S5 E12 - Still Minding The Beehive - Surviving Sex Crimes, Part 12 - Jennifer - A Nefarious Nightmare - True Crime

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
And the various Nightmare contains themes thatmay be explicit or triggering. For some
specific warnings and disclaimers will be mentionedin the show notes. And the Farious
Nightmare assumes all parties that are mentionedin these cases to be innocent unless proven
guilty in a court of law.A listener discretion is strongly advised. You
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(00:20):
Apple Podcast or Spotify, or youcan join our Patreon for lighthearted bonus content.
With this Welcome to season five.You finally realize that your whole childhood,
nobody protected you the way they shouldhave. And as a daughter I
could forgive, but as a mother, I never will. And that's from

(00:41):
a TikTok video at anyone, butAutumn, I won't let Payne turn my
heart into something ugly. I willshow you that surviving it can be beautiful,
Christie Anne Martin. Today we continuewith phase three of this series with
Jennifer's story. While Jennifer has alwaysbeen very kind and always has a beaming

(01:03):
smile on her face, deep downshe's continuing a journey of self discovery and
seeking peace and justice. She opensup and talks about how she survived being
assaulted as a young child by asibling and his friend, and how to
this day she's searching for answers,answers that some of those closest to her

(01:23):
are unfortunately not willing to give her. Now, please be advised, anyone
who's a victim of a sex crime, no matter what time, age,
and even what the extent of itis, has every right to pursue research,
gain answers, and takes some semblanceof power back your body, your

(01:45):
choice. With that, I'm CourtyFenner and I'm Amanda Cronin, and in
a various nightmare presents still Minding theBeehive Surviving Sex Crimes Part twelve. As

(02:20):
you all know by now, wedive extensively into sexual assault and statistics,
and we discuss various forms of sexcrimes. We even search and report on
what to look for, how toidentify grooming and even psychological impacts. And
we also dive deep into certain mentaldisorders such as sociopathy and narcissism, and
we talk about incest. But onequestion does stand out in our minds,

(02:46):
one that is hard to tackle butmust not be excluded. What if the
perpetrator is another child. The questionis a very challenging one to answer,
as we have done our own researchhave found it to be exactly that a
challenge, But while challenging, it'snot impossible to find. We wonder if

(03:07):
maybe these reports and statistics are hardto find because since sex crimes is already
considered to be somewhat of a taboosubject, it's that much more taboo when
it's minor on minor sexual violence,we get it. Nobody wants to think
about it. Nobody even wants toimagine the what IF's. What if my

(03:31):
child is being abused by their sibling, or what if my babysitter's fourteen year
old son is doing inappropriate things tomy child. Some might think, well,
the parents seems fine, I seeno red flags there. They've got
it all under control and their kidisn't going to do anything. It's as
though we all want the answers,but at the same time, people might

(03:53):
unintentionally avoid talking about it in hopesthat they can ignore the problem away.
But it is a problem and itcan't be ignored. There has got to
be a way to see signs ofgrooming and red flags that someone could perpetrate
sexual abuse no matter what the ageis. With this, we have to

(04:14):
see the statistics signs of grooming andadults and try to equate that in the
perspective of a minor, because justlike with adult perpetrators, it can be
easy to miss or overlook these signsin children. However, with the proper
tools and education, it's not impossible. So you're going to attempt to give

(04:35):
you all the red flags to lookfor and hopefully we can prevent this from
happening in the future. Defend Innocencedot org defines the term child on child
sexual abuse or COXA as sexual activitybetween children that occur without consent, without
equality, which is mentally, physicallyor in age, or as a result

(04:58):
of physical or emotional coercion, whichwill be discussed in a minute. What
this means is that a pow ourdifference exists between the two children, whether
that is an age, size orability. The first thing that needs to
be understood, and you will heara lot about this in today's case,
is if you are a parent ora caregiver, While you do not want

(05:20):
to even think that your child couldpotentially be a victim of sexual assault by
another child, or you don't evenwant to live in a world where a
scenario exists that a child can bea sex offender. That we do indeed
live in a world in which thatdoes exist, and you have to ask

(05:41):
some questions though. First off,is your child exhibiting signs of being molested
by a trusted caregiver or parent.While we never want to blame someone who
has been victimized themselves, there isevidence that supports the fact that offenders often
reoffend, and that offenders were oftengroomed and victimized themselves as a child.

(06:05):
They will often, not always,but often mimic things that happen to them
at home or at school. Ifyou look at the sheer fact that miners
are always in an educational setting tobegin with, from around four to five
to about seven to eighteen, it'sbecause education is crucial for an ever growing

(06:29):
and evolving brain. Brains are literalsponges for information and retaining memory, which
is why those ages are ideal forgoing to school. Unfortunately, when that
brain is still developing, it retainsbad information and memory as well. One
sign to look for in a childis to see how they act out.

(06:49):
Are they suddenly having violent outbursts.Are they afraid to be around someone?
Now, shyness and anxiety is commonin children, but what we mean is
is one child actively avoiding somebody elseand in a serving way, like crying
and throwing a huge fit at themere presence of someone or acting different and

(07:11):
even quietly fearful of one person moreso than anyone else. Now, there
are physical signs to pay attention toas well. Are you seeing blood stains
randomly in places that shouldn't be havingblood stains? Are they mimicking inappropriate acts
with other people or at play?While these things don't always suggest the worst
case scenario, they often do.Finally, is your child telling you straight

(07:35):
up that they've been handled inappropriately?Are they telling you that they do not
like somebody but can't give you anykind of reason why. Even if you
don't want to believe them, youreally should. It's better to take an
accusation seriously, nip it in thebud, even and find out later that
it's untrue, as you can handlethe repercussions later, then to ignore it

(08:00):
and find out as they grow thatwhat they said was factual, as you
cannot change the trajectory as they age. Always believe someone when they say this
happened to them. One thing thatwe want to stress is that when your
child comes to talk to you aboutanything, listen and engage with empathy.
Be their biggest support, love them, and advocate for them. Because children

(08:26):
cannot do it on their own.Children rely on their parents to fight for
them for their peace, their protection, and their rights, and this includes
actively protecting them from what this shittyworld will take from them. The following
is an example of what a parentavoiding the truth looks like the other day.

(08:48):
Another dollar. Ooh, I betterhurry. School is almost out and
I need to pick Jason up fromkindergarten. Hey, what's wrong, honey?
Mom? Did you know about honey? I'm so sorry, but can
you make this quick? I haveto pick up your little brother. Did
you know, honey spit it out? Did you know what had happened to

(09:11):
me? That I was sexually assaulted? Honey? We've talked about this.
Is it really necessary to rehash this, mom? Yes, we really need
to rehash young lady, how manytimes do I have to tell you that
they were just kids? You werejust a kid, You played with them,
they did their time, They werepunished and we settled it. Well
more can you possibly want? Mom? I am not okay and I've tried

(09:35):
to tell you, but you're refusingto understand. Sometimes I don't think you
care about me? How dare you? Do you not understand what this has
done to your father and I?What about your baby brother? Do you
not care about how this could possiblyaffect him? Shouldn't you be over this
by now? Mom? I wassix years old. I'm experiencing so much

(09:56):
sadness and weirdness. I still don'tunderstand, and I need you, mom,
And instead of being here for me, you're more focused on the two
monsters that did this thing to meand our monsters. Oh good lord,
you're delusional. How many times doI have to say that you were all
kids, you all did this.I don't want to hear any more about
it. End of discussion. Iguess she doesn't care about me. I

(10:20):
guess she hates me. I guessI'm a liar to her. I hate
that this happened. I don't knowwhat to do. I love her and
I believe her, But shouldn't shejust be over this by now? Honey?
Cheer up? Smile, You're beautifulwith that smile. Don't let people
see your secret written all over yourface. They'll just take advantage of you.

(10:41):
I'm sorry for getting so mad,honey, I love you. Why
don't you go for a walk ormaybe call your friends. They always make
you feel better. Oh, Ihave to go. Your little brother is
waiting. I guess I'm just goingto have to keep smiling and pretend everything
is perfect. Okay, mom,thank you. When a child experiences abuse

(11:03):
from another child, it can bejust as traumatic as if it were done
by an adult. Unfortunately, thistype of abuse often goes unreported. Sometimes
adults dismiss it as kids being kids, or there may be a fear about
what will happen to the children involvedif the abuse is known. It's important

(11:24):
to understand that both children involved inthis situation need help. The child who
is being abused deserves the appropriate careto prevent lifelong trauma, which is unfortunately
common amongst survivors of child sexual abuse. They may also experience of various symptoms

(11:45):
as a result. Additionally, thechild who is engaged in harmful sexual behavior
or HSB also needs assistance. Byseeking help from a license medical or mental
health professional, they can work throughthese inappropriate behaviors and reduce the likelihood of
engaging in HSB once again. Remember, as you will hear in Jennifer's recollection

(12:09):
of events, providing support and guidanceto both children involved is crucial in helping
them navigate through this difficult situation.And to the day of writing for this
episode, Jennifer is still working toutilize FOIA, which is the Freedom of
Information Act, to obtain records andreports on her case. In the meantime,

(12:33):
she wanted to speak out and finallytell her story because, as you
will hear, she has been silencedso much about this. Let's not silence
her anymore. Let's instead listen towhat she has to say. My name
is Jennifer. I am from Texas. I love anything art or arts.

(12:58):
I love to redo and vamp upfurniture, and I love to paint and
doodle and just I do it withmy children, and my mother does it
with me as well. She didit with her Mother's a big long run
of our artists and family, Iguess, but that's very enjoyable. And

(13:22):
I'm obsessed with birds, so Imake ring up bird noises. The absolutely
them means I hate I try notto hate things, but man, things
I hate. I cringe. Idon't know why. I can't explain it.
At Ben Stiller, I can't standit. I don't. I'm sure
he's a nice person, but hemakes me cringe. So that's so.

(13:48):
Yeah, that's something about it.I'm sorry. I'm sorry about it.
My bad dude. I'm sure you'rea really nice person. But I was
a survivor of a sibling sexual abusecrime with a friend when I was eight.

(14:11):
The year that it happened was twothousand and one, and it happened
in Irving, Texas, and itjust happened once over a summer at my
dad's apartment. Prior to the abuse, Josh and I had a distant sibling

(14:33):
relationship I didn't have much of whenwe were super close, basically brothers sister
arguments, just never really on thesame wavelength or really got along. And
Cannon, the second abuser, Ididn't. I really didn't have much of
a relationship with him, honestly becausehe was newer to the picture. He

(14:56):
was my dad's newer girl friend's son, so he was really connecting with my
brother as they were both boys.He was a little older so my brother
was connecting with him and trying toimpress him at sea, but I was
more passing here and there. Imean, he would like be flirty and
kind of friendly with me, butwe didn't have much of a of a
relationship beforehand. I was eight yearsold and my brother was five years older

(15:24):
than me. He was thirteen orfourteen, I believe. I believe he
was thirteen and except and he wouldtrip fourteen later on after the summer ended.
But and then Cannon was sixteen.I've been angry for a very long
time, and I'm working on that. So because I'm trying not to.
I'm trying to work on my anchornow because it's avoiding and being angry isn't

(15:50):
getting me anywhere. So when Iwas younger, I wasn't noticing these flat
red flags. But thinking back now, I I constantly see red flags.
I during the summer. That Ican think back on was when Lee,
his mother was around. Cannon alwaysgave me a lot of attention and would

(16:11):
people really flirty with me and justreal friendly, and I just thought that
was really cool because he was older. But at the time I didn't see
it much of as a red flag. As I thought it was kind of
flattering, but I was constantly leftalone, so I usually like would seek
out attention and get there it wouldenjoy the attention that I would get anyways,

(16:33):
because I was just constantly left alone. So another red flag I would
pick up on is his mom wouldalways want to take me shopping and she
would always just be like, ifyou're good, bloom as you're good,
you know, we'll go get presenceand she'll tell me because she'd always tell
me how pretty I was and Iwant to get me a doll and stuff.
It was weird, like thinking aboutit now and how she her tone

(16:56):
was with me, and like itwas just the more I read into it
later on in the room, likeoh, okay, she was covering up
for him, because I find outlater down the road she was aware and
I was not his first and onlyvictims. I definitely think that she knew
what her son was doing or hadan idea, and I don't think she

(17:18):
knew how to handle it. Andhe was already in her custody because of
that because of sexual issues already,and so yeah, I think she was
just in case either they were goingto happen or she knew they were going
to happen. I don't know,but it was more of a hey,
as long as you're good and quiet, I'll keep buying new gifts, which

(17:40):
it was always so uncomfortable because theywere always dolls. And in the end,
when everything went down, he endedup like owing money to me,
and so my mom, weirdly enough, would get excited and be like,
oh, look we got another checkin the mail. Let's go shopping,
and we'd always get a doll.It was so weird how it all ended

(18:02):
up lining up. Oh, Igot together and I ended up beating brad
Stalls and I had like all thecollections all because someone would be money because
I was abused. It's so weird. It's so weird. And the I
forget what dolls are called, butthat my daughter used to have a ton
of them. And then they hadall the like creepy stripper pantios and like

(18:22):
secret messaging and stuff. And Iwas like, well, oh my gosh,
when you know, brat Stalls werealready borderline. Now we're wearing stripper
clothes just but it's like, youknow, you go back and forth,
You're like, oh, they're justexpressing themselves. And they're like, Okay,
why are they dressing like this aslittle girls clothes? When I wanted
these little girls clothes when I waslittle. And it's just like so crazy,

(18:45):
stuck in a hypocritical, terrible,sexualizing kid moment always the way my
brain works, like I feel likeit was a different lifetime. It feels
like a different person. Like yes, it feels like me, but I

(19:07):
feel like I'm so disassociated from it. And that's what I do in times
of trauma, and it's hard tolike it affects me now in my now
life because I don't want to disassociate, you know, I want to enjoy
my life, and I just seedisassociate in times and you're just like,
pull back in, pull back in. You know, you don't need to
fade out, because I remember fadingout so often in my childhood and random

(19:29):
things come back to me like,oh, I don't have to do that
anymore. But it just yeah,it's it's it's weird to have these moments
of just kind of like a that'sa raven like flash of just oh trauma,
Oh that's what happened. Oh,and it's just but it's like a
it's like a movie. Honestly,it's like a It's like a flash of
a trailer of something you kind ofremember, but it's like I watched it

(19:53):
from the outside. I don't knowthat was my coping mechanism or not.
But anytime I have memories or thinkback of a moment, it's literally like
a movie, a nightmare movie.But but I think that's how I can.
I can. I can disassociate withit, like when i'm you know,
maybe having a good night at drinkingor something. It may come out

(20:14):
and I'd get a lot more emotionalwith it, but I can usually stay
pretty emotionless with it. I alwaysthink about when I'm walking, and I
can it doesn't matter how I feel. You know, you've got to think
about other people too, and everybodyhas a ship day. I'm having a
ship day. But if I canmake someone else feel better just because I

(20:34):
smiled, you know, that'll makeme feel better too, and it'll the
smile slowly turns genuine. I've hadso many people stop me when I'm just
zoning out, not realizing I'm smilingbecause I've been taught to smile for so
long that you know, smile iswelcoming, and I have you have a
glow about you, you have anenergy about you that's welcoming. You need
to smile. I've just been taughtthat forever forever, and it got annoying

(21:00):
to me that I made it.I tried to make it good again because
I had so many people stopping themlike, hey, you have such a
nice smile. Thank you. Youknow, I see you smile and I
appreciate it. I'm like, youknow what, yeah, because I was
going about to start, I wasjust about to start having a restling bitch
face all the time because I'm soannoyed with people coming to me and saying

(21:21):
and dumping their problems on me andtalking to me because I'm so welcoming.
But that is why I do it, because someone saw me and said,
thank you. I just you makemy day better because you just smile all
the time and you're just always fallsomething's positive. I'm like, I can
keep being positive. I'm like,that's why a smile that you know,
it ends up being genuine at theend of the day, because take it

(21:41):
till you make it. It soundsdunn but it does come through, and
so I just, yeah, Ijust try and put it on as much
as I can, because even becausepeople do catch me when I'm not smiling,
they're like, hey, what's thematters? So it's like, oh,
even if I have ourstling bitch face, they're still gonna ask me a
problem and they're gonna still talk tome, so I might as well be
smiling. So and I've gotten betterat being able to be vocal about what

(22:06):
I want to be able to beapproached and not. I definitely feel like
it's it's a coping mechanism. Ifeel like two different people at times.
I feel ice cold and then Ifeel so emotional, emotional all the time.
I feel everyone's feelings. It's likea switch, and I know when
I need to put that switch on, and I know when I do it,

(22:26):
just almost in an evil way,feeling like I don't, I don't,
I don't want to feel this way, so I'm going to turn on
the petty switch. You know.It's it's It does feel like a one
hundred percent of coping mechanism because Iknow I can be too nice, but
I don't know how to balance itout too much, so I just turn
into a bitch. I can eitherbe way way too kind or way way

(22:52):
too bitchy. It's almost like there'sno middle. It's so weird. I
am the most empathetic person, yetI can be the most cold and ruthless
bitch. You know. It throwsmy husband off. It's like you were
one ruthless, petty bitch, butyou're not at home. Like, I
don't get it. It's not you, but it is. Oh it is.

(23:12):
I'm like, yeah, he'll fuckwith me, but I just never
want to heard anybody. So I'mjust all blark. But no, okay.
So short version of what happened.I was sexual abused when I was
eight years old by my older brotherwho was thirteen, and his sixteen year

(23:36):
old friend, who was my father'sgirlfriend's son. Long version. It was
it was my father's summer to havethe kids, so we were at his
apartment in Urbane for a couple ofmonths, and my father had a newer
girlfriend in the picture and seemed tobe perfect timing as she had a son

(24:00):
as well, just a couple ofyears older than my brother, so he
would have someone to hang out withand bond during the time he was there,
and Lee, the new girlfriend,could bond with me. She was
very complimentary right away, from fromthe start. She always said how cute
I was, and played with myhair and was quick to give me gifts

(24:22):
or take me shopping for dolls aslong as I was good. Josh and
Cannon were damn near inseparable anytime theywere around each other, and I caught
them a few times in Josh's roomchecking out some old porno magazines they found
in the shed, and was slippingthrough a few times with me and showed
me a few pictures, but Ididn't really understand it, so mostly they

(24:45):
would play video games and just hangout. It wasn't until about halfway through
the summer when we were all atthe apartment one day and my dad,
Lee, his girlfriend, Canon,Josh, and myself and Lee and my
dad decided to go out for abit on a little date. It was
still daytime, so just going outfor a quick afternoon and Josh and Cannon

(25:10):
would babysit while they went out.I honestly thought nothing of it, and
Lee had convinced my dad to go. Once they left, it was probably
about five or ten minutes after orso after and I was sitting on the
floor in the living room next tothe larger sofa coloring on the oath,

(25:30):
coloring on the coffee table, andthe TV was on, playing infolk commercials
or infommercials, and so the backroom had better channels, but the TV
was smaller, and it was inmy father's room, which was in the
backroom, and so we weren't supposedto really be back there, and so
it was it was a lot ofcommercials that we would watched. So Cannon

(25:55):
and Josh walked into the living roomfrom the connected kitchen, and Cannon and
sits behind me on the sofa,and Josh it's farther away on the love
seat in front of me. Iremember seeing their faces and thinking they look
like they were applying something, andthen Cannon leaned up to me, all
smiles and just said, hey,Jin, why don't you have sex with

(26:18):
us? And I'm coloring, andI just I kind of freeze, and
I look up at Josh and he'sright in front of me in the love
seat, and he's fidgeting and he'snot really saying much, but he's waiting
for my answer. And I don'treally look at Cannon, but I just

(26:38):
say no, and I continue coloring, and Cannon scoots him closer and he's
smirking, and he's like over myshoulder, and he's being real friendly,
like with his body language, likeit's all fun and games and it's all
cool, but he's got a sterntone and he says, come on,
have sex, and I just continuecolor and I'm kind of just ignoring him,

(27:00):
and I said no, and Cannonpulls away from me and he faces
Josh and he kind of leans backlike he's getting fed up, and then
he says, very friendly. Helooks straight at Josh. He says,
if she doesn't have sex with us, I won't be your friend anymore.
And Josh immediately like jumps on,jumps up, and he rushes to me
on his knees and says, Jin, please just have sex with us,

(27:25):
or he won't be my friend anymore. Please just do this. So I
start kind of coloring more aggressively,pretending I can't hear him, and but
I just I see his face andI'm just I'm just like zoning out.
It seems maybe I don't know,I just feel like it's almost like white
noise. But again, it's likeI'm disassociating, but I'm I'm watching it,

(27:47):
and I just remember looking at hisface and how he looked so concerned.
He genuinely looked worried, like hewas scared of losing a friend.
He's on his knees begging me todo this. I really didn't know what
sex was, just you know,a few things from TV that I've heard
that I've seen and from the magazinesearlier that summer, but I didn't But

(28:08):
I know I didn't want anything todo with it. But there they said,
my brother on his knees begging mefor me, just waiting for an
answer, and my stomachs and nods. I'm so confused, just waiting for
my brother to come to my defenseor say anything that makes sense. Wondering
why he was asking this of me, even though I had said no twice

(28:30):
already. I was wondering why itwas so important to him, why this
friendship was so important to him whenI was I'm his sister, and it
just the room, it just Idon't know. It just felt like time
was frozen. I had all thistime to think about all this, but
it seemed like the clock was ticking. It seemed so slow but so fast
at the same time. I don'tknow how also explain it. I just

(28:52):
knew answer. And I'm just staringat him, and I'm thinking, isn't
this wrong? Why is he askingus of me? He's my brother,
this is weird. And it justfelt like I really didn't have a choice,
and so I just kind of putmy head down. I stopped coloring,
and I looked at both of themthat I well, yeah, I

(29:14):
looked at both of them, andI just kind of put my head down.
And before I could even say okay, before I could even say one
word two letters, they had grabbedmy arms, Josh on one side and
Kim on the other, and draggedme to the back room, my dad's
room, and they put me onthe bed, and my Josh just hopped

(29:38):
up on the bed and on hisback, kind of scooted back and dropped
his pants real quick. And Iremember Kim dropping his pants and laying down
on the pallet between the bed,my dad's bed and the window my bed
that I slept in for the summer, and I just remember I I was

(30:00):
just frozen. I was just onthe bed they placed me there. I
wasn't moving. I was just Iwas a robot. I wasn't there.
I was just watching it all inslow motion, and I'm just noticed on
the TV the of the Warrior Princesswas playing and it was one of my
favorites, and I got really excitedand I tried to just kind of focus

(30:22):
on hearing her and fight and bea badass. And I don't know,
I just remember thinking, like,what did I just agree to? What
did I just do? What arewe doing? What is this? What?
What? What? What's about tohappen? What's I just didn't know.
I knew I didn't understand what wasabout to happen, and I just

(30:45):
know my gut something was wrong andsomething was bad, something bad wasn't really
about to happen, and I wasjust trying to figure it out, make
sense of it. Things have tomake sense to me. And I don't
know, I just remember kind ofalmost feeling emotionally deer in the headlights,
but even less, I mean justjust not even scared, just frozen than

(31:07):
like I just was watching it godown. There was no choice in the
matter, There was no and noteven like like there was a decision to
be made. It was just watchingit throw down like a movie. And
Josh it was like he wasn't smirkingor smiling, but he was eager,
and I just remember looking at Cannonand Cannon said, I yeah, I
mean Cannon was already hard. Andlater this they explained to me, this

(31:33):
is helped in the police report.Was this is what helped them decide the
differences between Cannon being the main abuserand Josh being a partial victim. Was
I had to draw to make sureI wasn't lying penises for the police officers.

(31:56):
And because Cannon's was at and largeand matured and Josh's was flaccid and
the balls hadn't even dropped in thepicture that I drew, that they realized
he wasn't mature enough to make thesedecisions on his film. That they made
him a victim as well in thecase, and it seemed like he got

(32:21):
less time. I'm still trying toget all the records back to see what
all went down, but it seemedas though Karnon was charged more in the
case and Josh was more painted asa victim as well, but he went
first. Saw that never made senseto me. The more older I got,
and the more that things clicked andwhat went down and how and why

(32:44):
and what was charged and what wasn'tand what was never discussed. So Karnon
was already hard, and he saidyou have to suck his dick to get
it hard. And I looked overat Josh and Josh said, yeah,
come here, and got back inmy head and put my face on his
penis, and I just kind ofawkwardly looked back at them, and Karen

(33:07):
said, go suck it. Andafter I guess enough adequate time with Josh
morning and him saying you're a natural. Yeah, Karen said, Okay,
my turn, And as I'm gettingover to him and he's like telling me
to come over this way, hesays, you know, drop your pants

(33:30):
or pull down your shorts, andagain it's like I'm looking over my shoulder
and I know, like this isn'tright. I don't know what I'm doing
because I know this is not leadingtoward anything good. And I start pulling
my shorts down and I get downon my knees and he pulls my head
over and I put his penis inmy mouth as well, and neither one

(33:53):
of them. I mean, luckily, I feel got off. I don't
know that gives me some kind ofreally I I guys, they didn't fully
get their kicks. But after Idon't know, however long of me so
I can come off, we hearda voie luckily perfect timing, I guess

(34:19):
h and so I kind of freakedout and stood up and ran to the
bathroom, kind of tripped over myshorts. The bathroom got two doors to
it, one to the bedroom,went to the hallway of the apartment,
and uh, the boys kind ofstraightened up and came out of the room
and didnt kind of hear mufflom talkof like that's not acceptable. Why we're
all in the bathroom and I'm kindof talking about, oh, team is

(34:43):
better, and and they're just kindof like gold up the ongr again.
And I when I think it's beenI don't know. I just I'm in
the bathroom. I think I'm waitingfor it to be clear it's safe,
it's time for me to come out. And I'm I'm looking in the mirror
and I'm hooking down UF. I'mlike I'm free and I and I was
just relieved, and it was justlike, oh, that could have been

(35:06):
so bad. And then I feltdisgusting because I was like, that could
have been so bad. But Idon't know how or why or what was
about to happen? Was that sex? Was that? I just felt What
did I just do? Why didI just allow that? What just happened?
What did I just do? AndI just felt disgusted and and why

(35:30):
did my brother just allow this tohappen? I don't know it just I
was so disgusted and just I justI grabbed my parents and I pulled them
up and I just kind of strakedmyself up and stopped crying. And I
thought it was clear. And Icame out of the play and Cannon was
right there, just waiting, andit was like a monster in the shadows

(35:52):
came right by and he grabbed thatmy arm and he said, whispered,
picking this starting tone to me,if you tell anybody this happened, I
will kill you anything. So Iwould say, damn Mark. We spent
the rest of this summer just asfine. Nothing else happened, I would
say a word. Josh ended upsnitching on himself because he was so nervous

(36:15):
that I had told him I thoughtI was my mom. That was the
one thing I was unsure. Iwas like, do I do this podcast
or do I not? You know, I don't want this story getting out
before I can tell my children.But by the time they're old enough to
google or anything, I will havehad to have had this conversation with them
in a way that will help themlearn to not be fucking assholes in life,

(36:40):
especially my son, but my daughtertoo, just as a human being
and being a good person. Imean, just treating others, and you
don't know what other people are goingthrough. And hopefully when I get to
that conversation, you know, itwon't be a poor mom conversation, but
a we can do it in myconversation. Look what she's done. Look

(37:01):
how far would come? I don'tThat's the only thing that was really hard,
because I don't want to hide thisfrom them, but I don't want
them I don't want a formal reaction. I this did not break me.
I rose above it. I youknow, I think it has caused me

(37:24):
many struggles in my life and it'snot over. But I'm working through them.
But I have to take everything asa lesson and I'm learning very hard
lessons and how not to be veryangry all the time. But I'm getting
there. And I learned that youcannot hide from this, you cannot run

(37:45):
from it. You cannot bury it. You cannot drown it out with drugs
or alcoholic. You can't drown outwith sex. You can't run away from
it. You have to face ithead on and or it's just gonna your
good spin out of control, andlike layers, you will shed, and
I mean slowly, but surely youwill get lighter. I feel lighter the

(38:08):
further I go in this journey.But there are things that's stolowing me down
that I'm working on. It's justit's a prophet. They split obviously after
this went down pretty quickly. AfterYeah, my dad has played pretty oblivious
in this whole situation. Not youknow, honestly, my dad is a

(38:29):
stranger for me, and we werereconnecting now and trying to piece something together.
But his memory isn't the best,honestly, and I think he chooses
not to remember a lot, Andso when I did have questions and this
podcast did come up, he couldn'teven remember her last night or give me
any information on her, or reallyhave any desire to talk about it other

(38:52):
than you know, us and ourrelationship movie forward. My mom at first
reacted, It seemed very immediate andattentive. But it was more like pointing
blame and jumping on making sure thatit wasn't Josh that was to blame.
She constantly tried to blame my dad. And when we came home from the

(39:15):
summer, my brother and I's roomsare adjacent from each other. We share
a bathroom, and I never wantedto be in my room because I felt
like he was always going to showcome in there, and he was always
so close to me. He wouldn'tlet me be around my mom alone.
He was just always right there,just so I would keep my mouth shut.

(39:35):
I wasn't saying a word because ofwhat Cannon had already threatened me with.
But Josh, I don't think waseven aware of that. He was
just so nervous that I was goingto say a word, that he was
just always there. So at nightI would try and sneak away to my
mom's room, and once he foundout that I was doing that, he
would sneak into her room too.Well. One night, I got away

(39:58):
with it, and he woke upthe next morning and in a pure like
he was ghost white and sweat andpanic and ran into the bedroom and went
first into the room, and mymom just looked at him and was like,
what is going on? And hewas just like, I just want
to be near sister. I justwant to be near sister. I just
want to be I'm just worried abouther. I'm just want to be near

(40:19):
her. And she just immediately separatedus, and he threw up in the
bathroom and just was in a purepanic, and she set him down and
she talked to him. I don'tknow what he said. I think he
just said something went down in thesummer, because she didn't say it was
him. And when my mom finallyasked me, she's just more leaning like,

(40:44):
what was it your dad? Wasit was your dad, wasn't it,
and trying to point towards him morethan hear what I had to say
about it. I was so Iwasn't shock, like I'd never even considered

(41:07):
my dad's and she was just like, it was Curtis, right, it
was your father, And I waslike, no, absolutely not. It
was Josh and Cannon, and shewas just like, oh my gosh.
She freaked out immediately and was likeit was the boys and it was like
I swear it was just on fastforward, and her and my stepdad closed

(41:29):
up in the room and just talkedand tried to figure it out, and
then took a silp police station,and then it just seemed like it was
on fast forward again to where Iwas talking to multiple police officers and telling
my story, but not telling allthe way up to the story, and
then being cut off constantly. Itwas like they were all, what led

(41:51):
up to this, What led upto this? It was the dad's fault,
It was the mom's fault, Itwas the older boy's fault. It
was all to like seem to getflame off of that was it's some like
the only angle. No one wasworried about what happened to me until after
I was done with a fire report. And they even brought in this to
bringing a pencil and a spiral becausewe want to make sure that she's not

(42:14):
just making this story up. Sheneeds to draw a penis. They didn't
want to hear my story. Theyjust wanted me to draw a penis so
I knew what I was talking aboutand what I really did. They didn't
ask me what happened. I justsaid they did stuff to me, and
they didn't do a rape kit yet. They were just making sure that the

(42:35):
story all was out before they wouldn'tmoved any port and they and I just
remembered them cutting me off constantly beforeI would actually say what happened, and
they said, before we go anyfarther, she needs to draw a penis
to corroborate her story or to makesure that she's not just fabricating all this
up. And that's what threw meoff. I was just like again,

(42:58):
I felt emotionless because I was like, why what do I even know about
this stuff? Why would I makeWhy would I make this up? Who
makes this up? Who does this? Who does this happen to? What?
This isn't normal? So why wouldI say it? And I just
remember being completely just out of it, just like wellah, just this is
not happening to me. I'm nota kid anymore. It just I felt

(43:22):
completely stripped of my innocence after thatmoment. After it was like the moment
that Cannon asked me to have sexwith him. I was like a robot
for a whole hot minute. Ijust nothing. I had to prove these
things happened to me. I didn'teven get to tell them what happened to
me. I had to draw twodifferent dicks on paper, and because I

(43:45):
drew one that was big and erectand mature and one that was flaccidy.
That is one of the main thingsthat made sure that Cannon was charged more
and that Josh was painted as avictim. He wasn't even hard. He
didn't want a sister's mouth on hisdick. He was forced to do this,

(44:06):
he went first, what do youmean he was forced to do this?
He didn't got his own head andsuck his own dick. I just
it didn't make any sense to me. So it just seemed not real.
And they said I was emotionless,so they seemed to not affect me.
So therapy wasn't much, and theydidn't ask me questions because they didn't want

(44:29):
to trigger it and make it allcome back, so hopefully I would just
forget it. So because I didn'ttalk about it, because I didn't want
to, and because I didn't talkabout it, so they said I was
here, and so I was thinkingtherapy really quickly, and then they I
mean, and I did fast forward. Sorry. After the police report,
I went to the doctor. Mymom took me there. I had to

(44:51):
teach it a right protest and mycherry was intact so I wasn't touched.
I was fine. They weren't worriedabout it at all because she wasn't She
wasn't abused, So I just sawthe dicks. I probably nothing even happened.
I didn't even they didn't even knowthat I had to give them blowjobs
because they didn't need to know.My hymen was intact. I was not

(45:12):
abused, so they didn't even go. They didn't even go to June for
a look a year. And Iasked my mom. She couldn't even remember.
Oh, I don't even think itwas a year. And my mom
has been covering it up since ithappened. She's been trying to blame my
dad this whole time. When thejudge decided, you know, Josh to
get however long he got in Jude, not even a year, to Canton

(45:34):
to get whatever he got Juvie,they got out the same time, so
they did Julie at the same time. And then Cannon went to like the
Texas Commissions something for youth for awhile, and then when he turned eighteen,
he went to jail for a littlebit, so I don't know how
that worked out. And then Iwould get checks from him, but from
that moment on. The judge saidthat he was not to be around me,
not to be a certain feed around. He could live in the same

(45:57):
groves, so he had to livewith his father, and my mom begged
the judge for me to go livewith my father and for her to go
for her to take care of mybrother, because this didn't happen under her
roof. But he needs one careobviously, because more was done to him
and he needs more focus. Andwell, she I mean, yeah,

(46:19):
the more the older I got,the more that hurt. But luckily,
the judge said, hell no,I guess luckily, And ever since then
she's been begging me and introducing himinto my life constantly, whether he was
loud or not, because he's mybrother and I should forgive him. And
I just remember immediately after all ofthis went down, and the judge and

(46:45):
had decided and made his decision,and my mother was horrified, and I
remember being outside and it was duskand the son's going down and it's I'm
sitting on the tripline and I rememberseeing the light as the kitchen hang out
and they're just stressed at talking.The adults are talking inside. They're all
trying to figure out what they're aboutto do. And I remember seeing Josh

(47:07):
come out the back door, andI remember freezing, and I'm like looking
at the window, thinking someone's goingto come out here because he's not supposed
to be around. Where is everyone? Where is everyone? Where is everyone?
He's not supposed to be around me. And he comes out and he
crawls up on a trampoline and I'mjust staring at the window waiting for someone

(47:27):
to come out. And he grabsme and he puts me in his lap
and he just pulls me in tightand he just holds me. He says,
you know I love you, right, you know I'm your brother,
and I would never do anything tohurt you, right, you know that,
right, And he's squeezing Tiger Tigerand won't let me go, And
I'm realizing he's not gonna let mego into I agree, and so I'd
say, I know, any let'sgo. And I just realized kind of

(47:52):
at that point, no one's comingto see. I gotta did it on
my own. And I just kindof feel like I've done that by whole
lot, Like I knew I wasdoing it on my phone, I know,
growing up. I was a bitof a rat and a selfish person.
And I remember growing up my brotherfeeling on the outskirts because he was

(48:14):
there and I was here with hismom, and I was definitely daddy's girl,
and my mom was definitely and mybrother was definitely a momless boy,
and she was always on his defense. And I just remember him always.
His nickname from me was rat orrat and I ruined his life. He
gave everything he could to Rotc whenhe moved up here to Dallas to live

(48:35):
with my dad and let his gradesgo to ship or barely passing so that
he could go to Rotc. Andhe was going to join the Marines and
better his life and be better.And the rat rat spoiled little daughter that
got everything she ever wanted would anoutshine, and he got all the way
under. I was never about me. No one ever knew what happened,
No one ever wanted to know.Well, you went rained. That was

(48:59):
always the thing that was always Ialways felt like a fraud because in the
end, when my mom would alwayssay that to be all growing up,
well you weren't raped, Well youweren't raked all growing up, you weren't
raped when I finally broke down andwent off on my mom and said I
was raped. I felt like sucha fraud because I did tell her I
was raped. And I felt likesuch a fraud because even then I still

(49:22):
wasn't able to tell what happened tome. Oh my god, I had
no idea. Chin. The doctorsaid that your hyman was still intact.
There was no way that you wereraped at I had no idea you were
actually raped. I didn't know.You didn't ask, You didn't ask if
I was raped. I was rapedmom, And still to this day,
I feel like a fraud because shestill doesn't know what happened, and I
technically, in my mind know thatI could. It could have been a

(49:45):
lot worse than I was not raped. I mean, my mouth was.
It's been a hard rock battle trainto get to over these things and if
I should introduce them to my children. And she's introduced my brother many times
to my children and with photos andnames and stories. I even caught her
when she was watching my child.I went to my friend's birthday party.

(50:07):
I call her and I asked herwhere she's going. She said out of
town. I said, where shewas meeting up my daughter was three months
old. No, I'm sorry,six months old at the time. She
was going to meet up with mybrother for his birthday. Took my daughter
out of county lines to meet myabuser for his breath and not tell me

(50:28):
about it because she knew i'd sayno, and I was out of town,
so there's nothing I could do aboutit. My children know he exists
because of her, showing photos andtelling stories and then saying who's Josh because
I don't talk about a brother,and she told them that it was my
brother is her son. We nearlyknow he exists because of her, And
even if it had, honestly,weirdly enough, no one would know because

(50:51):
no one wanted to hear about it, Like it's been the same story,
but who would know, I meanthrough the random years of me trying to
randomly shout things out to them.Yeah, they kind of have a gist,
but it's been the same thing Ihad, So I don't want to

(51:16):
I'm out of her set. Idon't want to mention too much of relation.
But I know a family member ofhis he had already abused, and
then I don't know how many others, but I know that he had an
issue with pulling girls into the bathroomin high school. That's the reason he

(51:36):
was taken away from his father.Other than finding sex toys and things of
his dad's and messing with those,is the reason that his dad lost custody
and then was in his mom's careto begin with. So for his mom
to be covering his tracks already,she was already aware of the issues.
He had already abused one person,if not many others by pointing into the

(52:00):
bathroom. I feel like law enforcementcould have gone more intensely. I feel
like, yes, it was adelicate topic, and I don't think a
lot of people wanted to touch onit or hear it, But I think
that they should have dove a littledeeper to understand more than just hear the
concerns of obviously a worried mob oftwo kids. They went off of more

(52:25):
of what she was saying, morethan what really happened. Once they heard
that Cannon had threatened me and threatenedlife of two people, that's the only
reason he got charged more and thefact that he was older, so they
were saying that he was praying onboth of us. That was one thing
I was It was really hard toget over is trying to not be so

(52:47):
angry and trying to understand and allowingmyself to understand. I was like,
I didn't want to understand and makesense of it, even though in my
mind that's how it works. Ihave to make sense, have to make
sense to me, and so Ididn't want to accept him my brother,
being a victim as well. Hewas my brother, he was my older

(53:07):
brother. He was supposed to protect, not do this to me, And
the fact that he went first wasalways what stuck with me, and the
bet that he had then afterwards continuedto press the matter and point fingers and
call me a rat and blame mefor ruining his life. And he ended

(53:28):
up not being able to join theMarines because they saw his record and they
don't let child pedophiles into the military. So then I again took something away
from him and ruined his future andwas a rat. You know. All
signs to me seemed to point tothat, but it seemed like I was
the only one. The more myfamily found out about it, the more

(53:49):
family members found out about it,everybody was like, he's your brother,
it happens, Get over it.It was such a lack of shock to
everyone that found out about it,that I just kind of stopped talking talking
about it. I just kind ofwant everyone to know out there that feels
this way or feels alone, thatthis is only happening to them, or
that they deserved it, or ifthey feel guilty. I'm battle. This

(54:15):
was the biggest struggle for me.It's not feeling guilty. Somehow, I
feel like everything is my fault.I instantly so amol walks into our room
when they're asking questions, I'm like, oh no, I'm in trouble and
i have absolutely nothing to do withme. I'm to blame instantly in everything.
I'm sorry all the time, andI just I'm sick of it,

(54:36):
and it makes me even more mad. It's just it's I'm apologic, apologetic
or anger and then just sadness andthen more anger because I'm sad. I
don't want to be sad, andit's just it's vicious. It's a vicious
cycle. But I just anyone thatfeels this way that they're not alone.
And it took me so long tounderstand that I'm not alone. And then

(54:57):
I have people out there on myside, and this happens way more than
it should. And the more Italk to people, the more I understood
that this happened so often. It'ssickening. I am a four I am
a third generation sexual abuse of family, and I am making damn sure that

(55:19):
neither one of my children before ifwith anything in my power, if it's
not going to happen. I justwant them to know that we can do
this, that we need to talk, We need to be vocal. You
have to talk about these things.You have to spread awareness about these things.
I thought I was the only one, my best friend in the whole
wide world that I've known for thelongest time since sixth grade. Thought she

(55:43):
was the only one. We thoughtwe were the only ones in silent together,
didn't tell each other. And thenfinally I told her, And way
years later down the road did shetell me me? Who would understand?
We have got to stop hiding.We've got to start talking to each other
and showing each other that Unfortunately,as shitty as it is, it happens

(56:07):
a lot, and you're not alone, and it's not and it's weird yet
it's weird, but it's not justweird for you. It's so it happened
to me, and I still can't. I still mind boggled by it.
It does not make sense. Igo round and round. I just at
walls every time because I'm I'm someoneyou're supposed to protect. And every movie

(56:29):
you think about, in every bookyou read, I swear you have that
big brother role. So that's whateveryone sees. Yet that's not what I
have. That's not what a lotof people have. Creepy old men on
my specialty. I used to bea bartender and a server, and I
mean that was my go to foreasy money and one of my best friends.

(56:49):
I grew up in a retiro,my mom used to be a Senior
Citizen Center director. A level ofpeople, but my twisted innocence, I
don't know. It was just easymoney in a sick game. I mean,
it's just it's just sad. Butit happens way more than it should
and and and everyone thinks that they'rethe only ones. I've heard too many
stories that I'm like, what youtwo, But it's just like fuck,

(57:15):
I don't want to be a partof this game anymore. I don't want
to be a part of this gameanymore. But we have to, and
we've got to stop being so ashamedof it because they're waiting. I hope
to gain just more awareness, ofcourse, more vocalization, more talking about
it, but just release. It'sjust some more late, just some just
a release, some way to blame, of judgment, of myself, of

(57:37):
guilt I've put on my shoulders forthings I can't control, just things I've
allowed for too long. That's acceptable. I just hope to regain a voice
somehow in this and just get mystory out there for once in my life
and just on my own terms.That and just this is what happened,
This is I just want to justreleasing some weight. I've known Jennifer for

(57:59):
admit it. Upon first meeting her, and you'd have to know me to
understand this, as I'm way moreintroverted and quiet than I might appear online.
I was put off by her intensepositivity. It was a case of
fuck, it's too early for thisshit. I still need my coffee,
but my gut was telling me topay attention. Something was off. As

(58:23):
I got to know her, Irealized what my gut was saying was she's
been through something horrible. And aswe talked a bit more, I not
only found myself to be so heartbrokenby her story, but I instinctually said
to her, hey, I havea platform for you if you need it,
and she so graciously accepted. Notonly this, though, but I'm

(58:46):
proud as hell to call her myfriend and I'm looking forward to that supervised
play date with our kiddos. Jennifer, thank you so much for walking into
my life. I am incredibly proudof you, as well as your strength
and your perseverance, and I findit highly admirable that you will laugh in

(59:06):
the face of adversity despite what otherstry to do. I mean, look
at me, I can't even laughin the face of adversity. I just
get mad and bitch about it allthe time. But I've seen you grow
into something so fierce, something soamazing, and I just can't begin to
express how strong you are. Youare the kind of person where if you
were told to shovel ship for aliving, you'd hate it, but you'd

(59:30):
still do it with a smile.Your ethic, your generosity, gregarious vibe,
survivor spirit and steadfastness or something weall can truly learn from. So
thank you from the bottom of myheart for not only trusting us to help
you tell your story, but forbeing my friend. With everything Corney just
said and with Jennifer's story, itcomes as no shock that she is absolutely

(59:54):
a bee. Jennifer is beautiful,strong, resilient, and once vulnerable,
she however, did not sting.She instead methodically pushed through and demanded her
power back, saving her sting untilit became necessary. And with that we

(01:00:15):
will protect her and all the beesat all costs. For without bees,
we as a human race cannot surviveand thrive. So be vigilant, for
when you mess with the bees,you get the hive. Thank you for

(01:00:38):
listening to a Nefarious Nightmare. Musicused in the theme was originally by ghost
Stories Incorporated, remixed by Ryan rcX Murphy. Additional background music is provided
by Epidemic Sound and Nefarious Nightmare isscripted, researched, and produced by Courtney
Fenner and Amanda Cronin. I'm leanyHobbs and as always, be vigilant,

(01:01:00):
for when you mess with the bees, you get the hive

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S5 E12 - Still Minding The Beehive - Surviving Sex Crimes, Part 12 - Jennifer

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}S5 E12 - Still Minding The Beehive - Surviving Sex Crimes, Part 12 - Jennifer