October 21, 2025 • 54 mins
What if gratitude isn’t a seasonal sentiment but a moral obligation that reshapes who we become? We take on a single line from the Eucharistic prayer—“It is right and just, our duty and our salvation, always and everywhere to give you thanks”—and follow it all the way from Sunday liturgy into everyday life. With a professor, a priest, a millennial engineer, and a rabbi at the table, we examine why failing to thank the Giver isn’t just impolite; it’s untrue, unjust, and spiritually dangerous.
We begin with the simple claim that gratitude is “right.” If every breath and moment is a gift, silence isn’t neutral—it’s wrong. From there we dig into “just,” drawing on the classical idea that justice gives each their due. If God is Creator, acknowledgment is due. We talk about the sting of ingratitude, the way entitlement blinds us like a goldfish that can’t see the water, and how the Eucharist itself is thanksgiving that trains our hearts to notice grace.
Then we tackle “duty,” pushing back on the modern impulse to ask, “What do I get out of it?” Commanded thanksgiving doesn’t drain love; it sustains it. Duty carries us to worship when feelings lag and, paradoxically, often returns the joy we thought we lacked.
Finally, we explore why thanksgiving is tied to “our salvation.” Ingratitude bends the soul inward and fractures the relationship with God and neighbor. Gratitude, practiced “always and everywhere,” isn’t about thanking God for evil; it’s about thanking God within every circumstance, naming mercies without romanticizing pain.
Along the way, we share morning prayers, stories about missed obligations, and practical ways to cultivate a habit of thanks that spills into justice, generosity, and hope.
If this conversation nudged you to notice even one overlooked gift today, share the episode with a friend, subscribe for more thoughtful dialogues, and leave a review telling us where you’re practicing “always and everywhere” gratitude this week.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_10 (00:01):
There's something happening here, but what it is
ain't exactly clear.
There's a man with a gun overthere.
Tellin me I got to beware.
I think it's time we stop.
Children, what's that sound?
(00:23):
Everybody look what's goingdown.
But nobody's right ifeverybody's wrong, young people
(00:46):
speak in their minds.
I get so much resistance frombehind every time we stop.
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look what's goingdown.
SPEAKER_11 (01:00):
Welcome to a show of faith where a professor, priest,
millennial, and rabbi discusstheology, philosophy, morality,
and ethics, and anything else wefeel like discussing.
If you have any response to ourtopics or any comments regarding
what we say, we'd love to hearfrom you.
Email us at a show of faith1070at gmail.com, a show of
(01:20):
faith1070 at gmail.com.
You can hear our shows again andagain by listening pretty much
anywhere podcasts are heard.
Our priest is Father MarioArroyo, retired pastor of St.
Cyril of Alexandria and then10,000 Block of Westheimer.
Hello.
Our professor is David Capes,Protestant Minister and Director
of Academic Programming for theLanier Theological Library.
SPEAKER_09 (01:41):
Here at Accounted For.
SPEAKER_11 (01:43):
Rudy Kong is our millennial systems engineer and
has his master's degree intheology from the University of
St.
Thomas.
SPEAKER_12 (01:50):
Howdy, howdy.
SPEAKER_11 (01:52):
I am Stuart Federal, retired rabbi of Congregation
Sha'ar Hashaloon, the Clear Lakearea of Houston, Texas.
Miranda is our board operator,and she makes us sound
fantastic.
So welcome to a show of faith.
SPEAKER_09 (02:06):
I just want to make sure that the blasphemy laws are
still in place.
SPEAKER_13 (02:23):
Is Rudy on the phone?
Rudy?
unknown (02:25):
I am.
SPEAKER_11 (02:26):
Ah, Rudy Kung, our millennial systems engineer and
master's degree in theology fromthe University of St.
Thomas.
SPEAKER_12 (02:33):
Howdy, howdy.
SPEAKER_11 (02:34):
Howdy, howdy.
SPEAKER_13 (02:35):
Rudy, how'd you like the joke?
SPEAKER_12 (02:39):
I mean, it's good, not your best word.
SPEAKER_13 (02:44):
Okay.
Today I am the show director.
And let me introduce the topicbecause there's no article to
read.
I will be providing the fodder.
SPEAKER_11 (03:00):
The fodder?
SPEAKER_13 (03:01):
The fodder.
SPEAKER_11 (03:02):
Because you're the fodder.
SPEAKER_13 (03:03):
I am the fodder.
SPEAKER_11 (03:03):
The fodder who's the federal federal federal federal
five.
SPEAKER_13 (03:04):
I am providing the fodder who's the fodder.
SPEAKER_11 (03:07):
Right.
SPEAKER_13 (03:07):
Okay.
Now, there's going to be twoparts.
But the first part, I would liketo quote to you part of a the
prayer that we say at thebeginning of the Eucharist.
When you see the Eucharist hastwo parts.
It has the liturgy of the Word,the Bible readings and the
homily.
And then the second part, theliturgy of the Eucharist, when
(03:30):
the actual Lord's Supper iscelebrated.
Now, don't worry, this will behad a Well I have a lot of
questions about that, but goahead.
Okay.
SPEAKER_11 (03:38):
Not germane to tonight.
SPEAKER_13 (03:39):
Okay.
There's a sentence that occurs.
See, in the Catholic Church, thepriest has a choice on a regular
Sunday basis of regularly fourdifferent what are called
Eucharistic prayers.
They're prayers that are alreadywritten down before we get to
the point of on the night he wasbetrayed, Jesus took the okay.
(04:03):
And the there's a sentence thathas always fascinated me.
And the sentence is is this itis right and just it is our duty
and our salvation always andeverywhere to give you thanks,
Almighty and ever living God.
SPEAKER_11 (04:22):
That's reflected in Scripture.
SPEAKER_13 (04:24):
Okay.
It is right and just.
It is our duty and oursalvation.
I would like the reaction forthe first 15, 20 minutes of the
show, to those four words.
Why have those words, what dothose four words say to you
(04:45):
about why we should be gratefulthanking God?
So, first of all, for example,why is it right?
Why do we have to say it'sright?
Why why would we say that if wedidn't, if we said it's right,
it must mean that it's wrong notto do it.
So why do we thank why do we sayit is right and it would be
(05:10):
wrong not to thank God?
SPEAKER_11 (05:13):
I kind of also think that there's another nuance to
the word right.
SPEAKER_13 (05:17):
Okay.
SPEAKER_11 (05:18):
And it has to do with what is just.
SPEAKER_13 (05:20):
Okay, but let's let's go straight first.
Why was it why would it be wrongnot to do it?
SPEAKER_11 (05:29):
Mario, if I came over to your house or parsonage,
whatever you call it, uh, and Igave you a wrapped present, what
would be your first response?
SPEAKER_13 (05:45):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_11 (05:46):
As I give it to you.
SPEAKER_13 (05:47):
Right.
SPEAKER_11 (05:48):
Okay.
SPEAKER_13 (05:49):
Or I want you to go ahead.
I could say you shouldn't have.
SPEAKER_11 (05:55):
Oh you you should have.
Okay.
Once I've given it to you andyou take it into the house and
you unwrap it and you lookinside the box and you see that
it's something you really,really like, wouldn't you also
again say thank you?
Yes.
Here's the question.
But but here's my question then.
(06:16):
Yes.
Which of the two thank yous,when I hand it to you and you
don't know what's in it, and thesecond thank you when you've
already opened the box and youknow it's in it, which is the
more uh no the more d truthful,for lack of a better term.
Second one.
Second one.
When when we know, acknowledge,understand, feel the gifts from
(06:40):
God, our natural instinct shouldbe to say thank you.
If we don't, no differently thanif I gave you a present, no
differently if you opened it upand saw that was something you
needed and didn't say thank you,that would be something we would
consider wrong.
SPEAKER_13 (06:56):
I would agree with you, but here's what I the
reason I brought it up, and Ibrought it up in a in a couple
of homilies already.
I really f believe, and um judgeactually, that we moderns,
quote, in postmodern, whateverit is, that we're like children,
(07:17):
children maybe say asix-year-old, seven-year-old
child, who says to his parents,Mom, I'm leaving home.
I don't want to live hereanymore.
He packs his suitcase and heleaves.
And he doesn't take, he doesn'tstudy it, he doesn't ask the
questions, where am I gonnalive?
(07:39):
Who's gonna give me food?
Right, who's gonna do anything?
The other part, the othercomparison is the teenager.
You see these teenagers playingaround and uh, you know,
frolicking and everything andhaving a great time, and they
have no sense.
They think everything is just agiven.
They're given.
SPEAKER_11 (07:59):
Entitlement.
SPEAKER_13 (08:00):
Entitlement.
Okay.
I have a sense So do a lot ofadults.
Yeah.
Well, I have a lot of sense thatmodern people think that the
world that we live in is normal.
If you ask many teenagers or m alot of modern people, are you
really thankful to God for life,for everything that you have?
(08:24):
I think most people would say,well, kinda, but they don't
really mean it, because theynever really think about it.
To the world, to them, the worldas it is and our society as it
is is normal is a given.
So the whole issue com comes outto be we are not grateful as a
(08:44):
society.
We are not.
SPEAKER_11 (08:46):
Nope.
SPEAKER_13 (08:47):
So something is wrong.
Something is wrong because weare not grateful.
David Rudy comments.
SPEAKER_09 (09:01):
Oh gosh, uh really thought that's a very thoughtful
way of thinking about it.
Um I think we we want to bethankful in a way.
Um we we understand that there'sbenefits to being thankful is
right to be thankful going backto the right.
(09:22):
But I don't think we think Idon't think we think much about
these things.
We we we take a breath of airand we expect that it should be
there.
We have a fine meal, we expectit to be there.
Um we have a a roof over ourheads, we expect it to be there.
So I don't think we think a lotabout the things that you're
(09:44):
that you're we're thinking abouthere that we're talking about
here.
We just expect it to be as itis.
SPEAKER_13 (09:49):
Yeah, and I want to get something straight.
We're not discussing here tocome up with any kind of uh, you
know, discovery.
All I want to do is for thosewho are listening to us, I want
to bring back our attention togratitude.
Because I don't think we as acountry and we as a culture and
(10:09):
we as individuals and we asindividuals are really grateful.
SPEAKER_11 (10:13):
I would agree.
SPEAKER_13 (10:14):
And so we're not I I don't intend to make any
controversial points.
The whole point is for us tokind of look at the need to
reaffirm our gratefulness.
SPEAKER_11 (10:27):
Isn't that also what the psalmist was talking about
when he wrote that knowledge ofGod is the beginning of wisdom?
Can you really be wise?
Can you really Can you be wiseif you don't begin with the
acknowledgement of God andexpress gratefulness?
(10:47):
No, you can't.
SPEAKER_13 (10:48):
You can't re because we you we think that the reality
that we live in is a given.
It is a given.
SPEAKER_11 (10:57):
Right.
SPEAKER_13 (10:57):
And so that makes us entitled.
We're kind of like I love thethe the the comparison that um
uh the I I'm forgetting theguy's name, the guy who wrote um
the air we breathe.
And uh he he he wrote we arelike goldfish in in an aquarium.
(11:18):
We take for granted the water.
SPEAKER_11 (11:21):
If we even know it's there.
SPEAKER_13 (11:23):
We yeah, but we take it for granted, we take for
granted that everybody in theworld has water.
Everybody is like this, and wedon't realize the amount of work
that it takes to maintain theaquarium.
Rudy.
SPEAKER_12 (11:40):
I think you're quite following reality.
(12:53):
That's correct.
SPEAKER_13 (13:03):
And you forget and we forget the fact that we are
contingent beings, meaning wedon't have to exist.
We don't have to exist.
Now let's go to the second one.
It is right and just meaningthat being ungrateful is an
injustice.
Why would you say that that'simportant?
SPEAKER_11 (13:25):
Wait, wait, wait.
SPEAKER_13 (13:25):
That not being grateful is injustice.
SPEAKER_11 (13:31):
It goes back to my first analogy, in my opinion,
that's when we're given a giftthe there are a lot of synonyms.
Justice, fair, right, fitting,appropriate is to say thank you.
And if you've ever givensomebody something, a gift, and
(13:53):
they don't, you feel slighted,you feel insulted, you feel
hurt.
But that's the injustice.
So what is an injustice?
SPEAKER_13 (14:00):
What is it what is justice?
SPEAKER_11 (14:02):
What's right and fair and what do you I'm not
sure what you mean?
SPEAKER_13 (14:06):
In other words, what why would you say what would you
say something is just?
But think about that, because Iknow it takes your brain a
little bit.
SPEAKER_11 (14:13):
And it's only right and fair and just that we have
corruption.
SPEAKER_13 (14:15):
That's right because yes.
We will be right back.
SPEAKER_03 (14:22):
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SPEAKER_13 (18:16):
And together we will see Welcome back to the show of
Well, yeah.
Okay, let's go on to the nextword.
It is right, and the next wordis just.
SPEAKER_11 (18:29):
Yes.
So when I made my comment aboutright is justice, I that's
erroneous.
SPEAKER_13 (18:34):
No, no, I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_11 (18:34):
No, because what it's right is doing the right
thing.
Justice is actually somethingelse.
But if the word's already there,then the word's already there.
SPEAKER_13 (18:42):
The interesting part is that the Vatican, when they
put out this Eucharistic prayer,all the Eucharistic prayers that
are said every single Sunday atMass, every single Sunday, all
of them have it is right andjust.
It is our duty and oursalvation, always and
everywhere, to give you AlmightyGod thanks.
(19:04):
Now notice the amount ofemphasis they're putting on
there.
SPEAKER_11 (19:09):
Right.
SPEAKER_13 (19:10):
And and I want to discuss the whole idea of why
would anyone feel the need topound that in using those words
and not only Well, the reasonthey have to pound it in is
because we take things so muchfor granted.
I agree with you.
SPEAKER_11 (19:26):
Yes.
SPEAKER_13 (19:27):
But why now let's let's go in a different order
now.
Rudy, you were gonna get firstcrack at it.
Why is it just?
It is right and just.
Would then that imply that notgiving thanks to God is an
injustice.
SPEAKER_12 (19:44):
You know, I think if if you look at the classical
arithmetic meaning of justice,it means surrender to each what
is to do.
Surrender to each what is to do.
What is when you think about it?
(20:50):
It's not necessarily about youknow what we think of the world,
but it's more about giving thecreator a proper acknowledgement
because he gives you thatacknowledgement being the
creator.
SPEAKER_13 (21:06):
Okay.
SPEAKER_09 (21:16):
Yeah, I I I think I think part of it, I mean, I
think I'll think all these areoverlapping ideas, overlapping
metaphors.
I don't think anyone standsalone.
SPEAKER_13 (21:24):
No, really.
SPEAKER_09 (21:46):
Which is also a word that is sometimes translated
grace.
But eukari means to give thanks.
So it is a recognition, andgoing back to what uh Rudy said,
it is a recognition of the gift.
And the recognition of a gift, arecognition of a gift is a just
thing.
(22:07):
It is unjust not to recognize agift.
It is unjust.
SPEAKER_13 (22:12):
You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_09 (22:12):
So I think I think yeah.
SPEAKER_13 (22:14):
Go ahead.
SPEAKER_09 (22:15):
No, I I just think it's unjust when you receive a
gift to and and and not right torecognize the gift and to say
thank you for it.
And if we understand itproperly, as as Christian,
Christianity looks atThanksgiving as a practice, not
necessarily as an attitude thatyou have.
But it's a practice, it's apractice that you cultivate.
(22:38):
So you it you you we don'talways feel thanks thanksgiving,
you know.
Um, but it's not so much a uhfeeling as it is a command.
SPEAKER_13 (22:49):
You know, that's going to be it's going to be
very, very apropos.
I want to follow that up when wecome back, because the next
word, it is right and just it isour duty.
Notice, we're gonna be talkingabout our duty.
So uh Rabbi?
SPEAKER_11 (23:07):
What?
SPEAKER_13 (23:08):
Well, uh you're just.
Yeah, in about one minute.
SPEAKER_11 (23:13):
All right.
So I think of the word just sois right and just.
Right.
Okay.
And to me, there's arelationship between the word
justice and the word judgment.
In other words, there is aprocess that we have to go
(23:34):
through that takes a look atwhat we have, what we know, uh
all the things that we'retalking about for which we need
to be grateful and make ajudgment of it.
So I think that when it saysit's right and just, that there
has to be not just the knowledgethat it's the right thing to do,
(23:57):
a good thing to do, but alsothere's a judgment of the
situation you're in.
And I think that it it requiresacknowledgement of it.
SPEAKER_13 (24:08):
You know, it's interesting, and we'll get into
this.
I want to get into this when wecome back to the next word duty.
unknown (24:13):
Right.
SPEAKER_13 (24:13):
But here's the interesting part.
Do you realize that in theCatholic Church, a willful
decision not to go to Mass isconsidered a mortal sin?
SPEAKER_11 (24:24):
The willful decision not to go to Mass.
SPEAKER_13 (24:26):
Is considered a mortal sin.
So we'll come come back becausethat's the Catholic Church
saying something veryinteresting.
Okay.
Some people we we talk aboutgoing to church these days, and
going to church these days, theysay, Oh, yeah, did you go to
church?
Yeah, no, no.
But in the Catholic Church, thewillful understanding of not
going to church, I'm not goingto do it, is a mortal sin.
SPEAKER_11 (24:47):
It's not just a sin, but a mortal sin.
Yes, correct.
SPEAKER_13 (24:49):
This is 1070 KNTH, and we'll be right back.
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SPEAKER_13 (27:33):
In the Catholic Church, the definition of a
mortal sin is three things.
One, it has to be somethingserious.
Two, it has to it has to beserious matter.
Second, sufficient reflection.
Third, full consent of the will.
SPEAKER_11 (27:51):
Sufficient deflection.
SPEAKER_13 (27:53):
Reflection.
SPEAKER_11 (27:53):
Sufficient reflection.
SPEAKER_13 (27:55):
Full consent of the will.
unknown (27:57):
Okay?
SPEAKER_11 (27:58):
So in order to be held culpable for it.
SPEAKER_13 (28:01):
Yes, to be cultivated.
So if you under I think mostpeople are not culpable of
mortal sin when they don't go tochurch.
But if they reflected, which iswhat the Catholic Church is
trying to say, if you understandthat is right and just, it is
our duty and our salvation.
Notice our salvation there.
SPEAKER_11 (28:21):
It's telling when we get to it.
SPEAKER_13 (28:23):
When we get to it, but notice what you're saying,
you're you're actually buildingthe case for a serious
separation from God when youfail to give thanks.
But let's go to the third one.
It is right and just it is ourduty.
David, you go first this time,and then to you.
SPEAKER_09 (28:45):
David?
Okay, let me think.
Let me yeah, let me think let methink through this.
I I think I think duty, duty.
Um I think I do think that thereis an obligation.
We we're commanded to thank.
To give thanks.
Uh a part of our Christian uhresponsibility, a part of what
we are to do as Christians, isto give thanks.
(29:07):
And so I I see it as a responseto God's command.
And when we uh the d the do theduty part, the the obligation,
responsibility means that we arefollowing in the commands and
walking according to theteachings of Jesus.
(29:28):
So I I would I would see it inthat the obligation, uh duty, uh
responsibility, those kinds ofthings categorize for me the
same sort of a notion.
SPEAKER_13 (29:39):
Okay, Dave.
I mean uh Rabbi?
SPEAKER_11 (29:42):
I see, we were talking in in the uh break here
in the studio, and uh I I thinkthat there is a relationship
with the word duty with the worddue.
It's their due, it's God's due.
And picking up on what Davidsaid, there's an obligation.
That we are obligated toacknowledge the gifts of God.
SPEAKER_13 (30:05):
Why?
Why are we obligated?
SPEAKER_11 (30:09):
What harm does it cause us?
I don't think it's the issue ofharm.
I think it's the issue ofbenefit.
I think that when a personacknowledges and recognizes that
they have a gift, they'vereceived a gift, then the
acknowledgement is a benefit tothe person who acknowledges it.
SPEAKER_13 (30:32):
Here's what the Catholic Church is saying to you
that if you consciously rejectgiving thanks, that you are
committing a sin that hasimperiled your soul.
SPEAKER_11 (30:43):
And you've committed that sin against God, who is the
one whose due as in duty toreceive it.
It'll make you worse.
SPEAKER_13 (30:55):
It will make you worse.
SPEAKER_11 (30:56):
Right.
So but I I think that there is,like David was saying, a
responsibility that we are givento acknowledge what we've what
we've been given.
Okay.
SPEAKER_09 (31:07):
But what we were saying in the I would go even
further to say that we are weare definitely harmed by not
getting things.
Right.
We are we are misshapen, we aremalformed when we are instead of
being formed correctly, we arebeing malformed by that.
And I think we see that aroundus when you have so many people
(31:27):
who are just taking for granteduh the good gifts that they
receive, and and whatevergenuflection they give towards
toward Thanksgiving is very muchsurface and not uh soulish.
SPEAKER_13 (31:40):
It's pro forma.
SPEAKER_11 (31:42):
See, one of the things that we were talking
about in the break also is theaughts.
We don't have aughts.
We don't have aughts.
There's oblig people talk abouttheir rights, their privileges,
but they don't talk about theirobligations and their
responsibilities.
You go to a we've said thisbefore on the air, but you go to
a hospital and the big side ofthe elevator, patient rights.
(32:04):
But there's no sign that I'veever seen that says patient
obligations.
SPEAKER_13 (32:07):
I have a friend of mine who's constantly saying we
need, you know, we have theStatue of Liberty on the East
Coast.
We need another statue on the onthe on the Pacific Coast Pacific
Coast that's a statue ofresponsibility.
SPEAKER_11 (32:22):
Yeah, what would that look like?
SPEAKER_13 (32:23):
I don't know, but it's interesting.
But it's true.
We are true.
We're constantly our right, ourright, our right.
SPEAKER_11 (32:29):
It's my right, it's my privilege, this is what I
have, I'm entitled.
Yeah.
But where's the obligations thatcome with that?
You know, the the Spider-Mansaying power has
responsibilities.
Yeah.
Well, we are given power by God,we're given power by the gifts.
Yeah.
Where the r there cut therecomes with that a
responsibility.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_13 (32:47):
Rudy?
SPEAKER_12 (32:50):
I I think it's a it's sort of a modern thing to
think that duty cancels anauthentic demonstration of love.
And I was thinking of this thingthat you say all the time, uh,
Falvar about marriage, right?
It's the decision to uniteyourself with another regardless
of how I feel.
SPEAKER_13 (33:10):
Yeah, the decision to unite yourself with God, to
care about the good of anotherno matter how you feel.
SPEAKER_12 (33:17):
No matter how I feel.
And and I think duty transcendsbeing, right?
And it's not about it's notabout how you know how do I feel
today, or I don't feel likereally loving my wife today.
I don't really feel like takingcare of or going to work or
providing or anything aboutthat.
It's it's about it's about atranscendent calling that we
(33:42):
have.
I mean, right?
(34:04):
Honoring and thanksgiving.
Uh an act of injustice and andwhat he calls a virtue, right?
And and when we render to Godthat that worship and service
(34:25):
that is due to him, we areparticipating in something that
we are called to.
SPEAKER_13 (34:31):
You know, Rudy, uh here's what I want to say,
here's another an angle at it.
Most people say, I don't go tochurch because I don't get
anything out of it.
Now, listen to that.
Now, here's we're talking aboutit is right and just right,
(34:52):
obligations on the part of theperson.
But what we say is I don't getanything.
SPEAKER_11 (34:58):
The focus is on my right.
SPEAKER_13 (35:02):
David?
SPEAKER_12 (35:05):
Yeah.
Yeah, I I I mean, I understandwhy people say that, and it's
because they're so disconnectedwith an authentic understanding
of what happens at math.
I mean, I go there for for, ofcourse, the community and
sharing with people, but themain thing is to receive that
spiritual nourishment.
(35:26):
And if I go there, it's an actof beauty.
We're gonna do something that Idon't want to go to math.
I don't feel like it, maybe I'mtired or whatever, whatever.
But I I I get my buttons and Igo there, and every single time
I come out of math, I'm thankfulI went.
(35:50):
I'm thankful I went.
I come out and I don't eventhink about feelings, but I feel
better.
It's a strange thing, but I alsowould say that it comes with it
comes with that with thatbeauty, right?
It allows God's grace to workwithin you, and that's sort of
the unspoken or unseen I wouldcall it miracle that happens
(36:14):
every Sunday, right?
SPEAKER_13 (36:22):
David David.
SPEAKER_09 (36:29):
Yeah, yeah, sorry, sorry about that.
Sorry about that.
I I had put because I wascoughing a moment ago.
I put it on mute.
Um I was talking a minute agoabout the idea that we are
misshaping, mis malformedpeople.
And I think we have a malformedsociety, and and a part of the
evidence of that is that thatstatement is I I don't go to
(36:52):
church because I don't getanything out of it, as if that
is the true measure ofeverything that we do.
Uh it shouldn't be the truemeasure.
There are some things that we doregardless of what we get out of
anything, because it is ourright, it is our duty, it is our
obligation, in a sense, to dothat.
But but Rudy's exactly right.
(37:13):
Even when you pull yourself upout of bed, go when you don't
feel like it, uh somethingusually happens that is uh
spiritual, that is beneficial,that is uh unexpected, that is
uplifting.
And um so if you say, Well, I'vegotta go get something out of it
every time, and it's gotta befor me, for me, for me, for me,
(37:37):
uh that just shows how misshapenwe are as people, that it's all
about me.
You know, I I see it's gotta beabout me.
SPEAKER_13 (37:45):
I have there's a uh uh something I read, a story I
read about a young man who'sgetting married.
A young man who's gettingmarried, and uh he's having
doubts, and he goes to have atalk with his dad, and he says,
excuse me, he says to his dad,you know, dad, I I just don't
know if this marriage is for me.
(38:07):
And his dad looks at him and hesays, It's not.
It's not for you, it's for yourwife.
You are there to help her get toheaven.
You it's not about you.
It's about loving her.
And loving her is not about you,it's about caring for her first.
(38:28):
And I've always, you know, comefound that true extremely
interesting.
Okay, let's go.
We know we're gonna go to abreak, and last boy, we're gonna
get into this one.
SPEAKER_11 (38:40):
Well, I there I want to say something go ahead.
Go ahead about duty when we comeback.
SPEAKER_13 (38:44):
Yeah, okay.
This is KNTH 1070, and we'll beright back.
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The answer.
SPEAKER_13 (41:21):
Okay, we're coming, we're coming back.
Right.
SPEAKER_11 (41:25):
Just real quick, because what we need to move on
to the salvation part.
But along with the duty, that itand it was again something that
that David mentioned, and thatis the aughts and the
obligations and and the Biblespeaks in terms of commandments.
Not good deeds, not because it'sa nice thing to do, but we are
(41:47):
commanded to do.
And these are gifts by God.
As a matter of fact, theformula, you were talking about
the formula of this prayer inthe Mass.
The formula we don't which is acontrast, we've talked about it
before.
That's not our point, not mypoint.
But we we don't bless things, webless God for things in Judaism.
(42:12):
So the formula is praised ouryou, oh God, who has commanded
us to do whatever it is thatwe're that we're reciting the
blessing for.
Okay.
In other words, we're saying,thank you, God, for giving this
commandment because ultimatelythe commandment makes me better
off.
SPEAKER_13 (42:28):
It's interesting that we don't even think of the
word commandment.
SPEAKER_11 (42:33):
No, not anymore.
Our modern society changes thatto good deed.
SPEAKER_13 (42:37):
Yeah, but because we're not giving a command.
We have been commanded by God.
That's right.
Okay, let's go to the last one.
And David, you already began towhen you said it, I about jumped
out of my skin.
Because you already said thatwhen we are ungrateful, it
begins to warp us.
(42:57):
You want to expand on that andthen we'll react.
SPEAKER_09 (43:01):
I think we've seen, we've all met people who um who
have been ungrateful in life andwho seem to go through life
ungrateful.
And I think I think somethinghas happened in their
development, or they've hadarrested development or
something along the way.
And from a Christian point ofview, that becomes very uh
(43:22):
different than than the kind ofpersons that we are designed and
and destined to be.
And so I think that if we don'tcultivate that sense of
gratitude, if we don't developthat through spiritual practices
of gratitude, then uh uh we endup we could possibly end up
(43:42):
being the kind of person thatjust expects, expects, expects,
uh takes for granted, takes forgranted, takes for granted.
And nobody, uh not even God,wants to be taken for granted, I
don't think.
I think it's just part of ofmaking us uh an unsavory, an un
uh unlikable uh kind of person.
SPEAKER_13 (44:05):
Yeah, I I was saying this to uh our dear rabbi.
I was saying it's the frontdoor, ungratefulness is the
front door to hell.
SPEAKER_11 (44:15):
Because you refuse to acknowledge and it's the
separation is the beginning.
Yes.
Okay, and it goes back to thebiblical verse I am me.
Knowledge of God is thebeginning of wisdom.
SPEAKER_13 (44:28):
That's great.
Rudy?
SPEAKER_11 (44:29):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_12 (44:34):
I mean, from a Christian perspective, it's it's
you're essentially continuallyrupturing the relationship of
love, if you will, with theCreator.
So when when we when we can'teven be thankful for the basic
(44:54):
things, I mean I don't knowabout you guys, but in the
morning, the second I open myeyes I get another day, right?
I get every every single breaththat you take yours.
It's not mine.
It belongs to you to God in avery real time.
(45:15):
So when we when we step awayfrom that gratefulness, we're
stepping away from from whatwhat what the rabbit would
think.
We are specifically commanded,right?
And so we fail in thisobligation and and it's grateful
to become very real things toGod.
(45:38):
And of course we can't harm God.
So what we end up doing is whatyou were talking about, Father
Mario, is paving paving the wayto heaven, some real path,
right?
That continual separation fromGod.
It really does start withungratefulness.
SPEAKER_13 (45:56):
Ungrateful and now to rabbi.
SPEAKER_11 (45:59):
And this picks up from something that Rudy said
about when you wake up.
In Jewish tradition, when youopen your eyes and you're awake,
before your feet have touchedthe ground out of bed, there's a
prayer that we recite that isthanking God.
For the moment you wake up,there's gratitude.
(46:22):
And the the text is I givethanks before you, living and
eternal ruler, for you havereturned my soul within me with
compassion.
Abundant is your faithless.
Quick, but it's acknowledgingGod as soon as you're truly
awake, but before you'veactually gotten out of bed,
before your feet have touchedthe ground.
There's acknowledgement of God.
SPEAKER_13 (46:43):
Notice that we have been talking about our
salvation.
Okay, what's the opposite ofsalvation?
SPEAKER_11 (46:49):
Condemnation.
SPEAKER_13 (46:50):
Condemnation.
So we're saying it is right andjust.
(47:18):
Yes.
SPEAKER_11 (47:19):
By their lack of gratefulness.
SPEAKER_13 (47:21):
That's right.
It's always interesting becauseone of the ways that I imagine
hell is uh this is just ananalogy, that when you die, uh
God will show you the you thatyou have become by your
decisions.
And he will say to you, and hewill say to you, do you wish for
me to finish to try to finishyour transformation, what you
(47:45):
failed to to do?
And if you say you're free, ifyou say yes, that begins that's
that's the Catholic teaching ofpurgatory.
SPEAKER_11 (47:53):
Don't say you're free.
SPEAKER_13 (47:54):
No, no, I'm sorry.
If if you say yes, that is thebeginning of your tra your what
we call purgatory.
But here's the point.
If you say, No, I I don't wantyou to change me in what to what
you want me to be, that's thebeginning of hell.
SPEAKER_11 (48:09):
Yeah, but who would say that?
SPEAKER_13 (48:10):
Well, because if you are so used to your own self
being who you want to be.
Like a lot of people we run intoevery day.
Then g you know get what you getto be for all eternity?
A spiritual Frankenstein.
What is a Frankenstein what isFrankenstein?
Frankenstein is a human beinghuman-built.
(48:31):
Human being a human-built humanbeing.
That's Frankenstein.
SPEAKER_11 (48:36):
Right.
SPEAKER_13 (48:37):
You get to be a human-built human being.
Not what God wanted you to be,but a human being human-built.
A human-built human being.
Now, last week, we've only hadfive minutes.
So I want to finish, just getabout five minutes to the last
part of the prayer.
It is right and just.
It is our duty and oursalvation.
(48:58):
The next two words, always andeverywhere to give you to give
you thanks, Almighty and everliving God.
Why always and everywhere is itpossible to be grateful always
and everywhere?
SPEAKER_11 (49:12):
Yes.
Because it's a conscientiouschoice to be grateful no matter
where you are, and not onlyphysically where you are, but
mentally, emotionally,spiritually.
What am I missing?
Mentally, emotionally,spiritually, and physically
where you are.
Okay.
So it it is it's a it's a choiceand a state of being to be
(49:34):
grateful.
So yes, I think it actually is.
Okay, David?
SPEAKER_09 (49:39):
Yeah.
Uh let me let me um let me I'mthinking about this.
I I think it's uh and I wentback to the idea of commandment
because it seems to me thatPaul, the apostle, is te teaches
that thanksgiving and praise toGod is is all always to be done.
But you you don't give thanks toGod for something that is bad.
(50:03):
I think we don't say, God thankyou, uh, you know, that I have
cancer.
Or God thank you.
I think what you we say is God,I I want to give you thanks even
though I I have cancer.
So we can give thanks to God,but we don't give thanks for to
uh we don't give thanks to Godfor bad things.
SPEAKER_11 (50:26):
Didn't Job do that?
SPEAKER_09 (50:29):
I I I don't know that he did.
I'd have to go back.
SPEAKER_11 (50:32):
I don't know that he I thought there was a line where
he says, Shall we not thank Godfor the Yeah.
SPEAKER_09 (50:37):
I I think there's a difference between giving thanks
to to God in the midst of everysituation, as opposed to giving
thanks to God for the situation.
SPEAKER_11 (50:48):
Right.
SPEAKER_09 (50:48):
And and I'd have to give that some thought.
Me too.
SPEAKER_11 (50:52):
Interesting.
SPEAKER_09 (50:53):
Yeah, I um yeah, that seems to me to to to be our
right, our duty, our etc.
As you were saying, that for itto be everywhere and at all
times.
Uh, because not all times aregreat times, and but we can
still find things in the midstof that to give thanks to God
(51:13):
for.
SPEAKER_13 (51:14):
Rudy, you're got about thirty or forty seconds.
SPEAKER_12 (51:18):
I I think it's it's an interesting thing because
it's difficult for us to thinkabout, but when we enact our
duty continually, we stepfurther into that grape, and
heaven in some real sense is aperfect manifestation of that
grape, continual duty inworship, in thanksgiving.
So existing outside of time andfaith, in perfect union, in
(51:43):
perfect gratitude.
I mean it's it's hard for us tothink about it in just for real
terms, but in a real real sense,it's the infinite presence of
God, an infinite grace that wethat we want, right or that we
should strive to achieve.
SPEAKER_13 (52:01):
Because yeah.
Now, David, doesn't Paul talkabout always giving thanks to
God at all times and all places.
SPEAKER_09 (52:11):
I think he does, but I don't think I think the
proviso is not that you you givethanks to God for the blessings
that God has, but notnecessarily for the persecutions
or for yeah, I I I can't I thinkthere's a distinction between
(52:33):
but but that means we we takethe time to look for those
moments of grace in the midst ofof real hard times.
And those those moments do come.
Those moments do come.
And that may be what Job was onabout, I think.
I'd have to go back and rethinkthat.
SPEAKER_13 (52:54):
Okay, any final words from any of you?
Any wisdom, final wisdom?
SPEAKER_09 (52:59):
Thanksgiving, November 27th or whatever it is,
28th.
SPEAKER_13 (53:04):
Yeah, it is.
Yes, good timing.
But do we actually give thanksor do we just eat turkey?
SPEAKER_11 (53:10):
I think most people, because of the ritual nature of
Thanksgiving, sitting around andgive thanks.
And and the TV shows abouteverybody go around the room and
say what you're thankful for.
Yeah.
I think there's an element ofit.
There's at least an attempt.
I'd like to believe there is.
SPEAKER_13 (53:24):
Yeah, at least an attempt.
Okay.
Thank you very much, guys.
It's been an interesting topicto deal with.
SPEAKER_11 (53:31):
And next week, who is I was supposed to be, but I
cannot be on next week.
SPEAKER_13 (53:35):
Okay.
Uh David, are you going to beable to be here?
I think so.
SPEAKER_09 (53:39):
So let me let me uh let me take it up.
SPEAKER_13 (53:41):
Okay.
Great.
This is KNTH 1070.
We thank you for listening tous.
Please, during this week, keepus in your prayers because you
are going to be in ours.
SPEAKER_03 (53:52):
Find us at am 1070 theanswer.com.
Download our apps.
Stream us 247.
Kn T H and K277 D E F M.
Houston.
There's something happening here, but what it is
ain't exactly clear.
There's a man with a gun overthere.
Tellin me I got to beware.
I think it's time we stop.
Children, what's that sound?
(00:23):
Everybody look what's goingdown.
But nobody's right ifeverybody's wrong, young people
(00:46):
speak in their minds.
I get so much resistance frombehind every time we stop.
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look what's goingdown.
SPEAKER_11 (01:00):
Welcome to a show of faith where a professor, priest,
millennial, and rabbi discusstheology, philosophy, morality,
and ethics, and anything else wefeel like discussing.
If you have any response to ourtopics or any comments regarding
what we say, we'd love to hearfrom you.
Email us at a show of faith1070at gmail.com, a show of
(01:20):
faith1070 at gmail.com.
You can hear our shows again andagain by listening pretty much
anywhere podcasts are heard.
Our priest is Father MarioArroyo, retired pastor of St.
Cyril of Alexandria and then10,000 Block of Westheimer.
Hello.
Our professor is David Capes,Protestant Minister and Director
of Academic Programming for theLanier Theological Library.
SPEAKER_09 (01:41):
Here at Accounted For.
SPEAKER_11 (01:43):
Rudy Kong is our millennial systems engineer and
has his master's degree intheology from the University of
St.
Thomas.
SPEAKER_12 (01:50):
Howdy, howdy.
SPEAKER_11 (01:52):
I am Stuart Federal, retired rabbi of Congregation
Sha'ar Hashaloon, the Clear Lakearea of Houston, Texas.
Miranda is our board operator,and she makes us sound
fantastic.
So welcome to a show of faith.
SPEAKER_09 (02:06):
I just want to make sure that the blasphemy laws are
still in place.
SPEAKER_13 (02:23):
Is Rudy on the phone?
Rudy?
unknown (02:25):
I am.
SPEAKER_11 (02:26):
Ah, Rudy Kung, our millennial systems engineer and
master's degree in theology fromthe University of St.
Thomas.
SPEAKER_12 (02:33):
Howdy, howdy.
SPEAKER_11 (02:34):
Howdy, howdy.
SPEAKER_13 (02:35):
Rudy, how'd you like the joke?
SPEAKER_12 (02:39):
I mean, it's good, not your best word.
SPEAKER_13 (02:44):
Okay.
Today I am the show director.
And let me introduce the topicbecause there's no article to
read.
I will be providing the fodder.
SPEAKER_11 (03:00):
The fodder?
SPEAKER_13 (03:01):
The fodder.
SPEAKER_11 (03:02):
Because you're the fodder.
SPEAKER_13 (03:03):
I am the fodder.
SPEAKER_11 (03:03):
The fodder who's the federal federal federal federal
five.
SPEAKER_13 (03:04):
I am providing the fodder who's the fodder.
SPEAKER_11 (03:07):
Right.
SPEAKER_13 (03:07):
Okay.
Now, there's going to be twoparts.
But the first part, I would liketo quote to you part of a the
prayer that we say at thebeginning of the Eucharist.
When you see the Eucharist hastwo parts.
It has the liturgy of the Word,the Bible readings and the
homily.
And then the second part, theliturgy of the Eucharist, when
(03:30):
the actual Lord's Supper iscelebrated.
Now, don't worry, this will behad a Well I have a lot of
questions about that, but goahead.
Okay.
SPEAKER_11 (03:38):
Not germane to tonight.
SPEAKER_13 (03:39):
Okay.
There's a sentence that occurs.
See, in the Catholic Church, thepriest has a choice on a regular
Sunday basis of regularly fourdifferent what are called
Eucharistic prayers.
They're prayers that are alreadywritten down before we get to
the point of on the night he wasbetrayed, Jesus took the okay.
(04:03):
And the there's a sentence thathas always fascinated me.
And the sentence is is this itis right and just it is our duty
and our salvation always andeverywhere to give you thanks,
Almighty and ever living God.
SPEAKER_11 (04:22):
That's reflected in Scripture.
SPEAKER_13 (04:24):
Okay.
It is right and just.
It is our duty and oursalvation.
I would like the reaction forthe first 15, 20 minutes of the
show, to those four words.
Why have those words, what dothose four words say to you
(04:45):
about why we should be gratefulthanking God?
So, first of all, for example,why is it right?
Why do we have to say it'sright?
Why why would we say that if wedidn't, if we said it's right,
it must mean that it's wrong notto do it.
So why do we thank why do we sayit is right and it would be
(05:10):
wrong not to thank God?
SPEAKER_11 (05:13):
I kind of also think that there's another nuance to
the word right.
SPEAKER_13 (05:17):
Okay.
SPEAKER_11 (05:18):
And it has to do with what is just.
SPEAKER_13 (05:20):
Okay, but let's let's go straight first.
Why was it why would it be wrongnot to do it?
SPEAKER_11 (05:29):
Mario, if I came over to your house or parsonage,
whatever you call it, uh, and Igave you a wrapped present, what
would be your first response?
SPEAKER_13 (05:45):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_11 (05:46):
As I give it to you.
SPEAKER_13 (05:47):
Right.
SPEAKER_11 (05:48):
Okay.
SPEAKER_13 (05:49):
Or I want you to go ahead.
I could say you shouldn't have.
SPEAKER_11 (05:55):
Oh you you should have.
Okay.
Once I've given it to you andyou take it into the house and
you unwrap it and you lookinside the box and you see that
it's something you really,really like, wouldn't you also
again say thank you?
Yes.
Here's the question.
But but here's my question then.
(06:16):
Yes.
Which of the two thank yous,when I hand it to you and you
don't know what's in it, and thesecond thank you when you've
already opened the box and youknow it's in it, which is the
more uh no the more d truthful,for lack of a better term.
Second one.
Second one.
When when we know, acknowledge,understand, feel the gifts from
(06:40):
God, our natural instinct shouldbe to say thank you.
If we don't, no differently thanif I gave you a present, no
differently if you opened it upand saw that was something you
needed and didn't say thank you,that would be something we would
consider wrong.
SPEAKER_13 (06:56):
I would agree with you, but here's what I the
reason I brought it up, and Ibrought it up in a in a couple
of homilies already.
I really f believe, and um judgeactually, that we moderns,
quote, in postmodern, whateverit is, that we're like children,
(07:17):
children maybe say asix-year-old, seven-year-old
child, who says to his parents,Mom, I'm leaving home.
I don't want to live hereanymore.
He packs his suitcase and heleaves.
And he doesn't take, he doesn'tstudy it, he doesn't ask the
questions, where am I gonnalive?
(07:39):
Who's gonna give me food?
Right, who's gonna do anything?
The other part, the othercomparison is the teenager.
You see these teenagers playingaround and uh, you know,
frolicking and everything andhaving a great time, and they
have no sense.
They think everything is just agiven.
They're given.
SPEAKER_11 (07:59):
Entitlement.
SPEAKER_13 (08:00):
Entitlement.
Okay.
I have a sense So do a lot ofadults.
Yeah.
Well, I have a lot of sense thatmodern people think that the
world that we live in is normal.
If you ask many teenagers or m alot of modern people, are you
really thankful to God for life,for everything that you have?
(08:24):
I think most people would say,well, kinda, but they don't
really mean it, because theynever really think about it.
To the world, to them, the worldas it is and our society as it
is is normal is a given.
So the whole issue com comes outto be we are not grateful as a
(08:44):
society.
We are not.
SPEAKER_11 (08:46):
Nope.
SPEAKER_13 (08:47):
So something is wrong.
Something is wrong because weare not grateful.
David Rudy comments.
SPEAKER_09 (09:01):
Oh gosh, uh really thought that's a very thoughtful
way of thinking about it.
Um I think we we want to bethankful in a way.
Um we we understand that there'sbenefits to being thankful is
right to be thankful going backto the right.
(09:22):
But I don't think we think Idon't think we think much about
these things.
We we we take a breath of airand we expect that it should be
there.
We have a fine meal, we expectit to be there.
Um we have a a roof over ourheads, we expect it to be there.
So I don't think we think a lotabout the things that you're
(09:44):
that you're we're thinking abouthere that we're talking about
here.
We just expect it to be as itis.
SPEAKER_13 (09:49):
Yeah, and I want to get something straight.
We're not discussing here tocome up with any kind of uh, you
know, discovery.
All I want to do is for thosewho are listening to us, I want
to bring back our attention togratitude.
Because I don't think we as acountry and we as a culture and
(10:09):
we as individuals and we asindividuals are really grateful.
SPEAKER_11 (10:13):
I would agree.
SPEAKER_13 (10:14):
And so we're not I I don't intend to make any
controversial points.
The whole point is for us tokind of look at the need to
reaffirm our gratefulness.
SPEAKER_11 (10:27):
Isn't that also what the psalmist was talking about
when he wrote that knowledge ofGod is the beginning of wisdom?
Can you really be wise?
Can you really Can you be wiseif you don't begin with the
acknowledgement of God andexpress gratefulness?
(10:47):
No, you can't.
SPEAKER_13 (10:48):
You can't re because we you we think that the reality
that we live in is a given.
It is a given.
SPEAKER_11 (10:57):
Right.
SPEAKER_13 (10:57):
And so that makes us entitled.
We're kind of like I love thethe the the comparison that um
uh the I I'm forgetting theguy's name, the guy who wrote um
the air we breathe.
And uh he he he wrote we arelike goldfish in in an aquarium.
(11:18):
We take for granted the water.
SPEAKER_11 (11:21):
If we even know it's there.
SPEAKER_13 (11:23):
We yeah, but we take it for granted, we take for
granted that everybody in theworld has water.
Everybody is like this, and wedon't realize the amount of work
that it takes to maintain theaquarium.
Rudy.
SPEAKER_12 (11:40):
I think you're quite following reality.
(12:53):
That's correct.
SPEAKER_13 (13:03):
And you forget and we forget the fact that we are
contingent beings, meaning wedon't have to exist.
We don't have to exist.
Now let's go to the second one.
It is right and just meaningthat being ungrateful is an
injustice.
Why would you say that that'simportant?
SPEAKER_11 (13:25):
Wait, wait, wait.
SPEAKER_13 (13:25):
That not being grateful is injustice.
SPEAKER_11 (13:31):
It goes back to my first analogy, in my opinion,
that's when we're given a giftthe there are a lot of synonyms.
Justice, fair, right, fitting,appropriate is to say thank you.
And if you've ever givensomebody something, a gift, and
(13:53):
they don't, you feel slighted,you feel insulted, you feel
hurt.
But that's the injustice.
So what is an injustice?
SPEAKER_13 (14:00):
What is it what is justice?
SPEAKER_11 (14:02):
What's right and fair and what do you I'm not
sure what you mean?
SPEAKER_13 (14:06):
In other words, what why would you say what would you
say something is just?
But think about that, because Iknow it takes your brain a
little bit.
SPEAKER_11 (14:13):
And it's only right and fair and just that we have
corruption.
SPEAKER_13 (14:15):
That's right because yes.
We will be right back.
SPEAKER_03 (14:22):
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Johnny Angel, how I want him.
He's got something that I can'tresist.
But he doesn't even know that Ishimming.
(17:44):
I dream of him and me and howit's gonna be of a fellow's
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But I just sit and wait.
I'd rather concentrate on John.
(18:07):
And together we will see howlovely heaven will be.
SPEAKER_13 (18:16):
And together we will see Welcome back to the show of
Well, yeah.
Okay, let's go on to the nextword.
It is right, and the next wordis just.
SPEAKER_11 (18:29):
Yes.
So when I made my comment aboutright is justice, I that's
erroneous.
SPEAKER_13 (18:34):
No, no, I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_11 (18:34):
No, because what it's right is doing the right
thing.
Justice is actually somethingelse.
But if the word's already there,then the word's already there.
SPEAKER_13 (18:42):
The interesting part is that the Vatican, when they
put out this Eucharistic prayer,all the Eucharistic prayers that
are said every single Sunday atMass, every single Sunday, all
of them have it is right andjust.
It is our duty and oursalvation, always and
everywhere, to give you AlmightyGod thanks.
(19:04):
Now notice the amount ofemphasis they're putting on
there.
SPEAKER_11 (19:09):
Right.
SPEAKER_13 (19:10):
And and I want to discuss the whole idea of why
would anyone feel the need topound that in using those words
and not only Well, the reasonthey have to pound it in is
because we take things so muchfor granted.
I agree with you.
SPEAKER_11 (19:26):
Yes.
SPEAKER_13 (19:27):
But why now let's let's go in a different order
now.
Rudy, you were gonna get firstcrack at it.
Why is it just?
It is right and just.
Would then that imply that notgiving thanks to God is an
injustice.
SPEAKER_12 (19:44):
You know, I think if if you look at the classical
arithmetic meaning of justice,it means surrender to each what
is to do.
Surrender to each what is to do.
What is when you think about it?
(20:50):
It's not necessarily about youknow what we think of the world,
but it's more about giving thecreator a proper acknowledgement
because he gives you thatacknowledgement being the
creator.
SPEAKER_13 (21:06):
Okay.
SPEAKER_09 (21:16):
Yeah, I I I think I think part of it, I mean, I
think I'll think all these areoverlapping ideas, overlapping
metaphors.
I don't think anyone standsalone.
SPEAKER_13 (21:24):
No, really.
SPEAKER_09 (21:46):
Which is also a word that is sometimes translated
grace.
But eukari means to give thanks.
So it is a recognition, andgoing back to what uh Rudy said,
it is a recognition of the gift.
And the recognition of a gift, arecognition of a gift is a just
thing.
(22:07):
It is unjust not to recognize agift.
It is unjust.
SPEAKER_13 (22:12):
You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_09 (22:12):
So I think I think yeah.
SPEAKER_13 (22:14):
Go ahead.
SPEAKER_09 (22:15):
No, I I just think it's unjust when you receive a
gift to and and and not right torecognize the gift and to say
thank you for it.
And if we understand itproperly, as as Christian,
Christianity looks atThanksgiving as a practice, not
necessarily as an attitude thatyou have.
But it's a practice, it's apractice that you cultivate.
(22:38):
So you it you you we don'talways feel thanks thanksgiving,
you know.
Um, but it's not so much a uhfeeling as it is a command.
SPEAKER_13 (22:49):
You know, that's going to be it's going to be
very, very apropos.
I want to follow that up when wecome back, because the next
word, it is right and just it isour duty.
Notice, we're gonna be talkingabout our duty.
So uh Rabbi?
SPEAKER_11 (23:07):
What?
SPEAKER_13 (23:08):
Well, uh you're just.
Yeah, in about one minute.
SPEAKER_11 (23:13):
All right.
So I think of the word just sois right and just.
Right.
Okay.
And to me, there's arelationship between the word
justice and the word judgment.
In other words, there is aprocess that we have to go
(23:34):
through that takes a look atwhat we have, what we know, uh
all the things that we'retalking about for which we need
to be grateful and make ajudgment of it.
So I think that when it saysit's right and just, that there
has to be not just the knowledgethat it's the right thing to do,
(23:57):
a good thing to do, but alsothere's a judgment of the
situation you're in.
And I think that it it requiresacknowledgement of it.
SPEAKER_13 (24:08):
You know, it's interesting, and we'll get into
this.
I want to get into this when wecome back to the next word duty.
unknown (24:13):
Right.
SPEAKER_13 (24:13):
But here's the interesting part.
Do you realize that in theCatholic Church, a willful
decision not to go to Mass isconsidered a mortal sin?
SPEAKER_11 (24:24):
The willful decision not to go to Mass.
SPEAKER_13 (24:26):
Is considered a mortal sin.
So we'll come come back becausethat's the Catholic Church
saying something veryinteresting.
Okay.
Some people we we talk aboutgoing to church these days, and
going to church these days, theysay, Oh, yeah, did you go to
church?
Yeah, no, no.
But in the Catholic Church, thewillful understanding of not
going to church, I'm not goingto do it, is a mortal sin.
SPEAKER_11 (24:47):
It's not just a sin, but a mortal sin.
Yes, correct.
SPEAKER_13 (24:49):
This is 1070 KNTH, and we'll be right back.
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SPEAKER_13 (27:33):
In the Catholic Church, the definition of a
mortal sin is three things.
One, it has to be somethingserious.
Two, it has to it has to beserious matter.
Second, sufficient reflection.
Third, full consent of the will.
SPEAKER_11 (27:51):
Sufficient deflection.
SPEAKER_13 (27:53):
Reflection.
SPEAKER_11 (27:53):
Sufficient reflection.
SPEAKER_13 (27:55):
Full consent of the will.
unknown (27:57):
Okay?
SPEAKER_11 (27:58):
So in order to be held culpable for it.
SPEAKER_13 (28:01):
Yes, to be cultivated.
So if you under I think mostpeople are not culpable of
mortal sin when they don't go tochurch.
But if they reflected, which iswhat the Catholic Church is
trying to say, if you understandthat is right and just, it is
our duty and our salvation.
Notice our salvation there.
SPEAKER_11 (28:21):
It's telling when we get to it.
SPEAKER_13 (28:23):
When we get to it, but notice what you're saying,
you're you're actually buildingthe case for a serious
separation from God when youfail to give thanks.
But let's go to the third one.
It is right and just it is ourduty.
David, you go first this time,and then to you.
SPEAKER_09 (28:45):
David?
Okay, let me think.
Let me yeah, let me think let methink through this.
I I think I think duty, duty.
Um I think I do think that thereis an obligation.
We we're commanded to thank.
To give thanks.
Uh a part of our Christian uhresponsibility, a part of what
we are to do as Christians, isto give thanks.
(29:07):
And so I I see it as a responseto God's command.
And when we uh the d the do theduty part, the the obligation,
responsibility means that we arefollowing in the commands and
walking according to theteachings of Jesus.
(29:28):
So I I would I would see it inthat the obligation, uh duty, uh
responsibility, those kinds ofthings categorize for me the
same sort of a notion.
SPEAKER_13 (29:39):
Okay, Dave.
I mean uh Rabbi?
SPEAKER_11 (29:42):
I see, we were talking in in the uh break here
in the studio, and uh I I thinkthat there is a relationship
with the word duty with the worddue.
It's their due, it's God's due.
And picking up on what Davidsaid, there's an obligation.
That we are obligated toacknowledge the gifts of God.
SPEAKER_13 (30:05):
Why?
Why are we obligated?
SPEAKER_11 (30:09):
What harm does it cause us?
I don't think it's the issue ofharm.
I think it's the issue ofbenefit.
I think that when a personacknowledges and recognizes that
they have a gift, they'vereceived a gift, then the
acknowledgement is a benefit tothe person who acknowledges it.
SPEAKER_13 (30:32):
Here's what the Catholic Church is saying to you
that if you consciously rejectgiving thanks, that you are
committing a sin that hasimperiled your soul.
SPEAKER_11 (30:43):
And you've committed that sin against God, who is the
one whose due as in duty toreceive it.
It'll make you worse.
SPEAKER_13 (30:55):
It will make you worse.
SPEAKER_11 (30:56):
Right.
So but I I think that there is,like David was saying, a
responsibility that we are givento acknowledge what we've what
we've been given.
Okay.
SPEAKER_09 (31:07):
But what we were saying in the I would go even
further to say that we are weare definitely harmed by not
getting things.
Right.
We are we are misshapen, we aremalformed when we are instead of
being formed correctly, we arebeing malformed by that.
And I think we see that aroundus when you have so many people
(31:27):
who are just taking for granteduh the good gifts that they
receive, and and whatevergenuflection they give towards
toward Thanksgiving is very muchsurface and not uh soulish.
SPEAKER_13 (31:40):
It's pro forma.
SPEAKER_11 (31:42):
See, one of the things that we were talking
about in the break also is theaughts.
We don't have aughts.
We don't have aughts.
There's oblig people talk abouttheir rights, their privileges,
but they don't talk about theirobligations and their
responsibilities.
You go to a we've said thisbefore on the air, but you go to
a hospital and the big side ofthe elevator, patient rights.
(32:04):
But there's no sign that I'veever seen that says patient
obligations.
SPEAKER_13 (32:07):
I have a friend of mine who's constantly saying we
need, you know, we have theStatue of Liberty on the East
Coast.
We need another statue on the onthe on the Pacific Coast Pacific
Coast that's a statue ofresponsibility.
SPEAKER_11 (32:22):
Yeah, what would that look like?
SPEAKER_13 (32:23):
I don't know, but it's interesting.
But it's true.
We are true.
We're constantly our right, ourright, our right.
SPEAKER_11 (32:29):
It's my right, it's my privilege, this is what I
have, I'm entitled.
Yeah.
But where's the obligations thatcome with that?
You know, the the Spider-Mansaying power has
responsibilities.
Yeah.
Well, we are given power by God,we're given power by the gifts.
Yeah.
Where the r there cut therecomes with that a
responsibility.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_13 (32:47):
Rudy?
SPEAKER_12 (32:50):
I I think it's a it's sort of a modern thing to
think that duty cancels anauthentic demonstration of love.
And I was thinking of this thingthat you say all the time, uh,
Falvar about marriage, right?
It's the decision to uniteyourself with another regardless
of how I feel.
SPEAKER_13 (33:10):
Yeah, the decision to unite yourself with God, to
care about the good of anotherno matter how you feel.
SPEAKER_12 (33:17):
No matter how I feel.
And and I think duty transcendsbeing, right?
And it's not about it's notabout how you know how do I feel
today, or I don't feel likereally loving my wife today.
I don't really feel like takingcare of or going to work or
providing or anything aboutthat.
It's it's about it's about atranscendent calling that we
(33:42):
have.
I mean, right?
(34:04):
Honoring and thanksgiving.
Uh an act of injustice and andwhat he calls a virtue, right?
And and when we render to Godthat that worship and service
(34:25):
that is due to him, we areparticipating in something that
we are called to.
SPEAKER_13 (34:31):
You know, Rudy, uh here's what I want to say,
here's another an angle at it.
Most people say, I don't go tochurch because I don't get
anything out of it.
Now, listen to that.
Now, here's we're talking aboutit is right and just right,
(34:52):
obligations on the part of theperson.
But what we say is I don't getanything.
SPEAKER_11 (34:58):
The focus is on my right.
SPEAKER_13 (35:02):
David?
SPEAKER_12 (35:05):
Yeah.
Yeah, I I I mean, I understandwhy people say that, and it's
because they're so disconnectedwith an authentic understanding
of what happens at math.
I mean, I go there for for, ofcourse, the community and
sharing with people, but themain thing is to receive that
spiritual nourishment.
(35:26):
And if I go there, it's an actof beauty.
We're gonna do something that Idon't want to go to math.
I don't feel like it, maybe I'mtired or whatever, whatever.
But I I I get my buttons and Igo there, and every single time
I come out of math, I'm thankfulI went.
(35:50):
I'm thankful I went.
I come out and I don't eventhink about feelings, but I feel
better.
It's a strange thing, but I alsowould say that it comes with it
comes with that with thatbeauty, right?
It allows God's grace to workwithin you, and that's sort of
the unspoken or unseen I wouldcall it miracle that happens
(36:14):
every Sunday, right?
SPEAKER_13 (36:22):
David David.
SPEAKER_09 (36:29):
Yeah, yeah, sorry, sorry about that.
Sorry about that.
I I had put because I wascoughing a moment ago.
I put it on mute.
Um I was talking a minute agoabout the idea that we are
misshaping, mis malformedpeople.
And I think we have a malformedsociety, and and a part of the
evidence of that is that thatstatement is I I don't go to
(36:52):
church because I don't getanything out of it, as if that
is the true measure ofeverything that we do.
Uh it shouldn't be the truemeasure.
There are some things that we doregardless of what we get out of
anything, because it is ourright, it is our duty, it is our
obligation, in a sense, to dothat.
But but Rudy's exactly right.
(37:13):
Even when you pull yourself upout of bed, go when you don't
feel like it, uh somethingusually happens that is uh
spiritual, that is beneficial,that is uh unexpected, that is
uplifting.
And um so if you say, Well, I'vegotta go get something out of it
every time, and it's gotta befor me, for me, for me, for me,
(37:37):
uh that just shows how misshapenwe are as people, that it's all
about me.
You know, I I see it's gotta beabout me.
SPEAKER_13 (37:45):
I have there's a uh uh something I read, a story I
read about a young man who'sgetting married.
A young man who's gettingmarried, and uh he's having
doubts, and he goes to have atalk with his dad, and he says,
excuse me, he says to his dad,you know, dad, I I just don't
know if this marriage is for me.
(38:07):
And his dad looks at him and hesays, It's not.
It's not for you, it's for yourwife.
You are there to help her get toheaven.
You it's not about you.
It's about loving her.
And loving her is not about you,it's about caring for her first.
(38:28):
And I've always, you know, comefound that true extremely
interesting.
Okay, let's go.
We know we're gonna go to abreak, and last boy, we're gonna
get into this one.
SPEAKER_11 (38:40):
Well, I there I want to say something go ahead.
Go ahead about duty when we comeback.
SPEAKER_13 (38:44):
Yeah, okay.
This is KNTH 1070, and we'll beright back.
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SPEAKER_13 (41:21):
Okay, we're coming, we're coming back.
Right.
SPEAKER_11 (41:25):
Just real quick, because what we need to move on
to the salvation part.
But along with the duty, that itand it was again something that
that David mentioned, and thatis the aughts and the
obligations and and the Biblespeaks in terms of commandments.
Not good deeds, not because it'sa nice thing to do, but we are
(41:47):
commanded to do.
And these are gifts by God.
As a matter of fact, theformula, you were talking about
the formula of this prayer inthe Mass.
The formula we don't which is acontrast, we've talked about it
before.
That's not our point, not mypoint.
But we we don't bless things, webless God for things in Judaism.
(42:12):
So the formula is praised ouryou, oh God, who has commanded
us to do whatever it is thatwe're that we're reciting the
blessing for.
Okay.
In other words, we're saying,thank you, God, for giving this
commandment because ultimatelythe commandment makes me better
off.
SPEAKER_13 (42:28):
It's interesting that we don't even think of the
word commandment.
SPEAKER_11 (42:33):
No, not anymore.
Our modern society changes thatto good deed.
SPEAKER_13 (42:37):
Yeah, but because we're not giving a command.
We have been commanded by God.
That's right.
Okay, let's go to the last one.
And David, you already began towhen you said it, I about jumped
out of my skin.
Because you already said thatwhen we are ungrateful, it
begins to warp us.
(42:57):
You want to expand on that andthen we'll react.
SPEAKER_09 (43:01):
I think we've seen, we've all met people who um who
have been ungrateful in life andwho seem to go through life
ungrateful.
And I think I think somethinghas happened in their
development, or they've hadarrested development or
something along the way.
And from a Christian point ofview, that becomes very uh
(43:22):
different than than the kind ofpersons that we are designed and
and destined to be.
And so I think that if we don'tcultivate that sense of
gratitude, if we don't developthat through spiritual practices
of gratitude, then uh uh we endup we could possibly end up
(43:42):
being the kind of person thatjust expects, expects, expects,
uh takes for granted, takes forgranted, takes for granted.
And nobody, uh not even God,wants to be taken for granted, I
don't think.
I think it's just part of ofmaking us uh an unsavory, an un
uh unlikable uh kind of person.
SPEAKER_13 (44:05):
Yeah, I I was saying this to uh our dear rabbi.
I was saying it's the frontdoor, ungratefulness is the
front door to hell.
SPEAKER_11 (44:15):
Because you refuse to acknowledge and it's the
separation is the beginning.
Yes.
Okay, and it goes back to thebiblical verse I am me.
Knowledge of God is thebeginning of wisdom.
SPEAKER_13 (44:28):
That's great.
Rudy?
SPEAKER_11 (44:29):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_12 (44:34):
I mean, from a Christian perspective, it's it's
you're essentially continuallyrupturing the relationship of
love, if you will, with theCreator.
So when when we when we can'teven be thankful for the basic
(44:54):
things, I mean I don't knowabout you guys, but in the
morning, the second I open myeyes I get another day, right?
I get every every single breaththat you take yours.
It's not mine.
It belongs to you to God in avery real time.
(45:15):
So when we when we step awayfrom that gratefulness, we're
stepping away from from whatwhat what the rabbit would
think.
We are specifically commanded,right?
And so we fail in thisobligation and and it's grateful
to become very real things toGod.
(45:38):
And of course we can't harm God.
So what we end up doing is whatyou were talking about, Father
Mario, is paving paving the wayto heaven, some real path,
right?
That continual separation fromGod.
It really does start withungratefulness.
SPEAKER_13 (45:56):
Ungrateful and now to rabbi.
SPEAKER_11 (45:59):
And this picks up from something that Rudy said
about when you wake up.
In Jewish tradition, when youopen your eyes and you're awake,
before your feet have touchedthe ground out of bed, there's a
prayer that we recite that isthanking God.
For the moment you wake up,there's gratitude.
(46:22):
And the the text is I givethanks before you, living and
eternal ruler, for you havereturned my soul within me with
compassion.
Abundant is your faithless.
Quick, but it's acknowledgingGod as soon as you're truly
awake, but before you'veactually gotten out of bed,
before your feet have touchedthe ground.
There's acknowledgement of God.
SPEAKER_13 (46:43):
Notice that we have been talking about our
salvation.
Okay, what's the opposite ofsalvation?
SPEAKER_11 (46:49):
Condemnation.
SPEAKER_13 (46:50):
Condemnation.
So we're saying it is right andjust.
(47:18):
Yes.
SPEAKER_11 (47:19):
By their lack of gratefulness.
SPEAKER_13 (47:21):
That's right.
It's always interesting becauseone of the ways that I imagine
hell is uh this is just ananalogy, that when you die, uh
God will show you the you thatyou have become by your
decisions.
And he will say to you, and hewill say to you, do you wish for
me to finish to try to finishyour transformation, what you
(47:45):
failed to to do?
And if you say you're free, ifyou say yes, that begins that's
that's the Catholic teaching ofpurgatory.
SPEAKER_11 (47:53):
Don't say you're free.
SPEAKER_13 (47:54):
No, no, I'm sorry.
If if you say yes, that is thebeginning of your tra your what
we call purgatory.
But here's the point.
If you say, No, I I don't wantyou to change me in what to what
you want me to be, that's thebeginning of hell.
SPEAKER_11 (48:09):
Yeah, but who would say that?
SPEAKER_13 (48:10):
Well, because if you are so used to your own self
being who you want to be.
Like a lot of people we run intoevery day.
Then g you know get what you getto be for all eternity?
A spiritual Frankenstein.
What is a Frankenstein what isFrankenstein?
Frankenstein is a human beinghuman-built.
(48:31):
Human being a human-built humanbeing.
That's Frankenstein.
SPEAKER_11 (48:36):
Right.
SPEAKER_13 (48:37):
You get to be a human-built human being.
Not what God wanted you to be,but a human being human-built.
A human-built human being.
Now, last week, we've only hadfive minutes.
So I want to finish, just getabout five minutes to the last
part of the prayer.
It is right and just.
It is our duty and oursalvation.
(48:58):
The next two words, always andeverywhere to give you to give
you thanks, Almighty and everliving God.
Why always and everywhere is itpossible to be grateful always
and everywhere?
SPEAKER_11 (49:12):
Yes.
Because it's a conscientiouschoice to be grateful no matter
where you are, and not onlyphysically where you are, but
mentally, emotionally,spiritually.
What am I missing?
Mentally, emotionally,spiritually, and physically
where you are.
Okay.
So it it is it's a it's a choiceand a state of being to be
(49:34):
grateful.
So yes, I think it actually is.
Okay, David?
SPEAKER_09 (49:39):
Yeah.
Uh let me let me um let me I'mthinking about this.
I I think it's uh and I wentback to the idea of commandment
because it seems to me thatPaul, the apostle, is te teaches
that thanksgiving and praise toGod is is all always to be done.
But you you don't give thanks toGod for something that is bad.
(50:03):
I think we don't say, God thankyou, uh, you know, that I have
cancer.
Or God thank you.
I think what you we say is God,I I want to give you thanks even
though I I have cancer.
So we can give thanks to God,but we don't give thanks for to
uh we don't give thanks to Godfor bad things.
SPEAKER_11 (50:26):
Didn't Job do that?
SPEAKER_09 (50:29):
I I I don't know that he did.
I'd have to go back.
SPEAKER_11 (50:32):
I don't know that he I thought there was a line where
he says, Shall we not thank Godfor the Yeah.
SPEAKER_09 (50:37):
I I think there's a difference between giving thanks
to to God in the midst of everysituation, as opposed to giving
thanks to God for the situation.
SPEAKER_11 (50:48):
Right.
SPEAKER_09 (50:48):
And and I'd have to give that some thought.
Me too.
SPEAKER_11 (50:52):
Interesting.
SPEAKER_09 (50:53):
Yeah, I um yeah, that seems to me to to to be our
right, our duty, our etc.
As you were saying, that for itto be everywhere and at all
times.
Uh, because not all times aregreat times, and but we can
still find things in the midstof that to give thanks to God
(51:13):
for.
SPEAKER_13 (51:14):
Rudy, you're got about thirty or forty seconds.
SPEAKER_12 (51:18):
I I think it's it's an interesting thing because
it's difficult for us to thinkabout, but when we enact our
duty continually, we stepfurther into that grape, and
heaven in some real sense is aperfect manifestation of that
grape, continual duty inworship, in thanksgiving.
So existing outside of time andfaith, in perfect union, in
(51:43):
perfect gratitude.
I mean it's it's hard for us tothink about it in just for real
terms, but in a real real sense,it's the infinite presence of
God, an infinite grace that wethat we want, right or that we
should strive to achieve.
SPEAKER_13 (52:01):
Because yeah.
Now, David, doesn't Paul talkabout always giving thanks to
God at all times and all places.
SPEAKER_09 (52:11):
I think he does, but I don't think I think the
proviso is not that you you givethanks to God for the blessings
that God has, but notnecessarily for the persecutions
or for yeah, I I I can't I thinkthere's a distinction between
(52:33):
but but that means we we takethe time to look for those
moments of grace in the midst ofof real hard times.
And those those moments do come.
Those moments do come.
And that may be what Job was onabout, I think.
I'd have to go back and rethinkthat.
SPEAKER_13 (52:54):
Okay, any final words from any of you?
Any wisdom, final wisdom?
SPEAKER_09 (52:59):
Thanksgiving, November 27th or whatever it is,
28th.
SPEAKER_13 (53:04):
Yeah, it is.
Yes, good timing.
But do we actually give thanksor do we just eat turkey?
SPEAKER_11 (53:10):
I think most people, because of the ritual nature of
Thanksgiving, sitting around andgive thanks.
And and the TV shows abouteverybody go around the room and
say what you're thankful for.
Yeah.
I think there's an element ofit.
There's at least an attempt.
I'd like to believe there is.
SPEAKER_13 (53:24):
Yeah, at least an attempt.
Okay.
Thank you very much, guys.
It's been an interesting topicto deal with.
SPEAKER_11 (53:31):
And next week, who is I was supposed to be, but I
cannot be on next week.
SPEAKER_13 (53:35):
Okay.
Uh David, are you going to beable to be here?
I think so.
SPEAKER_09 (53:39):
So let me let me uh let me take it up.
SPEAKER_13 (53:41):
Okay.
Great.
This is KNTH 1070.
We thank you for listening tous.
Please, during this week, keepus in your prayers because you
are going to be in ours.
SPEAKER_03 (53:52):
Find us at am 1070 theanswer.com.
Download our apps.
Stream us 247.
Kn T H and K277 D E F M.
Houston.
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