May 13, 2025 • 54 mins
The surprise election of Pope Leo XIV has sent ripples through the Catholic world and beyond. Born Robert Prevost in Chicago's south side, he represents a historic first—an American Pope—defying longstanding assumptions that the universal church would never select a pontiff from the United States due to concerns about concentrating too much influence in one region.
What makes Pope Leo XIV particularly fascinating is his dual identity. While American-born and educated at Villanova University with a degree in mathematics, he spent over three decades serving as a missionary and bishop in Peru, eventually becoming a dual citizen. This unique background positions him as a bridge between North and South America, between wealth and poverty, between the developed and developing world. His multilingual abilities—speaking English, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, French, and reading Latin and German—further emphasize his global perspective.
As the first Augustinian Pope, he brings the spiritual traditions and values of his order: charity, unity, prayer, worship, and community living. The significance of his chosen papal name shouldn't be overlooked either. Pope Leo XIII guided the Church through the Industrial Revolution with influential teachings on social justice and economic systems. Similarly, Pope Leo XIV appears positioned to address our modern technological revolution—the challenges of artificial intelligence, digital interconnection, and rapid information exchange—with his background in mathematics potentially offering unique insights.
The discussions surrounding his election reveal fascinating theological differences between Catholic and Protestant understandings of the Church. From the Catholic perspective, there is fundamentally only one Church, with all validly baptized Christians being part of that single body, even if some "bones" are broken. This understanding means the Pope sees himself as having pastoral responsibility for all Christians, not just Catholics—a concept many Protestants would find surprising or even objectionable.
Whether you're Catholic, Protestant, or simply interested in how religious leadership shapes our world, Pope Leo XIV's unexpected emergence on the global stage represents a fascinating moment worth following. How will this American-Peruvian mathematician Pope guide the world's largest religious institution through the challenges of the 21st century? Subscribe to hear more analysis like this on religious developments shaping our world.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
There's something happening here, what it is ain't
exactly clear.
There's a man with a gun overthere Telling me I've got to
beware.
I think it's time we stop.
Children, what's that sound?
(00:28):
Everybody look what's goingdown.
The satellite's being drawn.
Nobody's right if everybody'swrong.
(00:48):
Young people speak in theirminds.
Are getting so much resistanceFrom behind every time we stop
hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look what's goingdown.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Rudy.
Nobody is picking up on Rudy.
Oh, hello, and welcome to theshow of faith here on KNTH 1070,
the Answer where professor,priest, millennial and rabbi
discuss theology and philosophyand anything else of interest in
religion.
If you have any response to ourtopics or comments regarding
(01:33):
what we say, we would love tohear from you.
Love, love, we really wouldn't.
You can hear our shows againand again by listening to pretty
much everywhere podcasts areheard.
Tonight with us is ProfessorDavid Capes, who is our Baptist
minister.
He is the director of academicprogramming for the Lanier
(01:57):
Theological Library.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
Good to see you, Fr.
Mario.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Our priest me.
I am Fr Mario.
I am retired pastor, seniorpastor of St Cyril of Alexandria
Catholic Church in the 10,000block of Westheimer.
Rudy is our millennial.
He is a systems engineer andhas a master's degree in
theology from the University ofSt Thomas.
(02:22):
And tonight he is on the airwith us, with his lovely wife
Natalia.
He is not yet on.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
He's not yet on.
Wait, we've got a thumbs down,so hopefully he will call in.
He says he's trying to call in,so hopefully he'll get through
here.
Okay, yep, and.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Stuart is not with us .
Speaker 4 (02:42):
Stuart is not Our friend Stuart Federo.
You know he's not reallydedicated to the show.
I know he is up.
He's up in Dallas spending timewith his daughter.
Can you imagine?
Geez, yeah, rather than me.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
If I had to choose my child or the show, you know
what I'd choose?
You would choose the show.
I would choose the show.
Of course, I have no children,so that makes it an easy choice.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
You have lots and lots of children.
All right, rudy is on.
We do have him on, we're onrudy rootster he's not on yeah,
oh, there he is, we hear him.
We hear him now.
Okay, hey, rudy is here and hehas.
I guess the thing that you needto know about rudy is that he
(03:32):
married way over his head wayout of my league way out of your
league.
Yeah, league, a league of herown, a league of her own.
So anyway, but he lives inguatemala and so we are missing
him up here in Houston.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
And, rudy, do you realize that I am sitting here
with David Capes, who has brightred shoes on Bright red?
You know why he has bright redshoes?
Speaker 3 (04:02):
I'm afraid to ask you to tell me.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Well, I yeah, because the Pope normally wore red
shoes, but now he's chosen notto, and so, in his honor, david
Capes has worn red shoes, redslippers yes, they're actually
tennis shoes red tennis shoesand they look like they're
pretty brand new under armor.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
Yeah, just went out and bought them this weekend
just in honor of Pope Francis.
Why did you choose red?
Oh, I just like the color.
I just like the color May.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
God forgive you.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
Yes, he will.
Hey, listen, we're going totalk about Pope, the new Pope.
Pope tonight, Pope Leo XIV, whois an American of all things.
Who is an American of allthings.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Let me tell you, nobody, nobody expected an
American, because the commonwisdom has been that the
universal church would prefernot to have.
See, this is kind of like theway that, shall we say, the
(05:08):
common rumor, the common, notwisdom, but the common story
goes, and that is that theAmerican church is considered a
fairly wealthy church andcontributes quite a bit to the
Vatican and the rest of theworld.
And so since we are an outsizedblock, shall we say that the
(05:37):
normal accepted, the acceptedstory was that the cardinals of
the church of the world wouldnot want to couple that with an
american as pope because itwould give too much weight, too
much power too much power to theunited states.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
You know trump is the one to pull that in.
You know he made a deal withconclave.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, I know, ofcourse, uh, but you know it is
unusual and I I don't think Ihad heard anything quite like
this before uh happening.
Now we did have an america, Imean in terms from this
(06:28):
hemisphere, that's true, that isthe Western Hemisphere.
First time that that hadhappened, yes, right, and so now
we've had the second one fromthis hemisphere, that's right.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
So when everybody, when they said Robert Pavon,
what was it?
Prevost, prevost, and he is.
Everybody knew he's an American, I think half the world fainted
.
Half the world fainted.
(07:00):
But here's the interesting part, that is the Catholic world.
Yes, okay, but here's theinteresting part, that is the
Catholic world.
Yes, but here's the interestingpart.
When I've heard the cardinalsspeak, the cardinals that were
on the conclave, they said thathis Americanness was hardly ever
even a factor.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Is that because he was also a citizen of Peru?
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yes, I think it's because he has spent a large
amount of his time as amissionary in Peru.
He was a bishop in the diocesein Peru and he has been working
in the Vatican and he is largelyunknown in the United States.
Okay, and he is largely unknownin the United States, okay, so
(07:46):
he was never considered when wetalked about the American
cardinals.
He was never mentioned Amongthe cardinals, because he's a
cardinal, technically born inthe United States, but he's not.
He wasn't a cardinal in theUnited States, okay, yeah, and
so Was he ever a bishop in theUnited States?
But he's not.
He wasn't a cardinal in theunited states?
Speaker 4 (08:06):
okay, yeah, and so was he ever a bishop in?
The united states no, okay, sohe's never a bishop or a
cardinal in the united states,so his leadership took place
primarily in peru, south america, yep, majority world country,
and then also in the vaticancells, okay what you got
anything else to add to that.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
No, I think it's frankly.
I think he's a great bridge, ifyou will, between the Americas,
because he is American.
He is Chicago, south Chicago,born and lived there for a bit
and lived there for a bit, but alot of his ministry and
(08:49):
missionary work has been in very, very poor areas, if you will.
So he has family in the UnitedStates.
He has that perspective ofAmerica, if you will, but he's
also lived, touched, breathed inreally remote and poor
communities, if you will.
So I think it's going to be.
(09:10):
You know he's already gottensome heat out of some tweets.
I don't know if you guys sawthat already, but we can get
into that later A little bit.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
Yeah, I'm curious what are people in Guatemala I
mean, guatemala is mainly aCatholic country, right?
I mean in terms of religious,what are they?
Speaker 3 (09:27):
saying down there, there's a lot of evangelical
churches here.
I don't know what we would callit Father Mario, there's a word
but it's where they mix sort oflike indigenous culture with
Catholic teaching, if you willsyncretism yeah, syncretism yeah
(09:52):
syncretism.
so there's, there's, there's abit of that too, um, but for the
most part I think I thinkpeople have this kind of
optimism about his perspectiveand his work.
Really, for the most part, Ihaven't really heard too much.
I mean, as Catholics, we'reglad that the seat is no longer
(10:16):
empty, right, and we trust inthe Holy Spirit that's guiding
the Church.
So to some large degree youknow, regardless, if we would
have been Italian, american,chinese, like African, it
doesn't matter, it doesn'tmatter.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
That's the man who needed to be in that chair right
now.
I heard that in the conclavethere was really hardly any sort
of weight given to where aperson's from.
It's more of what does he bringto the direction of the church,
and I think that when they sawhim, he's well known among the
(11:05):
cardinals.
And the reason he's well knownis because for the last year and
a half to two years, he hasbeen in charge of recommending
to the bishops who should bepicked as bishop.
Yeah, yeah, who should bepicked as bishop.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
Yeah, yeah, so he's involved in a very significant
place, influential place withinthe Vatican, right?
Yeah, rudy, you said that hewas originally from Chicago,
south side of Chicago.
I'm wondering well, I'm notgoing to wonder about that, I
was going to say somethingrather silly, you know, but I'm
(11:47):
not going to say it.
Does he like the deep dish?
Well, no, I thought maybe he.
You know, in his former life hemight have been known as Bad,
bad Leroy Brown, but I don'tknow about that.
But then Jesus did a big workin his life and he's now a
cardinal.
But no, I mean, that is a roughpart of the city.
I've lived up there.
I know it's a rough part of thecity and a lot of crime takes
(12:12):
place up there and it's a verydifficult time.
But he is a Chicago White Soxfan, I found out.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
That's what I have I heard?
Speaker 4 (12:17):
You heard about that.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
That is a basketball team.
No, that's baseball actually.
Oh Base.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
That is a basketball team.
No, that's baseball actually.
Oh, baseball.
They have two baseball teamsChicago Cubs and Chicago White.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Sox, okay, okay.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
The White Sox beat the Astros a few years back in
the World Series.
Oh, they did, yeah, they didfour games straight.
It was very tough, was it fivegames?
Speaker 3 (12:41):
I think it's 05.
Was that 2005?
Speaker 4 (12:43):
It might have been.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Yeah, it was back in that era, yeah, I think there's
a video of now Pope Leo XIVattending the game Of that game
really.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
Yeah, Whoa, whoa.
Did he dance?
Did he get up and do a holydance when they won the Astros?
Speaker 3 (13:03):
That's probably why they won to be honest.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Okay, all right, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
You have to.
I mean, you know some people.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
I know it doesn't fit your profile exactly, but some
people enjoy sports you know,yeah, Some people do Especially
well the World Series, that'sgolf, right.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
No, no, that's also baseball.
World series, that's golf,right?
No, no, that's, that's alsobaseball.
Well, that's baseball, baseball.
Yeah, the rider cup, now,that's, that's that's I thought
the rider cup was horse racing.
No, it's actually not.
No, it's called the kentuckyderby oh, oh gosh I thought that
was football the derby no,that's darby derby, derby, derby
(13:43):
.
Yeah, they play football, butfootball is really soccer over
there.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Anyway, I'm really not that dumb people, I just
have a reputation.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
You have a reputation to live up to.
Hey, listen before we go tobreak.
One of the things that I did inpreparation for the show is I
was curious to what Pope Leo hasbeen saying about Protestants
all this time.
Interesting, yeah, and he madea statement a few years back, if
you help me explain it to us,that he thought that Protestants
(14:17):
were barnacles on the bark ofPeter.
I don't think he said that.
You don't think he said that.
I said that.
You said that.
You don't think he said that.
I said that, you said that.
Well, I think he's quoting you,but I don't speak Latin, so
what does that mean exactly?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
A barnacle on the bark of Peter.
Yes, Barnacle.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
Aren't barnacles sort of low?
Speaker 2 (14:35):
in life forms.
No, no, barnacle.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
That does sound like something Mario would say to the
audience.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
It was, yeah, was.
You guys know what a barnacleis?
Yeah, I know what a barnacle.
For those of you who don't know, they are crustaceans, I think,
or are they that attach to thehull of a boat, and uh, they're
mollusks or something, yes, so,and they attach themselves that
way.
And the bark of peter'sconsidered the uh and they
attach themselves that way andthe bark of Peter is considered
the ship of Peter heading.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
So bark is the word meaning ship, ship, yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Okay, barnacles, on the bark of Peter you attach.
Yeah, we have to go to break,but the barnacle attaches itself
to the hall of Peter, so youall are in for the ride.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
We're in for the ride , but we're lower life I will
explain that when we come back.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
This is KMTH 1070, and we'll be right back.
Speaker 9 (15:30):
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The Answer Okay, well , welcome back here to the show
(17:54):
of faith.
I know not everybody has got abody like you, because you know
we're talking about the Popetonight and when you get into
serious theology, especiallyserious theology from the
perspective of the Catholictheology.
I don't know if many of ourlisteners know this, but let me
(18:17):
give you an example.
Several years ago there was agentleman here who was a pastor
of a protestant church, and I'llnever forget it because as we
were walking out the building heasked I don't remember the
(18:40):
gentleman's name he said father,what is the process that a
person would have to would gothrough to leave the Catholic
Church and become a member ofanother church?
And because I have several menI mean several people in my
congregation that would like toformally leave the Catholic
(19:01):
Church and become members of mychurch, and he asked me that
question Is there a procedurethat you go through?
And so I looked at him and Isaid do you have any children?
And he says yeah, I have twochildren.
I said what's the procedure forthem to unchild themselves from
(19:22):
you, to unchild themselves fromyou?
Is there any way for them tostop being your children and
stop being related to you?
And he goes uh, no.
And I said there's no way thatyou can unpart yourself from
(19:43):
being part of the church.
Once you're baptized, you arepart of the one church.
I was just telling David thatmy best image of the brokenness
of the church right now betweenProtestants, catholics and
different parts of the body ofChrist is the image of a body,
(20:06):
but imagine a human body thathas a broken bone.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
Or two.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Or two.
Okay, you still are one body.
The union of the body is notperfect because it has some
broken bones, but it is stillone body.
You would never say that thearm say the arm that is broken
is no longer part of the body soby by joining another church or
(20:35):
protestant church, you're stillpart you're still part of the
catholic church still part ofthe catholic church.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
But you, you're a.
Is that a point?
Speaker 2 (20:43):
a broken arm at that point yeah, but like, for
example, you still you're aBaptist, but you are still, in
one real sense, part of theCatholic Church.
We may be, you know, have abroken tradition, but you're
still part of the one body ofthe Church.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
Well, every week in a lot of churches around the city
and the world, there's a thingcalled the Nicene Creed.
That's correct, and afterscripture is read and after the
sermon, and such people willstand up and they will recite
the Nicene Creed.
Part of that recital is webelieve in one holy Catholic and
(21:23):
and apostolic church.
Now, the word catholic theremeans what I mean in.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
In that sense I know the word catholic there means
remember where the word comesfrom.
It means catholic meaning inrelationship to the whole.
Christ came to establish onechurch, okay not 33 not 33 000
(21:49):
or you know.
So when we use the wordcatholic referring to a
denomination, that's really afull sense of the.
Catholica is the one body ofChrist.
You can't be a denomination andbe Catholic, because it's not a
(22:13):
denomination, it is the onechurch, and we recognize
protesters as part of the church.
Now we were saying I was justtelling David that when a
Protestant wants to becomeCatholic in the Catholic Church,
we cannot re-baptize, becauseyou are already baptized.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
So if you're baptized in the Baptist Church or
Lutheran or whatever.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
That's if they use the same Trinitarian.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Well, no because yes and no Because, Rudy.
The problem is this.
The problem that is, if youdon't baptize in the Trinitarian
formula, you're not Christian,You're not part of the body.
Just start.
For example, Mormons are notChristians, they're not
Christian, You're not part ofthe body.
Just start.
For example, Mormons are notChristians.
They're great people, wonderfulpeople.
(23:09):
Jehovah Witnesses are wonderfulpeople, but they're not
Christians.
Speaker 4 (23:15):
Because their baptism they don't confess the Nicene
Creed.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
The Creed and the Trinity and the Incarnation.
So from that perspective, uh,you can't even consider yourself
a christian unless you arebaptizing in the name of the
trinity and in the incarnationand belief, believing in the
trend that's right so at thatpoint, but that's why the pope
(23:40):
is.
It's really interesting becausein one level he is still part,
even though maybe not recognizedin different understandings
from our understanding.
He is the vicar of Christ forthe whole body of Christ.
So he would consider himselfstill, pastorally, your pastor
(24:04):
as a Protestant.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
That's interesting.
Yeah, because a lot ofProtestants wouldn't recognize
that.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
No, they would not.
But from our perspective,meaning the Catholic perspective
, we, at the deepest level,understand that there is one
church, and because I mean thinkabout it that's what Nicaea
said.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
We believe that we're one.
And that's what Jesus said inJohn's Gospel.
That's right.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
And so, at the deepest theological level, we
can't say that there's more thanone church because there's one
body of Christ.
You can't do it.
We may be broken, we may havehad problems in history.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
But so is every family so is every family yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
This is why David bought those red shoes to be
part of the one Catholic family.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
There you go.
That's why I'm wearing redshoes.
There you go.
We'll continue talking'mwearing red shoes.
There you go.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
We'll continue talking about this because this
is an interesting point ofwhat's called in theology.
This is the area calledecclesiology.
Ecclesiology is the study ofthe theology of the church and
it's an interesting changebetween David, who is a member
of the Baptist tradition, and me, of the Catholic tradition,
(25:25):
known from perspective of adenomination, but at the deepest
level those are actuallymisnomers, but we'll get into
that when we come back.
This is KMTH 1070, and we'll beright back.
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(28:25):
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Welcome back to the show of faith.
Speaker 4 (28:31):
Yeah, you forgot where you were for a minute.
I did that's because you'vedone four masses today, yeah,
and you're tired, I can tell.
I can see it on your face, rudy.
What is it?
Is there any particular draw toPope Leo XIV?
(28:54):
Because he is Spanish-speakingand because he is also a
Peruvian citizen.
He's an American citizen, buthe's also a Peruvian citizen.
He's an American citizen, buthe's also a Peruvian citizen.
Is he deemed from that part ofthe world?
I mean, how do people look athim from that part of the world?
Speaker 3 (29:18):
I think people really see him as American.
But the fact that he spent what?
Over 30 years, I think right,father Mario outside the US and
I think they're very comfortablein, he has a dual citizenship
but I mean I see him as American, you know, and he may not feel
(29:42):
too American, I'm not too sure,but I think he's in America.
I mean people see him asAmerican.
Everywhere you go everybodysays oh, the American pope,
everybody was elected asAmerican pope, great.
They don't say oh he's, butthey also say, but he spent a
lot of time outside the US, inPeru, so people are recognizing
(30:05):
that, but he's very muchAmerican.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
He went to school in Villanova.
That's where he went to college.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
I have a joke about that, about Villanova.
No, no about, because he got a.
It's a math joke, though, so Idon't know.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
Oh, it's a degree.
He got a degree in mathematics,didn't he?
Speaker 3 (30:29):
He has.
He does have a degree inmathematics.
Speaker 4 (30:33):
Well, Father Mario won't be able to appreciate this
, but I will Go ahead with yourjoke.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
He, because of his degree in mathematics, he
definitely understands.
He not only understands sin,but he also understands cos Cos,
cosine, cos and sine Cos oh.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
Got it.
Got it Sin.
Yes, what is sin?
Sine and cosine.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Sine and cosine Sine and cosine.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Yes, what is sin?
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Sine and cosine, sine and cosine, sine and cosine yes
, Okay, that just went over like98, 99% of our audiences.
Now what the heck are theytalking?
Speaker 3 (31:13):
about.
I think our audience is verysmart.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
They are smart, but I bet 98% doesn't know what sin
and cosin.
Whatever that is Sine andcosine.
We've got to go back to ourmath training for that 98%
doesn't know what sin and cosin.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
Whatever that is Sin and cosin, we've got to go back
to our math training for that.
A math major.
But Villanova Now that leads meto ask the question about he is
the first Augustinian pope,right, I mean?
Speaker 2 (31:43):
You have to remember that in the Catholic tradition,
the development of smallcommunities or communities of
men or women that came togetheras followers of a particular
saint and, for example, popeFrancis was a Jesuit, okay, but
(32:13):
he took the name Francis Francis.
The order that came togetheraround St Francis was called the
Franciscans, and theFranciscans came together around
saint francis was called thefranciscans, and the franciscans
came together as a group ofpeople, men and and women, some
(32:34):
franciscans well, franciscansare men that presented
themselves to the pope and saidwe would like to practice our
faith in service constantly tothe poor, and so they started
what was called the franciscanorder, and so that is a group of
people that follow, that aredisciples of christ and they're
(32:59):
in the catholic church, but theyfollow the franciscan way of
life.
okay, and the Pope is a memberof a group that follows St
Augustine, and they're calledAugustinians.
Speaker 4 (33:16):
St Augustine's earlier.
That's right, yeah, yeah.
So what would be thecharacteristics?
What would be unique about them, Augustinians compared to the
Franciscans?
Speaker 2 (33:30):
let's say Rudy, do you have anything in there?
Speaker 3 (33:35):
So the Augustinians tend to be.
Look, there's a lot of nuancesbetween them.
They're similar If you'relooking at them from kind of
overhead.
They do a lot of pastoral work.
Augustinians are a little bitmore known for do a lot of
pastoral work.
Augustinians are a little bitmore known for doing a lot of
contemplative prayer.
(33:55):
So they're known for a lot ofwhat we would call community
life.
So they live in thesecommunities and they share most
of their possessions, if not all.
They live together.
They're known a lot formissionary and pastoral work in
(34:19):
a lot of remote areas, which youwould find also in Franciscans
and man.
There's just a lot of differentorders and man, there's just a
lot of different orders.
So a lot of it kind of boilsdown to really the amount, for
example, of service work thatthey do or the amount of
contemplative work.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Yeah, for example, that's what's called the charism
, the charism of an order.
Say, for example, theFranciscans would constantly
have a charism, meaning a giftto serve, especially the poor.
Augustinians would have thattoo, but in a different
(35:01):
spirituality.
They have a different kind ofspirituality.
The Jesuits, for example.
The Jesuits would be likeFrancis Pope Francis was a
Jesuit.
They would be like Francis PopeFrancis was a Jesuit.
They would be very academic,they would be focused on the
academic fields, and so you havethat's their charism.
(35:23):
They are teachers.
Speaker 4 (35:24):
And education.
Education.
That's right, because I meansome of the greatest schools in
the country and around the worldhave been Jesuit schools.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
And so you have the Pope being Augustinian and we
could do a little more researchon the charism or the taste
Shall we say the flavor of theAugustinians.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
I pulled up some of the values here.
It's essentially charity andunity, prayer and worship,
moderation and self-denial, carefor the sick, obedience and
governance.
So those are essentially thevalues that they kind of fall
(36:07):
under these Augustinian ruleswhich were written by Augustine
in the year around 400.
Written by Augustine in theyear around 400.
Now the order itself wasn'tformally established until 1250s
, I think 1244.
So it came out a time later,but it wasn't necessarily.
But that doesn't mean thatthere weren't people living
(36:29):
according to those charisms orthose values for hundreds of
years before that.
That's when it was sort ofrecognized officially by the
Pope.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
I find it, though I was listening to him, to the new
Pope, and when he celebratedMass with the Cardinals and he
began by speaking English, andboy, you could tell it's an
American English.
It is.
Well, yeah, yes, yeah and boyyou could tell it's an american
english.
Yeah, it is well.
Yeah, it's like, for example,if I started speaking to you in
(36:56):
spanish, okay, I wouldimmediately know how to speak
spanish with a cuban accent,because I was born in cuba.
Now, even worse, because I wasborn in Cuba, but I came to the
United States when I was 10years old.
Now the Pope got his entireeducation here in the United
(37:19):
States.
Speaker 4 (37:22):
And it was later in life when he went to Peru.
That's correct, yeah, and so helearned it.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
So he's.
I think Rudy is very correct inthis.
He's got a strong American coreto him.
Speaker 4 (37:37):
But you know, he speaks Italian, he speaks
Portuguese, he speaks French, hespeaks Spanish, he reads Latin,
he reads German, he reads.
I mean, you know otherlanguages as well.
I mean, here's a guy that he'shad to, maybe, but he's needed
(37:59):
to study these languages, sohe's not very American when it
comes to that, because Americansusually know one language and
we don't know it that well.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
I think that this is a guy who's American but he's
exposed to himself to atremendous amount of
international culture.
I have high hopes for him.
Speaker 4 (38:19):
I know we've got to go to break here in just a
minute, but what I foundinteresting is, as I was reading
about him, almost all sort ofthe news reports initially were
what does he think about Trump'simmigration policy?
What does he think about theLGBTQ questions?
What does he think aboutdiversity and such?
(38:40):
What does he think aboutclimate change?
I mean, it's as if these arethe sort of the litmus test.
You've got to ask thesequestions because these are the
things that are on the mind ofthe reporter, let's say Of
American reporters, Of Americanreporters.
But you go around the world andI would think that some of
those things might be the same,but but the majority are not.
(39:01):
A lot of them are verydifferent.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Yeah, I mean, when you're talking about LGBTQ stuff
and DEI and stuff like that,that's not a world priority.
Speaker 4 (39:09):
That's pretty, yeah.
Well, climate change is Climatechange.
Climate change is a littledifferent, because a lot of
people around the world areconcerned and they feel that the
poor of a country are those whoare going to be paying the
highest price for whateverhappens.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Rich people can take care of whatever, but people who
are poor are going to be theones left holding the stick on
that We'll have to see, becausebetween India and China they
have a lot of poor people andthey're not very concerned about
climate change.
Well, that's true.
This is KNTH 1070, and we'll beright back.
Speaker 9 (39:54):
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Speaker 9 (41:29):
You aren't the only one who enjoys listening to
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Group Everybody at Salem Media Group you've been
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Speaker 9 (41:54):
Payout 1070 and FM 1033.
Speaker 8 (41:57):
The answer You're an angel to me.
Speaker 4 (42:10):
This is Pope Leo's favorite song, oh yeah.
Speaker 8 (42:19):
Every time he says hello, how I love him, how I
tingle when he passes by.
Every time he says hello, myheart begins to fly.
Johnny Angel, he's gotsomething that I can't resist,
but he doesn't even know that Iexist.
(42:43):
I'm in heaven.
I get carried away.
I dream of him and me and howit's gonna be.
All the fellas call me up for adate, but I just sit and wait.
I'd rather concentrate onJohnny Angel, cause I love him,
(43:09):
and together we will see howlovely heaven will be.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
And together we will see how lovely heaven will be
and welcome back to the show offaith, david.
Let me ask you now, mm-hmm,from the perspective of you, of
course, have to represent allProtestants, all the way from
the clean and dead.
(43:44):
How do you think the overallChristian Protestant world is
seeing?
Because the moment you see allthis hubbub going in the Vatican
, all the pageantry and the Popecoming out and the election,
how's that going over in most ofthe time?
Speaker 4 (44:05):
Yeah, I mean that's a great question and it is a huge
, huge expanse of differentresponses.
Part of it is there are peoplethat don't get it.
They don't understand it, theydon't understand that world,
they don't understand thesignificance.
They feel like too much isbeing put upon a man like that.
(44:28):
So, and they, they look atChrist as being the head of the
church and not somebody else,and they don't understand this
language of the vicar of christ,for example.
So you have you have a wholesection of, I think, protestants
and I don't know if thismajority or not but who don't
really understand thesignificance and and would
(44:50):
themselves look a littlesuspiciously at it as if it's
it's wrong-headed right, atheological aberration, if you
will.
Okay, yeah, and then you have alot of Protestants, I mean, who
are maybe Lutherans or Anglicansand others who understand the
(45:10):
significance of the Pope as thehead of the Catholic Church.
The Pope as the head of theCatholic Church, which is the
largest Christian groupdenomination body, go back to
our metaphor body and the world,and they recognize the gravity
of that to some degree.
So I think you have all sortsof different variations of
(45:36):
themes, I mean, because I knowProtestants that think Catholics
are heretics.
You know every Catholic is aheretic and they're not really
Christians and those kind ofthings.
And then I know those who aresort of almost on the verge of
converting to Catholicism aswell.
So you've got a really wideexpanse of that.
(46:00):
So I mean, a part of what we dohere is, I think, we try to
explain the worlds a little bitto give each other a better
understanding, and we do that ina kidding way a lot of times,
but it's a very, very seriousmatter.
Very, very serious issues and,yeah, very serious issues.
And yeah, I'm excited for thechurch to have a new pope, a new
(46:25):
St Francis.
Sorry, pope Francis had beenill for a while and I was
concerned that he would not beable to make it very long or in
a robust way, and I think one ofthe things for sure is that the
pope must be a robustindividual.
(46:45):
Yes, I mean he's 69, right, sohe could have a 10, 15 year
papacy or longer.
Yeah, it's always possible.
Speaker 2 (46:54):
Yeah and really you said that in Latin America,
around the Catholics that you'rearound in Latin America, is
there any sense of excitement?
You said that mostly it's theAmerican Pope.
Speaker 3 (47:10):
Yeah, I mean that's really how they see him.
I mean, he was born there, hisformation is there, he went to
school there, he went to collegethere.
I mean he's American.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
The fact that he's also a Peruvian citizen make any
difference.
Speaker 3 (47:29):
I mean, I think, I think it has, like I said, I
think it's maybe like a, like aplus, if you will, father, but
really he really is, if youthink about it, the amount of
people with immigrants andimmigration being a global let's
(47:55):
call it point of concern orsort of focus.
I think they picked somebody, Ithink, that really sort of
understands the nuances of thisbecause he's seen it.
He's been growing up in Americafor a long time but he's also
spent outside growing up inAmerica for a long time but he's
(48:19):
also spent outside.
Now, of course, his missionarywork has been in a lot of kind
of remote areas, but he isexposed to a lot of people that
are moving frontiers, that havebeen sort of displaced and
forgotten about.
And I think there's a lot ofoptimism about the Pope and I
know if he's kind of been and.
David, you were alluding to thisearlier.
(48:39):
He's kind of been put throughthe litmus test right as to what
he says about immigration andthen LGBTQ and gay marriage and
this and that.
And look, if you just do alittle bit of research, what he
says parodies exactly Churchteaching and doctrine.
(49:01):
So he hasn't come out and saidanything different that Pope
Francis, that Benedict, that JPII would have said in their time
.
So I actually find it quiteinteresting that he picked I
don't know if you guys know toomuch about the history of Pope
Leo's, but there have been fouror five Leo's in the past that
(49:22):
have really led the Church intokind of new age, especially Pope
Leo XIII.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
Yeah, because Leo XIII was really into.
It's interesting because LeoXIII brought the church into
having a tremendous amount tosay during the latter part of
the Industrial Revolution oh,that's right, the 1800s.
(49:50):
That's right because I thinkthat Leo XIV sees himself as
saying a lot about the AIrevolution, the information
revolution, the Internet,because we are going through,
you know, we went through anindustrial revolution, but now
(50:11):
we're going through another kindof revolution, which is in
terms of information andinterconnectedness and the whole
issue of electronics.
Speaker 4 (50:21):
Now, earlier you said AI, is that Anthony Ingersoll?
Yes, it's Anthony Ingersoll.
Speaker 2 (50:27):
Okay, I was just wondering, because he's a friend
of mine too.
He's also artificialintelligence.
Oh is it?
Speaker 4 (50:32):
But Anthony Ingersoll is very good, okay, he's a good
Swedish friend of mine.
He loves those meatballs overat IKEA.
Love those things.
Yeah, yeah, no, hey, did youknow that that that pope leo the
14th, now known as robertprevost, uh watched the movie
conclave before his own conclave?
(50:54):
I heard that he had watched it.
I mean, it was almost, you know, just a few days before.
Speaker 2 (51:02):
Yeah, I heard that he had watched it.
Speaker 4 (51:05):
I thought you were warning us off of that.
Speaker 2 (51:07):
I did and I still would.
I still think it's a disgustingmovie.
Okay, but I think that theissue is that it's been praised
for the acting and for the kindof giving you a little bit of
the procedure, but at the sametime it's really when you really
talk to the cardinals that wereparticipating in conclaves, the
(51:31):
temperament is not as political.
Conclave was a very politicalkind of intrigue as who's going
to get it, who's going to get it.
That's not the way that it isin the real conclave.
Speaker 4 (51:43):
Yeah, yeah it is secretive, as people have said,
but sometimes you need to besecluded and not prone to the
internet and prone to phoneinternet and prone to phone
calls and prone to emails andthose kind of things.
Speaker 2 (52:01):
It's not a political process at all.
Every cardinal that I haveheard has said that the one
thing that people make a mistakeon is thinking that the
conclave is kind of like who'srunning for pope.
That's not the way it is.
There's a saying that says, ifyou enter the conclave, a pope
you will come.
(52:21):
You will come out a cardinal,meaning whoever the favorites
are and listen, look at it.
Speaker 4 (52:27):
Nobody saw this guy in terms of the favorites he was
a, as they to use a racinganalogy horse racing the, the
dark horse.
If at all Use a horse, thatwould not be.
Speaker 2 (52:39):
But even the people who were handicapping, who it
could be what is called thepapabiles, the guys who can be
Pope he wasn't even counted.
Speaker 4 (52:51):
So Came out of the back of the pack.
They went in.
Hey, did you know?
One of his favorite games isWordle.
No, did you know that?
No, I wonder what languages heplays.
What languages?
Speaker 2 (53:05):
I have no idea what Wordle is.
Speaker 4 (53:06):
Wordle.
It's a word game that a lot ofpeople like I think it started
in New York Times.
Okay, I like it.
Speaker 3 (53:13):
Do you like.
Speaker 4 (53:14):
Wordle it's a good game.
I like it.
Do you like the wordle it's agood game?
What is it, tell me, for?
Speaker 3 (53:18):
those who don't know real quick 20 seconds.
It's a good game that you getto play.
You have to guess the word thatit's trying to based on.
Just play it.
It's kind of a weird game, butit's a game of sort of guessing
the word by them giving youdifferent letters, certain clues
(53:39):
or something.
Speaker 4 (53:40):
Okay, all right.
So I bet he would be tough toplay Scrabble with a guy that
knows that many languages.
Yeah, wouldn't he be tough, Imean, if you say, okay, any
language that I know, okay, itcould be a name language.
Speaker 2 (53:53):
Well, I would make up my own language.
Speaker 4 (53:57):
Well, okay, folks, pope, leo bless him.
Speaker 2 (54:00):
God bless him.
We have a new pope and it'sgoing to be an interesting thing
for every part of the worldbecause he'll start making the
church and applying the church,teaching to all kinds of
different things and coming outwith encyclicals and stuff like
that.
So it will be interesting, Okay.
(54:21):
Well, thank you very much forhaving been here at St Cyril At
KNTH 1070, we are here everySunday night and we'll be here
again next Sunday night.
Thank you, Rudy, Thank you,David, Thank you, Thank you and
hello to all.
David, Thank you, Thank you andhello to all the mothers of
Mother's Day KMTH.
(54:41):
God bless you.
Speaker 9 (54:43):
Have a nice night.
There's something happening here, what it is ain't
exactly clear.
There's a man with a gun overthere Telling me I've got to
beware.
I think it's time we stop.
Children, what's that sound?
(00:28):
Everybody look what's goingdown.
The satellite's being drawn.
Nobody's right if everybody'swrong.
(00:48):
Young people speak in theirminds.
Are getting so much resistanceFrom behind every time we stop
hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look what's goingdown.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Rudy.
Nobody is picking up on Rudy.
Oh, hello, and welcome to theshow of faith here on KNTH 1070,
the Answer where professor,priest, millennial and rabbi
discuss theology and philosophyand anything else of interest in
religion.
If you have any response to ourtopics or comments regarding
(01:33):
what we say, we would love tohear from you.
Love, love, we really wouldn't.
You can hear our shows againand again by listening to pretty
much everywhere podcasts areheard.
Tonight with us is ProfessorDavid Capes, who is our Baptist
minister.
He is the director of academicprogramming for the Lanier
(01:57):
Theological Library.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
Good to see you, Fr.
Mario.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Our priest me.
I am Fr Mario.
I am retired pastor, seniorpastor of St Cyril of Alexandria
Catholic Church in the 10,000block of Westheimer.
Rudy is our millennial.
He is a systems engineer andhas a master's degree in
theology from the University ofSt Thomas.
(02:22):
And tonight he is on the airwith us, with his lovely wife
Natalia.
He is not yet on.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
He's not yet on.
Wait, we've got a thumbs down,so hopefully he will call in.
He says he's trying to call in,so hopefully he'll get through
here.
Okay, yep, and.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Stuart is not with us .
Speaker 4 (02:42):
Stuart is not Our friend Stuart Federo.
You know he's not reallydedicated to the show.
I know he is up.
He's up in Dallas spending timewith his daughter.
Can you imagine?
Geez, yeah, rather than me.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
If I had to choose my child or the show, you know
what I'd choose?
You would choose the show.
I would choose the show.
Of course, I have no children,so that makes it an easy choice.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
You have lots and lots of children.
All right, rudy is on.
We do have him on, we're onrudy rootster he's not on yeah,
oh, there he is, we hear him.
We hear him now.
Okay, hey, rudy is here and hehas.
I guess the thing that you needto know about rudy is that he
(03:32):
married way over his head wayout of my league way out of your
league.
Yeah, league, a league of herown, a league of her own.
So anyway, but he lives inguatemala and so we are missing
him up here in Houston.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
And, rudy, do you realize that I am sitting here
with David Capes, who has brightred shoes on Bright red?
You know why he has bright redshoes?
Speaker 3 (04:02):
I'm afraid to ask you to tell me.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Well, I yeah, because the Pope normally wore red
shoes, but now he's chosen notto, and so, in his honor, david
Capes has worn red shoes, redslippers yes, they're actually
tennis shoes red tennis shoesand they look like they're
pretty brand new under armor.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
Yeah, just went out and bought them this weekend
just in honor of Pope Francis.
Why did you choose red?
Oh, I just like the color.
I just like the color May.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
God forgive you.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
Yes, he will.
Hey, listen, we're going totalk about Pope, the new Pope.
Pope tonight, Pope Leo XIV, whois an American of all things.
Who is an American of allthings.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Let me tell you, nobody, nobody expected an
American, because the commonwisdom has been that the
universal church would prefernot to have.
See, this is kind of like theway that, shall we say, the
(05:08):
common rumor, the common, notwisdom, but the common story
goes, and that is that theAmerican church is considered a
fairly wealthy church andcontributes quite a bit to the
Vatican and the rest of theworld.
And so since we are an outsizedblock, shall we say that the
(05:37):
normal accepted, the acceptedstory was that the cardinals of
the church of the world wouldnot want to couple that with an
american as pope because itwould give too much weight, too
much power too much power to theunited states.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
You know trump is the one to pull that in.
You know he made a deal withconclave.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, I know, ofcourse, uh, but you know it is
unusual and I I don't think Ihad heard anything quite like
this before uh happening.
Now we did have an america, Imean in terms from this
(06:28):
hemisphere, that's true, that isthe Western Hemisphere.
First time that that hadhappened, yes, right, and so now
we've had the second one fromthis hemisphere, that's right.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
So when everybody, when they said Robert Pavon,
what was it?
Prevost, prevost, and he is.
Everybody knew he's an American, I think half the world fainted
.
Half the world fainted.
(07:00):
But here's the interesting part, that is the Catholic world.
Yes, okay, but here's theinteresting part, that is the
Catholic world.
Yes, but here's the interestingpart.
When I've heard the cardinalsspeak, the cardinals that were
on the conclave, they said thathis Americanness was hardly ever
even a factor.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Is that because he was also a citizen of Peru?
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yes, I think it's because he has spent a large
amount of his time as amissionary in Peru.
He was a bishop in the diocesein Peru and he has been working
in the Vatican and he is largelyunknown in the United States.
Okay, and he is largely unknownin the United States, okay, so
(07:46):
he was never considered when wetalked about the American
cardinals.
He was never mentioned Amongthe cardinals, because he's a
cardinal, technically born inthe United States, but he's not.
He wasn't a cardinal in theUnited States, okay, yeah, and
so Was he ever a bishop in theUnited States?
But he's not.
He wasn't a cardinal in theunited states?
Speaker 4 (08:06):
okay, yeah, and so was he ever a bishop in?
The united states no, okay, sohe's never a bishop or a
cardinal in the united states,so his leadership took place
primarily in peru, south america, yep, majority world country,
and then also in the vaticancells, okay what you got
anything else to add to that.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
No, I think it's frankly.
I think he's a great bridge, ifyou will, between the Americas,
because he is American.
He is Chicago, south Chicago,born and lived there for a bit
and lived there for a bit, but alot of his ministry and
(08:49):
missionary work has been in very, very poor areas, if you will.
So he has family in the UnitedStates.
He has that perspective ofAmerica, if you will, but he's
also lived, touched, breathed inreally remote and poor
communities, if you will.
So I think it's going to be.
(09:10):
You know he's already gottensome heat out of some tweets.
I don't know if you guys sawthat already, but we can get
into that later A little bit.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
Yeah, I'm curious what are people in Guatemala I
mean, guatemala is mainly aCatholic country, right?
I mean in terms of religious,what are they?
Speaker 3 (09:27):
saying down there, there's a lot of evangelical
churches here.
I don't know what we would callit Father Mario, there's a word
but it's where they mix sort oflike indigenous culture with
Catholic teaching, if you willsyncretism yeah, syncretism yeah
(09:52):
syncretism.
so there's, there's, there's abit of that too, um, but for the
most part I think I thinkpeople have this kind of
optimism about his perspectiveand his work.
Really, for the most part, Ihaven't really heard too much.
I mean, as Catholics, we'reglad that the seat is no longer
(10:16):
empty, right, and we trust inthe Holy Spirit that's guiding
the Church.
So to some large degree youknow, regardless, if we would
have been Italian, american,chinese, like African, it
doesn't matter, it doesn'tmatter.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
That's the man who needed to be in that chair right
now.
I heard that in the conclavethere was really hardly any sort
of weight given to where aperson's from.
It's more of what does he bringto the direction of the church,
and I think that when they sawhim, he's well known among the
(11:05):
cardinals.
And the reason he's well knownis because for the last year and
a half to two years, he hasbeen in charge of recommending
to the bishops who should bepicked as bishop.
Yeah, yeah, who should bepicked as bishop.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
Yeah, yeah, so he's involved in a very significant
place, influential place withinthe Vatican, right?
Yeah, rudy, you said that hewas originally from Chicago,
south side of Chicago.
I'm wondering well, I'm notgoing to wonder about that, I
was going to say somethingrather silly, you know, but I'm
(11:47):
not going to say it.
Does he like the deep dish?
Well, no, I thought maybe he.
You know, in his former life hemight have been known as Bad,
bad Leroy Brown, but I don'tknow about that.
But then Jesus did a big workin his life and he's now a
cardinal.
But no, I mean, that is a roughpart of the city.
I've lived up there.
I know it's a rough part of thecity and a lot of crime takes
(12:12):
place up there and it's a verydifficult time.
But he is a Chicago White Soxfan, I found out.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
That's what I have I heard?
Speaker 4 (12:17):
You heard about that.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
That is a basketball team.
No, that's baseball actually.
Oh Base.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
That is a basketball team.
No, that's baseball actually.
Oh, baseball.
They have two baseball teamsChicago Cubs and Chicago White.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Sox, okay, okay.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
The White Sox beat the Astros a few years back in
the World Series.
Oh, they did, yeah, they didfour games straight.
It was very tough, was it fivegames?
Speaker 3 (12:41):
I think it's 05.
Was that 2005?
Speaker 4 (12:43):
It might have been.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Yeah, it was back in that era, yeah, I think there's
a video of now Pope Leo XIVattending the game Of that game
really.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
Yeah, Whoa, whoa.
Did he dance?
Did he get up and do a holydance when they won the Astros?
Speaker 3 (13:03):
That's probably why they won to be honest.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Okay, all right, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
You have to.
I mean, you know some people.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
I know it doesn't fit your profile exactly, but some
people enjoy sports you know,yeah, Some people do Especially
well the World Series, that'sgolf, right.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
No, no, that's also baseball.
World series, that's golf,right?
No, no, that's, that's alsobaseball.
Well, that's baseball, baseball.
Yeah, the rider cup, now,that's, that's that's I thought
the rider cup was horse racing.
No, it's actually not.
No, it's called the kentuckyderby oh, oh gosh I thought that
was football the derby no,that's darby derby, derby, derby
(13:43):
.
Yeah, they play football, butfootball is really soccer over
there.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Anyway, I'm really not that dumb people, I just
have a reputation.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
You have a reputation to live up to.
Hey, listen before we go tobreak.
One of the things that I did inpreparation for the show is I
was curious to what Pope Leo hasbeen saying about Protestants
all this time.
Interesting, yeah, and he madea statement a few years back, if
you help me explain it to us,that he thought that Protestants
(14:17):
were barnacles on the bark ofPeter.
I don't think he said that.
You don't think he said that.
I said that.
You said that.
You don't think he said that.
I said that, you said that.
Well, I think he's quoting you,but I don't speak Latin, so
what does that mean exactly?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
A barnacle on the bark of Peter.
Yes, Barnacle.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
Aren't barnacles sort of low?
Speaker 2 (14:35):
in life forms.
No, no, barnacle.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
That does sound like something Mario would say to the
audience.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
It was, yeah, was.
You guys know what a barnacleis?
Yeah, I know what a barnacle.
For those of you who don't know, they are crustaceans, I think,
or are they that attach to thehull of a boat, and uh, they're
mollusks or something, yes, so,and they attach themselves that
way.
And the bark of peter'sconsidered the uh and they
attach themselves that way andthe bark of Peter is considered
the ship of Peter heading.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
So bark is the word meaning ship, ship, yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Okay, barnacles, on the bark of Peter you attach.
Yeah, we have to go to break,but the barnacle attaches itself
to the hall of Peter, so youall are in for the ride.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
We're in for the ride , but we're lower life I will
explain that when we come back.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
This is KMTH 1070, and we'll be right back.
Speaker 9 (15:30):
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Speaker 2 (17:30):
The Answer Okay, well , welcome back here to the show
(17:54):
of faith.
I know not everybody has got abody like you, because you know
we're talking about the Popetonight and when you get into
serious theology, especiallyserious theology from the
perspective of the Catholictheology.
I don't know if many of ourlisteners know this, but let me
(18:17):
give you an example.
Several years ago there was agentleman here who was a pastor
of a protestant church, and I'llnever forget it because as we
were walking out the building heasked I don't remember the
(18:40):
gentleman's name he said father,what is the process that a
person would have to would gothrough to leave the Catholic
Church and become a member ofanother church?
And because I have several menI mean several people in my
congregation that would like toformally leave the Catholic
(19:01):
Church and become members of mychurch, and he asked me that
question Is there a procedurethat you go through?
And so I looked at him and Isaid do you have any children?
And he says yeah, I have twochildren.
I said what's the procedure forthem to unchild themselves from
(19:22):
you, to unchild themselves fromyou?
Is there any way for them tostop being your children and
stop being related to you?
And he goes uh, no.
And I said there's no way thatyou can unpart yourself from
(19:43):
being part of the church.
Once you're baptized, you arepart of the one church.
I was just telling David thatmy best image of the brokenness
of the church right now betweenProtestants, catholics and
different parts of the body ofChrist is the image of a body,
(20:06):
but imagine a human body thathas a broken bone.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
Or two.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Or two.
Okay, you still are one body.
The union of the body is notperfect because it has some
broken bones, but it is stillone body.
You would never say that thearm say the arm that is broken
is no longer part of the body soby by joining another church or
(20:35):
protestant church, you're stillpart you're still part of the
catholic church still part ofthe catholic church.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
But you, you're a.
Is that a point?
Speaker 2 (20:43):
a broken arm at that point yeah, but like, for
example, you still you're aBaptist, but you are still, in
one real sense, part of theCatholic Church.
We may be, you know, have abroken tradition, but you're
still part of the one body ofthe Church.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
Well, every week in a lot of churches around the city
and the world, there's a thingcalled the Nicene Creed.
That's correct, and afterscripture is read and after the
sermon, and such people willstand up and they will recite
the Nicene Creed.
Part of that recital is webelieve in one holy Catholic and
(21:23):
and apostolic church.
Now, the word catholic theremeans what I mean in.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
In that sense I know the word catholic there means
remember where the word comesfrom.
It means catholic meaning inrelationship to the whole.
Christ came to establish onechurch, okay not 33 not 33 000
(21:49):
or you know.
So when we use the wordcatholic referring to a
denomination, that's really afull sense of the.
Catholica is the one body ofChrist.
You can't be a denomination andbe Catholic, because it's not a
(22:13):
denomination, it is the onechurch, and we recognize
protesters as part of the church.
Now we were saying I was justtelling David that when a
Protestant wants to becomeCatholic in the Catholic Church,
we cannot re-baptize, becauseyou are already baptized.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
So if you're baptized in the Baptist Church or
Lutheran or whatever.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
That's if they use the same Trinitarian.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Well, no because yes and no Because, Rudy.
The problem is this.
The problem that is, if youdon't baptize in the Trinitarian
formula, you're not Christian,You're not part of the body.
Just start.
For example, Mormons are notChristians, they're not
Christian, You're not part ofthe body.
Just start.
For example, Mormons are notChristians.
They're great people, wonderfulpeople.
(23:09):
Jehovah Witnesses are wonderfulpeople, but they're not
Christians.
Speaker 4 (23:15):
Because their baptism they don't confess the Nicene
Creed.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
The Creed and the Trinity and the Incarnation.
So from that perspective, uh,you can't even consider yourself
a christian unless you arebaptizing in the name of the
trinity and in the incarnationand belief, believing in the
trend that's right so at thatpoint, but that's why the pope
(23:40):
is.
It's really interesting becausein one level he is still part,
even though maybe not recognizedin different understandings
from our understanding.
He is the vicar of Christ forthe whole body of Christ.
So he would consider himselfstill, pastorally, your pastor
(24:04):
as a Protestant.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
That's interesting.
Yeah, because a lot ofProtestants wouldn't recognize
that.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
No, they would not.
But from our perspective,meaning the Catholic perspective
, we, at the deepest level,understand that there is one
church, and because I mean thinkabout it that's what Nicaea
said.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
We believe that we're one.
And that's what Jesus said inJohn's Gospel.
That's right.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
And so, at the deepest theological level, we
can't say that there's more thanone church because there's one
body of Christ.
You can't do it.
We may be broken, we may havehad problems in history.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
But so is every family so is every family yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
This is why David bought those red shoes to be
part of the one Catholic family.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
There you go.
That's why I'm wearing redshoes.
There you go.
We'll continue talking'mwearing red shoes.
There you go.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
We'll continue talking about this because this
is an interesting point ofwhat's called in theology.
This is the area calledecclesiology.
Ecclesiology is the study ofthe theology of the church and
it's an interesting changebetween David, who is a member
of the Baptist tradition, and me, of the Catholic tradition,
(25:25):
known from perspective of adenomination, but at the deepest
level those are actuallymisnomers, but we'll get into
that when we come back.
This is KMTH 1070, and we'll beright back.
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There is a season, turn, turn, turn and a time to
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(28:25):
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Speaker 2 (28:26):
Welcome back to the show of faith.
Speaker 4 (28:31):
Yeah, you forgot where you were for a minute.
I did that's because you'vedone four masses today, yeah,
and you're tired, I can tell.
I can see it on your face, rudy.
What is it?
Is there any particular draw toPope Leo XIV?
(28:54):
Because he is Spanish-speakingand because he is also a
Peruvian citizen.
He's an American citizen, buthe's also a Peruvian citizen.
He's an American citizen, buthe's also a Peruvian citizen.
Is he deemed from that part ofthe world?
I mean, how do people look athim from that part of the world?
Speaker 3 (29:18):
I think people really see him as American.
But the fact that he spent what?
Over 30 years, I think right,father Mario outside the US and
I think they're very comfortablein, he has a dual citizenship
but I mean I see him as American, you know, and he may not feel
(29:42):
too American, I'm not too sure,but I think he's in America.
I mean people see him asAmerican.
Everywhere you go everybodysays oh, the American pope,
everybody was elected asAmerican pope, great.
They don't say oh he's, butthey also say, but he spent a
lot of time outside the US, inPeru, so people are recognizing
(30:05):
that, but he's very muchAmerican.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
He went to school in Villanova.
That's where he went to college.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
I have a joke about that, about Villanova.
No, no about, because he got a.
It's a math joke, though, so Idon't know.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
Oh, it's a degree.
He got a degree in mathematics,didn't he?
Speaker 3 (30:29):
He has.
He does have a degree inmathematics.
Speaker 4 (30:33):
Well, Father Mario won't be able to appreciate this
, but I will Go ahead with yourjoke.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
He, because of his degree in mathematics, he
definitely understands.
He not only understands sin,but he also understands cos Cos,
cosine, cos and sine Cos oh.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
Got it.
Got it Sin.
Yes, what is sin?
Sine and cosine.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Sine and cosine Sine and cosine.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Yes, what is sin?
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Sine and cosine, sine and cosine, sine and cosine yes
, Okay, that just went over like98, 99% of our audiences.
Now what the heck are theytalking?
Speaker 3 (31:13):
about.
I think our audience is verysmart.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
They are smart, but I bet 98% doesn't know what sin
and cosin.
Whatever that is Sine andcosine.
We've got to go back to ourmath training for that 98%
doesn't know what sin and cosin.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
Whatever that is Sin and cosin, we've got to go back
to our math training for that.
A math major.
But Villanova Now that leads meto ask the question about he is
the first Augustinian pope,right, I mean?
Speaker 2 (31:43):
You have to remember that in the Catholic tradition,
the development of smallcommunities or communities of
men or women that came togetheras followers of a particular
saint and, for example, popeFrancis was a Jesuit, okay, but
(32:13):
he took the name Francis Francis.
The order that came togetheraround St Francis was called the
Franciscans, and theFranciscans came together around
saint francis was called thefranciscans, and the franciscans
came together as a group ofpeople, men and and women, some
(32:34):
franciscans well, franciscansare men that presented
themselves to the pope and saidwe would like to practice our
faith in service constantly tothe poor, and so they started
what was called the franciscanorder, and so that is a group of
people that follow, that aredisciples of christ and they're
(32:59):
in the catholic church, but theyfollow the franciscan way of
life.
okay, and the Pope is a memberof a group that follows St
Augustine, and they're calledAugustinians.
Speaker 4 (33:16):
St Augustine's earlier.
That's right, yeah, yeah.
So what would be thecharacteristics?
What would be unique about them, Augustinians compared to the
Franciscans?
Speaker 2 (33:30):
let's say Rudy, do you have anything in there?
Speaker 3 (33:35):
So the Augustinians tend to be.
Look, there's a lot of nuancesbetween them.
They're similar If you'relooking at them from kind of
overhead.
They do a lot of pastoral work.
Augustinians are a little bitmore known for do a lot of
pastoral work.
Augustinians are a little bitmore known for doing a lot of
contemplative prayer.
(33:55):
So they're known for a lot ofwhat we would call community
life.
So they live in thesecommunities and they share most
of their possessions, if not all.
They live together.
They're known a lot formissionary and pastoral work in
(34:19):
a lot of remote areas, which youwould find also in Franciscans
and man.
There's just a lot of differentorders and man, there's just a
lot of different orders.
So a lot of it kind of boilsdown to really the amount, for
example, of service work thatthey do or the amount of
contemplative work.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Yeah, for example, that's what's called the charism
, the charism of an order.
Say, for example, theFranciscans would constantly
have a charism, meaning a giftto serve, especially the poor.
Augustinians would have thattoo, but in a different
(35:01):
spirituality.
They have a different kind ofspirituality.
The Jesuits, for example.
The Jesuits would be likeFrancis Pope Francis was a
Jesuit.
They would be like Francis PopeFrancis was a Jesuit.
They would be very academic,they would be focused on the
academic fields, and so you havethat's their charism.
(35:23):
They are teachers.
Speaker 4 (35:24):
And education.
Education.
That's right, because I meansome of the greatest schools in
the country and around the worldhave been Jesuit schools.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
And so you have the Pope being Augustinian and we
could do a little more researchon the charism or the taste
Shall we say the flavor of theAugustinians.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
I pulled up some of the values here.
It's essentially charity andunity, prayer and worship,
moderation and self-denial, carefor the sick, obedience and
governance.
So those are essentially thevalues that they kind of fall
(36:07):
under these Augustinian ruleswhich were written by Augustine
in the year around 400.
Written by Augustine in theyear around 400.
Now the order itself wasn'tformally established until 1250s
, I think 1244.
So it came out a time later,but it wasn't necessarily.
But that doesn't mean thatthere weren't people living
(36:29):
according to those charisms orthose values for hundreds of
years before that.
That's when it was sort ofrecognized officially by the
Pope.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
I find it, though I was listening to him, to the new
Pope, and when he celebratedMass with the Cardinals and he
began by speaking English, andboy, you could tell it's an
American English.
It is.
Well, yeah, yes, yeah and boyyou could tell it's an american
english.
Yeah, it is well.
Yeah, it's like, for example,if I started speaking to you in
(36:56):
spanish, okay, I wouldimmediately know how to speak
spanish with a cuban accent,because I was born in cuba.
Now, even worse, because I wasborn in Cuba, but I came to the
United States when I was 10years old.
Now the Pope got his entireeducation here in the United
(37:19):
States.
Speaker 4 (37:22):
And it was later in life when he went to Peru.
That's correct, yeah, and so helearned it.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
So he's.
I think Rudy is very correct inthis.
He's got a strong American coreto him.
Speaker 4 (37:37):
But you know, he speaks Italian, he speaks
Portuguese, he speaks French, hespeaks Spanish, he reads Latin,
he reads German, he reads.
I mean, you know otherlanguages as well.
I mean, here's a guy that he'shad to, maybe, but he's needed
(37:59):
to study these languages, sohe's not very American when it
comes to that, because Americansusually know one language and
we don't know it that well.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
I think that this is a guy who's American but he's
exposed to himself to atremendous amount of
international culture.
I have high hopes for him.
Speaker 4 (38:19):
I know we've got to go to break here in just a
minute, but what I foundinteresting is, as I was reading
about him, almost all sort ofthe news reports initially were
what does he think about Trump'simmigration policy?
What does he think about theLGBTQ questions?
What does he think aboutdiversity and such?
(38:40):
What does he think aboutclimate change?
I mean, it's as if these arethe sort of the litmus test.
You've got to ask thesequestions because these are the
things that are on the mind ofthe reporter, let's say Of
American reporters, Of Americanreporters.
But you go around the world andI would think that some of
those things might be the same,but but the majority are not.
(39:01):
A lot of them are verydifferent.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Yeah, I mean, when you're talking about LGBTQ stuff
and DEI and stuff like that,that's not a world priority.
Speaker 4 (39:09):
That's pretty, yeah.
Well, climate change is Climatechange.
Climate change is a littledifferent, because a lot of
people around the world areconcerned and they feel that the
poor of a country are those whoare going to be paying the
highest price for whateverhappens.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Rich people can take care of whatever, but people who
are poor are going to be theones left holding the stick on
that We'll have to see, becausebetween India and China they
have a lot of poor people andthey're not very concerned about
climate change.
Well, that's true.
This is KNTH 1070, and we'll beright back.
Speaker 9 (39:54):
AM 1070 and FM 1033, the answer.
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Speaker 9 (41:29):
You aren't the only one who enjoys listening to
Salem Media.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
Group Everybody at Salem Media Group you've been
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More group you've beenincredible, you really are,
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Speaker 9 (41:54):
Payout 1070 and FM 1033.
Speaker 8 (41:57):
The answer You're an angel to me.
Speaker 4 (42:10):
This is Pope Leo's favorite song, oh yeah.
Speaker 8 (42:19):
Every time he says hello, how I love him, how I
tingle when he passes by.
Every time he says hello, myheart begins to fly.
Johnny Angel, he's gotsomething that I can't resist,
but he doesn't even know that Iexist.
(42:43):
I'm in heaven.
I get carried away.
I dream of him and me and howit's gonna be.
All the fellas call me up for adate, but I just sit and wait.
I'd rather concentrate onJohnny Angel, cause I love him,
(43:09):
and together we will see howlovely heaven will be.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
And together we will see how lovely heaven will be
and welcome back to the show offaith, david.
Let me ask you now, mm-hmm,from the perspective of you, of
course, have to represent allProtestants, all the way from
the clean and dead.
(43:44):
How do you think the overallChristian Protestant world is
seeing?
Because the moment you see allthis hubbub going in the Vatican
, all the pageantry and the Popecoming out and the election,
how's that going over in most ofthe time?
Speaker 4 (44:05):
Yeah, I mean that's a great question and it is a huge
, huge expanse of differentresponses.
Part of it is there are peoplethat don't get it.
They don't understand it, theydon't understand that world,
they don't understand thesignificance.
They feel like too much isbeing put upon a man like that.
(44:28):
So, and they, they look atChrist as being the head of the
church and not somebody else,and they don't understand this
language of the vicar of christ,for example.
So you have you have a wholesection of, I think, protestants
and I don't know if thismajority or not but who don't
really understand thesignificance and and would
(44:50):
themselves look a littlesuspiciously at it as if it's
it's wrong-headed right, atheological aberration, if you
will.
Okay, yeah, and then you have alot of Protestants, I mean, who
are maybe Lutherans or Anglicansand others who understand the
(45:10):
significance of the Pope as thehead of the Catholic Church.
The Pope as the head of theCatholic Church, which is the
largest Christian groupdenomination body, go back to
our metaphor body and the world,and they recognize the gravity
of that to some degree.
So I think you have all sortsof different variations of
(45:36):
themes, I mean, because I knowProtestants that think Catholics
are heretics.
You know every Catholic is aheretic and they're not really
Christians and those kind ofthings.
And then I know those who aresort of almost on the verge of
converting to Catholicism aswell.
So you've got a really wideexpanse of that.
(46:00):
So I mean, a part of what we dohere is, I think, we try to
explain the worlds a little bitto give each other a better
understanding, and we do that ina kidding way a lot of times,
but it's a very, very seriousmatter.
Very, very serious issues and,yeah, very serious issues.
And yeah, I'm excited for thechurch to have a new pope, a new
(46:25):
St Francis.
Sorry, pope Francis had beenill for a while and I was
concerned that he would not beable to make it very long or in
a robust way, and I think one ofthe things for sure is that the
pope must be a robustindividual.
(46:45):
Yes, I mean he's 69, right, sohe could have a 10, 15 year
papacy or longer.
Yeah, it's always possible.
Speaker 2 (46:54):
Yeah and really you said that in Latin America,
around the Catholics that you'rearound in Latin America, is
there any sense of excitement?
You said that mostly it's theAmerican Pope.
Speaker 3 (47:10):
Yeah, I mean that's really how they see him.
I mean, he was born there, hisformation is there, he went to
school there, he went to collegethere.
I mean he's American.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
The fact that he's also a Peruvian citizen make any
difference.
Speaker 3 (47:29):
I mean, I think, I think it has, like I said, I
think it's maybe like a, like aplus, if you will, father, but
really he really is, if youthink about it, the amount of
people with immigrants andimmigration being a global let's
(47:55):
call it point of concern orsort of focus.
I think they picked somebody, Ithink, that really sort of
understands the nuances of thisbecause he's seen it.
He's been growing up in Americafor a long time but he's also
spent outside growing up inAmerica for a long time but he's
(48:19):
also spent outside.
Now, of course, his missionarywork has been in a lot of kind
of remote areas, but he isexposed to a lot of people that
are moving frontiers, that havebeen sort of displaced and
forgotten about.
And I think there's a lot ofoptimism about the Pope and I
know if he's kind of been and.
David, you were alluding to thisearlier.
(48:39):
He's kind of been put throughthe litmus test right as to what
he says about immigration andthen LGBTQ and gay marriage and
this and that.
And look, if you just do alittle bit of research, what he
says parodies exactly Churchteaching and doctrine.
(49:01):
So he hasn't come out and saidanything different that Pope
Francis, that Benedict, that JPII would have said in their time
.
So I actually find it quiteinteresting that he picked I
don't know if you guys know toomuch about the history of Pope
Leo's, but there have been fouror five Leo's in the past that
(49:22):
have really led the Church intokind of new age, especially Pope
Leo XIII.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
Yeah, because Leo XIII was really into.
It's interesting because LeoXIII brought the church into
having a tremendous amount tosay during the latter part of
the Industrial Revolution oh,that's right, the 1800s.
(49:50):
That's right because I thinkthat Leo XIV sees himself as
saying a lot about the AIrevolution, the information
revolution, the Internet,because we are going through,
you know, we went through anindustrial revolution, but now
(50:11):
we're going through another kindof revolution, which is in
terms of information andinterconnectedness and the whole
issue of electronics.
Speaker 4 (50:21):
Now, earlier you said AI, is that Anthony Ingersoll?
Yes, it's Anthony Ingersoll.
Speaker 2 (50:27):
Okay, I was just wondering, because he's a friend
of mine too.
He's also artificialintelligence.
Oh is it?
Speaker 4 (50:32):
But Anthony Ingersoll is very good, okay, he's a good
Swedish friend of mine.
He loves those meatballs overat IKEA.
Love those things.
Yeah, yeah, no, hey, did youknow that that that pope leo the
14th, now known as robertprevost, uh watched the movie
conclave before his own conclave?
(50:54):
I heard that he had watched it.
I mean, it was almost, you know, just a few days before.
Speaker 2 (51:02):
Yeah, I heard that he had watched it.
Speaker 4 (51:05):
I thought you were warning us off of that.
Speaker 2 (51:07):
I did and I still would.
I still think it's a disgustingmovie.
Okay, but I think that theissue is that it's been praised
for the acting and for the kindof giving you a little bit of
the procedure, but at the sametime it's really when you really
talk to the cardinals that wereparticipating in conclaves, the
(51:31):
temperament is not as political.
Conclave was a very politicalkind of intrigue as who's going
to get it, who's going to get it.
That's not the way that it isin the real conclave.
Speaker 4 (51:43):
Yeah, yeah it is secretive, as people have said,
but sometimes you need to besecluded and not prone to the
internet and prone to phoneinternet and prone to phone
calls and prone to emails andthose kind of things.
Speaker 2 (52:01):
It's not a political process at all.
Every cardinal that I haveheard has said that the one
thing that people make a mistakeon is thinking that the
conclave is kind of like who'srunning for pope.
That's not the way it is.
There's a saying that says, ifyou enter the conclave, a pope
you will come.
(52:21):
You will come out a cardinal,meaning whoever the favorites
are and listen, look at it.
Speaker 4 (52:27):
Nobody saw this guy in terms of the favorites he was
a, as they to use a racinganalogy horse racing the, the
dark horse.
If at all Use a horse, thatwould not be.
Speaker 2 (52:39):
But even the people who were handicapping, who it
could be what is called thepapabiles, the guys who can be
Pope he wasn't even counted.
Speaker 4 (52:51):
So Came out of the back of the pack.
They went in.
Hey, did you know?
One of his favorite games isWordle.
No, did you know that?
No, I wonder what languages heplays.
What languages?
Speaker 2 (53:05):
I have no idea what Wordle is.
Speaker 4 (53:06):
Wordle.
It's a word game that a lot ofpeople like I think it started
in New York Times.
Okay, I like it.
Speaker 3 (53:13):
Do you like.
Speaker 4 (53:14):
Wordle it's a good game.
I like it.
Do you like the wordle it's agood game?
What is it, tell me, for?
Speaker 3 (53:18):
those who don't know real quick 20 seconds.
It's a good game that you getto play.
You have to guess the word thatit's trying to based on.
Just play it.
It's kind of a weird game, butit's a game of sort of guessing
the word by them giving youdifferent letters, certain clues
(53:39):
or something.
Speaker 4 (53:40):
Okay, all right.
So I bet he would be tough toplay Scrabble with a guy that
knows that many languages.
Yeah, wouldn't he be tough, Imean, if you say, okay, any
language that I know, okay, itcould be a name language.
Speaker 2 (53:53):
Well, I would make up my own language.
Speaker 4 (53:57):
Well, okay, folks, pope, leo bless him.
Speaker 2 (54:00):
God bless him.
We have a new pope and it'sgoing to be an interesting thing
for every part of the worldbecause he'll start making the
church and applying the church,teaching to all kinds of
different things and coming outwith encyclicals and stuff like
that.
So it will be interesting, Okay.
(54:21):
Well, thank you very much forhaving been here at St Cyril At
KNTH 1070, we are here everySunday night and we'll be here
again next Sunday night.
Thank you, Rudy, Thank you,David, Thank you, Thank you and
hello to all.
David, Thank you, Thank you andhello to all the mothers of
Mother's Day KMTH.
(54:41):
God bless you.
Speaker 9 (54:43):
Have a nice night.
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