Love Island USA Analysis Part 2: The Emotional Intelligence Behind Reality TV Relationships

Episode Transcript
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Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull (00:00):
Hey guys, welcome to A Little Help
for Our Friends, a podcast forpeople with loved ones
struggling with mental health.
Hey Little Helpers.
Today is part two of our LoveIsland psychoanalysis and recap.
We are all caught up on 37,000episodes that came out this
season and we are ready to divein.

(00:20):
But first kick it to.

Dr. Kibby McMahon (00:22):
Kibbe, really exciting.
The Kula Mind community is nowofficially live, open and
running.
We did our first live call andit's really really great so far.
I mean, the people in it areawesome Basically.
Just so if people don't knowwhat this is, this is a place

(00:44):
where we're going to teach allthe different skills that we
talk about on this podcast, sohow to get through a breakup,
how to communicate effectively,how to set boundaries, how to
support a loved one withemotional or mental health
issues.
So the community if I'll linkit on the show notes that that's
a place where it's.

(01:04):
It's really exclusive andprivate, so we're not letting
everyone in Um, but it reallycenters around this 12 week
course.
People can jump in at any point, but it's basically teaching
all the different skills that wetalk about.
For example, next week we'regoing to do mindfulness of
emotions and this week we'redoing discovering your values,
so you could really rediscoveryourself and sense of purpose.

(01:27):
So so far it's been amazing andalso it's here for you for
whatever you need.
So if you want more informationon addiction or how to talk to
a loved one who you think hasborderline personality disorder,
this is the place where it'sbasically having us in your back
pocket.
So, and, jacqueline, you'regoing to come in at some point

(01:50):
and and co-teach or lead a uh, askills group week.
What skill do you want to teach?
What's your favorite?
What's your favorite thing toteach?

Um, I actually do like mindfulness and
emotions a lot.
Um, I liked Dear man a lot, theinterpersonal skills generally.

It's all interpersonal skills.
That's the fun part.
It's all an interpersonaleffectiveness community.
If you're interested, go toKulaMind.
com K-U-L-A-M-I-N-D.
com.
I'll also put a link in theshow notes so you could just
look at the description and finda place where you can learn
more about how to join thecommunity, if you're interested.

Amazing .
Okay, kimmy, what did you think?
By the way, kimmy and I havenot discussed this at all.
She tried last night and Irefused, because I have
integrity for this podcast.

Wait a minute .
You're saying I don't haveintegrity.

We were planning an analysis and I see
you all over Instagram likeseeing all of your thoughts.

I'm like, and now you're like no, I'm not
talking about it until thepodcast.
So just calling you out, how'dyou find it?
How did you feel about thefinale gaslighting everyone,
just gaslighting me?
Um, I mean this, I, I'm, I'mspeaking.

(03:17):
I know that we have differentperspectives.
I'm speaking as a longtimelover of love Island.
I've watched a lot of the UKversions which I feel like are
the classics, so I really havelike a history with this show.
This season really felt like,you know, like professional.
When a reality show turns whenit jumps the shark, and it feels

(03:43):
like it jumps the shark whenthe people in it feel like it
jumps the shark, when the peoplein it are feel like they were
auditioning more for influencerrole than they are being on the
show for realsie.
So it just felt reallycalculated.
It just felt like okay, amaya,I have my opinions about maya,

(04:04):
she seems really sweet, but itjust all seemed like towards the
end, you, it felt like a game,I don't know what.
What.
What do you feel like?

I mean I was very happy in my and brian
won.
I thought that was the rightchoice, um, and I have positive
feelings towards her that we cango into.
I mean, I don't know like Iwound up enjoying the show
because I got attached to a lotof the contestants and, in
particular, I really, reallyloved the male friendships.

(04:37):
That kind of sustained me for awhile, a while.
But I mean I did think thefirst half of it was really
boring, and I do.
I didn't find many of thepartnerships totally believable
or compelling, so I canunderstand how you would have
that opinion, but I did.
I did start really enjoying itin the last 10 episodes.

Good.
Would this inspire?
You to go back and watch thethe uh, maybe I definitely,
definitely would if it were morelike 15 episodes.

My only thing is like it's such a
commitment and there's othershit I want to watch, but I know
it's like really compelling.
You know like maths, australia.
Then I'd watch 36 episodes.
I skipped all the after sunstuff, though.

Okay, there's a lot for us to talk about.
There's the maya, there's howcalculated it feels.
There's the male friendships,there's huda.
Yeah, well, we're definitely.
And then I also want to ask youat some point about all of the
controversy of the twocontestants getting kicked off
because of their social media.
So, there's a lot to talk about.
Okay, first thing, when yousaid the male, the male

(05:51):
friendships, I think maybebecause I lately um, because a
lot of people in the in the Kulamind community just happened to
be people with partners likemale partners were struggling.
And I've just been doing a lotmore research into this and I've
just been doing a lot moreresearch into this and we've
talked about this on differentepisodes in the podcast.
But men's mental health is downthe toilet, like they are not

(06:14):
doing well.
Like across the board, mentalhealth issues are are
skyrocketing everywhere, butespecially with men, and a big
factor of that is maleloneliness.
Men are just not good at makingfriends as much as women, and
we know from research thatquality of the relationships
actually make you live longer,give you a better life above

(06:39):
financial status, above IQ andabove genes.
So relationship, you're likehow do I have a happy, long life
?
It's you know.
Make sure that you are notlonely and it's interesting.
With Love Island, I also thoughtabout this.
I was watching this and I waslike, wow, I don't know what the

(07:02):
producer Like, wow, I don'tknow what the producer
maneuvering or what theyactually like do to manage what
these people do in Love Island,but these men are sitting around
talking a lot and opening upabout their emotion.
First of all, they're justspending a lot of time together
without phones, withoutdistractions, right.
So that's a really, I imagine,like a really cool way to bond.

(07:22):
But they're sitting aroundtalking about their feelings and
commitment and relationshipswithout distractions, right.
So that's a really, I imagine,like a really cool way to bond.
But they're sitting aroundtalking about their feelings and
commitment and relationships inprobably way more and way more
depth than men usually do.

So I wonder if that's a big piece
where suddenly it's like you'reseeing these magical bromances
happening and it's like magicalbromance is happening and it's
like I really actually am happythat this show exists for the
sole purpose of showing youngmen what's possible and that
it's actually okay to cry.
I mean these men, I have neverseen a more emotional group of

(07:56):
men, in a good way, right.
Emotional as in like willing tocry, willing to express their
feelings, willing to, like hugeach other and cuddle each other
.
Not emotional like rage.
Nobody was enraged, which wasnice to see.
Right, it was like men reallyadopting the softer side of
themselves and still embodyingmasculinity.

(08:18):
Like I would say, all these menwere pretty masculine and what
did they get out of it?
They got great friendships.
I mean the scene where they,the four men, were all in the
same bed.
I was just like it was such acute little moment.
Um, they've put stuff onInstagram of, like, the men
being very physical with eachother, like roughhousing or

(08:42):
doing tricks, or like Nick andPepe.
I think it was had a reallycute video and it's just really
nice to see.
I mean, when, when Nickoriginally left and Ace and
Taylor were going through itlike more, it seems, almost more
significantly than the womenwere, it was really sweet that

(09:02):
they were able to show eachother how much they meant to
each other and laugh about it alittle bit.
Even I remember, early in theseason, I really liked this
moment where Nick tells I thinkit was Ace that he and Sierra
had sex and he was like it's thebest 20 seconds of my life,
like he's even able to jokeabout his own.
You know, like coming tooquickly, like they just it was

(09:28):
really sweet and I I I'm hopingthat this wasn't my guess is
that these men because theyactually demonstrated a lot of
emotional maturity with thewomen and in other instances
that they might be examples ofGen Z that are well-adjusted,
because there are now parentsright who are like cultivating

(09:51):
their little boy's emotionalworlds and who are, you know,
being intentional aboutsocializing them.
And obviously these men are menwho have had a lot of social
success in the past.
They wouldn't be on the show ifthat weren't true, so I doubt
that they are normally reallylonely.
You've got two of them rightwho were former or current

(10:12):
professional basketball players.
That's like a big team.
Chris is current and then Pepewas former.

I didn't know that.

Yeah, I mean in pro can meet a lot of
things.
I mean that doesn't mean theywere in the NBA, but like they
could have been you knowinternational players or but
that that you know they've got ateam like they.
I'm sure that is filled withclose friendships.
But I mean there were peoplelike Ace, who I did not realize
was 22 until the end.
I'm a big Ace fan fan, as weknow.
But he turned away from thelittle finger arc and more

(10:47):
towards the nice guy.
So um showed a lot of emotion.

I think he got I think he got kicked off
because he he he lost hisemotional control.
I think he got aggressive umlike there was, oh gosh, I can't
remember, but I think it wasone of those challenges where
they had to talk, um, I think,towards the end.
I just remember a coupleepisodes where he was kind of

(11:13):
blamey of other people and Ithink he was like just
frustrated in general and alittle bit like he was jealous
of shelly.
But he got, he got a littlecontrolling in a way and like
snappy at people.
Um, then again, like you know,I don't, I, I don't think he
acted on it incorrectly, like Idon't think he.
He was um, uh, you know, justout of line, but he, I think he,

(11:40):
I think people turned on him.
That's why they kicked him outI was.

I mean, it's not that I was surprised
that they were kicked out,because obviously that few
episodes before they'd beenranked low, but I didn't
understand that at all.
I found them to be the mostcompelling couple a compelling
meaning, believable, like.
I actually could buy into theirrelationship and think that they
might last.
And I thought that Ace was avery, very good communicator and
I thought he did regulate hisemotions really well.

(12:05):
But I don't know, it'd beinteresting to talk through like
what you saw as controlling.
I mean, there was that episodewhere they all had to write
secrets about each other, whereeverybody lost their shit.
I think that was it.
Yeah, and yeah, I mean he andAustin had like a big fight and
I saw Austin's side.
Honestly, I was kind of sidingwith him in that.

But yeah, I think he got, I think he's got a
little like, got a little justbacked into a corner and got a
little aggressive at certainpoints.
But I, I, I, I take your pointthat I was, I was surprised the
whole way through.
It really was a cast of peoplewho were very emotionally
intelligent and communicative.

(12:42):
I mean Alandria man, like thatwoman you know, got angry at
appropriate times, um,apologized when there was
miscommunications you know like,made up conflicts, I mean.
And then the men too, I meaneven like we don't really love
and the whole world doesn'treally love Taylor's choice of

(13:05):
leaving Alandria, but I think itwas.
He spoke genuinely, he was likeI'm looking to explore
connections, I really likeAlandria, but Clark made me feel
something different, somethingmore boyish and fun, and that's
what I'm going with.
And I was like, wow, that'sreally articulate and very clear
, that's really articulate andvery clear.

It was funny.
I mean I understand why Taylorand Clark got kicked off,
because I don't think thatClark's personality shown
through.
I'm sure she's wonderful but Idon't think she was the best
like reality TV star.
And so I think people just sawhim leaving Alandria who'd put
all this effort into and they'dseen, they'd seen them like

(13:45):
forge a connection rather thanhave like a light bulb
connection like he and clark did, and so it was upsetting to
watch him leave alandria, whopeople knew really well, for
clark who is more introverted,but the confusion around how
could he leave someone who hadput in so much effort and time
is like completely ignoring howattraction works.

(14:08):
I mean, it's really not hard toleave somebody who's put in a
lot of time and effort when theymaybe had to put in that time
and effort because theattraction actually wasn't that
strong and they had to likeforge it.

Like I never thought.

Taylor was that convincingly into her
and that's interesting.
I don't know, did you?

uh, yeah, I think you're right.
I think in the beginning theydid have this issue of um.
She was asking for him to showmore, or and he.
She was even swayed by JadenJalen, um the new guy, because
he was a little bit more umtaking initiative, right, and he
there, they did explain it atsome point.
Um, I think someone even saidthis.
They said you know, lander'smore serious and more like, you

(14:54):
know, like got our shit together, whereas clark, you know, maybe
, is more fun and laid back.
So there it just maybe broughtout something different in
taylor, but I just it could bephysical, like we have no idea,
but obviously he knows when he'sreally into somebody and he
knows, so it just maybe broughtout something different in
Taylor, but I just it could bephysical, like we have no idea.

But obviously he knows when he's
really into somebody and heknows like the show.
The show incentivizes peopleCoupling up Right.
So like of course he's going toinvest in Alandria if she's the
only one showing him interestand the only one available, but
then when something better comesalong for him, then like yeah,

(15:26):
he's gonna jump ship, but itjust didn't go very well for the
audience there is somethingweird about the whole structure
of this show.

I I mean in in the old, uh, love island it
really did.
You really did see realconnections and couples that
like formed in like week one andstayed.
Sometimes they won, sometimesthey didn't.
But this season felt reallypunishing of people who had
genuine connections, like assoon, like the whole Hannah and

(15:59):
Pepe, you know, anytime someoneactually liked each other, like
even Ace and Shelly.
As soon as they actually go,yeah, we like each other.
It's like they're ripped apart.
Right and I don't know Some ofit seemed to be like timing,
like the whole Sierracontroversy, but it really was
like I'm not surprised that atthe end there weren't that many
genuine couples, because thegenuine couples were kicked off.

I know this was my point the last time
we did this.
I was like what is the point ofthis show?
Everyone who gets a connectiongets kicked off.
So I found it really hard toinvest in because I couldn't
figure out what, what it is thatthey were supposed to be doing.
And I mean, yeah, when Pepeasked during that it was
interesting, first of all,during the time when they had to
share secrets about each other.

(16:42):
He, he said, was I don't getwhy hannah was kicked off.

We had a great connection and then it
seemed like they were kind ofaggressive about it, like they
were like you locked in and wedidn't think that you know you
need to explore more people andit's like what.
But I liked her, like what'sgoing on you?

had already explored hannah, like
what, and they had like twoepisodes to be together.
I mean it wasn't like theylocked in for 10 episodes, I
just yeah, I mean I I'm stillconfused about that.
It is amazing, like who makesit to the end?
And in this case it was Amaya.

(17:20):
And look, I think Amaya has.
She's a very compelling realityTV character, but she's really
lucky she didn't find aconnection sooner, because I
think part of it was like oh,we're at the end, now you can
have a relationship, like nowyou're going to invest.

Okay, well, this is the thing that felt the
most schemey scammy to me, amaya.
I like how genuine she is.
I love how communicative she isabout her feelings.
Like it's all on the surface.
It is a little bit dysregulated, right.
She does feel like a youngchild.

Oh, I think the whole reason they love
her is she can't regulateemotions, but she's good natured
, so most her relation, most ofher emotions are positive, and
so you're just seeingdysregulated, positive emotion,
which is childlike we did seeher flip out a couple times
right and cry a lot, you know.

So we know she can't regulate those, but
she also can't.

I don't think people are used to not to
seeing people who can'tregulate positive emotions and I
think that harmed everyone.

But I think that was all the time.

And they would say that she had the
zoomies.
It's like, yeah, Amaya can'tregulate her positive emotions.
Most of us don't know where.

Belgium is.
I mean like one of the guys waslike my mom is in Belgium or
something.
She was like, oh, germany.
And he's like, no, belgium, thecountry.

(19:01):
Anyway, we won't talk about it.
I've been a society.
She, this poor girl, stands upthere encircled by all the
people that she's dated andshe's friends with and America,
and three guys she dated werelike you're too much you, you
come on too strong.
I didn't like that.
That's why we rejected you.

(19:22):
And she's just poor girl, iscrying and none of none of the
guys who dated her like came toher defense, like were nice.
They all were like, yeah, metoo, you freaked me out and
she's just like sobbing and I.
And then, and then I thinkamerica voted.
After that they voted herpositively because I feel like
everyone can sympathize withbeing shamed for being too into

(19:47):
someone.
And then there was thatchallenge where it was like you
actually got to see how Americavoted on each person and Amaya
was just like everyone thoughtshe was the most genuine, the
most kind or whatever.
And then, right after that, allthe guys were suddenly super
interested in Amaya.
So, talking about auditioningfor influencer role, I mean

(20:11):
Brian, who the F is Brian?
He just slipped right in andwas just like I get it, you're
Hispanic, I like that.

And suddenly he sails to the top 50K
and this guy, you know, likeeveryone, was just riding the
amaya train to victory yeah, Imean I saw somebody comment that
like their relationship seemedfake, like brian just went and
got into her because ofamerica's voting and like that's
perfectly plausible.

(20:40):
You know, I don't know how totell I he seemed like he could
be charmed by her moreconvincingly than anybody else
was able to.
When he looked at her I could,there was a little bit of.
There was a part of him thatseemed a little bit taken aback,
but there was another part ofhim that was holding her energy

(21:01):
and that seemed endeared, youknow to it.
That was holding her energy andit seemed endeared, you know to
it.
I don't know, I mean, he is atleast the only person who
defended her before she waspopular.

So I mean it's possible for a second.
I mean he was just like yeah,hispanic people express their
affection and say babe a lot.
And then they showed that clipand their whole like like you
know, the love story at the end,like the last episode, where
they try to pretend like allthese people have this like
beautiful love stories andthey're like really scraping,
like the producers have to lookback at some cute moments that

(21:36):
doesn't involve other people,right, like let's find
Nicolandria clips without Sierra, like you know, and then they
find that one clip of Briansaying, yeah, but she's Hispanic
, of course she's gonna say babe, and then that was, like you
know, part of the story.
Anyway, I'm glad that she wonbecause it really did seem like

(21:58):
a redemption arc, right of likebeing totally trash for being,
you know like overlyenthusiastic and then winning.

I think that was like a good, a good, a
good victory for people whofeel and in an age where it
seems like everybody isauditioning to be influencers, I
think her inability to regulateany emotions means that she's
also incapable of masking, andso she is always authentic,

(22:33):
whether that is by design and bycourage or not.
But yeah, I mean you got thesense that she's certainly real.
The Zoomies.

I love that, just like this grown-ass woman
just running around screaming.

Yeah, and I hope that Brian's
legitimately into her.
I really do.
I mean, I think if someone canappreciate her, then they'll
have a good life.
Yeah.

It's not to say that they are a bad couple
or that you know, like hedoesn't like her, that was all
fictional, but like it justseemed like the tables turned.

You know what?

It's.
It's this interesting that whenI watched Parks and Rec have
you ever watched that show?
Parks and Recreation with AmyPoehler?

A couple episodes, yeah.

So there's season one, and season two are
dramatically different.
Season one, leslie Knope.
The main character is reallyhardcore, enthusiastic, like
super eager, super involved,super dedicated to her work and
everyone is like eye rolling.
It's kind of like the office atfirst, where it's like oh, this

(23:37):
boss, oh too much.
And then the writer said thatall they did was change how
people reacted to her for theseason two.
In season one they're like oh,this girl.
Season two, they're like thisgirl, but we love her, and that
changed the tone of the show,but the character stayed exactly
the same.

(23:57):
And it's this interesting likewhat does it make Like think
about how social we are?

Dr. Jacqueline Trum (24:19):
Interesting Like, what does it make what?
Like think about how social weare, like, and what I can say is
that when a man had money,they'd always be worried that
someone was dating him for hismoney, and I'm like, but it's
going to be really hard tofigure that out, because here's
the thing when you have money,that woman is genuinely more
attracted to you.
It's not that she is attractedto money and will take the man

(24:40):
because they come hand in hand.
That might be true for, likeyou know, like wolf, ugly, dudes
, but in general, like, if youhave an asset that somebody
wants, then you might actuallysee their personality is better
too.
Like if, like a hot girl, a guyis going to genuinely be more
attracted to her personality aswell as her face because she's

(25:01):
seen as desirable and somebodyto like attain, like, why are
you making that face?

oh, are you talking about the halo effect
that I mean, I think?
I got confused there becauseyou said that the like women are
attracted to the money andtherefore they'll find that guy
more attractive.
But I think what you're sayingis the halo effect, which is
like if they have a good quality, you might tend to see a lot of
their qualities as alsopositive.
Is that what you're?

talking about.
I think it's the same thing.
Right, like money is a goodquality for a lot of women, and
so then they see the person ismore attractive Like if.
I saw Mark Cuban on the street,I wouldn't be like, wow, that
guy's hot and I want to talk tohim.
But because I know he's MarkCuban, suddenly I find him a lot
more attractive.
Like I'm intrigued by MarkCuban, the person In part.

(25:51):
It's like how did he get themoney?
How is he so successful?
That must you know, saysomething about him.
But I think, like we see thiswith attractive women all the
time Guys will be like I want toget to know that person because
her personality is attached tothis body.
In other words, when amaya gotvoted highly by america,
suddenly she was accepted andlauded by a lot of people.

(26:12):
She's seen as more desirableand I think that suddenly her
behavior, which to the meninitially had felt desperate or
weird or not adult, was cast ina different light.

Yeah, that light is they will get more
famous if they hang out with her, but I don't think that that's
necessarily it.

That's saying that they're only that
like as soon as they hang outwith her and then you know, when
they go home they'll like breakup because they've gotten their
use out of her.
But I think there's a separatehypothesis, which is these
qualities about her aren'tembarrassing.
There's something people like,and so now I don't have to feel

(26:56):
ashamed or weird about likingthem.
I don't have to not like themin order to be accepted.
If I actually like her, I willbe accepted.
Therefore, I will be able tosee her better and appreciate
her more.

Yeah, I guess maybe what we might say is what
does the signs indicate?
Like what you said, I'minterested in Mark Cuban, or we
find him more intriguing becausesocial dominance and resources
and intelligence is somethingthat's attractive, and maybe

(27:35):
business success on a show orsomething.
Therefore, he might have thesequalities that I'm attracted to.
If Amaya was voted high byAmerica, maybe like if I don't
really know her, I'm, but thenif America voted, maybe there's
a sign that she's actually agood person, or maybe her

(27:57):
emotions aren't scary or a signof something bad, but it's
actually a sign that she's likea really genuine and bubbly
person ever dated a guy whocomes on really, really strong

(28:18):
and is like really loud andoutgoing and you could see him
as obnoxious and you could bekind of embarrassed to take him
along and meet your friends.

But as soon as your friends react like
really really well to him,suddenly you're like oh okay,
it's okay for me to like him,like I'm not going to get
rejected for this, I don't haveto like he's just really
outgoing and charming versusover the top and obnoxious.

Yeah, I think .
I think this is like how muchdoes society and like your
friends and the world, see you,know your potential partner, how
much their opinion matters,right, and I think that I think
to a degree right that if theworld um, I mean it just,
there's human nature, if I, ifthere's a guy and all my friends

(29:08):
are into him, I, there might bea signal of like there's
something.
This person is a high valuecatch, this person's a catch.
I don't know why yet, butthey're you know, the social
dominance is something that ispart of the attraction.
But there's also something tobe said about like maybe it's
not about what people feel,right, it's it's are you happy

(29:31):
with that person.
It might be someone whoeveryone is into, but those
qualities are good or bad fitfor you individually, because,
at the end of the day, like, yes, my friend's opinions matter in
terms of what you know, do theylike my husband or whatever,
but sometimes it doesn't.
Sometimes it's like you know,like maybe they don't like him
and I'm the one who's with thosequalities, right?

All I'm saying is that I don't know
that Brian's feelings for Mayawere fake, like just because he
wanted, you know, america tolike him.
I think that America liking hecould have very well been
influenced by that, and I'm sureeverybody was.
But I mean, this is howpopularity works, right, like?

(30:15):
How many times did we like thepopular guy in high school and
would have written off plenty ofnegative characteristics
because he's seen as desirable?
It's also how the Bachelorworks.
Nobody breaks up with theBachelor.
I only broke up with himbecause I was going to get fired
.
But you know, the whole premiseof the show is this guy's

(30:35):
desirable.
Go get him.
And then people genuinely likedhim.
It wasn't like they, it wasn'tlike they were just playing the
game the whole time.

Yeah, yeah.

We got to talk about Hoda.

I'm sorry to make a hard left turn of this
conversation.
But like great, Like love isreal, Amaya is great and America
has recognized that Fantastic.

Yeah, I mean, I have lots of thoughts
about that.

Okay, let's, let's dive into Huda, because I
feel like she's a reallyinteresting person to talk about
from a psychologicalperspective, because I feel like
I'm right.

I feel like.

I just feel like we talked about this in our
last episode, but that she,that Huda, is someone who comes
in showing exactly what thedangers could be of having a
core belief, a negative corebelief about yourself from
previous trauma.
And I'm saying that becauseactually there was another

(31:42):
podcast, um, uh, I think it'scall me daddy, so she was on
another podcast and she talked alot about her history and her
history.
It was kind of rough.
I don't know if you've heardabout this or saw this online,
but she, um, I think her dad was, her parents were abusive, like

(32:03):
her dad would be really abusiveand they'd be really sweet.
Um, people like the CPS wascalled on her.
She'd witnessed a lot of, likedomestic violence between her
parents.
She was bullied in school.
She struggled with eatingdisorders and suicidality.
Yeah, so she, she really didn'thave a safe, stable background

(32:26):
and you could feel that when shewas dating at least I could see
something like that withJeremiah, because Jeremiah, I
don't know, like all the guysshe dated Okay, fine, they have
their faults, they weren't rightfor her, I agree, but she
reacted so strongly Like itreally was this like negative
bias that we're talking about,where it was so they would do

(32:48):
something and then she wouldreact so angrily to it and of
course there's probably a wholehistory like there.
There are probably many momentsof that and the cameras are
just going to show one piece.
But she would just blow up onthese guys just because he
didn't make the right pancake,or he wouldn't turn to cuddle

(33:09):
her, or you know just all these,all these things that would
just Made her look like she wasanticipating being let down.

Yeah, I mean, I totally agree.
Um, I think that I was usuallyable to see the thing about
their behavior she was reactingto.
But I mean, I went on quite ajourney with Hood and myself
because I at various times Istrongly disliked her and at
various times I was reallyrooting for her.
And I think you know, the lasttime we, the last place we left

(33:47):
off with her when we wererecapping, was that she
obviously exploded on Jeremiahin an inappropriate way,
obviously exploded on Jeremiahin an inappropriate way, but
that then she I thought shegained some of my respect when
she actually was able to put itto rest and move on and not be a
vortex of of drama andattention for the rest of the

(34:12):
show.
Meaning, like you know, if Ihad been left in a humiliating
fashion and had to then watchthat person go on and date, I
would probably draw a lot moreto myself and cry a lot more and
be a lot more dramatic.
Um, I don't, I shouldn't saythat.
That's actually kind ofincorrect.

(34:32):
I'm not a very dramatic person,but I don't think I would be
able to sit there with a smileon my face, correct?
I'm not a very dramatic person,but I don't think I would be
able to sit there with a smileon my face.
Um, then I started.
Then I had a big upwardtrajectory with her for a really
long time because I saw her asregulating more and when she met
Chris, she, um, she was drawnto what seemed like it would be

(34:55):
a healthy dynamic.
Um made a lot of comments inITMs about not wanting to fuck
it up, like it seemed like shewas really vulnerable in those
moments, about, you know,knowing her behaviors to some
extent and knowing that sherisks pushing people away and

(35:17):
being very scared of that andinsecure about that.
And, you know, I thought thatwas a good thing to admit and
think about.
I also saw her as reallyaccepting a lot of feedback from
her friends and reallyintentionally trying to develop
and grow.
She'd say things like you guyswould be so proud of me, I just

(35:37):
walked away.
I just walked away.
I didn't blow up Right, likeshe is taking people's feedback
seriously for a while.
Um, and then you know, like withthe whole PDA thing, I was like
you know, I think that you'retargeting the wrong thing.
I don't think that peopleobjected to you and Jeremiah

(35:59):
because of PDA, necessarily, butI understand, having gotten
hurt, and then trying to figureout all the different hypotheses
of how this went wrong andtrying to control for all of
them, um, I, I thought that thatwhole thing demonstrated some
immaturity, but I was still she.
I was still kind of endeared byher.
She was trying.
She was trying not to fuckthings up, um.

(36:22):
You know she kept walking awayfrom him, presumably because she
was getting overwhelmed,flooded.
That wasn't effective.
She should have named a timeout, but not everybody knows that
whatever.
Then they kind of got over in amature way and then then she
nosedived and completelybetrayed all of her progress by

(36:44):
um being very inappropriateabout demanding touch at bed, at
, you know, in bed, and thencompletely self-sabotaging and
ending it with him and thenbeing proud of herself for that
Um being like I'm a girl boss,cause I ended it with this guy
who doesn't like me enough.

(37:06):
Right Like isn't physicalenough, I'm like that's not what
happened is not what happened,and and uh yeah.
And then he you know he gave abeautiful speech in there, like
when they went up and he hedescribed her the way she really
should want to be seen by a man.

(37:26):
So I was like, ooh Huda, youmade a big time mistake here.
Like you should not be proud ofself-sabotaging and deciding to
end this because it wasuncomfortable and you can't
handle conflict andconfrontation about your shitty
behavior.
She never owned up to beingcontrolling and inappropriate

(37:48):
and treating him like a.
Somewhere she learned that theway to get respect is to break
balls.
I'm sure that was modeled forher somewhere, probably, like,
maybe by a social media person.
You know being like girl powersdon't take this shit from a man
.
Speak up for your worth, which,like there's a way to do that

(38:10):
right yeah um and uh and yeah,yeah, I was like what, what a
bad note to end on.

Yeah, what do you think?
What do you think happened?
Do you like you're saying thatit wasn't she?
She didn't break up with himbecause he didn't like her?
What do you think was theactual thing that made her made,
made the whole thing fall apart?

was the actual thing that made her made
, made the whole thing fallapart.
I think she didn't.
I think she can't trust apotentially good thing, um, and
she was too uncomfortable withbeing confronted for her
behavior, so much probably, andfelt like the safer thing to do
was to just walk and have a.
Maybe she thought it was a girlpal moment, I don't know, like

(39:01):
her claim that they have.
You know this, these physicalproblems doesn't really make a
lot of sense, given that he'sthe one who wanted to be more
physical during the day.
And then she turns around andis like you're not physical
enough with me at night, likemaybe because he's kind of
bummed that you won't touch himduring the hours between 7am and
midnight.
Like that bummed me out.

Yeah, I so many things.
First first thing was she is anexample of someone who might be
so shame prone and so crushedby shame that you could tell she
just doesn't do well with umgetting called out, right Like
she didn't take accountabilitymany times, even in the whole

(39:45):
Shelly conflict.
Um, where she was, shelly wasmad at her.
She kind of like she apologizesbut she collapses under it,
like when someone calls her out,she just you know, she either
says no, that's not my fault, Ididn't do this, or she like, you
know, like sobs.
So she really can't takecriticism.
And then I think you're right.

(40:07):
I think there's something sheshe's a good example of
something that I struggle withwhen it comes to the online
conversation about girl powerand a female empowerment.
There's this tendency to latchonto these, really, um, like
almost like flimsy signs ofpower, like to be like I need to

(40:31):
be treated like a queen, and ifthey don't treat me like a
queen, they're done Right queen.
And if they don't treat me likea queen.
They're done right and sosometimes like for her to what
that tends to look like.
Is it's okay and strong andpowerful for you to completely
yell at a guy or punish them fornot making a pancake in the way

(40:51):
that you want to?
Or the scene that I really likealex and I just died laughing
um was when she broke up withhim and then he's walking
through the water like the water, you know, yeah and she's like
you're not gonna, you're notgonna, hold me, you're gonna,

(41:12):
yeah, you're gonna, make me walkthrough this water.
And he's like, yeah, and I likeI just had this judgmental like
response of like you were justso like that feels like
entitlement, you to be hooked on.
These really like false signsof respect and care and how a

(41:39):
man should treat a woman likethey.
He should make a pancake,perfectly.
He should carry her through thewater that she's completely
missing.
This like other stuff thatthese guys do to be kind to her
like I thought it was reallyrespectful that, um chris, the
way he handled the breakup.
he was just like I, like you,but what's your opinion?

(42:01):
And she breaks up with him andshe says, well, let's be friends
around our friends, and he goes.
You know, I can't just stopliking you, so for now, I think
that has to be a no for me.
I'm like wow, that is a sign ofa man who's like treating her
well.
He's like owning his feelings,not being mean about it, but,

(42:23):
you know, setting his boundariesclearly.
I was like that that issomething that we should, that.
That that to me feels more likeprincess treatment than like
whether a pancake was madeperfectly.
You know what I mean.

Yeah, yeah, I mean also, it was an
interesting moment where hechose to sleep in soul ties and
she's like I think he's being alittle bit dramatic Like no,
he's not, he doesn't want tosleep next to somebody who
dumped him, like why can't youunderstand that, would you?
You know?
So it's, yeah, I mean I thinkyou know I have a bit of soft

(43:00):
spot towards her because I cantell that she has a lot of pain
and that she wants to workthrough it and that in some
moments she tries to, but shejust gets so triggered and I
think she would be exceptionallydifficult to be in a
relationship with right now.
I also think that she'llprobably get to a good place one
day because I think she hasgood intentions.

(43:21):
But there is some lesson thatshe's taken in that she needs to
like take no shit from men andthat she needs to call them on
it and also that, like breakingballs is charming.
You know, like she would.
She would criticize him, butshe would mean it in a cute way,
like it was.

(43:42):
There was an example when theyhad the baby together and I
don't know, I'm not going toremember it well enough to give
a good example, but Jeremiahwould complain about this too,
too, like when she would saysomething like good job, or she
would make herself the judge ofwhether something behavior was
good or bad, but she would sayit with a twinkle in her eye.

(44:03):
But the guy would be like no,gross, like you know, don't tell
me to never do something again,or you know, to I, I don't know
, I I wish I had a betterexample, but but I just I see
that behavior in women sometimesand it always goes poorly for
them because men don't like tobe patronized and ordered around

(44:25):
.

Yeah, yeah, I think that, uh, I think it's so
hard for us to know how toactually get control and feel
secure with men that we arelocking into certain behaviors
that are good or bad, as, like,I mean, I blame, I blame
Instagram, I blame myself.
You know like five signs, thatfive red flags that he is toxic,

(44:50):
and it's like, does he pull outthe chair for you or, so to
speak, right, like and there'sthese, all these behaviors that
are like held as the signs andthen it's seen as like you know,
owning, like knowing your worthby, by demanding those signs
right, demanding the green flagsand and punishing them out of

(45:10):
the red flags.
But no, those are signs ofsomething and just because
they're acting in a differentway, but it's like they're
looking, maybe she's justlooking for the wrong signs.
And the other thing I've feltwith her is and I don't know
this for certain, but I got thesense it's kind of like people

(45:33):
who've been through trauma orabusive relationships or have
borderline features.
There's this like hot, cold andand maybe this is my own
experience with people with BPD,where they, when they feel
rejected or unsafe or attachment, insecurity, they might shut

(45:55):
down.
Well fine, I'm out of here, youdo this and I I had enough,
let's break up.
So they cutting off the legs tosee if you crawl back.
So it sometimes feels like atest of like I'm going to remove
myself and and deprive, punishyou by depriving you of me,
cause you've hurt me.

Wait a minute.

Wait a minute .
Why are you leaving?
Why are you leaving?
The test was whether you cancome and chase me and show me
that you actually love me.
So it's like with Huda, she,she would yell at Jeremiah all
the time whenever he withdrew,and then he'd be like I'm sorry,
you're right, I do, I'm really,I promise I'm in this, and then

(46:35):
she'd be happy, right, until itdidn't happen.
So I wondered if, like Huda,was, you know, giving the cold
shoulder just to see if Chriswould rise up, but like most
people would be like okay,you're cutting me off, I'm out
of here.

Yeah, and his response really cut
through that.
He was like all right, cool, Ialready knew.
Yeah, and his response reallycut through that.
He was like, all right, cool, Ialready knew, thanks for making
it official, you know Likewe'll be fine.
And then, yeah, and then hertrying to get some sort of
closeness back oh well, we canbe friends, right, we'll be cool
.
No, but I don't hate you though, but I need to stop liking him

(47:13):
modeling like I don't have to bea dick in response to you
crashing out.
Apparently, that's new lingoI've learned from the show, by
the way.

I know it's everywhere, that's what the kids
are saying Crashing out.

I don't know.
I really demonstrated like Ifeel, like that's what a
therapist would do in responseto that kind of behavior to like
, okay, you made your choice andnow I'm going to make you live
in your choice.

I'm going to be respectful and kind, but you
made your choice and I have tostop liking or like I have to
stop liking you, or basicallyadmitting that, like in the face
of her rejecting him, he pulledback but said like I still like

(48:07):
you, like I'm the one whowanted to continue this, and I
was like wow, he's not afraid to.
You know, like in the momentwhen people get rejected, it's
tempting to be like well, Ididn't want you.
Anyway, you're need to likepretend that they're the
rejecter.
But he was just like I'm theone who likes you and you're
rejecting me, so I'm going to,I'm going to step back.

I thought it was like wow, it was
a fantastic moment for thosereasons that you say and also
because I think he was alsomodeling.
She chose to walk away when shefelt vulnerable and he is
modeling even when I'm rejected.
I'm still going to bevulnerable, but in a boundaried
and self-respectful way that Ilike you.

(48:53):
I have feelings for you, eventhough you don't like me, where
she right.
Walked presumably because she'sworried that she's not in
church.
She's shamed.

Yeah.

She's not good enough, she's rejected.
So I thought that was alsoreally power.
Yeah, really powerful.

So go, chris man, these men, I know men on
this show the emotional, theemotional maternity.
I don't think Austin maybe notso much, but, like a lot of them
, are pretty good.

I really liked Austin, though.
But yeah, I mean going back toAce, like I just thought, I
don't know.
I thought he handled most ofthat really well too.
I mean, I thought he let Shellycome to him for the most part,
but he was also able to say whathe believed in many, like many
instances.
I don't know, I was really intohim.
It's been a couple of episodessince I've seen him so I don't

(49:44):
remember, but um, I thought I'mjust having a thought okay.

I'm just having, I'm gonna just jump in
here.
I think I in the, I think inthe this past season of our
podcast or maybe last one, we'vebeen like, what's going on with
men, Uh-oh, what are we goingto do with?
Punishing the old, toxicmasculinity and leaving boys or

(50:12):
young men with, like what do Ido now?
How do I be a man and feelpowerful and not ashamed and not
like a dick for just being me?
Like, how do we course correcthere?
Like what do we do now?
And I think that you know weshould keep harping on these
moments when we I mean it mightbe a little, you know, like
they're not a Landria, but likea lot of these men demonstrate a

(50:35):
lot of emotional intelligence,and I think that's where our
value is resting.
More than I mean, of course, westill value, you know, success
or ambition or social dominancein other ways in men, Um, but I
think emotional intelligence isa lot more valuable for us than
brute force right Like insteadof being like man who's going to

(50:57):
hunt and have a hinge picturewith a fish and whatever, like
we.
We want a little bit more oflike.
Can you listen to my feelingsand can you express boundaries
in a really compassionate way?
Can you be vulnerable?
Can you talk about feelings?
Can you make friends?
I think those are the well likeyeah.

I mean a thousand, a thousand percent,
I think.
I think that the answer is not.
It doesn't have to be somysterious and confusing.
Men like to.
They always say this right, weprotect and provide.
Okay, well then, figure outwhat we actually need protection
from, like because we don'tlive with saber-toothed tigers
anymore.
We don't, you know, we're notat war in our country.
Like?

I love that.
Yeah, the thing that is thathas persisted is is we need to
be protected and before every,every one, every feminist jumps
in and says, oh, we're notprotected.
I mean, I was there when I waslike we don't need protection,

(51:59):
but when I got pregnant and I,you feel vulnerable, you feel
crazy, you feel like I have anew life, that like, I just
wanted to be protected, right.
But I think you're right.
Like, what men have to do nowto protect us is different than
when we were defending againstsaber-toothed tigers, which
that's an interesting like.

(52:19):
When, when, when were we humanbeings defending ourselves
against saber-toothed tiger?

but I see what you mean it's been a
while, but you know, I thinkthere, you know we lived in.
We lived in worse conditionsand you know yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah yeah.

A hundred years ago, Even more, Even, like
you know, like we don't needhand-to-hand combat men like
being able to command an army.
We need men to have theintelligence to be able to
operate drones.
No, never mind, don't.

Yeah.

That's not the thing.

I think , like you know, I look at Jason
and he makes me feel veryprotected and provided for.
Like is he a big, strong man?
He's a lanky, you know, sixfoot dude.
Like, yeah, he could probablyfight somebody successfully, but
I don't need him to.
That would make me feel lesssafe If he, like, went and had a
fight with somebody, unless itwas, like you know, purely

(53:15):
defensive.
He makes me feel safe becausehe takes care of shit he has.
He sets up a home in a way forit to be successful.
He always does his duty.
You know he's responsible andhe can handle me.
When I'm emotional, I get tofeel like younger, I can be

(53:38):
sweeter, I can be softer.
Men love us when we're soft,right.
So, like, build the conditionsthat allow our softness.
Otherwise we are going to haveto come in and, you know, be big
girls and that's not going tobe as pleasant.
So, like, you can still be men.
Just do it the way these loveisland dudes are.

(54:00):
They're doing a good job andthey're providing right.
They're making dinner for thelady or breakfast for the ladies
like they're.
They're the ones coming up withthe date ideas.
Like men can lead in all sortsof ways.

okay, this is inspiring me for the the cool
of mind instagram content andall that I you know, or even
just for the cool mind community.
Let's, I'm going to go throughthe show.
It's going to be my newobsession, so thank you so much
for you know, killing my wholeweek.
But I'm going to go through andfind, I'm going to find
examples of like the kind of menthat we want, Cause even Pepe,

(54:38):
right, Like Pepe was just.

I mean, I would date Pepe today if I
were single.
Oh my God.

That guy, his DMs are going to explode.
I mean he just was like honest,solid, same thing, like when he
was hurt that Hannah was votedoff and everything like that.
He just seemed like a soliddude, but emotionally present,
slow, kind, attentive, ugh, hot,I mean hot.

I mean hot.
Oh my God, Pepe.
I very rarely get attracted topeople on TV nowadays and he is
so outside my type from firstglance, like with the, you know,
just with the bro-y kind oflook, but holy shit, he was so
hot and most of it was hispersonality.
Shit, he was so hot and most ofit was his personality, he was

(55:28):
so modest.
But he clearly has a lot goingfor him.
You know that he just sort ofekes out like you don't know all
these things at first.
He's not showboating, he takeshis time, he makes women feel
like women, Like the whole.
You know, I was not surprisedthat they were voted so far
because, like people just wantto keep seeing him.
And Iris was perfectly fine.

(55:48):
I actually kind of it was sortof sweet because she could
clearly see his worth.
She's like, do you think heactually likes me?
Like, do you like she wouldseem really into him and um, and
he has this quality where he'snot desperate, Like he's not
chasing, he's pursuing just theright amount.

He oh my God, I could.
I could gush all day about Pepe, pepe's great Pepe.
Yeah, no, I like, I don't know.
I I, if you were single, I'dsay slide into his DMS, but
maybe I'll just make you slideinto his DMs anyway, okay.
Last thing I wanted to talkabout was all the controversies

(56:32):
about taking off.
What is it?
Ulyssia?
What's her name?
Ulyssia and Ciara because ofracist comments they had on
their Instagrams.

Do you know what Ciara's racist
comments were?

by the way, yes, but why don't you say it on
?
Why don't you say it now?

I'm not gonna say it.
I'm not allowed to say it.

You're allowed to say it okay, I'll say
it, it's asian people I thinkit's interesting that I feel
like in our previous experienceand in general, I feel like

(57:13):
white people tend to be moreupset about the Asian comments
than I feel I mean don't get mewrong Like if someone did did a
cheeky, like the times thatpeople have made fun of me for
being Asian, like they, it hurt,but I feel like there's, you

(57:33):
know, like there is some warsgoing on that I'm like I don't I
personally and I am sorry ifthis offends anybody I
personally wouldn't rip someoneoff of a show.
I think it does show a lack ofgood judgment because she's
going on a national televisionshow.
Go, scrub your Instagram beforeyou go on a show like that and

(57:56):
take off anything that hasanything to do with race or
anything else.
Right, just like be smart aboutthis, not the most kind, or
like use another word.
However, if she had, if thishad come out on the show and she
had deeply apologized and madeup for it and was like, oh my

(58:16):
God, I realized like this is sooffensive, I would be like, fine
, let her be on the show.
If it was an indicator of otherthings like I think someone.
Someone said on a podcast atsome point that Sierra was the
most fake person on the show.
I think Huda said this she's,or somewhere.
I saw this clip.
Maybe I just made it up in mymind and I'm just spreading

(58:37):
false news.
It's more stupid than juststupid.
Just just go through yourInstagram and just clean it up,
you know, or don't do thosethings.
Don't do them in the firstplace.
Don't think those things in thefirst place.

Don't use racial slurs but you know,
yeah, are you not having?
an opinion now, because youdon't want to step in it kind of
I mean look I got in troublewith duke for having a a good uh

(59:15):
a caption that said hashtagenglish, which is also an asian
dick.
It's just that.
In my case, it was a trip totaiwan with my taiwanese friend
who taught me that word as if itwas like a cool, accepted thing
that everybody said.
And it was back in 2015, beforethe Wokening.

(59:36):
But it was the same kind ofthing where you were like, guys,
this is not a big deal.
And all the white people werelike she can't come to Duke.
Guys, this is not a big deal.
And all the white people werelike she can't come to Duke.

I mean I, I think I think maybe I have a, I
have a particular bias.
I mean we were told, talk we.
I don't think we've done a lotof episodes on racism.
I I feel like I've beenenormously been um privileged by
living in New York.
Um things did change when I wasliving in North Carolina and
there was COVID and you knowlike the, the whole Asian racism
changed.

(01:00:13):
I think like maybe New Yorkersjust were a little nicer.
I remember going to Italy forstudy abroad and man amount of
racism towards asians that was alot that's allowed in europe is
staggering.
Like I would meet people andthey would ask me do I eat dog?

(01:00:34):
That'd be like number twoquestion um, I've had people go
like at me oh my god.
Like you know, I I've heard myitalian roommate I heard my
italian roommate talking to myother roommate about how
disgusting it is that morechinese people are moving to

(01:00:56):
italy and starting dirty,disgusting chinese restaurants.
And I was sitting there andthey were like oh, I forgot your
Chinese.
And I was like okay, like oh.
And another thing was that in myclass, in my Italian class, two
racist moments one time, um,they were teaching like idioms,

(01:01:22):
Italian idioms, and they weresaying like, uh, an idiom is
like just like bread, whichmeant this is so good Cause it's
just like bread.
And I was like I don't get it.
Like, just like bread, there'sother good things.
And they were like, would youunderstand better if it was
about rice?
Racist moment Number two iswhen we were like drawing

(01:01:46):
something on the board and we'reall picking markers and I
picked the red one and they wentred for the chinese one.
I don't know how this turnedinto a rant about me and my, my
moments of racism but, but, butI think, I think, think that
America has a really interestingstance on like racism and

(01:02:10):
Asians and it's been kind oflike a moving target.
I definitely know that there issome, but I'm going to tell you
guys, I've had wild amounts ofracism in other countries?

Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull (01:02:23):
I don't know.

Dr. Kibby McMahon (01:02:24):
I'm not that mad about Ciara I think she was
dumb.
I think it was a not nice thingto say.
However, you know like, and Ithink Ulyssia had the n-word on
her Instagram which yeah, whoawell?
Yeah, you know, I don't know.

I don't know that's my opinion.

I feel like I feel like we can do a better
job of having people apologizeand repent and not go so hard on
the cancel culture.

I mean that's the thing, Like I don't
know.
I mean, you know, like my, likeAlice, like I'd be interested
to hear how offended she wouldbe by that.
I bet she'd be pretty pissedoff.
It's not really for me to sayhow offensive it is, because
it's it's not a word I've heardin like 50 years.

That's why it's so weird.
I guess I know I mean, have youheard it?

It's just, it seems kind of
retrograde or something.
It's not since Italy, you knowyeah.

Not since Italy, you know.
Yeah, if Kung Flu was stillcirculating, that I feel like at
by our president that was moreoffensive.

I did not know that was something that
he said, oh yeah, publicly.
The Kung Flu was COVID.
That's so emblematic of hisstyle, like it's so childish

(01:03:54):
he's not canceled.
It's kind of funny I mean, Imean it is kind of funny, it's
like a funny right, but it'slike part of what's funny is how
immature it is.
Yeah, it's kung fu even.
No, that is chinese, isn't itokay?

yeah, okay well, so we're ending on the
note of don't be racist againstasians, oh my god, okay, all
right, let's do it.
Just a few minutes for this Ilook, I liked the arc.

I didn't totally buy the arc, um,
mainly because it seemed likeonce they got together, all they
talked about was how did we notsee the signs?
I was like, were there signs?
I don't remember thinking theyhad chemistry early on, but
maybe I was just distracted ornot paying enough attention.
And then, yeah, I'm like Ithink it would be beautiful if

(01:04:39):
they then went on and dated, andI hope that's what's happening.
But I wasn't like, oh yeah,these two people finally, you
know, like they've just been soblind to each other and now the
connection is unbelievablyobvious.
I don't know, I was like itcould be, you know, I just
couldn't tell it just is alittle bit more clear that they

(01:05:04):
were together out of convenience.

They seem to be friends, they seem to like
each other.
They tried kissing and then sheturned to sierra and was like
I'm sorry there were no sparks.
Um, we did it because we haveto be coupled up, because we're
both rejected and then at theend there was all these like
mysterious notes from fans abouthow we all wanted this coupling

(01:05:27):
.
I'm like fans or producersBecause like are they trying to
pull an Amaya here where it'slike America wants this?
But I think they were nicepeople.
I like watching both of them.
Nick and Alandria were justlike.
Seemed to be really lovely.

Like I'm rooting for them as human
beings.
Yeah, they were both great.
Their friendship's great.
If they are truly together,that's great.
It just wasn't obvious to methat it was real and it did seem
very convenient.

It looked like a bet because there have
been some Love Island UKs whereat the end, like some of the top
four, have been like friendcouples, where they just were
best friends and they were likewe're not romantically involved.
Maybe America will vote for usas a friend couple and that
never really worked.
I mean, they got like secondplace or something like that,
but like maybe they were justbetting, like we got to make

(01:06:21):
this look like a romance storybecause this yeah.
You know, let's, let's, let'sshoot our shot here.

Okay, what's your bet?
Will Pepe pick Iris or Hannahnow that he's back out in the
wild, or neither?

Neither Can you imagine how many DMs that
guy has, including probably us,even though we're like wifed up.
I mean, are you kidding?
That guy could pick fromliterally anything.
Maybe we'll see some salaciousrumor about maybe we could start

(01:06:55):
it here some salacious rumorabout how Pepe was seen leaving
the house of Hannah in themorning.
Maybe we'll see something likethat.

but I'm also interested in whether
Hannah would go for Charlie orPepe.
Ooh, I see her with Charlie alot more, but we also whatever.
I mean we got their bigemotional goodbye.
I guess she and Pepe have onetoo, and then, you know, will
Nick go back to Sierra?
It doesn't seem like it, causeI saw some reel where she was
like when you get this was soimmature she's like people

(01:07:29):
asking me how I'm doing.
Well, I flew to Mykonos aftergetting the villain edit on
national TV and getting dumpedby my boyfriend, who liked my,
who actually liked my bestfriend, or something like that.
I'm like I don't know that yougot the villain edit.
I thought you got a pretty goodedit.
You, I don't know that you gotthe villain at it.
I thought you got a pretty goodat it, you just did it.

She got no way.
Yeah, she got a good edit allthe way, and then they then they
just pretended that she didn'texist.
You know they just like whoops,right.
You know it's interesting.
It's interesting to think about, like love Island, how they
have to probably edit as they goversus, versus and then, and
then the story plays out versusthe bachelor where you guys were
.
You know, like your, forexample, your story was highly

(01:08:09):
minimized just because, like youleft early, like how different
your entire show would have been.
And have you gone one more week, right, yeah?
so it's interesting, like theycan't they can't retrospectively
make someone a villain.

Right right.
Yeah, I don't know.
I thought I had another funthing to say, but maybe I don't,
pepe, call me.
I'm not married yet.
You can also call Kibbe, she'smarried, but we'll probably

(01:08:45):
reconsider.

I think, alex , I think my husband would
actually go for it.
I think he'd be like let's,let's, let's open the doors here
to our marriage.
You know, we were all into Pepe.

Jason would not.
And, um, if you liked our recap, please give us five stars and
we'll see you next week.
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(01:09:19):
to the accuracy or sufficiencyof the information featured in
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The information, opinions andrecommendations presented in
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Thank you, advice, diagnosis ortreatment and should not be
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(01:09:46):
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The hosts do not endorse,approve, recommend or certify
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