Embracing Change and Efficiency at Oklahoma DOT with Bryce Hanlon

Oklahoma DOT's Bryce Hanlon brings his proactive approach to geotechnical engineering processes. In this follow-up episode to S4 E07, he discusses the importance of effective communication, data management modernization, and how a unified team approach enhances project delivery and efficiency.

Related information:
S4 E07: Geotechnical Investigations at Oklahoma DOT

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Episode Transcript

Kim Swanson (00:03):
Welcome to AASHTO Resource Q&A.
We're taking time to discussconstruction materials, testing
and inspection with people inthe know.
From exploring testing problemsand solutions to laboratory
best practices and qualitymanagement, we're covering
topics important to you.

Brian Johnson (00:18):
Welcome to AASHTO Resource Q&A.
I am Brian Johnson.

Kim Swanson (00:22):
And I am Kim Swanson, and today we have a
guest with us and he's areturning guest.
So, brian, do you want tointroduce him, because I know
I'm not going to do it justice.

Brian Johnson (00:32):
Yeah, yeah, we're happy to have Bryce Hanlon back
from the Oklahoma DOTgeotechnical design engineer and
last when we spoke with Bryce,when we met Bryce, he was just a
DOT baby with one month oldexperience, under the tutelage

(00:53):
of quite a few reallyexperienced great people.
So at this point Bryce has gota year and a half under his belt
, uh, and quite a bit ofexperience.
So we're going to talk to himabout what's been going on there
and get some updates, uh,because we that that episode was
tracking pretty well.
So I think people will beinterested to hear what's going

(01:14):
on now.
So welcome.
Long intro.
I'll take it for bryce.
So, yeah, welcome b cool.

Bryce Hanlon (01:22):
Thank you guys, I appreciate it.

Brian Johnson (01:24):
After a year and a half moving from I mean quite
a few years Now.
You're not new to work.
I think in that episode you hadbeen with consulting firms for,
I think, 18 years, 18 years.

Bryce Hanlon (01:39):
Yeah, age is getting higher and higher pretty
quick.
But yeah, so I worked in theconsulting industry for over 18
years, so like right out of highschool, um, I worked in a lab,
a geotechnical lab.
I did drilling, you know, Ikind of did all the things that
a geotech engineer would do.
And then, yeah, I kind of madethe move over here in early 2023

(02:01):
, and you know the kind of themain early 2023.
And you know the kind of themain reason was it because I
kind of I saw that there was agap at the DOT level with
needing somebody to kind of helpwith geotechnical processes and
get kind of the geotechnicalindustry up to what I would say
would kind of be the necessarystandard.
You know, geotech is kind ofthe forgotten.

(02:23):
You know part of design quite abit.
So what I did was I kind of usedmy experience on the consulting
side to, you know, identifyissues kind of with our
processes here and kind of worktowards improving it.
And then I'm using a lot of mycontacts and resources with the

(02:45):
consultants to kind of get them,you know, informed on what our
plans are and get feedback fromthem on kind of just different
things, like you know ourprocesses are, you know kind of
how we do invoicing, just kindof all the day-to-day stuff that
like we kind of talked about.
It's not necessarilyengineering stuff, it's just how
can we get these projects donemore efficiently and, you know,

(03:08):
get everyone to where we canhave repeatable processes and,
um, you know, going forward,have a have a good, good future.
So it's it's.
It is a lot like I said,engineering is not really my,
it's not really my job anymore.
I'm an engineer, but it's.

Brian Johnson (03:22):
It's really kind of making sure all the
geotechnical engineeringthroughout the state gets done
correctly when you started ayear and a half ago, you had
some ideas about what you'd bedoing and and uh what.
What has changed for you, uh,as far as like what your
day-to-day job duties are as ageotechnical?

Bryce Hanlon (03:41):
engineer.
Whenever we did this first time.
Odot was just kind of doingthis modernization initiative
thing where all the designgroups are going to be kind of
grouped together.
We had a very separated.
We had a roadway division,bridge division, geotech was
kind of a.
We had a geotech engineerwithin the bridge group, we had
a geotech engineer within thebridge group, we had a geotech

(04:04):
engineer, slash pavementengineer within the roadway
group and kind of what they wereseeing.
As those groups were kind ofgoing to be unifying in the
future, they needed to havesomebody come in to kind of work
with both of those groups.
But also with the increasedreliance on consultants for
completing a lot of the work,they need to have somebody to be

(04:26):
able to kind of lead thatcommunication while, you know,
being the central figure betweenthe like I said, the design
groups and the endo.
So I I, the company I workedfor as a consultant did a lot of
design work so I was kind ofthe in-house geotech engineer
for those.
So I understood how a lot ofthe DOT projects work.
So I basically came here andwork with the in-house engineers

(04:50):
here and the consultants.
So basically I'm kind of themiddleman but I kind of
understand all the sides, whichmakes it easier to get people
what they need and kind of beable to have everyone speak in
the same language.
I can speak both geotech anddesigner a little bit.
I'm more geotech but I'm morefluent in geotech, I would say,

(05:11):
but the designers I can at leastwith.
Working directly with thedesigners at my old company I
was able to kind of figure out.
You know, geotech is a milliondifferent things you can give
somebody, but you eventuallyfigure out what data is actually
important and how things needto be delivered so that they can
do what they need to doefficiently.

Kim Swanson (05:30):
Well, you say that you were a middleman, kind of
like it was a bad thing.
Middlemans are necessary.
They're so necessary, just likewhat you described.

Bryce Hanlon (05:38):
Yeah, I would have loved to have so.
Whenever I used to be aconsultant it was hard at the
DOT level, Like there wasn'treally someone here that you
could call.
That you felt like you know.
So whenever I had to call here,I would always have to call,
you know, either a bridgeengineer or a roadway engineer,
which is fine.
But then they don't understand.
Like so if you're out in thefield and you know, say it had

(06:00):
been raining for like two weeksand the site, the site was, was
wet, and you know I'm like, hey,we're not going to be able to
get out there, or hey, we needmore money for dozer work or all
this stuff, like they don'tunderstand the cost associated
with this stuff.
They didn't understand just thetime associated with this.
They didn't understand weatherdelays, because everybody that's
a designer never has weatherdelays.

(06:21):
You're inside every day, it's,it's great.
But with the geotech there'sall this, like you know, there's
all these variables that likejust you don't really, you know,
you can't, you can't.
Unless you've experienced it,you really don't still
understand kind of how things,how things go.
So we've got with me, you knowthat the geotech will come to me
.
Like a lot of times I'll getcalls from them in the field and
they're like you know I'mrunning into issue.
What do you think we should do?

(06:42):
You know I can either help themdirectly or I can be like, hey,
let me reach out to the bridgeengineer or the whatever you
know roadway engineer and belike, hey, you know they're
having this issue.
You know I've had this issue inthe past.
You know this is what I wouldrecommend.
We do, and typically we come toa solution that way.
But before there was no, youkind of were just you'd hope

(07:03):
that they'd accept it.
Or sometimes you just have toeat the cost because you still
have to get the work done,obviously.
But yeah, that's a whole youknow getting paid for all the
work that's required to finishthese projects.
That was a big, you know,initiative that I helped with
when I started.

Brian Johnson (07:17):
Yeah, I know one of the missions that you had
starting out was to try to getthe data to the consultants that
they needed to do an effectivejob right, because you were on
the other end.
Now, how has that been going?
Have you been able to make anyheadway on that?
You know?

Bryce Hanlon (07:31):
geotechnical data.
The processes for how that'sdelivered has changed over time,
like it used to just be, youknow, mailed in typewritten
reports and then so we had likea filing cabinet of those and
then we had a bunch of reportsthat were, you know, pdf copies
and then now we're moving intothere's going to be PDF and then

(07:56):
there's like a 3D modelingdeliverable component that
eventually is going to be there.
We're not quite there yet butthey had had.
They had all these filingcabinets that they have been for
the last.
I've not been here almost twoyears and I think they've been
doing it since I've been here.
But they are scanning andlogging old reports, bridge
reports, roadway reports, allthe different things, and then

(08:16):
creating a, a GIS database towhere you can search it across
the state, so like if thegeotech consultant has a project
in wherever county Oklahoma,they can get on this website and
get the most information.
Like all the information thatwe have, they can have access to
it quickly.
Now this process, I mean ittakes forever.

(08:36):
It's going to take a while.
We I would say they're maybehalfway done.
I mean maybe not even halfwayinputting all this data.
They are getting to the moremodern.
They started with the old, solike we had reports from like
the 50s Like, so 50s, 60s, justin a filing cabinet.
You're having to figure out,like you know obviously I don't
know if people were using GPS,like coordinates, to track

(09:00):
locations back then A lot ofit's you know, stations and
stuff.
So a lot of the work is justfiguring out what they had and
where it's from and then, yeah,getting it into this database.
That's user-friendly.
It's pretty cool.
They have we have kind of likea.
It's not actually out to theconsultants yet.
Right now it's in a internalphase.

(09:20):
We have a meeting this weekactually to where we're going to
figure out like what's the nextstep to get to what we have.
Like I'd rather it be out thereand it not be complete than you
know.
So maybe there is a project ortwo that it will help them on.
Like right now, kind of whatwe've been doing is if somebody
needs something, they'll call meLike hey, do you have any
reports?
And then I'll just kind of askmaterials that they have any.

(09:49):
Ask the designers, hey, haveyou guys worked on your projects
in this area?
And then we can look at thatway.
But once this is done it's.
I mean, literally in fiveminutes they can have all of the
geotechnical reports that wehave, um, you know, over the
last 70 years apparently, um inthere, so that'll be great.
I mean that's going to be asuper useful resource.
I um, I've been selling it alsoto the universities for, you
know, research, research.
You know data is king at theseschools.
So I'm like, hey, we're goingto have all of our soil data for

(10:12):
, you know however many decadesgoing back Like you guys can use
this for, you know, futurestuff.
You know it's going to be kindof a helpful.
I always say this too with, like, geotechnical reports and stuff
.
A lot of times you just do themand you just really don't like
see the value in it and like,yes, you're helping the designer
for that project.
But, like, I think, having yourwork, um, you know, put into

(10:33):
this like database or likehistorical log, where it's like,
hey, maybe in 60 or 70 years,whenever they're fixed,
replacing this bridge that youdrilled originally, they're
going to be using your data forthat, it's's kind of a cool,
like you know.
It kind of adds, you know,added importance I feel like to
your work.
And you know, like I said, Ithink long-term it's going to be
very helpful.
Like doing work and only usingit once and not, you know,

(10:56):
maximizing the benefit is kindof silly.
It's a big cost savings thinghere we're trying to figure out
ways to obviously save moneysavings thing here we're trying
to figure out ways to obviouslysave money.
So if we can, you know, havethis data to where, whenever we
scope new projects you know theydon't have to basically start
from scratch they have, you know, they kind of have an idea of
what's out there.
They know how deep the bedrockis, they know they have sulfates

(11:17):
in that area, like there's allthese things that they can kind
of pre-plan for to where theyshow up on site.
You know, maybe we can doreduced scope of borings and
testing potentially.
Or if we know that there'sgoing to be problem stuff, we
can even increase testing, belike, hey, we know this is an
issue out here.
Let's try to target where theseissues are and then be able to
build a project without anyissues afterwards.

(11:39):
So yeah, data is king.
I'm learning that here we haveso much data here that no one's
really using.
So Data is king.
I'm learning that here we haveso much data here that no one's
really using.
So this is like one of the waysthat I think, with geotech, we
can.
You know, it's something likewe only have so many reports
every year.
I mean it's a lot, but I thinkthat's something that's easily
you can keep up with.
So once we're caught up, Ithink it's going to be easy to
maintain.

Kim Swanson (12:05):
And then, like I said, that's geographic
information systems, so it'slike a digital map thing.
But just in case someone didn'tknow that, but do you know of
any other DOTs that are usingthis system?
Like having this centralizedmappable database for
geotechnical stuff?

Bryce Hanlon (12:22):
I know a lot of them use it for a bunch of
different things.
They use it for trafficinformation.
I know, you know, I went to alast year, I went to a
conference in Missouri and Iknow they have a similar system
for like they call them likegeotechnical, I forget what they
call it, but basically it'slike underground caves like
potential, like issue areaswhere they've mapped and

(12:45):
identified like that type ofstuff.
So like they know if you have ageotechnical thing in that area
.
But it's not the actual report.
So this is, you know,geotechnical reports are owned
by the state, like so theseconsultants obviously we haven't
done by many differentconsultants, so it's going to be
public information that theseconsultants are obviously
developing.
So I don't know what otherstates' policies are on that,

(13:05):
but we're basically like, well,you did it for us, we own it.
Now Everyone gets to have thatinformation.
Like we want the product to bebetter for you know, going
forward for us, so we don't wantus everyone to have to
necessarily start from scratch,like there are obviously
companies that do more work thanothers so they kind of have had
a benefit in the past becausethey have this large database of
past projects and stuff thatthey can use.

(13:27):
Now we're kind of even in theplaying field for everyone.
So yeah, I don't know, Ihaven't seen it, but I think,
you know, once we get thisdeveloped, I'm sure I'll present
it at different things.
I think it's a good idea.
It's one of the things thatgeotechnical data doesn doesn't
really go.
It doesn't change that much.
Obviously you know your soiland stuff like your.

(13:47):
You know water levels fluctuate, like things do fluctuate, but
typically like rock elevations,soil types, you know that
general information is isn'tgoing to change too much.
So being being educated on that.
Whenever you show up for, like,scoping projects, it's, like I
said, being as accurate as wecan.
With the scoping geotechnicalprojects it's kind of I mean
budgets everything.

(14:08):
You don't want to over budgetthings because that could be
money potentially used somewhereelse and, um, we're trying to
get it to where it's as accurateas possible.
It's not gonna be perfect Imean still soil, so I mean it
still can vary to you know, fivefeet apart from each other, but
you know being as close as wecan and as educated as we can as
the direction we're going.

Brian Johnson (14:26):
Yeah, I want to talk about the change management
process a little bit.
You mentioned gettinginformation out that you can now
so it's usable, instead ofwaiting right.
I think that is a reallyimportant thing to do,
especially when you're talkingabout a scale that you're
dealing with, because once youstart getting companies using it

(14:49):
and and other entities that mayhave competing data or or
similar data, once they startusing it, if they see conflicts
early on, uh, with not maybemaybe it wasn't even with the
data, maybe it was the way itwas handled, uh, but that would
allow you to uh troubleshootearly on so that you don't end
up with a bigger mistake downthe road and have to redo it

(15:11):
Right.
So, so I think that's a reallygood point.
I wanted to make sure everybodyheard that part and understood
that aspect of it, becausesometimes there's a tendency for
organizations to try to controlthe change in a way that maybe

(15:32):
isn't in their best interest,and I don't know if you're
fighting against that or not orif that's just kind of the way
it's going, but usually you havepeople with different ideas
about, like, what the rolloutshould look like.
Do you want, can you talk aboutthat at all?

Bryce Hanlon (15:46):
I think they're looking for people to be more
proactive than than reactive, Ithink.
I think the dot in general hasbeen very slow to do a lot of
things, so this is one of thethings.
They're just.
Like you know, once it's ready,let's, let's, or even if it's
not completely, let's just getit out there.
And I, like I said, we can getfeedback Before it's finally
done.
We can get these consultantsusing it and see how it looks

(16:09):
with them using this data toscope projects and, like I said,
I don't see the negatives.
I think that's the thing.
There's no.
Something is better thannothing.
That's in this situation.
So I would rather just get itout there to the world and then,
if they have feedback, that'llgive us plenty of time to to

(16:30):
kind of get changes in beforeall the data's in there, and
then it'll be a fully.
You know, it'll be an, a plus.
Like I said, it may start outto see, but it will eventually
get there.
But, like, right now it's, it'snon-existent, so let's just,
but it's going to help usregardless.
Um, no matter what it is,because right now, like I said,
literally people are justreaching out if they don't have
information handy, like, do youhave anything and it's.
You know it takes me a while totry to dig through you know old

(16:55):
project numbers and it's justright now.
It's not efficient at all.
So like I think, even with justI think I think the newest
reports right now they have islike early, like the early 2000,
.
Like up to like 2005 or 2006.
So basically everything sincelike 6, 7 on is a more modern
deliverable where it wasliterally just like a PDF that
was made on the computer thing.
I think they're almost at thepoint where they're going to

(17:17):
start uploading those and oncethose kind of start getting in
there, I think it's going to be.
You know we have all of thatdata Like that data hasn't gone.
There's a lot of gaps probablyin that you know, early 2000s
forward, because there's justlike one person throws away one
bound report that's gone forever.
You know it's just it wasn't asustainable, you know way to

(17:38):
manage data.
But yes, I hear everyone's verysupportive on us just
modernizing.
I mean not that they're me likea free way to do whatever I
want, kind of thing, but they'relike fix it, you know, make
things better, like if it's notif it doesn't work out, that's
fine.
You know we can always go backto how it was, but you know they
want us to try new things anddefinitely try to get things

(17:59):
progressing going forward.

Brian Johnson (18:01):
That's great to hear.
I know DOTs can often get a badrap from the public of being
kind of stodgiled, unchangingorganizations.
But you know, one of thereasons that we had our meeting
the first time was because weknow that ODOT's not like that
and I think it's great forpeople to hear that and get to
understand that people arereally trying new things and are
trying to innovate and deliverfor everybody.

(18:24):
I mean, just think of the speedof project delivery that you're
going to have eventually, withpeople being able to speed
through hey, are there anyissues here?
Nope, move forward right.
Exactly.
It's like that's probablyunfathomable.

Bryce Hanlon (18:39):
Geotech is not, like I said, the most
progressive of engineeringdisciplines.
I would say it's.
You know, a lot of the testingtechniques and everything have
been relatively unchanged for awhile.
So I mean just kind of havingmore data available and changing
scoping.
Like we're moving thegeotechnical um basically within
our workflow, we're moving itup in the project, the cycle.

(19:01):
So basically as soon as our 30plans are basically once the
alignment is kind of finalized,we're going to get out there and
start doing geotech and that'llallow more time to adjust.
If there are any, you know,we'll be able to do kind of all
the normal testing stuff we do.
But it also gives us a littlebit of time.
Like there is some adjustmentsto that need to be had due to
field conditions, like, say, wefind that there are all these

(19:23):
problem issues out on the site.
It'll allow us to have time todo potentially additional
borings or do additional testingto kind of figure out like,
okay, well, how bad is it?
You know what do we need to doto fix it.
So trying to get everythinggoing, like I said, I think this
will help kind of get thatearly process, like you have as

(19:52):
much information as you possiblycan as early on, um, it should
allow for earlier datacollection and earlier kind of.
I think the whole thing here isthey want to get everybody the
geotechnical stuff, um, you know, obviously as soon as possible
so that we can just get this.
They wanted to become a wellmachine, I think.
I think it's kind of the wholething we, we there's you talked
about a little bit like with dot, like I said, um, a lot of the
work has been sent out to, like,the consultants.
So we are trying to developprocesses that'll become more.

(20:15):
You know it'll work forin-house projects that were
designed here, but also willwork for the consultants.
So, like, getting stuff as earlyas we can to the consultants
will kind of allow them to kindof, you know, work with the
information sooner, and then itjust communicating with them
back to us is not as efficientas even even here.
So, like I, I think everyonejust sees this as a, like, one
of the few things that you canmove up and it's really not

(20:36):
going to affect the geotechnicaldata that much.
So it'll be kind of a early,not a checkbox, but it's the
thing that you can be like, hey,this is done.
If you need more data.
We can get it, and there'sstill time to get it.

Brian Johnson (20:49):
You mentioned additional borings, and that
indicates to me that there wouldstill be some sort of
confirmatory testing once aproject is is moving right, even
if you have this data and yoursystem is all up to speed.
Is that correct?
Oh yeah, for sure, yeah this.

Bryce Hanlon (21:08):
It's going to be a , it's a supplemental thing,
like we're never going to getaway from doing field testing,
but we literally show up toevery job and act like we've
never been.
It's like we're drilling on themoon, like nobody knows
anything.
You know what I mean.
So that the idea is you show upknowing kind of what you're
getting into, and then, yes, youcan do some like confirmation

(21:29):
holes or something basicallylike hey, you know, we think
rocks here, we think it's thistype of rock, let's do a couple
holes here to make sure that'sit.
And then, with the soils, youknow, unless there's like a lot
of earthwork, like it shouldn'tchange too much if you do a real
thorough um soul survey, um,like now, like in 20 years, like
if you do, if they have to, youknow, redo the road or they do

(21:51):
an overlay or something likethat, the stuff shouldn't really
change all that much so it'smore of like you know, like for
now we're probably still doingkind of full, full projects.
but in 20 years, like you know,whenever all this data is in the
system, they better not bedoing the same amount of holes
that we just did.
Like we better be saving moneyor I'm going to be upset, right.

Brian Johnson (22:09):
Yeah, and I'm almost afraid to ask this
question, but who's beenentering all this data into this
system?
They're engineers, so they'regeotechs.

Bryce Hanlon (22:17):
Now, I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad
thing.
Our technology skills sometimesis you know we're not the most
technological.
But, um, they, they know, likethe like, what's included in the
reports.
They know, like whatinformation is.
So they're categorizing it bylike report type, the county
it's in.
Um, you know what type oftesting was done in the like.

(22:38):
All these things are going tobe searchable in this gis map
whenever.
Whenever it's done, so they youdon't want to just have like a
random person putting these inthere because they were not
going to.
They won't categorize anythingcorrectly.
So that's, that's probably whyit's.

Kim Swanson (22:50):
I mean it's a lot of reports, but they're also
trying to categorize it by allthese different identifiers.

Bryce Hanlon (22:55):
So it is.
It is a time consuming process,but once you get into the PDF
world where you can just search,it should be a lot quicker than
having to like scan in of hardcopy, like you can't really
search those.
I mean, I guess there'ssoftware that you can probably
do, but I don't know if they'reusing.
I think they're literally likereading them and like
identifying the stuff in there.

Brian Johnson (23:14):
So yeah, so we have geotext on it which, like I
said, it may not be the mostefficient way, but at least I
think it'll be done correctly,you know, shift away from the
specificity of what you've beenworking on and get more into
some general stuff related tochange management, if that's
okay.
So, um, can you talk about, um,some of the lessons you've

(23:36):
learned as a DOT employee sinceyou've been there dealing with
change?
What you know you, how do youlook at the change management
process now, after this timethat you've been going through?

Bryce Hanlon (23:53):
change, I think, is harder here than it probably
is anywhere, just because I, Idon't know.
I think there is so many hoopsand stuff you have to go through
here that, um, I think peoplefor the most part feel like it's
easier just to keep doing whatyou're doing before you actually
make big change.
But then, you know, here we gotlucky.

(24:13):
We have the chief engineer here, brian Taylor.
He wants change, like he's beenworking at the DOT for a while
and a lot of the issues that I'mworking on, that other people
are working on, are prettyglaringly obvious, like whenever
a consultant, you see them, um,working here, you see them and
you're just like well, you know,this is how that needs to be
changed, like we can't keepdoing the same thing and we need

(24:35):
we really need to.
You know, like now, like youknow, brian uh is retiring this
year mid-year and he's got alist of stuff he wants to get
done.
I kind of whenever I started,he was part of the developing
the list of stuff I needed towork on, but, um, he's got a lot
of stuff he wants to get doneeven before he's.
He retires kind of mid thisyear as well and then, um, his
replacement, uh, tj deal is isprogressive as well.

(24:59):
I used actually used to workwith him at my other consulting
firm, but he, um, he's got agreat you know he wants to move
things forward as well.
Like he, he doesn't like theidea of keep doing these same
things and and allowing the dotto kind of um like I said the
world is kind ofmodernizing towards consultants
doing a lot of the work.

(25:19):
That's just how the industry is.
I mean, obviously, whenever youwork for the government,
there's like limits and pay andlike um benefits and there's all
these things that you justdon't have like a free market
kind of stuff that you have withconsultants.
So you got to embrace theconsultant stuff, which is a lot
of the change I think that'shappening here, getting the
internal ODOT staff to be opento helping the consultants,

(25:45):
because a lot of times, you know, it is like a pain point, I
feel like a little bit, becauseyou know, typically consultants
will make more money than theDOT people and so like there's
always this like chip on yourshoulder kind of stuff here.
But what they got to understandis like the point of our job is
so you know, we're allocatingthe taxpayers' money to

(26:08):
basically, you know, improve thetransportation system.
That's our whole job.
So whether we're doing the workor whether these consultants
are doing the work, our job isto make sure this gets done as
efficiently and productively aspossible.
So that's kind of how I'veembraced it.
Like well, you know, we haveall this information, we have
all these things that we canimprove.

(26:28):
Let's just start workingtowards them.
There's a lot, I mean.
I guess I've been here two years.
I still have a to-do list, butwe've made kind of big changes.
And like, if you ask thegeotechnical consultants and
even the people here, like thedesign people here, like they
could, there's like noticeablebenefits that everyone can kind
of see.

(26:48):
And it's the thing where, likeI think, they're trying to do
this in all the different areas.
I'm just kind of a new area, so, like I, there was nobody
before me in this job, so I kindof came in and filled an
obvious gap.
These ones that are like thepreexisting um, like roadway
divisions, bridge divisions, youknow, improvements there, I

(27:11):
think, are a little bit moredifficult because you are, it's
way more established.
Like I kind of was given like a, like a open, like a whatever
you know, open like blank canvas, just like, hey, make this kind
of what you want it to be,improve things.
It doesn't have to be perfect,but let's get things going in a
direction of where this isgetting better.
And you know, I feel like I'vedone OK with that so far.
But yeah, it's the DOT man.
I'm still not fully like.
I still don't fully understandwhy everything is what it is

(27:32):
here, but I'm, I'm, I'm learningthe processes and being more
patient.
I feel like I have developedmore patience, but you can still
get stuff done here.
It just it is.
It takes a little bit more of aum.
It takes, like I said, morepatience, but also um, an open
mind like you.
You really got to get the rightpeople on your side here, and
once you kind of they see kindof your um, they kind of see the

(27:57):
direction you want to go andthey see how it can benefit the,
the um, the public, then that'sthe.
Typically they're out, they'reall in.
So a lot of it is money, money.
Like if you'll say people,money, people are all in usually
too.
That's my biggest selling pointfor a lot of this stuff.
I kind of always talk about thedata.
It's like well, if they havethis data, they won't need to do
as much testing.
They'll save us money.
It's always that that'stypically the language for kind

(28:19):
of the higher-ups, but theyobviously want things done
correctly too.

Brian Johnson (28:23):
Now I know you guys were undergoing one of the
big changes and this soundedlike a really difficult
challenge for you guys isconsolidating some of the
departments, or I don't know ifyou completely consolidated them
or just consolidated certainaspects of what they did.
But every division is going tohave department heads and

(28:44):
they're going to have protocolsand organizational structures.
And I answer to this person andnot this other person and how
has that all gone?

Bryce Hanlon (28:57):
That's a good question, because that is a
thing where you, whenever youearn a title, it's hard to
relinquish any kind of I don'tknow, it is hard.
People love titles here.
I have learned that here.
Like I came from the consultingworld where I was just a
geotech engineer.
I didn't have any fancy title,I literally did geotech reports
and that was kind of here, youknow, there's everybody wants a

(29:21):
title and then once you get thattitle, you definitely don't
want to move backwards.
So you, like you said,consolidate different areas into
different groups, like you arepotentially gonna there's gonna
be people that have to take likethe back seat to someone else
and it it's been weird.
There has been times where it'sbeen weird like, um, you know,
but I think if you can kind ofexplain the bigger goal and and

(29:42):
you know, like I said, it, a lotof it is is morale, like it,
kind of keeping people positiveabout the, the big picture.
It's hard but yes, it that's apain point I've learned.
I've learned that here, I thinkhere, here more than any place
too, because I think that is oneof the things you pride
yourself on here, becausewhatever, like I said, that is
kind of the one thing you worktowards here like titles here

(30:03):
are kind of cool, like you arelike the state, whatever,
whatever you are here, um, butyeah, if, if you know so, like
the bridge group and the umroadway group, that they merge
together but they still kind ofhave the titles within there,
but there are, like um, like youknow, cat people within that.
I don't know if their titleschange too much, but the higher
ups, most of them, kind of kepttheir same time.

(30:24):
Like we still have a statebridge engineer, we still have a
state, you know, roadwayengineer, um, but they're within
the design branch instead ofthe roadway group or the bridge
group.
You know that way.
So, but there are other, youknow lesser, not lesser, but uh,
different titles that, um, Ithink they've had to adjust

(30:45):
their responsibilities.
Like some aren't managersnecessarily anymore.
Some, you know, maybe havedifferent areas that they're
that they're working in now, butit, and then also we, within
the last couple of weeks, weeveryone had to come back into
the office, which was a big,which was a big thing as well.
So there was kind of all thesethings that kind of had happened
.
That work they're kind ofpushing everyone.

(31:06):
But I think what's going tocome out of it is, I think
everyone's going to be more.
You know, I think the peoplethat are going to be here are
going to people that want to behere and people that are going
to make make things better.
So I it is.
Yeah, it's, it's, it's.
It's a fun one.
I said I have a title I don'treally use it that much, but, um
, you know, I don't, I don'tknow.

(31:31):
I think there's definitely some, some that take it way, way too
, way too serious, but whatever,yeah, you definitely are going
to have that.

Brian Johnson (31:35):
Uh, I, I, I do wonder also about the process of
, of getting that accomplished.
Uh, you know, you come up, youcome in with this idea okay,
we're going to get theseresponsibilities handed out, and
you can't really look at itjust on paper, like, oh, it
makes sense for this person toFiguring out, okay, well, are we
going to do this based on whatmakes sense for the position or

(32:10):
what makes sense for the talentthat we currently have, because
you can change later.
Like, this doesn't have to beforever, right.
So did that come into play atall when you guys were
determining this?

Bryce Hanlon (32:21):
Yeah, so within my group that is.
So you know, I kind of managethe paper design group right now
and I've seen kind of otherpeople's groups how it's gone as
well.
I think having a task assignedspecifically to a person, it can
be.
It needs to be more fluid.
I think that's the thing here.
I think everything here is solike everybody's in their little

(32:42):
boxes, like if this isn'tspecifically in my to-do task,
I'm not going to do it.
I'm like no, we got to be whereeveryone's like everybody's
working as a group to get theentire, you know, to get the
whole thing done.
Like we're not just becauseyour little part is done does
not mean you can just sit there.
If there's other stuff thatneeds to be done and this
person's drowning, like go helpthem out, and that's like with

(33:04):
I'm I managed to pay designgroup and that's kind of how I'm
trying to approach them as well, like I've I've kind of
reassigned tasks within thatgroup.
But then also, you know, we doweekly meetings where I'm like,
hey, how busy are you, how busyare you?
And then if, if it is a thingwhere one person can help the
other, we got to do it becausewe, we, that that's.
That's how I think delays happenand people get further behind

(33:25):
is, like you know, if tasks arenot appropriately, you know,
split up like you can really puta lot on one person At that
time.
You know, maybe that person canhandle it, but sometimes they
can't and they can get burnedout and stuff.
So no, I like things to be morefluid.
It comes from the manager.
Like the manager really needsto be like more on it, like they

(33:46):
really got to see what'shappening and not just, like you
know, writing down, like yousaid, on a piece of paper, like
you know, this is what your roleis and as soon as that person
finishes that, they're sittingthere for the rest of the week.
You know that's not good, thatdoesn't help anyone out and I
would say our staffing Staffinghere is probably as low as it's
probably been in a while.
So you know, everybody needs tokind of pick up slack when they

(34:07):
can.
Like there's not a, there's notreally.
You know there's alwayssomething that needs to be done.
So it needs to definitely bemore proactive that way.
But I think it's probably likethat everywhere.
I think everyone's probablyhaving to pick up more slack.
I know there's just a shortage,kind of a staffing shortage
everywhere.
But here I think DOT peoplehistorically, like you said, it
probably is the public.

(34:28):
I thought it whenever I workedin Arkansas.
I was like those people don'tdo a whole lot someday.
You know, you can just telljust from what you hear like
these people are kind ofslacking.
But then when you get hereyou're like well, I can see why.
I mean, maybe they don't knowthey're supposed to be doing
something.
You really got to be vocal andbe like, hey, I need you to do
this so that this could beaccomplished, kind of thing.

Brian Johnson (34:49):
Yeah, it's a management effort.
100% it's required.

Bryce Hanlon (34:54):
Yeah, I mean, it's a more you know, I think you
know a lot of the managers hereare engineers and I think that
is a thing where not allengineers are great managers.
So, like managers, so like alot of the people we have now
are great, like I think they'revery vocal and you know they can
, they can interact with peoplewell, but if you get the a
certain type of engineer in amanagerial role, you're asking

(35:14):
for problems because they a lotof them, are very introverted
and they're just not going toproactively tell somebody that
you need to go do this othertask that they weren't
necessarily assigned.
But you know it would help thegroup if they were to help.
So that's, yeah, we I feel likewe're going in a good direction
with our leadership here.
We have some very, you know,people that want things to be

(35:35):
done the right way anddefinitely I'm probably the
newest one here by quite a bit.
That's kind of in, I'm kind of asemi-leadership role, but a lot
of like the division heads andstuff have been here for you
know, five, 10 years and they'rekind of they're about my age,
like kind of late thirties, andthey're very, you know, wanting
things to be better, likethey're going to be working here

(35:57):
for another couple of decades,so you know they need things to
improve.
You know now, so their life'snot miserable.
And you know now, so theirlife's not miserable.
And you know what I'm going tosay.
Like, I think a lot of times.
Like if you get a person thatyou know they're going to retire
in a couple years, like theirlevel of effort for trying to
move things forward is probablynot as much as somebody that's
going to be around for a while,for sure.

Brian Johnson (36:16):
so yeah, you definitely see that I.
I know you've talked about someelements of this already, uh,
but I was wondering if any tipsfor other managers who are
relatively new to a position butare dealing with some
organizational change and somepotential struggles with trying
to get staff members tounderstand the value of those

(36:40):
changes and why they shouldgreet them with a positive, a
positive feeling and, in a wayto move forward effectively.

Bryce Hanlon (36:51):
It's hard man.
It is.
You know everybody, so you know, I think, a lot of people what
I've seen is like once they geta job, they're like, okay, well,
we talked about this earlier,but, like I had, these are my
tasks, like this is what I do.
So if you're asking them to domore stuff, they immediately
want more, want, want more money.
Or they're asking, like whythis person isn't doing.
I'm like, okay, cool, I, I getwhat you're saying, but I think

(37:12):
I always emphasize how it'sgoing to make them a better
engineer and like I'm just like,well, you need to learn
different stuff.
You need to be more proactiveon doing this stuff.
Like you're not always going towant to.
You don't always want to be theperson that's sitting here, you
know, waiting for somebody togive you something.
Like be proactive.
Like if you don't have want tobe the person that's sitting
here waiting for somebody togive you something, be proactive
.
If you don't have anything to do, ask if there's something you
can help with.
Be more like that.
Even if you don't work at theDOT forever, if you go into

(37:34):
consulting and if you're justsitting there waiting for people
to give you tasks, you're nevergoing to amount to anything.
You're kind of just going to bethe maybe you'll be whatever.
You'll be in probably the sameposition for the rest of your
life.
But just having that, I think,just in general, like being

(37:55):
wanting to be helpful and and,um, you know like, the group
that I manage is very tiny, solike literally it's like two or
three people, so we're, you knowlike whenever there is somebody
that's drowning.
It's very easy to be like, hey,can you take these tasks
associated with pay design andmove it under these people for
at least this week, and then thenext week we'll talk about like
, hey, were you able to catch upwith this?
Was this person able to get towhere they're not drowning, and

(38:16):
then they can kind of go back totheir normal tasks after that.
But yeah, like it's a toughsell because I think naturally
people want to do not all peoplea lot of people want to do the
bare minimum to get theirpaycheck and then go home.
That's just what I mean.
Everybody, I think, has seenthat.
I think a lot of the youngerpeople.
It's getting kind of worse,just from what I've seen.
But you know, just I think,like you said, emphasizing the

(38:40):
big picture and explaining youknow why things need to be done,
why they do, and then then youknow, explain how important
their job is to the wholeecosystem.
Here, I think, is very umimportant.
Like you know, payment design isone of the things here that it
was kind of during covet it gotum, we got a massive backlog
just with the amount of umdesigns that needed to go out,

(39:03):
so then we had to start subbingat that, subbing out that work
to the consultants, and thatcaused a lot of other issues,
because there's variance intraining on how to do pavement
designs between them and therewasn't proper.
We didn't this is all thedifferent things I'm working on
but there wasn't proper, likemanuals for how to do pavements.
I mean, the processes aren'tthat difficult, but we don't

(39:23):
have like a standardizedOklahoma DOT pavement design
guide, and so we were askingthese people to perform a
service for us without beingproperly educated on what they
need.
So what was happening was theywere doing this pavement design
work submitted to us for review.
They didn't do anything.
So we were actually spendingmore time reviewing this thing,
doing the back and forth withemails and phone calls, and it

(39:48):
just ended up being a mess.
So literally, starting this year, we're doing all pavement
design in-house again and Ibasically I've told our
engineers like this is going towork.
It's going to require a lot oflike you being proactive about
your schedules and beingorganized yourself.
I think self-organization andstuff like that is is hard for a

(40:08):
lot of people.
So my duty is basically, everyweek I give them these tasks,
but I I give them like a bigpicture thing be like, hey, we
need to keep up with thiscertain amount of stuff so that
you don't develop backlogs andissues.
And then I'm helping with theirum, like with their process.
I'm helping develop tools towhere they can track things

(40:29):
easier and streamlinecommunication with consultants
and like all these things tomake it to where they don't feel
like they're going to get asburied as easily.

Kim Swanson (40:39):
But like I don't know, I don't know, I don't know
if there is.

Bryce Hanlon (40:43):
Whenever you hire people, it's kind of 50-50,
whether you're going to getsomebody that wants to take the
extra effort or you get somebodythat's very cool with just
doing the bare minimum andleaving at 5 o'clock.
That's kind of it.
But I think selling the bigpicture is always helpful.

(41:05):
I think the DOT is a cool.
It's easier to sell the bigpicture here because you're not
necessarily benefiting anindividual who owns a company.
You're benefiting the state,you're benefiting all these.
You're creating atransportation system for I mean
, you're designing I keep onbringing it back to the people
that I manage but I always sellyou're literally designing the

(41:27):
pavement that the entire stateis driving on.
You're designing all thepavements for the entire highway
system.
So it's a cool.
It's a cool job.
So let's do it well, like let'sdo it as good as we can and
make this, make this process assmooth as possible for everyone,
because it's like, once everyone of these projects are done,
like here in, you know, 20 years, years, like that road still,
people are still going to bedriving on.

(41:47):
You can, you can take pride inthat and everything.
So I think it is easier to sellhere than it is like for
consulting firms.
I used to work in consulting itis.
You get kind of miserable, youknow, especially if you don't
feel like you're making forwardprogress there.
But here I think you it, youalmost have to sell that part of
it here because, because therearen't maybe particular other
benefits to working here too.

Brian Johnson (42:10):
Well put, Kim.
I've been dominating thequestions.
What do you have any questions?

Kim Swanson (42:22):
No, I think Bryce has definitely covered all of
the aspects, like I don't reallyhave any followup questions.
I think it was very thoroughand while you were were talking,
I was had the thought of youknow not how some people don't
necessarily want to go above andbeyond.
I think when it comes to that'swhen I'd like team dynamic
comes in, because if you likeyour co-workers yes, okay, I see

(42:43):
that they're drowning I canstep up, but 100 if if they're a
piece of work and I don't likethem, I'm going to do the bare
minimum.

Bryce Hanlon (42:53):
So well, you know.
So we, I think you know we cango into the whole remote work
thing.
I think there's benefits toremote work, obviously, but that
you lose that dynamic of a teamand a group, it's just hard to
keep that going through a team'smeeting.
Like you, just, you just can't.
You know, like I, you canliterally see someone right next
to you struggling and you canask them for help.

(43:13):
Like, if you have to,proactively, you know they have
to either message you orwhatever and ask for help.
Like sometimes people areawkward, but if you can like see
them be like, hey, do you needhelp?
It's a lot easier.
Like I, I just I'm trying tobuild that back.
That's a big thing.
Like I, like I said here,everyone was brought back in the
office, um, two mondays ago.
So, um, you know, the ideabehind that is not just to be

(43:36):
mean but is, like I, they feltlike the leadership here felt
like they were losing that, thatpart of the dot.
So they're trying to bringeveryone in to build up the
camaraderie, build up the teamand then also like be able to
identify, like future leadership, like it's really hard to
identify people's and be able tojudge people's character and

(43:58):
morals and stuff through liketeams.
I don't know.

Kim Swanson (44:00):
Like it's just very different.

Bryce Hanlon (44:01):
So, but if you see some of everyone day to day,
how they handle themselves like,how they handle their work, how
much pride they show in theirwork, um, in person, like I
think that's how you kind offigure out who's going to be the
next people to fill in these,these roles here.
So they, it's a big thing, I, I, I, I don't know, I'm very old
school, I, I, I'm, I don't know.
I like the, the in-person work.

(44:23):
But I get, I get certainpeople's situations for sure
with remote stuff.
But I think for our type ofstuff it is helpful to,
especially if you're trying to.
You have all these differentdepartments.
I mean we're supposed to be inthe same building, but whenever
you get different departments,you know in different houses,
like it's just really hard tokeep that flow going, um, with
with communication.

(44:43):
But literally the last coupleweeks even, I feel like it's
it's it's getting better and um,you know the leadership is
emphasizing like we all got totalk to each other to make this
work and so that's I have mylittle role in it, but there's a
lot of other people doing kindof the same stuff and different,
different categories too.

Brian Johnson (45:00):
Yeah, I think the return to the uh, return to
office discussions kind oframped up last year around the
country where you startedhearing more of that and it's a
painful process.
You know, as a manager I likethe flexibility of having
options for my people, becausesome of them I think would be
better off if they were workingfrom home completely because

(45:24):
they don't really care aboutinteracting with people and they
really do it anyway.
They won't do it.
Uh, there'll be productive, butthat's not something that
they're going to do.
Uh, it's certainly not going tomake certain people who are not
interested in communicating inperson start doing it.
But there are people.
Those people that really wantto be there are going to

(45:46):
flourish.
You're going to developleadership better.
It's not a great long-termsolution for an organization to
have everybody completely remote, because it's hard to build up
those relationships andleaderships.

Bryce Hanlon (46:02):
But there are certainly elements where it is
very good and oh yeah, I think,I think, I think, I think the
plan eventually is to have it asa tool, like as you know it's,
it's just not like you, everyweek, get to be home.
I think the idea is like, atleast a couple days a week, you
know to to have that to whereyou come in then.
But, like for now, theybasically had to make a hard

(46:23):
line everybody's in, we're allhere, and then, I think, here in
probably a couple of months,they're going to relax a little
bit till we were like, okay,we've weeded out the people that
are just like, okay, this, Ican't do it, I can't, I can't do
this at all.
Then the managers can use it,like you said, as a tool for,
like, certain individuals whereit makes sense.
But then it's still on themanager to make sure that they

(46:43):
can obviously, you know, managethose tasks, make sure their
tasks are being performed andthey're also working within the
group dynamic and building thegroup dynamic up.
But it's just like it is easierin person.
But there are some people thatliterally are miserable in this
office.

Kim Swanson (46:57):
So it is what it is .

Bryce Hanlon (47:01):
I think you got to be able to accommodate,
especially like you can't besuper picky at the DOT.
It is hard, like it is hard toget people to kind of to come
here anyway.
So whenever you start takingaway like benefits, like that
it's it is, it's making it evenharder to get to get bodies in
here.
But but I get the idea.
I mean, it is a thing I thinkyou almost had to be super
drastic about it and then justsee what, see what happens and

(47:24):
just see what happens and thenyou know, over time you can kind
of use that as a, like I said,kind of a nice.
You know, say, this week yougot some stuff that it makes
sense for you to work Like yougot stuff like hey, go work from
remote this week, but you knowwe can't just you can't just
assume that's where your week'sgoing to be every week, I guess,
right.

Brian Johnson (47:41):
So for sure, yep.

Kim Swanson (47:43):
I think it's kind of funny that we all represent,
I think, very differentviewpoints on this.
I'm not going to get into myviewpoints about work from home,
because it is definitely likeremote work.
It's the full spectrum, but aswe're doing it, I feel like we
all we represent the fullspectrum here, because I
definitely have other thoughts.

Bryce Hanlon (48:04):
But again that's the issue there.
One thing I have seen with itand obviously there are
individuals.
One of the individuals Imanaged like she.
That's the only way she canwork.
It is remote, so like it, 100is, is is necessary, I think at
the dot level, like I, I thinkthis this was all kind of before
I even worked here, but they,they had a certain they talk

(48:25):
about it's like a culture, it'slike a whole culture thing where
they're like you know, likethey wanted, and just a lot of
people that work here.
Obviously there's like olderpeople, it's a lot of.
It is a generational thing,just you know it's like I
survived working in person for40 years.
You know why can't you show up?
You know it's a lot of that, sodon't it's that.
But you know, like the overallthing, I get it, but I think,

(48:47):
like this is almost like a, thisis a temporary, like we're
going, we're going old schoolfor a little bit, but then we
are going to be more modern andunderstand, because there's no
way you're going to keep peoplelike I mean, you'll, you'll be
able to keep some, but you'regoing to lose probably a lot of
good ones as well.
So you got to be able toaccommodate.
You know, like, if all theconsultants are allowing people
to work remotely and make moremoney and do all this stuff,

(49:09):
like how are you ever going tokeep anyone here?

Kim Swanson (49:13):
So that's what cool titles.
That's how you keep people.
That's why people care abouttheir titles.
Full circle there to that thecool title will keep me there.

Bryce Hanlon (49:21):
Yeah, pretty much I mean that's, I mean that's the
one thing you get here, is youget a fun title for pretty much
for sure.

Brian Johnson (49:29):
All right, well, bryce, thank you for your time.
Did we miss anything?
Is there anything you wanted totalk about that we didn't touch
on today?

Bryce Hanlon (49:35):
I don't think so you know there's just a lot of
different.
You know a lot of the big gebeginning of the project, like
from project initiation all theway to like final plans, like
how can the geotech stuff withinthat be done more efficiently?
But we don't need to go in theweeds Like it's, it's.

(49:57):
You don't want to go that thatfar.
But, but I feel like we'remaking progress.
I guess there's a lot of mekind of communicating with the
consultants and the designersand we are figuring out
processes that I think work foreverybody.
This year I am rewriting ourspecifications, so our geotech
spec that all the consultantsuse to perform all the field

(50:18):
work and lab work and reporting.
I'm going to kind of berewriting that with the.
I'm getting a lot of like helpfrom the designers, like
figuring out exactly what theyneed.
You know what information thereis actually required, like.
There's been a lot of differentsituations over the last two
years that I've seen thatpresent kind of gray areas, like

(50:39):
they don't necessarily knowwhat process to follow in
certain situations.
So I'm going to kind of usethose situations to kind of add
stuff into the spec and thenbasically submit it out to
consultants Because one thingthat so the consultants own a
lot of equipment already, soit's not like I can propose all
these random tests that nobody'sever heard of.

(51:01):
It needs to be cost effectiveand all this stuff.
But you know, if there is stuffthat is changing like
potentially like drillingmethods or something like that,
I'll um, I'm going to reach outto them and kind of get some
feedback from them to make sureit's cost effective and the
equipment's even available orpeople actually own it.
You know that kind of stuff.
It's just gonna be a lot ofmaking sure that our future

(51:21):
improvements are actuallyachievable when it comes to to
field stuff, but that's it.
And then, uh, payment design.
We are um, so we are still astate that does mainly 93 Ash,
toe.
We are trying to work towardsdoing pavement in me.
My goal is hopefully by the endof next year or kind of early
2027, we'll kind of have a fullpavement in me design process.

(51:45):
We are going through kind of alot of these states are going
through this, but it's all likethese calibrations and making
sure like what we're doing makessense and also convincing these
districts that this new methodfor payment design is actually
going to benefit them.
Because typically the sectionsthat are recommended come back a
little bit thinner, so they arecheaper.

(52:06):
But they're scared to deaththat they're going to fail.
But you have to explain thescience to them and get them on
board with it.
A lot of these um, a lot ofthese districts and stuff like
that.
They have kind of minimumpayment sections that they're
very used to.
So if you go away from that,you know red flags start going
off.
It's just kind of the thing.
So it's going to be a lot of meand the pavement engineers

(52:26):
hopefully educating them on howthis can improve.
Um, you know how this can savemoney in the future, like why
it's okay to potentially reducethings, like talk about the
materials and, you know, explainin more complex way how these
pavements will fail in thefuture and you don't just
necessarily have to throw abunch of material at something
for the last a long time.
You can kind of analyze it.

(52:47):
You know, kind of a moreadvanced way than what we're,
what we're currently doing.
But, um, yeah, whenever that'sdone, that's gonna be great.
That's the big thing.
That if I get payment meimplemented here, that'll be.
That's going to be the big onefor me.
But that's that's going to be aprocess for for sure.

Brian Johnson (53:04):
But well, that sounds like you've been off a
lot for 2025 in the censusprocesses and standards, writing
and uh implementation, tryingto get all the districts on
board, uh wow yeah, like I said,I don't think it's.

Bryce Hanlon (53:21):
I mean it's some of it may be engineering, but my
job is more not engineering.
It's all get everybody on thesame page with processes.
I feel like a lot, but um it'sgood for sure yeah, well, that's
cool.

Brian Johnson (53:34):
Uh, we have to circle back with you next year
to see how that went, becausethat's it sure I?
I have so many questions foryou because we I'll be a
recurring guest.

Bryce Hanlon (53:42):
As much as you, as much as you need me, I will.
I will do do one.
This is.
This is, I think, a cool one,because it literally is a.
It came from nothing, like.
I mean, geotech has obviouslyalways been done, but this whole
group, like figuring out whatthis is going to be like, I
think next year hopefully I'llhave some additional staff
working with me there's going tobe kind of a whole.
Hopefully growth is happening,hopefully it's not me coming in

(54:06):
saying the exact same you knowstuff next year.
But there should be, thereshould there should be kind of
noticeable improvement.
I thought it was only one yearbut it was like two years, so
there's been a bunch of stuffkind of happened in that time.
But yeah, this next year wehave some big ticket items that,
if I can get these accomplished, I feel like we'll be in a

(54:26):
pretty good spot.
Go forward, for sure.

Brian Johnson (54:28):
So Sounds good.
All right, we will set up asave the date for that one, and
we will document your entirecareer.

Bryce Hanlon (54:36):
I mean I?
You know what I need this?
Yeah, I need my.
My wife needs to listen to this, so she actually knows what I'm
doing here.

Kim Swanson (54:41):
I think that'll be good for sure.

Bryce Hanlon (54:43):
Like she'll get a yearly update.
I don't want to bore with mywork whenever we go home too
much.

Kim Swanson (54:48):
Listen to this every year, you'll be good.
You'll be good.
This is what I'm doing.
Send it to your family insteadof, like you know, a holiday
card Like.
This is what I'm doing.

Bryce Hanlon (54:56):
Yeah, you don't need to know the details.
This is what you got.

Kim Swanson (55:00):
I love it.
Well, thank you for thank youfor joining us, and I wanted to
let everybody know about ourAASHTO Resource Technical
Exchange happening in Bellevue,washington, march 17th through
the 20th 2025.
And, as of the recording ofthis, the registration is open,
so we hope to see you there.
Thanks for listening to AASHTOResource Q&A or just submit a

(55:23):
question.
Send us an email at podcast atashtoresourceorg, or call Brian
at 240-436-4820.
For other news and relatedcontent, check out AASHTO
Resources social media accountsor go to ashtoresourceorg.