June 17, 2020 • 38 mins
What's it like to collect news footage in a brothel while wearing full PPE in 93ºF (34ºC) heat and 90% humidity? During the pandemic, Bangladeshi video-journalist Salman Saeed has been taking on the near impossible to bring the news you need to the safety and comfort of your air conditioned living room.
Links to Salman's work:
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/densely-populated-bangladesh-faces-immense-infection-control-challenge
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/26/asia/daulatdia-bangladesh-brothel-as-equals-intl/index.html
https://www.itv.com/news/2020-04-27/retailers-withhold-2-4bn-from-bangladeshi-factories-as-coronavirus-dents-sales/
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-52417822
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/04/asia/refugees-stranded-rohingya-bangladesh-intl-hnk/index.html
Want to see photos of Salman in action?
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And if you have a suggestion for the show, by all means get in touch. Until our website is up and running you can contact me at www.kelleyslynch.com
The theme music is Fragilistic by Ketsa
licensed under CC BY NC ND 4.0
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kelley Lynch (00:01):
Hey, Tanvir How are you?
Cindy Sealls (00:02):
Hey Tanvir.
So, how's the weather over theretoday?
Obaidul Fattah Tanvir (00:06):
Hot as usual.
It's almost nine here in theevening.
Still, it feels like 34 degreesand we have a humidity of 90%.
Cindy Sealls (00:16):
What's 34, Kelley?
Kelley Lynch (00:18):
Uh, let me, I'm going to Google that right now.
Okay, Ooh, 93.2 degreesFahrenheit.
90% humidity.
And it's not raining.
Obaidul Fattah Tanvir (00:31):
No, it's not raining.
Cindy Sealls (00:32):
That's like you're living in soup.
Obaidul Fattah Tanvir (00:36):
lt feels like that.
And imagine I see people in thestreet walking, wearing PPE.
Kelley Lynch (00:44):
Like full PPE?
Obaidul Fattah Tanvir (00:46):
The whole thing- the cap, the shoe cases,
too.
And the, you know, it's kind ofa jumpsuit kind of thing.
So they be, and in this, in thistemperature.
Kelley Lynch (01:00):
That's impossible to imagine.
I mean, obviously that's notrequired, but is there some sort
of PPE that is required like amask or anything?
Obaidul Fattah Tanvir (01:13):
A mask is mandatory.
Two days back government healthofficials said that anybody
going out has to wear a mask andif they don't, they will be
fined.
Something like a hundredthousand Dhaka, which would be
like something like$1,200.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Oh my God.
So you never saw anybody withouta mask.
Obaidul Fattah Tanvir (01:34):
You do see people without masks, but if
they catch you, you're doomed.
Cindy Sealls (01:40):
Who in the world can pay$1,200?
Obaidul Fattah Tanvir (01:45):
For most of the people in walking in the
street, that's like your salary.
Cindy Sealls (01:49):
But you just said, there are people with no masks.
Obaidul Fattah Tanvir (01:53):
Yes.
Bangladeshi people are truebelievers in freedom.
And when government imposes afine or anything, they challenge
it by not doing it.
Kelley Lynch (02:04):
I remember very well, your explanation that
Bangladesh was the only trulyfree country on earth.
Obaidul Fattah Tanvir (02:10):
Yeah.
Cindy Sealls (02:12):
I think we have some Bangladeshis here.
I'm just saying that folks don'twant to wear a mask.
They will not wear a mask.
I love that.
That's interesting because youknow, we always think that we
have a monopoly on freedom overhere.
Our US folk, you know, everybodyelse's is tied down, but here we
(02:35):
have individually celebrateindividual freedom.
So it'd be, I think it would begood for them to know that other
people feel the same way aboutindividual freedom, that we
don't have any kind of monopolyon that mindset.
Kelley Lynch & Obaidul Fatta (02:56):
Hi I'm Kelly Lynch.
Hi, I'm Tanvir.
Kelley Lynch (03:00):
Welcome to a new normal a podcast about how we're
adapting to the pandemic andwhere we go from here.
Our guest today is someone site.
Someone is a freelance videojournalist.
He works for BBC, CNN, PBS, andmost of the networks you're
likely to see on your televisionscreen.
Whenever you see reports fromplaces like Bangladesh, it's
(03:22):
people like Salman who are goingout to get those images to help
you make sense of the world fromthe comfort of your living room.
Hey Salmon, welcome to thepodcast.
Salman Saeed (03:35):
Thanks.
Thanks Kelly
Kelley Lynch (03:38):
I guess it's been about three months now, since we
saw you at that coffee shop inDhaka.
And at that point, I think youwere just hanging around,
waiting for work to come in.
And, um, nobody knew what wasgoing to happen.
Life has changed a lot for yousince then.
Salman Saeed (03:57):
It's been crazy.
Normally, you know, when thesebig crises or any great
emergency takes off, you know,in the region, I'm very busy or
people like me really like, um,we are like newsman you,
whatever you say, VJ News ninjasor in, in terms of some people
(04:18):
call us like vultures.
You know, there is a crisis, youknow, we are like, like vultures
going around after that.
But this time it was not likethat.
You know, this is somethingdifferent, different kind of
crisis where you're not allowedto get out of your house where
you're not allowed to go inpublic.
(04:39):
You're supposed to stay insocial distancing.
And then you worry about yourfamilies when you come back home
and you're putting up yourfamily in dangerous, because I
don't stay alone.
I have a mother staying with mein the same flat and then, you
know, talking to differentnetworks, being a freelancer for
the last two years, been crazy.
(05:02):
The networks I work with are allinternational ones who are like
BBC, CNN, PBS, ABC.
Most of them what happened isthey're all focused on the
stories, um, in their domain,right, in their part of the
world.
So Bangladesh was not like, youknow, badly affected in terms of
(05:25):
global context.
I do understand, but we stillhave lot of issues to think
about.
How will we manage the bigeconomic recession that's
coming.
We are going to check how thepeople, you know, not everyone
has the savings, you know,people living under the poverty
line, like the garments workers,like the sex workers, and then,
(05:50):
you know, migrant workers whosell all their land and
everything, just to earn a bitof money, to have a better
future for their families.
So it's difficult, you know,these people go and work abroad
and now they don't have any job.
They don't know how to comeback.
Kelley Lynch (06:10):
Tell us about some of those.
I mean, because I saw you did astory on remittances and that,
that is such a huge part of theeconomy for Bangladesh.
What were some of the storiesthat you were seeing there?
Salman Saeed (06:26):
It was interesting this time.
The network I was filing, thatstory was CNN and then their
strict restriction was you can'tgo out of the home.
They have a travel ban still nowgoing on.
So CNN doesn't let any of theirfreelancers go out in the field
(06:46):
unless it's like absolutelyneeded.
And so, because I needed to talkto these people and we, I have
to make it look visual.
So it was very difficult.
You know, when I figured out away to communicate with these
people who are living in theGulf countries, like Kuwait,
(07:09):
Saudi Arabia.
I spoke to a couple of peoplewho were stuck in a jail in
Kuwait.
These are called detentioncamps.
So one guy was very smart.
He had a s martphone and he usessome kind of app.
And he communicates with hisfamily or he communicates with
(07:33):
the journalist in Bangladesh.
So I reached out to him and hewas telling me all these
stories, the problems they arefacing.
They were protesting this campin Kuwait and then police were
firing at them with tear s hellsand rubber bullets.
And then they were not in anykind of social distancing.
T hey were 26 people living inthe middle of nowhere in the
(07:56):
desert, in these detention campswaiting to go back to their
home.
But t hey're like 26 peoplesitting in one small container
type homes.
And, you know, it'sunbelievable.
I'm sitting in Bangladesh in myflat and I can see everything
that they're going through.
They don't have a properwashroom or a hygiene place to
(08:18):
sleep.
So it's difficult when you seeall these things and you feel
like you're helpless.
You can't even do anything otherthan just convince them to talk
with you and tell get theirstories out in the world.
So there were people from Libya,Egypt, India, Nepal.
(08:39):
People were there in that camp.
They were not positive, but, whoknows, there was not enough
testing.
But one story I still rememberand I'll remember for the rest
of my life while interviewingthose people in that camp was a
worker from from Bangladesh.
(09:00):
He was a diabetic patient and hecouldn't go for his dialysis f
or days or weeks.
When I was talking with him, hewas like crying.
And then he was telling me"Brother I'm I'm from a very
good family.
My family are like member ofparliament in Bangladesh." And
(09:21):
he gave me the address.
I did make some communicationwith them and told them about
his situation.
But, t wo days before the storypublished he didn't make it.
He passed away.
(09:44):
Bangladesh's economy depends ontwo things, right?
Number one, it's the garments export.
Number two, it's the remittanceowner who sends back his hard
earned money.
They do in these countries inEurope, middle East Gulf
countries.
Kelley Lynch (10:03):
I saw 7 million Bangladeshis work outside
Bangladesh.
And I think the remittancetotals in 2019 were like$18.3
billion.
Salman Saeed (10:14):
It's huge.
You know, I was talking to amother whose son is jobless now
in Bernheim.
And he's a young guy, you know,maybe in his mid twenties.
So he was telling me,"Brother, Icannot send my parents money.
They're old and they cannot buytheir medicine and stuff like
(10:35):
that.
But my mother she loves me somuch.
She doesn't even want to ask mefor money because she knows that
I don't have work.
I can't eat here."
Kelley Lynch (10:46):
So, I mean, there's two kinds of impacts.
So you're staying at home anddoing stories like that.
I mean, that's a psychologicalimpact.
I presume, because I've seenfootage that you did of garment
workers and other people on thestreets and there there's the
psychological impact, but also apotential for infection.
(11:15):
How do you manage all of that?
Salman Saeed (11:18):
So being a cameraman, you know, you can't
stay at home and do all thesekinds of stories, right?
You really need to get on theground.
And so, initially I started withthese stories, then I was like,
trying to figure out how bestcan I go and film and come back.
(11:38):
I was doing my own onlineresearches.
Initially, it was very difficultto get proper mask PPE in Dhaka.
Now we have PPEs all around thecountry.
In the streets, those are thefake ones, but you do get some
original ones.
You just need to look a bithard.
(12:00):
I spoke to my other seniorcameramen who are my mentors in
BBC.
And I did check with them, howare you guys maintaining these,
cleaning and how do you keepyour equipment clean while
they're filming?
Then they gave, they told melike, you know, keep on rubbing
with your wet wipes or alcoholwipes.
(12:20):
Then while filming an interview,you stay six feet away from your
interviewee so that you don'tput yourself at risk and also
the person you're interviewingat race.
The second and third part washow do I return home and then
still stay safe because I have amother who hasn't been outside
(12:43):
for the last three months.
Traveling was a big challenge.
I would drive myself and go tothese places.
I was going in the field intothese protests of garments
workers.
Then I was going in the garmentsfactories that were shut down.
Then there was some protests,random protests in the roads.
Kelley Lynch (13:05):
What were those protests?
Salman Saeed (13:06):
These were basically, you know, some orders
canceled or stocks that weremade by the factory owners in
Bangladesh for the brands in USand UK or Europe, all these
orders were canceled.
And they're also going to a bigfinancial crisis- these factory
(13:28):
owners?
So they were having difficultiesto pay their workers.
So that was one of the reasonwhy these workers came on the
street to protest.
They wanted their full salary.
Then they wanted to have theirjob, but factories are being
closed because of Western brandsor retailers just c anceled
(13:53):
orders without m eeting anyethical laws or anything like
that.
Obaidul Fattah Tanvir (13:58):
We saw footage of somebody you were in
their rally or something.
And there were these governmentworkers sitting in the street
and they were yelling at you.
Salman Saeed (14:10):
So, you know, these protests are very
difficult to handle becauseright now you cannot go in the
crowd and be in the middle ofit.
And you cannot be, you have tobe invisible.
But with wearing this big PPE,it's hot inside, it's fully
waterproof.
It's like an oven inside.
(14:30):
But this one, the film you'veseen they're having a peaceful
rally and going towards theowner's house to continue this
protest.
T hese workers also, they wantto tell, let their stories be
heard and told.
What happened was that they hadsome ring ringleaders.
Any protest, there are someorganizers, I went a little bit
(14:54):
close to them, but I just softlytold him I'll be here, but h e's
m ake sure n o, no one comesclose to me and I'll talk to you
- all of you.
So then when you start talkingto one person, you know, someone
else, some other guy becomesexcited and say, Oh no, you
know, I have this thing to say.
You said that.
You say that.
It becomes chaos.
(15:15):
And then, I raised my hand andsay I'm going to stop filming
and I'm going away.
If you don't keep six feet orthree feet distance, I'm not
going to stay here.
I did make some people upsetwith stories.
You know, there is always agroup who will never be happy
with your stories.
So I was speaking to some otherworkers and then that lady was
(15:38):
shouting.
And then I quickly turned mycamera to her.
And then she was just basicallyshouting at me and saying,
"Government has alreadysanctioned a fund for the
workers.
Why is our factories beingclosed down?
We have a family to run.
We'll die.
Government has told not a singleworker will be laid off or
(16:01):
anything like that.
So why what's wrong with it?" Sothen the angry crowd was being
controlled by the police.
And then since there was nojournalists there, I was also
getting a bit scared becauseit's tough to be alone in these
kinds of situation.
You always go with somebody whenyou're covering protests.
Kelley Lynch (16:21):
Garments are a huge part of Bangladesh's
economy.
They account for 80% of exports.
Can you talk about that?
Salman Saeed (16:30):
I was covering these garment worker stories
since 2012, when the bigbuilding collapsed or the fire
that took place in Tazri or theRondo Plaza, that was the big
building collapse where morethan a thousand workers died.
Since then, the whole scenarioin the garment sector has
(16:52):
changed with all these safetyand sustainability eco-friendly
factories.
This time, this was anotherthing I was surprised, by
everyone opened their factoriesto us.
"Please come and film, we haveno workers.
We have huge investment, hugefactories." Some factories where
(17:14):
I went was there were 12,000workers working in a single day.
But look at the situation now,it's the brands that need to be
taking responsibility.
They can't cancel these orders.
The whole of the country and itseconomy will be hampered because
everything is interlinked- theseworkers, the money.
(17:38):
It's a big, big industry.
I think it's our own$34 billionindustry in export that
Bangladesh does, which is morethan the Remittances earner, you
know?
Kelley Lynch (17:52):
So are they gone?
Have many of them gone back totheir homes in the villages or
have they stayed in Dhaka?
Salman Saeed (18:00):
A few.
I heard they went, but thepeople I filmed, they said,"How
will we go to our village?
It's a lockdown.
And so there's no way we can goto our village." Most of t he
garment workers I spoke to saythe same thing,"We will die of
hunger than of corona virus." Soit's not only them.
(18:34):
I had another opportunity, youknow, to go to one of the
largest protests in Bangladesh,which is also sealed down.
So a friend of mine, she wasraising some funds to distribute
some relief to the, t hesepeople was like around 1300 sex
(18:57):
workers living in Daloadia and400 children.
Obaidul Fattah Tanvir (19:02):
Sex workers are an outcast in this
country.
So, they are always mistreated.
And I was actually wondering howthey're surviving during this.
It's been almost three months.
Salman Saeed (19:17):
Yeah, by the way, I don't know if you guys have
visited that place.
It's not easy to get access andfilm inside that place with a
camera moving around, talking topeople it's very difficult.
So I knew a bit of background,they were getting some relief
from the government ofBangladesh, but the crisis they
(19:40):
were going through because theylive in these brothels, they
need to go to lot of medical,checkups and treatments, which I
had personally no idea about.
And then I was in my full PPE,double.
I will tell you I was in mydouble PPE.
I had that genuine PPE does theones with that is fully
(20:04):
waterproof.
And then on top of that, I hadanother one just to protect that
PPE.
It was really hot.
Initially, some of them wererefusing to be photographed.
But then at one point, I foundsome ladies who said, okay, I
really want to be photographed.
I don't care.
My family isn't shamed.
(20:25):
They abandoned me.
So then some of them who areborn inside those brothels, now
they're in their twenties.
They even have their kids.
Their stories were, Oh my God,it was heartbreaking.
There was a lady telling me,"Icame here for only two years
though.
I was born here, but I was, Ihad that opportunity to go out
(20:50):
and make a decent living withoutliving this life." But now she
had to come back, but she stillhad a plan to go out of this
place after she has paid all herdues and have a certain amount
of savings.
And then she tells me, you know,we didn't know this kind of
situation would come.
Otherwise we would have savedsome money.
(21:12):
Normally what happens iswhatever they earn, they either
spend on their kids on thefamily or they eat some good
food.
Now they're complaining"We needto eat some meat.
We need to go to doctors.
We need to get our medicines."Because they go through a lot of
drugs like steroids, which arenormally used for cattle to
(21:36):
fatten, f atten the cattle.
Kelley Lynch (21:38):
In order to have more fleshy body or what?
Salman Saeed (21:43):
In order to have a more fleshy body and also to
look more aged because some ofthem are young, so they want to
look much older so that they'llhave more customers.
That's what I was told.
But going around, I was walkingin these small alleys to the
brothel, I met a pregnant woman.
(22:06):
She was also with distresstelling me all the stories,"We a
re scared.
We don't want any customers.
We don't know if they have thevirus or not.
We don't want to put ourselvesat risk." It's really difficult
(22:26):
to do this story.
If I go, I can take risks for mylife, but when I come home, I
have my mother who stays with mein my flat.
Whenever I come from anassignment, it takes me three
hours to disinfect myself and mye quipment.
And then I keep like at leastsix feet distance from my mom
(22:50):
because I don't know what virusI'm c arrying.
I really did get scared when Isaw some of my local j ournalist
friends, they got positive whilecovering it in the story.
So I was always just takingdouble protection.
Even when I was working in thebrothel, at one point I was
(23:13):
breathless because it was humidand hot and I was sweating.
And then my face m ask got allwet and it air was not passing
through.
It was difficult to breathe.
So I had to get out of it t hebrothel much earlier than I was
(23:37):
thinking.
Then they was telling us, thankyou for coming and getting our
stories out.
And I said no, thank you fortelling me.
I'm sorry that I can't help youfinancially, but that's not our
job.
Our job is to get your voice outin the world.
Obaidul Fattah Tanvir (23:56):
Working in the brothel is difficult
because then you're torn apartbetween being a journalist and
an individual.
How do you manage this emotionaldilemma?
Speaker 6 (24:07):
It comes with years of experience, but even I went
to these traumas.
I even tried to stop filming atfew points when I used to hear
these sad stories.
You go through PTSD.
That's a fact.
And I do make prayers for thesepeople I've interviewed.
I do get blamed that, okay, I'mselling poverty and then I'm
(24:28):
making money.
What happens to them?
But, I'm doing my job.
I know it's not right.
Getting somebody's misery out inthe media.
And then that brings food to myplate, but somebody has to do
this dirty job.
Somebody has to go and film theRana Plaza collapse.
(24:52):
Somebody has to go and power thecycle.
And somebody has to go to thisand bury people who are dying of
COVID-19 right?
So somebody has to do take upthis job.
Otherwise, what will happen?
Will they just be lying aroundtheir unheard untold?
That's kind of, I think that'smore doing injustice to these
(25:15):
people.
Salman Saeed (25:25):
Right now, I know that I have to live with it.
So for me, it's watch somereally funny comedy movies, try
to get my mind diverted.
Normally I used to go a ndtravel earlier.
(25:45):
But since with the travel b an and everything is bad, my
swimming pools w ith t ubs a rec lose.
Health clubs are so I c an'tswim.
It's very big problem for me ifI can't swim b ecause that's one
way for me, i t s tands formeditation.
So I moved on with the stories,but one day I do want to return
(26:09):
follow these characters andmaybe do something for them.
Obaidul Fattah Tanvir (26:14):
During this pandemic you have covered a
lot of difficult stories.
If you had a chance to changeone or two things, what will be
your choice?
Salman Saeed (26:25):
It's, it's a very undiplomatic thing probably, but
I don't know if it's right tosay.
We, as a country, Bangladesh wasalways shown as a dependent
country and underdevelopedcountry.
Yeah.
We were always dependent onforeign aid and things, but this
was the first time I see.
There are crisis.
(26:45):
Yeah.
I will not disagree, but youknow, I see a lot of the reliefs
are being distributed and thesefunds are coming within the
country from the rich people.
They're getting money andthey're giving it to the poor
people.
Maybe not all, maybe there arecrisis.
And the change that I thinkBangladesh is going to be clean.
(27:10):
Now people are washing hands.
Every alley there's a wash scene.
People are using handsanitizers.
I was in the market today.
Before you go, people stand inline.
Then they get disinfected intheir shoes.
And everywhere there'santiseptic sprays.
So that's kind of something verynew in our culture.
(27:34):
And staying clean and people arein every step of the society,
people know social distancing.
And I think it's time, if youwant me to, if you ask me to
change, I would love to keep mycity like this, empty traffic.
(27:58):
I wish it's like this.
You know, this is a country.
People here are survivors.
There's the cyclones are hittingthe coastal region every year,
but still the Fishermans aresurvivors.
They will rebuild their houses.
It's a difficult time forfreelancers like us.
I wish we had some kind ofrecognitions in this country,
(28:23):
but here even in the normaltime, we don't have any status
because of senior photographerslike you and you guys have
struggled.
So photographers who like us,who can like proudly tell, we
are photographers so people dorespect us in the society.
(28:45):
I think it's our turn to makethe people in our society also
understand, you cameramen arealso the same kind of
professionals who are notjournalists, but who are also a
key part of journalism and whoare always on the front line
covering stories for the peoplewho are just sitting back in
(29:08):
their couch, in their airconditioning and seeing these
stories.
But the people who are workingbehind the camera are not given
any respect.
The challenge is to stay aliveand healthy, and it's not
(29:30):
encourageable to take, go up andfilm.
If you have to do it, you haveto do it.
But then again, subconsciously,I'm a cameraman who needs film
and who needs to be on theground.
So I figured out my hurdles, andthen I solved them one by one.
Working with the PPE, the speedof the filming slows down.
(29:57):
And it's a big challenge wearingthese gloves, having a mask.
You're talking with people.
They don't see your facialexpression.
And then you are at a distance.
It's a nightmare.
It's a different world.
Once this pandemic is over, alot of people will have l ot of
(30:19):
different stories to tell.
Kelley Lynch (30:20):
Thank you so much for all you do.
Salman Saeed (30:26):
Thank you guys.
Kelley Lynch (30:35):
So guys, I wanted to talk to you about Solomon and
see what you think.
But yesterday, when I wasediting our first take at all of
this, I was really shocked torecognize that basically the two
major pillars of Bangladesh'seconomy have been seriously
(31:01):
impacted.
And I was thinking, where doesBangladesh go from here?
And I think it just suddenlystruck me in a way that it
hadn't before the seriousness ofthe situation.
I mean, what are you going todo?
How are you going to make aneconomy like that work?
(31:22):
And I know Salman's thing wasjust really about journalism and
about the stories and about whathe's finding out there.
But it was like a big aha momentfor me,
Obaidul Fattah Tanvir (31:36):
The picture that we got from Salomon
about the remittance and theremittance worker stuck abroad
and the garment workers in thestreet protesting that they're
not getting paid and things likethat.
It was pretty grim.
It is pretty grim.
And actually it's not that itwill go away soon, but I am not
(32:05):
really disheartened by thiswhole scenario.
As a nation and as a people,Bangladeshi people are
resilient.
You know, like we get back upfrom whatever it is that takes
us down.
This flood, this disaster, thisnatural calamity that happens
(32:26):
every year in some p art of thecountry and people get back on
their f eet and they move on,keep going.
And look at the progress thathas been made in 50 years before
this pandemic started, we w ereprojected to become the fastest
(32:47):
growing economy in the world,but still then people in our
country, they are resilient.
You know, just one smallexample, s treet-side t ailors
who alter your clothes.
Now they're making P PEs.
So this is kind of innovationand adapting to the situation.
(33:12):
So yesterday he was alteringclothes, second hand clothes or
old clothes.
Today, he's manufacturing PPEand selling it in the street.
And people are making masks.
We have this company whichproduces really good quality rum
(33:33):
for export.
So when the export m arketsslumped, they started using that
alcohol that they produce intohand sanitizer.
So I'm worried, but not thatmuch worried because I know o ur
people.
Life has put them through allsorts of miseries, natural,
(33:56):
manmade, anything.
Come out of that and they comeout winner.
Cindy Sealls (34:02):
So, when you all are looking at COVID, you're,
you're saying we've survived allthis other stuff.
What is COVID COVID is nothing.
Okay.
If that's the mindset of theBangladeshi people, how in the
world did they react when thegovernment said you have to stay
home because of the virus.
(34:24):
I mean, were people really upsetby that?
Obaidul Fattah Tanvir (34:26):
People did not pay any attention to
that.
They went out doing their ownbusiness until they were forced
inside the house.
The police forced them to goback to home.
At one point, the military wasin the town ensuring that people
stay at home.
Cindy Sealls (34:47):
So at some point, were you starting to hear rumors
about that this was some kind ofhoax or a conspiracy?
That he government was trying todo this, or did you guys have
that issue there?
Obaidul Fattah Tanvir (35:04):
Yeah.
In the rural area, people aresaying, this is a political
stunt.
There is nothing called virus.
It's not deadly or anything likethat.
Cindy Sealls (35:15):
It's good to know people are just like us.
Consistent worldwide.
I bet.
You know, but I mean, it'sinteresting his, the Bangladeshi
mindset that, that he'sdescribing, I think in a lot of
ways, that's the U.S.
mindset.
What do you think Kelly?
Kelley Lynch (35:35):
Somewhat, but I think having lived there and
lived through things like floodsand cyclones, I mean, albeit in
Dhaka and in comfort, I thinkit's different.
(35:56):
The people who used to work inour house would arrive through
the floods.
Having walked to the house inchest deep water to get to work.
I don't think Americans have toendure that much.
Somebody tells them to stay homeand they don't like to do that.
(36:22):
And if somebody told them to goto work and chest deep water,
they wouldn't like to do thateither.
I think there's a lot of, um,how would you describe it?
Um, there's just not Americans.
Don't like hardship in whateverthey perceive the hardship to
be.
And I think Bangladeshis areused to hardship.
(36:46):
I think they do what they haveto do to survive.
And I think the mindset there isnot like, Oh, I'm going to
complain about it.
Or I'm going to get mad atsomebody about it.
It's just, well, this is what wehave to do.
Obaidul Fattah Tanvir (36:58):
Yeah.
It's, it's very true.
Then it's, it's this thing thatyou get the job done, you know,
you do what you have to dobecause you really don't have an
option of falling back here.
Life is always unsettled.
Life is full of struggle.
(37:19):
So it, it sort of prepares youto take life, head on.
Cindy Sealls (37:29):
Hey there, thanks so much for listening to our
show.
We hope you enjoyed it.
A few did, please leave areview.
Also make sure to share us onwhatever social media platform
you're using.
If you'd like to see photos ofthe people that we're speaking
with, please visit our Instagramfeed at a new normal podcast.
Kelley Lynch (37:51):
And then should you feel so inclined?
It would be great.
If you wanted to share ourpodcast with your friends, tell
your friends about it.
We'd appreciate it.
Thanks so much for listening.
Hey, Tanvir How are you?
Cindy Sealls (00:02):
Hey Tanvir.
So, how's the weather over theretoday?
Obaidul Fattah Tanvir (00:06):
Hot as usual.
It's almost nine here in theevening.
Still, it feels like 34 degreesand we have a humidity of 90%.
Cindy Sealls (00:16):
What's 34, Kelley?
Kelley Lynch (00:18):
Uh, let me, I'm going to Google that right now.
Okay, Ooh, 93.2 degreesFahrenheit.
90% humidity.
And it's not raining.
Obaidul Fattah Tanvir (00:31):
No, it's not raining.
Cindy Sealls (00:32):
That's like you're living in soup.
Obaidul Fattah Tanvir (00:36):
lt feels like that.
And imagine I see people in thestreet walking, wearing PPE.
Kelley Lynch (00:44):
Like full PPE?
Obaidul Fattah Tanvir (00:46):
The whole thing- the cap, the shoe cases,
too.
And the, you know, it's kind ofa jumpsuit kind of thing.
So they be, and in this, in thistemperature.
Kelley Lynch (01:00):
That's impossible to imagine.
I mean, obviously that's notrequired, but is there some sort
of PPE that is required like amask or anything?
Obaidul Fattah Tanvir (01:13):
A mask is mandatory.
Two days back government healthofficials said that anybody
going out has to wear a mask andif they don't, they will be
fined.
Something like a hundredthousand Dhaka, which would be
like something like$1,200.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Oh my God.
So you never saw anybody withouta mask.
Obaidul Fattah Tanvir (01:34):
You do see people without masks, but if
they catch you, you're doomed.
Cindy Sealls (01:40):
Who in the world can pay$1,200?
Obaidul Fattah Tanvir (01:45):
For most of the people in walking in the
street, that's like your salary.
Cindy Sealls (01:49):
But you just said, there are people with no masks.
Obaidul Fattah Tanvir (01:53):
Yes.
Bangladeshi people are truebelievers in freedom.
And when government imposes afine or anything, they challenge
it by not doing it.
Kelley Lynch (02:04):
I remember very well, your explanation that
Bangladesh was the only trulyfree country on earth.
Obaidul Fattah Tanvir (02:10):
Yeah.
Cindy Sealls (02:12):
I think we have some Bangladeshis here.
I'm just saying that folks don'twant to wear a mask.
They will not wear a mask.
I love that.
That's interesting because youknow, we always think that we
have a monopoly on freedom overhere.
Our US folk, you know, everybodyelse's is tied down, but here we
(02:35):
have individually celebrateindividual freedom.
So it'd be, I think it would begood for them to know that other
people feel the same way aboutindividual freedom, that we
don't have any kind of monopolyon that mindset.
Kelley Lynch & Obaidul Fatta (02:56):
Hi I'm Kelly Lynch.
Hi, I'm Tanvir.
Kelley Lynch (03:00):
Welcome to a new normal a podcast about how we're
adapting to the pandemic andwhere we go from here.
Our guest today is someone site.
Someone is a freelance videojournalist.
He works for BBC, CNN, PBS, andmost of the networks you're
likely to see on your televisionscreen.
Whenever you see reports fromplaces like Bangladesh, it's
(03:22):
people like Salman who are goingout to get those images to help
you make sense of the world fromthe comfort of your living room.
Hey Salmon, welcome to thepodcast.
Salman Saeed (03:35):
Thanks.
Thanks Kelly
Kelley Lynch (03:38):
I guess it's been about three months now, since we
saw you at that coffee shop inDhaka.
And at that point, I think youwere just hanging around,
waiting for work to come in.
And, um, nobody knew what wasgoing to happen.
Life has changed a lot for yousince then.
Salman Saeed (03:57):
It's been crazy.
Normally, you know, when thesebig crises or any great
emergency takes off, you know,in the region, I'm very busy or
people like me really like, um,we are like newsman you,
whatever you say, VJ News ninjasor in, in terms of some people
(04:18):
call us like vultures.
You know, there is a crisis, youknow, we are like, like vultures
going around after that.
But this time it was not likethat.
You know, this is somethingdifferent, different kind of
crisis where you're not allowedto get out of your house where
you're not allowed to go inpublic.
(04:39):
You're supposed to stay insocial distancing.
And then you worry about yourfamilies when you come back home
and you're putting up yourfamily in dangerous, because I
don't stay alone.
I have a mother staying with mein the same flat and then, you
know, talking to differentnetworks, being a freelancer for
the last two years, been crazy.
(05:02):
The networks I work with are allinternational ones who are like
BBC, CNN, PBS, ABC.
Most of them what happened isthey're all focused on the
stories, um, in their domain,right, in their part of the
world.
So Bangladesh was not like, youknow, badly affected in terms of
(05:25):
global context.
I do understand, but we stillhave lot of issues to think
about.
How will we manage the bigeconomic recession that's
coming.
We are going to check how thepeople, you know, not everyone
has the savings, you know,people living under the poverty
line, like the garments workers,like the sex workers, and then,
(05:50):
you know, migrant workers whosell all their land and
everything, just to earn a bitof money, to have a better
future for their families.
So it's difficult, you know,these people go and work abroad
and now they don't have any job.
They don't know how to comeback.
Kelley Lynch (06:10):
Tell us about some of those.
I mean, because I saw you did astory on remittances and that,
that is such a huge part of theeconomy for Bangladesh.
What were some of the storiesthat you were seeing there?
Salman Saeed (06:26):
It was interesting this time.
The network I was filing, thatstory was CNN and then their
strict restriction was you can'tgo out of the home.
They have a travel ban still nowgoing on.
So CNN doesn't let any of theirfreelancers go out in the field
(06:46):
unless it's like absolutelyneeded.
And so, because I needed to talkto these people and we, I have
to make it look visual.
So it was very difficult.
You know, when I figured out away to communicate with these
people who are living in theGulf countries, like Kuwait,
(07:09):
Saudi Arabia.
I spoke to a couple of peoplewho were stuck in a jail in
Kuwait.
These are called detentioncamps.
So one guy was very smart.
He had a s martphone and he usessome kind of app.
And he communicates with hisfamily or he communicates with
(07:33):
the journalist in Bangladesh.
So I reached out to him and hewas telling me all these
stories, the problems they arefacing.
They were protesting this campin Kuwait and then police were
firing at them with tear s hellsand rubber bullets.
And then they were not in anykind of social distancing.
T hey were 26 people living inthe middle of nowhere in the
(07:56):
desert, in these detention campswaiting to go back to their
home.
But t hey're like 26 peoplesitting in one small container
type homes.
And, you know, it'sunbelievable.
I'm sitting in Bangladesh in myflat and I can see everything
that they're going through.
They don't have a properwashroom or a hygiene place to
(08:18):
sleep.
So it's difficult when you seeall these things and you feel
like you're helpless.
You can't even do anything otherthan just convince them to talk
with you and tell get theirstories out in the world.
So there were people from Libya,Egypt, India, Nepal.
(08:39):
People were there in that camp.
They were not positive, but, whoknows, there was not enough
testing.
But one story I still rememberand I'll remember for the rest
of my life while interviewingthose people in that camp was a
worker from from Bangladesh.
(09:00):
He was a diabetic patient and hecouldn't go for his dialysis f
or days or weeks.
When I was talking with him, hewas like crying.
And then he was telling me"Brother I'm I'm from a very
good family.
My family are like member ofparliament in Bangladesh." And
(09:21):
he gave me the address.
I did make some communicationwith them and told them about
his situation.
But, t wo days before the storypublished he didn't make it.
He passed away.
(09:44):
Bangladesh's economy depends ontwo things, right?
Number one, it's the garments export.
Number two, it's the remittanceowner who sends back his hard
earned money.
They do in these countries inEurope, middle East Gulf
countries.
Kelley Lynch (10:03):
I saw 7 million Bangladeshis work outside
Bangladesh.
And I think the remittancetotals in 2019 were like$18.3
billion.
Salman Saeed (10:14):
It's huge.
You know, I was talking to amother whose son is jobless now
in Bernheim.
And he's a young guy, you know,maybe in his mid twenties.
So he was telling me,"Brother, Icannot send my parents money.
They're old and they cannot buytheir medicine and stuff like
(10:35):
that.
But my mother she loves me somuch.
She doesn't even want to ask mefor money because she knows that
I don't have work.
I can't eat here."
Kelley Lynch (10:46):
So, I mean, there's two kinds of impacts.
So you're staying at home anddoing stories like that.
I mean, that's a psychologicalimpact.
I presume, because I've seenfootage that you did of garment
workers and other people on thestreets and there there's the
psychological impact, but also apotential for infection.
(11:15):
How do you manage all of that?
Salman Saeed (11:18):
So being a cameraman, you know, you can't
stay at home and do all thesekinds of stories, right?
You really need to get on theground.
And so, initially I started withthese stories, then I was like,
trying to figure out how bestcan I go and film and come back.
(11:38):
I was doing my own onlineresearches.
Initially, it was very difficultto get proper mask PPE in Dhaka.
Now we have PPEs all around thecountry.
In the streets, those are thefake ones, but you do get some
original ones.
You just need to look a bithard.
(12:00):
I spoke to my other seniorcameramen who are my mentors in
BBC.
And I did check with them, howare you guys maintaining these,
cleaning and how do you keepyour equipment clean while
they're filming?
Then they gave, they told melike, you know, keep on rubbing
with your wet wipes or alcoholwipes.
(12:20):
Then while filming an interview,you stay six feet away from your
interviewee so that you don'tput yourself at risk and also
the person you're interviewingat race.
The second and third part washow do I return home and then
still stay safe because I have amother who hasn't been outside
(12:43):
for the last three months.
Traveling was a big challenge.
I would drive myself and go tothese places.
I was going in the field intothese protests of garments
workers.
Then I was going in the garmentsfactories that were shut down.
Then there was some protests,random protests in the roads.
Kelley Lynch (13:05):
What were those protests?
Salman Saeed (13:06):
These were basically, you know, some orders
canceled or stocks that weremade by the factory owners in
Bangladesh for the brands in USand UK or Europe, all these
orders were canceled.
And they're also going to a bigfinancial crisis- these factory
(13:28):
owners?
So they were having difficultiesto pay their workers.
So that was one of the reasonwhy these workers came on the
street to protest.
They wanted their full salary.
Then they wanted to have theirjob, but factories are being
closed because of Western brandsor retailers just c anceled
(13:53):
orders without m eeting anyethical laws or anything like
that.
Obaidul Fattah Tanvir (13:58):
We saw footage of somebody you were in
their rally or something.
And there were these governmentworkers sitting in the street
and they were yelling at you.
Salman Saeed (14:10):
So, you know, these protests are very
difficult to handle becauseright now you cannot go in the
crowd and be in the middle ofit.
And you cannot be, you have tobe invisible.
But with wearing this big PPE,it's hot inside, it's fully
waterproof.
It's like an oven inside.
(14:30):
But this one, the film you'veseen they're having a peaceful
rally and going towards theowner's house to continue this
protest.
T hese workers also, they wantto tell, let their stories be
heard and told.
What happened was that they hadsome ring ringleaders.
Any protest, there are someorganizers, I went a little bit
(14:54):
close to them, but I just softlytold him I'll be here, but h e's
m ake sure n o, no one comesclose to me and I'll talk to you
- all of you.
So then when you start talkingto one person, you know, someone
else, some other guy becomesexcited and say, Oh no, you
know, I have this thing to say.
You said that.
You say that.
It becomes chaos.
(15:15):
And then, I raised my hand andsay I'm going to stop filming
and I'm going away.
If you don't keep six feet orthree feet distance, I'm not
going to stay here.
I did make some people upsetwith stories.
You know, there is always agroup who will never be happy
with your stories.
So I was speaking to some otherworkers and then that lady was
(15:38):
shouting.
And then I quickly turned mycamera to her.
And then she was just basicallyshouting at me and saying,
"Government has alreadysanctioned a fund for the
workers.
Why is our factories beingclosed down?
We have a family to run.
We'll die.
Government has told not a singleworker will be laid off or
(16:01):
anything like that.
So why what's wrong with it?" Sothen the angry crowd was being
controlled by the police.
And then since there was nojournalists there, I was also
getting a bit scared becauseit's tough to be alone in these
kinds of situation.
You always go with somebody whenyou're covering protests.
Kelley Lynch (16:21):
Garments are a huge part of Bangladesh's
economy.
They account for 80% of exports.
Can you talk about that?
Salman Saeed (16:30):
I was covering these garment worker stories
since 2012, when the bigbuilding collapsed or the fire
that took place in Tazri or theRondo Plaza, that was the big
building collapse where morethan a thousand workers died.
Since then, the whole scenarioin the garment sector has
(16:52):
changed with all these safetyand sustainability eco-friendly
factories.
This time, this was anotherthing I was surprised, by
everyone opened their factoriesto us.
"Please come and film, we haveno workers.
We have huge investment, hugefactories." Some factories where
(17:14):
I went was there were 12,000workers working in a single day.
But look at the situation now,it's the brands that need to be
taking responsibility.
They can't cancel these orders.
The whole of the country and itseconomy will be hampered because
everything is interlinked- theseworkers, the money.
(17:38):
It's a big, big industry.
I think it's our own$34 billionindustry in export that
Bangladesh does, which is morethan the Remittances earner, you
know?
Kelley Lynch (17:52):
So are they gone?
Have many of them gone back totheir homes in the villages or
have they stayed in Dhaka?
Salman Saeed (18:00):
A few.
I heard they went, but thepeople I filmed, they said,"How
will we go to our village?
It's a lockdown.
And so there's no way we can goto our village." Most of t he
garment workers I spoke to saythe same thing,"We will die of
hunger than of corona virus." Soit's not only them.
(18:34):
I had another opportunity, youknow, to go to one of the
largest protests in Bangladesh,which is also sealed down.
So a friend of mine, she wasraising some funds to distribute
some relief to the, t hesepeople was like around 1300 sex
(18:57):
workers living in Daloadia and400 children.
Obaidul Fattah Tanvir (19:02):
Sex workers are an outcast in this
country.
So, they are always mistreated.
And I was actually wondering howthey're surviving during this.
It's been almost three months.
Salman Saeed (19:17):
Yeah, by the way, I don't know if you guys have
visited that place.
It's not easy to get access andfilm inside that place with a
camera moving around, talking topeople it's very difficult.
So I knew a bit of background,they were getting some relief
from the government ofBangladesh, but the crisis they
(19:40):
were going through because theylive in these brothels, they
need to go to lot of medical,checkups and treatments, which I
had personally no idea about.
And then I was in my full PPE,double.
I will tell you I was in mydouble PPE.
I had that genuine PPE does theones with that is fully
(20:04):
waterproof.
And then on top of that, I hadanother one just to protect that
PPE.
It was really hot.
Initially, some of them wererefusing to be photographed.
But then at one point, I foundsome ladies who said, okay, I
really want to be photographed.
I don't care.
My family isn't shamed.
(20:25):
They abandoned me.
So then some of them who areborn inside those brothels, now
they're in their twenties.
They even have their kids.
Their stories were, Oh my God,it was heartbreaking.
There was a lady telling me,"Icame here for only two years
though.
I was born here, but I was, Ihad that opportunity to go out
(20:50):
and make a decent living withoutliving this life." But now she
had to come back, but she stillhad a plan to go out of this
place after she has paid all herdues and have a certain amount
of savings.
And then she tells me, you know,we didn't know this kind of
situation would come.
Otherwise we would have savedsome money.
(21:12):
Normally what happens iswhatever they earn, they either
spend on their kids on thefamily or they eat some good
food.
Now they're complaining"We needto eat some meat.
We need to go to doctors.
We need to get our medicines."Because they go through a lot of
drugs like steroids, which arenormally used for cattle to
(21:36):
fatten, f atten the cattle.
Kelley Lynch (21:38):
In order to have more fleshy body or what?
Salman Saeed (21:43):
In order to have a more fleshy body and also to
look more aged because some ofthem are young, so they want to
look much older so that they'llhave more customers.
That's what I was told.
But going around, I was walkingin these small alleys to the
brothel, I met a pregnant woman.
(22:06):
She was also with distresstelling me all the stories,"We a
re scared.
We don't want any customers.
We don't know if they have thevirus or not.
We don't want to put ourselvesat risk." It's really difficult
(22:26):
to do this story.
If I go, I can take risks for mylife, but when I come home, I
have my mother who stays with mein my flat.
Whenever I come from anassignment, it takes me three
hours to disinfect myself and mye quipment.
And then I keep like at leastsix feet distance from my mom
(22:50):
because I don't know what virusI'm c arrying.
I really did get scared when Isaw some of my local j ournalist
friends, they got positive whilecovering it in the story.
So I was always just takingdouble protection.
Even when I was working in thebrothel, at one point I was
(23:13):
breathless because it was humidand hot and I was sweating.
And then my face m ask got allwet and it air was not passing
through.
It was difficult to breathe.
So I had to get out of it t hebrothel much earlier than I was
(23:37):
thinking.
Then they was telling us, thankyou for coming and getting our
stories out.
And I said no, thank you fortelling me.
I'm sorry that I can't help youfinancially, but that's not our
job.
Our job is to get your voice outin the world.
Obaidul Fattah Tanvir (23:56):
Working in the brothel is difficult
because then you're torn apartbetween being a journalist and
an individual.
How do you manage this emotionaldilemma?
Speaker 6 (24:07):
It comes with years of experience, but even I went
to these traumas.
I even tried to stop filming atfew points when I used to hear
these sad stories.
You go through PTSD.
That's a fact.
And I do make prayers for thesepeople I've interviewed.
I do get blamed that, okay, I'mselling poverty and then I'm
(24:28):
making money.
What happens to them?
But, I'm doing my job.
I know it's not right.
Getting somebody's misery out inthe media.
And then that brings food to myplate, but somebody has to do
this dirty job.
Somebody has to go and film theRana Plaza collapse.
(24:52):
Somebody has to go and power thecycle.
And somebody has to go to thisand bury people who are dying of
COVID-19 right?
So somebody has to do take upthis job.
Otherwise, what will happen?
Will they just be lying aroundtheir unheard untold?
That's kind of, I think that'smore doing injustice to these
(25:15):
people.
Salman Saeed (25:25):
Right now, I know that I have to live with it.
So for me, it's watch somereally funny comedy movies, try
to get my mind diverted.
Normally I used to go a ndtravel earlier.
(25:45):
But since with the travel b an and everything is bad, my
swimming pools w ith t ubs a rec lose.
Health clubs are so I c an'tswim.
It's very big problem for me ifI can't swim b ecause that's one
way for me, i t s tands formeditation.
So I moved on with the stories,but one day I do want to return
(26:09):
follow these characters andmaybe do something for them.
Obaidul Fattah Tanvir (26:14):
During this pandemic you have covered a
lot of difficult stories.
If you had a chance to changeone or two things, what will be
your choice?
Salman Saeed (26:25):
It's, it's a very undiplomatic thing probably, but
I don't know if it's right tosay.
We, as a country, Bangladesh wasalways shown as a dependent
country and underdevelopedcountry.
Yeah.
We were always dependent onforeign aid and things, but this
was the first time I see.
There are crisis.
(26:45):
Yeah.
I will not disagree, but youknow, I see a lot of the reliefs
are being distributed and thesefunds are coming within the
country from the rich people.
They're getting money andthey're giving it to the poor
people.
Maybe not all, maybe there arecrisis.
And the change that I thinkBangladesh is going to be clean.
(27:10):
Now people are washing hands.
Every alley there's a wash scene.
People are using handsanitizers.
I was in the market today.
Before you go, people stand inline.
Then they get disinfected intheir shoes.
And everywhere there'santiseptic sprays.
So that's kind of something verynew in our culture.
(27:34):
And staying clean and people arein every step of the society,
people know social distancing.
And I think it's time, if youwant me to, if you ask me to
change, I would love to keep mycity like this, empty traffic.
(27:58):
I wish it's like this.
You know, this is a country.
People here are survivors.
There's the cyclones are hittingthe coastal region every year,
but still the Fishermans aresurvivors.
They will rebuild their houses.
It's a difficult time forfreelancers like us.
I wish we had some kind ofrecognitions in this country,
(28:23):
but here even in the normaltime, we don't have any status
because of senior photographerslike you and you guys have
struggled.
So photographers who like us,who can like proudly tell, we
are photographers so people dorespect us in the society.
(28:45):
I think it's our turn to makethe people in our society also
understand, you cameramen arealso the same kind of
professionals who are notjournalists, but who are also a
key part of journalism and whoare always on the front line
covering stories for the peoplewho are just sitting back in
(29:08):
their couch, in their airconditioning and seeing these
stories.
But the people who are workingbehind the camera are not given
any respect.
The challenge is to stay aliveand healthy, and it's not
(29:30):
encourageable to take, go up andfilm.
If you have to do it, you haveto do it.
But then again, subconsciously,I'm a cameraman who needs film
and who needs to be on theground.
So I figured out my hurdles, andthen I solved them one by one.
Working with the PPE, the speedof the filming slows down.
(29:57):
And it's a big challenge wearingthese gloves, having a mask.
You're talking with people.
They don't see your facialexpression.
And then you are at a distance.
It's a nightmare.
It's a different world.
Once this pandemic is over, alot of people will have l ot of
(30:19):
different stories to tell.
Kelley Lynch (30:20):
Thank you so much for all you do.
Salman Saeed (30:26):
Thank you guys.
Kelley Lynch (30:35):
So guys, I wanted to talk to you about Solomon and
see what you think.
But yesterday, when I wasediting our first take at all of
this, I was really shocked torecognize that basically the two
major pillars of Bangladesh'seconomy have been seriously
(31:01):
impacted.
And I was thinking, where doesBangladesh go from here?
And I think it just suddenlystruck me in a way that it
hadn't before the seriousness ofthe situation.
I mean, what are you going todo?
How are you going to make aneconomy like that work?
(31:22):
And I know Salman's thing wasjust really about journalism and
about the stories and about whathe's finding out there.
But it was like a big aha momentfor me,
Obaidul Fattah Tanvir (31:36):
The picture that we got from Salomon
about the remittance and theremittance worker stuck abroad
and the garment workers in thestreet protesting that they're
not getting paid and things likethat.
It was pretty grim.
It is pretty grim.
And actually it's not that itwill go away soon, but I am not
(32:05):
really disheartened by thiswhole scenario.
As a nation and as a people,Bangladeshi people are
resilient.
You know, like we get back upfrom whatever it is that takes
us down.
This flood, this disaster, thisnatural calamity that happens
(32:26):
every year in some p art of thecountry and people get back on
their f eet and they move on,keep going.
And look at the progress thathas been made in 50 years before
this pandemic started, we w ereprojected to become the fastest
(32:47):
growing economy in the world,but still then people in our
country, they are resilient.
You know, just one smallexample, s treet-side t ailors
who alter your clothes.
Now they're making P PEs.
So this is kind of innovationand adapting to the situation.
(33:12):
So yesterday he was alteringclothes, second hand clothes or
old clothes.
Today, he's manufacturing PPEand selling it in the street.
And people are making masks.
We have this company whichproduces really good quality rum
(33:33):
for export.
So when the export m arketsslumped, they started using that
alcohol that they produce intohand sanitizer.
So I'm worried, but not thatmuch worried because I know o ur
people.
Life has put them through allsorts of miseries, natural,
(33:56):
manmade, anything.
Come out of that and they comeout winner.
Cindy Sealls (34:02):
So, when you all are looking at COVID, you're,
you're saying we've survived allthis other stuff.
What is COVID COVID is nothing.
Okay.
If that's the mindset of theBangladeshi people, how in the
world did they react when thegovernment said you have to stay
home because of the virus.
(34:24):
I mean, were people really upsetby that?
Obaidul Fattah Tanvir (34:26):
People did not pay any attention to
that.
They went out doing their ownbusiness until they were forced
inside the house.
The police forced them to goback to home.
At one point, the military wasin the town ensuring that people
stay at home.
Cindy Sealls (34:47):
So at some point, were you starting to hear rumors
about that this was some kind ofhoax or a conspiracy?
That he government was trying todo this, or did you guys have
that issue there?
Obaidul Fattah Tanvir (35:04):
Yeah.
In the rural area, people aresaying, this is a political
stunt.
There is nothing called virus.
It's not deadly or anything likethat.
Cindy Sealls (35:15):
It's good to know people are just like us.
Consistent worldwide.
I bet.
You know, but I mean, it'sinteresting his, the Bangladeshi
mindset that, that he'sdescribing, I think in a lot of
ways, that's the U.S.
mindset.
What do you think Kelly?
Kelley Lynch (35:35):
Somewhat, but I think having lived there and
lived through things like floodsand cyclones, I mean, albeit in
Dhaka and in comfort, I thinkit's different.
(35:56):
The people who used to work inour house would arrive through
the floods.
Having walked to the house inchest deep water to get to work.
I don't think Americans have toendure that much.
Somebody tells them to stay homeand they don't like to do that.
(36:22):
And if somebody told them to goto work and chest deep water,
they wouldn't like to do thateither.
I think there's a lot of, um,how would you describe it?
Um, there's just not Americans.
Don't like hardship in whateverthey perceive the hardship to
be.
And I think Bangladeshis areused to hardship.
(36:46):
I think they do what they haveto do to survive.
And I think the mindset there isnot like, Oh, I'm going to
complain about it.
Or I'm going to get mad atsomebody about it.
It's just, well, this is what wehave to do.
Obaidul Fattah Tanvir (36:58):
Yeah.
It's, it's very true.
Then it's, it's this thing thatyou get the job done, you know,
you do what you have to dobecause you really don't have an
option of falling back here.
Life is always unsettled.
Life is full of struggle.
(37:19):
So it, it sort of prepares youto take life, head on.
Cindy Sealls (37:29):
Hey there, thanks so much for listening to our
show.
We hope you enjoyed it.
A few did, please leave areview.
Also make sure to share us onwhatever social media platform
you're using.
If you'd like to see photos ofthe people that we're speaking
with, please visit our Instagramfeed at a new normal podcast.
Kelley Lynch (37:51):
And then should you feel so inclined?
It would be great.
If you wanted to share ourpodcast with your friends, tell
your friends about it.
We'd appreciate it.
Thanks so much for listening.
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