November 19, 2025 • 19 mins
In this episode, host Jessica Samuels sits down with Innovation & Project Development Manager at CMHA Kelowna, Jamie Lloyd-Smith to introduce CRCL (Crisis Response Community Led), an innovative new service operated by CMHA Kelowna. CRCL offers a compassionate, community-driven alternative to traditional crisis response—one that does not involve law enforcement and is built on peer support, clinical expertise, and voluntary participation.
Jamie explains who CRCL is for, how it works, why peer experience is foundational, and how it fills a critical gap between crisis phone lines and emergency services. Drawing on insights from other BC communities already using this model, she highlights the power of being met by trained responders—without uniforms, judgement, or police presence—who can meet people where they are and on their terms.
CRCL launches in Kelowna in early 2026 and aims to provide immediate, human-centered support for anyone aged 13+ who is experiencing a mental health crisis.
Key Topics Covered
• What is CRCL?
- A mobile, community-led crisis response program.
- Stands for Crisis Response Community Led.
- Built to bridge the gap between crisis lines and 911.
• Why a community-led model matters
- Many people in crisis are met with police response—not always appropriate or trauma-informed.
- CRCL teams include clinicians and trained peers with lived experience.
• Role of Peer Support
- Peers bring empathy, credibility, and firsthand understanding of navigating mental health challenges.
- Their input shaped program design—from how phone calls are answered to how people are greeted.
• How CRCL works
- Service for anyone 13+—you can call for yourself or someone else.
- Call or text a dedicated number (to be released).
- A two-person team responds in person—no uniforms, no police.
- Fully consent-based: the individual in crisis directs the process.
- Focus on safety, de-escalation, listening, and co-creating a care plan.
• When to call CRCL
- “There is never a wrong time to call CRCL.”
- Crisis is self-defined.
- Early support can prevent emergencies.
• How CRCL fits with existing services
- Helps divert people from emergency departments and police involvement.
- Strong collaboration with first responders when safety concerns exist.
• Lessons from other BC communities
- Kelowna will be the 7th community to implement this model.
- Jamie shares insights from Victoria’s program, including partnerships, safety practices, and community relationships.
• Launch timeline
- CRCL Kelowna launches early 2026.
- CMHA Kelowna will release access details and resources as the program becomes available.
Notable Quotes
- “When we don’t include the voice of lived experience, we’re just going to get it wrong.” — Jamie
- “There is never the wrong time to call CRCL.”
- “You define what crisis looks like in your life—and your experience is valid.”
- “This program meets you where you’re at, with compassion, dignity, and choice.”
Resources & Links
- Learn more: A Way Forward Podcast page at cmhakelowna.org
- Have a question about CRCL or this episode? Email: awayforward@cmhakelowna.org
About the Podcast
A Way Forward: Conversations on Mental Health, presented by Beem Credit Union, explores timely and complex mental health topics with local experts, sharing insights that help build healthier, more compassionate communities.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jessica Samuels (00:00):
Hello, I'm Jessica Samuels. Welcome to A
(00:02):
Way Forward presented by BeamCredit Union. I'd like to
acknowledge that this podcasttakes place on the ancestral
traditional and unseated landsof the Okanagan Silic people.
Our topic today is about a newprogram to CMHA Kelowna. It
utilizes a mobile and communityled approach for mental health
services.
(00:23):
And my guest is the manager ofproject development here at CMHA
Kelowna, Jamie Lloyd Smith, andshe's going to tell us who this
program is for and how it works.Beam Credit Union is proud to
sponsor today's episode. Withdeep roots in BC and a
commitment to your financialjourney, Beam believes wellness,
mental and financial starts withsupport you can count on. Jamie,
(00:47):
thanks for being here. Let'sstart with a really easy
question.
What is Circle?
Jamie Lloyd-Smith (00:52):
Circle. It is a great question, though.
CIRCLE, the acronym is CRCL. Sowhat that stands for is Crisis
Response Community Led. So we'recalling it CIRCLE.
But really it's in the name. Sowe're thinking about how we
respond to crisis in community.And the way we want to do that
is through a community ledapproach. What does community
(01:12):
led approach mean? So for us asan organization at CMHA Kelowna,
we know the impact of thisservice.
You know, as an organization anda history of working with people
who've experienced mental healthchallenges, who may experience
mental illness, we know there'sa gap for people who may be
experiencing a mental healthcrisis, who don't know where to
(01:36):
go. And when they do reach outfor help, might be met with an
enforcement led approach. Itmight come with a police
officer, which isn't always theright service in that case. So
for us, it's a model of doingthis in community. And what that
looks like for us is everythingfrom the team makeup but how we
(01:56):
work with partners.
So something that's reallyawesome about this program is
it's made up of people who havea mental health background. So
that might be clinicians, thatcould be nurses, people with
that academic and theoreticalunderstanding of mental health,
but it also brings peers. Andpeers are people with lived
(02:18):
experience. They may have livedexperience of mental health
challenges. Maybe they've gonethrough crisis or they've
navigated the system.
They know what those challengeslook like. And they sort of
bring that perspective intocommunity at sort of that
grassroots level to reallysupport people in whatever they
might be feeling in that moment.
Jessica Samuels (02:38):
That lived experience or living peer
support experience is really afoundational element of many
things, particularly mentalhealth services. Why is that so
important? How does that impactthat support model for
individuals who are experiencingmental health challenges?
Jamie Lloyd-Smith (02:53):
I think as we do this work and we think about
that voice of lived experience,when we don't include it, we're
just going to get it wrong. Wereally are. For people who've
navigated the system, for peoplewho, at some point in their life
had had that challenge, theyneed to reach out for help, they
(03:14):
are the experts in terms of whatis going to work for them. I'm
proud as we've been developingthis team and bringing staff on
board with those diverseexperiences, they've been
telling us what we can do tosort of make sure we're
including the right supports andwhat that looks like for people.
I'll give you an exampleactually.
(03:34):
Recently, we were looking at ourphone system for Circle. And
what does this need to looklike? Who needs to be answering
on the other end? And our teamsaid right off the bat, I've
called crisis lines and I've hada robot answer the phone, and I
don't want that. I want a humanon the other end.
So including that livedexperience, we just know that
(03:55):
we're going to be talking topeople who get it, whose
experiences have shaped whattheir story looks like. And it's
a reminder for all of us thatanyone can experience a crisis.
Let's talk a little bit aboutthat because you touched on when
you call. So we know they're notgoing to get a robot. Walk us
through what will happen.
(04:16):
Like, how does Circle work?Yeah. So really, way Circle
works at its core, it is amobile response team. So this is
a service for anyone 13 yearsand up and really if you're the
person in crisis, can call, butyou can also call on behalf of a
family member, a loved one,maybe you're a neighbor. You can
(04:38):
either call or text this numberand what you're going be met
with is ultimately compassionatehuman on the other end who's
going to ask you thosequestions, understand where you,
what are you going through.
And what we want to provide isthat immediate in person
response. So a team will bedispatched and they'll come meet
(04:58):
you where you're at. So ifthat's your own home, maybe
that's a work place, maybeyou're at a community center,
they're going to come to you andmeet you on your terms. So a
critical foundation of Circle isthis is a consent based service.
The person in crisis is incharge of what their journey
looks like.
(05:19):
If you call on behalf of someoneand you show up and that person
in crisis isn't ready to talk,no problem. We'll come when you
are ready. But really, you getto define what that journey
looks like.
Jessica Samuels (05:31):
Okay. And that team that you mentioned does not
involve law enforcement, and itinvolves the folks who have the
kind of academic professionalexperience around mental health
supports or what the needs arefor the individuals in crisis
and peers. So I think theremight be this idea out there for
folks who haven't had to call ormaybe who folks have called and
(05:52):
saw something different that itcan be daunting. It can be scary
to have these mental healthfolks come because you called
and you're in crisis. Like, Ijust I can imagine there's this
vision in this head that eventhat in itself would prevent
people from calling.
(06:14):
So it's not going to look likethat. They're not what are they
going to look like? What willthey be wearing? I want details
here. And I'm asking becausespecific, I have been asked this
before about mental healthservices for folks who've
contacted me and needed help andcommunity.
They're like, look, you know, Idon't need
Jamie Lloyd-Smith (06:32):
a doctor and an officer showing up at my
door. So what does it look like?You know, it's a it's a great
question. And we hear the samething. Sometimes there's a
trauma with uniforms or or whatthat response might look like.
You're going to get two peoplewith empathy who care, who are
(06:53):
wearing clothes like any one ofus might be wearing and who are
going to sit down withcompassion and understand what
that experience is like for youin that moment. Ultimately,
they're going to be there tohelp you. I think what is really
beautiful about Circle is thatit's really up to that
individual what that story lookslike. Maybe in that moment, you
(07:17):
just need to have a listeningear and maybe you need someone
to help you build that careplan. And both of those
experiences are valid.
And what's unique about thisprogram, maybe comparatively to
hotline services, for example,is that human face to face
connection and building rapportwith people in such a beautiful
way.
Jessica Samuels (07:38):
You it's community at the circle. It's
it's it's community led meantfor folks who are experiencing
crisis experiencing a crisis.You just talked about scenarios
where it's it's your it's led bythe individual. They might just
want a listening ear or maybethey need something a little bit
more. Crisis is something thatis defined differently by the
(08:01):
person witnessing it orexperiencing it.
How do you know that you can orshould be calling this service?
And I use that language because,again, oftentimes people feel
like they're not in crisisenough. I can manage this. No,
if I get if I call somebody, I'mgoing to be taken into custody
(08:21):
or taken to
Jamie Lloyd-Smith (08:22):
the hospital. How do you know that it's the
right time to call circle?Ultimately, it is never the
wrong time to call circle. And,you know, I want to acknowledge
the bravery and courage it takesfor folks to make that call, to
to have that moment to say, youknow what, I actually do need
help in this moment. I can saymyself, I've experienced crisis.
(08:45):
I know what it's like to makethat call and have that feeling
of what you're going to bereceived. I've had family
members who've experiencedcrisis. What I would say and
what we talk about a lot as anorganization is don't wait to
get the help you need. Right?Something we talk a lot about.
We talk a lot about this on thepodcast is the word prevention.
(09:06):
And what does prevention mean?And I think for folks, as you're
nurturing your mental health,part of what we talk about is
learning to sort of understandthose early warning signs.
Right. And that's going to lookdifferent for each people.
For some, it might, you know, Inotice I'm not hanging out with
my friends. I don't want toanymore or I'm not sleeping as
well as I used to. I'm noteating healthy, nutritious
(09:28):
meals. And they start to noticeactually maybe I'm slipping into
feeling unwell. I think at thesame time, we sometimes have
that tendency to want to qualifyhow good or bad our mental
health is.
Right. We hear this sometimesfrom lived experience folks.
Well, I'm anxious, but I seewhat other people are going
through. It's not as bad asthat. So I'll wait until I'm as
(09:50):
anxious as somebody else, andthen I'll call.
And what I want folks to know isyou define a crisis in your life
and and what that feels like foryou is valid. And don't wait to
get the help you need and knowthat we understand how important
it is to make that call, howbrave it is to make that call.
(10:14):
And we will be waiting on theother end to listen to your
story and to support you ingetting the help you need.
Jessica Samuels (10:20):
And this is a circle is in six other
communities in BC right now,
Jamie Lloyd-Smith (10:24):
believe That's correct.
Jessica Samuels (10:25):
And so we're talking about a program that is
about to start here at CMHAKelowna, but you actually had
opportunity to visit anothercommunity at Witnesses. So talk
a little bit about the successesin that community and across the
world because this model, it'scalled Circle Here,
Jamie Lloyd-Smith (10:42):
but it's not necessarily new elsewhere. Yeah,
the model of what Circle is, isreally not a new concept. You
know, some of these programs,when you look in The United
States, for example, in Oregon,these concepts were developing
in the late 80s, which for uswho've been working in the
mental health field for a longtime have identified, you know,
(11:05):
people are in crisis and whatthey often don't need is an
enforcement perspective toenforce their way out of a
crisis. What they really need ismental health paramedics and
folks who are going tounderstand what that's like. We
are really lucky to be theseventh community, as you
mentioned.
Hopefully lucky number seven.And I think for us, that means
we can really learn from othercommunities who've done this
(11:28):
well. In my research, I wasreally lucky to go travel to
Victoria, who has a reallyrobust team, meet with the
people delivering the service,understand ways that they're
partnering with other socialservice organizations, tips
they've learned around how tomake people feel safe and
comfortable, and also how do wework with all the folks who make
(11:52):
up what we sometimes call thepublic safety continuum? Our
other first responders, RCMP,police. These are all folks that
still have an important role toplay, and we want Circle to be
part of that larger response.
Right.
Jessica Samuels (12:06):
And that was part of my next question is
where Circle fits into thatspectrum of mental health care
and supports within ourcommunities. So how does it fit
into that dynamic? What we'veoften seen is there's a gap in
sort of what might be availableon a
Jamie Lloyd-Smith (12:24):
hotline through a phone number where you
can chat with someone. And whatwe've heard again from voices
who've been through this. Andthen that next line is is 911.
And so for folks in the middlewho need that immediate sort of
care who are struggling, theydon't want to call 911. They
don't want that approach.
(12:45):
And so they're sort of left towait until things get worse, to
wait until it is an emergency,and then to make that call. So
circle is really the step beforethat. This could be feelings of
anxiety, of loss, what thatcrisis might look like, but
ultimately it's for folks whohave that need before they have
(13:07):
to call 911. So really, it'sactually an intervention and an
emergency prevention tool.
Jessica Samuels (13:12):
Right. And then from there, might be diverted or
navigated to another service inthat moment if they need it, or
perhaps some more long term partof their care plan?
Jamie Lloyd-Smith (13:24):
Absolutely. A really important part of Circle
is looking at how we connectpeople to the right support.
What I want people to know iswhen you call Circle, that's the
start of your journey. If youneed additional supports, our
team has over one hundred hoursof training and their own
experiences to help you navigatewhat those supports might look
(13:46):
like and find the best resourcesfor you. And in the case where
maybe it is an emergency andactually there is that safety to
the person, we're also going torefer to 911 to ensure that that
person is safe and work sort ofin lockstep with others
providing important service.
Jessica Samuels (14:03):
-Okay. And for folks who might be familiar with
some of the current services inour community, whether through
their own experiences or justbeing informed, how does this
differ from stuff that isexisting? So specifically, we
have the PACT folks or the PACTteam. Is a tweak of that? Will
that still exist?
Jamie Lloyd-Smith (14:24):
Maybe you can talk about the difference
between Circle and PACT. Yeah,so the PACT team in community,
that's the model of pairing anRCMP officer with a nurse. And
this was a significant stepforward in terms of the mental
health continuum of care. Whatreally distinguishes this,
(14:44):
though, is there's still thatpolice force present. So while
the nurse is there and toprovide that sort of support for
people who may need that, Circleis, again, that step before the
PACT team.
So it's that immediateintervention. And sometimes it's
(15:05):
intervening just so we don'thave to call police to de
escalate in that moment. Soreally, it's again that step
before PACT and then a 09:11call. So PACT will still be in
place. It's just a differentuse.
Absolutely right. And circle isis distinct and different in
that sense. Right. The teammakeup is different than what
(15:26):
you'd see on a PAC team. Alsothe response model is different.
And it's different becausethere's different needs and we
need that array of services.
Jessica Samuels (15:35):
What I appreciate about this and
knowing that this is coming downthe pipe is that it gives it's
another avenue for folks who arestruggling, but love the loved
ones when our loved ones arestruggling and you're sitting
there and you see that they'restruggling and you're trying to
understand how to help them. Youdon't know how to help them. And
(15:56):
you are like, Oh, do I call? DoI not call? What's going to
happen when I call?
And I say, people are not okayright now. A lot of people are
struggling and a lot of familiesare struggling. And I see this
for myself personally when Iheard about it as really filling
that gap and that warm welcomeand that warm response that will
(16:19):
kind of smooth the way dependingon what the next steps are.
Jamie Lloyd-Smith (16:23):
I think what you just shared is going to
resonate with so many people.There's a fear of what they're
going to experience if they calla certain number. Sometimes
there's not just a fear. There'sjust that burden of, am I going
to be on a wait list? Am I goingto have to call eight different
numbers to try to figure outwhat their resource is for me?
(16:45):
What makes me excited about thisprogram is that idea when people
are struggling, it's not callingto wait on a wait list. It's not
calling to sort of maybe get acall back in a week. You're
going to get help right away.We're going to meet you in that
moment and build that care plantogether, especially for
(17:06):
families who sometimes struggleand just knowing what that stuff
is, what that needs to looklike, and so desperately want to
help their loved one and justdon't know where to go to
provide that resource where theyknow that their loved one is
going to be treated with dignityand compassion, but also in a
voluntary manner is amazing.It's something we haven't seen
(17:30):
before.
Jessica Samuels (17:30):
This is a new program for CMHA Kelowna. It's
tested and tried in othercommunities around the world,
around the province, mentioned,under different names. But now
what we want to know is whenwill it be accessible here in
Kelowna? Because it's stillgetting off the ground. So when
will people be able to accessCircle?
Jamie Lloyd-Smith (17:49):
Yeah, we're excited to be launching in early
twenty twenty six. And so we'llbe sharing out through CMHC
Kelowna what that response lookslike, what that number is, when
you can call and really justtrying to eliminate those
barriers for people tounderstand how to access the
program. And we've been hearingfrom so many folks when can we
(18:11):
start calling? Because the needis there. And that's something
that we look forward to.
All right, Jamie, thank
Jessica Samuels (18:17):
you so much. Thank you. All right. Circle
through CMHA Kelowna will becoming in early twenty twenty
six. You can find out all theinformation.
We have some backgroundinformation about Circle that
you can find that on the A WayForward podcast page at
cmhacolona.org. If you havequestions about Circle or any
other episode, you can alwaysemail me at
(18:38):
awayforwardcmhacolona dot org.Until then, please do take good
care. This episode is supportedby Beam Credit Union With deep
roots in BC and a commitment toyour financial journey, Beam
proudly backs mental healthconversations that help build
stronger, healthier communities.
Hello, I'm Jessica Samuels. Welcome to A
(00:02):
Way Forward presented by BeamCredit Union. I'd like to
acknowledge that this podcasttakes place on the ancestral
traditional and unseated landsof the Okanagan Silic people.
Our topic today is about a newprogram to CMHA Kelowna. It
utilizes a mobile and communityled approach for mental health
services.
(00:23):
And my guest is the manager ofproject development here at CMHA
Kelowna, Jamie Lloyd Smith, andshe's going to tell us who this
program is for and how it works.Beam Credit Union is proud to
sponsor today's episode. Withdeep roots in BC and a
commitment to your financialjourney, Beam believes wellness,
mental and financial starts withsupport you can count on. Jamie,
(00:47):
thanks for being here. Let'sstart with a really easy
question.
What is Circle?
Jamie Lloyd-Smith (00:52):
Circle. It is a great question, though.
CIRCLE, the acronym is CRCL. Sowhat that stands for is Crisis
Response Community Led. So we'recalling it CIRCLE.
But really it's in the name. Sowe're thinking about how we
respond to crisis in community.And the way we want to do that
is through a community ledapproach. What does community
(01:12):
led approach mean? So for us asan organization at CMHA Kelowna,
we know the impact of thisservice.
You know, as an organization anda history of working with people
who've experienced mental healthchallenges, who may experience
mental illness, we know there'sa gap for people who may be
experiencing a mental healthcrisis, who don't know where to
(01:36):
go. And when they do reach outfor help, might be met with an
enforcement led approach. Itmight come with a police
officer, which isn't always theright service in that case. So
for us, it's a model of doingthis in community. And what that
looks like for us is everythingfrom the team makeup but how we
(01:56):
work with partners.
So something that's reallyawesome about this program is
it's made up of people who havea mental health background. So
that might be clinicians, thatcould be nurses, people with
that academic and theoreticalunderstanding of mental health,
but it also brings peers. Andpeers are people with lived
(02:18):
experience. They may have livedexperience of mental health
challenges. Maybe they've gonethrough crisis or they've
navigated the system.
They know what those challengeslook like. And they sort of
bring that perspective intocommunity at sort of that
grassroots level to reallysupport people in whatever they
might be feeling in that moment.
Jessica Samuels (02:38):
That lived experience or living peer
support experience is really afoundational element of many
things, particularly mentalhealth services. Why is that so
important? How does that impactthat support model for
individuals who are experiencingmental health challenges?
Jamie Lloyd-Smith (02:53):
I think as we do this work and we think about
that voice of lived experience,when we don't include it, we're
just going to get it wrong. Wereally are. For people who've
navigated the system, for peoplewho, at some point in their life
had had that challenge, theyneed to reach out for help, they
(03:14):
are the experts in terms of whatis going to work for them. I'm
proud as we've been developingthis team and bringing staff on
board with those diverseexperiences, they've been
telling us what we can do tosort of make sure we're
including the right supports andwhat that looks like for people.
I'll give you an exampleactually.
(03:34):
Recently, we were looking at ourphone system for Circle. And
what does this need to looklike? Who needs to be answering
on the other end? And our teamsaid right off the bat, I've
called crisis lines and I've hada robot answer the phone, and I
don't want that. I want a humanon the other end.
So including that livedexperience, we just know that
(03:55):
we're going to be talking topeople who get it, whose
experiences have shaped whattheir story looks like. And it's
a reminder for all of us thatanyone can experience a crisis.
Let's talk a little bit aboutthat because you touched on when
you call. So we know they're notgoing to get a robot. Walk us
through what will happen.
(04:16):
Like, how does Circle work?Yeah. So really, way Circle
works at its core, it is amobile response team. So this is
a service for anyone 13 yearsand up and really if you're the
person in crisis, can call, butyou can also call on behalf of a
family member, a loved one,maybe you're a neighbor. You can
(04:38):
either call or text this numberand what you're going be met
with is ultimately compassionatehuman on the other end who's
going to ask you thosequestions, understand where you,
what are you going through.
And what we want to provide isthat immediate in person
response. So a team will bedispatched and they'll come meet
(04:58):
you where you're at. So ifthat's your own home, maybe
that's a work place, maybeyou're at a community center,
they're going to come to you andmeet you on your terms. So a
critical foundation of Circle isthis is a consent based service.
The person in crisis is incharge of what their journey
looks like.
(05:19):
If you call on behalf of someoneand you show up and that person
in crisis isn't ready to talk,no problem. We'll come when you
are ready. But really, you getto define what that journey
looks like.
Jessica Samuels (05:31):
Okay. And that team that you mentioned does not
involve law enforcement, and itinvolves the folks who have the
kind of academic professionalexperience around mental health
supports or what the needs arefor the individuals in crisis
and peers. So I think theremight be this idea out there for
folks who haven't had to call ormaybe who folks have called and
(05:52):
saw something different that itcan be daunting. It can be scary
to have these mental healthfolks come because you called
and you're in crisis. Like, Ijust I can imagine there's this
vision in this head that eventhat in itself would prevent
people from calling.
(06:14):
So it's not going to look likethat. They're not what are they
going to look like? What willthey be wearing? I want details
here. And I'm asking becausespecific, I have been asked this
before about mental healthservices for folks who've
contacted me and needed help andcommunity.
They're like, look, you know, Idon't need
Jamie Lloyd-Smith (06:32):
a doctor and an officer showing up at my
door. So what does it look like?You know, it's a it's a great
question. And we hear the samething. Sometimes there's a
trauma with uniforms or or whatthat response might look like.
You're going to get two peoplewith empathy who care, who are
(06:53):
wearing clothes like any one ofus might be wearing and who are
going to sit down withcompassion and understand what
that experience is like for youin that moment. Ultimately,
they're going to be there tohelp you. I think what is really
beautiful about Circle is thatit's really up to that
individual what that story lookslike. Maybe in that moment, you
(07:17):
just need to have a listeningear and maybe you need someone
to help you build that careplan. And both of those
experiences are valid.
And what's unique about thisprogram, maybe comparatively to
hotline services, for example,is that human face to face
connection and building rapportwith people in such a beautiful
way.
Jessica Samuels (07:38):
You it's community at the circle. It's
it's it's community led meantfor folks who are experiencing
crisis experiencing a crisis.You just talked about scenarios
where it's it's your it's led bythe individual. They might just
want a listening ear or maybethey need something a little bit
more. Crisis is something thatis defined differently by the
(08:01):
person witnessing it orexperiencing it.
How do you know that you can orshould be calling this service?
And I use that language because,again, oftentimes people feel
like they're not in crisisenough. I can manage this. No,
if I get if I call somebody, I'mgoing to be taken into custody
(08:21):
or taken to
Jamie Lloyd-Smith (08:22):
the hospital. How do you know that it's the
right time to call circle?Ultimately, it is never the
wrong time to call circle. And,you know, I want to acknowledge
the bravery and courage it takesfor folks to make that call, to
to have that moment to say, youknow what, I actually do need
help in this moment. I can saymyself, I've experienced crisis.
(08:45):
I know what it's like to makethat call and have that feeling
of what you're going to bereceived. I've had family
members who've experiencedcrisis. What I would say and
what we talk about a lot as anorganization is don't wait to
get the help you need. Right?Something we talk a lot about.
We talk a lot about this on thepodcast is the word prevention.
(09:06):
And what does prevention mean?And I think for folks, as you're
nurturing your mental health,part of what we talk about is
learning to sort of understandthose early warning signs.
Right. And that's going to lookdifferent for each people.
For some, it might, you know, Inotice I'm not hanging out with
my friends. I don't want toanymore or I'm not sleeping as
well as I used to. I'm noteating healthy, nutritious
(09:28):
meals. And they start to noticeactually maybe I'm slipping into
feeling unwell. I think at thesame time, we sometimes have
that tendency to want to qualifyhow good or bad our mental
health is.
Right. We hear this sometimesfrom lived experience folks.
Well, I'm anxious, but I seewhat other people are going
through. It's not as bad asthat. So I'll wait until I'm as
(09:50):
anxious as somebody else, andthen I'll call.
And what I want folks to know isyou define a crisis in your life
and and what that feels like foryou is valid. And don't wait to
get the help you need and knowthat we understand how important
it is to make that call, howbrave it is to make that call.
(10:14):
And we will be waiting on theother end to listen to your
story and to support you ingetting the help you need.
Jessica Samuels (10:20):
And this is a circle is in six other
communities in BC right now,
Jamie Lloyd-Smith (10:24):
believe That's correct.
Jessica Samuels (10:25):
And so we're talking about a program that is
about to start here at CMHAKelowna, but you actually had
opportunity to visit anothercommunity at Witnesses. So talk
a little bit about the successesin that community and across the
world because this model, it'scalled Circle Here,
Jamie Lloyd-Smith (10:42):
but it's not necessarily new elsewhere. Yeah,
the model of what Circle is, isreally not a new concept. You
know, some of these programs,when you look in The United
States, for example, in Oregon,these concepts were developing
in the late 80s, which for uswho've been working in the
mental health field for a longtime have identified, you know,
(11:05):
people are in crisis and whatthey often don't need is an
enforcement perspective toenforce their way out of a
crisis. What they really need ismental health paramedics and
folks who are going tounderstand what that's like. We
are really lucky to be theseventh community, as you
mentioned.
Hopefully lucky number seven.And I think for us, that means
we can really learn from othercommunities who've done this
(11:28):
well. In my research, I wasreally lucky to go travel to
Victoria, who has a reallyrobust team, meet with the
people delivering the service,understand ways that they're
partnering with other socialservice organizations, tips
they've learned around how tomake people feel safe and
comfortable, and also how do wework with all the folks who make
(11:52):
up what we sometimes call thepublic safety continuum? Our
other first responders, RCMP,police. These are all folks that
still have an important role toplay, and we want Circle to be
part of that larger response.
Right.
Jessica Samuels (12:06):
And that was part of my next question is
where Circle fits into thatspectrum of mental health care
and supports within ourcommunities. So how does it fit
into that dynamic? What we'veoften seen is there's a gap in
sort of what might be availableon a
Jamie Lloyd-Smith (12:24):
hotline through a phone number where you
can chat with someone. And whatwe've heard again from voices
who've been through this. Andthen that next line is is 911.
And so for folks in the middlewho need that immediate sort of
care who are struggling, theydon't want to call 911. They
don't want that approach.
(12:45):
And so they're sort of left towait until things get worse, to
wait until it is an emergency,and then to make that call. So
circle is really the step beforethat. This could be feelings of
anxiety, of loss, what thatcrisis might look like, but
ultimately it's for folks whohave that need before they have
(13:07):
to call 911. So really, it'sactually an intervention and an
emergency prevention tool.
Jessica Samuels (13:12):
Right. And then from there, might be diverted or
navigated to another service inthat moment if they need it, or
perhaps some more long term partof their care plan?
Jamie Lloyd-Smith (13:24):
Absolutely. A really important part of Circle
is looking at how we connectpeople to the right support.
What I want people to know iswhen you call Circle, that's the
start of your journey. If youneed additional supports, our
team has over one hundred hoursof training and their own
experiences to help you navigatewhat those supports might look
(13:46):
like and find the best resourcesfor you. And in the case where
maybe it is an emergency andactually there is that safety to
the person, we're also going torefer to 911 to ensure that that
person is safe and work sort ofin lockstep with others
providing important service.
Jessica Samuels (14:03):
-Okay. And for folks who might be familiar with
some of the current services inour community, whether through
their own experiences or justbeing informed, how does this
differ from stuff that isexisting? So specifically, we
have the PACT folks or the PACTteam. Is a tweak of that? Will
that still exist?
Jamie Lloyd-Smith (14:24):
Maybe you can talk about the difference
between Circle and PACT. Yeah,so the PACT team in community,
that's the model of pairing anRCMP officer with a nurse. And
this was a significant stepforward in terms of the mental
health continuum of care. Whatreally distinguishes this,
(14:44):
though, is there's still thatpolice force present. So while
the nurse is there and toprovide that sort of support for
people who may need that, Circleis, again, that step before the
PACT team.
So it's that immediateintervention. And sometimes it's
(15:05):
intervening just so we don'thave to call police to de
escalate in that moment. Soreally, it's again that step
before PACT and then a 09:11call. So PACT will still be in
place. It's just a differentuse.
Absolutely right. And circle isis distinct and different in
that sense. Right. The teammakeup is different than what
(15:26):
you'd see on a PAC team. Alsothe response model is different.
And it's different becausethere's different needs and we
need that array of services.
Jessica Samuels (15:35):
What I appreciate about this and
knowing that this is coming downthe pipe is that it gives it's
another avenue for folks who arestruggling, but love the loved
ones when our loved ones arestruggling and you're sitting
there and you see that they'restruggling and you're trying to
understand how to help them. Youdon't know how to help them. And
(15:56):
you are like, Oh, do I call? DoI not call? What's going to
happen when I call?
And I say, people are not okayright now. A lot of people are
struggling and a lot of familiesare struggling. And I see this
for myself personally when Iheard about it as really filling
that gap and that warm welcomeand that warm response that will
(16:19):
kind of smooth the way dependingon what the next steps are.
Jamie Lloyd-Smith (16:23):
I think what you just shared is going to
resonate with so many people.There's a fear of what they're
going to experience if they calla certain number. Sometimes
there's not just a fear. There'sjust that burden of, am I going
to be on a wait list? Am I goingto have to call eight different
numbers to try to figure outwhat their resource is for me?
(16:45):
What makes me excited about thisprogram is that idea when people
are struggling, it's not callingto wait on a wait list. It's not
calling to sort of maybe get acall back in a week. You're
going to get help right away.We're going to meet you in that
moment and build that care plantogether, especially for
(17:06):
families who sometimes struggleand just knowing what that stuff
is, what that needs to looklike, and so desperately want to
help their loved one and justdon't know where to go to
provide that resource where theyknow that their loved one is
going to be treated with dignityand compassion, but also in a
voluntary manner is amazing.It's something we haven't seen
(17:30):
before.
Jessica Samuels (17:30):
This is a new program for CMHA Kelowna. It's
tested and tried in othercommunities around the world,
around the province, mentioned,under different names. But now
what we want to know is whenwill it be accessible here in
Kelowna? Because it's stillgetting off the ground. So when
will people be able to accessCircle?
Jamie Lloyd-Smith (17:49):
Yeah, we're excited to be launching in early
twenty twenty six. And so we'llbe sharing out through CMHC
Kelowna what that response lookslike, what that number is, when
you can call and really justtrying to eliminate those
barriers for people tounderstand how to access the
program. And we've been hearingfrom so many folks when can we
(18:11):
start calling? Because the needis there. And that's something
that we look forward to.
All right, Jamie, thank
Jessica Samuels (18:17):
you so much. Thank you. All right. Circle
through CMHA Kelowna will becoming in early twenty twenty
six. You can find out all theinformation.
We have some backgroundinformation about Circle that
you can find that on the A WayForward podcast page at
cmhacolona.org. If you havequestions about Circle or any
other episode, you can alwaysemail me at
(18:38):
awayforwardcmhacolona dot org.Until then, please do take good
care. This episode is supportedby Beam Credit Union With deep
roots in BC and a commitment toyour financial journey, Beam
proudly backs mental healthconversations that help build
stronger, healthier communities.
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