November 27, 2024 • 43 mins
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Tis the season to be overwhelmed by family dysfunction! The holidays often unravel unresolved family dynamics and we often have to balance time with loved ones and our own sanity. In this episode, we delve into the emotional triggers that resurface during festive gatherings, like feeling like a child again around older relatives. We highlight the contrast between the idealized holiday narrative and the complex reality, especially when trying to set boundaries or deal with family conflicts. We share practical strategies for handling the post-New Year's blues and creating new traditions that embrace diversity and change.
Resources:
- If you need support dealing with family dysfunction, book a free consultation call with cohost Dr. Kibby: https://kulamind.com/onboarding
- If you have a loved one with mental or emotional problems, join KulaMind, our community and support platform. In KulaMind, work one on one with Dr. Kibby on learning how to set healthy boundaries, advocate for yourself, and support your loved one. *We only have a few spots left, so apply here if you're interested.
- Follow @kulamind on Instagram for science-backed insights on staying sane while loving someone emotionally explosive.
- For more info about this podcast, check out: www.alittlehelpforourfriends.com
- Follow us on Instagram: @ALittleHelpForOurFriends
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Happy.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Holidays, little Helpers.
It is about to be Thanksgivingand we're all into Christmas and
New Years, and this is such ajoyous time for many and also
kind of a hard time for others.
It is a time of being close tofamily members who we all love
and yet can drive us crazy.
(00:37):
It's also the time when wemight be with our loved ones who
are struggling the most.
I know that's true for me, Iknow that's true for Kibbe as
well.
So this episode is here to helpyou stay sane during the
holiday season.
I also want to say that Cool inMind is creating a community
for little helpers to chat, toshare resources, for Kibbe and I
(01:02):
to do Q&As, and that can alsobe a helpful way to stay sane.
It's like, can you connect withlike-minded others who are
going through the same thingsyou are and can kind of provide
some social support?
Kimmy, do you want to say moreabout that?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Yeah, I mean we really, really appreciate
hearing from all of you guys.
I mean we get messages from ouremail and through our Instagram
accounts talking about yourstories and really love hearing
all your personal stories, andwe keep thinking wouldn't it be
awesome if we could actuallyconnect people right?
There's so many people withsimilar struggles and I feel
like the one-on-oneconversations are amazing.
(01:40):
But also, you know, let's makea community where we all
interact and share ourexperiences.
So that's why Kool-Aid we'remaking like an online platform
that has the community but alsoone-on-one coaching with me,
with all these different tipsthat we talk about in the
podcast, like setting boundariesor paying attention to your own
feelings or grieving that youcould then also share with
(02:01):
community, and then digitaltools where you could just
access this.
Even if you're, like atThanksgiving dinner, you could
just like pull out your phoneand be like what do I do?
My, my mom's driving me crazy?
Um, and then you get the helpright right away.
So you could check out ourwebsite.
Cool of mine.
K?
U L A M I N?
Dcom.
Um.
But we'll also leave some linksin the show notes where you can
(02:23):
just go and we'll have a 30minute free consultation call
where you could just vent at mefor like 30 minutes about your
life and your family and wecould talk about how KulaMind
can support you best.
So amazing.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Well, I know that I'm spending Thanksgiving with my
in-laws and then Christmas andNew Year's with my family.
What are you anticipating foryour holiday season, Kibbe?
Speaker 2 (02:49):
I think it's like the anticipation, as you just said.
The anticipation to theholidays is like sometimes worse
than the actual holiday itself.
I am having a lot of peopleover to my house for
Thanksgiving making dinner.
We have my in-laws here, mystepmom, I have siblings and
then I invited my mom, but thatis a fraught relationship right
(03:16):
now.
So I'm anticipating a fun day,but more like guilt, anger,
shame, sadness, grief, all ofthe emotions around it.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
So it's great it's holidays right Guilt, anger and
shame as your Christmas presents.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Your birthday is snuck in there too, oh yeah,
yeah, I'm a Christmas babyDecember 22nd so it's like a
couple of days where everyoneflies to somewhere else on my
birthday.
So I'm like yeah, yeah, becauseeveryone gets like the travel
deals on the 22nd.
So I say goodbye to all thepeople that I love and then I'm
left alone with whateverChristmas blockbuster movie is
(03:54):
out, you know.
So I watch like a Marvel moviewith like the one or two people
around here, you know, and thencry.
I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
I hear that it is kind of accurate.
I feel like the 22nd is alsothe day that I would most likely
travel to christmas.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
What are you traveling?
Speaker 1 (04:15):
I'm going well.
I only have thanksgiving dayoff.
I had to take friday off, butI'm going to to North Carolina
to hang with my in-laws, jason'sfamily, while the rest of my
family goes to Mexico at thisresort that we've had a time
share out forever.
So everyone else is going tospend Thanksgiving in Mexico and
(04:38):
I will be in North Carolina,but it's fine.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Great, I mean, that sounds nice.
What kind of of, what kind ofthings do you navigate?
What kind of dynamics do younavigate during the holidays?
Speaker 1 (04:54):
I mean with my in-laws, it's going to be fine.
Um, you know there'll be some.
I think last time I broke downcrying, actually, yeah, because
I have spent.
I haven't spent Thanksgivingwith my parents in three years,
probably because they were allin Mexico three years in a row
or something.
I don't even remember.
But I think I got upset becauseI'm in a relationship with
(05:17):
somebody who has a kid and soit's really hard to get him to
spend holidays with my familyfamily, because that means
taking his kid away from, like,his family.
And I just had this projectionof like are we ever going to be
able to spend holidays with myfamily?
Are we always going to be splitup?
So I cried about that, but this, yeah.
(05:39):
So this year I'm with him forThanksgiving, I'm with my
parents, my family, forChristmas, then Jason will come
for New Year's.
That's what we've done.
My holidays with my family areinteresting.
I mean, I'm close with myfamily.
I super love my family.
I wouldn't say the dynamic issuper easy.
I always look forward to theholidays and then, once I'm
(06:03):
there, I always have this likecrazy physical anxiety and I
just I'm.
I'm like always going to myhappy place, which is just like
breathing and shutting down myemotions and flipping through a
cookbook.
Just shut down.
(06:25):
All the like frenetic, anxiousenergy from my mother and from
my parents bickering, um, youknow my niece and nephew like
screaming and waking me up atsix in the morning.
Uh, the biggest thing isprobably that you know my
sister's an alcoholic and everytime the family's together, it's
traditionally been a bigtrigger for her.
A variety of reasons that haveto do with her.
Um, and we just like constantlyhave to be on guard for that.
(06:51):
Do we drink?
Don't we drink?
Why is she in the basement.
So long, you know, is sheacting a little bit strange.
Is that alcohol?
Or is that just she's, you know, hyped up on the holidays or
just you know she's kind ofmanic energy in general, so a
(07:11):
lot of that you know she doesdrink.
Then it's very much like she'sprobably gonna say something
shitty to me.
Um like what?
There was one holiday wherenikki wanted to bring her
ex-boyfriend and he in my mindhad been behaving emotionally
abusively and also his energyreminded me of my ex and brought
(07:33):
back just a lot of liketriggery kind of feelings.
And you know my family was notready to welcome him back with
open arms and so we put amoratorium on him coming on
Christmas day.
We're like he can come the nextday and anyways, nikki, just I
could hear her talking on thephone with my mom and she was
saying kind of shitty thingsabout Jason, not anything about
(07:57):
him personally, but just likewhy is Jason allowed to come?
And dah, dah, dah, dah.
He's not like part of thefamily yet, that kind of thing.
And then I heard her saysomething like you know what,
fine, I'll just drop off mychristmas presents at the door.
I know that's the only thingjacklyn cares about anyway.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
I was like come on, thank you.
That's great.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
That'd be much easier I mean I do love presents, but
can we move on from this versionof me as like an entitled,
selfish 10 year old who justwants the goodies?
I mean, it was just, you know,she'll just say things that she
that indicate that she hascertain beliefs about me or that
(08:38):
she knows will get under myskin.
And we, just when she said that, I just like took the phone,
put her on speakerphone and juststarted like screaming at her.
And it was funny because I wasactually screaming nice things
and I'm like this is because Ilove you, nikki, I don't want to
see you.
When somebody doesn't treat youwell, what do you get?
It was just like crazy and thatactually didn't calm her down.
(08:58):
Uh, but yeah, I mean it'll justbe like little digs and just
people comment on my lifechoices who are more mature and
(09:28):
older than me and wiser, um, andkind of take me back to feeling
like a child, um, so I don'tknow that stuff is that, stuff
is there.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
I think I do remember when you had that holiday you
were texting me and it just isso emblematic of all the things
that could be stressful aboutthe holidays.
It's like we regress.
You know we're forced to be notforced, but we, you know, come
together with family membersthat we spend all of our time
(10:03):
individuating from, likebuilding life outside of, and
then when we come together, Ifeel like all my teenager self
comes out and we are who we like, our worst selves, you know,
like my 13 year old self aroundmy mom when you get together,
but then it's like for such anintense period of time that it's
(10:24):
such high expectation for goingwell, right, like.
This is what I hate about.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
like Valentine's Day or Father's Day or all those
Hallmark holidays where you'rejust inundated with ads that are
like it's time to enjoy, andthen everyone's like opening
presents or eating food andenjoying each other, and then
it's just like we regress in asituation where it's supposed to
be nice and picture perfect andthen you have all of our coping
(10:48):
mechanisms right, like eitherhaving your friends or family or
you know friends are likecoping mechanisms that's
supposed to keep you sane, butif your family doesn't want,
like your support, buddy, thatyou know it's just like it's so
much in such a short period oftime yeah yeah, I think another
thing that was always unique tomy holiday experience was being
(11:09):
the youngest by such a largemargin where, you know, when I
was still like an early teenager, my siblings were like my
sister was in residency, sheoften couldn't come for
Christmas, like my brotherswould bring home a girl or she'd
bring home a guy and I'd haveto watch the Christmas change
(11:30):
and not have the same traditionsand still be like really
wanting that and um, now I'mtotally used to it and it's fine
, but I've definitely had to letgo of like what Christmas is
supposed to look like and sortof not have they just not be
disappointed when certaintraditions don't happen, not be
upset if Christmas doesn't evenhappen on Christmas day, because
(11:50):
all of my siblings are managingChristmases with their spouses
and and I think that can also beharder for I mean, another part
of this was like then when Igot older, feeling very lonely
because I didn't have a partnerand all of my siblings were
partnered up and I'd be, youknow, the one like doing the
dishes well, because everybodyelse was like a guest or with
(12:10):
their guest.
And now it's a different dynamic.
But I think what my sister'sgoing through is she's the
oldest and she's divorced andlost custody of her kids and so
she has to like look at allshe's lost every time we're
together and I think that's whyit's super triggering for her
over the holidays.
And so, yeah, I think thatthose of us who have gone
(12:32):
through like divorces or aresingle over the holidays and the
rest of our family is partneredor happy or has kids, and if
you're going through likefertility struggles, you know
it's really painful to probablybe around your nieces and
nephews.
There's just a lot that can comeup for people.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Yeah, there's a lot of grief and what you have
missing in that picture perfectlife.
Like I know that it's like ananniversary, it's around.
My dad's birthday was December29th and so like that, and you
know, everyone having theirfamily around is like there's
always like this undercurrent ofgrief and there's no room for
that.
There's no like you know, noone on Christmas wants to hear
(13:12):
like, oh, I wish my dead dadwere here.
You know, like it's just, it'snot a time for, it's a time for,
like shoveling everything down,being with the people who bring
up all of your demons and thenpretending, you don't have any
demons.
People who bring up all of yourdemons and then pretending you
don't have any demons and youdon't have any of the coping
mechanisms that you spent anentire adulthood like building
away from them.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
So it's just like perfect storm yeah, I it's.
Wow, you have some.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
You have a complicated december yeah, I
guess I do where dates lie.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
So what is, what is your plan for your mom this
Christmas?
Speaker 2 (13:47):
I'm just having a hard time with, like her mom
passed away recently and her momwas like the focal point of her
pain, kind of like this distant, emotionally absent,
self-absorbed mom who didn't payattention to her in the way
that she needed and that reallyhaunted her throughout all of
throughout her marriage,throughout parenting me and now
(14:09):
with my son, and for like cancerrecovery and different reasons
I was, I tried to ask for, Imean, what came across as like a
boundary or a limit to be like,can you play with Jackson here
at my house instead of at yourhouse?
And I just kind of likerequested for some changes in
(14:32):
what she wanted.
And in that conversation sheinterpreted some of what I said
as like attacking her and shegot really upset and I tried to
clarify what I meant by that.
I clarified that I'm notattacking her.
She, you know, misinterpretedwhat I was saying and ever since
(14:53):
then, I mean it's just been anightmare Like like she keeps
asking to, you know, take him todo other things.
I keep saying no and I did thething that I told patients to do
.
I you know all the good thingswhere I'm like I asked for what
I need and then, like try toreinforce it.
I'm like we love you so much.
I you know, like it would begreat.
I really value yourrelationship with my son.
(15:16):
Why don't you have a specialday once a week here at my house
?
You could do whatever you wanthere.
It'll be your special day.
It'll be amazing, whatever.
No, nothing works, just nothingworks.
It's just.
I think what is most upsettingis that she leans in with like
deep insults, like characterattack with me.
(15:39):
She does oh my god, man, it'sjust like.
It's not just I'm pissed offthat you won't let me do what I
want to do with my grandson.
It's now I know who you reallyare.
Now I know what kind of personyou are.
How could you banish me likethis?
How could you be so heartless?
Everyone is turning you againstme, alex is turning you against
me, and we've had to haveseveral emails and text messages
(16:02):
where we're like no, we loveyou.
No one's against you.
We're just asking if you could.
No, it's just even just likethat little rejection, that
little boundary is like thischaracter.
We don't love her, we'rekicking her out of our lives.
And it's just so frustratingbecause it's interesting, I'm
watching Alex have the sameimpulse that I've always had,
(16:22):
but I've always learned to justlike suppress, which is, if I
show her the evidence, if I likescreenshot what I said, show
her the million times we said Ilove you, please come over with.
Then she'll be like oh gosh,you're right, I'm just this.
These holidays are just reallyhard for me.
I'm just, I feel really sad.
(16:42):
I just want to connect orwhatever, and then we'll all hug
and be like it's okay, I loveyou.
You know that fantasy of usingreason and logic is still there
and it just, it's just a fantasyand it's just like so
validating to watch someone elsehave that same impulse and I'm
just like, oh man, that's,that's what I have inside all
(17:05):
the time.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Yeah, yeah, well, that would.
That would maybe normally workwith other people to show
evidence.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
It would.
What drives me crazy, and droveme like literally crazy in so
many parts of my life, is herperception of the situation cut
out.
All the things that she does tome, like all of the insults,
all the things that she says,all the ways that she's hurt me,
are literally like gone in hermind.
It's really weird.
Like I could show herscreenshots of her own I could.
(17:36):
I used to show her likevoicemails that she used to
leave, like telling me I'm likea horrible child.
How could she give birth to me?
She hates me, she never wantsto see me again and and I'll
like play it for her and she'llbe like no well you made me say
that and it just is like itdoesn't register as part of the
interaction.
Therefore, in her mind, I'm justdoing all the cutting out,
(18:01):
boundary, setting away and sheonly just like loves yes, I
don't know like even justtalking about it, I bet, I bet.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Well, it's an interesting entitlement to just
be able to emote at somebody and, just like, express your
emotions however you want atthem, and then they are supposed
to accept and not push you away.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
You know that, like your actions have no
consequences, I think it'sclicking in a new way now
because I'm watching mytwo-year-old do it and it makes
so much sense because he justdoesn't.
He's just a ball of emotion,doesn't get agency or that, he's
another person.
So he'll like, he'll tantrumand do this and and then we'll
have to take off like wipe hisface, we'll have to do something
to manage the tantrum, and thenhe's like tantruming about that
(18:49):
.
I'm like, dude, you're notgetting TV because you're
tantruming, like do you not seethe consequences of your actions
?
But it's, yeah, it's just likea lonely, lonely feeling because
like, like, I have to hold bothsides.
I have to be like, sure, I saidsomething that hurt your
feelings and then you screamedat me forever and I have to hold
(19:12):
both of that and you just holdone of it.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Yeah, that brings up another kind of thing that I
think can be difficult duringthe holidays, which is that if
you go to in-laws house and youhave your little kid, the your
in-laws may parent your kids incertain way.
They my sister-in-law and my momgot into this tiff because my
mother, like she set a boundarywith my niece that was
(19:39):
reasonable and he said my niecehad agreed to it.
And then, as kids do, that wasreasonable and he said my niece
had agreed to it.
And then, as kids too, my niecebroke the boundary.
We were basically supposed tohave an adult.
We were, we had a bunch of kidtime and then we were supposed
to have some adult time and myniece, like wanted that to still
be kid time, right.
And so my mom was, like shesaid kind of firmly, said no,
this is adult time.
(20:00):
And so my niece, like went andcried and my mom like let her
cry and my sister-in-lawcouldn't handle that, and so
they got into like a little bitof a tiff, um, and it's
interesting because if you're atsomebody else's house, like
grandparents have to have somesort of authority, especially if
you're in the grandparentshouse, and it's also hard to
like not be the only parent toyour kids.
(20:22):
I mean, besides you and your,you know your husband, um, who
you can scream at if you want to, and you can be more kind of
authentically, like pissy, thanlike with your, with your
in-laws.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
So how did that resolve?
Like, how do you guys resolvethat?
Speaker 1 (20:41):
uh, I think with a brief cold war Great.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Cool, yeah, it seems like the tip is stuff down your
emotions.
Yes, distract yourself, getthrough and then hide the way
you're feeling from your lovedones for all the time.
I think that's.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
It's interesting because every time I go home
that is what I'll do, kind ofwith my siblings, I think, and
then my mom.
Our holidays are booze festsfirst of all.
So I'll be on like my 18thdrink or something that's an
exaggeration sort of, but likewith my parents downstairs in
the living room after everyonehas gone and just like
(21:23):
debriefing about everything.
And there'll often be tears,usually my mother's um, not
because I'm being mean to her,but because we're talking about
just like family dynamics andwhere things go wrong.
And we'll have these debriefsoften about my sister, like
every single night for theholiday season where I'm just
like ruminating at her, um, butyeah, I just it does feel hard
(21:51):
not to just suppress the wholetime, because you know it's time
limited and so it's like okay,if I can just like breathe and
just push this down and keepgoing, then we don't have to do
this again until Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Yeah, I mean, I think , I think that this might be one
of those circumstances whereall the things that we talk
about are bad, like distraction,suppression, hiding your
feelings, not communicating.
This might be a time where,like it's actually effective
because it's short term, right,that's like, ideally,
(22:30):
thanksgiving, you know Christmaslike these are all.
Like certain days you go travel.
That's also horrible andexpensive and stressful.
You're staying somewhere else,kid, you know, kids just make
that even worse and then youjust have to get through.
Right, you just get through,don't like, don't make the
situation worse, distresstolerance skills all the way.
(22:52):
And then when you come backhome, then you could like lean
into, go to therapy, get coolmind, lean into your feelings
and then, yeah, I mean, at leastI'm tempted to use the holidays
as the time to talk about allthe things and why we're like
this and whatever.
But that might not be the timebecause there's no, you can't
(23:14):
follow up after that, you can'tactually implement that on a
daily basis if you're not seeingthese people.
So, just eggnog, apple pie,booze, like, whatever you know,
alcohol use around the holidaysdoes go up.
We were looking at what, whatthe research says about what
happens around the holidays interms of mental health and I I
(23:37):
don't know if you're seeing thisnow, but as therapists we see
everyone's dressed out now.
Therapy is just just feels alot heavier.
People are like suddenly oldghosts are emerging and there
was this systematic review thatwe found in Frontiers of
Psychiatry.
We're wondering if Christmas orthe holidays leads to like more
(23:57):
hospitalizations and suicideand emergencies.
But actually not AroundChristmas and New Year's is
actually the lowest,surprisingly, probably because
they're around people and thenactually there's a bounce back
where in January, that's whenthere's an increase in suicides
and hospitalizations, so it'swhen people go home and then sit
(24:18):
with all their lonely feelings.
Right right, that's the problem.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Yeah, I mean I would think the holidays would be hard
for people who don't havefamily, but that might be a
relatively smaller portion ofthe population that's not
getting picked up by these,these data.
It's interesting because we'resaying like okay, when is it
appropriate to suppress over theholidays and when is it not?
And I think the real questionis, when is it effective to
(24:46):
introduce conflict, to haveconflict with family members,
versus just getting through it?
I don't know that we need to besuppressing our emotions the
whole time.
I would probably suggestcarving out some breaks where
you can be with yourself,decompress a little bit.
Where you can be with yourself,decompress a little bit, you
(25:10):
know, just talk to other friends.
If you need to get kind of asanity check by by, I think
connecting with other friendsduring this time can be helpful,
because if you are regressingwhile you're at home, you can
become, you can inhabit youradult body again once you
interact with people who you arean adult around.
Yeah, so that's possible, um,but yeah it it's interesting
(25:34):
that january comes and suddenlyI I don't know what it is.
I mean it could be as simple asnow.
I have this long stretch ofmonths with like no holidays and
that means I have to just workand it's cold and seasonal
depression hits.
Yeah, or if it's actuallyrelated to the holiday and
what's stirred up then, mm, hmm.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Yeah, I mean, I bet that's a perfect storm, right
it's.
You go see all your family sitwith all the people who created
your, all your negative corebeliefs and inner critic, and
then you don't have money andthen it's the darkest time of
year and it's cold and you'realone and there's I hate, I hate
the like post New Year's Evetime, because that stretch from,
(26:17):
at least in New York, januaryto like March.
It's just you're done with thecozy winter stuff, like there's
no more hot chocolate.
There's just like sad slushingthrough gray snow in the dark,
going to work.
No one wants to go out.
I think there's like there's nolike holiday or social
gathering that brings peopletogether.
(26:38):
Everyone just wants to stay intheir house and mope and yeah,
so it's just like the mostbummer time.
And for people who've had likemental health issues, going to
see their family or beingreminded they don't have family
and then left with all that it'sjust I would think that's the
perfect storm.
I would think that's like thehardest time.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
I agree.
I usually try to plan a trip inJanuary or February to have
something to look forward to.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
That's so smart.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
M in January or February to have something to
look forward to, that's so smart.
Maintain the momentum Summertropical that's so smart,
actually, I might just do that.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
I might actually just like take that tip and just do
that.
Thank you, Dr Jackman.
Yeah, you're welcome.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
It's kind of a privileged tip, though I don't
know if everybody has the moneyto just yeah, yeah spend more
money.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
It's supposed to do more travel and don't work.
Got it.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Got it.
Do you want to?
Speaker 2 (27:27):
go on a trip.
Actually, Do you want to dothat?
Do you want to do like a girls?
Speaker 1 (27:30):
weekend somewhere, very possible.
Yeah, depending on PTO.
I mean, I could do a shortthing.
I don't think Jason's going totake me to Belize, or let me
take him to Belize, jason takeme to Belize.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Little helpers encourage Jason to bring
Jacqueline to Belize.
That's like a thing that shewants in her relationship.
So let's all support Jacqueline.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
His Instagram handle is at mammothhammer.
If you write to him there andtell him you're looking for a
real estate photographer andwhen he responds, say take
Jacqueline to Belize and we canhave a whole.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Yeah, give him hope that he has a job and then
confront him with thisrelationship.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Yeah, take it away.
It's a really hard season rightnow too, so he'll definitely
respond.
No, please, actually, what is?
Speaker 2 (28:18):
what is it like?
You know, the blended familiesthing is interesting, especially
because, like, you're datingsomeone with a child.
What is it like to have tosplit your holidays and then do
a holiday with, like, a familythat you're getting to know and
like you're integrating with?
Speaker 1 (28:34):
yeah, I mean the first time we did it was
actually really fun.
Um, I hate to say it, butprobably because everybody got
drunk and it was my first timelike really meeting them and we
just, I don't know, everyone waslike goofy and fun.
Jason, I made out hardcore onthe couch in front of everybody
and his mother had to talk tohim about that and how
inappropriate it was.
So that's quite a firstimpression.
(28:56):
It's so funny.
I'm so gross with PDA, so gross.
Anyways, the second holiday wasdry because one of the members
of his family was strugglingwith alcoholism and that was a
little bit more awkward.
I mean, I was just sort ofsitting quietly a lot of the
(29:17):
time.
Oh yeah, I cried also becauseJason, jason and I, the thing,
we fight about two things andtwo things only.
We talk, we fight about howwe're not going to Belize and
decorating, and we had gotteninto some very small tiff where
(29:39):
Jason indicated that he wouldnot let me incorporate any of my
furniture into the home when wemoved in together, which
actually is the case and he saidI mean, it's just a completely
absurd position, you know, andhe and he knows that.
But he said it and I was justlike, ok, I can't just fight
with him right now, like we'reat Thanksgiving, so I just get
(30:01):
really stony silent, fight withhim right now, like we're at
thanksgiving, so I just getreally stony, silent.
And then he did the right thingand came to me later and was
like I'm sorry, that was.
You know, I, I can't just havemy way all the time.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Or something like that.
How do you explain that hecouldn't have just said hey, you
can't put any of the furniturein our house I was talking about
moving my stuff in and he waslike oh no, no, we don't need to
change anything.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
It was, it was some comment that indicated that he
didn't think it was true that Iwas helping to decorate our home
.
He's like but it looks so niceas it is.
I see, I don't know exactlywhat it was, but because he's so
nice when he says things thatyou, so imagine being like you
know yeah, gross furniture.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
I'm sure it was like.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
I love you.
Sometimes he'll say somethingthat's so absurd and I'm like,
why can't you see that it'scompletely absurd?
And then I'll try logickingwith him and he's just like nope
.
So anyways, that's just lifewith a stubborn person.
But, um okay, tips, tips, tips,tips suppression.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
We've got that one, yeah drinking uh go on a travel
vacation in january yeah, yeah,definitely.
It seems like using cope ahead,knowing that january is the
hardest month for mental health,and plan some sort of social
gathering.
For example, with our friendNed, we are watching Aliens and
(31:30):
the Predator series, and thenthey merge to Alien versus
Predators.
So we have to watch all themovies in sequence, so that will
carry us through some of thewinter, and so you do that.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Yeah, I mean the ones that are feasible and like you
know, yeah, I think theprinciple and I was on the same
wavelength is like holidaysdon't have to end at New Year's
Eve.
You know you can create somesort of friend's holiday or some
tradition, anything to keep themomentum going during those
dark winter months.
And honestly, like I do loveValentine's day.
(32:07):
I think partly for this reasonit does give me something to
look forward to, something toplan for, and I I really go all
in with it and I think that'shelpful.
But I think coping ahead is agood strategy, checking in on
each other during that month,knowing that it is the hardest
month for mental health, youknow, being more proactive, like
(32:29):
I think one of the reasonsseasonal depression is a thing
is because people do stay in anddo nothing for three or four
months.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Yeah, all the gyms and the fitness companies out
there have crazy deals inJanuary, because I know that's
the time and like take advantageof them, because at least it
gives you something to the thenews resolution.
As silly as it is sometimes,like use that as a boost and go
go exercise.
That's like the number onething for mental health yeah, go
(32:55):
exercise.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Let's keep doing fun stuff.
I would.
I think one thing that could behelpful is, for Christmas,
maybe getting people.
I mean, this is maybe somethingto get like a partner or like
somebody you're willing to spenda lot of money on, or getting
yourself some kind of membershiplike a pottery class like
pottery classes or somethingthat's going to force you out of
(33:16):
the house every week for awhile.
It's like art classes or gymclasses or you know, just like
something, something to get youout to look forward to and, I
think, coping ahead for theholiday with, like, okay, you
know, is this, what are yourvalues telling you?
Is this a time you want to haveconflict with family who have
political disagreements or somekind of disagreements?
(33:37):
Like, is it worth it?
Are you avoiding conflict justbecause you avoid conflict or
because it's maybe not supernecessary to to handle shit at
that time, knowing that also,holidays are a group effort and
sometimes having conflict withanother member of the family can
be a real downer for everybodyelse, and so managing that, I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
it feels weird to be like people please and suppress,
but it's only a few days, yeah,I mean, I I talked to one of my
friends who was struggling with, like you know, we're going
down with our whole family, with, like, our kids, and it will
make our parents really happy ifwe stay with them and that will
kind of reduce some conflict.
But at the same time, we'regoing to go nuts.
(34:18):
You know, living there, and soI was really pushing on.
You know, just get an Airbnb,just get a hotel if you could
afford it, or stay with a friend.
There might be these small waysthat can be like taking the hit
for the long-term gain, right.
Like, maybe take some time toyourself or make sure that you
(34:38):
have a little bit of space, thatyou can go and have your own
space.
You could do your own thing.
You could do your own thing.
You would have an activity orsomething to do.
You know, a dinner with afriend If you're going home for
the holidays, something thatgives you that, that release
valve, so that, yeah, sure, yourparents might be kind of upset
about that, but at the same timethat will prevent a huge
(34:59):
blowout.
And you kind of you knowreaching your limit, then take a
huge blowout.
And you kind of you knowreaching your limit, then take
those little like self-care tips.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
you know, yeah, my parents are good in like
allowing us, allowing us to havedate nights with our partners
during that time too.
Where it's like, okay, I justneed to reconnect with my safe
person and not be around theentire family right now.
It sounds like such a bummer,though I mean, there are things
to love about the holidays too,and maybe like leaning into that
(35:27):
is also helpful, instead ofjust trying to get away from the
difficulties.
Sure, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
This is still kind of more of the negative side, but
I guess one thing you can leaninto is that if you are bummed
out in January, I think thatsometimes it's nice for me to
look at how much, how far I'vecome from what I used to be
interacting with my family and Icould see all the things that
come up in me, like the anger,the impulsivity, the need to
(36:00):
fight, the need to be right.
And then I look at now and Ilook at all the anger and the
impulsivity no need to fight,the need to be right and then I
look at now and I look at allthe anger and the impulsivity.
No, I'm kidding, I've come along way.
I've found a partner that Ilove, made a family that I'm
really happy.
I've grown up a lot, andsometimes the regression's kind
of nice because in the momentit's horrible, but then you
(36:21):
could remind yourself, wow, I'm.
I'm a different person than Iused to be around these people
and I'm going to have three dayswhere I'm like my worst teenage
self but actually I can go backto my home and just be grateful
that I've.
You know, I've grown since thenand if you haven't, then like
maybe that could give you a tipof what you need to change.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
I agree, I think, and also remembering how many like
lonely holidays I had, you know,I would always back then try to
remind myself someday I'm goingto be partnered forever and I
will never get to be alone again, and so it doesn't have to be a
bad thing to be lonely in theholidays.
I mean, I know it's hard and Iknow when you are lonely it's
(37:02):
it's hard to believe that you'llever not be lonely.
Um, I think getting likeleaning really into the holiday
can be kind of helpful.
I mean, once over Thanksgivingwe had my brother has a potato
chip company and we had thisstupid idea because we were
(37:24):
drinking of making a home videoof like a wedding of a
commercial for the chip companybasically, and I wound up like
running through pluff mud in themarsh and wearing like trash
bags and tool or something as afake wedding dress and it was
really fun and it really tookaway the anxiety of the day
(37:45):
because everybody had a project,everybody was leaning into the
spontaneity of it, um, and itwas just something different to
do I think I'm gonna link thatvideo to the show notes as a
resource and then not explainwhat that is you have to listen
to this like no, because thatwas such a funny video.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
I remember seeing you'd be like what is happening.
How is this about potato?
Speaker 1 (38:07):
chips.
I was brave enough to post thatat the height of my bachelor
fame too, so, but yeah, it wassuch a, it was such a great
memory, you know.
I mean my sister and I weren'tfighting because she was making
me a wedding dress instead, likeit was.
It was such a, it was such agreat memory, you know.
I mean my sister and I weren'tfighting because she was making
(38:29):
me a wedding dress instead, Likeit was.
It was just about she waspouring me drinks instead of
drinking them herself.
She was like you're gonna havefun with this.
Doing a unique Thanksgiving.
Like I think Thanksgiving canbe kind of drab because you're
cooking the same thing everytime, but one year we did an
Asian Thanksgiving where it wasjust like you know Asian
influences and all of the youknow appetizers and the turkey,
(38:51):
and just shaking it up, doingsomething new, creating new,
like keeping traditions, butalso maybe developing some new
ideas.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
Yeah, I like that, yeah, I'm looking forward to
Thanksgiving because it's like Igo full like pajama.
You know, just like eating,like eating a ton of food,
inviting whoever's around, andthen just like watching movies,
like you know so muchpreparation, and then you eat it
for like 10 minutes and thencouch time, so it's.
It's fun in its own way, like Ilove, just like falling asleep
(39:23):
on the couch, that's.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
Yeah.
And I would say you know, ifyour traditions are make you
happy reliably, then amazing.
One thing that kind of upset meas I was growing up is that the
traditions would change and youknow, we used to have like a
gingerbread.
There was a graham crackerbuilding contest, um, grandkid
house building contest, girlsversus boys.
And those things fade in someyears, especially when kids come
(39:47):
into the picture.
Like it's not going to happen inthe same way and the holidays
might start to be about yournieces and nephews or your kids
and having some flexibilityaround the idea that, like it's
sometimes doing a traditionhalf-assed is more depressing
than just skipping it.
And so it's kind of like, okay,do we does this Christmas have
(40:08):
to look exactly like previousChristmases or can it be its own
and like can we find ways tomake this appropriate for who we
have here?
And you know, I don't know I've, I know I've had to just get
really flexible around what theholidays looked like.
I used to be so nostalgic forChristmas and I wanted it to be
like little women every year andwasn't.
(40:28):
But you know, and I'd like holdon to what they were like when
I was a kid.
But I was a kid back thenthat's why they were magical,
and so I guess releasing someexpectations for the holidays
looking a particular way can behelpful.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Yeah, and I guess releasing some expectations for
the holidays, looking aparticular way, can be helpful.
Yeah, and even, just like Ilike what you're saying,
creating new traditions andcreating new traditions for the
young people too.
Like now, you're making methink, like, what kind of family
tradition do I want Jackson togrow up with?
Like, what do I want him toassociate?
And we could create whatever wewant you know, so we can play a
game or do something cool.
And I'm trying to, we're tryingto figure out how to familiarize
him with both, like hischristian background, but also
(41:07):
his jewish background.
Like you know, we could do likea series of presents for
hanukkah and then, you know,christmas.
So, yeah, there's a lot of liketradition building that could
happen.
And now, actually, you'remaking me think that we should
incorporate this into the coolmind community where we I'm just
thinking about how I want tohear all the little helpers and
what they're doing for theirtraditions, that they're looking
forward to, but also buildingin some group support during the
(41:30):
hard times, either just to ventabout the family, the, the
holidays, or to do like somekind of group event around
january, just so it's somethingthat you do from your home but
still feel connected, even whenit's like so gross outside.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
Well, little helpers, I hope you have happy holidays
instead of lonely or stressfulholidays.
I'm guessing it's a little bitof a combo, but we will be here
for you again in two weeks.
One thing that I think would beactually a tip for everybody is
to start the new tradition ofgiving us five star ratings on
(42:07):
apple podcast and spotifywhenever you can.
It's kind of like christmascaring you know, and paying it
forward.
Yeah, paying it forward.
Gift give it right giving us agift, giving it, as my said, all
I care about are the presents.
So we'll be looking forward tothose gifts from you and we'll
(42:27):
see you in two weeks.
By accessing this podcast, Iacknowledge that the hosts of
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to the accuracy or sufficiencyof the information featured in
this podcast.
The information, opinions andrecommendations presented in
this podcast are for generalinformation only and any
reliance on the informationprovided in this podcast is done
(42:47):
at your own risk.
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non-commercial informationalpurposes only and do not
constitute the practice ofmedical or any other
professional judgment, advice,diagnosis or treatment, and
should not be considered or usedas a substitute for the
independent professionaljudgment, advice, diagnosis or
(43:08):
treatment of a duly licensed andqualified healthcare provider.
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such approval or endorsement.
Happy.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Holidays, little Helpers.
It is about to be Thanksgivingand we're all into Christmas and
New Years, and this is such ajoyous time for many and also
kind of a hard time for others.
It is a time of being close tofamily members who we all love
and yet can drive us crazy.
(00:37):
It's also the time when wemight be with our loved ones who
are struggling the most.
I know that's true for me, Iknow that's true for Kibbe as
well.
So this episode is here to helpyou stay sane during the
holiday season.
I also want to say that Cool inMind is creating a community
for little helpers to chat, toshare resources, for Kibbe and I
(01:02):
to do Q&As, and that can alsobe a helpful way to stay sane.
It's like, can you connect withlike-minded others who are
going through the same thingsyou are and can kind of provide
some social support?
Kimmy, do you want to say moreabout that?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Yeah, I mean we really, really appreciate
hearing from all of you guys.
I mean we get messages from ouremail and through our Instagram
accounts talking about yourstories and really love hearing
all your personal stories, andwe keep thinking wouldn't it be
awesome if we could actuallyconnect people right?
There's so many people withsimilar struggles and I feel
like the one-on-oneconversations are amazing.
(01:40):
But also, you know, let's makea community where we all
interact and share ourexperiences.
So that's why Kool-Aid we'remaking like an online platform
that has the community but alsoone-on-one coaching with me,
with all these different tipsthat we talk about in the
podcast, like setting boundariesor paying attention to your own
feelings or grieving that youcould then also share with
(02:01):
community, and then digitaltools where you could just
access this.
Even if you're, like atThanksgiving dinner, you could
just like pull out your phoneand be like what do I do?
My, my mom's driving me crazy?
Um, and then you get the helpright right away.
So you could check out ourwebsite.
Cool of mine.
K?
U L A M I N?
Dcom.
Um.
But we'll also leave some linksin the show notes where you can
(02:23):
just go and we'll have a 30minute free consultation call
where you could just vent at mefor like 30 minutes about your
life and your family and wecould talk about how KulaMind
can support you best.
So amazing.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Well, I know that I'm spending Thanksgiving with my
in-laws and then Christmas andNew Year's with my family.
What are you anticipating foryour holiday season, Kibbe?
Speaker 2 (02:49):
I think it's like the anticipation, as you just said.
The anticipation to theholidays is like sometimes worse
than the actual holiday itself.
I am having a lot of peopleover to my house for
Thanksgiving making dinner.
We have my in-laws here, mystepmom, I have siblings and
then I invited my mom, but thatis a fraught relationship right
(03:16):
now.
So I'm anticipating a fun day,but more like guilt, anger,
shame, sadness, grief, all ofthe emotions around it.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
So it's great it's holidays right Guilt, anger and
shame as your Christmas presents.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Your birthday is snuck in there too, oh yeah,
yeah, I'm a Christmas babyDecember 22nd so it's like a
couple of days where everyoneflies to somewhere else on my
birthday.
So I'm like yeah, yeah, becauseeveryone gets like the travel
deals on the 22nd.
So I say goodbye to all thepeople that I love and then I'm
left alone with whateverChristmas blockbuster movie is
(03:54):
out, you know.
So I watch like a Marvel moviewith like the one or two people
around here, you know, and thencry.
I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
I hear that it is kind of accurate.
I feel like the 22nd is alsothe day that I would most likely
travel to christmas.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
What are you traveling?
Speaker 1 (04:15):
I'm going well.
I only have thanksgiving dayoff.
I had to take friday off, butI'm going to to North Carolina
to hang with my in-laws, jason'sfamily, while the rest of my
family goes to Mexico at thisresort that we've had a time
share out forever.
So everyone else is going tospend Thanksgiving in Mexico and
(04:38):
I will be in North Carolina,but it's fine.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Great, I mean, that sounds nice.
What kind of of, what kind ofthings do you navigate?
What kind of dynamics do younavigate during the holidays?
Speaker 1 (04:54):
I mean with my in-laws, it's going to be fine.
Um, you know there'll be some.
I think last time I broke downcrying, actually, yeah, because
I have spent.
I haven't spent Thanksgivingwith my parents in three years,
probably because they were allin Mexico three years in a row
or something.
I don't even remember.
But I think I got upset becauseI'm in a relationship with
(05:17):
somebody who has a kid and soit's really hard to get him to
spend holidays with my familyfamily, because that means
taking his kid away from, like,his family.
And I just had this projectionof like are we ever going to be
able to spend holidays with myfamily?
Are we always going to be splitup?
So I cried about that, but this, yeah.
(05:39):
So this year I'm with him forThanksgiving, I'm with my
parents, my family, forChristmas, then Jason will come
for New Year's.
That's what we've done.
My holidays with my family areinteresting.
I mean, I'm close with myfamily.
I super love my family.
I wouldn't say the dynamic issuper easy.
I always look forward to theholidays and then, once I'm
(06:03):
there, I always have this likecrazy physical anxiety and I
just I'm.
I'm like always going to myhappy place, which is just like
breathing and shutting down myemotions and flipping through a
cookbook.
Just shut down.
(06:25):
All the like frenetic, anxiousenergy from my mother and from
my parents bickering, um, youknow my niece and nephew like
screaming and waking me up atsix in the morning.
Uh, the biggest thing isprobably that you know my
sister's an alcoholic and everytime the family's together, it's
traditionally been a bigtrigger for her.
A variety of reasons that haveto do with her.
Um, and we just like constantlyhave to be on guard for that.
(06:51):
Do we drink?
Don't we drink?
Why is she in the basement.
So long, you know, is sheacting a little bit strange.
Is that alcohol?
Or is that just she's, you know, hyped up on the holidays or
just you know she's kind ofmanic energy in general, so a
(07:11):
lot of that you know she doesdrink.
Then it's very much like she'sprobably gonna say something
shitty to me.
Um like what?
There was one holiday wherenikki wanted to bring her
ex-boyfriend and he in my mindhad been behaving emotionally
abusively and also his energyreminded me of my ex and brought
(07:33):
back just a lot of liketriggery kind of feelings.
And you know my family was notready to welcome him back with
open arms and so we put amoratorium on him coming on
Christmas day.
We're like he can come the nextday and anyways, nikki, just I
could hear her talking on thephone with my mom and she was
saying kind of shitty thingsabout Jason, not anything about
(07:57):
him personally, but just likewhy is Jason allowed to come?
And dah, dah, dah, dah.
He's not like part of thefamily yet, that kind of thing.
And then I heard her saysomething like you know what,
fine, I'll just drop off mychristmas presents at the door.
I know that's the only thingjacklyn cares about anyway.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
I was like come on, thank you.
That's great.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
That'd be much easier I mean I do love presents, but
can we move on from this versionof me as like an entitled,
selfish 10 year old who justwants the goodies?
I mean, it was just, you know,she'll just say things that she
that indicate that she hascertain beliefs about me or that
(08:38):
she knows will get under myskin.
And we, just when she said that, I just like took the phone,
put her on speakerphone and juststarted like screaming at her.
And it was funny because I wasactually screaming nice things
and I'm like this is because Ilove you, nikki, I don't want to
see you.
When somebody doesn't treat youwell, what do you get?
It was just like crazy and thatactually didn't calm her down.
(08:58):
Uh, but yeah, I mean it'll justbe like little digs and just
people comment on my lifechoices who are more mature and
(09:28):
older than me and wiser, um, andkind of take me back to feeling
like a child, um, so I don'tknow that stuff is that, stuff
is there.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
I think I do remember when you had that holiday you
were texting me and it just isso emblematic of all the things
that could be stressful aboutthe holidays.
It's like we regress.
You know we're forced to be notforced, but we, you know, come
together with family membersthat we spend all of our time
(10:03):
individuating from, likebuilding life outside of, and
then when we come together, Ifeel like all my teenager self
comes out and we are who we like, our worst selves, you know,
like my 13 year old self aroundmy mom when you get together,
but then it's like for such anintense period of time that it's
(10:24):
such high expectation for goingwell, right, like.
This is what I hate about.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
like Valentine's Day or Father's Day or all those
Hallmark holidays where you'rejust inundated with ads that are
like it's time to enjoy, andthen everyone's like opening
presents or eating food andenjoying each other, and then
it's just like we regress in asituation where it's supposed to
be nice and picture perfect andthen you have all of our coping
(10:48):
mechanisms right, like eitherhaving your friends or family or
you know friends are likecoping mechanisms that's
supposed to keep you sane, butif your family doesn't want,
like your support, buddy, thatyou know it's just like it's so
much in such a short period oftime yeah yeah, I think another
thing that was always unique tomy holiday experience was being
(11:09):
the youngest by such a largemargin where, you know, when I
was still like an early teenager, my siblings were like my
sister was in residency, sheoften couldn't come for
Christmas, like my brotherswould bring home a girl or she'd
bring home a guy and I'd haveto watch the Christmas change
(11:30):
and not have the same traditionsand still be like really
wanting that and um, now I'mtotally used to it and it's fine
, but I've definitely had to letgo of like what Christmas is
supposed to look like and sortof not have they just not be
disappointed when certaintraditions don't happen, not be
upset if Christmas doesn't evenhappen on Christmas day, because
(11:50):
all of my siblings are managingChristmases with their spouses
and and I think that can also beharder for I mean, another part
of this was like then when Igot older, feeling very lonely
because I didn't have a partnerand all of my siblings were
partnered up and I'd be, youknow, the one like doing the
dishes well, because everybodyelse was like a guest or with
(12:10):
their guest.
And now it's a different dynamic.
But I think what my sister'sgoing through is she's the
oldest and she's divorced andlost custody of her kids and so
she has to like look at allshe's lost every time we're
together and I think that's whyit's super triggering for her
over the holidays.
And so, yeah, I think thatthose of us who have gone
(12:32):
through like divorces or aresingle over the holidays and the
rest of our family is partneredor happy or has kids, and if
you're going through likefertility struggles, you know
it's really painful to probablybe around your nieces and
nephews.
There's just a lot that can comeup for people.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Yeah, there's a lot of grief and what you have
missing in that picture perfectlife.
Like I know that it's like ananniversary, it's around.
My dad's birthday was December29th and so like that, and you
know, everyone having theirfamily around is like there's
always like this undercurrent ofgrief and there's no room for
that.
There's no like you know, noone on Christmas wants to hear
(13:12):
like, oh, I wish my dead dadwere here.
You know, like it's just, it'snot a time for, it's a time for,
like shoveling everything down,being with the people who bring
up all of your demons and thenpretending, you don't have any
demons.
People who bring up all of yourdemons and then pretending you
don't have any demons and youdon't have any of the coping
mechanisms that you spent anentire adulthood like building
away from them.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
So it's just like perfect storm yeah, I it's.
Wow, you have some.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
You have a complicated december yeah, I
guess I do where dates lie.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
So what is, what is your plan for your mom this
Christmas?
Speaker 2 (13:47):
I'm just having a hard time with, like her mom
passed away recently and her momwas like the focal point of her
pain, kind of like this distant, emotionally absent,
self-absorbed mom who didn't payattention to her in the way
that she needed and that reallyhaunted her throughout all of
throughout her marriage,throughout parenting me and now
(14:09):
with my son, and for like cancerrecovery and different reasons
I was, I tried to ask for, Imean, what came across as like a
boundary or a limit to be like,can you play with Jackson here
at my house instead of at yourhouse?
And I just kind of likerequested for some changes in
(14:32):
what she wanted.
And in that conversation sheinterpreted some of what I said
as like attacking her and shegot really upset and I tried to
clarify what I meant by that.
I clarified that I'm notattacking her.
She, you know, misinterpretedwhat I was saying and ever since
(14:53):
then, I mean it's just been anightmare Like like she keeps
asking to, you know, take him todo other things.
I keep saying no and I did thething that I told patients to do
.
I you know all the good thingswhere I'm like I asked for what
I need and then, like try toreinforce it.
I'm like we love you so much.
I you know, like it would begreat.
I really value yourrelationship with my son.
(15:16):
Why don't you have a specialday once a week here at my house
?
You could do whatever you wanthere.
It'll be your special day.
It'll be amazing, whatever.
No, nothing works, just nothingworks.
It's just.
I think what is most upsettingis that she leans in with like
deep insults, like characterattack with me.
(15:39):
She does oh my god, man, it'sjust like.
It's not just I'm pissed offthat you won't let me do what I
want to do with my grandson.
It's now I know who you reallyare.
Now I know what kind of personyou are.
How could you banish me likethis?
How could you be so heartless?
Everyone is turning you againstme, alex is turning you against
me, and we've had to haveseveral emails and text messages
(16:02):
where we're like no, we loveyou.
No one's against you.
We're just asking if you could.
No, it's just even just likethat little rejection, that
little boundary is like thischaracter.
We don't love her, we'rekicking her out of our lives.
And it's just so frustratingbecause it's interesting, I'm
watching Alex have the sameimpulse that I've always had,
(16:22):
but I've always learned to justlike suppress, which is, if I
show her the evidence, if I likescreenshot what I said, show
her the million times we said Ilove you, please come over with.
Then she'll be like oh gosh,you're right, I'm just this.
These holidays are just reallyhard for me.
I'm just, I feel really sad.
(16:42):
I just want to connect orwhatever, and then we'll all hug
and be like it's okay, I loveyou.
You know that fantasy of usingreason and logic is still there
and it just, it's just a fantasyand it's just like so
validating to watch someone elsehave that same impulse and I'm
just like, oh man, that's,that's what I have inside all
(17:05):
the time.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Yeah, yeah, well, that would.
That would maybe normally workwith other people to show
evidence.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
It would.
What drives me crazy, and droveme like literally crazy in so
many parts of my life, is herperception of the situation cut
out.
All the things that she does tome, like all of the insults,
all the things that she says,all the ways that she's hurt me,
are literally like gone in hermind.
It's really weird.
Like I could show herscreenshots of her own I could.
(17:36):
I used to show her likevoicemails that she used to
leave, like telling me I'm likea horrible child.
How could she give birth to me?
She hates me, she never wantsto see me again and and I'll
like play it for her and she'llbe like no well you made me say
that and it just is like itdoesn't register as part of the
interaction.
Therefore, in her mind, I'm justdoing all the cutting out,
(18:01):
boundary, setting away and sheonly just like loves yes, I
don't know like even justtalking about it, I bet, I bet.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Well, it's an interesting entitlement to just
be able to emote at somebody and, just like, express your
emotions however you want atthem, and then they are supposed
to accept and not push you away.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
You know that, like your actions have no
consequences, I think it'sclicking in a new way now
because I'm watching mytwo-year-old do it and it makes
so much sense because he justdoesn't.
He's just a ball of emotion,doesn't get agency or that, he's
another person.
So he'll like, he'll tantrumand do this and and then we'll
have to take off like wipe hisface, we'll have to do something
to manage the tantrum, and thenhe's like tantruming about that
(18:49):
.
I'm like, dude, you're notgetting TV because you're
tantruming, like do you not seethe consequences of your actions
?
But it's, yeah, it's just likea lonely, lonely feeling because
like, like, I have to hold bothsides.
I have to be like, sure, I saidsomething that hurt your
feelings and then you screamedat me forever and I have to hold
(19:12):
both of that and you just holdone of it.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Yeah, that brings up another kind of thing that I
think can be difficult duringthe holidays, which is that if
you go to in-laws house and youhave your little kid, the your
in-laws may parent your kids incertain way.
They my sister-in-law and my momgot into this tiff because my
mother, like she set a boundarywith my niece that was
(19:39):
reasonable and he said my niecehad agreed to it.
And then, as kids do, that wasreasonable and he said my niece
had agreed to it.
And then, as kids too, my niecebroke the boundary.
We were basically supposed tohave an adult.
We were, we had a bunch of kidtime and then we were supposed
to have some adult time and myniece, like wanted that to still
be kid time, right.
And so my mom was, like shesaid kind of firmly, said no,
this is adult time.
(20:00):
And so my niece, like went andcried and my mom like let her
cry and my sister-in-lawcouldn't handle that, and so
they got into like a little bitof a tiff, um, and it's
interesting because if you're atsomebody else's house, like
grandparents have to have somesort of authority, especially if
you're in the grandparentshouse, and it's also hard to
like not be the only parent toyour kids.
(20:22):
I mean, besides you and your,you know your husband, um, who
you can scream at if you want to, and you can be more kind of
authentically, like pissy, thanlike with your, with your
in-laws.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
So how did that resolve?
Like, how do you guys resolvethat?
Speaker 1 (20:41):
uh, I think with a brief cold war Great.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Cool, yeah, it seems like the tip is stuff down your
emotions.
Yes, distract yourself, getthrough and then hide the way
you're feeling from your lovedones for all the time.
I think that's.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
It's interesting because every time I go home
that is what I'll do, kind ofwith my siblings, I think, and
then my mom.
Our holidays are booze festsfirst of all.
So I'll be on like my 18thdrink or something that's an
exaggeration sort of, but likewith my parents downstairs in
the living room after everyonehas gone and just like
(21:23):
debriefing about everything.
And there'll often be tears,usually my mother's um, not
because I'm being mean to her,but because we're talking about
just like family dynamics andwhere things go wrong.
And we'll have these debriefsoften about my sister, like
every single night for theholiday season where I'm just
like ruminating at her, um, butyeah, I just it does feel hard
(21:51):
not to just suppress the wholetime, because you know it's time
limited and so it's like okay,if I can just like breathe and
just push this down and keepgoing, then we don't have to do
this again until Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Yeah, I mean, I think , I think that this might be one
of those circumstances whereall the things that we talk
about are bad, like distraction,suppression, hiding your
feelings, not communicating.
This might be a time where,like it's actually effective
because it's short term, right,that's like, ideally,
(22:30):
thanksgiving, you know Christmaslike these are all.
Like certain days you go travel.
That's also horrible andexpensive and stressful.
You're staying somewhere else,kid, you know, kids just make
that even worse and then youjust have to get through.
Right, you just get through,don't like, don't make the
situation worse, distresstolerance skills all the way.
(22:52):
And then when you come backhome, then you could like lean
into, go to therapy, get coolmind, lean into your feelings
and then, yeah, I mean, at leastI'm tempted to use the holidays
as the time to talk about allthe things and why we're like
this and whatever.
But that might not be the timebecause there's no, you can't
(23:14):
follow up after that, you can'tactually implement that on a
daily basis if you're not seeingthese people.
So, just eggnog, apple pie,booze, like, whatever you know,
alcohol use around the holidaysdoes go up.
We were looking at what, whatthe research says about what
happens around the holidays interms of mental health and I I
(23:37):
don't know if you're seeing thisnow, but as therapists we see
everyone's dressed out now.
Therapy is just just feels alot heavier.
People are like suddenly oldghosts are emerging and there
was this systematic review thatwe found in Frontiers of
Psychiatry.
We're wondering if Christmas orthe holidays leads to like more
(23:57):
hospitalizations and suicideand emergencies.
But actually not AroundChristmas and New Year's is
actually the lowest,surprisingly, probably because
they're around people and thenactually there's a bounce back
where in January, that's whenthere's an increase in suicides
and hospitalizations, so it'swhen people go home and then sit
(24:18):
with all their lonely feelings.
Right right, that's the problem.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Yeah, I mean I would think the holidays would be hard
for people who don't havefamily, but that might be a
relatively smaller portion ofthe population that's not
getting picked up by these,these data.
It's interesting because we'resaying like okay, when is it
appropriate to suppress over theholidays and when is it not?
And I think the real questionis, when is it effective to
(24:46):
introduce conflict, to haveconflict with family members,
versus just getting through it?
I don't know that we need to besuppressing our emotions the
whole time.
I would probably suggestcarving out some breaks where
you can be with yourself,decompress a little bit.
Where you can be with yourself,decompress a little bit, you
(25:10):
know, just talk to other friends.
If you need to get kind of asanity check by by, I think
connecting with other friendsduring this time can be helpful,
because if you are regressingwhile you're at home, you can
become, you can inhabit youradult body again once you
interact with people who you arean adult around.
Yeah, so that's possible, um,but yeah it it's interesting
(25:34):
that january comes and suddenlyI I don't know what it is.
I mean it could be as simple asnow.
I have this long stretch ofmonths with like no holidays and
that means I have to just workand it's cold and seasonal
depression hits.
Yeah, or if it's actuallyrelated to the holiday and
what's stirred up then, mm, hmm.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Yeah, I mean, I bet that's a perfect storm, right
it's.
You go see all your family sitwith all the people who created
your, all your negative corebeliefs and inner critic, and
then you don't have money andthen it's the darkest time of
year and it's cold and you'realone and there's I hate, I hate
the like post New Year's Evetime, because that stretch from,
(26:17):
at least in New York, januaryto like March.
It's just you're done with thecozy winter stuff, like there's
no more hot chocolate.
There's just like sad slushingthrough gray snow in the dark,
going to work.
No one wants to go out.
I think there's like there's nolike holiday or social
gathering that brings peopletogether.
(26:38):
Everyone just wants to stay intheir house and mope and yeah,
so it's just like the mostbummer time.
And for people who've had likemental health issues, going to
see their family or beingreminded they don't have family
and then left with all that it'sjust I would think that's the
perfect storm.
I would think that's like thehardest time.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
I agree.
I usually try to plan a trip inJanuary or February to have
something to look forward to.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
That's so smart.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
M in January or February to have something to
look forward to, that's so smart.
Maintain the momentum Summertropical that's so smart,
actually, I might just do that.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
I might actually just like take that tip and just do
that.
Thank you, Dr Jackman.
Yeah, you're welcome.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
It's kind of a privileged tip, though I don't
know if everybody has the moneyto just yeah, yeah spend more
money.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
It's supposed to do more travel and don't work.
Got it.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Got it.
Do you want to?
Speaker 2 (27:27):
go on a trip.
Actually, Do you want to dothat?
Do you want to do like a girls?
Speaker 1 (27:30):
weekend somewhere, very possible.
Yeah, depending on PTO.
I mean, I could do a shortthing.
I don't think Jason's going totake me to Belize, or let me
take him to Belize, jason takeme to Belize.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Little helpers encourage Jason to bring
Jacqueline to Belize.
That's like a thing that shewants in her relationship.
So let's all support Jacqueline.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
His Instagram handle is at mammothhammer.
If you write to him there andtell him you're looking for a
real estate photographer andwhen he responds, say take
Jacqueline to Belize and we canhave a whole.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Yeah, give him hope that he has a job and then
confront him with thisrelationship.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Yeah, take it away.
It's a really hard season rightnow too, so he'll definitely
respond.
No, please, actually, what is?
Speaker 2 (28:18):
what is it like?
You know, the blended familiesthing is interesting, especially
because, like, you're datingsomeone with a child.
What is it like to have tosplit your holidays and then do
a holiday with, like, a familythat you're getting to know and
like you're integrating with?
Speaker 1 (28:34):
yeah, I mean the first time we did it was
actually really fun.
Um, I hate to say it, butprobably because everybody got
drunk and it was my first timelike really meeting them and we
just, I don't know, everyone waslike goofy and fun.
Jason, I made out hardcore onthe couch in front of everybody
and his mother had to talk tohim about that and how
inappropriate it was.
So that's quite a firstimpression.
(28:56):
It's so funny.
I'm so gross with PDA, so gross.
Anyways, the second holiday wasdry because one of the members
of his family was strugglingwith alcoholism and that was a
little bit more awkward.
I mean, I was just sort ofsitting quietly a lot of the
(29:17):
time.
Oh yeah, I cried also becauseJason, jason and I, the thing,
we fight about two things andtwo things only.
We talk, we fight about howwe're not going to Belize and
decorating, and we had gotteninto some very small tiff where
(29:39):
Jason indicated that he wouldnot let me incorporate any of my
furniture into the home when wemoved in together, which
actually is the case and he saidI mean, it's just a completely
absurd position, you know, andhe and he knows that.
But he said it and I was justlike, ok, I can't just fight
with him right now, like we'reat Thanksgiving, so I just get
(30:01):
really stony silent, fight withhim right now, like we're at
thanksgiving, so I just getreally stony, silent.
And then he did the right thingand came to me later and was
like I'm sorry, that was.
You know, I, I can't just havemy way all the time.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Or something like that.
How do you explain that hecouldn't have just said hey, you
can't put any of the furniturein our house I was talking about
moving my stuff in and he waslike oh no, no, we don't need to
change anything.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
It was, it was some comment that indicated that he
didn't think it was true that Iwas helping to decorate our home
.
He's like but it looks so niceas it is.
I see, I don't know exactlywhat it was, but because he's so
nice when he says things thatyou, so imagine being like you
know yeah, gross furniture.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
I'm sure it was like.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
I love you.
Sometimes he'll say somethingthat's so absurd and I'm like,
why can't you see that it'scompletely absurd?
And then I'll try logickingwith him and he's just like nope
.
So anyways, that's just lifewith a stubborn person.
But, um okay, tips, tips, tips,tips suppression.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
We've got that one, yeah drinking uh go on a travel
vacation in january yeah, yeah,definitely.
It seems like using cope ahead,knowing that january is the
hardest month for mental health,and plan some sort of social
gathering.
For example, with our friendNed, we are watching Aliens and
(31:30):
the Predator series, and thenthey merge to Alien versus
Predators.
So we have to watch all themovies in sequence, so that will
carry us through some of thewinter, and so you do that.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Yeah, I mean the ones that are feasible and like you
know, yeah, I think theprinciple and I was on the same
wavelength is like holidaysdon't have to end at New Year's
Eve.
You know you can create somesort of friend's holiday or some
tradition, anything to keep themomentum going during those
dark winter months.
And honestly, like I do loveValentine's day.
(32:07):
I think partly for this reasonit does give me something to
look forward to, something toplan for, and I I really go all
in with it and I think that'shelpful.
But I think coping ahead is agood strategy, checking in on
each other during that month,knowing that it is the hardest
month for mental health, youknow, being more proactive, like
(32:29):
I think one of the reasonsseasonal depression is a thing
is because people do stay in anddo nothing for three or four
months.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Yeah, all the gyms and the fitness companies out
there have crazy deals inJanuary, because I know that's
the time and like take advantageof them, because at least it
gives you something to the thenews resolution.
As silly as it is sometimes,like use that as a boost and go
go exercise.
That's like the number onething for mental health yeah, go
(32:55):
exercise.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Let's keep doing fun stuff.
I would.
I think one thing that could behelpful is, for Christmas,
maybe getting people.
I mean, this is maybe somethingto get like a partner or like
somebody you're willing to spenda lot of money on, or getting
yourself some kind of membershiplike a pottery class like
pottery classes or somethingthat's going to force you out of
(33:16):
the house every week for awhile.
It's like art classes or gymclasses or you know, just like
something, something to get youout to look forward to and, I
think, coping ahead for theholiday with, like, okay, you
know, is this, what are yourvalues telling you?
Is this a time you want to haveconflict with family who have
political disagreements or somekind of disagreements?
(33:37):
Like, is it worth it?
Are you avoiding conflict justbecause you avoid conflict or
because it's maybe not supernecessary to to handle shit at
that time, knowing that also,holidays are a group effort and
sometimes having conflict withanother member of the family can
be a real downer for everybodyelse, and so managing that, I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
it feels weird to be like people please and suppress,
but it's only a few days, yeah,I mean, I I talked to one of my
friends who was struggling with, like you know, we're going
down with our whole family, with, like, our kids, and it will
make our parents really happy ifwe stay with them and that will
kind of reduce some conflict.
But at the same time, we'regoing to go nuts.
(34:18):
You know, living there, and soI was really pushing on.
You know, just get an Airbnb,just get a hotel if you could
afford it, or stay with a friend.
There might be these small waysthat can be like taking the hit
for the long-term gain, right.
Like, maybe take some time toyourself or make sure that you
(34:38):
have a little bit of space, thatyou can go and have your own
space.
You could do your own thing.
You could do your own thing.
You would have an activity orsomething to do.
You know, a dinner with afriend If you're going home for
the holidays, something thatgives you that, that release
valve, so that, yeah, sure, yourparents might be kind of upset
about that, but at the same timethat will prevent a huge
(34:59):
blowout.
And you kind of you knowreaching your limit, then take a
huge blowout.
And you kind of you knowreaching your limit, then take
those little like self-care tips.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
you know, yeah, my parents are good in like
allowing us, allowing us to havedate nights with our partners
during that time too.
Where it's like, okay, I justneed to reconnect with my safe
person and not be around theentire family right now.
It sounds like such a bummer,though I mean, there are things
to love about the holidays too,and maybe like leaning into that
(35:27):
is also helpful, instead ofjust trying to get away from the
difficulties.
Sure, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
This is still kind of more of the negative side, but
I guess one thing you can leaninto is that if you are bummed
out in January, I think thatsometimes it's nice for me to
look at how much, how far I'vecome from what I used to be
interacting with my family and Icould see all the things that
come up in me, like the anger,the impulsivity, the need to
(36:00):
fight, the need to be right.
And then I look at now and Ilook at all the anger and the
impulsivity no need to fight,the need to be right and then I
look at now and I look at allthe anger and the impulsivity.
No, I'm kidding, I've come along way.
I've found a partner that Ilove, made a family that I'm
really happy.
I've grown up a lot, andsometimes the regression's kind
of nice because in the momentit's horrible, but then you
(36:21):
could remind yourself, wow, I'm.
I'm a different person than Iused to be around these people
and I'm going to have three dayswhere I'm like my worst teenage
self but actually I can go backto my home and just be grateful
that I've.
You know, I've grown since thenand if you haven't, then like
maybe that could give you a tipof what you need to change.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
I agree, I think, and also remembering how many like
lonely holidays I had, you know,I would always back then try to
remind myself someday I'm goingto be partnered forever and I
will never get to be alone again, and so it doesn't have to be a
bad thing to be lonely in theholidays.
I mean, I know it's hard and Iknow when you are lonely it's
(37:02):
it's hard to believe that you'llever not be lonely.
Um, I think getting likeleaning really into the holiday
can be kind of helpful.
I mean, once over Thanksgivingwe had my brother has a potato
chip company and we had thisstupid idea because we were
(37:24):
drinking of making a home videoof like a wedding of a
commercial for the chip companybasically, and I wound up like
running through pluff mud in themarsh and wearing like trash
bags and tool or something as afake wedding dress and it was
really fun and it really tookaway the anxiety of the day
(37:45):
because everybody had a project,everybody was leaning into the
spontaneity of it, um, and itwas just something different to
do I think I'm gonna link thatvideo to the show notes as a
resource and then not explainwhat that is you have to listen
to this like no, because thatwas such a funny video.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
I remember seeing you'd be like what is happening.
How is this about potato?
Speaker 1 (38:07):
chips.
I was brave enough to post thatat the height of my bachelor
fame too, so, but yeah, it wassuch a, it was such a great
memory, you know.
I mean my sister and I weren'tfighting because she was making
me a wedding dress instead, likeit was.
It was such a, it was such agreat memory, you know.
I mean my sister and I weren'tfighting because she was making
(38:29):
me a wedding dress instead, Likeit was.
It was just about she waspouring me drinks instead of
drinking them herself.
She was like you're gonna havefun with this.
Doing a unique Thanksgiving.
Like I think Thanksgiving canbe kind of drab because you're
cooking the same thing everytime, but one year we did an
Asian Thanksgiving where it wasjust like you know Asian
influences and all of the youknow appetizers and the turkey,
(38:51):
and just shaking it up, doingsomething new, creating new,
like keeping traditions, butalso maybe developing some new
ideas.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
Yeah, I like that, yeah, I'm looking forward to
Thanksgiving because it's like Igo full like pajama.
You know, just like eating,like eating a ton of food,
inviting whoever's around, andthen just like watching movies,
like you know so muchpreparation, and then you eat it
for like 10 minutes and thencouch time, so it's.
It's fun in its own way, like Ilove, just like falling asleep
(39:23):
on the couch, that's.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
Yeah.
And I would say you know, ifyour traditions are make you
happy reliably, then amazing.
One thing that kind of upset meas I was growing up is that the
traditions would change and youknow, we used to have like a
gingerbread.
There was a graham crackerbuilding contest, um, grandkid
house building contest, girlsversus boys.
And those things fade in someyears, especially when kids come
(39:47):
into the picture.
Like it's not going to happen inthe same way and the holidays
might start to be about yournieces and nephews or your kids
and having some flexibilityaround the idea that, like it's
sometimes doing a traditionhalf-assed is more depressing
than just skipping it.
And so it's kind of like, okay,do we does this Christmas have
(40:08):
to look exactly like previousChristmases or can it be its own
and like can we find ways tomake this appropriate for who we
have here?
And you know, I don't know I've, I know I've had to just get
really flexible around what theholidays looked like.
I used to be so nostalgic forChristmas and I wanted it to be
like little women every year andwasn't.
(40:28):
But you know, and I'd like holdon to what they were like when
I was a kid.
But I was a kid back thenthat's why they were magical,
and so I guess releasing someexpectations for the holidays
looking a particular way can behelpful.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Yeah, and I guess releasing some expectations for
the holidays, looking aparticular way, can be helpful.
Yeah, and even, just like Ilike what you're saying,
creating new traditions andcreating new traditions for the
young people too.
Like now, you're making methink, like, what kind of family
tradition do I want Jackson togrow up with?
Like, what do I want him toassociate?
And we could create whatever wewant you know, so we can play a
game or do something cool.
And I'm trying to, we're tryingto figure out how to familiarize
him with both, like hischristian background, but also
(41:07):
his jewish background.
Like you know, we could do likea series of presents for
hanukkah and then, you know,christmas.
So, yeah, there's a lot of liketradition building that could
happen.
And now, actually, you'remaking me think that we should
incorporate this into the coolmind community where we I'm just
thinking about how I want tohear all the little helpers and
what they're doing for theirtraditions, that they're looking
forward to, but also buildingin some group support during the
(41:30):
hard times, either just to ventabout the family, the, the
holidays, or to do like somekind of group event around
january, just so it's somethingthat you do from your home but
still feel connected, even whenit's like so gross outside.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
Well, little helpers, I hope you have happy holidays
instead of lonely or stressfulholidays.
I'm guessing it's a little bitof a combo, but we will be here
for you again in two weeks.
One thing that I think would beactually a tip for everybody is
to start the new tradition ofgiving us five star ratings on
(42:07):
apple podcast and spotifywhenever you can.
It's kind of like christmascaring you know, and paying it
forward.
Yeah, paying it forward.
Gift give it right giving us agift, giving it, as my said, all
I care about are the presents.
So we'll be looking forward tothose gifts from you and we'll
(42:27):
see you in two weeks.
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(42:47):
at your own risk.
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(43:08):
treatment of a duly licensed andqualified healthcare provider.
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