March 30, 2025 • 54 mins
What does religious faith have to say about immigration, borders, and national identity?
Our panel tackles one of today's most polarizing moral questions with nuance and compassion, moving beyond typical political talking points to explore deeper ethical principles.
At the heart of our conversation is the theological concept of "Ordo Amoris" or the "Order of Love" – a principle suggesting our moral obligations naturally flow outward from self to family, community, nation, and beyond. Far from limiting our care for strangers, research suggests those who understand this ordering of charity are actually more generous to those in the outermost circles. As Rabbi Stuart explains through the concept of "concentric circles," we're naturally wired to prioritize those closest to us while still extending compassion outward.
The discussion takes fascinating turns as we explore what makes America unique – a place where, unlike most nations, anyone can truly become "American" by embracing certain ideals rather than being born into a specific ethnicity. We bring diverse perspectives, including personal immigrant experiences that illuminate the practical realities often missing from abstract policy debates.
When does a moral obligation to welcome the stranger encounter legitimate practical limitations? How do we balance compassion with responsibility? And what constitutes healthy patriotism versus blind nationalism?
These questions reveal how faith traditions can provide unique frameworks for addressing complex moral challenges that transcend typical partisan divisions.
Join us for this thought-provoking exploration of immigration ethics through multiple religious lenses. Whether you're seeking moral clarity on border policy or simply interested in how faith traditions approach contemporary ethical dilemmas, this episode offers refreshing insight without easy answers.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
there's a man with a gun over there telling me I got
to beware.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I think it's time we stop children.
What's that sound?
Everybody look what's goingdown.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
I really like this song.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
This is one of my favorite songs.
Speaker 5 (00:39):
This is one of my favorite songs much resistance
from behind every time we stop.
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody, look what's goingdown.
Millennial and rabbi discusstheology, philosophy and
morality, ethics anything ofinterest in religion.
If you have any response to ourtopics or any comments
(01:00):
regarding what we say, hey, we'dlove to hear from you.
Please email, email us atashowoffaith1070 at gmailcom.
That's ashowoffaith1070 atgmailcom.
You can hear our shows againand again by listening pretty
much anywhere podcasts are heard.
Our priest is Father MarioArroyo, retired pastor of St
(01:22):
Cyril of Alexandria in the10,000 block of Westheimer.
Hello, our professor is DavidCapes, baptist minister and
director of academic programmingfor the Lanier Theological
Library.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Well done, Stuart.
Speaker 5 (01:34):
I try my best.
Rudy Kong is our millennial.
He's a systems engineer and hashis master's degree in theology
from the University of StThomas.
Speaker 6 (01:43):
Howdy, howdy.
Speaker 5 (01:44):
I am Rabbi Stuart Federo, congregation Sha'ar
Shalom, a Rabbi Emeritus fromthere in the Clear Lake area of
Houston, texas, and Miranda isour board operator, and Miranda
helps us sound wonderful.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
I want to know why it is that I am retired pastor and
you are Rabbi Emeritus.
What's the difference?
That's a legitimate question, Idon't know.
Are are rabbi emeritus.
What's the difference?
That's a legitimate question.
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (02:08):
Are you given the emeritus status?
I don't know what that is.
It's basically an honorarytitle that says thank you for
your service.
That's all that I know of.
Speaker 6 (02:19):
Mario, as a prestigious attendee and member
of St Cyril of Alexandria, Igrant you the emeritus title for
the rest of your life.
Speaker 5 (02:28):
Well learned and well deserved.
How long?
Speaker 3 (02:30):
were you there 26 years?
Speaker 5 (02:33):
I was at my synagogue for 28.
So two more years maybe youwould have gotten.
You just quit too early, Mariosorry.
Quit a little bit too early.
You are the show director.
Sorry, it went a little bit tooearly.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (02:46):
You are the show director, Mario.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
I am the show director today and we are going
to be talking.
I sent these two guys, thesethree guys actually, an article
and the article is entitled letme pull it up here.
Is entitled let me pull it uphere.
Is entitled A.
Speaker 5 (03:09):
Catholic.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Defense of Enforcing Immigration Laws.
Now, the reason I found itinteresting, an interesting
discussion and this is what I'dlike to be able to focus our
attention on is, first of all,why does it, why does the
enforcement of immigration lawsneed to be defended?
(03:32):
And I think that it's becausethere is a disagreement not only
with how shall I say?
Not only in the nation, youknow, between Democrats and
Republicans and stuff like thatbut there is also a disagreement
internally in the CatholicChurch, because the Catholic
(03:52):
Church, in and of itself, hasthe affirmative duty, or states,
the duty of nations that arewell off, to receive immigrants
and, at the same time, becauseof our common humanity.
Speaker 5 (04:13):
Well, but see, that to me is the real reason why any
religion would have somethingto say about immigration,
because it's a moral issue,that's right, and that's why I
wanted us to discuss it from theperspective.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Right, and that's why I wanted us to discuss it from
the perspective.
Pope Francis wrote a letter tothe American bishops criticizing
a little bit about Pope.
I mean, what's his name?
Vance, vice President Vance,because Vice President Vance had
used a theological concept thatwe're going to talk about
called the Ordo Amoris or theOrder of Love, or the Order of
(04:48):
Charity, to defend some of theimmigration policies of the
Trump administration, and sowhat I would like to focus our
attention on is not necessarilya political discussion.
That's not the issue.
Speaker 8 (05:04):
It's a moral issue.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
There are times that you can discuss that politically
, but the three of us belong toI mean the four of us belong to
religions that have moralstatements about the issues of
the day.
I would hope so.
Using this article as a jumpingoff point, I wanted to get
(05:26):
people's you guys' opinions andhave a discussion about not only
the order of love what's calledyou will hear me refer to it as
the Ordo Amoris.
Speaker 5 (05:37):
What did Vance say about that, though?
How was he misusing it?
Speaker 3 (05:41):
I don't think he misused it.
Oh okay, I don't think hemisused it.
So the Pope's letter was, uh,supporting it no, no, the pope's
letter was saying that the umordo amoris, as interpreted by
vance, was negating the uh.
In other words, it was too farin one direction.
(06:03):
Okay, and the pope was sayingyou need to welcome the
immigrants.
Yes, the Ordo Amoris is correct, but at the same time, you're
relying a little too much onthat and you need to welcome the
immigrants.
David, were you about to saysomething?
(06:33):
It seems to me, as I read thearticle that this point of
contention could be, if you had.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Pope John Paul II in a room and if you had Pope
Francis in a room they woulddisagree, I wouldn't doubt it
evidence that he was drawing onto sort of, in a way, support
the idea, some of the ideas, ofwhat the morality of limiting
part of it is.
Is there a morality in limitingimmigration?
(06:56):
Is there a morality in limitinga kind of immigration that
includes people who are in factbreaking the laws of the host
nation, which seems to me to becontrary to the Ordo Amoris, as
does the idea that we couldpossibly take in anyone and
(07:19):
everyone at the same sort ofpace and, yes, welcome them.
And yet sometimes it might bethe most loving and the right
thing to do is to send them toanother nation or say we cannot
accept anymore at thisparticular time we just don't
have the infrastructure.
It seems to me that thecatechism does put some limits
(07:43):
on the idea we we do as awelcoming nation, a host nation,
to the best of our ability, andif it gets beyond our ability,
and we aren't able, then thereare—it is just and right within
the nation to call for certainlimits.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Okay, stuart, do you want to talk a little bit more
about that?
You had some interestingcomments about the order of
moras.
Speaker 5 (08:09):
That's Latin and ours is more.
Hebrew.
At any rate, when I read thearticle, it reminded me of a
kind of concept, I guess, inJudaism, which is the same basic
thing.
The order of love means thatthere is a certain emphasis on
(08:32):
the closer a person is Like thepeople around you.
Your own nation takesprecedence over the people who
are not in your nation.
That is what I would callconcentric circles.
That is what I would callconcentric circles, and there's
(08:56):
a concept, badly translated ascharity, which is basically the
idea of concentric circles.
I'm sure you all have heard thesaying charity starts at home.
Well, home becomes the innercircle and the innermost circle
is yourself, and that may soundgreedy and selfish, but bear
with me.
The next circle outsideyourself becomes your immediate
(09:17):
family.
The next circle outside of thatbecomes aunts, uncles, cousins.
The next circle outside of thatbecomes, you know, like your
neighborhood, then your city,then your county, then your
state, then your nation.
Okay, in other words, yourobligation to help people starts
from the inner circles andmoves to the outer circle, and I
really wish I could rememberthe article.
(09:37):
I wish I could remember whowrote the article.
I wish I could remember thestudy that they cited.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
I think you should say I think I should, I think
I'd like to remember uh, yes, Iwould like to remember just this
period.
Speaker 5 (09:50):
Okay, thank you.
But what it said is that forthose groups who have this
concept of order of love, forthose who have this concept of
you start with the inner circlesfirst, you are far more likely
to help people in the outercircles than those who believe
(10:11):
that you should just helpeverybody and this generic let's
all help each other and holdhands and sing Kumbaya and love
each other.
Because the people who aretrained from the beginning, from
birth, like we treat inreligion and we teach our
religion, they're taught to giveto the people around them.
They're taught to give to thecircles as they get larger, so
(10:34):
they learn to give.
The people who have this ideaaccording to the study, people
have this idea of everybodyshould be helped.
Let's help everybody andthere's no order, there's no
sense of from the inner circleto the outer circle are less
likely to give to anybody.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Yeah, I think you mentioned, and I agree with you,
that it really is thedifference between conservatives
and progressives.
Speaker 5 (11:02):
And progressives feel that it's not up to them, it's
up to the government to help.
That's right.
And even though they think,well, we should help everybody
and let's open the borders andbe nice to everybody, they tend
not to give to anybody and theytend to dump the responsibility
not on themselves, god forbidbut rather on the government.
And it's a radical differencein in.
(11:24):
In my opinion, it's a radicaldifference between progressives
and conservatives, becauseconservatives want less
government and they feel theobligation on themselves to do
things like oh, I don't knowcharity yeah, rudy, you want to
jump in?
Speaker 6 (11:41):
yeah, I just I I wanted to say say that the
article really does try to dojustice to, I would say, how
truly divided Catholics are inAmerica, a lot of the world
really, and I don't know if it'sall Mario, I mean normally
(12:07):
Catholics we tend to vote 50-50,like 50% Republican, 50%
Democrat.
That's kind of how it's playedout the last couple elections
and it's quite a large vote andthere's a lot of immigrants too
that are coming over that areCatholic right vote, and there's
a lot of immigrants too thatare coming over that are
(12:28):
catholic right.
So I think that that vote isgoing to become um, more and
more contested, if you will.
And I think and of course it's,it's uh, it it's just kind of
the politics of each individual,right.
But I just I wanted to mentionone thing and something that
kind of struck me and it kind ofhas a lot to do with the rabble
I was saying is I find thatthere's a real fundamental
(12:49):
hypocrisy that we kind of livein, because we have a lot of
people, especially on the left,that tend to argue that this is
conquered land, that this landdoesn't belong to us, that it
was taken by the Europeans, thatthis land doesn't belong to us,
that it was taken by theEuropeans, and yet I find that
(13:09):
it's these same people that areopening borders and inviting
more people to come to land thatthey don't rightly own anyways.
It's just something quiteinteresting.
Now I know we have to kind ofgo to a break here in a little
bit.
Speaker 5 (13:22):
About a minute.
Speaker 6 (13:23):
What I find, and kind of to the rabbi's point too,
and something that Dr Case wasleading to, is something
Augustine was talking about,since one cannot do good to all,
right, so this order of lovebecomes fundamentally more and
more important, right, and somany people, we want world peace
(13:46):
and we want to end hunger, andwe want nobody to die and nobody
to suffer, which is a greatthing.
Speaker 5 (13:53):
And which is true, we don't.
Speaker 6 (13:55):
Yeah, yeah.
But I think the exercise ofthese sort of guiding principles
is what kind of gets us out ofwhack.
Right, because it's how weapply these virtues, I would say
right.
That kind of really loses itsnotion.
And there's a couple of otherpoints too that I wanted to talk
(14:18):
about patriotism.
But maybe we can do that.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Yeah, I do want to talk about patriotism when we
come back, because it's a very.
I think patriotism is underfire in a lot of places and I
think it's important for us totalk about a balanced notion of
patriotism.
But we shall do that when wecome back.
This is 1070 KNTH and you'relistening to a show of faith
(14:42):
here, and we will be right back.
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At the Colorado Rocky MountainHigh.
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Welcome back to Rocking out the high Colorado.
Welcome back to A Show of Faithon AM 107, the Answer.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
You know I'd like to pursue this area that Rudy kind
of stated, and I'll give all ofus a chance to come in here.
But I'd like to open thediscussion by reading a
paragraph on what Americanpatriotism ought to be like, and
(18:32):
so listen to this.
I thought it was very, verywell done.
American patriotism, properlyunderstood, has never been the
reflexive support of my country,right or wrong, but instead has
always been the reflective,self-critical posture of my
(18:53):
country because it is dedicatedto the right.
This requires that wecontinually work to maintain and
improve the justice of ourcountry.
Work to maintain and improvethe justice of our country.
Americans love America becauseit is their own and because it
is good.
Our ability to detach ourselvesfrom America and decry its
(19:21):
injustices only increases ourattachment to it as a continuing
project of justice for allattachment to it as a continuing
project of justice for all.
Speaker 5 (19:27):
Wasn't there a saying a million years ago that seems
to have fallen out of favor mycountry, right or wrong, but if
wrong, let me work to make itright?
Speaker 3 (19:35):
That's basically what this is saying.
Speaker 5 (19:37):
It's supposed to be.
Yeah, where did that go?
Speaker 3 (19:44):
I have no idea.
Speaker 6 (19:47):
Rudy, you want to make a comment, and then david,
you know, I I find that thatwhat we, what we define as a
country, is and I think theargument that I was trying to
make is is eroding or beingeroded, in the same way that the
significance of the familynucleus is being sort of
attacked and eroded too, and Ithink a lot of work is being put
(20:15):
to label patriotism,nationalism, proud of being an
American.
It seems like there used to be atime not too long ago, 50, 60,
70 years ago, where you couldsay, yeah, I'm proud to be an
American.
It seems like there used to be atime, not too long ago, 50, 60,
70 years ago, where you couldsay, yeah, I'm proud to be an
American, and that was somethingto be sort of something that
(20:35):
you could kind of boast about,right, like, yeah, you're from
America, you know, and now youjust don't really see that, or I
don't hear it, right.
I mean you hear about theseEuropean countries and France
and English.
I mean it seems like there'sjust sort of distaste, mostly
for your own country, right, andI just I mean, I think there's
(20:57):
a lot of people that truly areproud to be American, to say
that this is my country, andespecially immigrants that have
come to this country and reallyworked hard to establish
themselves, built theirbusinesses, their family, sent
them to school right.
So there's great stories wherethis is possible, but I think,
unfortunately, it's just beingsort of flooded out by sort of
(21:21):
this wave of this kind ofneo-modern globalist citizen.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
It's also the this is something we haven't talked
about a lot lately, but iscritical race theory and
critical theory in a sense, inthe sense that it examines
everything and it tends to lookup the behind of everything that
values that we value, and it'sbasically a Marxist idea of
(21:54):
criticizing to tear downsubversion.
Speaker 5 (21:57):
It's called subversion.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Yeah, david, you want to jump in?
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Yeah, I thought it was fascinating.
You know I'm a biblicaltheologian so I always think in
terms of Bible first.
I know that drives Mario crazy,but that's just sort of what.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
I do.
Don't say that I'm against theBible.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
I'm not, I'm just kidding, are you?
Don't say that I'm against theBible, I'm not, I'm just kidding
, it's just a joke, are you?
It's just like you know,talking about his love for
sports.
It's kind of a joke, but at anyrate, I thought it was
fascinating, and I've neverthought about this before.
As we think about locating theideals of patriotism in the
(22:39):
Bible, where do we find it?
Well, the world was obviouslyvery different back in the world
of the Bible.
But what the writer did hereand I think others, maybe
Augustine and Aquinas as well,talked about it in regard to the
Fourth Commandment and I knowwe number the commandments
(23:07):
differently, but the one inparticular honor your father and
mother, that your days may belong in the land, et cetera.
And, stuart, I'd be interestedto what you thought about what
the article said, because ittakes the idea of patriotism and
love of country and sort oflocates it squarely there,
because people are a human being, every human being finds their
identity in their family andthen every human being finds
(23:31):
their identity ultimately in thenation to which their family
belongs, and so it locates theidea of patriotism within that.
I thought that was fascinating.
I never really thought about it, those in that term before that
.
The honoring of father andmother is similar to, and really
(23:51):
kind of a component, part ofhonoring ancestors generally who
are members of and part of thestate not state, but part of the
nation.
Speaker 5 (24:03):
Yeah steward, you want to, just you got david,
when I read that in the articleI understood what it was saying
because it goes to the idea ofthe inner circle to the outer
circle.
But I still, I still thought itwas a bit of a stretch,
honoring your parents to closefeelings of.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
But what if you just say honoring your family and
that reminds me.
But remember the wordpatriotism comes over patris
Right.
Which means father.
Speaker 5 (24:36):
And I understand it.
But going from that commandmentto the idea, I don't, I just I
just thought it was a bit of astretch that's all it is, but
I'll.
But I will tell you somethingthat it reminded me of.
There is a book, uh-oh well, wegot it.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
No, no, let's go to the break.
Hold on to that.
Yeah, this is 1070 kndh.
We'll be right back.
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Amen.
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Amen.
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By the way, I just want to give a shout out to some
really good people, hi, goodpeople that I met at Hilltop
Lakes, texas, hilltop Lakes,texas.
I celebrated Mass there thislast Sunday, sunday, a week ago,
and it's what did you celebrate?
Mass.
Speaker 5 (28:56):
Oh, the Eucharist, you know, yes, that thing, yeah,
hilltop Lakesist you know?
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Yes, that thing, yeah , hilltop Lakes, it's different.
I found out there's adifference between Hilltop Texas
and Hilltop Lakes, texas.
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I hope you didn't go to the wrong one.
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No, I almost did.
No, no One is south of SanAntonio and the other one is
about two hours northwest ofhere.
It was very, very enjoyable.
So any of you who are out there, Hilltop Lakes, hello, Hello
hello.
So we were talking, you weretalking about you were about to
(29:29):
mention a book.
Speaker 5 (29:29):
There's a book it's 1963, I think it's called Cat's
Cradle by Kurt Vonnegut, andit's a brilliant book and I
would urge anybody who, wellfrankly, doesn't understand or
appreciate religion in generalto read the book.
But in the book it's talkingabout what Kurt Vonnegut
(29:54):
considered to be fake relations,fake closeness, and his example
, which I don't find fake at alland I think speaks to the topic
, mario is, let's say, you're onvacation in Italy, okay, and
while you're there you happen torun across a family and you
(30:15):
find out they're also fromHouston.
There's an automatic feeling ofcloseness and relationship with
them, even though they'recomplete strangers.
But you have this one thingthat may or may not be
considered significant as theworld goes, but it doesn't
matter because you feel acloseness to them.
That's the national.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
That also goes, I think, the to the latin phrase
here is an interesting uhexplanation about the term in
the article.
The term nation designates acommunity based in a given
territory and distinguished fromother nations by its culture.
Catholic social teaching holdsthat the family and the nation
(30:59):
are both natural societies, notthe product of mere convention.
Speaker 5 (31:04):
Exactly, and you wouldn't feel that way, meeting
somebody in the middle ofnowhere from your hometown, if
that weren't true.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
That is correct, Rudy .
You want to jump in?
You know what?
Speaker 6 (31:15):
I'm thinking so it says natural right.
So this is something that isessentially ordered within us,
right?
So we're kind it sort ofGod-given right, and I think
(31:41):
it's important to realize thesethings that when we talk about
our nation, our culture, so muchis sort of trying to be, I
don't want to say erased, butsort of rewritten into the state
, right.
What's the state's culture, andwhat I mean by the state is
this sort of government entity,right?
Speaker 3 (32:02):
Yeah, because the state is very different from the
nation.
Speaker 5 (32:06):
Yeah, it took me a while to understand their
comment in that article, butthat's true.
Yeah, the state is not thenation.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
No, the nation.
How would you understand thedifference, Rudy, between the
state and the nation?
Speaker 6 (32:19):
Well, I think it has exactly to do with what you just
mentioned.
The culture, right, it's thelocal and domestic culture as
you go from the interior or fromthe sort of immediate proximity
of relationships, and then asyou extend it out, right, so I
would call it something likekind of the southern twang that
(32:42):
you can find in the southernstates, right, and this kind of
southern sort of southernhospitality that so many people
talk about.
There's something culturalabout being neighborly.
There's something culturalabout how you treat your
(33:04):
neighbor, the person in need,and it relates to how you treat
your immediate family and thenkind of expand that out.
So, when you push thatresponsibility, go ahead, dr
Fitch.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Oh, sorry, no, I'm just saying I didn't take away
that.
I would still think that's partof the nation, that these
cultural pieces are part of thenation, that the state actually
ends up becoming the kind ofofficial governmental structures
that we all agree on, rightlyor wrongly, and those are the
(33:43):
things that seek to provideorder, sometimes coercively in
some places and other times moreas a voluntary idea.
So the idea of nation I meanwould extend.
I mean when you, when you go toa certain place, let's say
another country, and you livethere for a long time, as soon
as you find somebody who speaksthe same language you do,
(34:05):
there's already an affinity aswell.
Going back to Stuart's example,we are a nation defined to some
degree by language and by thisculture.
Speaker 5 (34:19):
Culture, language and land.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
And land.
Yeah, those are really kind ofkey areas.
So I'm not really sure how,Rudy, you were talking about the
cultural piece, but I wouldstill think that's part of the
nation.
Speaker 6 (34:38):
But you know, I think that's what I was trying to say
is the nation itself is sort ofthe reflection of the culture,
if you will, and then the stateis the sort of the amalgamation
of these kind of cultural normsthat we've put together.
Speaker 5 (34:56):
So it's all okay.
See, Rudy, I would say thestate is the government and the
various governments that run thenation.
So the county, the city, thecounty, the state, you know, DC.
That to me, when I think of theword state, go ahead.
Speaker 6 (35:18):
Well, at the end, they reflect the values of the
culture?
Speaker 5 (35:21):
right, well, they're supposed to.
But, rudy, they're supposed toreflect the values, and you know
, the values of the people inthe nation.
But states don't always do that, dictatorships don't.
Okay, okay, right.
So to me the nation is thepeople, the land, the culture,
(35:50):
but the state is the government,and it may or may not have
anything whatsoever to do withthe nation.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
I find it.
Let me just make a side comment, Because I am Hispanic, I'm
Cuban and I grew up partly inCuba and partly here, and also
because, since I am fluent inSpanish and a lot of my ministry
most of my ministry these daysis done in Spanish, and I find
(36:22):
it interesting that when I likefor example today, I celebrated
Mass at 2 o'clock in theafternoon at San Rafael Catholic
Church St Raphael's CatholicChurch here in West Houston, at
two o'clock, and thecongregation was 100, is within
Spanish, but it was all 100%Hispanic and outside they were
(36:46):
selling Hispanic fruit andeverybody was talking Spanish.
And it was a really interestingexperience of feeling like I
was in another nation, eventhough I'm not, because it was
kind of like cultural groupsexisting within the same nation,
(37:07):
but having to respect eachother.
And I'm sure, for example, uh,that you would be able to speak
rab Rabbi about a Jewish sectionof a city.
Speaker 5 (37:20):
Absolutely.
You also have citywidecelebrations.
You have, don't you have, aGreek Greek festival Festival,
that's the word.
There's a Greek festival.
I think there's an Italianfestival, yeah, okay, but
they're all part of the nation.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Yes, but I think it's interesting here and this might
get us to a differentdiscussion here because I think
that is something that isspecific to the United States
Meaning.
Let me introduce it this way Ican move to Italy, but I will
(37:58):
never be Italian.
Speaker 5 (37:59):
Right.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
I can move to Spain, but I'll be never Spaniard.
I can move to Greece, but I'llnever be Greek.
But you can move to the UnitedStates.
Speaker 5 (38:10):
And become American, become a US citizen.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
And I think it's because that's what makes it
hard being a member of thisnation, because we are.
There are subcultures here thatare identities, almost
sub-nations, if we can call themthat, but we all are Americans,
because America is more of anidea, a sense of belonging to an
(38:39):
experiment.
Speaker 5 (38:41):
And you don't see that as basic elemental
Americanism?
Speaker 3 (38:45):
Yes, and melting pot, and from the many one, I'm
saying that belonging to anAmerica does not necessarily
mean being in Hispanic cultureor Cuban culture or Mexican
culture or Jewish culture.
I think, as long as we sharethe same commitment to the
(39:10):
ideals that binds us together,what binds us together?
Speaker 5 (39:15):
are ideals Right democracy.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
What's interesting is that it's not the land itself
that binds us together.
That's maybe part of it, butit's the ideals of who we are as
an identity.
So it's a supranationalidentity.
So, anyway, we'll come back.
I'd like to just talk aboutthat a little bit when we come
(39:38):
back, especially between Rudyand then, of course, david.
You and Stuart were born here,and so it's interesting to talk
about that.
Speaker 5 (39:48):
Yeah, mario you're a furriner.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
I'm a furriner, so this is 1070 KMTH.
I'm going to be right back.
Speaker 11 (39:55):
AM 1070, the answer.
We've just witnessed anhistoric election where over 75
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Speaker 2 (40:42):
that's info at salem media, houstoncom salem, what
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I'm telling you, salem hasreally done a fantastic job.
I just want to thank you.
You have courage.
You have really courage,because I know it's not easy.
Congratulations.
Speaker 4 (40:55):
Before when I get off work I would grab a couple of
drinks with my friends and theday I got my DWI I was driving
around from bar to bar.
I was going too fast and hit aU-Haul truck.
The DWI cost me around $12,000with lawyer and court costs.
I had a smart start device inmy vehicle.
I needed a blow into it everytime to start my car.
(41:16):
I was embarrassed so I wouldduck down or hide so no one
would see me.
Speaker 10 (41:20):
Drunk driving Isn't worth it.
Drive sober.
No regrets A message from techstock.
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(41:49):
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The Answer here we come.
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Walking down the street All the monkeys.
Speaker 5 (42:01):
Get the funniest looks from everyone we meet.
Speaker 9 (42:07):
Hey, hey, hey, we're the monkeys.
Speaker 5 (42:09):
The keeps say we're monkeying around, but we're too
busy singing to put anybody down, you're where we want to go.
Welcome back to A Show of Faithon I'm 1070.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
This kind of music really dates us, doesn't it?
Speaker 5 (42:26):
Well, nobody else will date us.
Speaker 11 (42:28):
Oh, that was good, thank you.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
Rudy, what would you say?
And then I'd like to get Davidand Stuart in here.
What would you say in terms ofyour experience of belonging?
See, I feel very much anAmerican, but at the same time
there's part of me that is stillsomewhat Cuban.
(42:53):
Yeah, Go ahead.
What was your reflection?
Speaker 6 (42:56):
behind that.
You know, what's interesting isthat I was talking to my wife
and I said to her I miss Texas,I miss it, I miss.
And she's like okay, what doyou miss?
And I was like I mean it's hardto kind of Obviously my
family's there, what do you miss?
And I was like I mean it's hardto to kind of obviously my
family's there.
But you know, and I saidsomething cheeky, I said I
(43:18):
missed the highways and thebarbecue.
Speaker 5 (43:22):
You miss the highways , you're out of your mind.
Speaker 6 (43:24):
Trust me when you spend 45 minutes on traffic just
to go half a block because it'sso gridlocked here because of
terrible urbanization.
But anyways, my point is that Imiss it and of course part of
(43:46):
it is my mom's there, mybrother's there, my niece is
there, my sister is there, Ihave other family members there.
I mean I miss simple thingslike going to HEB Right, going
to the Lifetime Fitness, goingto Terry Hershey Polk.
I mean, when you start lookingat whether you I mean I would
(44:10):
call it the nation offers rightand organized by the state,
let's say right, because we havepublic parks, we have public
roadways, unless you're drivingdown the Beltway, then you're
going to pay probably like 15bucks to go down there, but
anyways it's, but everythingabout it that puts it together,
(44:32):
the people.
But do you feel American?
Speaker 3 (44:42):
See, I do.
I know that there is a little.
Every time the national anthemis played and I see the American
flag, and especially when I'vehad the opportunity to stand
with many hundreds of people andsing the national anthem, I
(45:03):
really get a rush, I cry, yeah,I do I do, I would say I feel
American because I believe inAmerica.
Speaker 6 (45:18):
Do you know what I?
Speaker 2 (45:19):
mean yes.
Speaker 6 (45:21):
I believe and I participate, I vote, I pay my
taxes, I have a home, and so Ifeel like I've participated in
this quote unquote Americandream.
Now I'm back in Guatemala, so II feel like I mean, this is my
home country too, right, but butheck, a lot of people don't
even think I'm from this countrywhen they look at me.
(45:43):
I don't even look a lot of mine, you know.
So they don't even.
So I really feel like in theUnited States, what you were
saying you could look likeanybody in anything and you
could be American.
Speaker 5 (45:53):
It doesn't matter Melting pot.
Speaker 3 (45:56):
But see, that's what I love.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
You're too tall to be Guatemalan, I'm sorry.
Speaker 5 (46:05):
Better nutrition.
Speaker 3 (46:06):
But it is that whole notion what that paragraph said.
Americans love America becauseit is their own and because it
is good.
Our ability to detach ourselvesfrom america and decry its
injustices only increases ourattachment to its continuing
project of justice for all andbecause we are able to do that
(46:29):
without fear of retribution bythe government supposedly david,
take off on this a little bitmore.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
Yeah, no, I appreciate it and I resonate
with a lot of things you'resaying.
I had to think about thatstatement a little bit that you
read earlier about whether it'sright for today, but I think it
is.
I think it's right for todaybecause we can be very proud of
our country For those of uswho've had the opportunity and
(46:57):
the benefits of traveling yourealize how wonderful this place
truly is.
It's not to say that therearen't other beautiful places in
the world.
There aren't other places wherethere's a good standard of
living, because there are placeswhere there's a good standard
of living because there are.
But there's just something veryunique about this project, this
(47:20):
idea of this American dream.
That is what's attracting somany millions of people to our
shores.
Speaker 3 (47:25):
Yeah, you don't see people clamoring to get into
Russia or to Nicaragua or Cuba.
Speaker 5 (47:31):
Or Myanmar, right?
What's his name?
The presidential candidate whowent there on his honeymoon to
Russia?
Speaker 3 (47:39):
Oh yeah, I can't think of his name, bernie.
Speaker 5 (47:40):
Sanders, Sanders, right, right, or what's her name
?
Who just left for you know,because Trump got elected, moved
out of the country.
I can't think of her name RosieO'Donnell.
Rosie Rosie O'Donnell.
Speaker 1 (47:53):
Yeah, went to Ireland yeah.
Speaker 5 (47:55):
Ireland, where it's yeah well.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
So I mean, you know, it's just an amazing country and
we can be proud and we canfight for justice.
We can speak out against thingsthat we think are unjust.
We can agree to disagree rightabout things, hopefully without
becoming too disagreeable.
Speaker 5 (48:18):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (48:20):
But that's what I.
Speaker 6 (48:21):
Can I add Sure, go ahead.
Can I add one more thing that Itruly miss to Nicaragua when I
travel around is that whensomething happens, an accident,
I get pulled over, maybe I get aspeeding ticket and, look, I've
(48:44):
been to certain places whereit's dangerous.
Okay, but truly in the UnitedStates I feel like the police
and the forces there are trulythere to kind of help the
citizens.
I'm not saying everybody'sperfect.
I'm not saying everybody is, butI don't feel like they're going
to try to extort me or try tokidnap me or try to do something
(49:08):
.
So it's just, it's things thatpeople don't understand.
Speaker 3 (49:13):
It really is, because let me tell you just a quick
story my mom, may she rest inpeace.
Speaker 5 (49:20):
I remember your mother.
Speaker 3 (49:21):
My mom when she came to the United States from Cuba,
because we came as exiles fromcommunism in 1960, exiles from
communism in 1960 and my mom,who was probably the most how
(49:41):
should I say scrupulous person,she just she didn't want to
commit any sin.
She just everything was thebest way she could do it.
And she said, mario, I have toconfess I did not know that
bribery was wrong.
Speaker 5 (49:55):
It was a way of life.
Speaker 3 (49:56):
Because it's interesting For my mom.
She said whenever you would getpulled over by a police officer
, it was kind of expected thatyou would give them a tip and
say thank you for letting meknow.
And in giving them a tip theywould let you go.
They wouldn't give them a tipand say thank you for letting me
know, and in giving them a tipthey would let you go.
They wouldn't give you a ticket.
(50:18):
And she said I was.
I grew up with that that thatwas normal.
You know I'm stopping you andgiving you this tip, but it's
actually and when you go to anygovernment office you give a tip
and you get faster service.
It's kind of like a tip, butgiven before the service.
Speaker 5 (50:38):
Right right.
Speaker 3 (50:39):
It's kind of like your server comes over to your
table and you give him a tip andyou say put me first.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
Right, yes, hand off to the maitre d' there's so much
corruption around the worldthat deals in things like that.
So many of the Africancountries, for example, we have
trouble giving.
You know we're trying to give acertain number of books to a
library there.
Let's say and you know thebooks will stay there in customs
until someone is bribed to getthose books on a truck.
(51:06):
You know, they know thatthey've come from America.
Speaker 5 (51:09):
Let's say they know they're going to a library,
Right and all Americans are rich.
Speaker 1 (51:14):
So All Americans in this library must be friends of
ours, but they must be rich too,though they're very poor.
But so much of the worldoperates that way, and Rudy's
right, I mean, it's not a safeplace to be pulled over by
policemen in a lot of countrieslike that.
Speaker 5 (51:33):
You know I've got to react, though, mario, to
something you asked, david and I, about feeling American because
we were born here.
Speaker 2 (51:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (51:42):
I kind of got to remind you that I'm a Jew and
going all the way back to Exodus, all the way back to the Bible,
where a new pharaoh rose overEgypt who did not know Joseph.
And what did he say to theEgyptians?
He said, basically, the Jews,they're not real Egyptians, we
(52:03):
can't trust them.
They'll join our enemies, andthat has been a recurring theme
among anti-Semites, jew haters,ever since.
And there have been things thathappened in my life growing up
in springfield, missouri, justthings that have happened.
But yes, I'm an american and Ican't imagine living anywhere
(52:24):
else.
I have no, I've lost mywanderlust.
I have no intention of leavingfor anything.
Okay, but yeah, there are timeswhere I have been made to feel
I'm not a real American.
I'm going to join our enemies.
Speaker 3 (52:39):
And it's the same thing.
I think if you were AfricanAmerican you would feel somewhat
like that.
Speaker 5 (52:44):
I'm sure Any minority in any ethnic group.
Speaker 3 (52:48):
Yeah, yeah, it feels somewhat like that, but at the
same time, that's what I loveabout it is that it's a country
that you have the opportunity tocontinue to fight for the
integration.
Speaker 5 (53:00):
And because there are laws that protect you, you can
appeal to the laws of the state.
That's correct.
Speaker 3 (53:06):
That's correct.
Yeah, any closing comments.
Gentlemen, david, any closingcomments?
Speaker 1 (53:12):
Yeah, I just think it's a great article because it
helped solidify some things forme about how and why Catholic
folk in particular are a bit,you know, on different sides of
the issue of immigration.
Speaker 3 (53:29):
Stuart.
Speaker 5 (53:32):
No, I basically just added my last two cents worth,
rudy.
Speaker 6 (53:38):
God bless America.
Speaker 5 (53:40):
About 30 seconds.
Speaker 6 (53:42):
Always, always.
Speaker 3 (53:43):
God bless America.
I love that song.
It's amazing to me.
Beautiful for spacious gate.
May God and crown our good.
Speaker 5 (53:55):
With brotherhood from sea to shining sea.
And if you want to know themost beautiful verse of the Star
Spangled Banner, it's thefourth one.
Read it.
Read the fourth verse.
Speaker 3 (54:05):
Read the fourth verse it's phenomenal.
Okay, who is show director nextweek?
Speaker 5 (54:12):
I think it's Rudy, but I'm not sure.
Speaker 3 (54:16):
Okay, whoever it is, we'll talk about it.
Speaker 6 (54:18):
I'm not sure I'll take it.
Speaker 3 (54:19):
Okay, rudy, rudy, rudy.
Speaker 1 (54:21):
I think it's you, you , you.
This is 1070 KMTH.
Speaker 3 (54:24):
You've been listening to a show of faith.
Keep us in your prayers becauseyou are going to be in ours.
Speaker 11 (54:28):
Find us at am1070theanswercom.
Download our apps.
Stream us 24-7.
Knth and K277DE-FM Houston.
there's a man with a gun over there telling me I got
to beware.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I think it's time we stop children.
What's that sound?
Everybody look what's goingdown.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
I really like this song.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
This is one of my favorite songs.
Speaker 5 (00:39):
This is one of my favorite songs much resistance
from behind every time we stop.
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody, look what's goingdown.
Millennial and rabbi discusstheology, philosophy and
morality, ethics anything ofinterest in religion.
If you have any response to ourtopics or any comments
(01:00):
regarding what we say, hey, we'dlove to hear from you.
Please email, email us atashowoffaith1070 at gmailcom.
That's ashowoffaith1070 atgmailcom.
You can hear our shows againand again by listening pretty
much anywhere podcasts are heard.
Our priest is Father MarioArroyo, retired pastor of St
(01:22):
Cyril of Alexandria in the10,000 block of Westheimer.
Hello, our professor is DavidCapes, baptist minister and
director of academic programmingfor the Lanier Theological
Library.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Well done, Stuart.
Speaker 5 (01:34):
I try my best.
Rudy Kong is our millennial.
He's a systems engineer and hashis master's degree in theology
from the University of StThomas.
Speaker 6 (01:43):
Howdy, howdy.
Speaker 5 (01:44):
I am Rabbi Stuart Federo, congregation Sha'ar
Shalom, a Rabbi Emeritus fromthere in the Clear Lake area of
Houston, texas, and Miranda isour board operator, and Miranda
helps us sound wonderful.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
I want to know why it is that I am retired pastor and
you are Rabbi Emeritus.
What's the difference?
That's a legitimate question, Idon't know.
Are are rabbi emeritus.
What's the difference?
That's a legitimate question.
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (02:08):
Are you given the emeritus status?
I don't know what that is.
It's basically an honorarytitle that says thank you for
your service.
That's all that I know of.
Speaker 6 (02:19):
Mario, as a prestigious attendee and member
of St Cyril of Alexandria, Igrant you the emeritus title for
the rest of your life.
Speaker 5 (02:28):
Well learned and well deserved.
How long?
Speaker 3 (02:30):
were you there 26 years?
Speaker 5 (02:33):
I was at my synagogue for 28.
So two more years maybe youwould have gotten.
You just quit too early, Mariosorry.
Quit a little bit too early.
You are the show director.
Sorry, it went a little bit tooearly.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (02:46):
You are the show director, Mario.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
I am the show director today and we are going
to be talking.
I sent these two guys, thesethree guys actually, an article
and the article is entitled letme pull it up here.
Is entitled let me pull it uphere.
Is entitled A.
Speaker 5 (03:09):
Catholic.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Defense of Enforcing Immigration Laws.
Now, the reason I found itinteresting, an interesting
discussion and this is what I'dlike to be able to focus our
attention on is, first of all,why does it, why does the
enforcement of immigration lawsneed to be defended?
(03:32):
And I think that it's becausethere is a disagreement not only
with how shall I say?
Not only in the nation, youknow, between Democrats and
Republicans and stuff like thatbut there is also a disagreement
internally in the CatholicChurch, because the Catholic
(03:52):
Church, in and of itself, hasthe affirmative duty, or states,
the duty of nations that arewell off, to receive immigrants
and, at the same time, becauseof our common humanity.
Speaker 5 (04:13):
Well, but see, that to me is the real reason why any
religion would have somethingto say about immigration,
because it's a moral issue,that's right, and that's why I
wanted us to discuss it from theperspective.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Right, and that's why I wanted us to discuss it from
the perspective.
Pope Francis wrote a letter tothe American bishops criticizing
a little bit about Pope.
I mean, what's his name?
Vance, vice President Vance,because Vice President Vance had
used a theological concept thatwe're going to talk about
called the Ordo Amoris or theOrder of Love, or the Order of
(04:48):
Charity, to defend some of theimmigration policies of the
Trump administration, and sowhat I would like to focus our
attention on is not necessarilya political discussion.
That's not the issue.
Speaker 8 (05:04):
It's a moral issue.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
There are times that you can discuss that politically
, but the three of us belong toI mean the four of us belong to
religions that have moralstatements about the issues of
the day.
I would hope so.
Using this article as a jumpingoff point, I wanted to get
(05:26):
people's you guys' opinions andhave a discussion about not only
the order of love what's calledyou will hear me refer to it as
the Ordo Amoris.
Speaker 5 (05:37):
What did Vance say about that, though?
How was he misusing it?
Speaker 3 (05:41):
I don't think he misused it.
Oh okay, I don't think hemisused it.
So the Pope's letter was, uh,supporting it no, no, the pope's
letter was saying that the umordo amoris, as interpreted by
vance, was negating the uh.
In other words, it was too farin one direction.
(06:03):
Okay, and the pope was sayingyou need to welcome the
immigrants.
Yes, the Ordo Amoris is correct, but at the same time, you're
relying a little too much onthat and you need to welcome the
immigrants.
David, were you about to saysomething?
(06:33):
It seems to me, as I read thearticle that this point of
contention could be, if you had.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Pope John Paul II in a room and if you had Pope
Francis in a room they woulddisagree, I wouldn't doubt it
evidence that he was drawing onto sort of, in a way, support
the idea, some of the ideas, ofwhat the morality of limiting
part of it is.
Is there a morality in limitingimmigration?
(06:56):
Is there a morality in limitinga kind of immigration that
includes people who are in factbreaking the laws of the host
nation, which seems to me to becontrary to the Ordo Amoris, as
does the idea that we couldpossibly take in anyone and
(07:19):
everyone at the same sort ofpace and, yes, welcome them.
And yet sometimes it might bethe most loving and the right
thing to do is to send them toanother nation or say we cannot
accept anymore at thisparticular time we just don't
have the infrastructure.
It seems to me that thecatechism does put some limits
(07:43):
on the idea we we do as awelcoming nation, a host nation,
to the best of our ability, andif it gets beyond our ability,
and we aren't able, then thereare—it is just and right within
the nation to call for certainlimits.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Okay, stuart, do you want to talk a little bit more
about that?
You had some interestingcomments about the order of
moras.
Speaker 5 (08:09):
That's Latin and ours is more.
Hebrew.
At any rate, when I read thearticle, it reminded me of a
kind of concept, I guess, inJudaism, which is the same basic
thing.
The order of love means thatthere is a certain emphasis on
(08:32):
the closer a person is Like thepeople around you.
Your own nation takesprecedence over the people who
are not in your nation.
That is what I would callconcentric circles.
That is what I would callconcentric circles, and there's
(08:56):
a concept, badly translated ascharity, which is basically the
idea of concentric circles.
I'm sure you all have heard thesaying charity starts at home.
Well, home becomes the innercircle and the innermost circle
is yourself, and that may soundgreedy and selfish, but bear
with me.
The next circle outsideyourself becomes your immediate
(09:17):
family.
The next circle outside of thatbecomes aunts, uncles, cousins.
The next circle outside of thatbecomes, you know, like your
neighborhood, then your city,then your county, then your
state, then your nation.
Okay, in other words, yourobligation to help people starts
from the inner circles andmoves to the outer circle, and I
really wish I could rememberthe article.
(09:37):
I wish I could remember whowrote the article.
I wish I could remember thestudy that they cited.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
I think you should say I think I should, I think
I'd like to remember uh, yes, Iwould like to remember just this
period.
Speaker 5 (09:50):
Okay, thank you.
But what it said is that forthose groups who have this
concept of order of love, forthose who have this concept of
you start with the inner circlesfirst, you are far more likely
to help people in the outercircles than those who believe
(10:11):
that you should just helpeverybody and this generic let's
all help each other and holdhands and sing Kumbaya and love
each other.
Because the people who aretrained from the beginning, from
birth, like we treat inreligion and we teach our
religion, they're taught to giveto the people around them.
They're taught to give to thecircles as they get larger, so
(10:34):
they learn to give.
The people who have this ideaaccording to the study, people
have this idea of everybodyshould be helped.
Let's help everybody andthere's no order, there's no
sense of from the inner circleto the outer circle are less
likely to give to anybody.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Yeah, I think you mentioned, and I agree with you,
that it really is thedifference between conservatives
and progressives.
Speaker 5 (11:02):
And progressives feel that it's not up to them, it's
up to the government to help.
That's right.
And even though they think,well, we should help everybody
and let's open the borders andbe nice to everybody, they tend
not to give to anybody and theytend to dump the responsibility
not on themselves, god forbidbut rather on the government.
And it's a radical differencein in.
(11:24):
In my opinion, it's a radicaldifference between progressives
and conservatives, becauseconservatives want less
government and they feel theobligation on themselves to do
things like oh, I don't knowcharity yeah, rudy, you want to
jump in?
Speaker 6 (11:41):
yeah, I just I I wanted to say say that the
article really does try to dojustice to, I would say, how
truly divided Catholics are inAmerica, a lot of the world
really, and I don't know if it'sall Mario, I mean normally
(12:07):
Catholics we tend to vote 50-50,like 50% Republican, 50%
Democrat.
That's kind of how it's playedout the last couple elections
and it's quite a large vote andthere's a lot of immigrants too
that are coming over that areCatholic right vote, and there's
a lot of immigrants too thatare coming over that are
(12:28):
catholic right.
So I think that that vote isgoing to become um, more and
more contested, if you will.
And I think and of course it's,it's uh, it it's just kind of
the politics of each individual,right.
But I just I wanted to mentionone thing and something that
kind of struck me and it kind ofhas a lot to do with the rabble
I was saying is I find thatthere's a real fundamental
(12:49):
hypocrisy that we kind of livein, because we have a lot of
people, especially on the left,that tend to argue that this is
conquered land, that this landdoesn't belong to us, that it
was taken by the Europeans, thatthis land doesn't belong to us,
that it was taken by theEuropeans, and yet I find that
(13:09):
it's these same people that areopening borders and inviting
more people to come to land thatthey don't rightly own anyways.
It's just something quiteinteresting.
Now I know we have to kind ofgo to a break here in a little
bit.
Speaker 5 (13:22):
About a minute.
Speaker 6 (13:23):
What I find, and kind of to the rabbi's point too,
and something that Dr Case wasleading to, is something
Augustine was talking about,since one cannot do good to all,
right, so this order of lovebecomes fundamentally more and
more important, right, and somany people, we want world peace
(13:46):
and we want to end hunger, andwe want nobody to die and nobody
to suffer, which is a greatthing.
Speaker 5 (13:53):
And which is true, we don't.
Speaker 6 (13:55):
Yeah, yeah.
But I think the exercise ofthese sort of guiding principles
is what kind of gets us out ofwhack.
Right, because it's how weapply these virtues, I would say
right.
That kind of really loses itsnotion.
And there's a couple of otherpoints too that I wanted to talk
(14:18):
about patriotism.
But maybe we can do that.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Yeah, I do want to talk about patriotism when we
come back, because it's a very.
I think patriotism is underfire in a lot of places and I
think it's important for us totalk about a balanced notion of
patriotism.
But we shall do that when wecome back.
This is 1070 KNTH and you'relistening to a show of faith
(14:42):
here, and we will be right back.
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He left yesterday behind him.
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At the Colorado Rocky MountainHigh.
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Welcome back to Rocking out the high Colorado.
Welcome back to A Show of Faithon AM 107, the Answer.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
You know I'd like to pursue this area that Rudy kind
of stated, and I'll give all ofus a chance to come in here.
But I'd like to open thediscussion by reading a
paragraph on what Americanpatriotism ought to be like, and
(18:32):
so listen to this.
I thought it was very, verywell done.
American patriotism, properlyunderstood, has never been the
reflexive support of my country,right or wrong, but instead has
always been the reflective,self-critical posture of my
(18:53):
country because it is dedicatedto the right.
This requires that wecontinually work to maintain and
improve the justice of ourcountry.
Work to maintain and improvethe justice of our country.
Americans love America becauseit is their own and because it
is good.
Our ability to detach ourselvesfrom America and decry its
(19:21):
injustices only increases ourattachment to it as a continuing
project of justice for allattachment to it as a continuing
project of justice for all.
Speaker 5 (19:27):
Wasn't there a saying a million years ago that seems
to have fallen out of favor mycountry, right or wrong, but if
wrong, let me work to make itright?
Speaker 3 (19:35):
That's basically what this is saying.
Speaker 5 (19:37):
It's supposed to be.
Yeah, where did that go?
Speaker 3 (19:44):
I have no idea.
Speaker 6 (19:47):
Rudy, you want to make a comment, and then david,
you know, I I find that thatwhat we, what we define as a
country, is and I think theargument that I was trying to
make is is eroding or beingeroded, in the same way that the
significance of the familynucleus is being sort of
attacked and eroded too, and Ithink a lot of work is being put
(20:15):
to label patriotism,nationalism, proud of being an
American.
It seems like there used to be atime not too long ago, 50, 60,
70 years ago, where you couldsay, yeah, I'm proud to be an
American.
It seems like there used to be atime, not too long ago, 50, 60,
70 years ago, where you couldsay, yeah, I'm proud to be an
American, and that was somethingto be sort of something that
(20:35):
you could kind of boast about,right, like, yeah, you're from
America, you know, and now youjust don't really see that, or I
don't hear it, right.
I mean you hear about theseEuropean countries and France
and English.
I mean it seems like there'sjust sort of distaste, mostly
for your own country, right, andI just I mean, I think there's
(20:57):
a lot of people that truly areproud to be American, to say
that this is my country, andespecially immigrants that have
come to this country and reallyworked hard to establish
themselves, built theirbusinesses, their family, sent
them to school right.
So there's great stories wherethis is possible, but I think,
unfortunately, it's just beingsort of flooded out by sort of
(21:21):
this wave of this kind ofneo-modern globalist citizen.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
It's also the this is something we haven't talked
about a lot lately, but iscritical race theory and
critical theory in a sense, inthe sense that it examines
everything and it tends to lookup the behind of everything that
values that we value, and it'sbasically a Marxist idea of
(21:54):
criticizing to tear downsubversion.
Speaker 5 (21:57):
It's called subversion.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Yeah, david, you want to jump in?
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Yeah, I thought it was fascinating.
You know I'm a biblicaltheologian so I always think in
terms of Bible first.
I know that drives Mario crazy,but that's just sort of what.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
I do.
Don't say that I'm against theBible.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
I'm not, I'm just kidding, are you?
Don't say that I'm against theBible, I'm not, I'm just kidding
, it's just a joke, are you?
It's just like you know,talking about his love for
sports.
It's kind of a joke, but at anyrate, I thought it was
fascinating, and I've neverthought about this before.
As we think about locating theideals of patriotism in the
(22:39):
Bible, where do we find it?
Well, the world was obviouslyvery different back in the world
of the Bible.
But what the writer did hereand I think others, maybe
Augustine and Aquinas as well,talked about it in regard to the
Fourth Commandment and I knowwe number the commandments
(23:07):
differently, but the one inparticular honor your father and
mother, that your days may belong in the land, et cetera.
And, stuart, I'd be interestedto what you thought about what
the article said, because ittakes the idea of patriotism and
love of country and sort oflocates it squarely there,
because people are a human being, every human being finds their
identity in their family andthen every human being finds
(23:31):
their identity ultimately in thenation to which their family
belongs, and so it locates theidea of patriotism within that.
I thought that was fascinating.
I never really thought about it, those in that term before that
.
The honoring of father andmother is similar to, and really
(23:51):
kind of a component, part ofhonoring ancestors generally who
are members of and part of thestate not state, but part of the
nation.
Speaker 5 (24:03):
Yeah steward, you want to, just you got david,
when I read that in the articleI understood what it was saying
because it goes to the idea ofthe inner circle to the outer
circle.
But I still, I still thought itwas a bit of a stretch,
honoring your parents to closefeelings of.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
But what if you just say honoring your family and
that reminds me.
But remember the wordpatriotism comes over patris
Right.
Which means father.
Speaker 5 (24:36):
And I understand it.
But going from that commandmentto the idea, I don't, I just I
just thought it was a bit of astretch that's all it is, but
I'll.
But I will tell you somethingthat it reminded me of.
There is a book, uh-oh well, wegot it.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
No, no, let's go to the break.
Hold on to that.
Yeah, this is 1070 kndh.
We'll be right back.
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Speaker 7 (26:30):
Hugh Hewitt believes this is a decision for the
president, I had a law studentyesterday say how do we know
that they're terrorists?
How do we know?
And I said, well, look, a wegot a pretty good read on these
guys by their tattoos.
B they're not American citizens, so I'm not really worried.
But C it's up to the president.
Someone's got to decide.
It's not up to a district courtjudge in DC, the.
Speaker 11 (26:50):
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Johnny Angel, you're an angelto me.
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Shut up, shut up, shut up, shut up.
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Speaker 5 (28:31):
On AM 1070 the Answer .
Speaker 3 (28:33):
Amen.
Speaker 5 (28:34):
Amen.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
By the way, I just want to give a shout out to some
really good people, hi, goodpeople that I met at Hilltop
Lakes, texas, hilltop Lakes,texas.
I celebrated Mass there thislast Sunday, sunday, a week ago,
and it's what did you celebrate?
Mass.
Speaker 5 (28:56):
Oh, the Eucharist, you know, yes, that thing, yeah,
hilltop Lakesist you know?
Speaker 3 (28:59):
Yes, that thing, yeah , hilltop Lakes, it's different.
I found out there's adifference between Hilltop Texas
and Hilltop Lakes, texas.
Speaker 5 (29:07):
I hope you didn't go to the wrong one.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
No, I almost did.
No, no One is south of SanAntonio and the other one is
about two hours northwest ofhere.
It was very, very enjoyable.
So any of you who are out there, Hilltop Lakes, hello, Hello
hello.
So we were talking, you weretalking about you were about to
(29:29):
mention a book.
Speaker 5 (29:29):
There's a book it's 1963, I think it's called Cat's
Cradle by Kurt Vonnegut, andit's a brilliant book and I
would urge anybody who, wellfrankly, doesn't understand or
appreciate religion in generalto read the book.
But in the book it's talkingabout what Kurt Vonnegut
(29:54):
considered to be fake relations,fake closeness, and his example
, which I don't find fake at alland I think speaks to the topic
, mario is, let's say, you're onvacation in Italy, okay, and
while you're there you happen torun across a family and you
(30:15):
find out they're also fromHouston.
There's an automatic feeling ofcloseness and relationship with
them, even though they'recomplete strangers.
But you have this one thingthat may or may not be
considered significant as theworld goes, but it doesn't
matter because you feel acloseness to them.
That's the national.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
That also goes, I think, the to the latin phrase
here is an interesting uhexplanation about the term in
the article.
The term nation designates acommunity based in a given
territory and distinguished fromother nations by its culture.
Catholic social teaching holdsthat the family and the nation
(30:59):
are both natural societies, notthe product of mere convention.
Speaker 5 (31:04):
Exactly, and you wouldn't feel that way, meeting
somebody in the middle ofnowhere from your hometown, if
that weren't true.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
That is correct, Rudy .
You want to jump in?
You know what?
Speaker 6 (31:15):
I'm thinking so it says natural right.
So this is something that isessentially ordered within us,
right?
So we're kind it sort ofGod-given right, and I think
(31:41):
it's important to realize thesethings that when we talk about
our nation, our culture, so muchis sort of trying to be, I
don't want to say erased, butsort of rewritten into the state
, right.
What's the state's culture, andwhat I mean by the state is
this sort of government entity,right?
Speaker 3 (32:02):
Yeah, because the state is very different from the
nation.
Speaker 5 (32:06):
Yeah, it took me a while to understand their
comment in that article, butthat's true.
Yeah, the state is not thenation.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
No, the nation.
How would you understand thedifference, Rudy, between the
state and the nation?
Speaker 6 (32:19):
Well, I think it has exactly to do with what you just
mentioned.
The culture, right, it's thelocal and domestic culture as
you go from the interior or fromthe sort of immediate proximity
of relationships, and then asyou extend it out, right, so I
would call it something likekind of the southern twang that
(32:42):
you can find in the southernstates, right, and this kind of
southern sort of southernhospitality that so many people
talk about.
There's something culturalabout being neighborly.
There's something culturalabout how you treat your
(33:04):
neighbor, the person in need,and it relates to how you treat
your immediate family and thenkind of expand that out.
So, when you push thatresponsibility, go ahead, dr
Fitch.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Oh, sorry, no, I'm just saying I didn't take away
that.
I would still think that's partof the nation, that these
cultural pieces are part of thenation, that the state actually
ends up becoming the kind ofofficial governmental structures
that we all agree on, rightlyor wrongly, and those are the
(33:43):
things that seek to provideorder, sometimes coercively in
some places and other times moreas a voluntary idea.
So the idea of nation I meanwould extend.
I mean when you, when you go toa certain place, let's say
another country, and you livethere for a long time, as soon
as you find somebody who speaksthe same language you do,
(34:05):
there's already an affinity aswell.
Going back to Stuart's example,we are a nation defined to some
degree by language and by thisculture.
Speaker 5 (34:19):
Culture, language and land.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
And land.
Yeah, those are really kind ofkey areas.
So I'm not really sure how,Rudy, you were talking about the
cultural piece, but I wouldstill think that's part of the
nation.
Speaker 6 (34:38):
But you know, I think that's what I was trying to say
is the nation itself is sort ofthe reflection of the culture,
if you will, and then the stateis the sort of the amalgamation
of these kind of cultural normsthat we've put together.
Speaker 5 (34:56):
So it's all okay.
See, Rudy, I would say thestate is the government and the
various governments that run thenation.
So the county, the city, thecounty, the state, you know, DC.
That to me, when I think of theword state, go ahead.
Speaker 6 (35:18):
Well, at the end, they reflect the values of the
culture?
Speaker 5 (35:21):
right, well, they're supposed to.
But, rudy, they're supposed toreflect the values, and you know
, the values of the people inthe nation.
But states don't always do that, dictatorships don't.
Okay, okay, right.
So to me the nation is thepeople, the land, the culture,
(35:50):
but the state is the government,and it may or may not have
anything whatsoever to do withthe nation.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
I find it.
Let me just make a side comment, Because I am Hispanic, I'm
Cuban and I grew up partly inCuba and partly here, and also
because, since I am fluent inSpanish and a lot of my ministry
most of my ministry these daysis done in Spanish, and I find
(36:22):
it interesting that when I likefor example today, I celebrated
Mass at 2 o'clock in theafternoon at San Rafael Catholic
Church St Raphael's CatholicChurch here in West Houston, at
two o'clock, and thecongregation was 100, is within
Spanish, but it was all 100%Hispanic and outside they were
(36:46):
selling Hispanic fruit andeverybody was talking Spanish.
And it was a really interestingexperience of feeling like I
was in another nation, eventhough I'm not, because it was
kind of like cultural groupsexisting within the same nation,
(37:07):
but having to respect eachother.
And I'm sure, for example, uh,that you would be able to speak
rab Rabbi about a Jewish sectionof a city.
Speaker 5 (37:20):
Absolutely.
You also have citywidecelebrations.
You have, don't you have, aGreek Greek festival Festival,
that's the word.
There's a Greek festival.
I think there's an Italianfestival, yeah, okay, but
they're all part of the nation.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Yes, but I think it's interesting here and this might
get us to a differentdiscussion here because I think
that is something that isspecific to the United States
Meaning.
Let me introduce it this way Ican move to Italy, but I will
(37:58):
never be Italian.
Speaker 5 (37:59):
Right.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
I can move to Spain, but I'll be never Spaniard.
I can move to Greece, but I'llnever be Greek.
But you can move to the UnitedStates.
Speaker 5 (38:10):
And become American, become a US citizen.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
And I think it's because that's what makes it
hard being a member of thisnation, because we are.
There are subcultures here thatare identities, almost
sub-nations, if we can call themthat, but we all are Americans,
because America is more of anidea, a sense of belonging to an
(38:39):
experiment.
Speaker 5 (38:41):
And you don't see that as basic elemental
Americanism?
Speaker 3 (38:45):
Yes, and melting pot, and from the many one, I'm
saying that belonging to anAmerica does not necessarily
mean being in Hispanic cultureor Cuban culture or Mexican
culture or Jewish culture.
I think, as long as we sharethe same commitment to the
(39:10):
ideals that binds us together,what binds us together?
Speaker 5 (39:15):
are ideals Right democracy.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
What's interesting is that it's not the land itself
that binds us together.
That's maybe part of it, butit's the ideals of who we are as
an identity.
So it's a supranationalidentity.
So, anyway, we'll come back.
I'd like to just talk aboutthat a little bit when we come
(39:38):
back, especially between Rudyand then, of course, david.
You and Stuart were born here,and so it's interesting to talk
about that.
Speaker 5 (39:48):
Yeah, mario you're a furriner.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
I'm a furriner, so this is 1070 KMTH.
I'm going to be right back.
Speaker 11 (39:55):
AM 1070, the answer.
We've just witnessed anhistoric election where over 75
million people mandated that theUnited States focus on the
economy.
More people than ever aremoving to Texas and we're
growing at a rapid pace.
With that growth comes moreopportunity than ever to reach
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So is your business positionedto boom in a better economy?
(40:16):
Can customers find you whenthey search online?
Do you show up properly inlocal search so that you're not
losing to your competitors?
Do you have a strong messageand strategy to help you win new
customers in 2025?
If not, it's not too late.
Contact Salem Surround and AM1070 the answer.
(40:37):
Today, by emailing us at infoat salem media, houstoncom,
we'll provide a free digitalaudit and a plan to help you win
in 2025.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
that's info at salem media, houstoncom salem, what
the job you do is great.
I'm telling you, salem hasreally done a fantastic job.
I just want to thank you.
You have courage.
You have really courage,because I know it's not easy.
Congratulations.
Speaker 4 (40:55):
Before when I get off work I would grab a couple of
drinks with my friends and theday I got my DWI I was driving
around from bar to bar.
I was going too fast and hit aU-Haul truck.
The DWI cost me around $12,000with lawyer and court costs.
I had a smart start device inmy vehicle.
I needed a blow into it everytime to start my car.
(41:16):
I was embarrassed so I wouldduck down or hide so no one
would see me.
Speaker 10 (41:20):
Drunk driving Isn't worth it.
Drive sober.
No regrets A message from techstock.
Speaker 11 (41:27):
The big 10 70 is everywhere.
Click listen live on am 10 70.
The answercom Go to the appstore and download the K&TH app
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The Answer you can even use theK&TH app to wake up to AM 1070
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Ask to play the Houston AnswerPlus.
You can hear us on tuneincomiHeartRadio and in Houston
(41:49):
You'll find us on AM 1070 and FM1033.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
The Answer here we come.
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Walking down the street All the monkeys.
Speaker 5 (42:01):
Get the funniest looks from everyone we meet.
Speaker 9 (42:07):
Hey, hey, hey, we're the monkeys.
Speaker 5 (42:09):
The keeps say we're monkeying around, but we're too
busy singing to put anybody down, you're where we want to go.
Welcome back to A Show of Faithon I'm 1070.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
This kind of music really dates us, doesn't it?
Speaker 5 (42:26):
Well, nobody else will date us.
Speaker 11 (42:28):
Oh, that was good, thank you.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
Rudy, what would you say?
And then I'd like to get Davidand Stuart in here.
What would you say in terms ofyour experience of belonging?
See, I feel very much anAmerican, but at the same time
there's part of me that is stillsomewhat Cuban.
(42:53):
Yeah, Go ahead.
What was your reflection?
Speaker 6 (42:56):
behind that.
You know, what's interesting isthat I was talking to my wife
and I said to her I miss Texas,I miss it, I miss.
And she's like okay, what doyou miss?
And I was like I mean it's hardto kind of Obviously my
family's there, what do you miss?
And I was like I mean it's hardto to kind of obviously my
family's there.
But you know, and I saidsomething cheeky, I said I
(43:18):
missed the highways and thebarbecue.
Speaker 5 (43:22):
You miss the highways , you're out of your mind.
Speaker 6 (43:24):
Trust me when you spend 45 minutes on traffic just
to go half a block because it'sso gridlocked here because of
terrible urbanization.
But anyways, my point is that Imiss it and of course part of
(43:46):
it is my mom's there, mybrother's there, my niece is
there, my sister is there, Ihave other family members there.
I mean I miss simple thingslike going to HEB Right, going
to the Lifetime Fitness, goingto Terry Hershey Polk.
I mean, when you start lookingat whether you I mean I would
(44:10):
call it the nation offers rightand organized by the state,
let's say right, because we havepublic parks, we have public
roadways, unless you're drivingdown the Beltway, then you're
going to pay probably like 15bucks to go down there, but
anyways it's, but everythingabout it that puts it together,
(44:32):
the people.
But do you feel American?
Speaker 3 (44:42):
See, I do.
I know that there is a little.
Every time the national anthemis played and I see the American
flag, and especially when I'vehad the opportunity to stand
with many hundreds of people andsing the national anthem, I
(45:03):
really get a rush, I cry, yeah,I do I do, I would say I feel
American because I believe inAmerica.
Speaker 6 (45:18):
Do you know what I?
Speaker 2 (45:19):
mean yes.
Speaker 6 (45:21):
I believe and I participate, I vote, I pay my
taxes, I have a home, and so Ifeel like I've participated in
this quote unquote Americandream.
Now I'm back in Guatemala, so II feel like I mean, this is my
home country too, right, but butheck, a lot of people don't
even think I'm from this countrywhen they look at me.
(45:43):
I don't even look a lot of mine, you know.
So they don't even.
So I really feel like in theUnited States, what you were
saying you could look likeanybody in anything and you
could be American.
Speaker 5 (45:53):
It doesn't matter Melting pot.
Speaker 3 (45:56):
But see, that's what I love.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
You're too tall to be Guatemalan, I'm sorry.
Speaker 5 (46:05):
Better nutrition.
Speaker 3 (46:06):
But it is that whole notion what that paragraph said.
Americans love America becauseit is their own and because it
is good.
Our ability to detach ourselvesfrom america and decry its
injustices only increases ourattachment to its continuing
project of justice for all andbecause we are able to do that
(46:29):
without fear of retribution bythe government supposedly david,
take off on this a little bitmore.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
Yeah, no, I appreciate it and I resonate
with a lot of things you'resaying.
I had to think about thatstatement a little bit that you
read earlier about whether it'sright for today, but I think it
is.
I think it's right for todaybecause we can be very proud of
our country For those of uswho've had the opportunity and
(46:57):
the benefits of traveling yourealize how wonderful this place
truly is.
It's not to say that therearen't other beautiful places in
the world.
There aren't other places wherethere's a good standard of
living, because there are placeswhere there's a good standard
of living because there are.
But there's just something veryunique about this project, this
(47:20):
idea of this American dream.
That is what's attracting somany millions of people to our
shores.
Speaker 3 (47:25):
Yeah, you don't see people clamoring to get into
Russia or to Nicaragua or Cuba.
Speaker 5 (47:31):
Or Myanmar, right?
What's his name?
The presidential candidate whowent there on his honeymoon to
Russia?
Speaker 3 (47:39):
Oh yeah, I can't think of his name, bernie.
Speaker 5 (47:40):
Sanders, Sanders, right, right, or what's her name
?
Who just left for you know,because Trump got elected, moved
out of the country.
I can't think of her name RosieO'Donnell.
Rosie Rosie O'Donnell.
Speaker 1 (47:53):
Yeah, went to Ireland yeah.
Speaker 5 (47:55):
Ireland, where it's yeah well.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
So I mean, you know, it's just an amazing country and
we can be proud and we canfight for justice.
We can speak out against thingsthat we think are unjust.
We can agree to disagree rightabout things, hopefully without
becoming too disagreeable.
Speaker 5 (48:18):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (48:20):
But that's what I.
Speaker 6 (48:21):
Can I add Sure, go ahead.
Can I add one more thing that Itruly miss to Nicaragua when I
travel around is that whensomething happens, an accident,
I get pulled over, maybe I get aspeeding ticket and, look, I've
(48:44):
been to certain places whereit's dangerous.
Okay, but truly in the UnitedStates I feel like the police
and the forces there are trulythere to kind of help the
citizens.
I'm not saying everybody'sperfect.
I'm not saying everybody is, butI don't feel like they're going
to try to extort me or try tokidnap me or try to do something
(49:08):
.
So it's just, it's things thatpeople don't understand.
Speaker 3 (49:13):
It really is, because let me tell you just a quick
story my mom, may she rest inpeace.
Speaker 5 (49:20):
I remember your mother.
Speaker 3 (49:21):
My mom when she came to the United States from Cuba,
because we came as exiles fromcommunism in 1960, exiles from
communism in 1960 and my mom,who was probably the most how
(49:41):
should I say scrupulous person,she just she didn't want to
commit any sin.
She just everything was thebest way she could do it.
And she said, mario, I have toconfess I did not know that
bribery was wrong.
Speaker 5 (49:55):
It was a way of life.
Speaker 3 (49:56):
Because it's interesting For my mom.
She said whenever you would getpulled over by a police officer
, it was kind of expected thatyou would give them a tip and
say thank you for letting meknow.
And in giving them a tip theywould let you go.
They wouldn't give them a tipand say thank you for letting me
know, and in giving them a tipthey would let you go.
They wouldn't give you a ticket.
(50:18):
And she said I was.
I grew up with that that thatwas normal.
You know I'm stopping you andgiving you this tip, but it's
actually and when you go to anygovernment office you give a tip
and you get faster service.
It's kind of like a tip, butgiven before the service.
Speaker 5 (50:38):
Right right.
Speaker 3 (50:39):
It's kind of like your server comes over to your
table and you give him a tip andyou say put me first.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
Right, yes, hand off to the maitre d' there's so much
corruption around the worldthat deals in things like that.
So many of the Africancountries, for example, we have
trouble giving.
You know we're trying to give acertain number of books to a
library there.
Let's say and you know thebooks will stay there in customs
until someone is bribed to getthose books on a truck.
(51:06):
You know, they know thatthey've come from America.
Speaker 5 (51:09):
Let's say they know they're going to a library,
Right and all Americans are rich.
Speaker 1 (51:14):
So All Americans in this library must be friends of
ours, but they must be rich too,though they're very poor.
But so much of the worldoperates that way, and Rudy's
right, I mean, it's not a safeplace to be pulled over by
policemen in a lot of countrieslike that.
Speaker 5 (51:33):
You know I've got to react, though, mario, to
something you asked, david and I, about feeling American because
we were born here.
Speaker 2 (51:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (51:42):
I kind of got to remind you that I'm a Jew and
going all the way back to Exodus, all the way back to the Bible,
where a new pharaoh rose overEgypt who did not know Joseph.
And what did he say to theEgyptians?
He said, basically, the Jews,they're not real Egyptians, we
(52:03):
can't trust them.
They'll join our enemies, andthat has been a recurring theme
among anti-Semites, jew haters,ever since.
And there have been things thathappened in my life growing up
in springfield, missouri, justthings that have happened.
But yes, I'm an american and Ican't imagine living anywhere
(52:24):
else.
I have no, I've lost mywanderlust.
I have no intention of leavingfor anything.
Okay, but yeah, there are timeswhere I have been made to feel
I'm not a real American.
I'm going to join our enemies.
Speaker 3 (52:39):
And it's the same thing.
I think if you were AfricanAmerican you would feel somewhat
like that.
Speaker 5 (52:44):
I'm sure Any minority in any ethnic group.
Speaker 3 (52:48):
Yeah, yeah, it feels somewhat like that, but at the
same time, that's what I loveabout it is that it's a country
that you have the opportunity tocontinue to fight for the
integration.
Speaker 5 (53:00):
And because there are laws that protect you, you can
appeal to the laws of the state.
That's correct.
Speaker 3 (53:06):
That's correct.
Yeah, any closing comments.
Gentlemen, david, any closingcomments?
Speaker 1 (53:12):
Yeah, I just think it's a great article because it
helped solidify some things forme about how and why Catholic
folk in particular are a bit,you know, on different sides of
the issue of immigration.
Speaker 3 (53:29):
Stuart.
Speaker 5 (53:32):
No, I basically just added my last two cents worth,
rudy.
Speaker 6 (53:38):
God bless America.
Speaker 5 (53:40):
About 30 seconds.
Speaker 6 (53:42):
Always, always.
Speaker 3 (53:43):
God bless America.
I love that song.
It's amazing to me.
Beautiful for spacious gate.
May God and crown our good.
Speaker 5 (53:55):
With brotherhood from sea to shining sea.
And if you want to know themost beautiful verse of the Star
Spangled Banner, it's thefourth one.
Read it.
Read the fourth verse.
Speaker 3 (54:05):
Read the fourth verse it's phenomenal.
Okay, who is show director nextweek?
Speaker 5 (54:12):
I think it's Rudy, but I'm not sure.
Speaker 3 (54:16):
Okay, whoever it is, we'll talk about it.
Speaker 6 (54:18):
I'm not sure I'll take it.
Speaker 3 (54:19):
Okay, rudy, rudy, rudy.
Speaker 1 (54:21):
I think it's you, you , you.
This is 1070 KMTH.
Speaker 3 (54:24):
You've been listening to a show of faith.
Keep us in your prayers becauseyou are going to be in ours.
Speaker 11 (54:28):
Find us at am1070theanswercom.
Download our apps.
Stream us 24-7.
Knth and K277DE-FM Houston.
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