August 23, 2024 • 39 mins
Have you ever felt the profound beauty and sorrow that nature's soundscapes can evoke? Join us in a heartfelt conversation with Martyn Stewart from A Life in Sound and composer Peter Hall as they talk about their new collaboration called Loved & Lost.
‘Loved and Lost’ is a heartfelt tribute to the beauty of our natural world and a poignant reflection on its fragility and potential degradation. Each track is a narrative, echoing the intricate connections within ecosystems, the delicate balance that sustains them plus a subtle, yet powerful commentary on the looming threats of environmental degradation and climate change.
This album is ultimately a love letter, but one that also expresses profound grief. Nature is our greatest healer, and she urgently needs our love to be restored to health.
Peter shares his journey of connecting deeply with the oceanic world through music. Discover how he blends melodies with natural soundscapes to authentically portray the interconnectedness of nature and humanity, reflecting the grief and loss caused by environmental degradation. Prepare to be moved as we aim to foster a genuine emotional connection and highlight the urgent need for environmental awareness and action.
Explore the powerful intersection of music and activism in our discussion on how soundscapes and melodies convey potent messages. From personal grief to shared environmental concerns, we delve into the emotional layers embedded in music, emphasizing the importance of authenticity and a mission larger than personal gain. Their conversation underscores the collaborative effort to raise awareness about the planet's struggles, particularly the ocean's plight, and the importance of creating music that not only touches hearts but also inspires action.
Together they discuss the complex interplay between public awareness, cultural perceptions, and activism, and emphasize the need for empathy and self-love. From the irony of chasing material wealth at the expense of environmental health to the simple joys that nature provides, we encourage our listeners to immerse themselves in the natural world. Tune in to the "Listening Planet" podcast and join us in fostering a deeper appreciation for the environment and a stronger commitment to protecting it.
www.thelisteningplanet.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Martyn Stewart (00:01):
This is Martn Stewart with A Life in Sound
from the Listening Planet, inpartnership with Biophonica
Beats.
Thank you.
Peter Hall (01:26):
I guess the process.
For me it wasn't really when Igot the sounds, it was when we
spoke.
I think that's when it started.
For me because I didn't reallyhave an idea of what we were
going to do and what it was allabout, and it was more about you
and how I connect with you,because the sounds are a
(01:51):
extension of you in your life.
For me it's more that sort ofthing and kind of gain an idea
of your feelings around nature,your passion, um, your fears and
all the rest of it, so that wecan put all of that into it,
because otherwise it's just methinking what's a pretty sound,
(02:11):
whereas I wanted it to meansomething and I know that
there's an element of we want to, or you guys want to, raise
awareness around the strugglethat the planet is in and nature
is in.
So that sort of informed, myidea around how I was going to
approach the music side of it,and then, speaking to you, that
(02:33):
sort of passion come across fromyou, sort of informed where I
was going, and I knew that Iwanted to highlight the beauty,
but also the sadness and thereality of what's happening.
Martyn Stewart (02:45):
The darkness, yeah, the darkness, because I'd
rather I just want to tell thetruth and I think you're brave
for doing it, because I thinkyou're one of those only artists
very few artists that want towalk into the dark side of
things, because you know there'salways that end button, that
(03:06):
stop button or switch oversomething and we start feeling
uncomfortable.
But you took it, you know, bythe, by the horns and just went
with it that's what I lovedabout the.
Peter Hall (03:19):
That's why I said that the conversation that we
had the first time around, thatwas what really I was like
you're on the same page as that,like you appreciate walking
into it rather than let's faceinto it, rather than the
pretense that everything's allright and I, I love that.
That's like my approach to lifeanyway, so I I wanted that to
be part of it.
(03:40):
So once we sort of came up withthe idea of, like let's tell
the story, let's let's show thebeauty but the horror at the
same time.
Basically, there's nothingwrong with doing that.
Let's be honest, that sort ofinformed then structure and how
I was going to.
I wanted to tell that story fromstart to finish.
Me that made sense that wewould incorporate ocean scapes,
(04:08):
the sound of the ocean, wavesand everything.
And then we spoke about it andyou were like, yeah, well, we
could have it going out to seaso we can have being on the
coast but then coming into, likethe sound of gulls as you go
further out, and then, if we gointo the deep ocean, the sound
of like dolphins and whales, andthen sort of exploring their
(04:28):
sounds and the beauty aroundthat and then into the darker
side, which is was theslaughterer at.
Martyn Stewart (04:36):
Taiji yeah.
Peter Hall (04:38):
So actually, even though when I'm saying it sounds
like a fucking big project, itwasn't.
Once I got the sounds and Iknew that I wanted it as a
journey like that, I didn't findit hard, it just sort of flowed
.
Of all the tracks I've donewith your sounds, it's the one
(05:00):
that's flowed the most, probablybecause I have an affinity with
the ocean through surfing andstuff, and I love the ocean.
I love how it makes me feel.
So I've got a connection withit in terms of how it raises my
mood and makes me feel great andI always feel like when I go
into the sea it's like I'm not areligious person, but it's like
being part of nature.
(05:21):
Yeah, being it's the closest youget, it's all over you and it
always felt.
I always feel like when I gounder it feels like a baptism,
it's like a start again everytime I go in.
So I love it, so maybe that'swhy it flowed like quite easily
for me the thing is, though,peter, with music and nature.
Martyn Stewart (05:40):
Normally you get a soundscape, something
beautiful from nature, and thena musician will play a piano or
put a soundtrack to it, and theydon't seem to join together,
and what you did is you joinedthose two feelings together and
it became one.
That's how it feels to me.
(06:01):
It's one of those tracks I'velistened to many, many times,
because you feel part of it.
You feel like you are in theocean, you feel like you are a
gold flying over those cliffs,and you feel like you are
something that's submerged intothe ocean and being a part of it
(06:24):
, and your music gave thosevibes completely.
I think you have to have thatlove, you have to have that
connection to be able to, to dosomething like that and be part
of that whole feeling this is toknow what it's.
Peter Hall (06:40):
It's been a really profound, quite challenging
experience, like, obviouslywe're talking about ocean, but
it forms part of a bigger bodyof work that we're working on to
kind of cover all the majorbiomes with a similar story
around, basically beauty andloss.
And the reason why maybe youfeel that, like you said, you
(07:04):
feel like there's a connectionbetween the music and the reason
why maybe you feel that, likeyou said you probably you feel
like you're there's a connectionbetween the music and the
sounds they don't just sit ontop of each other and there's a
lot of feeling in there, is that, as the time's gone on with the
whole project, I've realizedthat the project is about.
It's about grief and loss, andI've experienced a lot of that
in my life, so has everyone, I'msure.
(07:24):
It's a very human experienceand what I realized, what I feel
about nature now, is that we'vespent hundreds and hundreds of
years othering it, making it sodisconnected from us so that we
can abuse it, because if we, ifwe, realize that nature is us,
we wouldn't be able to abuse itin the way that we do so.
(07:47):
For me now, the project hasbecome a thing of saying trying
to bridge that gap again andsaying we are one, it's, we're
not separate from it, andprobably grief and loss is the
most human experience, and so ifI apply it to nature, we can
say it's not a human experience,it's.
(08:08):
It's an experience for all of us, like I feel, if, if we hurt,
if I hurt another person, I'mgonna.
It's like hurting myself in thesame way as if I hurt the
planet or nature, I'm hurtingmyself, because we all are
interconnected and rely on eachother.
That's why I've put so muchfeeling into it, I think, is
that I want to express my owngrief and loss, my own personal
(08:29):
experience of it, but connect itwith the planet, because
actually the planet or nature orwhatever you want to call it,
has helped me process a lot ofmy feelings around loss, and so
I will be forever indebted to itfor that.
Being in the sea, being in aforest, walking through a field,
(08:50):
whatever it is, I just I nowget it.
I get that we're all one now.
It just it's like a awakeningit's um, it's real.
Martyn Stewart (09:01):
it seems like in 50 years we've done so much
damage and planet being, youknow, billions of years old and
you know we all went throughthese things as a kid and your
mom and your dad would say itwas never like this.
When I was a kid, you know, andso there has been changes in
(09:22):
generations, but it seems likein my lifetime there's so much
just happened.
Here's a question With yourmusic.
Your music has touched me to agreat extent for what you've
done and I kind of connect withthat because of my activism.
It resonates with me a lot,maybe a lot more than you know
(09:45):
another artist just doing somebeautiful, melodious stuff.
I have more of a connectionwith yours because it's given a
message that I'm trying to putout there.
My idea in my archive is thatit's showing people a change in
50 years and your music gave anextension of that and allowed me
(10:06):
to introduce activism intomusic as well as just birdsong
or frog singing or chorusing orsoundscapes.
Do you have a fear that themessage would turn people off?
Peter Hall (10:19):
It's a hard one.
I genuinely think it's probablycommercial suicide.
To be honest, you know like I'mbeing honest.
Martyn Stewart (10:28):
And I want you to be honest because of I
thought of all the bravenessthat you're doing.
Peter Hall (10:34):
I can't.
I, I can't live any other waynow.
I I mean if, if we'd done thiswhen I was younger, I would have
been thinking You'd have beenfucked Well, I wouldn't.
I, when I was younger, I wouldhave been thinking You'd have
been fucked Well, I wouldn'thave done it.
I would have done it in acompletely different way.
I would have been like right,how can I incorporate this sound
but also make something thatpeople are going to really like?
And then I can get popular offit and, you don't know, people
(10:59):
might love it.
People do love listening tomelancholic music.
I think if you don't tell themwhat it's about, maybe people
will be drawn to it anyway,because we like to.
When it's hard to process one'sfeelings, music's a great place
to go.
Like I I don't know how toprocess how sad I am, but I can
listen to I don't know larkascended.
(11:21):
I know that's one of yourfavourite tracks and I can cry
and let it come out.
And so, musically on its own,maybe people would be drawn to
it and enjoy it.
But if we really tell peoplewhat it's about, maybe people
will be turned off.
But I don't care, I'd ratherone person listen to it and get
it.
The other side of it I reallywanted to talk about because
(11:44):
it's definitely come to my mind.
I'm on the third track now and Iit's definitely this grief and
loss thing is definitely comingup, and I think the other part
of it is like you mentioned,that what you liked is that I'm
kind of aligning myself withyour mission.
Yeah, but that's to me, that'sthe whole point in this working
together.
Right, it's, it's not about myego, it's about you've offered
(12:06):
up these wicked sounds.
How can I interpret what you'retrying to say and your message
is important and I'm aligningwith that.
That's wicked.
But also for me, I think on apersonal level, there's so many
layers to this.
Now where you've got you know,there's no way that my own grief
and loss about stuff in my lifeis definitely in there.
(12:28):
There's also my feelings, aboutmy shared feelings with you
about environment and the angeraround, just feeling like you're
just shouting into like a voidand the madness of it all.
But also on a personal levelwith you is now I know you and
(12:48):
you're sharing these sounds withme, but also I know that you're
going through your illness.
Is that I feel a grief and lossaround you as well, and I
wanted to, I wanted to, I wantedto do your life's work proud.
You know what I mean.
It's important.
Martyn Stewart (13:03):
It's important and you have done, mate, you
have done.
It's a, a set of music that'stouched my heart deeply and it's
it's another way of getting amessage out, or information out
to those people who don't knowabout it or probably refuse to
listen to it, but and listen toit in a different language.
(13:24):
You know the, the, the troublesand the toils of what happens
in the ocean.
I don't think it's the story'stold enough.
There's.
There's that thing that's sointeresting in what you're just
talking about how we disconnectso we can hate it, and if we saw
ourselves in them we wouldn't'tdo that.
The Taiji story is practicallyfatigued.
(13:48):
When it was in its infancy,when it was discovered what was
happening in that small villageby 28, 29 different people, it's
not the country, you know, thecountry didn't know much about
it, but thousands and thousandsof people were shocked, right,
that you could kill a sentientbeing like a dolphin.
(14:11):
I mean, we associate a dolphinlike Flipper you're brought up
with, you know, and thatmisconception that they have a
smile, you know, is theirdownfall, because you think it's
a lovable animal.
You can go and beat the shitout of a crow or whatever,
because we don't have thatassociation with them, but a
(14:33):
dolphin connects to everybodyelse.
So I thought when rico barrymade that film the cove, that
once the western world put thepressure on japan, it would end
the slaughter.
And then, over a period of time,the story got told and it it
almost got fatigued and peoplewere getting fed up.
Then the story went back tothem.
(14:56):
Well, let's use science as a,as a method of trying to stop
the slaughter, by saying ifyou're killing the dolphins and
you're eating the dolphins,there's a huge content of
mercury in in those, which isdamaging your own health.
And it kind of peaked a littleand it got traction and then it
(15:17):
just went off again.
Well, it's a bunch of poppycock.
And now there was a saying atthe time once the world gets to
know about Taiji, it won't be asecret anymore.
You know it will stop.
Well, it's still happening.
And your music is another way,I think, of being able to tell
(15:40):
the world.
Listen to it from a differentvoice.
Peter Hall (15:44):
We're not just using animal cruelty or we're not
using science now, we're usingmusic yeah, and it's not about
scaring people either, like it'snot about trying to like
disturb people.
It I it's okay to feel sad iswhat I'm saying.
(16:05):
It's it's nothing to run awayfrom and I think that's the
thing.
Is that's why people turn theother cheek, is it's too
upsetting or it's too much forthem to comprehend, but it's not
.
You're not going to die from,like, looking at this thing or
understanding it better.
No one's saying you've got to goout and change the world, but
just let's raise the awareness,because the more we raise
(16:27):
awareness generally and I'm noteven talking about awareness
about what's happening in japanor the planet more widely I my
personal opinion is that thereason why no one wants to look
at this stuff but also turns theother cheek to a lot of other
stuff that's going on, is thatthere's a real lack of just
personal awareness.
(16:47):
When you're aware and peoplecall that an awakening or
whatever you want to call it,but if you've got a deep,
there's no way that you wouldn'tfeel pain when you see another
thing being hurt.
Martyn Stewart (16:59):
Absolutely true.
Peter Hall (17:01):
There's no way you wouldn't give a shit.
I can't look away anymore and Ican't not feel it and I can't
just be dismissive of it.
And I'm not scared to look atit either, because it's a truth
and that's okay, like I'm notgonna die by looking at it or
understanding it, but I want tobe better connected with with my
(17:21):
environment around me and andthe and the world and people,
because it's no different to youknow, the, the lack of
awareness just leads to.
That's why we have so many warsand all the rest of it, because
you wouldn't be brutalizingother people or the planet if
you looked within yourself a bitmore and realized that actually
(17:42):
, probably what everyone's doingis just running away from their
own feelings rather thanlooking at what's going on
within them.
If you can love yourself, youthen love everyone else, don't
you?
Martyn Stewart (17:53):
I think that's the key you have to be able to
love yourself first before youcan love, and you have to be
able to understand and lovesomething before you can
understand what it is.
Peter Hall (18:04):
You can't protect something you don't understand
but it's the irony is it's sosimple to understand, isn't it?
Because I don't?
I don't know what everything iscalled.
You sent it.
Because I don't I don't knowwhat everything is called.
You sent me loads of differentsounds.
I don't know what all theseanimals are.
I don't need to know theirnames.
I am them and they are me.
I know that.
That's fine.
That's all I need to know.
We're connected.
I've got your back.
Basically, you've got my back.
(18:26):
You know we need every.
I don't understand why peoplecan't understand how
interconnected we are, and theonly way that we've managed to
thrive in this world as a as aspecies, is because everything
was in balance and we neededthem, and all we've done is
abuse them.
And now, it's no surprise, it'sgone to shit and yeah, it's
(18:49):
just frustrating.
Martyn Stewart (18:50):
Do you see any any hope in in all honesty, not
not just a cliche or frustrating?
Do you see any hope In allhonesty, not just a cliche or
whatever?
Do you honestly think so manydocumentaries go towards you
know, show you the badness andstuff, and then they give you a
message of hope at the end and,by the way, you know, the
(19:15):
buffalo will live on forever anddo do this and they'll get
happily married in some chapelin south carolina.
Yeah do you think people willchange?
Peter Hall (19:23):
it's so hard because , like you said, don't do the
cliche and there's everythingwithin me pulling me to be like.
I don't want to be a negativeperson but in in a way, this is
going to sound a bit fucked up,but I don't know that it will
change.
I don't have full confidencethat it will.
I know that there is.
(19:45):
I have a faith that there is away out of it.
Whether we will follow it isanother matter.
Way out of it, whether we willfollow it is another matter.
But maybe that's the big globallesson for our species is that
maybe it is or maybe this is theend for us and there'll be
(20:07):
another.
There'll be another age lateron and we we've had to learn it
the hard way, and maybe that'sthe only positive thing to come
out of it is that people mightwake up.
It might be too late, but atleast people will be like, oh
okay you've got more faith thanI do, really, really do but
(20:28):
maybe that's a little bit ofdenial, mate, because because
I've read, because I've seenthose documentaries where they
go, if we just stop doing this,if we stopped having so many
babies, or if we just left, wedon't need to be doing rewilding
.
We just need to leave it andstep back because actually
(20:48):
nature can rewild itself.
We need to stop interfering.
Martyn Stewart (20:56):
Look at Chernobyl.
Peter Hall (20:57):
I know brilliant look at that, that that stuff
gives you hope and actually thewhat in a way.
I know this is not.
Obviously this is controversial.
Whatever, the thing I loveabout chernobyl is that the
animals that came back, they,they can survive.
They can survive there.
We can't because of what we'vedone like we can't be there for
(21:19):
too long because of theradiation right well there's.
Martyn Stewart (21:24):
There's something I always say if you
take nature away from man, wecan't survive.
If you take man away fromnature, they can survive they
can thrive, look, look at lookat covid with lockdown yeah look
how everything started comingback.
You started seeing swans and upthe river thames and you you got
(21:47):
dolphins coming up into ven.
Maybe that's the answer.
Maybe the answer is that mandestroys himself.
Maybe Nostradamus was right.
And it's not being DebbieDowner, it's not that, it's just
over my lifetime I've seen sucha huge demise.
(22:11):
And then you read about 80% ofwild lands gone in 50 years and
50 of wildlife gone in 50 years.
The science backs it up.
If we, if we can't change,we're looking at gloom and doom
and there's, there's nothingreally, where you know used to
say, well, we've got nothing toleave for our grandkids or our
(22:33):
kids and whatever, they don'tknow.
The world that this archivespoke speaks about.
You know, 50 years, they knowthe, the world coming into it,
you know, and they've gotreality tv or they've got
whatever.
The reality is.
If we don't look after whatwe've got now, we haven't got a
(22:54):
life to look forward to.
You know, later on, I don'tthink it's gloom and doom, I
just think it's reality.
It's like you say, if you stareat it enough, it may force you
to turn around and say I don'tneed the plastic bag to take two
items out to the car.
I don't need't need to keepturning up the dial and the
(23:14):
electric meter when I can justput another jumper on.
There's so many scenarios.
I don't need to drive that bigtruck down the road, I don't
need to be as wasteful.
The resources that we use inthe Western world far, far
outdoes anything in the poorcountries.
(23:35):
We use 70% more resources thanyou know the rest of the planet.
And it's crazy.
And the math is there and yetwe just can't seem to get past
the greed.
Peter Hall (23:52):
It's an addiction, isn't it?
The greed it's.
It's an addiction, isn't itreally?
Martyn Stewart (23:55):
it's an addiction.
Yeah, it is an addiction we're.
Peter Hall (23:58):
We've created a world where we can and I
understand it, because we alllive with pain and suffering is
inevitable and all of that isn'tit.
So we've created a world wherewe can really try and minimize
our suffering by giving us loadsof things to take our mind off
stuff, but instead of embracingit as a part of life and facing
(24:19):
into it.
That's why people have massivecars.
That's why people arematerialistic.
I don't even judge them on it.
It makes you feel good becauseyou feel shit inside.
So it makes you feel good.
I understand it.
But the problem with that is isthe consequences.
It's madness.
Everyone's running around alittle bit mad, following things
(24:43):
that make them feel good asmuch as they can.
So that's why we have so muchfood waste, or like the way we
eat food is just extreme, isn'tit?
Like it's not, it's notsustainable, um, and all the
materialistic stuff, all theconsumerism stuff, I get it.
I.
I don't judge anyone.
(25:04):
I understand.
I've got love for the love foryou, but you're running away
from your feelings and you'reusing that stuff and, as a
result, you're killingeverything.
And I don't.
It does sound depressing.
Maybe we are too grumpy oldgits, or but I don't feel
depressed about it.
(25:24):
I just I think what I think whenyou I don't feel depressed it's
a cliche, but when you acceptthe truth, like this is what's
happening, it's okay, like maybeit will be the end of us.
The best case scenario is theanimals live on and they have a
great time without it.
(25:45):
Maybe we will turn it aroundand maybe it will all change and
there'll be a great worldwideawakening.
But it doesn't feel like thatat the moment and maybe we're
just in another.
Like how many ages has theplanet had, you know?
Maybe we're just in thedownward turn of one and then
(26:06):
there'll be another one and ifwe leave just a little bit left
for it to grow again, I don'tknow, but I don't feel depressed
.
I don't really feel depressedabout it.
I just feel like probably themain feeling around it is, I
don't know, maybe likefrustration and anger that
people don't face I think mydepression comes from cruelty
(26:30):
and disregard.
Martyn Stewart (26:31):
I'm not depressed in myself.
I love being back in nature.
It gives me the greatestfeeling and it's almost like I
mean, it's free, you don't swipea credit card or you don't, you
know, go and withdraw in a bankto go and get those feelings.
It's brilliant, it's wonderful,and I suppose when you you see
(26:53):
man destroying the thing thatyou love the most, you turn that
resentment into a form ofhatred I get it, and I don't
like saying that because I'm not, you know, I'm not a negative
person, but, um, I'm veryprotective of the things I love
(27:13):
the most.
Peter Hall (27:14):
I found that that feeling has grown as I've got
older, for some reason and Idon't know whether that's
because I don't know what thatis where I've, maybe because the
more I look into myself andwork through the things that
I've been through, the more Imaybe, because actually probably
what it is is I blocked all thefeelings I ever had, squashed
(27:37):
them down.
There was no room for feelingsgrowing up, and now I'm
expressing them more or lookinginto them more.
Love and compassion and thosesort of positive and overt
combat feelings have been ableto come to the forefront Because
actually I had no feelings andthen, because they've come up, I
(27:59):
can I find that really hard tounderstand Because you're a
deeply emotional person.
They were always there, butthey've been blocked down and
now it all just comes out allover the place.
I can't control them now.
It's just like but the, the?
The irony is actually like whatyou're saying, you know, like
(28:19):
nature's free and when you enjoybeing around people, and but
there's a limit to that, andthen when you go out, you just
you feel yourself and I, I 100,completely identify with that.
And the irony is, like I wassaying earlier, everyone running
(28:40):
around trying to sort of notfeel their negative feelings,
and so they're.
They've got to get loads ofmoney and they've got to get the
car and they've got to get thejob and they've got to do all
this stuff that just bycoincidence has a negative
impact on the planet.
My way of processing my feelingsand and helping me with my
(29:03):
feelings is to go into natureand actually that that's.
That would be.
What might, that would be apossible way of changing things.
Is that, if people realize thatthe answer isn't chasing the
dollar, it's just being innature and helping it or
(29:25):
whatever that's going to giveyou that peace that you're
looking for.
It's not over there withconsuming more, it's over here.
It was always there.
That was the gift of nature isthat it was always there.
We didn't really have to doanything.
They look after it themselves.
(29:46):
We just have to respect it andand we can enjoy it for free.
And I guess, taking it back tothe track because we've gone,
that's probably why there's somuch emotion in it, because I
did want to bring in howimportant it is to me, how I
(30:07):
feel so deeply about it, into it, whilst also the sadness I feel
that we're destroying it at thesame time, to try and hopefully
that can connect with someoneand they can think shit yeah,
really, that's how I feelsomewhat and they can think shit
, yeah, that's how.
Really that's how I feel, likethe thought of you can't listen
(30:27):
to those sounds that yourecorded of the dolphins getting
slaughtered and not cry, eventhough they're kind of abstract.
Martyn Stewart (30:34):
I can't, it's too much sometimes I would say
the majority of people wouldprobably feel those emotions.
But there's a lot of people whohave a different kind of
feeling to those.
I've seen them and I don'tunderstand them, you know.
Peter Hall (30:51):
Don't you think that if you don't feel anything, you
can't, you're not going to?
Are they numbing their feelings?
Martyn Stewart (30:58):
Maybe they are.
You know, there's so manystrange, strange things that has
been said to me in my life.
And you know, recently it tookme 30 years to stop eating
animals and yet my brother wasat me all the time.
You know why?
Why do you love animals so muchand you eat them?
And I used to.
That was my way of denial.
(31:20):
And then it wasn't until thatseed germinated that I thought
what the hell am I doing?
What am I doing?
And it was just like night andday.
And then when you talk about itto other people I try to not
preach, I just drop those littleseeds that my brother was doing
(31:40):
to me and I thought that wasgreat.
I just dropped those littleseeds that my brother was doing
to me and I thought that wasgreat.
But like a statement when thehorse meat was was out and
prevalent about, I remembertalking to this one woman saying
she's saying you know there'shorse in the burger, you know
there's a cow in there too, andit's.
It's that kind of disconnect.
It's the.
What the heck I?
(32:08):
I went.
It's that kind of disconnect.
It's that.
What the heck I?
Um, I went to um, to china to,to try and educate people about
the dog meat festival and peopleon the west couldn't understand
that people on that side of theworld was eating dogs because
they're pets.
And what's the differencebetween a dog and a cow and a
(32:28):
pig and a chicken?
There's no difference.
So it's just that level ofacceptance and what we want to
accept.
We can't understand why someonewants to eat a dog or a cat
while they're talking into a pig.
I it's.
(32:50):
It's bullshit.
It's bullshit.
They're all.
They all have central nervoussystem and they all suffer pain.
And they, you know they, if you.
I think Paul McCartney saidonce that if slaughterhouses had
glass windows, we'd all becomevegetarian.
Peter Hall (33:09):
Yeah, it's, that's just.
I don't even have the energy tobe sort of angry about it.
It's just sort of a resignedfeeling of just how can you not
see?
That's just a cultural thing.
It's just like over here, forwhatever reason, someone
(33:29):
marketed it to us and we werelike yeah cow, let's eat them.
Martyn Stewart (33:33):
But it could have easily been dog, it could
have been and yet you thinkabout it, the the amount of
damage that I'm not condoningthis, but eating a dog, as to
farming a cow, the damage on theplanet for just its existence
is far greater than the dog.
(33:54):
And yet, because we have thisassociation with a pet, we don't
see the deforestation of theamazonian rainforest to grow
crops to feed the cow, to feedthe house, to do blah, blah,
blah.
Peter Hall (34:11):
We're just in completely denial I I honestly
think the world generally walksaround in huge denial about
loads of things like, whetherwhether it's about nature or
about the human experience, likeyour own human experience
denial is a brilliant copingmechanism that's hardwired into
(34:32):
us.
I don't have any judgment aboutit, like I've definitely had a
lot of denial in a way of copingwith trauma and abuse and
things like that, and I justthink, in order for us to be
able to abuse the planet oranimals in the way that we do,
we have to have that next leveldenial and like.
(34:53):
For me, like that comes from,it's no different.
For me, it's no different fromhow, in colonial times, the only
way you could brutalize anotherin like indigenous people, was
to other them and make them nothuman.
And I just think we that's how,because if, if I, I couldn't, I
(35:16):
physically as a human, couldn'tmurder or brutalize another
human being if I see myself inthem.
So we have to like that is sotrue you have to complete.
You couldn't murder someone ifyou saw your yourself in them,
and you can't.
And we couldn't eat animals onthe extent that we do.
(35:38):
We couldn't burn down theforest to the extent we do.
We couldn't fish in the mostbrutalized way that we do if we
saw that we are actually we arethem.
So we have to say they'reseparate, they're just a
commodity it's.
We've just commoditized like Idon't even know if that's a word
(35:59):
but we've commoditized orobjectified nature so that we
can then just rinse it for allits worth.
Martyn Stewart (36:09):
Have an excuse to destroy it.
I had this tattoo done, youknow, years ago, with a dog and
a cow and no difference,difference.
And it was a real funny thing.
When I was in um in china, thisone woman, through a translator
, she said that, um, you comeand you have dog, and I said I'm
(36:30):
not knocking you for eating dog, but I don't need animal.
And I showed her the tattoo nodifference.
And through the interpreter,she said yes, you're right,
there's no difference, they bothtaste the same they're both
lovely to eat both nice sweets.
(36:52):
I thought okay oh dear so I'llI'll wrap up and by saying that,
by saying that I love thetracks, I absolutely love it,
and to me it's a special,special soundtrack, because it's
(37:14):
so close to my heart and itdoes evoke a lot of emotions.
Peter Hall (37:21):
Mate, I'm so happy that you feel that way, because
I genuinely think you're abloody legend and what you do.
I'll get off with you and Iwanted, I wanted to do right by
you.
Martyn Stewart (37:32):
Well you, you went surpass that mate.
You shot down the road in aMorgan.
Peter Hall (37:40):
Well, that'd be nice .
Um yeah, I'm so glad and andI'm it's the most, it's the most
personal thing I've ever done.
It's the hardest thing I'veever done well, it's amazing.
Martyn Stewart (37:54):
It's amazing it it feels.
You say it's the hardest thingyou've ever done.
I think it's probably the mostnatural thing you've ever done.
Peter Hall (38:04):
Yeah, it's actually just giving in and just going.
This is who I am, I don't needto worry about I'm not even you
know.
You said earlier like about oh,do you think people will turn
away and not listen?
And I'm not even worried aboutit.
It's almost like doing it foran audience of one.
It's like I'm just let's do it.
(38:24):
We're doing something we wantto do.
Who gives a shit like I want itto mean something and I
definitely wanted to dosomething that kind of valued
your work as well.
So well it's brilliant mate.
Martyn Stewart (38:42):
Mate, it's absolutely brilliant and I thank
you from my heart.
Peter Hall (38:46):
Nice one, mate.
I love chatting to you.
Martyn Stewart (38:48):
I love chatting to you too, such a cool guy.
You've just experienced anotherjourney on the listening planet
(39:17):
podcast.
Dive deeper into the world ofnatural sounds by connecting
with us online, visit ourwebsite or follow us on social
media.
Let the symphony of naturesurround you wherever you go.
Happy listening.
This is Martn Stewart with A Life in Sound
from the Listening Planet, inpartnership with Biophonica
Beats.
Thank you.
Peter Hall (01:26):
I guess the process.
For me it wasn't really when Igot the sounds, it was when we
spoke.
I think that's when it started.
For me because I didn't reallyhave an idea of what we were
going to do and what it was allabout, and it was more about you
and how I connect with you,because the sounds are a
(01:51):
extension of you in your life.
For me it's more that sort ofthing and kind of gain an idea
of your feelings around nature,your passion, um, your fears and
all the rest of it, so that wecan put all of that into it,
because otherwise it's just methinking what's a pretty sound,
(02:11):
whereas I wanted it to meansomething and I know that
there's an element of we want to, or you guys want to, raise
awareness around the strugglethat the planet is in and nature
is in.
So that sort of informed, myidea around how I was going to
approach the music side of it,and then, speaking to you, that
(02:33):
sort of passion come across fromyou, sort of informed where I
was going, and I knew that Iwanted to highlight the beauty,
but also the sadness and thereality of what's happening.
Martyn Stewart (02:45):
The darkness, yeah, the darkness, because I'd
rather I just want to tell thetruth and I think you're brave
for doing it, because I thinkyou're one of those only artists
very few artists that want towalk into the dark side of
things, because you know there'salways that end button, that
(03:06):
stop button or switch oversomething and we start feeling
uncomfortable.
But you took it, you know, bythe, by the horns and just went
with it that's what I lovedabout the.
Peter Hall (03:19):
That's why I said that the conversation that we
had the first time around, thatwas what really I was like
you're on the same page as that,like you appreciate walking
into it rather than let's faceinto it, rather than the
pretense that everything's allright and I, I love that.
That's like my approach to lifeanyway, so I I wanted that to
be part of it.
(03:40):
So once we sort of came up withthe idea of, like let's tell
the story, let's let's show thebeauty but the horror at the
same time.
Basically, there's nothingwrong with doing that.
Let's be honest, that sort ofinformed then structure and how
I was going to.
I wanted to tell that story fromstart to finish.
Me that made sense that wewould incorporate ocean scapes,
(04:08):
the sound of the ocean, wavesand everything.
And then we spoke about it andyou were like, yeah, well, we
could have it going out to seaso we can have being on the
coast but then coming into, likethe sound of gulls as you go
further out, and then, if we gointo the deep ocean, the sound
of like dolphins and whales, andthen sort of exploring their
(04:28):
sounds and the beauty aroundthat and then into the darker
side, which is was theslaughterer at.
Martyn Stewart (04:36):
Taiji yeah.
Peter Hall (04:38):
So actually, even though when I'm saying it sounds
like a fucking big project, itwasn't.
Once I got the sounds and Iknew that I wanted it as a
journey like that, I didn't findit hard, it just sort of flowed
.
Of all the tracks I've donewith your sounds, it's the one
(05:00):
that's flowed the most, probablybecause I have an affinity with
the ocean through surfing andstuff, and I love the ocean.
I love how it makes me feel.
So I've got a connection withit in terms of how it raises my
mood and makes me feel great andI always feel like when I go
into the sea it's like I'm not areligious person, but it's like
being part of nature.
(05:21):
Yeah, being it's the closest youget, it's all over you and it
always felt.
I always feel like when I gounder it feels like a baptism,
it's like a start again everytime I go in.
So I love it, so maybe that'swhy it flowed like quite easily
for me the thing is, though,peter, with music and nature.
Martyn Stewart (05:40):
Normally you get a soundscape, something
beautiful from nature, and thena musician will play a piano or
put a soundtrack to it, and theydon't seem to join together,
and what you did is you joinedthose two feelings together and
it became one.
That's how it feels to me.
(06:01):
It's one of those tracks I'velistened to many, many times,
because you feel part of it.
You feel like you are in theocean, you feel like you are a
gold flying over those cliffs,and you feel like you are
something that's submerged intothe ocean and being a part of it
(06:24):
, and your music gave thosevibes completely.
I think you have to have thatlove, you have to have that
connection to be able to, to dosomething like that and be part
of that whole feeling this is toknow what it's.
Peter Hall (06:40):
It's been a really profound, quite challenging
experience, like, obviouslywe're talking about ocean, but
it forms part of a bigger bodyof work that we're working on to
kind of cover all the majorbiomes with a similar story
around, basically beauty andloss.
And the reason why maybe youfeel that, like you said, you
(07:04):
feel like there's a connectionbetween the music and the reason
why maybe you feel that, likeyou said you probably you feel
like you're there's a connectionbetween the music and the
sounds they don't just sit ontop of each other and there's a
lot of feeling in there, is that, as the time's gone on with the
whole project, I've realizedthat the project is about.
It's about grief and loss, andI've experienced a lot of that
in my life, so has everyone, I'msure.
(07:24):
It's a very human experienceand what I realized, what I feel
about nature now, is that we'vespent hundreds and hundreds of
years othering it, making it sodisconnected from us so that we
can abuse it, because if we, ifwe, realize that nature is us,
we wouldn't be able to abuse itin the way that we do so.
(07:47):
For me now, the project hasbecome a thing of saying trying
to bridge that gap again andsaying we are one, it's, we're
not separate from it, andprobably grief and loss is the
most human experience, and so ifI apply it to nature, we can
say it's not a human experience,it's.
(08:08):
It's an experience for all of us, like I feel, if, if we hurt,
if I hurt another person, I'mgonna.
It's like hurting myself in thesame way as if I hurt the
planet or nature, I'm hurtingmyself, because we all are
interconnected and rely on eachother.
That's why I've put so muchfeeling into it, I think, is
that I want to express my owngrief and loss, my own personal
(08:29):
experience of it, but connect itwith the planet, because
actually the planet or nature orwhatever you want to call it,
has helped me process a lot ofmy feelings around loss, and so
I will be forever indebted to itfor that.
Being in the sea, being in aforest, walking through a field,
(08:50):
whatever it is, I just I nowget it.
I get that we're all one now.
It just it's like a awakeningit's um, it's real.
Martyn Stewart (09:01):
it seems like in 50 years we've done so much
damage and planet being, youknow, billions of years old and
you know we all went throughthese things as a kid and your
mom and your dad would say itwas never like this.
When I was a kid, you know, andso there has been changes in
(09:22):
generations, but it seems likein my lifetime there's so much
just happened.
Here's a question With yourmusic.
Your music has touched me to agreat extent for what you've
done and I kind of connect withthat because of my activism.
It resonates with me a lot,maybe a lot more than you know
(09:45):
another artist just doing somebeautiful, melodious stuff.
I have more of a connectionwith yours because it's given a
message that I'm trying to putout there.
My idea in my archive is thatit's showing people a change in
50 years and your music gave anextension of that and allowed me
(10:06):
to introduce activism intomusic as well as just birdsong
or frog singing or chorusing orsoundscapes.
Do you have a fear that themessage would turn people off?
Peter Hall (10:19):
It's a hard one.
I genuinely think it's probablycommercial suicide.
To be honest, you know like I'mbeing honest.
Martyn Stewart (10:28):
And I want you to be honest because of I
thought of all the bravenessthat you're doing.
Peter Hall (10:34):
I can't.
I, I can't live any other waynow.
I I mean if, if we'd done thiswhen I was younger, I would have
been thinking You'd have beenfucked Well, I wouldn't.
I, when I was younger, I wouldhave been thinking You'd have
been fucked Well, I wouldn'thave done it.
I would have done it in acompletely different way.
I would have been like right,how can I incorporate this sound
but also make something thatpeople are going to really like?
And then I can get popular offit and, you don't know, people
(10:59):
might love it.
People do love listening tomelancholic music.
I think if you don't tell themwhat it's about, maybe people
will be drawn to it anyway,because we like to.
When it's hard to process one'sfeelings, music's a great place
to go.
Like I I don't know how toprocess how sad I am, but I can
listen to I don't know larkascended.
(11:21):
I know that's one of yourfavourite tracks and I can cry
and let it come out.
And so, musically on its own,maybe people would be drawn to
it and enjoy it.
But if we really tell peoplewhat it's about, maybe people
will be turned off.
But I don't care, I'd ratherone person listen to it and get
it.
The other side of it I reallywanted to talk about because
(11:44):
it's definitely come to my mind.
I'm on the third track now and Iit's definitely this grief and
loss thing is definitely comingup, and I think the other part
of it is like you mentioned,that what you liked is that I'm
kind of aligning myself withyour mission.
Yeah, but that's to me, that'sthe whole point in this working
together.
Right, it's, it's not about myego, it's about you've offered
(12:06):
up these wicked sounds.
How can I interpret what you'retrying to say and your message
is important and I'm aligningwith that.
That's wicked.
But also for me, I think on apersonal level, there's so many
layers to this.
Now where you've got you know,there's no way that my own grief
and loss about stuff in my lifeis definitely in there.
(12:28):
There's also my feelings, aboutmy shared feelings with you
about environment and the angeraround, just feeling like you're
just shouting into like a voidand the madness of it all.
But also on a personal levelwith you is now I know you and
(12:48):
you're sharing these sounds withme, but also I know that you're
going through your illness.
Is that I feel a grief and lossaround you as well, and I
wanted to, I wanted to, I wantedto do your life's work proud.
You know what I mean.
It's important.
Martyn Stewart (13:03):
It's important and you have done, mate, you
have done.
It's a, a set of music that'stouched my heart deeply and it's
it's another way of getting amessage out, or information out
to those people who don't knowabout it or probably refuse to
listen to it, but and listen toit in a different language.
(13:24):
You know the, the, the troublesand the toils of what happens
in the ocean.
I don't think it's the story'stold enough.
There's.
There's that thing that's sointeresting in what you're just
talking about how we disconnectso we can hate it, and if we saw
ourselves in them we wouldn't'tdo that.
The Taiji story is practicallyfatigued.
(13:48):
When it was in its infancy,when it was discovered what was
happening in that small villageby 28, 29 different people, it's
not the country, you know, thecountry didn't know much about
it, but thousands and thousandsof people were shocked, right,
that you could kill a sentientbeing like a dolphin.
(14:11):
I mean, we associate a dolphinlike Flipper you're brought up
with, you know, and thatmisconception that they have a
smile, you know, is theirdownfall, because you think it's
a lovable animal.
You can go and beat the shitout of a crow or whatever,
because we don't have thatassociation with them, but a
(14:33):
dolphin connects to everybodyelse.
So I thought when rico barrymade that film the cove, that
once the western world put thepressure on japan, it would end
the slaughter.
And then, over a period of time,the story got told and it it
almost got fatigued and peoplewere getting fed up.
Then the story went back tothem.
(14:56):
Well, let's use science as a,as a method of trying to stop
the slaughter, by saying ifyou're killing the dolphins and
you're eating the dolphins,there's a huge content of
mercury in in those, which isdamaging your own health.
And it kind of peaked a littleand it got traction and then it
(15:17):
just went off again.
Well, it's a bunch of poppycock.
And now there was a saying atthe time once the world gets to
know about Taiji, it won't be asecret anymore.
You know it will stop.
Well, it's still happening.
And your music is another way,I think, of being able to tell
(15:40):
the world.
Listen to it from a differentvoice.
Peter Hall (15:44):
We're not just using animal cruelty or we're not
using science now, we're usingmusic yeah, and it's not about
scaring people either, like it'snot about trying to like
disturb people.
It I it's okay to feel sad iswhat I'm saying.
(16:05):
It's it's nothing to run awayfrom and I think that's the
thing.
Is that's why people turn theother cheek, is it's too
upsetting or it's too much forthem to comprehend, but it's not
.
You're not going to die from,like, looking at this thing or
understanding it better.
No one's saying you've got to goout and change the world, but
just let's raise the awareness,because the more we raise
(16:27):
awareness generally and I'm noteven talking about awareness
about what's happening in japanor the planet more widely I my
personal opinion is that thereason why no one wants to look
at this stuff but also turns theother cheek to a lot of other
stuff that's going on, is thatthere's a real lack of just
personal awareness.
(16:47):
When you're aware and peoplecall that an awakening or
whatever you want to call it,but if you've got a deep,
there's no way that you wouldn'tfeel pain when you see another
thing being hurt.
Martyn Stewart (16:59):
Absolutely true.
Peter Hall (17:01):
There's no way you wouldn't give a shit.
I can't look away anymore and Ican't not feel it and I can't
just be dismissive of it.
And I'm not scared to look atit either, because it's a truth
and that's okay, like I'm notgonna die by looking at it or
understanding it, but I want tobe better connected with with my
(17:21):
environment around me and andthe and the world and people,
because it's no different to youknow, the, the lack of
awareness just leads to.
That's why we have so many warsand all the rest of it, because
you wouldn't be brutalizingother people or the planet if
you looked within yourself a bitmore and realized that actually
(17:42):
, probably what everyone's doingis just running away from their
own feelings rather thanlooking at what's going on
within them.
If you can love yourself, youthen love everyone else, don't
you?
Martyn Stewart (17:53):
I think that's the key you have to be able to
love yourself first before youcan love, and you have to be
able to understand and lovesomething before you can
understand what it is.
Peter Hall (18:04):
You can't protect something you don't understand
but it's the irony is it's sosimple to understand, isn't it?
Because I don't?
I don't know what everything iscalled.
You sent it.
Because I don't I don't knowwhat everything is called.
You sent me loads of differentsounds.
I don't know what all theseanimals are.
I don't need to know theirnames.
I am them and they are me.
I know that.
That's fine.
That's all I need to know.
We're connected.
I've got your back.
Basically, you've got my back.
(18:26):
You know we need every.
I don't understand why peoplecan't understand how
interconnected we are, and theonly way that we've managed to
thrive in this world as a as aspecies, is because everything
was in balance and we neededthem, and all we've done is
abuse them.
And now, it's no surprise, it'sgone to shit and yeah, it's
(18:49):
just frustrating.
Martyn Stewart (18:50):
Do you see any any hope in in all honesty, not
not just a cliche or frustrating?
Do you see any hope In allhonesty, not just a cliche or
whatever?
Do you honestly think so manydocumentaries go towards you
know, show you the badness andstuff, and then they give you a
message of hope at the end and,by the way, you know, the
(19:15):
buffalo will live on forever anddo do this and they'll get
happily married in some chapelin south carolina.
Yeah do you think people willchange?
Peter Hall (19:23):
it's so hard because , like you said, don't do the
cliche and there's everythingwithin me pulling me to be like.
I don't want to be a negativeperson but in in a way, this is
going to sound a bit fucked up,but I don't know that it will
change.
I don't have full confidencethat it will.
I know that there is.
(19:45):
I have a faith that there is away out of it.
Whether we will follow it isanother matter.
Way out of it, whether we willfollow it is another matter.
But maybe that's the big globallesson for our species is that
maybe it is or maybe this is theend for us and there'll be
(20:07):
another.
There'll be another age lateron and we we've had to learn it
the hard way, and maybe that'sthe only positive thing to come
out of it is that people mightwake up.
It might be too late, but atleast people will be like, oh
okay you've got more faith thanI do, really, really do but
(20:28):
maybe that's a little bit ofdenial, mate, because because
I've read, because I've seenthose documentaries where they
go, if we just stop doing this,if we stopped having so many
babies, or if we just left, wedon't need to be doing rewilding
.
We just need to leave it andstep back because actually
(20:48):
nature can rewild itself.
We need to stop interfering.
Martyn Stewart (20:56):
Look at Chernobyl.
Peter Hall (20:57):
I know brilliant look at that, that that stuff
gives you hope and actually thewhat in a way.
I know this is not.
Obviously this is controversial.
Whatever, the thing I loveabout chernobyl is that the
animals that came back, they,they can survive.
They can survive there.
We can't because of what we'vedone like we can't be there for
(21:19):
too long because of theradiation right well there's.
Martyn Stewart (21:24):
There's something I always say if you
take nature away from man, wecan't survive.
If you take man away fromnature, they can survive they
can thrive, look, look at lookat covid with lockdown yeah look
how everything started comingback.
You started seeing swans and upthe river thames and you you got
(21:47):
dolphins coming up into ven.
Maybe that's the answer.
Maybe the answer is that mandestroys himself.
Maybe Nostradamus was right.
And it's not being DebbieDowner, it's not that, it's just
over my lifetime I've seen sucha huge demise.
(22:11):
And then you read about 80% ofwild lands gone in 50 years and
50 of wildlife gone in 50 years.
The science backs it up.
If we, if we can't change,we're looking at gloom and doom
and there's, there's nothingreally, where you know used to
say, well, we've got nothing toleave for our grandkids or our
(22:33):
kids and whatever, they don'tknow.
The world that this archivespoke speaks about.
You know, 50 years, they knowthe, the world coming into it,
you know, and they've gotreality tv or they've got
whatever.
The reality is.
If we don't look after whatwe've got now, we haven't got a
(22:54):
life to look forward to.
You know, later on, I don'tthink it's gloom and doom, I
just think it's reality.
It's like you say, if you stareat it enough, it may force you
to turn around and say I don'tneed the plastic bag to take two
items out to the car.
I don't need't need to keepturning up the dial and the
(23:14):
electric meter when I can justput another jumper on.
There's so many scenarios.
I don't need to drive that bigtruck down the road, I don't
need to be as wasteful.
The resources that we use inthe Western world far, far
outdoes anything in the poorcountries.
(23:35):
We use 70% more resources thanyou know the rest of the planet.
And it's crazy.
And the math is there and yetwe just can't seem to get past
the greed.
Peter Hall (23:52):
It's an addiction, isn't it?
The greed it's.
It's an addiction, isn't itreally?
Martyn Stewart (23:55):
it's an addiction.
Yeah, it is an addiction we're.
Peter Hall (23:58):
We've created a world where we can and I
understand it, because we alllive with pain and suffering is
inevitable and all of that isn'tit.
So we've created a world wherewe can really try and minimize
our suffering by giving us loadsof things to take our mind off
stuff, but instead of embracingit as a part of life and facing
(24:19):
into it.
That's why people have massivecars.
That's why people arematerialistic.
I don't even judge them on it.
It makes you feel good becauseyou feel shit inside.
So it makes you feel good.
I understand it.
But the problem with that is isthe consequences.
It's madness.
Everyone's running around alittle bit mad, following things
(24:43):
that make them feel good asmuch as they can.
So that's why we have so muchfood waste, or like the way we
eat food is just extreme, isn'tit?
Like it's not, it's notsustainable, um, and all the
materialistic stuff, all theconsumerism stuff, I get it.
I.
I don't judge anyone.
(25:04):
I understand.
I've got love for the love foryou, but you're running away
from your feelings and you'reusing that stuff and, as a
result, you're killingeverything.
And I don't.
It does sound depressing.
Maybe we are too grumpy oldgits, or but I don't feel
depressed about it.
(25:24):
I just I think what I think whenyou I don't feel depressed it's
a cliche, but when you acceptthe truth, like this is what's
happening, it's okay, like maybeit will be the end of us.
The best case scenario is theanimals live on and they have a
great time without it.
(25:45):
Maybe we will turn it aroundand maybe it will all change and
there'll be a great worldwideawakening.
But it doesn't feel like thatat the moment and maybe we're
just in another.
Like how many ages has theplanet had, you know?
Maybe we're just in thedownward turn of one and then
(26:06):
there'll be another one and ifwe leave just a little bit left
for it to grow again, I don'tknow, but I don't feel depressed
.
I don't really feel depressedabout it.
I just feel like probably themain feeling around it is, I
don't know, maybe likefrustration and anger that
people don't face I think mydepression comes from cruelty
(26:30):
and disregard.
Martyn Stewart (26:31):
I'm not depressed in myself.
I love being back in nature.
It gives me the greatestfeeling and it's almost like I
mean, it's free, you don't swipea credit card or you don't, you
know, go and withdraw in a bankto go and get those feelings.
It's brilliant, it's wonderful,and I suppose when you you see
(26:53):
man destroying the thing thatyou love the most, you turn that
resentment into a form ofhatred I get it, and I don't
like saying that because I'm not, you know, I'm not a negative
person, but, um, I'm veryprotective of the things I love
(27:13):
the most.
Peter Hall (27:14):
I found that that feeling has grown as I've got
older, for some reason and Idon't know whether that's
because I don't know what thatis where I've, maybe because the
more I look into myself andwork through the things that
I've been through, the more Imaybe, because actually probably
what it is is I blocked all thefeelings I ever had, squashed
(27:37):
them down.
There was no room for feelingsgrowing up, and now I'm
expressing them more or lookinginto them more.
Love and compassion and thosesort of positive and overt
combat feelings have been ableto come to the forefront Because
actually I had no feelings andthen, because they've come up, I
(27:59):
can I find that really hard tounderstand Because you're a
deeply emotional person.
They were always there, butthey've been blocked down and
now it all just comes out allover the place.
I can't control them now.
It's just like but the, the?
The irony is actually like whatyou're saying, you know, like
(28:19):
nature's free and when you enjoybeing around people, and but
there's a limit to that, andthen when you go out, you just
you feel yourself and I, I 100,completely identify with that.
And the irony is, like I wassaying earlier, everyone running
(28:40):
around trying to sort of notfeel their negative feelings,
and so they're.
They've got to get loads ofmoney and they've got to get the
car and they've got to get thejob and they've got to do all
this stuff that just bycoincidence has a negative
impact on the planet.
My way of processing my feelingsand and helping me with my
(29:03):
feelings is to go into natureand actually that that's.
That would be.
What might, that would be apossible way of changing things.
Is that, if people realize thatthe answer isn't chasing the
dollar, it's just being innature and helping it or
(29:25):
whatever that's going to giveyou that peace that you're
looking for.
It's not over there withconsuming more, it's over here.
It was always there.
That was the gift of nature isthat it was always there.
We didn't really have to doanything.
They look after it themselves.
(29:46):
We just have to respect it andand we can enjoy it for free.
And I guess, taking it back tothe track because we've gone,
that's probably why there's somuch emotion in it, because I
did want to bring in howimportant it is to me, how I
(30:07):
feel so deeply about it, into it, whilst also the sadness I feel
that we're destroying it at thesame time, to try and hopefully
that can connect with someoneand they can think shit yeah,
really, that's how I feelsomewhat and they can think shit
, yeah, that's how.
Really that's how I feel, likethe thought of you can't listen
(30:27):
to those sounds that yourecorded of the dolphins getting
slaughtered and not cry, eventhough they're kind of abstract.
Martyn Stewart (30:34):
I can't, it's too much sometimes I would say
the majority of people wouldprobably feel those emotions.
But there's a lot of people whohave a different kind of
feeling to those.
I've seen them and I don'tunderstand them, you know.
Peter Hall (30:51):
Don't you think that if you don't feel anything, you
can't, you're not going to?
Are they numbing their feelings?
Martyn Stewart (30:58):
Maybe they are.
You know, there's so manystrange, strange things that has
been said to me in my life.
And you know, recently it tookme 30 years to stop eating
animals and yet my brother wasat me all the time.
You know why?
Why do you love animals so muchand you eat them?
And I used to.
That was my way of denial.
(31:20):
And then it wasn't until thatseed germinated that I thought
what the hell am I doing?
What am I doing?
And it was just like night andday.
And then when you talk about itto other people I try to not
preach, I just drop those littleseeds that my brother was doing
(31:40):
to me and I thought that wasgreat.
I just dropped those littleseeds that my brother was doing
to me and I thought that wasgreat.
But like a statement when thehorse meat was was out and
prevalent about, I remembertalking to this one woman saying
she's saying you know there'shorse in the burger, you know
there's a cow in there too, andit's.
It's that kind of disconnect.
It's the.
What the heck I?
(32:08):
I went.
It's that kind of disconnect.
It's that.
What the heck I?
Um, I went to um, to china to,to try and educate people about
the dog meat festival and peopleon the west couldn't understand
that people on that side of theworld was eating dogs because
they're pets.
And what's the differencebetween a dog and a cow and a
(32:28):
pig and a chicken?
There's no difference.
So it's just that level ofacceptance and what we want to
accept.
We can't understand why someonewants to eat a dog or a cat
while they're talking into a pig.
I it's.
(32:50):
It's bullshit.
It's bullshit.
They're all.
They all have central nervoussystem and they all suffer pain.
And they, you know they, if you.
I think Paul McCartney saidonce that if slaughterhouses had
glass windows, we'd all becomevegetarian.
Peter Hall (33:09):
Yeah, it's, that's just.
I don't even have the energy tobe sort of angry about it.
It's just sort of a resignedfeeling of just how can you not
see?
That's just a cultural thing.
It's just like over here, forwhatever reason, someone
(33:29):
marketed it to us and we werelike yeah cow, let's eat them.
Martyn Stewart (33:33):
But it could have easily been dog, it could
have been and yet you thinkabout it, the the amount of
damage that I'm not condoningthis, but eating a dog, as to
farming a cow, the damage on theplanet for just its existence
is far greater than the dog.
(33:54):
And yet, because we have thisassociation with a pet, we don't
see the deforestation of theamazonian rainforest to grow
crops to feed the cow, to feedthe house, to do blah, blah,
blah.
Peter Hall (34:11):
We're just in completely denial I I honestly
think the world generally walksaround in huge denial about
loads of things like, whetherwhether it's about nature or
about the human experience, likeyour own human experience
denial is a brilliant copingmechanism that's hardwired into
(34:32):
us.
I don't have any judgment aboutit, like I've definitely had a
lot of denial in a way of copingwith trauma and abuse and
things like that, and I justthink, in order for us to be
able to abuse the planet oranimals in the way that we do,
we have to have that next leveldenial and like.
(34:53):
For me, like that comes from,it's no different.
For me, it's no different fromhow, in colonial times, the only
way you could brutalize anotherin like indigenous people, was
to other them and make them nothuman.
And I just think we that's how,because if, if I, I couldn't, I
(35:16):
physically as a human, couldn'tmurder or brutalize another
human being if I see myself inthem.
So we have to like that is sotrue you have to complete.
You couldn't murder someone ifyou saw your yourself in them,
and you can't.
And we couldn't eat animals onthe extent that we do.
(35:38):
We couldn't burn down theforest to the extent we do.
We couldn't fish in the mostbrutalized way that we do if we
saw that we are actually we arethem.
So we have to say they'reseparate, they're just a
commodity it's.
We've just commoditized like Idon't even know if that's a word
(35:59):
but we've commoditized orobjectified nature so that we
can then just rinse it for allits worth.
Martyn Stewart (36:09):
Have an excuse to destroy it.
I had this tattoo done, youknow, years ago, with a dog and
a cow and no difference,difference.
And it was a real funny thing.
When I was in um in china, thisone woman, through a translator
, she said that, um, you comeand you have dog, and I said I'm
(36:30):
not knocking you for eating dog, but I don't need animal.
And I showed her the tattoo nodifference.
And through the interpreter,she said yes, you're right,
there's no difference, they bothtaste the same they're both
lovely to eat both nice sweets.
(36:52):
I thought okay oh dear so I'llI'll wrap up and by saying that,
by saying that I love thetracks, I absolutely love it,
and to me it's a special,special soundtrack, because it's
(37:14):
so close to my heart and itdoes evoke a lot of emotions.
Peter Hall (37:21):
Mate, I'm so happy that you feel that way, because
I genuinely think you're abloody legend and what you do.
I'll get off with you and Iwanted, I wanted to do right by
you.
Martyn Stewart (37:32):
Well you, you went surpass that mate.
You shot down the road in aMorgan.
Peter Hall (37:40):
Well, that'd be nice .
Um yeah, I'm so glad and andI'm it's the most, it's the most
personal thing I've ever done.
It's the hardest thing I'veever done well, it's amazing.
Martyn Stewart (37:54):
It's amazing it it feels.
You say it's the hardest thingyou've ever done.
I think it's probably the mostnatural thing you've ever done.
Peter Hall (38:04):
Yeah, it's actually just giving in and just going.
This is who I am, I don't needto worry about I'm not even you
know.
You said earlier like about oh,do you think people will turn
away and not listen?
And I'm not even worried aboutit.
It's almost like doing it foran audience of one.
It's like I'm just let's do it.
(38:24):
We're doing something we wantto do.
Who gives a shit like I want itto mean something and I
definitely wanted to dosomething that kind of valued
your work as well.
So well it's brilliant mate.
Martyn Stewart (38:42):
Mate, it's absolutely brilliant and I thank
you from my heart.
Peter Hall (38:46):
Nice one, mate.
I love chatting to you.
Martyn Stewart (38:48):
I love chatting to you too, such a cool guy.
You've just experienced anotherjourney on the listening planet
(39:17):
podcast.
Dive deeper into the world ofnatural sounds by connecting
with us online, visit ourwebsite or follow us on social
media.
Let the symphony of naturesurround you wherever you go.
Happy listening.
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