April 2, 2025 • 36 mins
What does true inclusivity look like in today's music classrooms? Bryson Tarbet takes us behind the scenes of his remarkable journey from rural Ohio music teacher to worldwide instructional coach, revealing the profound challenges and unexpected joys of creating spaces where every student belongs.
Drawing from his personal experiences as a neurodivergent educator and his professional expertise in music education, Bryson shares candid insights about navigating conservative school environments while staying true to his authentic self. His stories highlight both the progress made and the significant work still needed to ensure classrooms welcome students of all neurological differences and identities.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Angelica (00:00):
Bryson Tarbett, a passionate advocate for
inclusive music education,transitioned from a career as a
pre-K through 6th grade generalmusic teacher to a full-time
instructional coach.
With a bachelor's of music andmusic education from Ohio
Wesleyan University and a masterof music and music education
with a Cote d'Alais emphasisfrom Capital University, bryson
(00:21):
brings a wealth of knowledge andexperience to his work.
University Bryson brings awealth of knowledge and
experience to his work.
During his tenure as aneducator, bryson spent a
transformative year as part ofan elementary school
intervention team where hediscovered his passion for
working with students withdisabilities.
Drawing from this experienceand his personal journey as a
neurodiverse individual, brysonadvocates strongly for creating
sensory and emotionallyinclusive classrooms.
(00:42):
Now the founder of that MusicTeacher LLC, bryson channels his
dedication to music educationinto sharing diverse
perspectives on issues relevantto educators nationwide.
He hosts the popular that MusicPodcast, caring specifically to
elementary music teachers, andspearheads the Elementary Music
Summit, a platform forprofessional development and
(01:04):
community building.
Here's our conversation.
Bryson, thank you for joiningus.
Bryson (01:10):
Hello, thank you for having me.
Angelica (01:11):
Thank you.
I think you are the firstteacher that we've had on in all
these years.
It's only been a couple, but Ithink you're the first teacher,
so I am definitely interested inhearing about your experiences.
You are specifically a musicteacher in Ohio, correct?
Yes, what grade level?
Bryson (01:32):
I was a pre-K through sixth grade, general music
teacher.
So a little bit of everything.
Angelica (01:37):
Okay, different instruments.
Bryson (01:41):
We did a lot of vocal.
We did dancing movement.
We did play the recorders whichplease don't come at me.
They're my favorite thing.
They probably a lot of vocal.
We did dancing movement.
We did play the recorders whichdon't please don't come at me.
They're my favorite thing.
They probably just weren'ttaught.
If you don't like it, that'swhere everything was just
creating an explorative way toget kids involved with music.
Cassy (01:54):
All right, Awesome, Just so you know.
So I grew up in Jamaica and therecorder was a huge part.
I remember the first song wehad to learn was Mary had their
little lamb.
I can't play that song on therecorder to this day.
Bryson (02:07):
I love it and that without getting too far out of
base.
Already I have thatconversation nearly every single
time.
I get a haircut or get an Uberand it comes up and it brings up
a recorder and everyone hassuch great memories.
So, as much as I know that alot of the parents are like, why
are you doing this to me?
It's for those conversationsright there.
Angelica (02:26):
I don't even know what the recorder is.
Seriously, I'm so serious.
Cassy (02:29):
Oh my God, you don't know what I record.
You haven't played a record.
Oh my God, I'm going to buy arecorder.
I'm buying a recorder and I'mgoing to play it for you.
Okay, yes, so my marriageprobably weren't ruined, but
we'll see I need a recorder forchristmas.
I can't play that recorder.
Bryson (02:50):
That's the only musical instrument I know how to play
I'm honored to have been able tostart that journey for her so
you say you started out pre-kthrough sixth grade.
Angelica (02:58):
Yes, okay.
And what were you alwaysinterested in?
Music, were you alwaysinterested in teaching?
What was you always interestedin teaching?
What was the convergence ofthose two things?
Bryson (03:06):
Oh, that's a real question that I've done a lot of
thinking about lately.
My parents were both teachers.
We were long I'm a thirdgeneration educator and that
made it a little bit easy to gointo education.
I've been really into music andsinging from a very young age.
My parents basically said thatI've just been singing from the
moment I woke up and here we are.
I took a lot of differentwinding journeys to get to where
(03:29):
I am.
I always thought I was going togo into the music performance
route and be an opera singer,and then I thought I was going
to be a high school choirdirector before I ended up in
the elementary world.
And just recently, at the endof this past school year, I left
the classroom to run myinstructional coaching program
full-time, which is incrediblywonderful, but also never where
I thought I would be.
(03:50):
So it's been interesting to seethe path that has led me here.
Angelica (03:53):
Wow, okay, now that you've said it, I'm dying to
hear you sing.
Can you like give us somethingoperatic?
That would be great.
Bryson (04:01):
I'm not quite sure what we would do, or, honestly, if my
microphone would even let itnot just peek out that's very
robust.
Angelica (04:10):
It's very yes all right, I got you.
What were experiences like asan elementary school teacher?
I we don't have.
There aren't a lot of men inthat field, first of all, and
then also, I honestly I would is.
I don't know if you seeyourself as presenting as gay or
not, but I would imagine thatthere are, just from things I've
(04:35):
seen on news and TikTok, butyeah, that there may be some
parents who have an issue withthat or have who are ignorant
and have concerns about that.
Have you had those experiences?
Bryson (04:45):
Unfortunately.
Yes, that's one of those thingsthat I, when I first started
teaching, I was still very freshin figuring out my identity and
going into the classroom,especially elementary, where,
for one, like you said, thereare very few men that work in an
elementary classroom, so thatalone I was already this odd man
out.
But I also worked in a veryrural school in Ohio and
(05:07):
unfortunately there are somelines that are very tricky to
cross without a lot of supportin your corner.
I will say I've had the vastmajority of my administrators
have been very supportive, butsometimes I've had
administrators that were tryingto be supportive maybe and
things didn't quite go asplanned and, like you said,
there were parents that did notlike the way that I presented in
(05:30):
the world.
I think the big thing thatpeople had problems with me were
some parents was that I wastalking about inclusivity.
I've done a lot of work indifferentiation and inclusion
from the disability andneurodivergent side of things,
but the reality is human,children are human.
We are all so multifaceted.
So while I've never had anyexplicit lessons on sexual
(05:51):
identity or anything like thatin the music classroom, I've
always made sure that it was aplace where everyone can be
there.
When we say music is foreveryone, we mean that, and
sometimes that rubbed someparents the wrong way,
especially as I startedtransitioning into the dual role
of running my company in theevenings and on social media and
getting a following there andthen also being a teacher during
the school day.
(06:11):
Sometimes those things did notsuper interact pretty well and I
don't know.
That's still something I reallyworry about, as just the shape
of education is teachers whodon't feel like they can be
themselves, and that is reallyscary, especially when we are
coming up to an even worseteacher shortage.
Things like that and thingslike the laws and the bills that
(06:32):
we're seeing come in abouteducation here in Ohio.
I just really worry about theripple effects of that and how
my experience which by all meanswas not a terrible experience
how that might be so much worsefor others down the line, and
that's something I have genuineconcerns about and that's part
of the reason that I feel alittle bit more comfortable
(06:54):
doing things through my companybecause I'm no longer a public
servant, so I get to make my ownrules a little bit more and
attract the people that I wantto attract.
Angelica (07:03):
So you mentioned that you work with students with
disabilities or, and youmentioned, neurodiverse
individuals.
Bryson (07:11):
For those who don't know what is neurodiversity, First
of all, that's one of thoselabels where everyone might have
a little bit of a differentopinion on that.
For me, as someone who has ADHDand sensory processing disorder
, my working definition ofneurodivergence is essentially
when our brains work differentlythan the mainstream.
So things like ADHD, autism,sensory issues, things like that
(07:34):
, can fall into that realm.
Angelica (07:36):
Yeah, I think most people think about autism or
being on the spectrum.
That has become a prettypopular topic and pretty
mainstream.
I don't know if you watch a lotof Netflix Atypical is one of
my favorite shows and then theyhave Love on the Spectrum in the
US and Australia.
I don't know if that was anintentional thing to bring more
light to neurodivergentindividuals or what their
(08:00):
participation behind that was,but I think they did a pretty
good job of showing the spectrumthat people can be on and that
people who are neurodivergentare regular people with just
slightly different ways thatthey process and experience the
world or see the world through.
Cassy (08:17):
Yeah, and so you spoke about the bill that they are
passing.
In Ohio.
On November 27th, the governorDY.
He signed a transgenderbathroom ban bill into law,
which restricts transgenderstudents to use the bathroom
that they were assigned at Byrd.
How is that impacting studentsin your district or your
(08:37):
classroom?
Bryson (08:38):
I think the biggest thing that comes to mind is that
place isn't there for peoplewho need it and when that's the
case, for anything, for any sortof you know inclusion or
ability to have, I don't know.
(08:58):
I'm really struggling with thisbecause I've only had a few, a
few experiences as a teacherwhere this would have been a
direct issue for the studentsthat I served.
But I think that even whenthere aren't students that are
served by something like thisBecause one, it doesn't matter,
it's just the bathroom.
That's all that's going on.
That's one of the things thatfrustrates me is this fixation
(09:21):
on things like this that areclearly just vilifying and
scapegoating.
And especially, there are somany bigger issues and bigger
fish to fry in education,especially education in Ohio,
that it really does bother methat this is where we're
deciding to put our focus.
This is the man we're puttingmanpower behind, creating laws,
(09:41):
having committees for this, andmeanwhile we have so many other
issues in how these schools needto work and it just it's really
frustrating because it doesn'tneed to be that way and it's
just not what we should befocusing on.
It's just not that big of adeal for the people that aren't
affected by it and the peoplethat are affected by it.
It is a huge deal, and that iswhat bothers me so much.
Cassy (10:04):
In my previous organization.
We work with HRC and there's aninitiative called the Welcoming
School, which has done a lot ofgreat work around equality in
the schools.
What that does?
It not only protects studentsbut also protects teachers from
being discriminated against inthe classroom.
(10:25):
And it was really enlighteningbecause during my advocacy with
the school board in PreacheryWisconsin, Maryland and you will
be surprised, you knowPreachery, Wisconsin, right next
to DC or Progressive, I'm surethat no, it's socially
conservative, it's a sociallyconservative county and I had a
transgender teacher thattestified about what they
experienced in the classroom,both from students and parents
(10:47):
and our teachers, and why thisinitiative is important.
And, Bryson, I would encourageyou to probably create a
partnership with WelcomingSchool.
We know with this currentadministration the upcoming
administration we may have somechallenges there, but it's very
disheartening to know that wehave students and teachers that
(11:10):
will have to go back in hidingbecause of these bills that are
turning into laws in some ofthese states, Because what's
going to happen is that bullyingis going to get back on 10.
Teachers are going to losetheir jobs, Students are,
suicide rate within the LGBTQplus community is gonna be
escalated and people may thinkthat these things are, they'll
(11:34):
be okay.
No, when you, when the worstthing is not able to be a true,
authentic self, you get in thatspace where you feel so
claustrophobic and it'sdisheartening yeah, I.
Bryson (11:48):
So I had not heard of that organization before, but
you mentioned it right before westarted and I'm really
interested to look into thatmore because it reminds me of
the NEA, the National EducationAssociation.
A few years back, they tried avery similar thing to help bring
the teachers and get resourcesin front of students but also be
visible in it, and they createdessentially, badge buddies that
(12:11):
would go on and had a qr formore information, but it was
more of a I'm a safe person,this is I'm, so I'm here and you
are too, and that's okay.
Um, and it was a huge deal.
It got picked up on the rightwing media and it I don't know.
I just I'm gonna be reallyhonest.
I don't have the words todescribe what I, what my
(12:34):
concerns are for education,especially when it comes to
lgbtq teachers, students,families, because that's that's
another thing that we don't talka lot about.
We have students whose parentsare lgbt, lgbt and we're
supposed to include them, but wecan't talk about them.
It's this whole thing of Idon't know it's.
(12:55):
I promise I'm usually much morewell-spoken than this, but I'm
just, I really struggle with theconcept as a core, so I'm
really excited to look into thatWelcoming Schools and see how I
can support it and how I cansignal, boost it and get it in
front of more teachers.
Cassy (13:10):
Yes, it's very important.
So I had a, so I'm not going tomention the school or the
teacher's name, but in PrinceGeorge's County, maryland, we
were the GSA Gender StraightAlliance.
Do you have that in your school?
Not where I used to be.
Okay, so we, there was a GSA andthere was a student that was a
part of the GSA and her motherdidn't know and we were having
(13:32):
an event and for some reason themother pulled up and told her
that's what was going on, and itwas a whole charade because her
mother was pissed off.
Her daughter was a lesbian orbisexual, whatever she
identifies and the mother didn'tknow.
She didn't know.
She didn't know.
All she knew was that thedaughter was participating in
(13:53):
stuff at school and she phonedout what it was and she showed
up.
She didn't know what GSA was.
They were from Africa and shephoned out what GSA was.
When she came here, she saidshe was going to call the police
on us.
She was going to call thepolice on the school.
She was going to call the newsand school.
She was going to call the newsand she said she'd rather see
her daughter in the grave thanbeing a part of the lgbtq plus
(14:15):
community.
I have no idea what happened tothat child because we were not
allowed to actually even get incontact with that child anymore
because the parents said no wayand my organization was
partnering with the school tobring welcome in school to be a
part of their GSA.
Bryson (14:36):
Yeah, I understand parental rights and there's
something to be said about thefact of parental rights are
about your kid, not my kid.
We see things like librarybooks and things like that, but
there's also something to besaid about in a case just like
that I've had.
I had a student at one pointwhere we were instructed by the
district to not call them by thename that they wanted to be
called by, because mom said thatand we were about we had like
(14:57):
by the code of ethics we had todo that.
And now, with that being said,I just didn't use the name.
If I can't, so I just would findother ways to get attention and
things like that, things likethat.
Where it's again, it's reallynot a small thing, it's not this
big thing for those that aren'tinvolved, but for those that
are, it really is.
And those suicide rates arescary and we do so much work in
(15:21):
the schools of how do weidentify this, how do we get
them resources, but the realityis sometimes just like the
situation you were talking aboutthey go home and that support
system isn't there and, evenworse than that support system
is working against them a lot ofthe time and that's really
scary.
Angelica (15:40):
So, bryson, how did it look for you to promote
diversity in your classroom?
Bryson (15:45):
My biggest thing was just getting kids exposed to
things in general differentgenres of music, different
activities that we were workingon.
You know, in music it can bereally easy to just talk about
Bach and Beethoven and what Ilovingly refer to as just the
old, dead white guys, butthere's so much more to that in
music and things like that, andI think there's also really good
(16:06):
opportunities for us to beinclusive without being that
being the center.
For instance, I love usingpicture books in my classroom
and sometimes it's as simple asa picture of someone wearing a
hijab or a picture.
It's not the main thing, it'snot the whole story, it's not
about this.
In the background, when they goto this big market, there might
be a family with two dads,things like that.
(16:26):
Again, they're not going to bea huge deal for those people
that it's not a huge deal for,but for those students that it
does impact, it will mean theworld and it will show them that
it will be so impactful forthem.
Where I was teaching which isalways a great place to have
(16:49):
your name brought up but it wasall about how to be inclusive
for students who basically LGBTinclusivity in classroom.
The entire thing was not abouthow to make lessons about this,
but how do we just make peoplefeel included?
And it was like simple stuff,like I had a rainbow mug on my
desk.
I had you know, I'm veryconscious of the language that
(17:12):
I'm using rather than moms anddads and things like that.
You would have thought that Ihad made everyone call their
mama.
Everyone was mad.
There were a lot of people thatwere mad and it was brought up
thing where I think it comesfrom a place of fear and a place
(17:34):
of being stuck in a wind tunnel, of hearing the same types of
rhetoric.
But the reality is I wouldn'tbe doing this episode with you
if I was still in the publicschools, because I know exactly
how that would go and it wouldend poorly, or at that would go
and it would end poorly or atthe very least it would end
(17:54):
neutrally, but I would becompletely drained at the end of
itand that's not a great work
environment.
I love talking about how can wemake our schools more inclusive
for students that might feellike they're part of this
community, but the reality isthere are teachers that are part
of that community as well, or,at the very least, teachers who
might have siblings or cousinsor people that they love that
are part of this community.
But the reality is there areteachers that are part of that
community as well, or, at thevery least, teachers who might
have siblings or cousins orpeople that they love that are
(18:14):
part of this community, andthat's where visibility is just
huge.
And that was my biggest thingwhen I was in the classroom.
I never made it a hey, guesswhat?
I'm gay.
That was never a thing.
But I also made it very clearthat if one of my middle
schoolers asked me straight up,I wasn't going to lie.
That was what I said, like Iwould say if they were to at any
point, if they were to say, hey, are you gay?
I'd be like yep, move on, Iwouldn't make it.
(18:35):
This whole thing wouldn't makethis conversation.
But I also wanted to be veryclear that I'm not going to lie
about this, because I playedthat game and I'm done with it
and I'm not.
Life is short and I'm going to.
Even if it makes my life alittle bit more difficult here
in the workplace, especiallywith parents, I think it matters
more to the students than itwould to be a hindrance to me,
(18:58):
and for me that was just reallyimportant.
Angelica (19:04):
Right.
So you had instances wherestudents asked if you were gay.
Yes, did you.
Did you feel like that camefrom their own curiosity, or
maybe parents suspecting thatyou were?
And parents were talking aboutit and they heard and they were
like what is this thing calledgay?
Are you gay?
Bryson (19:20):
there are two main instances that come to mind, and
one of them was when all thetiktok drama was going along.
So I'm sure I was the topic ofconversation at some point or
another and with that studentwe'd already a really good
relationship and it wasn't likehe just yelled it out in the
middle of class.
He said hey, people are sayingthis like almost like I think
they're making fun of you, butlike like just wanted me to know
(19:42):
which was really.
First of all, I just love that,um, but unfortunately I I've
also had it where I I've had afamily where their dad
explicitly told them not tolisten to me in the classroom
because I was gay.
Now, granted that family, thekids are wonderful.
Unfortunately, there was just alot going on in that home.
So honestly, I wasn't surprisedby that.
(20:03):
But you're going to see it alland the reality is, for
everything you hear, there'slikely more that you don't,
especially in this kind of role.
Cassy (20:11):
But what it does when you encourage a child not to be
inclusive and adverse, it limitstheir potential in the real
world.
Because the real world is thereal world and there are people
from different backgroundseverywhere and if you're going
(20:32):
to limit yourself on who you, ifeverybody that you're going to
encounter looks like you lovelike you, talk like you, you
gotta not.
You gotta miss out on a lot ofopportunities.
And inclusivity is so importantand we have to get to a place
where it's probably never goingto happen, right, because you're
always going to be conservative.
People are extra conservative,that things that this is not a
man.
This is what it is.
It's one track.
Bryson (20:53):
You're on this one chart mind, and that's what it is
yeah, and I I think that youbrought up a really good point
where I don't think we'll eversee the end of this.
My, my goal is to at least makeenough noise that when people
in the world hear hate, theyalso know that there's more out
there, and that's one of mymissions, and one of my hills
(21:17):
I'm willing to die on is justbeing a signal of there's more
and there's a different option.
You don't have to do that.
You don't have to accept that.
Cassy (21:26):
All I say is I grew up in a homophobic country.
I grew up in Jamaica and when Icame to America I never thought
that it would be something thatI would have to advocate for
people to have equality.
Bryson (21:38):
Yeah, like a lot of us, I, with the understanding of
what this next presidentialadministration may or may not
look like, I'm still processinga lot of that and that
understanding and also knowingthat in Ohio we doubled down on
the conservative things in ourstate, and I think this is a
conversation, that and dilemmathat people that are in the
(22:01):
majority don't necessarilyalways have.
And I say that as someoneblatantly aware that I do also
have the privilege of being awhite man, and I think that's
something that I wish.
I don't wish more peopleunderstood this feeling, because
that's the opposite of this,but wish that there was a way to
be able to show how reallyfrightening it can be sometimes
to just not know what's comingnext and not know if the fight
(22:25):
that you fought so hard to getin with your rights and things
like that, are going to be gonetomorrow.
Or how do I say this nicely?
Sometimes people like, oh,you're crying about things that
aren't happening yet, but thereality is look at, look behind
us and see the steps that havegotten us here, and the reality
is we're not at the end of astory, we're right, smack dab in
(22:47):
the middle.
So sometimes I don't know,sometimes we have to.
There's a bigger picture thatwe don't see and we could be
wrong 100%.
But I'm not going to sit hereand just hope everything's okay,
because there's just too muchat stake.
Cassy (23:02):
You mentioned, Bryson, about being.
You have a privilege of being awhite man.
Do you think, based on theresults of the last election and
being a white human?
Do you think, based on theresults of the last election and
being a white human, do youthink, living in a state that's
so conservative, you probablywould have to use that privilege
a little bit more to getthrough?
Oh, that's a really goodquestion?
Bryson (23:23):
I don't know, and I guess that's the real answer is
I guess we're going to have towait and see.
I'm lucky that I do live inColumbus, which is a little
enclave here in Ohio.
But the reality is, with theway our districts are all
gerrymandered, it's notnecessarily.
That doesn't necessarily meanI'm safe, that doesn't
necessarily mean that the peopleI care about are, and there's
(23:45):
definitely a way where I canpresent in this world without
drawing attention.
But I don't know.
That's a really good question?
I hope not.
Because I hope that?
Because in to some degree Ifeel like that would be not
being authentic, because there'sthere's more to me too that
would would rub people the wrongway too if they, if you have
(24:08):
the experience that any of yourpeers being open to promoting
diversity in their classrooms.
I am very thankful that thecommunity that I worked in I
think I was part of a biggerchange.
It was a very small communitywhere everyone knew everyone and
(24:29):
you grew up, you graduated, youstayed and then repeated, and
it was on the outsides ofColumbus.
And as Columbus is pushing out,change is coming in, new people
are coming in with new ideasand I really do hope that the
reason there was so muchfriction here and there around
these types of topics is becausewe were in the middle of change
.
(24:51):
I'm very thankful that the vastmajority of the teachers that I
worked with were on board withpromoting inclusivity and
diversity and living the samevalues that I do, and I would
not have gotten through thatmany years in that district had
it not been for colleagues thatsupported me and made it very
known that they supported me,but also the vast majority of my
administrators, who were in mycorner and were willing to go to
(25:13):
bat for me when they needed to.
But the reality is there areteachers that are just like me
that don't have that support andthey just get thrown under the
bus so quickly and they'll neverteach again, and that's whether
it's their decision or not.
It's a shame, because clearlythere was a reason why they
wanted to do it in the firstplace.
Angelica (25:32):
So, bryson, we've been talking a lot about the
experiences of your students, aswell as other teachers talking
about inclusivity.
I don't know if you grew up inOhio, but what was your
experience, or what have beenyour experiences, with
acceptance, as you werediscovering who you were?
Bryson (25:52):
Yeah, that's.
I did grow up in Ohio.
I grew up in a smaller cityhere in Ohio, very red, but I
was also raised Catholic, sothat kind of throws in a little
loop, a little wrench in theretoo.
My journey was a lot longerthan I feel like it needed to be
.
Here we are.
I did have the privilege that myolder brother did come out as
(26:13):
gay eight years before I did.
He had to do the hard, theheavy lifting, and it was the
point where, when I came out itwas, I think it was the vast
majority of people were okay,yeah, and that was that and
which, I have to say, is anincredible privilege that so
many people do not get.
Does that mean that everybodyis completely in?
My family and my community arefully on board?
Not necessarily, but I alsothink that, thinking back to my
own school, we didn't reallyhave, we didn't have a
(26:36):
gay-straight alliance.
That wasn't a thing that was in.
Even in the zeitgeist of mycommunity at least.
The internet was still a verydifferent place than it is now,
so we didn't have the ability toget connected in that way.
So I don't know.
I do sometimes think back andthink what if I would have come
out in high school Like howdifferent would my life be?
What would have that path endedup?
Because the reality is it tookme a good three, four years into
(27:01):
undergrad to finally startputting the pieces together and
put into words what I likelyknew for a lot longer than that.
I don't know.
Angelica (27:07):
Start putting the pieces together and put into
words what I likely knew for alot longer than that.
Did you have any role models orwas there any representation?
Did you see anyone?
Cassy (27:16):
My brother.
He owned a brother team.
Angelica (27:20):
How old were you when your brother came out?
Bryson (27:22):
I was like in eighth grade, I think early high school
, I did have that.
What was interesting about thatis he had already moved away
from school so I didn't reallyget to see him much or interact
with him much during thatprocess.
But honestly, I think thebiggest thing during that whole
process was watching my parentskind of grapple with that and
having to see that character arcfrom them of I just want to
understand all the things.
(27:42):
They went to PFLAG meetings andthings like that.
Just how do I support?
What do I do?
What does this mean?
And I'm sure there was a lot ofinternal work that went on that
I didn't see, but it was justreally interesting to see as
someone who was fairly young atthat point.
People can change and peoplecan change their opinions.
And there are good people outthere that just don't have all
(28:05):
the information or don't havethe life experiences that would
allow them to see things thatquite fully.
And I think that was reallygood for me because I was able
to see that you can changepeople's minds sometimes.
You just have to do a littlebit of work for it all right is
still involved in p flag I thinkthat was.
I'm not sure if even it is athing where we're into the same
(28:26):
kind of group.
But that was more of justinitially, when he first came
out, just to figure out whattheir role in that whole process
was.
Cassy (28:34):
Yeah, PFLAG is an amazing organization.
Parents for Lesbians and GaysAmazing organization.
I've done some work with themin the Maryland area.
Angelica (28:42):
But yeah, bryson, what you mentioned before, that you
are no longer an educator in thepublic school system.
What led to that transition andtell us a little bit more about
what you do now yeah, therewere definitely a lot of things
that that went into that process.
Bryson (28:59):
Teaching during covid, especially in a rural red
community, was rough.
That definitely did not helpthe situation.
But it also realized that whatI'd wanted for my life wasn't
necessarily what I thought Iwanted and that took a lot of
work to undo and I also, youknow, to some degree just wanted
to be a little bit more me.
I was never hiding anythingnecessarily, but I still felt
like I was always walking oneggshells.
(29:20):
And then my company evolvedcompletely by accident and one
day I looked around and Irealized that I was creating an
impact on classrooms from aroundthe world through virtual
summits and professionaldevelopment.
And I just realized I was readyfor something new and I jumped
in headfirst and I now run acompany called that Music
Teacher.
I am an independentinstructional coach and an
(29:40):
elementary music specialist.
Still, I work directly withschools, I work with the
teachers, I help facilitateevents to create accessible,
content-specific professionaldevelopment.
But what might be my favoritepart is, as my team grows, I'm
able to be the boss and create acompany culture that I had
always wished that I had been apart of, and I think that was
(30:02):
really cool to be able to see itfrom that side too and see how
we can really not only be awareand understanding of
neurodiversity, but also mentalhealth and sexuality and gender
identity and just like awarenessof differences.
And that has been reallyspecial and I still have a lot
of work to do to keep buildingthat, but it lights me up to be
(30:23):
able to do that work.
Angelica (30:24):
That's amazing.
So on that music.
What kind of.
How does that go?
What do you cover there?
Bryson (30:31):
Yeah, we dive into the realities of being a music
teacher lesson ideas, but alsohow to get organized and how to
structure things and how tojuggle all of the things,
because there's so manydifferent things involved and we
take it so many differentdirections.
But really the main goal ofthat podcast is to get what we
refer and we refer to as to getoff of music teacher island,
(30:53):
because music teachers arelikely the only music teacher in
their building, sometimes evenin their district.
So, building that community sowe can support each other and
that we can build each other up,because it's so much easier
when we're not doing it alone.
Cassy (31:06):
Definitely.
Angelica (31:07):
Yeah, that's true In a lot of different areas.
Having community is veryimportant.
So where are you going withthat music teacher?
What, ultimately, would youlike to accomplish with your
business?
Bryson (31:20):
Oh, I always struggle with those big picture because I
never thought I'd be here.
My big goal is to just keepgrowing our events, get more
professional development infront of more teachers, but also
sprinkle in the how can we makethe classrooms of the teachers
that we work with for everyone?
The phrase music is foreveryone is thrown around so
much, but it's my life missionto make sure that we mean it,
(31:42):
and that requires doing somework and that requires teachers
to know what that work is.
So that's the journey that I'mon is to start them on their own
journey.
Angelica (31:48):
Okay, and do you feel the inclusivity in both dealing
with student with disabilitiesas well as dealing with clear
students, or do you keep thosethings separate, or how do you?
How does that work for?
Bryson (32:02):
you.
I definitely.
My graduate research line ismore on on the disability side
of things but what I do think isreally interesting is, at a
foundational level, when we'retalking about creating an
inclusive environment for, let'ssay, neuro, break those down or
at least to give that, givepeople the tools to work with
(32:29):
those barriers and startbreaking them down and working
around them.
But it's the same tools and I Ihaven't explicitly done a lot
of work with that the sexualityside of things but I'm also not
shying away from it anymorebecause if that's not something
that you're willing to talkabout or understand that there
are differences out there, I'mnot the coach for you because
(32:50):
our values aren't aligned andthat's okay.
Like all my people are outthere and the teachers that are
ready to do this work are outthere.
Angelica (32:58):
Are you primarily serving teachers in Ohio or
nationwide?
Bryson (33:04):
What's wonderful about my company is we are somehow a
worldwide business.
We are.
We do a lot of work in NorthAmerica, but we have a growing
contingency in Australia and theUnited Kingdom because a lot of
what we do is asynchronous andvirtual.
So we get to really spread thework around and do a lot of work
a little bit here and there.
Angelica (33:21):
That's amazing.
So if someone wanted to getyour instructional coaching into
their district, how would theygo about doing that?
Bryson (33:30):
If you want to start a conversation with me, instagram
direct messages is a great placeto start, also sending an email
Hello at that music teacher dotcom.
Or you can check out ourwebsite at that music teacher
dot com.
We have a section where we talka lot about the different
offerings that we do, but any ofthose ways will get you into
contact with either myself orsomeone on my team.
Cassy (33:53):
And we'd love to figure out what would be a good fit for
you.
You can sell, all right, bryson.
What are your last words ofadvice, or just your last word
to our listeners.
Bryson (33:59):
Oh, it's a really good one.
I'm gonna do it.
I'll do a little too, a littletoo firm.
The first is for anyone thatdoesn't likely these types of
people aren't listening to yourpodcast, but I'm gonna shout it
out anyway.
There are gay kids and transkids in the schools in your
community, whether you know itor not yeah and, on the same
flip side of that, the samething goes with teachers.
There are teachers that are partof that community as well, and
(34:21):
we need to make sure that we'remaking it a place where they
feel welcome and safe, becauseif you don't't feel welcome, you
don't feel safe, you're notgoing to learn and you're not
going to be a great teacher.
Cassy (34:29):
That's right.
Bryson, you mentioned thatthere may not be those
quote-unquote people listeningto the podcast and for Demetre,
those people sometimes pay moreattention to what's going on in
the LGBTQ plus community.
Okay, listeners.
There you have it, brysonTarbett, an advocate for
(34:50):
inclusivity in the musicindustry.
He is a founder of that musicteacher and a former pre-k
teacher, and currently he's alsoa music teacher.
He's an advocate and a changemaker.
Thank you, bryson, for being ona Queer Understanding Podcast.
Bryson (35:08):
Thank you so much for having me.
Bryson Tarbett, a passionate advocate for
inclusive music education,transitioned from a career as a
pre-K through 6th grade generalmusic teacher to a full-time
instructional coach.
With a bachelor's of music andmusic education from Ohio
Wesleyan University and a masterof music and music education
with a Cote d'Alais emphasisfrom Capital University, bryson
(00:21):
brings a wealth of knowledge andexperience to his work.
University Bryson brings awealth of knowledge and
experience to his work.
During his tenure as aneducator, bryson spent a
transformative year as part ofan elementary school
intervention team where hediscovered his passion for
working with students withdisabilities.
Drawing from this experienceand his personal journey as a
neurodiverse individual, brysonadvocates strongly for creating
sensory and emotionallyinclusive classrooms.
(00:42):
Now the founder of that MusicTeacher LLC, bryson channels his
dedication to music educationinto sharing diverse
perspectives on issues relevantto educators nationwide.
He hosts the popular that MusicPodcast, caring specifically to
elementary music teachers, andspearheads the Elementary Music
Summit, a platform forprofessional development and
(01:04):
community building.
Here's our conversation.
Bryson, thank you for joiningus.
Bryson (01:10):
Hello, thank you for having me.
Angelica (01:11):
Thank you.
I think you are the firstteacher that we've had on in all
these years.
It's only been a couple, but Ithink you're the first teacher,
so I am definitely interested inhearing about your experiences.
You are specifically a musicteacher in Ohio, correct?
Yes, what grade level?
Bryson (01:32):
I was a pre-K through sixth grade, general music
teacher.
So a little bit of everything.
Angelica (01:37):
Okay, different instruments.
Bryson (01:41):
We did a lot of vocal.
We did dancing movement.
We did play the recorders whichplease don't come at me.
They're my favorite thing.
They probably a lot of vocal.
We did dancing movement.
We did play the recorders whichdon't please don't come at me.
They're my favorite thing.
They probably just weren'ttaught.
If you don't like it, that'swhere everything was just
creating an explorative way toget kids involved with music.
Cassy (01:54):
All right, Awesome, Just so you know.
So I grew up in Jamaica and therecorder was a huge part.
I remember the first song wehad to learn was Mary had their
little lamb.
I can't play that song on therecorder to this day.
Bryson (02:07):
I love it and that without getting too far out of
base.
Already I have thatconversation nearly every single
time.
I get a haircut or get an Uberand it comes up and it brings up
a recorder and everyone hassuch great memories.
So, as much as I know that alot of the parents are like, why
are you doing this to me?
It's for those conversationsright there.
Angelica (02:26):
I don't even know what the recorder is.
Seriously, I'm so serious.
Cassy (02:29):
Oh my God, you don't know what I record.
You haven't played a record.
Oh my God, I'm going to buy arecorder.
I'm buying a recorder and I'mgoing to play it for you.
Okay, yes, so my marriageprobably weren't ruined, but
we'll see I need a recorder forchristmas.
I can't play that recorder.
Bryson (02:50):
That's the only musical instrument I know how to play
I'm honored to have been able tostart that journey for her so
you say you started out pre-kthrough sixth grade.
Angelica (02:58):
Yes, okay.
And what were you alwaysinterested in?
Music, were you alwaysinterested in teaching?
What was you always interestedin teaching?
What was the convergence ofthose two things?
Bryson (03:06):
Oh, that's a real question that I've done a lot of
thinking about lately.
My parents were both teachers.
We were long I'm a thirdgeneration educator and that
made it a little bit easy to gointo education.
I've been really into music andsinging from a very young age.
My parents basically said thatI've just been singing from the
moment I woke up and here we are.
I took a lot of differentwinding journeys to get to where
(03:29):
I am.
I always thought I was going togo into the music performance
route and be an opera singer,and then I thought I was going
to be a high school choirdirector before I ended up in
the elementary world.
And just recently, at the endof this past school year, I left
the classroom to run myinstructional coaching program
full-time, which is incrediblywonderful, but also never where
I thought I would be.
(03:50):
So it's been interesting to seethe path that has led me here.
Angelica (03:53):
Wow, okay, now that you've said it, I'm dying to
hear you sing.
Can you like give us somethingoperatic?
That would be great.
Bryson (04:01):
I'm not quite sure what we would do, or, honestly, if my
microphone would even let itnot just peek out that's very
robust.
Angelica (04:10):
It's very yes all right, I got you.
What were experiences like asan elementary school teacher?
I we don't have.
There aren't a lot of men inthat field, first of all, and
then also, I honestly I would is.
I don't know if you seeyourself as presenting as gay or
not, but I would imagine thatthere are, just from things I've
(04:35):
seen on news and TikTok, butyeah, that there may be some
parents who have an issue withthat or have who are ignorant
and have concerns about that.
Have you had those experiences?
Bryson (04:45):
Unfortunately.
Yes, that's one of those thingsthat I, when I first started
teaching, I was still very freshin figuring out my identity and
going into the classroom,especially elementary, where,
for one, like you said, thereare very few men that work in an
elementary classroom, so thatalone I was already this odd man
out.
But I also worked in a veryrural school in Ohio and
(05:07):
unfortunately there are somelines that are very tricky to
cross without a lot of supportin your corner.
I will say I've had the vastmajority of my administrators
have been very supportive, butsometimes I've had
administrators that were tryingto be supportive maybe and
things didn't quite go asplanned and, like you said,
there were parents that did notlike the way that I presented in
(05:30):
the world.
I think the big thing thatpeople had problems with me were
some parents was that I wastalking about inclusivity.
I've done a lot of work indifferentiation and inclusion
from the disability andneurodivergent side of things,
but the reality is human,children are human.
We are all so multifaceted.
So while I've never had anyexplicit lessons on sexual
(05:51):
identity or anything like thatin the music classroom, I've
always made sure that it was aplace where everyone can be
there.
When we say music is foreveryone, we mean that, and
sometimes that rubbed someparents the wrong way,
especially as I startedtransitioning into the dual role
of running my company in theevenings and on social media and
getting a following there andthen also being a teacher during
the school day.
(06:11):
Sometimes those things did notsuper interact pretty well and I
don't know.
That's still something I reallyworry about, as just the shape
of education is teachers whodon't feel like they can be
themselves, and that is reallyscary, especially when we are
coming up to an even worseteacher shortage.
Things like that and thingslike the laws and the bills that
(06:32):
we're seeing come in abouteducation here in Ohio.
I just really worry about theripple effects of that and how
my experience which by all meanswas not a terrible experience
how that might be so much worsefor others down the line, and
that's something I have genuineconcerns about and that's part
of the reason that I feel alittle bit more comfortable
(06:54):
doing things through my companybecause I'm no longer a public
servant, so I get to make my ownrules a little bit more and
attract the people that I wantto attract.
Angelica (07:03):
So you mentioned that you work with students with
disabilities or, and youmentioned, neurodiverse
individuals.
Bryson (07:11):
For those who don't know what is neurodiversity, First
of all, that's one of thoselabels where everyone might have
a little bit of a differentopinion on that.
For me, as someone who has ADHDand sensory processing disorder
, my working definition ofneurodivergence is essentially
when our brains work differentlythan the mainstream.
So things like ADHD, autism,sensory issues, things like that
(07:34):
, can fall into that realm.
Angelica (07:36):
Yeah, I think most people think about autism or
being on the spectrum.
That has become a prettypopular topic and pretty
mainstream.
I don't know if you watch a lotof Netflix Atypical is one of
my favorite shows and then theyhave Love on the Spectrum in the
US and Australia.
I don't know if that was anintentional thing to bring more
light to neurodivergentindividuals or what their
(08:00):
participation behind that was,but I think they did a pretty
good job of showing the spectrumthat people can be on and that
people who are neurodivergentare regular people with just
slightly different ways thatthey process and experience the
world or see the world through.
Cassy (08:17):
Yeah, and so you spoke about the bill that they are
passing.
In Ohio.
On November 27th, the governorDY.
He signed a transgenderbathroom ban bill into law,
which restricts transgenderstudents to use the bathroom
that they were assigned at Byrd.
How is that impacting studentsin your district or your
(08:37):
classroom?
Bryson (08:38):
I think the biggest thing that comes to mind is that
place isn't there for peoplewho need it and when that's the
case, for anything, for any sortof you know inclusion or
ability to have, I don't know.
(08:58):
I'm really struggling with thisbecause I've only had a few, a
few experiences as a teacherwhere this would have been a
direct issue for the studentsthat I served.
But I think that even whenthere aren't students that are
served by something like thisBecause one, it doesn't matter,
it's just the bathroom.
That's all that's going on.
That's one of the things thatfrustrates me is this fixation
(09:21):
on things like this that areclearly just vilifying and
scapegoating.
And especially, there are somany bigger issues and bigger
fish to fry in education,especially education in Ohio,
that it really does bother methat this is where we're
deciding to put our focus.
This is the man we're puttingmanpower behind, creating laws,
(09:41):
having committees for this, andmeanwhile we have so many other
issues in how these schools needto work and it just it's really
frustrating because it doesn'tneed to be that way and it's
just not what we should befocusing on.
It's just not that big of adeal for the people that aren't
affected by it and the peoplethat are affected by it.
It is a huge deal, and that iswhat bothers me so much.
Cassy (10:04):
In my previous organization.
We work with HRC and there's aninitiative called the Welcoming
School, which has done a lot ofgreat work around equality in
the schools.
What that does?
It not only protects studentsbut also protects teachers from
being discriminated against inthe classroom.
(10:25):
And it was really enlighteningbecause during my advocacy with
the school board in PreacheryWisconsin, Maryland and you will
be surprised, you knowPreachery, Wisconsin, right next
to DC or Progressive, I'm surethat no, it's socially
conservative, it's a sociallyconservative county and I had a
transgender teacher thattestified about what they
experienced in the classroom,both from students and parents
(10:47):
and our teachers, and why thisinitiative is important.
And, Bryson, I would encourageyou to probably create a
partnership with WelcomingSchool.
We know with this currentadministration the upcoming
administration we may have somechallenges there, but it's very
disheartening to know that wehave students and teachers that
(11:10):
will have to go back in hidingbecause of these bills that are
turning into laws in some ofthese states, Because what's
going to happen is that bullyingis going to get back on 10.
Teachers are going to losetheir jobs, Students are,
suicide rate within the LGBTQplus community is gonna be
escalated and people may thinkthat these things are, they'll
(11:34):
be okay.
No, when you, when the worstthing is not able to be a true,
authentic self, you get in thatspace where you feel so
claustrophobic and it'sdisheartening yeah, I.
Bryson (11:48):
So I had not heard of that organization before, but
you mentioned it right before westarted and I'm really
interested to look into thatmore because it reminds me of
the NEA, the National EducationAssociation.
A few years back, they tried avery similar thing to help bring
the teachers and get resourcesin front of students but also be
visible in it, and they createdessentially, badge buddies that
(12:11):
would go on and had a qr formore information, but it was
more of a I'm a safe person,this is I'm, so I'm here and you
are too, and that's okay.
Um, and it was a huge deal.
It got picked up on the rightwing media and it I don't know.
I just I'm gonna be reallyhonest.
I don't have the words todescribe what I, what my
(12:34):
concerns are for education,especially when it comes to
lgbtq teachers, students,families, because that's that's
another thing that we don't talka lot about.
We have students whose parentsare lgbt, lgbt and we're
supposed to include them, but wecan't talk about them.
It's this whole thing of Idon't know it's.
(12:55):
I promise I'm usually much morewell-spoken than this, but I'm
just, I really struggle with theconcept as a core, so I'm
really excited to look into thatWelcoming Schools and see how I
can support it and how I cansignal, boost it and get it in
front of more teachers.
Cassy (13:10):
Yes, it's very important.
So I had a, so I'm not going tomention the school or the
teacher's name, but in PrinceGeorge's County, maryland, we
were the GSA Gender StraightAlliance.
Do you have that in your school?
Not where I used to be.
Okay, so we, there was a GSA andthere was a student that was a
part of the GSA and her motherdidn't know and we were having
(13:32):
an event and for some reason themother pulled up and told her
that's what was going on, and itwas a whole charade because her
mother was pissed off.
Her daughter was a lesbian orbisexual, whatever she
identifies and the mother didn'tknow.
She didn't know.
She didn't know.
All she knew was that thedaughter was participating in
(13:53):
stuff at school and she phonedout what it was and she showed
up.
She didn't know what GSA was.
They were from Africa and shephoned out what GSA was.
When she came here, she saidshe was going to call the police
on us.
She was going to call thepolice on the school.
She was going to call the newsand school.
She was going to call the newsand she said she'd rather see
her daughter in the grave thanbeing a part of the lgbtq plus
(14:15):
community.
I have no idea what happened tothat child because we were not
allowed to actually even get incontact with that child anymore
because the parents said no wayand my organization was
partnering with the school tobring welcome in school to be a
part of their GSA.
Bryson (14:36):
Yeah, I understand parental rights and there's
something to be said about thefact of parental rights are
about your kid, not my kid.
We see things like librarybooks and things like that, but
there's also something to besaid about in a case just like
that I've had.
I had a student at one pointwhere we were instructed by the
district to not call them by thename that they wanted to be
called by, because mom said thatand we were about we had like
(14:57):
by the code of ethics we had todo that.
And now, with that being said,I just didn't use the name.
If I can't, so I just would findother ways to get attention and
things like that, things likethat.
Where it's again, it's reallynot a small thing, it's not this
big thing for those that aren'tinvolved, but for those that
are, it really is.
And those suicide rates arescary and we do so much work in
(15:21):
the schools of how do weidentify this, how do we get
them resources, but the realityis sometimes just like the
situation you were talking aboutthey go home and that support
system isn't there and, evenworse than that support system
is working against them a lot ofthe time and that's really
scary.
Angelica (15:40):
So, bryson, how did it look for you to promote
diversity in your classroom?
Bryson (15:45):
My biggest thing was just getting kids exposed to
things in general differentgenres of music, different
activities that we were workingon.
You know, in music it can bereally easy to just talk about
Bach and Beethoven and what Ilovingly refer to as just the
old, dead white guys, butthere's so much more to that in
music and things like that, andI think there's also really good
(16:06):
opportunities for us to beinclusive without being that
being the center.
For instance, I love usingpicture books in my classroom
and sometimes it's as simple asa picture of someone wearing a
hijab or a picture.
It's not the main thing, it'snot the whole story, it's not
about this.
In the background, when they goto this big market, there might
be a family with two dads,things like that.
(16:26):
Again, they're not going to bea huge deal for those people
that it's not a huge deal for,but for those students that it
does impact, it will mean theworld and it will show them that
it will be so impactful forthem.
Where I was teaching which isalways a great place to have
(16:49):
your name brought up but it wasall about how to be inclusive
for students who basically LGBTinclusivity in classroom.
The entire thing was not abouthow to make lessons about this,
but how do we just make peoplefeel included?
And it was like simple stuff,like I had a rainbow mug on my
desk.
I had you know, I'm veryconscious of the language that
(17:12):
I'm using rather than moms anddads and things like that.
You would have thought that Ihad made everyone call their
mama.
Everyone was mad.
There were a lot of people thatwere mad and it was brought up
thing where I think it comesfrom a place of fear and a place
(17:34):
of being stuck in a wind tunnel, of hearing the same types of
rhetoric.
But the reality is I wouldn'tbe doing this episode with you
if I was still in the publicschools, because I know exactly
how that would go and it wouldend poorly, or at that would go
and it would end poorly or atthe very least it would end
(17:54):
neutrally, but I would becompletely drained at the end of
itand that's not a great work
environment.
I love talking about how can wemake our schools more inclusive
for students that might feellike they're part of this
community, but the reality isthere are teachers that are part
of that community as well, or,at the very least, teachers who
might have siblings or cousinsor people that they love that
are part of this community.
But the reality is there areteachers that are part of that
community as well, or, at thevery least, teachers who might
have siblings or cousins orpeople that they love that are
(18:14):
part of this community, andthat's where visibility is just
huge.
And that was my biggest thingwhen I was in the classroom.
I never made it a hey, guesswhat?
I'm gay.
That was never a thing.
But I also made it very clearthat if one of my middle
schoolers asked me straight up,I wasn't going to lie.
That was what I said, like Iwould say if they were to at any
point, if they were to say, hey, are you gay?
I'd be like yep, move on, Iwouldn't make it.
(18:35):
This whole thing wouldn't makethis conversation.
But I also wanted to be veryclear that I'm not going to lie
about this, because I playedthat game and I'm done with it
and I'm not.
Life is short and I'm going to.
Even if it makes my life alittle bit more difficult here
in the workplace, especiallywith parents, I think it matters
more to the students than itwould to be a hindrance to me,
(18:58):
and for me that was just reallyimportant.
Angelica (19:04):
Right.
So you had instances wherestudents asked if you were gay.
Yes, did you.
Did you feel like that camefrom their own curiosity, or
maybe parents suspecting thatyou were?
And parents were talking aboutit and they heard and they were
like what is this thing calledgay?
Are you gay?
Bryson (19:20):
there are two main instances that come to mind, and
one of them was when all thetiktok drama was going along.
So I'm sure I was the topic ofconversation at some point or
another and with that studentwe'd already a really good
relationship and it wasn't likehe just yelled it out in the
middle of class.
He said hey, people are sayingthis like almost like I think
they're making fun of you, butlike like just wanted me to know
(19:42):
which was really.
First of all, I just love that,um, but unfortunately I I've
also had it where I I've had afamily where their dad
explicitly told them not tolisten to me in the classroom
because I was gay.
Now, granted that family, thekids are wonderful.
Unfortunately, there was just alot going on in that home.
So honestly, I wasn't surprisedby that.
(20:03):
But you're going to see it alland the reality is, for
everything you hear, there'slikely more that you don't,
especially in this kind of role.
Cassy (20:11):
But what it does when you encourage a child not to be
inclusive and adverse, it limitstheir potential in the real
world.
Because the real world is thereal world and there are people
from different backgroundseverywhere and if you're going
(20:32):
to limit yourself on who you, ifeverybody that you're going to
encounter looks like you lovelike you, talk like you, you
gotta not.
You gotta miss out on a lot ofopportunities.
And inclusivity is so importantand we have to get to a place
where it's probably never goingto happen, right, because you're
always going to be conservative.
People are extra conservative,that things that this is not a
man.
This is what it is.
It's one track.
Bryson (20:53):
You're on this one chart mind, and that's what it is
yeah, and I I think that youbrought up a really good point
where I don't think we'll eversee the end of this.
My, my goal is to at least makeenough noise that when people
in the world hear hate, theyalso know that there's more out
there, and that's one of mymissions, and one of my hills
(21:17):
I'm willing to die on is justbeing a signal of there's more
and there's a different option.
You don't have to do that.
You don't have to accept that.
Cassy (21:26):
All I say is I grew up in a homophobic country.
I grew up in Jamaica and when Icame to America I never thought
that it would be something thatI would have to advocate for
people to have equality.
Bryson (21:38):
Yeah, like a lot of us, I, with the understanding of
what this next presidentialadministration may or may not
look like, I'm still processinga lot of that and that
understanding and also knowingthat in Ohio we doubled down on
the conservative things in ourstate, and I think this is a
conversation, that and dilemmathat people that are in the
(22:01):
majority don't necessarilyalways have.
And I say that as someoneblatantly aware that I do also
have the privilege of being awhite man, and I think that's
something that I wish.
I don't wish more peopleunderstood this feeling, because
that's the opposite of this,but wish that there was a way to
be able to show how reallyfrightening it can be sometimes
to just not know what's comingnext and not know if the fight
(22:25):
that you fought so hard to getin with your rights and things
like that, are going to be gonetomorrow.
Or how do I say this nicely?
Sometimes people like, oh,you're crying about things that
aren't happening yet, but thereality is look at, look behind
us and see the steps that havegotten us here, and the reality
is we're not at the end of astory, we're right, smack dab in
(22:47):
the middle.
So sometimes I don't know,sometimes we have to.
There's a bigger picture thatwe don't see and we could be
wrong 100%.
But I'm not going to sit hereand just hope everything's okay,
because there's just too muchat stake.
Cassy (23:02):
You mentioned, Bryson, about being.
You have a privilege of being awhite man.
Do you think, based on theresults of the last election and
being a white human?
Do you think, based on theresults of the last election and
being a white human, do youthink, living in a state that's
so conservative, you probablywould have to use that privilege
a little bit more to getthrough?
Oh, that's a really goodquestion?
Bryson (23:23):
I don't know, and I guess that's the real answer is
I guess we're going to have towait and see.
I'm lucky that I do live inColumbus, which is a little
enclave here in Ohio.
But the reality is, with theway our districts are all
gerrymandered, it's notnecessarily.
That doesn't necessarily meanI'm safe, that doesn't
necessarily mean that the peopleI care about are, and there's
(23:45):
definitely a way where I canpresent in this world without
drawing attention.
But I don't know.
That's a really good question?
I hope not.
Because I hope that?
Because in to some degree Ifeel like that would be not
being authentic, because there'sthere's more to me too that
would would rub people the wrongway too if they, if you have
(24:08):
the experience that any of yourpeers being open to promoting
diversity in their classrooms.
I am very thankful that thecommunity that I worked in I
think I was part of a biggerchange.
It was a very small communitywhere everyone knew everyone and
(24:29):
you grew up, you graduated, youstayed and then repeated, and
it was on the outsides ofColumbus.
And as Columbus is pushing out,change is coming in, new people
are coming in with new ideasand I really do hope that the
reason there was so muchfriction here and there around
these types of topics is becausewe were in the middle of change
.
(24:51):
I'm very thankful that the vastmajority of the teachers that I
worked with were on board withpromoting inclusivity and
diversity and living the samevalues that I do, and I would
not have gotten through thatmany years in that district had
it not been for colleagues thatsupported me and made it very
known that they supported me,but also the vast majority of my
administrators, who were in mycorner and were willing to go to
(25:13):
bat for me when they needed to.
But the reality is there areteachers that are just like me
that don't have that support andthey just get thrown under the
bus so quickly and they'll neverteach again, and that's whether
it's their decision or not.
It's a shame, because clearlythere was a reason why they
wanted to do it in the firstplace.
Angelica (25:32):
So, bryson, we've been talking a lot about the
experiences of your students, aswell as other teachers talking
about inclusivity.
I don't know if you grew up inOhio, but what was your
experience, or what have beenyour experiences, with
acceptance, as you werediscovering who you were?
Bryson (25:52):
Yeah, that's.
I did grow up in Ohio.
I grew up in a smaller cityhere in Ohio, very red, but I
was also raised Catholic, sothat kind of throws in a little
loop, a little wrench in theretoo.
My journey was a lot longerthan I feel like it needed to be
.
Here we are.
I did have the privilege that myolder brother did come out as
(26:13):
gay eight years before I did.
He had to do the hard, theheavy lifting, and it was the
point where, when I came out itwas, I think it was the vast
majority of people were okay,yeah, and that was that and
which, I have to say, is anincredible privilege that so
many people do not get.
Does that mean that everybodyis completely in?
My family and my community arefully on board?
Not necessarily, but I alsothink that, thinking back to my
own school, we didn't reallyhave, we didn't have a
(26:36):
gay-straight alliance.
That wasn't a thing that was in.
Even in the zeitgeist of mycommunity at least.
The internet was still a verydifferent place than it is now,
so we didn't have the ability toget connected in that way.
So I don't know.
I do sometimes think back andthink what if I would have come
out in high school Like howdifferent would my life be?
What would have that path endedup?
Because the reality is it tookme a good three, four years into
(27:01):
undergrad to finally startputting the pieces together and
put into words what I likelyknew for a lot longer than that.
I don't know.
Angelica (27:07):
Start putting the pieces together and put into
words what I likely knew for alot longer than that.
Did you have any role models orwas there any representation?
Did you see anyone?
Cassy (27:16):
My brother.
He owned a brother team.
Angelica (27:20):
How old were you when your brother came out?
Bryson (27:22):
I was like in eighth grade, I think early high school
, I did have that.
What was interesting about thatis he had already moved away
from school so I didn't reallyget to see him much or interact
with him much during thatprocess.
But honestly, I think thebiggest thing during that whole
process was watching my parentskind of grapple with that and
having to see that character arcfrom them of I just want to
understand all the things.
(27:42):
They went to PFLAG meetings andthings like that.
Just how do I support?
What do I do?
What does this mean?
And I'm sure there was a lot ofinternal work that went on that
I didn't see, but it was justreally interesting to see as
someone who was fairly young atthat point.
People can change and peoplecan change their opinions.
And there are good people outthere that just don't have all
(28:05):
the information or don't havethe life experiences that would
allow them to see things thatquite fully.
And I think that was reallygood for me because I was able
to see that you can changepeople's minds sometimes.
You just have to do a littlebit of work for it all right is
still involved in p flag I thinkthat was.
I'm not sure if even it is athing where we're into the same
(28:26):
kind of group.
But that was more of justinitially, when he first came
out, just to figure out whattheir role in that whole process
was.
Cassy (28:34):
Yeah, PFLAG is an amazing organization.
Parents for Lesbians and GaysAmazing organization.
I've done some work with themin the Maryland area.
Angelica (28:42):
But yeah, bryson, what you mentioned before, that you
are no longer an educator in thepublic school system.
What led to that transition andtell us a little bit more about
what you do now yeah, therewere definitely a lot of things
that that went into that process.
Bryson (28:59):
Teaching during covid, especially in a rural red
community, was rough.
That definitely did not helpthe situation.
But it also realized that whatI'd wanted for my life wasn't
necessarily what I thought Iwanted and that took a lot of
work to undo and I also, youknow, to some degree just wanted
to be a little bit more me.
I was never hiding anythingnecessarily, but I still felt
like I was always walking oneggshells.
(29:20):
And then my company evolvedcompletely by accident and one
day I looked around and Irealized that I was creating an
impact on classrooms from aroundthe world through virtual
summits and professionaldevelopment.
And I just realized I was readyfor something new and I jumped
in headfirst and I now run acompany called that Music
Teacher.
I am an independentinstructional coach and an
(29:40):
elementary music specialist.
Still, I work directly withschools, I work with the
teachers, I help facilitateevents to create accessible,
content-specific professionaldevelopment.
But what might be my favoritepart is, as my team grows, I'm
able to be the boss and create acompany culture that I had
always wished that I had been apart of, and I think that was
(30:02):
really cool to be able to see itfrom that side too and see how
we can really not only be awareand understanding of
neurodiversity, but also mentalhealth and sexuality and gender
identity and just like awarenessof differences.
And that has been reallyspecial and I still have a lot
of work to do to keep buildingthat, but it lights me up to be
(30:23):
able to do that work.
Angelica (30:24):
That's amazing.
So on that music.
What kind of.
How does that go?
What do you cover there?
Bryson (30:31):
Yeah, we dive into the realities of being a music
teacher lesson ideas, but alsohow to get organized and how to
structure things and how tojuggle all of the things,
because there's so manydifferent things involved and we
take it so many differentdirections.
But really the main goal ofthat podcast is to get what we
refer and we refer to as to getoff of music teacher island,
(30:53):
because music teachers arelikely the only music teacher in
their building, sometimes evenin their district.
So, building that community sowe can support each other and
that we can build each other up,because it's so much easier
when we're not doing it alone.
Cassy (31:06):
Definitely.
Angelica (31:07):
Yeah, that's true In a lot of different areas.
Having community is veryimportant.
So where are you going withthat music teacher?
What, ultimately, would youlike to accomplish with your
business?
Bryson (31:20):
Oh, I always struggle with those big picture because I
never thought I'd be here.
My big goal is to just keepgrowing our events, get more
professional development infront of more teachers, but also
sprinkle in the how can we makethe classrooms of the teachers
that we work with for everyone?
The phrase music is foreveryone is thrown around so
much, but it's my life missionto make sure that we mean it,
(31:42):
and that requires doing somework and that requires teachers
to know what that work is.
So that's the journey that I'mon is to start them on their own
journey.
Angelica (31:48):
Okay, and do you feel the inclusivity in both dealing
with student with disabilitiesas well as dealing with clear
students, or do you keep thosethings separate, or how do you?
How does that work for?
Bryson (32:02):
you.
I definitely.
My graduate research line ismore on on the disability side
of things but what I do think isreally interesting is, at a
foundational level, when we'retalking about creating an
inclusive environment for, let'ssay, neuro, break those down or
at least to give that, givepeople the tools to work with
(32:29):
those barriers and startbreaking them down and working
around them.
But it's the same tools and I Ihaven't explicitly done a lot
of work with that the sexualityside of things but I'm also not
shying away from it anymorebecause if that's not something
that you're willing to talkabout or understand that there
are differences out there, I'mnot the coach for you because
(32:50):
our values aren't aligned andthat's okay.
Like all my people are outthere and the teachers that are
ready to do this work are outthere.
Angelica (32:58):
Are you primarily serving teachers in Ohio or
nationwide?
Bryson (33:04):
What's wonderful about my company is we are somehow a
worldwide business.
We are.
We do a lot of work in NorthAmerica, but we have a growing
contingency in Australia and theUnited Kingdom because a lot of
what we do is asynchronous andvirtual.
So we get to really spread thework around and do a lot of work
a little bit here and there.
Angelica (33:21):
That's amazing.
So if someone wanted to getyour instructional coaching into
their district, how would theygo about doing that?
Bryson (33:30):
If you want to start a conversation with me, instagram
direct messages is a great placeto start, also sending an email
Hello at that music teacher dotcom.
Or you can check out ourwebsite at that music teacher
dot com.
We have a section where we talka lot about the different
offerings that we do, but any ofthose ways will get you into
contact with either myself orsomeone on my team.
Cassy (33:53):
And we'd love to figure out what would be a good fit for
you.
You can sell, all right, bryson.
What are your last words ofadvice, or just your last word
to our listeners.
Bryson (33:59):
Oh, it's a really good one.
I'm gonna do it.
I'll do a little too, a littletoo firm.
The first is for anyone thatdoesn't likely these types of
people aren't listening to yourpodcast, but I'm gonna shout it
out anyway.
There are gay kids and transkids in the schools in your
community, whether you know itor not yeah and, on the same
flip side of that, the samething goes with teachers.
There are teachers that are partof that community as well, and
(34:21):
we need to make sure that we'remaking it a place where they
feel welcome and safe, becauseif you don't't feel welcome, you
don't feel safe, you're notgoing to learn and you're not
going to be a great teacher.
Cassy (34:29):
That's right.
Bryson, you mentioned thatthere may not be those
quote-unquote people listeningto the podcast and for Demetre,
those people sometimes pay moreattention to what's going on in
the LGBTQ plus community.
Okay, listeners.
There you have it, brysonTarbett, an advocate for
(34:50):
inclusivity in the musicindustry.
He is a founder of that musicteacher and a former pre-k
teacher, and currently he's alsoa music teacher.
He's an advocate and a changemaker.
Thank you, bryson, for being ona Queer Understanding Podcast.
Bryson (35:08):
Thank you so much for having me.
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