Rock Bottom Has a Basement: From Breakdown to Breakthrough with Kevin Palmieri

Episode Transcript
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Kevin Palmeri (00:00):
So when I was 25, by all outside standards I had
everything you could possiblywant.
I had a six-figure job, mygirlfriend at the time was a
model, I had a nice car, I had anew apartment, I had great
friends and things just wentfrom what seemed like really
good to really bad very quickly.
I didn't really understand mycore values.
I didn't really understand mycore beliefs.

(00:22):
So I assumed, if I just go makeall the money, the rest of the
problems will just kind of fadeaway.
And we got to the end of theyear I made $100,000 at 26, with
no college degree.
But I felt exactly the same.
I had more money in my bankaccount, but I didn't have any
more self-worth.
I didn't have any moreself-belief.
I didn't have any moreconfidence.

(00:43):
I just didn't have any moreself-belief.
I didn't have any moreconfidence.
I just didn't change.

Brian (Mr.KillerB) (00:45):
Welcome to the New Horizons podcast.
I'm Brian Curee.

Shawna (Mrs.KillerBee) (00:49):
And I'm Shauna Curee, also known as Mr
and Mrs Killer B, in virtualreality.

So this podcast is recorded live from
the metaverse at the Killer Bstudios.

Where real life stories and
experiences are shared in a wayonly the metaverse can offer.

With that, let's go ahead and dive in to
today's episode.
Hey everybody, welcome to theKiller Bee Studios.
Let's throw some confetti overthere.
Some confetti over here.
Watch out, good soldier.
Hey, we thank you guys all forcoming out and joining us at the
Killer Bee Studios.
Our topic tonight with Kevin isgoing to be about.
You know, some people find rockbottom.

(01:25):
This is something that Kevinwas talking to me about.
So Kevin is part of a groupcalled Podmatch which is
connected to other guests and ifyou run a podcast, check it out
.
It's a very cool platform.
But I met Kevin on there aboutbeing.
I saw, I think, somebodyreached out to me from his team.
I was like man, this guy's gota very interesting story.
And I saw, I think, somebodyreached out to me from his team.

(01:47):
I was like man, this guy's gota very interesting story.
I'd like to bring him on.
And I got him and I got himsuckered into stepping in the
metaverse.

You know that's going to be tricky
sometimes.

It can be tricky sometimes, but he's like
I'm coming, I'm coming, but he'sgoing to come talk about he's
going to have you ever hit rockbottom before?
Anybody here can relate to that?
Yeah, and I think a lot of uscan, and if we can't, we
probably know someone that can,especially when we look at

(02:15):
social media.
Mrs Killer Bee, social media isreally good.
It does a great job at theillusion that everything is
amazing on the outside that'swhat it seems like, but on the
inside there's a lot of chaos.
Can you guys relate to that?
You guys think you guys canrelate to that?
Yeah, I could definitely seethat.
And, mrs Killer Bee, I know youand me have talked about this

(02:37):
before, maybe even here manytimes, and a lot of people.
We tend to think that if I justhad a little bit more of this,
a little bit more money, alittle bit of time, a little bit
more muscle, a little bit moreyou know, whatever you can fill
in that blank.
A lot of people think if theyhad just a little bit more
influence or followers, theywould be happier.

(02:57):
But we're learning more andmore that that doesn't really
equate to happiness.
Me and Mrs Killer B have beenreading this book right now, and
she's way far ahead than I am,but it's called the Gap and the
Gain.
Is that correct?
The Gap and the Gain?
Yep, do you know who theauthors are of that book?
You?

know what, I can't remember their
names.
I know it's two guys.
One of them is actually.
I could look it up real quickif you want, if you want me to,
because Let me guess probablyDan Sullivan and Dr Benjamin
Hardy.

Live Q&A Quest 1 (03:35):
Okay you so had that written down.

You tricked me, but yeah, they're the
authors of the book, but I thinkthat that will probably come
into our conversation with KevinI think so too yeah.
So if you guys hear usreference the Gap or the Gain,
you guys will know that we'retalking about this book.
So with that, are you guysready to bring out our guests?

(03:58):
All right, everybody.
Please welcome to the KillerBees stage.
Kevin, Kevin, and this is notKevin from Home Alone, but
that's what she was aiming forthat is what I was aiming for,
Kevin.

Welcome to the stage, hello.
Thank you so very much.
Thank you, thank you?

Yes, welcome, I'm so glad you're,
here tonight with us.

Kevin, I appreciate you having me.
Let's get some glitter up inthe sky for the wonderful host
here having this wonderful thingin this wonderful weird land
that we're in right now.

Exactly Weird land.
Oh, I love it.
I love it, Kevin, we're so gladthat you're here.
How did you do coping afteryour parents left you at
Christmas by yourself and youhad to go all that time by
yourself with those intrudersand stuff?

I grew up fast.
I had to grow up fast and Iexperienced cologne and
aftershave and some lightassault.
So it was quite a lesson for me.
And then, believe it or not,they actually left me again when
I was in New York.
It's just, I can't believe it.

I can't believe it.
What kind of parents are they?
Well not the good kindevidently Not the good kind.

Not the good kind.
Well, Kevin here I'm just goingto call him Kevin from now on.
Kevin, before we get started,would you take about 30 minutes
and just kind of- 30 seconds, hemeans.
Oh, 30 seconds.

If you give me 30 minutes.

I'll take it .
Yeah, exactly, We'll give you30 minutes.
We'll be back in a little bit.
We'll give you 30 seconds.
Talk about 30 seconds.
Just share a little bit aboutwho you are.

Sure.
So today I am the founder andthe host of Next Level
University.
We are a global top 100 podcast.
We recorded our 1994th episodetoday and I've been a full-time
yes, yes, I appreciate thank youso much, and I've been a
full-time podcaster since 2018and it's very strange how, at

(05:57):
one point, this was all just adream and now I kind of get to
live my dream every day and Idon't ever want to take that for
granted, that's beautiful.

Wow, how many episodes did you say?

now, uh, 1994, and as of today, in this I've
had the pleasure of being on 978other podcasts my goodness wow,
that's incredible do you have abig plan for your 2000 episode
I?
Don't know what we're gonna do,but we a big plan for your 2000

(06:27):
episode.
I don't know what we're goingto do, but we'll do something
for the celebration, for sure,if anybody has any ideas.
Please let me know what a goodcelebration would be.

I have a good idea Awesome Party like
it's 1999.
That's my idea.
What?

Party like it's 1999.
You don't even know what thispodcast is about.
First You're just like I got anidea Party like it's 1990.
You don't even know what thispodcast is about first.

You're just like.
I got an idea.

I respect it, prince.
Theme Are you still awake?
Still awake.

I haven't seen a single yawn yet, so we're doing
good here.

Yeah, I mean, I feel like I'm rocking it
Totally.
Yeah, we're going to be fine,that's great.

That's great Partying like 1999.
All right, I graduated in 1999.

So it's like a life theme for me, you
know I respect it, gotcha.

Well, okay, before we get into your story,
Kevin, you want to.
Can you give us like a littlebit, tell us a little bit about
your podcast and how people cantune in.

Yeah, so our podcast is all about holistic
self-improvement.
So, as you'll hear in my story,there have been parts of my
life where I was really good atcertain aspects, but being good
at those aspects kind ofweakened the other areas.
So when we say holistic, wemean life, love, health and
wealth.
That is really our goal to helppeople level all of those up at
the same time, which is quitechallenging and very humbling.

(07:40):
We're trying to to get betterat all that at the same time.

You know, I know that you know we kind of
start off like, oh you know,funny and having fun.
But I know that our stories,each one of us, the studio here
is created because we knowthere's power in each of our
stories and that those storiescan help others, help others out
of a rut, help us keep movingforward.
And we've learned that we're alot more alike than maybe we
expected, even as these avatars.

(08:06):
So I wanted to talk to youabout if you, maybe you could
take us back.
Let's just kind of start takinga step back to that moment of
rock bottom.
When we talk, you're sharingwith me about how you hit rock
bottom and that you found outthat rock bottom had a basement.
That's where you found yourself.
So first, I guess, maybe talkto me about that like the

(08:26):
basement.
What do you mean by rock bottomhad a basement?

Yeah.
So when I was 25, by alloutside standards, I had
everything you could possiblywant.
I had a six-figure job, I wasgetting ready to compete in a
bodybuilding show, so I wasquite literally in the best
shape I will ever be in.
My girlfriend at the time was amodel.
I had a nice car, I had a newapartment, I had great friends
and if you were looking at mefrom the outside, looking in,

(08:52):
you would assume that I couldnot be unhappy in any way, shape
or form.
I was super insecure, I had noconfidence, I was filled with
self-doubt and one day mygirlfriend left me because I
wasn't a very supportive partner, because I was struggling to
support myself, never mind herwhen she left.
That was my initial rock bottom, because I'm questioning well,

(09:14):
who could ever love this brokenversion of me?
And I hope nobody has felt that?
But if you have, I empathizedeeply.
Money was getting tight becausemy bills just doubled and work
had slowed down.
I was dealing with a mildeating disorder after my
bodybuilding show and thingsjust went from what seemed like
really good to really bad veryquickly.
So that was my initial rockbottom and I didn't really

(09:37):
understand my core values.
I didn't really understand mycore beliefs.
So I assumed if I just go makeall the money, the rest of the
problems will just kind of fadeaway.
So that's what I, that's what Itried to do, and I heard you
talking about that a little bitwhen I was backstage.
So the next year I got apromotion at my job.
I proceeded to spend the next10 months living on the road,

(09:59):
traveling from state to state upand down the East coast doing
my job, and we got to the end ofthe year.
I made a hundred thousanddollars at 26, when no college
degree.
But I felt exactly the same.
I had more money in my bankaccount, but I didn't have any
more self-worth.
I didn't have any moreself-belief, I didn't have any
more confidence.
I just didn't change.

(10:20):
So in that moment I realizedthat for most of my life I had
lived unconsciously.
The opposite of unconscious ishyperconscious.
So I started a podcast calledthe Hyperconscious Podcast.
As any of you in here know, ifyou've started something new,
there's a new endeavor.
There's not exactly a line outthe door of people who want to
give you money to do your dreams.

(10:42):
I wish it was that way, but forme it was not.
That was not how it worked, soI had to keep going to this job
that I hated and I was gettingmore depressed and I was getting
more anxious and I was gettinghomesick before I left the house
and eventually it got to thepoint where I was in New Jersey
working.
I woke up, slid to the edge ofthe bed in this hotel room and

(11:04):
the best way to explain it wasthere was 10 televisions on in
my head at the same time andevery single one was on a
different station.
And one is saying you're stuckhere forever.
I was the guy who didn't go tocollege, who didn't have an
education, who wasn't supposedto be quote unquote successful,
so I never could imagine gettinganother opportunity like this.
So that was one voice.

(11:24):
The other voice was if you everdid leave here, what would your
friends say?
What would your family say?
And this was the loudest voice.
And if you've ever felt this inany way, shape or form again, I
have so much empathy for it.
Do you really think you'regoing to be a successful
podcaster?
That's what we're going to do.
We're going to leave this joband we're going to go all in on

(11:45):
a podcast Doesn't seem veryrealistic.
So it was that day that I foundout that rock bottom has a
basement.
I was sitting there thinking tomyself well, if I was just to
take my life, I would take allmy problems with me.
And here I am, six hours fromanybody who cares about me, in a
dark, crusty, dirty hotel room,thinking that, well, this, this

(12:09):
is going to be it.
Now, luckily, I had a reallyreally good friend who is now my
business partner and I'verecorded almost every single
episode with.
And I reached out to him and Isaid hey, man, I'm having these
dark thoughts, I'm having thesedark feelings, I don't know what
to do, I'm lost, I feelhopeless.
These dark thoughts, I'm havingthese dark feelings, I don't
know what to do, I'm lost, Ifeel hopeless.
And he said Kev, over the lastcouple of years your awareness

(12:31):
has changed a ton hyperconscious, but your environment kind of
stayed the same.
I think it's time for you tochange your environment.
So that was the kind of wake upcall that I needed, and I ended
up leaving my job two or threemonths later and then going full
time into what we're doingtoday.
And again, I was broke for acouple years trying to figure

(12:52):
this out.
I was $30,000 in credit carddebt, so I didn't go from there
to where we are.
There was a lot of ups, therewas a lot of downs.
There was more downs than therewere ups, but I think that for
many of us unfortunately, Idon't know why it's set up this
way, but I think for many of us,our purpose, our mission, is

(13:13):
hidden deep within the pain thatmaybe we haven't experienced
yet, or the pain that we'rerunning from.
So that rock bottom basementmoment was, yeah, sitting on the
edge of the bed saying I thinkI'd rather be gone than than
here.
But now that's something thathas allowed me to do what I do
today, with a new perspective, anew understanding, hopefully
more empathy and and a reallydeep, meaningful mind.

(13:36):
We do what we do that's good, Iappreciate it.

And all these different voices um, we've
talked about this a while backago about how, like we, we
started learning that we have aninner voice me and mrs killer b
.
She asked me once.
She said what is your, is yourinner voice?
Does it encourage you or doesit tear you down?
And I said but what is yoursdoing?
She said it, it encourages her.
I'm like, really, I was likemine is mine, tells me, tells me

(14:24):
, you're not gonna be able to dothis and it tears me down.
And we started realizing, justfrom our backgrounds, like where
we have different situations orexperiences had led us to hear
different inner voices forourselves.
I even had from mine.
I was like, ooh, I realizedthat when my inner voice had a
certain tone, that was fromsomebody that had hurt me and I

(14:47):
didn't really think about thatuntil I really started thinking
about this voice that was goingon.
Have you ever heard of thatbefore?
Do you relate?

to that at all.
Yeah, so we often say it's arecord.
We all have a record that playsinternally and it's either a
positive one and or a negativeone and, unfortunately for a lot
of us, we're able to trace ourresults and or lack of desired
results to our record.
Because very similar Mr Killerbeat.
Mine is I'm not good enough,I'm not smart enough, I'm not

(15:18):
tall enough and I'll never besuccessful.
That's that's mine.
My business partner is thecomplete opposite.
His is I can do anything I want.
I'm incredibly intelligent andanything I set my mind to and I
can, I can accomplish.
So it's been a very interestingthing working with somebody who
is the polar opposite of me,because what's normal for me is

(15:39):
not normal for him and what'snormal for him is not normal for
me.
So it's given me an opportunityto see what it's like on the
other side and honestly, that'sbeen a really big piece of this
journey and this growth for meis I've had somebody who has
pushed me and somebody who hasbeen there to support me and
I've essentially had a mentorthat has been here with me on
this journey since we startedand I can't speak enough to the

(16:00):
power of community and the rightpeople, and I think that's one
of the hardest things.
It's leveling up and getting towhere you want and getting
results or whatever it is allthe things that we all want,
whatever that means to us all.
Personally, it's hard enough,never mind if we don't have the
people in our lives who want topour into that, who want to
support that, who believe in us.
So, yeah, that's, that'ssomething we talk about often.

(16:23):
We all have an inner record andI think step one, sometimes the
hardest step, is identifyingwhat songs are playing, so we
can first identify.
Second, we can go over to therecord player and and take the
thing off so it stops playing,and then we can try to write a
new song and we can talk aboutthat today at some point, if you
like.
But, yes, definitely something.
Yeah, experience yeah I likethat.

That was actually what I was gonna ask.
Like I'm a big okay, so I'm abig vinyl record fan.
I have, I collect records, so Ican totally relate with what
you're saying here.
I collect, yeah, I'm uhobsessed, I guess I have a
problem I have a problem uh, but, uh, but I was gonna ask you
that was one of my questions waswell, do you think we can
change that record and what aresome of those steps that you

(17:08):
would encourage?
What would that look like?

smart enough.
Okay, there's three things thatwe need to do.
Three steps one state somethingto prove to yourself that
you're capable of doing it.
And then this is the big oneself-assign.
I was really good at baseballgrowing up.
All the all-star teams scoutedby baseball teams, all that
stuff.
The problem was I neverself-assigned that I was good,
so I never got the belief.
It never locked in, it neveraffected my identity.

(17:48):
So I think the best way toexplain it is, let's say, you're
afraid of public speaking.
As an example, I had a momentwhere I was backstage where I
was thinking to myself thiswould be an excellent practice
run for somebody who wants tospeak to an audience who doesn't
know how to do it in person.
Oh, that's so smart.
So let me state right.
So let me state tonight I'mgonna go and I'm gonna speak to

(18:09):
however many people are here inthis virtual world.
Cool, here I am, I'm doing it.
So now I'm proving to myselfthat I'm capable of doing that.
When I get off of here and Itake this headset off and I say
what just happened, I will thenself-assign.
Hopefully I did a good job.
Now next time I do it, I havemore recent and relevant proof

(18:30):
that proves the old record wrong.
Here's the weird thing aboutfear.
Here's the weird thing aboutlimiting beliefs.
I don't know why it's set upthis way.
I think the only way to gothrough fear is to go through
fear.
Yeah, but we don't have to faceour deepest fear the first time
.
Yeah, we can face a very, veryshallow fear, and then a little
bit more, and a little bit more,and a little bit more.

(18:51):
And the last thing I wantanybody to see is, or think is
this is how it's always been.
This is eight years of this.
Sure, this version of Kevin wasnot a year version of Kevin.
I was a completely differentperson.
It's just been a lot of what wecall fear chasing over and over
and over and over again, but inthe right amount, the right

(19:12):
dose.
So, yeah, state-proof,self-assigned.
That's something that helps aton for somebody who's trying to
work more on self-belief andremixing the record that's
playing, so to speak.

Oh, I love that leaf and re remixing
the record that's playing, so tospeak.
Oh, I love that.
So you probably heard Mr KillerBee mentioned the book that
we're reading, the Gap in theGame.
Did you hear him talk aboutthat?
Have you ever read it before?

I've never read it, but I've heard many things
about it.

There's so many things that you're
saying that really line up withwhat they're talking about, and
specifically about not judgingyourself against some ideal that
you've held out or that someoneelse has held out, but to judge
yourself against where you'vecome from.
And so really, especially yourexample about coming here to do

(19:59):
like public speaking you know,if someone was going to do that,
then when they take thatheadset off, they could look at
themselves and say, well, I'venever spoken before in front of,
let's say, 12 people, but now Idid and it went well.
And so if you look before, I'venever spoken in front of anyone.
Instead of you know, whatpeople tend to do is say I can't

(20:22):
speak in front of a thousandpeople because it's way beyond
me.
But if you judge yourselfcompared to what you've done in
the past, you can build yourconfidence slowly, like you said
, and it's so fascinating.
We kind of had a feeling likethe things that you would talk
about would really line up withthat, and I think it's beautiful
, because I think that so manypeople try to judge themselves

(20:47):
against this ideal that we werenever meant to reach in the
first place, so you always thinkyou're less than when really
you know, most people areprogressing all the time to
become closer to what they wantto be, but because they don't
get to that ideal, they alwaysthink less of themselves, right?

Yeah, and I think one of the other things that's
super hard is oftentimes thepeople that are giving us advice
are the people that have like13 out of 10 self-belief.
So they say take massive action, If your goals don't scare you,
they're not big enough.
That's not true.
Life is scary.
The last thing I want is mygoals to scare me and I'm not

(21:29):
going to go out.
We don't go after the thingsthat we fear.
We run away from the thingsthat we fear.
So that's another thing that wetalk about, that I would much
rather someone say look on ascale of zero to 10.
Right now I have a level twoself-belief, no judgment.
I appreciate the vulnerability.
Let's set a level three goal,not a level 10 goal.

I like that because level three goal, not a
level 10 goal.

Yeah, I like that , because a level 10 goal it's
not going to help.
It's not going to help, and Ithink one of the most common
misconceptions is where somebodyelse is today is where they've
been forever.
Where I am today is where I'mgoing to be forever, but we
weren't with that person for the10, 15, 20 year journey.
So, very much to your point, mrsKiller B.
I think we have to giveourselves room for growth, we

(22:13):
have to give ourselves time forgrowth, and when you start
growing I think it makes senseto do that.
But I think in the beginning weall want to get there fast.

And it's got to be sustainable.
Yes, it's like everybody expectsquick you know fast success.
Everything's going to happen.
If it's not happening quickly,something must be wrong.
But everybody that's made itsomewhere is going to tell you
there's a process you have to gothrough.
Very rarely is it just likeovernight success, and I like

(22:45):
that you said about the goalthree.
So instead of like, here's yourgoal, your ultimate goal, goal
10.
But you're going to say, hey,we're going to set some mile
milestones to get there, so thisis our goal number three, so
maybe we'll just leave it atnumbers like goal 10, goal 3.
So goal 10 is the ideal.
That's where you want to get.
Goal 3 is your goal, but youmight, you might go for it and

(23:05):
you might only hit goal 2, butinstead of beating yourself up
because you didn't make it togoal three, you celebrate that
you've made it this far.
And what can you learn?
And now keep moving forward,because I think that's where we
can fall into that unhappinessand where we start falling into
those danger zones ofsomething's not right.

(23:26):
You know, something's going on.
We're telling ourselves liesand we're tearing ourselves down
, while the outside world thinksthey're looking at us going.
Wow, Kevin, you really made itsince your mom and him took off
from you, like left you thatChristmas.
You really come a long way, butreally like that's the outside
world and they don't understandthe stuff that you're going
through behind behind the scenes, like I remember sharing with

(23:47):
Mrs Killer Bee in 2019, when welaunched our business in IRL
full time, someone reached outand said hey, I want to have you
on the podcast, I want to talkabout your business.
And I got on there and he waslike man, I'm just amazed with
how you just like you've hadthis overnight success.
How did you do it?
And I'm like whoa, whoa, whoa.
Wait a minute.

(24:07):
Our business started in 2010.
This has not been an overnightsuccess.
There's been a lot of down,there's been some ups, but
there's the downside of socialmedia and stuff like that.
But that is the reality and wejust talked recently with

(24:37):
there's a life behavioral coachthat we meet with in here.
His name is Meta Coach and wewere talking about when you were
talking about getting to thatspot of having those suicidal
thoughts.
There's we've met a lot ofpeople in here that have had
those type of thoughts and theycome in and put on this headset.
That's why we came in here isbecause we knew people would put
on the headset to try to escapetheir problems.

(24:59):
But when they take off theheadset they're still going to
have the same problems, they'restill going to hear that same
voice.
And there's been people that'scome here that was thinking
about suicide and through cominginto the headset they've made
connections with people wherethey felt vulnerable to share
and get help.
So I think that I think it'sreally good that we're talking

(25:20):
about this, because even in herepeople are getting a outside
view in areas, but people wouldseem to be more vulnerable to
open them up about the inside.
They kind of like let thatspill out.
So I'm so glad you're heresharing this, Kevin.
I want to ask some morequestions.
If you guys have any thoughtsor questions, make sure to hit
the kiosk.

(25:40):
We would love to bring you guysup as well.
Kevin, I would love to ask you,with this shift, like when you
came to this shift and you'relike, okay, your friend reached
out to you, what really put youin the place to say I'm not
staying here.
What was it that really helpedpush you out to listen to your

(26:03):
friend and start making thesechanges?

Yeah, so the whole being a podcaster thing
was like a dream and I felt like, at this point, I'm in my late
20s, I don't have a mortgage, Idon't have a car payment, I'm
living with my best friendpaying $500 a month for rent.
I don't have a family, I don'thave children.
If I'm ever going to take ashot at this crazy dream I have,

(26:27):
now is the time to do it.
That was one dream I have.
Now is the time to do it.
That was one.
The second big one is I hadsomebody who was down for the
ride with me.
I mean, alan and I have beendoing this together since,
essentially since that day whereI had that suicidal ideation.
So I had a great person who wassupporting me.
I was able to borrow his beliefbecause he said, kev, we're not

(26:49):
going to fail Like, we willwork our faces off and we're
going to find a way to besuccessful.
Did I fully believe that?
No, I did not.
I did not fully believe that.
But I didn't want to get to my,my 30s, my 40s, my 50s and say,
well, what if I did that?
What if I?
What if I did try?
What would have happened?
So it was that.
That was a really big piece ofit, and this is always hard,

(27:09):
because when I left my job mydepression essentially went away
.
So that was the last time Iever had any thoughts like that.
I was never on medication, itwas that job was just sucking
the life out of me because I hadconvinced myself that the
external results of that jobwere going to fix the internal
voids from my childhood.

(27:29):
And unfortunately it didn'twork that way.
So I think it was a mixture ofa lot of things, and this is the
other thing, the last thingthat I'll say when I started
doing the podcast full time, wehad zero results, but I was
super fulfilled and that was thefirst time I had ever been
fulfilled in my entire life.
That I can remember.

(27:50):
And I said to myself well, if Icould just be successful doing
this, if I just find a way tomake enough money to get to the
end of the week, to the end ofthe month, to the end of the
year, I just want to buy time.
I don't ever want somebody to beable to take this dream away
from me, and it was that, thatfulfillment, that made me just
keep wanting to do it, and Ithink fulfillment is one of
those.

(28:10):
It's kind of like I consider ita fuel source that burns very
cool, but for a very long periodof time, when happiness is
something that burns very hotbut very quickly, right.
So I could have a donut rightnow and I'd be happy, but I'm
going to be fulfilled if I takecare of my body and I have a
physically capable body and Itake care of my brain, right.

(28:32):
It's not exactly the sexiestthing in the moment, but I think
the fulfilling things veryrarely are.
So, yeah, long, long, long,answer short.
Somehow I found a way to getfulfillment.
That was a feeling I had neverreally felt before and I said if
I could feel that forever, thiswould be the best.
This would be the best life everWow.

That's good.
That's good.
We do have a guest.
Let's bring up.
We have a question, or let'sbring up Sam Quill Diener.
Can you bring up that mic forSam Quill?
Thanks for joining us.

I just want to say thank you for being so open
.
I think your story is powerfuland it does.
Thank you um it.
You know it does feel goodhearing you, know you talk about
your struggles.
Um, I guess my question to youwould be how did you come to
accept the fact that you hitrock bottom?
Like what was that?
Oh my god, I hit rock bottommoment.
And then, like afterwards, likeyou know recently, when you

(29:29):
start talking about it, and thenwhat does it look like to
actually believe that you are nolonger in that, in that place?
Like how does it look like tonot be in the back bottom?

I appreciate the question, sam.
Thank you so very much.
I would say when I felt like Ilost hope.
I mean that for me was thefirst time I'd ever really felt
like there was no hope beyondwhere I was, and it was a very,
very dark place and I think itwas the seriousness of okay,
I've had some dark thoughtsbefore, but I've never thought

(30:03):
to this level of darkness.
That's how I knew it was rockbottom.
This is the interesting thingabout talking about it.
I've never been afraid to talkabout the vulnerable stuff
because I do believe thatthere's someone out there that
needs to hear it and I'm okaywith.
I said this very early on inthe journey.
I said I think there'll bekisses on one cheek and maybe

(30:23):
slaps on the other.
The kisses are the people thatresonate with the message and
need to hear it.
The slaps are the people thatjust are going through their own
struggles and aren't ready tohear it necessarily.

How do you recognize the fact that you're
no longer in rock bottom Likewhat's your yes?

I would say I feel like I'm making meaningful
progress in the things thatmatter to me the most.
So when it comes to life, love,health and wealth, the business
, my relationship um health, mymental health, my physical
health, my spiritual health, itfeels very, very hopeful.
I feel very in control of myown thoughts, my own emotions.

(31:02):
I have a very good circle ofpeople around me and I think
that's probably the I'm very,very hopeful for the future.
I think that's probably the I'mvery, very hopeful for the
future.
I think that's probably thebest way to explain it.
I am so excited for the futureand I never was before.
I never, ever, ever was excitedfor the future, and now I think
about the future withexcitement all the time.

It's beautiful .
Thanks for your question.

Sam, thank you , sam.

Hey good soldier, oh, you're still muted
.
Ok, how?

about now there.
Thank you, sam.
Hey, good soldier, oh, you'restill muted.

Okay, how about now?
There we go.
We got you, there we go.

Very similar to your story was kind of my own
.
I was told by my teachersdoctors that I would never
amount to anything and that Iwas basically garbage.
Actually, that actual term wasused scum on the bottom of a
garbage can and this, you know,really affects you as a child.

(31:56):
So as I grew up, I always feltas though you know, I'm just
garbage, I'm going to squeeze myway through.
When I got into the military in1982, I accepted Christ as my
Savior and when that happened, Istarted reading his word and I
realized something and mostpeople don't realize this and

(32:18):
that is God does not make junk.
He doesn't.
Everything he makes is immortaland it's your choice where you
spend it smoking or non-smoking.
So when I had that revelationin my life, I've had two

(32:38):
successful careers, I have abeautiful wife, a house that's
paid for, so I basically pulledmyself out of that and I was
wondering what was that turningpoint in your life when you
pulled yourself out?

yeah, it's, it's very much.
Uh, what we were talking aboutwith the, the state proven self
assign.
Uh, the best example I can givegood soldier is I had this
flash card and every single dayI would track these five habits.
And one was fear chasing.
So every single day I wouldtrack these five habits and one
was fear chasing.
So every single day I would dosomething that was outside of my
comfort zone that I was afraidto do again state-proof,

(33:18):
self-assigned.
I would track how much money Ihad in the bank account.
I would exercise for 30 minutes.
I learned for 30 minutes andthere was a couple other ones.
Then I started to value myself.
So I think, good soldier topoint, when we're told we're not
good, when we're told not smart, when we're told we're never
going to be successful, thatbecomes the record.
And then, unfortunately, it'sjust easy to accept that.

(33:40):
And I always say this if you're, if you're, given a car and you
think it has four flat tires,you're not going to invest in a
new paint job.
It just it doesn't make logicalsense and I think a lot of us
are convinced that we have fourflat tires when that just isn't
true.
The person who told us thatjust didn't know what they were
looking at or, probably, morerealistically, they were going

(34:01):
through their own thing.
They got some of their limitingbeliefs or trauma triggers on
us.
So, yeah, I think it was for mepouring into myself to try to
restart or remix the record,based on the fact that I had
never done that before.
Once I started doing that, Iwas like, oh okay, maybe I am

(34:23):
something, maybe I could besomething, maybe I am valuable,
maybe I am smart.
I'm reading books now, that'sweird.
I've never done that.
So, yeah, good soldier, I thinkto your point.
I started pouring into myselfbecause I convinced myself that
I shouldn't, and when I didn't,I didn't get any results.
And then, when I started to, Istarted to feel better about
myself.

That's good, thank you.
Thank you, Kevin.

All right, let's bring up Lost Virtually,
virtually lost virtually.
Welcome back lost virtually.
Hey, thank you.
Do you place a premium on beingauthentic at all as far as your
feelings and being okay with,uh, with being not being okay?
Do you?
Do you place a premium on that?
Um over, just like trying to behappy all the time.

I do.
I do A very, very, very deepquestion.
I appreciate that I have a verystrange existence where I'm on
camera every day and if I'velearned anything over the 3000
episodes, I don't want to get oncamera and fake it.
So, honestly, if I was having abad day and I came here and you
said, hey, how are you?

(35:37):
I would tell you like, eh, it'sbeen a rough one.
It hasn't?
Today's been a great day.
It's been a long day, but it'sbeen a great day.
So, yeah, lost virtually ahundred percent.
I think that there's enoughfalsity and there's enough ego
and there's enough hiding in theworld and I don't want to be
part of that.
I think the only real way tohelp somebody is to be you.
And here's the point of allthat, to this day, I still have

(36:02):
struggles with limiting beliefs.
Occasionally I was nervous asheck standing behind the window
over there.
I've spoken thousands of times,but I was like I don't know
what if they don't like me?
What if I?
What if in the virtual worldit's different?
What if I forget?
What if I get nervous?
Whatever Right?
So even to this day, there isstill resistance around doing

(36:23):
the things that scare me, and itwould be inauthentic for me to
tell you I have it all figuredout or all of this is easy.
So, yes, I do place a bigpremium on loss, virtually
because I don't feel fulfilled.
If I'm not being authentic andI do again you're going to hear
me say fulfillment so many timeswe should get a.

(36:45):
I don't know, we'll have adartboard Every time I say it.
We can throw a dart against theboard, but I think fulfillment
is the thing, it is the measure,it is the compass.
If you're fulfilled, you'redoing something right.
If you're not fulfilled, Ithink that's an opportunity for
something.
I don't know what exactly, butprobably for something.

I love that you put a premium on that,
because I think those are thetype of people that we really
want to surround ourselvesaround, and the people that's
putting a premium on being realand saying, hey, I'm not having
a good day, uh and and beingreal about that, being open and
we can create that dark thing inhere.
So the next time you come on,you're gonna have to watch
because people probably throwingdarts at you.

(37:21):
So I love it, we'll have anescape route.

So definitely not next time I come on.
You think you think you'regonna get me out of here.
Good luck, I don't know luck.
I don't know how to grab ontosomething.
I'm not going anywhere.

He's like I'm staying forever.

You are stuck in here now.

Kind of to your point.
This is so interesting, so Ijust saw this post right before
we got on here tonight and aperson was writing about how,
you know, we as a culture put somuch emphasis on the need to
always be happy or always be,you know, in a good mood always
like be on the top of themountain, you know.

(37:58):
But really a full life includeseverything.
So there's going to bedisappointment, but how do you
bounce back from that?
There's going to be sadness,because if you never know
sadness, you can never know whatreal happiness or real joy
looks like.
So it's so interesting that youbrought that up, because I
literally just read that and Inever thought of that before.

(38:19):
It's really kind of part of mypersonality to always want
things to be on a high, alwayswant to be happy, never deal
with sadness.
So it's really something tothink about and I appreciate
that you brought that up andyour question lost as well.
You know, it's reallyinteresting to think about that.

I appreciate that and it was a very good question
.
Very good question.

It was a very good question I think that
I want to ask you this, sincewe're talking about this and you
mentioned it earlier and you'rekind of touching on it too, mrs
Killeby.
So do you think I've got my ownthoughts, but I want to hear
what you have to share too.
Do you think that someone canactually succeed without
struggling, or do you feel likethat's a necessary part of the
process?

I would.
I would say my thesis is thesize of the goal dictates the
amount of struggle I think, I asa podcaster.
If there's any other podcastersin here, shout out to you.
As a podcaster, I will mostlikely have to suffer more than
somebody else, because I'm.
My goal is to build the mostsuccessful self-improvement

(39:21):
company on the planet, becausemy goal is to build the most
successful self-improvementcompany on the planet.
That will not be easy, it maynever happen and it is going to
require me to grow beyond what Iever thought I was capable of.
But if I said you know what?
I just want to do 50 episodesand see what happens there's a
lot less struggle there.
I have a great relationship withmy wife.
I do.

(40:05):
It's great, it's amazing.
We're deeply in love.
But it's also very challengingbecause it is lifing and it's
going to life us and it's comingfor us all in some way, shape
or form.
So there's going to be somelevel of struggle.
I would rather choose my, I'drather choose my heart.
Now I'm not saying your lifehas to be anything like mine
like mr killer b.
Mrs killer b, I'm not saying ithas to.
Everybody's life and theirstruggles are going to be

(40:27):
personal, depending on whattheir goals are, what their
measurements for success are,what's deeply meaningful to them
.
So no, I don't think you reallycan.
I think it's easy to sell thatas a dream, but I think that can
be misleading and it sets falseexpectations for people.

I agree a hundred percent.
I think that that's soimportant to remember is that I
think that that is that that ispart of the process.
It molds us into what we are,you know, evolving into as as we
get older, like we can lookback at our, our struggles and
realize that there was purposeeven in the struggles, that
those have been used to form usand to create who we are today,

(41:03):
and gives us insight on wherewe're going forward and what our
priorities are.
What really matter most to us.
That was actually, you know,your, your, your dream is so
much different than ours andthat's why I love that you point
out that that's okay and that'skind of the mindset you have to
be aware of, even with whateveryour guys' goals are, just
because your goal isn't somebodyelse's, or your vision someone

(41:24):
else doesn't understand.
That's okay, because we're alluniquely created, and I think
that that's a beautiful part,because I had a point in my life
where I'm like I want to have ahuge business and just recently
me and Mrs Killer Bee wastalking I said you know, I
remember years ago I thought ifwe could just make six figures,
it would be the, it would be it,it would be an amazing life.

(41:46):
But then, when we hit sixfigures, it's like, well, if we
could just hit this, and then wecould just hit this.
And I'm like, wait a minute,there's always a moving target.
And then I started realizingthat the higher that mark got
and the closer we got to it, themore stress started coming on
me, and it was things that itstarted taking away parts from
me in my life that I'm like thethings I really care a lot about

(42:06):
are really I'm sacrificing thatand I didn't want to do that.
So for me, I'm like I just toldher this, I think it was
probably what maybe six monthsago I was like you know what?
I don't think I want to growthe business bigger than this.
Uh, I, I'm, I'm, I'm contenthere, not that I don't want to
grow it yes, we'll continue togrow but my, that's not my focus
.
Now my focus is like, hey,let's, let's do what we can here

(42:30):
and live and live our life.
What makes us happy, uh, andwhat, what we really find that
value in and lean into that, andthat's okay.
Like it's going to be differentfor each one of us and I love
that you pointed that out.

Not only is it different, that's the way it
should be.

Exactly.

Not only is it because there would be some
people that would say that'sweak, that's weak.
What do you mean?

You don't yes.

No, no.
If I could give any bit ofadvice that sticks that we can
take after this.
Sit after this.
Sit down and write out yourcore values in one column, your
core beliefs in the secondcolumn and then your core
aspirations in the third columnif any of those are conflicting.
So I had someone I'll say thisquick because I know we only
have a couple minutes I wasworking with somebody one time

(43:14):
and I said what do you want outof your podcast?
And they say I want to be yourlevel of successful, but times
10.
It's like, okay, I don't knowhow to get to times 10 yet, but
I can.
I can get you to where we are.
And I said but before we dothat, let's talk about what's
important to you.
You're a family man, right?
He said yeah, yeah, yeah, yeahLove my family, so you want to
be able to get the kids off thebus every day.

(43:34):
He said, yep, non-negotiable.

Cool, cool, you want to be a dinner night
recitals sporting events, parentteacher conference.

He said, yep, those are all non-negotiables.
I said, brother, I I love youand I mean this with all the
love in the world this ain't foryou.
Yeah, I know you think you wantwhat we have, but the journey
to get there would be somiserable for you because you
have to give up all of your corevalues and you'd have to change
all your core beliefs for youraspirations.
That is something that has beenso powerful.
To see from people is we thinkwe want the result, but the core
values and the core beliefs arewhat we might have to sacrifice

(44:10):
in the process.
So just if I could leave withany bit and, yvonne, we'll make
sure we get you that.
That is what I would say,because my core values are, I
like, working.
It's.
It's nine o'clock.
I've been working since 6am.
I love this.
This is awesome.
I can't believe I'm here.
Like, how did I get here?
This is great.
I'm not going to.
I'm not going to have children.

(44:31):
That's by design, right.
So I understand my life isgoing to be different, but
that's in alignment with my corevalues and my core beliefs.
So I just want to throw thatout there.

That's so beautiful.
Thank you for sharing that.
And I'll just like add on.
Not even adding on, actually,but just agreeing with you that,
like, each one of us have todecide what success looks like
to us.
And that's not about money, andthat's not about a job or a
title.
It's about what do you wantyour life to look like and then
go after that.

(45:00):
And that's exactly what you'resaying, and I love that.
It's so beautiful to think thatwe have that freedom and that
agency in our lives to decidewhat is success to me, and I
have the freedom to go afterthat.

That's I think that's amazing.
I love it.

So I've been listening to your podcast for a
while now.
I love your podcast, by the way, so you often talk about
self-improvement and consistency.
What's one habit or mindsetshift that has had the biggest
impact in your own growth, andhow can others apply it to their

(45:38):
own lives?
Good question.

First of all, I appreciate yeah, it's a great
question.
I appreciate listening to thepodcast.
For me it would probably be 30minutes of learning every day,
non-negotiable.
First thing, because when I'mpouring into me, I feel like
everything else gets better.
At the end of the day, we arethe thing that we take
throughout this entire life andthe more we learn, the more we

(46:02):
learn, the more we grow, I think, the more capable we become.
So for me, that's what it wouldbe, but this is what I would say
to everybody else there's mostlikely one, two or three things
that very, very, very muchaffect your self-worth.
So when I'm not in the gymconsistently and I'm not saying
I have to be ripped and have asix-pack, I just mean the effort

(46:22):
of the gym when I'm not in thegym consistently and I'm not
saying I have to be ripped andhave a six pack, I just mean the
effort of the gym when I'm notin the gym consistently, I'm not
as fulfilled.
There's something to that.
When I'm not pouring into myrelationship, I'm not as
fulfilled.
There's something to that.
So for me it's learning, it'sfitness and it's spending time
with my wife.
I would say for somebody elseit would be.

(46:44):
Let's tap into what reallyreally helps your self-worth.
Maybe it's fitness, maybe it'sfocusing on setting one boundary
every single day.
Maybe it's focusing on gettingout of your comfort zone a
little bit every day.
Maybe it's learning every day.
So for me it's that, but Ithink for everybody else it's
going to be within the corevalues and core beliefs that we
talked about, and if you canidentify that one thing that
really moves the needle on yourself-worth, I'm willing to bet

(47:06):
you will feel different.
I'm not going to say you'regoing to feel amazing all the
time, but you will feeldifferent pretty quickly.
I'm willing to bet that's good,that's good.

That's good.

Good question.

So we've got very good question, yvonne.
The I'm going to ask you this.
I want to make sure I ask youthis before you leave If you
could go back and talk toyourself at that lowest moment
today and you could say onething, what would you tell?

yourself.
The pain that you'reexperiencing right now will
eventually be a superpower thatnobody will ever be able to take
away from you.
That's good, but that's good.
Would I have listened?
I don't know.
I like to think I would haveright.
But we somebody asked me onetime.
They said what is the biggestlesson from the podcast, and I

(47:53):
said we would have guests on andafter they told their story I'd
be like whoa, what anincredible story of overcoming
adversity.
We'll probably never hearanything like that again.
And then next week the guestswould have their own unique
version of that same exact storyof overcoming something and
then bringing it to the world.
So I believe that youradversity can be your advantage

(48:13):
if you have the self-belief andthe resources and the
resourcefulness to be able touse it.
So that's what I would havetried to say, but again,
hindsight's 20-20,.
So it's easy for me to say thatnow, but that's what I would
try to say.

Kevin, as we get ready to wrap up, what's
the best way for people toconnect with you outside of this
metaverse?

Yeah, I don't.
I mean, I think I'm gonna movehere, so you don't really have
to worry about it.

This is where I'm at.

As yvonne said, we have a podcast uh called next
level university.
We do an episode every day.
It's always free, so that's agreat place to connect and on
I'm the type of like person tojust give out my information.
So my email is Kevin at nextlevel universecom.
Anything.
You need any thoughts, anyfeedback?
Shoot me a an email.
I do my own emails.

(49:01):
I'm happy to listen, I'm happyto be a shoulder, whatever it is
.
I think that's probably thebest thing I can say in this
moment.

If there's anyone that's listening right
now, anyone listening right nowor that feel stuck or feel like
they're at their lowest pointright now, what would you say to
them and what would you wantthem to know?

If you feel stuck , I would take whatever your
number one goal is and break itinto like a tenth of the size
that it currently is.
We don't need massive movement,we need a little, a little
movement, that's.
We don't need anything massiveright now.
So when you're stuck, you focuson building a little bit of
momentum.
That would be that If you'rereally struggling and you feel

(49:42):
like you're in that dark spot, Iwould reach out to someone,
whether that's a friend, afamily member, somebody you
trust, a professional, whoeverit may be, because I think
sometimes it just helps to somefor somebody to be there and say
hey look, I know right now itfeels like everything is burning
down, but tomorrow could becompletely different.
Feels like everything's burningdown, but tomorrow could be

(50:03):
completely different.
And then, if you feel like lifeis going really well right now,
now is the time to bevulnerable with the people
around you in case the stormdoes come.
The best time to build anumbrella is long before the
storm comes, and I neverexpected to have mental health
stuff.
That was never something Iexpected.
Luckily, I had built reallygood relationships with people
when I was feeling good, so Icould lean on that.

(50:27):
When I wasn't.
So I would say, that's kind ofthree different directions you
can go, depending on how you'refeeling.

That's well said and for anybody listening
to the podcast, make sure youcheck out the show notes.
We're going to put someresources in there for you as
well.
If you are in a low place andyou're looking for help, we'll
make sure we put some of thoseresources in the show notes.

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