March 5, 2024 • 32 mins
Reflecting on the iconic "Nine to Five" documentary resonates deeply with us, as it does with so many who've witnessed the seismic shifts in women's roles throughout history. In our latest episode, the three of us – Marlena, Jamie, and Christy – celebrate Women's History Month by weaving personal family tales into a broader narrative of women's long march towards workplace equality. We laugh, we lament, and we honor the daring steps taken by women who came before us, sharing a heartfelt tribute to those who fought tenaciously for the rights and opportunities we often take for granted today.
The professional landscape for women has been a battlefield of both triumph and trial, and this episode doesn't shy away from the gritty details. From my mother's breakthrough from the automotive grind to the tech wave, to the stories of our own professional endeavors in administration and law, we lay bare the stark realities of the past and present. We stitch together the heritage of women's suffrage, the unfinished symphony of the Equal Rights Amendment, and the personal choices that define the modern woman. It's a candid look at where we've come from and the ongoing struggle for a world where one's gender doesn't dictate their professional destiny.
We wrap up our discussion with a laser-focused look at the stubborn issues of gender pay disparity and the perpetual fight against workplace discrimination. Echoing through our conversation are stories of resilience in the face of inequality – a patchwork of voices from women, the LGBTQ community, and people of color. We scrutinize the slow crawl of progress, acknowledging the strides made and the mountains yet to climb. Our episode is not just a conversation but a clarion call to listeners to join the pursuit of an equitable future, as we celebrate the courage and grit that continue to push society forward.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome to A Witch, a Mystic and a Feminist with your
hosts Marlena, jamie andChristy.
Today, our episode is in honorof Women's History Month, and we
are going to examine anddiscuss the evolution of women
in the workplace.
Jamie, marlena.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hello ladies.
What a topic this is.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Woo.
Yes, one of the things that wedid thanks to Jamie was Jamie
had found this documentary onNetflix nine to five, and there
was so much information in therethat I really was unaware of I
didn't realize that nine to fiveand, for those of us in our age
bracket, we watched that moviewith Donald Parton All the time.
(00:51):
Yeah, you know, we sing thesong and but I didn't realize
that nine to five was based offof this activist.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Yeah, I found it in when we were researching topics
for this month and wanting to dosomething focused on women's
history.
We had to single out like anactual topic, because it's so
broad, there's so many things.
We would talk for hours aboutwomen's history.
So we decided to discuss womenin the workforce and our
involvement and I found thisdocumentary and, same as you,
(01:23):
marlena, I had no idea thatthat's what inspired the movie
and as a child watching it, Iwatched it because my mom
watched it and it was funny andit was satirical and it was like
I didn't realize how importantthat movie was, especially for
where women just came from andwhat they were still fighting
(01:45):
for in the eighties.
So it was very interesting.
Watching that, I have a wholenew perspective on the movie,
but I loved it.
I still watch nine to five likethe actual movie, like maybe a
few months ago, because it'slike a comfort movie for me.
My mom watched it all the timeand it was just so funny.
It was just it was a funnymovie but it's so real.
(02:07):
Yeah, it's kind of disturbinghow realistic that movie was at
that time.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
I haven't watched the movie for a long time, but I do
remember.
I do remember that the boss,the male boss, was just very
chauvinistic and just a dick andso they were planning on
killing him, which is funny.
I mean, at some point I thinkeverybody at one point in time
(02:36):
is like, oh my God, I want tokill my boss.
We don't actually mean it.
It's one of those things thatare said.
But in this and it's a comedyand it's funny but there's a lot
of things that we're actuallytranspiring during that time of
treating women like they're lessthan and in the documentary,
(02:57):
women were basically doingclerical jobs, basically told
you, don't have to go to college, just go get a job as a
secretary, kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Yeah, clerical and administrative, secretarial,
that's what they were held to,even if they did have an
education.
That was the field that wasdeemed for women not to be in
powerful positions, not indirector positions, not in a
position to make decisions.
And I think that's where theywere forced to start and forced
(03:28):
to stay into when they startedin the workforce.
And I even interviewed my momin talking to her, because she's
been working ever since she was18 years old and with the same
company.
And so, 18 years old, shestarted working in the 60s, when
the movements were reallystarting to happen.
(03:49):
She said, yeah, I started offin accounting as a clerical
assistant.
And she's like, granted, Ididn't, I didn't finish college,
I was just starting college,like I was in my second semester
of junior college and, ofcourse, like that just seems a
fitting position.
I don't have any experience,I'm going to start somewhere.
But she did say that, yeah,women in her department and in
(04:11):
the company at that time in the60s and 70s, were very much held
to this is your lane, your lane, you are either clerical or a
secretary and that's it.
And she said it was just.
You didn't really think muchabout it then and I think
because she didn't really havethe education yet.
(04:31):
She didn't question it Likethis is where I fit in right now
, right, but yeah, very much.
So from the beginning, womenwere like this is your lane and
don't step out of it and don'tstep out of it.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
So well, I mean, but even if we go back farther, and
not even that far in history,because I did interview my mom
and I know originally I told youguys, I don't think my
grandma's, you know, reallyworked.
I was so wrong, so wrong.
They're like, excuse me, I meanlike, yeah, my mom's, like they
did work.
I was like, oh okay, yeah, mylike, my grandma worked as like
(05:06):
a housekeeper and a nanny to putherself kind of through high
school and she actually movedfrom Vermont to Massachusetts to
do this for this family thather family knew, and it was
terrible work and not fun at all, but she was able to finish
high school by working this joband and then she met my grandpa
(05:27):
and then she was a waitress forlike a day and had a ruptured
appendix and then the owner ofthat shop actually paid for a
whole or medical bills for somereason, but she never went back.
And then she worked at ahospital, in like a lab, and it
was kind of the gist of it waslike who she knew, right, like
that was how she was gettingthese shops, like somebody knew
(05:48):
you know, those kinds of things.
But my Nana was a secretary,right, so that kind of that fits
in.
Like that was what she didbefore she had kids, and so,
yeah, those positions.
And then, even farther back,like my great grandma, she was a
teacher and she lived duringthe time where, once they got
married, they could no longerteach.
(06:09):
So they had to make thedecision am I going to get
married and stop teaching orcontinue teaching?
So it was right around the1900s this was happening and she
, when she got married, theyfired her.
You're done here.
Wow, yeah, which is terrible,right, like so.
So, yeah, just a little.
You know history on my side,but very interesting to me that
(06:33):
all the women in my family hadsome sort of job going back a
couple of generations, whetherit was clerical or laundry.
Taking in other people'slaundry to make ends meet and
washing it, like that was one ofthe jobs.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Yeah, that's crazy.
Yeah, my, my Nana.
So all my dad said to thefamily I don't know much about
my grandmother but my Nana on mymom's side of the family.
So she was a teacher in Guamand I had asked my mom if she
continued teaching after she hadstarted having children my mom
(07:09):
is one of eight and after havinga few kids they then came over
to the States and in the Statesshe didn't work, but again, you
know she was taking care of akid.
So, yeah, kind of difficult towork.
So I don't know much about herlife in Guam.
I just know that she was ateacher Prior to coming over to
(07:32):
the States.
My mom, however, didn't get aninto any clerical jobs.
She went into the automotivefield, started in retail selling
tires and batteries and thenbecame a, just continued to work
her way up.
She became a parts manager andthen I Know another manager, but
(07:56):
then she became like the storemanager.
So my mom's actually had twodifferent careers.
She started off in automotiveand managing stores and I had
asked her.
I said you know, was there anyLike?
Did the guys give you a hardtime?
Because you know she's backthere with the mechanics and
everything and and she never hadany issues with them.
(08:19):
She said that they were alwaysvery respectful to her.
Even though she didn't knowmuch about the cars themselves
and engines and how you know howto do all of that stuff, they
were always very respectful toher.
She never had anything likethat.
And then she went into tech.
So the big tech boom.
(08:40):
My mom had had a limitededucation but she went in there
and she killed it at thebeginning of the tech game and
you know, it's something I'm I'msuper proud of my mom for.
I went into being a secretary.
I started off as a legalsecretary.
I was a secretary and I wouldliterally bring my my boss's
(09:00):
coffee.
There's been a couple bosseswhere I would go and pick up
their dry cleaning, you know aswell as like doing all of my
legal work and but I continuedto stay in administration, now
manage law firms, but so I'mlike, oh, you know, my mom
(09:23):
didn't go through that, but I'mI'm going through that, but
we'll get into that later.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Now it's.
It's nice that it's a choice,right, because I'm in
administration too.
I've always been inadministration.
I've been, I'm always thebehind the scenes running their
operations.
I don't want to be thesalesperson and making all those
decisions, and I've also beenin the automotive industry since
I was 20.
So now it's nice that it was a.
It's a choice.
(09:49):
You know, I can choose to be asecretary, I can choose to be,
you know, administration,whatever.
Whereas this is where you fitin, this is where you, if you
want to work, this is whatyou're chosen for.
And then it was also teacherroles, right.
So teachers, education, daycare, childcare, those were the
roles driven for women, andstill very much caretakers.
(10:11):
So not just at home with thechildren, but also in your job.
Um, that's the role thatthey've just always seen for
women.
And in doing some research forthis particular show, I think it
really blew my mind.
Um, first of all, of course,the struggle of women over time
(10:31):
period.
So I mean, it's it's been astruggle, it still is for women,
uh, in this day and age.
Um, but I was really blown awaywith how recent the movements
have started um in the lasthundred years, will say and how
we still don't have certainthings Past or ratified in the
(10:55):
constitution.
For example, talking, we're ina voting year or an election
year, but 1920 the 19thamendment to the constitution is
ratified, ensuring the right ofwomen to vote.
So Just a hundred years ago wegot our you know what?
104 years ago, we had our rightto vote actually added to the
(11:16):
constitution.
I mean, my god, there's peoplewho have lived that long and
they're just now.
You know, we just got thatright in 1920.
Like that.
It just blows my mind.
I guess the timeline just Killsme, because I think, wow, this
is not that long ago.
Um, and then, just a few yearslater, 1923, the first version
of the eora, the equal rightsamendment, is Introduced and it
(11:39):
actually says men and womenshall have equal rights
throughout the united states andevery place subject to its
Jurisdiction.
This really bothered me becauseI I don't know if I'm just
ignorant to history, because Idon't, I don't know, I just
don't know my, my history.
But the fact that it's stillnot ratified, I think I just
thought it was, I just thoughtit was part of the constitution.
(12:02):
Now Come to find out like what,40 years later, we're still
trying to get this done.
Um, we tried to pass it and In1982 it was finally like Nope,
sorry, we didn't get enoughstates to ratify it.
The ra is still not part of ourconstitution, which blows my
(12:23):
mind Right.
I can't believe it.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
I'm obviously ignorant to history as well,
because I really thought thatthat was something that was like
a given.
It's like a break.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
It's obvious Like are you Seriously?
And I think what even moreblows my mind is that we do have
very progressive women now, andI mean we have an
African-American female vicepresident we had, you know.
We have women on the SupremeCourt, we have women in
legislations, they're everywhereand yet we can't get the ERA
(12:55):
ratified.
Like what is wrong with us?
Why can't we get this into ourConstitution?
And I also found a lot of womenover time who were very much
against the ERA.
Because you're destroying thehome picture, you're taking away
families because the mom's notat home now and you're breaking
(13:16):
that up.
And why would I want to have,you know that equal right of my
husband?
It's his job to work and it'smy job to raise the family.
Like I just get very annoyed,yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
I mean and I think that's on their part ignorance,
maybe right, because they're notunderstanding.
It's not.
We're not taking away anything.
We're giving you the right Likewe want everyone to have the
same right to work.
If you choose to stay at homeand keep that picture where the
husband goes out and works andyou stay home with the kids,
that's your choice.
We're actually fighting foryour choice.
We're, you know, we're wantingto get that ratified for you and
(13:55):
then you can make whateverchoice you want in this world.
But people don't understandthat and they just think we're
trying to take something awayand break up the beautiful home
picture.
Break up the nuclear family.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
And you know what about the women who don't want
children?
Like that's okay, right, youknow.
And being told you can't beprogressive because you have to
stay home, because you're awoman Like that's not okay.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
You know, in my home with Vince and Alexis, I had
Alexis.
I went back five weekspostpartum after having a
cesarean and, you know, couldhave taken a couple weeks,
couple more weeks off, but I wasthe one that pursued my career
and Vince, you know, took careof Alexis.
(14:42):
There were days where I tookAlexis to school maybe once or
twice a year, whereas he wastaking Alexis to school all the
time and filling that role.
We just had, you know kind of arole exchange One, because I
always commuted and he alwaysworked close to home.
(15:05):
But also just it made sense forus Right.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Did people, did people ever have a hard time
with that?
Yes, yes, because we had asimilar role reversal for a
couple years where Brian stayedhome with the kids and I worked,
and I can't tell you the amountof people that, just like, I
don't think they belittled Brian, but I do think they thought
less of him because he was a manstaying at home with the kids.
Yeah, but it was a choice forus, right, like it was the right
(15:33):
choice for us, and I pursued mycareer like you did In that
time made more money, so it madesense for me to pursue the
career, right, and he waswilling to stay at home with the
kids when they were little andit was amazing.
But, just yeah, people had areally hard time wrapping their
minds around it.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Still, Right, and for me it wasn't anybody in our
families, but it was those in,you know, like on the outside,
on the outskirts, yeah, likesome of my family members,
friends or whatever would havean opinion about our home life,
you know, and our choices, and Iwas like, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Yeah, and why do you care?
Like in my life, Don't worryabout it.
Yeah, so, yeah.
So I think in doing thistimeline and doing some of the
research for important dates,you know it blew me away to
think that the ERA still hasn'tpassed.
There's actually been kind of arebirth of it.
(16:38):
We actually got the 38th stateto sign because we needed 38 out
of the 50 to ratify it and putit into the Constitution.
The 38th state signed it onlike in 2019, I think it was, or
2020.
So Nevada, being my state, nowonly signed it off in like 2017.
(17:01):
So now here we are.
We got 38 states, but it'salmost what 30, 40 years after
we should have passed it becauseit's expired now.
So now it has to be allreintroduced again, put back on
I don't know what do you call it, the docket that I don't know
for people to.
We have to start all over,basically, and it's just, it's
(17:22):
ridiculous.
It wasn't and even justthinking about all these
ridiculous things, it wasn'tuntil 1963 that the Equal Pay
Act is actually passed byCongress, which promises
equitable wages for both forsame work, regardless of race,
color, religion, national originor sex of the worker.
So it wasn't until 1963 thatour country actually said, oh,
(17:45):
we should do this.
That makes sense, Like I mean,and it probably wasn't, like you
know, the president whosuggested it was probably some
group of women, maybe the nineto five movement, that all
decided, wow, this is not right.
And so, you know, women havealready been in the workforce.
In 1963, we decided to make payequal.
(18:05):
That's amazing.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
But was it really equal?
Speaker 2 (18:09):
during that time.
No, I still don't think it was,but it was a law.
And now you know you have tofight against men to prove that.
And well, in 1968, I don't knowhow far that went.
So yeah, you're supposed to,though it's a law.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
It's a law, but there's still.
There's still studies thatwomen make what 75% of men's or
something like that.
I don't know their actualstatistic, but I've seen it Gosh
in the last couple years we'llsee.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
So that timeline, you know, being in the 60s, I
didn't know it went that farback that it actually that
passed a law, because I don'tfeel that I have an age, not age
.
There's a pay discrepancy, buthearing about it, you know it's
been more recent than that.
You know, hearing about the paydiscrepancies with men and
(19:05):
women that you know this lawpassed in the 60s but no one has
ever been able to enforce it.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
I don't know you know , it's a law, so why aren't
people doing these things right?
Speaker 1 (19:16):
I don't understand that's not appelled, why it's
not regulated, why it's not.
You know what I mean.
Investigate it.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
You need a whole committee and then someone to
crack the whip and say I'm theequal pay police.
You're breaking the law.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Yeah, but I mean really, I thought it was like
back in the 80s that that lawpassed, not back in the 60s, oh,
1963.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Yeah, right, yeah, and then yeah, go ahead, christy
.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
I guess the act says that they get equal pay for
equal job, equitable wage.
Yeah, for the same work,equitable wage.
So maybe we're talking abouttwo different things that are
related, because there's thewage gap, right.
So just women making 17% lessthan men in 2022, just on
average, right?
But then we're talking about ifI worked the same job as Vince,
(20:07):
will I get paid the same amount, right, by the same company?
So maybe two different things,but yeah, still sucky, still
going on.
Yeah, yeah, in 2024.
Yeah, it is still sucky yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
And just a year later , 1964, title VII of the Civil
Rights Act passes prohibitingsex discrimination in employment
.
The Equal EmploymentOpportunity Commission is
created.
So in 1964, they're saying nosex discrimination in employment
, which I think of the moviethat we watched, the documentary
(20:49):
, I think of the movements thatwere going on during that time.
I don't think it really changedanything.
Just women had the opportunityto challenge it.
Now, right.
So if they thought there wassex discrimination happening in
their role or in the company,now they had this Civil Rights
(21:11):
Act to say look, you're doingsomething wrong and right here
says I can challenge that.
So it is important.
I just don't know how much itchanged because it's still an
issue I definitely.
I don't think I have experiencedin my career anything
personally towards me,definitely being in the
(21:33):
automotive industry.
Here were the good old boysalesman kind of mentality in
the industry In my particularplace of business.
I don't feel like I everexperienced it, saw it with the
men who were there, butdefinitely observed it from afar
(21:56):
with others and even talking tomy mom.
I asked her.
I said you know, and maybe Idon't know, maybe it's because,
like we were in California andsame with you know, your mom,
marlena, and I'm Christy I'm notsure if that your whole family
came up in California.
I don't know if it's because ofthe state, but my mom said you
know what I really didn'texperience sex discrimination or
(22:20):
being overlooked for a new jobbecause I was a woman, she goes.
I really felt education held meback because once I started
working I didn't finish mycollege degree, so if I was up
for a role against someone elsewho had a degree, they always
got picked first.
So right.
(22:41):
But when she talked about it,she goes.
I will say, though, for me atleast, where I was working,
discrimination was like rampedwith the LGBTQ community.
What else did she say?
I have to look at that, butshe's oh, and racism, still race
discrimination?
She said that's where I sawmore than against the genders,
(23:03):
it was racism and discriminationagainst the LGBTQ community.
She said that was just likethat was not a discussion, and
definitely people from thatcommunity who were very open
about who they were weredefinitely challenged in their
positions.
And she said because sheeventually retired in an HR role
(23:25):
and she worked adamantlyagainst you know anything of
that nature, of course, butthat's what she saw growing up
and working as a female in theindustry, so maybe a little bit
different.
She did say there wasdefinitely clothing restrictions
.
Women had to wear their skirtsand dresses and pantyhose.
(23:47):
They weren't allowed to wearpants.
Very much had to look feminine,if you will.
But she said, as a female shegoes.
I really had progressivemanagers and bosses and they
knew I fit the role, I would getthat job or I would get that
project.
But she did say she had tofight for herself a little bit
(24:10):
when it came to an educationdilemma.
But she kind of built a namefor herself and progressively
kept working her way up.
She stayed with the samecompany until she retired.
So yeah, her experience is alittle bit different.
I don't know if that's becauseit's California.
I mean the nine to fivemovement happened back east in
(24:31):
New York, so they're supposed tobe progressive too.
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
I'm not sure, but I know my mom with her automotive
career.
When she started being theactual manager of the entire
operation, she was only one ofthree women.
My mom's a woman in a person ofcolor and in this
male-dominated field, and sothat was the only thing that she
(24:59):
noticed.
But it was a job that she endedup getting.
And then, as far as in the techindustry, when she went into
that again, she didn't feel anydiscrimination based off of sex
or even being a person of color.
But talking about clothing andstuff like that, being in the
(25:21):
legal field, female attorneyswhen they went to court for a
long time had to wear skirts.
They had to wear skirt suits.
They couldn't wear pants suits.
Even just a few years back itwas frowned upon Women would
wear pants suits, but it waspreferred that they wear skirts.
Not this current firm that Iwork for, but the firm before
(25:44):
that.
There were, I want to say, 10partners For the longest time,
only one female partner.
Then I went over to my currentfirm, and before we merged it
was predominantly femalepartners and people of color,
(26:06):
which was another reason why Iwent with that firm too was
because of the fact that themajority of the partners were
women.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Yeah, I'd like to know when the pantyhose went
away.
I feel like in the 80s.
I still remember my mom wearingpantyhose and the knee highs.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
I wore pantyhose to the office.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Yeah, I don't.
I'm like when did it go away?
Because I think about it nowand this might sound not so
progressive of me, but I'm likewhen did we go bare-legged Like
we wear dresses now?
In the 2000s, in the 2000s?
Speaker 3 (26:38):
right In the 2000s, because I was working in San
Francisco for a large firm andwe had to wear pantyhose if we
wore skirts.
That was around the time Alexiswas born, so around 2006.
Okay, but we also had rules inour policies and procedures
handbook that we couldn't haveany tattoos that could be seen
(27:02):
and things like that no noserings.
Now I have tattoos and noserings and I don't wear pantyhose
.
I mean, you know so, but Ithink it was probably around
between 2000s, 2005, 2010, when,like the pantyhose, people just
stopped wearing them.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Yeah, yeah, I stopped wearing them much earlier.
But my Christian school I hadto wear, you had to wear skirts,
you didn't have to wearpantyhose, but everyone wore
knee highs because you wanted tolook cool.
But yeah, and then after that Iwas like there is no way I'm
putting pantyhose back on Likethese.
It's just I mean, and I'm pale,so like if anyone should wear
(27:41):
pantyhose it's probably me, butI just spend more time in the
sun trying to get naturally alittle bit less white so
everyone can deal with my whitebut, yeah, my white legs,
because pantyhose are notcomfortable.
I don't understand.
They're not.
They are not.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
I remember wearing the knee high one, sometimes
under pants because I had heelson or whatever.
And I'm like these are stillnot comfortable.
I don't like these.
But I was just thinking becausethat's always been a thing
right Like skirt, stresses,pantyhose you could not come
into the office.
Now, if you're wearing a skirtor a dress, great, wear your
pantyhose, like you couldn'tcome bare-legged.
(28:18):
So I was just sitting herethinking like when did that
change?
Because I do remember my momhaving to wear pantyhose and
everything when I got into theindustry in the late 90s.
I don't recall having to, but Ialso didn't wear a lot of
dresses.
So anyways, it's a fascinatingand eye-opening journey of a
(28:41):
timeline and we could touch onthe three pages of bullet points
that I put.
But to know that we have womenof color and in powerful,
powerful positions and yetsimple laws like you would think
the ERA would be a no-braineris still not ratified, just
(29:04):
blows my mind.
I'm grateful for what the womenhave done prior to our
generation, the fight thatthey've put up for us to better
our futures and our daughtersand going forward, I think
Stella, my daughter, will have amillion more opportunities than
(29:25):
even our mothers maybe did orour grandmothers, and I'm
adamantly grateful for that.
Anything that has to do withwomen, empowerment, fuels my
fire.
It's everything to make it abetter world for our girls going
forward and for us.
I think the three of us havebeen pretty fortunate that for
the most part, we haven't hadthose battles.
(29:48):
For the most part, let's behonest.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
Yeah, I mean that's.
One thing that I'm reallygrateful for is that for the
women that have stood up forwomen in the workforce, they did
so so that I didn't have tofeel the things that they felt
go through, the things thatthey've gone through, and so
(30:10):
grateful to them for paving thatway.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean we could do a wholeepisode on the Me Too movement.
Obviously, the battles andstruggles of women are still out
there and very much a challenge.
Men wanting and using theirpower to get what they want is
still an issue, but I think it'scoming out in those forms now,
(30:35):
versus just you can't bepromoted because you're a female
.
Now it's you want to move up.
These are the things I need andthe Me Too movement has really
highlighted that and we could doa whole episode on that and we
will.
Yeah, maybe we will, but again,very grateful for all of our
women before us who have foughtso hard to make this a better
life for us.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
So happy Women's History.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Month.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Yeah, and with that, thank you for joining us on
another episode of A Witch, aMystic and a Feminist.
Please go to wmfpodcom to lookat past episodes and interact
with us and then, wherever youget your podcast, please like
and subscribe.
We would really, reallyappreciate the support and we
will see you next week.
(31:19):
Bye.
Welcome to A Witch, a Mystic and a Feminist with your
hosts Marlena, jamie andChristy.
Today, our episode is in honorof Women's History Month, and we
are going to examine anddiscuss the evolution of women
in the workplace.
Jamie, marlena.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hello ladies.
What a topic this is.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Woo.
Yes, one of the things that wedid thanks to Jamie was Jamie
had found this documentary onNetflix nine to five, and there
was so much information in therethat I really was unaware of I
didn't realize that nine to fiveand, for those of us in our age
bracket, we watched that moviewith Donald Parton All the time.
(00:51):
Yeah, you know, we sing thesong and but I didn't realize
that nine to five was based offof this activist.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Yeah, I found it in when we were researching topics
for this month and wanting to dosomething focused on women's
history.
We had to single out like anactual topic, because it's so
broad, there's so many things.
We would talk for hours aboutwomen's history.
So we decided to discuss womenin the workforce and our
involvement and I found thisdocumentary and, same as you,
(01:23):
marlena, I had no idea thatthat's what inspired the movie
and as a child watching it, Iwatched it because my mom
watched it and it was funny andit was satirical and it was like
I didn't realize how importantthat movie was, especially for
where women just came from andwhat they were still fighting
(01:45):
for in the eighties.
So it was very interesting.
Watching that, I have a wholenew perspective on the movie,
but I loved it.
I still watch nine to five likethe actual movie, like maybe a
few months ago, because it'slike a comfort movie for me.
My mom watched it all the timeand it was just so funny.
It was just it was a funnymovie but it's so real.
(02:07):
Yeah, it's kind of disturbinghow realistic that movie was at
that time.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
I haven't watched the movie for a long time, but I do
remember.
I do remember that the boss,the male boss, was just very
chauvinistic and just a dick andso they were planning on
killing him, which is funny.
I mean, at some point I thinkeverybody at one point in time
(02:36):
is like, oh my God, I want tokill my boss.
We don't actually mean it.
It's one of those things thatare said.
But in this and it's a comedyand it's funny but there's a lot
of things that we're actuallytranspiring during that time of
treating women like they're lessthan and in the documentary,
(02:57):
women were basically doingclerical jobs, basically told
you, don't have to go to college, just go get a job as a
secretary, kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Yeah, clerical and administrative, secretarial,
that's what they were held to,even if they did have an
education.
That was the field that wasdeemed for women not to be in
powerful positions, not indirector positions, not in a
position to make decisions.
And I think that's where theywere forced to start and forced
(03:28):
to stay into when they startedin the workforce.
And I even interviewed my momin talking to her, because she's
been working ever since she was18 years old and with the same
company.
And so, 18 years old, shestarted working in the 60s, when
the movements were reallystarting to happen.
(03:49):
She said, yeah, I started offin accounting as a clerical
assistant.
And she's like, granted, Ididn't, I didn't finish college,
I was just starting college,like I was in my second semester
of junior college and, ofcourse, like that just seems a
fitting position.
I don't have any experience,I'm going to start somewhere.
But she did say that, yeah,women in her department and in
(04:11):
the company at that time in the60s and 70s, were very much held
to this is your lane, your lane, you are either clerical or a
secretary and that's it.
And she said it was just.
You didn't really think muchabout it then and I think
because she didn't really havethe education yet.
(04:31):
She didn't question it Likethis is where I fit in right now
, right, but yeah, very much.
So from the beginning, womenwere like this is your lane and
don't step out of it and don'tstep out of it.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
So well, I mean, but even if we go back farther, and
not even that far in history,because I did interview my mom
and I know originally I told youguys, I don't think my
grandma's, you know, reallyworked.
I was so wrong, so wrong.
They're like, excuse me, I meanlike, yeah, my mom's, like they
did work.
I was like, oh okay, yeah, mylike, my grandma worked as like
(05:06):
a housekeeper and a nanny to putherself kind of through high
school and she actually movedfrom Vermont to Massachusetts to
do this for this family thather family knew, and it was
terrible work and not fun at all, but she was able to finish
high school by working this joband and then she met my grandpa
(05:27):
and then she was a waitress forlike a day and had a ruptured
appendix and then the owner ofthat shop actually paid for a
whole or medical bills for somereason, but she never went back.
And then she worked at ahospital, in like a lab, and it
was kind of the gist of it waslike who she knew, right, like
that was how she was gettingthese shops, like somebody knew
(05:48):
you know, those kinds of things.
But my Nana was a secretary,right, so that kind of that fits
in.
Like that was what she didbefore she had kids, and so,
yeah, those positions.
And then, even farther back,like my great grandma, she was a
teacher and she lived duringthe time where, once they got
married, they could no longerteach.
(06:09):
So they had to make thedecision am I going to get
married and stop teaching orcontinue teaching?
So it was right around the1900s this was happening and she
, when she got married, theyfired her.
You're done here.
Wow, yeah, which is terrible,right, like so.
So, yeah, just a little.
You know history on my side,but very interesting to me that
(06:33):
all the women in my family hadsome sort of job going back a
couple of generations, whetherit was clerical or laundry.
Taking in other people'slaundry to make ends meet and
washing it, like that was one ofthe jobs.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Yeah, that's crazy.
Yeah, my, my Nana.
So all my dad said to thefamily I don't know much about
my grandmother but my Nana on mymom's side of the family.
So she was a teacher in Guamand I had asked my mom if she
continued teaching after she hadstarted having children my mom
(07:09):
is one of eight and after havinga few kids they then came over
to the States and in the Statesshe didn't work, but again, you
know she was taking care of akid.
So, yeah, kind of difficult towork.
So I don't know much about herlife in Guam.
I just know that she was ateacher Prior to coming over to
(07:32):
the States.
My mom, however, didn't get aninto any clerical jobs.
She went into the automotivefield, started in retail selling
tires and batteries and thenbecame a, just continued to work
her way up.
She became a parts manager andthen I Know another manager, but
(07:56):
then she became like the storemanager.
So my mom's actually had twodifferent careers.
She started off in automotiveand managing stores and I had
asked her.
I said you know, was there anyLike?
Did the guys give you a hardtime?
Because you know she's backthere with the mechanics and
everything and and she never hadany issues with them.
(08:19):
She said that they were alwaysvery respectful to her.
Even though she didn't knowmuch about the cars themselves
and engines and how you know howto do all of that stuff, they
were always very respectful toher.
She never had anything likethat.
And then she went into tech.
So the big tech boom.
(08:40):
My mom had had a limitededucation but she went in there
and she killed it at thebeginning of the tech game and
you know, it's something I'm I'msuper proud of my mom for.
I went into being a secretary.
I started off as a legalsecretary.
I was a secretary and I wouldliterally bring my my boss's
(09:00):
coffee.
There's been a couple bosseswhere I would go and pick up
their dry cleaning, you know aswell as like doing all of my
legal work and but I continuedto stay in administration, now
manage law firms, but so I'mlike, oh, you know, my mom
(09:23):
didn't go through that, but I'mI'm going through that, but
we'll get into that later.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Now it's.
It's nice that it's a choice,right, because I'm in
administration too.
I've always been inadministration.
I've been, I'm always thebehind the scenes running their
operations.
I don't want to be thesalesperson and making all those
decisions, and I've also beenin the automotive industry since
I was 20.
So now it's nice that it was a.
It's a choice.
(09:49):
You know, I can choose to be asecretary, I can choose to be,
you know, administration,whatever.
Whereas this is where you fitin, this is where you, if you
want to work, this is whatyou're chosen for.
And then it was also teacherroles, right.
So teachers, education, daycare, childcare, those were the
roles driven for women, andstill very much caretakers.
(10:11):
So not just at home with thechildren, but also in your job.
Um, that's the role thatthey've just always seen for
women.
And in doing some research forthis particular show, I think it
really blew my mind.
Um, first of all, of course,the struggle of women over time
(10:31):
period.
So I mean, it's it's been astruggle, it still is for women,
uh, in this day and age.
Um, but I was really blown awaywith how recent the movements
have started um in the lasthundred years, will say and how
we still don't have certainthings Past or ratified in the
(10:55):
constitution.
For example, talking, we're ina voting year or an election
year, but 1920 the 19thamendment to the constitution is
ratified, ensuring the right ofwomen to vote.
So Just a hundred years ago wegot our you know what?
104 years ago, we had our rightto vote actually added to the
(11:16):
constitution.
I mean, my god, there's peoplewho have lived that long and
they're just now.
You know, we just got thatright in 1920.
Like that.
It just blows my mind.
I guess the timeline just Killsme, because I think, wow, this
is not that long ago.
Um, and then, just a few yearslater, 1923, the first version
of the eora, the equal rightsamendment, is Introduced and it
(11:39):
actually says men and womenshall have equal rights
throughout the united states andevery place subject to its
Jurisdiction.
This really bothered me becauseI I don't know if I'm just
ignorant to history, because Idon't, I don't know, I just
don't know my, my history.
But the fact that it's stillnot ratified, I think I just
thought it was, I just thoughtit was part of the constitution.
(12:02):
Now Come to find out like what,40 years later, we're still
trying to get this done.
Um, we tried to pass it and In1982 it was finally like Nope,
sorry, we didn't get enoughstates to ratify it.
The ra is still not part of ourconstitution, which blows my
(12:23):
mind Right.
I can't believe it.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
I'm obviously ignorant to history as well,
because I really thought thatthat was something that was like
a given.
It's like a break.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
It's obvious Like are you Seriously?
And I think what even moreblows my mind is that we do have
very progressive women now, andI mean we have an
African-American female vicepresident we had, you know.
We have women on the SupremeCourt, we have women in
legislations, they're everywhereand yet we can't get the ERA
(12:55):
ratified.
Like what is wrong with us?
Why can't we get this into ourConstitution?
And I also found a lot of womenover time who were very much
against the ERA.
Because you're destroying thehome picture, you're taking away
families because the mom's notat home now and you're breaking
(13:16):
that up.
And why would I want to have,you know that equal right of my
husband?
It's his job to work and it'smy job to raise the family.
Like I just get very annoyed,yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
I mean and I think that's on their part ignorance,
maybe right, because they're notunderstanding.
It's not.
We're not taking away anything.
We're giving you the right Likewe want everyone to have the
same right to work.
If you choose to stay at homeand keep that picture where the
husband goes out and works andyou stay home with the kids,
that's your choice.
We're actually fighting foryour choice.
We're, you know, we're wantingto get that ratified for you and
(13:55):
then you can make whateverchoice you want in this world.
But people don't understandthat and they just think we're
trying to take something awayand break up the beautiful home
picture.
Break up the nuclear family.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
And you know what about the women who don't want
children?
Like that's okay, right, youknow.
And being told you can't beprogressive because you have to
stay home, because you're awoman Like that's not okay.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
You know, in my home with Vince and Alexis, I had
Alexis.
I went back five weekspostpartum after having a
cesarean and, you know, couldhave taken a couple weeks,
couple more weeks off, but I wasthe one that pursued my career
and Vince, you know, took careof Alexis.
(14:42):
There were days where I tookAlexis to school maybe once or
twice a year, whereas he wastaking Alexis to school all the
time and filling that role.
We just had, you know kind of arole exchange One, because I
always commuted and he alwaysworked close to home.
(15:05):
But also just it made sense forus Right.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Did people, did people ever have a hard time
with that?
Yes, yes, because we had asimilar role reversal for a
couple years where Brian stayedhome with the kids and I worked,
and I can't tell you the amountof people that, just like, I
don't think they belittled Brian, but I do think they thought
less of him because he was a manstaying at home with the kids.
Yeah, but it was a choice forus, right, like it was the right
(15:33):
choice for us, and I pursued mycareer like you did In that
time made more money, so it madesense for me to pursue the
career, right, and he waswilling to stay at home with the
kids when they were little andit was amazing.
But, just yeah, people had areally hard time wrapping their
minds around it.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Still, Right, and for me it wasn't anybody in our
families, but it was those in,you know, like on the outside,
on the outskirts, yeah, likesome of my family members,
friends or whatever would havean opinion about our home life,
you know, and our choices, and Iwas like, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Yeah, and why do you care?
Like in my life, Don't worryabout it.
Yeah, so, yeah.
So I think in doing thistimeline and doing some of the
research for important dates,you know it blew me away to
think that the ERA still hasn'tpassed.
There's actually been kind of arebirth of it.
(16:38):
We actually got the 38th stateto sign because we needed 38 out
of the 50 to ratify it and putit into the Constitution.
The 38th state signed it onlike in 2019, I think it was, or
2020.
So Nevada, being my state, nowonly signed it off in like 2017.
(17:01):
So now here we are.
We got 38 states, but it'salmost what 30, 40 years after
we should have passed it becauseit's expired now.
So now it has to be allreintroduced again, put back on
I don't know what do you call it, the docket that I don't know
for people to.
We have to start all over,basically, and it's just, it's
(17:22):
ridiculous.
It wasn't and even justthinking about all these
ridiculous things, it wasn'tuntil 1963 that the Equal Pay
Act is actually passed byCongress, which promises
equitable wages for both forsame work, regardless of race,
color, religion, national originor sex of the worker.
So it wasn't until 1963 thatour country actually said, oh,
(17:45):
we should do this.
That makes sense, Like I mean,and it probably wasn't, like you
know, the president whosuggested it was probably some
group of women, maybe the nineto five movement, that all
decided, wow, this is not right.
And so, you know, women havealready been in the workforce.
In 1963, we decided to make payequal.
(18:05):
That's amazing.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
But was it really equal?
Speaker 2 (18:09):
during that time.
No, I still don't think it was,but it was a law.
And now you know you have tofight against men to prove that.
And well, in 1968, I don't knowhow far that went.
So yeah, you're supposed to,though it's a law.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
It's a law, but there's still.
There's still studies thatwomen make what 75% of men's or
something like that.
I don't know their actualstatistic, but I've seen it Gosh
in the last couple years we'llsee.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
So that timeline, you know, being in the 60s, I
didn't know it went that farback that it actually that
passed a law, because I don'tfeel that I have an age, not age
.
There's a pay discrepancy, buthearing about it, you know it's
been more recent than that.
You know, hearing about the paydiscrepancies with men and
(19:05):
women that you know this lawpassed in the 60s but no one has
ever been able to enforce it.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
I don't know you know , it's a law, so why aren't
people doing these things right?
Speaker 1 (19:16):
I don't understand that's not appelled, why it's
not regulated, why it's not.
You know what I mean.
Investigate it.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
You need a whole committee and then someone to
crack the whip and say I'm theequal pay police.
You're breaking the law.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Yeah, but I mean really, I thought it was like
back in the 80s that that lawpassed, not back in the 60s, oh,
1963.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Yeah, right, yeah, and then yeah, go ahead, christy
.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
I guess the act says that they get equal pay for
equal job, equitable wage.
Yeah, for the same work,equitable wage.
So maybe we're talking abouttwo different things that are
related, because there's thewage gap, right.
So just women making 17% lessthan men in 2022, just on
average, right?
But then we're talking about ifI worked the same job as Vince,
(20:07):
will I get paid the same amount, right, by the same company?
So maybe two different things,but yeah, still sucky, still
going on.
Yeah, yeah, in 2024.
Yeah, it is still sucky yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
And just a year later , 1964, title VII of the Civil
Rights Act passes prohibitingsex discrimination in employment
.
The Equal EmploymentOpportunity Commission is
created.
So in 1964, they're saying nosex discrimination in employment
, which I think of the moviethat we watched, the documentary
(20:49):
, I think of the movements thatwere going on during that time.
I don't think it really changedanything.
Just women had the opportunityto challenge it.
Now, right.
So if they thought there wassex discrimination happening in
their role or in the company,now they had this Civil Rights
(21:11):
Act to say look, you're doingsomething wrong and right here
says I can challenge that.
So it is important.
I just don't know how much itchanged because it's still an
issue I definitely.
I don't think I have experiencedin my career anything
personally towards me,definitely being in the
(21:33):
automotive industry.
Here were the good old boysalesman kind of mentality in
the industry In my particularplace of business.
I don't feel like I everexperienced it, saw it with the
men who were there, butdefinitely observed it from afar
(21:56):
with others and even talking tomy mom.
I asked her.
I said you know, and maybe Idon't know, maybe it's because,
like we were in California andsame with you know, your mom,
marlena, and I'm Christy I'm notsure if that your whole family
came up in California.
I don't know if it's because ofthe state, but my mom said you
know what I really didn'texperience sex discrimination or
(22:20):
being overlooked for a new jobbecause I was a woman, she goes.
I really felt education held meback because once I started
working I didn't finish mycollege degree, so if I was up
for a role against someone elsewho had a degree, they always
got picked first.
So right.
(22:41):
But when she talked about it,she goes.
I will say, though, for me atleast, where I was working,
discrimination was like rampedwith the LGBTQ community.
What else did she say?
I have to look at that, butshe's oh, and racism, still race
discrimination?
She said that's where I sawmore than against the genders,
(23:03):
it was racism and discriminationagainst the LGBTQ community.
She said that was just likethat was not a discussion, and
definitely people from thatcommunity who were very open
about who they were weredefinitely challenged in their
positions.
And she said because sheeventually retired in an HR role
(23:25):
and she worked adamantlyagainst you know anything of
that nature, of course, butthat's what she saw growing up
and working as a female in theindustry, so maybe a little bit
different.
She did say there wasdefinitely clothing restrictions
.
Women had to wear their skirtsand dresses and pantyhose.
(23:47):
They weren't allowed to wearpants.
Very much had to look feminine,if you will.
But she said, as a female shegoes.
I really had progressivemanagers and bosses and they
knew I fit the role, I would getthat job or I would get that
project.
But she did say she had tofight for herself a little bit
(24:10):
when it came to an educationdilemma.
But she kind of built a namefor herself and progressively
kept working her way up.
She stayed with the samecompany until she retired.
So yeah, her experience is alittle bit different.
I don't know if that's becauseit's California.
I mean the nine to fivemovement happened back east in
(24:31):
New York, so they're supposed tobe progressive too.
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
I'm not sure, but I know my mom with her automotive
career.
When she started being theactual manager of the entire
operation, she was only one ofthree women.
My mom's a woman in a person ofcolor and in this
male-dominated field, and sothat was the only thing that she
(24:59):
noticed.
But it was a job that she endedup getting.
And then, as far as in the techindustry, when she went into
that again, she didn't feel anydiscrimination based off of sex
or even being a person of color.
But talking about clothing andstuff like that, being in the
(25:21):
legal field, female attorneyswhen they went to court for a
long time had to wear skirts.
They had to wear skirt suits.
They couldn't wear pants suits.
Even just a few years back itwas frowned upon Women would
wear pants suits, but it waspreferred that they wear skirts.
Not this current firm that Iwork for, but the firm before
(25:44):
that.
There were, I want to say, 10partners For the longest time,
only one female partner.
Then I went over to my currentfirm, and before we merged it
was predominantly femalepartners and people of color,
(26:06):
which was another reason why Iwent with that firm too was
because of the fact that themajority of the partners were
women.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Yeah, I'd like to know when the pantyhose went
away.
I feel like in the 80s.
I still remember my mom wearingpantyhose and the knee highs.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
I wore pantyhose to the office.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Yeah, I don't.
I'm like when did it go away?
Because I think about it nowand this might sound not so
progressive of me, but I'm likewhen did we go bare-legged Like
we wear dresses now?
In the 2000s, in the 2000s?
Speaker 3 (26:38):
right In the 2000s, because I was working in San
Francisco for a large firm andwe had to wear pantyhose if we
wore skirts.
That was around the time Alexiswas born, so around 2006.
Okay, but we also had rules inour policies and procedures
handbook that we couldn't haveany tattoos that could be seen
(27:02):
and things like that no noserings.
Now I have tattoos and noserings and I don't wear pantyhose
.
I mean, you know so, but Ithink it was probably around
between 2000s, 2005, 2010, when,like the pantyhose, people just
stopped wearing them.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Yeah, yeah, I stopped wearing them much earlier.
But my Christian school I hadto wear, you had to wear skirts,
you didn't have to wearpantyhose, but everyone wore
knee highs because you wanted tolook cool.
But yeah, and then after that Iwas like there is no way I'm
putting pantyhose back on Likethese.
It's just I mean, and I'm pale,so like if anyone should wear
(27:41):
pantyhose it's probably me, butI just spend more time in the
sun trying to get naturally alittle bit less white so
everyone can deal with my whitebut, yeah, my white legs,
because pantyhose are notcomfortable.
I don't understand.
They're not.
They are not.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
I remember wearing the knee high one, sometimes
under pants because I had heelson or whatever.
And I'm like these are stillnot comfortable.
I don't like these.
But I was just thinking becausethat's always been a thing
right Like skirt, stresses,pantyhose you could not come
into the office.
Now, if you're wearing a skirtor a dress, great, wear your
pantyhose, like you couldn'tcome bare-legged.
(28:18):
So I was just sitting herethinking like when did that
change?
Because I do remember my momhaving to wear pantyhose and
everything when I got into theindustry in the late 90s.
I don't recall having to, but Ialso didn't wear a lot of
dresses.
So anyways, it's a fascinatingand eye-opening journey of a
(28:41):
timeline and we could touch onthe three pages of bullet points
that I put.
But to know that we have womenof color and in powerful,
powerful positions and yetsimple laws like you would think
the ERA would be a no-braineris still not ratified, just
(29:04):
blows my mind.
I'm grateful for what the womenhave done prior to our
generation, the fight thatthey've put up for us to better
our futures and our daughtersand going forward, I think
Stella, my daughter, will have amillion more opportunities than
(29:25):
even our mothers maybe did orour grandmothers, and I'm
adamantly grateful for that.
Anything that has to do withwomen, empowerment, fuels my
fire.
It's everything to make it abetter world for our girls going
forward and for us.
I think the three of us havebeen pretty fortunate that for
the most part, we haven't hadthose battles.
(29:48):
For the most part, let's behonest.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
Yeah, I mean that's.
One thing that I'm reallygrateful for is that for the
women that have stood up forwomen in the workforce, they did
so so that I didn't have tofeel the things that they felt
go through, the things thatthey've gone through, and so
(30:10):
grateful to them for paving thatway.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean we could do a wholeepisode on the Me Too movement.
Obviously, the battles andstruggles of women are still out
there and very much a challenge.
Men wanting and using theirpower to get what they want is
still an issue, but I think it'scoming out in those forms now,
(30:35):
versus just you can't bepromoted because you're a female
.
Now it's you want to move up.
These are the things I need andthe Me Too movement has really
highlighted that and we could doa whole episode on that and we
will.
Yeah, maybe we will, but again,very grateful for all of our
women before us who have foughtso hard to make this a better
life for us.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
So happy Women's History.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Month.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Yeah, and with that, thank you for joining us on
another episode of A Witch, aMystic and a Feminist.
Please go to wmfpodcom to lookat past episodes and interact
with us and then, wherever youget your podcast, please like
and subscribe.
We would really, reallyappreciate the support and we
will see you next week.
(31:19):
Bye.
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