February 26, 2025 • 23 mins
Welcome to Season 2 of A Way Forward, presented by Beem Credit Union. In this episode, hosts Jessica Samuels and CMHA Kelowna CEO Mike Gawliuk discuss strategies for managing mental health during turbulent times. With a 24-hour news cycle, social media, and ongoing global events, many people feel overwhelmed, anxious, and uncertain. Jessica and Mike explore how our bodies react to stress and share practical tips for maintaining mental well-being in the face of ongoing uncertainty.
Key Discussion Points:
1. How Are We Coping in a Heavy World?
- Mike and Jessica discuss their own experiences with stress and uncertainty.
- Acknowledging the collective fatigue from ongoing global and local crises.
- The importance of checking in with ourselves and recognizing signs of distress.
2. The Impact of Constant Information Intake
- The human brain seeks information to create a sense of control, but too much exposure can be harmful.
- The physiological response to stress: fight-or-flight activation, increased adrenaline, and cortisol production.
- The concept of doomscrolling and how it can negatively reinforce anxiety and stress.
- The double-edged sword of seeking certainty through news consumption.
3. Managing Information Intake for Mental Well-Being
- Setting boundaries around news consumption: limiting screen time, turning off background news, and curating information sources.
- The benefits of reading news instead of watching video reports to reduce emotional impact.
- Establishing personal limits on conversations about distressing topics.
- Seeking alternative sources of joy and relaxation, such as nature, mindfulness, and exercise.
4. Recognizing When Stress Becomes Too Much
- How to identify when normal stress levels turn into something more serious.
- Signs to watch for: prolonged changes in appetite, sleep disturbances, mood swings, difficulty concentrating, and increased irritability.
- The importance of self-awareness and seeking support when needed.
5. Practical Steps for Mental Health Management
- Setting boundaries with news consumption: opting for daily email digests instead of real-time updates.
- Engaging in mindfulness and physical activities to reduce stress levels.
- Seeking social support and setting personal boundaries in conversations.
- Understanding when professional help might be necessary and how to access it.
Key Takeaways:
- It’s normal to feel overwhelmed by current events, but we can take control of how we engage with information.
- The physiological impact of chronic stress underscores the need for proactive mental health management.
- Simple adjustments—such as limiting news intake, practicing mindfulness, and recognizing stress signals—can significantly improve mental well-being.
- Seeking professional support is always an option if stress becomes overwhelming.
**Resources Mentioned:
Impacts of exposure to negative information
https://changemh.org/resources/news-consumption-and-your-mental-health/#:~:text=Exposure%20to%20negative%20events%20can,trigger%20a%20prolonged%20stress%20response.
https://mcpress.mayoclinic.org/mental-health/how-the-news-rewires-your-brain/
https://growtherapy.com/blog/is-news-bad-for-mental-health/
Fight or Flight Respon
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jessica Samuels (00:00):
Hello. I'm Jessica Samuels, and welcome to
A Way Forward presented by BeamCredit Union. I'd like to
acknowledge this podcast takesplace on the ancestral,
traditional, and unceded landsof the Okanagan Sillux people.
Our topic today is mental healthin a heavy world, and my co host
CMHA Kelowna CEO Mike Golic andI will talk about how you can
(00:22):
manage your mental health wheneverything around us just feels
turbulent. So, Mike, I'm gonnastart off with the question that
we all tend to ask ourselves aswe greet each other.
How are you?
Mike Gawliuk (00:38):
That's, that's a great question. Uh-oh. Yeah.
Exactly. Oh, here we go.
I would say, I'm a little bittired. Things in the world are a
little bit uncertain. It feelslike, you know, and we've talked
(00:59):
about this before. We made ourway through a pandemic, and we
sort of started to come out theother end sort of kind of. And,
we're now back in a place where,there's a lot of uncertainty in
the world, which is creating alot of stress for people.
(01:20):
Mhmm. And, I would say over thethe past few months, certainly
have, felt that stress, thatuncertainty, and and that lack
of control in regards to, youknow, your your direct influence
over some of the challenges thatwe're current currently
experiencing. So, I think as astime goes on, and we'll talk
(01:46):
more about this. I've turned theTV off. I'm not watching the
news very much at all these daysbecause of the negative impact
that it has, and that is makinga difference.
There's no doubt about that.Mhmm. On the same end, how are
you doing?
Jessica Samuels (02:01):
Ditto. You know, it's really interesting.
So when we, you know, weapproach this podcast and we've
we kind of have the the mentalhealth topics that we know we're
going to cover. There's thosethings that impact our mental
health. We've covered them.
We will cover more. And thenthere's these things that kind
of rise to the top as youscroll, as you watch change
(02:25):
channels, you talk to yourfriends, you talk to family
members. And I just was noticingthis theme of like, what the
heck people are going on? Andthen and then actually it was my
brother who, asked me, he'slike, so do you ever talk about
mental health in, like, thenews? And I said, no, maybe,
(02:51):
should I?
And then I saw a post on socialmedia from Harvard Business
Review that actually was a cutelittle graphic and said, how to
manage your mental health withthe news. And I said, okay. And
I really looked at how I wasfeeling and I'm the same. I'm
feeling a little bit better thanI have been, but I just feel
(03:12):
like I have been stuck in thisangst and uncertainty driven
angst.
Mike Gawliuk (03:20):
Yep.
Jessica Samuels (03:21):
And and, really, that's what we wanna
talk about today. So, you know,we talked about turbulent times,
and and and how they manifestfor everybody. You mentioned
something like, you know, thepandemic, and I feel like we're
we're in a time right now wherethere's things that are
happening across the world thathave a chance to negatively
(03:43):
impact or impact our personallives. And and as I was getting
ready and researching thisepisode, I said, you know,
that's really it's those thosebits and pieces that have the
opportunity to affect youpersonally that really get to
us. So that's what we're gonnathat's we're gonna dig into
(04:05):
today.
So hope you're ready for that.Yep. You are. So when we're
talking about those things, sowe're talking about political
turbulence. We're talking aboutnatural disasters.
And and and when as we go intothis, I want to use the term
news as a general term. I'm nothere to blame it on social media
(04:26):
or news outlets. What I'mtalking about is the taking in
of information, the essence ofthe definition of news. And it's
this 24 news cycle, socialmedia, television, and I have to
tell you even conversation withfriends that has me up here.
Mike Gawliuk (04:46):
Mhmm. Well, it it can feel like it's never ending.
Jessica Samuels (04:49):
Mhmm.
Mike Gawliuk (04:50):
Right? And and ultimately that you don't you
don't really get any reprievefrom it. I think as human
beings, like, we're we'rehardwired to get information,
and to try and understand what'staking place and to make sense
of things and and to try to get,some level of certainty. That's
(05:12):
a double edged sword, becausebecause on the one hand, more
information may, in fact, makeyou feel like you've got a sense
of what's going on or have itunder control. From a mental
health perspective and thepotential negative side of
things is, the stress that itcauses, and and how, it can make
(05:36):
someone's experience of mentalhealth, worse instead of better.
Jessica Samuels (05:40):
Mhmm. Mhmm. And and when we talk about those
personal impacts as well, it'sall of that's heightened. So you
referenced, some emotionalthings that our body can go
through. It's mental health,effects on mental health.
We're talk a little bit moreabout what the body goes through
because this is a thing, as theysay. This is this is a real
(06:02):
thing.
Mike Gawliuk (06:02):
It's a real thing. Yeah. I mean, certainly, how
news can impact us is it canresult in, fight or flight. And,
you know, it's it's not hundredsof years ago whereby, you know,
we're getting chased by Yeah. Bybears or lions, and that needs
(06:24):
to kick in in order for us tosurvive.
However, we haven't evolved thatmuch. And news and news in
particular that impacts usdirectly can have the same fight
or flight impact on us. And whathappens is, our sympathetic
(06:44):
nervous system goes intooverload. It releases
adrenaline. It it releases otherstress hormones, including
cortisol, which, ultimately,you're having a physiological
reaction, to to thatinformation.
And and the challenge with that,in, you know, in the long term
(07:07):
is, if that's not managed, thatlevel of stress and consistently
being in fight or flight canresult in ongoing and chronic,
physical health concerns aswell.
Jessica Samuels (07:19):
It's interesting to me that that
fight or flight, like youmentioned, is coming up from,
you know, that instinct, thatbasic instinct for us, which
came from, you know, live ordie, eat or don't eat, you know,
be eaten by, you know, any kindof predator. And and we're
talking about now a news orinformation source that doesn't
have that actualized immediatethreat, but it's still kind of
(07:45):
it, not kind of, it's stilleliciting that response in us.
And we're in this really viciouscycle because we're seeking out
this information so that we canfeel more certain about the
world. But it's the informationthat's causing us to get this
high response.
Mike Gawliuk (08:06):
Well, and there's another physical, element to
this too. Right? And, as we seekout information, we can
ultimately get a surge ofdopamine, which means that we go
back and we seek out thatinformation again and seek out
that information again. And,ultimately, that can become like
a negative reinforcing loop, andit's something, that we do,
(08:30):
certainly unintentionally. Butin our in our search for
certainty, in our in our searchfor understanding, there are
things that that we do that, dothe exact opposite and couldn't
be harmful for us.
Jessica Samuels (08:44):
Is this like where doomscrolling came in?
Like, somehow, that hit ofdopamine that you mentioned is
where you just can't turn awayfrom any of the headline or, you
know, that you're you're drivingdown the road and you you see
the the police lights and and,you know, the ambulance and the
fire truck, and you know it'snot gonna be good, but it you
(09:04):
you it's all you can do to notslow down and look or or or then
go to the headlines and see whathappens. Like, this it's it's an
interesting phenomena that Ithink has talked has been talked
more about post pandemic.
Mike Gawliuk (09:18):
I think I think so for sure. I mean, I think in
part with the pandemic, ofcourse, how we communicated with
each other, changed. Right? Theuse of, you know, our devices
and texting and those kinds ofthings, like, you know, you get
a text, there's a ding, there'sa hit of dopamine right there.
Right?
Jessica Samuels (09:38):
Mhmm.
Mike Gawliuk (09:38):
And it reinforces, by sending that response and
getting another one, that thiscontinues to build. And and and
it's it's a it's a world that welive in, and it's a reality that
we face right now for sure.
Jessica Samuels (09:53):
Mhmm. Okay. So, you know, I'm feeling it. The
folks in my network are feelingit. You're feeling it.
I'm I I I feel like we're notalone in this. And I think
recognizing that I think what Iwanted to do here today is
acknowledge to folks that thisis a very real feeling. It's
okay that we're all having. Andactually it's not just a
(10:17):
feeling. We're actually having aphysiological response and to
recognize that.
And so, of course, when we getto this point, we want to say,
how best can we manage this?Because this doesn't feel good.
I mean, before we get to thatpart, I wouldn't mind going back
to what you had talked about.Like, it can't be good for our
bodies overall to be operatingin this mode for any length of
(10:41):
time. Like, you know, I'm sure Ifeel like and I don't want to
catastrophize anything, but I'mreally feeling like in the
world, we've just been bracingfor uncertainty since, you know,
2020, March thirteenth '20 '20.
And I wonder if this is alsolike an echo response that we're
(11:03):
still kind of coming off thisfive four or five years later.
Mike Gawliuk (11:09):
Well, it's certainly it's certainly a
learned response. There's nodoubt about that. I think it's,
it's a physiological response toa perceived threat. There's,
there's no doubt about thatwhatsoever. Mhmm.
There's lots of similaritiesback to to 2,000. So we've
(11:30):
certainly, learned how torespond and react to things. And
and I think, ultimately, it'sabsolutely normal. It's a normal
human physiological response.How we manage that response
Yeah.
Is, I mean, key in terms ofchronic stress not turning into
(11:54):
disease, uncertainty and stressnot becoming, you know, a
diagnosed mental illness. Andand there are things that we can
do to try to manage ourselves inthe face of that.
Jessica Samuels (12:09):
Right. Okay. So let's let's focus on that now
because, you know, in that inthat vein of thought where if we
feel like we've kind of been inand out of this for a a few
years now, we might almost runthe risk of feeling like this is
how things should be or are areokay to be right now.
Mike Gawliuk (12:26):
Mhmm.
Jessica Samuels (12:26):
And as we've indicated, it can do some real
damage, mentally and and and andphysically. So what's the first
step in managing this? I canimagine to say to to recognize
that you're having theseresponses. You're scrolling.
You're reading a headline.
You're hearing a friend, and younotice this fight or flight, you
know, angst rise up. Like, walkus through kind of what what we
(12:50):
have to do to manage this.
Mike Gawliuk (12:51):
Well, I I think before you can take action, you
have to be aware that somethingis taking place. So, part of it
is noticing what's going on foryou. Like, how are you feeling.
Right? Like, are you feelingstressed?
How does that how does that feelultimately in your body? Are
there friends that are makingcomments, around how you're
(13:11):
showing up different?
Jessica Samuels (13:13):
Mhmm. Mhmm.
Mike Gawliuk (13:14):
Are you are you consistently, either scrolling
Mhmm. Through the headlines oris the TV on in the background
and the news is going, twentyfour seven? Right? I think it's
it's a matter of payingattention and and being aware.
Right.
And and as we identify some ofthose signs and and identify
(13:35):
what's taking place, thenultimately, there's some actions
that we can we can take on.
Jessica Samuels (13:40):
Right. And you mentioned a few of them. We can
talk about that off the top andeven what you're doing. One of
them is, you said recognizesrecognizing that you probably
shouldn't be feeling this way.It's not good to feel this way.
So then what's the next step?And you mentioned yourself
limiting the taking in thatinformation.
Mike Gawliuk (14:00):
Yeah. Over the last little while, and I can't
say really what's, what's drivenit, but I just think I just got
tired of of the same thing overand over and and the doom and
the rest of it and and neededjust to take a break. Mhmm.
Like, it, continuing to see itwasn't good. Mhmm.
(14:24):
My stress level certainly hadgone up, and I would notice that
physically. I have a friend whoI would I totally give him
credit because he, he struggleswith a diagnosed mental illness,
and he has struggled for anumber of years And, through the
(14:45):
course of the fall, as we wentthrough a provincial election,
as we went through, the electionin The United States, we'd have
conversations. And he would seta boundary, and he'd say,
listen. Over the course of time,I've come to learn that this
isn't good for me. And Iruminate, and I can't stop
(15:08):
thinking about it.
And so making the choice not tohave this conversation, which
was, like, groundbreaking, andand I was really proud, of my
friend having seen him strugglethrough a lot of things in his
life, and and he had create hehad developed that level of
awareness.
Jessica Samuels (15:27):
Mhmm.
Mike Gawliuk (15:28):
What what do you do when when you're not doing
those things? Well, we get intosome of the things we always
talk about. Right? So,mindfulness, practicing
mindfulness, physical activity,going outside, getting some
fresh air. Like, those are allthings that we can do to, take
(15:50):
care of ourselves physicallyand, sort of remove ourselves
from, the the negativity in thenews that that comes with
Jessica Samuels (16:00):
that. Right. Yeah. Wow. So your friend really
set a boundary.
And and I appreciate that thatconversation because, you know,
I can I can say, well, I'm onlygonna look at my phone for this
long? I'm only going to, and wehave at home. It was just by
default. We always had a twentyfour hour news station on in the
background as we made dinner,and I could just tell feel
(16:22):
myself. And it wasn't even itwasn't even the information that
they were sharing.
It was the sound of thatparticular was starting to
really just put me in a irksomemood. And and and so you can
manage that. And then you do allthe things, and then you go to
work the next day or you hangout with your friends, and
(16:42):
they're like, oh, did you hearit? And I'm like, no. I've just
managed to work my way throughthis.
Mike Gawliuk (16:48):
Now I'm thinking we may have established, because
I remember back to the the onearound the holidays. If
Jessica's in an irksome mood, gooutside for
Jessica Samuels (16:59):
a while. Yeah. It's you know? Which has proven
can prove difficult in thewinter months and that's a whole
other episode.
Mike Gawliuk (17:07):
It can result in all sorts of other things. Yeah.
Yeah. I
Jessica Samuels (17:09):
have a little exercise room downstairs away
from people. But, yeah. Yeah. Gooutside and, mindfulness and all
those pieces. But then there'sthere's some other things too
that I that that that I've beenpracticing.
So not just default having thethe TV on, first of all, or the
TV to news on. But then, youknow, you go back to that idea
(17:31):
that you wanna be informed. Idon't wanna put my head in the
sand because I don't want to becaught off guard by some other
craziness. So one of the thingsthat that I was doing is signing
up for, like, news alerts. But II just wanna asterisk this.
(17:52):
Not the phone jump out at you.Oh my goodness. This is
happening news alerts. Just oldschool email, like, hey. When
you're ready to look at this,have a look at it.
Yeah. And that's exactly whathappens. I see that I have an
email. I see it's from variousnews outlets. I may or may not
look at the headline, and then Imay or may not, you know, click
(18:15):
to read more.
And and this has been reallyhelpful because I feel like I
can be informed because I liketo feel like I'm informed, but
it feels like it's more on mytime.
Mike Gawliuk (18:28):
Sure.
Jessica Samuels (18:28):
So and I and and through the research with
this, I've actually, there'ssome discussion about reading
the news. Mhmm. Like like
Mike Gawliuk (18:40):
Versus watching.
Jessica Samuels (18:45):
Difference. Yeah.
Mike Gawliuk (18:45):
Yeah. The difference it can have in terms
of your response. I, yeah, Ifound it quite surprising as
well.
Jessica Samuels (18:50):
Yes. So so the idea of being read it as opposed
to watching it because the thethe watching is that is that
visual piece that we are alltrained to be incorporated that
to to kind of lean into, isactually, again, that piece
that's that's doing us harm.
Mike Gawliuk (19:05):
Well, and there was one study that was
highlighted as we prepped forthis, which showed that, like,
within fourteen minutes ofwatching the news, people
started to have symptoms startto show. Right? Which is, you
know, cause for concern.
Jessica Samuels (19:24):
I'm having symptoms just by you telling me
that I've got fourteen. I feellike I should put a little timer
on and be like Yeah. Like acountdown.
Mike Gawliuk (19:30):
Yeah. Yep. When you hit thirteen
Jessica Samuels (19:33):
Yeah.
Mike Gawliuk (19:34):
You're good. Don't let it get to fifteen.
Jessica Samuels (19:37):
Don't get let to fifteen. Go for a walk.
Mike Gawliuk (19:38):
It'll get irksome. And then watch out.
Jessica Samuels (19:42):
Well and and and adding levity is important
too. So some some good tipsthere in terms of managing, your
information intake. How do weknow, Mike, when it's it's gone
to be too much? So how do I knowwhen, you know, my walk in my
neighborhood or some mindfulnessor yoga or or or journaling, is
(20:04):
is not gonna cut it in terms ofmanaging my anxiety, my stress
and and leading into depressionwhen it comes to these uncertain
times.
Mike Gawliuk (20:14):
Yeah. Well, I mean, you're gonna notice
changes that are prolonged.Right? We've talked about
depression before, and you lookat things like, you know,
appetite, and whether there's asignificant change there, sleep,
mood, like irritability, lowmood, the inability to focus.
(20:39):
I've noticed that that I've hadsome of that going on recently,
and I don't think it's just dueto my age.
So there's a number of physicalsymptoms. The part that we need
to pay attention to is, again,here and there, that's normal.
When they become a repetitivepattern, when they start to show
up for periods of time, and whenthey start to negatively impact
(21:02):
your day to day functioning,that's probably the time that
you wanna consider, looking atalternatives that that go
beyond, you know, themindfulness and the going
outside, and that can include,you know, speaking to a
professional.
Jessica Samuels (21:18):
And you mentioned off the top as well if
you're somebody who alreadystruggles or experiences mental
illness, depression, these thistype of of what we've been
talking about today, these newcycles, this information piece,
you have a higher likelihoodalso of being impacted.
Mike Gawliuk (21:36):
Yeah. I think I I mean, in that case, I think one
of the things to be aware of,and this comes back to self
awareness, but what are some ofthe key triggers? Like, what are
those things that you just know,if you see or experience, are
going to be the ones that aregoing to potentially, set things
off and then and then look forand try to plan to to address
(21:59):
those, as they come up.
Jessica Samuels (22:01):
Right. Okay. So self awareness is really key in
all of this. But certainlywhenever we're talking about
mental health, concerns orthings that can trigger it. But
particularly with this on thatconstant information source,
just being really self aware ofhow you're taking it in and how
you're feeling.
Mike Gawliuk (22:16):
Yep. Yep. For sure. And then one of the things
that gets talked about isembracing optimism in your life.
Ah, yes.
Right? Whether that's withfriends, whether that's with
family. What what are some ofthe things that bring you joy?
Mhmm. And to, to do some ofthose things.
Jessica Samuels (22:37):
Mhmm.
Mike Gawliuk (22:38):
Because they definitely can, help in terms of
making you feel better through,what can be really trying times.
Mhmm.
Jessica Samuels (22:48):
You know, it just when you said that, it got
me thinking about because I'malways thinking about another
episodes. You know, that idea ofjoy or fun and, like, as adults,
we don't like playing. Yeah.Right? You know, as kids, you
know, like, go in your room andplay.
Go outside and play or whatever.And adults, you know, maybe we
need a bit more of that. Anotheranother episode topic for
another time.
Mike Gawliuk (23:06):
I think we need a whole lot more of that.
Jessica Samuels (23:08):
Thanks, Mike.
Mike Gawliuk (23:09):
Thank you.
Jessica Samuels (23:10):
Beam Credit Union supports mental health
initiatives across BritishColumbia because caring for each
other builds stronger, moreconnected communities. United as
one, Beam's founding creditunions now serve 190,000 members
across BC.
Hello. I'm Jessica Samuels, and welcome to
A Way Forward presented by BeamCredit Union. I'd like to
acknowledge this podcast takesplace on the ancestral,
traditional, and unceded landsof the Okanagan Sillux people.
Our topic today is mental healthin a heavy world, and my co host
CMHA Kelowna CEO Mike Golic andI will talk about how you can
(00:22):
manage your mental health wheneverything around us just feels
turbulent. So, Mike, I'm gonnastart off with the question that
we all tend to ask ourselves aswe greet each other.
How are you?
Mike Gawliuk (00:38):
That's, that's a great question. Uh-oh. Yeah.
Exactly. Oh, here we go.
I would say, I'm a little bittired. Things in the world are a
little bit uncertain. It feelslike, you know, and we've talked
(00:59):
about this before. We made ourway through a pandemic, and we
sort of started to come out theother end sort of kind of. And,
we're now back in a place where,there's a lot of uncertainty in
the world, which is creating alot of stress for people.
(01:20):
Mhmm. And, I would say over thethe past few months, certainly
have, felt that stress, thatuncertainty, and and that lack
of control in regards to, youknow, your your direct influence
over some of the challenges thatwe're current currently
experiencing. So, I think as astime goes on, and we'll talk
(01:46):
more about this. I've turned theTV off. I'm not watching the
news very much at all these daysbecause of the negative impact
that it has, and that is makinga difference.
There's no doubt about that.Mhmm. On the same end, how are
you doing?
Jessica Samuels (02:01):
Ditto. You know, it's really interesting.
So when we, you know, weapproach this podcast and we've
we kind of have the the mentalhealth topics that we know we're
going to cover. There's thosethings that impact our mental
health. We've covered them.
We will cover more. And thenthere's these things that kind
of rise to the top as youscroll, as you watch change
(02:25):
channels, you talk to yourfriends, you talk to family
members. And I just was noticingthis theme of like, what the
heck people are going on? Andthen and then actually it was my
brother who, asked me, he'slike, so do you ever talk about
mental health in, like, thenews? And I said, no, maybe,
(02:51):
should I?
And then I saw a post on socialmedia from Harvard Business
Review that actually was a cutelittle graphic and said, how to
manage your mental health withthe news. And I said, okay. And
I really looked at how I wasfeeling and I'm the same. I'm
feeling a little bit better thanI have been, but I just feel
(03:12):
like I have been stuck in thisangst and uncertainty driven
angst.
Mike Gawliuk (03:20):
Yep.
Jessica Samuels (03:21):
And and, really, that's what we wanna
talk about today. So, you know,we talked about turbulent times,
and and and how they manifestfor everybody. You mentioned
something like, you know, thepandemic, and I feel like we're
we're in a time right now wherethere's things that are
happening across the world thathave a chance to negatively
(03:43):
impact or impact our personallives. And and as I was getting
ready and researching thisepisode, I said, you know,
that's really it's those thosebits and pieces that have the
opportunity to affect youpersonally that really get to
us. So that's what we're gonnathat's we're gonna dig into
(04:05):
today.
So hope you're ready for that.Yep. You are. So when we're
talking about those things, sowe're talking about political
turbulence. We're talking aboutnatural disasters.
And and and when as we go intothis, I want to use the term
news as a general term. I'm nothere to blame it on social media
(04:26):
or news outlets. What I'mtalking about is the taking in
of information, the essence ofthe definition of news. And it's
this 24 news cycle, socialmedia, television, and I have to
tell you even conversation withfriends that has me up here.
Mike Gawliuk (04:46):
Mhmm. Well, it it can feel like it's never ending.
Jessica Samuels (04:49):
Mhmm.
Mike Gawliuk (04:50):
Right? And and ultimately that you don't you
don't really get any reprievefrom it. I think as human
beings, like, we're we'rehardwired to get information,
and to try and understand what'staking place and to make sense
of things and and to try to get,some level of certainty. That's
(05:12):
a double edged sword, becausebecause on the one hand, more
information may, in fact, makeyou feel like you've got a sense
of what's going on or have itunder control. From a mental
health perspective and thepotential negative side of
things is, the stress that itcauses, and and how, it can make
(05:36):
someone's experience of mentalhealth, worse instead of better.
Jessica Samuels (05:40):
Mhmm. Mhmm. And and when we talk about those
personal impacts as well, it'sall of that's heightened. So you
referenced, some emotionalthings that our body can go
through. It's mental health,effects on mental health.
We're talk a little bit moreabout what the body goes through
because this is a thing, as theysay. This is this is a real
(06:02):
thing.
Mike Gawliuk (06:02):
It's a real thing. Yeah. I mean, certainly, how
news can impact us is it canresult in, fight or flight. And,
you know, it's it's not hundredsof years ago whereby, you know,
we're getting chased by Yeah. Bybears or lions, and that needs
(06:24):
to kick in in order for us tosurvive.
However, we haven't evolved thatmuch. And news and news in
particular that impacts usdirectly can have the same fight
or flight impact on us. And whathappens is, our sympathetic
(06:44):
nervous system goes intooverload. It releases
adrenaline. It it releases otherstress hormones, including
cortisol, which, ultimately,you're having a physiological
reaction, to to thatinformation.
And and the challenge with that,in, you know, in the long term
(07:07):
is, if that's not managed, thatlevel of stress and consistently
being in fight or flight canresult in ongoing and chronic,
physical health concerns aswell.
Jessica Samuels (07:19):
It's interesting to me that that
fight or flight, like youmentioned, is coming up from,
you know, that instinct, thatbasic instinct for us, which
came from, you know, live ordie, eat or don't eat, you know,
be eaten by, you know, any kindof predator. And and we're
talking about now a news orinformation source that doesn't
have that actualized immediatethreat, but it's still kind of
(07:45):
it, not kind of, it's stilleliciting that response in us.
And we're in this really viciouscycle because we're seeking out
this information so that we canfeel more certain about the
world. But it's the informationthat's causing us to get this
high response.
Mike Gawliuk (08:06):
Well, and there's another physical, element to
this too. Right? And, as we seekout information, we can
ultimately get a surge ofdopamine, which means that we go
back and we seek out thatinformation again and seek out
that information again. And,ultimately, that can become like
a negative reinforcing loop, andit's something, that we do,
(08:30):
certainly unintentionally. Butin our in our search for
certainty, in our in our searchfor understanding, there are
things that that we do that, dothe exact opposite and couldn't
be harmful for us.
Jessica Samuels (08:44):
Is this like where doomscrolling came in?
Like, somehow, that hit ofdopamine that you mentioned is
where you just can't turn awayfrom any of the headline or, you
know, that you're you're drivingdown the road and you you see
the the police lights and and,you know, the ambulance and the
fire truck, and you know it'snot gonna be good, but it you
(09:04):
you it's all you can do to notslow down and look or or or then
go to the headlines and see whathappens. Like, this it's it's an
interesting phenomena that Ithink has talked has been talked
more about post pandemic.
Mike Gawliuk (09:18):
I think I think so for sure. I mean, I think in
part with the pandemic, ofcourse, how we communicated with
each other, changed. Right? Theuse of, you know, our devices
and texting and those kinds ofthings, like, you know, you get
a text, there's a ding, there'sa hit of dopamine right there.
Right?
Jessica Samuels (09:38):
Mhmm.
Mike Gawliuk (09:38):
And it reinforces, by sending that response and
getting another one, that thiscontinues to build. And and and
it's it's a it's a world that welive in, and it's a reality that
we face right now for sure.
Jessica Samuels (09:53):
Mhmm. Okay. So, you know, I'm feeling it. The
folks in my network are feelingit. You're feeling it.
I'm I I I feel like we're notalone in this. And I think
recognizing that I think what Iwanted to do here today is
acknowledge to folks that thisis a very real feeling. It's
okay that we're all having. Andactually it's not just a
(10:17):
feeling. We're actually having aphysiological response and to
recognize that.
And so, of course, when we getto this point, we want to say,
how best can we manage this?Because this doesn't feel good.
I mean, before we get to thatpart, I wouldn't mind going back
to what you had talked about.Like, it can't be good for our
bodies overall to be operatingin this mode for any length of
(10:41):
time. Like, you know, I'm sure Ifeel like and I don't want to
catastrophize anything, but I'mreally feeling like in the
world, we've just been bracingfor uncertainty since, you know,
2020, March thirteenth '20 '20.
And I wonder if this is alsolike an echo response that we're
(11:03):
still kind of coming off thisfive four or five years later.
Mike Gawliuk (11:09):
Well, it's certainly it's certainly a
learned response. There's nodoubt about that. I think it's,
it's a physiological response toa perceived threat. There's,
there's no doubt about thatwhatsoever. Mhmm.
There's lots of similaritiesback to to 2,000. So we've
(11:30):
certainly, learned how torespond and react to things. And
and I think, ultimately, it'sabsolutely normal. It's a normal
human physiological response.How we manage that response
Yeah.
Is, I mean, key in terms ofchronic stress not turning into
(11:54):
disease, uncertainty and stressnot becoming, you know, a
diagnosed mental illness. Andand there are things that we can
do to try to manage ourselves inthe face of that.
Jessica Samuels (12:09):
Right. Okay. So let's let's focus on that now
because, you know, in that inthat vein of thought where if we
feel like we've kind of been inand out of this for a a few
years now, we might almost runthe risk of feeling like this is
how things should be or are areokay to be right now.
Mike Gawliuk (12:26):
Mhmm.
Jessica Samuels (12:26):
And as we've indicated, it can do some real
damage, mentally and and and andphysically. So what's the first
step in managing this? I canimagine to say to to recognize
that you're having theseresponses. You're scrolling.
You're reading a headline.
You're hearing a friend, and younotice this fight or flight, you
know, angst rise up. Like, walkus through kind of what what we
(12:50):
have to do to manage this.
Mike Gawliuk (12:51):
Well, I I think before you can take action, you
have to be aware that somethingis taking place. So, part of it
is noticing what's going on foryou. Like, how are you feeling.
Right? Like, are you feelingstressed?
How does that how does that feelultimately in your body? Are
there friends that are makingcomments, around how you're
(13:11):
showing up different?
Jessica Samuels (13:13):
Mhmm. Mhmm.
Mike Gawliuk (13:14):
Are you are you consistently, either scrolling
Mhmm. Through the headlines oris the TV on in the background
and the news is going, twentyfour seven? Right? I think it's
it's a matter of payingattention and and being aware.
Right.
And and as we identify some ofthose signs and and identify
(13:35):
what's taking place, thenultimately, there's some actions
that we can we can take on.
Jessica Samuels (13:40):
Right. And you mentioned a few of them. We can
talk about that off the top andeven what you're doing. One of
them is, you said recognizesrecognizing that you probably
shouldn't be feeling this way.It's not good to feel this way.
So then what's the next step?And you mentioned yourself
limiting the taking in thatinformation.
Mike Gawliuk (14:00):
Yeah. Over the last little while, and I can't
say really what's, what's drivenit, but I just think I just got
tired of of the same thing overand over and and the doom and
the rest of it and and neededjust to take a break. Mhmm.
Like, it, continuing to see itwasn't good. Mhmm.
(14:24):
My stress level certainly hadgone up, and I would notice that
physically. I have a friend whoI would I totally give him
credit because he, he struggleswith a diagnosed mental illness,
and he has struggled for anumber of years And, through the
(14:45):
course of the fall, as we wentthrough a provincial election,
as we went through, the electionin The United States, we'd have
conversations. And he would seta boundary, and he'd say,
listen. Over the course of time,I've come to learn that this
isn't good for me. And Iruminate, and I can't stop
(15:08):
thinking about it.
And so making the choice not tohave this conversation, which
was, like, groundbreaking, andand I was really proud, of my
friend having seen him strugglethrough a lot of things in his
life, and and he had create hehad developed that level of
awareness.
Jessica Samuels (15:27):
Mhmm.
Mike Gawliuk (15:28):
What what do you do when when you're not doing
those things? Well, we get intosome of the things we always
talk about. Right? So,mindfulness, practicing
mindfulness, physical activity,going outside, getting some
fresh air. Like, those are allthings that we can do to, take
(15:50):
care of ourselves physicallyand, sort of remove ourselves
from, the the negativity in thenews that that comes with
Jessica Samuels (16:00):
that. Right. Yeah. Wow. So your friend really
set a boundary.
And and I appreciate that thatconversation because, you know,
I can I can say, well, I'm onlygonna look at my phone for this
long? I'm only going to, and wehave at home. It was just by
default. We always had a twentyfour hour news station on in the
background as we made dinner,and I could just tell feel
(16:22):
myself. And it wasn't even itwasn't even the information that
they were sharing.
It was the sound of thatparticular was starting to
really just put me in a irksomemood. And and and so you can
manage that. And then you do allthe things, and then you go to
work the next day or you hangout with your friends, and
(16:42):
they're like, oh, did you hearit? And I'm like, no. I've just
managed to work my way throughthis.
Mike Gawliuk (16:48):
Now I'm thinking we may have established, because
I remember back to the the onearound the holidays. If
Jessica's in an irksome mood, gooutside for
Jessica Samuels (16:59):
a while. Yeah. It's you know? Which has proven
can prove difficult in thewinter months and that's a whole
other episode.
Mike Gawliuk (17:07):
It can result in all sorts of other things. Yeah.
Yeah. I
Jessica Samuels (17:09):
have a little exercise room downstairs away
from people. But, yeah. Yeah. Gooutside and, mindfulness and all
those pieces. But then there'sthere's some other things too
that I that that that I've beenpracticing.
So not just default having thethe TV on, first of all, or the
TV to news on. But then, youknow, you go back to that idea
(17:31):
that you wanna be informed. Idon't wanna put my head in the
sand because I don't want to becaught off guard by some other
craziness. So one of the thingsthat that I was doing is signing
up for, like, news alerts. But II just wanna asterisk this.
(17:52):
Not the phone jump out at you.Oh my goodness. This is
happening news alerts. Just oldschool email, like, hey. When
you're ready to look at this,have a look at it.
Yeah. And that's exactly whathappens. I see that I have an
email. I see it's from variousnews outlets. I may or may not
look at the headline, and then Imay or may not, you know, click
(18:15):
to read more.
And and this has been reallyhelpful because I feel like I
can be informed because I liketo feel like I'm informed, but
it feels like it's more on mytime.
Mike Gawliuk (18:28):
Sure.
Jessica Samuels (18:28):
So and I and and through the research with
this, I've actually, there'ssome discussion about reading
the news. Mhmm. Like like
Mike Gawliuk (18:40):
Versus watching.
Jessica Samuels (18:45):
Difference. Yeah.
Mike Gawliuk (18:45):
Yeah. The difference it can have in terms
of your response. I, yeah, Ifound it quite surprising as
well.
Jessica Samuels (18:50):
Yes. So so the idea of being read it as opposed
to watching it because the thethe watching is that is that
visual piece that we are alltrained to be incorporated that
to to kind of lean into, isactually, again, that piece
that's that's doing us harm.
Mike Gawliuk (19:05):
Well, and there was one study that was
highlighted as we prepped forthis, which showed that, like,
within fourteen minutes ofwatching the news, people
started to have symptoms startto show. Right? Which is, you
know, cause for concern.
Jessica Samuels (19:24):
I'm having symptoms just by you telling me
that I've got fourteen. I feellike I should put a little timer
on and be like Yeah. Like acountdown.
Mike Gawliuk (19:30):
Yeah. Yep. When you hit thirteen
Jessica Samuels (19:33):
Yeah.
Mike Gawliuk (19:34):
You're good. Don't let it get to fifteen.
Jessica Samuels (19:37):
Don't get let to fifteen. Go for a walk.
Mike Gawliuk (19:38):
It'll get irksome. And then watch out.
Jessica Samuels (19:42):
Well and and and adding levity is important
too. So some some good tipsthere in terms of managing, your
information intake. How do weknow, Mike, when it's it's gone
to be too much? So how do I knowwhen, you know, my walk in my
neighborhood or some mindfulnessor yoga or or or journaling, is
(20:04):
is not gonna cut it in terms ofmanaging my anxiety, my stress
and and leading into depressionwhen it comes to these uncertain
times.
Mike Gawliuk (20:14):
Yeah. Well, I mean, you're gonna notice
changes that are prolonged.Right? We've talked about
depression before, and you lookat things like, you know,
appetite, and whether there's asignificant change there, sleep,
mood, like irritability, lowmood, the inability to focus.
(20:39):
I've noticed that that I've hadsome of that going on recently,
and I don't think it's just dueto my age.
So there's a number of physicalsymptoms. The part that we need
to pay attention to is, again,here and there, that's normal.
When they become a repetitivepattern, when they start to show
up for periods of time, and whenthey start to negatively impact
(21:02):
your day to day functioning,that's probably the time that
you wanna consider, looking atalternatives that that go
beyond, you know, themindfulness and the going
outside, and that can include,you know, speaking to a
professional.
Jessica Samuels (21:18):
And you mentioned off the top as well if
you're somebody who alreadystruggles or experiences mental
illness, depression, these thistype of of what we've been
talking about today, these newcycles, this information piece,
you have a higher likelihoodalso of being impacted.
Mike Gawliuk (21:36):
Yeah. I think I I mean, in that case, I think one
of the things to be aware of,and this comes back to self
awareness, but what are some ofthe key triggers? Like, what are
those things that you just know,if you see or experience, are
going to be the ones that aregoing to potentially, set things
off and then and then look forand try to plan to to address
(21:59):
those, as they come up.
Jessica Samuels (22:01):
Right. Okay. So self awareness is really key in
all of this. But certainlywhenever we're talking about
mental health, concerns orthings that can trigger it. But
particularly with this on thatconstant information source,
just being really self aware ofhow you're taking it in and how
you're feeling.
Mike Gawliuk (22:16):
Yep. Yep. For sure. And then one of the things
that gets talked about isembracing optimism in your life.
Ah, yes.
Right? Whether that's withfriends, whether that's with
family. What what are some ofthe things that bring you joy?
Mhmm. And to, to do some ofthose things.
Jessica Samuels (22:37):
Mhmm.
Mike Gawliuk (22:38):
Because they definitely can, help in terms of
making you feel better through,what can be really trying times.
Mhmm.
Jessica Samuels (22:48):
You know, it just when you said that, it got
me thinking about because I'malways thinking about another
episodes. You know, that idea ofjoy or fun and, like, as adults,
we don't like playing. Yeah.Right? You know, as kids, you
know, like, go in your room andplay.
Go outside and play or whatever.And adults, you know, maybe we
need a bit more of that. Anotheranother episode topic for
another time.
Mike Gawliuk (23:06):
I think we need a whole lot more of that.
Jessica Samuels (23:08):
Thanks, Mike.
Mike Gawliuk (23:09):
Thank you.
Jessica Samuels (23:10):
Beam Credit Union supports mental health
initiatives across BritishColumbia because caring for each
other builds stronger, moreconnected communities. United as
one, Beam's founding creditunions now serve 190,000 members
across BC.
Popular Podcasts
Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club
Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com