March 12, 2025 • 44 mins
Welcome to Episode 9: Exploring Counselling of A Way Forward Podcast | Presented by Beem Credit Union. In this episode of A Way Forward, Jessica Samuels and CMHA Kelowna CEO Mike Gawliuk dive into the topic of counselling. They discuss when it might be time to seek counselling, what to look for in a counselor, and share helpful resources for those considering counselling. With personal insights and professional expertise, they explore the value of therapy as a tool for well-being.
Key Discussion Points:
- Personal Journeys with Counselling
- Both Jessica and Mike share their personal experiences with seeking therapy.
- The importance of recognizing when to seek help.
- Recognizing When to Seek Counselling
- Common reasons for accessing therapy (e.g., life transitions, grief, stress, or simply feeling “off”).
- The misconception that counselling is only for crisis situations.
- The benefits of early intervention and preventative mental health care.
- Types of Mental Health Professionals & Their Roles
- Psychiatrists: Medical doctors specializing in mental health; can prescribe medication.
- Psychologists: PhD-trained professionals focusing on therapy and mental health assessments.
- Counsellors: Professionals with various designations, all trained to provide mental health support.
- How to Choose a Counsellor
- The importance of finding the right fit.
- Questions to ask a potential therapist (e.g., experience, specialties, approach to therapy).
- Understanding different types of counselling credentials in British Columbia.
- Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT) & Other Therapeutic Approaches
- Overview of CBT: A structured, short-term therapy focused on thoughts, feelings, and behaviors.
- The benefits and limitations of CBT.
- Other therapy types, such as EMDR and somatic experiencing, for trauma-focused work.
- The importance of selecting the right therapy approach based on individual needs.
- Preparing for Your First Counselling Session
- Understanding what to expect in the first session.
- Tips on how to articulate your concerns and goals.
- Emphasizing that clients have control over their therapy journey.
Key Takeaways:
- Counselling can be beneficial for a wide range of mental health concerns—not just crises.
- There are different types of mental health professionals, and finding the right one is crucial.
- CBT is a widely used therapy but may not be the best fit for everyone.
- Individuals have control over their mental health journey and can explore different approaches.
**Resources Mentioned:
When to get help
https://www.talkspace.com/blog/do-i-need-therapy/
https://ancorawellness.com/you-dont-need-crisis-to-see-counselor/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jessica Samuels (00:00):
Hello. I'm Jessica Samuels. Welcome to A
Way Forward presented by BeamCredit Union. I'd like to
acknowledge that this podcasttakes place on the ancestral,
traditional, and unceded landsof the Okanagan Sillux people.
Today's topic is counseling andcohost CMHA Kelowna CEO Mike
Golick and I are going to talkabout when you may want to get
(00:22):
counseling, things to look forin a counselor, and we're also
gonna provide some counselingresources for you that we hope
are helpful.
Mike, we've talked about thisbefore on the podcast. I see a
counselor. You see a counselor.Let's start off with how you
knew it was time to go and seekhelp in this way.
Mike Gawliuk (00:47):
Yeah. I'm trying to reflect back on the first
time I would have, seen acounselor. I think, what what
triggered it for me was arelationship, breakup. And, I'd
also gone in to see my familydoctor, because I was
experiencing some depression andtalking about the situation. And
(01:10):
between the encouragement of myphysician as well as, friends
that knew me, and had, donecounseling themselves, strongly
encouraged me, I'll say Mhmm.
To, access counseling. And,that's that's what really got me
started, in in, you know,accessing counseling. And then
(01:35):
throughout my life at varioustimes, there's been different
circumstances that come come upwhere, I'll go back and and and
see my counselor, and there canbe various reasons for that.
Mhmm. Yeah.
Jessica Samuels (01:47):
Right. And my experience was very was similar
as well, you know, in my earlytwenties going through I I don't
I don't remember it was any onesignificant thing, but could
have been a breakup, you know,the 20 year old angst, what am I
doing with my life type ofthing. And but was but was
experiencing a hard time. Like,I really was not managing this
(02:11):
well and then went and saw acounselor. And again, was
strongly encouraged, wink, wink,nudge, nudge, by by folks in my
life.
And it was a wonderfulexperience. I I I realize now
that I'm I'm very lucky that myfirst experience with a
counselor was good. Like like,my first one out of the gate, I
(02:33):
didn't even have to to searcharound, and we're gonna talk a
little bit more about that wasgood. And it was so helpful.
And, you know, all these yearslater, I reflect back on, the
the learnings and what I tookaway and what was said and just
that experience.
And also the idea knowing thatthat, how good it feels to feel
(02:55):
heard and to have somebodyunderstand what you're going
through and and give you somekind of solution. So, I mean,
it's it's it's an incrediblething to to, experience if
you're experiencing it well, inyour life. And and so kinda what
we wanna talk about today is iswhat we mentioned, when is a
(03:16):
time, the different types ofcounseling, and then, of course,
how to prepare and get ready foryour for for your first session
or your first time Yeah. Goinginto counseling. So how if
someone's gonna be accessingcounseling for the first time,
how do they know and this isgonna be this is gonna be an
(03:38):
interesting I'm hesitatingbecause we this has let us down
a bit of a thing.
This was a hard one to research,so I'm a little fumbly because
how do we know, first of all,it's time to go and see a
counselor?
Mike Gawliuk (03:52):
Well, I mean, obviously, in our cases, there
was encouragement from others.
Jessica Samuels (03:58):
Mhmm.
Mike Gawliuk (03:59):
But I think, it can be multiple things, like if
there's life events that aretaking place. Right? It could be
a breakup. It could be a loss,like a a death, grieving. There
could be stress related to towork or or your family
environment, and just just notfeeling yourself.
(04:21):
Like like, those are all reasonsto go and and talk to somebody.
Jessica Samuels (04:26):
Right. People think they need to be in crisis,
but you don't
Mike Gawliuk (04:29):
No. I think I I and in fact, that's a huge
misnomer is that, waiting forthings to get to a crisis point
to see a counselor. We talkedabout prevention before and and
ultimately, getting to acounselor when you're not, you
(04:49):
know, at your best, but thingshaven't totally gotten, off the
rails, can be hugely important.Seeing a counselor can give you
tools to manage in the face ofsome of the struggles that
you're having and prevent itfrom becoming, worse. I I think,
(05:10):
you know, some when we when weopened foundries, some of the
reasons were why didn't youthaccess counseling.
One of the things was theydidn't think it was bad enough.
And the reality is if you'rehaving a challenge, it's not
about good or bad, like, talkingto someone about what's going
on. Again, a third party who'snot necessarily invested like a
(05:35):
family member or a friend wouldbe, is is super important. Going
to counseling can give you someperspective on the world that
you may not have had prior to,which is another, positive
outcome, of counseling. Andthen, you know, you were
(05:58):
fortunate in that your firstexperience, was a positive
experience with the counselor.
That's not always the case.Sometimes it takes a little bit
of time to build a relationshipwith a counselor. That that can
take more than one session. Itcan take a few. Right?
Mhmm. Ultimately, so, startingand getting and building that
(06:19):
relationship and getting to aplace of comfort or, ultimately,
if it doesn't work out inchanging things up, is something
to look at as well.
Jessica Samuels (06:28):
Okay. Yeah. And within that is also the the type
of counseling and the type ofcounselor. So we're gonna do
we're gonna do the counselorfirst, and this is where Mike
and I are preparing. Okay.
So first of all, let let let'sjust make this cut and dry. Can
you tell me the differencebetween a counselor, a
psychologist, and apsychiatrist?
Mike Gawliuk (06:50):
I do my best.
Jessica Samuels (06:51):
Okay. Thank you.
Mike Gawliuk (06:53):
So a a psychiatrist is a medical
doctor. They're trained as aphysician, and then they have,
specialist training beyond that,obviously, in mental health and
mental illness. You know, theylearn how to diagnose and, treat
mental disorders. They're ableto prescribe medication. Some
(07:16):
will ultimately do psychotherapyas well.
And the other piece with thepsychiatrist, because they have
that medical background, theyalso understand, the physical
connection, so how that couldbe, impacted by, mental illness
(07:37):
or a mental, health disorder.Then there's a psychologist. And
so a psychologist, and inBritish Columbia is someone who
has, like, a PhD in psychology.So that's usually, four years
after an undergrad degree, andthey're trained in diagnosis and
(08:02):
treatment of mental healthdisorders. And the difference
between them and a psychiatristis that, they don't have the
ability to prescribe medication,but are fully trained in a a
number of different, like,treatment modalities and, and
(08:23):
assessments and, and have thatpostgraduate training.
And then Yes. There are,counselors. And, you know, in
doing research for this, thispodcast, there's about five
(08:45):
different registered counsellorsin British Columbia. They all
possess a master's degree. Sothere's a registered clinical
counselor.
There's masters of social work.There's a clinical master's in
social work. There's registeredtherapeutic counselors, and then
(09:10):
there's Canadian certifiedcounselors. So wholly is that
ever a lot and confusing. Yeah.
The reality is they all have alittle bit of different
training, but they're trained.They're they're master's level,
clinically trained,professionals who go through a
practicum and may learndifferent, techniques along the
(09:33):
way, but are absolutely 100percent able to provide
counseling, provide, differentlevels of treatment to people
who are experiencing mentalhealth related concerns.
Jessica Samuels (09:46):
How is a person supposed to know who they're
supposed to go to?
Mike Gawliuk (09:49):
Well, that's a
Jessica Samuels (09:51):
I mean, I'm just I'm sitting here amazed
that that, you you know, you'resomeone who's been in this line
of work for decades, you know,and and and here I am, and we're
we're working together, and wehave worked together. And we're
saying, gosh, this is a lot.Imagine if you're someone who's
struggling and you're like,where do I go? It's almost it's
almost like there's you have allthese options and which way do
(10:13):
you turn.
Mike Gawliuk (10:14):
Yeah. So I I mean, realistically, listing off the
different kinds of counselors issimply to give some perspective.
Right? I I think, certainly, ifthere's serious concerns related
to mental, to mental health ormental illness, and and that
(10:34):
would be areas where you've got,like, really serious concerns
about depression, maybepsychosis, those elements, you
would start obviously with yourfamily doctor because a family
doctor ultimately then makesthat referral to a psychiatrist.
A family doctor may also make areferral to a psychologist, but
(10:57):
you may be may be able to accessthat in in private practice as
well.
I think in terms of, looking atthe different training and who's
who, that's a matter of doing alittle bit of research, getting
a sense of who's who's out therein the community. And that could
(11:20):
be through people that you knowthat have had successful
experiences. It can be it couldbe starting with your physician.
It can be different ways to toreally find out, ultimately
what's available. It can be togo into a place like Foundry if
you're a young person, and, theymay start there and, see a
(11:42):
counselor and and, do anassessment who, then would refer
them on potentially onto,another person if there's needs
that are identified.
Right? So if someone shows upand they have specific needs and
it's identified, say, again,psychiatry, which tends to be
the holy grail, but it's notsomething that everybody needs
(12:04):
Right. An assessment can happenthere and a referral can be made
as, as as a result of that.
Jessica Samuels (12:11):
Right. Okay. Thank thank you. And and and
this is kind of why we weretaking deep breaths at the
beginning here because this isan immense topic.
Mike Gawliuk (12:21):
Mhmm.
Jessica Samuels (12:21):
And and we have to acknowledge that we are just
covering up a part of it becausein order to cover well, we
couldn't cover all of it, and itwould be a tremendously long
podcast if we did all of it. Sowe kind of had to pick and
choose what we were gonna talkabout when we're talking about
this broad topic of counseling.Where I'd like to go now is the
(12:42):
different type of counseling,and I I would like to focus in
the area, of of of the counselorperspective. And and please
correct me if I'm wrong becauseas we were as I was doing this
research, I would say, the typeof counseling that feels like
it's most accessible, mostpresent, most prescribed, most
(13:05):
referred to is through, youknow, a a clinical or a rest
registered clinical or master ofsocial work counseling, and it's
a form of counseling called CBT.Now just before I move on, would
you agree with that statement?
I'm not saying one's better orthe other. I'm just saying that
oftentimes, for folks who areaddressing, some challenges that
(13:28):
they're having in their life inthe absence of psychosis and
mental illness, it's CBT withcounselors.
Mike Gawliuk (13:35):
So what I would say is that CBT is a fairly
common approach.
Jessica Samuels (13:41):
Okay.
Mike Gawliuk (13:43):
It's got a lot of evidence behind it in terms of
how effective it is for certaindisorders. So CBT is, something
that has shown success forpeople who are struggling with
anxiety. It's shown success forwith with people who are
(14:04):
struggling with depression.There are studies who that have
compared it to, having the sameimpact as being on medication.
It's it's a therapy that takes alook at your your thoughts, your
feelings, and your behaviors andreally gets at looking at your
(14:26):
thought patterns and howsometimes your distorted
thoughts ultimately affect howyou feel and then make you act
in a certain way.
So it's really about shapingyour thought patterns, changing
your thought patterns up when,say, for example, you've got,
some cognitive distortions,looking at seeing things or
(14:51):
getting an opportunity toconsider, different alternatives
for reality. And and it's it'sgoal oriented. CBT is also short
term. It offers six to 20sessions, but it's very active.
Like, there's a lot of homeworkthat comes with CBT.
You're active with yourtherapist, again, being very
(15:15):
goal focused. And so there's alot of work that takes place
when you do cognitive behavioraltherapy. You'll you're always
gonna go home with homework, andit's not necessarily, a passive
where you're, you're sittingacross, from someone and and
(15:37):
they're listening to what'sgoing on. It has a purpose. That
purpose is to really work withthose thought processes, which
shape how, we behave.
And ultimately, again, whereit's been shown to be effective
is is with with anxiety Mhmm.And depression.
Jessica Samuels (15:56):
Right. And I think it's important folks
understand that and and thankyou for that. And so, you know,
you you what you said there,very thorough response, you
know, it's it's a a shortdefinition and I you know, I
will have to read it because Iwanna make sure that I that I
get it all. It's a practical allthese things you said. CBT,
cognitive behavioral therapy, isa practical short term for form
(16:17):
of psychotherapy.
It helps people to developskills and strategies for
becoming and staying healthy. Itfocuses on the here and now, and
I think this is this is a a keything. It focuses on the here
and now, on the problems thatcome up in the day to day life,
and that oftentimes will referback to that homework and that
active piece that you weretalking about. CBT helps people
(16:40):
to examine how they make senseof what is happening around them
and how these perceptions affectthe way they feel. Again,
thoughts, feelings, physicalsensations like you said.
So, yeah, it's structured, timelimited, usually 60 to 20
sessions, goals, homework, allof these things, are specific to
CBT, and it is widely used andis widely helpful.
Mike Gawliuk (17:03):
Yeah. I mean, it certainly is it it's widely
used. There are certainly somepeople, and and I know people
that have done CBT, who have,had really positive experiences
and and it's had a significantimpact on them. So it it
(17:23):
definitely has value, in termsof, one form of treatment that's
out there. Mhmm.
As with anything else, it's,it's not without its critics.
Mhmm.
Jessica Samuels (17:36):
I I was gonna say I feel like there's a but
there. Like, there's a a but.
Mike Gawliuk (17:41):
Well, I I think I think part of the the critiques
around it is that, again, youtalk about the here and now and
the thoughts that are in thehere and now. Where it may be
limited is what maybe causedthose thoughts to begin with. So
it doesn't necessarily allow youto go back and take a look at
(18:03):
maybe there was a circumstancethat happened to you when you
were younger. Maybe there was atrauma experience, and and and
it's not necessarily going toget to that. So, so it's not
going to be as effective norshould it be utilized
(18:23):
experiences.
Right? When we look at trauma,which certainly in this day and
age, we, we hear a lot about,when we look at the the roots of
substance misuse and, andaddiction. Certainly, one of the
things that is commonplacebehind that is, the experience
(18:46):
of trauma. Mhmm. And there'sother therapies, that are in
place that are designed to, moreeffectively address, traumas.
Jessica Samuels (18:59):
Right.
Mike Gawliuk (19:00):
I mean, there's there's, what's called EMDR, eye
movement desensitization andreprocessing.
Jessica Samuels (19:08):
Right.
Mike Gawliuk (19:09):
There's somatic experiencing. And and and those
approaches tend to, identifythat when you have experienced
trauma, it's it's not just acognitive experience, like,
trauma is felt in the body andit experienced in the body. And
so for people that have beentraumatized, those, those
(19:35):
modalities have shown to make adifference for people. Now what
I would say and how this relatesback to what we started the
conversation with is thatthere's lots of different,
counseling designations outthere. And I put up just, when
(19:56):
it comes to trauma, treatingtrauma, those approaches are
very specialized, and they takea lot of very specific and very
focused training.
And so I would say if someone islooking at or looking for, to
address specific issues in thoseareas, you're gonna wanna ask
(20:20):
some questions, of the personthat you're talking talking to.
Like, what has their experiencehas been? What does their
training look like? You know?Have they worked in this setting
before?
For how many years? All thosekinds of things. Because the
other side of the coin, is thatthere are those that are out
(20:41):
there that maybe don't have thesame level of training, or the
same level of qualification,and, unfortunately, can can do
more harm than good. So it'simportant to really do your
homework in terms of, any anycouncil that you're going to
(21:01):
see, especially when we look atissues, like, trauma focused
work.
Jessica Samuels (21:08):
Right. And I think as we as we and and thank
you for that. I mean, again,feel like we're touching on so
much here, but it's reallyimportant for folks to
understand or or start tounderstand what they have to get
into if they are thinking theyneed to see seek out some help,
some counseling, and the type ofcounseling, and which of the
therapies fall into whichcategories and understanding
(21:30):
what you want. So as an example,you you you could have some you
could be an individual who youknow you have had a traumatic
experience, but maybe you don'twant to go that deep yet or at
all. So it's it's not like youknow that that because you've
(21:51):
had a traumatic experience, youhave to go and get that type of
therapy.
And I think that's probably oneof the main things I really want
to get across to people. You youhave control.
Mike Gawliuk (22:01):
Mhmm.
Jessica Samuels (22:01):
You can decide whether the therapy is working
for you, the type of therapy. Imean, you can't really decide
the type of therapy. You can'twalk into a psychiatrist. But as
you become more informed and youhave the pathways open to you,
you don't have to do, EMDRunless that's where you choose
(22:22):
to go right now. If you want tojust start off with something,
it's your first time, maybe CBTor CFBT is the way to go.
And, you know, I think it'simportant for folks to know that
that they have control over thehelp that they seek out.
Mike Gawliuk (22:38):
Absolutely. 100%. You know, you you choose a the
counselor you're gonna workwith. Mhmm. And and and I think
this is then gets down to sortof what does it look like when
you when you seek counseling forthe first time.
Right? And what does what doesthe first appointment, usually
(22:59):
entail?
Jessica Samuels (23:00):
Right.
Mike Gawliuk (23:00):
I I mean, realistically, what I would say
in terms of preparing for acounseling appointment is sort
of to get clear around thereason that you're going to talk
to somebody. I mean, as clear asyou can get under the
circumstances, so that you can,share specifically, what's been
going on. Whoever you initiallytalk to is, is going to be doing
(23:26):
an assessment. They're going tobe asking basic questions
around, you know, the basicsaround who you are, age, those
kinds of things. But, we'll askdifferent questions around
circumstances and do anassessment.
And and through that assessment,we'll, start to identify, you
(23:49):
know, what's going to besuggested as part of a treatment
plan, what, approach may be mosthelpful. So it's it's really
important to, again, not only goin with an idea of what you're
there for, but to to followthrough with the assessment to
the best of your ability. What Iwould say is because it's your
(24:11):
choice, if you go into a settingand you don't feel comfortable,
it doesn't feel right forwhatever reason, you have the
right to stop the session andsay, I don't feel comfortable. I
I don't wanna continue. And I Iwanna reinforce that people
absolutely have the right to dothat, 100%.
Jessica Samuels (24:31):
Mhmm. And also, not go back. I mean, I've I've
had friends or people in my lifesaying, okay. Well, you know, I
I think I'm I'm good. And notbecause the experience was
negative, but they're like,okay.
I've I've got this homework.I've got this work. I I have
another appointment, but I Ijust need to take a couple
beats. And it's like, yeah. Youcan say.
(24:52):
You can say exactly that. I havesome stuff to work on, or I'm
okay right now. You know? Can Icome back? So that that idea
that you have control over youryour your treatment plan is
important.
Going back to also in that firstappointment, you know, expect
that it's gonna be probablyforty five to sixty minutes.
Mike Gawliuk (25:10):
Somewhere in that vicinity.
Jessica Samuels (25:12):
Yeah. And I always find it's a good idea to,
you talked about preparing,being prepared ahead of time
with with what you want to talkabout, but I also think setting
some time for yourself beforeyou go, is helpful to me, and
then allowing yourself somegrace afterwards.
Mike Gawliuk (25:33):
For sure.
Jessica Samuels (25:33):
Yeah.
Mike Gawliuk (25:34):
Right? It it can be an emotional, environment,
and it it can be an emotionalexperience. So, yeah, absolutely
taking time before and after is,is is very important.
Jessica Samuels (25:47):
Right. And the other thing too just before we
move on to the next point, goingback to what you're saying is
that, really, you know, you canseek out help from friends or
medical professionals in termsof maybe where they might point
you in a direction, but reallydo research. You know, what I've
noticed with counselors, they'llthey'll you'll see words, and
(26:10):
this is why we were talkingabout them on their website,
CBT, SFBT, EMDR. Mhmm. And andand they should describe it.
They should tell you on thewebsite what they specialize in
and their areas of focus. Youshould see their credentials.
So, all of this is built out tohelp you to make those decisions
(26:31):
and and and take the time toresearch it. We're we're
googling everything else in theworld. You're about to share
some or be pretty vulnerablewith an individual.
So
Mike Gawliuk (26:42):
For sure. And again, I can I go I can go to my
experience, because I have donea couple EMDR sessions? And and
what I experienced in bothcases, it was it was two
separate counselors, is that,you didn't just go in and do a
session. Like, this wassomething that that built.
(27:03):
Right?
They explained what it was goingto involve, what it was going to
take, what it was going to looklike, what that experience would
involve, and really prepared, mefor that experience to come. And
and, of course, I did myhomework in terms of, who the
counselors were, their history,their experience, that kind of
(27:26):
thing. Their approach, and andtalking about not only the
positive outcomes, but where,where there could be, negative
outcomes, were were things thatwere helpful for me to make the
decision to go forward with thattype of treatment. I can say for
(27:48):
me, it was explained to me thatwhat it before and after, what
it would look like. And and Ican say from my experience,
talked about it, like, you havethere's a trauma that you have
in your life, and, and you holda certain level of emotion,
(28:09):
attached to that.
Right? Whatever that trauma is.And and someone explained to me
that, as you go through theprocess and as you, start to to
process the trauma, what comesout at the other end is that you
still see that experience, butthe emotional intensity that
(28:33):
you've attached to it or hasbeen attached to it, all the way
along, no longer exists. Mhmm.And for me, it was an experience
that, had to do with, a loss inmy, in my family.
And, when I was done, I waspretty mesmerized by the
outcome, and I could say it wassuper effective because the
(28:56):
scenario that would almost bringme to tears if I spent time
thinking about it now aftergoing through the process, could
see it loud and clear, couldstill go to that space, but the
the pain and and everything thatwas attached to it, had been
resolved. And I kinda went, wow.Like, this is this is, quite
(29:19):
amazing, and it was a a reallyhelpful and beneficial
experience for me. So, ofcourse, I would recommend it.
Jessica Samuels (29:26):
Mhmm.
Mike Gawliuk (29:26):
But I would recommend it under the
conditions that, again, it'swith a qualified, certified,
trained, therapist and that,they've demonstrated that
they've they've had that thattraining and they have those
credentials.
Jessica Samuels (29:42):
How long did it take you to get to that
resolution? Be you know, is sowhen when you had that relief
and that that transformationalexperience that you were talking
about.
Mike Gawliuk (29:54):
Yeah. I I'm trying to think back in terms of the
number of sessions that I had toYeah. To sort of understand the
process and then the build andto do a session, and some people
do more than, one session. Ithink I think for me, it was,
probably four or five sessionsis what that looked like, But
it's going to be different for,different people based on the
(30:17):
experience depending on what thetrauma is, how complex it is,
and and those sorts of things.
Jessica Samuels (30:23):
Okay. Well and and I appreciate you telling
that story because I I'm my hopeis that it will resonate, you
know, this whole conversation,but our personal experiences
will resonate with folks who aretuning into this. Have you ever
had a bad experience? Have youyou're like, nope. This is not
for me.
Mike Gawliuk (30:42):
I'm I'm trying to I've I've certainly heard of
people that have had lots of badexperiences. Yeah. I've had I
wouldn't say, like, horribleexperiences.
Jessica Samuels (30:55):
Like, I don't wanna be like, oh, it was so
bad.
Mike Gawliuk (30:57):
But you can't you kinda you know when you know.
Right? Like, if if if there ifthere isn't a connection there,
like, if it's just if it's not afit, it doesn't take long to
figure that out. Right? Yeah.
And and I think one of thethings with, with therapy and I
know historical research thatthey've done around common
(31:19):
factors in therapy, like, whatare the common factors that
actually, help to facilitatechange, the the therapeutic
alliance, the relationshipthat's built with the therapist
is always, like, up there, in
Jessica Samuels (31:36):
Which is so interesting to me. Like, it
makes sense if you've done it,but you have to, like, like the
person. You can't think they'rea jerk.
Mike Gawliuk (31:45):
Well, it's
Jessica Samuels (31:46):
There may be moments there may be moments in
your session where you aredisagreeing with them and you
think, but, I mean, overall, youhave to like them.
Mike Gawliuk (31:54):
Well, there has to be there has to be a
relationship
Jessica Samuels (31:56):
Yeah.
Mike Gawliuk (31:57):
That's built. There has to be a sense of, of
trust that gets, that gets builtthere, a certain sense of
credibility and a belief in theperson's skills and knowledge as
as well. So have I ever had abad experience? I wouldn't say
I've had a bad experience. HaveI had to make a choice where I
chose to go see someone else?
Yeah. And that was just becauseit wasn't it wasn't a fit, and I
(32:19):
knew it wasn't a fit. And therewas was no point going back
because it wasn't going to makea difference for me.
Jessica Samuels (32:25):
Well and you run the risk of of rejecting
what the person is saying to youjust because you don't have that
relationship with them asopposed to, really hearing them
and and following along withtheir advice. I mean, I I've had
that experience, and I rememberjust sitting there looking at
them. And for no reason, I'd beit was fine. I was just like,
yeah. I don't like what you'resaying.
(32:47):
And I I don't I didn't say that.Yeah. But I just knew that I was
having an emotional response tothe individual, and maybe if
somebody else had said it, Imight have had a different
response. You know, some otherconsiderations too that we have
to talk about and as just as weget prepared to wrap up here is,
their availability and yourbudget. So we definitely went
(33:08):
across the gamut of thedifferent types of psychiatry,
psychology, and counseling andall the ones we've talked about.
And we recognize that budget isgoing to play a big role in
that. And it's no secret toanyone that, you know, the
system is woefully underserved,and stretched to the limits. And
and there are free options outthere, but even even the the the
(33:31):
the pay services are are arequite, you know, overbooked.
Mike Gawliuk (33:35):
For sure. I I it goes back to one of our previous
podcasts around the state ofmental health in Canada and the
reality that, we need a moresignificant investment in
counseling so that the 2,500,000people who are in need that
aren't getting help in thecountry would have access to
(33:55):
that.
Jessica Samuels (33:56):
Mhmm.
Mike Gawliuk (33:57):
So so there's a reality. What I would say is,
yes, there are free servicesthat are available. Again,
Foundry, it's a walk incounseling model, free of
charge. We've got a virtualcounseling program that, again,
is free of charge. There'splaces like Third Space, which
also, serve young adults, thatare are free services and then
(34:22):
other organizations within thecommunity that are either a
sliding scale, or or freeservices.
Mhmm. In terms of accessing, ofcourse, there's the public
system, which is, free. And sodepending on your age,
certainly, if you're a youngperson, you can start at
(34:43):
Foundry. Child and youth mentalhealth through MCFD provides
services for young people up to19, and then Interior Health
provides services for those 19.Those services are free of
charge.
If you are, through work, if youhave a benefit program, you may
(35:04):
have either an employeeassistance program that you can
access that would be coveredthrough your benefits and or
your benefit, may also include,like, paraprofessional support.
So, that could include,psychological services,
counseling, those those pieces.So if you're, if if you if
(35:26):
you're working, and you have abenefit plan, I would say take a
look into that too because,those sessions may be covered
through your benefit plan. Sothere's many different ways to
access help. Again,unfortunately, as we know, we
need more of it.
Mhmm. And, and what I know isfrom my experience, it sounds
(35:52):
like from your experience, whenyou get the right fit and and
and you're able to engage, incounseling, it certainly can
make a significant difference inyour life. And, you know, I
wanna wanna certainly speak tothe value of it and encourage
(36:13):
anybody that's considering it,that it can be well worth, your
time. Right.
Jessica Samuels (36:20):
Mike, thank you so much for this discussion.
Mike Gawliuk (36:22):
Yeah. Thank you.
Jessica Samuels (36:24):
We have covered a lot of information today. We,
will have some of those links onthe A Way Forward podcast page
presented by Beam Credit Unionon the c m a j kelona dot org
website. We'll have some linksto some of the types of
counseling, of course, some ofthose resources that Mike just
mentioned as well. And if youhave any questions about this
(36:47):
topic or any of the topics wecover, you can always email us
at a way forward at c m h acolona dot org. In the meantime,
please take good care.
Beam Credit Union supportsmental health initiatives across
British Columbia because caringfor each other builds stronger,
more connected communities.United as one, Beam's founding
(37:08):
credit unions now serve 190,000members across BC.
Hello. I'm Jessica Samuels. Welcome to A
Way Forward presented by BeamCredit Union. I'd like to
acknowledge that this podcasttakes place on the ancestral,
traditional, and unceded landsof the Okanagan Sillux people.
Today's topic is counseling andcohost CMHA Kelowna CEO Mike
Golick and I are going to talkabout when you may want to get
(00:22):
counseling, things to look forin a counselor, and we're also
gonna provide some counselingresources for you that we hope
are helpful.
Mike, we've talked about thisbefore on the podcast. I see a
counselor. You see a counselor.Let's start off with how you
knew it was time to go and seekhelp in this way.
Mike Gawliuk (00:47):
Yeah. I'm trying to reflect back on the first
time I would have, seen acounselor. I think, what what
triggered it for me was arelationship, breakup. And, I'd
also gone in to see my familydoctor, because I was
experiencing some depression andtalking about the situation. And
(01:10):
between the encouragement of myphysician as well as, friends
that knew me, and had, donecounseling themselves, strongly
encouraged me, I'll say Mhmm.
To, access counseling. And,that's that's what really got me
started, in in, you know,accessing counseling. And then
(01:35):
throughout my life at varioustimes, there's been different
circumstances that come come upwhere, I'll go back and and and
see my counselor, and there canbe various reasons for that.
Mhmm. Yeah.
Jessica Samuels (01:47):
Right. And my experience was very was similar
as well, you know, in my earlytwenties going through I I don't
I don't remember it was any onesignificant thing, but could
have been a breakup, you know,the 20 year old angst, what am I
doing with my life type ofthing. And but was but was
experiencing a hard time. Like,I really was not managing this
(02:11):
well and then went and saw acounselor. And again, was
strongly encouraged, wink, wink,nudge, nudge, by by folks in my
life.
And it was a wonderfulexperience. I I I realize now
that I'm I'm very lucky that myfirst experience with a
counselor was good. Like like,my first one out of the gate, I
(02:33):
didn't even have to to searcharound, and we're gonna talk a
little bit more about that wasgood. And it was so helpful.
And, you know, all these yearslater, I reflect back on, the
the learnings and what I tookaway and what was said and just
that experience.
And also the idea knowing thatthat, how good it feels to feel
(02:55):
heard and to have somebodyunderstand what you're going
through and and give you somekind of solution. So, I mean,
it's it's it's an incrediblething to to, experience if
you're experiencing it well, inyour life. And and so kinda what
we wanna talk about today is iswhat we mentioned, when is a
(03:16):
time, the different types ofcounseling, and then, of course,
how to prepare and get ready foryour for for your first session
or your first time Yeah. Goinginto counseling. So how if
someone's gonna be accessingcounseling for the first time,
how do they know and this isgonna be this is gonna be an
(03:38):
interesting I'm hesitatingbecause we this has let us down
a bit of a thing.
This was a hard one to research,so I'm a little fumbly because
how do we know, first of all,it's time to go and see a
counselor?
Mike Gawliuk (03:52):
Well, I mean, obviously, in our cases, there
was encouragement from others.
Jessica Samuels (03:58):
Mhmm.
Mike Gawliuk (03:59):
But I think, it can be multiple things, like if
there's life events that aretaking place. Right? It could be
a breakup. It could be a loss,like a a death, grieving. There
could be stress related to towork or or your family
environment, and just just notfeeling yourself.
(04:21):
Like like, those are all reasonsto go and and talk to somebody.
Jessica Samuels (04:26):
Right. People think they need to be in crisis,
but you don't
Mike Gawliuk (04:29):
No. I think I I and in fact, that's a huge
misnomer is that, waiting forthings to get to a crisis point
to see a counselor. We talkedabout prevention before and and
ultimately, getting to acounselor when you're not, you
(04:49):
know, at your best, but thingshaven't totally gotten, off the
rails, can be hugely important.Seeing a counselor can give you
tools to manage in the face ofsome of the struggles that
you're having and prevent itfrom becoming, worse. I I think,
(05:10):
you know, some when we when weopened foundries, some of the
reasons were why didn't youthaccess counseling.
One of the things was theydidn't think it was bad enough.
And the reality is if you'rehaving a challenge, it's not
about good or bad, like, talkingto someone about what's going
on. Again, a third party who'snot necessarily invested like a
(05:35):
family member or a friend wouldbe, is is super important. Going
to counseling can give you someperspective on the world that
you may not have had prior to,which is another, positive
outcome, of counseling. Andthen, you know, you were
(05:58):
fortunate in that your firstexperience, was a positive
experience with the counselor.
That's not always the case.Sometimes it takes a little bit
of time to build a relationshipwith a counselor. That that can
take more than one session. Itcan take a few. Right?
Mhmm. Ultimately, so, startingand getting and building that
(06:19):
relationship and getting to aplace of comfort or, ultimately,
if it doesn't work out inchanging things up, is something
to look at as well.
Jessica Samuels (06:28):
Okay. Yeah. And within that is also the the type
of counseling and the type ofcounselor. So we're gonna do
we're gonna do the counselorfirst, and this is where Mike
and I are preparing. Okay.
So first of all, let let let'sjust make this cut and dry. Can
you tell me the differencebetween a counselor, a
psychologist, and apsychiatrist?
Mike Gawliuk (06:50):
I do my best.
Jessica Samuels (06:51):
Okay. Thank you.
Mike Gawliuk (06:53):
So a a psychiatrist is a medical
doctor. They're trained as aphysician, and then they have,
specialist training beyond that,obviously, in mental health and
mental illness. You know, theylearn how to diagnose and, treat
mental disorders. They're ableto prescribe medication. Some
(07:16):
will ultimately do psychotherapyas well.
And the other piece with thepsychiatrist, because they have
that medical background, theyalso understand, the physical
connection, so how that couldbe, impacted by, mental illness
(07:37):
or a mental, health disorder.Then there's a psychologist. And
so a psychologist, and inBritish Columbia is someone who
has, like, a PhD in psychology.So that's usually, four years
after an undergrad degree, andthey're trained in diagnosis and
(08:02):
treatment of mental healthdisorders. And the difference
between them and a psychiatristis that, they don't have the
ability to prescribe medication,but are fully trained in a a
number of different, like,treatment modalities and, and
(08:23):
assessments and, and have thatpostgraduate training.
And then Yes. There are,counselors. And, you know, in
doing research for this, thispodcast, there's about five
(08:45):
different registered counsellorsin British Columbia. They all
possess a master's degree. Sothere's a registered clinical
counselor.
There's masters of social work.There's a clinical master's in
social work. There's registeredtherapeutic counselors, and then
(09:10):
there's Canadian certifiedcounselors. So wholly is that
ever a lot and confusing. Yeah.
The reality is they all have alittle bit of different
training, but they're trained.They're they're master's level,
clinically trained,professionals who go through a
practicum and may learndifferent, techniques along the
(09:33):
way, but are absolutely 100percent able to provide
counseling, provide, differentlevels of treatment to people
who are experiencing mentalhealth related concerns.
Jessica Samuels (09:46):
How is a person supposed to know who they're
supposed to go to?
Mike Gawliuk (09:49):
Well, that's a
Jessica Samuels (09:51):
I mean, I'm just I'm sitting here amazed
that that, you you know, you'resomeone who's been in this line
of work for decades, you know,and and and here I am, and we're
we're working together, and wehave worked together. And we're
saying, gosh, this is a lot.Imagine if you're someone who's
struggling and you're like,where do I go? It's almost it's
almost like there's you have allthese options and which way do
(10:13):
you turn.
Mike Gawliuk (10:14):
Yeah. So I I mean, realistically, listing off the
different kinds of counselors issimply to give some perspective.
Right? I I think, certainly, ifthere's serious concerns related
to mental, to mental health ormental illness, and and that
(10:34):
would be areas where you've got,like, really serious concerns
about depression, maybepsychosis, those elements, you
would start obviously with yourfamily doctor because a family
doctor ultimately then makesthat referral to a psychiatrist.
A family doctor may also make areferral to a psychologist, but
(10:57):
you may be may be able to accessthat in in private practice as
well.
I think in terms of, looking atthe different training and who's
who, that's a matter of doing alittle bit of research, getting
a sense of who's who's out therein the community. And that could
(11:20):
be through people that you knowthat have had successful
experiences. It can be it couldbe starting with your physician.
It can be different ways to toreally find out, ultimately
what's available. It can be togo into a place like Foundry if
you're a young person, and, theymay start there and, see a
(11:42):
counselor and and, do anassessment who, then would refer
them on potentially onto,another person if there's needs
that are identified.
Right? So if someone shows upand they have specific needs and
it's identified, say, again,psychiatry, which tends to be
the holy grail, but it's notsomething that everybody needs
(12:04):
Right. An assessment can happenthere and a referral can be made
as, as as a result of that.
Jessica Samuels (12:11):
Right. Okay. Thank thank you. And and and
this is kind of why we weretaking deep breaths at the
beginning here because this isan immense topic.
Mike Gawliuk (12:21):
Mhmm.
Jessica Samuels (12:21):
And and we have to acknowledge that we are just
covering up a part of it becausein order to cover well, we
couldn't cover all of it, and itwould be a tremendously long
podcast if we did all of it. Sowe kind of had to pick and
choose what we were gonna talkabout when we're talking about
this broad topic of counseling.Where I'd like to go now is the
(12:42):
different type of counseling,and I I would like to focus in
the area, of of of the counselorperspective. And and please
correct me if I'm wrong becauseas we were as I was doing this
research, I would say, the typeof counseling that feels like
it's most accessible, mostpresent, most prescribed, most
(13:05):
referred to is through, youknow, a a clinical or a rest
registered clinical or master ofsocial work counseling, and it's
a form of counseling called CBT.Now just before I move on, would
you agree with that statement?
I'm not saying one's better orthe other. I'm just saying that
oftentimes, for folks who areaddressing, some challenges that
(13:28):
they're having in their life inthe absence of psychosis and
mental illness, it's CBT withcounselors.
Mike Gawliuk (13:35):
So what I would say is that CBT is a fairly
common approach.
Jessica Samuels (13:41):
Okay.
Mike Gawliuk (13:43):
It's got a lot of evidence behind it in terms of
how effective it is for certaindisorders. So CBT is, something
that has shown success forpeople who are struggling with
anxiety. It's shown success forwith with people who are
(14:04):
struggling with depression.There are studies who that have
compared it to, having the sameimpact as being on medication.
It's it's a therapy that takes alook at your your thoughts, your
feelings, and your behaviors andreally gets at looking at your
(14:26):
thought patterns and howsometimes your distorted
thoughts ultimately affect howyou feel and then make you act
in a certain way.
So it's really about shapingyour thought patterns, changing
your thought patterns up when,say, for example, you've got,
some cognitive distortions,looking at seeing things or
(14:51):
getting an opportunity toconsider, different alternatives
for reality. And and it's it'sgoal oriented. CBT is also short
term. It offers six to 20sessions, but it's very active.
Like, there's a lot of homeworkthat comes with CBT.
You're active with yourtherapist, again, being very
(15:15):
goal focused. And so there's alot of work that takes place
when you do cognitive behavioraltherapy. You'll you're always
gonna go home with homework, andit's not necessarily, a passive
where you're, you're sittingacross, from someone and and
(15:37):
they're listening to what'sgoing on. It has a purpose. That
purpose is to really work withthose thought processes, which
shape how, we behave.
And ultimately, again, whereit's been shown to be effective
is is with with anxiety Mhmm.And depression.
Jessica Samuels (15:56):
Right. And I think it's important folks
understand that and and thankyou for that. And so, you know,
you you what you said there,very thorough response, you
know, it's it's a a shortdefinition and I you know, I
will have to read it because Iwanna make sure that I that I
get it all. It's a practical allthese things you said. CBT,
cognitive behavioral therapy, isa practical short term for form
(16:17):
of psychotherapy.
It helps people to developskills and strategies for
becoming and staying healthy. Itfocuses on the here and now, and
I think this is this is a a keything. It focuses on the here
and now, on the problems thatcome up in the day to day life,
and that oftentimes will referback to that homework and that
active piece that you weretalking about. CBT helps people
(16:40):
to examine how they make senseof what is happening around them
and how these perceptions affectthe way they feel. Again,
thoughts, feelings, physicalsensations like you said.
So, yeah, it's structured, timelimited, usually 60 to 20
sessions, goals, homework, allof these things, are specific to
CBT, and it is widely used andis widely helpful.
Mike Gawliuk (17:03):
Yeah. I mean, it certainly is it it's widely
used. There are certainly somepeople, and and I know people
that have done CBT, who have,had really positive experiences
and and it's had a significantimpact on them. So it it
(17:23):
definitely has value, in termsof, one form of treatment that's
out there. Mhmm.
As with anything else, it's,it's not without its critics.
Mhmm.
Jessica Samuels (17:36):
I I was gonna say I feel like there's a but
there. Like, there's a a but.
Mike Gawliuk (17:41):
Well, I I think I think part of the the critiques
around it is that, again, youtalk about the here and now and
the thoughts that are in thehere and now. Where it may be
limited is what maybe causedthose thoughts to begin with. So
it doesn't necessarily allow youto go back and take a look at
(18:03):
maybe there was a circumstancethat happened to you when you
were younger. Maybe there was atrauma experience, and and and
it's not necessarily going toget to that. So, so it's not
going to be as effective norshould it be utilized
(18:23):
experiences.
Right? When we look at trauma,which certainly in this day and
age, we, we hear a lot about,when we look at the the roots of
substance misuse and, andaddiction. Certainly, one of the
things that is commonplacebehind that is, the experience
(18:46):
of trauma. Mhmm. And there'sother therapies, that are in
place that are designed to, moreeffectively address, traumas.
Jessica Samuels (18:59):
Right.
Mike Gawliuk (19:00):
I mean, there's there's, what's called EMDR, eye
movement desensitization andreprocessing.
Jessica Samuels (19:08):
Right.
Mike Gawliuk (19:09):
There's somatic experiencing. And and and those
approaches tend to, identifythat when you have experienced
trauma, it's it's not just acognitive experience, like,
trauma is felt in the body andit experienced in the body. And
so for people that have beentraumatized, those, those
(19:35):
modalities have shown to make adifference for people. Now what
I would say and how this relatesback to what we started the
conversation with is thatthere's lots of different,
counseling designations outthere. And I put up just, when
(19:56):
it comes to trauma, treatingtrauma, those approaches are
very specialized, and they takea lot of very specific and very
focused training.
And so I would say if someone islooking at or looking for, to
address specific issues in thoseareas, you're gonna wanna ask
(20:20):
some questions, of the personthat you're talking talking to.
Like, what has their experiencehas been? What does their
training look like? You know?Have they worked in this setting
before?
For how many years? All thosekinds of things. Because the
other side of the coin, is thatthere are those that are out
(20:41):
there that maybe don't have thesame level of training, or the
same level of qualification,and, unfortunately, can can do
more harm than good. So it'simportant to really do your
homework in terms of, any anycouncil that you're going to
(21:01):
see, especially when we look atissues, like, trauma focused
work.
Jessica Samuels (21:08):
Right. And I think as we as we and and thank
you for that. I mean, again,feel like we're touching on so
much here, but it's reallyimportant for folks to
understand or or start tounderstand what they have to get
into if they are thinking theyneed to see seek out some help,
some counseling, and the type ofcounseling, and which of the
therapies fall into whichcategories and understanding
(21:30):
what you want. So as an example,you you you could have some you
could be an individual who youknow you have had a traumatic
experience, but maybe you don'twant to go that deep yet or at
all. So it's it's not like youknow that that because you've
(21:51):
had a traumatic experience, youhave to go and get that type of
therapy.
And I think that's probably oneof the main things I really want
to get across to people. You youhave control.
Mike Gawliuk (22:01):
Mhmm.
Jessica Samuels (22:01):
You can decide whether the therapy is working
for you, the type of therapy. Imean, you can't really decide
the type of therapy. You can'twalk into a psychiatrist. But as
you become more informed and youhave the pathways open to you,
you don't have to do, EMDRunless that's where you choose
(22:22):
to go right now. If you want tojust start off with something,
it's your first time, maybe CBTor CFBT is the way to go.
And, you know, I think it'simportant for folks to know that
that they have control over thehelp that they seek out.
Mike Gawliuk (22:38):
Absolutely. 100%. You know, you you choose a the
counselor you're gonna workwith. Mhmm. And and and I think
this is then gets down to sortof what does it look like when
you when you seek counseling forthe first time.
Right? And what does what doesthe first appointment, usually
(22:59):
entail?
Jessica Samuels (23:00):
Right.
Mike Gawliuk (23:00):
I I mean, realistically, what I would say
in terms of preparing for acounseling appointment is sort
of to get clear around thereason that you're going to talk
to somebody. I mean, as clear asyou can get under the
circumstances, so that you can,share specifically, what's been
going on. Whoever you initiallytalk to is, is going to be doing
(23:26):
an assessment. They're going tobe asking basic questions
around, you know, the basicsaround who you are, age, those
kinds of things. But, we'll askdifferent questions around
circumstances and do anassessment.
And and through that assessment,we'll, start to identify, you
(23:49):
know, what's going to besuggested as part of a treatment
plan, what, approach may be mosthelpful. So it's it's really
important to, again, not only goin with an idea of what you're
there for, but to to followthrough with the assessment to
the best of your ability. What Iwould say is because it's your
(24:11):
choice, if you go into a settingand you don't feel comfortable,
it doesn't feel right forwhatever reason, you have the
right to stop the session andsay, I don't feel comfortable. I
I don't wanna continue. And I Iwanna reinforce that people
absolutely have the right to dothat, 100%.
Jessica Samuels (24:31):
Mhmm. And also, not go back. I mean, I've I've
had friends or people in my lifesaying, okay. Well, you know, I
I think I'm I'm good. And notbecause the experience was
negative, but they're like,okay.
I've I've got this homework.I've got this work. I I have
another appointment, but I Ijust need to take a couple
beats. And it's like, yeah. Youcan say.
(24:52):
You can say exactly that. I havesome stuff to work on, or I'm
okay right now. You know? Can Icome back? So that that idea
that you have control over youryour your treatment plan is
important.
Going back to also in that firstappointment, you know, expect
that it's gonna be probablyforty five to sixty minutes.
Mike Gawliuk (25:10):
Somewhere in that vicinity.
Jessica Samuels (25:12):
Yeah. And I always find it's a good idea to,
you talked about preparing,being prepared ahead of time
with with what you want to talkabout, but I also think setting
some time for yourself beforeyou go, is helpful to me, and
then allowing yourself somegrace afterwards.
Mike Gawliuk (25:33):
For sure.
Jessica Samuels (25:33):
Yeah.
Mike Gawliuk (25:34):
Right? It it can be an emotional, environment,
and it it can be an emotionalexperience. So, yeah, absolutely
taking time before and after is,is is very important.
Jessica Samuels (25:47):
Right. And the other thing too just before we
move on to the next point, goingback to what you're saying is
that, really, you know, you canseek out help from friends or
medical professionals in termsof maybe where they might point
you in a direction, but reallydo research. You know, what I've
noticed with counselors, they'llthey'll you'll see words, and
(26:10):
this is why we were talkingabout them on their website,
CBT, SFBT, EMDR. Mhmm. And andand they should describe it.
They should tell you on thewebsite what they specialize in
and their areas of focus. Youshould see their credentials.
So, all of this is built out tohelp you to make those decisions
(26:31):
and and and take the time toresearch it. We're we're
googling everything else in theworld. You're about to share
some or be pretty vulnerablewith an individual.
So
Mike Gawliuk (26:42):
For sure. And again, I can I go I can go to my
experience, because I have donea couple EMDR sessions? And and
what I experienced in bothcases, it was it was two
separate counselors, is that,you didn't just go in and do a
session. Like, this wassomething that that built.
(27:03):
Right?
They explained what it was goingto involve, what it was going to
take, what it was going to looklike, what that experience would
involve, and really prepared, mefor that experience to come. And
and, of course, I did myhomework in terms of, who the
counselors were, their history,their experience, that kind of
(27:26):
thing. Their approach, and andtalking about not only the
positive outcomes, but where,where there could be, negative
outcomes, were were things thatwere helpful for me to make the
decision to go forward with thattype of treatment. I can say for
(27:48):
me, it was explained to me thatwhat it before and after, what
it would look like. And and Ican say from my experience,
talked about it, like, you havethere's a trauma that you have
in your life, and, and you holda certain level of emotion,
(28:09):
attached to that.
Right? Whatever that trauma is.And and someone explained to me
that, as you go through theprocess and as you, start to to
process the trauma, what comesout at the other end is that you
still see that experience, butthe emotional intensity that
(28:33):
you've attached to it or hasbeen attached to it, all the way
along, no longer exists. Mhmm.And for me, it was an experience
that, had to do with, a loss inmy, in my family.
And, when I was done, I waspretty mesmerized by the
outcome, and I could say it wassuper effective because the
(28:56):
scenario that would almost bringme to tears if I spent time
thinking about it now aftergoing through the process, could
see it loud and clear, couldstill go to that space, but the
the pain and and everything thatwas attached to it, had been
resolved. And I kinda went, wow.Like, this is this is, quite
(29:19):
amazing, and it was a a reallyhelpful and beneficial
experience for me. So, ofcourse, I would recommend it.
Jessica Samuels (29:26):
Mhmm.
Mike Gawliuk (29:26):
But I would recommend it under the
conditions that, again, it'swith a qualified, certified,
trained, therapist and that,they've demonstrated that
they've they've had that thattraining and they have those
credentials.
Jessica Samuels (29:42):
How long did it take you to get to that
resolution? Be you know, is sowhen when you had that relief
and that that transformationalexperience that you were talking
about.
Mike Gawliuk (29:54):
Yeah. I I'm trying to think back in terms of the
number of sessions that I had toYeah. To sort of understand the
process and then the build andto do a session, and some people
do more than, one session. Ithink I think for me, it was,
probably four or five sessionsis what that looked like, But
it's going to be different for,different people based on the
(30:17):
experience depending on what thetrauma is, how complex it is,
and and those sorts of things.
Jessica Samuels (30:23):
Okay. Well and and I appreciate you telling
that story because I I'm my hopeis that it will resonate, you
know, this whole conversation,but our personal experiences
will resonate with folks who aretuning into this. Have you ever
had a bad experience? Have youyou're like, nope. This is not
for me.
Mike Gawliuk (30:42):
I'm I'm trying to I've I've certainly heard of
people that have had lots of badexperiences. Yeah. I've had I
wouldn't say, like, horribleexperiences.
Jessica Samuels (30:55):
Like, I don't wanna be like, oh, it was so
bad.
Mike Gawliuk (30:57):
But you can't you kinda you know when you know.
Right? Like, if if if there ifthere isn't a connection there,
like, if it's just if it's not afit, it doesn't take long to
figure that out. Right? Yeah.
And and I think one of thethings with, with therapy and I
know historical research thatthey've done around common
(31:19):
factors in therapy, like, whatare the common factors that
actually, help to facilitatechange, the the therapeutic
alliance, the relationshipthat's built with the therapist
is always, like, up there, in
Jessica Samuels (31:36):
Which is so interesting to me. Like, it
makes sense if you've done it,but you have to, like, like the
person. You can't think they'rea jerk.
Mike Gawliuk (31:45):
Well, it's
Jessica Samuels (31:46):
There may be moments there may be moments in
your session where you aredisagreeing with them and you
think, but, I mean, overall, youhave to like them.
Mike Gawliuk (31:54):
Well, there has to be there has to be a
relationship
Jessica Samuels (31:56):
Yeah.
Mike Gawliuk (31:57):
That's built. There has to be a sense of, of
trust that gets, that gets builtthere, a certain sense of
credibility and a belief in theperson's skills and knowledge as
as well. So have I ever had abad experience? I wouldn't say
I've had a bad experience. HaveI had to make a choice where I
chose to go see someone else?
Yeah. And that was just becauseit wasn't it wasn't a fit, and I
(32:19):
knew it wasn't a fit. And therewas was no point going back
because it wasn't going to makea difference for me.
Jessica Samuels (32:25):
Well and you run the risk of of rejecting
what the person is saying to youjust because you don't have that
relationship with them asopposed to, really hearing them
and and following along withtheir advice. I mean, I I've had
that experience, and I rememberjust sitting there looking at
them. And for no reason, I'd beit was fine. I was just like,
yeah. I don't like what you'resaying.
(32:47):
And I I don't I didn't say that.Yeah. But I just knew that I was
having an emotional response tothe individual, and maybe if
somebody else had said it, Imight have had a different
response. You know, some otherconsiderations too that we have
to talk about and as just as weget prepared to wrap up here is,
their availability and yourbudget. So we definitely went
(33:08):
across the gamut of thedifferent types of psychiatry,
psychology, and counseling andall the ones we've talked about.
And we recognize that budget isgoing to play a big role in
that. And it's no secret toanyone that, you know, the
system is woefully underserved,and stretched to the limits. And
and there are free options outthere, but even even the the the
(33:31):
the pay services are are arequite, you know, overbooked.
Mike Gawliuk (33:35):
For sure. I I it goes back to one of our previous
podcasts around the state ofmental health in Canada and the
reality that, we need a moresignificant investment in
counseling so that the 2,500,000people who are in need that
aren't getting help in thecountry would have access to
(33:55):
that.
Jessica Samuels (33:56):
Mhmm.
Mike Gawliuk (33:57):
So so there's a reality. What I would say is,
yes, there are free servicesthat are available. Again,
Foundry, it's a walk incounseling model, free of
charge. We've got a virtualcounseling program that, again,
is free of charge. There'splaces like Third Space, which
also, serve young adults, thatare are free services and then
(34:22):
other organizations within thecommunity that are either a
sliding scale, or or freeservices.
Mhmm. In terms of accessing, ofcourse, there's the public
system, which is, free. And sodepending on your age,
certainly, if you're a youngperson, you can start at
(34:43):
Foundry. Child and youth mentalhealth through MCFD provides
services for young people up to19, and then Interior Health
provides services for those 19.Those services are free of
charge.
If you are, through work, if youhave a benefit program, you may
(35:04):
have either an employeeassistance program that you can
access that would be coveredthrough your benefits and or
your benefit, may also include,like, paraprofessional support.
So, that could include,psychological services,
counseling, those those pieces.So if you're, if if you if
(35:26):
you're working, and you have abenefit plan, I would say take a
look into that too because,those sessions may be covered
through your benefit plan. Sothere's many different ways to
access help. Again,unfortunately, as we know, we
need more of it.
Mhmm. And, and what I know isfrom my experience, it sounds
(35:52):
like from your experience, whenyou get the right fit and and
and you're able to engage, incounseling, it certainly can
make a significant difference inyour life. And, you know, I
wanna wanna certainly speak tothe value of it and encourage
(36:13):
anybody that's considering it,that it can be well worth, your
time. Right.
Jessica Samuels (36:20):
Mike, thank you so much for this discussion.
Mike Gawliuk (36:22):
Yeah. Thank you.
Jessica Samuels (36:24):
We have covered a lot of information today. We,
will have some of those links onthe A Way Forward podcast page
presented by Beam Credit Unionon the c m a j kelona dot org
website. We'll have some linksto some of the types of
counseling, of course, some ofthose resources that Mike just
mentioned as well. And if youhave any questions about this
(36:47):
topic or any of the topics wecover, you can always email us
at a way forward at c m h acolona dot org. In the meantime,
please take good care.
Beam Credit Union supportsmental health initiatives across
British Columbia because caringfor each other builds stronger,
more connected communities.United as one, Beam's founding
(37:08):
credit unions now serve 190,000members across BC.
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