#165. Calm the Chaos: Conquering Busy Brain Syndrome with Dr Romie Mushtaq

Episode Transcript
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Dr Marisa Lee Naismith (00:00):
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It's Marissa Lee here, and I'mso excited to be sharing today's

(02:13):
interview round episode withyou. In these episodes, our
brilliant lineup of guests willinclude healthcare
practitioners, voice educators,and other professionals who will
share their stories, knowledgeand experiences within their
specialised fields to empoweryou to live your best life.

(02:37):
Whether you're a member of thevoice, community, or beyond your
voice is your unique gift. It'stime now to share your gift with
others develop a positivemindset and become the best and
most authentic version ofyourself to create greater

(02:58):
impact. Ultimately, you can takecharge, it's time for you to
live your best life. It's timenow for a voice and beyond. So
without further ado, let's go totoday's episode.

(03:19):
This week on a voice and beyond,we introduce you to Dr. Roaming
Mushtaq, a distinguishedneurologist and creator of the
brain shift protocol. She is aleading authority in stress
management and leadershipwellness, and her recently

(03:42):
released book the busy braincure. The eight week plan to
find focus time anxiety andsleep again is already making
waves. Dr. Romi is also a highlysought after speaker and her
work has been featured inoutlets such as Forbes, NBC and

(04:07):
TEDx. In this episode, Dr. Romitackles the pressing issue of
busy brain syndrome and thedangerous glorification of
stress and burnout, which havefar reaching consequences for
all of us. This crisis affectsproductivity, performance and

(04:31):
mental well being and it robs usof countless hours of vital
sleep. With the world stillgrappling from the aftermath of
a pandemic stress levels are atan all time high. Busy brain
syndrome is a crisis with farreaching effects. And Dr. Romi

(04:55):
shares some of the solutionsfrom her groundbreaking book The
Busy brain QR during the episodeI shared that I completed the
busy brain protocol. And notsurprisingly, the results came
back that I had brain strain.
Ouch. Thankfully, Dr. Romitalked me through some of the

(05:18):
options available to help mefrom her book. I love that Dr.
Brohm is expertise is not justacademic, it's practical,
actionable, and urgently neededin today's high stress work
environments. So whatever youdo, go and listen to this week's

(05:39):
episode of voice and beyond withDr. Romi mush tag. So without
further ado, let's go to today'sepisode.

(06:03):
Welcome to a voice and beyond.
Thank you for being on the show.
We have Dr. Romi. Mushtaq, howare you?

Dr. Romie Mushtaq (06:12):
Oh Doctor Marisa by Sue sister in STEM. It
is an honour to join you. Thankyou for having me. And thank you
to the listeners for putting usbetween their ears. I don't take
anybody's time for granted.

Oh, that's beautiful. No, you know
you are here. You are doingincredible work. What a
privilege it is to have youhere. And what I love about your
work is that it's not justacademic. It's practical. It's
actionable. And it's trulyurgently needed in today's high

(06:46):
stress work environments. We areall stressed out, we are all
maxed out. We're living inchaotic times, crazy times. You
know, sometimes we look atwhat's going on around us. And
no wonder we're so stressed. Buttell us about your journey, and
how you've come to the pointwhere you're at now doing this

(07:09):
brilliant work.

Thank you for that introduction. I want to
start there from just one fellowdoctor to another and to all the
other women leaders that are ontheir journey listening to this.
One is take a moment and pausetoday and honour another woman's
credentials as elegantly as Dr.
Marissa just did to mine andhonour your own as well. i We
need to normalise that women arethought leaders globally in

(07:34):
their areas. So thank you forthat. Did I grow up knowing I
was going to do this? You know,there was like that little
intuition when we're children,that I had elders like my mom
and my Auntie's would be like,Oh, she's crazy. I remember when
I was a little girl in thefourth grade, knowing that I

(07:55):
have a book in me, it was theweirdest feeling. I was a
voracious reader as a child, butI was like, I am going to be an
author. One day, I had no ideawhat that entailed or meant, but
you know, you just know. And myheroes, my she rose on TV in
those days. Were BarbaraWalters. Connie Chung and Oprah
Winfrey. Women who were doingthe news, say work poised and

(08:18):
smart on TV. And I'd be like,Mom, I want to grow up to be
like them one day, she's like,Are you out of your mind? They
are not going to put a browngirl on TV. We have one daughter
and you will become a doctor.
That is all I heard growing up.
Yes. Did you get the samemessaging from your parents too?
Well, I

was raised to be a wife and the
mother. In these aliencommunity. It was not about
having an education.
Interesting. But likewise, fromthe age of five, I knew what I
wanted to be. And that was to bea professional singer. Oh, wow.
And that's what I ended up doingfor most of my career was I
spent, I've spent most of mylife on stage. And then I've

(09:02):
always known I've wanted to dobetter. I wanted to have that
education. And I didn't startreally educating myself to my
children grew up. Sointeresting.

I love this you we both knew, didn't we? We
didn't have a timeline, but wejust knew where we'd end up. And
so, you know, back in the UnitedStates, just to frame it because
I know you have a globalaudience as to I when I was
growing up as a young girl inthe late 1970s and 1980s. In the
United States, girls did nottrack into science, technology,

(09:42):
engineering, math and medicine.
Even back then in the publicschool system. All girls were
told that I come from a verytraditional culture if people
are listening to this and theycan't see you and I right now
I'm a woman of South Asiandescent and English is my third
language and having immigrantparents here and the Back then
girls were told to go take atyping class and become a
secretary. You needed work ortake another home economics

(10:05):
class and learn cooking andcleaning. Exactly, yeah. But I
didn't, you know, I thinkgoodness for my mom and my dad
and my elders and my teachers,and I went to medical school and
became the doctor. My auntiesexpected me to marry. And I
entered neurology at a timewhere less than 5% of the brain
doctors in the United Stateswere women, and really loved my

(10:27):
job as an MD medical doctor. Notonly was I seeing patients, I
was doing cutting edge researchand women's Hormonal Health in
the brain and epilepsy andmigraines, and teaching medical
students and I was not takingcare of myself. I don't know if
anybody else can relate to this.

(10:48):
I mean, back then, you weren'tallowed to talk about having a
mental health problem at work,let alone there was no word like
burnout. I just felt like mybrain cells were on fire. And I
couldn't cope during the daywithout excessive amounts of
caffeine and I was anxious allthe time and worried and chasing
the next goal, or the next titleor the next pair of designer

(11:10):
shoes. People will read about itmy book. And I learned the hard
way, Dr. Marissa, that chronicstress can cause physical
disease and chronic stress cankill you. I almost died. And I
should have known better. I'm adoctor. Yeah, I was 3334 years
old, and I ended up in lifesaving surgery.

What happened to you? If you don't
mind me asking? No,

no, not at all. And we'll give you the
names of the

talk what was going on physically,
physically,

it started with chest pain. And I went to
the doctor and they're like, Youknow what, you're just stressed
out and you have acid refluxlike everybody else, you need to
stop the coffee stop, the windstopped the chocolate I did it
didn't work. And as timeprogressed, I started to wake up
in the middle of the nightchoking on my own saliva and
vomit and getting frequentpneumonia and we knew something
was wrong. I'm young, likewhat's going on? I have a rare

(12:01):
medical disorder known asAchalasia. And by the time it
was diagnosed, I was just sostressed out that the symptoms
were severe. I was the youngestcase they had ever seen and one
of the most severe and I hadprecancerous lesions in my
oesophagus. And my gosh, and soI ended up in surgery. And I
remember laying there Dr. Morrisin the hospital bed thinking, I

(12:21):
was raised to do this to grow upand be a good student and be a
good doctor, and a dutifuldaughter and hearing him in the
hospital bed going. Nothing I'velearned in medical school is
going to help me now what do Ido? And then you fast forward to
today, we are recording thispodcast in 2024. I went on a

(12:43):
global healing journey formyself, went back and got
certified and mindfulness andintegrative medicine. And as I
was finding the solution to healmy burnout and my busy brain, I
was like, Oh my gosh, this iswhy the universe gave me such
strong message as a child. I wasmeant to go through this mess so

(13:03):
I could help other people cleanup theirs. And that's why I'm
here today. That's

Dr Marisa Lee Naism (13:09):
incredible.
You know, don't you you know,when you've arrived at that
point where you're meant to bewhen you get there. Sometimes in
life, we don't know why thingshappen to

us. Yes, but they're happening for us. And we
don't realise it it

No. And then when we get to a certain
milestone, or an event in ourlives, we look back and we think
all those things that at thetime were either tragic, or
traumatic, or so difficult. Theywere massive challenges and

(13:46):
hurdles. They're all meant tohelp us grow and to become and
to arrive at our finaldestination. But we are
continuing to evolve and growobviously, yes, this isn't the
end for you. There's still somuch work you have to do.
There's work

to be done. I mean, you you never get done
doing the work when you're onthis path of becoming a better
leader of self development ofhealing Mind, Body Spirit. It's
an ongoing journey. But I sharethat having come out the other
side. Because what I just toldyou was an meet talking point
that I've learned to condenseinto a story from my speaking

(14:26):
and writing in the last twominutes. But I really felt
called to speak to you and youraudience in Australia and around
the world today because somebodyis in the middle of their mess.
And I wonder if they can relateto that awful, awful feeling. I
had in the surgeon's office whenhe was like Romi we're going to
need to do emergency surgery,and it may be multiple

(14:48):
surgeries. And there was thismoment where hope departed my
soul it just literally I waslike my spirit detached it it.
That is the only thing I knowhow to describe. And if you're
sitting here listening to thisright now, I am here with Dr.

(15:08):
Marissa. So both of us can holdthe hope for you. And I am here
to say, my sister's, your brainhas not broken, your mind is not
a mess, and hope did not departyour soul. We are here with a
solution like that is what Ifelt so strongly called when I
was meditating, getting readyfor your podcast. Ah,

this is a little bit emotional for me.
I'm getting emotional on my own.
Show me what's coming up. Yeah,I feel like you're talking to me
right now. I feel like I'm in abit of a mess right now. Here I
am being the thought leader hereI am inspiring people. But you
know. And I hope by me sharingthat other people realise they

(15:48):
are not alone. I feel like I'min a little bit of a crisis
point, this thing's going on inmy life. And I did your brain
test. But I don't want to talkabout this.

You know what you did? I'm here to be
President. Yes. And you know,two things can simultaneously be
true. You are a thought leaderhelping people and there is an
aspect of our lives that feelsmessy and hope maybe like
something we feel is like adistant, like goal that you're
grasping at. And Sister, I gotyou. I'm here. We're here for

(16:23):
each other today.

Thank you. But I just want to ask the
question that a lot of peopletalk about stress. And a lot of
people talk about anxiety, Iteach at a university. And
basically, my students haveprobably aged between somewhere
between 17 and 30. And they comein and they are highly anxious.

(16:50):
A lot of them, but there aremany of them who are medicated
or a seeking help frompsychologists. Yes. But there
seems to be a lot more talkabout this. So first up, my
question is, is there adifference between stress and

(17:12):
anxiety? Oh,

yes, yes.

Okay, let's start there. Yeah,

you asked me, Is there a difference between
stress and anxiety? If that'skind of saying like, is there a
difference between butter andapples? All right, you can put
butter and apples together inthe oven with a few other
ingredients and make a niceapple bake, right. But normally,
you don't put apples and butterstogether. So let's break it

(17:39):
down. Stress. There's differentkinds of stress. Stress can be
something that is taxing usphysically, emotionally,
mentally, spiritually, right.
Where people get stress wrong intoday's world is we're defining
stress, the way it used to bedefined in a pre pandemic world
where everything is fine. Andyou might be nervous, because

(18:02):
you're in university and you'vegot a final exam coming up, or
you've got a big presentation atyour job. That's acute stress,
it's over in a few hours or afew days. Most of us after the
pandemic, regardless of what ageor stage of life we're in, we
are living under chronic stress,there is something that is
always taxing us personally,professionally, in some aspect

(18:23):
of our life. One little thingcomes along like that, you know,
sales report that's due at workor the final exam at uni, and
it's going to push you over theedge. That's ironic stress.
Okay, right. Chronic stress, asI've researched it, in my book,
The Busy brain cure can lead toinflammation in the brain known

(18:43):
as neuro inflammation. And itactually can change the
structure and function of yourbrain in a negative way,
especially in an area of thebrain that I call the
hypothalamus, the airporttraffic control tower. And from
that area of the brain, I sharedmy story with you all because
that area of the brain controlsthe rest of our brain and our
body and it can cause disease inthe brain in our body. That

(19:06):
stress. Does that make sense?
That's like we're talking aboutare now okay. anxieties, like
over here. So anxiety, we lumpanxiety and the like all one but
there's actually psychologicallyin the classification, there's
eight subtypes of anxiety. Theyall can happen in different ways

(19:27):
and for different reasons. Canbeing under chronic stress, lead
to inflammation and anxiety?
Absolutely. There are lots ofother reasons that we look for
as a neurologist and integrativemedicine doctor to get to the
root cause of your anxiety. Youknow, the simple things is known
as situational anxiety. So I'mgoing to I, I'll use a personal
example, I always have been abad test taker. Taking a test

(19:50):
would cause me stress. So Iwould have test anxiety, that's
situational anxiety. Once thetest is over, the anxiety is
gone. Regardless if I did goodor bad, right, there is panic
disorder, there's chronicanxiety disorder. There's
ruminating anxiety. So there'slots of different types of
anxiety. But I'm here to reallyshed light on something I've

(20:13):
been researching is the busybrain. Can I explain that Sure.
That when we're chronicallystressed, and we're pushing
ourselves to the edge, the way Iwas once upon a time, and on the
way to burnout, three thingshappen to high achieving adults.
This is like 18 and older. Weget ruminating anxiety, we can't

(20:33):
stop the loop of worries in ourbrain. Yes, in difficulty
focusing during the day or evenadult onset ADHD. And then we
are tired, but we can't fallasleep at night because of
racing thoughts in our brain orwe wake up in the middle of the
night going, Oh, my God, I haveso much work to do.

That sounds like me, right now.
React. That is me right now.
Everything you described.

Yes. Yes. And the last thing people need is
another three tips on Instagramor Tiktok to fix it, because
something deeper is going on inthe brain. And sorry, that noise
you just heard on the microphoneis me clapping for like effect,
because I'm like flailing myhands on the video. Yeah,
there's something deeper goingon sisters and brothers, this
ain't about no tips or tricks,we need to get to the root cause

(21:21):
of a busy brain.

And a situational event, lead to that
busy brain because I have asituation that I'm dealing with,
that is external but greatlyimpacts my life. So Can
something going on outside of aperson's world? Yes,

but chronically, it's going on for a
long time, right. So when Ithink of my illness, I had gone
through a divorce, I was workinghard as a female physician in a
male dominated department andworld. That was chronic stress.
I was chronically sleep deprivedfrom my job. I loved my job, but
I was doing way too much, and aperfectionist and all of it

(22:06):
right. So there were a lot ofchronic life events going on. So
so thank you for sharing. So ifyou're dealing under chronic
stress, then these acute thingskeep coming along like you're on
a deadline to get your podcastout. You're teaching at the
university, you probably have todo grades for students, right?
Yes, those are things you haveto do that'll add up and stress

(22:27):
and that can actually lead andhigh achieving professionals
like you and I to the symptomsof a busy brain. Yes.

Okay. So what do you describe then, to be
a busy brain? What are the thehighlights? Okay,

let's see, do you have a busy brain and we
have a free busy brain teststhat everyone can take, and
we'll put it in the show noteshere. And it's all over my
website and social media. Butthis is the same. You did it and
she has a brain strain. Sothat's a file. You have a mild
brain, but we can fix it.

I love that I have a brain.

That's called a brain strain. A mild busy
brain is mild inflammation, ascore higher than that. And we
start seeing physical symptomsdue to burnout. So you're in the
mild category. It's easy to walkback, you know, but but this is
it in busy brain. Do you wake upand you're like, girl, don't
even talk to me until I getcaffeine. And I'm going to tell
Dr. Murrison. Dr. Romi, it wasjust one latte. But really, it

(23:24):
was a lot of energy drinks and acaffeine pill. Or maybe the
doctor even put you on Adderallbecause you can't focus no
judgement, but you just you justjust like it and then you were
like Loki anxious all day andyou've got multiple screens open
in front of you and you can'tfocus, everything keeps digging.
And you're like, I'm never gonnafinish this email. It's so
simple. It should only take methree minutes and it's taking me

(23:45):
37 minutes in the to do list ispiling up faster than you can
tolerate. And you're so anxious.
You're like, wait, I heard thatpodcast with Dr. Murrison. Dr.
Rami today, I'm gonna go homeand chill. And you go home and
you can't take the edge off. Soyou're like, Let me have a glass
of wine or three. And you dothat. And then you go to put
your head down to sleep. Andyou're like, I can't shut down
the 72 warring conversations inmy brain. Or you fall asleep

(24:09):
because of the alcohol or asleeping pill. But you wake up
somewhere between two and fouro'clock. And you're like, Oh,
I'm wide awake. I may as well.
Yep, you too, huh? And I may aswell get some work done. That's
a busy brain. That's

not me.
Now I can say I do not. I don'trelate to that. Okay. No, I'm
not that level. Not

that level.
Okay, no, but any one of thosesymptoms or triad can be it
right? Now, if the only thingthat really you can relate to
and you have that busy brainscore is that you're waking up
in the middle of the night andyou can't sleep as a woman. I
want to look at your hormonesand that when we'll get into
that the brain shift. The shiftis five key areas that we assess
because not everyone's the same.

(24:53):
S is for sleep and circadianrhythm. H is for hormones, and
that's the key that we look for.
I

do We relate to that be close. I hope
this is not too much informationfor our listeners. But I have
been waking up in the middle ofthe night at around four 4am.
Well, that's not really themiddle of the night. But

that is that's the middle of the night.
I mean, it really is most peopleyou should be waking up when the
sun is rising. Yes. So

this is pre sun rising. And I've been
waking up, covered inperspiration. Now,
interestingly, this hasn'thappened for a long time. And
when this situational anxietyhit me, I started to go through

(25:45):
these hormonal changes again,like something shifted with my
hormones. Yeah, because I'm inthe midst of a situation that
there is going to be there isgoing to be a solution. But I
can't get

there. And here's the thing that I say is,
we have to take a busy brainbecause some people say, Hey,
Dr. Romi, you know what, when mydivorce is over, the stress will
be gone. And I'll feel better.
Or, you know, when my child getsinto uni, or or I sell this
house and buy a new one, I'llfeel better. When we wait on
external circumstances to changeour brain state won't because we

(26:24):
haven't healed the inflammationyet. But what's happening is
there is something externallygoing on. And it's affecting
your mood that can affect thestructure and function of your
brain and your hormones andimmune systems, psycho neuro
immuno endocrinology. And sowhat's happening, the chronic
stress causes the neuroinflammation in the hypothalamus

(26:45):
of the brain, the circadianrhythm, and it can, it disrupts
our sleep wake cycle, and alsohormones. And so when I hear
there's a return of increasedtemperature and perspiration
under high stress, and not justfor you, Dr. Mercer, but anybody
listening, here are the five,six things I think about. Okay,

(27:06):
one is alcohol. Okay. And again,I'm not completely anti alcohol.
But if somebody's has a highscore on the busy brain test, we
tell them no alcohol, because,man, woman, even one ounce of
hard liquor or want half a canof beer, or four ounces of wine
will raise your brain and bodycore temperature in the

(27:29):
hypothalamus. I do believe that.
Yeah. I mean, it's science,right? And then as you're
metabolising it out, you'regoing to have the sweat. And if
you if you're wearing a sleeptracker, you see you're not
getting into deep sleep and yourtemperature rises, and you're
going to wake up, sweating outthe booze, as they call it.
Yeah, yes.

Because I, I usually have at least four
nights a week, alcohol free, andthen I will have a drink on the
weekend. Yeah. But yep, freethis event, I would only wake up
with that temperature increasewhen I had been having a drink.

(28:10):
And I'm not an excessivedrinker, but even one drink,

but even a little bit of wandering

yet, would exacerbate that. But those
nights that I didn't drink, Ididn't have that increase in
temperature. But now thatincrease in temperature is there
every night. Okay,

so one, the simplest one is to take out the
alcohol and for many people, menor women that does the trick,
but when there's chronic stressgoing on, we have to look and so
three, four other things we lookat is in men and women, women,
especially I look at a thyroid,when we're under chronic stress
and the airport traffic controltowers off, I want to know a
full thyroid panel. And inchapter 16 of the book, we have

(28:48):
the lab slip because mosttraditional doctors only check a
TSH and T three and T four andthere's actually eight labs and
it's on the website as well. Soit's there and available
globally, by the way, notselling yet book and Kindle,
audible Amazon wherever you buybooks in Australia, it's there.
So we break that down. And sothat's the one thing. The second
thing then we look for is issomebody under so much chronic

(29:12):
stress and busy brain thatthey're having insulin
regulation problems, so yourblood sugar drops in the middle
of the night, even if you'reeating clean and you didn't have
a lot of carbs, and that'scausing you to sweat
hypoglycemia, so alcoholhyperglycemia thyroid, and then
the last one I go to and peopleare like wait, you're a woman's
doctor. Shouldn't you be sayingmenopause Dr. Rami, shouldn't

(29:35):
you be talking to Dr. Marissaabout her progesterone to
oestrogen levels? Yes and no.
Because so many women run tothat and their doctors only
check the FSH, LH oestrogenprogesterone levels and they
give them bioidentical hormonesor hormones. And if you don't
check the other things, you'renot going to get better.

Dr Marisa Lee Nais (29:56):
Interesting, I can relate to little bits of
everything. Ah,

thank you for sharing. Yeah. Because

yes, I can feel the difference in
temperature, body temperature.
When I drink. I think that mymetabolism has changed. Because
right now, like I'm alightweight and I'm having
trouble putting weight on.

It makes me want to check your thyroid
sister.

Yes. And also that hypoglycemic. Yeah,
there are times I feel my bloodsugar levels absolutely plummet.
So I find that I have to eatregularly. Yes. So every couple
of hours, I've got to press food

and probably have like a healthy fat or high
protein like right beforebedtime, like peanut butter, you
know, on our

thing.
Yeah. So I don't want to makethis about me.

No, I'm glad you are because here's the
thing. Like there's nocoincidences in the universe.
And I feel like you're sharingthis and somebody listening is
like, Oh my god. Dr. Mirza,thank you for breaking it down
in simple symptoms. So now Dr.
Romi is telling me what I needto ask my doctor.

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(33:03):
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(33:25):
this idea of stress and anxiety,you also talk about burnout. And
we're all working so much harderthan what we're used to. Or are
we because I remember that whenmy parents came to Australia.
They were post war migrants. Andthey came here with nothing. And

(33:48):
they worked really, really hard.
They were working seven days aweek. Are we actually working
harder? Or do we think we'reworking harder? Like, what is
really going on in the worldtoday? Is it a mental state of
working? I am working so hard?
No, no,

this isn't about comparing ourselves to our
parents, right? Because itreally depends on the generation
that we know for somegenerations, like the silent
generation or boomers like GenX, we're going to live longer
than them right? Healthcareadvances, but now that's
reversing with Gen Z. So let mebacktrack when you asked me, Are

(34:29):
we working harder than ourparents were working
differently? Differently is dueto three things is most people
of your my parents generation.
When they left work, they leftwork and went home. Now my dad
was also a doctor so he had apager or patients would call
that home, but he could stillcome home and exercise and spend

(34:50):
time with the kids and havedinner with his family. In
today's world, most people intheir jobs never get to leave
their jobs, were checking ourcell phones for text messages,
emails, oval, you know, workteams. So somebody is always
working and is meeting ananswer. There's this FOMO for

(35:10):
work in this, this change inwork culture that in order to be
a good employee, you always haveto be working so or even as an
entrepreneur, right that hustleculture. So that's number one is
that we've lost our boundariesnumber two, in a post pandemic
world where we were alreadychronically stressed before the
pandemic, and we went throughsocial isolation and this, like

(35:31):
global trauma and everythingthat's going on, we're at mental
capacity. So the same job thatour families were doing, and
we're doing today is we'rearriving with less mental
capacity, we've been through alot like, you know, the only
thing that we maybe equate thisto is the global Great
Depression, but even that, youknow, didn't have this level of

(35:53):
social isolation. And then thethird thing is, we are not doing
things that are healthy, like, Idon't that tell me about your
childhood in Australia, mychildhood, in a small town in
America growing up like, youknow, Mama wanted us and aunties
out of their hair. They werelike kids go play outside. And
we didn't we eat a lot ofprocessed foods

like we do today. Yeah, we didn't eat
any.

Yes. And today, kids and adults, we don't
put our phones down for socialmedia for bingeing a TV series,
or movie being on so tick tocklike working. And even that is
not even one device, if so many.
And that's what changed rewiredour brains and rewired our lives
and that not a lot of peoplehave that luxury anymore. Dr.

(36:45):
Marissa, do they to say, youknow, I'm going to take the
weekend off from work and notchicken at all. And if they are,
they're on other devices doingother stuff?

Well, I put my hand up here. And I tried
to take time for myself duringthe week. Exercise for me is
really important for my mentalhealth. What kind of exercise do
you do, I like doing Pilatestwice a week, I will and going
to the gym and doing weighttraining twice a week, because I
don't mind that that's a reallynice balance. And then trying to

(37:21):
grab some time where I can gofor a walk in the sun just to
get that vitamin D. But I alsowalk to the gym, and I walk to
my Pilates class. When I wasgrowing up, my mom didn't drive
a car, ah, as children, mybrother and I, we we would walk

(37:45):
everywhere with my mom, becausemy mother would be at work, we
would walk to the store, wewould walk and do shopping and
going to church and visitingpeople, we would walk everywhere
going to school was anotherthing. And so I was raised that
we would walk and ouch publictransport. And the funny thing

(38:08):
is that I'm finding as I getolder, I am going back to that
wherever I can. I am walkingnow.

Nice. And

I love it. I feel that it's so less
stressful to walk somewhere thanto drive. But you also feel
better. Like as soon as I put myfoot step and I step outside the
front door, and just breathingin that fresh air and feeling
that some on you. Your wholemood changes. Yes. But the

(38:42):
problem is I do work seven daysa week. Even if on a Sunday, I
spend two hours doing some workon my podcast. I'm still
working. But I'm in the processnow of removing that I'm making
changes to remove that. Yes,

I'm going to check in on you. You know,
here's my thing is right now, myjob I like you, I run my own
business. So I'm a keynotespeaker and we've launched a
book. So I'm doing all thismedia and podcast tour. So
that's like Job number two initself. Job Number three is I
serve as Chief wellness officerfor a company known as Great
Wolf resorts here in the UnitedStates. So my job as a doctor

(39:22):
and chief wellness officer is tothink through the wellness
strategy of over 10,000employees. Wow. So well, yes, do
I check in with my work emailand my team and my Slack
channels are sometimes like thisweekend. I'm gonna have a little
bit of work to check in on theweekend. But I schedule it
right? Yes, but there has to bea pause where I am like, I'm

(39:44):
going to take a break forseveral days in a row, or at
least one day on the weekend.
And when we take that break,it's what else can I do to
disconnect from digital devices?
Because we find we're moreproductive when we take breaks
and listen Yeah, we from thereal world, a lot of people
listening are like you and I,and they've got a lot going on
between family and work. Andthey're like I'm working seven

(40:06):
days a week, then we break itdown even further and say, for
every hour, you're sitting infront of the screen, you need to
get up for 10 minutes. So theideal thing for your brain to
reduce stress levels is to getup eight times a day in an eight
hour workday for five to 10minutes and get away from the

(40:26):
what we say the scene of thecrime, which is your desk. I

agree.
That's what I tend to try and dois that when is to take a break,
and go and do something elsethat's totally unrelated. For
example, go and go and evenlike, tidy the bedroom. Yes.

Oh, except me. I've let me tell you the
only thing that I'll stress meout more I am going to let Dr.
Mirza is if I gotta fold mylaundry. That's the thing that
stresses me out more. I'm luckyI have a glass mug. So he gets
to go out frequently, you know?
And we do that. But yeah, yeah,tidying up the room. The idea
is, is to engage your hands andyour eyes and your sense of
sound, the hearing touch smellinto other things. Yes,

yes. So your brain shift protocol, what
sets that apart from othermodalities or other ways of
dealing with these issues ofstress and burnout and anxiety?
Yeah,

most people come to us. And they've already
tried all these tips and tricksof getting up outside getting
off the computer, all thosethings, and they're like
something is really going on.
And I want to get to the rootcause of it. So two things
happen is we walk you through astep by step eight week
protocol, starting in chapter10, of the book known as brain
shifts the micro habits torestore five key areas. So sleep
or circadian rhythm, ages,hormones, eyes, markers of

(41:45):
inflammation, we talked aboutblood sugar as an example. F is
how you use food to fuelyourself without going on a diet
and T is technology. So we walkyou through this eight week
protocol that we put 1000 peoplethrough that actually heals the
burnout, that will improve yourscore by at least 25%. But you
will feel better. You're likeI'm focusing, I'm sleeping
through the night wake notwaking up with those hot flashes

(42:06):
anymore. The stress from thelife situation you were
discussing that's going on. It'sthat life situation still there,
but it's not hijacking my brain.
And the best part is, is we havelabs that we ask people to go
get. And so when you're underchronic stress and have a busy
brain, things can happen and weask you to go get screened so it

(42:27):
can be treated. And that's themagic of this protocol. So three
things eight week, programmehabits that stack on each other
that make you feel better. Thesecond thing is we get to the
root cause of why you're feelinganxious, why you're not
sleeping, why you have ADHD. Andthe third thing is we send you
for laps and to find an actualsolution to heal so that is it

(42:48):
because you like the example isI'm like Cisco Oh, we got to
check your fasting insulinglucose levels and haemoglobin
anyone seeing your full thyroid?
Like we need to get to thebottom of this. Yeah.

So a lot of the books that are out there
and a lot of the thoughtleaders, they have all these
wonderful philosophies. Butsometimes there is something
more going on isn't there? It'snot just about Yes, putting up a
sticky note on the mirror andreading an affirmation every
morning. That's not going to cutit.

That isn't when people come to me. They are
live Dr. Marissa Dr. Rami,please do not tell me to eat
berries and breathe and thinkabout unicorns. There is
something going on in my busybrain and that's what I'm here
to fix. So that you canspiritually manifest the life
that you want. But when you'vegot a busy brain, we're
disconnected from Spirit.
Remember I said hope departedthe soul Your body is like

(43:39):
betraying your you're like I'meating clean, what's going on?
That's what's going on. It'syour busy brain, you heal it.
And then everything is in syncBrain Body Spirit.

Are you ready to scale and share your
products or services globally?
Well, introducing a voice andbeyond the podcast that reaches
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point 5% of podcasts globally, avoice and beyond is offering you

(44:17):
an exclusive opportunity toconnect with an international
audience. This isn't just aboutadvertising. It's an exclusive
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message worldwide. So whetheryou're a member of the voice

(44:39):
community, a health careprofessional, an author, a
budding entrepreneur, or anestablished brands, seize the
moment to be heard where itmatters most. You can email me
on info at Dr Marisa Leenaismith.com or will visit the
link in the show notes to learnmore about this extraordinary

(45:02):
opportunity, whatever you do,don't miss out on reaching our
global audience. Because yourvoice deserves to be heard
everywhere. So how many hourssleep should we be getting to be
at that optimal brain health? Dobelieve

whatever it takes for you to get up and wake
up and be like, I feel good. I'mready to take on the day. And
that's different for everyone.
Right? It's not just thequantity but the quality of
sleep. Did you get into thedeeper stages of sleep? Did you
sleep through the night withoutwaking up in the middle of the
night that those things are moreimportant to me?

And are there foods that you believe we
should avoid?

Dr. Romie Mushta (45:49):
Interestingly, I think this is what also sets
my book and the protocol apart.
And I think a lot of mycolleagues in integrative
functional medicine were likewhy, but I gotta tell you, Dr.
Mercer, I live in the realworld. And in the real world
diet is a four letter curseword. I agree. Yes. And we both
are daughter of immigrants. Andwe have foods that are tied to

(46:11):
our ancestry, religiousholidays, family memories. I
don't want to rob anybody of joyin today's world, like, in the
back of my book, you read therecipes of our loved ones, our
comfort foods, I actually wantpeople to have joy by eating
comfort food. How do we in thebrain shift protocol, control
the cause of food? We basicallysay, Hey, if you're going to

(46:35):
have caffeine, if you're goingto have a soda, if you're going
to have tea, coffee expresso,you're not going to have any
sugars with it. Nocarbohydrates, no white bread,
white flour, white sugar, whiterice, white potatoes, that's
going to spike your blood sugar.
If you're going to have one ofthose things because listen, I
love rice, my people we loverice. No caffeine for an hour

(46:58):
before after Yeah, my peoplelove pasta, pasta. Okay, see,
like, we are not going to takeaway the pasta and the rice from
families like ours. But ifyou're going to do that, then
one hour before and after thatmeal, no caffeine, that's it. So
then you're not putting yourbrain through this yo yo of
caffeine and adenosine receptorsbeing stimulated and the insulin

(47:20):
receptors that's like pouringgasoline on a fire in busy
brains like regular regular itinflammation. And it's gonna
kill your focus and really makeit so you pick one or the other.
Then you add a healthy fat toevery meal. That's it. Olive
oil, avocados, coconut oil,fish, oil, capsules, fish, you
name it, whatever it is healthyfat to every meal and trust me

(47:43):
after that, like your brain islike golden you'd like chronic
stress what stress gonna wink inthe eye and be like, I got my
energy back. So imagine thisbottom line, I want to say Dr.
Marissa, I hope in the next weekand then you tag me on social
media when you do have somecomfort food.

Yeah, well, I do on a Saturday night.

How many What do you do you make pasta and
like homemade pasta tomorrow I'm

having the family over. And in the
Italian culture, Grandma is theword for grandma is Nona, but no
one and I have two grandsons.
But they call me Nani Lauren.
They love coming to Nani's housefor a big Italian Fiesta amazing

(48:28):
So tomorrow I'm cooking pasturesI'm putting out beautiful fresh
fruits and making a dessert andwe're going to have a beautiful
gathering where we play games asa family and I love that and we
enjoy food together.

Yes And so once to twice a week have that
and to me it's a bonus if you doit with other people right and
so I'm in the stage of my lifedivorced and single and I'm
holding out hope that my lifepartner and companion is coming
in right but it I'm recordingthis podcast this morning for

(49:08):
you and it's evening for me I'mheading out to dinner with
friends after this right and andthat's it it's once or twice a
week with loved ones havecomfort food, have the joy this
is robbed of joy and hope and ifyou and I can put it back in
well then this podcast was worthit to whoever listened just

Dr Marisa Lee Naismit (49:30):
listening to you talk about this stuff
brings me joy because I'malready visualising it I'm
already feeling it. I'm puttingmyself in that situation. And I
think the key word here, notonly is comfort food, but
sharing with other people wehave become isolationist. We

(49:54):
have we are living alone. We arenot getting out there We are not
being a part of a broadercommunity, or having our tribe
and those people that that bringus joy. Yes, yeah, we are no
longer living that way. And yet,I've watched that programme on
Netflix about the centenarians.
And one of the things, thatthose people who live in the

(50:19):
Blue Zones, it was revealed onthat programme, that they are
very much in a community wherethey feel a sense of belonging.

And that was the key. That was the key.
People were like, What are theyeating? What do they do to
exercise? What do they do to tokeep their brains sharp? The
number one thing was the socialconnections, you are absolutely
right. And that sense of okay.
Yeah. So thank you, thank youfor inviting me into your
podcast and into your world and,and giving me a space of
belonging this evening, halfwayacross the world, or

so most of my listening audience. So a
great part of my listeningaudience, come from the singing
teaching community. So we're notleaders, but in the sense of,
we're not leading in a fortune500 company, we are not big
corporate people. But we areleading in a different way we

(51:20):
are mentoring in a differentway. Yes. And I know that you
give a lot of advice, and youwork with people in that role.
We have those students that comein, as I said, they're highly
stressed, they're highlyanxious. So what should we be
doing to serve those studentswhen they come in that way? And

(51:42):
because at the same time, weneed to be mindful that we are
not hounds. Mm. And, you know,we have to, we have to know our
boundaries. But what can we dofor those students? In that way,

I mean, thank you for asking that. I'm a firm
believer that we are allleaders. And in that moment,
when you have a student you areleading the students who are
leading that classroom, even ifit's only one other pupil, we
have to manage our own energy.
We can't do the fake it till youmake it. So if I come in with a
busy brain, then people aroundme are going to feel busy brain
or they're going to feel down.

(52:19):
So one, it's you've got to focuson your own brain and your own
body and your energy. And itdoesn't mean you you're not
having a bad day, but like beaware of it. So it's not
projecting number two, whensomebody is having an emotion,
and they feel safe enough tohave it in front of you, there
is just one thing they need tohear. I am here and I care. They
don't need you to be atherapist, they don't need you

(52:40):
to find a solution. They need tohear I am here and I am I care.
And then I think your community,Dr. Mercer has the biggest gift
of all, and that is the gift ofmusic. We know from centuries of
sound healing and music therapy.
Now the science is catching up,that the act of creating music
making music listening to music,in itself is healing. So maybe

(53:03):
you're there to heal someone ina different way. It doesn't
matter that they're not the nextBroadway singer or the next pop
star, you're offering themhealing in that moment by
creating music together.

Yes, so true. And it is that when I'm
feeling stressed myself oranxious, I do find that I have
to do the work on myself, Ican't go into that teaching
studio with that energy. Thateither I have to spend a little
bit more time into meditation,or journaling, or being very

(53:41):
intentional, and writing downwhat my intentions are, for my
classes that day. Becauseotherwise we come in with
biases, we don't have patience.
And we're not aware of theenergy that the other person is
bringing into the room. Becauseusually, when you get to know
your students and the peoplethat you're working with, you

(54:02):
can tell by the look on theirface, or the way that they
carried themselves or the wordsthat they're using or their
language or their tone of voice,that there is something amiss
with them. But if you're caughtup in you, yourself, you miss
all those cues. Yeah. Yes. Sowhen you work with leaders in

(54:23):
those fortune 500 companies,what are the main things that
you're working with, to helpthem navigate their corporate
lives?

I think everything we just talked about,
it's what is your busy brainscore? Let's heal your busy
brain, and then heal the brainsof your team and manage your
energy. Like everything I justtalked to you about the
students. It's the same conceptwhen you're leading a team. It's
no different and it sounds sobasic, but I think it's a
concept that we've lost. And Iwork with some of those

(54:58):
brilliant leaders like you workwith Some of the most brilliant
performers and teachers, and theconcept is one in the same. You
can read all the leadership,self help books you want and
developing emotionalintelligence. And all of those
things are so important. But itall starts with the state of our
brain. And that's it. Yeah.

Do you feel that there is a difference
between the brain and what wecall the mind? Yes,

absolutely.
spiritually. And and we knowanatomically? Absolutely, yes.

So what is the difference between the
brain and the mind, then,

you know, a brain, I think of the actual
physical structure that isprotected by the skull that's
has this rich cells and neuronalnetwork that's correct,
connected with the rest of thebrain and the rest of the body,
the mind is the combination ofthe brain, body and spirit. And
it is that kind of thread thattakes our intuition and spirit

(55:58):
and integrates it with thefunctioning of our brain and
emotions and into the body. Andthat's the mind. Amazing.

Dr.
Romi? What is your mission?

You know, in this moment in life, you catch
me at a time where I'm verythoughtful, I'm turning 50 this
year. And I've had to think of,from a strict culture that I
come from that maybe I didn't dothings in the order that was
expected of women. And yet I'veaccomplished things that
ordinary women don't accomplish.
So I've had to really thinklike, what is my mission? And

(56:32):
what is my life purpose, and Ireally say it's this, it's, I
don't want you to be sitting andsuffering and your brain or your
body or spirit, like I once wasin a hospital, feeling alone.
And that there's nobody there. Iknow what it feels like. And so
my mission is is one, anybodythat comes in my path to know

(56:57):
that you're not alone. To that Iwill hold hope for you until you
find it. And three, let'simprove our brain and mental
health as individuals. And asteams like we have to do that
this is the priority.

Do you have a final piece of advice
that you would like to offer ourlisteners?

I think I'll repeat it again, is if you find
yourself in a place, that lifeis challenging you. I'm here to
remind you, your brain has notbroken your mind is not a mess,
and hope did not depart yoursoul. We're here for you.
Beautiful.

Is there anything that you would like to
add to this interview thatperhaps we haven't discussed? I

feel complete. And I feel honoured to
have met you, Dr. Mercer andserved you're

likewise it has truly been a joy. We're
going to share the links to thebusy brain test, which I did. It
was interest taking. And it'sweird because when I was doing
it, I was thinking to myself hadI had done the test a couple of
months ago, my score would havebeen very different. So it can

(58:12):
change.

A change is this dynamic, our brain and our
mind is dynamic as his life.

Yeah, my responses would have been very
different. And we're also goingto share the links to your book
so people can find you as wellas on your website. And it has
truly been a joy to have you onthe show. I appreciate your
time. And I love the work thatyou're doing. I feel that I

(58:38):
really need to go and buy thisbook and and do all the tests
get all the all the blood

art at chapter 11 started chapter 11.
You'll hear the stories ofexecutives who went through the
protocol and and teachers andand the labs are there in
chapter 16. So take it to yourGP they're in Australia, they
will do it.

Amazing.
No thank you so much. Go andenjoy your dinner. Thank you
your your comfort food with yourfriends. Thank you so much. Dr.
Romi.

Thank you Doctor Marisa.

Bye.
Thank you so much for listeningto this episode of voice and
beyond. I hope you enjoyed it asnow is an important time for you
to invest in your own self care,personal growth and education.
Use every day as an opportunityto learn and to grow so you can

(59:30):
show up feeling empowered andready to live your best life. If
you know someone who will alsobe inspired by this episode,
please be sure to copy and pastethe link and share it with them.
Or share it on social media anduse the hashtag a voice and
beyond. I promise you I amcommitted to bringing you more

(59:54):
inspiration and conversationsjust like this one Every week,
and if you'd like to help me,please rate and review this
podcast and cheer me on byclicking the subscribe button on
Apple podcast right now. I wouldalso love to know what it is
that you most enjoyed about thisepisode and what was your

(01:00:16):
biggest takeaway? Please takecare and I look forward to your
company next time on the nextepisode of a voice and beyond.

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