waited on a line of dreams and blues, just to be the
next to be with you, nice.

Speaker 4 (01:12:23):
Girl, your song choices are just.

Speaker 1 (01:12:26):
They chose me honey.

Speaker 3 (01:12:29):
That's what we say on this show all the time.
The songs choose us.
Yeah so what's the story behindthis?
What's the group of friends setthe stage?

Speaker 1 (01:12:38):
So this one kind of again 2024, but also takes me
back to 1992.
So in the summer of 1992, itwas right at the beginning of
the summer, at least that's howI remember it and for anybody
listening that knows the storythat was personally affected by
this story, I just want to saythat I want to do justice, but
it's going to be filteredthrough what I remember of this

(01:12:59):
time.
A classmate was killed in ahorrific car accident and there
was no drugs or alcohol involved.
I just want to say that it wasback roads.
There were details that Ilearned last year that fleshed

(01:13:21):
out some of my memory of thattime.
But the reason that this songspeaks to me is because my
friend Christy and I were not onthis camping trip.
One of my dear friends fromthis group was and was in the
immediate aftermath of it, andChristy and I, though, we sat on
her bed like every day afterschool and we just like listened

(01:13:44):
.
I know we listened to moresongs.
I could not tell you what theywere.
This is the one that we justlistened to over and over and
over again.
Maybe it was like a recordingoff a radio, I don't know Like
this was the mixtape era.
I don't know if we just likeplayed it.
I don't know, but there wassomething about the feeling.
I still remember sitting on herbed I still I'm in that room,

(01:14:34):
no-transcript, and we hadstarted talking.
We started messaging again.
We're like, oh my God, we gotto get together and it had been
building, so I guess it wouldhave been at the end of 2023.
We started in a group chat andfinally, in 2024, christy took
the lead on it and she's like weall got to get together.
It was June.
It was literally the nightbefore my daughter's graduation
ceremony and I didn't even carewhat time.

(01:14:56):
I got home.
We all got together, except forthere was, unfortunately, there
was a couple girls thatcouldn't make it, and it was
like no time had passed In thebuildup to getting together.
Annika, my daughter, had beenat a volleyball tournament and
there was music piped in.
It was massive.
It was like this huge eventthere was you know, you know how

(01:15:18):
it is with tournaments, rightand this song came on and I had
literally just been messagingthis friend group.
And this, this collision ofworlds, happened where my
daughter was the age that I was.
I was talking to these girlsthat I hadn't seen in 30 years.
We were all like it's likewe're all turning 50 this year.
So this year we're all turning50.
It's like there's somethingmagical about that.

(01:15:39):
And when we got together, thisaccident came up.
It wasn't the only thing wetalked about, but we did talk
about how it changed everysingle one of us.
We were all differently relatedto this boy who died.
Some of us were closer, some ofus just knew him kind of
casually.
It changed.
Every single one of us and mykids do a lot of off-roading,

(01:16:05):
they do overlanding kind oftrips.
They drive on the roads thatthis crew had been driving on.
And that was another thing that, thank God, I had started
therapy that I could unpack.
So it's like I don't even knowwhere these stories end and
begin.
It just this song does all ofthat for me, and and and it's

(01:16:26):
astonishing.
It's astonishing that you know,one human 30 years ago can have
a fate that impacts all ofthese other people forever.
That 30 years later I'm gettingemotional talking about this in
a way that I couldn't haveimagined then, and this song
does that- yeah.
I hope.

(01:16:46):
I hope that that's.
I can't guarantee that therewas any clarity on that story
because it is a mashup of twocompletely different eras of my
life.

Speaker 3 (01:16:55):
Yeah, absolutely how music can be, this thing that
helps us.
I was going to say navigate ourlife, but that makes it sound

(01:17:16):
like it's just in the moment andit's like a GPS, like it's just
directing us, but it's a way tomark our life in ways right.
We know this with people laterin life who are suffering from
dementia or Alzheimer's andthings like that.
Like music a lot of times can bethe thing that still they're
still able to connect with.
They remember that you put asong on that they, you know,
danced at their wedding, at orwhatever, and they, you know,

(01:17:37):
they connect with it and yourstory kind of just highlights
that so well of like this songyou heard it at this volleyball
tournament when the world fromback then was coming back
together here and kind of putsit together and kind of marks it
in a way where you're able tokind of pause and and have
awareness of what's happening inthat way, and so it's just

(01:17:59):
beautiful.

Speaker 2 (01:18:00):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:18:02):
Others.

Speaker 4 (01:18:03):
I see.

Speaker 2 (01:18:03):
I see, I see their faces.

Speaker 4 (01:18:06):
Like so much is coming up for me with with this
story and this experience.
Um one, how music marks time,right, as david said, and it
doesn't just like mark it likeoh, I remember where I was.
Like you almost feel likeyou're that 18 year old again.
You do, and it's hard sometimes, and so then, like that,

(01:18:26):
combined with how hard it can besometimes as a parent when you
still feel like that 18 year oldbut you're in charge of this
human I know you know, and thenthey're at the age that you feel
like you still are and you'relike it.
It's a, it's um, I don't evenknow, it's just like pivoting
back and forth all the time likeknow, it's just like pivoting

(01:18:51):
back and forth of realms all thetime.
Like you know, our daughter isgraduating this year as well,
and I find that so much of howI'm parenting right now is a
direct reflection of how I wasat graduation time.
What was going on for me, whatwas my experience, and so what
am I hoping for you in yourexperience and what lessons did
I learn that I'm hoping youlearn?
And you got to buy a grad dressand you got to hoping you learn
driving and you gotta buy agrad dress and you gotta rent a

(01:19:12):
limo and you gotta do all thispractical shit that's like not
even yeah yeah, and help guidesomeone through a, a transition,
a rite of passage, when you'restill coming to terms with the
things that went on at that sameage.

Speaker 1 (01:19:31):
I mean I'll say, my kids have done a better job than
I did navigating these ages andstages.
And I say better in the senseof I mean I guess I have
firsthand experience of my ownneuroses, I don't of theirs.
You know what I?
Don't say that lightly theylook like they're doing an

(01:19:51):
amazing job, but we all carryshit Right.

Speaker 2 (01:19:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:19:57):
Yeah, I think all of that to say all the things that
we are juggling and the older weget, the more we juggle that we
think we're doing a great jobat juggling.
And then one song just causesYep, like an that we think we're
doing a great job at juggling,and then one song just causes a
yep.
Like an explosion of all ofthat Yep and like all the
feelings come up from then andnow.

Speaker 1 (01:20:19):
One of the one of the things that was really neat
about the experience with mygirlfriends last year that we
realized was we all have friendsnow.
You have your mom friends andyou have your couple friends and
you have your work friends andyou have all of these people and
they're all these differentages and stages and they're
really cool people that you love.
But the group of us had thiscollective memory and there was

(01:20:44):
something about sharing thatspace and that time and those
experiences.
And it's not just talking aboutthe teachers and you know the
dynamics in the high school.
It's like there's thiscollective memory and in talking
about Andrew's death and inremembering that time and
Danielle, my dear friend who wasthere, was able to reflect on

(01:21:05):
because she had a closerrelationship with the family and
she was able to sort of sharesome things that came out of
that time, and she was able toto fill out some things that
happened around the accidentthat I didn't even know she was
carrying.
So christy and I were on our bed, on her bed, literally.
You know, processing in our wayand you know some of the the
kids would go to the, to hishouse and visit with his parents

(01:21:27):
.
Like everybody had thesedifferent ways of processing.
But the one I'll tell you thisand I hadn't shared this Not
many people know this, but myone experience with Andrew,
because he was more sort of likea friend of a friend but there

(01:21:47):
was this night when a bunch ofus had gotten together and there
was one truck and that a friendhad and three of the guys sat
in the front and the rest of uspiled in the back and if okay,
we're talking about my dad, sobreak on through.
Guy was like, also seatbelt.
Guy, like you, don't fuckaround with your seatbelt.
Like, you wear your seatbeltlike that, no question.
And here's his 16 year oldidiot daughter.
And this is why I say my kidshave done a better job than I

(01:22:07):
did piling in the back of thetruck, because there was a cute
boy that I really liked and hewas back there.
So of course I'm going to beback there, hello.
And we all laid down and we wenton the freeway and so Andrew
was with us.
He was actually sitting in thefront.
We went down I don't know ifanybody around the world knows
Stanley park, but that's like abig deal park in Vancouver and
that's where we went.
We drove while some of us layin the back of the truck and I

(01:22:30):
was just like that was like myrebel moment, right, and the
whole time my dad's voice is inmy head and I'm sorry, dad, I
know if you're listening like,yes, I did this, but what
happened when we got there isthere's these iconic totem poles
at Stanley Park and I think nowthey might be protected.
What we did as teenagers, Ithink, would be considered

(01:22:51):
inappropriate and sacrilegious,but we were stupid kids having
our moment of like spiritualawakening and I remember we all
grabbed hands and held handsaround a totem pole and somebody
said and cause, this is whatyou do when you're like 16.
They said when we die, all ofour spirits are going to return

(01:23:11):
here.
That's like huh, whatever,we're having our moment, we're
doing our thing, we pile back inthe truck and we go home, but
he died.
Andrew died before the year wasout and that'll fuck a kid up,
you know, for a little whileyeah, because it's like it is
not a joke, right?
you know it's, that's it's.

(01:23:32):
It's why, if your soul callsyou to something, you gotta
fucking listen you gotta listen,yeah because you, you don't
know.
So that went really that way,but but that moment that.

Speaker 4 (01:23:47):
It's so hard at that age.
There were a few kids we lostin high school, mostly in car
accidents, in different ways.
I'm so sorry.
You never forget.
You never forget those kids Atthat age.
To process death, and not thedeath of your grandparent or
your great-grandparent, whoyou're like, you're older, they
lived a good life but to processthe death of someone young

(01:24:10):
while you're still young, yepRough.

Speaker 3 (01:24:13):
Right, cause it cause it.
You know, jen, like your storyof of you, you did this thing
around the totem pole of.
Like you know, you sort of arespeaking about death or what
might happen, but you don'tthink it's going to happen.

Speaker 1 (01:24:25):
No, cause you're lying in the back of a truck
going 90 kilometers an hourright like the bed of the truck
right, yeah, yeah, yes, but Iwill tell you I was lying next
to the cute boy and I was sohappy.
It was such a moment of joy.
But now I'm like screw dangerright, so, and so's laying next
to me so cute.

Speaker 3 (01:24:44):
So the age right, you throw, I mean, and that's why,
why neil peart of rush is one ofmy favorite lines we're only
immortal for a limited time thatwas my daughter's.

Speaker 1 (01:24:53):
Oh my god, that was her yearbook.
That was her yearbook quote wasit really?
It was her yearbook quote.
That was her yearbook quote andthat's like I.
I knew when I read your articleI was like I gotta gotta
connect with this person, ryanryan is probably the biggest
neil peart fan you'll ever meetBig Rush fan.

Speaker 3 (01:25:09):
So like yeah, so meant to be.
Why don't you say it?

Speaker 1 (01:25:13):
again, I totally cut you off.

Speaker 3 (01:25:15):
Let it land for folks because it's beautiful when
we're younger, in those ways wethink we're invincible, yeah,
right.
And then something like that,what you the story you just
described about, you know this,this friend, um, dying in a car

(01:25:38):
accident happens, and then thatkind of wakes everybody up a
little bit from that of like, oh, we're not immortal, right?
This?
This is something that canhappen to to our circle right in
those ways, and it it thosemoments change you or can change
you.
They can.

Speaker 1 (01:25:57):
And you know it's interesting because, as we're
talking about music, this islike kind of giving me
goosebumps.
But I'm recalling, you know,some of those frantic phone
calls like this is the day oflandlines, right, like you were
lucky if you had like anextension, like a long cord
where you could go somewhereelse.
And I remember after theaccident happened, so it was
like we would be phoning eachother all the time and I won't

(01:26:19):
say the name of who, who it was,just I don't want to put it on
anybody, but but one of thegirls I was talking to had gone
back to the accident scene andone of the things she found was
a mixtape.
That's like fuck, because whatdoes that do when you hear that?
That's what does it.

Speaker 3 (01:26:37):
Yeah, absolutely Right, because there was, yeah,
a song playing.

Speaker 1 (01:26:43):
There was a yeah, right, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:26:46):
There's always a song playing yeah right, absolutely.

Speaker 3 (01:26:52):
There's always a song playing, absolutely.
Thank you very much for thatstory and sharing it, and I like
a number of your stories.
There's there's this, there's achallenge to it, but in so many
of it there's this, there'sthis coming together or
something later on right so this, this, this, this this
reconnection with these peopleand these friends from that time

(01:27:12):
.
So thank you for sharing that.
Yeah, and with that you're atyour last song.
Now, here we go.
I don't want to go.
Song number six Okay, this isjust the conversation for the
show.
This won't be our lastconversation, cool.
But for your last song, we'vetalked about a lot of

(01:27:33):
challenging things.
And so for your last song,what's that song that's just
going to instantly put you in agood mood when you put it on.

Speaker 1 (01:27:40):
It is, this is the Way by Five Finger Death Punch
and it fucking rocks.

Speaker 3 (01:27:46):
Let's take a listen.
This song also features DMmx,who you'll hear right at the
beginning of the clip Nice.

Speaker 1 (01:28:22):
I will say this is a song that, if I'm in the kitchen
and I'm just like moving myshoulders, my daughter's like is
that what you're doing at theclub, mom?
I'm like, no, no, this is thekitchen version.

Speaker 2 (01:28:34):
Nice.

Speaker 3 (01:28:36):
So anything particular about this song that
does it for you.

Speaker 1 (01:28:42):
It's another thing that I just can't put into words
because it's that feeling, it'sjust it just just just crack
something open.
I.
I mean it's kind of like you'rekind of like given a fuck you,
but at the same time you're likereally happy to um, I started I
again.

(01:29:02):
So like a lot of like, likeheavier music and stuff was not
really a part of my, like thesoundtrack of my life until
recently, and this one last yearagain was the whole arc of the
year was really interesting.
It began with supporting afamily member who is no longer
driving, someone who I didn't,who is a very close family
member, who actually peoplewould be surprised that we

(01:29:24):
didn't see each other a lot, butwith their pivot to not driving
, I became the driver, spent alot of time together, and so
there were.
So I was just in that inbetween stage, like I said, my
daughter had graduated, my sonis older, working, my kids were
moving on, and now it's.
It was my mom.

(01:29:45):
It's my mom who I love.
Hi, mom, she needed somesupport and was going through
some health stuff, and we know,we hear, we read that this can
happen.
You know your kids go on andthen your parents need you and
my mom needed me, and thatbrought some stuff up over the

(01:30:05):
course of the year and so therewould be again.
I wasn't alone in the truck asmuch.
I didn't have that music moment.
I clearly this is like apivotal thing for me is having
like alone time with music whileI'm driving.
And I just didn't have that.
I didn't have that release andI didn't know that I needed that
until I didn't have it anymore.
That that was like sacred space.

(01:30:26):
I think in some ways because I'mnot someone that's always
listening to music there's notalways music on at home, I don't
always have music in my ears.
There's something about theexperience, I think, of driving
where I don't know if it's likea road trippy feel, I don't know
what it is and I just lost, Ilost a lot of that because we're
driving.
So any opportunity that I hadto be alone, this, this, this,

(01:30:46):
this song would be on likealways, like I would.
I will sing it, I will feel it,I will dance to it as much as
like a shoulders thing, it justit became part of the
therapeutic process and I, I Ican't really put into words why
the lyrics, the music, they'rejust like kind of I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:31:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:31:09):
And sometimes we don't have to right that doesn't
have to have an explanation,it's just even talking about it,
though, like I feel like thisexpansion in my chest, like I,
just, I, just I want to soak itup and be soaked up by it yeah,
absolutely and that's what thegreat music can do.

Speaker 3 (01:31:25):
Go ahead, rosa.

Speaker 5 (01:31:25):
I was just gonna say yeah it sounds like it's like of
it's, it's like you're sayingit's not, it's not the music.
Say, yeah, it sounds like it'slike of it's, it's like you're
saying it's not, it's not themusic, it's not the lyrics, it's
like this visceral.

Speaker 1 (01:31:33):
You know just feeling it's more than it's more, more
than a feeling tying it alltogether which you knew as you
curated this list, right davidyou guys, yeah no I didn't know
when I was.

Speaker 3 (01:31:47):
This is the universe working through me, all of these
, are these through?

Speaker 2 (01:31:49):
this is the universe working through me all of these
are these happy accidents thatthe universe is doing so much
with this show we don't

Speaker 1 (01:31:55):
even know what is going to happen because I picked
the songs but I didn't see thethread.

Speaker 5 (01:32:01):
Sorry, raza this pertains to you.
We started with your dad andwe're closing out the list.

Speaker 1 (01:32:08):
Oh my god, you went all meta on me, jesus I know
what I know therapy next timeyeah, I was.

Speaker 3 (01:32:17):
I was on that same note with what raza said.
I was gonna say we started withbreak on through and you
sharing, you kind of weren'tready for it.
And then we end with this songwhere you are breaking through.

Speaker 2 (01:32:29):
This is the way.

Speaker 4 (01:32:32):
But don't we feel?

Speaker 2 (01:32:32):
like that I mean we feel like that.

Speaker 1 (01:32:35):
We find the way, we do find the way, yeah, and we're
not angels.

Speaker 3 (01:32:40):
We're not angels.

Speaker 4 (01:32:41):
No, and there's something about when we actually
get to be who we are.

Speaker 1 (01:32:46):
That is kind of just, oh, my God Right, just this,
rock on.
Yeah, you know, this is the way.
Freedom, it's so freedom.
Yeah, it's so freedom and it is.
It is remarkable that music canbe a way of feeling it and
experiencing it and talkingabout it, and I mean, that's
what the beauty this, thispodcast, is incredible.

(01:33:06):
Like Like this concept isincredible.
It's therapeutic to think aboutone's life this way.

Speaker 4 (01:33:13):
There are connections and, yeah, yeah, I'll ask, as
we've just completed all yoursongs, like, how does, now that
you've just like done it all,how does it feel to hear your
life reflected in these sixsongs?

Speaker 1 (01:33:31):
It feels like I am the most at home with myself
that I have ever been, and thesesongs help me understand why I
love that.

Speaker 5 (01:33:44):
That's awesome, I love that it's beautiful.
Oh my God, that's probably oneof the best answers to that
question yet that's awesome.
I love that.
It's beautiful.

Speaker 1 (01:33:50):
Oh, my God.

Speaker 5 (01:33:50):
That's probably one of the best answers to that
question yet.

Speaker 3 (01:33:52):
Yeah, yeah, that's get ready.
That's going to be a reel onInstagram, for sure.
That is the tagline one for theshow Love, that that's awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:34:04):
Along with what's the hashtag.

Speaker 3 (01:34:08):
Oh shoot, friendly possession, friend shoot
friendly possession.

Speaker 4 (01:34:11):
What was it again?
It's like I was like pleasantpossession, friendly, possession
friendly, yeah go back to thevideo.

Speaker 1 (01:34:18):
Yeah, I'm worried about.
It's like no, we've got arecording we got it, you got it,
you got it all, david, you gotit absolutely, absolutely you
are an amazing group of humans.
This is an incredible gift.
I I just I am so thankful forthis experience.
It's it makes me feel a lot ofjoy and gratitude to have walked

(01:34:39):
this journey with you all mygosh.

Speaker 3 (01:34:41):
Yeah, thank you, and we are equally as grateful for
you being a part of it so thankyou for picking a really fucking
amazing six song list.

Speaker 5 (01:34:51):
Honestly, start to finish.
It's been just badass.

Speaker 3 (01:34:54):
And full disclosure, raza and Carolina, because you
just see the finished six.
There was like three, fourothers.
That it was a tough, was it?

Speaker 4 (01:35:02):
a tough choice.

Speaker 2 (01:35:03):
It was tough to narrow down.

Speaker 3 (01:35:04):
One of the more tough ones, not just for, like, the
songs of like oh I'd love to getthat song in there but for the
stories.
There was a number of differentthings we could have put in
here.
But, like we said, part of thisin my healing journey has been
learning to not overthink things, and so I just trust and know
that it's right and not say, oh,I should have done it the other
way or something, because lookwhat happened and how beautiful

(01:35:26):
it was.

Speaker 1 (01:35:29):
So, and thank you to all the music makers in the
world, everybody that has playedany part in any component of
getting any song, lyric,beautiful experience out there
into the world like blessings onyou all because, like clearly
it is just, it's fundamental tothe human experience, right
absolutely.

Speaker 3 (01:35:45):
We're not quite done.
Yet, though we do.

Speaker 5 (01:35:47):
Oh ross, well, you're just gonna do it you're just
gonna dive in, so no, so, no,dave, I was gonna kind of throw
a bit of a monkey wrench, but Iwas gonna run it by you first.
This is just.

Speaker 3 (01:35:57):
It just came to me go for it um follow your soul is
this a big scary?

Speaker 1 (01:36:05):
thing, because if this is a big scary thing, you
got to do it, you got to do itAll right, should I be?
Scared.

Speaker 5 (01:36:11):
No, no, no not at all .
So I think I totally disruptedDave's intro to this, but I had
to say it.
So typically we do like alightning round, okay, and our
lightning round is usually thequestion.
I'll ask the question what wasyour first, your last or and
your most, you know?

Speaker 1 (01:36:29):
and when I tell you one of these, I'm gonna lose all
musical credibility too when Itell you one of my answers.

Speaker 5 (01:36:35):
But okay, but here's the thing I was thinking about
throwing a monkey wrench intothis whole thing, which is why I
got excited, which is why I'mgonna run with it, and I was
like you're our first.
I think you're our.
Yeah, you're, you know,canadian, our neighbor from up
north.

Speaker 1 (01:36:50):
Oh shit Okay.

Speaker 5 (01:36:51):
And given, okay, given.
That, can I just say tragicallyhip and leave it at that.
Like can I avoid the?

Speaker 1 (01:36:57):
whole hot scene and just say the tragically hip and
like we're covered, Okay, no.

Speaker 5 (01:37:00):
Well, I was going to say, given that you know our
friendly neighbors to the northhave given us so much fantastic
music and, frankly, you knowDavid's favorite drummer, rush
Neil Peart.

Speaker 3 (01:37:13):
Yeah, just people in general.

Speaker 5 (01:37:16):
Favorite people.
We're both hockey dads.
I mean, come on, you can't gowrong.
I was going to throw you alittle bit of a monkey wrench
and say, hey, just lightninground your top five.
You know favorite, favoritebands, but canadian bands, and
this is where I told you I'mgonna lose like all musical
credibility.

Speaker 1 (01:37:33):
Okay, okay so let me do in an unranked order sure
okay, well, tragically, hip rush, um.
And then I just want to give ashout out to, like my friends,
band pacifica.
They like world world music,juno nominated.
That's like a big deal Canadianaward.
And now I'm just like I guess Imean, do you have to say Brian

(01:38:00):
Adams?
You have to say Brian Adams,right.

Speaker 2 (01:38:02):
Yes, that's what Rosa was hoping for.

Speaker 3 (01:38:06):
I think we're going to go.

Speaker 4 (01:38:06):
Alanis Morissette.
Actually, you know what Alanis?

Speaker 1 (01:38:10):
takes me back to my Smashing Pumpkins days.
That was number two.
Yeah, 100%.
I love Alanis.
I mean, you know, TaylorHawkins, May he Rest, actually
was a drummer for her.
So, you know all blessings, butit takes me back to that time.
But I feel like I need to givea shout out to like 5440 from

(01:38:32):
back in like the early 90s.
Maybe I don't know if that'slike familiar to anybody.
So is that five?

Speaker 2 (01:38:36):
Can I get?

Speaker 5 (01:38:36):
off the hot seat.

Speaker 3 (01:38:37):
It is way too hot, as we make you speak for all
Canadians, I know.

Speaker 1 (01:38:45):
I speak for one human who has come to music way too
late and no, I don't want to saywait at the perfect time in her
life.
Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 3 (01:38:54):
Yeah, yeah, and that's the whole point of the
show is to your.
We're all speaking forourselves.
We're judgment free.

Speaker 1 (01:39:00):
So it's just what comes up for you, although I saw
Roz's little moment there.

Speaker 5 (01:39:04):
Cause Brian Adams, come on, you can't go wrong with
Brian Adams come on.
You can't go wrong with BrianAdams.

Speaker 4 (01:39:08):
What's wrong with Brian Adams?
You like Brian.

Speaker 3 (01:39:09):
Adams, that's what Russ is saying.
I think he's saying you can'tgo wrong with it.

Speaker 1 (01:39:13):
I got to say I do the Summer of 69 math because I was
born in 75.
And it's funny because there'sages and there's these concrete
things and it's a song I grew upwith, of course, in the 80s,
but it's weird how old I feelwhen I listen to that song.

Speaker 2 (01:39:26):
Now I didn't feel that old like back in the day
when I listened to it but it's aclassic.

Speaker 1 (01:39:31):
It's a classic Totally, totally.

Speaker 4 (01:39:33):
Can't go wrong.
Well, before we sign off andkind of end things, we have just
a couple minutes left and Iwant to make sure that we give
you the floor to tell folks whoare listening or watching what
you've got going on or you knowanything, or watching what
you've got going on, or you knowanything that might be
interesting that you want toshare with folks.
Floor is yours.

Speaker 1 (01:39:52):
Okay, cool, thanks.
What do I have going on?
Well, I'm actually reallyexcited about this book project.
Ryan and I got a solid startlast year and then he just had a
lot of incredible opportunitieswith work and his own career,
but we're definitely going toget back on track with that.
It's been a really interestingprocess because we are writing
it as a braided memoir, and it'sinteresting when we see these
beats that we hit throughout ourlives, throughout our ages and

(01:40:14):
stages.

Speaker 3 (01:40:15):
But Can you briefly tell us and our listeners what a
braided memoir is?

Speaker 1 (01:40:20):
Well, I'm calling it that.
I mean, I work in publishing Ishould know if that's what it's
actually called.
But essentially how we'retackling it is, we're kind of
looking at themes.
Our goal is to have it to belike a sort of motivational,
inspirational kind of a thing aswell, with like some activities
and things for folks to work on.
But how we envision it is thatwe each write a portion of the
chapter and we kind of take atheme or a topic.

(01:40:40):
We look at the arc of our livesand it's remarkable, the
synchronicity.
So even though you know, in thefirst chapter, for example, I'm
sharing a lot of the story thatI talked about, now Ryan is
talking about being that 10, 11year old kid that gets like.
You know, that gets the job andgets that and and I also braid
into that my experience in thelessons and coming to lessons at

(01:41:02):
an older age, and he talksabout his experience meeting,
you know, and he has students ofall ages, but there was very
something, something veryspecial about like the
connection that we made for thisjourney, and so that's how we
imagine braiding it together issome past things that you know,
where he grew up, on VancouverIsland too, which is interesting

(01:41:23):
, so nice yeah, I love that, soso we have a book to look out
for in the future.

Speaker 5 (01:41:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:41:29):
I've set it here.

Speaker 4 (01:41:31):
There you go.

Speaker 2 (01:41:31):
You put it out, I put it, yeah, it's on.
Now it's on.

Speaker 3 (01:41:35):
It's the next scary thing we're leaning into.

Speaker 1 (01:41:37):
Yeah, right, yeah, be friendly possessed by it?
Yeah, I will, absolutely.
That is going to.
Just that is going to take off.
I know that's going to.
It's gonna.

Speaker 3 (01:41:46):
yeah, it's going to happen.
Jen, thank you so much forspending these, you know, these
few hours with us, but really,you know, opening up your life
to us and and sharing thesestories and these moving moments
marked by by music.
Uh, we are very grateful forthat, and so we thank you for
being on.

Speaker 1 (01:42:07):
Thank you, I I am forever grateful for being on.
Thank you, I am forevergrateful for this experience.
Thank you all.

Speaker 3 (01:42:11):
Awesome, Awesome.
All right, everybody, you knowwhat to do.
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