April 27, 2025 • 54 mins
When flags flew at half-staff across Texas following Pope Benedict XVI's passing, it offered a striking reminder that faith rituals transcend religious boundaries to touch something universally human. What makes us pause collectively to honor life's pivotal transitions?
Our multi-faith panel explores the ceremonial markers that guide us through existence's most profound moments. From Catholic sacraments like baptism and confirmation to Jewish rituals like bar mitzvah and shiva, these traditions create sacred space within ordinary time. We unpack how these practices distribute emotional burdens across communities while connecting us to something eternal.
The conversation reveals surprising parallels between seemingly different faiths. Catholics recognize seven as the "age of reason" when children become spiritually accountable. Baptists speak of an "age of accountability" around twelve or thirteen when young people make conscious faith decisions. Jews celebrate bar/bat mitzvah at thirteen when children become responsible for their own religious obligations. Though the explanations differ, the human recognition of childhood's end remains consistent.
Father Mario shares how Catholic life follows liturgical rhythms marked by changing altar colors and seasonal observances. Rabbi Stuart explains how shiva gatherings distribute grief among community members, with each person symbolically taking on a portion of the mourner's burden. David describes how even non-liturgical Protestant churches maintain meaningful traditions through scripture readings and hymns at key life moments.
What emerges is a deeper understanding of ritual's profound purpose: to help us navigate change, distribute emotional weight, and find meaning in transition. As one panelist beautifully expressed, "That which is true at all times and in all places must be recognized and celebrated at a specific time and a specific place." How might your own life transitions benefit from meaningful ritual? Join our exploration of the ceremonies that help us make sense of our brief, beautiful journey through time.
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
There's something happening here, what it is ain't
exactly clear.
There's a man with a gun overthere Telling me I've got to
beware.
I think it's time we stop.
Children, what's that sound?
(00:53):
Everybody, look what's goingdown.
Welcome to A Show of Faithbehind every time we stop.
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody, look what's goingdown.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Welcome to A Show of Faith where a professor, priest,
millennial and rabbi discusstheology, philosophy, morality,
ethics and anything else ofinterest in religion.
If you have any response to ourtopics or any comments
regarding what we say, we wouldlove to hear from you.
Email us at ashowoffaith1070 atgmailcom.
(01:27):
That's ashowoffaith1070 atgmailcom.
You can hear our shows againand again by listening pretty
much anywhere.
Podcasts are heard.
Our professor, david Capes, isour Baptist minister.
Director of academicprogramming for the Lanier
Theological Library.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Hey, it's great to be with you, Rabbi.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Hello, hello.
Our priest is Father MarioArroyo, retired pastor of St
Cyril of Alexandria, the 10,000block of Westheimer.
Good to be with you.
Rudy Kong is our millennial.
He's a systems engineer,master's degree in theology from
the University of St Thomas.
Howdy howdy.
I am Rabbi Stuart Federo,retired rabbi of Congregation
(02:04):
Shahr Shalom in the Clear Lakearea of Houston, texas.
Miranda is our board operatorand together Miranda helps us
sound fantastic.
And also Valerie's here too.
Valerie's here, yes.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
So welcome to A Show of Faith.
Indeed, indeed, it's good tosee you guys.
Good to see you.
First of all, I think I want toexpress my condolences to our
Catholic friends in the passingof Pope Francis earlier this
week, absolutely, and thefuneral and all that entails.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Were you able to see any of the funeral, David?
Speaker 3 (02:43):
A little bit of it.
Yeah, a little bit of it.
It's an amazing ceremony, isn'tit?
Speaker 4 (02:49):
Yeah, I was just thinking that that kind of
ceremony just you don't see itvery much these days.
You can see a little bit of itin maybe the funeral of a
president, but man, it waspretty much close to like the
funeral of the queen.
Yeah, yeah.
(03:09):
It's full of tradition andpageantry.
I was watching a video thatgave the history of the funerals
of popes back a couple ofcenturies and it's interesting
it changes.
It's not something that hasbeen exactly the same all the
(03:31):
time, so they're updating itbecause there's no specific way
that it has to be done, but theytry to keep tradition.
But I think they did a verynice job of it.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Yeah, yeah, and what a setting that is.
I mean, when you think aboutthe significance of St Peter's
Basilica and you think aboutthat city and it's the history
that's there, the architecture,it's just stunning, it's
absolutely stunning.
Yeah, but I guess, in terms ofwhat's next, Mario and Rudy, I'm
(04:07):
just curious what should welook for happening next?
I know the Cardinals are goingto gather.
They've already gathered, I'msure.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
Yeah, they're already there.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
They're already there and I know there's sessions and
times of prayer and worship andthose kind of things.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
So any idea what to talk about yeah.
Well, let me ask Rudy Rudy,you're kind of a little more
fact-based than I am.
I tend to be.
My mind floats in the clouds.
Do you have any sense of?
I know there's a certain amountof days within which they have
to begin the conclave.
So as soon as the—there'ssomething that happens initially
(04:52):
, which is by what's called theChamberlain, which is an
official verification of death,and once this happens, certain
traditional things, they breakthe papal seal, they remove some
rings and then the's a periodof nine days essentially where
(05:14):
the church, the, the main papalsort of uh offices and and and
those kinds of, because thechurch doesn't really stop but
(05:35):
the, the, the papacy itself has,has particular offices and
things that that in operation,that are in operation, so that
all kind of stops stops untilthe new pope is elected.
But initially there'sessentially a period of mourning
that goes on Normally in StPeter's Basilica, so
(05:55):
particularly Francis' pedagogy.
Right, he was kind of known tobe not so much this pope that
was into, you know, all the howdo I say all the pomp that comes
sort of with the office.
It's very traditional, but hejust wasn't really about that.
(06:16):
He didn't wear a lot of thevestments.
He didn't like people kissingyou know the hand or the ring.
He stayed in a.
I don't know if you guys saw aroom of where he stayed, but his
room was very austere Verymodest, very modest.
Very modest, and so after that,then, the official process
(06:39):
starts, the conclave processwhere the coronal process.
That should begin in the nextwhat week or two?
It seemed to be.
Yeah, so after nine days hepassed away on Monday, so it
should be Wednesday or Thursday.
That that is like kind ofofficially starts and there's
(07:01):
masses and then there'sparticular readings that go on,
but pretty much, um, thecardinals, they're just kind of
locked in these, in these, uh inin in a particular place, um,
in rome, in the vatican.
They have absolutely no contactwith the world.
Uh, they're given meals, theyperform prayers and then,
(07:26):
essentially, a voting processbegins.
There's a lot of deliberationwhere, you know, for any of you
who have seen the movie theConclave, the Cardinals that
have spoken about that said it'sso far off from what really
happens, even though it was verywell acted.
(07:47):
I have not seen it, but it wasvery well acted.
It's interesting because theVatican now makes sure that not
only are the cardinals lockedaway, but they can't have any
kind of communication with theoutside world.
There's no cell phones, there'sno way for cell phones to get
(08:10):
out.
They have, I don't know the,the technology, but there's all
kinds of blocking things from,from people getting in, from
drones being able to listen.
Uh, they, because they reallywhen the word conclave conclave
means with a lock, clave meanslock, and so conclave means
(08:37):
locked in.
And not only are theyphysically locked in, they are
psychologically andelectronically locked in,
because the Vatican does notwant any outside influences to
influence the work of thecardinals.
(08:58):
And so it's very, veryinteresting, and so we will wait
.
We'll see either black smoke,where the black smoke just means
no pope yet, and the whitesmoke means yes, we have a pope,
but then the first day there'sone ballot, and then the next
(09:22):
three days there's two ballots aday until they get a.
What is it, rudy?
Is it a two-thirds majority?
It's two-thirds majority.
And then they get up to thepoint where they can have up to
four ballots a day, two in themorning and two in the afternoon
.
But, they need at leasttwo-thirds majority for the
(09:45):
official election.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
It's an amazing moment.
I've seen a number of thesethrough my life and have watched
with a lot of interest becauseof the significance of the
Pope's office, the significanceof the person very often on the
stage of world affairs in termsof influencing the world and I
(10:13):
noticed everywhere.
Flags are at half staff rightnow, everywhere you go.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
You know, I was going to ask you guys about that.
Wherever I've been drivingaround Houston, flags are at
half-staff.
Is that for the Pope or someoneelse?
Speaker 3 (10:31):
I think it's for the Pope.
Yeah, For the while.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
People forget that the Pope is a head of state.
It's no different than Godforbid, but it's no different
than I don't know Prime Ministerof England or somebody like
that Diner or Queen.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
But we don't have half staff.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Oh, I think sometimes we actually do.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
For heads of state of other states.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (10:59):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
I don't think, I don't know that we do.
I thought we've done that Interms of that.
But I think the Pope is of atranscendent nature, right?
I mean, I think his chair, hisplace, is a greater place,
(11:20):
honestly, than you would findwith any other king of one
country, Because when you thinkabout a billion or more
Catholics around the world andhe's the head and Catholics are
everywhere, right, I agree.
So I think there's throughoutthe world.
So I just think that that isfor the Pope.
(11:41):
I don't have any otherknowledge about that, but it
just made perfect sense when Ibegan seeing it immediately.
Stuart's going to look it uphere in just a minute and find
out for sure.
But I can't imagine any otherfigure garnering that kind of
world attention, honestly, evenanother head state.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
You know what I thought of even another, you
know what I thought of Dr Penceis there was a lot of also heads
of state that went left, right,everybody, and there's not too
many figures of course, andFather Mario said the Queen of
England, I can't think of toomany figures in today's day and
(12:26):
age that could kind of bring allthese people together.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
In a sort of yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
I think it's just a remarkable testimony to the
ongoing significance of faith,religion, morality, the whole
connection.
We may live in a secular state,in a secular time, but I think
that there's something biggerthat pulls us all together at a
(12:59):
time like this, and it seemslike well, you just looked it up
to make sure.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
No, it did say for the Pope, and there was a
specific letter from thegovernor of Texas that he was
lowering the flags to half-staffbecause of the Pope, because of
the Pope, yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:17):
Oh, good okay.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
By the way, I just want to add oh go ahead Reverend
.
No, go ahead, say it again.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
I was just going to say you've got to remember.
I want to add almost a fifth ofthe United States is Catholic
right, so I mean it represents apretty large demographic.
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Like David said, it's every country in the world
pretty much is going to have aCatholic community.
Yeah, large Catholic.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
Right Asia Africa Catholic community.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Right.
Most of it Asia, africa.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Europe.
I mean there are countrieswhere we don't know because
there's not that kind ofinformation available, Right,
but throughout most of the worldyou're going to find you
Catholics are everywhere.
I'm telling you they're takingover the world.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
I just want to remind people that the newest movie,
conclave, isn't the only movieGoing back to the Shoes of the
Fisherman.
I remember seeing that when Iwas a kid and being very
impressed by it.
But there are other movies thattalk about the death and
election of a pope.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
And this one, the most recent one, I don't know.
It had a lot of problems to it.
I think it has a lot ofquestions about it.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
I think has a lot, a lot of questions about anthony
quinn the shoes of the fisherman.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Yeah, that's the one I remember, yeah, anthony quinn,
great actor.
Hey, tonight we're gonna, we'regonna.
I know we gotta go to a breakhere in a second, but tonight
we're going to be talking aboutit, ironically, maybe not
ironically, maybe providentially.
Uh, life cycle events, andwe're gonna, and and and.
One of the chief life cycleevents in all of our faiths are
(14:49):
funerals, deaths, burials,mourning and the significance of
what that means for not onlythe person who's died but also
for those that live behind.
You're listening to a show offaith here on AM1070, the Answer
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AM1070 and FM1033, the Answer.
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Supporting the Second.
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Speaker 2 (17:29):
Welcome back to A.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Show of Faith on Intensively.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Answered.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Hey, there is a season indeed.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
I'll be born at a time to die.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
There is.
You know, many years ago, youand I taught a course at Houston
Baptist University.
Great days Called Introductionto Judaism.
Yep, at Houston BaptistUniversity, great days Called
Introduction to Judaism, and oneof the phrases that stuck with
me, that I had not grown up with, that I didn't have any
theological training in regardto, is life cycle events, and so
(17:57):
what I thought we would dotonight is talk a little bit
about life cycle events andtheir meaning, their
significance, the significanceof ritual when it comes to doing
these kind of things, becauseall of us have them All of our
faiths do.
Now I think that the the moreliturgical churches have, more
very often than those thataren't liturgical.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
But in Judaism— and by liturgical you mean—.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Well, there's a particular way that worship is
conducted.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Set collection of prayers, set things to do.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Right set things to do on particular days and such
as opposed to more of a freechurch, the free church
tradition.
So where did that phrase comefrom, stuart?
Let's start with that.
Life cycle events.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Well, life is a cycle .
We are born and we die.
That right there, covers twolife cycle events.
And then usually there is somerecognition or acknowledgement
of the child growing up at twoother places, which are puberty
(19:05):
and marriage.
So these are the major changesin a person's life.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
So birth, birth there's certain rituals around
birth, right and Father Mario, Iwant to kick this to you and
Rudy both in a minute to thinkabout these kind of four moments
that we're talking about Right.
So birth and coming into thisworld.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Birth, coming into this world, and then moving from
child to to adulthood.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
Puberty is usually 12 , 13, somewhere in that age
group, so that's a key moment.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Or confirmation at 16 .
It's still the same basic idea.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
And then marriage, very often Marriage.
Not everybody gets married, buta lot of people do.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
But it is a life cycle event, because the event
of marriage is a major change ina person's life.
Yeah, and then, of course,death.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
Yeah, right, right Now.
What about?
I mean?
What about things like thebirth of children?
What about?
Speaker 2 (20:06):
finishing college, what about?
I mean those kind of things.
The baby doesn't know it's gota celebration of having been
born.
Okay, the baby doesn't know,it's got a celebration of having
been born.
So I think that all rituals fora birth is kind of mainly for
the parents Okay, to acknowledgefor them the change in their
(20:27):
lives of having a child.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
But it's also to welcome as well Father Mario.
We've talked about four momentsin life.
We've talked about birth, We'vetalked about coming of age, we
talked about marriage, or wementioned marriage here and we
talked about death.
Are there Catholic rituals kindof focused in upon?
Speaker 4 (20:48):
those.
Well, for a Catholic, you'vegot to remember here that you
have to talk about practicingCatholic, and those are what I
call Catholic in name only.
You know there's people thatyou say, well, what religion are
you?
And they say, well, I'mbaptized Catholic, but they've
(21:13):
marked their lives in no waywith any Catholic ritual or
Catholic meaning, and so we haveto put that aside.
Yeah, for a Catholic youngperson growing up, the cycle
would be their first communion.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
What age, would that be?
Speaker 4 (21:34):
Around seven years old.
The Catholic Church considersseven years old to be the age of
reason.
You're stopped being, forexample, if you are less than
seven years old, you can bebaptized by the authority of the
faith of your parents, and yourparents promise to bring you up
(21:58):
as Catholic.
But the moment you hit sevenyears old, that ends, and from
then on you have to go through aperiod of formation to
understand what you're doing interms of baptism.
That's a major change in ayoung person's life.
And then the next part would bewhen they get to be 13, 14, 15,
(22:20):
which they do confirmation, andthat's another very strong life
cycle event.
And, of course, from there yougo into marriage.
But I was thinking, you know,for me I did not go into
marriage.
You know, my own life cycle wasbaptism, confirmation and then
(22:42):
ordination, which occurred whenI was 27 years old.
So those orders become very theholy orders, right, that become
sort of the guiding thing ofyour life.
Oh, my god, let me tell youwhen I was ordained to the
(23:02):
priesthood, oh, you talk aboutmy life changing.
You know, it's funny because II love to say it this way in the
catholic church, when thesacrament that makes a priest A
priest is called holy orders,okay, just take away the
adjectives and you get the wordorders.
(23:23):
Okay, so for a CatholicChristian to receive holy orders
.
You know, it's funny because Iand I say this very, very
proudly in a good way Whenever Isee Jesus who I'm looking at
right now on the cross, I see mycommanding officer, I see the
(23:49):
person who gives me orders.
Who gives me orders.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
And my life is a response to the orders that I
get from him through variouschannels.
Interesting, interesting.
I know we've got to go to breakhere in just a minute, but when
we do I'm going to come back.
Rudy, I want to hear about youbecause you're the most recently
married of our group and I wantto hear about that a little bit
as a life cycle events.
Father Mario had baptismconfirmation, then holy orders,
(24:30):
and you've had a similarexperience, at least at first,
but not necessarily the orders.
I don't know.
Does your wife order you around?
Speaker 4 (24:40):
Is that safe?
Is that safe Okay?
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Okay, all right, stuart, all right this is a show
of faith.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
My commanding officer .
Speaker 2 (24:49):
This is a show of faith and we will be right back.
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Oh yes, wait a minute, mrBoatman.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
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Welcome back to A Show of Faithon AM 1070.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
All right, we're talking about life cycle events
tonight, the kind of things thatwe sort of just go through in
life, and the importance ofthose rituals and what they mean
and the significance that wetake from them in our lives.
And such Rudy, most recentlymarried among us.
What a fool believes.
(27:42):
Oh sorry, no, no, no, no Watchout.
Watch out Stuart what.
I didn't see anything His wifeis seated right next to him.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
I was just randomly singing a song.
No, you weren't.
No, you weren't.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
Rudy baptism right.
First thing, and thenconfirmation.
Speaker 4 (28:02):
Yeah, yeah, I was.
I don't know how to say this.
I was very fortunate because Iwas sort of born into a family
that was practicing Catholics atleast my mother was.
(28:48):
And she took this quiteseriously and I think it's just.
It makes an enormous differencewhen you have a parent, you
know, and to all, I guess,christians, I mean my First
Communion, just normal stuff.
Normally confirmation is donearound kind of early teens, sort
of 12 to kind of 16-year-old,that's sort of how it's done,
(29:10):
although people can do it at alltimes, right, I mean when you
convert or when you can kind ofpostpone it.
I've known people who have doneit later and then, yeah, from
there, once you're confirmed,you're just kind of coasting, I
guess, until the next life cycleevent, if you will.
So for me, of course, that wasmarriage, and marriage is, of
(29:34):
course, a covenant, right, it'swhat we consider something that
is indissoluble.
Right, it's a bond, it'ssomething that is done in the
presence of God and only Godalone can sort of undo it right,
(29:56):
by either death or till death.
Do us part, right, and that isit.
Right then, right, exactly.
So my life is, if you will,mine exclusively anymore,
everything I do.
I think about her as well, andit's hard because we and I'm
(30:22):
speaking for me too right, Imean, I tended to be sort of a
bit selfish, right, I went whereI went to.
I traveled where I wanted to.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
I always wanted to talk to you about that.
I just felt this yeah, that wasa problem for you.
Yeah, you were just veryselfish, just kidding, just
kidding.
But you're right, when thischange comes, it puts everything
into a different perspective, adifferent world altogether.
Speaker 4 (30:51):
Yeah, and you really have to make things, and so am I
.
I mean, I know, of course youdidn't take the sacrament of
Matthew, but to a large degree Ithink it kind of applies too.
It's like your life isn't sortof yours right.
I mean you're kind of turningit over to Jesus, you're turning
it over to the sacrament.
I mean, it's not about justwhat I want to do.
(31:13):
I mean, of course it's like,yes, I want to work and I want
to, you know, be successful, andI want to have kids and I want
to do these things.
But so largely, it's okay.
How can I love this personcorrectly?
How can I be the father and thefamily man that I need to be an
example of a community that Ineed to be?
It's not just I don't know, itjust kind of gets you really
(31:35):
thinking outside yourself, which, frankly, is more probably what
we need in today's day and agethan ever.
It's just kind of not thinkingso selfishly.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
One of the things that kind of keeps coming up in
the conversation is this idea ofritual and that these things
that we do are ritual-like.
Stuart, let me start with you.
Why is ritual so important?
Speaker 2 (32:04):
I think there's a whole lot of psychological
benefit that comes from rituals,and it doesn't matter if it's
religious ritual or even what wemight term secular ritual.
Like I always use the exampleand you've heard me say it a
million times how would you liketo go to an Astros game and not
begin the game with theStar-Spangled Banner?
You'd feel like something wasweird, like something was
(32:26):
missing.
I mean, it sets the tone.
It's like you know we're allsinging this song about the
United States together.
It doesn't matter we're onopposing teams, but it's the
country's pastime, as they say,and you know we're still in this
together, kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
Yeah, father Mario doesn't know what baseball is.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Oh, I forgot.
We forgot.
We should explain that to himsomeday.
Yeah, exactly, but we weretalking about in the break that
even the secular world hasrituals for even something like
birth, like a baby shower.
You know there are.
We have a need for ritualsbecause the ritual reminds us.
(33:10):
You know what's the line.
So teach us to number our daysthat we may get us a heart of
wisdom.
So teach us to number our daysthat we may get us a heart of
wisdom.
So by numbering, by havingthese rituals, it helps us count
and realize the passage of time.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
But you know, Stuart, let me just start it in here.
There's a sentence that I'vealways liked, and it goes like
this that which is true at alltimes and in all places must be
recognized and celebrated at aspecific time and a specific
place.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
And that's what ritual does for us.
That's what it does.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
Absolutely so you're taking what is true and taking
something that is, in a way,eternal, true for all time,
right, and you're taking but itto be acknowledged acknowledged
in a certain place at a certaintime right yeah yeah, well, a
(34:03):
part of what I think a ritualdoes too is it brings people
together, you know, in acommunity kind of to, to help
you understand that you're notgoing to raise that baby on your
own, exactly.
I mean, yeah, there'll,there'll be nights where you're
doing it alone.
You feel very much alone, butraising a child is very much a
(34:24):
group effort, right, and thepeople that come together as a
part of that.
And the same thing is true in achild's baptism.
I don't know if it's the samething, stuart.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
I don't know if it's the same thing, stuart where the
community comes together to saywe pledge to be a part of this
child's life in a Jewish lifeand to train them in ways of
Judaism.
And I would argue that that'sthe real reason why we attend a
wedding is to say to the personperson getting married in the
same way that we are here foryou now, for this, we will be
with you in times of trouble.
I think that the it's not justto celebrate the love between
the two and the, and the weddingand the vows and the marriage
(35:09):
and all that.
It's also to say to the couplewe are here with you now, we
will be with you later, and Ithink that it's.
It's like a funeral god forbidis.
We are still here for eachother.
The deceased is gone, but wecan share in the memory, we can
share in the grief.
You know, aiding somebody togrieve takes away some of their
(35:32):
grief not all of it, but some ofit.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
Yeah, I remember when Lisa passed away.
Yep, this was back around 2001.
2001.
Mm-hmm and I came and we had aceremony at your house, right?
Speaker 6 (35:49):
And it's Shiva service.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
Right, which is a particular kind of mourning,
mm-hmm.
And one of the fellows theresaid to me we look at grief like
poison, that if you put toomuch poison in any one person
it's too much for them.
They, they, they die.
But we come and take a littlebit of all the poison ourselves.
(36:12):
Uh, each person who comes tosing, to pray, to bring food, to
be a part of the ceremony istaking on a little bit of that
poison in themselves, that partof that grief, so that you, in
that particular case, would notbe overwhelmed with the grief
that was there Right, absolutely.
(36:34):
Yeah, that's a great way of, Ithink, thinking about that and
understanding it.
Speaker 4 (36:41):
You know I'd like to add something.
We're talking about major, I'mgoing to say overarching time
time, but there is in Catholiclife, there is a ritual moment
which organizes for a Catholicyour week, and that's the
(37:04):
celebration of the Eucharist onSunday.
You know, because that is, I cantell you that my life, not just
because I'm a priest butbecause I'm a Christian, my life
revolves around remembering thedeath and resurrection of the
Lord every single week, and sothe week has very much a
(37:40):
structure to it and for theCatholic Church, what is called
the liturgical year, whichbegins with the four weeks
before Christmas and then theChristmas season, the Advent
season is four weeks beforeChristmas, and then the
Christmas season, and then wehave what's called ordinary time
, and then begins Lent, which isthe five, six weeks before
Easter, and then we have theEaster time, which we are right
now, and then we go intoOrdinary Time, and so that's
(38:03):
marked by different colors.
Like, if you walk into aCatholic church during Advent or
Lent, you're going to seeeverything in purple, which is a
color of intense reflection,and if you go in during
Christmas or Easter time you'llsee white, but when you go into
ordinary time you'll see thewhole church done in green,
(38:26):
which is the color of nature.
So it sets up for us a veryrecognizable pattern of a ritual
way of going through the yearand marking the seasons that the
Church says.
It's not just the seasons ofthe year but in terms of the
(38:48):
seasonality of the Christian,Because, remember, for the
Catholic Church our year doesnot begin on January.
Our year begins four weeks,four Sundays, specifically
before the Feast of Christmas,and that's what's called the new
liturgical year, which we begin.
(39:09):
So it's an entire cycle, orthat is another life cycle event
that most Catholics whopractice your faith are involved
in.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
Yeah, is there anything like that Stuart in
Judaism, where you I mean, Iknow you have services, but do
you see that?
Or is that regarded as lifecycle?
Speaker 2 (39:37):
think of, in terms of changing colors and that kind
of thing would be for the HighHoly Days, the mantles, the
coverings on the Torah scrolls.
They usually change to a whitecolor.
Oh, okay.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
That's it, but still these weeks of gathering
together with the community toread Torah and to hear a sermon.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Weekly services, daily services, those are part
of formation right, right,absolutely.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
I mean it'd be hard hear from you in terms of what
is high church and low church,in terms of the Protestant
tradition.
How is practice there?
Speaker 3 (40:20):
Well, protestants are all over the place.
It's all over the place andhonestly, I want to finish up
thinking about the passing ofthe Pope again, and and and the
morning rituals that that takeplace with that.
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And together we will see how lovely heaven will be
Welcome back to A Show of Faithon AM 1070,.
Speaker 3 (44:17):
The Answer hey, and that's our ritual tonight, on a
Sunday night, it is Right, Imean Miranda plays that song and
we know that that is for FatherMario Yep.
Speaker 4 (44:28):
Thank you, thank you, thank you yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
And we have certain phrases that are part of our
ritual.
Yeah, you know you'll keep usin your prayers.
You will certainly be in ours.
Speaker 7 (44:38):
Right.
Speaker 2 (44:38):
So life has a whole lot of ritual to it, and I think
it's because it gives us asense of belonging.
We know what's expected of us,you know we follow through, and
I think that that's anotherelement of rituals, the
importance of rituals in ourlives you were talking one time
about, about ritual and and kidschildren about children about.
Speaker 3 (45:02):
You know when you sing a song and they'll say do
it again, do it again right youknow, because even though maybe
you've done that or you've readthat thousand three thousand
times.
Now they want you to do itagain.
Right, Because there'ssomething comforting about it.
They know what to expect.
Exactly, and so all thesethings are important.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
The first word they learn may be mommy.
The second word they learn maybe daddy, but the third word is
going to be again, again.
Speaker 3 (45:29):
That's probably true.
Yeah, thanks for, yeah, theprotestant tradition is all over
the place on this because, uh,you, you've got protestant
churches like the anglicanchurch that uh follows very much
a liturgical way and liturgicalyear.
They may, they work very much.
(45:53):
If you were to go into aCatholic church or an Anglican
church, a lot of times you don'tknow the difference, you can't
tell the difference.
In some Lutheran churches.
Yeah, exactly.
So you do have Protestantchurches like that that are high
church, that are liturgical andthat they follow set prayers
(46:15):
and calendar and those kind ofthings and that the life cycle
events though that term may beunknown there, they still have
those particular.
They have baptism andconfirmation and they follow
very much the same kind ofcalendar, as it were.
It's interesting to me and Idon't know that I knew this
(46:38):
until you said it earlier,father Mario that the age of
reason begins at the age ofseven, which I thought was
interesting.
That was new to me.
I didn't know that in theCatholic Church, baptists have
historically followed this ideaof an age of accountability, and
(47:00):
this is a phrase that you willoften hear among Baptist
churches.
Baptists have a thing calledbeliever's baptism, have a thing
called believer's baptism, thatis, that you must express
personal faith in Jesus Christas your Lord and Savior before
you seek baptism.
So they don't typically Baptistchurches don't baptize babies.
(47:24):
Let me just say that.
They don't baptize children.
So it's not until a person hasmade actually a personal
confession and profession offaith that they are baptized.
So that could be.
You know you're going to haverituals in a sense, but they're
nothing set rituals about thebirth of a child.
In some churches that I've beento, the first time a child
(47:48):
comes to church after being born.
There's very often something ona small scale done.
It's not done necessarily infront of the whole church.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
But would members of a Baptist church still have a
baby shower?
Would they still have?
Speaker 3 (48:02):
Oh yeah, absolutely All those kind of things Right,
but those wouldn't be consideredagain.
Religious no, no yeah yeah, butthere's the recognition of that.
But baptism itself there's nosuch thing as confirmation in
baptism, because it's the ideathat you have confirmed your
faith through its profession andthrough submitting to baptism.
I was baptized at the age ofseven, but there have been
(48:24):
people baptized in their 20s and30s and 40s and 50s.
It could be at any time in aperson's life after they've made
a profession of faith.
We do have marriage as a veryimportant piece of our lives.
There's nothing reallynecessarily marking a coming of
(48:47):
age, except the idea of the ageof accountability, that a person
is now considered to beaccountable before God if they
were to pass away, to die andnot to have made a profession of
faith.
Is that a specific age though?
(49:08):
Well, it's described as the ageof accountability.
It's 12, 13 years old, veryoften described but there's
nothing really that's firm inthe tradition about it.
It's sort of just from churchto church, and this is another
distinctive of Baptist churches,that Baptist churches typically
(49:30):
are not connected in the sameway as liturgical churches.
The Baptist churches typicallyare not connected in the same
way as liturgical churches, witha bishop and that kind of thing
, In other words every church isautonomous.
Every church is independent.
Every church makes its own sortof decisions.
You want to be connected andyou want to cooperate, but you
(49:51):
want to cooperate and you wantto associate, but you don't
necessarily look to them to helpyou confirm people who are new
believers, that kind of thing.
So marriage obviously is veryimportant.
It's not considered a sacrament.
In the same way, it'sconsidered a very important time
(50:12):
before God and before witnesses, and very much of our
traditions and words often usedin marriage ceremonies are
derived from Anglican and maybeeven Catholic services as well.
Obviously, funerals become veryimportant, right, right.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
And they're usually the same the end of life, same
collection of psalms, samecollection of.
They're usually the same theend of life, same collection of
psalms, same collection ofprayers, same collection of
things for all of our faith.
Speaker 3 (50:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:36):
You know you're going to hear the 23rd Psalm.
Speaker 3 (50:38):
You're going to hear that, you're going to hear that
and you might hear other thingsthat are familiar from the
Hebrew Scriptures as well inthat particular time.
But there are also then NewTestament readings and there are
certain hymns, like how GreatThou Art.
I remember my cousin who passedaway.
She was in her 50s recently,last fall, and you know that's
(51:03):
one of the songs that's kind ofa stalwart song, a song of
Baptists, particularly ruralBaptist, now more so than
anything, churches when there'sa funeral.
How Great Thou Art, it's agreat hymn, a great hymn of the
faith.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
And so it's I would think that Amazing Grace would
be up there.
Yeah, Amazing.
Speaker 3 (51:23):
Grace is often up there, yeah, as well.
So there's a lot of there'ssome overlap, but you find a lot
of there's a lot there's someoverlap, but but you, you find a
lot of catholic sorry, a lot ofprotestant churches that
operate similarly to what wemight find in catholic churches,
um, particularly some anglicanand lutheran churches and
churches like that, david?
Speaker 2 (51:44):
wouldn't the same thing be true for, like a
wedding service, you You'regoing to hear most likely you're
going to hear love is You'regoing to have to help me, david
1 Corinthians 13.
You're going to hear the lovechapter very often, so there is
a ritual for it.
Speaker 3 (52:03):
There's a ritual.
There's no doubt about it.
There's a ritual, but it's notconsidered a mass.
There's not necessarily theLord's table there and such, and
I know we've got to go A coupleminutes.
So, gosh, my time is All right,so here's my final question.
(52:25):
Final question, all right.
I have a good friend, a Jewishfriend.
His name is Moshe Dayan.
Okay, moshe.
Dayan, I've heard it Jewishfriend, his name is.
Speaker 2 (52:32):
Moshe.
Dayan Okay.
Speaker 3 (52:33):
Okay, moshe Dayan, I've heard of him and he has a
son named Danny Dayan.
Okay, and so Danny Dayan isgoing to be bar mitzvahed what?
Speaker 2 (52:41):
do I get him for his bar mitzvah?
Anything that you would get forany other child coming of age.
What do they like?
A CD of a music they like, okay, you know, just those.
Speaker 3 (52:51):
Any kind of any kind of thing absolutely doesn't have
to be Jewish in terms, I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (52:56):
I'm sure the child would much more appreciate you
know rock and roll CD than theywould a but what they probably
say.
What is the CD?
Oh, I'm sorry, I'm showing myage.
You are Please do not get him aTV See.
For weddings we make it easy.
We have the list at the storeor whatever, whatever they call
(53:18):
that.
Speaker 3 (53:19):
But for bar mitzvahs and births and everything else
you've got to, I know I meanbecause we're all going to know
somebody's being confirmed beingbaptized Right At some point,
or being bar mitzvahed or aJewish wedding whatever.
What do?
Speaker 2 (53:34):
we give, what kind of present?
It's?
How do you give a gift?
You give a gift according towhat the recipient would like
the most, not what you want themto have, but what they want to
have.
Okay, that's how you give anygift.
It's the same kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (53:47):
All right, father Mario gave me some good advice
earlier this week on a con, a, afirst communion.
Speaker 2 (53:54):
uh service what was it huh?
On what to give, on what togive which was.
Speaker 3 (54:00):
Well, she may be listening, so I better not say
okay too early.
You don't it's supposed to be asurprise.
Yeah, yeah, it hasn't arrivedfrom Amazon yet.
We're hoping it'll arrive in aday or so, but anyway, I know
our time is.
Thanks, father Mario.
Speaker 4 (54:19):
Get to feeling better thank you very much, I will
complete and speedy recoveryspeedy recovery and, rudy, greet
your fair bride for us.
Speaker 3 (54:36):
She has a lot of work cut out for her.
Speaker 2 (54:38):
All right, this is a show of faith.
On AM 1070, the Answer Keep usin your prayers because you will
be in ours.
Speaker 8 (54:45):
Find us at am1070theanswercom.
Download our apps.
Stream us 24-7.
Knth and K277DE-FM.
There's something happening here, what it is ain't
exactly clear.
There's a man with a gun overthere Telling me I've got to
beware.
I think it's time we stop.
Children, what's that sound?
(00:53):
Everybody, look what's goingdown.
Welcome to A Show of Faithbehind every time we stop.
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody, look what's goingdown.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Welcome to A Show of Faith where a professor, priest,
millennial and rabbi discusstheology, philosophy, morality,
ethics and anything else ofinterest in religion.
If you have any response to ourtopics or any comments
regarding what we say, we wouldlove to hear from you.
Email us at ashowoffaith1070 atgmailcom.
(01:27):
That's ashowoffaith1070 atgmailcom.
You can hear our shows againand again by listening pretty
much anywhere.
Podcasts are heard.
Our professor, david Capes, isour Baptist minister.
Director of academicprogramming for the Lanier
Theological Library.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Hey, it's great to be with you, Rabbi.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Hello, hello.
Our priest is Father MarioArroyo, retired pastor of St
Cyril of Alexandria, the 10,000block of Westheimer.
Good to be with you.
Rudy Kong is our millennial.
He's a systems engineer,master's degree in theology from
the University of St Thomas.
Howdy howdy.
I am Rabbi Stuart Federo,retired rabbi of Congregation
(02:04):
Shahr Shalom in the Clear Lakearea of Houston, texas.
Miranda is our board operatorand together Miranda helps us
sound fantastic.
And also Valerie's here too.
Valerie's here, yes.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
So welcome to A Show of Faith.
Indeed, indeed, it's good tosee you guys.
Good to see you.
First of all, I think I want toexpress my condolences to our
Catholic friends in the passingof Pope Francis earlier this
week, absolutely, and thefuneral and all that entails.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Were you able to see any of the funeral, David?
Speaker 3 (02:43):
A little bit of it.
Yeah, a little bit of it.
It's an amazing ceremony, isn'tit?
Speaker 4 (02:49):
Yeah, I was just thinking that that kind of
ceremony just you don't see itvery much these days.
You can see a little bit of itin maybe the funeral of a
president, but man, it waspretty much close to like the
funeral of the queen.
Yeah, yeah.
(03:09):
It's full of tradition andpageantry.
I was watching a video thatgave the history of the funerals
of popes back a couple ofcenturies and it's interesting
it changes.
It's not something that hasbeen exactly the same all the
(03:31):
time, so they're updating itbecause there's no specific way
that it has to be done, but theytry to keep tradition.
But I think they did a verynice job of it.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Yeah, yeah, and what a setting that is.
I mean, when you think aboutthe significance of St Peter's
Basilica and you think aboutthat city and it's the history
that's there, the architecture,it's just stunning, it's
absolutely stunning.
Yeah, but I guess, in terms ofwhat's next, Mario and Rudy, I'm
(04:07):
just curious what should welook for happening next?
I know the Cardinals are goingto gather.
They've already gathered, I'msure.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
Yeah, they're already there.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
They're already there and I know there's sessions and
times of prayer and worship andthose kind of things.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
So any idea what to talk about yeah.
Well, let me ask Rudy Rudy,you're kind of a little more
fact-based than I am.
I tend to be.
My mind floats in the clouds.
Do you have any sense of?
I know there's a certain amountof days within which they have
to begin the conclave.
So as soon as the—there'ssomething that happens initially
(04:52):
, which is by what's called theChamberlain, which is an
official verification of death,and once this happens, certain
traditional things, they breakthe papal seal, they remove some
rings and then the's a periodof nine days essentially where
(05:14):
the church, the, the main papalsort of uh offices and and and
those kinds of, because thechurch doesn't really stop but
(05:35):
the, the, the papacy itself has,has particular offices and
things that that in operation,that are in operation, so that
all kind of stops stops untilthe new pope is elected.
But initially there'sessentially a period of mourning
that goes on Normally in StPeter's Basilica, so
(05:55):
particularly Francis' pedagogy.
Right, he was kind of known tobe not so much this pope that
was into, you know, all the howdo I say all the pomp that comes
sort of with the office.
It's very traditional, but hejust wasn't really about that.
(06:16):
He didn't wear a lot of thevestments.
He didn't like people kissingyou know the hand or the ring.
He stayed in a.
I don't know if you guys saw aroom of where he stayed, but his
room was very austere Verymodest, very modest.
Very modest, and so after that,then, the official process
(06:39):
starts, the conclave processwhere the coronal process.
That should begin in the nextwhat week or two?
It seemed to be.
Yeah, so after nine days hepassed away on Monday, so it
should be Wednesday or Thursday.
That that is like kind ofofficially starts and there's
(07:01):
masses and then there'sparticular readings that go on,
but pretty much, um, thecardinals, they're just kind of
locked in these, in these, uh inin in a particular place, um,
in rome, in the vatican.
They have absolutely no contactwith the world.
Uh, they're given meals, theyperform prayers and then,
(07:26):
essentially, a voting processbegins.
There's a lot of deliberationwhere, you know, for any of you
who have seen the movie theConclave, the Cardinals that
have spoken about that said it'sso far off from what really
happens, even though it was verywell acted.
(07:47):
I have not seen it, but it wasvery well acted.
It's interesting because theVatican now makes sure that not
only are the cardinals lockedaway, but they can't have any
kind of communication with theoutside world.
There's no cell phones, there'sno way for cell phones to get
(08:10):
out.
They have, I don't know the,the technology, but there's all
kinds of blocking things from,from people getting in, from
drones being able to listen.
Uh, they, because they reallywhen the word conclave conclave
means with a lock, clave meanslock, and so conclave means
(08:37):
locked in.
And not only are theyphysically locked in, they are
psychologically andelectronically locked in,
because the Vatican does notwant any outside influences to
influence the work of thecardinals.
(08:58):
And so it's very, veryinteresting, and so we will wait
.
We'll see either black smoke,where the black smoke just means
no pope yet, and the whitesmoke means yes, we have a pope,
but then the first day there'sone ballot, and then the next
(09:22):
three days there's two ballots aday until they get a.
What is it, rudy?
Is it a two-thirds majority?
It's two-thirds majority.
And then they get up to thepoint where they can have up to
four ballots a day, two in themorning and two in the afternoon
.
But, they need at leasttwo-thirds majority for the
(09:45):
official election.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
It's an amazing moment.
I've seen a number of thesethrough my life and have watched
with a lot of interest becauseof the significance of the
Pope's office, the significanceof the person very often on the
stage of world affairs in termsof influencing the world and I
(10:13):
noticed everywhere.
Flags are at half staff rightnow, everywhere you go.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
You know, I was going to ask you guys about that.
Wherever I've been drivingaround Houston, flags are at
half-staff.
Is that for the Pope or someoneelse?
Speaker 3 (10:31):
I think it's for the Pope.
Yeah, For the while.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
People forget that the Pope is a head of state.
It's no different than Godforbid, but it's no different
than I don't know Prime Ministerof England or somebody like
that Diner or Queen.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
But we don't have half staff.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Oh, I think sometimes we actually do.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
For heads of state of other states.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (10:59):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
I don't think, I don't know that we do.
I thought we've done that Interms of that.
But I think the Pope is of atranscendent nature, right?
I mean, I think his chair, hisplace, is a greater place,
(11:20):
honestly, than you would findwith any other king of one
country, Because when you thinkabout a billion or more
Catholics around the world andhe's the head and Catholics are
everywhere, right, I agree.
So I think there's throughoutthe world.
So I just think that that isfor the Pope.
(11:41):
I don't have any otherknowledge about that, but it
just made perfect sense when Ibegan seeing it immediately.
Stuart's going to look it uphere in just a minute and find
out for sure.
But I can't imagine any otherfigure garnering that kind of
world attention, honestly, evenanother head state.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
You know what I thought of even another, you
know what I thought of Dr Penceis there was a lot of also heads
of state that went left, right,everybody, and there's not too
many figures of course, andFather Mario said the Queen of
England, I can't think of toomany figures in today's day and
(12:26):
age that could kind of bring allthese people together.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
In a sort of yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
I think it's just a remarkable testimony to the
ongoing significance of faith,religion, morality, the whole
connection.
We may live in a secular state,in a secular time, but I think
that there's something biggerthat pulls us all together at a
(12:59):
time like this, and it seemslike well, you just looked it up
to make sure.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
No, it did say for the Pope, and there was a
specific letter from thegovernor of Texas that he was
lowering the flags to half-staffbecause of the Pope, because of
the Pope, yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:17):
Oh, good okay.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
By the way, I just want to add oh go ahead Reverend
.
No, go ahead, say it again.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
I was just going to say you've got to remember.
I want to add almost a fifth ofthe United States is Catholic
right, so I mean it represents apretty large demographic.
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Like David said, it's every country in the world
pretty much is going to have aCatholic community.
Yeah, large Catholic.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
Right Asia Africa Catholic community.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Right.
Most of it Asia, africa.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Europe.
I mean there are countrieswhere we don't know because
there's not that kind ofinformation available, Right,
but throughout most of the worldyou're going to find you
Catholics are everywhere.
I'm telling you they're takingover the world.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
I just want to remind people that the newest movie,
conclave, isn't the only movieGoing back to the Shoes of the
Fisherman.
I remember seeing that when Iwas a kid and being very
impressed by it.
But there are other movies thattalk about the death and
election of a pope.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
And this one, the most recent one, I don't know.
It had a lot of problems to it.
I think it has a lot ofquestions about it.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
I think has a lot, a lot of questions about anthony
quinn the shoes of the fisherman.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Yeah, that's the one I remember, yeah, anthony quinn,
great actor.
Hey, tonight we're gonna, we'regonna.
I know we gotta go to a breakhere in a second, but tonight
we're going to be talking aboutit, ironically, maybe not
ironically, maybe providentially.
Uh, life cycle events, andwe're gonna, and and and.
One of the chief life cycleevents in all of our faiths are
(14:49):
funerals, deaths, burials,mourning and the significance of
what that means for not onlythe person who's died but also
for those that live behind.
You're listening to a show offaith here on AM1070, the Answer
.
Speaker 8 (15:06):
AM1070 and FM1033, the Answer.
Speaker 9 (15:10):
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Speaker 8 (16:39):
The Second Amendment does not apply to semi-auto
rifles, nor does it apply tobolt-action rifles, pistols or
revolvers.
Hey, the Second Amendmentrestricts government.
The technology of the firearmis irrelevant.
The restrictions on governmentremains the same, regardless of
the firearm.
The Second Amendment was notwritten to grant permission to
(17:01):
citizens to own and bearfirearms.
It forbids government'sinterference in the right to
keep and bear arms.
Period.
Supporting the Second.
Speaker 7 (17:25):
Amendment.
This is the big 1070, theanswer.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Welcome back to A.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Show of Faith on Intensively.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Answered.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Hey, there is a season indeed.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
I'll be born at a time to die.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
There is.
You know, many years ago, youand I taught a course at Houston
Baptist University.
Great days Called Introductionto Judaism.
Yep, at Houston BaptistUniversity, great days Called
Introduction to Judaism, and oneof the phrases that stuck with
me, that I had not grown up with, that I didn't have any
theological training in regardto, is life cycle events, and so
(17:57):
what I thought we would dotonight is talk a little bit
about life cycle events andtheir meaning, their
significance, the significanceof ritual when it comes to doing
these kind of things, becauseall of us have them All of our
faiths do.
Now I think that the the moreliturgical churches have, more
very often than those thataren't liturgical.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
But in Judaism— and by liturgical you mean—.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Well, there's a particular way that worship is
conducted.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Set collection of prayers, set things to do.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Right set things to do on particular days and such
as opposed to more of a freechurch, the free church
tradition.
So where did that phrase comefrom, stuart?
Let's start with that.
Life cycle events.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Well, life is a cycle .
We are born and we die.
That right there, covers twolife cycle events.
And then usually there is somerecognition or acknowledgement
of the child growing up at twoother places, which are puberty
(19:05):
and marriage.
So these are the major changesin a person's life.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
So birth, birth there's certain rituals around
birth, right and Father Mario, Iwant to kick this to you and
Rudy both in a minute to thinkabout these kind of four moments
that we're talking about Right.
So birth and coming into thisworld.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Birth, coming into this world, and then moving from
child to to adulthood.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
Puberty is usually 12 , 13, somewhere in that age
group, so that's a key moment.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Or confirmation at 16 .
It's still the same basic idea.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
And then marriage, very often Marriage.
Not everybody gets married, buta lot of people do.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
But it is a life cycle event, because the event
of marriage is a major change ina person's life.
Yeah, and then, of course,death.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
Yeah, right, right Now.
What about?
I mean?
What about things like thebirth of children?
What about?
Speaker 2 (20:06):
finishing college, what about?
I mean those kind of things.
The baby doesn't know it's gota celebration of having been
born.
Okay, the baby doesn't know,it's got a celebration of having
been born.
So I think that all rituals fora birth is kind of mainly for
the parents Okay, to acknowledgefor them the change in their
(20:27):
lives of having a child.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
But it's also to welcome as well Father Mario.
We've talked about four momentsin life.
We've talked about birth, We'vetalked about coming of age, we
talked about marriage, or wementioned marriage here and we
talked about death.
Are there Catholic rituals kindof focused in upon?
Speaker 4 (20:48):
those.
Well, for a Catholic, you'vegot to remember here that you
have to talk about practicingCatholic, and those are what I
call Catholic in name only.
You know there's people thatyou say, well, what religion are
you?
And they say, well, I'mbaptized Catholic, but they've
(21:13):
marked their lives in no waywith any Catholic ritual or
Catholic meaning, and so we haveto put that aside.
Yeah, for a Catholic youngperson growing up, the cycle
would be their first communion.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
What age, would that be?
Speaker 4 (21:34):
Around seven years old.
The Catholic Church considersseven years old to be the age of
reason.
You're stopped being, forexample, if you are less than
seven years old, you can bebaptized by the authority of the
faith of your parents, and yourparents promise to bring you up
(21:58):
as Catholic.
But the moment you hit sevenyears old, that ends, and from
then on you have to go through aperiod of formation to
understand what you're doing interms of baptism.
That's a major change in ayoung person's life.
And then the next part would bewhen they get to be 13, 14, 15,
(22:20):
which they do confirmation, andthat's another very strong life
cycle event.
And, of course, from there yougo into marriage.
But I was thinking, you know,for me I did not go into
marriage.
You know, my own life cycle wasbaptism, confirmation and then
(22:42):
ordination, which occurred whenI was 27 years old.
So those orders become very theholy orders, right, that become
sort of the guiding thing ofyour life.
Oh, my god, let me tell youwhen I was ordained to the
(23:02):
priesthood, oh, you talk aboutmy life changing.
You know, it's funny because II love to say it this way in the
catholic church, when thesacrament that makes a priest A
priest is called holy orders,okay, just take away the
adjectives and you get the wordorders.
(23:23):
Okay, so for a CatholicChristian to receive holy orders
.
You know, it's funny because Iand I say this very, very
proudly in a good way Whenever Isee Jesus who I'm looking at
right now on the cross, I see mycommanding officer, I see the
(23:49):
person who gives me orders.
Who gives me orders.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
And my life is a response to the orders that I
get from him through variouschannels.
Interesting, interesting.
I know we've got to go to breakhere in just a minute, but when
we do I'm going to come back.
Rudy, I want to hear about youbecause you're the most recently
married of our group and I wantto hear about that a little bit
as a life cycle events.
Father Mario had baptismconfirmation, then holy orders,
(24:30):
and you've had a similarexperience, at least at first,
but not necessarily the orders.
I don't know.
Does your wife order you around?
Speaker 4 (24:40):
Is that safe?
Is that safe Okay?
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Okay, all right, stuart, all right this is a show
of faith.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
My commanding officer .
Speaker 2 (24:49):
This is a show of faith and we will be right back.
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Oh yes, wait a minute, mrBoatman.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Wait, wait, hey, hey, houston, this is AM 1070, the
Answer.
Welcome back to A Show of Faithon AM 1070.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
All right, we're talking about life cycle events
tonight, the kind of things thatwe sort of just go through in
life, and the importance ofthose rituals and what they mean
and the significance that wetake from them in our lives.
And such Rudy, most recentlymarried among us.
What a fool believes.
(27:42):
Oh sorry, no, no, no, no Watchout.
Watch out Stuart what.
I didn't see anything His wifeis seated right next to him.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
I was just randomly singing a song.
No, you weren't.
No, you weren't.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
Rudy baptism right.
First thing, and thenconfirmation.
Speaker 4 (28:02):
Yeah, yeah, I was.
I don't know how to say this.
I was very fortunate because Iwas sort of born into a family
that was practicing Catholics atleast my mother was.
(28:48):
And she took this quiteseriously and I think it's just.
It makes an enormous differencewhen you have a parent, you
know, and to all, I guess,christians, I mean my First
Communion, just normal stuff.
Normally confirmation is donearound kind of early teens, sort
of 12 to kind of 16-year-old,that's sort of how it's done,
(29:10):
although people can do it at alltimes, right, I mean when you
convert or when you can kind ofpostpone it.
I've known people who have doneit later and then, yeah, from
there, once you're confirmed,you're just kind of coasting, I
guess, until the next life cycleevent, if you will.
So for me, of course, that wasmarriage, and marriage is, of
(29:34):
course, a covenant, right, it'swhat we consider something that
is indissoluble.
Right, it's a bond, it'ssomething that is done in the
presence of God and only Godalone can sort of undo it right,
(29:56):
by either death or till death.
Do us part, right, and that isit.
Right then, right, exactly.
So my life is, if you will,mine exclusively anymore,
everything I do.
I think about her as well, andit's hard because we and I'm
(30:22):
speaking for me too right, Imean, I tended to be sort of a
bit selfish, right, I went whereI went to.
I traveled where I wanted to.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
I always wanted to talk to you about that.
I just felt this yeah, that wasa problem for you.
Yeah, you were just veryselfish, just kidding, just
kidding.
But you're right, when thischange comes, it puts everything
into a different perspective, adifferent world altogether.
Speaker 4 (30:51):
Yeah, and you really have to make things, and so am I
.
I mean, I know, of course youdidn't take the sacrament of
Matthew, but to a large degree Ithink it kind of applies too.
It's like your life isn't sortof yours right.
I mean you're kind of turningit over to Jesus, you're turning
it over to the sacrament.
I mean, it's not about justwhat I want to do.
(31:13):
I mean, of course it's like,yes, I want to work and I want
to, you know, be successful, andI want to have kids and I want
to do these things.
But so largely, it's okay.
How can I love this personcorrectly?
How can I be the father and thefamily man that I need to be an
example of a community that Ineed to be?
It's not just I don't know, itjust kind of gets you really
(31:35):
thinking outside yourself, which, frankly, is more probably what
we need in today's day and agethan ever.
It's just kind of not thinkingso selfishly.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
One of the things that kind of keeps coming up in
the conversation is this idea ofritual and that these things
that we do are ritual-like.
Stuart, let me start with you.
Why is ritual so important?
Speaker 2 (32:04):
I think there's a whole lot of psychological
benefit that comes from rituals,and it doesn't matter if it's
religious ritual or even what wemight term secular ritual.
Like I always use the exampleand you've heard me say it a
million times how would you liketo go to an Astros game and not
begin the game with theStar-Spangled Banner?
You'd feel like something wasweird, like something was
(32:26):
missing.
I mean, it sets the tone.
It's like you know we're allsinging this song about the
United States together.
It doesn't matter we're onopposing teams, but it's the
country's pastime, as they say,and you know we're still in this
together, kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
Yeah, father Mario doesn't know what baseball is.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Oh, I forgot.
We forgot.
We should explain that to himsomeday.
Yeah, exactly, but we weretalking about in the break that
even the secular world hasrituals for even something like
birth, like a baby shower.
You know there are.
We have a need for ritualsbecause the ritual reminds us.
(33:10):
You know what's the line.
So teach us to number our daysthat we may get us a heart of
wisdom.
So teach us to number our daysthat we may get us a heart of
wisdom.
So by numbering, by havingthese rituals, it helps us count
and realize the passage of time.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
But you know, Stuart, let me just start it in here.
There's a sentence that I'vealways liked, and it goes like
this that which is true at alltimes and in all places must be
recognized and celebrated at aspecific time and a specific
place.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
And that's what ritual does for us.
That's what it does.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
Absolutely so you're taking what is true and taking
something that is, in a way,eternal, true for all time,
right, and you're taking but itto be acknowledged acknowledged
in a certain place at a certaintime right yeah yeah, well, a
(34:03):
part of what I think a ritualdoes too is it brings people
together, you know, in acommunity kind of to, to help
you understand that you're notgoing to raise that baby on your
own, exactly.
I mean, yeah, there'll,there'll be nights where you're
doing it alone.
You feel very much alone, butraising a child is very much a
(34:24):
group effort, right, and thepeople that come together as a
part of that.
And the same thing is true in achild's baptism.
I don't know if it's the samething, stuart.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
I don't know if it's the same thing, stuart where the
community comes together to saywe pledge to be a part of this
child's life in a Jewish lifeand to train them in ways of
Judaism.
And I would argue that that'sthe real reason why we attend a
wedding is to say to the personperson getting married in the
same way that we are here foryou now, for this, we will be
with you in times of trouble.
I think that the it's not justto celebrate the love between
the two and the, and the weddingand the vows and the marriage
(35:09):
and all that.
It's also to say to the couplewe are here with you now, we
will be with you later, and Ithink that it's.
It's like a funeral god forbidis.
We are still here for eachother.
The deceased is gone, but wecan share in the memory, we can
share in the grief.
You know, aiding somebody togrieve takes away some of their
(35:32):
grief not all of it, but some ofit.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
Yeah, I remember when Lisa passed away.
Yep, this was back around 2001.
2001.
Mm-hmm and I came and we had aceremony at your house, right?
Speaker 6 (35:49):
And it's Shiva service.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
Right, which is a particular kind of mourning,
mm-hmm.
And one of the fellows theresaid to me we look at grief like
poison, that if you put toomuch poison in any one person
it's too much for them.
They, they, they die.
But we come and take a littlebit of all the poison ourselves.
(36:12):
Uh, each person who comes tosing, to pray, to bring food, to
be a part of the ceremony istaking on a little bit of that
poison in themselves, that partof that grief, so that you, in
that particular case, would notbe overwhelmed with the grief
that was there Right, absolutely.
(36:34):
Yeah, that's a great way of, Ithink, thinking about that and
understanding it.
Speaker 4 (36:41):
You know I'd like to add something.
We're talking about major, I'mgoing to say overarching time
time, but there is in Catholiclife, there is a ritual moment
which organizes for a Catholicyour week, and that's the
(37:04):
celebration of the Eucharist onSunday.
You know, because that is, I cantell you that my life, not just
because I'm a priest butbecause I'm a Christian, my life
revolves around remembering thedeath and resurrection of the
Lord every single week, and sothe week has very much a
(37:40):
structure to it and for theCatholic Church, what is called
the liturgical year, whichbegins with the four weeks
before Christmas and then theChristmas season, the Advent
season is four weeks beforeChristmas, and then the
Christmas season, and then wehave what's called ordinary time
, and then begins Lent, which isthe five, six weeks before
Easter, and then we have theEaster time, which we are right
now, and then we go intoOrdinary Time, and so that's
(38:03):
marked by different colors.
Like, if you walk into aCatholic church during Advent or
Lent, you're going to seeeverything in purple, which is a
color of intense reflection,and if you go in during
Christmas or Easter time you'llsee white, but when you go into
ordinary time you'll see thewhole church done in green,
(38:26):
which is the color of nature.
So it sets up for us a veryrecognizable pattern of a ritual
way of going through the yearand marking the seasons that the
Church says.
It's not just the seasons ofthe year but in terms of the
(38:48):
seasonality of the Christian,Because, remember, for the
Catholic Church our year doesnot begin on January.
Our year begins four weeks,four Sundays, specifically
before the Feast of Christmas,and that's what's called the new
liturgical year, which we begin.
(39:09):
So it's an entire cycle, orthat is another life cycle event
that most Catholics whopractice your faith are involved
in.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
Yeah, is there anything like that Stuart in
Judaism, where you I mean, Iknow you have services, but do
you see that?
Or is that regarded as lifecycle?
Speaker 2 (39:37):
think of, in terms of changing colors and that kind
of thing would be for the HighHoly Days, the mantles, the
coverings on the Torah scrolls.
They usually change to a whitecolor.
Oh, okay.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
That's it, but still these weeks of gathering
together with the community toread Torah and to hear a sermon.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Weekly services, daily services, those are part
of formation right, right,absolutely.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
I mean it'd be hard hear from you in terms of what
is high church and low church,in terms of the Protestant
tradition.
How is practice there?
Speaker 3 (40:20):
Well, protestants are all over the place.
It's all over the place andhonestly, I want to finish up
thinking about the passing ofthe Pope again, and and and the
morning rituals that that takeplace with that.
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And together we will see how lovely heaven will be
Welcome back to A Show of Faithon AM 1070,.
Speaker 3 (44:17):
The Answer hey, and that's our ritual tonight, on a
Sunday night, it is Right, Imean Miranda plays that song and
we know that that is for FatherMario Yep.
Speaker 4 (44:28):
Thank you, thank you, thank you yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
And we have certain phrases that are part of our
ritual.
Yeah, you know you'll keep usin your prayers.
You will certainly be in ours.
Speaker 7 (44:38):
Right.
Speaker 2 (44:38):
So life has a whole lot of ritual to it, and I think
it's because it gives us asense of belonging.
We know what's expected of us,you know we follow through, and
I think that that's anotherelement of rituals, the
importance of rituals in ourlives you were talking one time
about, about ritual and and kidschildren about children about.
Speaker 3 (45:02):
You know when you sing a song and they'll say do
it again, do it again right youknow, because even though maybe
you've done that or you've readthat thousand three thousand
times.
Now they want you to do itagain.
Right, Because there'ssomething comforting about it.
They know what to expect.
Exactly, and so all thesethings are important.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
The first word they learn may be mommy.
The second word they learn maybe daddy, but the third word is
going to be again, again.
Speaker 3 (45:29):
That's probably true.
Yeah, thanks for, yeah, theprotestant tradition is all over
the place on this because, uh,you, you've got protestant
churches like the anglicanchurch that uh follows very much
a liturgical way and liturgicalyear.
They may, they work very much.
(45:53):
If you were to go into aCatholic church or an Anglican
church, a lot of times you don'tknow the difference, you can't
tell the difference.
In some Lutheran churches.
Yeah, exactly.
So you do have Protestantchurches like that that are high
church, that are liturgical andthat they follow set prayers
(46:15):
and calendar and those kind ofthings and that the life cycle
events though that term may beunknown there, they still have
those particular.
They have baptism andconfirmation and they follow
very much the same kind ofcalendar, as it were.
It's interesting to me and Idon't know that I knew this
(46:38):
until you said it earlier,father Mario that the age of
reason begins at the age ofseven, which I thought was
interesting.
That was new to me.
I didn't know that in theCatholic Church, baptists have
historically followed this ideaof an age of accountability, and
(47:00):
this is a phrase that you willoften hear among Baptist
churches.
Baptists have a thing calledbeliever's baptism, have a thing
called believer's baptism, thatis, that you must express
personal faith in Jesus Christas your Lord and Savior before
you seek baptism.
So they don't typically Baptistchurches don't baptize babies.
(47:24):
Let me just say that.
They don't baptize children.
So it's not until a person hasmade actually a personal
confession and profession offaith that they are baptized.
So that could be.
You know you're going to haverituals in a sense, but they're
nothing set rituals about thebirth of a child.
In some churches that I've beento, the first time a child
(47:48):
comes to church after being born.
There's very often something ona small scale done.
It's not done necessarily infront of the whole church.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
But would members of a Baptist church still have a
baby shower?
Would they still have?
Speaker 3 (48:02):
Oh yeah, absolutely All those kind of things Right,
but those wouldn't be consideredagain.
Religious no, no yeah yeah, butthere's the recognition of that.
But baptism itself there's nosuch thing as confirmation in
baptism, because it's the ideathat you have confirmed your
faith through its profession andthrough submitting to baptism.
I was baptized at the age ofseven, but there have been
(48:24):
people baptized in their 20s and30s and 40s and 50s.
It could be at any time in aperson's life after they've made
a profession of faith.
We do have marriage as a veryimportant piece of our lives.
There's nothing reallynecessarily marking a coming of
(48:47):
age, except the idea of the ageof accountability, that a person
is now considered to beaccountable before God if they
were to pass away, to die andnot to have made a profession of
faith.
Is that a specific age though?
(49:08):
Well, it's described as the ageof accountability.
It's 12, 13 years old, veryoften described but there's
nothing really that's firm inthe tradition about it.
It's sort of just from churchto church, and this is another
distinctive of Baptist churches,that Baptist churches typically
(49:30):
are not connected in the sameway as liturgical churches.
The Baptist churches typicallyare not connected in the same
way as liturgical churches, witha bishop and that kind of thing
, In other words every church isautonomous.
Every church is independent.
Every church makes its own sortof decisions.
You want to be connected andyou want to cooperate, but you
(49:51):
want to cooperate and you wantto associate, but you don't
necessarily look to them to helpyou confirm people who are new
believers, that kind of thing.
So marriage obviously is veryimportant.
It's not considered a sacrament.
In the same way, it'sconsidered a very important time
(50:12):
before God and before witnesses, and very much of our
traditions and words often usedin marriage ceremonies are
derived from Anglican and maybeeven Catholic services as well.
Obviously, funerals become veryimportant, right, right.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
And they're usually the same the end of life, same
collection of psalms, samecollection of.
They're usually the same theend of life, same collection of
psalms, same collection ofprayers, same collection of
things for all of our faith.
Speaker 3 (50:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:36):
You know you're going to hear the 23rd Psalm.
Speaker 3 (50:38):
You're going to hear that, you're going to hear that
and you might hear other thingsthat are familiar from the
Hebrew Scriptures as well inthat particular time.
But there are also then NewTestament readings and there are
certain hymns, like how GreatThou Art.
I remember my cousin who passedaway.
She was in her 50s recently,last fall, and you know that's
(51:03):
one of the songs that's kind ofa stalwart song, a song of
Baptists, particularly ruralBaptist, now more so than
anything, churches when there'sa funeral.
How Great Thou Art, it's agreat hymn, a great hymn of the
faith.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
And so it's I would think that Amazing Grace would
be up there.
Yeah, Amazing.
Speaker 3 (51:23):
Grace is often up there, yeah, as well.
So there's a lot of there'ssome overlap, but you find a lot
of there's a lot there's someoverlap, but but you, you find a
lot of catholic sorry, a lot ofprotestant churches that
operate similarly to what wemight find in catholic churches,
um, particularly some anglicanand lutheran churches and
churches like that, david?
Speaker 2 (51:44):
wouldn't the same thing be true for, like a
wedding service, you You'regoing to hear most likely you're
going to hear love is You'regoing to have to help me, david
1 Corinthians 13.
You're going to hear the lovechapter very often, so there is
a ritual for it.
Speaker 3 (52:03):
There's a ritual.
There's no doubt about it.
There's a ritual, but it's notconsidered a mass.
There's not necessarily theLord's table there and such, and
I know we've got to go A coupleminutes.
So, gosh, my time is All right,so here's my final question.
(52:25):
Final question, all right.
I have a good friend, a Jewishfriend.
His name is Moshe Dayan.
Okay, moshe.
Dayan, I've heard it Jewishfriend, his name is.
Speaker 2 (52:32):
Moshe.
Dayan Okay.
Speaker 3 (52:33):
Okay, moshe Dayan, I've heard of him and he has a
son named Danny Dayan.
Okay, and so Danny Dayan isgoing to be bar mitzvahed what?
Speaker 2 (52:41):
do I get him for his bar mitzvah?
Anything that you would get forany other child coming of age.
What do they like?
A CD of a music they like, okay, you know, just those.
Speaker 3 (52:51):
Any kind of any kind of thing absolutely doesn't have
to be Jewish in terms, I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (52:56):
I'm sure the child would much more appreciate you
know rock and roll CD than theywould a but what they probably
say.
What is the CD?
Oh, I'm sorry, I'm showing myage.
You are Please do not get him aTV See.
For weddings we make it easy.
We have the list at the storeor whatever, whatever they call
(53:18):
that.
Speaker 3 (53:19):
But for bar mitzvahs and births and everything else
you've got to, I know I meanbecause we're all going to know
somebody's being confirmed beingbaptized Right At some point,
or being bar mitzvahed or aJewish wedding whatever.
What do?
Speaker 2 (53:34):
we give, what kind of present?
It's?
How do you give a gift?
You give a gift according towhat the recipient would like
the most, not what you want themto have, but what they want to
have.
Okay, that's how you give anygift.
It's the same kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (53:47):
All right, father Mario gave me some good advice
earlier this week on a con, a, afirst communion.
Speaker 2 (53:54):
uh service what was it huh?
On what to give, on what togive which was.
Speaker 3 (54:00):
Well, she may be listening, so I better not say
okay too early.
You don't it's supposed to be asurprise.
Yeah, yeah, it hasn't arrivedfrom Amazon yet.
We're hoping it'll arrive in aday or so, but anyway, I know
our time is.
Thanks, father Mario.
Speaker 4 (54:19):
Get to feeling better thank you very much, I will
complete and speedy recoveryspeedy recovery and, rudy, greet
your fair bride for us.
Speaker 3 (54:36):
She has a lot of work cut out for her.
Speaker 2 (54:38):
All right, this is a show of faith.
On AM 1070, the Answer Keep usin your prayers because you will
be in ours.
Speaker 8 (54:45):
Find us at am1070theanswercom.
Download our apps.
Stream us 24-7.
Knth and K277DE-FM.
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