September 28, 2025 • 30 mins
Mirroring Each Other’s Goodness, with Rev. Dr. Steven Koski. Series: Spacious Christianity, Spacious Hearts A Spacious Christianity, First Presbyterian Church of Bend, Oregon. Scripture: Psalm 46, Ephesians 3, Romans 8.
Feeling lost or struggling? Discover a message of hope that says you are loved, worthy, and good—just as you are. Join us this Sunday online or in-person for a powerful talk that might just change everything.
Join us each Sunday, 10AM at bendfp.org, or 11AM KTVZ-CW Channel 612/12 in Bend. Subscribe/Follow, and click the bell for alerts.
At First Presbyterian, you will meet people at many different places theologically and spiritually. And we love it that way. We want to be a place where our diversity brings us together and where conversation takes us all deeper in our understanding of God.
We call this kind of faith “Spacious Christianity.” We don’t ask anyone to sign creeds or statements of belief. The life of faith is about a way of being in the world and a faith that shows itself in love.
Thank you for your support of the mission of the First Presbyterian Church of Bend. Visit https://bendfp.org/giving/ for more information.
Keywords:
god, love, goodness, suicide, shame, life, spiritual path, earns, unbearable, pain, struggling, grasping, depression, worthy, darkness, darkest places, strangers, mirror, church, urgent mission, presbyterian, church, online worship, bend, oregon
Featuring:
Rev. Dr. Steven Koski, Rev. Sharon Edwards, Becca Ellis, Brave of Heart, Guests
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Whitney Higdon (00:00):
You foreign.
(00:00):
Welcome to worship at FirstPresbyterian. We, at First
(00:32):
Presbyterian practice a spaciousChristianity, which means, no
matter where you are in yourfaith journey, you belong and
there is space for you at thetable, there is space for your
doubts and questions. We believedoubts and questions are a gift
that invite us into deeperconversations and a more
authentic faith. We believediversity is a strength. Every
story is sacred and everybodymatters. We do our best to live
(00:56):
the spacious and radical love ofJesus so that all might have a
chance to flourish in thisworld. We are so glad to connect
with you in this way. We wouldalso love to worship with you in
person if you're ever in theneighborhood on Sunday mornings
at 830 or 10am and neverhesitate to reach out to us to
learn more about us or how wemight support You. I hope you
(01:18):
enjoy this worship service.
Welcome
Unknown (04:46):
Are you in a place where you can hear me? Because I
want you to really soak in whatI have to say. I come offering
transformation. I come full oflove. Love and I so deeply want
you to experience for yourselfwhat is so often only talked
about or imagined, my fullpresence to all things, my part
(05:15):
in your being and your part inmy being, I want to clean you
up, cut off what no longerserves you, and show you how
deeply and truly everything isenjoined to me, what's yours to
do is going to sound simplistic,but it's hard. Trust me, I know
(05:38):
people tend to get in their ownway when it comes to connection.
So what I am asking you is toopen to show me where it hurts,
because right there is where Icome in. I am meeting you, soar
to soar, wound to wound, tonourish you by the intimacy of
(06:01):
my own blood, and guide you intothe mystery and miracle of my
deep healing way. I want tobring you closer into me. I want
you to experience me and my lovefirst hand sourced soul. I want
(06:21):
you to know that you are soakedin me. You are within my love
everywhere, always, and my loveis never exhausted. So share the
spirit of it freely. Givewithout worry or desperation,
let love move among you, soul tosoul. My heart is set on you. I
(06:47):
am here, active and present. Iam yours, and you are mine. I
will never leave you. So trust,remain, rest assured, Be still
and know you are within my loveeverywhere, always source to
(07:09):
soul and my love is neverexhausted.
Steven (07:22):
One of my favorite poems is called the avowal by Denise
Levertov. It goes like this, asswimmers dare to lie face to the
sky and water bears them, ashawks rest upon Air and Air
sustains them, so would I learnto attain free fall and float
(07:44):
into creator spirit's deepembrace, knowing no effort earns
that all surrounding grace, ifwe only understood that last
phrase at a deep, deep level, noeffort earns that all
(08:05):
surrounding grace, no effortearns God's unbounded and
unconditional love. You know,the spiritual path is not about
working hard, scrambling, tryingto do the right things, believe
the right things to earn God'slove. The spiritual path is the
(08:27):
unfolding discovery that you areloved unconditionally, the
unfolding discovery that you arecreated in the image of God's
goodness. You know, thespiritual path is not learning
what might be necessary to toachieve being worthy and loved.
(08:51):
The spiritual path is unlearningeverything that has taught you
otherwise, discovering, noeffort earns that all
surrounding grace, Psalm 46says, Be still and know that I
am God. A more accuratetranslation of the Hebrew would
(09:16):
be, Cease striving. Stopgrasping. Stop stop trying so
hard. The invitation is to Ceasestriving, to stop struggling and
grasping to earn God's love, andsimply rest in the assurance
(09:38):
that the love you seek isalready yours. The psalmist
says, Be still and know now. TheHebrew, translated as know,
doesn't mean head knowledge, butheart knowledge, the deep inner
(09:58):
knowing. Of being held in God'slove. In other words, stop
working so hard to prove thatyou are worthy and loved, and
rest in the love closer to youthan your own breath. A prayer
(10:19):
in Ephesians three expressesthis beautifully. I pray that
you will be grounded in love andgrasp how long and high and wide
and deep is the love of Christ,and that you will know the love
that surpasses knowledge thatyou might be filled with all of
(10:44):
the fullness of God. There's awonderful old rabbinic saying
that tells us every human beingis preceded by a legion of
angels announcing make way forhere comes the very image of
God's goodness. Father, GregBoyle, who founded Homeboy
(11:08):
Industries, the largest gangrehabilitation center in the
world, based in Los Angeles,said this. He said, one doesn't
become good. We locate ourgoodness. The gang members I
devote my life to loving haven'tforgotten their original
(11:28):
goodness. They've never beenproperly introduced. They assume
a truth of being damaged,unredeemable, unworthy. They
aren't evil. They are juststrangers to their own goodness,
and our goal is not to give themdignity, but in a relationship
(11:53):
of unconditional Christ, likelove, be the mirror where they
can see their own goodness,resiliency, said, arrives
unexpectedly when we considerour own unshakable goodness.
(12:15):
Take a breath for a second. Nowanother one and another one, and
imagine that the first, last andbest thing that could be said
about you is that you are lovedand deserving of that love. You
(12:39):
are worthy and you are good.
Suicide rates are risingdramatically, especially among
young people. Nearly half ofAmerica reports experiencing
depression and anxiety. I can'tthink of a more urgent mission
(13:03):
for the church than reflectingunconditional Christ like love
and finding ways to be themirror where people might might
be able to see their owngoodness, because once you have
once you have a glimpse of yourown unshakable goodness, you
(13:27):
can't help but embody thatgoodness in the world. September
is mental health awareness andsuicide National Suicide
Prevention Month. Now, I've beenvery open about my my own
struggles with depressionthroughout my life. I attempted
(13:50):
to take my own life when I was19. I thank God every single day
that I wasn't successful at thetime, I couldn't see beyond the
horizon of my own despair. Icouldn't see my own my own
(14:15):
goodness. I couldn't see theworld of hope that was on the
other side of the mountain ofpain I was experiencing, I
couldn't see that I would begraced, really, with an
incredible life, a beautifulfamily, and the privilege of
having this platform to remindyou that you are a child of God,
(14:38):
that you are created in theimage of God's own goodness. I
couldn't see when I was 19 thatpain and suffering and darkness
do not have the last word Goddoes. God's word is always of a
(14:58):
light stronger than thedarkness, you know, a beauty
beyond the brokenness, and alove from which we can never be
separated. So honestly, this isthe sermon I wish I would have
(15:20):
heard when I was 19, and I praythis sermon might be a mirror to
help you see your own goodness.
It is so important to talkopenly and honestly about mental
health and to say the wordsuicide out loud in church. Now
(15:48):
I'm guessing there's a chanceyou've never heard a sermon
preached on suicide, because wedon't talk about it, but we need
to it impacts every single oneof us, directly or indirectly.
(16:08):
You know, talking about suicideis so important. How we talk
about suicide is equallyimportant. You know, people
often use the phrase committingsuicide. We commit crimes. To
say someone committed suicidecan actually be really hurtful.
(16:34):
It's better to say died bysuicide. We don't talk openly
about suicide or or how the painof life can feel at times so
unbearable because there's shameattached to it. You know, it was
acceptable. It was acceptablefor me to talk about the
(16:57):
ruptured disc in my back and howthat pain, believe me, was was
unbearable. The pain was so badI couldn't think straight, but I
wasn't embarrassed or ashamed.
It was actually okay to admit Iwas in so much pain that I that
I was struggling coping.
(17:20):
I was encouraged to go to thedoctor, encouraged to ask for
help. I could actually talk topeople about the kind of
treatment that I was receiving,and I received all kinds of
support. People regularly askedme, and still ask me today, are
you okay? How's your back?
Right, but somehow it's notokay, and there's shame attached
(17:44):
to letting people know that ourlife hurts, that our life hurts
so bad that it's unbearable, andwe can't think straight and we
just want relief. Admitting wecan't cope with emotional pain
(18:07):
is shrouded in shame that needsto change. Suicide is tragic on
every level, but it is notshameful. It's born of
(18:27):
hopelessness that that can'timagine any other way out. You
know, it's this, this thick,Pitch Black haze that that
prevents you from seeing anylight. You know, people say
suicide is a permanent solutionto a temporary problem, and
(18:51):
there is truth to that, butthose who find themselves in the
darkest places. They can't seethat from there, when someone
takes their own life, whensomeone dies by suicide, it's a
profound, unimaginable tragedyfor their loved ones. It's a
(19:14):
reason to mourn the loss of aprecious, beautiful life, we can
be really angry at thesenselessness of the loss, but
there should never be shame. Wedo our worst thinking when we're
(19:37):
walking in the shadows ofdespair, where it feels like
there's no hope, it's not goingto get any better, our thinking
can be so irrational. We'reconvinced taking our own lives
would actually be better forthose we love, we're not able to
see the. Ripples of pain andgrief that will go on for years.
(20:01):
My goal in talking aboutsuicide, especially in church,
is to remove the shame andstigma, to acknowledge there
aren't easy answers, but thereis help. If you're struggling,
(20:22):
you are not alone, and this willnot go on forever. You know, I
believe what we share most incommon is not our strength, but
our vulnerability, our tears.
(20:50):
Sometimes life hurts inunbearable ways for all of us to
help people experience their owngoodness. We need to remove any
shame. It's impossible to askfor help in an environment of
shame. Romans eight says thereis nothing. There is nothing in
(21:17):
all creation. There is nothingin life or death or death that
can ever separate us from thelove of God, revealed in Jesus
Christ, nothing. What that meansis that we are never, ever lost
(21:42):
to love, sometimes we are juststrangers to that love and
strangers to our own goodness.
Remember when you meet anotherperson, I think for all of us,
there are scars that don't show,there are hidden wounds that
(22:06):
aren't healed, there are silentscreams that aren't heard, and
battles that continue to befought In the soul, if you
yourself are suffering fromdepression or have a desire to
self harm or or have suicidalthoughts, please, Please talk to
(22:28):
someone. There is no shame. Youmatter. Your life matters. You
are not alone. For the rest ofus, be a soft place to land. For
(22:52):
those falling off the edge, ask,are you okay? And wait long
enough to actually listen forthe answer. Don't force people
into your light. Be willing tocrawl into the darkness and just
(23:15):
sit beside those who are hurtingwithout judgment, without the
need to advise, fix or save,just love. Some people, a lot of
people, are barely hanging on bya thread. Be that thread, be the
(23:36):
mirror that helps them see theirown goodness, be the love that
helps them experience God'sunconditional love. We are all
broken, and we are allbeautiful, worthy, loved. And
(23:58):
good. Take a breath and anotherone and another one. Remember no
effort earns that allsurrounding grace. Imagine the
(24:19):
first, the last, the best thingthat can be said about you is
that you are loved and deservingof that love. You are worthy and
you are good, amen. YouFriends, you are a child of God
(27:41):
created in the image of God'sown goodness. The first, last,
best thing that can be saidabout you is that you are loved
and deserving of that love. Youare worthy, you are good. May
you remember that no effortearns that all surrounding Grace
go in the peace of Christ, andMay the love you extend to
(28:07):
others bring peace to them.
Whitney Higdon (28:14):
Amen. Thank you so much for joining us, and we
hope you enjoyed this worshipservice. If you would like to
make a donation helping makethese broadcasts possible or
support the many ways. First,Presbyterian seeks to serve our
community, you can make afinancial gift online@bendfp.org
every week, we hear from someonethanking us for the gift of
(28:36):
these broadcasts and what adifference they make. Your
support makes that possible. Ourchurch is committed to reach
beyond our walls, bringing hopewhere there is despair and love
where it is needed the most.
Your generous support helps usto be generous in love. Go to
our website, bendfp.org, andclick on the link. Give online.
Your support is reallyappreciated and makes a
(28:59):
difference in people's lives.
Thanks again. I hope to See younext week.
You foreign.
(00:00):
Welcome to worship at FirstPresbyterian. We, at First
(00:32):
Presbyterian practice a spaciousChristianity, which means, no
matter where you are in yourfaith journey, you belong and
there is space for you at thetable, there is space for your
doubts and questions. We believedoubts and questions are a gift
that invite us into deeperconversations and a more
authentic faith. We believediversity is a strength. Every
story is sacred and everybodymatters. We do our best to live
(00:56):
the spacious and radical love ofJesus so that all might have a
chance to flourish in thisworld. We are so glad to connect
with you in this way. We wouldalso love to worship with you in
person if you're ever in theneighborhood on Sunday mornings
at 830 or 10am and neverhesitate to reach out to us to
learn more about us or how wemight support You. I hope you
(01:18):
enjoy this worship service.
Welcome
Unknown (04:46):
Are you in a place where you can hear me? Because I
want you to really soak in whatI have to say. I come offering
transformation. I come full oflove. Love and I so deeply want
you to experience for yourselfwhat is so often only talked
about or imagined, my fullpresence to all things, my part
(05:15):
in your being and your part inmy being, I want to clean you
up, cut off what no longerserves you, and show you how
deeply and truly everything isenjoined to me, what's yours to
do is going to sound simplistic,but it's hard. Trust me, I know
(05:38):
people tend to get in their ownway when it comes to connection.
So what I am asking you is toopen to show me where it hurts,
because right there is where Icome in. I am meeting you, soar
to soar, wound to wound, tonourish you by the intimacy of
(06:01):
my own blood, and guide you intothe mystery and miracle of my
deep healing way. I want tobring you closer into me. I want
you to experience me and my lovefirst hand sourced soul. I want
(06:21):
you to know that you are soakedin me. You are within my love
everywhere, always, and my loveis never exhausted. So share the
spirit of it freely. Givewithout worry or desperation,
let love move among you, soul tosoul. My heart is set on you. I
(06:47):
am here, active and present. Iam yours, and you are mine. I
will never leave you. So trust,remain, rest assured, Be still
and know you are within my loveeverywhere, always source to
(07:09):
soul and my love is neverexhausted.
Steven (07:22):
One of my favorite poems is called the avowal by Denise
Levertov. It goes like this, asswimmers dare to lie face to the
sky and water bears them, ashawks rest upon Air and Air
sustains them, so would I learnto attain free fall and float
(07:44):
into creator spirit's deepembrace, knowing no effort earns
that all surrounding grace, ifwe only understood that last
phrase at a deep, deep level, noeffort earns that all
(08:05):
surrounding grace, no effortearns God's unbounded and
unconditional love. You know,the spiritual path is not about
working hard, scrambling, tryingto do the right things, believe
the right things to earn God'slove. The spiritual path is the
(08:27):
unfolding discovery that you areloved unconditionally, the
unfolding discovery that you arecreated in the image of God's
goodness. You know, thespiritual path is not learning
what might be necessary to toachieve being worthy and loved.
(08:51):
The spiritual path is unlearningeverything that has taught you
otherwise, discovering, noeffort earns that all
surrounding grace, Psalm 46says, Be still and know that I
am God. A more accuratetranslation of the Hebrew would
(09:16):
be, Cease striving. Stopgrasping. Stop stop trying so
hard. The invitation is to Ceasestriving, to stop struggling and
grasping to earn God's love, andsimply rest in the assurance
(09:38):
that the love you seek isalready yours. The psalmist
says, Be still and know now. TheHebrew, translated as know,
doesn't mean head knowledge, butheart knowledge, the deep inner
(09:58):
knowing. Of being held in God'slove. In other words, stop
working so hard to prove thatyou are worthy and loved, and
rest in the love closer to youthan your own breath. A prayer
(10:19):
in Ephesians three expressesthis beautifully. I pray that
you will be grounded in love andgrasp how long and high and wide
and deep is the love of Christ,and that you will know the love
that surpasses knowledge thatyou might be filled with all of
(10:44):
the fullness of God. There's awonderful old rabbinic saying
that tells us every human beingis preceded by a legion of
angels announcing make way forhere comes the very image of
God's goodness. Father, GregBoyle, who founded Homeboy
(11:08):
Industries, the largest gangrehabilitation center in the
world, based in Los Angeles,said this. He said, one doesn't
become good. We locate ourgoodness. The gang members I
devote my life to loving haven'tforgotten their original
(11:28):
goodness. They've never beenproperly introduced. They assume
a truth of being damaged,unredeemable, unworthy. They
aren't evil. They are juststrangers to their own goodness,
and our goal is not to give themdignity, but in a relationship
(11:53):
of unconditional Christ, likelove, be the mirror where they
can see their own goodness,resiliency, said, arrives
unexpectedly when we considerour own unshakable goodness.
(12:15):
Take a breath for a second. Nowanother one and another one, and
imagine that the first, last andbest thing that could be said
about you is that you are lovedand deserving of that love. You
(12:39):
are worthy and you are good.
Suicide rates are risingdramatically, especially among
young people. Nearly half ofAmerica reports experiencing
depression and anxiety. I can'tthink of a more urgent mission
(13:03):
for the church than reflectingunconditional Christ like love
and finding ways to be themirror where people might might
be able to see their owngoodness, because once you have
once you have a glimpse of yourown unshakable goodness, you
(13:27):
can't help but embody thatgoodness in the world. September
is mental health awareness andsuicide National Suicide
Prevention Month. Now, I've beenvery open about my my own
struggles with depressionthroughout my life. I attempted
(13:50):
to take my own life when I was19. I thank God every single day
that I wasn't successful at thetime, I couldn't see beyond the
horizon of my own despair. Icouldn't see my own my own
(14:15):
goodness. I couldn't see theworld of hope that was on the
other side of the mountain ofpain I was experiencing, I
couldn't see that I would begraced, really, with an
incredible life, a beautifulfamily, and the privilege of
having this platform to remindyou that you are a child of God,
(14:38):
that you are created in theimage of God's own goodness. I
couldn't see when I was 19 thatpain and suffering and darkness
do not have the last word Goddoes. God's word is always of a
(14:58):
light stronger than thedarkness, you know, a beauty
beyond the brokenness, and alove from which we can never be
separated. So honestly, this isthe sermon I wish I would have
(15:20):
heard when I was 19, and I praythis sermon might be a mirror to
help you see your own goodness.
It is so important to talkopenly and honestly about mental
health and to say the wordsuicide out loud in church. Now
(15:48):
I'm guessing there's a chanceyou've never heard a sermon
preached on suicide, because wedon't talk about it, but we need
to it impacts every single oneof us, directly or indirectly.
(16:08):
You know, talking about suicideis so important. How we talk
about suicide is equallyimportant. You know, people
often use the phrase committingsuicide. We commit crimes. To
say someone committed suicidecan actually be really hurtful.
(16:34):
It's better to say died bysuicide. We don't talk openly
about suicide or or how the painof life can feel at times so
unbearable because there's shameattached to it. You know, it was
acceptable. It was acceptablefor me to talk about the
(16:57):
ruptured disc in my back and howthat pain, believe me, was was
unbearable. The pain was so badI couldn't think straight, but I
wasn't embarrassed or ashamed.
It was actually okay to admit Iwas in so much pain that I that
I was struggling coping.
(17:20):
I was encouraged to go to thedoctor, encouraged to ask for
help. I could actually talk topeople about the kind of
treatment that I was receiving,and I received all kinds of
support. People regularly askedme, and still ask me today, are
you okay? How's your back?
Right, but somehow it's notokay, and there's shame attached
(17:44):
to letting people know that ourlife hurts, that our life hurts
so bad that it's unbearable, andwe can't think straight and we
just want relief. Admitting wecan't cope with emotional pain
(18:07):
is shrouded in shame that needsto change. Suicide is tragic on
every level, but it is notshameful. It's born of
(18:27):
hopelessness that that can'timagine any other way out. You
know, it's this, this thick,Pitch Black haze that that
prevents you from seeing anylight. You know, people say
suicide is a permanent solutionto a temporary problem, and
(18:51):
there is truth to that, butthose who find themselves in the
darkest places. They can't seethat from there, when someone
takes their own life, whensomeone dies by suicide, it's a
profound, unimaginable tragedyfor their loved ones. It's a
(19:14):
reason to mourn the loss of aprecious, beautiful life, we can
be really angry at thesenselessness of the loss, but
there should never be shame. Wedo our worst thinking when we're
(19:37):
walking in the shadows ofdespair, where it feels like
there's no hope, it's not goingto get any better, our thinking
can be so irrational. We'reconvinced taking our own lives
would actually be better forthose we love, we're not able to
see the. Ripples of pain andgrief that will go on for years.
(20:01):
My goal in talking aboutsuicide, especially in church,
is to remove the shame andstigma, to acknowledge there
aren't easy answers, but thereis help. If you're struggling,
(20:22):
you are not alone, and this willnot go on forever. You know, I
believe what we share most incommon is not our strength, but
our vulnerability, our tears.
(20:50):
Sometimes life hurts inunbearable ways for all of us to
help people experience their owngoodness. We need to remove any
shame. It's impossible to askfor help in an environment of
shame. Romans eight says thereis nothing. There is nothing in
(21:17):
all creation. There is nothingin life or death or death that
can ever separate us from thelove of God, revealed in Jesus
Christ, nothing. What that meansis that we are never, ever lost
(21:42):
to love, sometimes we are juststrangers to that love and
strangers to our own goodness.
Remember when you meet anotherperson, I think for all of us,
there are scars that don't show,there are hidden wounds that
(22:06):
aren't healed, there are silentscreams that aren't heard, and
battles that continue to befought In the soul, if you
yourself are suffering fromdepression or have a desire to
self harm or or have suicidalthoughts, please, Please talk to
(22:28):
someone. There is no shame. Youmatter. Your life matters. You
are not alone. For the rest ofus, be a soft place to land. For
(22:52):
those falling off the edge, ask,are you okay? And wait long
enough to actually listen forthe answer. Don't force people
into your light. Be willing tocrawl into the darkness and just
(23:15):
sit beside those who are hurtingwithout judgment, without the
need to advise, fix or save,just love. Some people, a lot of
people, are barely hanging on bya thread. Be that thread, be the
(23:36):
mirror that helps them see theirown goodness, be the love that
helps them experience God'sunconditional love. We are all
broken, and we are allbeautiful, worthy, loved. And
(23:58):
good. Take a breath and anotherone and another one. Remember no
effort earns that allsurrounding grace. Imagine the
(24:19):
first, the last, the best thingthat can be said about you is
that you are loved and deservingof that love. You are worthy and
you are good, amen. YouFriends, you are a child of God
(27:41):
created in the image of God'sown goodness. The first, last,
best thing that can be saidabout you is that you are loved
and deserving of that love. Youare worthy, you are good. May
you remember that no effortearns that all surrounding Grace
go in the peace of Christ, andMay the love you extend to
(28:07):
others bring peace to them.
Whitney Higdon (28:14):
Amen. Thank you so much for joining us, and we
hope you enjoyed this worshipservice. If you would like to
make a donation helping makethese broadcasts possible or
support the many ways. First,Presbyterian seeks to serve our
community, you can make afinancial gift online@bendfp.org
every week, we hear from someonethanking us for the gift of
(28:36):
these broadcasts and what adifference they make. Your
support makes that possible. Ourchurch is committed to reach
beyond our walls, bringing hopewhere there is despair and love
where it is needed the most.
Your generous support helps usto be generous in love. Go to
our website, bendfp.org, andclick on the link. Give online.
Your support is reallyappreciated and makes a
(28:59):
difference in people's lives.
Thanks again. I hope to See younext week.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Two Guys, Five Rings: Matt, Bowen & The Olympics
Two Guys (Bowen Yang and Matt Rogers). Five Rings (you know, from the Olympics logo). One essential podcast for the 2026 Milan-Cortina Winter Olympics. Bowen Yang (SNL, Wicked) and Matt Rogers (Palm Royale, No Good Deed) of Las Culturistas are back for a second season of Two Guys, Five Rings, a collaboration with NBC Sports and iHeartRadio. In this 15-episode event, Bowen and Matt discuss the top storylines, obsess over Italian culture, and find out what really goes on in the Olympic Village.