February 24, 2025 • 55 mins
Join us in this captivating discussion as we explore one of the most contentious and pressing issues of our time—immigration. In this episode, our diverse panel delves into the moral and ethical complexities surrounding immigration policies in the United States. We dissect the contrasting attitudes between current political leadership, discuss the concept of "the scandal of particularity," and how this influences our understanding of human rights and compassion.
Through personal stories, the conversation brings to light the challenges faced by those navigating the immigration system, reminding us of the human experiences often lost in political discourse. Our discussion is not solely about the rules and regulations but rather the ethical responsibilities that accompany them. How do we balance the needs of our communities with a compassionate understanding toward those seeking a better life? How does moral theology frame our approach to such pressing issues?
We invite you to listen, reflect, and engage with the profound questions raised in this episode. Let us explore immigration not just as a legal issue but as a conversation about humanity, dignity, and shared moral responsibility. Tune in, and don’t forget to subscribe, share your thoughts, and leave a review!
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Speaker 1 (00:17):
Thank you.
There's battle lines beingdrawn.
Nobody's right if everybody'swrong.
Young people speak in theirminds, are getting so much
(00:43):
resistance From behind Everytime we stop.
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look what's goingdown.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Welcome to A Show of Faith where a professor, priest,
millennial and rabbi discusstheology, philosophy, morality
and ethics and anything else ofinterest in religion.
If you have any response to ourtopics or any comments
regarding what we say, we wouldlove to hear from you.
But we have a brand new emailaddress.
It's ashowoffaith1070 atgmailcom.
(01:18):
Write that down and use it.
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You can hear our shows againand again by listening.
Pretty much anywhere podcastsare heard.
Our priest is Fr Mario Arroyo,retired pastor of St Cyril of
(01:38):
Alexandria in the 10,000 blockof Westheimer.
Hello, that was deep.
Our professor David Capes isour Baptist minister, the
director of academic programmingfor the Lanier Theological
Library.
You did well, rabbi.
I try my best.
Rudy Kong is our millennialsystems engineer and has his
(02:00):
master's degree in theology fromthe University of St Thomas.
I am Rabbi Stuart Federo.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Howdy howdy.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Hey, there you are.
I am Stuart Federo, retiredRabbi Emeritus of Congregation
Sha'ar HaShalom, the Clear Lakearea of Houston, Texas.
Nikki and Miranda are our boardoperators and together, Nikki
and Miranda help us soundfantastic.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
Okay, yes, hey, rudy, where are you now?
Okay?
Speaker 5 (02:27):
Hey, rudy, where are you now?
I am still in Brazil, but wefly back tomorrow, so I'll be
taking the next week's call fromGuatemala oh home again.
Speaker 7 (02:41):
Jeez, yes, sir.
Well, it is my turn.
Uh, I am the show director.
This is father mario, and, um,what we're dealing with today, I
would like to deal with is thewhole topic of immigration.
Um, because of course it is somuch in the news right now and I
(03:05):
would like to get into, youknow, the morality of sanctuary
cities and the morality ofdeportations, the morality of
Notice what I keep saying, Ikeep on talking about the
morality.
That's what it is, yeah, that'swhat it is.
So here's the context that Iwould like to establish what was
(03:27):
happening right now, that'swhat it is by the irresponsible
understanding of the border theUS-Mexico border especially, but
(03:50):
also the Canadian by Joe Biden,because Biden let it go to the
point that nobody I meaneverybody was coming in.
Millions of people I think Iheard that, five or six million
people came in.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Wouldn't you say that their radical morality of the
Democratic Party is thereshouldn't be borders anywhere.
Everybody should be free to goanywhere they want, whenever
they want no matter who they are, what they stand for what they
act.
That is correct.
Speaker 7 (04:23):
No matter who they are, what they stand for, what
they act.
That is correct, yes, but youknow the reason?
I think that they thought thatthey were doing that is because
they thought the Democratsthought that all the Hispanics
that were being let in weregoing to be voting.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Democrats, oh, not just the Democrats, not just the
Hispanic community, butimmigrants in general.
Speaker 7 (04:46):
Immigrants in general .
And guess what?
This year they didn't.
Half of the Hispanics voted forTrump.
So here's where I'd like tostart, because the ultimate
thing right tonight is lookfolks, I'm a Catholic priest.
Thing right tonight is lookfolks, I'm a Catholic priest and
I've tried to do my best tounderstand the Catholic moral
(05:11):
understanding of the issues ofimmigration.
Now, obviously, there's goingto be a contrast between the
Catholic understanding ofimmigration and the American,
and any country has its ownunderstanding of immigration.
But we're in the United States,so we're going to talk about
(05:33):
the United States' understandingof immigration.
Obviously, we're going to betalking about Trump's attitude
and Biden's attitude andcomparing them.
My goal tonight is not to sayone is right and one is wrong,
but to just compare them.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
And to look at it through our moral, ethical,
religious viewpoints.
Speaker 7 (05:53):
That is correct, David and Rudy.
Are you guys clear about whatwe're doing?
Speaker 4 (06:01):
No, I think it's a great topic.
It's an important topic.
I don't think we're going tofind the clarity that we like to
find in religion, that we'regoing to find with what's
happening.
Well, the national question ofclarity is going to be
equivalent to any particularreligious form of it.
Speaker 7 (06:22):
Yeah, I don't think we're going to find clarity,
because even the Catholiccommunity and even Catholic
bishops are all drawing the lineat different places.
And it's very interestingbecause I have, in the last few
years, been a great fan of aconcept that um, that I I find
(06:49):
it constantly um important to tounderstand that that it's I'm
tired.
You can tell, yeah, um, but Ithink the the concept that I
think we're going to find iswhat's called the scandal of
particularity.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
The scandal of particularity.
Speaker 7 (07:10):
Yes, Now let me explain.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
What in particular?
Speaker 7 (07:12):
No, let me explain the scandal of particularity and
it's how it's going to beapplied to the topic that we
have at hand.
Okay, the word scandal, firstof all, is not to be understood
as taking an offense, you know,like, oh my God, I'm scandalized
.
You know the word scandal and,david, you can probably give me
(07:34):
a better understanding of this,but it means somewhat of a
stumbling block that you're,you're doing something,
something that is being proposedis giving you pause, and it's
not easy.
You're not swallowing it easily.
Am I correct in this?
Speaker 4 (07:51):
Yeah, yeah.
Scandal on is like a stumblingblock right.
Okay, something that causessomebody else to stumble.
Speaker 7 (07:58):
Okay, so it's not going down easy.
Okay, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
It's like it's not going down easy.
Speaker 7 (08:04):
Okay, yeah.
So the scandal, understand thatconcept.
Okay, that scandal is not anoffense, but it's a stumbling
block.
The scandal of particularity iswhen you have a general
principle of any kind, okay, andyou have to make a decision as
to where to bring it intoactuality, whether point A, b, c
(08:28):
, d, e, f, g, all the differentpoints that there are.
No matter what you decide,someone's going to be
scandalized, right?
No matter what you decide, okay, that's called the scandal of
particularity, okay, okay.
So I know that this is going tobe part of the answer here.
(08:49):
There is no way to get aroundit.
That is going to be.
The issue of immigration isgoing to hit that scandal of
particularity.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
And there may not be any kind of resolution.
Speaker 7 (09:02):
No, there may not be.
There may not be.
So, Rudy, you want to jump inand say anything about what I've
been saying?
Speaker 5 (09:08):
No, no, I think you should continue because I have a
few thoughts, but go ahead andfinish, we'll get to them.
Speaker 7 (09:18):
Okay.
Okay, the first topic that Iwould like to Now remember folks
, my specialty as opposed toMonsignor David and His Highness
Stuart and his lowlinessbecause he's just a kid, yeah,
(09:39):
he is so my specialty is what'scalled philosophical theology.
Now, what is philosophicaltheology?
I begin to deal with problemsfirst and foremost from the
philosophical perspective.
If you were dealing with, youknow altitude I begin dealing
(10:03):
with, begin to dealing with aproblem from 50,000 feet and
then come down and get closer.
That, what?
What I mean by that is sayingthat the very first thing, that
and I sent both all three of youan article it's just a short
thing on the church, catholicchurches approach to immigration
(10:24):
.
But what I find the mostinteresting's approach to
immigration.
But what I find the mostinteresting to begin to talk
about is the presumption and thedifference in presumptions
between governments and thechurch, because the governments
are saying our nation, our stuff, and we take care of our people
(10:49):
first, and then the rest of thepeople can come afterwards.
But they're not a priority.
The priority is with the peopleof our nation.
Okay, the Catholicunderstanding and you guys read
(11:10):
it in there that the earth as awhole belongs to all humankind,
have a certain amount of a rightto migrate if it becomes
intolerable to live where theyare living, and that the
(11:33):
countries who are receiving themneed to do a balancing act,
because to deny migration wouldbe to deny a human right.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
And you're saying that, that right.
Speaker 7 (11:48):
That right is.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Is that all land belongs to them.
Speaker 7 (11:51):
No, all land.
See this is where it gets alittle thorny that the Resources
of the earth as a whole.
Remember, when you're dealingwith a catholic church, you're
dealing with an institution thatthinks globally.
No, of course.
Ok, so the question is Godcreated the earth.
(12:13):
Whom are the resources of theearth for?
And the resources of the earthare for humankind, okay, and so
the church begins byunderstanding that we can limit,
but you cannot ultimately denyhuman beings a the right to have
(12:38):
food, the right to have lodging, because that's sustenance,
that's protection that iscorrect.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
But that, but that becomes the moral endeavor for
them to be able to go where theyneed to go in order to be able
to eat and survive.
Yes, not just the fact that allresources belong to them, but
they have the right, they don'tbelong to them.
Speaker 7 (12:57):
They belong to all of us.
But that it would include them.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Yes, that would include them.
So the rationalization forpeople anybody being able to
emigrate where they want to, isthat all resources belong to
them or because of theirpersonal need to survive and to
eat and to be protected, etc.
Okay, Seems to me like it wouldbe more the latter than the
(13:22):
former, Rudy.
It seems to me like it would bemore the latter than the former
.
Speaker 5 (13:29):
Rudy, I think it has.
I think it's better to, in myopinion, look at it more of a
sort of stewardship right forand I would extend it more to
the entire universe really, butin our current time it's the
Earth, but it's also properstewardship of the Earth and its
(13:50):
resources for the reduction ofhuman suffering as a whole.
Speaker 7 (13:56):
I think that's sort of the way I see it.
Yeah, you put it very, verywell.
David, do you want to come inand chime in on?
Speaker 4 (14:04):
that, yeah, I mean, I think part of the scandal of
particularity is that we're notgoing to be able to agree on all
these things indeed, but thewhole human story, I mean
Humanity 101, is one ofmigration and movement of people
.
Speaker 7 (14:22):
That's correct.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
I mean, throughout history and even prehistory,
people have been moving around.
There haven't been nations withborders.
The whole phenomenon of nationsis really a modern phenomenon.
It's not more than 400 or 500years old, depending upon who
(14:43):
you're looking to, than four orfive hundred years old,
depending upon who you'relooking to.
But but the but.
Yeah, there were countries.
Yeah, there were people groups.
Yeah, there were ethnic groups,but borders were were a little
bit fluid and such and so thehuman story is one of of
immigration and migrationmovement, and very often that
movement has to do withsustaining life, with fleeing
(15:04):
something, and very often thatmovement has to do with
sustaining life, with fleeingsomething.
Fleeing bad weather, you know,and the big ice ages.
People move south right inorder to try to find a better
life and be able to survive, andthe same thing with food and
such.
So I think these are bigstories.
These aren't small stories.
Speaker 7 (15:25):
These aren't just what's happening in my day.
That's why I brought up thescandal of particularity,
because it's going to get intothis.
Speaker 10 (15:30):
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The Answer At first I was afraid, I was petrified,
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I just walked in to find you here With that sad look
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Welcome back to A Show of Faithon M107.
The Answer.
Speaker 7 (18:10):
So you know, as we were talking, stuart and I were
talking, given where we'retalking about, how would you,
each one of us, how would youparticularize both the idea of
the Earth being for allhumankind?
And here's the other issue isthat property is not an absolute
(18:36):
right.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
I don't know what you mean by that.
Speaker 7 (18:40):
In other words, if you, for example, have a lot of
food and somebody is starving,just because the food belongs to
you doesn't mean that you havea right to withhold it from them
.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
See, I'm glad I asked , because when you say property,
I think my house, not my food.
Speaker 7 (18:56):
No, no, I'm talking about any kind of medicine, any
kind of property.
Ok, so property in and ofitself, because that's what
we're questioning.
Property in and of itself isnot an absolute right.
You don't have the right.
For example, we even we evenrecognize it when it comes to
price gouging.
We even recognize it.
When it comes to price gouging.
(19:18):
Okay, you may have somethingthat somebody needs in an
emergency, but there's a law.
It says you can't gouge them forit, but it's yours, and so
notice we're saying it's yours,but there's something wrong with
making it an absolute rightthat you can do whatever the
(19:39):
hell you want with it.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Well, you can do whatever you want with it, but
you still have to be reasonableabout it.
Speaker 7 (19:44):
Well, mainly because I'm still selling it.
I just can't sell it at aninflated price to make more
money off of your situation, Iknow, but see, you're already
recognizing that the right, ofyour right to ownership is not
absolute.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
You cannot decide the only time it would become not
absolute is if the governmentfeels it has the right to take
it from me.
Speaker 7 (20:11):
But on what grounds is the government doing that?
They're not.
No, but if there's a lawagainst price they can tell me I
can sell it.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
They can they start over?
I can sell it.
I can't gouge the price, okay,but they can say that my price
is too high and I have to lowerit.
But I'm still taking myposition and selling it.
Speaker 7 (20:32):
Yes but notice, if you had, you're not
understanding the absolute, butit's not absolute.
That's exactly what I'm saying.
That's not what I meant theright to ownership.
If you had an absolute right toownership, you could say I want
to sell it for whatever.
(20:52):
I want to sell it and thegovernment shouldn't tell me
anything about it.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
It's absolutely mine.
Okay, in in that sense thatmakes it not absolute.
Speaker 4 (21:03):
That's correct, okay david stewart, I mean david, and
yeah I, you know, I don't knowenough about property law to say
in a way I mean, would he berequired to sell it at all?
I mean, let mean, let's saysomething was needed, he had it.
Let's say he can't gouge theprice for it, but he's not,
(21:24):
would he be required to sell it?
Speaker 7 (21:26):
Well, would he?
For example?
Speaker 4 (21:29):
Again, I don't know property law no.
Speaker 7 (21:30):
but let's not talk about property law and actual
law.
We can, but there's still amoral, moral issue, but let me
give you another example.
Uh, you own your house and afreeway's coming through and the
government says we're takingyour house uh, eminent, eminent
domain.
Why do they take it for thecommon good?
(21:51):
Notice your right to that houseis not absolute right right
property.
Yes, that's true now all I'msaying is we need to begin to to
ask the question, because weall law recognizes that there
are situations in which you'relimited in terms of your
(22:13):
property.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
It is not absolute you know, know that when
Jefferson developed the life,liberty and pursuit of happiness
, his pursuit of property, hisproperty.
Speaker 7 (22:26):
Originally it was pursuit of property that's right
, that's right, but I think thevery first thing is for us to
understand that the right ofproperty Is not absolute.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Is not absolute In a very absolute sense.
It is not absolute, Rudy.
Speaker 5 (22:43):
Well, I can tell you we absolutely didn't create the
earth ourselves.
So I mean, I kind of fall backto this notion of stewardship,
right, and as a Catholic right,and I think about living an
authentically Catholic life.
If I have more and I see afellow human down the road
(23:08):
that's starving, then I amcompelled for that same love of
that imago Dei right, thatvision, that shared image and
likeness of God that I see in mybrother and sister, to make
sure that they aren't suffering.
Right, if it's within my power,my capacity, to affect that in
(23:31):
any way, right, and if you thinkabout that right, and if our
entire society, entire society,um, thought like that, then, man
, this would really be.
I'm kind of reminded of thisbook.
Uh, did you guys ever ever reada Thomas Moore's a utopia?
Speaker 7 (23:48):
No, I haven't read it .
Speaker 5 (23:51):
Oh, wow, it's it.
it kind of man I can't reallybut it, it, it kind of paints
this culture and this societythat sort of inverses the value
of what Thomas More sort ofdepicts as the current sort of
power plays at the time.
For example, in this land theyput prisoners in shackles of
(24:17):
gold, right where in medievalEurope gold is being extracted
from the Americas and it's veryvalued.
So if we had our moral compassand hierarchy properly aligned
then I mean, if you ask me,could we end suffering tomorrow?
Yeah, starvation tomorrow andhunger tomorrow yeah.
(24:38):
If we used all of our defensebudget that we have for all the
wars and all the mechanisms ofdestruction that we have, we'd
have better health care?
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Yes, we would, but that's a discussion about
distribution, not necessarilypossession.
But I quickly because we'relate.
But even the idea of having tohelp someone else who is in need
is also not absolute.
I don't have to make myselfdirt poor by taking all that I
(25:08):
have and giving it away?
Speaker 7 (25:09):
No, you do not.
You do not.
But where is the particularline Right?
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Where I said it and you said it and he says it and
they said it.
Speaker 7 (25:15):
That's a $50,000 question line, right where I
said it and you said it, he saysthat they said it's fifty
thousand dollar question andthis is 1070 k and th and we'll
be right back am 1070 the answer?
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Speaker 9 (25:58):
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Speaker 11 (26:03):
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Day to day.
I think people tend to kind ofrevert inward and you kind of
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The answer To everything turn,turn, turn.
There is a season.
Turn, turn, turn.
And a time to every purposeunder heaven.
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Speaker 2 (28:16):
Welcome back to A Show of Faith on AM 1070, the
Answer.
Speaker 7 (28:20):
You know, rudy, what I was thinking about when you
were talking about.
You know your understandings ofthe Christian understanding of
stewardship.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Well, that's a T.
It's stewardship Well, that's a.
Speaker 7 (28:38):
T, it's Stuart, the whole issue that the Pope brings
up, and that is the issue ofthe parable that Jesus gives
about the rich man and Lazarus,that Lazarus was dying and
starving to death and the richman didn't even take notice of
him.
And of course we are Christians, and so that already gives us a
(29:03):
very strong understanding thatour property is not absolutely
ours, that we have aresponsibility for all humankind
.
Speaker 5 (29:13):
Right, right, and I think that's sort of the
fundamental thing, right it is.
And back to your point, Father.
You talk about particularity.
I mean it applies to everything, right, Because this
particularity of ideologies,which is the world that we live
in, too, right, it's just, it'sso fragmented, right?
(29:34):
So when we try to make a sortof all catch-all in this example
, right, immigration policy, itjust doesn't work.
It just doesn't work foreverybody, and that's just the
reality.
Some people really think, andthere's arguments, right, for
having open borders and theeconomic statuses and Americans
(29:55):
are having less babies, and weneed the people, and you know,
and okay, there's all that, sure.
But then you talk about theexploitation, the child
trafficking, the pedophilia, allthese other things that come
with the immigration, right?
So it's kind of like you'rekind of damned if you do and
damned if you don't, right?
Speaker 7 (30:13):
That's why one of the points that I wanted to Go
ahead.
Speaker 5 (30:17):
Go ahead.
Well, it's just one of thepoints that I think a lot of
people sidestep, too, is part ofthe responsible citizenship,
right, and being a good stewardis also being a good steward
where I am locally right.
So when I think about Guatemalaor Brazil, right, it's what am
(30:39):
I doing locally in my owncountry?
Right, to help people here, tohelp policies here that don't
cause these mass migrations intothe United States?
Right, and I think that's a lotof the conversation that people
aren't having.
I mean, it doesn't stop thereality of what we have, right,
(31:00):
which is millions of peopletrying to cross the border right
now, but people think thatthey're going to the United
States to live this wonderfullife, and let me tell you, it's
hard work over there.
It's not easy, right.
I think there's a lot ofmisconceptions, too, with that
entire.
I don't know this kind ofstigma of the states and I don't
(31:22):
mean to say that it's not a lot.
There's not a lot moreopportunity in the United States
.
It's just it's not all daisiesand roses like people painted.
It's a lot of hard work andit's suffering and you have to
cross this desert and it's it'sdeath and it's just horrible.
Speaker 7 (31:42):
I once saw a video on YouTube about a Cuban guy who
came to the United States and hewas thinking that it was going
to be great.
You know all kinds of propertyand stuff like that.
And he says he was making akind of a stinging video saying
I feel more imprisoned herebecause I have to get up in the
morning, I have a job, I have togo this, I have to go do this
(32:05):
and in cuba you can pre, you'reliving a fairly low life in
terms of benefits or anythinglike that no food, very little
food and stuff like that.
But then you make the, youidealize the United States.
And when he said, man, this is,I had a lot more.
I was not as happy in terms ofmaterial wealth, but I had a lot
(32:28):
more relaxing and freedom inCuba.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
There's a wonderful movie with Robin Williams about
immigration to the United States.
He plays someone who's probablyRussian, slavic, whatever, and
the trials and tribulations ofimmigration and it's brilliant
and moving and it's a greatmovie.
Robin Williams I can't rememberthe name of the movie- David,
(32:53):
do you have any comments onanything?
Speaker 4 (32:56):
Yeah, gosh, a whole lot A few years ago.
Speaking of movies, there was amovie a few years ago that was
kind of interesting because itportrayed a cataclysmic thing
that was happening to the earth,and that is there was this
polar vortex coming down fromthe north and it made the
(33:17):
northern part of our country,this country, uninhabitable, so
that in order for people tosurvive, it was kind of like the
reverse of what's going ontoday.
Everybody had to pour intomexico, so there was.
It was just this reallyinteresting kind of reverse of
what we see happening today, butit was tough.
(33:38):
And so the question of theright to migrate.
Do we have the right to migratein order to sustain life, in
order to provide for people?
Speaker 7 (33:50):
if there were.
And Rudy mentioned it.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
Yeah, the world community does have a duty to
countries that are experiencingfamines and disasters and wars,
and it's best and it's moreeconomical to provide for people
where they are and to elevatetheir lives where they are than
(34:15):
it is for them to come tomigrate and to move.
That's always dodgy, that'salways difficult, it's dangerous
on so many levels, and so wehave to be kind of balancing as
a world community betweenmigration issues but also our
duty to those countries whereyou know life is much, much more
(34:38):
difficult and dangerous.
Speaker 7 (34:40):
But you know, what's interesting is that if you look
at the Kamala Harris tried to dothis, but she went down to look
at the root causes, you know,of immigration what you find is
a lot of corruption, even muchmore corruption than we have
here and more blatant and moreblatant.
(35:03):
And you have the cartels and youhave all kinds of stuff.
So, in terms of trying to fixthe problems of another nation
so we can help people remainwhere they are, that's not so
easy because you can't doanything about it.
You have to take your militaryinto another nation, and we're
(35:24):
facing that right now with thecartels in Mexico.
You know, yeah, exactly, andthat's where Trump is using
economic pressure points to tryand bring that about, economic
pressure points to try and bringthat about.
So, and one of the things I didwant to say is that, you know,
it's very one of the things thatI like about being Catholic is
(35:48):
this that the Catholic Church,in this and in other topics, we
give you the moral high ground,the moral principles, but the
Catholic Church is never sayingthat it itself makes the
decision, the particulardecisions.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Define particular decisions, In other words the
individual people.
Speaker 7 (36:12):
No, the individual.
For example, it says it is notthe church's position to make
the decisions about how toimplement the ideals that we are
preaching to you.
The government, a government,has to do that.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Right.
They don't take the power of,in this case, the US government
to determine who gets toimmigrate.
That's right.
Speaker 7 (36:39):
The only thing that the Catholic Church and the
Catholic bishops and the Pope issaying is here are the
Christian principles that we arebasing, that we proclaim as
true.
Now, what we're asking you todo is to recognize the truth of
those principles and, within thegovernment, to make those
(37:00):
decisions and apply them, butwhere the church is not going to
get into it, and and and dothat I think that's brilliant,
really.
Speaker 4 (37:09):
Um, it stands by in a way as an advisor, as advisors
to the government, to the people, uh, who will be interested in
it.
One of the things I appreciateabout the Catholic moral
teaching is that it says thatevery country, every nation, has
the right to regulate their ownborders.
Speaker 7 (37:30):
That is correct.
Speaker 4 (37:33):
That they're not required not to regulate borders
, but what they're asked to dois to do so.
When you regulate them, do whatis good for the most people.
Speaker 7 (37:45):
That's right In compassion.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
Mario, don't you think that there's also a real
misunderstanding of Catholicism,because it's Catholic Charities
, yes, who take care ofimmigrants, whether they are
legal or illegal.
Once they are here, that'scorrect, and then people turn
around misunderstanding this andthink that the Catholic Church
(38:08):
promotes illegal immigration?
Speaker 7 (38:10):
And I saw that this morning.
Really Well, I saw that thismorning because Cardinal Dolan
in New York was beinginterviewed in Fox News.
In Fox News and Cardinal Dolan,one of the interviewers, said
you know, isn't the CatholicChurch facilitating, you know,
the immigration I mean illegalimmigrants?
(38:31):
And Cardinal Dolan was correct.
He says look, when a personpresents themselves in front of
us, we do not ask are you acitizen?
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Are you legal?
Are you a good guy or a bad guy?
Speaker 7 (38:45):
we are.
We are there because you arehuman, right.
See, our understanding is thatyou are not primarily an
american or a mexican or any, orrussian, whatever.
You are primarily a human beingmade in the image and likeness
of god, and we have aresponsibility to the dignity of
your humanity that tells us wecannot let you starve, we have
(39:10):
to you fill the need of the onein front of you.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
In front of you, the one at hand.
Speaker 7 (39:13):
That's correct.
We're not there.
Classic Jewish concept.
Yeah, we're not there to askyou know, are you legal?
Are you illegal?
Speaker 2 (39:20):
or stuff like that.
The commandment in hand, theone in hand, the closest.
That is correct.
Okay, who do you have in frontof you?
Speaker 7 (39:27):
Well, David, you were going to say something.
Actually, David, say it whenyou come back, because we're
going to have to go away.
This is 1070 KNTH and we'll beright back.
Speaker 6 (39:39):
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Speaker 10 (41:10):
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Speaker 8 (41:13):
I think a lot of people in the media have a
difficult time admitting theyreally don't know what's going
on and therefore they make stuffup.
What they think they understandis Donald Trump, and they know
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The Answer 1033.
Speaker 14 (41:43):
The answer this land is your land.
This land is my land fromcalifornia oh interesting to the
new york island, from theredwood forest to the gulf
stream waters.
This land was made for you andme.
As I was walking that ribbon ofhighway, I saw above me that
(42:11):
endless skyway.
I saw below me that goldenvalley.
This land was made for you andme.
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Speaker 2 (42:33):
Welcome back to a show of faith on Amtent's In the
Answer.
Speaker 7 (42:36):
Sometimes I wish we could listen to an entire song.
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
But you remind me what songs I need to go look up
when I get home on YouTube orsomething.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 7 (42:46):
Okay, where should we go, Any of the three of us four
?
Speaker 5 (42:49):
of us Rabbi.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Yes.
Speaker 5 (42:51):
Hold on Was the movie you were thinking of with Robin
Williams.
Moscow on the Hudson.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
Moscow on the Hudson Brilliant movie.
Get a chance to watch it,especially with the issue of
immigration and what it means toemigrate.
Oh, actually, rudy, I had aquestion Now.
When you came over to theUnited States, it was for school
, right.
Speaker 5 (43:17):
No, well, yeah, we initially stayed with, we
initially had a tourist visa,but the United States passed a
naturalization amnesty forNicaraguan refugees.
Okay, so my mom was.
Speaker 7 (43:40):
I was going to just say Rudy.
No, I was.
Was going to say Rudy that'sexactly what happened with
Cubans.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Yeah, but, rudy, you're not Nicaragua, are you I?
Speaker 5 (43:52):
thought you were Guatemala.
Yeah, no, my mom is Nicaraguaand when I came to the States I
came with my mom, so I was ableto uh, she was naturalized.
And then she she applied for mynaturalization as well.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
Be that as it may, my question had to do with the
difficulty, the what you wentthrough to actually immigrate.
I mean, you're you're talkingyou're talking legal immigration
, because you were tourists andthen they said, okay, you can
become citizens, but what wasthe experience?
Like I mean, how old were youat the time?
Speaker 5 (44:30):
I was between the ages of 10 and 11, essentially
when I initially came over, cameover probably don't remember,
and I didn't, and I and I didn'tfinalize my naturalization
until I was 18,.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
I think All right.
So how did you find theexperience?
Are you just so young?
You just went with the flow anddid what mom and dad said, or
whatever.
Speaker 5 (44:54):
Well, the initial thing was language right, so
that was.
And I had taken English classesin Guatemala, so I knew English
, but I didn't speak it right.
I felt very out of place.
I felt I was sort of bullied alittle bit, but I was also kind
(45:17):
of a big guy, so yeah, butthat's bullying can happen when
you're born and raised in the US.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
I mean that just that doesn't.
I was just wondering what theexperience was like of
immigration.
But, you're too young.
Speaker 5 (45:32):
Yeah, honestly, it was when I had to, when I
actually had to visit theimmigration offices.
I found them a bit.
I remember being actually kindof scared.
I don't blame you.
Because I didn't know what wasgoing to happen.
You know, I was with my mom andmy dad wasn't there and we had
to pay money for lawyers and wehad to go to this office and
(45:55):
there's a lot of people I mean,and people in these places, I
mean people like they're crying,they got people taken out.
I mean, and people in theseplaces, I mean people like
they're crying, they got peopletaken out.
I mean there's a lot going onsometimes in these places right
at the USCIS offices, so it'skind of scary, honestly.
Speaker 7 (46:15):
You just don't know what's going on, and I find it
heartbreaking for me because Iam fluent in Spanish.
My work is almost 100% I wouldsay maybe 95% with Hispanics and
I am constantly running across.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
Problems with immigration.
Speaker 7 (46:39):
Immigration problems, people scared, problems with
immigration, immigrationproblems, people scared.
And so I can think abstractly,philosophically, about how to
particularize the abstract stuffthat we're talking about.
But when I see in front of me ayoung lady crying because she's
(47:03):
scared to death of theimmigration, of going back, of
going back, here's the problem.
A lot of these kids that I workwith because I work a lot with
young people these kids werebrought here when they were two
and three years old.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
They've only known the US.
Speaker 7 (47:24):
That's all they know, and they hardly speak Spanish,
some of them, and so for them tobe deported, it's just one of
those things that you go.
Where do I go?
All of my family is here.
I don't speak hardly Spanish,and that's when your your heart
just breaks because you need law, but at the same time, you have
(47:51):
this human being in front ofyou.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
Well, you're supposed to balance law with compassion,
that is correct that.
Speaker 7 (48:00):
I think that that's what the church is getting at.
You do have we do have theright as a government to
restrict immigration and tocontrol our borders.
There's no question, that's apart of the church teaching.
But the question is how far doyou open the spigot?
Where is the line drawn?
That's why I began with thescandal and you still want it
done, legally, that's correct.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
I mean you can open the spigot, this scandal, they
want it done legally.
That's correct.
You can open the spigotillegally, but they want it done
legally.
Speaker 7 (48:27):
David, anything, Hello David.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
David, you probably ought to go help somebody, but
all right, no, I'm here, sorry,Okay, sorry about that.
Speaker 7 (48:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (48:42):
One of the things I wanted to mention was, just very
briefly, another parable ofJesus, and here's the quotation
where Jesus is responding.
He says I was a stranger andyou took me in.
And Jesus?
What happens in that parable isthat Jesus is so closely
identified with the alien, withthe stranger, that to take in
(49:06):
the alien is to providesustenance for Jesus himself.
That's right he's really closeproblem is that we, we don't
understand the language ofrights and and what is a human
right and what is a right underthe american government?
(49:29):
Right, so right, uh, so so it's,it's basic to human life to say
food and shelter and maybeclothing and health care, those
kind of things.
And yet how does that workwithin the nation?
How does that work?
So this is what I see what'shappening so brilliantly with
(49:50):
Catholic Charities and othergroups as well, where they're
providing for these human beingsbasic human rights the right to
be warm on a cold night, theright to have food when your
belly is empty, those kind ofthings.
Those things are human rightsand not necessarily rights that
(50:12):
are given by the American orrecognized by the American
government.
But to do all this is to do sorecognizing that okay, when
we've had a broken system for solong, you have to pay for
things that are broken.
It has cost a lot of money.
(50:33):
No nation has to receive thisis in the document you sent us
no nation has to receive so manyimmigrants that it puts their
nation itself in jeopardyeconomically.
Speaker 7 (50:48):
Otherwise, so that's correct.
Speaker 4 (50:50):
The fact that we've had a broken system for so long
means that this is going to costus an enormous amount of money
to fix it.
Speaker 7 (51:01):
That is correct, because what's happened is that
now we're reacting to an awfulsituation which Biden brought
about by opening the floodgates.
Speaker 2 (51:12):
I don't think we've seen part of the problem,
because I think part of theproblem is who came across the
border illegally and whatthey're going to do whenever
they do it.
Now that they're here and I'mtalking about terrorists being
led into the United States Yep,it's going to be interesting to
see.
Speaker 7 (51:33):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (51:34):
Stuart, well, I was just going to say we've only got
a few minutes left, butrecently I know the Pope has had
health problems.
Yes, and just quickly.
Can you talk about that?
Speaker 7 (51:45):
the the reports that we're getting out of rome is
that the pope is in serious,serious condition.
His doctors say he's not neardeath.
That's what the doctors havebeen saying, but it is very
serious that he's got doublepneumonia and there's stuff
(52:08):
going on in the background that,if he dies, they've already
starting to prepare for theelection of a new pope.
Right so, um, right noweverybody's just waiting on pins
and needles.
We just don't know.
Speaker 2 (52:25):
Mario remind me how old the Pope is 88.
Wow, Okay.
Speaker 7 (52:29):
He's 88 with double pneumonia.
You know so that.
Speaker 4 (52:35):
My recollection is that he had had some very
significant lung problems earlyin life.
Speaker 7 (52:45):
He's missing one half of one lung.
Oh, so you know, it could goeither way in the next few days
and I sort of think that, evenif he gets out of this, that he
will probably I mean, I can'tpredict it, but I think he would
(53:07):
give a lot of thought to resign, right, because to keep up as a
pope at 88 years old withgetting these Attacks?
Speaker 2 (53:18):
or whatever you want to call them.
Speaker 7 (53:19):
Yeah, that's not going to be.
I don't think he can do it.
So anyway, any of you out therejust keep him in your prayers.
Speaker 4 (53:29):
Thank you, definitely , yeah, definitely Gosh.
Speaker 7 (53:35):
Who's in charge next week?
We only have a minute left.
Speaker 4 (53:39):
I think I am in charge.
Next week I am going to usurpresponsibility.
Speaker 7 (53:46):
Is that your topic?
Speaker 4 (53:50):
I'm going to usurpation.
Am I for it or against it?
I like that.
Speaker 7 (53:59):
Well, it'll be a surprise to see what you come up
with, David.
Speaker 4 (54:02):
It'll be, yeah, it'll be a surprise to both of us.
Speaker 7 (54:04):
To both of us you SERP, I SERP, we all SERP, we
all SERP.
Rudy, thank you for being herefrom Brazil.
Have a great trip back toGuatemala.
Speaker 5 (54:13):
Thank you guys.
Have a great night you too.
Speaker 7 (54:16):
Okay, then we will be back next week with David being
in charge.
So you've been listening to theshow of faith here on 1070 KNTH
.
Please keep the Pope in yourprayers, but keep us in your
prayers, and we'll see you nextweek.
Speaker 10 (54:32):
Find us at am1070theanswercom.
Download our apps.
Stream us 24-7.
Knth and K277DE-FM Houston.
Thank you.
There's battle lines beingdrawn.
Nobody's right if everybody'swrong.
Young people speak in theirminds, are getting so much
(00:43):
resistance From behind Everytime we stop.
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look what's goingdown.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Welcome to A Show of Faith where a professor, priest,
millennial and rabbi discusstheology, philosophy, morality
and ethics and anything else ofinterest in religion.
If you have any response to ourtopics or any comments
regarding what we say, we wouldlove to hear from you.
But we have a brand new emailaddress.
It's ashowoffaith1070 atgmailcom.
(01:18):
Write that down and use it.
Ashowoffaith1070 at gmailcom.
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You can hear our shows againand again by listening.
Pretty much anywhere podcastsare heard.
Our priest is Fr Mario Arroyo,retired pastor of St Cyril of
(01:38):
Alexandria in the 10,000 blockof Westheimer.
Hello, that was deep.
Our professor David Capes isour Baptist minister, the
director of academic programmingfor the Lanier Theological
Library.
You did well, rabbi.
I try my best.
Rudy Kong is our millennialsystems engineer and has his
(02:00):
master's degree in theology fromthe University of St Thomas.
I am Rabbi Stuart Federo.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Howdy howdy.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Hey, there you are.
I am Stuart Federo, retiredRabbi Emeritus of Congregation
Sha'ar HaShalom, the Clear Lakearea of Houston, Texas.
Nikki and Miranda are our boardoperators and together, Nikki
and Miranda help us soundfantastic.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
Okay, yes, hey, rudy, where are you now?
Okay?
Speaker 5 (02:27):
Hey, rudy, where are you now?
I am still in Brazil, but wefly back tomorrow, so I'll be
taking the next week's call fromGuatemala oh home again.
Speaker 7 (02:41):
Jeez, yes, sir.
Well, it is my turn.
Uh, I am the show director.
This is father mario, and, um,what we're dealing with today, I
would like to deal with is thewhole topic of immigration.
Um, because of course it is somuch in the news right now and I
(03:05):
would like to get into, youknow, the morality of sanctuary
cities and the morality ofdeportations, the morality of
Notice what I keep saying, Ikeep on talking about the
morality.
That's what it is, yeah, that'swhat it is.
So here's the context that Iwould like to establish what was
(03:27):
happening right now, that'swhat it is by the irresponsible
understanding of the border theUS-Mexico border especially, but
(03:50):
also the Canadian by Joe Biden,because Biden let it go to the
point that nobody I meaneverybody was coming in.
Millions of people I think Iheard that, five or six million
people came in.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Wouldn't you say that their radical morality of the
Democratic Party is thereshouldn't be borders anywhere.
Everybody should be free to goanywhere they want, whenever
they want no matter who they are, what they stand for what they
act.
That is correct.
Speaker 7 (04:23):
No matter who they are, what they stand for, what
they act.
That is correct, yes, but youknow the reason?
I think that they thought thatthey were doing that is because
they thought the Democratsthought that all the Hispanics
that were being let in weregoing to be voting.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Democrats, oh, not just the Democrats, not just the
Hispanic community, butimmigrants in general.
Speaker 7 (04:46):
Immigrants in general .
And guess what?
This year they didn't.
Half of the Hispanics voted forTrump.
So here's where I'd like tostart, because the ultimate
thing right tonight is lookfolks, I'm a Catholic priest.
Thing right tonight is lookfolks, I'm a Catholic priest and
I've tried to do my best tounderstand the Catholic moral
(05:11):
understanding of the issues ofimmigration.
Now, obviously, there's goingto be a contrast between the
Catholic understanding ofimmigration and the American,
and any country has its ownunderstanding of immigration.
But we're in the United States,so we're going to talk about
(05:33):
the United States' understandingof immigration.
Obviously, we're going to betalking about Trump's attitude
and Biden's attitude andcomparing them.
My goal tonight is not to sayone is right and one is wrong,
but to just compare them.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
And to look at it through our moral, ethical,
religious viewpoints.
Speaker 7 (05:53):
That is correct, David and Rudy.
Are you guys clear about whatwe're doing?
Speaker 4 (06:01):
No, I think it's a great topic.
It's an important topic.
I don't think we're going tofind the clarity that we like to
find in religion, that we'regoing to find with what's
happening.
Well, the national question ofclarity is going to be
equivalent to any particularreligious form of it.
Speaker 7 (06:22):
Yeah, I don't think we're going to find clarity,
because even the Catholiccommunity and even Catholic
bishops are all drawing the lineat different places.
And it's very interestingbecause I have, in the last few
years, been a great fan of aconcept that um, that I I find
(06:49):
it constantly um important to tounderstand that that it's I'm
tired.
You can tell, yeah, um, but Ithink the the concept that I
think we're going to find iswhat's called the scandal of
particularity.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
The scandal of particularity.
Speaker 7 (07:10):
Yes, Now let me explain.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
What in particular?
Speaker 7 (07:12):
No, let me explain the scandal of particularity and
it's how it's going to beapplied to the topic that we
have at hand.
Okay, the word scandal, firstof all, is not to be understood
as taking an offense, you know,like, oh my God, I'm scandalized
.
You know the word scandal and,david, you can probably give me
(07:34):
a better understanding of this,but it means somewhat of a
stumbling block that you're,you're doing something,
something that is being proposedis giving you pause, and it's
not easy.
You're not swallowing it easily.
Am I correct in this?
Speaker 4 (07:51):
Yeah, yeah.
Scandal on is like a stumblingblock right.
Okay, something that causessomebody else to stumble.
Speaker 7 (07:58):
Okay, so it's not going down easy.
Okay, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
It's like it's not going down easy.
Speaker 7 (08:04):
Okay, yeah.
So the scandal, understand thatconcept.
Okay, that scandal is not anoffense, but it's a stumbling
block.
The scandal of particularity iswhen you have a general
principle of any kind, okay, andyou have to make a decision as
to where to bring it intoactuality, whether point A, b, c
(08:28):
, d, e, f, g, all the differentpoints that there are.
No matter what you decide,someone's going to be
scandalized, right?
No matter what you decide, okay, that's called the scandal of
particularity, okay, okay.
So I know that this is going tobe part of the answer here.
(08:49):
There is no way to get aroundit.
That is going to be.
The issue of immigration isgoing to hit that scandal of
particularity.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
And there may not be any kind of resolution.
Speaker 7 (09:02):
No, there may not be.
There may not be.
So, Rudy, you want to jump inand say anything about what I've
been saying?
Speaker 5 (09:08):
No, no, I think you should continue because I have a
few thoughts, but go ahead andfinish, we'll get to them.
Speaker 7 (09:18):
Okay.
Okay, the first topic that Iwould like to Now remember folks
, my specialty as opposed toMonsignor David and His Highness
Stuart and his lowlinessbecause he's just a kid, yeah,
(09:39):
he is so my specialty is what'scalled philosophical theology.
Now, what is philosophicaltheology?
I begin to deal with problemsfirst and foremost from the
philosophical perspective.
If you were dealing with, youknow altitude I begin dealing
(10:03):
with, begin to dealing with aproblem from 50,000 feet and
then come down and get closer.
That, what?
What I mean by that is sayingthat the very first thing, that
and I sent both all three of youan article it's just a short
thing on the church, catholicchurches approach to immigration
(10:24):
.
But what I find the mostinteresting's approach to
immigration.
But what I find the mostinteresting to begin to talk
about is the presumption and thedifference in presumptions
between governments and thechurch, because the governments
are saying our nation, our stuff, and we take care of our people
(10:49):
first, and then the rest of thepeople can come afterwards.
But they're not a priority.
The priority is with the peopleof our nation.
Okay, the Catholicunderstanding and you guys read
(11:10):
it in there that the earth as awhole belongs to all humankind,
have a certain amount of a rightto migrate if it becomes
intolerable to live where theyare living, and that the
(11:33):
countries who are receiving themneed to do a balancing act,
because to deny migration wouldbe to deny a human right.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
And you're saying that, that right.
Speaker 7 (11:48):
That right is.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Is that all land belongs to them.
Speaker 7 (11:51):
No, all land.
See this is where it gets alittle thorny that the Resources
of the earth as a whole.
Remember, when you're dealingwith a catholic church, you're
dealing with an institution thatthinks globally.
No, of course.
Ok, so the question is Godcreated the earth.
(12:13):
Whom are the resources of theearth for?
And the resources of the earthare for humankind, okay, and so
the church begins byunderstanding that we can limit,
but you cannot ultimately denyhuman beings a the right to have
(12:38):
food, the right to have lodging, because that's sustenance,
that's protection that iscorrect.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
But that, but that becomes the moral endeavor for
them to be able to go where theyneed to go in order to be able
to eat and survive.
Yes, not just the fact that allresources belong to them, but
they have the right, they don'tbelong to them.
Speaker 7 (12:57):
They belong to all of us.
But that it would include them.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Yes, that would include them.
So the rationalization forpeople anybody being able to
emigrate where they want to, isthat all resources belong to
them or because of theirpersonal need to survive and to
eat and to be protected, etc.
Okay, Seems to me like it wouldbe more the latter than the
(13:22):
former, Rudy.
It seems to me like it would bemore the latter than the former
.
Speaker 5 (13:29):
Rudy, I think it has.
I think it's better to, in myopinion, look at it more of a
sort of stewardship right forand I would extend it more to
the entire universe really, butin our current time it's the
Earth, but it's also properstewardship of the Earth and its
(13:50):
resources for the reduction ofhuman suffering as a whole.
Speaker 7 (13:56):
I think that's sort of the way I see it.
Yeah, you put it very, verywell.
David, do you want to come inand chime in on?
Speaker 4 (14:04):
that, yeah, I mean, I think part of the scandal of
particularity is that we're notgoing to be able to agree on all
these things indeed, but thewhole human story, I mean
Humanity 101, is one ofmigration and movement of people
.
Speaker 7 (14:22):
That's correct.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
I mean, throughout history and even prehistory,
people have been moving around.
There haven't been nations withborders.
The whole phenomenon of nationsis really a modern phenomenon.
It's not more than 400 or 500years old, depending upon who
(14:43):
you're looking to, than four orfive hundred years old,
depending upon who you'relooking to.
But but the but.
Yeah, there were countries.
Yeah, there were people groups.
Yeah, there were ethnic groups,but borders were were a little
bit fluid and such and so thehuman story is one of of
immigration and migrationmovement, and very often that
movement has to do withsustaining life, with fleeing
(15:04):
something, and very often thatmovement has to do with
sustaining life, with fleeingsomething.
Fleeing bad weather, you know,and the big ice ages.
People move south right inorder to try to find a better
life and be able to survive, andthe same thing with food and
such.
So I think these are bigstories.
These aren't small stories.
Speaker 7 (15:25):
These aren't just what's happening in my day.
That's why I brought up thescandal of particularity,
because it's going to get intothis.
Speaker 10 (15:30):
But it's 1070.
Speaker 7 (15:31):
We're now going to a break and we'll be right back.
Speaker 10 (15:34):
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Welcome back to A Show of Faithon M107.
The Answer.
Speaker 7 (18:10):
So you know, as we were talking, stuart and I were
talking, given where we'retalking about, how would you,
each one of us, how would youparticularize both the idea of
the Earth being for allhumankind?
And here's the other issue isthat property is not an absolute
(18:36):
right.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
I don't know what you mean by that.
Speaker 7 (18:40):
In other words, if you, for example, have a lot of
food and somebody is starving,just because the food belongs to
you doesn't mean that you havea right to withhold it from them
.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
See, I'm glad I asked , because when you say property,
I think my house, not my food.
Speaker 7 (18:56):
No, no, I'm talking about any kind of medicine, any
kind of property.
Ok, so property in and ofitself, because that's what
we're questioning.
Property in and of itself isnot an absolute right.
You don't have the right.
For example, we even we evenrecognize it when it comes to
price gouging.
We even recognize it.
When it comes to price gouging.
(19:18):
Okay, you may have somethingthat somebody needs in an
emergency, but there's a law.
It says you can't gouge them forit, but it's yours, and so
notice we're saying it's yours,but there's something wrong with
making it an absolute rightthat you can do whatever the
(19:39):
hell you want with it.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Well, you can do whatever you want with it, but
you still have to be reasonableabout it.
Speaker 7 (19:44):
Well, mainly because I'm still selling it.
I just can't sell it at aninflated price to make more
money off of your situation, Iknow, but see, you're already
recognizing that the right, ofyour right to ownership is not
absolute.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
You cannot decide the only time it would become not
absolute is if the governmentfeels it has the right to take
it from me.
Speaker 7 (20:11):
But on what grounds is the government doing that?
They're not.
No, but if there's a lawagainst price they can tell me I
can sell it.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
They can they start over?
I can sell it.
I can't gouge the price, okay,but they can say that my price
is too high and I have to lowerit.
But I'm still taking myposition and selling it.
Speaker 7 (20:32):
Yes but notice, if you had, you're not
understanding the absolute, butit's not absolute.
That's exactly what I'm saying.
That's not what I meant theright to ownership.
If you had an absolute right toownership, you could say I want
to sell it for whatever.
(20:52):
I want to sell it and thegovernment shouldn't tell me
anything about it.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
It's absolutely mine.
Okay, in in that sense thatmakes it not absolute.
Speaker 4 (21:03):
That's correct, okay david stewart, I mean david, and
yeah I, you know, I don't knowenough about property law to say
in a way I mean, would he berequired to sell it at all?
I mean, let mean, let's saysomething was needed, he had it.
Let's say he can't gouge theprice for it, but he's not,
(21:24):
would he be required to sell it?
Speaker 7 (21:26):
Well, would he?
For example?
Speaker 4 (21:29):
Again, I don't know property law no.
Speaker 7 (21:30):
but let's not talk about property law and actual
law.
We can, but there's still amoral, moral issue, but let me
give you another example.
Uh, you own your house and afreeway's coming through and the
government says we're takingyour house uh, eminent, eminent
domain.
Why do they take it for thecommon good?
(21:51):
Notice your right to that houseis not absolute right right
property.
Yes, that's true now all I'msaying is we need to begin to to
ask the question, because weall law recognizes that there
are situations in which you'relimited in terms of your
(22:13):
property.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
It is not absolute you know, know that when
Jefferson developed the life,liberty and pursuit of happiness
, his pursuit of property, hisproperty.
Speaker 7 (22:26):
Originally it was pursuit of property that's right
, that's right, but I think thevery first thing is for us to
understand that the right ofproperty Is not absolute.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Is not absolute In a very absolute sense.
It is not absolute, Rudy.
Speaker 5 (22:43):
Well, I can tell you we absolutely didn't create the
earth ourselves.
So I mean, I kind of fall backto this notion of stewardship,
right, and as a Catholic right,and I think about living an
authentically Catholic life.
If I have more and I see afellow human down the road
(23:08):
that's starving, then I amcompelled for that same love of
that imago Dei right, thatvision, that shared image and
likeness of God that I see in mybrother and sister, to make
sure that they aren't suffering.
Right, if it's within my power,my capacity, to affect that in
(23:31):
any way, right, and if you thinkabout that right, and if our
entire society, entire society,um, thought like that, then, man
, this would really be.
I'm kind of reminded of thisbook.
Uh, did you guys ever ever reada Thomas Moore's a utopia?
Speaker 7 (23:48):
No, I haven't read it .
Speaker 5 (23:51):
Oh, wow, it's it.
it kind of man I can't reallybut it, it, it kind of paints
this culture and this societythat sort of inverses the value
of what Thomas More sort ofdepicts as the current sort of
power plays at the time.
For example, in this land theyput prisoners in shackles of
(24:17):
gold, right where in medievalEurope gold is being extracted
from the Americas and it's veryvalued.
So if we had our moral compassand hierarchy properly aligned
then I mean, if you ask me,could we end suffering tomorrow?
Yeah, starvation tomorrow andhunger tomorrow yeah.
(24:38):
If we used all of our defensebudget that we have for all the
wars and all the mechanisms ofdestruction that we have, we'd
have better health care?
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Yes, we would, but that's a discussion about
distribution, not necessarilypossession.
But I quickly because we'relate.
But even the idea of having tohelp someone else who is in need
is also not absolute.
I don't have to make myselfdirt poor by taking all that I
(25:08):
have and giving it away?
Speaker 7 (25:09):
No, you do not.
You do not.
But where is the particularline Right?
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Where I said it and you said it and he says it and
they said it.
Speaker 7 (25:15):
That's a $50,000 question line, right where I
said it and you said it, he saysthat they said it's fifty
thousand dollar question andthis is 1070 k and th and we'll
be right back am 1070 the answer?
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Speaker 9 (25:58):
My question is do you feel that basically most people
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Speaker 11 (26:03):
Is human nature selfish is one question, and are
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Human nature morally stinks.
Speaker 9 (26:11):
Day to day.
I think people tend to kind ofrevert inward and you kind of
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I mean, how do you become notso cynical all the time?
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Speaker 2 (28:16):
Welcome back to A Show of Faith on AM 1070, the
Answer.
Speaker 7 (28:20):
You know, rudy, what I was thinking about when you
were talking about.
You know your understandings ofthe Christian understanding of
stewardship.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Well, that's a T.
It's stewardship Well, that's a.
Speaker 7 (28:38):
T, it's Stuart, the whole issue that the Pope brings
up, and that is the issue ofthe parable that Jesus gives
about the rich man and Lazarus,that Lazarus was dying and
starving to death and the richman didn't even take notice of
him.
And of course we are Christians, and so that already gives us a
(29:03):
very strong understanding thatour property is not absolutely
ours, that we have aresponsibility for all humankind
.
Speaker 5 (29:13):
Right, right, and I think that's sort of the
fundamental thing, right it is.
And back to your point, Father.
You talk about particularity.
I mean it applies to everything, right, Because this
particularity of ideologies,which is the world that we live
in, too, right, it's just, it'sso fragmented, right?
(29:34):
So when we try to make a sortof all catch-all in this example
, right, immigration policy, itjust doesn't work.
It just doesn't work foreverybody, and that's just the
reality.
Some people really think, andthere's arguments, right, for
having open borders and theeconomic statuses and Americans
(29:55):
are having less babies, and weneed the people, and you know,
and okay, there's all that, sure.
But then you talk about theexploitation, the child
trafficking, the pedophilia, allthese other things that come
with the immigration, right?
So it's kind of like you'rekind of damned if you do and
damned if you don't, right?
Speaker 7 (30:13):
That's why one of the points that I wanted to Go
ahead.
Speaker 5 (30:17):
Go ahead.
Well, it's just one of thepoints that I think a lot of
people sidestep, too, is part ofthe responsible citizenship,
right, and being a good stewardis also being a good steward
where I am locally right.
So when I think about Guatemalaor Brazil, right, it's what am
(30:39):
I doing locally in my owncountry?
Right, to help people here, tohelp policies here that don't
cause these mass migrations intothe United States?
Right, and I think that's a lotof the conversation that people
aren't having.
I mean, it doesn't stop thereality of what we have, right,
(31:00):
which is millions of peopletrying to cross the border right
now, but people think thatthey're going to the United
States to live this wonderfullife, and let me tell you, it's
hard work over there.
It's not easy, right.
I think there's a lot ofmisconceptions, too, with that
entire.
I don't know this kind ofstigma of the states and I don't
(31:22):
mean to say that it's not a lot.
There's not a lot moreopportunity in the United States
.
It's just it's not all daisiesand roses like people painted.
It's a lot of hard work andit's suffering and you have to
cross this desert and it's it'sdeath and it's just horrible.
Speaker 7 (31:42):
I once saw a video on YouTube about a Cuban guy who
came to the United States and hewas thinking that it was going
to be great.
You know all kinds of propertyand stuff like that.
And he says he was making akind of a stinging video saying
I feel more imprisoned herebecause I have to get up in the
morning, I have a job, I have togo this, I have to go do this
(32:05):
and in cuba you can pre, you'reliving a fairly low life in
terms of benefits or anythinglike that no food, very little
food and stuff like that.
But then you make the, youidealize the United States.
And when he said, man, this is,I had a lot more.
I was not as happy in terms ofmaterial wealth, but I had a lot
(32:28):
more relaxing and freedom inCuba.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
There's a wonderful movie with Robin Williams about
immigration to the United States.
He plays someone who's probablyRussian, slavic, whatever, and
the trials and tribulations ofimmigration and it's brilliant
and moving and it's a greatmovie.
Robin Williams I can't rememberthe name of the movie- David,
(32:53):
do you have any comments onanything?
Speaker 4 (32:56):
Yeah, gosh, a whole lot A few years ago.
Speaking of movies, there was amovie a few years ago that was
kind of interesting because itportrayed a cataclysmic thing
that was happening to the earth,and that is there was this
polar vortex coming down fromthe north and it made the
(33:17):
northern part of our country,this country, uninhabitable, so
that in order for people tosurvive, it was kind of like the
reverse of what's going ontoday.
Everybody had to pour intomexico, so there was.
It was just this reallyinteresting kind of reverse of
what we see happening today, butit was tough.
(33:38):
And so the question of theright to migrate.
Do we have the right to migratein order to sustain life, in
order to provide for people?
Speaker 7 (33:50):
if there were.
And Rudy mentioned it.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
Yeah, the world community does have a duty to
countries that are experiencingfamines and disasters and wars,
and it's best and it's moreeconomical to provide for people
where they are and to elevatetheir lives where they are than
(34:15):
it is for them to come tomigrate and to move.
That's always dodgy, that'salways difficult, it's dangerous
on so many levels, and so wehave to be kind of balancing as
a world community betweenmigration issues but also our
duty to those countries whereyou know life is much, much more
(34:38):
difficult and dangerous.
Speaker 7 (34:40):
But you know, what's interesting is that if you look
at the Kamala Harris tried to dothis, but she went down to look
at the root causes, you know,of immigration what you find is
a lot of corruption, even muchmore corruption than we have
here and more blatant and moreblatant.
(35:03):
And you have the cartels and youhave all kinds of stuff.
So, in terms of trying to fixthe problems of another nation
so we can help people remainwhere they are, that's not so
easy because you can't doanything about it.
You have to take your militaryinto another nation, and we're
(35:24):
facing that right now with thecartels in Mexico.
You know, yeah, exactly, andthat's where Trump is using
economic pressure points to tryand bring that about, economic
pressure points to try and bringthat about.
So, and one of the things I didwant to say is that, you know,
it's very one of the things thatI like about being Catholic is
(35:48):
this that the Catholic Church,in this and in other topics, we
give you the moral high ground,the moral principles, but the
Catholic Church is never sayingthat it itself makes the
decision, the particulardecisions.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Define particular decisions, In other words the
individual people.
Speaker 7 (36:12):
No, the individual.
For example, it says it is notthe church's position to make
the decisions about how toimplement the ideals that we are
preaching to you.
The government, a government,has to do that.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Right.
They don't take the power of,in this case, the US government
to determine who gets toimmigrate.
That's right.
Speaker 7 (36:39):
The only thing that the Catholic Church and the
Catholic bishops and the Pope issaying is here are the
Christian principles that we arebasing, that we proclaim as
true.
Now, what we're asking you todo is to recognize the truth of
those principles and, within thegovernment, to make those
(37:00):
decisions and apply them, butwhere the church is not going to
get into it, and and and dothat I think that's brilliant,
really.
Speaker 4 (37:09):
Um, it stands by in a way as an advisor, as advisors
to the government, to the people, uh, who will be interested in
it.
One of the things I appreciateabout the Catholic moral
teaching is that it says thatevery country, every nation, has
the right to regulate their ownborders.
Speaker 7 (37:30):
That is correct.
Speaker 4 (37:33):
That they're not required not to regulate borders
, but what they're asked to dois to do so.
When you regulate them, do whatis good for the most people.
Speaker 7 (37:45):
That's right In compassion.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
Mario, don't you think that there's also a real
misunderstanding of Catholicism,because it's Catholic Charities
, yes, who take care ofimmigrants, whether they are
legal or illegal.
Once they are here, that'scorrect, and then people turn
around misunderstanding this andthink that the Catholic Church
(38:08):
promotes illegal immigration?
Speaker 7 (38:10):
And I saw that this morning.
Really Well, I saw that thismorning because Cardinal Dolan
in New York was beinginterviewed in Fox News.
In Fox News and Cardinal Dolan,one of the interviewers, said
you know, isn't the CatholicChurch facilitating, you know,
the immigration I mean illegalimmigrants?
(38:31):
And Cardinal Dolan was correct.
He says look, when a personpresents themselves in front of
us, we do not ask are you acitizen?
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Are you legal?
Are you a good guy or a bad guy?
Speaker 7 (38:45):
we are.
We are there because you arehuman, right.
See, our understanding is thatyou are not primarily an
american or a mexican or any, orrussian, whatever.
You are primarily a human beingmade in the image and likeness
of god, and we have aresponsibility to the dignity of
your humanity that tells us wecannot let you starve, we have
(39:10):
to you fill the need of the onein front of you.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
In front of you, the one at hand.
Speaker 7 (39:13):
That's correct.
We're not there.
Classic Jewish concept.
Yeah, we're not there to askyou know, are you legal?
Are you illegal?
Speaker 2 (39:20):
or stuff like that.
The commandment in hand, theone in hand, the closest.
That is correct.
Okay, who do you have in frontof you?
Speaker 7 (39:27):
Well, David, you were going to say something.
Actually, David, say it whenyou come back, because we're
going to have to go away.
This is 1070 KNTH and we'll beright back.
Speaker 6 (39:39):
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Speaker 10 (41:10):
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Speaker 8 (41:13):
I think a lot of people in the media have a
difficult time admitting theyreally don't know what's going
on and therefore they make stuffup.
What they think they understandis Donald Trump, and they know
that some in their audience loveto hate on Trump, so they serve
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The Answer 1033.
Speaker 14 (41:43):
The answer this land is your land.
This land is my land fromcalifornia oh interesting to the
new york island, from theredwood forest to the gulf
stream waters.
This land was made for you andme.
As I was walking that ribbon ofhighway, I saw above me that
(42:11):
endless skyway.
I saw below me that goldenvalley.
This land was made for you andme.
I've roamed and rambled and Ifollowed my footsteps to the
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Speaker 2 (42:33):
Welcome back to a show of faith on Amtent's In the
Answer.
Speaker 7 (42:36):
Sometimes I wish we could listen to an entire song.
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
But you remind me what songs I need to go look up
when I get home on YouTube orsomething.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 7 (42:46):
Okay, where should we go, Any of the three of us four
?
Speaker 5 (42:49):
of us Rabbi.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Yes.
Speaker 5 (42:51):
Hold on Was the movie you were thinking of with Robin
Williams.
Moscow on the Hudson.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
Moscow on the Hudson Brilliant movie.
Get a chance to watch it,especially with the issue of
immigration and what it means toemigrate.
Oh, actually, rudy, I had aquestion Now.
When you came over to theUnited States, it was for school
, right.
Speaker 5 (43:17):
No, well, yeah, we initially stayed with, we
initially had a tourist visa,but the United States passed a
naturalization amnesty forNicaraguan refugees.
Okay, so my mom was.
Speaker 7 (43:40):
I was going to just say Rudy.
No, I was.
Was going to say Rudy that'sexactly what happened with
Cubans.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Yeah, but, rudy, you're not Nicaragua, are you I?
Speaker 5 (43:52):
thought you were Guatemala.
Yeah, no, my mom is Nicaraguaand when I came to the States I
came with my mom, so I was ableto uh, she was naturalized.
And then she she applied for mynaturalization as well.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
Be that as it may, my question had to do with the
difficulty, the what you wentthrough to actually immigrate.
I mean, you're you're talkingyou're talking legal immigration
, because you were tourists andthen they said, okay, you can
become citizens, but what wasthe experience?
Like I mean, how old were youat the time?
Speaker 5 (44:30):
I was between the ages of 10 and 11, essentially
when I initially came over, cameover probably don't remember,
and I didn't, and I and I didn'tfinalize my naturalization
until I was 18,.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
I think All right.
So how did you find theexperience?
Are you just so young?
You just went with the flow anddid what mom and dad said, or
whatever.
Speaker 5 (44:54):
Well, the initial thing was language right, so
that was.
And I had taken English classesin Guatemala, so I knew English
, but I didn't speak it right.
I felt very out of place.
I felt I was sort of bullied alittle bit, but I was also kind
(45:17):
of a big guy, so yeah, butthat's bullying can happen when
you're born and raised in the US.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
I mean that just that doesn't.
I was just wondering what theexperience was like of
immigration.
But, you're too young.
Speaker 5 (45:32):
Yeah, honestly, it was when I had to, when I
actually had to visit theimmigration offices.
I found them a bit.
I remember being actually kindof scared.
I don't blame you.
Because I didn't know what wasgoing to happen.
You know, I was with my mom andmy dad wasn't there and we had
to pay money for lawyers and wehad to go to this office and
(45:55):
there's a lot of people I mean,and people in these places, I
mean people like they're crying,they got people taken out.
I mean, and people in theseplaces, I mean people like
they're crying, they got peopletaken out.
I mean there's a lot going onsometimes in these places right
at the USCIS offices, so it'skind of scary, honestly.
Speaker 7 (46:15):
You just don't know what's going on, and I find it
heartbreaking for me because Iam fluent in Spanish.
My work is almost 100% I wouldsay maybe 95% with Hispanics and
I am constantly running across.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
Problems with immigration.
Speaker 7 (46:39):
Immigration problems, people scared, problems with
immigration, immigrationproblems, people scared.
And so I can think abstractly,philosophically, about how to
particularize the abstract stuffthat we're talking about.
But when I see in front of me ayoung lady crying because she's
(47:03):
scared to death of theimmigration, of going back, of
going back, here's the problem.
A lot of these kids that I workwith because I work a lot with
young people these kids werebrought here when they were two
and three years old.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
They've only known the US.
Speaker 7 (47:24):
That's all they know, and they hardly speak Spanish,
some of them, and so for them tobe deported, it's just one of
those things that you go.
Where do I go?
All of my family is here.
I don't speak hardly Spanish,and that's when your your heart
just breaks because you need law, but at the same time, you have
(47:51):
this human being in front ofyou.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
Well, you're supposed to balance law with compassion,
that is correct that.
Speaker 7 (48:00):
I think that that's what the church is getting at.
You do have we do have theright as a government to
restrict immigration and tocontrol our borders.
There's no question, that's apart of the church teaching.
But the question is how far doyou open the spigot?
Where is the line drawn?
That's why I began with thescandal and you still want it
done, legally, that's correct.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
I mean you can open the spigot, this scandal, they
want it done legally.
That's correct.
You can open the spigotillegally, but they want it done
legally.
Speaker 7 (48:27):
David, anything, Hello David.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
David, you probably ought to go help somebody, but
all right, no, I'm here, sorry,Okay, sorry about that.
Speaker 7 (48:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (48:42):
One of the things I wanted to mention was, just very
briefly, another parable ofJesus, and here's the quotation
where Jesus is responding.
He says I was a stranger andyou took me in.
And Jesus?
What happens in that parable isthat Jesus is so closely
identified with the alien, withthe stranger, that to take in
(49:06):
the alien is to providesustenance for Jesus himself.
That's right he's really closeproblem is that we, we don't
understand the language ofrights and and what is a human
right and what is a right underthe american government?
(49:29):
Right, so right, uh, so so it's,it's basic to human life to say
food and shelter and maybeclothing and health care, those
kind of things.
And yet how does that workwithin the nation?
How does that work?
So this is what I see what'shappening so brilliantly with
(49:50):
Catholic Charities and othergroups as well, where they're
providing for these human beingsbasic human rights the right to
be warm on a cold night, theright to have food when your
belly is empty, those kind ofthings.
Those things are human rightsand not necessarily rights that
(50:12):
are given by the American orrecognized by the American
government.
But to do all this is to do sorecognizing that okay, when
we've had a broken system for solong, you have to pay for
things that are broken.
It has cost a lot of money.
(50:33):
No nation has to receive thisis in the document you sent us
no nation has to receive so manyimmigrants that it puts their
nation itself in jeopardyeconomically.
Speaker 7 (50:48):
Otherwise, so that's correct.
Speaker 4 (50:50):
The fact that we've had a broken system for so long
means that this is going to costus an enormous amount of money
to fix it.
Speaker 7 (51:01):
That is correct, because what's happened is that
now we're reacting to an awfulsituation which Biden brought
about by opening the floodgates.
Speaker 2 (51:12):
I don't think we've seen part of the problem,
because I think part of theproblem is who came across the
border illegally and whatthey're going to do whenever
they do it.
Now that they're here and I'mtalking about terrorists being
led into the United States Yep,it's going to be interesting to
see.
Speaker 7 (51:33):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (51:34):
Stuart, well, I was just going to say we've only got
a few minutes left, butrecently I know the Pope has had
health problems.
Yes, and just quickly.
Can you talk about that?
Speaker 7 (51:45):
the the reports that we're getting out of rome is
that the pope is in serious,serious condition.
His doctors say he's not neardeath.
That's what the doctors havebeen saying, but it is very
serious that he's got doublepneumonia and there's stuff
(52:08):
going on in the background that,if he dies, they've already
starting to prepare for theelection of a new pope.
Right so, um, right noweverybody's just waiting on pins
and needles.
We just don't know.
Speaker 2 (52:25):
Mario remind me how old the Pope is 88.
Wow, Okay.
Speaker 7 (52:29):
He's 88 with double pneumonia.
You know so that.
Speaker 4 (52:35):
My recollection is that he had had some very
significant lung problems earlyin life.
Speaker 7 (52:45):
He's missing one half of one lung.
Oh, so you know, it could goeither way in the next few days
and I sort of think that, evenif he gets out of this, that he
will probably I mean, I can'tpredict it, but I think he would
(53:07):
give a lot of thought to resign, right, because to keep up as a
pope at 88 years old withgetting these Attacks?
Speaker 2 (53:18):
or whatever you want to call them.
Speaker 7 (53:19):
Yeah, that's not going to be.
I don't think he can do it.
So anyway, any of you out therejust keep him in your prayers.
Speaker 4 (53:29):
Thank you, definitely , yeah, definitely Gosh.
Speaker 7 (53:35):
Who's in charge next week?
We only have a minute left.
Speaker 4 (53:39):
I think I am in charge.
Next week I am going to usurpresponsibility.
Speaker 7 (53:46):
Is that your topic?
Speaker 4 (53:50):
I'm going to usurpation.
Am I for it or against it?
I like that.
Speaker 7 (53:59):
Well, it'll be a surprise to see what you come up
with, David.
Speaker 4 (54:02):
It'll be, yeah, it'll be a surprise to both of us.
Speaker 7 (54:04):
To both of us you SERP, I SERP, we all SERP, we
all SERP.
Rudy, thank you for being herefrom Brazil.
Have a great trip back toGuatemala.
Speaker 5 (54:13):
Thank you guys.
Have a great night you too.
Speaker 7 (54:16):
Okay, then we will be back next week with David being
in charge.
So you've been listening to theshow of faith here on 1070 KNTH
.
Please keep the Pope in yourprayers, but keep us in your
prayers, and we'll see you nextweek.
Speaker 10 (54:32):
Find us at am1070theanswercom.
Download our apps.
Stream us 24-7.
Knth and K277DE-FM Houston.
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