November 5, 2024 • 17 mins
This burning question is at the heart of our latest episode, where we unravel the complexities of choosing the right organization for aggregate and rebar evaluations. We navigate the nuanced scopes of CCRL and AASHTO re:source, addressing why each offers these services and how customer demand has fostered an overlap.
Explore the essentials of proficiency sample programs and the critical distinctions in assessment services—CCRL’s focus on specific testing methods versus AASHTO’s broader coverage. Dive into strategic insights for laboratories, empowering you to make informed decisions in the assessment process.
Our conversation also uncovers the financial and logistical factors pivotal to selecting your assessment provider. We spotlight the hidden costs and timing implications that can affect your lab’s operations. Learn how to navigate the intricacies of obtaining estimates, and understand why timing is everything when it comes to maintaining AASHTO Accreditation without a hitch.
Related information:
Have questions, comments, or want to be a guest on an upcoming episode? Email podcast@aashtoresource.org.
Related information on this and other episodes can be found at aashtoresource.org.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kim Swanson (00:03):
Welcome to AASHTO Resource Q&A.
We're taking time to discussconstruction materials, testing
and inspection with people inthe know.
From exploring testing problemsand solutions to laboratory
best practices and qualitymanagement, we're covering
topics important to you.
Brian Johnson (00:18):
Welcome to AASHTO Resource Q&A.
I am Brian Johnson.
Kim Swanson (00:23):
And I am Kim Swanson.
Thanks for joining us today.
Listeners.
Brian Johnson (00:28):
Yeah, thanks, yeah, thank you for joining us
listeners.
And today we're going to talkabout a question that I've
gotten I mean, I've gotten somany times over the years.
We never really addressed itbecause it's kind of a minor
point, but it is a question thatwe get often, so we want to
talk about it.
Kim Swanson (00:48):
Yes, and the question is who should perform
the aggregate and rebarassessments CCRL or AASHTO
resource?
So it sounds kind of like astraightforward question when I
say it, but I know there's moreto it, because of course it's
not a straightforward question.
Hello, this is AASHTO Resourcewe're talking about.
(01:10):
There's not just astraightforward answer,
unfortunately.
So let's first get into why doboth CCRL and AASHTO Resource
perform assessments for thosescopes?
Brian Johnson (01:26):
perform assessments for those scopes,
okay, well, I'll start with thebasics, and, and that's that,
(01:50):
both aggregate and rebar, uh,those, those materials are
components of construction onboth the uh concrete and masonry
side of the house and justgeneral construction materials
side of the house.
So so we've got uh, rebar andaggregates that are components
of any sort of like masonryconstruction project, and
concrete too, uh, although I amgoing to get into that something
that seems like it's missing onthe ccl side as it pertains to
that.
And then you've got uh, justsuch we we have a whole iron and
(02:15):
steel scope on the astroresource side because the dots
test those materials and theywant that to be included.
Um, so that's the main reasonwhy they're both offered, uh,
but if you use that logic, youwould probably add more things
yeah to that as well, like soiltesting, you know.
(02:36):
So there's laboratories thattest just concrete, soil
aggregate and rebar, so that youknow that might be something
that CCRO would offer one day,just for one assessment to
happen.
And then, on the AASHTOresource side, you might say the
same thing about concrete right.
So there's a lot of laboratoriesthat do concrete, asphalt, soil
(03:01):
, aggregate and steel testingand they may want just one
assessment.
So those things are probablyquestions that have come up from
time to time with all of ourcustomers.
But we still stick with ourcore groups of activities and
then there's a little bit ofbleed over into the other
(03:22):
programs.
Anyway, so that's the basics ofthat.
Kim Swanson (03:27):
And to see the full scope of what our assessments
and what the CCRL assessmentsand the AASHTO resource
assessments cover or can cover,you can go to our website's
perspective like prospectively,the perspective website to see
what's covered under each.
If you are curious for moredetails about that, our website
(03:47):
is ashtoresourceorg and thenCCRL is CCRLus.
If you want more information ontheir scopes of services, we
both perform them because ourboth of our customers want them.
Is the short term generalanswer to that.
As those what I'm hearing rightright and but.
Brian Johnson (04:08):
But what I was going to say is there are some
other things that people wouldlike.
So, yeah, I talk aboutcomponents of masonry and
concrete.
Welded wire is also anothercommon steel product that goes
into uh concrete, for example.
But ccl doesn't cover that andI'm not really sure why I've.
(04:28):
I've asked them that before and, um, I don't know if they've
been working on adding that tothe, the the steel scope, or not
, but they certainly could Uh,but right now they just have
rebar and they also have rebarproficiency samples, and whether
you're accredited uh throughthe AASHTO accreditation program
based on your AASHTO resourceor CCRL assessments for rebar,
(04:52):
you would still be required toparticipate in the CCRL rebar
proficiency sample program,because we don't have that.
Kim Swanson (05:12):
We don't have any overlap resource aggregate
proficiency sample because thereis no overlap.
Am I correct in that or did I?
Brian Johnson (05:19):
That is correct, okay.
Kim Swanson (05:20):
Your face made me second guess myself halfway
through that.
Brian Johnson (05:24):
No, you're right on.
Like I said, there's no overlapwith proficiency samples.
So it's AASHTO resource foraggregate and it's CCRL for
rebar.
But another difference thatyou'll see in the two programs
is the scope.
So, like I said earlier, we'retalking about rebar.
(05:44):
Ccrl will cover rebar in anassessment.
Uh, if you look at the iron andsteel scope for ashto resource,
it's really extensive.
So there are all sorts of, youknow, bolts and um wire and
seven wire strand and, uh,different types of rebar uh, and
(06:06):
quite a few options fordifferent tests that you can
perform on those that areoffered through the AASHTO
resource scope.
But then, if you look at CCRL,it's basically tensile and bend
testing on rebar, so morelimited scope on that side.
Kim Swanson (06:19):
Oh, I did not realize that.
So I, today I learned um.
Today I learned that cause Ihad no idea I learned Today.
I learned that because I had noidea.
So if we both can perform theassessments for that, what are
some of the factors a laboratoryshould consider when they're
figuring out who to get theirassessment through for that?
Brian Johnson (06:45):
Well, one of the main ones that people like to
talk about is costs, of course.
So I think that it wouldbehoove somebody to look at
their total scope of whatthey're asking for for the
assessment and compare theprices of the two and see which
one is the uh, which what.
Which one is more costeffective?
Uh, so that that is one elementof it, and I I think it really
depends on how big of a scopeyou're looking at like.
If you're looking at a reallysmall scope, you might find that
(07:08):
CCRL is a better option forcost, on rebar for example.
But if you're looking at addingmore things, then all of a
sudden that could change becauseyou say, well, I'm only getting
rebar here, but then I alsohave to have Azure Resource come
in to cover the rest of it.
So then all of a sudden it'snot such a cost savings anymore.
A resource come in to cover therest of it.
So then all of a sudden it'snot such a cost savings anymore.
(07:29):
Same for aggregate.
So I kind of skipped over this.
But your basic concreteaggregate assessment from CCRL
is pretty cost effective for thebasic aggregate tests, but then
once you start adding moreaggregate tests to that, it gets
a little bit more, even as faras price goes.
Now, like I said, it justdepends on the scope that you're
looking at, and I haven't donea full analysis of where that
(07:53):
break-even point occurs, butit's something that you have to
look at if you're new to theprogram.
The other thing you might wantto consider is just what style
you like, because even thoughthey're supposed to be about the
same, the assessments are alittle different from one to the
(08:14):
next, and if you've had both ofthem, you probably have a
preference, and if you preferone over the other, then you can
make your decision based onthat.
Kim Swanson (08:25):
If you already need both the CCRL assessment and
the AASHTO resource assessment,then there is really a
comparison.
But let's say you only need therebar, but everything else is
in AASHTO resource scope, andmaybe you're doing soil and then
you need to do aggregate orrebar.
(08:45):
Then it's, is it like like, isthere a?
Brian Johnson (08:49):
it doesn't, it wouldn't make much sense, yeah,
it wouldn't make much sense inthat case, and that's why I I'm
not giving a great answer tothis, because it's not that
simple.
Yeah, uh, the the other aspectof this is that the ashtar
resource assessments are aretime so that's kind of an it
depends answer on its own.
(09:11):
How much is?
this going to cost.
Well, we have a general ideabased on typical labs, but you
might be slightly faster orslightly slower than typical
labs, so that could have aimpact on the final result of
your costs.
Kim Swanson (09:26):
And I'm trying to think of any of the other
factors or any of the otherconsiderations that go into this
from a laboratory's perspective, of what they should be
thinking about.
And is this going to be theshortest episode ever?
Did we just cover everything weneeded?
Brian Johnson (09:40):
to cover.
No, we didn't.
Okay, I knew I was missingsomething.
Sadly, no.
Kim Swanson (09:45):
I knew we were missing something.
I knew we were missingsomething.
I knew we were missingsomething let's talk about time
because time is a big impact.
Yes, yes, yes.
Brian Johnson (09:52):
Astro Resource and CCRL have different tours
and where those organizationsare on the tour and when you
request your assessment, have animpact on how much that's going
to cost you for the assessmentassessment have an impact on how
much that's going to cost youfor the assessment.
So let's say you have found thatfor your scope CCRL is cheaper
(10:13):
than AASHTO resource, but CCRLis not coming for another year
and a half to your area and ifyou go through them it's going
to cost extra for anout-of-sequence fee.
All of a sudden it may be adifferent story for you as far
as what that costs.
Same thing can happen on theAASHTO resource side.
(10:34):
We might not come to your areaat the time you want, and then
you have to then have the addedchallenge of asking each one of
the organizations what theout-of-sequence fees will be for
you and then you have todetermine if that's right.
Plus, if you can get everythingthrough the one organization
(10:55):
and you have a project coming upand you really want to get
accredited right away, you mayopt for whichever organization
serves your purposes better.
So time and money obviously twobig factors.
Scope is another one and justpreferences, yeah.
(11:19):
So I think those are the mainreasons, okay.
Kim Swanson (11:24):
So this could be a pretty short episode.
I mean, there was not that muchwhen you said it's not that
short.
So, with everything in mind, isthere an easy way for customers
to figure this stuff out, or isit just getting the information
and doing the analysisthemselves?
Brian Johnson (11:41):
C-SERAL does have a price sheet on their website
that you can look at, whateverthe scope is.
But if you have specialquestions about out-of-sequence
fees, those would be best to askthem.
So contact them and say I wantmy assessment at this time of
year and I want to cover thesetests.
(12:03):
How much would this cost?
And they can give you anestimate that way.
Similarly, you can reach out toAshton Resource.
You can actually fill out arequest form online and it will
give you an estimate for thatscope of services and that's
based on like typical timeframes.
So it'll be pretty close.
Like I said, there's a littleuneasiness or uncertainty about
(12:28):
what that final result's gonnabe, but it's gonna be pretty
close to that estimate.
So you can get an estimatethere.
But same question about out ofsequence Okay, when are you
coming?
Do I have to pay extra for that?
And if you do both of thosethings, you can get a good
handle on what your totalexpenses are going to be and
then you can make a decision onwhich one you prefer.
Kim Swanson (12:49):
You can get AASHTO accreditation no matter who
performs your assessment.
So even if CCRL performs it foraggregate or rebar, you can
still get AASHTO accredited fromit and you will still have to
work with the AASHTO accreditedfrom it and you will still have
to work with the AASHTOaccreditation programs quality
analysts to resolve any of thenon-conformities found in either
one of your reports.
Brian Johnson (13:09):
So no matter who it is, the follow-up to it will
be the same, no matter whatthat's right, and those are the
only two assessment providersthat will give you AASHTO
accreditation at the end of theday, or will let lead to AASHTO
accreditation at the end of theday or will lead to AASHTO
accreditation.
Kim Swanson (13:22):
You don't have to get it from both groups right.
You don't need to double up andget assessment for aggregate or
rebar from both.
You can pick one and stick withthat, or pick one and then
switch, depending on the timingright.
Brian Johnson (13:40):
Depending on the timing, is the is the issue.
Okay, part yeah so, uh, theproblem we have is if, if you've
gotten an assessment throughone of the organizations and
then you want to switch to theother one, you can't skip a tour
yeah to to then get it like youcan't extend your time interval
.
(14:00):
Let's say that they were bothrunning smoothly at a 27 month
interval.
You can't get extra time byswitching.
You can't say okay, well, I'mgonna skip my normally scheduled
assessment because I know thenext one's coming the following
year and I want to drag this outlonger.
What would happen in that caseis you would end up losing
(14:23):
accreditation until the nextaccreditation body rolled
through.
So typically what people willdo when they transition is
they'll end up getting anoverlap for that one time that
they need to transition, andsometimes those are far apart
(14:43):
and sometimes they're close.
When it's far apart, you don'treally notice it.
You know, if it's kind of in themiddle of the of the sequence,
but if it's one after the other,uh, people are thinking they
have deja vu.
They're like I could have sworeI just did this.
You know, I don't remember, anduh, that it's probably good,
(15:05):
and, and it's really a smallscope, like in both of these
cases, we're talking about, uhwhat?
Five to to six agri tests andand and and rebar tensile and
bend for the overlapping scope,so it's not a whole lot.
Kim Swanson (15:21):
Recap it is you can shorten the interval for those
two scopes, but you cannotextend the interval for those
two scopes when you're trying.
If you are switching betweenassessment providers.
Brian Johnson (15:35):
That is correct.
Kim Swanson (15:36):
Okay, is there anything else that I don't know
to ask about this, because therecould be for sure, or did we
cover all the highlights here?
Brian Johnson (15:46):
I think we covered the highlights.
It's not overly complicated,but there just are some
considerations people have tohave in mind and I think most of
the time people have these inmind to begin with, at least on
their decision making and whatis important to them is
concerned, at least on theirdecision-making and what is
important to them is concerned.
But I think the only thingpeople get confused about is the
(16:06):
fact that they might have tooverlap the assessments before
they transition from one to theother.
Kim Swanson (16:11):
Well, thank you for addressing this common question
and before we go, I just wantto put in a plug.
It's this time of year again,as of the recording of this
episode that we are gearing upfor the 2025 AASHTO Resource
Technical Exchange.
It's happening March 17ththrough the 20th 2025, in
(16:32):
Bellevue, washington, so go toaashtoresourceorg slash events
for more details on that.
Brian Johnson (16:40):
Yeah, it should be a good time.
I was actually late for ourrecording today because I was in
a meeting about the technicalexchange where we were still
putting together the program andfiguring out who our guest
speakers are going to be.
We always have great panelistsand roundtables and it's truly
an interactive experience.
So if you haven't been to atechnical exchange especially if
(17:02):
you live on the West coast orin Hawaii or Alaska the one in
Bellevue, washington, is goingto be a lot easier for you to
attend than some of the otherones.
So hopefully people can checkit out and we get a lot of
attendees.
Kim Swanson (17:15):
All right.
Well, thanks again, Brian, foryour time today.
Brian Johnson (17:17):
Thanks again.
Kim Swanson (17:24):
Thanks for listening to AASHTO Resource Q&A
.
If you'd like to be a guest orjust submit a question, send us
an email at podcast ataashtoresourceorg, or call Brian
at 240-436-4820.
For other news and relatedcontent, check out AASHTO
Resources social media accountsor go to aashtoresourceorg.
Welcome to AASHTO Resource Q&A.
We're taking time to discussconstruction materials, testing
and inspection with people inthe know.
From exploring testing problemsand solutions to laboratory
best practices and qualitymanagement, we're covering
topics important to you.
Brian Johnson (00:18):
Welcome to AASHTO Resource Q&A.
I am Brian Johnson.
Kim Swanson (00:23):
And I am Kim Swanson.
Thanks for joining us today.
Listeners.
Brian Johnson (00:28):
Yeah, thanks, yeah, thank you for joining us
listeners.
And today we're going to talkabout a question that I've
gotten I mean, I've gotten somany times over the years.
We never really addressed itbecause it's kind of a minor
point, but it is a question thatwe get often, so we want to
talk about it.
Kim Swanson (00:48):
Yes, and the question is who should perform
the aggregate and rebarassessments CCRL or AASHTO
resource?
So it sounds kind of like astraightforward question when I
say it, but I know there's moreto it, because of course it's
not a straightforward question.
Hello, this is AASHTO Resourcewe're talking about.
(01:10):
There's not just astraightforward answer,
unfortunately.
So let's first get into why doboth CCRL and AASHTO Resource
perform assessments for thosescopes?
Brian Johnson (01:26):
perform assessments for those scopes,
okay, well, I'll start with thebasics, and, and that's that,
(01:50):
both aggregate and rebar, uh,those, those materials are
components of construction onboth the uh concrete and masonry
side of the house and justgeneral construction materials
side of the house.
So so we've got uh, rebar andaggregates that are components
of any sort of like masonryconstruction project, and
concrete too, uh, although I amgoing to get into that something
that seems like it's missing onthe ccl side as it pertains to
that.
And then you've got uh, justsuch we we have a whole iron and
(02:15):
steel scope on the astroresource side because the dots
test those materials and theywant that to be included.
Um, so that's the main reasonwhy they're both offered, uh,
but if you use that logic, youwould probably add more things
yeah to that as well, like soiltesting, you know.
(02:36):
So there's laboratories thattest just concrete, soil
aggregate and rebar, so that youknow that might be something
that CCRO would offer one day,just for one assessment to
happen.
And then, on the AASHTOresource side, you might say the
same thing about concrete right.
So there's a lot of laboratoriesthat do concrete, asphalt, soil
(03:01):
, aggregate and steel testingand they may want just one
assessment.
So those things are probablyquestions that have come up from
time to time with all of ourcustomers.
But we still stick with ourcore groups of activities and
then there's a little bit ofbleed over into the other
(03:22):
programs.
Anyway, so that's the basics ofthat.
Kim Swanson (03:27):
And to see the full scope of what our assessments
and what the CCRL assessmentsand the AASHTO resource
assessments cover or can cover,you can go to our website's
perspective like prospectively,the perspective website to see
what's covered under each.
If you are curious for moredetails about that, our website
(03:47):
is ashtoresourceorg and thenCCRL is CCRLus.
If you want more information ontheir scopes of services, we
both perform them because ourboth of our customers want them.
Is the short term generalanswer to that.
As those what I'm hearing rightright and but.
Brian Johnson (04:08):
But what I was going to say is there are some
other things that people wouldlike.
So, yeah, I talk aboutcomponents of masonry and
concrete.
Welded wire is also anothercommon steel product that goes
into uh concrete, for example.
But ccl doesn't cover that andI'm not really sure why I've.
(04:28):
I've asked them that before and, um, I don't know if they've
been working on adding that tothe, the the steel scope, or not
, but they certainly could Uh,but right now they just have
rebar and they also have rebarproficiency samples, and whether
you're accredited uh throughthe AASHTO accreditation program
based on your AASHTO resourceor CCRL assessments for rebar,
(04:52):
you would still be required toparticipate in the CCRL rebar
proficiency sample program,because we don't have that.
Kim Swanson (05:12):
We don't have any overlap resource aggregate
proficiency sample because thereis no overlap.
Am I correct in that or did I?
Brian Johnson (05:19):
That is correct, okay.
Kim Swanson (05:20):
Your face made me second guess myself halfway
through that.
Brian Johnson (05:24):
No, you're right on.
Like I said, there's no overlapwith proficiency samples.
So it's AASHTO resource foraggregate and it's CCRL for
rebar.
But another difference thatyou'll see in the two programs
is the scope.
So, like I said earlier, we'retalking about rebar.
(05:44):
Ccrl will cover rebar in anassessment.
Uh, if you look at the iron andsteel scope for ashto resource,
it's really extensive.
So there are all sorts of, youknow, bolts and um wire and
seven wire strand and, uh,different types of rebar uh, and
(06:06):
quite a few options fordifferent tests that you can
perform on those that areoffered through the AASHTO
resource scope.
But then, if you look at CCRL,it's basically tensile and bend
testing on rebar, so morelimited scope on that side.
Kim Swanson (06:19):
Oh, I did not realize that.
So I, today I learned um.
Today I learned that cause Ihad no idea I learned Today.
I learned that because I had noidea.
So if we both can perform theassessments for that, what are
some of the factors a laboratoryshould consider when they're
figuring out who to get theirassessment through for that?
Brian Johnson (06:45):
Well, one of the main ones that people like to
talk about is costs, of course.
So I think that it wouldbehoove somebody to look at
their total scope of whatthey're asking for for the
assessment and compare theprices of the two and see which
one is the uh, which what.
Which one is more costeffective?
Uh, so that that is one elementof it, and I I think it really
depends on how big of a scopeyou're looking at like.
If you're looking at a reallysmall scope, you might find that
(07:08):
CCRL is a better option forcost, on rebar for example.
But if you're looking at addingmore things, then all of a
sudden that could change becauseyou say, well, I'm only getting
rebar here, but then I alsohave to have Azure Resource come
in to cover the rest of it.
So then all of a sudden it'snot such a cost savings anymore.
A resource come in to cover therest of it.
So then all of a sudden it'snot such a cost savings anymore.
(07:29):
Same for aggregate.
So I kind of skipped over this.
But your basic concreteaggregate assessment from CCRL
is pretty cost effective for thebasic aggregate tests, but then
once you start adding moreaggregate tests to that, it gets
a little bit more, even as faras price goes.
Now, like I said, it justdepends on the scope that you're
looking at, and I haven't donea full analysis of where that
(07:53):
break-even point occurs, butit's something that you have to
look at if you're new to theprogram.
The other thing you might wantto consider is just what style
you like, because even thoughthey're supposed to be about the
same, the assessments are alittle different from one to the
(08:14):
next, and if you've had both ofthem, you probably have a
preference, and if you preferone over the other, then you can
make your decision based onthat.
Kim Swanson (08:25):
If you already need both the CCRL assessment and
the AASHTO resource assessment,then there is really a
comparison.
But let's say you only need therebar, but everything else is
in AASHTO resource scope, andmaybe you're doing soil and then
you need to do aggregate orrebar.
(08:45):
Then it's, is it like like, isthere a?
Brian Johnson (08:49):
it doesn't, it wouldn't make much sense, yeah,
it wouldn't make much sense inthat case, and that's why I I'm
not giving a great answer tothis, because it's not that
simple.
Yeah, uh, the the other aspectof this is that the ashtar
resource assessments are aretime so that's kind of an it
depends answer on its own.
(09:11):
How much is?
this going to cost.
Well, we have a general ideabased on typical labs, but you
might be slightly faster orslightly slower than typical
labs, so that could have aimpact on the final result of
your costs.
Kim Swanson (09:26):
And I'm trying to think of any of the other
factors or any of the otherconsiderations that go into this
from a laboratory's perspective, of what they should be
thinking about.
And is this going to be theshortest episode ever?
Did we just cover everything weneeded?
Brian Johnson (09:40):
to cover.
No, we didn't.
Okay, I knew I was missingsomething.
Sadly, no.
Kim Swanson (09:45):
I knew we were missing something.
I knew we were missingsomething.
I knew we were missingsomething let's talk about time
because time is a big impact.
Yes, yes, yes.
Brian Johnson (09:52):
Astro Resource and CCRL have different tours
and where those organizationsare on the tour and when you
request your assessment, have animpact on how much that's going
to cost you for the assessmentassessment have an impact on how
much that's going to cost youfor the assessment.
So let's say you have found thatfor your scope CCRL is cheaper
(10:13):
than AASHTO resource, but CCRLis not coming for another year
and a half to your area and ifyou go through them it's going
to cost extra for anout-of-sequence fee.
All of a sudden it may be adifferent story for you as far
as what that costs.
Same thing can happen on theAASHTO resource side.
(10:34):
We might not come to your areaat the time you want, and then
you have to then have the addedchallenge of asking each one of
the organizations what theout-of-sequence fees will be for
you and then you have todetermine if that's right.
Plus, if you can get everythingthrough the one organization
(10:55):
and you have a project coming upand you really want to get
accredited right away, you mayopt for whichever organization
serves your purposes better.
So time and money obviously twobig factors.
Scope is another one and justpreferences, yeah.
(11:19):
So I think those are the mainreasons, okay.
Kim Swanson (11:24):
So this could be a pretty short episode.
I mean, there was not that muchwhen you said it's not that
short.
So, with everything in mind, isthere an easy way for customers
to figure this stuff out, or isit just getting the information
and doing the analysisthemselves?
Brian Johnson (11:41):
C-SERAL does have a price sheet on their website
that you can look at, whateverthe scope is.
But if you have specialquestions about out-of-sequence
fees, those would be best to askthem.
So contact them and say I wantmy assessment at this time of
year and I want to cover thesetests.
(12:03):
How much would this cost?
And they can give you anestimate that way.
Similarly, you can reach out toAshton Resource.
You can actually fill out arequest form online and it will
give you an estimate for thatscope of services and that's
based on like typical timeframes.
So it'll be pretty close.
Like I said, there's a littleuneasiness or uncertainty about
(12:28):
what that final result's gonnabe, but it's gonna be pretty
close to that estimate.
So you can get an estimatethere.
But same question about out ofsequence Okay, when are you
coming?
Do I have to pay extra for that?
And if you do both of thosethings, you can get a good
handle on what your totalexpenses are going to be and
then you can make a decision onwhich one you prefer.
Kim Swanson (12:49):
You can get AASHTO accreditation no matter who
performs your assessment.
So even if CCRL performs it foraggregate or rebar, you can
still get AASHTO accredited fromit and you will still have to
work with the AASHTO accreditedfrom it and you will still have
to work with the AASHTOaccreditation programs quality
analysts to resolve any of thenon-conformities found in either
one of your reports.
Brian Johnson (13:09):
So no matter who it is, the follow-up to it will
be the same, no matter whatthat's right, and those are the
only two assessment providersthat will give you AASHTO
accreditation at the end of theday, or will let lead to AASHTO
accreditation at the end of theday or will lead to AASHTO
accreditation.
Kim Swanson (13:22):
You don't have to get it from both groups right.
You don't need to double up andget assessment for aggregate or
rebar from both.
You can pick one and stick withthat, or pick one and then
switch, depending on the timingright.
Brian Johnson (13:40):
Depending on the timing, is the is the issue.
Okay, part yeah so, uh, theproblem we have is if, if you've
gotten an assessment throughone of the organizations and
then you want to switch to theother one, you can't skip a tour
yeah to to then get it like youcan't extend your time interval
.
(14:00):
Let's say that they were bothrunning smoothly at a 27 month
interval.
You can't get extra time byswitching.
You can't say okay, well, I'mgonna skip my normally scheduled
assessment because I know thenext one's coming the following
year and I want to drag this outlonger.
What would happen in that caseis you would end up losing
(14:23):
accreditation until the nextaccreditation body rolled
through.
So typically what people willdo when they transition is
they'll end up getting anoverlap for that one time that
they need to transition, andsometimes those are far apart
(14:43):
and sometimes they're close.
When it's far apart, you don'treally notice it.
You know, if it's kind of in themiddle of the of the sequence,
but if it's one after the other,uh, people are thinking they
have deja vu.
They're like I could have sworeI just did this.
You know, I don't remember, anduh, that it's probably good,
(15:05):
and, and it's really a smallscope, like in both of these
cases, we're talking about, uhwhat?
Five to to six agri tests andand and and rebar tensile and
bend for the overlapping scope,so it's not a whole lot.
Kim Swanson (15:21):
Recap it is you can shorten the interval for those
two scopes, but you cannotextend the interval for those
two scopes when you're trying.
If you are switching betweenassessment providers.
Brian Johnson (15:35):
That is correct.
Kim Swanson (15:36):
Okay, is there anything else that I don't know
to ask about this, because therecould be for sure, or did we
cover all the highlights here?
Brian Johnson (15:46):
I think we covered the highlights.
It's not overly complicated,but there just are some
considerations people have tohave in mind and I think most of
the time people have these inmind to begin with, at least on
their decision making and whatis important to them is
concerned, at least on theirdecision-making and what is
important to them is concerned.
But I think the only thingpeople get confused about is the
(16:06):
fact that they might have tooverlap the assessments before
they transition from one to theother.
Kim Swanson (16:11):
Well, thank you for addressing this common question
and before we go, I just wantto put in a plug.
It's this time of year again,as of the recording of this
episode that we are gearing upfor the 2025 AASHTO Resource
Technical Exchange.
It's happening March 17ththrough the 20th 2025, in
(16:32):
Bellevue, washington, so go toaashtoresourceorg slash events
for more details on that.
Brian Johnson (16:40):
Yeah, it should be a good time.
I was actually late for ourrecording today because I was in
a meeting about the technicalexchange where we were still
putting together the program andfiguring out who our guest
speakers are going to be.
We always have great panelistsand roundtables and it's truly
an interactive experience.
So if you haven't been to atechnical exchange especially if
(17:02):
you live on the West coast orin Hawaii or Alaska the one in
Bellevue, washington, is goingto be a lot easier for you to
attend than some of the otherones.
So hopefully people can checkit out and we get a lot of
attendees.
Kim Swanson (17:15):
All right.
Well, thanks again, Brian, foryour time today.
Brian Johnson (17:17):
Thanks again.
Kim Swanson (17:24):
Thanks for listening to AASHTO Resource Q&A
.
If you'd like to be a guest orjust submit a question, send us
an email at podcast ataashtoresourceorg, or call Brian
at 240-436-4820.
For other news and relatedcontent, check out AASHTO
Resources social media accountsor go to aashtoresourceorg.
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