July 8, 2025 • 54 mins
What happens when ancient wisdom meets modern questions? When a rabbi, priest, professor, and millennial tackle your deepest spiritual curiosities, the result is a fascinating exploration of faith that transcends traditional boundaries.
Tonight's episode takes a different approach as our interfaith panel responds to listener questions about everything from biblical serpents to the limits of government authority. The conversation begins with a poignant acknowledgment of the devastating floods in Central Texas, reminding us that even amid theological discussions, real human suffering demands our attention and response.
Diving into Genesis 3, we discover striking differences between Jewish and Christian interpretations. Rabbi reads the serpent narrative literally—snakes are just snakes—while our Christian panelists see something more sinister lurking beneath the surface. This seemingly simple difference opens a window into how various faith traditions approach sacred texts and reveals the roots of theological divergence that has shaped centuries of religious thought.
The most provocative moments emerge when we grapple with the relationship between faith and governance. Can virtue be legislated? Our panel unanimously recognizes the limits of law in creating moral citizens while acknowledging its role in protecting shared values. "A society that doesn't recognize there is a law above the law becomes tyranny of majority will," quotes Rudy, capturing the delicate balance between religious conviction and civil authority.
Perhaps most relatable is our honest examination of religious practices across traditions. When a listener questions whether giving up meat on Fridays during Lent truly compares to the rigorous fasting of Ramadan, Father Mario candidly admits the criticism has merit. The conversation reveals how easily meaningful spiritual disciplines can devolve into empty rituals when divorced from their purpose.
Whether you're questioning the divine inspiration of scripture, wondering about religious conversion, or simply curious about how different faiths approach self-discipline, this episode offers thoughtful perspectives without easy answers. Join us in this candid interfaith dialogue where difficult questions lead to deeper understanding.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
There's something happening here, what it is ain't
exactly clear.
There's a man with a gun overthere Telling me I've got to
beware.
I think it's time we stop.
Children, what's that sound?
(00:28):
Everybody, look what's goingdown.
There's battle lines beingdrawn.
Nobody's right if everybody'swrong.
(00:48):
Young people speak in theirminds Are getting so much
resistance from behind Everytime we stop.
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody, look what's goingdown.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Hey, what's that sound Everybody.
Look what's going down.
Welcome to A Show of Faithwhere a professor, priest,
millennial and rabbi discusstheology, philosophy, morality
and ethics and anything else ofinterest in religion.
If you have any response to ourtopics or any comments
(01:26):
regarding what we say, or ifyou'd like to email us a
question you'd like us to likeus to answer on on the air, we
would love to hear from you.
Email us at ashowoffaith1070 atgmailcom.
Ashowoffaith1070 at gmailcom.
You can hear our shows againand again by listening.
Pretty much everywhere podcastsare heard our professors, david
capes, protestant minister andDirector of Academic Programming
for the Lanier TheologicalLibrary.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Thank you, but I think you're supposed to go to
Father Mario first, because hewanted to be the first one
mentioned.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Okay, forget I said that Our priest is Father Mario
Arroyo, retired pastor of StCyril of Alexandria in the
10,000 block of Westheimer you?
Speaker 4 (02:01):
should have said the exalted Father Mario.
Nope too far.
Okay, I'm here.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
So if I made a mistake, do I have to introduce
Dave a second time, or just letthat go?
Speaker 3 (02:13):
No, let's just let that go.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Rudy Kong is our millennial systems engineer.
Has his master's degree intheology from the University of
St Thomas.
Speaker 5 (02:22):
Howdy, howdy.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Hey, rudy, good to hear you, hear you, good to see
you.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
I'm Stuart Federer, retired rabbi of Congregation
Char-Ar-Hush-Alone, the ClearLake area of Houston, texas.
Nikki and Miranda are boardMiranda's our board operator and
Nikki and Miranda help us soundfantastic.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Yes, indeed, indeed Very good.
Hey, listen, we got to starttonight with a recognition of
the tragedy that is unfolding in.
Central Texas.
These floods, these have justravaged Kirk County and other
places.
But you know, 80 people havebeen killed in these flash
(03:05):
floods.
Some of those, at least, havebeen children.
They've been at this camp, CampMystic.
Imagine sending your kids to asummer camp, thinking that's
probably the safest place theycould be, and then to have an
event like this transpire and tosee the devastation.
(03:26):
So our prayers, our thoughtswith those folks tonight as we
begin the show, regardless ofwhat we do, I mean it is a
devastating, devastating event.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
I celebrated three Masses today and at each Mass I
dedicated the celebration of theMass and the prayers to all
those people the parents and thechildren who died, the people
who died.
It's just an amazing go to bedand you think, oh, I'm going to
get some rest tonight.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
You're going to get some sleep tonight, right?
Speaker 4 (04:01):
Man, so we commend them to God.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Yeah, it's about the best thing we can do really now
stewart?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
I couldn't find it, but there is a charity that's
has a title, something likecentral texas charities, and I
don't have it.
Yeah, but there are plenty ofcharities in the area to which
you should donate and supportall the needs of all the
families and the people there.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Yeah, salvation Army of Texas is one of those
organizations that is taking outmoney and trying to help as
they can.
Obviously, there's a lot ofproperty lost, things like that,
but the main thing is the deathof these people, these
(04:50):
wonderful salt-of-the-earthpeople, these children who were
just going to camp and having agreat time at this time.
So I mean my heart breaks,having lost a son a few years
ago.
My heart breaks, having lost ason, you know, a few years ago.
I can almost imagine what theseparents are going through.
(05:13):
I mean, I know, but I mean ourson was a long sickness, but to
have it happen so quickly andunexpectedly, just devastating,
yeah.
So our prayers for these people.
May God have mercy.
May God have mercy.
Amen and may a lot of the peoplewho are out there right now
(05:37):
searching and searching andsearching have strength and
energy beyond their normalcapacity, because there's a lot
of first responders, there's alot of just people who live up
in that area that have boats,that have certain kinds of
vehicles, you know those kind ofthings, four-wheel drives that
can get into some of thoseplaces.
(05:58):
So that's going to be reallycrucial and helicopters are up
there, you know, doing the samething, People with drones are
out there looking right.
Um, so we hope that.
We hope that it would be amiracle to find anybody at this
point, it seems.
But uh, we we believe inmiracles.
Anyway, tonight's gonna be alittle different kind of show,
(06:19):
right?
Speaker 2 (06:19):
uh, yes, uh, yeah.
I got the bright idea a monthago to ask people to email us
questions that they like one orall of us to answer.
Right, and you know, got totell you that what's the first
question that somebody comes upto you to ask a question?
Can I ask you a question?
(06:41):
Yes, which is a question yes,and my answer is always the same
.
You can ask me anything you'dlike, but you're not gonna like
my answers, so that might betrue for all three of us, maybe
well, I hey we have seldom uhgone through a whole show where
I didn't like your, all of youranswers well thank you no, no,
(07:02):
I'm no I.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
I think I said that the wrong way.
Speaker 8 (07:05):
I know what you meant .
Speaker 3 (07:06):
We have seldom gone through a show where I didn't
agree With at least one answeryes, thank you With most of your
answers.
Didn't agree with most.
Anyway, so we have.
We've got a number of reallygood questions, I think.
We've got a lot of of this yeahyeah, I mean we can come back
to some of them later on too aswell.
All right.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
So taking this in order, okay, okay.
This first is from thegentleman who calls himself
Presbyterian Mark.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Presbyterian Mark.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Presbyterian Mark.
Okay, all right.
And he writes guys, how do yourtraditions interpret Genesis,
chapter 3, verse 1 to 15,particularly verses 14 and 15,?
And he is using the NIVtranslation who or what is the
serpent?
Who or what are the serpent'soffspring?
(07:56):
Who is the he who will crushthe serpent's head and will be
struck by the serpent?
And, of course, what is thetree that is in the middle of
the garden?
Grace and peace, presbyterianMark.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
All right, a lot of people probably totally lost by
that question.
So, stuart, give us a rundownof chapter three of the book of
Genesis.
All right.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Well, the three is what some people call the fall.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
No, no commentary.
Just tell us what happens inGenesis 3 alright.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
So, basically, the snake, the serpent, gets Eve to
taste the forbidden fruit, thefruit of the tree of the
knowledge of good and evil, andshe takes the fruit first, gives
tree of the knowledge of goodand evil, and she takes the
fruit first, gives it to herhusband.
They both eat of it.
(08:49):
Their eyes are opened and Godis not happy.
So, coming down to verse 14, 15, this is the statement that God
makes to the snake, and theeternal God said to the serpent
(09:10):
because you have done this, youare cursed above all cattle and
above every beast of the field.
Upon your belly shall you goand dust shall you eat all the
days of your life, and I willput enmity between you and the
woman and between your seed andher seed.
It shall bruise your head andyou shall bruise his or its heel
.
So that's the operative versethat he wants us to speak on.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Okay, yes, All right.
So that's the.
And different translations ordifferent traditions take that
according to.
So, from a Jewish perspective,let's talk about how you read
that particular text.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Well, it's a snake.
It never says anything in thetext about the snake being
satanic or the devil.
It's a snake.
And to answer his question, thenext question who or what are
the serpent's offspring, babysnakes?
(10:11):
That's what it is.
Who is the he who will crushthe serpent's head and will be
struck by the serpent?
Here we have a problem withtranslation In Hebrew.
You don't have an it's, eventhough the same verses I read
from the king james uh says uhupon your belly, shall you go
(10:35):
wait a minute, uh, verse 15 Iwill put enmity between you and
the woman and between your seatand her seat.
It shall bruise your head andyou shall bruise his heel.
Well, there's no it in theHebrew language.
So the generic unknown is his.
So the Hebrew would read heshall bruise your head and you
(11:01):
shall bruise his heel.
But what it's referring to fromthe Jewish perspective is the
seed.
From the Jewish perspective isthe seed Preceding it.
It says I will put enmitybetween you and the woman and
between your seed and her seed.
It meaning the snake shallbruise your head, meaning the
seed's head, and you shallbruise his or its heel.
And that's also the seed thechildren, the descendants.
(11:23):
It explains the enmity betweenhuman beings and snakes.
Cannot speak for anybody elsehere, but I think snakes are
gross.
I don't want to come anywhere.
I don't care if they're cutesylittle garden snakes.
I don't want to come anywherenear them.
Okay, unless it's maybe a dogor a cat.
I'm not particularly fond ofnon-humans.
(11:43):
It's not that I'm not fond ofthem, it's just that I'd rather
not.
So that's and what's the treethat's in the middle of the
garden.
I assume that's a reference.
I'm not sure what verse you'rereferring to, but that's the
tree of life.
I'm sorry, that's the tree ofthe, the fruit of the tree of
the difference between good andevil.
It's the fruit of the tree ofthe difference between good and
(12:04):
evil.
It's not the fruit of the tree.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
It's the tree.
The tree, yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Right, that's what I said.
You're not listening.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
Right, so I think we should do two suggestions.
Okay, one I think that there'sthree Christians here, and the
three Christians probably aregoing to have fairly similar
interpretations.
I think that's true, so I don'tthink we should spend time.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Unless there's a difference between Protestant
and Catholic.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Not a lot on this.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
I wouldn't think no.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
So, Mario, you want to give us a Catholic
perspective on this.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
Catholic Christian, I think.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Catholic Christian yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
I think the whole issue is interpreted from the
well, no, let me do this.
You do it because you're betterat when it comes to the
Scripture interpretation.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Oh, okay, all right, I can do that, rudy, are you in
agreement with that?
Speaker 5 (13:06):
Yeah, yeah, all right , I can do that.
Rudy, are you in agreement withthat?
Yeah, give it a go Okay.
I mean we're kind of in thesame page, it's just the serpent
.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
I think the identity of the serpent ends up being
interesting and important.
Here we have the text beginswith the serpent in chapter 3.
Now remember that God hascreated as kind of a setup.
God has created humanity, andGod has created everything light
(13:37):
and darkness, and land and dryland and such the seas and then
God has created Genesis, chapter2.
It is not good that man shouldbe alone.
So God creates the animals inthe same manner that he's going
(13:57):
to be creating others, and thennone of those were found to be
helpmates I'm not sure that's agreat translation of that but a
companion for Adam.
So God made we've got to take abreak here.
God made, then the woman whocomes out of man, and man has
just this wonderful poeticresponse she is now bone of my
(14:20):
bone, flesh of my flesh.
She shall be called Eshahbecause she was taken out of.
Esh.
So, at any rate, it's greatpoetry in its day, and so that
sets us up for chapter three.
In chapter three, though, wesee that they are in the Garden
of Eden, and then somethinghappens in the Garden of Eden,
(14:42):
and we're going to talk aboutthat.
I guess, father Mario, when wecome back from the break.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
Yep, can we do that?
Yep, this is 1070 KNTH and wewill be right back.
Speaker 9 (14:52):
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This is the Big 1070.
The answer Johnny Angel.
Johnny Angel.
Speaker 7 (17:01):
Johnny Angel, you're an angel to me, johnny Angel.
How I love him, how I tinglewhen he passes by.
Every time he says hello, myheart begins to fly, johnny
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Angel, how I want him begins tofly.
He's got something that I can'tresist, but he doesn't even
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(17:47):
I dream of him and me and howit's gonna be.
All the fellas call me up for adate, but I just sit and wait.
I'd rather concentrate onJohnny Angel, cause I love him
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(18:12):
see how lovely heaven will be.
And together we will see howlovely heaven will be.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Welcome back to A Show of Faith on AM 1070.
The answer we are answeringemails.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Right tonight from Mark Presbyterian Mark, yes
Asked the question of and fromGenesis, chapter 3, who or what
is the servant Now here?
I think I would disagree withmy friend Rabbi Stuart Svetter.
Speaker 7 (18:42):
You're wrong, you're wrong.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
I think, yeah, he's is represented as a serpent, and
yet there is more to him thanthat.
He's not just a regular run ofthe mill snake.
First of all, he's a talkingsnake, and and there aren't too
many talking snakes they, they,they didn't.
Most people would haveunderstood Don't, don't, just
(19:04):
interrupt me.
Did I say don't?
I didn't say that, Justinterrupt me.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Did I say a word?
I didn't say a word.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
You went.
Anyway, I think we're tounderstand.
There's something differentabout this snake.
Now.
In the ancient world he wouldhave been understood probably as
some sort of an angelic ordivine being of some sort, not a
divine being over against God,superior to God, but someone
(19:30):
maybe is a part.
Some would say the heavenlycouncil, or some would say
different kinds of things.
So I take him as for more thanjust a serpent, because he's a
talking serpent and he ends uptripping up Eve and Adam along
the way, but it's a talkingserpent with nefarious
intentions.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
Exactly, yeah, with malevolent intentions.
Mischievous.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Mischievous yeah, mischievous is another way of
putting it.
And so a great book on thisPresbyterian Mark is a book by
Michael Heiser, who's written abook called the Unseen Realm.
I'd recommend that book to you,michael Heiser, the Unseen
Realm, because he ends up goingin a lot of different directions
(20:14):
from the history and traditionsof the times of the ancient
world and how these things mighthave been taken or understood.
The tree that's in the middleof the garden, yes, is the tree
of the knowledge of good andevil, the tree of the knowledge
of good and evil, which I taketo be not just knowledge,
knowing about something buthaving experiential knowledge of
(20:38):
and such.
And control and a wishing ofcontrol, right, yeah, yeah, when
you talk about 14 to 15, let meread those verses one more time
.
The Lord said to the serpent hesaid because you've done this,
cursed are you.
Above all, the livestock Onyour belly shall go dust.
You shall eat all the days ofyour life.
(20:59):
I'll put enmity between you andthe woman, between your
offspring and her offspring.
I'll put enmity between you andthe woman, between your
offspring and her offspring.
He shall bruise, that is, theoffspring of Eve, will bruise
your head.
You shall bruise his heel,which is understood historically
as an early vision of thegospel.
(21:21):
Yes, proto-evangelium is whatit's often referred to.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
And Father Mario, you may have kind of.
No, that's basically it.
I mean, it's a propheticunderstanding of the conflict
that is about to occur Right and, from our perspective as
Christians, it's what's calledthe proto-evangelium, in other
words, it's forecasting theconflict that Jesus will come in
and Jesus will— An offspring ofthe woman, that's right.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Not all offspring, but offspring meaning a singular
.
That's correct Offspring willbe the one who ultimately
crushes the head of theopposition at that point, and
it's understood in that sense,in between a contest, as it were
, between jesus and the deviland basically all of this is big
(22:10):
difference between judaism, theinterpretation that judaism
enormous.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Yeah, and operative term is interpretation, yeah
interpretation for us?
Speaker 4 (22:19):
uh, beginning with saint augustine in the fourth
century, uh, this wasinterpreted as the beginning of
what's called the fall, and thefall is that human beings broke
with God and they lost theirsense of who they are.
I always like to enjoy askingpeople when Adam and Eve eat of
(22:41):
this, they find they're naked.
And I've always found it veryinteresting that God is walking
in the garden and he says AdamEve, where are you?
And Adam says I was naked, sowe were naked and so we hid.
And I love the next sentencewho told you you were naked?
In other words, when you're inthe bathroom taking a shower, do
(23:02):
you need anybody to tell youyou're naked?
Well, of course not.
Why would God ask that unlessthe whole concept of nakedness
not enter the humanconsciousness?
And for me it's veryinteresting that the human, for
all this evolution that we talkabout in secular culture, it's
interesting that the humanperson, the human being, is the
(23:25):
only one who wears clothes.
I always tell people go home,tell your dog you're naked.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Yesterday.
Yesterday was it Sunday.
Today we saw a dog with alittle skirt on.
Speaker 5 (23:39):
Rudy Rudy, yeah, sorry about that no, no, I just
wanted to add that, as Catholicsand this is probably where we
differ from you guys, and thisis from the catechism, right but
the Christian tradition, atleast the Catholic tradition in
(24:00):
this case sees this particularpassage too as the announcement
of the New Eid.
So Mary, the mother of Christbecause you know, this is one of
the things that is quitedivisive of many Protestants and
Catholics, of many Protestantsand Catholics, is the Immaculate
(24:21):
Conception and Mary's role orveneration, if you will.
So this is quite an importantpassage, right, and it kind of
foreshadows Revelations 2, but Iknow we've got to go to it.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
Yeah, so almost a premonition of Eve at this point
.
A premonition of Eve at thispoint, that this A premonition
of Mary.
Sorry, sorry.
A premonition of Mary out ofEve, of Mary, yeah, yeah, good
right.
Speaker 4 (24:46):
Okay, this is TANTH 1070, the Answer, and we will be
right back.
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AM 1070 and FM 1033, the Answer.
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Speaker 1 (27:09):
The Answer.
There is a season and a time toevery purpose A time to be born
, a time to die, a time to plant, a time to reap, a time to kill
(27:34):
, a time to heal, a time to read, a time to kill, a time to heal
, a time to laugh, a time toweep.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Well, welcome back to a show of 35 and 10-7.
The Answer.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
All right, stuart.
Who's next?
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Now we're turning to Debbie in Spring, and she asked
the following.
First question, the medicalassistance in death law in New
York, which we discussed a fewweeks ago.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Well, we talked about that last week.
Yeah, last week.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Okay.
Ben Franklin's famous responsewas a republic if you can keep
it.
Maintaining a republic andliberty requires virtue.
How do we maintain a virtuoussociety if the government is
legalizing sin?
Speaker 4 (28:18):
well, it all depends on what kind of sin I mean you
can legalize.
For example, we triedprohibition.
Okay, and depends on whoseconcept of sin and prohibition
brought even worse and which sinthey're not all the same, yeah
so.
So I mean, the governmentcannot legalize, cannot legalize
(28:39):
.
How should I say this enforcevirtue by law.
You can't, you can't, yeah, youcan no.
I mean, you can't do it,totally no, but you can push
people in the right direction.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
That is correct.
The laws of desegregation.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
That is correct.
Yes but you can't totally turnsociety.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
No you can't, because you can't by law change a
person's heart.
No, you can't.
But you can control theirbehavior, that's right.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Yeah, I do think that our founding fathers expected
that the people who would beruling and the people who would
be making decisions and thosekind of things would be virtuous
people, that they would bepeople, not necessarily perfect
people, but people who knew whatthe virtues are and pursued the
(29:26):
virtues significantly in theirlife, whether religious or not.
Not all virtues are religiousvirtues.
Speaker 4 (29:36):
The problem is that you don't know where the line of
virtue is.
For example, can you make a lawlimiting the amount of, say,
alcohol that you can drink?
Speaker 2 (29:47):
We tried that, as you said earlier.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
The more you try to control some things, the worse
you make it.
So I don't know that that linecan be drawn, that you can say
that the government can onlylegalize virtue.
You can push people in thatdirection, but you can't outlaw
sin in all things.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
But I think that what we can do is use the law to
make statements about our values.
That's correct.
In other words, we can say thatthere's a law for the past 20,
30 years about a hate crimeRight the past 20, 30 years
about a hate crime Right that ifa person does something, it's
(30:38):
one kind of law, but if they doit as a result of prejudice, If
it becomes, yeah.
Because we are making a valuejudgment that one act is worse
than another act.
Yeah, and we're putting it inlaw.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Yeah, and that's the effectiveness of law.
I think, yeah, I think law doesexpect a certain amount of
virtue of people, but it doesn'tnecessarily, it doesn't
guarantee it.
But the government should notbe I don't think saying that
suicide is A-OK.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
Let's go to Rudy.
Rudy, do you have anything tocomment on this?
Speaker 5 (31:14):
Yeah, I was going to say no.
No, that there's a good sayingby St Pope, john Paul II it's a
society that does not recognizethat there is a law above the
law, a moral law that, in humannature and divine reason,
becomes tyranny of majority will.
(31:38):
Right, but the church clearlyteaches that civil law must be
rooted in natural law.
But they're not the same thing,right, that's right.
It's supposed to reflect amoral order.
If you will and you can—I thinkwe have an easier time dealing
(32:00):
with the negatives.
Right, like thou shalt notmurder, like that's a.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
The big ones.
Speaker 5 (32:06):
That's a very kind of right and thou shalt not steal.
We can granularly get down tookay, but what about land?
What about your car?
What about you know, breakingsomebody's property?
So you can from these main laws.
That's where we kind of haveextracted a lot of our human law
, if you will, or civil law.
(32:27):
I mean, I think that I agreewith Salt and Mara.
I can't tell you, david, behumble, or David, be giving with
your things and think aboutothers.
You can't root that into a sortof civil code.
Now, there are certain thingsthat you can do for if you see a
(32:50):
crime, to report it, or if youknow it to not become an
accomplice, but again, I thinkit's always in the negative
fashion, if that makes any sense.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
Yeah, I think too.
You know, by generosity you canput initiatives in the tax code
to encourage people to begiving.
But that's not the.
That is a law, but it's adifferent sort of law.
I know we got to get on to thenext question.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
And it doesn't make them generous.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
It merely entices them to give.
It's not the same thing.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
No, that's true.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Generosity is a character, is part of a
character, but the act you canlegislate and that is hey, you
want a tax break.
Give, charity, Give to charity.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
What's the next?
Speaker 2 (33:33):
question.
Well, the next question— it'ssort of related about—.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
It is related.
Yes, stuart, you want me toread it.
Go ahead.
Yeah, has the Catholic Churchchanged its views on suicides,
people who have committedsuicide being buried in
sanctified ground?
Speaker 4 (33:50):
Yes, of course, the whole issue with suicides.
In the Catholic Church we'vedeepened our understanding.
When a person commits suicide,they really don't want to die,
they want to stop suffering, andso when you lose, suicide is
still a sin.
It's a mortal sin.
But the whole issue is remember.
(34:11):
For a mortal sin in theCatholic Church, you have to
have serious matter.
Which suicide is sufficientreflection and full consent of
the will.
When you are in a state ofintense suffering, you can't
give full consent of the willbecause you can't have clarity.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Right, it's the same thing in Judaism.
You can't be for lack of abetter term insane, and you can
assume that they were not intheir right mind when they
killed themselves.
Speaker 4 (34:38):
Yes, so anybody can be buried in holy ground.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
Okay, and is that true in Judaism too, Stuart?
That anybody can be buried Notanybody but a Jewish person
who's committed a mortal Right.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
There are certain things that they will recommend
in Jewish laws and traditions.
For example, they're not goingto get a glorified eulogy.
Okay, they're not going to be.
I've seen bunches of cemeteriesand I've never really
understood the idea of a betterarea of the cemetery.
It's a cemetery, but you don'tput them in a place of honor in
(35:16):
the cemetery if they'vecommitted suicide.
But yes, they still get all therights and services for suicide
.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Here's the question for you, stuart.
I can't answer this for you.
Is being a Jew based onbloodline or race?
Speaker 2 (35:33):
No, If it was, you can't convert to become a Jew.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Well, that's the next part of the question.
It's not bloodline, it's notrace, right, right?
So, since it is, you canconvert.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
A person can convert and become a Jew.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
So a non-Jew In the book of Esther, 8th chapter.
Okay.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
Okay, so are they fully Jewish?
A non-Jew?
You have that in the book ofEsther, eighth chapter.
Okay.
Okay, so are they fully Jewish?
Yes, are they treated fully?
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Jewish.
Well, jews have creeps too, but, yes, they're supposed to be
fully Jewish and treatedcompletely and utterly as a Jew,
and the fact that theyconverted is never supposed to
even be spoken about them.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
Oh really.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Okay, you know people are still people, right, but
it's really that explicitlystated in Jewish laws and
traditions.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
Yeah, yeah, right, really.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
If someone who is Asian or black converts to
Judaism, they are stillobviously Asian or black, but
they're also Jews now becausethey've converted.
But a person can't convert tobecome black.
A person can't convert tobecome Asian.
So being a Jew is not race,it's not bloodline.
Let's see, yeah, it's notbloodline.
(36:48):
Those are the two words sheused bloodline or race.
So it's neither.
We are a nation, and everynation has its rights of
defining who's a citizen anddefining the process of
naturalization to become acitizen.
And for the Jewish nation and Idon't mean the state of Israel-
I'm talking about Jews as anation or people.
(37:08):
The act of naturalization is theprocess of conversion to the
religion.
So we're a nation defined byour religion.
What did God say to Abraham?
I will make you a great culture.
No, I'll make you a greatethnic group.
No, I will make you a greatnation, because that's what we
are.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Interesting Mario.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
No, anything there.
Speaker 4 (37:31):
No, okay.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
What's the next question?
All of these questions havebeen great.
Many of you, most of you, thefive people who responded, have
multiple questions in everyemail and we can't get to all of
them this week.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
Yeah, what about Tom of Alvin?
Tom of Alvin has kind of aninteresting thing.
I would love our millennial tochime in on this one Right, yes.
Speaker 4 (37:56):
What's the?
Speaker 2 (37:56):
question the first one or second one?
Speaker 3 (37:58):
Do the first one.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
Okay, Rudy, this is for you.
I saw something recently thatat first glance was
inspirational.
Later I thought it might beinappropriate in its context.
There was a celebration of asoccer championship immediately
following the final match inEngland.
All the team members werewearing special champions shirts
, except one.
He wore a shirt that readsomething like Jesus, the way,
(38:22):
the truth and the light.
What are your thoughts onexpressing a religious message
at this type of celebration,when the rest of the team is
wearing a specific uniform?
Speaker 4 (38:34):
Rudy.
Speaker 5 (38:36):
Yeah, I don't know, I don't think I care too much, if
that makes any sense.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Yeah, you don't care too much about that.
You mean you don't like it?
Speaker 2 (38:50):
No, you don't care what he wears.
We're not sure what you mean.
Speaker 5 (38:55):
I mean, what's that right?
Speaker 2 (38:58):
I said we don't know if you meant you were you don't
care about it or you were upsetby it.
Speaker 5 (39:05):
You weren't clear on what you said.
No, no, I don't care.
I guess what I'm saying is Idon't really care for it, you
know.
Oh okay, I think it's just.
I don't know.
I have a weird situation.
Maybe I'm sort of a weirdmillennial in that sense well,
(39:30):
we know that about you.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Anyway, let me ask Father Mario do you have any
thoughts?
Speaker 3 (39:33):
about it.
Speaker 4 (39:34):
I know you're not a sports guy the team owner or the
team captain has the right toset the dress code.
If the team owner or the teamcaptain does not set a dress
code, then you can wear whateveryou want.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
And I would say a person can wear whatever they
want.
However, there is appropriatedress and there's inappropriate
dress and, like you said, theking tapping or the owner of the
team or whoever would be ableto set that.
That's it, yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
Yeah, I'm kind of surprised that there was not
something said that everybodywears this T-shirt the
championship T-shirt when thegame is over, if we win the
thing.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
I probably did you know there's been this.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
We got to take a break.
Let's come back.
Speaker 4 (40:18):
Come back and talk about this.
This is come time.
This is a comeback.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
You sounded like me 10 minutes ago.
Speaker 4 (40:25):
This is KNTH 1070, and we'll be right back.
Speaker 9 (40:29):
AM 1070, the answer.
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Speaker 9 (42:01):
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Speaker 7 (42:30):
The answer Mr Sandman , bring me a dream.
Make him the cutest that I'veever seen.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
I didn't mean to give you a heart attack with my
singing.
Speaker 7 (42:53):
Like roses and clover , I'm beating my chest in
protest.
I didn't mean to give you aheart attack with my singing.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Welcome back to our show of faith.
Speaker 4 (43:01):
I thought you weren't supposed to curse on me.
Who cursed?
She keeps on saying bum bum,bum, bum.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
That's it, yeah, no, no, all right, we have another
question from Tom of Alvin.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
Yeah, yes.
His second question howimportant is the practice of
self-discipline orself-sacrifice to Judaism and
Christianity?
It always impresses me when adevout Muslim goes through
Ramadan without eating ordrinking during daylight hours.
I know a Hindu woman who usesvacation time so she can spend
nine days in total silence.
It seems to me the mostCatholics, like me, spend our
(43:36):
Lenten season of sacrifice byeating tons of fried fish every
Friday at the KC Hall, or wegive up our Friday night
meatloaf in favor of a rathergluttonous seafood feast at Papa
Do's.
This hardly seems parallel tothe sacrifice and discipline of
other religions.
Speaker 3 (43:50):
Father Mario.
Speaker 4 (43:51):
That is correct.
Speaker 3 (43:53):
What does that mean?
Speaker 4 (43:54):
It means it's a very good criticism, because many
Catholics are not holding to theprinciple of self-denial in
that sense.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
For what?
Speaker 4 (44:07):
Yes, but the problem is, of course, that if you don't
have the spirituality ofself-denial and why you're doing
it, thedenial and why you'redoing it, the whole point of why
you're doing it, then it justbecomes some silly rule that you
say, okay, I'm not going to eatmeat on Friday, on Good Friday,
but I'm going to go out andspend $300 on lobster.
(44:28):
You know so it's just stupid.
So there's some things if youdo it with the right reason, you
know that's great.
Right, the carbonbalah intention?
That's right.
Or, like me, what I used to doin Lent.
I used to give up chocolate andI would spend the entire Lenten
season going oh I needchocolate.
Look, god, what I'm doing foryou.
I'm suffering for chocolate,god, I give up chocolate and
(44:51):
then on Easter Sunday I'd buythe biggest chocolate bar I
could buy and I'd get sickeating.
That was stupid, as if God wasenjoying my suffering.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
That's just dumb Rudy , let me get Rudy the millennial
, let's get the millennial inhere on that.
Speaker 5 (45:11):
I mean it's without understanding the purpose of it.
So to what point I'm always.
I was just reading earlier thismorning the story, the
rebellion of the Maccabees, andit's like the sacrifice right
(45:32):
there that the brothers gothrough, and To me it's that
essentially right.
If you have an understanding ofwhat it is that you're doing
and for what it is that you'redoing, then you're doing it out
of what I would like to callsome sort of love, right?
Whether you know, as a parent,you know, if you tell your child
(45:56):
something, you know, go cleanyour room.
You know whether they do itbecause they know they're going
to get in trouble or they do itbecause they love you and they
don't want to see.
You know, here comes dad orhere comes mom.
He's going to do it for me,right, and I shouldn't put him
through that.
There's still kind of grades tothat which I think lead to
(46:19):
spiritual growth and are sort ofpart of the maturity of the
soul, if you will.
Um, but, but it starts.
Sometimes it starts with withum, with a little bit of
humility, just listening and and, and maybe not understanding
exactly as to the entire extentof why it is that I'm doing this
(46:40):
, right.
I mean I think it kind of playsinto our faith.
I mean as much as I would sayyou guys I mean Rabbi, mario and
David you guys studied theBible and led these religious
lives for longer than I've beenalive.
Speaker 3 (46:58):
Yes, that's indeed true.
Thanks for pointing that out,right.
Speaker 5 (47:04):
But did you really say that you understand all
aspects of the faith?
Speaker 3 (47:09):
Oh, no, no, no no.
Speaker 5 (47:10):
Your faith particularly.
Speaker 3 (47:11):
No.
Speaker 5 (47:12):
Right.
But there's a desire within you, even now, right, to, maybe, I
would say, learn to grow, toshare, to love.
And I think, if you understandthat part of sacrifice, I think
God can kind of use all aspectsof that to let you grow, but
(47:34):
it's always with, what would yousay, a participation from us, a
willing participation from useven though we may not
understand it fully.
Speaker 3 (47:43):
Let's let Stuart talk about Judaism for a second,
because it was about Judaism andChristianity.
Speaker 2 (47:48):
Of course, but all religions, I believe, have some
form of self-denial as aspiritual tool.
You know, the Bible is filledwith people fasting For the Day
of Atonement, yom Kippur, whichcomes in September, october.
(48:08):
It's a fall holiday, holy day,and it's the Day of Atonement.
It's a day spent in prayer, andpart of that observance of the
day is neither eating ordrinking for what amounts to
about 25 hours.
And the purpose is manifold.
First, the Bible says on thatday you will afflict yourself.
(48:35):
And there's biblicalinterpretation and other
interpretation that has alwaysunderstood afflict yourself to
mean fasting, not eating ordrinking.
Okay, it also reminds us thatthere are people who are not
choosing to fast, but whosesituation in life makes them not
able to eat because they'repoor.
(48:57):
And it creates not justsympathy oh, the poor little
poor person.
It creates not just sympathy oh, the poor little poor person.
It creates empathy.
You now know what they feel,but they're not feeling it by
choice, you are.
That should make us moreempathetic.
Okay, so, multiple reasons.
But every religion also has itsmartyrs, where a person is
sacrificing their own life for agreater cause.
(49:19):
So I think that self-disciplineor self-sacrifice is very much
a part of really all religions.
Speaker 3 (49:30):
Yeah, I think that's true.
You talk about Islam and peoplenot eating during Ramadan for a
month eating or drinking duringdaylight hours and having then
minimal food the other times.
You know, the word disciplecomes from a root that means
discipline and disciplesthemselves.
(49:53):
If you're a student, then youdiscipline yourself.
If you're a student of Jesus,if you're a follower of Jesus,
you're going to disciplineyourself.
And you're a follower of Jesusyou're going to discipline
yourself, and you're going to doso out of a desire to please
him, and you're going to do soout of a desire to know him and
know him better.
And it takes all kinds ofmanifestations.
I mean, you've talked, Stuart,about the discipline of not
(50:16):
eating a cheeseburger, Right.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
Or keeping kosher.
Speaker 3 (50:19):
Or keeping kosher right.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
Keeping the Sabbath.
Speaker 3 (50:22):
We have all of our faiths have that, and I do think
that, as Rudy has said, fatherMario has said that we do our
best.
Well, we are at our best whenwe are exercising these
disciplines knowingly andintentionally, not just sort of
accidentally along the way,stuart, yeah.
Speaker 5 (50:45):
Well we're running out of time.
We should go to the nextquestion.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
This is from Clay and all of his questions have been
great questions.
I wish we could get to all ofthem.
But Clay writes Are the Torahand the Holy Bible divine words
of God or collections ofdocuments written by inspired
and well-intentioned men?
Both see, because the Torah isthe first section of the Bible
(51:11):
and the whole of the Bible hasdifferent kinds of literature
and different, differentexpressions of the human spirit
but I think that he's making akind of a false dichotomy
between the Word of God or meninspired.
Speaker 3 (51:31):
A lot of people have made that case.
It's either the Word of God orit's the Word of man.
Can't be both.
That's a very common sort ofattack.
Speaker 4 (51:43):
I always like to use this again.
If I invite you to come and seea gold mine that I have and you
walk in and you think, where'sthe gold?
You are expecting all the wallsto be made out of gold.
Well, that's not the way it is.
There's veins of gold.
You have to dig it out and youhave to separate made out of
gold.
Speaker 2 (52:00):
Well, that's not the way it is.
There's veins of gold.
You have to dig it out.
Speaker 4 (52:01):
You have to dig it out and you have to separate it
from the ore.
Okay, so to my way of thinking,the Bible is the Word of God
embedded in the Word of man,progressing in deeper
understanding in the future.
Speaker 2 (52:17):
And I would agree with that.
But I think there are alsoexplicitly passages that I
really don't think come from god, like I agree the psalms are
written from the human heart,yes, and expression and
expression of experiences, yes.
So I forgot which psalm it is.
David, you'll help me.
Speaker 3 (52:35):
137 I think is one year further dash, my dash.
Speaker 2 (52:39):
The children on the rocks, I don't think comes from
god.
I think that comes fromsomebody who had it happen to
them yeah, okay, yeah, these arepeople who had seen their
children destroyed and killedright on the journey to babylon
right so.
So if you're talking about thetorah, the five books of moses,
the first section of the bible,yes, I would call that from god.
One way or other you have tosay it's from God, because
(53:02):
otherwise, if a human said thoushalt not murder, then another
human can say thou shalt murder.
And who's to say which is thebetter statement except another
human opinion?
So I believe that you reallyhave to say there's a lot of God
in it.
Oh yeah, like the vain lady wewere talking about.
Yeah, that's right, you're sovain.
Speaker 4 (53:24):
This is opposed, of course, to the Muslim
understanding of the Quran,because the Muslim understanding
of the Quran is that everysingle word was dictated by God
to Muhammad.
Muhammad, yeah, it's likewalking into a gold mine and
saying, no, all of the walls aremade of gold.
(53:44):
The Quran is basically not theword of man, it's the word of
God, a hundred percent, everysingle word.
The Quran is not equal to ourBible.
The Quran is not equal to ourBible.
Speaker 3 (53:59):
It's different.
It's a different understandingof it.
Speaker 2 (54:01):
Absolutely, but you know most of the Bible I would
kind of look at that way, theTorah, the five books of Moses,
I would say.
Speaker 3 (54:10):
The difference is, and we've got to go.
How did God do this right?
Is it let down out of heaveninto a person's mind, or did
they, through their experiences,write these things?
Speaker 2 (54:24):
out Was it dictated to Moses and Sinai.
We're going to have to go.
Speaker 3 (54:28):
We can come back to this.
Speaker 4 (54:29):
We can come back to it next week, but, yes, both and
both and both.
And I just want to do ashout-out to Summer, who is a
Jewish nurse who treated me, whoknows you?
Her name is.
Speaker 2 (54:40):
Summer Hi Sharon, who is a Jewish nurse who treated
me.
Who knows you?
Her name is Summer Hi Sharon,who was listening.
Speaker 4 (54:42):
That's right, so this is 1070.
There's something happening here, what it is ain't
exactly clear.
There's a man with a gun overthere Telling me I've got to
beware.
I think it's time we stop.
Children, what's that sound?
(00:28):
Everybody, look what's goingdown.
There's battle lines beingdrawn.
Nobody's right if everybody'swrong.
(00:48):
Young people speak in theirminds Are getting so much
resistance from behind Everytime we stop.
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody, look what's goingdown.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Hey, what's that sound Everybody.
Look what's going down.
Welcome to A Show of Faithwhere a professor, priest,
millennial and rabbi discusstheology, philosophy, morality
and ethics and anything else ofinterest in religion.
If you have any response to ourtopics or any comments
(01:26):
regarding what we say, or ifyou'd like to email us a
question you'd like us to likeus to answer on on the air, we
would love to hear from you.
Email us at ashowoffaith1070 atgmailcom.
Ashowoffaith1070 at gmailcom.
You can hear our shows againand again by listening.
Pretty much everywhere podcastsare heard our professors, david
capes, protestant minister andDirector of Academic Programming
for the Lanier TheologicalLibrary.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Thank you, but I think you're supposed to go to
Father Mario first, because hewanted to be the first one
mentioned.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Okay, forget I said that Our priest is Father Mario
Arroyo, retired pastor of StCyril of Alexandria in the
10,000 block of Westheimer you?
Speaker 4 (02:01):
should have said the exalted Father Mario.
Nope too far.
Okay, I'm here.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
So if I made a mistake, do I have to introduce
Dave a second time, or just letthat go?
Speaker 3 (02:13):
No, let's just let that go.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Rudy Kong is our millennial systems engineer.
Has his master's degree intheology from the University of
St Thomas.
Speaker 5 (02:22):
Howdy, howdy.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Hey, rudy, good to hear you, hear you, good to see
you.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
I'm Stuart Federer, retired rabbi of Congregation
Char-Ar-Hush-Alone, the ClearLake area of Houston, texas.
Nikki and Miranda are boardMiranda's our board operator and
Nikki and Miranda help us soundfantastic.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Yes, indeed, indeed Very good.
Hey, listen, we got to starttonight with a recognition of
the tragedy that is unfolding in.
Central Texas.
These floods, these have justravaged Kirk County and other
places.
But you know, 80 people havebeen killed in these flash
(03:05):
floods.
Some of those, at least, havebeen children.
They've been at this camp, CampMystic.
Imagine sending your kids to asummer camp, thinking that's
probably the safest place theycould be, and then to have an
event like this transpire and tosee the devastation.
(03:26):
So our prayers, our thoughtswith those folks tonight as we
begin the show, regardless ofwhat we do, I mean it is a
devastating, devastating event.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
I celebrated three Masses today and at each Mass I
dedicated the celebration of theMass and the prayers to all
those people the parents and thechildren who died, the people
who died.
It's just an amazing go to bedand you think, oh, I'm going to
get some rest tonight.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
You're going to get some sleep tonight, right?
Speaker 4 (04:01):
Man, so we commend them to God.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Yeah, it's about the best thing we can do really now
stewart?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
I couldn't find it, but there is a charity that's
has a title, something likecentral texas charities, and I
don't have it.
Yeah, but there are plenty ofcharities in the area to which
you should donate and supportall the needs of all the
families and the people there.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Yeah, salvation Army of Texas is one of those
organizations that is taking outmoney and trying to help as
they can.
Obviously, there's a lot ofproperty lost, things like that,
but the main thing is the deathof these people, these
(04:50):
wonderful salt-of-the-earthpeople, these children who were
just going to camp and having agreat time at this time.
So I mean my heart breaks,having lost a son a few years
ago.
My heart breaks, having lost ason, you know, a few years ago.
I can almost imagine what theseparents are going through.
(05:13):
I mean, I know, but I mean ourson was a long sickness, but to
have it happen so quickly andunexpectedly, just devastating,
yeah.
So our prayers for these people.
May God have mercy.
May God have mercy.
Amen and may a lot of the peoplewho are out there right now
(05:37):
searching and searching andsearching have strength and
energy beyond their normalcapacity, because there's a lot
of first responders, there's alot of just people who live up
in that area that have boats,that have certain kinds of
vehicles, you know those kind ofthings, four-wheel drives that
can get into some of thoseplaces.
(05:58):
So that's going to be reallycrucial and helicopters are up
there, you know, doing the samething, People with drones are
out there looking right.
Um, so we hope that.
We hope that it would be amiracle to find anybody at this
point, it seems.
But uh, we we believe inmiracles.
Anyway, tonight's gonna be alittle different kind of show,
(06:19):
right?
Speaker 2 (06:19):
uh, yes, uh, yeah.
I got the bright idea a monthago to ask people to email us
questions that they like one orall of us to answer.
Right, and you know, got totell you that what's the first
question that somebody comes upto you to ask a question?
Can I ask you a question?
(06:41):
Yes, which is a question yes,and my answer is always the same
.
You can ask me anything you'dlike, but you're not gonna like
my answers, so that might betrue for all three of us, maybe
well, I hey we have seldom uhgone through a whole show where
I didn't like your, all of youranswers well thank you no, no,
(07:02):
I'm no I.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
I think I said that the wrong way.
Speaker 8 (07:05):
I know what you meant .
Speaker 3 (07:06):
We have seldom gone through a show where I didn't
agree With at least one answeryes, thank you With most of your
answers.
Didn't agree with most.
Anyway, so we have.
We've got a number of reallygood questions, I think.
We've got a lot of of this yeahyeah, I mean we can come back
to some of them later on too aswell.
All right.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
So taking this in order, okay, okay.
This first is from thegentleman who calls himself
Presbyterian Mark.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Presbyterian Mark.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Presbyterian Mark.
Okay, all right.
And he writes guys, how do yourtraditions interpret Genesis,
chapter 3, verse 1 to 15,particularly verses 14 and 15,?
And he is using the NIVtranslation who or what is the
serpent?
Who or what are the serpent'soffspring?
(07:56):
Who is the he who will crushthe serpent's head and will be
struck by the serpent?
And, of course, what is thetree that is in the middle of
the garden?
Grace and peace, presbyterianMark.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
All right, a lot of people probably totally lost by
that question.
So, stuart, give us a rundownof chapter three of the book of
Genesis.
All right.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Well, the three is what some people call the fall.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
No, no commentary.
Just tell us what happens inGenesis 3 alright.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
So, basically, the snake, the serpent, gets Eve to
taste the forbidden fruit, thefruit of the tree of the
knowledge of good and evil, andshe takes the fruit first, gives
tree of the knowledge of goodand evil, and she takes the
fruit first, gives it to herhusband.
They both eat of it.
(08:49):
Their eyes are opened and Godis not happy.
So, coming down to verse 14, 15, this is the statement that God
makes to the snake, and theeternal God said to the serpent
(09:10):
because you have done this, youare cursed above all cattle and
above every beast of the field.
Upon your belly shall you goand dust shall you eat all the
days of your life, and I willput enmity between you and the
woman and between your seed andher seed.
It shall bruise your head andyou shall bruise his or its heel
.
So that's the operative versethat he wants us to speak on.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Okay, yes, All right.
So that's the.
And different translations ordifferent traditions take that
according to.
So, from a Jewish perspective,let's talk about how you read
that particular text.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Well, it's a snake.
It never says anything in thetext about the snake being
satanic or the devil.
It's a snake.
And to answer his question, thenext question who or what are
the serpent's offspring, babysnakes?
(10:11):
That's what it is.
Who is the he who will crushthe serpent's head and will be
struck by the serpent?
Here we have a problem withtranslation In Hebrew.
You don't have an it's, eventhough the same verses I read
from the king james uh says uhupon your belly, shall you go
(10:35):
wait a minute, uh, verse 15 Iwill put enmity between you and
the woman and between your seatand her seat.
It shall bruise your head andyou shall bruise his heel.
Well, there's no it in theHebrew language.
So the generic unknown is his.
So the Hebrew would read heshall bruise your head and you
(11:01):
shall bruise his heel.
But what it's referring to fromthe Jewish perspective is the
seed.
From the Jewish perspective isthe seed Preceding it.
It says I will put enmitybetween you and the woman and
between your seed and her seed.
It meaning the snake shallbruise your head, meaning the
seed's head, and you shallbruise his or its heel.
And that's also the seed thechildren, the descendants.
(11:23):
It explains the enmity betweenhuman beings and snakes.
Cannot speak for anybody elsehere, but I think snakes are
gross.
I don't want to come anywhere.
I don't care if they're cutesylittle garden snakes.
I don't want to come anywherenear them.
Okay, unless it's maybe a dogor a cat.
I'm not particularly fond ofnon-humans.
(11:43):
It's not that I'm not fond ofthem, it's just that I'd rather
not.
So that's and what's the treethat's in the middle of the
garden.
I assume that's a reference.
I'm not sure what verse you'rereferring to, but that's the
tree of life.
I'm sorry, that's the tree ofthe, the fruit of the tree of
the difference between good andevil.
It's the fruit of the tree ofthe difference between good and
(12:04):
evil.
It's not the fruit of the tree.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
It's the tree.
The tree, yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Right, that's what I said.
You're not listening.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
Right, so I think we should do two suggestions.
Okay, one I think that there'sthree Christians here, and the
three Christians probably aregoing to have fairly similar
interpretations.
I think that's true, so I don'tthink we should spend time.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Unless there's a difference between Protestant
and Catholic.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Not a lot on this.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
I wouldn't think no.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
So, Mario, you want to give us a Catholic
perspective on this.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
Catholic Christian, I think.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Catholic Christian yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
I think the whole issue is interpreted from the
well, no, let me do this.
You do it because you're betterat when it comes to the
Scripture interpretation.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Oh, okay, all right, I can do that, rudy, are you in
agreement with that?
Speaker 5 (13:06):
Yeah, yeah, all right , I can do that.
Rudy, are you in agreement withthat?
Yeah, give it a go Okay.
I mean we're kind of in thesame page, it's just the serpent
.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
I think the identity of the serpent ends up being
interesting and important.
Here we have the text beginswith the serpent in chapter 3.
Now remember that God hascreated as kind of a setup.
God has created humanity, andGod has created everything light
(13:37):
and darkness, and land and dryland and such the seas and then
God has created Genesis, chapter2.
It is not good that man shouldbe alone.
So God creates the animals inthe same manner that he's going
(13:57):
to be creating others, and thennone of those were found to be
helpmates I'm not sure that's agreat translation of that but a
companion for Adam.
So God made we've got to take abreak here.
God made, then the woman whocomes out of man, and man has
just this wonderful poeticresponse she is now bone of my
(14:20):
bone, flesh of my flesh.
She shall be called Eshahbecause she was taken out of.
Esh.
So, at any rate, it's greatpoetry in its day, and so that
sets us up for chapter three.
In chapter three, though, wesee that they are in the Garden
of Eden, and then somethinghappens in the Garden of Eden,
(14:42):
and we're going to talk aboutthat.
I guess, father Mario, when wecome back from the break.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
Yep, can we do that?
Yep, this is 1070 KNTH and wewill be right back.
Speaker 9 (14:52):
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This is the Big 1070.
The answer Johnny Angel.
Johnny Angel.
Speaker 7 (17:01):
Johnny Angel, you're an angel to me, johnny Angel.
How I love him, how I tinglewhen he passes by.
Every time he says hello, myheart begins to fly, johnny
(17:26):
Angel, how I want him begins tofly.
He's got something that I can'tresist, but he doesn't even
know that I exist.
I'm in heaven.
I get carried away.
(17:47):
I dream of him and me and howit's gonna be.
All the fellas call me up for adate, but I just sit and wait.
I'd rather concentrate onJohnny Angel, cause I love him
and I pray that someday he'lllove me, and together we will
(18:12):
see how lovely heaven will be.
And together we will see howlovely heaven will be.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Welcome back to A Show of Faith on AM 1070.
The answer we are answeringemails.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Right tonight from Mark Presbyterian Mark, yes
Asked the question of and fromGenesis, chapter 3, who or what
is the servant Now here?
I think I would disagree withmy friend Rabbi Stuart Svetter.
Speaker 7 (18:42):
You're wrong, you're wrong.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
I think, yeah, he's is represented as a serpent, and
yet there is more to him thanthat.
He's not just a regular run ofthe mill snake.
First of all, he's a talkingsnake, and and there aren't too
many talking snakes they, they,they didn't.
Most people would haveunderstood Don't, don't, just
(19:04):
interrupt me.
Did I say don't?
I didn't say that, Justinterrupt me.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Did I say a word?
I didn't say a word.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
You went.
Anyway, I think we're tounderstand.
There's something differentabout this snake.
Now.
In the ancient world he wouldhave been understood probably as
some sort of an angelic ordivine being of some sort, not a
divine being over against God,superior to God, but someone
(19:30):
maybe is a part.
Some would say the heavenlycouncil, or some would say
different kinds of things.
So I take him as for more thanjust a serpent, because he's a
talking serpent and he ends uptripping up Eve and Adam along
the way, but it's a talkingserpent with nefarious
intentions.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
Exactly, yeah, with malevolent intentions.
Mischievous.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Mischievous yeah, mischievous is another way of
putting it.
And so a great book on thisPresbyterian Mark is a book by
Michael Heiser, who's written abook called the Unseen Realm.
I'd recommend that book to you,michael Heiser, the Unseen
Realm, because he ends up goingin a lot of different directions
(20:14):
from the history and traditionsof the times of the ancient
world and how these things mighthave been taken or understood.
The tree that's in the middleof the garden, yes, is the tree
of the knowledge of good andevil, the tree of the knowledge
of good and evil, which I taketo be not just knowledge,
knowing about something buthaving experiential knowledge of
(20:38):
and such.
And control and a wishing ofcontrol, right, yeah, yeah, when
you talk about 14 to 15, let meread those verses one more time
.
The Lord said to the serpent hesaid because you've done this,
cursed are you.
Above all, the livestock Onyour belly shall go dust.
You shall eat all the days ofyour life.
(20:59):
I'll put enmity between you andthe woman, between your
offspring and her offspring.
I'll put enmity between you andthe woman, between your
offspring and her offspring.
He shall bruise, that is, theoffspring of Eve, will bruise
your head.
You shall bruise his heel,which is understood historically
as an early vision of thegospel.
(21:21):
Yes, proto-evangelium is whatit's often referred to.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
And Father Mario, you may have kind of.
No, that's basically it.
I mean, it's a propheticunderstanding of the conflict
that is about to occur Right and, from our perspective as
Christians, it's what's calledthe proto-evangelium, in other
words, it's forecasting theconflict that Jesus will come in
and Jesus will— An offspring ofthe woman, that's right.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Not all offspring, but offspring meaning a singular
.
That's correct Offspring willbe the one who ultimately
crushes the head of theopposition at that point, and
it's understood in that sense,in between a contest, as it were
, between jesus and the deviland basically all of this is big
(22:10):
difference between judaism, theinterpretation that judaism
enormous.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Yeah, and operative term is interpretation, yeah
interpretation for us?
Speaker 4 (22:19):
uh, beginning with saint augustine in the fourth
century, uh, this wasinterpreted as the beginning of
what's called the fall, and thefall is that human beings broke
with God and they lost theirsense of who they are.
I always like to enjoy askingpeople when Adam and Eve eat of
(22:41):
this, they find they're naked.
And I've always found it veryinteresting that God is walking
in the garden and he says AdamEve, where are you?
And Adam says I was naked, sowe were naked and so we hid.
And I love the next sentencewho told you you were naked?
In other words, when you're inthe bathroom taking a shower, do
(23:02):
you need anybody to tell youyou're naked?
Well, of course not.
Why would God ask that unlessthe whole concept of nakedness
not enter the humanconsciousness?
And for me it's veryinteresting that the human, for
all this evolution that we talkabout in secular culture, it's
interesting that the humanperson, the human being, is the
(23:25):
only one who wears clothes.
I always tell people go home,tell your dog you're naked.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Yesterday.
Yesterday was it Sunday.
Today we saw a dog with alittle skirt on.
Speaker 5 (23:39):
Rudy Rudy, yeah, sorry about that no, no, I just
wanted to add that, as Catholicsand this is probably where we
differ from you guys, and thisis from the catechism, right but
the Christian tradition, atleast the Catholic tradition in
(24:00):
this case sees this particularpassage too as the announcement
of the New Eid.
So Mary, the mother of Christbecause you know, this is one of
the things that is quitedivisive of many Protestants and
Catholics, of many Protestantsand Catholics, is the Immaculate
(24:21):
Conception and Mary's role orveneration, if you will.
So this is quite an importantpassage, right, and it kind of
foreshadows Revelations 2, but Iknow we've got to go to it.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
Yeah, so almost a premonition of Eve at this point
.
A premonition of Eve at thispoint, that this A premonition
of Mary.
Sorry, sorry.
A premonition of Mary out ofEve, of Mary, yeah, yeah, good
right.
Speaker 4 (24:46):
Okay, this is TANTH 1070, the Answer, and we will be
right back.
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Speaker 1 (27:09):
The Answer.
There is a season and a time toevery purpose A time to be born
, a time to die, a time to plant, a time to reap, a time to kill
(27:34):
, a time to heal, a time to read, a time to kill, a time to heal
, a time to laugh, a time toweep.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Well, welcome back to a show of 35 and 10-7.
The Answer.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
All right, stuart.
Who's next?
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Now we're turning to Debbie in Spring, and she asked
the following.
First question, the medicalassistance in death law in New
York, which we discussed a fewweeks ago.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Well, we talked about that last week.
Yeah, last week.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Okay.
Ben Franklin's famous responsewas a republic if you can keep
it.
Maintaining a republic andliberty requires virtue.
How do we maintain a virtuoussociety if the government is
legalizing sin?
Speaker 4 (28:18):
well, it all depends on what kind of sin I mean you
can legalize.
For example, we triedprohibition.
Okay, and depends on whoseconcept of sin and prohibition
brought even worse and which sinthey're not all the same, yeah
so.
So I mean, the governmentcannot legalize, cannot legalize
(28:39):
.
How should I say this enforcevirtue by law.
You can't, you can't, yeah, youcan no.
I mean, you can't do it,totally no, but you can push
people in the right direction.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
That is correct.
The laws of desegregation.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
That is correct.
Yes but you can't totally turnsociety.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
No you can't, because you can't by law change a
person's heart.
No, you can't.
But you can control theirbehavior, that's right.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Yeah, I do think that our founding fathers expected
that the people who would beruling and the people who would
be making decisions and thosekind of things would be virtuous
people, that they would bepeople, not necessarily perfect
people, but people who knew whatthe virtues are and pursued the
(29:26):
virtues significantly in theirlife, whether religious or not.
Not all virtues are religiousvirtues.
Speaker 4 (29:36):
The problem is that you don't know where the line of
virtue is.
For example, can you make a lawlimiting the amount of, say,
alcohol that you can drink?
Speaker 2 (29:47):
We tried that, as you said earlier.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
The more you try to control some things, the worse
you make it.
So I don't know that that linecan be drawn, that you can say
that the government can onlylegalize virtue.
You can push people in thatdirection, but you can't outlaw
sin in all things.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
But I think that what we can do is use the law to
make statements about our values.
That's correct.
In other words, we can say thatthere's a law for the past 20,
30 years about a hate crimeRight the past 20, 30 years
about a hate crime Right that ifa person does something, it's
(30:38):
one kind of law, but if they doit as a result of prejudice, If
it becomes, yeah.
Because we are making a valuejudgment that one act is worse
than another act.
Yeah, and we're putting it inlaw.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Yeah, and that's the effectiveness of law.
I think, yeah, I think law doesexpect a certain amount of
virtue of people, but it doesn'tnecessarily, it doesn't
guarantee it.
But the government should notbe I don't think saying that
suicide is A-OK.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
Let's go to Rudy.
Rudy, do you have anything tocomment on this?
Speaker 5 (31:14):
Yeah, I was going to say no.
No, that there's a good sayingby St Pope, john Paul II it's a
society that does not recognizethat there is a law above the
law, a moral law that, in humannature and divine reason,
becomes tyranny of majority will.
(31:38):
Right, but the church clearlyteaches that civil law must be
rooted in natural law.
But they're not the same thing,right, that's right.
It's supposed to reflect amoral order.
If you will and you can—I thinkwe have an easier time dealing
(32:00):
with the negatives.
Right, like thou shalt notmurder, like that's a.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
The big ones.
Speaker 5 (32:06):
That's a very kind of right and thou shalt not steal.
We can granularly get down tookay, but what about land?
What about your car?
What about you know, breakingsomebody's property?
So you can from these main laws.
That's where we kind of haveextracted a lot of our human law
, if you will, or civil law.
(32:27):
I mean, I think that I agreewith Salt and Mara.
I can't tell you, david, behumble, or David, be giving with
your things and think aboutothers.
You can't root that into a sortof civil code.
Now, there are certain thingsthat you can do for if you see a
(32:50):
crime, to report it, or if youknow it to not become an
accomplice, but again, I thinkit's always in the negative
fashion, if that makes any sense.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
Yeah, I think too.
You know, by generosity you canput initiatives in the tax code
to encourage people to begiving.
But that's not the.
That is a law, but it's adifferent sort of law.
I know we got to get on to thenext question.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
And it doesn't make them generous.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
It merely entices them to give.
It's not the same thing.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
No, that's true.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Generosity is a character, is part of a
character, but the act you canlegislate and that is hey, you
want a tax break.
Give, charity, Give to charity.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
What's the next?
Speaker 2 (33:33):
question.
Well, the next question— it'ssort of related about—.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
It is related.
Yes, stuart, you want me toread it.
Go ahead.
Yeah, has the Catholic Churchchanged its views on suicides,
people who have committedsuicide being buried in
sanctified ground?
Speaker 4 (33:50):
Yes, of course, the whole issue with suicides.
In the Catholic Church we'vedeepened our understanding.
When a person commits suicide,they really don't want to die,
they want to stop suffering, andso when you lose, suicide is
still a sin.
It's a mortal sin.
But the whole issue is remember.
(34:11):
For a mortal sin in theCatholic Church, you have to
have serious matter.
Which suicide is sufficientreflection and full consent of
the will.
When you are in a state ofintense suffering, you can't
give full consent of the willbecause you can't have clarity.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Right, it's the same thing in Judaism.
You can't be for lack of abetter term insane, and you can
assume that they were not intheir right mind when they
killed themselves.
Speaker 4 (34:38):
Yes, so anybody can be buried in holy ground.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
Okay, and is that true in Judaism too, Stuart?
That anybody can be buried Notanybody but a Jewish person
who's committed a mortal Right.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
There are certain things that they will recommend
in Jewish laws and traditions.
For example, they're not goingto get a glorified eulogy.
Okay, they're not going to be.
I've seen bunches of cemeteriesand I've never really
understood the idea of a betterarea of the cemetery.
It's a cemetery, but you don'tput them in a place of honor in
(35:16):
the cemetery if they'vecommitted suicide.
But yes, they still get all therights and services for suicide
.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Here's the question for you, stuart.
I can't answer this for you.
Is being a Jew based onbloodline or race?
Speaker 2 (35:33):
No, If it was, you can't convert to become a Jew.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Well, that's the next part of the question.
It's not bloodline, it's notrace, right, right?
So, since it is, you canconvert.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
A person can convert and become a Jew.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
So a non-Jew In the book of Esther, 8th chapter.
Okay.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
Okay, so are they fully Jewish?
A non-Jew?
You have that in the book ofEsther, eighth chapter.
Okay.
Okay, so are they fully Jewish?
Yes, are they treated fully?
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Jewish.
Well, jews have creeps too, but, yes, they're supposed to be
fully Jewish and treatedcompletely and utterly as a Jew,
and the fact that theyconverted is never supposed to
even be spoken about them.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
Oh really.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Okay, you know people are still people, right, but
it's really that explicitlystated in Jewish laws and
traditions.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
Yeah, yeah, right, really.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
If someone who is Asian or black converts to
Judaism, they are stillobviously Asian or black, but
they're also Jews now becausethey've converted.
But a person can't convert tobecome black.
A person can't convert tobecome Asian.
So being a Jew is not race,it's not bloodline.
Let's see, yeah, it's notbloodline.
(36:48):
Those are the two words sheused bloodline or race.
So it's neither.
We are a nation, and everynation has its rights of
defining who's a citizen anddefining the process of
naturalization to become acitizen.
And for the Jewish nation and Idon't mean the state of Israel-
I'm talking about Jews as anation or people.
(37:08):
The act of naturalization is theprocess of conversion to the
religion.
So we're a nation defined byour religion.
What did God say to Abraham?
I will make you a great culture.
No, I'll make you a greatethnic group.
No, I will make you a greatnation, because that's what we
are.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Interesting Mario.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
No, anything there.
Speaker 4 (37:31):
No, okay.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
What's the next question?
All of these questions havebeen great.
Many of you, most of you, thefive people who responded, have
multiple questions in everyemail and we can't get to all of
them this week.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
Yeah, what about Tom of Alvin?
Tom of Alvin has kind of aninteresting thing.
I would love our millennial tochime in on this one Right, yes.
Speaker 4 (37:56):
What's the?
Speaker 2 (37:56):
question the first one or second one?
Speaker 3 (37:58):
Do the first one.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
Okay, Rudy, this is for you.
I saw something recently thatat first glance was
inspirational.
Later I thought it might beinappropriate in its context.
There was a celebration of asoccer championship immediately
following the final match inEngland.
All the team members werewearing special champions shirts
, except one.
He wore a shirt that readsomething like Jesus, the way,
(38:22):
the truth and the light.
What are your thoughts onexpressing a religious message
at this type of celebration,when the rest of the team is
wearing a specific uniform?
Speaker 4 (38:34):
Rudy.
Speaker 5 (38:36):
Yeah, I don't know, I don't think I care too much, if
that makes any sense.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Yeah, you don't care too much about that.
You mean you don't like it?
Speaker 2 (38:50):
No, you don't care what he wears.
We're not sure what you mean.
Speaker 5 (38:55):
I mean, what's that right?
Speaker 2 (38:58):
I said we don't know if you meant you were you don't
care about it or you were upsetby it.
Speaker 5 (39:05):
You weren't clear on what you said.
No, no, I don't care.
I guess what I'm saying is Idon't really care for it, you
know.
Oh okay, I think it's just.
I don't know.
I have a weird situation.
Maybe I'm sort of a weirdmillennial in that sense well,
(39:30):
we know that about you.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Anyway, let me ask Father Mario do you have any
thoughts?
Speaker 3 (39:33):
about it.
Speaker 4 (39:34):
I know you're not a sports guy the team owner or the
team captain has the right toset the dress code.
If the team owner or the teamcaptain does not set a dress
code, then you can wear whateveryou want.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
And I would say a person can wear whatever they
want.
However, there is appropriatedress and there's inappropriate
dress and, like you said, theking tapping or the owner of the
team or whoever would be ableto set that.
That's it, yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
Yeah, I'm kind of surprised that there was not
something said that everybodywears this T-shirt the
championship T-shirt when thegame is over, if we win the
thing.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
I probably did you know there's been this.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
We got to take a break.
Let's come back.
Speaker 4 (40:18):
Come back and talk about this.
This is come time.
This is a comeback.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
You sounded like me 10 minutes ago.
Speaker 4 (40:25):
This is KNTH 1070, and we'll be right back.
Speaker 9 (40:29):
AM 1070, the answer.
Speaker 8 (40:31):
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Speaker 9 (42:01):
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Is there a difference?
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After all, communism is thenext step after socialism.
Both know they can changeAmerica by dismantling or
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(42:22):
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Speaker 7 (42:30):
The answer Mr Sandman , bring me a dream.
Make him the cutest that I'veever seen.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
I didn't mean to give you a heart attack with my
singing.
Speaker 7 (42:53):
Like roses and clover , I'm beating my chest in
protest.
I didn't mean to give you aheart attack with my singing.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Welcome back to our show of faith.
Speaker 4 (43:01):
I thought you weren't supposed to curse on me.
Who cursed?
She keeps on saying bum bum,bum, bum.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
That's it, yeah, no, no, all right, we have another
question from Tom of Alvin.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
Yeah, yes.
His second question howimportant is the practice of
self-discipline orself-sacrifice to Judaism and
Christianity?
It always impresses me when adevout Muslim goes through
Ramadan without eating ordrinking during daylight hours.
I know a Hindu woman who usesvacation time so she can spend
nine days in total silence.
It seems to me the mostCatholics, like me, spend our
(43:36):
Lenten season of sacrifice byeating tons of fried fish every
Friday at the KC Hall, or wegive up our Friday night
meatloaf in favor of a rathergluttonous seafood feast at Papa
Do's.
This hardly seems parallel tothe sacrifice and discipline of
other religions.
Speaker 3 (43:50):
Father Mario.
Speaker 4 (43:51):
That is correct.
Speaker 3 (43:53):
What does that mean?
Speaker 4 (43:54):
It means it's a very good criticism, because many
Catholics are not holding to theprinciple of self-denial in
that sense.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
For what?
Speaker 4 (44:07):
Yes, but the problem is, of course, that if you don't
have the spirituality ofself-denial and why you're doing
it, thedenial and why you'redoing it, the whole point of why
you're doing it, then it justbecomes some silly rule that you
say, okay, I'm not going to eatmeat on Friday, on Good Friday,
but I'm going to go out andspend $300 on lobster.
(44:28):
You know so it's just stupid.
So there's some things if youdo it with the right reason, you
know that's great.
Right, the carbonbalah intention?
That's right.
Or, like me, what I used to doin Lent.
I used to give up chocolate andI would spend the entire Lenten
season going oh I needchocolate.
Look, god, what I'm doing foryou.
I'm suffering for chocolate,god, I give up chocolate and
(44:51):
then on Easter Sunday I'd buythe biggest chocolate bar I
could buy and I'd get sickeating.
That was stupid, as if God wasenjoying my suffering.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
That's just dumb Rudy , let me get Rudy the millennial
, let's get the millennial inhere on that.
Speaker 5 (45:11):
I mean it's without understanding the purpose of it.
So to what point I'm always.
I was just reading earlier thismorning the story, the
rebellion of the Maccabees, andit's like the sacrifice right
(45:32):
there that the brothers gothrough, and To me it's that
essentially right.
If you have an understanding ofwhat it is that you're doing
and for what it is that you'redoing, then you're doing it out
of what I would like to callsome sort of love, right?
Whether you know, as a parent,you know, if you tell your child
(45:56):
something, you know, go cleanyour room.
You know whether they do itbecause they know they're going
to get in trouble or they do itbecause they love you and they
don't want to see.
You know, here comes dad orhere comes mom.
He's going to do it for me,right, and I shouldn't put him
through that.
There's still kind of grades tothat which I think lead to
(46:19):
spiritual growth and are sort ofpart of the maturity of the
soul, if you will.
Um, but, but it starts.
Sometimes it starts with withum, with a little bit of
humility, just listening and and, and maybe not understanding
exactly as to the entire extentof why it is that I'm doing this
(46:40):
, right.
I mean I think it kind of playsinto our faith.
I mean as much as I would sayyou guys I mean Rabbi, mario and
David you guys studied theBible and led these religious
lives for longer than I've beenalive.
Speaker 3 (46:58):
Yes, that's indeed true.
Thanks for pointing that out,right.
Speaker 5 (47:04):
But did you really say that you understand all
aspects of the faith?
Speaker 3 (47:09):
Oh, no, no, no no.
Speaker 5 (47:10):
Your faith particularly.
Speaker 3 (47:11):
No.
Speaker 5 (47:12):
Right.
But there's a desire within you, even now, right, to, maybe, I
would say, learn to grow, toshare, to love.
And I think, if you understandthat part of sacrifice, I think
God can kind of use all aspectsof that to let you grow, but
(47:34):
it's always with, what would yousay, a participation from us, a
willing participation from useven though we may not
understand it fully.
Speaker 3 (47:43):
Let's let Stuart talk about Judaism for a second,
because it was about Judaism andChristianity.
Speaker 2 (47:48):
Of course, but all religions, I believe, have some
form of self-denial as aspiritual tool.
You know, the Bible is filledwith people fasting For the Day
of Atonement, yom Kippur, whichcomes in September, october.
(48:08):
It's a fall holiday, holy day,and it's the Day of Atonement.
It's a day spent in prayer, andpart of that observance of the
day is neither eating ordrinking for what amounts to
about 25 hours.
And the purpose is manifold.
First, the Bible says on thatday you will afflict yourself.
(48:35):
And there's biblicalinterpretation and other
interpretation that has alwaysunderstood afflict yourself to
mean fasting, not eating ordrinking.
Okay, it also reminds us thatthere are people who are not
choosing to fast, but whosesituation in life makes them not
able to eat because they'repoor.
(48:57):
And it creates not justsympathy oh, the poor little
poor person.
It creates not just sympathy oh, the poor little poor person.
It creates empathy.
You now know what they feel,but they're not feeling it by
choice, you are.
That should make us moreempathetic.
Okay, so, multiple reasons.
But every religion also has itsmartyrs, where a person is
sacrificing their own life for agreater cause.
(49:19):
So I think that self-disciplineor self-sacrifice is very much
a part of really all religions.
Speaker 3 (49:30):
Yeah, I think that's true.
You talk about Islam and peoplenot eating during Ramadan for a
month eating or drinking duringdaylight hours and having then
minimal food the other times.
You know, the word disciplecomes from a root that means
discipline and disciplesthemselves.
(49:53):
If you're a student, then youdiscipline yourself.
If you're a student of Jesus,if you're a follower of Jesus,
you're going to disciplineyourself.
And you're a follower of Jesusyou're going to discipline
yourself, and you're going to doso out of a desire to please
him, and you're going to do soout of a desire to know him and
know him better.
And it takes all kinds ofmanifestations.
I mean, you've talked, Stuart,about the discipline of not
(50:16):
eating a cheeseburger, Right.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
Or keeping kosher.
Speaker 3 (50:19):
Or keeping kosher right.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
Keeping the Sabbath.
Speaker 3 (50:22):
We have all of our faiths have that, and I do think
that, as Rudy has said, fatherMario has said that we do our
best.
Well, we are at our best whenwe are exercising these
disciplines knowingly andintentionally, not just sort of
accidentally along the way,stuart, yeah.
Speaker 5 (50:45):
Well we're running out of time.
We should go to the nextquestion.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
This is from Clay and all of his questions have been
great questions.
I wish we could get to all ofthem.
But Clay writes Are the Torahand the Holy Bible divine words
of God or collections ofdocuments written by inspired
and well-intentioned men?
Both see, because the Torah isthe first section of the Bible
(51:11):
and the whole of the Bible hasdifferent kinds of literature
and different, differentexpressions of the human spirit
but I think that he's making akind of a false dichotomy
between the Word of God or meninspired.
Speaker 3 (51:31):
A lot of people have made that case.
It's either the Word of God orit's the Word of man.
Can't be both.
That's a very common sort ofattack.
Speaker 4 (51:43):
I always like to use this again.
If I invite you to come and seea gold mine that I have and you
walk in and you think, where'sthe gold?
You are expecting all the wallsto be made out of gold.
Well, that's not the way it is.
There's veins of gold.
You have to dig it out and youhave to separate made out of
gold.
Speaker 2 (52:00):
Well, that's not the way it is.
There's veins of gold.
You have to dig it out.
Speaker 4 (52:01):
You have to dig it out and you have to separate it
from the ore.
Okay, so to my way of thinking,the Bible is the Word of God
embedded in the Word of man,progressing in deeper
understanding in the future.
Speaker 2 (52:17):
And I would agree with that.
But I think there are alsoexplicitly passages that I
really don't think come from god, like I agree the psalms are
written from the human heart,yes, and expression and
expression of experiences, yes.
So I forgot which psalm it is.
David, you'll help me.
Speaker 3 (52:35):
137 I think is one year further dash, my dash.
Speaker 2 (52:39):
The children on the rocks, I don't think comes from
god.
I think that comes fromsomebody who had it happen to
them yeah, okay, yeah, these arepeople who had seen their
children destroyed and killedright on the journey to babylon
right so.
So if you're talking about thetorah, the five books of moses,
the first section of the bible,yes, I would call that from god.
One way or other you have tosay it's from God, because
(53:02):
otherwise, if a human said thoushalt not murder, then another
human can say thou shalt murder.
And who's to say which is thebetter statement except another
human opinion?
So I believe that you reallyhave to say there's a lot of God
in it.
Oh yeah, like the vain lady wewere talking about.
Yeah, that's right, you're sovain.
Speaker 4 (53:24):
This is opposed, of course, to the Muslim
understanding of the Quran,because the Muslim understanding
of the Quran is that everysingle word was dictated by God
to Muhammad.
Muhammad, yeah, it's likewalking into a gold mine and
saying, no, all of the walls aremade of gold.
(53:44):
The Quran is basically not theword of man, it's the word of
God, a hundred percent, everysingle word.
The Quran is not equal to ourBible.
The Quran is not equal to ourBible.
Speaker 3 (53:59):
It's different.
It's a different understandingof it.
Speaker 2 (54:01):
Absolutely, but you know most of the Bible I would
kind of look at that way, theTorah, the five books of Moses,
I would say.
Speaker 3 (54:10):
The difference is, and we've got to go.
How did God do this right?
Is it let down out of heaveninto a person's mind, or did
they, through their experiences,write these things?
Speaker 2 (54:24):
out Was it dictated to Moses and Sinai.
We're going to have to go.
Speaker 3 (54:28):
We can come back to this.
Speaker 4 (54:29):
We can come back to it next week, but, yes, both and
both and both.
And I just want to do ashout-out to Summer, who is a
Jewish nurse who treated me, whoknows you?
Her name is.
Speaker 2 (54:40):
Summer Hi Sharon, who is a Jewish nurse who treated
me.
Who knows you?
Her name is Summer Hi Sharon,who was listening.
Speaker 4 (54:42):
That's right, so this is 1070.
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