August 13, 2024 • 35 mins
What if your organization could lead a quality management revolution? Join us as we explore AASHTO re:source's roadmap for 2024 to 2027 with Bob Lutz, the Director of AASHTO re:source. Bob shares the inspiration and process behind this ambitious strategy, which aims to transform the construction materials, testing, and inspection industry. Learn how identifying key stakeholders and understanding their needs laid the foundation for a bold vision and mission that promises to shift the paradigm from compliance to excellence.
In our conversation, Bob delves into the collaborative approach that defined AASHTO re:source's mission, vision, and values. We discuss the strategic objectives that prioritize leading by example, building trust, and fostering continual improvement, all while holding safety, integrity, and inclusivity at the core. Discover exciting plans for educational content and innovative use of proficiency testing data to better serve customers. This episode provides insights into how this dynamic roadmap can propel AASHTO re:source and its stakeholders toward unparalleled success. Don’t miss it!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kim Swanson (00:03):
Welcome to AASHTO Resource Q&A.
We're taking time to discussconstruction materials, testing
and inspection with people inthe know.
From exploring testing problemsand solutions to laboratory
best practices and qualitymanagement, we're covering
topics important to you.
Brian Johnson (00:18):
Welcome to AASHTO Resource Q&A.
I'm Brian Johnson.
Kim Swanson (00:22):
I'm Kim Swanson and welcome to Season 5, episode 2.
We have a very special guesttoday Brian.
Brian Johnson (00:30):
Yes, it is Robert Lutz, my boss and yours.
Kim Swanson (00:34):
Welcome Bob.
Bob Lutz (00:36):
Good morning, happy to be here.
Kim Swanson (00:39):
So Bob is the director of AASHTO Resource, and
we have him on today to talkabout something we teased in
episode one of season five.
But why don't you tell me alittle bit more about it, Brian?
Because you were part of thiswhole process too, so do you
want to give some briefbackground, Brian?
Brian Johnson (00:56):
That's right.
First of all, if you are seeingthis on video, yes, we are
wearing the same exact clothesthat we were wearing in episode
one.
Because this is the same exactclothes that we were wearing in
episode one, because this is thesame day, but we did.
We did talk and give a littleintroduction to this episode.
We're going to talk about theroadmap resources roadmap, which
(01:19):
is a strategic plan, but we'renot going to call it that
officially because there is a ina pre-existing condition that
we're dealing with, called thestrategic plan.
Uh, that already has beenestablished.
So this is kind of a, anoffshoot, uh, of the strategic
(01:43):
plan that is specificallytailored to AASHTO resource, but
it is called a roadmap, so it'snot to confuse people.
Kim Swanson (01:53):
Yes, so AASHTO has a general strategic plan.
I believe those dates for theis 2024, or is it 2023?
What's the 2021.
One to 2026.
Six Yep, and then this roadmapis 2024 to 2027.
And it is just for AASHTOResource.
(02:15):
So, bob, let's dig into it.
Why now for this?
Bob Lutz (02:23):
I thought you were going to ask why not?
I think part of it has to dowith the fact that AASHTO does
have a strategic plan that we'vetalked about for the last
couple of years and in lookingat it I've really learned a lot
of things from it.
I've seen that it's been usedpretty effectively, but it's, in
my opinion, one of the betterwritten ones that I have seen.
(02:46):
So I had a conversation withBrian and also Malusky and
Sonya Puterbaugh, and we startedbatting around the idea of
whether we should do somethingsimilar.
For us.
We've never officially had ourown strategic plan or roadmap
(03:08):
and I'm sure you're going to asksome questions about the
details and why and what we'retrying to accomplish.
But you know we've had somesuccesses and we've had some
failures and I think this is agood time.
Anytime is a good time to havea strategic plan, but we're
really trying to build on whatAASHTO as an association has
(03:32):
done just in the last couple ofyears.
Their strategic plan really gotme thinking about the need and
necessity and the value of astrategic plan.
Kim Swanson (03:43):
Thank you for some of the background.
Let's kind of dive into some ofthis.
What are some of the thingsthat you've considered while you
were creating this?
Because I know Bob and Brian,you guys were part of it.
So, bob, do you want to shedany light onto some of that
process and how it kind offormed?
Bob Lutz (04:06):
Sure, absolutely Well, when we made the decision that
we were going to go down thisroad, one of the things I
started looking at was how to doone.
We've been through a processyears ago where we talked about
the traditional approach tostrategic plans, which kind of
(04:26):
revolves around strengths,weaknesses, opportunities and
threat a SWOT analysis.
But I came across a differentapproach in an article that
really appealed to me.
That was a little bit differentthan I thought it would better
fit what we were trying to doand what we were thinking about.
(04:49):
So, instead of that approach,it really started with
identifying who are your keystakeholders, and that led us
down in this interesting path.
And then we kind of got hung upon, well, what's a stakeholder
or what's a key stakeholder?
So we started looking at ourKPIs or key performance
(05:15):
indicators and that.
So we really took a step back.
But it was very useful in thediscussion.
And the other interestingapproach to this was there were
to identify a key stakeholder.
There were five questions thatwe had to answer and if you
didn't to qualify as astakeholder, you had to identify
(05:38):
for each question a yes or a no, and that was an interesting
process.
So you would think thatidentifying your key
stakeholders would be relativelyeasy and simple and quick, and
it wasn't, but it really forcedus into some really good
discussions.
We also talked about who are ourtarget customers.
(06:01):
You know, for us it's not justlabs or materials, testing and
inspection labs.
It goes beyond that.
Certainly all of thosegovernmental and regulatory
agencies that requireaccreditation are also another
set of customers.
So we had some goodconversations around that.
But then we started asking whatdo we want from each of those
(06:26):
key stakeholder groups and whatdo we think that they want from
us?
And again, we had some reallyinteresting discussions
revolving those groups.
We really learned a lot, Ithink, about each of those
groups, what we want from themand how are we going to go about
(06:50):
getting what we want from eachgroup.
Once we got to that point, thelast and final step was really
dividing excuse me deciding onand developing our vision and
our mission.
And again, I know you have somequestions about that, but the
(07:14):
process to develop the visionwas really critical in
developing everything else thatcame after that.
Brian Johnson (07:20):
All right, so let's talk about that vision.
I'm going to read it foreverybody.
Kim Swanson (07:25):
Yes, thank you.
Brian Johnson (07:27):
Our vision is leading a quality management
revolution within theconstruction materials, testing
and inspection industry.
That sounds pretty bold Leadinga quality revolution, quality
management revolution.
Couldn't even get it rightmyself after a second of having
read it, but yes, qualitymanagement revolution.
(07:49):
So, bob, what does that mean to?
Bob Lutz (07:51):
you and talks about quality and the way that they
are, the way that they live it,the way they are committed to it
.
And I'll give you an example.
You know, about seven years agowe came up with this idea for
(08:19):
the technical exchange and weweren't sure how that was going
to go and really that kind ofthat seed was planted back then
for the new vision.
What we realized through thetechnical exchange was that
there are a lot of people whocare about quality, who want to
get together and talk aboutquality, and our vision really
(08:47):
is trying to create an entireindustry, not just a small group
within that industry, of peoplewho have these conversations,
who care about all of theconcepts that we talk about at
things like the technicalexchange, ultimately to raise
the level of quality within ourindustry.
(09:09):
And our goal or our role reallyis leading it.
That doesn't mean that we arethe experts.
It means that we're going to bethe conduit, we're going to be
the mechanism for bringingpeople together, for having
these conversations, fromlearning from each other and
(09:30):
really what we want to do.
We want to lead the way, but wewant to create a community of
people who are the messenger.
So it's not just us.
It involves some of our keystakeholders, as we talked about
a minute ago.
Brian Johnson (09:48):
I'm going to talk about the vision.
It is a little unusual in thatit is an action instead of a
destination or some sort ofgrand concept.
I think that kind of speaks towhere we're going with this as
(10:11):
well.
Um, but, bob, can you, can youtalk about how we got there and
and why didn't we end up withjust uh, explaining what this,
uh, massive, grand outcome wouldbe and, went with it, what we
would be doing as the vision?
Bob Lutz (10:31):
well, I do think of it as a destination not to to
intentionally disagree with you,brian, but I do see it as a
destination.
It is meant to be kind of yournorth star, your your guiding
light, and it's supposed to bebold and actionable, yes, but
(10:52):
bold.
So I do see it as ourdestination.
That's where we're heading,that's where we want to get to
in the future, and one of theanalogies that I've made is in
my mind, anyhow, and that helpsme understand it is that the
vision is our destination.
If you think of yourselfplanning a trip, where are you
(11:12):
going?
That's our destination.
How are you going to get there?
What's the route that you'regoing to follow?
That's our mission.
Our mission is going to help usget to our destination or our
vision.
But, like with any trip, ourdestination or our vision, but
like with any trip, sometimesyou run into construction, you
(11:36):
run into detours.
Kim Swanson (11:36):
It's not always a straight line from where you are
to your vision, and you have tobe able to adapt.
Speaking of mission, I willread that for everybody as well.
So our mission is collaboratingwith our key stakeholders to
provide services that ensure theintegrity of the materials in
our nation's infrastructure.
So what does that missionreally mean to you, bob, and how
(11:57):
do you see that fitting into usleading a revolution?
Bob Lutz (12:01):
I think I mentioned this a minute ago.
One of the key points that weidentified is that, yes, we want
to be the leaders, but thatdoesn't mean that we're the only
ones involved in thesediscussions.
So the first part of thatmission is collaborating with
(12:22):
our key stakeholders.
Example.
So not in the beginning, butover the past few years, one of
the things that we've learned isthat there are key stakeholders
within our industry and thereare some outside of our industry
.
We've had some guest speakers atTechX who do not come from
within our own industry, butthey are experts in quality.
(12:48):
They may have some of them havebackground in the automotive
industry, for example.
Quality is a concept that isnot limited to our industry and
quality management systems arenot limited to our industry.
So one of the lessons thatwe've learned through TechX
(13:08):
again is that, hey, you knowwhat?
There are some people outsideof our industry that can help us
develop and spread this messageand in fact, they've been some
of the best presenters.
Best received presenters atTechX, best received presenters
at TechX have generated a lot ofinterest and have caused, I
(13:30):
think, all of us to look atquality as it applies to our
industry a little bitdifferently.
So again, we're trying to buildthis community, but that
community doesn't have to comein from within just the
construction materials industry,but we also have this focus on
materials as it relates toinfrastructure.
(13:53):
Ultimately, we exist, ashleyResource exists to help the
industry improve materialstesting and materials inspection
.
Literally, materials are thefoundation of our nation's
infrastructure.
So one can make the argumentthat materials testing is, could
(14:19):
be, the most important piece ofbuilding and developing our
nation's infrastructure.
So we want to remain true tothat mission as well.
So we have our existingservices, which we've had for a
number of years, but our missionalso is asking and requiring of
(14:41):
us to think about what areother ways, what are other
services that we can provide toget to that vision a little bit
faster yeah, so the mission, themission as it was being
developed, I think it it cametogether pretty nicely for us
because of the structure of theway we developed this.
Brian Johnson (15:01):
So, when we were having all of our meetings,
talking about key performanceindicators and, uh, who are um,
um, stakeholders?
Are it really kind of broughttogether this idea of the
collaborative approach that wetake and have taken and have
(15:24):
found to be most successful?
Uh, with the way we do our work?
Uh, so it, the mission, cametogether, I think, a little
easier than the vision did, if Iremember that correctly.
Vision is always a tough one,um, but let's get into the how
part of how we get about gettingto our mission and vision and
(15:46):
get into the next phase.
Uh, well, I I almost jumpedahead of our, our core values.
So that that's another area.
You know, I talked about alreadyhad a strategic plan, and part
of that strategic plan was thelist of core values and for a
while, resource dabbled increation of our own values, but
(16:11):
it didn't really they.
They mostly overlapped with .
So it really didn't make a lotof sense for us to continue to
maintain multiple versions ofthese values when they are
shared values, of these valueswhen they are shared values at
(16:35):
their core.
So what we've done is justadopted them.
So those values are safety,trust and integrity,
transparency, collaboration anddiversity, equity and inclusion,
and those are ones that we feelare as equally important as
AASHTO or the parent or thelarger organization felt that
(16:56):
they were, and we continue tocarry those forward with our
AASHTO resource roadmap.
Anything you want to add tothat, bob?
Bob Lutz (17:05):
Just one thing, going back to my analogy, that you
know we're going on a trip andour vision is our destination,
our mission is our path to getthere, and our values are the
things that we care about.
So those are the things that wepack and take with us, because
(17:26):
we do care with them.
So the things that you take ona trip, typically when you're
going on a trip, are the thingsthat you care about and the
things that you need, and welook at the values as things
that we care about and thingsthat we need, and they truly
have been more than just wordson a piece of paper.
They are words that we talkabout regularly at meetings, we
(17:49):
talk about them and ask aboutthem in employee surveys, and
they do mean a lot to us.
So I'll add that, brian.
Brian Johnson (18:02):
All right, Thank you.
How easy is this to edit by?
the way Kim with the video We'llsee.
Okay, so I have another analogythat I thought about as we were
talking about the mission andvision and maybe you can correct
me if this makes no sense,Maybe it'll get deleted because
it just is terrible but I wasthinking about how we operate
(18:26):
and the analogy with us beingthe leaders of the quality
management revolution and I feellike and up to this point, it
was kind of like, and maybe notup to this point, but a couple
years ago we were kind ofdeveloping this new persona that
we have developed as being thiscollaborative, communicative
(18:48):
organization that we have becomesounding alarms for people,
suspending those who need to besuspended, or saying, hey,
there's something wrong here,but not actually doing anything
about it.
So I would say we have gonefrom being like the Paul Revere
(19:08):
to the George Washington of theAmerican Revolution and going
from just sounding the alarmsactually trying to lead the
revolution.
How is that for an analogy?
Is that fair?
Bob Lutz (19:21):
I'd like your analogy very much yeah.
Brian Johnson (19:24):
Okay, good.
Kim Swanson (19:25):
I don't know if a lot of people outside of the US
will understand that analogy,but for any of those vaguely
familiar with US history, Ithink that's a good analogy.
Brian Johnson (19:36):
I would think so, and hopefully some people know
something about the AmericanRevolution at least.
Maybe at least the GeorgeWashington name, I would hope,
would ring a bell.
Anyway, let's get into thenitty gritty details about how
we carry out this mission.
So one thing that we did andwas this was, I will say, a
(19:59):
little bit convoluted in thedevelopment phase, and this is
on me for the convoluted natureof this, because that's kind of
how my brain operates.
Uh, and, bob, you can correctme on this one too with your
recollection of this.
But we we had, we had a littledifficulty organizing our
thoughts, uh, but I feel reallygood about where we ended up.
But that may be because mybrain operates in a in a
(20:23):
convoluted way, as I mentioned.
Uh, but we came up with astrategic theme of leading by
example, because that leading byexample is the best way to lead
and it is the most effective,effective way to lead, as I can.
In my experience that has been,that has been the case.
(20:44):
So, in order to effectivelycarry out this road map or go
down this road, we are going toreport to lead by example, and
we do that through different keyobjectives.
These key objectives are earnthe trust of our key
(21:07):
stakeholders, embrace processeswhich foster continual
improvement, demonstrate ourcommitment to quality that's the
leading by example part againand inspire others to adopt a
quality culture.
So if we are truly leading byexample, we should inspire
others.
Bob Lutz (21:26):
Therefore, leading this quality revolution, uh, bob
, anything you want to add onthat aspect of it your
recollection is very, but Ithink the fact that we struggled
with this and went round andround is a good thing, because
it means we gave it a lot ofthought.
(21:46):
We really picked things apart,thought it through.
If it had been easy and quick Idon't think we would have felt
good about it.
But you know, we met weekly fora long time and then, to finish
this up, we went downtownFrederick and put ourselves in a
(22:10):
conference room for the betterpart of a day and this is what
we came up with.
But we did go round and round.
But I, like you, I feel reallygood about it.
Kim Swanson (22:19):
So what does this all mean for our customers?
Internally?
We've talked a little bit aboutwhat that means for our staff,
but what does all this mean forour customers and our external
stakeholders?
Bob?
Bob Lutz (22:30):
I think it means that they're going to see some
changes not immediate, buthopefully over the next three
and a half years they are goingto notice some changes.
To use Brian's analogy, insteadof merely sounding alarms,
we're going to be workingcollaboratively with them and
(22:53):
going alongside them on thisjourney instead of sounding
alarms.
So we've talked about how do wenot only you know, for example,
in a lab assessment sure, weneed to identify areas where the
standards are not being met andidentify non-conformities, but
(23:16):
let's change the way we thinkabout that a little bit as well
and let's also point out thingsthat the lab is doing well.
What are their, what are theirstrengths?
Let's give them some pats onthe back as well.
Let's provide moreopportunities for tech X, like
(23:36):
content through webinars.
Maybe we have talked about andI guess I'll stick my neck out
here and go go public and saynext fall, fall of 2025, we're
going to have a virtual tech X,not to replace but to supplement
our existing.
Yeah, I know, I know I said itbecause we understand that not
(24:00):
everybody can travel.
It's a big time commitment.
It's a money commitment as well.
So we're going to do somethings virtually as well.
I I expect that we're going toreach out, as we talked about
building this community ofmessengers.
We're going to reach out.
As we talked about buildingthis community of messengers,
(24:20):
we're going to reach out to morepeople and begin building that
community as well.
There are a number of thingsspecifically that we've talked
about.
One other one is you know, I'vechallenged John John Molesky to
find ways that we can take thisenormous population of
(24:41):
proficiency testing data and dosomething in addition to what
we're doing with it now.
What are some meaningful ways,information, graphs that we can
give to the customers, to thelabs that will help them, in
addition to what we already givethem?
So, brian, what would you liketo add to this part of the
(25:05):
conversation?
Brian Johnson (25:07):
Did you know I was thinking about adding
something by the expression onmy face?
Okay, so I was thinking about acouple of things.
One is just the value of thestrategic plan in general.
You know, we're trying togalvanize our staff to think
about things the way that mesheswith the strategic plan roadmap
, with the roadmap, and it alsois a declaration to our
(25:35):
customers and those stakeholdersthat we mean business about
this and we intend to uh servetheir needs the way we have
defined in this roadmap.
And one way that these thingsare going to result in a bit of
a change for people, or or anexpectation change maybe, uh, of
(25:57):
what we're, of what we'redelivering, is that we're
thinking about their needs andwe are intending to collaborate
with them.
We are intending to get awayfrom this idea of, oh, we're
here to check boxes, becausethere's always that expectation
for some of our customers.
(26:17):
Oh, you're just going to be inhere to check boxes, you know,
because there's always thatexpectation for some of our
customers.
Oh, you're just going to be inhere to check boxes and say, oh,
this lab is in conformance orthis lab is not in conformance.
But really, what we intend todo is a little bit more than
that and even with theassessment part of it, we really
want to shift our focus alittle bit more towards just the
(26:40):
continual improvement ofquality, as opposed to the okay,
we checked this box, we foundout, and we didn't check this
box, so there was nonconformityand then we want to make sure we
get to the point where we cancheck it ultimately, and then we
move on.
Let's think about it a littlebit more, let's get strategic,
(27:03):
let's work on quality, how itdoesn't mean that we're going to
just ignore a ton of things andthat we're only going to.
You know, some people will say,oh well, you didn't use common
sense.
That always drives me crazy, bythe way.
Uh, because there's no suchthing.
There's one thing I've learnedin my role is there's no such
thing.
There's one thing I've learnedin my role Is there's no such
thing as common sense Out there,because everybody has a
different idea About what thatmeans, and for some people, it
(27:24):
means that you just let them dowhatever they want.
And that is not what it's goingto mean.
Where we shift towards qualityand away from some of the
nitpicky things.
There will be times that westill have to focus on the
nitpicky things.
There will be times that westill have to focus on some of
the what one might consider tobe nitpicky items or minutiae we
(27:44):
will still have to worry aboutin some cases, but we really do
want to focus on continualimprovement and collaboration
with our customers.
Kim Swanson (27:52):
Well, I think we have a good overview of what's
happening here.
Is there anything else that youwant to make sure that our
customers know, or our staff?
Hopefully they'll be listeningto this too.
But about this new roadmap andwhat it looks like, you know in
the next year versus the next,you know in three years from now
(28:13):
.
Bob Lutz (28:14):
Well, I want to add that, look, we're really really
excited about this.
We put a lot of thought andeffort into it and we really
considered what we want out ofour key stakeholders but, even
more importantly, what they wantfrom us, and our intent is to
follow through and deliver.
As Brian mentioned a minute ago, point one, or our first
(28:37):
objective is to earn the trustof our key stakeholders.
That's going to be critical,and to earn the trust of our key
stakeholders, we're going tohave to produce, we're going to
have to follow through on thisroadmap.
So that means that every one ofus at Ash2Resource is going to
have to step up and be part ofthis journey.
Brian Johnson (28:57):
I did want to before we close this out.
I know we've been going on fora while and this episode's
getting a bit long, but I didwant to just touch base on some
of the actionable items.
So I mentioned those objectives.
There are what we've calledstrategies under each one of
those objectives, and if youlook at our um roadmap online on
(29:19):
our website, which will beposted uh at the time that this
is out, you'll be able to seewhat some of those commitments
are Uh, and the first one isactually honor our commitments,
uh, which is which is good thatwe started out strong there.
But we talk about practicingconsistency, acting on feedback
(29:40):
um, investing time andimprovement opportunities.
I was just working on that theother day.
In fact, when we have aninternal audit, we're often left
with improvement opportunitiesfrom our internal auditors and,
uh, I will sometimes organicallytake care of those things
because they get on my to-dolist, uh, but I actually took it
(30:03):
out, uh, took out the reportand went down the list on
improvement opportunities,something I have never done
before and I don't know that Iwould have done had we not just
gone through this uh, becausethere's always so much else to
do uh that you don't always havetime to to take care of those
improvement opportunities, uh,specifically the way that they
(30:26):
were written.
Um, we also talked about, uh,investing in training that
supports our vision.
So, thinking about the visionas we're analyzing our training
opportunities, so the way thatworks in practice is somebody on
my team, for example, may say,hey, I want to go and take this
(30:48):
training.
Well, now I say, oh well, howdoes that fit into our vision?
Does that?
Is that, you know, not just isit relevant to your job duties,
but is it relevant to the visionthat we've laid out here, and I
think that is going to beuseful.
Something that was in theinspire others to adopt a
(31:10):
culture of quality.
Kim, this is for you.
Maximize the use of educationalmaterial.
That is number one on the list.
So you and our trading manager,kate, we working together to
try to get some of those itemscommunicated.
So there's a ton of good stuffon there.
Uh, please check it out if youhave a chance.
(31:32):
And, uh, if we aren'tfulfilling any of those
strategies in your opinion, letus know about it.
Kim Swanson (31:41):
Oh for sure, Definitely hold us accountable.
That is why we are announcingthis to everybody.
So if you have feedback for us,don't wait for us to solicit
that.
You can email Bob directly.
Bob Lutz (31:57):
Thanks for that, don't wait for us to solicit that.
Kim Swanson (32:00):
You can email Bob directly.
Thanks for that, no problem.
Brian Johnson (32:06):
No problem, bob, and that's rlutz at
astrarisourceorg.
Yeah, it's funny you use thatterm accountability.
That was actually a bigdiscussion that we had as we
were putting together thestrategic plan, because
accountability honoringcommitments is is all about
accountability.
There's other elements ofaccountability in there, but
accountability often has anegative tone with staff.
So we were like, how can we sayaccountability without
(32:28):
specifically sayingaccountability in here?
Uh and, and I feel that, feelthat we've done that effectively
and we plan to hold ourselvesaccountable, but that's just one
of those nuances.
Kim Swanson (32:43):
Does accountability have a negative?
Brian Johnson (32:44):
connotation To some.
Kim Swanson (32:49):
All right, learn something new.
Brian Johnson (32:51):
And to some customers too.
I think that was probably abigger aspect, because that that
sounds like suspension to me ifI'm a customer, I don't know, I
mean, I guess I guess I'venever had.
Usually when I talk aboutaccountability it's not a real
crowd pleaser.
Bob Lutz (33:06):
I think when you use the word accountability or
accountable in a sentence likewe're going to hold you
accountable, then it sounds.
Kim Swanson (33:21):
Yeah, I'm always looking for accountability.
So I don't know, maybe I justhave a different mindset around
that, because to me there is nonegative connotation about being
accountable, but not everyonehas, you know, not if you have a
quality mindset you have agrowth mindset.
Brian Johnson (33:33):
That does not scare me.
Yes, that's a big part.
Yes, that's a big part of it.
That's a big part of it.
That's also why you are alsoleading the quality revolution,
kim.
Kim Swanson (33:43):
I am leading it, I am a general in the revolution.
Brian Johnson (33:47):
That's right.
Kim Swanson (33:47):
Maybe I'm just a lieutenant, probably not a
general, but I'll take it.
Bob Lutz (33:50):
Like General Washington.
Kim Swanson (33:53):
Yes, I think I'll be Lieutenant or Private.
I think let's not put me up asGeneral yet.
I think that's above my paygrade.
Bob Lutz (34:03):
Sergeant.
Kim Swanson (34:03):
Swanson, I'll take it.
I'll take it, but thank you,yeah, thanks for your time today
, bob, talking about this, Ihope it was helpful to our
listeners and again for ourlisteners.
If you have questions aboutthis or we don't feel like, if
(34:24):
you don't feel that we aremaking changes for the better,
let us know what you think.
Bob Lutz (34:29):
Absolutely.
Brian Johnson (34:30):
All right.
Thanks for joining us, Bob.
Bob Lutz (34:33):
I really enjoyed talking about it, brian, thanks
for your help.
Kim, thanks for the greatquestions, and I hope, maybe in
a year or so we can do an updateand revisit this topic.
Kim Swanson (34:43):
For sure.
Thanks for listening to AASHTOResource Q&A.
If you'd like to be a guest orjust submit a question, send us
an email at podcast@AASHTOresource.
org, or call Brian at240-436-4820.
For other news and relatedcontent, check out AASHTO
Resources social media accountsor go to aashtoresource.
(35:06):
org.
Welcome to AASHTO Resource Q&A.
We're taking time to discussconstruction materials, testing
and inspection with people inthe know.
From exploring testing problemsand solutions to laboratory
best practices and qualitymanagement, we're covering
topics important to you.
Brian Johnson (00:18):
Welcome to AASHTO Resource Q&A.
I'm Brian Johnson.
Kim Swanson (00:22):
I'm Kim Swanson and welcome to Season 5, episode 2.
We have a very special guesttoday Brian.
Brian Johnson (00:30):
Yes, it is Robert Lutz, my boss and yours.
Kim Swanson (00:34):
Welcome Bob.
Bob Lutz (00:36):
Good morning, happy to be here.
Kim Swanson (00:39):
So Bob is the director of AASHTO Resource, and
we have him on today to talkabout something we teased in
episode one of season five.
But why don't you tell me alittle bit more about it, Brian?
Because you were part of thiswhole process too, so do you
want to give some briefbackground, Brian?
Brian Johnson (00:56):
That's right.
First of all, if you are seeingthis on video, yes, we are
wearing the same exact clothesthat we were wearing in episode
one.
Because this is the same exactclothes that we were wearing in
episode one, because this is thesame day, but we did.
We did talk and give a littleintroduction to this episode.
We're going to talk about theroadmap resources roadmap, which
(01:19):
is a strategic plan, but we'renot going to call it that
officially because there is a ina pre-existing condition that
we're dealing with, called thestrategic plan.
Uh, that already has beenestablished.
So this is kind of a, anoffshoot, uh, of the strategic
(01:43):
plan that is specificallytailored to AASHTO resource, but
it is called a roadmap, so it'snot to confuse people.
Kim Swanson (01:53):
Yes, so AASHTO has a general strategic plan.
I believe those dates for theis 2024, or is it 2023?
What's the 2021.
One to 2026.
Six Yep, and then this roadmapis 2024 to 2027.
And it is just for AASHTOResource.
(02:15):
So, bob, let's dig into it.
Why now for this?
Bob Lutz (02:23):
I thought you were going to ask why not?
I think part of it has to dowith the fact that AASHTO does
have a strategic plan that we'vetalked about for the last
couple of years and in lookingat it I've really learned a lot
of things from it.
I've seen that it's been usedpretty effectively, but it's, in
my opinion, one of the betterwritten ones that I have seen.
(02:46):
So I had a conversation withBrian and also Malusky and
Sonya Puterbaugh, and we startedbatting around the idea of
whether we should do somethingsimilar.
For us.
We've never officially had ourown strategic plan or roadmap
(03:08):
and I'm sure you're going to asksome questions about the
details and why and what we'retrying to accomplish.
But you know we've had somesuccesses and we've had some
failures and I think this is agood time.
Anytime is a good time to havea strategic plan, but we're
really trying to build on whatAASHTO as an association has
(03:32):
done just in the last couple ofyears.
Their strategic plan really gotme thinking about the need and
necessity and the value of astrategic plan.
Kim Swanson (03:43):
Thank you for some of the background.
Let's kind of dive into some ofthis.
What are some of the thingsthat you've considered while you
were creating this?
Because I know Bob and Brian,you guys were part of it.
So, bob, do you want to shedany light onto some of that
process and how it kind offormed?
Bob Lutz (04:06):
Sure, absolutely Well, when we made the decision that
we were going to go down thisroad, one of the things I
started looking at was how to doone.
We've been through a processyears ago where we talked about
the traditional approach tostrategic plans, which kind of
(04:26):
revolves around strengths,weaknesses, opportunities and
threat a SWOT analysis.
But I came across a differentapproach in an article that
really appealed to me.
That was a little bit differentthan I thought it would better
fit what we were trying to doand what we were thinking about.
(04:49):
So, instead of that approach,it really started with
identifying who are your keystakeholders, and that led us
down in this interesting path.
And then we kind of got hung upon, well, what's a stakeholder
or what's a key stakeholder?
So we started looking at ourKPIs or key performance
(05:15):
indicators and that.
So we really took a step back.
But it was very useful in thediscussion.
And the other interestingapproach to this was there were
to identify a key stakeholder.
There were five questions thatwe had to answer and if you
didn't to qualify as astakeholder, you had to identify
(05:38):
for each question a yes or a no, and that was an interesting
process.
So you would think thatidentifying your key
stakeholders would be relativelyeasy and simple and quick, and
it wasn't, but it really forcedus into some really good
discussions.
We also talked about who are ourtarget customers.
(06:01):
You know, for us it's not justlabs or materials, testing and
inspection labs.
It goes beyond that.
Certainly all of thosegovernmental and regulatory
agencies that requireaccreditation are also another
set of customers.
So we had some goodconversations around that.
But then we started asking whatdo we want from each of those
(06:26):
key stakeholder groups and whatdo we think that they want from
us?
And again, we had some reallyinteresting discussions
revolving those groups.
We really learned a lot, Ithink, about each of those
groups, what we want from themand how are we going to go about
(06:50):
getting what we want from eachgroup.
Once we got to that point, thelast and final step was really
dividing excuse me deciding onand developing our vision and
our mission.
And again, I know you have somequestions about that, but the
(07:14):
process to develop the visionwas really critical in
developing everything else thatcame after that.
Brian Johnson (07:20):
All right, so let's talk about that vision.
I'm going to read it foreverybody.
Kim Swanson (07:25):
Yes, thank you.
Brian Johnson (07:27):
Our vision is leading a quality management
revolution within theconstruction materials, testing
and inspection industry.
That sounds pretty bold Leadinga quality revolution, quality
management revolution.
Couldn't even get it rightmyself after a second of having
read it, but yes, qualitymanagement revolution.
(07:49):
So, bob, what does that mean to?
Bob Lutz (07:51):
you and talks about quality and the way that they
are, the way that they live it,the way they are committed to it
.
And I'll give you an example.
You know, about seven years agowe came up with this idea for
(08:19):
the technical exchange and weweren't sure how that was going
to go and really that kind ofthat seed was planted back then
for the new vision.
What we realized through thetechnical exchange was that
there are a lot of people whocare about quality, who want to
get together and talk aboutquality, and our vision really
(08:47):
is trying to create an entireindustry, not just a small group
within that industry, of peoplewho have these conversations,
who care about all of theconcepts that we talk about at
things like the technicalexchange, ultimately to raise
the level of quality within ourindustry.
(09:09):
And our goal or our role reallyis leading it.
That doesn't mean that we arethe experts.
It means that we're going to bethe conduit, we're going to be
the mechanism for bringingpeople together, for having
these conversations, fromlearning from each other and
(09:30):
really what we want to do.
We want to lead the way, but wewant to create a community of
people who are the messenger.
So it's not just us.
It involves some of our keystakeholders, as we talked about
a minute ago.
Brian Johnson (09:48):
I'm going to talk about the vision.
It is a little unusual in thatit is an action instead of a
destination or some sort ofgrand concept.
I think that kind of speaks towhere we're going with this as
(10:11):
well.
Um, but, bob, can you, can youtalk about how we got there and
and why didn't we end up withjust uh, explaining what this,
uh, massive, grand outcome wouldbe and, went with it, what we
would be doing as the vision?
Bob Lutz (10:31):
well, I do think of it as a destination not to to
intentionally disagree with you,brian, but I do see it as a
destination.
It is meant to be kind of yournorth star, your your guiding
light, and it's supposed to bebold and actionable, yes, but
(10:52):
bold.
So I do see it as ourdestination.
That's where we're heading,that's where we want to get to
in the future, and one of theanalogies that I've made is in
my mind, anyhow, and that helpsme understand it is that the
vision is our destination.
If you think of yourselfplanning a trip, where are you
(11:12):
going?
That's our destination.
How are you going to get there?
What's the route that you'regoing to follow?
That's our mission.
Our mission is going to help usget to our destination or our
vision.
But, like with any trip, ourdestination or our vision, but
like with any trip, sometimesyou run into construction, you
(11:36):
run into detours.
Kim Swanson (11:36):
It's not always a straight line from where you are
to your vision, and you have tobe able to adapt.
Speaking of mission, I willread that for everybody as well.
So our mission is collaboratingwith our key stakeholders to
provide services that ensure theintegrity of the materials in
our nation's infrastructure.
So what does that missionreally mean to you, bob, and how
(11:57):
do you see that fitting into usleading a revolution?
Bob Lutz (12:01):
I think I mentioned this a minute ago.
One of the key points that weidentified is that, yes, we want
to be the leaders, but thatdoesn't mean that we're the only
ones involved in thesediscussions.
So the first part of thatmission is collaborating with
(12:22):
our key stakeholders.
Example.
So not in the beginning, butover the past few years, one of
the things that we've learned isthat there are key stakeholders
within our industry and thereare some outside of our industry
.
We've had some guest speakers atTechX who do not come from
within our own industry, butthey are experts in quality.
(12:48):
They may have some of them havebackground in the automotive
industry, for example.
Quality is a concept that isnot limited to our industry and
quality management systems arenot limited to our industry.
So one of the lessons thatwe've learned through TechX
(13:08):
again is that, hey, you knowwhat?
There are some people outsideof our industry that can help us
develop and spread this messageand in fact, they've been some
of the best presenters.
Best received presenters atTechX, best received presenters
at TechX have generated a lot ofinterest and have caused, I
(13:30):
think, all of us to look atquality as it applies to our
industry a little bitdifferently.
So again, we're trying to buildthis community, but that
community doesn't have to comein from within just the
construction materials industry,but we also have this focus on
materials as it relates toinfrastructure.
(13:53):
Ultimately, we exist, ashleyResource exists to help the
industry improve materialstesting and materials inspection
.
Literally, materials are thefoundation of our nation's
infrastructure.
So one can make the argumentthat materials testing is, could
(14:19):
be, the most important piece ofbuilding and developing our
nation's infrastructure.
So we want to remain true tothat mission as well.
So we have our existingservices, which we've had for a
number of years, but our missionalso is asking and requiring of
(14:41):
us to think about what areother ways, what are other
services that we can provide toget to that vision a little bit
faster yeah, so the mission, themission as it was being
developed, I think it it cametogether pretty nicely for us
because of the structure of theway we developed this.
Brian Johnson (15:01):
So, when we were having all of our meetings,
talking about key performanceindicators and, uh, who are um,
um, stakeholders?
Are it really kind of broughttogether this idea of the
collaborative approach that wetake and have taken and have
(15:24):
found to be most successful?
Uh, with the way we do our work?
Uh, so it, the mission, cametogether, I think, a little
easier than the vision did, if Iremember that correctly.
Vision is always a tough one,um, but let's get into the how
part of how we get about gettingto our mission and vision and
(15:46):
get into the next phase.
Uh, well, I I almost jumpedahead of our, our core values.
So that that's another area.
You know, I talked about alreadyhad a strategic plan, and part
of that strategic plan was thelist of core values and for a
while, resource dabbled increation of our own values, but
(16:11):
it didn't really they.
They mostly overlapped with .
So it really didn't make a lotof sense for us to continue to
maintain multiple versions ofthese values when they are
shared values, of these valueswhen they are shared values at
(16:35):
their core.
So what we've done is justadopted them.
So those values are safety,trust and integrity,
transparency, collaboration anddiversity, equity and inclusion,
and those are ones that we feelare as equally important as
AASHTO or the parent or thelarger organization felt that
(16:56):
they were, and we continue tocarry those forward with our
AASHTO resource roadmap.
Anything you want to add tothat, bob?
Bob Lutz (17:05):
Just one thing, going back to my analogy, that you
know we're going on a trip andour vision is our destination,
our mission is our path to getthere, and our values are the
things that we care about.
So those are the things that wepack and take with us, because
(17:26):
we do care with them.
So the things that you take ona trip, typically when you're
going on a trip, are the thingsthat you care about and the
things that you need, and welook at the values as things
that we care about and thingsthat we need, and they truly
have been more than just wordson a piece of paper.
They are words that we talkabout regularly at meetings, we
(17:49):
talk about them and ask aboutthem in employee surveys, and
they do mean a lot to us.
So I'll add that, brian.
Brian Johnson (18:02):
All right, Thank you.
How easy is this to edit by?
the way Kim with the video We'llsee.
Okay, so I have another analogythat I thought about as we were
talking about the mission andvision and maybe you can correct
me if this makes no sense,Maybe it'll get deleted because
it just is terrible but I wasthinking about how we operate
(18:26):
and the analogy with us beingthe leaders of the quality
management revolution and I feellike and up to this point, it
was kind of like, and maybe notup to this point, but a couple
years ago we were kind ofdeveloping this new persona that
we have developed as being thiscollaborative, communicative
(18:48):
organization that we have becomesounding alarms for people,
suspending those who need to besuspended, or saying, hey,
there's something wrong here,but not actually doing anything
about it.
So I would say we have gonefrom being like the Paul Revere
(19:08):
to the George Washington of theAmerican Revolution and going
from just sounding the alarmsactually trying to lead the
revolution.
How is that for an analogy?
Is that fair?
Bob Lutz (19:21):
I'd like your analogy very much yeah.
Brian Johnson (19:24):
Okay, good.
Kim Swanson (19:25):
I don't know if a lot of people outside of the US
will understand that analogy,but for any of those vaguely
familiar with US history, Ithink that's a good analogy.
Brian Johnson (19:36):
I would think so, and hopefully some people know
something about the AmericanRevolution at least.
Maybe at least the GeorgeWashington name, I would hope,
would ring a bell.
Anyway, let's get into thenitty gritty details about how
we carry out this mission.
So one thing that we did andwas this was, I will say, a
(19:59):
little bit convoluted in thedevelopment phase, and this is
on me for the convoluted natureof this, because that's kind of
how my brain operates.
Uh, and, bob, you can correctme on this one too with your
recollection of this.
But we we had, we had a littledifficulty organizing our
thoughts, uh, but I feel reallygood about where we ended up.
But that may be because mybrain operates in a in a
(20:23):
convoluted way, as I mentioned.
Uh, but we came up with astrategic theme of leading by
example, because that leading byexample is the best way to lead
and it is the most effective,effective way to lead, as I can.
In my experience that has been,that has been the case.
(20:44):
So, in order to effectivelycarry out this road map or go
down this road, we are going toreport to lead by example, and
we do that through different keyobjectives.
These key objectives are earnthe trust of our key
(21:07):
stakeholders, embrace processeswhich foster continual
improvement, demonstrate ourcommitment to quality that's the
leading by example part againand inspire others to adopt a
quality culture.
So if we are truly leading byexample, we should inspire
others.
Bob Lutz (21:26):
Therefore, leading this quality revolution, uh, bob
, anything you want to add onthat aspect of it your
recollection is very, but Ithink the fact that we struggled
with this and went round andround is a good thing, because
it means we gave it a lot ofthought.
(21:46):
We really picked things apart,thought it through.
If it had been easy and quick Idon't think we would have felt
good about it.
But you know, we met weekly fora long time and then, to finish
this up, we went downtownFrederick and put ourselves in a
(22:10):
conference room for the betterpart of a day and this is what
we came up with.
But we did go round and round.
But I, like you, I feel reallygood about it.
Kim Swanson (22:19):
So what does this all mean for our customers?
Internally?
We've talked a little bit aboutwhat that means for our staff,
but what does all this mean forour customers and our external
stakeholders?
Bob?
Bob Lutz (22:30):
I think it means that they're going to see some
changes not immediate, buthopefully over the next three
and a half years they are goingto notice some changes.
To use Brian's analogy, insteadof merely sounding alarms,
we're going to be workingcollaboratively with them and
(22:53):
going alongside them on thisjourney instead of sounding
alarms.
So we've talked about how do wenot only you know, for example,
in a lab assessment sure, weneed to identify areas where the
standards are not being met andidentify non-conformities, but
(23:16):
let's change the way we thinkabout that a little bit as well
and let's also point out thingsthat the lab is doing well.
What are their, what are theirstrengths?
Let's give them some pats onthe back as well.
Let's provide moreopportunities for tech X, like
(23:36):
content through webinars.
Maybe we have talked about andI guess I'll stick my neck out
here and go go public and saynext fall, fall of 2025, we're
going to have a virtual tech X,not to replace but to supplement
our existing.
Yeah, I know, I know I said itbecause we understand that not
(24:00):
everybody can travel.
It's a big time commitment.
It's a money commitment as well.
So we're going to do somethings virtually as well.
I I expect that we're going toreach out, as we talked about
building this community ofmessengers.
We're going to reach out.
As we talked about buildingthis community of messengers,
(24:20):
we're going to reach out to morepeople and begin building that
community as well.
There are a number of thingsspecifically that we've talked
about.
One other one is you know, I'vechallenged John John Molesky to
find ways that we can take thisenormous population of
(24:41):
proficiency testing data and dosomething in addition to what
we're doing with it now.
What are some meaningful ways,information, graphs that we can
give to the customers, to thelabs that will help them, in
addition to what we already givethem?
So, brian, what would you liketo add to this part of the
(25:05):
conversation?
Brian Johnson (25:07):
Did you know I was thinking about adding
something by the expression onmy face?
Okay, so I was thinking about acouple of things.
One is just the value of thestrategic plan in general.
You know, we're trying togalvanize our staff to think
about things the way that mesheswith the strategic plan roadmap
, with the roadmap, and it alsois a declaration to our
(25:35):
customers and those stakeholdersthat we mean business about
this and we intend to uh servetheir needs the way we have
defined in this roadmap.
And one way that these thingsare going to result in a bit of
a change for people, or or anexpectation change maybe, uh, of
(25:57):
what we're, of what we'redelivering, is that we're
thinking about their needs andwe are intending to collaborate
with them.
We are intending to get awayfrom this idea of, oh, we're
here to check boxes, becausethere's always that expectation
for some of our customers.
(26:17):
Oh, you're just going to be inhere to check boxes, you know,
because there's always thatexpectation for some of our
customers.
Oh, you're just going to be inhere to check boxes and say, oh,
this lab is in conformance orthis lab is not in conformance.
But really, what we intend todo is a little bit more than
that and even with theassessment part of it, we really
want to shift our focus alittle bit more towards just the
(26:40):
continual improvement ofquality, as opposed to the okay,
we checked this box, we foundout, and we didn't check this
box, so there was nonconformityand then we want to make sure we
get to the point where we cancheck it ultimately, and then we
move on.
Let's think about it a littlebit more, let's get strategic,
(27:03):
let's work on quality, how itdoesn't mean that we're going to
just ignore a ton of things andthat we're only going to.
You know, some people will say,oh well, you didn't use common
sense.
That always drives me crazy, bythe way.
Uh, because there's no suchthing.
There's one thing I've learnedin my role is there's no such
thing.
There's one thing I've learnedin my role Is there's no such
thing as common sense Out there,because everybody has a
different idea About what thatmeans, and for some people, it
(27:24):
means that you just let them dowhatever they want.
And that is not what it's goingto mean.
Where we shift towards qualityand away from some of the
nitpicky things.
There will be times that westill have to focus on the
nitpicky things.
There will be times that westill have to focus on some of
the what one might consider tobe nitpicky items or minutiae we
(27:44):
will still have to worry aboutin some cases, but we really do
want to focus on continualimprovement and collaboration
with our customers.
Kim Swanson (27:52):
Well, I think we have a good overview of what's
happening here.
Is there anything else that youwant to make sure that our
customers know, or our staff?
Hopefully they'll be listeningto this too.
But about this new roadmap andwhat it looks like, you know in
the next year versus the next,you know in three years from now
(28:13):
.
Bob Lutz (28:14):
Well, I want to add that, look, we're really really
excited about this.
We put a lot of thought andeffort into it and we really
considered what we want out ofour key stakeholders but, even
more importantly, what they wantfrom us, and our intent is to
follow through and deliver.
As Brian mentioned a minute ago, point one, or our first
(28:37):
objective is to earn the trustof our key stakeholders.
That's going to be critical,and to earn the trust of our key
stakeholders, we're going tohave to produce, we're going to
have to follow through on thisroadmap.
So that means that every one ofus at Ash2Resource is going to
have to step up and be part ofthis journey.
Brian Johnson (28:57):
I did want to before we close this out.
I know we've been going on fora while and this episode's
getting a bit long, but I didwant to just touch base on some
of the actionable items.
So I mentioned those objectives.
There are what we've calledstrategies under each one of
those objectives, and if youlook at our um roadmap online on
(29:19):
our website, which will beposted uh at the time that this
is out, you'll be able to seewhat some of those commitments
are Uh, and the first one isactually honor our commitments,
uh, which is which is good thatwe started out strong there.
But we talk about practicingconsistency, acting on feedback
(29:40):
um, investing time andimprovement opportunities.
I was just working on that theother day.
In fact, when we have aninternal audit, we're often left
with improvement opportunitiesfrom our internal auditors and,
uh, I will sometimes organicallytake care of those things
because they get on my to-dolist, uh, but I actually took it
(30:03):
out, uh, took out the reportand went down the list on
improvement opportunities,something I have never done
before and I don't know that Iwould have done had we not just
gone through this uh, becausethere's always so much else to
do uh that you don't always havetime to to take care of those
improvement opportunities, uh,specifically the way that they
(30:26):
were written.
Um, we also talked about, uh,investing in training that
supports our vision.
So, thinking about the visionas we're analyzing our training
opportunities, so the way thatworks in practice is somebody on
my team, for example, may say,hey, I want to go and take this
(30:48):
training.
Well, now I say, oh well, howdoes that fit into our vision?
Does that?
Is that, you know, not just isit relevant to your job duties,
but is it relevant to the visionthat we've laid out here, and I
think that is going to beuseful.
Something that was in theinspire others to adopt a
(31:10):
culture of quality.
Kim, this is for you.
Maximize the use of educationalmaterial.
That is number one on the list.
So you and our trading manager,kate, we working together to
try to get some of those itemscommunicated.
So there's a ton of good stuffon there.
Uh, please check it out if youhave a chance.
(31:32):
And, uh, if we aren'tfulfilling any of those
strategies in your opinion, letus know about it.
Kim Swanson (31:41):
Oh for sure, Definitely hold us accountable.
That is why we are announcingthis to everybody.
So if you have feedback for us,don't wait for us to solicit
that.
You can email Bob directly.
Bob Lutz (31:57):
Thanks for that, don't wait for us to solicit that.
Kim Swanson (32:00):
You can email Bob directly.
Thanks for that, no problem.
Brian Johnson (32:06):
No problem, bob, and that's rlutz at
astrarisourceorg.
Yeah, it's funny you use thatterm accountability.
That was actually a bigdiscussion that we had as we
were putting together thestrategic plan, because
accountability honoringcommitments is is all about
accountability.
There's other elements ofaccountability in there, but
accountability often has anegative tone with staff.
So we were like, how can we sayaccountability without
(32:28):
specifically sayingaccountability in here?
Uh and, and I feel that, feelthat we've done that effectively
and we plan to hold ourselvesaccountable, but that's just one
of those nuances.
Kim Swanson (32:43):
Does accountability have a negative?
Brian Johnson (32:44):
connotation To some.
Kim Swanson (32:49):
All right, learn something new.
Brian Johnson (32:51):
And to some customers too.
I think that was probably abigger aspect, because that that
sounds like suspension to me ifI'm a customer, I don't know, I
mean, I guess I guess I'venever had.
Usually when I talk aboutaccountability it's not a real
crowd pleaser.
Bob Lutz (33:06):
I think when you use the word accountability or
accountable in a sentence likewe're going to hold you
accountable, then it sounds.
Kim Swanson (33:21):
Yeah, I'm always looking for accountability.
So I don't know, maybe I justhave a different mindset around
that, because to me there is nonegative connotation about being
accountable, but not everyonehas, you know, not if you have a
quality mindset you have agrowth mindset.
Brian Johnson (33:33):
That does not scare me.
Yes, that's a big part.
Yes, that's a big part of it.
That's a big part of it.
That's also why you are alsoleading the quality revolution,
kim.
Kim Swanson (33:43):
I am leading it, I am a general in the revolution.
Brian Johnson (33:47):
That's right.
Kim Swanson (33:47):
Maybe I'm just a lieutenant, probably not a
general, but I'll take it.
Bob Lutz (33:50):
Like General Washington.
Kim Swanson (33:53):
Yes, I think I'll be Lieutenant or Private.
I think let's not put me up asGeneral yet.
I think that's above my paygrade.
Bob Lutz (34:03):
Sergeant.
Kim Swanson (34:03):
Swanson, I'll take it.
I'll take it, but thank you,yeah, thanks for your time today
, bob, talking about this, Ihope it was helpful to our
listeners and again for ourlisteners.
If you have questions aboutthis or we don't feel like, if
(34:24):
you don't feel that we aremaking changes for the better,
let us know what you think.
Bob Lutz (34:29):
Absolutely.
Brian Johnson (34:30):
All right.
Thanks for joining us, Bob.
Bob Lutz (34:33):
I really enjoyed talking about it, brian, thanks
for your help.
Kim, thanks for the greatquestions, and I hope, maybe in
a year or so we can do an updateand revisit this topic.
Kim Swanson (34:43):
For sure.
Thanks for listening to AASHTOResource Q&A.
If you'd like to be a guest orjust submit a question, send us
an email at podcast@AASHTOresource.
org, or call Brian at240-436-4820.
For other news and relatedcontent, check out AASHTO
Resources social media accountsor go to aashtoresource.
(35:06):
org.
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