September 26, 2023 • 41 mins
BONUS - A Conversation with Haley from part 5, Minding The Beehive
CW/TW - Foul Language, discussions of SA and suicide
For today’s bonus episode, Courtney and Haley (who was interviewed in S2E12 Minding the Beehive, part 5) have an open and honest yet casual conversation - as somewhat of an afterthought and recap of the entire Still Minding the Beehive series. Everything talked about will be from the perspective of sexual assault victims. We talk about what we are into right now, and then dive a little bit into consent (wondering why there is more education and training on things like hair, but not enough when it comes to things like what consent is, advocacy and reporting), the nuances of the law, the victim blaming and shaming that unfortunately, most victims face, why people are afraid to report, senators and investigators that make (and then break) promises, advocacy, and the importance of applying pressure. We also talk smack about perpetrators because why wouldn't we? These victims and survivors have had to endure enough, so give them grace and let them lash out.
The day this episode goes live will be one day after September 25 - National Day of Remembrance for Homicide Victims. If you would like, please click HERE to see what we posted about it.
Special mentions - The H3 Podcast and The Kardashians.
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linktr.ee/anefariousnightmarepodcast
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Email - anefariousnightmare@gmail.com
intro/outro by Lanie Hobbs of True Crime Cases with Lanie and It's haunted... what now? Podcasts. Music provided by epidemic sound, intro/outro music originally by Ghost Stories Inc, remixed by Ryan RCX Murphy.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/a-nefarious-nightmare-true-crime--5908360/support.
CW/TW - Foul Language, discussions of SA and suicide
For today’s bonus episode, Courtney and Haley (who was interviewed in S2E12 Minding the Beehive, part 5) have an open and honest yet casual conversation - as somewhat of an afterthought and recap of the entire Still Minding the Beehive series. Everything talked about will be from the perspective of sexual assault victims. We talk about what we are into right now, and then dive a little bit into consent (wondering why there is more education and training on things like hair, but not enough when it comes to things like what consent is, advocacy and reporting), the nuances of the law, the victim blaming and shaming that unfortunately, most victims face, why people are afraid to report, senators and investigators that make (and then break) promises, advocacy, and the importance of applying pressure. We also talk smack about perpetrators because why wouldn't we? These victims and survivors have had to endure enough, so give them grace and let them lash out.
The day this episode goes live will be one day after September 25 - National Day of Remembrance for Homicide Victims. If you would like, please click HERE to see what we posted about it.
Special mentions - The H3 Podcast and The Kardashians.
OUR LINKS -
Become a patron! By joining our patreon, you get access to many goodies - including our palate cleanser, lighthearted, comedy style podcast NOT SO NEFARIOUS CRIMINALS! www.patreon.com/a_nefarious_nightmare
linktr.ee/anefariousnightmarepodcast
X (formerly twitter) - @anefariouspod
Instagram, Threads and Tiktok - @nefariousnightmarepod
Email - anefariousnightmare@gmail.com
intro/outro by Lanie Hobbs of True Crime Cases with Lanie and It's haunted... what now? Podcasts. Music provided by epidemic sound, intro/outro music originally by Ghost Stories Inc, remixed by Ryan RCX Murphy.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/a-nefarious-nightmare-true-crime--5908360/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
And the Farious Nightmare contains themes thatmay be explicit or triggering. For some
specific warnings and disclaimers will be mentionedin the show notes, and the Farious
Nightmare assumes all parties that are mentionedin these cases to be innocent unless proven
guilty in a court of law.Listener discretion is strongly advised. You can
help us grow the show by leavingus a five star written review on Apple
(00:20):
podcast or Spotify, or you canjoin our Patreon for lighthearted bonus content.
I'm Courtney and I'm Amanda, andthis is a bonus episode for a Nefarious
Nightmare. Hey everyone, before weget into it, I'll offer a content
(00:56):
and trigger warning off the top.There will be discussions of sexual violence and
narcissistic abuse, so if you findthat to be triggering, please skip this
episode, as well as any episodein either the Minding the Beehive or Still
Minding the Beehive series. Okay,so now that that is out of the
(01:17):
way, I just want to remindyou all that Courtney and I are going
to take a few weeks off beforeseason six starts. We have really been
hard at work trying to get ontop of prioritizing our mental health, planning
for future events, fine tuning someorganization, cleaning a messages, and researching
for Plenty of episodes in the works, a few which will be updates on
(01:41):
previous cases. Since we are onthe topic of mental health, you may
or may not have noticed Courtney's absencefrom social media the past few days.
I've really been onto her about spreadingherself too thin, and she finally took
my advice. So not to worry. She's still alive, but she's healing
and taking a much needed break.She does have all the fomo. That's
(02:04):
a fear of missing out for allyou fellow millennials out there, so be
sure to fill her in when shereturns to Facebook or whatever social media exists
by then. To be honest,she is currently watching old episodes of Keeping
Up with the Kardashians. You know. It's her and eyes guilty pleasure.
We both love the Kardashians, butwe don't really like to advertise that very
(02:27):
much. But that's probably because it'sdrama filled and we can watch somebody else's
drama instead of our own dramas.Who woo woa hold the phone. I
like the Kardashians. Okay, it'sentertaining. It's like watching a diamond encrusted
train wreck. Just you know whatI'm gonna I'm gonna go before Amanda smacks
me because I'm supposed to be ona quote unquote break. But yeah,
(02:51):
I don't want to get smacked ordon't want to get us another negative review
about how we aren't adept at speechand that we speak still whatever that means.
Okay, bye, So not toworry because you'll be hearing a lot
from her in this episode as sheand Haley chat for today's bonus episode,
Who's Haley? You ask? Well, we invited Haley back to discuss what's
(03:14):
been happening recently. As you allmay remember, Haley told her story in
part five of the original Mining theBeehive series. For more reference, you
can navigate back to season two,episode twelve. We invited her back because
we felt she was an essential partof the most recent series. The one
thing I would like to remind youall is that Haley initially was a sting
(03:37):
operative, but then we find outthat she was actually one of Adrian's victims.
It was such a pleasure to haveher back on and we appreciate Haley
from making time to chat with us. With that, I'm going to let
Courtney take over from here, allright, So thank you very much Haley
for joining me tonight. Just soeverybody knows, Haley was on our original
(04:01):
Minding the Beehive series back in seasontwo, and this was a little over
a year ago. But I reallywanted to bring her back for this special
bonus episode because she is very essentialin the original case and has just been
hugely amazing throughout this whole process asit were. She's still pretty much advocating
(04:23):
and just being a good friend andsupport system for Holly and everybody else.
So yeah, I really wanted toinclude her and bring her on. So
welcome back, Hayley. How areyou doing today? Thank you so nice.
I'm doing pretty good. How areyou? I'm tired, man,
like. I'm sure that you're awarethat we've had a lot happened in the
(04:45):
past couple of weeks, and youknow, I don't sleep, so that's
a fun thing that I don't getto do. But yeah, so yeah,
I'm gonna kind of keep this prettylow key and chill because I know
that the ones that have listened tothe original series would want an update.
(05:06):
But I kind of want to askyou some questions about you. So I
don't know, like, what areyou watching on TV right now? Honestly,
I don't really watch TV. Ijust watch YouTube, and I specifically
watch a podcast called H three Podcasts. I've heard if they know anything about
them, they make very very longpodcasts that are anywhere from like two to
(05:30):
four hours long. So I justdon't have time to watch anything about that.
Now I understand what did they talkabout? Anything and everything? I
don't even know how to describe it. Like each day that they do it
is kind of a little different likeVibe. They have a political podcast,
they have like celebrity drama, Internetdrama, just things that are going on
(05:53):
in general. It's like a wholecrew of people, so it's more about
like them. That's kind of cool. Actually, I might actually have to
look into that. It's it's kindof like a variety show in a way.
Right, Yeah, that's cool.See. Part of the reason why
I asked you is because I've beenso desperately wanting to admit to everybody that
I've been watching the Kardashians, andI, you know, deeply hoping that
(06:15):
somebody else was going to be likeI'm watching the Kardashians, and I was
gonna be like, Okay, Idon't feel like such an ass. So
that's the whole reason why I asked. Now I've I've also been watching,
well not recently, but Yellow Jackets. But I'm gonna definitely check out that
H three podcast. Sometimes I justneed something else, you know what I
(06:39):
mean. I mean, honestly,the Kardashians is that is a good one.
You're making me feel a lot better. I have the hugest like I
was just telling you earlier that Ihave the hugest head of roal crush on
you, but I also have thehugest head of roal crush on Chloe Kardashian.
I just I can't, you knowwhat I mean. And also,
(07:01):
as much as I used to dislikeCourtney Kardashian, I'm kind of starting to
understand where she's coming from. SoI guess maybe it's a yeah, she
she's she's you know, she's there, But I get why she is the
way she is, and you knowthat's that's I'll say about that. So
(07:25):
can you give everybody listening a briefrecap on what had happened to you?
To prompt us to have an interviewin the first place. Yeah, so
I was like sexually coerced by Adrian, and then after I found out about
like the other victims in Holly,then I continue to talk to him.
(07:46):
And I was the one who recordedthe phone call that you guys posted.
Have you heard from him or anyof his family members you know recently?
No? No, no contact?Good? I really wanted to ask.
Okay, so Tatum and I kindof brushed up on this a little bit,
(08:09):
but it's hilarious, so you know, I want to bring it up,
But what's up with the salad?Didn't we need to hear it from
you? Because you made these likesuper funny graphics And I was just like,
wow, we did, like wedid like a campaign even for like
the current series, and this girl, y'all, she gets up and she
(08:31):
takes this campaign and puts salad onthere. I was like, fuck,
yeah, can you please explain thesalad? Oh? Yes. So in
the beginning of like all of usposting our awareness post about Adrian, his
mother decided to make a fake Facebookpage and her profile picture was just a
(08:56):
salad like on a table, andwe we just loved that image. Obviously,
and we it was just so clearthat it was her literally hiding the
whole salad. So we had talkedabout it recently and I was like,
oh my god, I totally forgotthat she did that. That is the
funniest thing ever. So then Idecided to take the ugliest picture of me
(09:20):
and put it in a corner ofthe salad picture that I just looked at
Applebee's salad, and I had itas my pofilo picture for like a month.
Yeah, I think I remember that. At first, I was like,
what is this and I was like, there's I just it's an inside
joke. I'm no kind of partof so yes, no one understood.
(09:43):
I had my family members be like, why do you why do you have
a salad? It's your creature,and then I would have to explain it.
So you are a fellow Aquarius,so you know, we run the
show. We're the best, andwe do things like post salad because why
the funck not like you, youshouldn't be online trolling people and hiding behind
(10:07):
salad. You just don't do that. So if you do, then people
like us are going to troll you. Hiding behind salad. Absolutely, it's
hilarious. How Why wouldn't I dothat? Why wouldn't I? Dude,
you should have like named each andeveryone like you had the cheese you had,
like the lettuce you had, thecruton, you like named them like
you know, Adrian and Stephen andVictorian, tam Yeah, this is you,
(10:35):
this is you? So yeah,can you also we were talking about
earlier, this is unfortunate about thatinvest You had an investigator after we did
your episode, and she decided tellme if I'm wrong, She decided to
quit working with you because you dida podcast episode. Is that meaning?
(10:58):
Yeah? Actually yes, I actuallyI re read the last email that she
sent me because I had just Ihadn't heard anything any updates, nothing about
the case ever since I first reportedit. I got an initial email from
(11:18):
her, and then I sent hersome things that she asked for, and
then I just never heard from heragain. So when Adrian was first arrested,
I just let her know that,you know, he was arrested and
he also still has you know,other cases and whatever going on, and
(11:39):
she kind of like gave me alittle more detail because I asked, okay,
if my case because she told memy case was closed and I was
like, okay, well, like, can I get some more information because
no one let me know that,Like I had no idea that my case
was closed. And then she saidthat she had her like I don't even
know what it's called, like someother type of detective contact Holly's detective and
(12:05):
Kitty's detective, and they did someresearch or whatever, and she basically said,
we saw the episodes of these podcastsof other victims, and unfortunately,
like that could be looked at asI can't remember the word. Hold on,
let me look it up. I'mliterally going to read what she said,
(12:26):
obstruction of justice or impeding on acase. Let me see it's read.
It could be considered collusion. Defenseattorney because since recollection and memories were
compared with other victims, that wouldbe considered collusion. Apparently, Okay,
so I guess I understand you knowwhere she's coming from on that. However,
(12:48):
that shouldn't stop somebody from trying toinvestigate. Am I wrong? Like
I mean absolutely not, not tomentionally with that many and that many people
like you think that all these randompeople from all these different states throughout the
country just randomly came across this andthey're like, you know what, Yeah,
I'm going to join in on this. Absolutely. I had a terrible
(13:09):
experience with him too. He like, no doing that. Yeah, this
is totally not like a serial rapist, victim cult or anything like that.
Like that's y'all, y'all knew eachother prior to any of this, and
we've said that, and we've alsosaid it's just different. How like they're
(13:30):
all describing the same person. Itdidn't know each other from Adam prior to
this. I mean, there's noway you can get how many women now
sixty together to like the same story, Like that's just not possible. And
another thing that bothers me about,Like like again, I want to say,
I understand where she's coming from aboutthe collusion, but if an investigator
(13:52):
calls me literally emails me two daysafter that season ended and says your podcast
has been instrumental, then why wouldyou stop invest That just makes no sense
to me. I'm sorry. Ithink I think that that investigator in Texas,
(14:13):
will we just say, bless herheart? Absolutely failed you, Like
that's I'm so sorry that happened toyou. I mean, what can you
do about it now? It wouldhave been great to have any other outcome
other than this. But hey,well hopefully she hears this episode and you
(14:35):
know, maybe somebody will audit her. I don't know, so tell me
so based off of what I,myself and Tatum have talked to you about,
because I know you haven't had achance to listen to the current series,
which I understand because these are heavycases and not everybody has the emotional
bandwidths to be able to handle that. And I completely like right now,
(14:56):
I'm trying to run far away fromit myself. I got death threats,
guys, but yeah, it's justtoo much sometimes. But I do want
to ask you, first of all, have you ever heard of sex stortion
prior to any of this? No, this was the first time. I
hadn't heard about any of that.Okay, but you have heard of revenge
(15:18):
porn, right, yes? Andyou do know that there's a difference between
the two, right, because noteverybody knows that there's a difference. I
think. I don't mean to putyou on the spot. No, well,
I mean my guests or what I'mwhat I think I know at least
like with revenge porn, excuse me, with revenge porn, like that's something
(15:41):
that they sent to them, likesent to another person, and then they
without their consent, have like distributedit. But I think with the sextortion
stuff, like do they even Idon't even think they know, Like people
are just stealing people's pictures, right, Yeah, So revenge porn is basically
like you've pissed off your ex boyfriend, he wants to get you back,
(16:03):
So those nudes or that sex tape. That basically Kim Kardashian speaking of that,
you know, hoviously he was kindof a victim of revenge porn,
if I recall correctly, there wasthe most hated man on the internet.
He was all about the revenge porn. I would say, revenge porn is,
you know, low carb sextortion,And I don't mean that to be
(16:23):
funny. That's just the best wayI can describe it. Extortion is basically
like you are literally extorting women online, pretty much right up there with trafficking,
except it's digitally. We myself andAmanda constantly say that it is digital
sexual assault. You are taking photoswith or without somebody's knowledge, such as
(16:47):
either they have photos in their phonethat only they have access to, but
you suddenly have the access to itas well. So you're stealing or you've
signed up for some kind of likemembership on a fans and have distributed without
their consent, and then you areblackmailing these victims by saying that you will
(17:07):
take it down unless they or theywon't take it down unless you either pay
them or you give them images ofsomebody else. So it's one of those
things that it's a serious crime thatis not being taken seriously by certain senators
over in the area that we discussed, even though they have made a law
(17:30):
criminalizing it to the fullest extent.They are ignoring these women. And the
thing about sex stortion is you couldliterally be innocent, and I'm not trying
to say this to scare anybody,but you could literally have taken an accidental
photo of yourself brushing your hair,right, This actually happened to one of
(17:52):
the victims brushing her hair, lookin the mirror. She was getting ready
to go to work, and herfriend took a picture of her topless and
it fell into the wrong hands,and they're blackmailing her with it. This
extortionist has gone as far as deepfaking miners as young as two years old
into sexual images for distribution online.So I don't even understand. Yeah,
(18:18):
how do you get into that?How? What? So, the perpetrator
that we believe and I'm not aboutto say his name on here yet,
but like the perpetrator we believe issomebody who was arrested with priors for pleasuring
himself in front of miners a fewtimes. They finally had deported him.
(18:41):
We don't know for one hundred percentfact, but we do know with a
ninety nine point ninety nine percent fact, and it's somebody that they the victims
that we spoke with, has beensaying from day one, but we just
needed that proof, you know.With all that though, That's the thing
about sextortion, and that's the reasonwhy I wanted to ask is because unfortunately,
(19:03):
not very many people are aware ofit, or they're not aware of
the difference between that and you know, we're bench porn and it's serious and
basically, I hate to say it, but we all could be put under
like in jeopardy of it, andso I'm really trying to raise as much
awareness about it as possible because youknow, you never know who it could
(19:26):
be. And that person is relentlessand he will continue doing it until he's
put behind bars and it's just sick. So but yeah, that's I didn't
mean to go into all that,but like, no, I guess it
wanted to ask. Yeah, it'sinsane, right, but I just wanted
to ask you. I was basicallysaying, based off of what we have
(19:48):
told you, you know, asfar as like the entire series, which
started with the sextortion it was phaseone. You know, what did you
think do you think that there couldhave been a way that the senator,
(20:12):
for example, should have listened andtaken it seriously, or do you think
there's anything that you, as somebodythat survived Adrianville Dusia, might think that
we could you know, add ingoing forward if we were to do another
series, or really generally, whatdid you think of the series? Even
though you haven't heard it, you'veheard of it. So yeah, I
(20:34):
mean it's obviously insane. That's allI can really say about it is I
don't understand why anyone won't why anyonewould want to do that in the first
place, or where you get todo to do that. And yeah,
I had never heard about any otherlike stories or anything, or I haven't
(20:55):
known anyone that had any of thatsex stortion like things happened to them.
So yeah, I mean awareness anumber one is a big thing and teaching
people what it is. And Ido like how you've already you know,
tried to think that distinction of howdifferent this is, and I think it's
(21:17):
I mean, it sounds like it'sa more like a newer thing to be
happening, and with all of ourlike technology getting nuts nowadays, I can't.
Oh my god, it's scary.It really is. It is,
and it is ridiculous that people don'ttake any of this kind of stuff seriously.
(21:37):
I mean, it's very clear thatthere aren't any ops, detectives,
centators, anyone who gives a fuckabout these things that women are going through,
and they just love to minimize itand ignore it and just be like,
well, it's obviously not that bigvideo, so let's go I don't
know, it's attacked this random persondown the street instead, or let's not
(21:59):
protect the school that's getting shoot upinstead, Like exactly, they're wasting I
don't know what they're wasting their timeand resources on, but they need to
listen to people because these stories,especially with sexual assault, and there are
so many like big celebrity stories thatare coming out, and it's like,
I don't know, yeah, findingout about what's his name from that seventies
(22:22):
show, we're finding out about thatone. That's not shocking to me about
Russell brand. I mean, allof these people are coming out of the
woodwork, and it's a lot ofit is because these women were afraid to
report, simple as they were afraidto report, or they felt like if
they reported, it wouldn't be takenseriously. Because the truth of the matter
is, it's not it's just someof the rug our lawmakers, our law
(22:48):
enforcement, they don't take it seriously. They think, oh, well,
they'll be okay in a couple ofyears. No, they're dealing with like
PTSD, they're dealing with trauma,they're dealing with mental health and depression and
body dysmorphia, all this kind ofstuff, and absolutely with sex solution.
I mean, anybody could be avictim of it, and its just and
(23:10):
that's still insanely violating. Yeah,do they not understand that. I can't
even imagine. That would make mefeel so incredibly unsafe. Yeah, it's
it's, oh my gosh, it'sterrifying, Like what these people can do
now, the one that we're dealingwith, and I'm not afraid to say
it, he's not that smart.But there are there are cases. I've
(23:33):
been trying to talk to the FBI. We have contacted in our poll,
we have contact because the person hasbeen deported. We have contacted so many
people. We've contacted Senator Lynn Waltz, who is ignored and not commented on
anything we've said. We have beenapplying so much pressure. It's really profound
(23:55):
to me that a senator in Fremont, where this is happening, who had
created a law to fully penalize somebodyfor this. It's straight up ignoring twenty
or more women. But in themeantime, Kay Granger was willing to listen
to me, and Kay Granger isin Texas. How fun stuff is that?
(24:19):
Does that? I mean? AndI'm not saying I'm not saying that
all law enforcement are bad, notby a long shot. What I am
saying is that it is their dutyto protect and serve, whether they are
the FBI, whether they are policeofficers, whatever. And part of protecting
and serving is doing your job andtaking women seriously when they are complaining and
(24:44):
reporting about sextortion, and especially whenyou've got civilians busting their ass and saying,
oh, I've got all the evidence. You don't have to do anything.
Here's the evidence, just go getthe guy. And they're like,
no, I'll wait till I havea slow day, and they never It's
insane to me, like they willonly do something if you do all the
work for them, and they stillwon't nothing. Really yeah, exactly,
(25:07):
exactly, yeah, or I don'tknow, They'll always find some excuse.
It is insane. That is allwe've seen. It's just disappointment after disappointment
after disappointment. It is absolutely that'sall I can keep saying. It is
insane. I can't believe it.There is a significant amount of people who
have been victimized by a sextortion whoend up unliving themselves. The one case
(25:33):
that has always stuck with me wasthe case of Amanda Todd, where she
was sixteen years old and was avictim of I would say it was a
mixture of revenge porn as extortion,but nonetheless it was sextortion because she was
a miner and she was victimized forthree years and at the age of sixteen,
she unlived herself her perpetrator. Ididn Coban was not caught and apprehended
(25:59):
for ten years. That sixteen yearold old girl did not live to see
justice. There is a case herein Texas where somebody had unlived himself because
he was a victim of sex stortion. What is it going to take for
these people to take these men andwomen seriously? You know, was insane
(26:21):
ten years, ten years until theyfinally caught an apprehended Iden Coban. That
must have been agonizing for that family. Yeah, Carol todd Is. I
mean, she's obviously got a littlepiece now. But they didn't even if
I remember correctly, they didn't evenfully punish him like they gave him I
(26:41):
want to say, maybe five orten years or something, despite the fact
that this sixteen year old and alivedherself because she was going through it,
because she was victimized by a fullgrown man extorting her photos online. But
these people Lynn Waltz, for example, I want to just ignore these women's
(27:02):
cries for help. I just don'tget it. But sorry, I did
not mean to get all passionate aboutthat, but it's just it's a real
problem. It's a real problem.And yeah, and obviously this person really
wants to get away with it becausehe's going to continue sending harassing emails to
people. He's going to continue harassingthese women. He's now sending death threats,
(27:25):
and it's just like cool, cool, cool, are you going to
get on the plane and fly allthe way across like the Pacific and come
get me? I mean, becausebecause I'm calling you out for exposing women
and children, like, yeah,you should have thought about that before.
Helloah yeah, so yeah, it'sfucking crazy, right, So I don't
understand. I really I wish that. I don't know, there was like
(27:51):
because you know what's crazy in thehair industry, Like you have to continue
to take classes, you have tocontinue to get educated hair right his hair.
Why wouldn't like law enforcement or whoeverthe hell else? Why wouldn't they
have continual education on different things?Right? I mean I think especially with
like with the email about us whatever, cruding? Is that what it was?
(28:18):
Yeah? Like for myself, Iknow we talked about on my episode
last year that I didn't realize thatI was a victim. I knew that
what I went through was really weirdand really awful, and it made me
feel so incredibly uncomfortable and it hascaused me a lot of pain and suffering
(28:40):
throughout this time. But I hadno idea in the beginning that it was
like sexual assault, and because Iwas never educated on consent, on the
specific specifics of these things. Andeven now, like so, at my
job, I work with a bunchof younger men and they listened to still
(29:03):
Rogane and different podcasts that are similarto that. And this morning, I
literally I came home from work earlytoday because I couldn't stop shaking and crying
because of what this podcast was talkingabout. Yeah, and it's been over
a year since what happened to mehappened to me, and I feel like
I've mentioned this a million times,like my incident wasn't even the worst of
(29:26):
it, Like it wasn't that terrible, but it has still affected me this
much, and it's still a yearand some change later, still affecting me.
And this podcast was actually talking aboutRussell Brand and all his stuff,
and they just talk about it solightly and just laugh and joke and whatever,
(29:48):
and it's like, no one fuckingcares about these women. It's not
funny. No one fucking cares right, and I just sat like I was
just devastated hearing all of this stuff. And that's how so many people think
about it. And they don't theydon't learn what consent is. They don't
learn about all these different things thatcould be happening and could be very negatively
(30:12):
affecting women and their lives, andthey just joke about it because they have
no idea what's going on. They'renot going through it. I mean,
as if I'm not saying obviously,of course men go through my sexual assault
too, but basically it's more womenright in general, let's you know.
So it's just it's really disheartening andI wish that people would just stop thinking
(30:37):
that it's just a little like okay, get over it, okay whatever it
was just like everyone goes through thatwhatever. Okay, that wasn't actually sexual
assault, like you know what Imean. It's just it's so tiring and
hearing all of these cases, andyou know, all the celebrities that have
been in the news and stuff lately, it's just so tiring to hear all
(31:00):
of these dumb opinions like I'm sorry, they're dumb as fuck. You guys
are dumb as fucked if you thinkthat it's a joke, if you think
that these women are just lying andpulling these stories out of their asses.
Like I've seen so many people postabout the what's his name from that seventy
show, whatever his name is,just like, you know, we all
(31:21):
know how hard it is to getsomeone convicted of rape, and for him
to be convicted for thirty fucking years. Yeah, Like and they're still just
joking about it and like, well, probably wasn't true. It's wild and
it's not fair. I mean,I am very, very glad that he's
finally seeing his retribution for everything thathe has done. But it's it's almost
(31:45):
like it's too little, too late, Like if they had just listened and
saw all the signs and were alot more aware when it all started happening
to these women and took them seriouslyin the first places, like this could
have been lock and key a longtime ago. But I don't understand why
(32:07):
people want to drag this kind ofshit out. It's not something that should
be dragged out. It's it's it'sruining lives. And they're like, well,
it takes time. We understand thatthe process takes time, but when
you're sitting on your ass eating adonut, not doing fucking shit until somebody's
like, oh, well, theblood's on your hands now, and then
they do something. It's not agood look. I mean, I'm sorry.
(32:28):
So I'm very glad that we sharein the same kind of passion about
this, because I'm beginning to thinkthat I'm going crazy. But I don't
know. I just I'm really tiredof seeing people who are human, that
are that have beating hearts and emotionsand feelings just being thrown to the wayside,
(32:50):
you know, And I get it. Like I just realized, like
over just over a year ago thatwhen I was in my situation, I
was actually assaulted. I didn't knowthat that's what had happened to me until
I really thought about it, andI was like, holy shit, I
was raped, right, But mysituation is also not as serious as some
(33:10):
others, and it's more serious thansome others, and it's not a pissing
contest. It's the fact that weall are humans with beating hearts and emotions
and feelings and passions and things thatwe want to do when we grow up
and things that we want to teachour children. Whether we've been in sex
work or not, whether we've beenin a cult or not, whether we
have been victimized by Adrian Bill tosay or not. It doesn't matter.
(33:32):
Treat us like human beings, youknow, oh look at us. This
is supposed to be a lighthearted fun. So do you have any goals pertaining
to advocacy and if so, doyou like what efforts do you think that
everybody should employ to persuade things likelaw enforcement and anybody else in the higher
(33:57):
up to take those of us withbig voice is serious? I mean,
I think the more of the peopletalk about it the better. Of course,
just having more open conversations about it, because honestly, I mean,
I see how hard everyone works totry to get something actually like setting stone,
(34:17):
like wall wise or whatever the hell, and it just not to say
that it's not worth it, becauseobviously it is sometimes, but it's very
fucking tiring, yea, and aton of disappointment after disappointment, and I
know that. I mean, Ican't change anything. The most that I
(34:39):
can do is do what I've beendoing, like talking openly about what happened
and having these conversations. And ifI hear people having these conversations and it's
like, okay, tons of themisinformation. Then now I'm comfortable as a
person to go up and actually saysomething like you don't interviewed myself, But
(35:02):
as far as me like contacting mylocal whoever, I mean, I just
don't. I don't want to dothat. Don't even if we've been the
energy right, even if we haveto like liaise somebody to do it for
us, like, just do it, right, I completely get it.
(35:24):
Yeah, the most I can dois just keep spreading awareness. Yes,
I do know, and you doan amazing job at it. I'm always
watching. I know that sounded reallycreepy, but I'm always watching. I'm
always watching. I can see youbeginning to look at out what was that
one thing? Something feels sketchy orwhatever You're like in the in the stairs,
(35:46):
and oh my god, I canthink of it. I'm kind of
sketched out. Yeah, kind ofsketched out right, you know. Damn
well, everybody's gonna laugh at thatone if they know what we're talking about.
I don't know if I should givethat inside joke away, but that's
okay, or maybe I should.I don't know. So, do you
(36:07):
have anything that you'd like for listenersto know, and any advice that you'd
like to give. I mean,for anyone who has, you know,
dealt with shit law enforcement and youknow, was scared to report and did
and ended up being awful, justknow that I'm there with you. And
(36:27):
I mean, I don't want todiscourage people from reporting and from doing these
things, because it is so importantand it's not for you know, the
faint of heart. I mean justseeing you know, the other women involved
in what they've had to do withtheir cases is so it's just so tiring.
I commend them every day for stickingto it and working so fucking hard
(36:52):
on their own to get all ofthese things done because the people that are
supposed to be there for them arenot. And I mean, I just
hope that people's you know, viewof reporting and like victim blaming and like
why didn't she say anything earlier?Why didn't you go report? Look around
(37:13):
to look at all of us womenwho are complaining and crying for help,
for anybody to get this man offthe streets, and no one listens right
like like they're gonna take you know, honestly, it is just astounding.
And I am so incredibly sorry foranybody that had to go through anything like
(37:35):
that, and I love you andI am I am with you like I
am. Just it is. Itis so incredibly hard. It is.
That's all I can say. Itis so incredibly hard. You're just mentally
exhausted all the time from all thesethings, and it's crazy. You are
amazing, You are no you.Now we're gonna fight on air. Okay,
(38:04):
do you have any messages to anyperpetrators you want to tell somebody go
fuck themselves? Oh? Yeah,absolutely, O course sure. I'm sure
mister Papa Snags is listening, becauseI wouldn't would be loves tearing about himself.
Yeah, go ahead and yourself.Adrian. Literally I tried to.
(38:27):
I sent him my last text peck, oh my god, pick my primper,
my last text messages to him.We're like pictures of like what consent
is, What consent is? Whatconsent isn't I did my part on trying
to educate him, but yeah,just knowing that, yeah, weird.
We're gonna forever work hard to makesure you end up where you belong.
(38:52):
And you can keep on lying andkeep on saying all these little things and
make up all your little wives andkeep making your little Facebook salad picture.
But we're doing our very best tomake sure that you end up in jail
where you belong, away from women, away from the society. Psychopath.
(39:12):
Just I can't wait for that day, because it will come. Oh,
it's gonna come. Well, Hailey, thank you so much, and I
am so grateful that you came andtalked to me today. Thank you,
thank you so much. You're amazing, genuinely, I know say to time,
and I am so grateful that wecame in contact. I just I
(39:34):
love your guys' work and you areclearly so incredibly passionate in helping and helping
these victims. And it's like amazing, it really is. You have so
much love, and it's like themom and the mom love, you know
what I mean, Like I ama mom or such a You are a
wonderful human and I am just soglad that I know you. Really Seriously,
(39:58):
please always remember bees are strong,resilient yet vulnerable. We must protect
the bees at all costs, forwithout bees, we as a human race
cannot survive or thrive. So bevigilant, for when you mess with the
bees, you get the Hive,thank you for listening to A Nefarious Nightmare.
(40:28):
Music used in the theme was originallyby ghost Stories Incorporated remixed by Ryan
rc X Murphy. Additional background musicis provided by Epidemic Sound. A Nefarious
Nightmare is scripted, researched, andproduced by Courtney Fenner and Amanda Cronin.
I'm Leany Hobbs and as always,be vigilant for when you mess with the
(40:49):
bees, you get the hive.
And the Farious Nightmare contains themes thatmay be explicit or triggering. For some
specific warnings and disclaimers will be mentionedin the show notes, and the Farious
Nightmare assumes all parties that are mentionedin these cases to be innocent unless proven
guilty in a court of law.Listener discretion is strongly advised. You can
help us grow the show by leavingus a five star written review on Apple
(00:20):
podcast or Spotify, or you canjoin our Patreon for lighthearted bonus content.
I'm Courtney and I'm Amanda, andthis is a bonus episode for a Nefarious
Nightmare. Hey everyone, before weget into it, I'll offer a content
(00:56):
and trigger warning off the top.There will be discussions of sexual violence and
narcissistic abuse, so if you findthat to be triggering, please skip this
episode, as well as any episodein either the Minding the Beehive or Still
Minding the Beehive series. Okay,so now that that is out of the
(01:17):
way, I just want to remindyou all that Courtney and I are going
to take a few weeks off beforeseason six starts. We have really been
hard at work trying to get ontop of prioritizing our mental health, planning
for future events, fine tuning someorganization, cleaning a messages, and researching
for Plenty of episodes in the works, a few which will be updates on
(01:41):
previous cases. Since we are onthe topic of mental health, you may
or may not have noticed Courtney's absencefrom social media the past few days.
I've really been onto her about spreadingherself too thin, and she finally took
my advice. So not to worry. She's still alive, but she's healing
and taking a much needed break.She does have all the fomo. That's
(02:04):
a fear of missing out for allyou fellow millennials out there, so be
sure to fill her in when shereturns to Facebook or whatever social media exists
by then. To be honest,she is currently watching old episodes of Keeping
Up with the Kardashians. You know. It's her and eyes guilty pleasure.
We both love the Kardashians, butwe don't really like to advertise that very
(02:27):
much. But that's probably because it'sdrama filled and we can watch somebody else's
drama instead of our own dramas.Who woo woa hold the phone. I
like the Kardashians. Okay, it'sentertaining. It's like watching a diamond encrusted
train wreck. Just you know whatI'm gonna I'm gonna go before Amanda smacks
me because I'm supposed to be ona quote unquote break. But yeah,
(02:51):
I don't want to get smacked ordon't want to get us another negative review
about how we aren't adept at speechand that we speak still whatever that means.
Okay, bye, So not toworry because you'll be hearing a lot
from her in this episode as sheand Haley chat for today's bonus episode,
Who's Haley? You ask? Well, we invited Haley back to discuss what's
(03:14):
been happening recently. As you allmay remember, Haley told her story in
part five of the original Mining theBeehive series. For more reference, you
can navigate back to season two,episode twelve. We invited her back because
we felt she was an essential partof the most recent series. The one
thing I would like to remind youall is that Haley initially was a sting
(03:37):
operative, but then we find outthat she was actually one of Adrian's victims.
It was such a pleasure to haveher back on and we appreciate Haley
from making time to chat with us. With that, I'm going to let
Courtney take over from here, allright, So thank you very much Haley
for joining me tonight. Just soeverybody knows, Haley was on our original
(04:01):
Minding the Beehive series back in seasontwo, and this was a little over
a year ago. But I reallywanted to bring her back for this special
bonus episode because she is very essentialin the original case and has just been
hugely amazing throughout this whole process asit were. She's still pretty much advocating
(04:23):
and just being a good friend andsupport system for Holly and everybody else.
So yeah, I really wanted toinclude her and bring her on. So
welcome back, Hayley. How areyou doing today? Thank you so nice.
I'm doing pretty good. How areyou? I'm tired, man,
like. I'm sure that you're awarethat we've had a lot happened in the
(04:45):
past couple of weeks, and youknow, I don't sleep, so that's
a fun thing that I don't getto do. But yeah, so yeah,
I'm gonna kind of keep this prettylow key and chill because I know
that the ones that have listened tothe original series would want an update.
(05:06):
But I kind of want to askyou some questions about you. So I
don't know, like, what areyou watching on TV right now? Honestly,
I don't really watch TV. Ijust watch YouTube, and I specifically
watch a podcast called H three Podcasts. I've heard if they know anything about
them, they make very very longpodcasts that are anywhere from like two to
(05:30):
four hours long. So I justdon't have time to watch anything about that.
Now I understand what did they talkabout? Anything and everything? I
don't even know how to describe it. Like each day that they do it
is kind of a little different likeVibe. They have a political podcast,
they have like celebrity drama, Internetdrama, just things that are going on
(05:53):
in general. It's like a wholecrew of people, so it's more about
like them. That's kind of cool. Actually, I might actually have to
look into that. It's it's kindof like a variety show in a way.
Right, Yeah, that's cool.See. Part of the reason why
I asked you is because I've beenso desperately wanting to admit to everybody that
I've been watching the Kardashians, andI, you know, deeply hoping that
(06:15):
somebody else was going to be likeI'm watching the Kardashians, and I was
gonna be like, Okay, Idon't feel like such an ass. So
that's the whole reason why I asked. Now I've I've also been watching,
well not recently, but Yellow Jackets. But I'm gonna definitely check out that
H three podcast. Sometimes I justneed something else, you know what I
(06:39):
mean. I mean, honestly,the Kardashians is that is a good one.
You're making me feel a lot better. I have the hugest like I
was just telling you earlier that Ihave the hugest head of roal crush on
you, but I also have thehugest head of roal crush on Chloe Kardashian.
I just I can't, you knowwhat I mean. And also,
(07:01):
as much as I used to dislikeCourtney Kardashian, I'm kind of starting to
understand where she's coming from. SoI guess maybe it's a yeah, she
she's she's you know, she's there, But I get why she is the
way she is, and you knowthat's that's I'll say about that. So
(07:25):
can you give everybody listening a briefrecap on what had happened to you?
To prompt us to have an interviewin the first place. Yeah, so
I was like sexually coerced by Adrian, and then after I found out about
like the other victims in Holly,then I continue to talk to him.
(07:46):
And I was the one who recordedthe phone call that you guys posted.
Have you heard from him or anyof his family members you know recently?
No? No, no contact?Good? I really wanted to ask.
Okay, so Tatum and I kindof brushed up on this a little bit,
(08:09):
but it's hilarious, so you know, I want to bring it up,
But what's up with the salad?Didn't we need to hear it from
you? Because you made these likesuper funny graphics And I was just like,
wow, we did, like wedid like a campaign even for like
the current series, and this girl, y'all, she gets up and she
(08:31):
takes this campaign and puts salad onthere. I was like, fuck,
yeah, can you please explain thesalad? Oh? Yes. So in
the beginning of like all of usposting our awareness post about Adrian, his
mother decided to make a fake Facebookpage and her profile picture was just a
(08:56):
salad like on a table, andwe we just loved that image. Obviously,
and we it was just so clearthat it was her literally hiding the
whole salad. So we had talkedabout it recently and I was like,
oh my god, I totally forgotthat she did that. That is the
funniest thing ever. So then Idecided to take the ugliest picture of me
(09:20):
and put it in a corner ofthe salad picture that I just looked at
Applebee's salad, and I had itas my pofilo picture for like a month.
Yeah, I think I remember that. At first, I was like,
what is this and I was like, there's I just it's an inside
joke. I'm no kind of partof so yes, no one understood.
(09:43):
I had my family members be like, why do you why do you have
a salad? It's your creature,and then I would have to explain it.
So you are a fellow Aquarius,so you know, we run the
show. We're the best, andwe do things like post salad because why
the funck not like you, youshouldn't be online trolling people and hiding behind
(10:07):
salad. You just don't do that. So if you do, then people
like us are going to troll you. Hiding behind salad. Absolutely, it's
hilarious. How Why wouldn't I dothat? Why wouldn't I? Dude,
you should have like named each andeveryone like you had the cheese you had,
like the lettuce you had, thecruton, you like named them like
you know, Adrian and Stephen andVictorian, tam Yeah, this is you,
(10:35):
this is you? So yeah,can you also we were talking about
earlier, this is unfortunate about thatinvest You had an investigator after we did
your episode, and she decided tellme if I'm wrong, She decided to
quit working with you because you dida podcast episode. Is that meaning?
(10:58):
Yeah? Actually yes, I actuallyI re read the last email that she
sent me because I had just Ihadn't heard anything any updates, nothing about
the case ever since I first reportedit. I got an initial email from
(11:18):
her, and then I sent hersome things that she asked for, and
then I just never heard from heragain. So when Adrian was first arrested,
I just let her know that,you know, he was arrested and
he also still has you know,other cases and whatever going on, and
(11:39):
she kind of like gave me alittle more detail because I asked, okay,
if my case because she told memy case was closed and I was
like, okay, well, like, can I get some more information because
no one let me know that,Like I had no idea that my case
was closed. And then she saidthat she had her like I don't even
know what it's called, like someother type of detective contact Holly's detective and
(12:05):
Kitty's detective, and they did someresearch or whatever, and she basically said,
we saw the episodes of these podcastsof other victims, and unfortunately,
like that could be looked at asI can't remember the word. Hold on,
let me look it up. I'mliterally going to read what she said,
(12:26):
obstruction of justice or impeding on acase. Let me see it's read.
It could be considered collusion. Defenseattorney because since recollection and memories were
compared with other victims, that wouldbe considered collusion. Apparently, Okay,
so I guess I understand you knowwhere she's coming from on that. However,
(12:48):
that shouldn't stop somebody from trying toinvestigate. Am I wrong? Like
I mean absolutely not, not tomentionally with that many and that many people
like you think that all these randompeople from all these different states throughout the
country just randomly came across this andthey're like, you know what, Yeah,
I'm going to join in on this. Absolutely. I had a terrible
(13:09):
experience with him too. He like, no doing that. Yeah, this
is totally not like a serial rapist, victim cult or anything like that.
Like that's y'all, y'all knew eachother prior to any of this, and
we've said that, and we've alsosaid it's just different. How like they're
(13:30):
all describing the same person. Itdidn't know each other from Adam prior to
this. I mean, there's noway you can get how many women now
sixty together to like the same story, Like that's just not possible. And
another thing that bothers me about,Like like again, I want to say,
I understand where she's coming from aboutthe collusion, but if an investigator
(13:52):
calls me literally emails me two daysafter that season ended and says your podcast
has been instrumental, then why wouldyou stop invest That just makes no sense
to me. I'm sorry. Ithink I think that that investigator in Texas,
(14:13):
will we just say, bless herheart? Absolutely failed you, Like
that's I'm so sorry that happened toyou. I mean, what can you
do about it now? It wouldhave been great to have any other outcome
other than this. But hey,well hopefully she hears this episode and you
(14:35):
know, maybe somebody will audit her. I don't know, so tell me
so based off of what I,myself and Tatum have talked to you about,
because I know you haven't had achance to listen to the current series,
which I understand because these are heavycases and not everybody has the emotional
bandwidths to be able to handle that. And I completely like right now,
(14:56):
I'm trying to run far away fromit myself. I got death threats,
guys, but yeah, it's justtoo much sometimes. But I do want
to ask you, first of all, have you ever heard of sex stortion
prior to any of this? No, this was the first time. I
hadn't heard about any of that.Okay, but you have heard of revenge
(15:18):
porn, right, yes? Andyou do know that there's a difference between
the two, right, because noteverybody knows that there's a difference. I
think. I don't mean to putyou on the spot. No, well,
I mean my guests or what I'mwhat I think I know at least
like with revenge porn, excuse me, with revenge porn, like that's something
(15:41):
that they sent to them, likesent to another person, and then they
without their consent, have like distributedit. But I think with the sextortion
stuff, like do they even Idon't even think they know, Like people
are just stealing people's pictures, right, Yeah, So revenge porn is basically
like you've pissed off your ex boyfriend, he wants to get you back,
(16:03):
So those nudes or that sex tape. That basically Kim Kardashian speaking of that,
you know, hoviously he was kindof a victim of revenge porn,
if I recall correctly, there wasthe most hated man on the internet.
He was all about the revenge porn. I would say, revenge porn is,
you know, low carb sextortion,And I don't mean that to be
(16:23):
funny. That's just the best wayI can describe it. Extortion is basically
like you are literally extorting women online, pretty much right up there with trafficking,
except it's digitally. We myself andAmanda constantly say that it is digital
sexual assault. You are taking photoswith or without somebody's knowledge, such as
(16:47):
either they have photos in their phonethat only they have access to, but
you suddenly have the access to itas well. So you're stealing or you've
signed up for some kind of likemembership on a fans and have distributed without
their consent, and then you areblackmailing these victims by saying that you will
(17:07):
take it down unless they or theywon't take it down unless you either pay
them or you give them images ofsomebody else. So it's one of those
things that it's a serious crime thatis not being taken seriously by certain senators
over in the area that we discussed, even though they have made a law
(17:30):
criminalizing it to the fullest extent.They are ignoring these women. And the
thing about sex stortion is you couldliterally be innocent, and I'm not trying
to say this to scare anybody,but you could literally have taken an accidental
photo of yourself brushing your hair,right, This actually happened to one of
(17:52):
the victims brushing her hair, lookin the mirror. She was getting ready
to go to work, and herfriend took a picture of her topless and
it fell into the wrong hands,and they're blackmailing her with it. This
extortionist has gone as far as deepfaking miners as young as two years old
into sexual images for distribution online.So I don't even understand. Yeah,
(18:18):
how do you get into that?How? What? So, the perpetrator
that we believe and I'm not aboutto say his name on here yet,
but like the perpetrator we believe issomebody who was arrested with priors for pleasuring
himself in front of miners a fewtimes. They finally had deported him.
(18:41):
We don't know for one hundred percentfact, but we do know with a
ninety nine point ninety nine percent fact, and it's somebody that they the victims
that we spoke with, has beensaying from day one, but we just
needed that proof, you know.With all that though, That's the thing
about sextortion, and that's the reasonwhy I wanted to ask is because unfortunately,
(19:03):
not very many people are aware ofit, or they're not aware of
the difference between that and you know, we're bench porn and it's serious and
basically, I hate to say it, but we all could be put under
like in jeopardy of it, andso I'm really trying to raise as much
awareness about it as possible because youknow, you never know who it could
(19:26):
be. And that person is relentlessand he will continue doing it until he's
put behind bars and it's just sick. So but yeah, that's I didn't
mean to go into all that,but like, no, I guess it
wanted to ask. Yeah, it'sinsane, right, but I just wanted
to ask you. I was basicallysaying, based off of what we have
(19:48):
told you, you know, asfar as like the entire series, which
started with the sextortion it was phaseone. You know, what did you
think do you think that there couldhave been a way that the senator,
(20:12):
for example, should have listened andtaken it seriously, or do you think
there's anything that you, as somebodythat survived Adrianville Dusia, might think that
we could you know, add ingoing forward if we were to do another
series, or really generally, whatdid you think of the series? Even
though you haven't heard it, you'veheard of it. So yeah, I
(20:34):
mean it's obviously insane. That's allI can really say about it is I
don't understand why anyone won't why anyonewould want to do that in the first
place, or where you get todo to do that. And yeah,
I had never heard about any otherlike stories or anything, or I haven't
(20:55):
known anyone that had any of thatsex stortion like things happened to them.
So yeah, I mean awareness anumber one is a big thing and teaching
people what it is. And Ido like how you've already you know,
tried to think that distinction of howdifferent this is, and I think it's
(21:17):
I mean, it sounds like it'sa more like a newer thing to be
happening, and with all of ourlike technology getting nuts nowadays, I can't.
Oh my god, it's scary.It really is. It is,
and it is ridiculous that people don'ttake any of this kind of stuff seriously.
(21:37):
I mean, it's very clear thatthere aren't any ops, detectives,
centators, anyone who gives a fuckabout these things that women are going through,
and they just love to minimize itand ignore it and just be like,
well, it's obviously not that bigvideo, so let's go I don't
know, it's attacked this random persondown the street instead, or let's not
(21:59):
protect the school that's getting shoot upinstead, Like exactly, they're wasting I
don't know what they're wasting their timeand resources on, but they need to
listen to people because these stories,especially with sexual assault, and there are
so many like big celebrity stories thatare coming out, and it's like,
I don't know, yeah, findingout about what's his name from that seventies
(22:22):
show, we're finding out about thatone. That's not shocking to me about
Russell brand. I mean, allof these people are coming out of the
woodwork, and it's a lot ofit is because these women were afraid to
report, simple as they were afraidto report, or they felt like if
they reported, it wouldn't be takenseriously. Because the truth of the matter
is, it's not it's just someof the rug our lawmakers, our law
(22:48):
enforcement, they don't take it seriously. They think, oh, well,
they'll be okay in a couple ofyears. No, they're dealing with like
PTSD, they're dealing with trauma,they're dealing with mental health and depression and
body dysmorphia, all this kind ofstuff, and absolutely with sex solution.
I mean, anybody could be avictim of it, and its just and
(23:10):
that's still insanely violating. Yeah,do they not understand that. I can't
even imagine. That would make mefeel so incredibly unsafe. Yeah, it's
it's, oh my gosh, it'sterrifying, Like what these people can do
now, the one that we're dealingwith, and I'm not afraid to say
it, he's not that smart.But there are there are cases. I've
(23:33):
been trying to talk to the FBI. We have contacted in our poll,
we have contact because the person hasbeen deported. We have contacted so many
people. We've contacted Senator Lynn Waltz, who is ignored and not commented on
anything we've said. We have beenapplying so much pressure. It's really profound
(23:55):
to me that a senator in Fremont, where this is happening, who had
created a law to fully penalize somebodyfor this. It's straight up ignoring twenty
or more women. But in themeantime, Kay Granger was willing to listen
to me, and Kay Granger isin Texas. How fun stuff is that?
(24:19):
Does that? I mean? AndI'm not saying I'm not saying that
all law enforcement are bad, notby a long shot. What I am
saying is that it is their dutyto protect and serve, whether they are
the FBI, whether they are policeofficers, whatever. And part of protecting
and serving is doing your job andtaking women seriously when they are complaining and
(24:44):
reporting about sextortion, and especially whenyou've got civilians busting their ass and saying,
oh, I've got all the evidence. You don't have to do anything.
Here's the evidence, just go getthe guy. And they're like,
no, I'll wait till I havea slow day, and they never It's
insane to me, like they willonly do something if you do all the
work for them, and they stillwon't nothing. Really yeah, exactly,
(25:07):
exactly, yeah, or I don'tknow, They'll always find some excuse.
It is insane. That is allwe've seen. It's just disappointment after disappointment
after disappointment. It is absolutely that'sall I can keep saying. It is
insane. I can't believe it.There is a significant amount of people who
have been victimized by a sextortion whoend up unliving themselves. The one case
(25:33):
that has always stuck with me wasthe case of Amanda Todd, where she
was sixteen years old and was avictim of I would say it was a
mixture of revenge porn as extortion,but nonetheless it was sextortion because she was
a miner and she was victimized forthree years and at the age of sixteen,
she unlived herself her perpetrator. Ididn Coban was not caught and apprehended
(25:59):
for ten years. That sixteen yearold old girl did not live to see
justice. There is a case herein Texas where somebody had unlived himself because
he was a victim of sex stortion. What is it going to take for
these people to take these men andwomen seriously? You know, was insane
(26:21):
ten years, ten years until theyfinally caught an apprehended Iden Coban. That
must have been agonizing for that family. Yeah, Carol todd Is. I
mean, she's obviously got a littlepiece now. But they didn't even if
I remember correctly, they didn't evenfully punish him like they gave him I
(26:41):
want to say, maybe five orten years or something, despite the fact
that this sixteen year old and alivedherself because she was going through it,
because she was victimized by a fullgrown man extorting her photos online. But
these people Lynn Waltz, for example, I want to just ignore these women's
(27:02):
cries for help. I just don'tget it. But sorry, I did
not mean to get all passionate aboutthat, but it's just it's a real
problem. It's a real problem.And yeah, and obviously this person really
wants to get away with it becausehe's going to continue sending harassing emails to
people. He's going to continue harassingthese women. He's now sending death threats,
(27:25):
and it's just like cool, cool, cool, are you going to
get on the plane and fly allthe way across like the Pacific and come
get me? I mean, becausebecause I'm calling you out for exposing women
and children, like, yeah,you should have thought about that before.
Helloah yeah, so yeah, it'sfucking crazy, right, So I don't
understand. I really I wish that. I don't know, there was like
(27:51):
because you know what's crazy in thehair industry, Like you have to continue
to take classes, you have tocontinue to get educated hair right his hair.
Why wouldn't like law enforcement or whoeverthe hell else? Why wouldn't they
have continual education on different things?Right? I mean I think especially with
like with the email about us whatever, cruding? Is that what it was?
(28:18):
Yeah? Like for myself, Iknow we talked about on my episode
last year that I didn't realize thatI was a victim. I knew that
what I went through was really weirdand really awful, and it made me
feel so incredibly uncomfortable and it hascaused me a lot of pain and suffering
(28:40):
throughout this time. But I hadno idea in the beginning that it was
like sexual assault, and because Iwas never educated on consent, on the
specific specifics of these things. Andeven now, like so, at my
job, I work with a bunchof younger men and they listened to still
(29:03):
Rogane and different podcasts that are similarto that. And this morning, I
literally I came home from work earlytoday because I couldn't stop shaking and crying
because of what this podcast was talkingabout. Yeah, and it's been over
a year since what happened to mehappened to me, and I feel like
I've mentioned this a million times,like my incident wasn't even the worst of
(29:26):
it, Like it wasn't that terrible, but it has still affected me this
much, and it's still a yearand some change later, still affecting me.
And this podcast was actually talking aboutRussell Brand and all his stuff,
and they just talk about it solightly and just laugh and joke and whatever,
(29:48):
and it's like, no one fuckingcares about these women. It's not
funny. No one fucking cares right, and I just sat like I was
just devastated hearing all of this stuff. And that's how so many people think
about it. And they don't theydon't learn what consent is. They don't
learn about all these different things thatcould be happening and could be very negatively
(30:12):
affecting women and their lives, andthey just joke about it because they have
no idea what's going on. They'renot going through it. I mean,
as if I'm not saying obviously,of course men go through my sexual assault
too, but basically it's more womenright in general, let's you know.
So it's just it's really disheartening andI wish that people would just stop thinking
(30:37):
that it's just a little like okay, get over it, okay whatever it
was just like everyone goes through thatwhatever. Okay, that wasn't actually sexual
assault, like you know what Imean. It's just it's so tiring and
hearing all of these cases, andyou know, all the celebrities that have
been in the news and stuff lately, it's just so tiring to hear all
(31:00):
of these dumb opinions like I'm sorry, they're dumb as fuck. You guys
are dumb as fucked if you thinkthat it's a joke, if you think
that these women are just lying andpulling these stories out of their asses.
Like I've seen so many people postabout the what's his name from that seventy
show, whatever his name is,just like, you know, we all
(31:21):
know how hard it is to getsomeone convicted of rape, and for him
to be convicted for thirty fucking years. Yeah, Like and they're still just
joking about it and like, well, probably wasn't true. It's wild and
it's not fair. I mean,I am very, very glad that he's
finally seeing his retribution for everything thathe has done. But it's it's almost
(31:45):
like it's too little, too late, Like if they had just listened and
saw all the signs and were alot more aware when it all started happening
to these women and took them seriouslyin the first places, like this could
have been lock and key a longtime ago. But I don't understand why
(32:07):
people want to drag this kind ofshit out. It's not something that should
be dragged out. It's it's it'sruining lives. And they're like, well,
it takes time. We understand thatthe process takes time, but when
you're sitting on your ass eating adonut, not doing fucking shit until somebody's
like, oh, well, theblood's on your hands now, and then
they do something. It's not agood look. I mean, I'm sorry.
(32:28):
So I'm very glad that we sharein the same kind of passion about
this, because I'm beginning to thinkthat I'm going crazy. But I don't
know. I just I'm really tiredof seeing people who are human, that
are that have beating hearts and emotionsand feelings just being thrown to the wayside,
(32:50):
you know, And I get it. Like I just realized, like
over just over a year ago thatwhen I was in my situation, I
was actually assaulted. I didn't knowthat that's what had happened to me until
I really thought about it, andI was like, holy shit, I
was raped, right, But mysituation is also not as serious as some
(33:10):
others, and it's more serious thansome others, and it's not a pissing
contest. It's the fact that weall are humans with beating hearts and emotions
and feelings and passions and things thatwe want to do when we grow up
and things that we want to teachour children. Whether we've been in sex
work or not, whether we've beenin a cult or not, whether we
have been victimized by Adrian Bill tosay or not. It doesn't matter.
(33:32):
Treat us like human beings, youknow, oh look at us. This
is supposed to be a lighthearted fun. So do you have any goals pertaining
to advocacy and if so, doyou like what efforts do you think that
everybody should employ to persuade things likelaw enforcement and anybody else in the higher
(33:57):
up to take those of us withbig voice is serious? I mean,
I think the more of the peopletalk about it the better. Of course,
just having more open conversations about it, because honestly, I mean,
I see how hard everyone works totry to get something actually like setting stone,
(34:17):
like wall wise or whatever the hell, and it just not to say
that it's not worth it, becauseobviously it is sometimes, but it's very
fucking tiring, yea, and aton of disappointment after disappointment, and I
know that. I mean, Ican't change anything. The most that I
(34:39):
can do is do what I've beendoing, like talking openly about what happened
and having these conversations. And ifI hear people having these conversations and it's
like, okay, tons of themisinformation. Then now I'm comfortable as a
person to go up and actually saysomething like you don't interviewed myself, But
(35:02):
as far as me like contacting mylocal whoever, I mean, I just
don't. I don't want to dothat. Don't even if we've been the
energy right, even if we haveto like liaise somebody to do it for
us, like, just do it, right, I completely get it.
(35:24):
Yeah, the most I can dois just keep spreading awareness. Yes,
I do know, and you doan amazing job at it. I'm always
watching. I know that sounded reallycreepy, but I'm always watching. I'm
always watching. I can see youbeginning to look at out what was that
one thing? Something feels sketchy orwhatever You're like in the in the stairs,
(35:46):
and oh my god, I canthink of it. I'm kind of
sketched out. Yeah, kind ofsketched out right, you know. Damn
well, everybody's gonna laugh at thatone if they know what we're talking about.
I don't know if I should givethat inside joke away, but that's
okay, or maybe I should.I don't know. So, do you
(36:07):
have anything that you'd like for listenersto know, and any advice that you'd
like to give. I mean,for anyone who has, you know,
dealt with shit law enforcement and youknow, was scared to report and did
and ended up being awful, justknow that I'm there with you. And
(36:27):
I mean, I don't want todiscourage people from reporting and from doing these
things, because it is so importantand it's not for you know, the
faint of heart. I mean justseeing you know, the other women involved
in what they've had to do withtheir cases is so it's just so tiring.
I commend them every day for stickingto it and working so fucking hard
(36:52):
on their own to get all ofthese things done because the people that are
supposed to be there for them arenot. And I mean, I just
hope that people's you know, viewof reporting and like victim blaming and like
why didn't she say anything earlier?Why didn't you go report? Look around
(37:13):
to look at all of us womenwho are complaining and crying for help,
for anybody to get this man offthe streets, and no one listens right
like like they're gonna take you know, honestly, it is just astounding.
And I am so incredibly sorry foranybody that had to go through anything like
(37:35):
that, and I love you andI am I am with you like I
am. Just it is. Itis so incredibly hard. It is.
That's all I can say. Itis so incredibly hard. You're just mentally
exhausted all the time from all thesethings, and it's crazy. You are
amazing, You are no you.Now we're gonna fight on air. Okay,
(38:04):
do you have any messages to anyperpetrators you want to tell somebody go
fuck themselves? Oh? Yeah,absolutely, O course sure. I'm sure
mister Papa Snags is listening, becauseI wouldn't would be loves tearing about himself.
Yeah, go ahead and yourself.Adrian. Literally I tried to.
(38:27):
I sent him my last text peck, oh my god, pick my primper,
my last text messages to him.We're like pictures of like what consent
is, What consent is? Whatconsent isn't I did my part on trying
to educate him, but yeah,just knowing that, yeah, weird.
We're gonna forever work hard to makesure you end up where you belong.
(38:52):
And you can keep on lying andkeep on saying all these little things and
make up all your little wives andkeep making your little Facebook salad picture.
But we're doing our very best tomake sure that you end up in jail
where you belong, away from women, away from the society. Psychopath.
(39:12):
Just I can't wait for that day, because it will come. Oh,
it's gonna come. Well, Hailey, thank you so much, and I
am so grateful that you came andtalked to me today. Thank you,
thank you so much. You're amazing, genuinely, I know say to time,
and I am so grateful that wecame in contact. I just I
(39:34):
love your guys' work and you areclearly so incredibly passionate in helping and helping
these victims. And it's like amazing, it really is. You have so
much love, and it's like themom and the mom love, you know
what I mean, Like I ama mom or such a You are a
wonderful human and I am just soglad that I know you. Really Seriously,
(39:58):
please always remember bees are strong,resilient yet vulnerable. We must protect
the bees at all costs, forwithout bees, we as a human race
cannot survive or thrive. So bevigilant, for when you mess with the
bees, you get the Hive,thank you for listening to A Nefarious Nightmare.
(40:28):
Music used in the theme was originallyby ghost Stories Incorporated remixed by Ryan
rc X Murphy. Additional background musicis provided by Epidemic Sound. A Nefarious
Nightmare is scripted, researched, andproduced by Courtney Fenner and Amanda Cronin.
I'm Leany Hobbs and as always,be vigilant for when you mess with the
(40:49):
bees, you get the hive.
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