Season 5 Recap, updates, teasers

BONUS - Season 5 Recap, updates, teasers


CW/TW - Foul Language, brief discussions of SA, murder, hate crimes, potential spoilers


Today, Courtney and Amanda chat about plenty of things in the fashion of 2021 Nefarious (meaning, it’s casual and there will be banter so if you can’t handle it, maybe skip this one! But it’s a bonus so we can do that) We talk about:

- A delicious dessert
- A rude grocery store employee and how that ties in to ENGAGING WITH EMPATHY
- a surprisingly amazing constructive review (I hope you’re listening!)
- nip potential rumors in the bud (we aren’t divorcing.)
- shout out a new podcast (True Compass!)
- Taco Bell (Taco bell.)
- potential hints at what’s to come (possible interview with Courtney’s past employer)
- Season 5 recap
- BIG lessons we have learned
- what’s coming next week in Season 6

We are so excited at the opportunities headed our way. We are humbled by all of the victims and survivors who have trusted us and allowed us to offer our platform to share their stories and most of all, we appreciate EVERYONE who has supported us and all of these bees along the way. The only direction from here is up! Stay tuned.

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intro/outro by Lanie Hobbs of True Crime Cases with Lanie and It's haunted... what now? Podcasts. Music provided by epidemic sound, intro/outro music originally by Ghost Stories Inc, remixed by Ryan RCX Murphy.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/a-nefarious-nightmare-true-crime--5908360/support.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
And the Farious Nightmare contains themes thatmay be explicit or triggering. For some
specific warnings and disclaimers will be mentionedin the show notes. And the Farious
Nightmare assumes all parties that are mentionedin these cases to be innocent unless proven
guilty in a court of law.Listener discretion is strongly advised. You can
help us grow the show by leavingus a five star written review on Apple

(00:20):
podcast or Spotify, or you canjoin our Patreon for lighthearted bonus content.
I'm Courtney and I'm Amanda, andthis is a bonus episode for a Nefarious
Nightmare. Well, hello, everybody, welcome back to a Nefarious Nightmare.

(00:55):
We have been kind of on hiatusfor a little bit, but we did
just in season five and we wantedto kind of give you a little bit
of a bonus episode prior to seasonsix. I've got Amanda with me,
hi, so I know you recognizethat voice. She was just telling me
about like a dessert that she justhad. Why don't we go ahead and

(01:18):
talk a little bit about that.It's a seven layer brownie thingy. I
don't know how they get seven layersin a brownie, but it's like very
thin but it has like a it'snot chocolate, it has like a Graham
cracker bottom crust, and then ithas some kind of like coconut topping,
and then it has like butterscotch andthen chocolate chips on top of it within

(01:38):
like toasted coconut. Again, didyou make this or no? I bought
this at the Kroger, oh Man. I usually never buy my desserts,
but I was walking by and itjust it looked freaking delicious, and I've
might have eaten all four of themsince Friday. Hey, you know what,
more power to you. I've beendoing a lot of shopping at Kroger.

(01:59):
I've been doing the grower pick upin a real quick a negative shout
out to Kroger, by the way, but we had a pickup order and
we picked it up and my husbandwas actually in the driver's seat. And
the way they have it set upis if you look at like the numbers,
they have the sign facing the right, but they have the number painted

(02:21):
on the parking spot. So wealways assume, well, if I see
one on my left, that's theparking spot. So it's really confusing,
but whatever, We've never had anissue, so we put in the sign
said three. Okay, but theparking spot set four, but I'm going
to put three because I see three. So we put in three. This

(02:44):
dude comes out and he's normally prettyunfriendly, but he came out and he's
like Courty Fenner and he goes,that's my wife. And the guy was
like, all right, where doyou want your groceries? And we're like
the back seat and he goes,okay, well, looks like you're parked
in four. Like the way hesaid it was really rude. I was

(03:06):
just like, uh, you know, it really made me mad. You
see this is when you you flipit, oh and reverse it. That's
very confusing. Usually they have itlike when you pull up to the spot,
it's like right in front of you. Yeah. Nate and I we're
pretty low key. We don't liketo act like Karen's. But that guy
really really upset both of us.If anything, he should have said it

(03:30):
like, hey, I don't knowif you realized right, you know you
put you put it in the cheerin spot four, but you're actually in
spot three year vice versa. Butyeah, when we say correcting you maybe
so it won't happen in the future. But but the way he corrected,
I'm trying to remember how exactly hedid it because I was kind of shocked,

(03:50):
but he did it in such away that kind of took me aback.
And Nate was like upset, andthe man was like real sarcastic,
is like, okay, well youhave a nice day, and he's like,
you don't have a nice day.Shit. So we called it and
the guy that the guy that answeredthe phone, he was so sweet,
but he was the manager. AndI was like, listen. I was

(04:11):
like, I am not normally atKaren. I do believe in karma,
and I'm not one that will normallycall and complain about people. But that
dude has been rude to us fromday one and that was uncalled for and
I'm not handling that. And Iwas like, you know, you need
to talk to him. I'm notasking that you fire him. I'm not
asking that you demote him whatever,you know, I'm just asking that you

(04:33):
remind him that there's a I justclocked in way of treating people, and
there's a I am not on theclock way of treating people. The guy
was so kind, he was soupset. You could hear it in his
voice that he was a little intimidated. He was, he was kind of

(04:53):
losing his train of thought and hewas stuttering a little bit. He goes,
I apologize, I have a stuf, and I was like, oh
my god, no, no,no, no no, And then I
felt bad for calling and complaining.He was he was no, but he
was just very like you could tellhe was getting really nervous and like didn't
know how to handle this and whatI didn't know what to do. Please,

(05:15):
I'm like, listen, it's okay. I was like, it's not
you. I hope you know thatit is not you. I'm just making
you aware because if it was mybusiness and I was in charge, I
wouldn't want my employees treating people likethis. That's what I always say to
people. I'm like, listen,like my parents' own businesses growing up,
I was raised in the entrepreneurship rightand the only and I say that it's

(05:38):
every business I call, which Idon't call a lot. It takes a
lot for me to have to calland complain about something. Yeah, usually
like your situation, Like I wouldhave called and complained, right, But
I always say, like, youknow, if if if this was my
store and I was in charge ofit. I would want to know that
this is happening. Yeah, Sohonestly, I probably wouldn't have called if

(05:58):
it was any other day. Butit was just a particularly bad day,
and uh, I would have beenlike any other day, I would have
just been like, you know what, let it go. It's fine.
He's probably just having a bad day. But he could just caught us on
a bad day. It was.But she said, he's been like this
before. Yeah, but he's neverbeen that rude. Like he's always just
like kind of blowing us off,like yeah, whatever, it's you.

(06:20):
This time, he's just like youdo know that you're parked day. It's
just like excuse me, mother,you know. So yeah, anyway,
treat people like you want to betreated. But yeah, that's not and
it just kind of I was thinkingabout, oh, thanks, now he's
like really great if I'm allowed tohey, and well, hey, now

(06:45):
nobody will ever question whether we feedour cats or not. That's what was
happening. My husband was feeding ourtwo cats. Most of y'all probably don't
know, or maybe y'all don't care, but recently I lost my cat Nemo
passed away. We had to havehim muthanized. Unfortunately, he was not
doing well. She's been kind ofa year, hasn't it, Amanda.

(07:09):
It has. It's been a weirdIt's been a weird season. It's been
a weird year. Yeah, itreally has. But it's all good.
It's all gonna get a lot betterfrom here. But yeah, back to
the that that whole thing. There'skind of a point that I wanted to
make with that whole story about howyou know we were mistreated. It's it's
there's worse things in life that happen, but there's something that really resonated with

(07:34):
me. Ever since, even beforethe True Crime Podcast Festival, everybody was
using the terminology engage with empathy,and that's really resonated with me. I
use it at work. I've beenteaching my daughter that she on her first
day of school or the second dayof school, I think she was saying

(07:54):
talking about like, you know,how she really liked everybody except for this
one girl because she cried a lotwell, and I was like, well,
baby, don't you cry a lottoo? Though? Whenever mommy and
daddy like drop you off at school, She's like, well yeah, and
I'm like, honey, you needto start engaging with empathy. It's something
that I think that we should allbe teaching our children. And I think
it's also it's something that should betaught whenever you have new hires at a

(08:18):
job. I think that it expandsfurther than the true crime arena. I
think that it's something that we allneed to learn. And that dude that
pretty much made us feel like wewere two inches tall was not engaging with
empathy. Even if you have tomask, fine, but engage with empathy.

(08:41):
Because what if it was you,you know, he was at Chell's
coworker, maybe what two minutes?He couldn't just put a smile on his
face for it? Two minutes,right exactly. I mean, if you
want to go trash talking, hereare the coworkers. Fine, I won't
be there to hear it. Idon't care, but I didn't see.
I mean that's my argument, Like, which is it? Is it three
or four? You know what Imean? So? I mean I think

(09:03):
you and I both worked in customerservice settings. Yeah, and there are
those days, in those times whereyou have to put on to just this
fagest smile and as soon as theyturn their backs. Do you just drop
it? Like I've had days likethat to where I just like I put
a smile on for ten seconds unlessyou Now somebody makes me mad and I'm
in that mood. Yeah, it'sgoing down. But yeah, I admit

(09:28):
my RBF has really been activated atwork. But I mean it's work.
I don't care. I'm sure people'sfaces look like I'm not here to please
my coworkers. If y'all are listening, though, thank you. I do
want to address one thing real quickbefore we move on. Actually, there's
a couple of things i'd like toaddress. The first thing I want to

(09:48):
do, if you're okay with it, Amanda, is I want everybody to
know something. I've been receiving alot of it messages, and I'm not
annoyed. I appreciate everybody doing this, but you know, to my knowledge,
Amanda's not going anywhere. No,I'm not, Amanda. Why don't
you go ahead and tell everybody alittle bit about what is going on and

(10:11):
why I'm getting some random messages.Yeah, nothing is going on in the
various I just like to overload myplate. Yeah, it is what I
do. It's what I'm known for. It's why I'm on so many PTA
boards and city committees and volunteer programs. And I love podcasting. It is
my time that I can sit aroundand talk to people I like and I

(10:35):
love and I don't know, Ilove podcasting, And so am I crazy
for doing a third podcast? Idon't know how many other you have a
fourth podcast? Honey, you saidwe weren't doing it anymore. We're gonna
We're gonna do it again at somepoint. I don't care. Then I'll
do four like it's it's to me, it's totally fine. Like I have

(10:58):
my scheduled to a t now.Nobody can be throwing extra stuff on me
if it's not planned out. Youguys, at least give me a few
days notice because my days are full. I'm I'm I'm good at giving you
notice about things. Great. Youand I just know how to work together
now, I mean, we've we'vebeen together for how many years right now?

(11:20):
Basically, everybody, we're not divorcing. No, we're not. This
isn't a custody battle. I'm justadding more things to my plate and hopefully
bringing you some more content. Imean, Nefarius isn't going anywhere we have
done way too much and have gottenthis far. It would be silly if
something happened, now you know whatI mean. No, nothing is happening.

(11:46):
True Compass is not even true crime. Actually talk a little bit about
True Compass. It is more andyou and I do the same thing,
but it is more of a podcastto give those to statistics over crime and
why it happens and how it happens, and trying to raise more awareness of

(12:07):
how you can keep yourself safe andkeep the people you love around you safe
because this world is freaking insane andnobody is safe, right, and so
True Compass is not. And everybodyjust keeps thinking it's just another true crime
podcast. It's we're not. That'swhat you and I do. That's not
what we're doing over there. Ithas to do a true crime, but

(12:30):
it's more about, I guess,how to try to prevent true crime.
So it kind of okay, Sonot to compare at all, It's just
the only way I can. Soif you were to see like something was
wrong and they have a podcast,which I love, Tiffany Rees, please
please take us under your wing.Tiffany, I don't think you're listening,

(12:50):
but just in case. But yeah, you have something was wrong, and
then there's what came next next.Yeah, that's companion podcast. And then
you also have something that is calleddata points. I think Tiffany's trying to
roll out that's another companion like episodes. Would you say that true compass would

(13:11):
pretty much it's not exactly true crime, but it's more of a companion podcast
to true crime podcast. Yes,that is what I say. We will.
Will we talk about true crime,yes, because if they go hand
in hand together, obviously, soyeah, we will talk true crime,
but it's not it's not exactly whatwe're doing here, right, you know

(13:33):
all my podcasts are a little bitof a different niche. Oh yeah,
I would say that we're very verysimilar to fandom Family Chats. Okay,
were we watch podcast guys? Didn'tyou know? Which If you want to
listen to a podcast while you're inthe car with your kids, yeah,

(13:54):
then you can listen to fandom FamilyChats and I won't cuss. I know,
shocking, but yeah, we justwanted to go ahead and clear that
up before I got any more messagesbecause I promise you nothing's happening, but
we're not. Yeah, we're good. Nothing not to blame or shame or
anything. But when I get messageslike that, it does stress me out

(14:16):
a little bit because it triggers meback to like the day when I'm like,
nothing's happening, what's happening, What'sgoing on? What do I not
know? So so, guys,I love y'all. Thank you for your
concern. There's nothing to be concernedabout. We are not born anywhere.
There have been bigger and much much, much, much much worse things that

(14:37):
have happened, and that was supposedto take us down than it never did.
So we've got way too many no'sgoing on. And I also vary
in this, and I also wanteverybody to know that I am incredibly proud
of Shay for starting a podcast.I wish she had done this a long
long time ago. It's something thatshe's meant to do, So you guys

(14:58):
have to go check it out wheneverit finally airs. I just listen to
the trailer today and it's it's cute. I love it so ill a nice
background. I'm not the background,the theme music, and yeah, it's
gonna be a good one. Soy'all go check it out. We'll drop
a different days, so you guyshave different stuff to listen to, Companion

(15:20):
podcast to Alter Crime podcasts, andShane knows are shit. She's gone to
school for like the law thing,and Amanda knows are shit. She's been
doing safety stuff for a long time. And the only thing I can say
that I'll offer if y'all ever needed, is I'm happy to give y'all some
statistics that I know because absolutely onething that I do want to kind of

(15:43):
go ahead and speaking of which,I want to kind of go ahead and
tell everybody. I'm not going tomake any guarantees, but you guys have
heard me talk about Ministry Safe severaltimes, right Amanda, So not gonna
promise anything, but I will saythat there is a ninety nine percent chance

(16:03):
that there will be a bonus episodewithin the next month or two where I
get to interview the founders of MinistrySafe and you guys will get to meet
her, and it's going to begreat. So y'all please keep your ears
out for that, because I'm soexcited, and I'm very nervous because Kim
excited for this too, because I'vebeen hearing all this stuffy Kim is amazing,

(16:25):
but she's super intimidating and I loveher. She's like, she's goals.
So I love Kim. She's amazing. So that's that's that. So
there's my shout outs. I wantto address a review real quick, and
then we're going to move on toa recap that we love our reviews,
don't we We do. So here'sthe thing. We don't like to really
address reviews because either they're phenomenal andit makes people sound like humble braggy whenever

(16:53):
they bring up reviews. It doesn'tto me. It robs me the wrong
way. Even when we were doingit back in the beginning, it rubbed
me kind of wrong. It waslike, what are we doing? It
just felt like, oh, lookat what my podcast is doing. We
got a review, and then Ithink it was different than the people.
Some people like it, some peopledon't, right, And then we've addressed
negative reviews and frankly, it justkind of didn't work out. We've learned

(17:18):
that we're going to always pretty muchignore the negative reviews unless there's something constructive
to it. However, there isone review that we got recently that I
do want to address because I'm goingto hope and I'm really hoping they listen
because I actually saw this and appreciatedit, Whereas like two years ago,

(17:40):
when I saw a four star reviewand not a five star review, I
would have been crying in a cornerthinking that we were just done and dead
and horrible. But like all things, we've grown. So this review is
a four star review and it saysbackground music, and it's from somebody named
Against Child Mutilation, and they saidlove the podcast. One piece of constructive

(18:04):
criticism. The background music is verydistracting from the conversation slash interviews. I
want whoever made that revew to knowthat I so appreciate it, more than
you can even possibly know, becausethere have been complaints before about the background
music, and the rebel in mewants to just be like, Nope,

(18:26):
I'm going to keep it going.I'm going to keep it going. The
thing is, because of this review, I will keep the music going,
but I am going to work toimprove the volume levels. So, guys,
if y'all are going to leave reviewson anybody's podcasts and you want to
give actual constructive criticism, this isthe way to do it. So whoever

(18:48):
against Child Mutilation is thank you somuch. Please reach out to me if
you hear this, and I wouldlove to send you a T shirt.
Really, really truly appreciate that.I know it doesn't seem like much,
but that's the kind of thing thatwe need, is constructive criticism, not
somebody being an asshole. We canonly get better. Yeah, and we

(19:10):
need sometimes we need to kind ofget that little kick in the ass to
tell us, hey, you're kindof messing up on one thing or two
things. Sometimes. You know,I don't I don't like unwarranted advice or
anything like that. But if you'rean avid podcast listener, like clearly this
person is, and you're listening tous, and you're like, you know
what, I can love this podcastand still not like certain things, and

(19:30):
I'm going to address it in arespectful way. That's that's all I can
really ask, you know, So, whoever you are, thank you so
much. Please, you know,let me know who you are. I
really do want to find out whatyour shirt sizes and send you a T
shirt if that's okay with you,whoever you are. So that's it.
Do you have anything, Amanda?I just I loved watching seeing all the

(19:52):
reviews, even the negative one,even the negative ones, because you know
what it means people care enough tosay something. Yeah, the positive ones
are sweet, and the negative oneswe just live rent free in their head.
And that's I don't know what.Okay, I'll tell you what.
I want to address the ads thingreal quick. Somebody said something about like
the horrific amount of ads, andyou know, I see that review on

(20:15):
several podcasts, and I just needto say something. I'm not trying to
blame Spreaker for anything, but Spreakerhas this thing called optimized ads, and
what they will do is whenever yousign on a Spreaker, they will go
all the way back to your backcatalog and they will add like fifteen or
twenty ads in the beginning. AndI didn't realize this until just the other
day. Guys. The one thingI can say about that is if you

(20:37):
don't like the ads, just fastforward like we don't. We don't care.
It's not that we're trying to paythe bills, as somebody tried to
claim. That's not If you hadknown how much we make off of these
ads, you'd know that we're nottrying to pay the bills with it.
I mean, I have a fulltime job, okay, And you know
the only kind of monetization that weare trying to really do is to give

(21:00):
back to the podcast itself, likewe're improving purposes or and or to save
up to help victims and survivors ofcrime. And that's what we've said from
the very beginning. So that's allthat there is to it. We're going
to work on the ads, butplease try to understand that you don't know.
You don't know what happens on theback end of podcasts sometimes, and

(21:21):
one of those things happens to bethe way that that ads are put in.
I've worked on the recent episodes wherethere's not so many, but I
can't necessarily help what happens with thebad catalog until I can go through and
spend about five days and clean itup. So that's all I got to
say about that. So all right, so let's do the recap because we

(21:41):
just spent about twenty four minutes oftalking about not the REECA you were supposed
to do. Yeah, you're right, it's upon this episode. So I
want to talk about do you wantto start? No, you start?
Why? Because you're better about that? If as long as I don't have
a script, then I'll start stutteringand we're not addressing another review right now,

(22:03):
are we No, we're not adeptat speech. We speak with stilt.
We're clearly speaking with stilted anyway,what is stilted? Honestly, if
you actually look at the defension depth, Wow, that's that's that's speaking.
Now, there's a definition. Rightbefore I found out that I'm on the

(22:26):
autism spectrum, if you look atsymptoms of autism, you'll notice that they
say that they speak with the stiltedspeech and kind of monotone. So stilted,
mean though, do what? Idon't know it stilted me. I
think it's kind of like robotic ina way. So you know, I
keep for getting around the podcast andI keep just like chewing into the microphone.

(22:49):
It's upon this episode, all right, So let's recap season five.
The reason why we want to recapseason five is because we talked about a
variety of different kinds of sex crimes. So we'll kind of go through instead
of going through each episode, we'llgo through the phases to make life a
little bit easier. Because it wasa thirteen part series, so that you

(23:12):
did amazing on so so I thought, I thought it came out okay.
So with that, let's start withPhase one sextortion. In the beginning,
it was Ashlyn Lexi Paris, andthen we heard from Tatum who was in
the beginning or who was in theoriginal Miriginal series. Yeah, so what

(23:34):
are the biggest takeaways that you gotfrom Phase one? Amanda? You know
what, I really didn't. Iwas not too aware of sextortion before we
started really diving into it. Yeah. I feel like I learned personally a
lot this whole season of what itis, who it harms, like,

(23:56):
It's not just the whole AI thing. Yeah, like the deep fakes,
the deep fakes, like the darkWeb, Like I of course I knew
like dark Web and all that kindof stuff, but just the extremes that
people go to to mentally harm somebodythey don't even know, Like, it
just boggles my mind. That's whyI really loved that we touched on it.

(24:21):
It was a hard it was reallyhard topic to talk about. The
season, very stressful, extremely stressfulreally like on the back end of it
as well. Yeah, there wasso much stress and things that only the
ones who know about the case.I had to watch and see and emails
we got. I mean, itwas this was a really difficult season.

(24:42):
The last email that we got fromthe perpetrator was the death threat, so
fortunately, but also probably not anymorenow that I'm talking about it, we
haven't received any more emails from him. I'm wondering if the why. Oh
maybe either it was a death threatthat we read as a death threat and
they were actually trying to say,Okay, well the website's going to die.

(25:04):
Cool the whole black webbing. Thatwould be great, dude. If
you can do that, then you'vepretty much, you know, given us
our goal. But at the atthe same point, I personally, and
that's one reason why I wanted tosay that a lot of people don't understand

(25:25):
what happens in the back back endof these podcasts. You know, I
can tell you for sure that Ispend about forty hours a week just helping
to produce an episode. It's notjust reading from a script, it's not
just finding the right music, which, by the way, the reason why

(25:45):
I do use music is not justto like help cover up background noise that
I can't get rid of. ButI'm one of those where I am very
linear in the way I can describethings or receive things. If you were
to tell me that you're pregnant,for example, I would need further context
before I know to congratulate you ortell you that I'm sorry. If you

(26:07):
were to tell me on a podcastthat you're pregnant without me seeing your face,
I'm going to need to hear somebackground music to tell me whether I
should be happy for you or not. Even if you were like I'm pregnant,
I would need to know if that'sa happy sigh or a sad sigh,
you know what I mean. Yeah, but yeah, that was slightly
off topic, but it did kindof have a part of my point.

(26:30):
There were a lot of people withinthat case that we're assuming that this was
our day job. It's not.This is a hobby. Yeah, this
is something that we do because ait is fun to create and make things.
But two, we really really wantto help people. We don't have
savior complex. But I am somebodythat has been a victim of a crime,

(26:52):
Okay, and I've been through I'vedone seen a lot of shit in
my life, and I just wantto do whatever I can to give back
to whatever or whoever it is thatwas able to give me chance after chance
after chance to continue to keep living. I want to be able to help
others avoid what I've been through,or be able to protect themselves or come

(27:14):
up with an escape plan something right. So when people say things like,
you know, like assume that thisis a job, or assume that we're
doing this to get plays or downloads, it's extremely hurtful. But how do
you combat that and talk to thesepeople, especially if they very unfortunately were
one of the victims or a coupleof the victims of the crime being perpetrated.

(27:38):
I understand that they have a lotof things that they've been tackling,
and they will project that onto otherpeople. But sometimes you have to deal
with that on the back end,and you're not sure what to do,
so you have to be silent andmove on and continue to help them in
silence. So, yeah, thatwas a really difficult, difficult case.

(28:02):
I'm very very thankful that Tatum broughtit to our attention. I think that
we've made we've learned a lot oflessons with that just that case. What
would you think? I absolutely agree, I think we've learned. That's so
I say it earlier. I thinkwe learned a ton from that case.
Good things, bad things. Imean, no more group chats, no

(28:30):
more group chats. It's it's notlike it's just too hard to keep up
with for the both of us.Yeah, because we do have lives outside
of podcasting. That's not our fulltime gig. Like it's we're we're we
have a platform to try to helppeople, Yeah, and we can only
do the best we can do.I mean, we're not law enforcement.

(28:52):
We're We've never said that either.We're not we're out law enforcement. We
aren't doctors. Where we can,we can assume, and I'm not afraid
to admit that. I will assumetill I'm blue in the face whether somebody's
a narcissist or not, because I'veseen it first. But I'm not going
to be I'm not going to sitthere and even remotely pretend that I'm licensed
to diagnose anybody. I'm also notlicensed to capture somebody or apprehend somebody.

(29:18):
What I can do is use myloud ass voice and speak up for those
that need the perpetrator captured. AndI will not stop so that it is
what it is. But with that, I mean, yeah, this isn't
a job. This is something thatwe do because we want to help.
And I don't know how many moreways that we could say that and express

(29:38):
that, but there it is.You know, we just want to help
and that's purely it. So yep, but yeah, sextortion, that's a
very terrifying crime. My quick tipfor everybody is keep your kids off the
internet, period, point blank dot. Do not post pictures of your kids,

(29:59):
no matter how old, no matterhow young, because these perpetrators are
a lot more advanced than you thinkthey are, and they will if they
really want to, they will takethose in deep fake them into photos that
you do not ever want to evenimagine. And we saw it happen.
I mean we didn't see the actualphotos, but we've seen it. We've
seen and heard about it happening.So any more takeaways from phase one before

(30:23):
we continue? No? Okay,So in phase two, we spoke with
several victims of Adrian Ville Dusea fromthe original Minding the Bee Hive. Tell
me what your takeaways are from that? You know what, I'm really glad
that we did this. Having back, you know, not just Tatum,
but Holly and Kitty and else.Do we have back? There's another one,

(30:48):
Kitty, and we also spoke withKatie. She was actually not in
the original series, but she hasbeen there from the very beginning a dating
for Grace, which, if youguys remember from Minding the Behi Grace was
part two of that entire series.She has not been active, I mean,

(31:10):
she's been active behind the scenes.But Grace has had a lot of
really cool life changes happening ever since, and I'm very happy for her.
I'm not at liberty to say what, but just know that Grace has living
her best life right now. ButKatie was there, and she was talking
from her own perspective and wanting toalso really drive the point of empathy and
ethics and advocacy home, and I'mso so thankful that she was willing to

(31:36):
participate in that. Absolutely also tohear also to hear from Holly and Kitty,
oh man, it was so goodto hear from both of them and
hear how well they're doing after thefact. Were there any highlights within both
of those episodes that you can recall? So I loved hearing obviously from all
of them. I love hearing everyinterview that we do. I will say

(32:00):
it was so nice to hear backfrom Holly and all the great things that
are is going on in her liferight now. Yeah, but I really
loved hearing back from Kitty. Sheshe was clearly traumatized. She was she
was very you know, traumatized bythe whole situation that she went through.
And it's it's so good just tosee them both thriving kind of after the

(32:27):
situation. And I mean, it'snot over yet, and that that's where
it's it sucks, is that it'snot fully Is it ever fully over for
them? I mean it's honestly likeyou're no, it's something was told to
me the other day. Is likeit never gets better, but it does
start to get easier. It's likegrieving a death. Yeah. But what
I'm what I'm hoping for is whileit gets easier and while their life continues

(32:52):
to turn this like complete one eighty, I am also hoping and praying that
Adrian bille du say Had never seesthe lie to day again, because they
will. He will do something,he will screw up, and he's probably
listening because that's who he is.He likes to listen and learn about himself.
I don't know that, but heloves just you know, take notes

(33:12):
about his favorite pastime. We're gonnaWe're gonna see the day come where he
is locked up and won't nobody lethim out. And that is a song
from somebody that's sang in the latenineties early two thousands. I'm locked up,
No let me up anyway. Andthen we talked to Mama d Oh

(33:35):
my god, yes, mom,this was such a good episode. Yes,
yeah, Mama Dye really brought it. She did everything that I only
wished that she would do, andI knew she was going to kill it,
but she brought that empathy and compassionand told gave her mom like advice

(33:55):
and was pretty much there to beeverybody's best friend and in a moment where
they needed it. And I gottatell you, like I said, we
don't really care about like downloads andplays, but her episode actually got pretty
much more downloads and plays than anybodyelse's there for weeks right there. And
that's a good thing because that meanspeople were actually listening and engaged with her.

(34:17):
Yeah, well that's amazing. Yeah, we did you have any valuable
feedback from that you took away fromthat episode? I listened to so much
I get I will start getting themall confused. Yeah, that's my well,
we love your mama. I hopeyou're listening. Yes, yes,
and then we'll go away the lasttime we have her on for something.

(34:37):
No, it's not going to bethe last time. Maybe we'll have her
on for another Knots and the variouscriminals that we may or may not keep
going. You, I think weshould rebrand Notts on Various Criminals just a
bit. We gotta change it upa little bit, you know. Yeah,
it gets kind of old, pretendingthat we're not there. You just
okay, trade secrets, guys.Yeah, we've been pretending that we've don't

(35:00):
realize we're on Oh my god,sidebar, sidebar. Okay, this is
this is the episode where we're goingto do that. It's the narrow divergent
in me. But I don't knowwhy this reminded me. But I've been
ordering a lot from Taco Bell lately, and I just need to give everybody
an insider tip. We all knowand love and cherish the og Mexican pizza.

(35:24):
No, I don't what, Ohmy god. Okay, Anyway,
so back in the day, thoseof us with actual taste really enjoyed the
Mexican pizza from Taco Bell. Theygot rid of it for the longest time,
and then they brought it back,but this time it was like they
slapped it together, didn't care right. I knew that something was different.

(35:47):
After doing a little bit of researchand experimenting, I found the formula to
make the perfect og Mexican pizza.Guys, when you order it, all
you have to do is ask themto put extra sauce that they use for
that particular pizza and extra tomatoes,and you've got their scrimping. Do what

(36:08):
they're scrimping? Oh yeah, verymuch so, and you'll get the o
G shit. It's good. ButI've been ordering that and the grilled cheese
burrito with We're not sponsored Taco Bell, but take a hint, we need
to be. I've also been gettingthe grilled cheese burrito with extra ice and
chicken and al I need to getsomething, you know. I love a

(36:29):
Taco Bell, but I still orderedthe same thing that I did when I
was like five years old, whichis a bean burrito with sour cream.
I don't think it's changing, it'sthat's been ordering it. It's my favorite
thing to eat and I always goand I get one bean burrito with sour
cream and it fills me up,and a sweet tea I don't. I

(36:49):
just eat in a seven layer dessertbar. And for dinner, I made
lemon art a choked chicken and thatsounds good if you would wrap it up
in a burrito. Know I haveextra you can? Can you drop ship
it to me? Real fast?We need like a drone, Yeah,
like the most fancy drones. Itlike goes while I just like, I

(37:12):
just need to really get on thepoint and like just recognize how you make
food and just make it for mereal fast. I don't think we're there
yet. We're getting scarily close,Okay, so let's go ahead and continue
on to phase three real fast.So phase three we talked about various different
types of sex crimes that had occurredwithin various different people that had nothing to

(37:37):
do with either Phase one or Phasetwo. They just we wanted to be
able to give them a platform anda voice. That one was arguably pretty
heavy because you start with Kim Pseudonymwhere she talks about her stepfather had molested
her even like as an adult,like if you're in a power like what's

(37:59):
the word you've got kind of likea submissive versus dominant type of I can't
come up with the word, butyou've got that kind of relationship going.
You've got the dominant one, whichwould be the father figure. And I'm
not talking about like dom subs ordaddy baby, whatever people are. I'm

(38:19):
just talking about in general. You'vegot the father figure and then you've got
the child. You know, Kimwas a full grown adult but was still
being treated like a child, andhe had control over her, and he
was absolutely using manipulation and gas lightingand love vombing and completely you know,

(38:42):
talking her into a corner until shewould like give in, but then he
raped her. That was heartbreaking becauseit's completely, in her own words,
ruined her life. Yea, shehas a hard time to this day maintaining
relationships. She's a classic example ofwhat somebody can go through after such trauma.

(39:05):
Right. Unfortunately, a lot ofcontrol and manipulation prior to the events
that took place too. It waslike she was being groomed to just take
it, you know, and it'shorrible. So we had Kim and then
next we had Ebony. And Ebanyis from Australia and she was victimized several

(39:27):
times with various different forms of sexualabuse and assault, and even at one
point was the subject of revenge porn. Ebany was very calm in the face
of adversity, in the way oflike the way she was interviewed, you
know, you would expect her tobreak down, but it was like it
was almost like she was numb toit and she was not wanting to like

(39:50):
really talk about it, but shewanted to help somebody with her stories.
And we also wanted to highlight thatbecause we tend to, once again thank
Lenny Year and think this is allhappening in America. No, the real
reality is is it's happening everywhere,and unfortunately, every country, every city,
every state, whatever, has differentlaws regarding sexual assault. What was

(40:15):
your takeaway on that one? Iknow you had a lot, you know
what I knew, So it justcoming off of where you say, because
my mind went there, you know, it happens all over the world.
But seeing the statistics in that episodewas a little bit mind blowing of you

(40:36):
know, and I thought men wouldbe higher. Yeah, it because you
we've always been you know, wealways focus on women. Yeah, you
know, and that's because that's primarilywho I know who it happens to.
Yeah, statistically it's more women thanmen, but it does happen to men.
It does happen to men. Iactually thought the men's number would be
higher, to be honest, Butit just puts it into more perspective of

(41:01):
why women are scared to death togo walk down their own street at night.
Like I still do the run tomy car and run back really fast
when it's dark outside. I stillcarry keys between my fingers. I do
that every day. Yeah, it'sit's insane of like I have to have
I carry mace with me now togo walk the dog. Like, and

(41:22):
we live in a suburban area,like we should never feel like we have
to live in a bubble and constantlybe looking over our shoulder. But that's
unfortunately the world we live in.And I hate it. I mean it's
not just being in this world,but raising children in this world. Yeah,
it's scary. I think if Ididn't have children, a lot of
this stuff would not phase you,face me or go through my mind.

(41:45):
I think if I heard about it, it would face me because but at
the same time, I wouldn't beso looking at the maps looking at the
statistics, looking, you know,just being more aware of it. Yeah,
because if it's just me, it'sme, right, I have to
I have kids I have to protect. So it's ye. That was that

(42:07):
was a big shock. So onething I want to kind of bring up
real fast before we move on isso when you said that the statistics,
you thought that they would be higherfor men. The reason why those statistics
are actually low, this is believedbecause they're not being reported exactly. Men,
no matter where you go, arepredominantly raised up to be manly men.

(42:30):
They are not allowed to cry,they're not allowed to express emotion,
they're not allowed to you know,show their their secrets or their vulnerability.
They always have they are always forwhatever reason, they are always raised to
hide that because they don't want tobe seen as a quote unquote whim.
Right. So, and it's alsoshockingly, but also not surprisingly, it's

(42:54):
believed that the statistics for women areeven higher than they're actually being reported because
there is there's a lot of womenwho don't report exactly. There is a
stigma attached to reporting something like that. There's several stigmas, and one of
woman is the fact that you're afraidthat nobody will believe you. And that's

(43:15):
why it's being taught more and moreto always believe and if they if it
turns out they're not telling you thetruth, you can handle it later.
It's better to believe them now andfind out that it's not true later than
to not believe them and something horrifichappens. And absolutely with children, if
a child tells you something, Iknow we're bringing episodes back in, but

(43:36):
if a child tells you that somethingis happening, believe something is happening.
Yeah, children do not make thatup. It is extremely rare where they
will. But there's still a reasonwhy. Where would watching something hearing something?
Yeah, where would they come upwith that? It's natural women,

(43:58):
women, wow, chill gonna havea natural curiosity about things, and they're
going to find out whether you wantthem to or not. That's that's going
to be one thing. Like Iknow how I was as a child,
and like I wanted to know whatthat thing was that my daddy was watching
that I couldn't see, and Ifound out, you know, whatever,

(44:19):
that does happen. But we're notsaying what I'm basically saying is just because
a kid knows what a boob is, for example, doesn't mean that they're
being molested. But if a kidcomes to you and says, hey,
this is happening to me, youreally got to pay attention because why would
they just say that, you know, it is it is very rare that

(44:40):
they're going to lie to you.It does happen, but it's extremely rare,
and that is like I would say, a point zero zero, one
in a million chance, but itdoes happen. But you should always,
yeah, no matter what, youshould believe them, no questions because your
first job as a parent is toor caregiver is to advocate for your child,

(45:05):
period protect them, and you knowthere's always reprimands and you know whatever
that can happen later if it doesturn out they're lying, but it's better
saved than sorry in that case.But yeah, a lot of people are
afraid to report because there is stigmaattached to it. They're afraid of being
seen as not believed because so manyhas told them that they were lying already.

(45:27):
They're afraid of retaliation, and whicha lot of the times they are
threatened retaliation, whether it be oh, I'll kill you or your your mom
or I'll tell everybody in school thatyou wanted it or it doesn't matter.
Like they are always threatened and blackmailed, and some shape or or or the
perpetrator will be like, if youtell anybody, and this has happened before

(45:49):
with some cases, if you tellanybody, I'm gonna have to kill myself.
It'll be your fault. I meanthat there's so many different kinds of
stigmas attached to reporting these things.But that's why I believe and so many
others believe that the statistics are actuallyinaccurate in the sense that they're actually higher
than they're being reported. So yeah, but yeah, looking at the statistics

(46:10):
over the globe was pretty sobering,wasn't it. Jennifer Jennifer's story we listened
to it all together on our wayback through Crime Podcast Festival. What are
your takeaway? Well made the carride really happy? Yeah, this one.
Listening to her interview, I don'tknow how many times my mouth kept

(46:32):
dropping open. Yeah, And Imean it's kind of exactly what we were
just talking about, parents kind ofshoving things off and when kids are telling
them stuff and that it's sad.Jennifer's story really broke my heart. If
you haven't listened to it, golisten to it. If the triggers are

(46:52):
not going to bother you. That'sanother thing with this past season is we
had we always have triggers on allof our all of our episodes, but
last season I feel like was alittle bit more of a yeah, listen,
we understand if you don't want tolisten to this, yeah, like
very much. We don't just needthe numbers or please listen to it.

(47:15):
It is more of a listen atyour own risk, yeah, type of
thing, because there's a lot oftriggers, triggers that I wouldn't even you
don't, You don't. You don'teven know if you have a trigger.
Sometimes until it's it's already it's alreadytalked, it's being talked about. And
her story was just so you don'thear about that every day, No,

(47:37):
you don't, So hearing it justagain puts into the reality of the evil
in this world. Yeah, it'sa hard listen for there the mere fact
that she was sexually assaulted by otherchildren. She was a small child,

(47:57):
sexually abused and assaulted by other children. It's not something that any parent wants
to think about. It's not somethingthat any parent wants to even fathom happening
to their own child or fathom thattheir child could be a perpetrator. But
it is something that the reality is, it does happen. Child on child

(48:22):
sexual abuse is a thing. It'snot a common thing, but it is
a thing, and it's it's avery touchy episode for the fact that you
don't want to He want to empathize, absolutely, empathize with Jennifer. Yeah,
and part of he wants to empathizewith the perpetrator because what happened to

(48:45):
the perpetrator in that case for themto immediately go and do that to another
child. Now, granted, thischild, this perpetrator, this child perpetrator
was what you would consider to beold enough to know better but too young
to understand it. He was Ithink he was like thirteen. He's to

(49:07):
understand he's too young to know todo things that he did right. But
at the same time, like,basically he's old enough to know better.
Oh absolutely, Like you, youhave that sense of empathy and you at
that age where you know right fromwrong. You know, my kids who
are younger would know the difference ofdoing that and not doing that, but

(49:30):
it makes you really want to know, so what we're what was his family
life like to cause him to dosuch a thing? You know what I
mean? I don't want to knowat this point, right and i'd only
imagine, I think that with thatit is. It was such a touchy
episode. It was so hard tolisten to, but it was important because

(49:51):
you know, unfortunately we kind ofhave to be the bearer of bad news.
That's what we do. We're thebearer of bad news. I hate
to be the Debbie Downer here,but we're letting you know, this stuff
does happen. And the one thingthat does happen is child on child sexual
assault. And it's hard to notempathize with that person in some way,
not for what they did, butwhat happened to them. But that made

(50:15):
them, yeah, what made themget to that point. But then you
also have to, you know,empathize with that six year old little girl.
It's it's such a it's such aconfusing and conflicting, heartbreaking story.
Yeah, that you don't know whatto do, you don't know what's the
thing, and as a parent,I can only imagine what you're thinking.

(50:37):
At the same time, though youknow, in my eyes, all of
them, all of the children inthat scenario were victims, but Jennifer was
the one that was the target ofall the victims, and her mom or
whoever in her family should have beenway more present and advocated because wrong is

(50:58):
wrong, period. So it's it'sa hard it's a hard thing to talk
about, and it's hard to like, you know, rationalize, but there
it is, you know. Anyfinal takeaways from that, oh no,
final episode was Rachel. She wasone of Adrian Ville Dussa's latest victims.
Very incredibly proud of her for comingforward and talking to she hers was heartbreaking

(51:24):
because he showed his classic signs ofanimal abuse and cruelty, threatened her by
threatening her her dog, and youknow, she was so afraid of him
that she did not want to sayher cat's names on record. That's pretty
heartbreaking that it's you know, butI'm so incredibly proud of Rachel for coming

(51:47):
forward, and I'm so glad I'vemade a friend out of her. And
then after the I can see thatit's nine o'clock on your face. Sorry,
no, it's okay, we're almostdone. But you know, after
the fact, you know, everybodydid their mic drop, and I gotta
tell you guys, you guys haveto go listen to it, just if
not if for anything else, forthat mic drop. What did you think

(52:07):
of the mic drop? I gottaknow, because that thing was awesome.
You know what? What I'm realizingas we're talking about this, I haven't
listened to Rachel's completed oh girl,and you need to. You need to
go listen to it. I thoughtI had listened to all of them,
but when you were talking about Rachel's, remember I remember I remember recording Rachel.
She was the finale. Yeah.Yeah, I haven't listened to that

(52:30):
one. But have you ever listenedto the mic drop? Because I know
I sent it to you before,did you I didn't hear it? Yes
I did, said dah, thatwas a long time ago. Yeah I
did. I sent you They atleast like yeah, yes, No,
that was amazing, super powerful.I love the mic drop because it's super
powerful because the victims get the lastword. Yeah, so, which should

(52:52):
be the case exactly. That's whyI tell everybody you got listen the finale
because there's a mic drop. Yougotta hear them. They are going to
get the last word. I amgoing to allow of them to do that.
And I loved it because like everytime I would interview them, I'd
be like, Okay, do youhave any final words for your perpetrator?
If so, just go at it, and then I would just sit down.

(53:13):
So it was fun. It wasfun to see that look of satisfaction
on their faces because they got itout. I'm glad you ahead let them
do that. Of course I would. I would do that for anybody.
Want you want to micdrop of yourown, if you guys are ever on
our podcast going forward, I'm notgonna sit there and be like, do
you want a micdrop? But ifyou want a mic drop, just be
like, hey, can I geta mic drop in there? Cops,

(53:34):
So fucking lutley, let's go.Let's do it whatever gives you closure and
peace in that moment. I'm forit real fast. Before we conclude this
episode, this bonus episode, realquick, I want to kind of let
everybody know and Amanda and I bothhave finished recording the first four episodes of
season six, and I'm gonna kindof go ahead and give you a pre

(53:59):
trigger warn the first three episodes andthen another trigger warning for the fourth one.
I will actually give the trigger warningfor the first three as kind of
a teaser, and then I'll allowAmanda to give the trigger warning for the
fourth. Okay, so I'll gofirst. The first three episodes are about
one case. It is a multipartcase. It is surrounding the case of

(54:22):
Mariah Lee Gardner. That case wasbrought to me by Holly Murphy, who
you guys have heard from in bothThe Mining Mining the Be Have series.
Her case is heartbreaking. If youcannot handle hearing about the murder of a
child, then I would go aheadand just let y'all notice skip ahead three
episodes. However, if you dolike to listen to the psychology behind the

(54:46):
Predator, then I would encourage youto listen because it is a fucking wild
ride. That is why I decidedthat that was going to be a three
part episode and not just a onepart. So trigger warning, child murder,
and Amanda, you go ahead andtalk about four. Okay. Four
is going to be Leon Laurels.He was murdered. I'll go ahead,

(55:14):
and he murdered. He was murderedin a nineteen ninety six what was believed
what we know is true to bea hate crime because he was a gay
man who lived in Central Texas andthat really wasn't okay for Brownwood, Texas
at the time, right, Sohe was murdered and his car was set

(55:37):
on fire, and his niece Arlenehas been really, really really trying to
get some kind of justice for him, which he deserves, his whole family
deserves. She's amazing. We mether at the True Crime Podcast festival.
During the Pride parade, we gaveaway a lot of swag with his name

(55:58):
on it, so everybody was walkingaround that parade with their purple bags for
Leon. Just we would love toget more information out there so his family
are lean and can have justice,enclosure, I mean something for this family.

(56:19):
Yeah. I would say that thetriggers for this would be hate crimes
and discussion of tangent. No you'regood, No, please go off on
a tangent because it needs to betalked about. Frankly, it doesn't need
to be talked about. And butthe trigger is like, we will be
talking about a white supermacist group andhate crimes against the LGBTQ plus community,
as well as the fact that LeonLaurelis was Hispanic living in Central conservative Christian

(56:45):
Texas at the time. So I'msorry, I'm he was murdered. I
don't know what everybody else is goingto believe, but I do know that
he was murdered and it was ithad to have been a hate crime from
what everything I heard, and I'mreally really saddened and disappointed that there was
not more coverage on this prior towhen all of us got to know Arlene.

(57:07):
So and that's all I have.Do you have any final words?
Do you want to sign us offwith anything? I will say our first
three season, our first three fourepisodes are all based in texts. They
are Do we have a theme season? No? No? What are we
doing? So this season six isnot going to be themed. We are

(57:30):
not the podcast that will stick toa theme. We do usually talk about
marginalized communities that have been deemed especiallyvulnerable that have crimes happened to them,
either about that or you know whatever. But we also typically stick with like
a sexual assault element based off ofthe fact that sexual assault is extremely prevalent

(57:53):
anyway, but also because this isnot me tunting my own horn, I
just happen to have a lot ofknowledge about sexual assault statistics, which once
again I hope you'll get to hearthat interview. I hope it happens,
but you'll you'll understand it a lotmore if that interview occurs that I talked
to about in the beginning. Butbut yeah, that's that's our podcast.

(58:15):
We don't have a specific theme.We just like to talk about lesser known
crimes and crimes against those deemed especiallyvulnerable. And it just so happens Texas
is very big. Yeah, thisseason is going to be surrounding lesser known
cases that don't get it talked aboutenough, brand new cases that happened just
this year, which is basically Mariah'scase, where there's going to be a

(58:38):
lot of update companion type of episodesas well, such as we're gonna be
planning on talking to John Palmer againso y'all will hear from them. I'm
gonna plan on getting ahold of theLandry family and kind of do a refresher
flash revisit episode on Jason Landry.We've got so many things planned and once

(58:58):
again, you know, and ifArs Nightmare is not going anywhere, we've
only got nowhere else to go butup. So that's it I will do.
I will pay some honor to ourold school episodes, because we have
celebrated over one hundred episodes already andwe are over two years old now and
we are not that listen notes reallymatters, but we are now in the

(59:21):
top one point five percent. Welllook at us, and we were on
New a Noteworthy on Apple, sowe were Now we're number We're the last
one on New A Noteworthy now,so that means that we've made our rounds.
But maybe we'll make it on Spotify. Who knows, we'll make it
in the editorial hinten, who knows? Hint? Maybe not. Maybe we'll

(59:43):
be at crime Con. We don'tknow, maybe we'll manifested into existence.
But anyways, Yeah, and topay honor to our original episodes. Obviously,
be vigilant from when you mess withthe bees, you get the hive,
but also don't be a dick andwhere deodorant? You like what we
did there, Maranda, it feelsgood, good, It feels good to

(01:00:06):
be old. It feels good tobe old. I counted fifteen gray hairs.
Did you really I have an eyebrowgray hair? Oh? I have
them all in like I have somein my hair too, And I'm sorry
I'm tearing for this, but Ihad this really long on one. I'm
too young for this. Okay,bye, guys, thank you for listening

(01:00:29):
to a Nefarious Nightmare. Music usedin the theme was originally by ghost Stories
Incorporated, remixed by Ryan rc XMurphy. Additional background music is provided by
Epidemic Sound and Nefarious Nightmare is scripted, researched, and produced by Courtney Fenner
and Amanda Cronin. I'm Leney Hobbsand as always, be vigilant for when

(01:00:50):
you mess with the bees, youget the hive.