July 3, 2025 • 59 mins
In this final episode of the series, Silla Watt-Cloutier reflects on the meaning of conscious climate leadership and how leading from the heart is a radical act of hope, especially when faced with the urgent and enduring threats of climate change and colonialism.
She’ll explore how to stay rooted in the healing power of Indigenous Knowledges with planetary health leader Dr. Nicole Redvers. And, former premier of Greenland, Aleqa Hammond, joins Siila for a discussion on navigating the increasing global interest in the Arctic while maintaining a deep sense of responsibility to Indigenous values, Knowledges, communities and lands.
Siila concludes A Radical Act of Hope with a call to action, inviting everyone to embody the principles of conscious leadership, platform Indigenous voices, and set differences aside to work together through the climate challenges that affect us all.
About the Guests
Dr. Nicole Redvers
Dr. Nicole Redvers, DPhil, ND, MPH, is a member of the Deninu K’ue First Nation (NWT) and has worked with Indigenous patients, scholars, and communities around the globe her entire career. She is an Associate Professor in the Department of Epidemiology and Biostatistics, and is a Western Research Chair and Director of Indigenous Planetary Health at the Schulich School of Medicine & Dentistry, at Western University.
As the director of Indigenous Planetary Health, Dr. Redvers heads transdisciplinary research into Indigenous medical Knowledges. She has been actively involved at regional, national, and international levels promoting the inclusion of Indigenous perspectives in both human and planetary health research and practice. Her research interests are syncretic and far-reaching, including Indigenous Health, Planetary Health, Traditional Medicine, Indigenous Knowledge Translation, and Indigenous Global Health.
Aleqa Hammond
Aleqa Hammond is a Greenlandic politician and member of the Greenlandic Parliament (Inatsisartut). Formerly the leader of the Siumut party, she became the country’s first female premier in 2013. Until recently, she also served as a member of the Danish Folketing (Parliament), wherein she was Chair of the Greenland Committee.
In the late 1980s, Aleqa studied at the Teachers Education College and also the Arctic College in Nunavut. She went on to work in various roles, including a human rights and environmental organization, Inuit Circumpolar Council, and within the tourism industry. Between 1999 and 2003, she was commissioner of the Inuit Circumpolar Council, and also worked on the 2002 Arctic Winter Games. From 2004 to 2005 she worked in the tourism industry in Qaqortoq as a tourist guide. She ran for Parliament in 2005, where she was elected with the fifth highest number of personal votes. She has been Minister of Family and Justice, and subsequently of Foreign Affairs and Finance.
About the Hosts
Siila Watt-Cloutier
Siila Watt-Cloutier is a lifelong advocate for the rights of Inuit and a leading voice in climate action. Her groundbreaking work h
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Welcome to A Radical Act of Hope.
In this series, Inuk climate advocate Siila Watt-Cloutier brings us into her world, a worldwhere melting ice isn't just a symptom of climate change.
It's a disruption of memory, identity, and the rhythms of life in the North.
She takes us from her home in the Arctic to the front lines of international climatejustice, alongside those who have been speaking up and holding steady for decades.
(00:32):
You know, as women start to become more vocal and put themselves into leadership roles,and I think as the youth movements, which really inspire me, start to move in those
directions of leading from the heart, leading consciously, and really protecting theirfuture, I think that radical act of hope, I see evidence of it in all of the talks that I
(00:55):
give, the circles that I'm around, and the hardworking people that are there trying tomake that happen.
There are other means and ways in which we can lead ourselves out of this crisis thatwe're in in this world today.
And it doesn't have to be a raging voice.
And we've got to lead consciously, with intention, and from the heart.
(01:16):
My name is Janna Wale.
I'm Gitxsan from Gitaanmax First Nation on my dad's side and Cree Metis on my mother'sside.
I work as the Indigenous Research and Partnerships Lead at the Pacific Institute forClimate Solutions.
I'll be joining you on this journey with Siila, who reminds us that climate work isn't onlytechnical or political.
It's also spiritual, emotional, and deeply personal.
(01:40):
Together, we'll reflect on her incredible legacy and explore what it means to carry wisdomforward across generations and through this moment of global transformation.
This isn't just a climate story.
It's a story about the connection between people and place.
and all that sustains us.
(02:01):
In this final episode in the series, I welcome you to reflect on everything we've shared,what conscious climate leadership means, and what a radical act of hope might look like
for you.
We'll be joined by two more Indigenous leaders who have inspired me, Planetary Healthresearcher Dr.
Nicole Redverse and former Premier of Greenland, Aleqa Hammond.
(02:25):
We'll hear the powerful examples they've shown.
of radical hope and leadership in the face of climate change and colonialism.
A radical act of hope is a collaboration between Siila Watt-Cloutier and the PacificInstitute for Climate Solutions, or PICS, at the University of Victoria.
My name is Ian Mauro, and as the executive director of PICS, I'm honoured to join you aswe listen to the powerful voice of my friend and colleague, Siila.
(02:56):
We acknowledge with respect the Lekwungen speaking peoples on whose traditional territorythis podcast was produced, and the Songhees, Esquimalt, and WSANEC peoples whose
historical relationships with the land continue to this day.
As we've journeyed alongside Siila and heard her remarkable story, from her beginnings inthe Arctic to advocating for human rights on the world stage, she has shown us that
(03:21):
leadership isn't just about making decisions or holding power.
Instead, she demonstrates it's about leading with a deep sense of connection, withcalmness, and with humility.
I want to be able to share with you, because I think it's really important, what has madeit even more clear to me.
about what conscious leadership is.
(03:43):
And it was from reading a book called Cassandra Speaks by Elizabeth Lesser.
And she says these things that just, you know, really blew me away, where she says, wiseconscious leadership knows the difference between strength and force.
Strength comes from a deep inner confidence, from loving and respecting and expressingone's own authentic self.
(04:07):
And force comes from a deep inner wound and spawns the urge
to dominate and even the score.
And this one really touched me profoundly because I recall someone once said, I would beraging if I were you.
And I responded by saying, I don't rage.
This is not my way.
(04:28):
I work from an authentic space and my space is not about raging.
And Elizabeth Lesser says, there's a difference.
A conscious leadership knows the difference between outrage and rage.
Outrage is holy anger, triggering a strong emotional response to the pain of others, butnever dehumanizing others and fills her sails to persuade, guide and create.
(04:54):
And rage is like a forest fire.
It is impatient, vindictive and short-sighted.
And women, she said, are more readily tend to befriend and communicate as opposed tocommand and control.
When women are the storytellers,
the human story changes.
Selah's leadership is a reflection of the powerful Indigenous women who have come beforeher and who have walked alongside her.
(05:21):
Her mother, her grandmother, and her community members.
Through their own unique stories, these women have modeled the importance of nurturingchange with love, wisdom, and responsibility.
Dr.
Nicole Redvers is one of those women.
Her heart-centered leadership style aligns with Siilas in many ways.
She is an award-winning researcher and professor specializing in planetary health, whichtakes a holistic look at the solutions to climate change rather than focusing on the
(05:50):
problem alone.
In Nicole's work, bridges are built between Western science and the wisdom of the land.
So welcome to this podcast, Nicole.
I'm just really pleased that you've taken the time to spend this time with us thismorning.
the work that I've been doing and leading up to the second book that I will be writing,Unconscious Leadership.
(06:11):
It was really important for me to share the platform with women that I have a great dealof respect for and that I feel can really contribute to this conversation.
It's really nice to see you.
So I want to start, Nicole, by introducing you.
Nicole Redvers is a member of the Deninu K'ue First Nation in Treaty 8 Territory,Northwest Territories in Canada.
(06:34):
and has worked with Indigenous patients, scholars and communities around the globe herentire career.
She is an Associate Professor, Western Research Chair and Director of Indigenous PlanetaryHealth at the Schulich School of Medicine and Dentistry at Western University and also
currently serving as Vice President Research at the Association of Faculties of Medicineof Canada, AFMC.
(06:59):
She has been actively involved in regional, national and international levels promotingthe inclusion of Indigenous perspectives in both human and planetary health research and
practice.
Dr.
Redverse is the author of the trade paperback book titled, The Science of the Sacred,Bridging Global Indigenous Medicine Systems and Modern Scientific Principles.
(07:22):
She is the proud mum of two daughters, is a passionate berry picker when she has a chanceto visit home.
I relate to that.
and her favorite place is being by the water back home in the Northwest Territories.
So in your role that you have as Director of Indigenous Planetary Health, how do you seeIndigenous communities uniquely contributing to the broader discourse on planetary health?
(07:47):
So the meaning and applications of planetary health are really rooted in community values,traditions, cultures, languages that have existed for thousands of years.
So really...
When I use the term planetary health, I often specify it as Indigenous planetary healthand really using the word to frankly leverage the use of it at national and international
(08:11):
tables to make it more knowledge translatable in some ways to the policy circles oracademic circles that are working with the term.
But then at the same time, I'm not using climate change because for me, climate change, ofcourse, is a huge issue, but that's the problem.
And I don't want to...
frame my work under the problem, I want to frame my work under the solution, which isgetting the planet back to health.
(08:33):
And that can be inclusive of climate change and biodiversity loss and pollution and marinedegradation and all of those kinds of components.
Now, from an indigenous perspective, I see it very differently because planetary health isin some ways, you know, a Euro-Western centric term, because we don't see ourselves
separate from the planet.
You know, we are the planet.
We are in and of itself land and the waters that surround us.
(08:55):
Nicole's work helps us to understand how Indigenous knowledges and leadership are notseparate from the planet, but are a living, breathing embodiment of them.
Healing the planet begins with healing ourselves, our communities, and our connections toone another.
But as Siila and I have both experienced, bridging this kind of approach with Westernscience and efforts to address climate change is not an easy task.
(09:21):
How do you navigate?
the challenges of integrating Indigenous knowledge systems within the predominantlyWestern frameworks of global health initiatives?
Yeah, it's a great question and it's a framing actually that I often call out in globalhealth circles.
This idea of integration in some ways can be misinterpreted as assimilation.
(09:44):
And I've always taken the approach that it's about bridging and partnership as opposed totrying to mould.
or change Indigenous peoples in their ways of knowing, their ways of being, and their waysof applying that knowledge in the world, you know, from a foundational sense.
And so far, in the conversations and some of the policy work that I've done, that approachhas been successful, although sometimes there's still a lot of policy barriers in the way,
(10:12):
you know, when you're trying to approach many kinds of complex solutions, butultimately...
My elders have often shared to me that it's not our way to change, to try to fit into asystem.
Let's see how we can partner.
Let's see how we can bridge work together.
Nicole has witnessed firsthand what happens when Western ideas and approaches to climatesolutions don't consider the potential impacts on Indigenous communities.
(10:36):
Can you just expand a little bit more about some of your own uh focus on what yourpriorities are at this time in the work that you do?
A few in particular I think that have been really eye-opening in some ways for me, justwrapping up a project right now that's been going on for about three years with colleagues
and Indigenous community leaders from around the world where we had a number of hubsincluding in Northern Europe with Sami, but also Ojac in Kenya, Batwan, Uganda, Indigenous
(11:06):
communities in Northern Thailand as well as India.
And all of them were having the shared experience of being forcibly evicted from theirlands due to conservation policies, particularly led from carbon credits, but also from
some of the 30 by 30 initiatives where many countries in the world have committed tosaving 30 % of first land by 2030.
(11:27):
But the unfortunate reality has been as it's led to a lot of forest land evictions becausein many countries in the world where indigenous peoples are either not recognized or don't
have rights.
Conservation usually means no people, despite of course Indigenous peoples being very wellknown to be the best stewards of their environment, higher rates of biodiversity, so it's
kind of mind-boggling and in fact one of the communities was violently evicted during theproject time.
(11:52):
Just as Siila had collected the testimonies of Inuit hunters and elders to paint a vividpicture of the effects of climate change in the Arctic.
Nicole gathered stories from the Indigenous communities impacted by misguided landconservation and decarbonization policies.
So what we were doing was helping to collect stories and narratives and help to share boththe physical but also the mental and emotional impacts of the land evictions to create
(12:18):
more awareness for conservation organizations and others that are supporting countries inthese kinds of policies and maybe not realizing that it's resulting in Indigenous.
rights violations in many places.
And in fact, you know, most people when they have carbon credit offsets, whether it's fortheir air flights or for other kinds of things, again, the landscape was so complicated
(12:40):
that, you know, even for me, I was unaware of how difficult it is for many Indigenouscommunities around the globe with these new carbon credit initiatives.
In fact,
community that was forcibly evicted in Kenya found out two days later that the United ArabEmirates had just purchased 30 % of Kenyan land for carbon credits and it included the
swath of their territories without their permission.
(13:01):
So these kinds of things have just been really concerning but at the same time againcreated an opportunity for many Indigenous communities to come together worldwide that are
sharing similar lived experiences with these kinds of
policies that often are driven from climate change and biodiversity initiatives at theinternational level without really consideration of some of the impacts that it is having
(13:22):
on Indigenous communities, yet the same circles uplifting Indigenous knowledges, you know,and the benefits.
The other thing that's been increasing at the international level is the World HealthOrganization has created a Climate Change and Ethics Advisory Committee, and there's
increasing work from that committee in mobilizing conversations with Indigenous peoples intheir communities because we often
(13:43):
are at the nexus of many of the ethical implications that are occurring, whether or not itis, again, from things like lithium extraction for batteries for cars in this change
towards so-called greener economies, but also wind farms in Samilands, for example,obscuring the reindeer herding area.
So a lot of these kinds of issues are coming up and there hasn't really been anexamination of those ethical issues in the context of climate change and what that
(14:07):
actually means for the well-being of Indigenous peoples.
So that's another project that
I've been contributing to and we're hoping to have a gathering perhaps at the end of thisyear, the beginning of next year to really start to examine this from community
perspectives and how our voices can be elevated within these kinds of conversations goingforward.
It's so important for the world to understand that even those who are fighting climatechange can still make those huge mistakes and disrespect for Indigenous lands as they do
(14:35):
that in the name of protecting our planet.
m
(15:07):
families or those that are struggling, moms with new babies.
They often get food boxes that are delivered if they are able to be successful in applyingfor this program, but there was a lot of complaints that the food that was being delivered
was not very healthy, wasn't inclusive of lot of traditional foods.
And one of the common replies back from the federal agency was that there was no researchdata to be able to support the benefits of these foods, which again, you know, is mind
(15:31):
boggling to us.
So what we ended up doing was partnering with that same federal agency, which was a littlebit of a stretch for me, to be honest, because I don't usually work with government very
often, but it was a federal nutrition program.
And what I had kept hearing about in different kinds of studies was
the idea that if people were exposed to trauma, so people that experienced the Holocaustand even things like residential schools, that it would impact them so deep that it would
(15:56):
change the expression of their genes.
So the word is epigenetic, of course.
And then those trauma, expression of the trauma genes or these stress factors could bepassed down to future generations, even though those children and grandchildren didn't
necessarily experience those traumas.
When I kept hearing about this, I thought, okay, well, if that's the case with traumas,then what about the good stuff?
(16:19):
What happens if we eat our traditional foods?
What happens if we participate in ceremonies?
Do those land connections, do those same kind of things happen at that deep level?
Does it change the expression all the way down to the fundamental level, which is theexpression of our genes?
For many Indigenous people, very picking is an important connection to our identities andour cultures.
(16:40):
The nutritional value we get from the berries is just one of their many benefits.
Nicole's bridging work has demonstrated what Indigenous communities have known since timeimmemorial, that our traditional foods are medicine and have the power to heal.
So we actually devised a study looking at a traditional berry that's available around theGreat Lakes in that area.
(17:01):
And when people consumed it for six weeks, we made it into a juice.
and we partnered with our science friends who were able to measure the epigeneticexpression effects of this particular food over a period of time.
After the six-week period, we were actually able to show that one of the inflammatorygenes were actually suppressed.
So that means that it was lowering the amount of inflammation that was happening.
(17:25):
So it was really a...
For me, a change again to more that strength-based kind of question.
Yes, the traumas are there.
Yes, the experiences are there.
But what about the good things?
And this was one of the first studies that I know of that partnered um our Indigenousknowledges with Western science and being able to demonstrate fundamentally down to the
(17:45):
smallest we can go, which is the expression of our genes that our traditional foods arepositively affecting us.
There's all kinds of other incredible
Spirit building, soulful building, processes that come with eating and hunting and eatingour country food and sharing it as a community, as a family and the ceremonies that come
with all of that are really important to feeling that euphoria that we feel when we eatcountry food together.
(18:10):
Or as you say, you go berry picking, I'm the same.
I just, call it my spirit week or spirit two weeks when I start to go and pick berriesbecause the land is just so healing.
So that's incredible that that is happening.
It's led to some interesting questions about what do other kinds of things do if we do goon the land, if we go into ceremony, oh is there similar kinds of processes?
(18:34):
And my suspect is yes, but we've been so focused on the problematization and thedeficit-based questions of our communities and what's causing problems that we've...
not been able to focus so much on what's actually the good things and how is thisdemonstrated.
And in my mind, helps with the goal of this one to demonstrate to a federal funding agencythat our foods and our way of knowing is good and they're worthy of investment.
(18:57):
Siila had the chance to work with Nicole and other Indigenous leaders on another importantproject.
A commission urgently addressing the health challenges of Arctic Indigenous peoples forthe Landsat, one of the world's oldest and best known Western medical journals.
The Lancet Commission on Arctic Health was convened to examine the deep health disparitiesin Indigenous communities caused by the destructive legacy of colonialism and climate
(19:22):
change, explore the underlying factors that influence health and wellbeing, and provide aroadmap to improve the health of Arctic peoples.
The work that we've done together on urgently addressing circumpolar health for the LancetJournal that is being now, I think, edited and then should be out within the next year or
so, I imagine.
(19:42):
and I believe that you had reached out after, was it after reading my book or hearingabout some of the work that I was doing and we just, we connected in that way.
And I asked if you could send me some of the writings that you have done and some of thework.
And that's when I became extremely blown away by the style in which you write and thecontent in which you write makes it so very understandable.
(20:07):
Like it was very different from the academic writing that I was used to and trying to wadethrough documents to see whether I could decipher and understand them in a strong way.
I was in awe of your work.
So I'm really pleased that we were able to reconnect with this other work that we did afew years later.
Composed of a majority of Arctic Indigenous peoples, including Siila, Nicole, and manyother Indigenous health experts and collaborators across the Arctic,
(20:35):
The commission surveyed economic, social, cultural, political, and spiritual determinantsof health and wellbeing for Arctic Indigenous peoples.
It provided a golden microphone through which to share stories and lessons about healthand wellness of Arctic Indigenous people from an Indigenous perspective.
I know that you have been helping us, certainly under the leadership of Dalee Sambó Doróugh,who is just a remarkable woman herself.
(21:02):
who has contributed so much to our Inuit world and the Indigenous world through her workat the UN and UNDRIP.
And of course, she's a professor in Alaska, but she's been involved with ICC for manyyears and she's just coming out of being the ICC chair.
And Lisa Adams from Dartmouth College, of course, you know, the two of them were the twoco-chairs of the work that brought us together once again.
(21:25):
And that you were able to, again, with your remarkable...
way of not just looking at the detail in the writing, but your remarkable way of lookingat the large picture of how structures even, how all of these are even written in a
structural form, were just incredibly helpful to us in that work.
(21:45):
So I want to express my gratitude to you for having done that with us.
It was through this collaboration that Siila realized Nicole's approach to leadership wasvery much aligned with her own way of reaching out to the world.
I feel much more hopeful when I know that people like yourself are working on these issuesat that level.
And you're probably quite a rarity though, I think, in many ways, pioneering this kind ofapproach and really just making a mark in the world in that way.
(22:13):
And if you recall the time I read your LinkedIn post and I responded to it because I justfelt it was just a powerful statement.
Nicole shared a few words of wisdom from her talk at the Planetary Health Annual Meetingheld in Malaysia
in April of 2024.
Her quote read, we've been speaking to people's brains and we need to be speaking topeople's hearts.
(22:36):
If we forget what we're fighting for, solutions will be based on fear and anxiety insteadof the love and care for the planet.
Yeah, that was the Planetary Health Alliance conference.
Yeah, was the first time actually that dialogue had occurred in Asia.
was quite an interesting experience.
You know, I used to think that we had to try to just like...
(22:57):
get people to understand these issues and this, you know, kind of like banging against thewall to get them to understand.
But now I think you spoke in line with, we have to now open up their hearts to understandand be in that way.
It's always challenging in academic conferences because you're treading a fine linesometime.
I used to think that the way to change the world was to speak loudly, far and wide withfierceness.
(23:21):
And I know now the way to change the world is to speak quietly from deep within with love.
I've been really lucky and humbled to be able to learn and be with many elders where I seethat demonstrated so clearly.
You know, just speaking from the heart and how everybody stops, everybody's quiet,everybody listens because it resonates at a different frequency.
(23:42):
Frankly, you know, my elders have motivated me very deeply, particularly the ones upnorth, but also humbled, you know, of the ones that I've gotten to meet along the way.
Even folks like you who have been out in the international.
scream because to be honest, there's not many of us that go to that level.
So hence why I reached out originally after writing your book, because you end up being inall these circles and nobody's sort of there that comes from community or understands that
(24:09):
community-based language.
So I seek a lot of motivation from people like you and others that have forged the way,you know, done it and been able to make impact while at the same time staying rooted
within my community and really ensuring that
those lessons that they taught me about, you know, me not being more important than anaunt, that we're just all part of the community and we just do our role and we provide the
(24:33):
service that we can and that's a responsibility for me and it's what drives me.
As we followed Siila's story and the stories of Indigenous women who inspire her, we'velearned that the Arctic is on the front lines of climate change.
And in the current political climate, the melting Arctic has become a focal point onceagain, as the impacts of global change are felt more intensely than ever.
(24:58):
We are at a critical moment in geopolitical history in a very real way.
The Arctic is being potentially carved up right now.
You know, for trade routes, for critical minerals, for all kinds of geopoliticalpositioning.
And it's Inuit territory.
It's home to Indigenous people.
(25:19):
And Siila's voice right now in this context is tremendously important.
Conscious leadership in this context is about claiming agency and about leading withintegrity.
What happens as the ice melts will depend on the leadership we choose today.
CBS News senior foreign correspondent Holly Williams has more for us from Greenland.
(25:41):
We've heard President Trump talk a lot in recent months about taking over Greenland.
So we came here to find out why he wants this remote place to become U.S.
territory.
Now Greenland is roughly three times the size of Texas, mostly covered in ice sheet with apopulation of about 56,000, mostly Inuit who are indigenous to this place.
(26:05):
What better way to underline the importance of conscious leadership in the present momentthan for Siila to welcome another powerful Indigenous woman to the conversation, Aleqa
Hammond, fellow Inuk and former Premier of Greenland.
Aleqa Hammond is a Greenlandic politician and member of the Greenlandic Parliament,formerly the leader of the Semut party.
(26:27):
And until recently, she also served as a member of the Danish Folketting Parliament.
wherein she was chair of the Greenland Committee.
And Alqa also was born in Nasak, South Greenland, and raised in Oumimma, North Greenland.
As a seven-year-old, she lost her father, who was hunting.
(26:50):
Her mother stood alone as a 27-year-old with three young children, and she wascommissioner for the Inuit Circumpolar Council, and also worked on the 2002 Arctic Winter
Games.
From 2004 to 2005, she worked in the tourism industry in Qaqortoq as a tourist guide.
(27:10):
She ran for parliament in 2005, where she was elected with the fifth highest number ofpersonal votes.
And she has been Minister of Family and Justice and subsequently of Foreign Affairs andFinance.
And Aleqa was made chairman of the C-Mute party in 2009.
Quite the accomplishments, my dear.
(27:31):
Well, good to be here with you, Sheila.
I will try to do my best to answer your questions.
I'm sure you'll do wonderful.
You've spoken a lot about adaptation and opportunity in the face of climate change.
What does responsible climate leadership look like in a place where the land is bothvulnerable and so resource rich?
That balance that we are all facing in our homelands, but certainly Greenland is one ofthose major ones that everybody is now talking about as well.
(27:59):
According to
The geologists and scientists, they're saying that the future deposits of oil and gasesare within the Arctic territory.
And Greenland being 20 % of all that, the chance that you might find oil and gases inGreenland is very high.
That alone itself puts Greenland under big pressure from outside, outside world that islooking for riches and economic prosperity for themselves.
(28:27):
The pressure is enormous.
But first of all, the climate changing in Greenland, the ice retrieving, the ice cap ismelting all year round now.
That means the fjords are more ice free than they ever were before.
The temperature is not as cold as they have been before.
The sea ice does not set many places.
And Umea,, the region where I'm from, that always have had sea ice and we can drive dogsledges and snowmobiles and cars on the sea ice this time of the year.
(28:55):
You can't go out neither with a boat or the...
dog teams.
It changes the lifestyles and the cultures of Inuit living here.
Those people that are making a living out of fishing, making a living out of hunting, uhand making a living out of nature and environment, they can't predict whether the ice is
coming or not.
(29:16):
A lot of people no longer see it as an option to become hunters.
They are looking for jobs on land that might not be there.
So it means that we, on political level, we have to find
another option on how we can combat the negative impact of the climate change.
We refuse to be victimized because of that.
It requires for us to think out of the box, think in new economic solutions, think of newways on how we can take advantage of the new changes that Greenland is forced to be under.
(29:48):
As the ice melts and global powers continue to turn their attention to the Arctic,Greenland finds itself at a crossroads.
For many indigenous peoples, land and water are central to culture and wellbeing and arenow under intense scrutiny for their financial value.
And the choices facing the small, resilient population of Greenland are more complex thanever.
(30:08):
These are not easy choices and they raise profound questions about how to navigateprogress without sacrificing the core values of community, sustainability and
self-determination.
Greenland alone in South Greenland has a deposit of rare earth's minerals.
That is the biggest deposit of the world.
If Greenland was to open that, it would break China's monopoly on rare earth's minerals.
(30:33):
And that is big.
That is big stuff.
And is Greenland to open that?
Is Greenland to not to open that?
Is Greenland having other options on how to gain economic growth out of these challengingtimes because of the ice retrieving?
We see great potential in
tourism development.
Now everybody talking about Greenland, Visit Greenland is predicting the biggest amount oftourists ever coming to Greenland in Greenland history already now.
(31:00):
And Nuuk International Airport has opened.
We have already started to receive plane strike from Paris, from Canada, from Copenhagen,from Iceland.
And there are flights coming in from all different kinds of countries already this year.
So we are going to be seeing economic changes in Greenland so fast that
I hope that everybody is prepared for that.
(31:22):
Remember that we are only 56,000 people living in a country that is on everybody's lipsand living in a country that has so much riches and living in a country where the riches
in the future are being very accessible due to ice retrieving requires that we have agovernment and a population that is very, very alert and very
(31:46):
observant on what is changing and what kind of political instruments do we have to protectourselves from the superpowers that either want our country, buy our people, and want to
invade us because of the riches, because none of them are doing it because they think weare cute.
They're only doing it because they can earn something out of it and gain power.
(32:07):
So that requires for a small population like ours that is asking for independence andworking for independence has to play our cards very smart.
And I think that alone itself is another chapter.
up for a small population on the world stage requires a certain strength and approach toleadership that both Siila and Alika know intimately.
(32:31):
Alika certainly knew how to play her cards at a critical moment for Greenland.
During my office as Premier of Greenland, we were trying to funding for the newinternational airport.
We building two at the same time.
And our economy is not strong enough to finance it all totally.
So it requires that we have funding from outside.
I went to Copenhagen and talked to the Prime Minister of Denmark and said, well, listen,we have this and this project and we'll be needing international funds.
(33:01):
because we have a mutual history and you must be of interest to Denmark that Greenland haseconomic growth in tourism in the future.
You will be our natural partner.
can maybe find a good loan or maybe, you know, find a good solution.
Absolute nothing.
They don't even want to put it on the agenda.
They don't even want to talk to us.
So I said, well, if Denmark is not showing any willingness on being part of that, I'll begoing to the international market.
(33:26):
And they said, yeah, you do that.
Do you know what I did?
I asked China for a cup of tea to Greenland, to come to Greenland.
Because I knew that China is showing great interest in funding projects in the Arctic andthey want to put the foot into the Arctic.
And the Chinese came within the same week with a whole delegation of 20, 25 people.
And I had my cup of tea with them.
(33:48):
Of course, I would never make any deal with China.
We know what China stands for and does not stand for.
But this cup of tea has an address to be noticed by Copenhagen and Washington, D.C.
And it worked.
Within the same month.
The defense minister of Denmark was invited to Washington DC for a political talk.
(34:10):
There, United States told Denmark that they do not like that Greenland flirts too muchwith China.
You pay whatever Greenland is asking for.
Give it to them.
Because, of course, you are supporting Greenland's economic growth for being a goodpartner to Greenland.
And within the same week, Danish came and wanted to finance 1.5 billion Danish kroner forgood friends they are.
(34:34):
and supporting Greenland economic growth.
They're not doing it because they think that we are worth supporting.
This is no longer Danish interests in Greenland investment.
Now this is American interests, NATO interests that need to be secured.
And this message was sent to China.
And the same year as we got the funding, Americans built the first consulate here.
(34:57):
They're not doing it also because they think that we are cute.
They're doing it.
to show Russians that this is American soil, so to speak.
This is a fight between China, Russia, United States, and we are in between.
And I know how to play my cards right that we at the end get what we want.
And I think this is very important for inward leadership that you think out of the boxnow.
(35:22):
So we got our airport.
All it takes was a cup of tea.
uh
Aleqa's path to leadership was not unlike Siila's.
Her strength and unique approach molded by the matriarchs of her family and modeled by herstrong Inuit community.
My mother raising us alone and she had to be a fighter and she also was a fighter.
(35:47):
She had no one to turn to besides family and fellow citizens that gave her meat and mettawhen they have caught something.
Otherwise, she to work really hard to ensure that our life was good.
And we were always her priority number one.
She never wanted to remarry because she wanted to focus on us three children.
(36:08):
That alone itself has shown me what leadership is.
Indeed, indeed.
But then later on, I found out that after I started to be the first contestor or the firstfemale to stand up,
against the men that have been leading our country.
People started to ask me questions about, where do you get the strength?
(36:32):
Why is it that you as a woman is standing up against these men?
I noticed also after I won the election against Gubbe Kleist, I realized that it had anenormous uh impact on women in our society.
We have never seen so many women in a parliament as we do now.
(36:55):
And we are world leading for most women in the parliament.
And I noticed also that within the next election to the municipal councils, we have neverhad that many female candidates ever as we did.
You paved the way.
You paved the way and created the space for other women to follow.
(37:15):
Definitely.
That's incredible.
What role does intergenerational knowledge play in strong Indigenous leadership today?
And how would you see your own leadership shaped by those who came before you?
I'm a proud Inuk because I grew up among proud men, proud women, and no one waited foranyone to make any decision for them.
(37:39):
And I think also I got that from my grandmother's generation and her grandmother'sgeneration and my mother and I.
The way you speak to one another, the way you acknowledge your culture, the strength inyou and your identity and integrity being a proud Inuk is the biggest tool I ever could
(37:59):
get.
That no one ever can give me or that no one can teach me and that no one can take awayfrom me because I lived right in the center of it.
I always consider it as being the philosophy behind.
upbringing of Inuit to be able to withstand anything around you.
(38:19):
As pressure mounts on Greenland to continue to fight for its independence, Alqa isinspired by the next generation of young people taking ownership of that movement.
But for those men that fought for our rights until Greenland got its own government andparliament in 1979, their work, their heart is thanks to them that the younger people
(38:43):
could stand up.
also to be behind them and fight with them and work with them and continue the work thatthey passed on to us.
A big majority of the young people today feel ownership to the independence movement ofGreenland, which is way stronger and more than I have hoped for.
And I think that I'm very proud to be part of this generation that have also given mytalks to the young people.
(39:08):
Talking about independence is not the question of political independence.
It is also economic independency, it's personal independency, it's cultural independency.
Yes, absolutely.
Well said, well said.
With the work that you have done and the modeling that you have done, you have alreadybeen mentoring young people with the way and the style in which you have led and the
(39:31):
strength that you've given to the leadership roles that you've had.
Both Siila and Alika have experienced straddling two complex worlds.
they both had to balance the requirements of working effectively within political arenaswhile maintaining a deep sense of responsibility to their Indigenous values, knowledge,
communities and lands.
(39:51):
I want to ask you, as someone who has walked between political institutions and Indigenouscommunities, how do you stay grounded and accountable to both those arenas?
It is very important that you stay focused.
The Self-Rule Act from 2009 says that Greenlanders can become independent wheneverGreenlanders themselves decide when to become.
(40:16):
It is not up to Copenhagen to decide that.
So Greenland is working very hard to strengthen our economy so we can become economicallyindependent from Denmark.
And on that path, is very important that Greenland is very much aware of the options andpossibilities that our country has.
Also during a time where there is a climate change and the pressure for the minerals fromoutside is as high and also military pressure is very high.
(40:42):
So it's important to think, are we going to make Greenland economy stronger by makingbilateral agreement with other countries or are we going to make Greenland economy
stronger in terms of more tourism?
How are we to protect ourselves?
And I think it is important that Greenlanders are aware of the international political
(41:02):
instruments that are there to protect us.
As threats to the Arctic grow, staying grounded and holding on to what's important mattersmore than ever.
President Trump says he wants to take control of Greenland for security reasons and he'srefused to rule out using force.
(41:26):
Some important background to that is that the US and Russia are vying for militarydominance in the Arctic and climate change is melting the ice and making lucrative mineral
reserves more accessible here in Greenland.
Some people here have told us they believe what Trump really wants is Greenland's naturalresources and they do not trust him.
(41:46):
A recent poll here found that 85% of Greenlanders do not want to be part of the UnitedStates.
Trump wants to buy Greenland or wants to annex the United States.
And he's even saying that he's even willing to come up with the military taking overGreenland if it was up to him.
(42:07):
Threats like this that we see from outside means that Greenland's strategic location inthe international arena is very, very important to...
protection of the North American continent.
What is it that protects us?
Remember that Greenland is part of the NATO.
The NATO agreement that the United States also is part of and Denmark is part of, thatthey have an obligation to protect Greenland from any military attacks.
(42:33):
So Trump alone itself cannot come with this kind of threats.
And if that comes up, the United Nations Security Council will be stopping them.
So it's impossible for him to do so.
So he changed his tone and saying now, now he wants to give us 10,000 US dollars eachperson.
Hasn't this guy understood that Greenland, we are not for sale.
(42:54):
We are not a piece of merchandise as Inuit are not piece of merchandise you can just buyand get rid of as you like.
This country has its own parliament and government.
And if you are to be a state man, an important person politically, if you wanted to betaken seriously,
respect the international diplomacy, respect the international universal human rights,respect the United Nations Declaration of Indigenous Peoples' Rights, respect the
(43:24):
different kinds of agreements that the United States has also agreed upon, also on NATO.
If you respect all these agreements that you have had as a country on the United States,you will not be treating Greenland the way you are trying to treat us.
It's important that the population know of their own rights.
And I think that the government of Greenland and the parliament as well have a great jobahead to ensure, to make people know of what kind of rights we have that protect us and
(43:54):
give us a safe sleep at night.
Despite the impending threats on Greenland, Alika has not lost hope.
I personally have always said that independence of Greenland is within my lifetime.
I will be experiencing the day where Greenland will be independent because it is possible.
I want to be there in a day, on that day when we raise our flag, we sing our NyonakputUtokkasvangoravit national hymn.
(44:20):
And I will be wearing my pearls and I will be wearing my skin clothes, the beautifulnational garments of Greenland.
And there will be a universal declaration, the entire world will be knowing, todayGreenland is an independent nation.
Can you imagine of a greater day?
I want to be there.
I want to be there to experience this greatest day.
(44:41):
ever in our history.
Reclaiming back your country before the state we were at before colonization.
It's time for people to think big.
It's time to think people in pride in being Inuit, reclaiming yourself.
Time to give hope, time to give strength, time to empower people, time to talk of yourselfand not explaining anyone about anything.
(45:11):
The agenda is yours.
And I think this kind of thinking is very, very important for any leadership to give toits people.
And that is the greatest hope I think I can give anyone.
Indeed, indeed.
And that vision that you have, Alika, that you've just been talking about is somethingthat is so powerful and it's an image and the imagining of that and the visioning of that
(45:36):
will manifest.
It's a process, of course, but it will manifest because it is to be so.
But it's that next generation that you spoke about earlier.
If they carry that strongly, it will come to be in your lifetime.
And I honour that work that you have done and I honour what you are doing already and youcontinue to do as you envisage that and imagine that future that will come to be for
(46:01):
Greenland and for all of us.
And I hope to be there, too, to celebrate that day.
And as Lina said,
Our hunters and ancestors did not wake up fearful of anything.
They woke up strong.
They woke up being able to go out and meet the most huge challenges with the biggestchallenging climate environment that we live in the world and yet persevere and prevail
(46:26):
and not give up.
And we're here.
We're still here and we're strong.
So Nakurmiik Aleqa.
for sharing your views, your energy, your spirit.
And I long to come and visit you and spend time with you soon.
Yeah, come, come.
Let's continue our dinner parties when you come back.
Thank you so much for having me.
(46:48):
For leaders like Silla, Aleqa, and Nicole, the true strength of the land lies in itspeople.
In the world of conscious leadership and radical hope, change does not come from a singlevoice.
It comes from the gathering of many voices.
Dr.
Nicole Redvers shares a final story.
(47:11):
I was trying to envision how to sort of explain the momentum of many Indigenouscommunities around the world.
And the only thing I could think of was when you drop a bunch of pebbles inside a pond ora water and, you know, it creates a bunch of ripples, but the ripples interact with each
other.
And I was imagining, you know, a lot of this indigenous sort of hub work, if I could say,around the world being like pebbles dropped in the water.
(47:35):
And, sometimes there's one community that might have a bigger rock and create more of awave than others, but it's still all sort of interconnected and connected with all the
pebbles that are being thrown in.
So I kind of see the work like that.
It's not something that's just stable.
It's moving.
It's interactive.
There's a lot of changing.
parts that happen.
But ultimately, what we've seen is a real appetite from many Indigenous communities tocome together.
(47:59):
Because the reality is, is when you're one little small community in the middle of Kenya,or in the Fiji Islands, or in a place in Aboriginal Australia, a lot of times that voice
doesn't get heard.
what I've realized over the last number of years is that when we coalesce our voices morestrategically.
coming together with similar concerns and similar issues and voice that.
(48:20):
People seem to listen a little bit more for whatever reason.
It's not just one little pocket now, it's multiple voices saying similar things and Ithink there's some real resonance and power with that.
I'm Janna Wale, Indigenous Research and Partnerships Lead at the Pacific Institute forClimate Solutions.
(48:41):
Thanks for joining us on this journey exploring the life and impact of Siila Watt-Cloutier,an Inuk climate leader who has changed the world and continues to advocate for a healthier
planet.
Throughout Siila's story, she's demonstrated just this unbelievable faith in her people andher culture and her community and also the youth.
(49:01):
And I think that it's really about
you know, giving that back and continuing to embody those principles that Siilademonstrates through her story.
There's so many reasons to have hope.
There's so many good things that are happening.
There's so many strong, smart, passionate people that are working on these big problemsand we really do need everybody.
So it feels hopeless a lot of the time, but it really isn't.
(49:25):
It's really just about finding the thing that you're good at and using your passions,your...
skills, your background to kind of drive the work forward in any way that you can.
I'm Ian Mauro, Executive Director of PICS, and it has been an honour to be here with youas we've listened to Siila's story and to also have had her as our inaugural Indigenous
(49:45):
Climate Fellow.
Siila's work on conscious climate leadership is a radical act of hope.
She's showing us how to think through the issues of our time in a heart-centred way, in away that's deeply personal.
but it's also connected to science, politics, and the complexity that the world isnavigating right now and shows us that when you show up and you do that work and you do it
(50:07):
in a good way, you create the change that we know we need to create a healthy planet and ahealthy generation of people moving forward.
And that is inspiring, it's hopeful, and it really is the kind of medicine the worldneeds.
It's meant a lot to me to have this kind of space and offer.
my words and my experiences and all of that to the world, I guess, in a sense.
(50:32):
You know, because I've been really personally involved in all of these issue areas, youknow, trying to humanize these issues.
And we're constantly reminded how taking action on greenhouse gas emissions is negativelygoing to impact our economy and the way in which we live, you know, and people are so
afraid to make really strong efforts.
(50:55):
to do this.
But really, I think this is kind of the same lame excuse which has been played all toooften.
And so that's why I'm doing what I'm doing with this podcast is trying to get that messageback out there.
Where especially now, you know, with the leadership and the Arctic being a real focalpoint.
Siila, it's been such a good journey listening to all the stories on this podcast.
(51:20):
We had Nicole, we had Aleqa, we had Janna, we had Leena.
and the kind of multiplicity of perspectives.
We heard some really insightful kind of comments and thoughts around, you know, the issuesthat you're raising here.
Well, first, I was so honoured that they all accepted to do that.
know, Leena has been a visionary for 20 years, working on these issues of making sure thatour language and culture is being taught in the right way by the right people.
(51:47):
And of course, Aleqa, very dynamic leader that she is and was as premier.
of Greenland in the past and how she continues to be just this remarkable voice thatshines through.
And Nicole Redverse, mean, brilliant author, thinker, doer on planetary health in theworld, on Indigenous planetary health.
(52:09):
And Janna, the young leader that she already is, you know, it's just really, I am deeplyhonoured to have shared that, the podium with them in that way, in the platform.
So again, I say Nakurmiik and thank you to them for sharing their incredible expertise andexperiences.
And that's what I think really matters is getting those voices heard from the ground.
(52:34):
Because I think that's going to be the way forward in terms of conscious leadership thatreally has meaning and resonance of truth with others who are living the reality of all of
these changes today in our world and our planet.
Any thoughts on conscious leadership and that idea of radical hope?
know, we've been talking about it's the name of the podcast.
It seems like within that kind of humility and in that sharing, there is a kind of radicalspirit that was happening here.
(53:01):
I see that sense of hopelessness in many, you know, thinking, oh my goodness, my child iscrying very often because she's thinking that she will never reach the age of 40.
You know, and I've heard others, you know, say,
I tell my grandchildren they'll never reach my age at 80 or whatever the case may be and Isay no, there can't be that kind of narrative or that messaging to the next generations.
(53:26):
There's got to be hope given that things are going to shift.
And I think, you know, as women start to become more vocal and put themselves intoleadership roles and I think as the youth movements, which really inspire me, start to
move in those directions of leading from the heart, leading consciously.
and really protecting their future.
(53:48):
I think that radical act of hope, I see evidence of it in all of the talks that I give,the circles that I'm around, and the hardworking people that are there trying to make that
happen.
There are other means and ways in which we can lead ourselves out of this crisis thatwe're in in this world today.
And it doesn't have to be a raging voice.
(54:09):
It doesn't have to be the things that we see today.
that are just atrocious and that these wars that are killing off so many people.
And we know what that's like to have been gone through as Indigenous peoples, to have beencolonized and to have been stripped of our identities in the horrific ways that we have
(54:30):
been.
And so we've got to change that shift and that energy in how we live on a daily basis, butmore so how we lead.
And we've got to lead consciously, with intention.
and from the heart.
It's amazing to know you, honestly.
It is amazing to know you and to be able to hear these words.
(54:50):
And I guess I'm just curious, you know, what's your next radical act of hope?
Where do you think this is going, Siila?
Well, I mean, there's a lot seems to be converging for me, you know, in these last quite afew months now, especially since the podcast work that we've been doing together.
And that's one big step for me to be coming back out like that with this kind of mediumand with this remarkable team that we've been working with.
(55:13):
But also the film, Tough Old Broads by Stacey Tenenbaum from Montreal will be coming outshortly as well, you know, in the next months or this year on three older women in their
seventies that are still passionately working hard at what they do.
And she swallowed me for over two years.
So that's going to be, you know.
(55:35):
putting me out there again as well.
And of course, there's this other big documentary that will eventually be an Arcticseries.
And I was interviewed quite extensively for it that will be out on Netflix in the comingyear or so.
And the Lancet work, you know, that I've worked with Nicole Redvers and of course, headedby Daly Sambodoro from Alaska, Nino, wonderful leader in her own right, very much so.
(55:59):
And Lisa Adams from...
Dartmouth College, you know, they co-chaired this piece that will be coming out too in thenext perhaps six months or so, which is the Lancet Journal, which is a highly influential
journal from the UK on urgently addressing circumpolar health in the circumpolar world inthe Arctic.
That will be coming out as well.
(56:20):
So this was always my intention, the platform of the work that we've been doing, gettingmy energy flow going, my focus, my juices going.
is to write my second book on conscious leadership, Leading from Heart.
So this is the beginning of all of that.
Do you want to kind of share any parting thoughts on just the importance of thatIndigenous wisdom as we deal with the complexity of the world and try to steer towards
(56:45):
that good path that you're talking about?
The lessons and the learnings and the answers to what we're faced with are not far removedfrom us.
In fact, they are right in front of us in our culture, our language.
and our values and principles as Inuit and as indigenous people.
And so that's the medicine for us that we seek.
(57:06):
But that indigenous medicine is also what the world seeks in my opinion, and the opinionof many, I believe.
And we are trying to share that through many avenues, not just me and my voice, butthrough art, performing arts, films, jewelry making.
bringing back the traditional ways of throat singing and drum dancing, all of these thingsthat build back the spirit of people, not just our people, but through all of that, we are
(57:36):
teaching the world just how wonderful our culture is and how giving it is and howgrounding it is.
And so for me, you know, it's really about that medicine that we seek is the medicine theworld seeks in terms of attaining sustainability.
and we should be seen not as victims to globalization, but as teachers of sustainabilityand all of these issues that are lacking in the world today.
(58:02):
Well, thank you for your human story.
It's a good one and one that we all can learn from.
Visit climatsolutions.ca to learn more about how Pacific Institute for Climate Solutionsis supporting climate action.
This podcast was made with respect, gratitude, and a radical act of hope by EverythingPodcast and the Pacific Institute for Climate Solutions.
(58:30):
PICS would like to thank the Gordon Foundation and the University of Victoria for theirsupport of Siila's Indigenous Climate Fellowship and this podcast.
Our hosts are Siila Watt-Cloutier,
Janna Wale and Ian Mauro.
Our executive producers, Jennifer Smith.
Editor in chief, Dawn Schafer.
Showrunner, Jessica Grajczyk.
Our writers, Eva Grant.
(58:51):
Sound design by Scott Whitaker.
Production support by Cindy McDougall.
Thanks for listening.
This podcast was produced on the lands of the Lekwungen-speaking and WSANEC peoples.
Our guests come from Indigenous lands across this country known as Canada and the world.
Wherever you may be listening from, we thank you for joining us on this storytellingjourney.
(59:13):
Another Everything Podcast production.
Visit everythingpodcast.com, a division of Pattison Media.
Subscribe wherever you get your podcast.
Welcome to A Radical Act of Hope.
In this series, Inuk climate advocate Siila Watt-Cloutier brings us into her world, a worldwhere melting ice isn't just a symptom of climate change.
It's a disruption of memory, identity, and the rhythms of life in the North.
She takes us from her home in the Arctic to the front lines of international climatejustice, alongside those who have been speaking up and holding steady for decades.
(00:32):
You know, as women start to become more vocal and put themselves into leadership roles,and I think as the youth movements, which really inspire me, start to move in those
directions of leading from the heart, leading consciously, and really protecting theirfuture, I think that radical act of hope, I see evidence of it in all of the talks that I
(00:55):
give, the circles that I'm around, and the hardworking people that are there trying tomake that happen.
There are other means and ways in which we can lead ourselves out of this crisis thatwe're in in this world today.
And it doesn't have to be a raging voice.
And we've got to lead consciously, with intention, and from the heart.
(01:16):
My name is Janna Wale.
I'm Gitxsan from Gitaanmax First Nation on my dad's side and Cree Metis on my mother'sside.
I work as the Indigenous Research and Partnerships Lead at the Pacific Institute forClimate Solutions.
I'll be joining you on this journey with Siila, who reminds us that climate work isn't onlytechnical or political.
It's also spiritual, emotional, and deeply personal.
(01:40):
Together, we'll reflect on her incredible legacy and explore what it means to carry wisdomforward across generations and through this moment of global transformation.
This isn't just a climate story.
It's a story about the connection between people and place.
and all that sustains us.
(02:01):
In this final episode in the series, I welcome you to reflect on everything we've shared,what conscious climate leadership means, and what a radical act of hope might look like
for you.
We'll be joined by two more Indigenous leaders who have inspired me, Planetary Healthresearcher Dr.
Nicole Redverse and former Premier of Greenland, Aleqa Hammond.
(02:25):
We'll hear the powerful examples they've shown.
of radical hope and leadership in the face of climate change and colonialism.
A radical act of hope is a collaboration between Siila Watt-Cloutier and the PacificInstitute for Climate Solutions, or PICS, at the University of Victoria.
My name is Ian Mauro, and as the executive director of PICS, I'm honoured to join you aswe listen to the powerful voice of my friend and colleague, Siila.
(02:56):
We acknowledge with respect the Lekwungen speaking peoples on whose traditional territorythis podcast was produced, and the Songhees, Esquimalt, and WSANEC peoples whose
historical relationships with the land continue to this day.
As we've journeyed alongside Siila and heard her remarkable story, from her beginnings inthe Arctic to advocating for human rights on the world stage, she has shown us that
(03:21):
leadership isn't just about making decisions or holding power.
Instead, she demonstrates it's about leading with a deep sense of connection, withcalmness, and with humility.
I want to be able to share with you, because I think it's really important, what has madeit even more clear to me.
about what conscious leadership is.
(03:43):
And it was from reading a book called Cassandra Speaks by Elizabeth Lesser.
And she says these things that just, you know, really blew me away, where she says, wiseconscious leadership knows the difference between strength and force.
Strength comes from a deep inner confidence, from loving and respecting and expressingone's own authentic self.
(04:07):
And force comes from a deep inner wound and spawns the urge
to dominate and even the score.
And this one really touched me profoundly because I recall someone once said, I would beraging if I were you.
And I responded by saying, I don't rage.
This is not my way.
(04:28):
I work from an authentic space and my space is not about raging.
And Elizabeth Lesser says, there's a difference.
A conscious leadership knows the difference between outrage and rage.
Outrage is holy anger, triggering a strong emotional response to the pain of others, butnever dehumanizing others and fills her sails to persuade, guide and create.
(04:54):
And rage is like a forest fire.
It is impatient, vindictive and short-sighted.
And women, she said, are more readily tend to befriend and communicate as opposed tocommand and control.
When women are the storytellers,
the human story changes.
Selah's leadership is a reflection of the powerful Indigenous women who have come beforeher and who have walked alongside her.
(05:21):
Her mother, her grandmother, and her community members.
Through their own unique stories, these women have modeled the importance of nurturingchange with love, wisdom, and responsibility.
Dr.
Nicole Redvers is one of those women.
Her heart-centered leadership style aligns with Siilas in many ways.
She is an award-winning researcher and professor specializing in planetary health, whichtakes a holistic look at the solutions to climate change rather than focusing on the
(05:50):
problem alone.
In Nicole's work, bridges are built between Western science and the wisdom of the land.
So welcome to this podcast, Nicole.
I'm just really pleased that you've taken the time to spend this time with us thismorning.
the work that I've been doing and leading up to the second book that I will be writing,Unconscious Leadership.
(06:11):
It was really important for me to share the platform with women that I have a great dealof respect for and that I feel can really contribute to this conversation.
It's really nice to see you.
So I want to start, Nicole, by introducing you.
Nicole Redvers is a member of the Deninu K'ue First Nation in Treaty 8 Territory,Northwest Territories in Canada.
(06:34):
and has worked with Indigenous patients, scholars and communities around the globe herentire career.
She is an Associate Professor, Western Research Chair and Director of Indigenous PlanetaryHealth at the Schulich School of Medicine and Dentistry at Western University and also
currently serving as Vice President Research at the Association of Faculties of Medicineof Canada, AFMC.
(06:59):
She has been actively involved in regional, national and international levels promotingthe inclusion of Indigenous perspectives in both human and planetary health research and
practice.
Dr.
Redverse is the author of the trade paperback book titled, The Science of the Sacred,Bridging Global Indigenous Medicine Systems and Modern Scientific Principles.
(07:22):
She is the proud mum of two daughters, is a passionate berry picker when she has a chanceto visit home.
I relate to that.
and her favorite place is being by the water back home in the Northwest Territories.
So in your role that you have as Director of Indigenous Planetary Health, how do you seeIndigenous communities uniquely contributing to the broader discourse on planetary health?
(07:47):
So the meaning and applications of planetary health are really rooted in community values,traditions, cultures, languages that have existed for thousands of years.
So really...
When I use the term planetary health, I often specify it as Indigenous planetary healthand really using the word to frankly leverage the use of it at national and international
(08:11):
tables to make it more knowledge translatable in some ways to the policy circles oracademic circles that are working with the term.
But then at the same time, I'm not using climate change because for me, climate change, ofcourse, is a huge issue, but that's the problem.
And I don't want to...
frame my work under the problem, I want to frame my work under the solution, which isgetting the planet back to health.
(08:33):
And that can be inclusive of climate change and biodiversity loss and pollution and marinedegradation and all of those kinds of components.
Now, from an indigenous perspective, I see it very differently because planetary health isin some ways, you know, a Euro-Western centric term, because we don't see ourselves
separate from the planet.
You know, we are the planet.
We are in and of itself land and the waters that surround us.
(08:55):
Nicole's work helps us to understand how Indigenous knowledges and leadership are notseparate from the planet, but are a living, breathing embodiment of them.
Healing the planet begins with healing ourselves, our communities, and our connections toone another.
But as Siila and I have both experienced, bridging this kind of approach with Westernscience and efforts to address climate change is not an easy task.
(09:21):
How do you navigate?
the challenges of integrating Indigenous knowledge systems within the predominantlyWestern frameworks of global health initiatives?
Yeah, it's a great question and it's a framing actually that I often call out in globalhealth circles.
This idea of integration in some ways can be misinterpreted as assimilation.
(09:44):
And I've always taken the approach that it's about bridging and partnership as opposed totrying to mould.
or change Indigenous peoples in their ways of knowing, their ways of being, and their waysof applying that knowledge in the world, you know, from a foundational sense.
And so far, in the conversations and some of the policy work that I've done, that approachhas been successful, although sometimes there's still a lot of policy barriers in the way,
(10:12):
you know, when you're trying to approach many kinds of complex solutions, butultimately...
My elders have often shared to me that it's not our way to change, to try to fit into asystem.
Let's see how we can partner.
Let's see how we can bridge work together.
Nicole has witnessed firsthand what happens when Western ideas and approaches to climatesolutions don't consider the potential impacts on Indigenous communities.
(10:36):
Can you just expand a little bit more about some of your own uh focus on what yourpriorities are at this time in the work that you do?
A few in particular I think that have been really eye-opening in some ways for me, justwrapping up a project right now that's been going on for about three years with colleagues
and Indigenous community leaders from around the world where we had a number of hubsincluding in Northern Europe with Sami, but also Ojac in Kenya, Batwan, Uganda, Indigenous
(11:06):
communities in Northern Thailand as well as India.
And all of them were having the shared experience of being forcibly evicted from theirlands due to conservation policies, particularly led from carbon credits, but also from
some of the 30 by 30 initiatives where many countries in the world have committed tosaving 30 % of first land by 2030.
(11:27):
But the unfortunate reality has been as it's led to a lot of forest land evictions becausein many countries in the world where indigenous peoples are either not recognized or don't
have rights.
Conservation usually means no people, despite of course Indigenous peoples being very wellknown to be the best stewards of their environment, higher rates of biodiversity, so it's
kind of mind-boggling and in fact one of the communities was violently evicted during theproject time.
(11:52):
Just as Siila had collected the testimonies of Inuit hunters and elders to paint a vividpicture of the effects of climate change in the Arctic.
Nicole gathered stories from the Indigenous communities impacted by misguided landconservation and decarbonization policies.
So what we were doing was helping to collect stories and narratives and help to share boththe physical but also the mental and emotional impacts of the land evictions to create
(12:18):
more awareness for conservation organizations and others that are supporting countries inthese kinds of policies and maybe not realizing that it's resulting in Indigenous.
rights violations in many places.
And in fact, you know, most people when they have carbon credit offsets, whether it's fortheir air flights or for other kinds of things, again, the landscape was so complicated
(12:40):
that, you know, even for me, I was unaware of how difficult it is for many Indigenouscommunities around the globe with these new carbon credit initiatives.
In fact,
community that was forcibly evicted in Kenya found out two days later that the United ArabEmirates had just purchased 30 % of Kenyan land for carbon credits and it included the
swath of their territories without their permission.
(13:01):
So these kinds of things have just been really concerning but at the same time againcreated an opportunity for many Indigenous communities to come together worldwide that are
sharing similar lived experiences with these kinds of
policies that often are driven from climate change and biodiversity initiatives at theinternational level without really consideration of some of the impacts that it is having
(13:22):
on Indigenous communities, yet the same circles uplifting Indigenous knowledges, you know,and the benefits.
The other thing that's been increasing at the international level is the World HealthOrganization has created a Climate Change and Ethics Advisory Committee, and there's
increasing work from that committee in mobilizing conversations with Indigenous peoples intheir communities because we often
(13:43):
are at the nexus of many of the ethical implications that are occurring, whether or not itis, again, from things like lithium extraction for batteries for cars in this change
towards so-called greener economies, but also wind farms in Samilands, for example,obscuring the reindeer herding area.
So a lot of these kinds of issues are coming up and there hasn't really been anexamination of those ethical issues in the context of climate change and what that
(14:07):
actually means for the well-being of Indigenous peoples.
So that's another project that
I've been contributing to and we're hoping to have a gathering perhaps at the end of thisyear, the beginning of next year to really start to examine this from community
perspectives and how our voices can be elevated within these kinds of conversations goingforward.
It's so important for the world to understand that even those who are fighting climatechange can still make those huge mistakes and disrespect for Indigenous lands as they do
(14:35):
that in the name of protecting our planet.
m
(15:07):
families or those that are struggling, moms with new babies.
They often get food boxes that are delivered if they are able to be successful in applyingfor this program, but there was a lot of complaints that the food that was being delivered
was not very healthy, wasn't inclusive of lot of traditional foods.
And one of the common replies back from the federal agency was that there was no researchdata to be able to support the benefits of these foods, which again, you know, is mind
(15:31):
boggling to us.
So what we ended up doing was partnering with that same federal agency, which was a littlebit of a stretch for me, to be honest, because I don't usually work with government very
often, but it was a federal nutrition program.
And what I had kept hearing about in different kinds of studies was
the idea that if people were exposed to trauma, so people that experienced the Holocaustand even things like residential schools, that it would impact them so deep that it would
(15:56):
change the expression of their genes.
So the word is epigenetic, of course.
And then those trauma, expression of the trauma genes or these stress factors could bepassed down to future generations, even though those children and grandchildren didn't
necessarily experience those traumas.
When I kept hearing about this, I thought, okay, well, if that's the case with traumas,then what about the good stuff?
(16:19):
What happens if we eat our traditional foods?
What happens if we participate in ceremonies?
Do those land connections, do those same kind of things happen at that deep level?
Does it change the expression all the way down to the fundamental level, which is theexpression of our genes?
For many Indigenous people, very picking is an important connection to our identities andour cultures.
(16:40):
The nutritional value we get from the berries is just one of their many benefits.
Nicole's bridging work has demonstrated what Indigenous communities have known since timeimmemorial, that our traditional foods are medicine and have the power to heal.
So we actually devised a study looking at a traditional berry that's available around theGreat Lakes in that area.
(17:01):
And when people consumed it for six weeks, we made it into a juice.
and we partnered with our science friends who were able to measure the epigeneticexpression effects of this particular food over a period of time.
After the six-week period, we were actually able to show that one of the inflammatorygenes were actually suppressed.
So that means that it was lowering the amount of inflammation that was happening.
(17:25):
So it was really a...
For me, a change again to more that strength-based kind of question.
Yes, the traumas are there.
Yes, the experiences are there.
But what about the good things?
And this was one of the first studies that I know of that partnered um our Indigenousknowledges with Western science and being able to demonstrate fundamentally down to the
(17:45):
smallest we can go, which is the expression of our genes that our traditional foods arepositively affecting us.
There's all kinds of other incredible
Spirit building, soulful building, processes that come with eating and hunting and eatingour country food and sharing it as a community, as a family and the ceremonies that come
with all of that are really important to feeling that euphoria that we feel when we eatcountry food together.
(18:10):
Or as you say, you go berry picking, I'm the same.
I just, call it my spirit week or spirit two weeks when I start to go and pick berriesbecause the land is just so healing.
So that's incredible that that is happening.
It's led to some interesting questions about what do other kinds of things do if we do goon the land, if we go into ceremony, oh is there similar kinds of processes?
(18:34):
And my suspect is yes, but we've been so focused on the problematization and thedeficit-based questions of our communities and what's causing problems that we've...
not been able to focus so much on what's actually the good things and how is thisdemonstrated.
And in my mind, helps with the goal of this one to demonstrate to a federal funding agencythat our foods and our way of knowing is good and they're worthy of investment.
(18:57):
Siila had the chance to work with Nicole and other Indigenous leaders on another importantproject.
A commission urgently addressing the health challenges of Arctic Indigenous peoples forthe Landsat, one of the world's oldest and best known Western medical journals.
The Lancet Commission on Arctic Health was convened to examine the deep health disparitiesin Indigenous communities caused by the destructive legacy of colonialism and climate
(19:22):
change, explore the underlying factors that influence health and wellbeing, and provide aroadmap to improve the health of Arctic peoples.
The work that we've done together on urgently addressing circumpolar health for the LancetJournal that is being now, I think, edited and then should be out within the next year or
so, I imagine.
(19:42):
and I believe that you had reached out after, was it after reading my book or hearingabout some of the work that I was doing and we just, we connected in that way.
And I asked if you could send me some of the writings that you have done and some of thework.
And that's when I became extremely blown away by the style in which you write and thecontent in which you write makes it so very understandable.
(20:07):
Like it was very different from the academic writing that I was used to and trying to wadethrough documents to see whether I could decipher and understand them in a strong way.
I was in awe of your work.
So I'm really pleased that we were able to reconnect with this other work that we did afew years later.
Composed of a majority of Arctic Indigenous peoples, including Siila, Nicole, and manyother Indigenous health experts and collaborators across the Arctic,
(20:35):
The commission surveyed economic, social, cultural, political, and spiritual determinantsof health and wellbeing for Arctic Indigenous peoples.
It provided a golden microphone through which to share stories and lessons about healthand wellness of Arctic Indigenous people from an Indigenous perspective.
I know that you have been helping us, certainly under the leadership of Dalee Sambó Doróugh,who is just a remarkable woman herself.
(21:02):
who has contributed so much to our Inuit world and the Indigenous world through her workat the UN and UNDRIP.
And of course, she's a professor in Alaska, but she's been involved with ICC for manyyears and she's just coming out of being the ICC chair.
And Lisa Adams from Dartmouth College, of course, you know, the two of them were the twoco-chairs of the work that brought us together once again.
(21:25):
And that you were able to, again, with your remarkable...
way of not just looking at the detail in the writing, but your remarkable way of lookingat the large picture of how structures even, how all of these are even written in a
structural form, were just incredibly helpful to us in that work.
(21:45):
So I want to express my gratitude to you for having done that with us.
It was through this collaboration that Siila realized Nicole's approach to leadership wasvery much aligned with her own way of reaching out to the world.
I feel much more hopeful when I know that people like yourself are working on these issuesat that level.
And you're probably quite a rarity though, I think, in many ways, pioneering this kind ofapproach and really just making a mark in the world in that way.
(22:13):
And if you recall the time I read your LinkedIn post and I responded to it because I justfelt it was just a powerful statement.
Nicole shared a few words of wisdom from her talk at the Planetary Health Annual Meetingheld in Malaysia
in April of 2024.
Her quote read, we've been speaking to people's brains and we need to be speaking topeople's hearts.
(22:36):
If we forget what we're fighting for, solutions will be based on fear and anxiety insteadof the love and care for the planet.
Yeah, that was the Planetary Health Alliance conference.
Yeah, was the first time actually that dialogue had occurred in Asia.
was quite an interesting experience.
You know, I used to think that we had to try to just like...
(22:57):
get people to understand these issues and this, you know, kind of like banging against thewall to get them to understand.
But now I think you spoke in line with, we have to now open up their hearts to understandand be in that way.
It's always challenging in academic conferences because you're treading a fine linesometime.
I used to think that the way to change the world was to speak loudly, far and wide withfierceness.
(23:21):
And I know now the way to change the world is to speak quietly from deep within with love.
I've been really lucky and humbled to be able to learn and be with many elders where I seethat demonstrated so clearly.
You know, just speaking from the heart and how everybody stops, everybody's quiet,everybody listens because it resonates at a different frequency.
(23:42):
Frankly, you know, my elders have motivated me very deeply, particularly the ones upnorth, but also humbled, you know, of the ones that I've gotten to meet along the way.
Even folks like you who have been out in the international.
scream because to be honest, there's not many of us that go to that level.
So hence why I reached out originally after writing your book, because you end up being inall these circles and nobody's sort of there that comes from community or understands that
(24:09):
community-based language.
So I seek a lot of motivation from people like you and others that have forged the way,you know, done it and been able to make impact while at the same time staying rooted
within my community and really ensuring that
those lessons that they taught me about, you know, me not being more important than anaunt, that we're just all part of the community and we just do our role and we provide the
(24:33):
service that we can and that's a responsibility for me and it's what drives me.
As we followed Siila's story and the stories of Indigenous women who inspire her, we'velearned that the Arctic is on the front lines of climate change.
And in the current political climate, the melting Arctic has become a focal point onceagain, as the impacts of global change are felt more intensely than ever.
(24:58):
We are at a critical moment in geopolitical history in a very real way.
The Arctic is being potentially carved up right now.
You know, for trade routes, for critical minerals, for all kinds of geopoliticalpositioning.
And it's Inuit territory.
It's home to Indigenous people.
(25:19):
And Siila's voice right now in this context is tremendously important.
Conscious leadership in this context is about claiming agency and about leading withintegrity.
What happens as the ice melts will depend on the leadership we choose today.
CBS News senior foreign correspondent Holly Williams has more for us from Greenland.
(25:41):
We've heard President Trump talk a lot in recent months about taking over Greenland.
So we came here to find out why he wants this remote place to become U.S.
territory.
Now Greenland is roughly three times the size of Texas, mostly covered in ice sheet with apopulation of about 56,000, mostly Inuit who are indigenous to this place.
(26:05):
What better way to underline the importance of conscious leadership in the present momentthan for Siila to welcome another powerful Indigenous woman to the conversation, Aleqa
Hammond, fellow Inuk and former Premier of Greenland.
Aleqa Hammond is a Greenlandic politician and member of the Greenlandic Parliament,formerly the leader of the Semut party.
(26:27):
And until recently, she also served as a member of the Danish Folketting Parliament.
wherein she was chair of the Greenland Committee.
And Alqa also was born in Nasak, South Greenland, and raised in Oumimma, North Greenland.
As a seven-year-old, she lost her father, who was hunting.
(26:50):
Her mother stood alone as a 27-year-old with three young children, and she wascommissioner for the Inuit Circumpolar Council, and also worked on the 2002 Arctic Winter
Games.
From 2004 to 2005, she worked in the tourism industry in Qaqortoq as a tourist guide.
(27:10):
She ran for parliament in 2005, where she was elected with the fifth highest number ofpersonal votes.
And she has been Minister of Family and Justice and subsequently of Foreign Affairs andFinance.
And Aleqa was made chairman of the C-Mute party in 2009.
Quite the accomplishments, my dear.
(27:31):
Well, good to be here with you, Sheila.
I will try to do my best to answer your questions.
I'm sure you'll do wonderful.
You've spoken a lot about adaptation and opportunity in the face of climate change.
What does responsible climate leadership look like in a place where the land is bothvulnerable and so resource rich?
That balance that we are all facing in our homelands, but certainly Greenland is one ofthose major ones that everybody is now talking about as well.
(27:59):
According to
The geologists and scientists, they're saying that the future deposits of oil and gasesare within the Arctic territory.
And Greenland being 20 % of all that, the chance that you might find oil and gases inGreenland is very high.
That alone itself puts Greenland under big pressure from outside, outside world that islooking for riches and economic prosperity for themselves.
(28:27):
The pressure is enormous.
But first of all, the climate changing in Greenland, the ice retrieving, the ice cap ismelting all year round now.
That means the fjords are more ice free than they ever were before.
The temperature is not as cold as they have been before.
The sea ice does not set many places.
And Umea,, the region where I'm from, that always have had sea ice and we can drive dogsledges and snowmobiles and cars on the sea ice this time of the year.
(28:55):
You can't go out neither with a boat or the...
dog teams.
It changes the lifestyles and the cultures of Inuit living here.
Those people that are making a living out of fishing, making a living out of hunting, uhand making a living out of nature and environment, they can't predict whether the ice is
coming or not.
(29:16):
A lot of people no longer see it as an option to become hunters.
They are looking for jobs on land that might not be there.
So it means that we, on political level, we have to find
another option on how we can combat the negative impact of the climate change.
We refuse to be victimized because of that.
It requires for us to think out of the box, think in new economic solutions, think of newways on how we can take advantage of the new changes that Greenland is forced to be under.
(29:48):
As the ice melts and global powers continue to turn their attention to the Arctic,Greenland finds itself at a crossroads.
For many indigenous peoples, land and water are central to culture and wellbeing and arenow under intense scrutiny for their financial value.
And the choices facing the small, resilient population of Greenland are more complex thanever.
(30:08):
These are not easy choices and they raise profound questions about how to navigateprogress without sacrificing the core values of community, sustainability and
self-determination.
Greenland alone in South Greenland has a deposit of rare earth's minerals.
That is the biggest deposit of the world.
If Greenland was to open that, it would break China's monopoly on rare earth's minerals.
(30:33):
And that is big.
That is big stuff.
And is Greenland to open that?
Is Greenland to not to open that?
Is Greenland having other options on how to gain economic growth out of these challengingtimes because of the ice retrieving?
We see great potential in
tourism development.
Now everybody talking about Greenland, Visit Greenland is predicting the biggest amount oftourists ever coming to Greenland in Greenland history already now.
(31:00):
And Nuuk International Airport has opened.
We have already started to receive plane strike from Paris, from Canada, from Copenhagen,from Iceland.
And there are flights coming in from all different kinds of countries already this year.
So we are going to be seeing economic changes in Greenland so fast that
I hope that everybody is prepared for that.
(31:22):
Remember that we are only 56,000 people living in a country that is on everybody's lipsand living in a country that has so much riches and living in a country where the riches
in the future are being very accessible due to ice retrieving requires that we have agovernment and a population that is very, very alert and very
(31:46):
observant on what is changing and what kind of political instruments do we have to protectourselves from the superpowers that either want our country, buy our people, and want to
invade us because of the riches, because none of them are doing it because they think weare cute.
They're only doing it because they can earn something out of it and gain power.
(32:07):
So that requires for a small population like ours that is asking for independence andworking for independence has to play our cards very smart.
And I think that alone itself is another chapter.
up for a small population on the world stage requires a certain strength and approach toleadership that both Siila and Alika know intimately.
(32:31):
Alika certainly knew how to play her cards at a critical moment for Greenland.
During my office as Premier of Greenland, we were trying to funding for the newinternational airport.
We building two at the same time.
And our economy is not strong enough to finance it all totally.
So it requires that we have funding from outside.
I went to Copenhagen and talked to the Prime Minister of Denmark and said, well, listen,we have this and this project and we'll be needing international funds.
(33:01):
because we have a mutual history and you must be of interest to Denmark that Greenland haseconomic growth in tourism in the future.
You will be our natural partner.
can maybe find a good loan or maybe, you know, find a good solution.
Absolute nothing.
They don't even want to put it on the agenda.
They don't even want to talk to us.
So I said, well, if Denmark is not showing any willingness on being part of that, I'll begoing to the international market.
(33:26):
And they said, yeah, you do that.
Do you know what I did?
I asked China for a cup of tea to Greenland, to come to Greenland.
Because I knew that China is showing great interest in funding projects in the Arctic andthey want to put the foot into the Arctic.
And the Chinese came within the same week with a whole delegation of 20, 25 people.
And I had my cup of tea with them.
(33:48):
Of course, I would never make any deal with China.
We know what China stands for and does not stand for.
But this cup of tea has an address to be noticed by Copenhagen and Washington, D.C.
And it worked.
Within the same month.
The defense minister of Denmark was invited to Washington DC for a political talk.
(34:10):
There, United States told Denmark that they do not like that Greenland flirts too muchwith China.
You pay whatever Greenland is asking for.
Give it to them.
Because, of course, you are supporting Greenland's economic growth for being a goodpartner to Greenland.
And within the same week, Danish came and wanted to finance 1.5 billion Danish kroner forgood friends they are.
(34:34):
and supporting Greenland economic growth.
They're not doing it because they think that we are worth supporting.
This is no longer Danish interests in Greenland investment.
Now this is American interests, NATO interests that need to be secured.
And this message was sent to China.
And the same year as we got the funding, Americans built the first consulate here.
(34:57):
They're not doing it also because they think that we are cute.
They're doing it.
to show Russians that this is American soil, so to speak.
This is a fight between China, Russia, United States, and we are in between.
And I know how to play my cards right that we at the end get what we want.
And I think this is very important for inward leadership that you think out of the boxnow.
(35:22):
So we got our airport.
All it takes was a cup of tea.
uh
Aleqa's path to leadership was not unlike Siila's.
Her strength and unique approach molded by the matriarchs of her family and modeled by herstrong Inuit community.
My mother raising us alone and she had to be a fighter and she also was a fighter.
(35:47):
She had no one to turn to besides family and fellow citizens that gave her meat and mettawhen they have caught something.
Otherwise, she to work really hard to ensure that our life was good.
And we were always her priority number one.
She never wanted to remarry because she wanted to focus on us three children.
(36:08):
That alone itself has shown me what leadership is.
Indeed, indeed.
But then later on, I found out that after I started to be the first contestor or the firstfemale to stand up,
against the men that have been leading our country.
People started to ask me questions about, where do you get the strength?
(36:32):
Why is it that you as a woman is standing up against these men?
I noticed also after I won the election against Gubbe Kleist, I realized that it had anenormous uh impact on women in our society.
We have never seen so many women in a parliament as we do now.
(36:55):
And we are world leading for most women in the parliament.
And I noticed also that within the next election to the municipal councils, we have neverhad that many female candidates ever as we did.
You paved the way.
You paved the way and created the space for other women to follow.
(37:15):
Definitely.
That's incredible.
What role does intergenerational knowledge play in strong Indigenous leadership today?
And how would you see your own leadership shaped by those who came before you?
I'm a proud Inuk because I grew up among proud men, proud women, and no one waited foranyone to make any decision for them.
(37:39):
And I think also I got that from my grandmother's generation and her grandmother'sgeneration and my mother and I.
The way you speak to one another, the way you acknowledge your culture, the strength inyou and your identity and integrity being a proud Inuk is the biggest tool I ever could
(37:59):
get.
That no one ever can give me or that no one can teach me and that no one can take awayfrom me because I lived right in the center of it.
I always consider it as being the philosophy behind.
upbringing of Inuit to be able to withstand anything around you.
(38:19):
As pressure mounts on Greenland to continue to fight for its independence, Alqa isinspired by the next generation of young people taking ownership of that movement.
But for those men that fought for our rights until Greenland got its own government andparliament in 1979, their work, their heart is thanks to them that the younger people
(38:43):
could stand up.
also to be behind them and fight with them and work with them and continue the work thatthey passed on to us.
A big majority of the young people today feel ownership to the independence movement ofGreenland, which is way stronger and more than I have hoped for.
And I think that I'm very proud to be part of this generation that have also given mytalks to the young people.
(39:08):
Talking about independence is not the question of political independence.
It is also economic independency, it's personal independency, it's cultural independency.
Yes, absolutely.
Well said, well said.
With the work that you have done and the modeling that you have done, you have alreadybeen mentoring young people with the way and the style in which you have led and the
(39:31):
strength that you've given to the leadership roles that you've had.
Both Siila and Alika have experienced straddling two complex worlds.
they both had to balance the requirements of working effectively within political arenaswhile maintaining a deep sense of responsibility to their Indigenous values, knowledge,
communities and lands.
(39:51):
I want to ask you, as someone who has walked between political institutions and Indigenouscommunities, how do you stay grounded and accountable to both those arenas?
It is very important that you stay focused.
The Self-Rule Act from 2009 says that Greenlanders can become independent wheneverGreenlanders themselves decide when to become.
(40:16):
It is not up to Copenhagen to decide that.
So Greenland is working very hard to strengthen our economy so we can become economicallyindependent from Denmark.
And on that path, is very important that Greenland is very much aware of the options andpossibilities that our country has.
Also during a time where there is a climate change and the pressure for the minerals fromoutside is as high and also military pressure is very high.
(40:42):
So it's important to think, are we going to make Greenland economy stronger by makingbilateral agreement with other countries or are we going to make Greenland economy
stronger in terms of more tourism?
How are we to protect ourselves?
And I think it is important that Greenlanders are aware of the international political
(41:02):
instruments that are there to protect us.
As threats to the Arctic grow, staying grounded and holding on to what's important mattersmore than ever.
President Trump says he wants to take control of Greenland for security reasons and he'srefused to rule out using force.
(41:26):
Some important background to that is that the US and Russia are vying for militarydominance in the Arctic and climate change is melting the ice and making lucrative mineral
reserves more accessible here in Greenland.
Some people here have told us they believe what Trump really wants is Greenland's naturalresources and they do not trust him.
(41:46):
A recent poll here found that 85% of Greenlanders do not want to be part of the UnitedStates.
Trump wants to buy Greenland or wants to annex the United States.
And he's even saying that he's even willing to come up with the military taking overGreenland if it was up to him.
(42:07):
Threats like this that we see from outside means that Greenland's strategic location inthe international arena is very, very important to...
protection of the North American continent.
What is it that protects us?
Remember that Greenland is part of the NATO.
The NATO agreement that the United States also is part of and Denmark is part of, thatthey have an obligation to protect Greenland from any military attacks.
(42:33):
So Trump alone itself cannot come with this kind of threats.
And if that comes up, the United Nations Security Council will be stopping them.
So it's impossible for him to do so.
So he changed his tone and saying now, now he wants to give us 10,000 US dollars eachperson.
Hasn't this guy understood that Greenland, we are not for sale.
(42:54):
We are not a piece of merchandise as Inuit are not piece of merchandise you can just buyand get rid of as you like.
This country has its own parliament and government.
And if you are to be a state man, an important person politically, if you wanted to betaken seriously,
respect the international diplomacy, respect the international universal human rights,respect the United Nations Declaration of Indigenous Peoples' Rights, respect the
(43:24):
different kinds of agreements that the United States has also agreed upon, also on NATO.
If you respect all these agreements that you have had as a country on the United States,you will not be treating Greenland the way you are trying to treat us.
It's important that the population know of their own rights.
And I think that the government of Greenland and the parliament as well have a great jobahead to ensure, to make people know of what kind of rights we have that protect us and
(43:54):
give us a safe sleep at night.
Despite the impending threats on Greenland, Alika has not lost hope.
I personally have always said that independence of Greenland is within my lifetime.
I will be experiencing the day where Greenland will be independent because it is possible.
I want to be there in a day, on that day when we raise our flag, we sing our NyonakputUtokkasvangoravit national hymn.
(44:20):
And I will be wearing my pearls and I will be wearing my skin clothes, the beautifulnational garments of Greenland.
And there will be a universal declaration, the entire world will be knowing, todayGreenland is an independent nation.
Can you imagine of a greater day?
I want to be there.
I want to be there to experience this greatest day.
(44:41):
ever in our history.
Reclaiming back your country before the state we were at before colonization.
It's time for people to think big.
It's time to think people in pride in being Inuit, reclaiming yourself.
Time to give hope, time to give strength, time to empower people, time to talk of yourselfand not explaining anyone about anything.
(45:11):
The agenda is yours.
And I think this kind of thinking is very, very important for any leadership to give toits people.
And that is the greatest hope I think I can give anyone.
Indeed, indeed.
And that vision that you have, Alika, that you've just been talking about is somethingthat is so powerful and it's an image and the imagining of that and the visioning of that
(45:36):
will manifest.
It's a process, of course, but it will manifest because it is to be so.
But it's that next generation that you spoke about earlier.
If they carry that strongly, it will come to be in your lifetime.
And I honour that work that you have done and I honour what you are doing already and youcontinue to do as you envisage that and imagine that future that will come to be for
(46:01):
Greenland and for all of us.
And I hope to be there, too, to celebrate that day.
And as Lina said,
Our hunters and ancestors did not wake up fearful of anything.
They woke up strong.
They woke up being able to go out and meet the most huge challenges with the biggestchallenging climate environment that we live in the world and yet persevere and prevail
(46:26):
and not give up.
And we're here.
We're still here and we're strong.
So Nakurmiik Aleqa.
for sharing your views, your energy, your spirit.
And I long to come and visit you and spend time with you soon.
Yeah, come, come.
Let's continue our dinner parties when you come back.
Thank you so much for having me.
(46:48):
For leaders like Silla, Aleqa, and Nicole, the true strength of the land lies in itspeople.
In the world of conscious leadership and radical hope, change does not come from a singlevoice.
It comes from the gathering of many voices.
Dr.
Nicole Redvers shares a final story.
(47:11):
I was trying to envision how to sort of explain the momentum of many Indigenouscommunities around the world.
And the only thing I could think of was when you drop a bunch of pebbles inside a pond ora water and, you know, it creates a bunch of ripples, but the ripples interact with each
other.
And I was imagining, you know, a lot of this indigenous sort of hub work, if I could say,around the world being like pebbles dropped in the water.
(47:35):
And, sometimes there's one community that might have a bigger rock and create more of awave than others, but it's still all sort of interconnected and connected with all the
pebbles that are being thrown in.
So I kind of see the work like that.
It's not something that's just stable.
It's moving.
It's interactive.
There's a lot of changing.
parts that happen.
But ultimately, what we've seen is a real appetite from many Indigenous communities tocome together.
(47:59):
Because the reality is, is when you're one little small community in the middle of Kenya,or in the Fiji Islands, or in a place in Aboriginal Australia, a lot of times that voice
doesn't get heard.
what I've realized over the last number of years is that when we coalesce our voices morestrategically.
coming together with similar concerns and similar issues and voice that.
(48:20):
People seem to listen a little bit more for whatever reason.
It's not just one little pocket now, it's multiple voices saying similar things and Ithink there's some real resonance and power with that.
I'm Janna Wale, Indigenous Research and Partnerships Lead at the Pacific Institute forClimate Solutions.
(48:41):
Thanks for joining us on this journey exploring the life and impact of Siila Watt-Cloutier,an Inuk climate leader who has changed the world and continues to advocate for a healthier
planet.
Throughout Siila's story, she's demonstrated just this unbelievable faith in her people andher culture and her community and also the youth.
(49:01):
And I think that it's really about
you know, giving that back and continuing to embody those principles that Siilademonstrates through her story.
There's so many reasons to have hope.
There's so many good things that are happening.
There's so many strong, smart, passionate people that are working on these big problemsand we really do need everybody.
So it feels hopeless a lot of the time, but it really isn't.
(49:25):
It's really just about finding the thing that you're good at and using your passions,your...
skills, your background to kind of drive the work forward in any way that you can.
I'm Ian Mauro, Executive Director of PICS, and it has been an honour to be here with youas we've listened to Siila's story and to also have had her as our inaugural Indigenous
(49:45):
Climate Fellow.
Siila's work on conscious climate leadership is a radical act of hope.
She's showing us how to think through the issues of our time in a heart-centred way, in away that's deeply personal.
but it's also connected to science, politics, and the complexity that the world isnavigating right now and shows us that when you show up and you do that work and you do it
(50:07):
in a good way, you create the change that we know we need to create a healthy planet and ahealthy generation of people moving forward.
And that is inspiring, it's hopeful, and it really is the kind of medicine the worldneeds.
It's meant a lot to me to have this kind of space and offer.
my words and my experiences and all of that to the world, I guess, in a sense.
(50:32):
You know, because I've been really personally involved in all of these issue areas, youknow, trying to humanize these issues.
And we're constantly reminded how taking action on greenhouse gas emissions is negativelygoing to impact our economy and the way in which we live, you know, and people are so
afraid to make really strong efforts.
(50:55):
to do this.
But really, I think this is kind of the same lame excuse which has been played all toooften.
And so that's why I'm doing what I'm doing with this podcast is trying to get that messageback out there.
Where especially now, you know, with the leadership and the Arctic being a real focalpoint.
Siila, it's been such a good journey listening to all the stories on this podcast.
(51:20):
We had Nicole, we had Aleqa, we had Janna, we had Leena.
and the kind of multiplicity of perspectives.
We heard some really insightful kind of comments and thoughts around, you know, the issuesthat you're raising here.
Well, first, I was so honoured that they all accepted to do that.
know, Leena has been a visionary for 20 years, working on these issues of making sure thatour language and culture is being taught in the right way by the right people.
(51:47):
And of course, Aleqa, very dynamic leader that she is and was as premier.
of Greenland in the past and how she continues to be just this remarkable voice thatshines through.
And Nicole Redverse, mean, brilliant author, thinker, doer on planetary health in theworld, on Indigenous planetary health.
(52:09):
And Janna, the young leader that she already is, you know, it's just really, I am deeplyhonoured to have shared that, the podium with them in that way, in the platform.
So again, I say Nakurmiik and thank you to them for sharing their incredible expertise andexperiences.
And that's what I think really matters is getting those voices heard from the ground.
(52:34):
Because I think that's going to be the way forward in terms of conscious leadership thatreally has meaning and resonance of truth with others who are living the reality of all of
these changes today in our world and our planet.
Any thoughts on conscious leadership and that idea of radical hope?
know, we've been talking about it's the name of the podcast.
It seems like within that kind of humility and in that sharing, there is a kind of radicalspirit that was happening here.
(53:01):
I see that sense of hopelessness in many, you know, thinking, oh my goodness, my child iscrying very often because she's thinking that she will never reach the age of 40.
You know, and I've heard others, you know, say,
I tell my grandchildren they'll never reach my age at 80 or whatever the case may be and Isay no, there can't be that kind of narrative or that messaging to the next generations.
(53:26):
There's got to be hope given that things are going to shift.
And I think, you know, as women start to become more vocal and put themselves intoleadership roles and I think as the youth movements, which really inspire me, start to
move in those directions of leading from the heart, leading consciously.
and really protecting their future.
(53:48):
I think that radical act of hope, I see evidence of it in all of the talks that I give,the circles that I'm around, and the hardworking people that are there trying to make that
happen.
There are other means and ways in which we can lead ourselves out of this crisis thatwe're in in this world today.
And it doesn't have to be a raging voice.
(54:09):
It doesn't have to be the things that we see today.
that are just atrocious and that these wars that are killing off so many people.
And we know what that's like to have been gone through as Indigenous peoples, to have beencolonized and to have been stripped of our identities in the horrific ways that we have
(54:30):
been.
And so we've got to change that shift and that energy in how we live on a daily basis, butmore so how we lead.
And we've got to lead consciously, with intention.
and from the heart.
It's amazing to know you, honestly.
It is amazing to know you and to be able to hear these words.
(54:50):
And I guess I'm just curious, you know, what's your next radical act of hope?
Where do you think this is going, Siila?
Well, I mean, there's a lot seems to be converging for me, you know, in these last quite afew months now, especially since the podcast work that we've been doing together.
And that's one big step for me to be coming back out like that with this kind of mediumand with this remarkable team that we've been working with.
(55:13):
But also the film, Tough Old Broads by Stacey Tenenbaum from Montreal will be coming outshortly as well, you know, in the next months or this year on three older women in their
seventies that are still passionately working hard at what they do.
And she swallowed me for over two years.
So that's going to be, you know.
(55:35):
putting me out there again as well.
And of course, there's this other big documentary that will eventually be an Arcticseries.
And I was interviewed quite extensively for it that will be out on Netflix in the comingyear or so.
And the Lancet work, you know, that I've worked with Nicole Redvers and of course, headedby Daly Sambodoro from Alaska, Nino, wonderful leader in her own right, very much so.
(55:59):
And Lisa Adams from...
Dartmouth College, you know, they co-chaired this piece that will be coming out too in thenext perhaps six months or so, which is the Lancet Journal, which is a highly influential
journal from the UK on urgently addressing circumpolar health in the circumpolar world inthe Arctic.
That will be coming out as well.
(56:20):
So this was always my intention, the platform of the work that we've been doing, gettingmy energy flow going, my focus, my juices going.
is to write my second book on conscious leadership, Leading from Heart.
So this is the beginning of all of that.
Do you want to kind of share any parting thoughts on just the importance of thatIndigenous wisdom as we deal with the complexity of the world and try to steer towards
(56:45):
that good path that you're talking about?
The lessons and the learnings and the answers to what we're faced with are not far removedfrom us.
In fact, they are right in front of us in our culture, our language.
and our values and principles as Inuit and as indigenous people.
And so that's the medicine for us that we seek.
(57:06):
But that indigenous medicine is also what the world seeks in my opinion, and the opinionof many, I believe.
And we are trying to share that through many avenues, not just me and my voice, butthrough art, performing arts, films, jewelry making.
bringing back the traditional ways of throat singing and drum dancing, all of these thingsthat build back the spirit of people, not just our people, but through all of that, we are
(57:36):
teaching the world just how wonderful our culture is and how giving it is and howgrounding it is.
And so for me, you know, it's really about that medicine that we seek is the medicine theworld seeks in terms of attaining sustainability.
and we should be seen not as victims to globalization, but as teachers of sustainabilityand all of these issues that are lacking in the world today.
(58:02):
Well, thank you for your human story.
It's a good one and one that we all can learn from.
Visit climatsolutions.ca to learn more about how Pacific Institute for Climate Solutionsis supporting climate action.
This podcast was made with respect, gratitude, and a radical act of hope by EverythingPodcast and the Pacific Institute for Climate Solutions.
(58:30):
PICS would like to thank the Gordon Foundation and the University of Victoria for theirsupport of Siila's Indigenous Climate Fellowship and this podcast.
Our hosts are Siila Watt-Cloutier,
Janna Wale and Ian Mauro.
Our executive producers, Jennifer Smith.
Editor in chief, Dawn Schafer.
Showrunner, Jessica Grajczyk.
Our writers, Eva Grant.
(58:51):
Sound design by Scott Whitaker.
Production support by Cindy McDougall.
Thanks for listening.
This podcast was produced on the lands of the Lekwungen-speaking and WSANEC peoples.
Our guests come from Indigenous lands across this country known as Canada and the world.
Wherever you may be listening from, we thank you for joining us on this storytellingjourney.
(59:13):
Another Everything Podcast production.
Visit everythingpodcast.com, a division of Pattison Media.
Subscribe wherever you get your podcast.
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