ABA ADVISORY--Stop Tracking, Start Supervising: With Kamila Iacob and MentraTrack, Part II

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_03 (00:10):
Welcome to ABA on Tat, where our goal is to find
the best recipe to brew thesmoothest, coldest, and best
tasting ABA around.
I'm Dan Lowry with Mike Rubio,and join us on our journey as we
look back into the ingredientsto form the best concoction of
ABA on Tat.

(00:32):
In this podcast, we will talkabout the history of the ABA
brew, how much to consume toachieve the optimum buzz while
not getting too drunk, and therecommended pairings to bring to
the table.
So without further ado, sitback, relax, and always analyze
responsibly.

SPEAKER_02 (00:53):
Welcome back to yet another installment of ABA on
tap.
I am your ever grateful co-host,Mike Rubio, and this is part two
of our intriguing interview withCamila Jacob.
Enjoy.

SPEAKER_04 (01:10):
Hard, hard, hard.
Your initial experience is morelike academia clinic based,
right?
And then you said you went intothe home, but first you were at
clinic and then you went out.

SPEAKER_00 (01:18):
Yeah, so the first BT position that I did in the
Bay Area was clinic based, and Iwas so scared.
Sure.
Oh my gosh, we're we're at aclinic.
I'm brand new.
I don't know what I'm doing.
I have to study for this RBT.

SPEAKER_04 (01:29):
But at least the parents aren't there.

SPEAKER_00 (01:30):
So if you mess up, then Well, I thought that was so
odd.
I was like, the parents don'tcome and work with us because in
my mind, this is their child.
We should be working together asa team.
And they one of the BTs made acomment, I'm so glad the parent
is not here.
They're so hard to work with,right?
And I'm like, really?
You met them?
Well, they do drop offs, butthey constantly give me attitude

(01:51):
or something.
That's like a five-secondinteraction.
Also, anyone can have attitude,right?
So I did think that was odd, butthen they uh split my session.
So we would do some in-home andthen some in clinic.
Of course, I love the in-home.

SPEAKER_04 (02:04):
I'm like, so what was that like going from so you
started purely clinic and thenyou went in home?
What was that?

SPEAKER_00 (02:11):
I loved it.
Yeah, I did.
To me, I love community outings,I love school-based sessions.
I did some school, like when theBT was at the school and I would
have to go, and I don't have alot of experience, and I think
that's a completely differentconversation on you know how to
support staff and teachersbecause it's really hard.
Um but the way that I saw ABA iswe are in their environment,

(02:36):
right?
We are helping them and shapingtheir behaviors, and the parent
needs to be there, right?
Again, like you mentioned, we'rethere for such a short period of
time.
There's 24 hours in a day.
Um they they need to see what'shappening, they need to be
involved.
I'm not saying sit there next tome and hold my hand.

(03:00):
Um, but I I need you to observethe session.
I need the parent to understandwhat I'm doing.
I I liked explaining everythingI was doing.
And I had some parents that werelike, Are you done?
I'm gonna go to my room, right?
They were like, We we didn't dothis before.
No, so that was a hard yeah,that was a hard change for me as
a BT because then I'm like,Well, am I overstepping?

(03:20):
My BCB is not here, but I I havethese parent training goals I'm
supposed to run, right?
And I would go to the parent,knock on their door, hello, it's
can you come out and play withthis for five minutes?
That's how I was with startparent training sessions because
I don't know how else to askthem.
I was so new, and then they'relike, Okay, yeah, I guess we can
play.
And then, you know, can we bedone in like 10 minutes?

(03:42):
I'm like, okay, yeah, I thinkso.
We'll see how it goes.
And I like to be very naturalbass and really involve the
parent.

SPEAKER_06 (03:49):
Sure.

SPEAKER_00 (03:49):
So it was a shock at first, and then you know, you
have some parents that reallydon't like you in the home where
they just prefer the clinic umto drop off the child, and some
would voice that, and then somereally loved it.
Oh my gosh, I love having you inthe home.
It was just such a different umreaction I would get from each
parent.
Sure.

(04:10):
But I do think that made me avery strong BT at the time
because I was, I need to workwith this parent, right?
Because I would see certainbehaviors, then the parent would
come to me.
Do you think there's a betterway I could handle that?
I love that question.
Let's talk about it.
I'm not gonna say you didsomething wrong, but let's dive
into it.
What can we do, right?

(04:30):
What can we change?
Um, and I think coming back toparent training too, when a
parent is aware of their ownbehaviors, they have so much
more success with umimplementing certain
interventions or you know,parent training sessions,
whatever it might be, and thenunderstanding their child's
behavior.
And I think that's a lot of alot of clinicians forget that,

(04:50):
right?
It's like, oh, he has a tantrum,let's work on that.
So much more beyond that.
So much more.

SPEAKER_04 (04:57):
Did you find it challenging though?
So the clinic you've got theeverything's set up the way you
want in the home, there's somany more variables.
Maybe grandma comes in or theroom's not set up, or all they
want to do is be on the TV.
Did you find that challenging?
Any any thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 (05:10):
Oh, it was hard.
Um, one of the homes I went to,there was no toys, and I brought
toys, so then I was like, okay,maybe literally no toys.
It was a very odd case.
Um, they just didn't allow itbecause breaking toys throwing.
I'm like, but uh we should workon that, right?

(05:32):
And my clinician told me at thetime, we're trying really hard,
we're we're working on it, theclinic setting, but it's not
their home, they don't have toysin the home.
So the next time that theyencounter a toy, they're going
to break that toy, right?

SPEAKER_04 (05:45):
So many DRIs as opposed to uh DRAs and ABA, just
like eliminate the stimulus andthen yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (05:52):
This is my favorite story to share because at the
end of the year that child hadso many toys in their home.
It was really fun and it wasreally great to see like the
toys and honestly, just the playaspect of it changed so many
other behaviors on top of it,like naturally, too.
Um it just didn't have access totoys, and it was kind of
heartbreaking to be honest.

(06:13):
But um, the creativity part Iwould say was hard because the
clinic provided a lot of theresources and toys and
flashcards and all of thatstuff.
And then when you switch to ahome setting, even if you bring
those same toys, it didn'talways work.
Um, so then you have to getcreative, and that's why I had
to learn I need to figure outhow to make these pots fun

(06:33):
because the child enjoyedplaying with pots.
I'm like, we're gonna figurethis out together and we're
gonna get creative with this.
And there's a point wherethere's like pots on my head,
and I'm like, yeah, we're justgonna play with pots today.

SPEAKER_02 (06:47):
It that's uh one of my favorite examples, too,
because I think it's so easy tomisconstrue once you've got a
diagnosis, right?
So the idea that mythree-year-old is going through
all the kitchen cabinets,pulling out the pots and
clanging them together.
Oh, well, that's whatthree-year-olds do.
My three-year-old with autism isdoing that.
Now, this is a behavior problem.

(07:08):
I don't know if you'veencountered that kind of thing.
And it sounds like that's whatyou were referring to, right?
So, well, they're not supposedto be playing with those things.
You're right.
And then completely prohibitingthem from playing with those
things is only going to uhincrease the motivating
operation.
Nothing like prohibition to uhdon't do that.

(07:29):
Oh now you're gonna want to dothat more than anything.

SPEAKER_00 (07:32):
That's how I am, too.
Someone told me not to just I'mlike, I'm gonna keep thinking
about it because they told menot to think about it.
Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 (07:38):
Um and that's so hard sometimes, I think, too.
Uh that the whole deprivationsatiety to tell parents if you
lean into this a little bit, Ican't guarantee that it's gonna
happen tomorrow, but they'rethey might get sick and tired of
this.
But the more they want to seeit, they get a taste of it, and
then you take it away, you mightbe, you know, that may be a
self-defeating effort there.

SPEAKER_00 (07:59):
Yeah.
I think that speaks a lot toparent expectations too.
Like when I would do parenttraining, we talked about what
are your expectations when itcomes to completing homework
with them.
Homework is my favorite.
Okay, and then their firstanswer is well, I want them to
do it correctly, and I want themto do it correctly the first
time.
No mistakes, not allowed, can'ttake any breaks, they must

(08:20):
finish this before they go watchTV.
I'm like, Well, if you told meto do that, oh, I'm gonna have
behaviors.

SPEAKER_01 (08:28):
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (08:29):
And I would explain that to them.
This is a behavior that I wouldhave, and then they, well,
that's what he does.
I'm like, yes.

SPEAKER_01 (08:36):
I'm about to break my pencil, and it's not even my
homework.
I'm about to break it right now.
Yeah, drop it on the floor, alittle delay.

SPEAKER_00 (08:43):
Expectations, but then also what's normal, right?
Just a lot of parents have theseconversations, like you
mentioned, well, they're on thespectrum, so what they're doing
is not normal.
But then I have friends that arehave kids that don't are not on
the spectrum.
They're doing things that arefar way worse, right?
Or doing things that this parentwould say, Oh my gosh, that's
not normal, right?

(09:04):
But it's some things are justnormal and it's part of
childhood.

SPEAKER_02 (09:08):
Yeah, tangible behavior, crying behavior,
sibling rivalry, uh, you know,all of these things that are
completely normal behaviors.
And then, yes, you know, maybethe diagnostic traits add some
additional complication to that,environmentally speaking.
I get that.
Yeah, but I think that you'rehighlighting something very
important is that see the thenormal aspect of what's

(09:31):
happening before we jump to someconclusion that it's gonna be
forever or that by allowing itwe're reinforcing it, or that I
mean it really breaks down ouranalysis, and now we're just
doing you know traditionaldiscipline stuff, which parents
don't need us for.
They know how to do that stuffalready.

SPEAKER_04 (09:49):
Expectations for sure.
It's not the result, it's theviolation of an expectation,
right?
So go into the grocery store,right?
Maybe talk to parents aboutinstead of buying all of your
stuff with your kid, you're justgonna go and have your kid
experience being in the grocerystore and get two things, or
with homework, like breaking itdown of okay, what is the
spectrum of things that have tohappen?

(10:09):
Okay, they have to sit down,maybe pay a little bit of
attention, write some stuffdown, write it down correctly,
write it down correctly the wayyou want.
That's like the tenth step down.
Let's go back a little bit.
Maybe they just sit down anddraw on the paper.
I know that's not what you wantthem to do, but that's where
we're at.
And then maybe they can drawlike you know, something about
yeah, shape, shape that up.

SPEAKER_02 (10:29):
And that's and again, that goes against the
parents' better plan, you know,a lot of times.
So that just happened to me thispast week, that same situation,
um, where it was very clear inmy observation that uh decoding
and reading the instructions forthe worksheet was really
difficult.
And so the parent was insistentthat, well, if he doesn't do it,
then he's not gonna learn.
And I was like, mmm.

(10:50):
But if you force him to do it,then doing the rest of the
worksheet is probably gonna bethat much more difficult.
So how do you know how do youhow to reconcile with that?

SPEAKER_04 (10:59):
It's gonna start escalating, blood's gonna start
leaving his brain, and he's notgonna learn anyway.

SPEAKER_02 (11:02):
We're not learning anything, right?
So that little chaining.
I'm like, so these first twowords were really hard for him.
What if you had read those firsttwo and then he finishes?
What if you read the sentencefor him and then he repeats it
and then you read it again andthen he tries?
I mean, again, how do you getpast that hurdle?
And it goes back to thenparents, and I can I can relate
to that, you know, personally asa parent, the idea that I'm

(11:23):
doing something wrong.
Uh well, you're getting theundesired outcome.
What are you gonna dodifferently and then see how
that changes you know, the thechild's behavior?
And and that might not be yourlast stop.
You might have to try somethingelse.
And the idea is that when youget to the finished homework and
nobody, you know, threw atantrum, not parent or child, or

(11:46):
or the tantrum was short-lived,then that's when you'll know
that you know you can take yourdata point thing, that felt
pretty harmless and thehomework's done.
Let's try that again tomorrow.
And then accepting that tomorrowyou might be back to the
challenges that you justovercame.
So it's it's almost like thisperpetual dance, you know.

(12:07):
And and I think that's that'sdifficult for me to understand
as a parent, despite having abackground in ABA.

SPEAKER_00 (12:12):
I always say parenting is the hardest job in
the world.
I mean it's really, it reallyis.
It's a lot.
And I think I read one of the myfavorite quotes is it feels like
hard work because you're doingthe right thing, right?
Um, and then the other, I thinksomeone on the podcast said,
like, if you're constantlyquestioning things, or if you're

(12:35):
constantly thinking, or did I dothis right, or did I not do
that, or what should I do next?
Like, you're intentionallyfocusing on being a good parent,
which is extremely hard to do,right?
And that's what a lot of thefamilies that I worked with
would tell me that too.
This feels so unnatural.
I didn't know that I needed togo spend time with them because
we, I guess we never talkedabout it, or he he never told me

(12:59):
that.
And then the connectionhappened, and then the teenager
magically started following someof the directions, and the
parent is like, that's sointeresting.
I guess I would have neverthought about it that way,
right?
So again, it comes back toreport, pairing, connection.
Um, so it's yeah, all crucialparts of parenting.

SPEAKER_02 (13:17):
Giving those opportunities too, knowing that
we can overstep as parents andand always be there ensuring the
correct behavior happens, andthat doesn't always generalize.
You know, the idea that we um,and I'm sure you talk plenty
about this, and parents arelike, really?
You you've got allow thosefailures.
Without the failure, you're notgonna know what the correct
steps are.

(13:37):
So it's it's and the idea thatto generalize, you're gonna have
to sit there and watch sometimesand be like, are they gonna do
it?
Are they gonna do it?
Oh, I don't know.
Okay, they didn't do it.
And then the answer is, does theanswer now you go correct them?
No, the answer sometimes youjust take care of it yourself
and you wait for the nextopportunity.
I think in ABA we've gotten veryused to, um, and again, it's
because of our uh very thoroughstructure, but the idea that

(14:01):
we're gonna make the desiredbehavior happen every time, even
if we have to physically promptit.
That causes trouble.
I don't know if you've got anyinsight on that because it's not
incorrect to provide thatprompt, but you can certainly go
too far.
And I think that historicallymaybe we've gotten a little too
far on some of those things.
And again, we want the rightbehavior, the the desired

(14:21):
behavior to happen so we canreinforce it because then it
happens ten times and voila,then it sticks, right?
And it generalizes it, butthat's not true.
It's it's much more gradual andrigorous.
I don't know if you want to giveany insight to that.

SPEAKER_00 (14:33):
One example I have is with my daughter.
I learned that sometimes she'svery stubborn, normal, right?
Sure.

SPEAKER_04 (14:43):
Um gets it from her dad, of course, right?

SPEAKER_02 (14:47):
Um today on ABA on tap, stubborn 17 month olds.

SPEAKER_00 (14:54):
I remember I would say that to families I would
work with, and at the time shewas much younger, they're like,
Oh, you you can like do likechild development and playing
with them at that they're soyoung.
What can you do?
I'm like, there's so much, and Ienjoy it.
I love it.
It's so fun, like seeing hersmile and laugh.
Um, but she also wants to bevery independent.

(15:16):
There's certain things she wantsto do, some are not safe, like
certain things that she wants toclimb, and some like with toys,
and she tries really hard untilshe gets it and she gets
frustrated, which is a normalresponse.
I learn sometimes that I do lether just do it and she's able to
do it.
And then sometimes she's not,and she comes to me and I can
tell that she wants help, right?

(15:37):
And so then I model it, I lether know, oh, it looks like you
need some help.
Okay, mom will help you, right?
And I think about situations toowith clients when I was a B
tier, when I was a BCVsupervising, you know, BTs is
certain moments I would tellBTs, I don't think we need to
jump in quite yet, right?
They can do it, they're notfrustrated.

(15:59):
It's I think it's more harmfulif we jump in.
Like when I truly see the clientfocusing on something, they they
might growl a little bit oflike, oh but that's such a
normal response, right?
Because I have seen a BT jump inand overhand prompting, it
stopped the whole process, andthe child is frustrated, or even
children that are vocal that Ilove where they're like, Why did

(16:21):
you do that?
Right?
They they have that right to saythat.

SPEAKER_04 (16:24):
Sure, yeah, because there's like a continuum on one
end you have quickness, on theother end, you have
independence.
And so often BTs and parents areon that quickness side.
We're late.
Let's go, let's go, let's go.
And we don't let people beindependent.
You got to run that next trial.
What do you mean?

SPEAKER_02 (16:36):
There's no Trick.
That was she just rolled hereyes at me.
I don't know if you saw that.
Did you see that?
See where it thought it gets.
Now we know where that clientgot it from.
Unbelievable.

unknown (16:52):
Unbelievable.

SPEAKER_02 (16:53):
No, it is so many little things.
And again, as we talk aboutthis, I understand why we do it.
It's such good intent.
And then what you're talkingabout is good intent really
falls short here because we'renot allowing for the
independence.
Um maybe we'll quiz you as a momhere.
So so your daughter's doing theinset puzzle and just not quite

(17:17):
getting it in there, and shegoes, ah, she throws the piece.
That's clearly a big problembehavior, right?
Or you're saying no, you canleave that alone.

SPEAKER_00 (17:26):
She's frustrated.
She throws a lot, you guys.
She throws everything right now.
I'm like trying to figure outthe best bottle to give her
because she drinks out of astainless steel bottle, and she
chucked that at me so hard, andI got a bruise, and I had to be
like, I can't react.
She wasn't even throwing it atme.
It just landed on my foot.

SPEAKER_04 (17:44):
She gave her a football or a baseball or
something.
Then she gave me a bigger one.

SPEAKER_00 (17:46):
She really loves throwing right now.
There you go.
Um, yeah, we have a lot of ballsthat we throw.
There you go.
Golf balls.
She has like a little golf umgolf mini pink set that she
plays with, and she doesn't usethe actual club.

SPEAKER_02 (17:57):
She, you know, just throws the ball away from the
TV.
Thrown out of frustration aswell as just exploration.
Yeah, I think that's a goodthing.
I think that's good to mention.

SPEAKER_00 (18:06):
I think so too, absolutely, because I I know
she's not gonna throw forever,right?
So the puzzle actually hashappened many times where she
not she hasn't even tried ityet.
She's like, don't like this one,don't like that one.
Nope, not interning that one.
And then she's like, Oh, I likethat one.
I'm gonna put this one in.
Um, so there's times where, youknow, I have asked her to pick
it up where she continuouslythrow it, but we make it like a

(18:28):
fun game of like, oh no, the cowfell by the cup.
We must save it.
So I go and we save the puzzle,right?
The cow puzzle.
And then she goes and gets it,and she's so excited, and I'm
like, okay, let's see if we canfind where we can put the puzzle
back, right?
And then she's looking, and Ilove the scanning.
It's like the best thing to seeas a mom.
I'm like, she's really scanning,it's so sweet.

(18:50):
And she's looking for it, andthen sometimes she'll, you know,
put it in the right place, andthen sometimes she's like, I
lost attention.
She's so young.
She's like, What's next?

SPEAKER_06 (18:57):
Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 (18:58):
But there's moments where I'm sitting with her and
I'm playing.
She does throw, she's just likea quick throw, and it's not
harmful in the moment.
And I think some parents forgetthat, where they're like, My
child must not do this behavior,where sometimes it's just not
harmful, and like you mentioned,it is normal too.

SPEAKER_02 (19:13):
So the idea that you you see that happen, and maybe
you peer over and she's secure,nothing's gonna harm her, she's
not gonna break anything.
You may not say anything then.
Yeah, and that's so difficult,right?
I mean, I know as a parent, mymy daughter's doing great.
She does one little grunt andwhat's wrong?
What's going on?

(19:33):
Now I'm paying attention, now Ineed to fix it, you know,
whatever it is.
And it's back to that, that justthat stimulus, the idea that
that sound, I am hardwired tosee it as distress.
I clearly have to go savesomething.
And I think that happens to allparents.
And then ABA says, Well, wait aminute, what's the function
here?
Developmentally, is it okay fora child to get frustrated that

(19:54):
they're putting things in andthen they can't do it?
Somewhere in there is amotivating operation to try
again, right?
That's what the energy is.
We say that with sportsmanship alot of times, right?
Like this force, well, go saygood game.
And well, somewhere in that poorsportsmanship, it's a really
strong competitive drive.
And just teaching them to saygood game isn't gonna fix the.

(20:15):
But how do we harness that?
And I think that's what you'retalking about.
These are very normal behaviors,personality, normal emotion,
temperament, whatever we want tocall it.
And a lot of times, especially Ithink once we've got a
diagnostic in place, we startcorrecting those things.
That's a hard, maybe that's awhole other episode, but how to
distinguish between thosebehaviors or how to what how do

(20:36):
you what do you tell a parentabout that?
Like ignore that one.
Oh, you better pay attention tothat one.

SPEAKER_00 (20:41):
That's a hard dance.
Like a whole textbook.
It's hard.
It's very better get started.
Yeah.
That's your next project.
Perfect.
I'll be here.

SPEAKER_04 (20:49):
So your first project, you said you kind of
really got interested in parenttraining, and then you created a
curriculum.
How did the where'd that comefrom?
How'd you create the parenttraining curriculum?
What take us back to then.

SPEAKER_00 (21:01):
So PowerPoints loved it.
I learned that when I waspresenting with a PowerPoint in
person, parents were moreattentive.
So I'm like, okay.
I'm like, they like the visuals,great, they like the examples.
Sometimes I would add like alittle action on the PowerPoint
slide.

SPEAKER_04 (21:17):
Oh, get this animation.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (21:19):
Yeah.
Um, so then what I started doingis like the basic knowledge of
ABA, explaining basic terms,right?
And letting them know I knowthis is a bunch of technical
jargon.
Ignore that part and just tryingto explain to you this part, but
we're gonna go over it in arealistic way.
We're gonna do some realexamples, right?
Um, and then explaining theprocess of what that parent

(21:40):
training session would look likemoving forward.
And I talk a lot aboutexpectations from me as a
clinician, right?
And what I'm looking for fromparent training and letting them
know this relationship is soimportant to me and crucial.
So if you don't like something,you're not satisfied with an
intervention, I want us tocommunicate and I want us to be

(22:01):
respectful and professional,right?
And then I talk about all theseother policies when it comes to,
you know, being disrespectful,harassment, all that stuff.
Because you have to nowadays.
Um, I've had BTs that wereharassed for no reason, right?
Or I had parents yell at me,cuss at me.
I had parents that were like, Inever want to do ABA ever again,
right?
Sure.
Um, and it's just a lot ofmisinformation that were

(22:22):
happening between the BT or viceversa.
So with the PowerPoint slide, Istarted off with what is the
first thing that parents need toknow, right?
So I would start there at thevisuals, then I slowly go into
the more detail, then I go overthe programs that they're
actually doing because it's alot on a report.
It's so hard for a parent toread that.

(22:44):
And I've had parents tell methat like this is a lot.
It's like 30, 60 pages, and youexpect me to review that.
And I constantly would go in andask, Do you have any questions?
Let's review it together.
And someone sometimes would takeme so long.
Um, and then I figured out abetter way, PowerPoints.
So it was just like Yeah, it wasI had way more success with it.

(23:05):
And parents, again, were just somuch more attentive.
And then I would have homeworkassignments for them and I would
say I know, and I would tellthat's the parent.
I know, I know it might mustfeel like you're in school
again, but I have homework, theBTs have homework.
You as a parent have homeworktoo, because we have to do this
outside of the session.
It's extremely important.
And I was very honest, you know,if we're only doing the work

(23:28):
here in a two to three hoursession and you're not able to
do it outside of session, we'regoing to see very little
success, right?
We might have the stimuluscontrol of like when the BT
comes in and behaviors perfect,right?
But then when that BT leaves,what happens?
Right.
So a lot of honestconversations.
I would let parents know if youdon't like my PowerPoint slides

(23:51):
and you want me to do it in adifferent way, I'm more than
happy to do it.
And most of them said, I'm okaywith PowerPoints because
sometimes they just say that,right?
They don't want to make you feeluncomfortable.
And then I had one parent say,like, Do I have to watch the
PowerPoint slides?
And I'm like, You don't have to.
What you what do you want tochange it to?
Whatever you'd like.
She's like, I just want to sitface to face and have a

(24:11):
conversation.
And I said, That's perfect.
If that's what you want, that'sokay.
So I had some parents that, youknow, didn't want the PowerPoint
slides, which is okay.
Right.
And when I did the parentingspecialty job, I had parents
where I was sharing PowerPointslides, we're going through
examples.
And then some parents were, it'sa 45-minute session.
So it goes by very quick.
Sure.
It's once a week, every week.

(24:33):
And sometimes we just talk for45 minutes back and forth, back
and forth, going over examplesand interventions and
understanding behavior.
So that was really successfulfor me because then I had a
clear outline of what I can dowhen I have a parent training
session, right?
That's one thing I hated is nothaving a clear system and an
organized system.

SPEAKER_06 (24:54):
Sure.

SPEAKER_00 (24:55):
And that's what helped me.
And then I would share thosePowerPoint slides with my
trainees, and then they wereable to modify it to their
clients as well.
And then I figured out about theRuby curriculum when I was in
Washington.

SPEAKER_04 (25:06):
Can you talk to that?

SPEAKER_00 (25:08):
Yeah.
So the Ruby curriculum was sointeresting because the first
time I opened the book, I'mlike, oh, this is so much better
than my PowerPoint slides.
I'm like, wait, okay, so this iswhat I do, but this is so much
more detailed because I had thehomework assignments already
included in there.
And then they had reflectionquestions for parents, which

(25:28):
that's something I didn't dowith all parents, which
something I learned is reallyimportant as well.
So they had basically chaptersthat you go through.
Now you can skip some chapters,um, depending on the parent.
Like there's a chapter on ACdevices.
Um, so you wouldn't run that ifthe client is not using an AC
device.
Um, and you would go in, I readthe book like three times to

(25:52):
make sure I really understoodit.
I would go in, I'm like, okay,I'm gonna test this out.
PowerPoint slides were stillhelpful at that time because
it's a book.
And then the parent has aworkbook that they have on their
side.
So they have the explanations ofeverything that we have
reviewed, and then they havequizzes and homework assignments
as well.
So with parents, what I would dois every week we would go

(26:12):
through each chapter.
Some chapters took two sessionsbecause they were longer.
Um, and we would just go throughexamples, have a really big
conversation, how it applies totheir child and the programming.
And then I would walk themthrough the homework assignment.

SPEAKER_06 (26:26):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (26:26):
Now you can imagine there's a barrier of will they
complete the homeworkassignment, right?
With any, whether it'sPowerPoint slides, it doesn't
matter, anything, right?
So then I gave, I would have aconversation with parents of
what is realistic for you?
What is achievable for you tocomplete?
You're busy, you're a workingparent, right?
And even if you're not a workingparent, you have other children

(26:47):
to take care of for and you'redoing all of these other tasks
around the house, right?
It's hard for a parent to belike, let me grab this piece of
paper and write down what I justobserved or whatever the
homework assignment might be.
So we would figure out a planand try to stick to it.
And if they couldn't, we figureout the barriers and then we
talk about the barriers, andit's a whole different parent
training session.

(27:08):
Then we talk about how can weovercome those barriers, right?
So I love the Ruby curriculum.
I mean, it's been a while sinceI used it because I've been off
work for gosh, has it been twoyears?
No, yeah and a half, maybe?

SPEAKER_02 (27:21):
Well, you're developing the alternative too.
They're gonna becomecompetitors, strictly
competitors, right?
So we'll get to that.
It's okay.

SPEAKER_00 (27:29):
Um, so yeah, the Ruby curriculum was great.
And then I would train mytrainees on it.
And they I will be honest, theyfound it a little bit
intimidating because they feltlike they had to follow this
specific curriculum.
And I let them know it's thereto support you as a resource if
you truly don't know where tostart.
Because it the I think the firstchapter is ABC data.

(27:49):
It talks about interstate inbehavior consequence, it talks
about behavior.
What is observable, what's whatis measurable?
It has a little table forparents.
Um, so for some trainees, it wasextremely helpful.
And I I loved it.
I don't know if you guys used itbefore.

SPEAKER_02 (28:02):
I am not familiar with that.

SPEAKER_00 (28:03):
I will bring the book.
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (28:05):
We're really happy to learn about it for sure.
Absolutely.
Yeah, we created our own, butyeah, I would definitely be
interested to have that.
That sounds that sounds awesome.
Um so you went from trainingparents to both training parents
and staff.
So we had an episode called RBTPerson or a Service.
I can explain more, but before Ido, do you have any thoughts on

(28:26):
that?
What is the RBT?
Is the RBT a person or aservice?

SPEAKER_00 (28:30):
That's a great question.
I would say both.
It can't be one.

SPEAKER_04 (28:36):
What do you why why would you say that?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (28:38):
Well, they're providing the service, but
they're also a person, right?
Providing the service?
Such a question.

SPEAKER_02 (28:46):
No, so I think it, I mean, where it comes from is um
if uh you know, once you startproviding medical services,
running an agency, there's a lotof pressures outside clinical
quality and service quality thatcome in.
Um so one thing that comes inwould be uh subs for sessions.

(29:07):
The idea that um it makes a lotof sense for generalization and
otherwise, that if an RBTassigned to a case gets sick and
somebody's available to go runtheir session, they can do that.
Uh, when we first got started,that was one of the excuses for
having such a structuredapproach, is so that it could be
replicated, but you know thatthere's variations from person

(29:29):
to person anyway.
So that's kind of where thatcomes from, is this idea that
and I think we agree with you.
The RBT provides a service, andthen maybe in your opinion, what
do you think of in terms of thehumanity of the RBT or the
importance of their consistentpresence in a case toward
outcomes?
Or do you think it's as easy asinterchangeability?

(29:50):
Because it goes both ways,right?
I mean, it would be great tohave such a structured approach
and such well trained RBTs thatanybody could pop in there and
do the work, and then I wastalking about.
Having PT myself, you know, if Iget a call and it's like, hey,
your PT's out today, do you wantto do a session with this one?
I'll wait till next week.
I'm good.
I'm sure that person's great.
And I'm sure they're going toteach me something different.

(30:11):
But there's a rapport.
There's that dirty R-word again.
There's a rapport I've got withmy PT, and I'm going to wait
because I'm just familiar and itfeels better.
And I'm that's a hard questionfor us as service providers.
You want the consistency, youwant to give the client that
consistency.
And at the same time, throwingsomebody that's different to
them might end up just a rapportbuilding session, which is fine.

(30:35):
But then that means that youknow you can't quantify the data
for that day, perhaps.
I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 (30:41):
Because I came from a um our the first company we
worked at, uh, one of the theheads out when we were talking,
because I was the trainer atthat company.
And I remember she said the RBTisn't a person, it's a service.
It should be interchangeable,meaning anybody should be able
to go out there and and run it.
And I think they kind of lookedat RBTs as interchangeable,
which I think a lot of companieskind of do, to be honest with

(31:01):
you.
Um look at it as just, well,they leave them, we'll put
another one in and another onein.
So they kind of had that idea ofit's not the person that's the
RBT, it's the service aroundwhat they can deliver is the
RBT.
First, another way to look at itis then RBT is that person, and
there's values of that specificperson and that consistency.

(31:22):
So I was just curious yourthoughts of do you do you think
it's more of the service of likeanybody should be able to go out
and run it, or do you think it'smore valuable of that rapport of
that one particular person?
Any thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 (31:33):
That's such a good question.
I've never been asked thisbefore.
So thank you.
I love that.
So when I think of an RBT,right, first of all, they're the
frontliners, right?
They're doing the hard work.
Yes, the BCBAs are doing thehard work too, but they are with
the child directly, right?
Every day.
They are the ones with theparents.

(31:54):
When I think of an RBT, I thinkof they're part of the team,
right?
With the parent, caregivers,grandparents, aunties, uncles,
teachers, speech therapists, theBCBA.
So this is gonna sound so bad,but there were situations where
I preferred a certain BT not tocome in if the other BT was out.
And it was not the best, I wouldsay, in terms of, you know, we

(32:19):
need to run those sessions,right?
They have the hours for it.
But I knew the client and I knewthe parent, right?
It the session would have beenworse with the other BT.
Not that that BT was notexperienced.
This was such a complex case,and I think there's a lot of
these complex cases that canhappen.
I think, like you mentioned,yes, if another BT is subbing

(32:42):
the session, they are focusingmostly on just building report
for that session, right?
And sometimes parents getfrustrated about that.

SPEAKER_02 (32:50):
They're not doing anything, they're not doing
anything or the child hadbehavior, forget that RBT,
they're no good.

SPEAKER_00 (32:56):
And then they're not giving that RBT a chance either.
And it could have ended up beinga great RBT, right?
Good point, good point.
So I just think it depends oncase by cases, but I don't think
you can replace that BT on thecase, if that's what you're
asking, because it's a veryspecial situation.
That BT has worked so hard tobuild rapport with the client

(33:18):
and then the parents, and that'sso special and crucial to have a
good team on the case, right?
So then again, when you havethose situations when another BT
comes in and they're justbuilding rapport, I've had
parents that were frustrated,like, oh, I feel like we just
went back like 10 steps becausefor a whole week they were just
building rapport.
And I understand where they werecoming from, right?

(33:40):
I was lucky that they were opento a subsession, and then you
have some families that arelike, uh-uh, I know my child, my
child's gonna give a hard timeto that BT.
It's and then you have BTs aresaying, Well, they need to get
used to new people too.

SPEAKER_04 (33:54):
Which there's truth to that, right?
I understand it's gonna be inthat child's life.
Yeah, that it's tricky, right?
Yeah, because there should be alevel of generality, otherwise,
we're not designing ourselvesout.
But on the flip side, it is aperson at the end of the day.
Yeah, so it's true.
I mean, like a phlebotomist,right?
Like if you're getting blooddrawn, like it probably doesn't

(34:14):
matter too much.
Like I've when I was goingthrough all my surgeries and
stuff, you'd have variouspeople, doesn't matter too much.

SPEAKER_00 (34:20):
But a therapist, like I was gonna say therapist.

SPEAKER_04 (34:23):
A therapist, like you probably wouldn't want to
hear, like, oh, I've had thelast 40 sessions with Susan, uh,
Johnny will cover.
It's like, no, I'll just waittill Susan comes back.
So we're somewhere, an RBT issomewhere in that spectrum.
Um, and they're it's when we geta authorization, right?
It's not like Magellan gives us50 hours with Johnny RBT, they

(34:43):
give us 50 hours of 97153 thatcan be allocated to any RBT.
Um and it's I I think it justposes an interesting quandary
because the generalization isimportant, but then on the flip
side, sometimes it seems likecompanies utilize that to make
it a revolving door for parents,which the rapport's never fully
built, and then the ABA sessionsaren't successful, and then it

(35:05):
reflects poorly on actually thefield of ABA because the parents
aren't gonna be like, oh,Johnny's company isn't good,
they're gonna say ABA doesn'twork.

SPEAKER_05 (35:13):
Yep.

SPEAKER_02 (35:13):
Yep.
I think we just uh answered ourown question there.
It's why people don't they justsay take the sub, right?
Can you imagine having toconsider all these
circumstances?
And waiting, that family andwe've done a little bit of that
in the past.
So you know what, that family'snot gonna take a sub.
Uh that family will take a sub.
Uh, hey, let me know if there'sgonna be a sub because if I

(35:33):
happen to be available, I can gosupport that sub.
Um, you you mentioned a lot of,I think the, in my opinion, the
correct answer is the idea thatyou're gonna take a family by
family, client by client.
The the notion that you mighthave sat with that family at the
beginning of services or beforethat sub is out and saying, Hey,
I'd like to try a sub.
Guess what?
This session might be adisaster.

(35:55):
So let me prepare you for that.
But in that disaster that you'regonna be observing, these are
the key points that we're gonnabe pulling out of there, right?
The idea that uh now somebodycan like if I send a good RBT in
there, they're nice experiencedone, they're gonna be able to
teach you a different strategyor technique for de-escalation
or how to deal with the refusalor all those things, um, which

(36:18):
again could be valuable, butwould take so much time to it's
also hard for the clinician toprep that sub.

SPEAKER_00 (36:25):
Sometimes it happens the same day.
And then I remember when I wouldget a scheduling um notification
like, oh, this BT is gonna goand fill in.
No, that BT cannot go in thatlike I that it needs a lot of
prep work discussing that clientwith the BT.
And then that BT comes inunprepared for that session.
It's so unfair.

SPEAKER_04 (36:44):
And the prep work is probably gonna be unpaid for a
lot of companies now because youonly get paid the direct time.

SPEAKER_00 (36:49):
But it's illegal in California.

SPEAKER_04 (36:51):
Every minute must be paid when it's tied to correct,
correct, for sure.
Uh a hundred percent.
It's not gonna be reimbursed bythe funding storage.
So the companies even have to.
Which a lot of companies are notgonna eat that.

SPEAKER_02 (37:03):
Uh and we're talking about making an effort to
replicate, right?
Which is yes, it makes sensethat somebody goes in
well-versed, and then on theother end, it could be look, you
are our uh you know, sub, you'reour substitute for the company.
The notion that we might be ableto train an RBT to get used to
just going in cold to thosesituations, having prepared the
family to say, look, they'rejust gonna get there just gonna

(37:26):
be a new person in theenvironment that's gonna try to
engage.
That's it.
And yes, this session, we admit,might look really different, but
it's necessary in terms offuture subs toward consistency.
If there's a staff change, wecan't guarantee that this
person's gonna be here forever.
And again, as I say this, somuch to plan to make it

(37:47):
successful, but maybe it's worthit.
We'll talk about it in the nearfuture.

SPEAKER_06 (37:50):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (37:51):
So that that was like your your history and kind
of how you got here.
So talk to us about your newcompany.
Yeah, talk to us about kind ofwhere you're at now, what your
goals are, what your company'sgonna look like.

SPEAKER_02 (38:01):
Yeah, you're gonna be re-released into the ABA Wild
soon.
What's the you know, what's theplan here?

SPEAKER_00 (38:07):
It's it's exciting, it happened all so fast.
Okay, talk to us.
But it really validated thatwe're solving a pain point,
which I knew that we were.
It's just our field is so niche,and it's a small field, but it's
also a really big field, right?
It's hard to explain to peoplethat are not in the field.
So I told my husband, I'mpassionate about parent

(38:28):
training, I'm passionate aboutsupervision.
I want to create a software.
I know that you can do it.
You're extremely he runs a wholeengineering department, he's the
smartest person I've met,honestly.
And I knew that he could do it.
Um, and he told me, okay, designthis, tell me what you want, and
what are you looking to solve,right?
That's important to him tounderstand what is how is this

(38:50):
software going to help people,trainees, organizations, and
VCBAs.
And we had a lot ofconversations, nights, her nap
times on weekends.
We were talking about it,designing it together.
And then it was time for him tocode, and he got to work.
Okay, created the software.

(39:11):
Our first version was veryinteresting.
It was just for tracking hours,and I looked and I said, I don't
want to be another tracker.
There are other trackers thatexist, right?
Um, Ripley was a great option tocome out because it was um
transitioning people fromspreadsheets and it was the
first digital platform tosupport ABA fieldwork.

(39:32):
I don't want to be anothertracker.
There's one that already exists,right?
So I told him I want it to bemore than that.
I want the whole fieldworkexperience to feel supported for
both trainees and BCBAs.
I also want organizations tohave this system because they
will need to scale as theirorganization grows, right?

(39:52):
I don't want the trainees or thesupervisors to pay for it if
they're part of an organization.
And we know the organization canhelp support that, right?
Especially if that's somethingthat they care about, which
we're piloting withorganizations.
It's really exciting.
Some are really big and some aresmall.
Um, it's scary at first of like,oh my gosh, this is all
happening.
There's contracts going on andlegal documents, and it we're

(40:16):
going all in.
And for them to come back andsay, we've been looking for
something for fieldworkdepartment, which makes me so
happy to hear that they have adedicated department for field
work and supporting theirtrainees.
And these are the biggerorganizations.
So they they want to do that fortheir employees, which is great.
They don't want their traineesto feel left out, they want them

(40:38):
to feel supported and reallyfocus on the mentorship aspect.
So when I told my husband, Idon't want to be a tracker, I
want to be something more.
It started out as a trackerwhere the trainees can um
collect their fieldwork hoursand put the data, right?
And then we had a supervisordashboard.
So we have three dashboards.
We have the trainee dashboard,the supervisor dashboard, and

(40:59):
then we have the organizationdashboard.
And that's been the mostexciting part is to provide
organizations full visibilityand knowing where is each
trainee with their hours, howmuch supervision is that BCB
providing?
Are they actually providingquality supervision?
Are they providing goals?

SPEAKER_04 (41:18):
How do you uh test if they're actually providing
quality supervision?

SPEAKER_00 (41:21):
So that's a hard one, right?
And that's something that I wantto figure out.
Okay.
So we have a lot ofconversations with my husband
because I want, I tell him, Iwant to be able to change how we
provide supervision in terms ofquality supervision because it's
it's not good right now in thefield.
And I've seen it, right?
I've seen as a clinicaldirector, I've seen it when I

(41:42):
was in Washington, and no oneknows, right?
Like my supervisor's boss didn'tknow what he was doing, or vice
versa.
And it was really hard anddifficult to know like I'm not
receiving the qualitysupervision that I know I need
to be.

SPEAKER_04 (41:56):
Sure.
So the trainees not gonna knowthe person delivering it, of
course, they're gonna thinkthey're giving qualities.

SPEAKER_00 (42:02):
Yeah, yeah.
So we're gonna work towards itreally hard.
I'm really focusing on goals andfeedback.
And we were the first platformto integrate AI into ABA field
work.
So that was really exciting forour users.
Um, we launched our open beta inMarch.
So we're still in open betabecause it's free right now.

(42:22):
Anyone can use it.

SPEAKER_04 (42:24):
We might talk to you about that with our company.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (42:26):
Yeah.
And we really wanted to focuson, I want to build the best
platform to support both sidesof supervision.
Um, and a lot of our users arelike, when are you gonna start
charging?
Like, just tell us, I want toknow the price.
And then we have organizationsthat are like, we want this like
later on, whatever you need todo, just tell us.
I'm like, okay, great.
They love our platform, which isgood.

(42:46):
Um, but there's so much thatwe've added.
And one of the first AI featuresthat we added is AI goal
generation from BCBAs on thesupervisor dashboard.
And what we focused on is when Iwas a clinical director, if I
have a newer BCBA who hasdifficulty writing a goal for a

(43:07):
client, they're going to have adifficult time writing a goal
for a trainee.

SPEAKER_06 (43:11):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (43:11):
And I saw that it was so helpful for trainees to
have a written goal for them tounderstand what they need to do
in terms of examples andspecific objective data.
We follow SMART um criteriaalignment in our AI goal
generation.
So it doesn't replace clinicaljudgment, right?
When the supervisor goes in andgenerates the goal, they need to

(43:34):
write the level for thattrainee.
So um, like let's say they'rebeginner, intermediate, or
advanced, the time frame of howlong that goal would take.
And then they need to input theprimary focus area and then any
supervision support that theymay need to add.

SPEAKER_06 (43:49):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (43:49):
So let's say the primary focus area is parent
training.
Sure.
Right?
You can be short, but we knowthat with AI, the better prompt
that you give and the moreinformation that you provide, AI
will work better with you,right?

SPEAKER_06 (44:01):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (44:02):
But we designed it so that it does support
clinicians who have a hard timeof like they're staring at a
Word document.
What, how can I write this goalfor this training?
It could be a soft skill, itcould be time management, right?
Okay.
It could be professionalism,whatever it might be.
Um, so but let's say it's parenttraining.
They can put parent training andthen our AI will generate two

(44:22):
goals.
And you look at those two goals,it's very descriptive.
Um, it has the description,measurement criteria, supporting
resources.
The clinician can upload theirown resources as well.
So that's where I mean I want toprovide more features to support
on how we can really view andprove that they're providing
quality supervision, right?

(44:44):
Because you could just write agoal.

SPEAKER_04 (44:45):
Well, that was my question.
Yeah.
I mean, I would see this withBCBAs or school IPs, right?
They'd be like, Johnny strugglesself-advocating.
So we're gonna write a goal.
Johnny will self-advocate on80%.
It's like, well, without anyprocedure behind it, like just
because you write a goal doesn'tmean anything.
Just because the the potentialBCBA is late all the time.
If I write a goal about it,doesn't mean they're gonna stop
being late.
So do you have some supports inaddition to like help on the

(45:09):
back end uh people fulfill thosegoals?

SPEAKER_00 (45:11):
Yeah, so right now we don't have those specific
features.
I've designed a few ideas forhim.
It's it's a lot.
I have a lot of big ideas, but Iwonder if there's a way for AI
to pick up on trainees' progresswith those goals and really show
that are they truly working onthat goal?
But most importantly, is thatgoal actually helping them,
right?
Is it actually supporting themas a trainee to become a

(45:34):
competent clinician in thefuture, right?
And I think AI can get reallycreative and tricky.
He has a lot of experience withmachine learning, so he would be
a better person to ask thesequestions.
It is it's really exciting.
Um there's a lot you can do withAI, but again, like how do we
support in a way where it'sfast, but also doesn't replace
clinical judgment, right?

SPEAKER_06 (45:55):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (45:55):
So with the goals, again, it connects to smart
criteria alignment, and you'llsee it when I give you a little
demo, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_06 (46:02):
Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 (46:03):
You'll see how it aligns to each criteria, and
then it also provides like arationale of why this goal is
important for the trainee, um,which I think is helpful for
some clinicians to know of like,well, why are you providing that
goal, right?
Um is this what you actuallywanted?

SPEAKER_02 (46:18):
I wonder if time of engagement on the system, as
well as like edits done to thewhat AI generates, might be a
way to measure that, right?
So the idea that you can atleast quantify that they're
spending time on it and they'renot just replicating what gets
spit out from the machine.
I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 (46:34):
That's interesting because our feature, after the
goal is generated, there arethree sections there.
You can click on improve howspecific it is.
That's improve measurability.

SPEAKER_06 (46:43):
That's probably a good route.

SPEAKER_00 (46:44):
And then the last one is improve uh overall
refinement.

SPEAKER_06 (46:47):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (46:48):
So when I was testing it, I was refining it
like 10 times.
I'm like, is this just gonnakeep getting longer?
Are you actually gonna be goodat providing me the best goal
for this trainee?
And it does get more detail, itprovides more examples, which
can be helpful for trainees.
Like if it's a parent traininggoal, specific examples of when
a parent ignores your question,or when a parent constantly

(47:10):
jumps off topic, these are thethings that you can say to
redirect them back to theconversation, right?
So very specific examples theretoo.
This is version one.
Like when I designed it, therewas at least five versions.
So it was a lot and exciting.
I'm like, I want all theversions released now, but it's
it's hard work developing asoftware.
It's I will be honest, it's morethan I expected, but it's been

(47:33):
so amazing to learn.
And I've never imagined myselfand developing a software, but
it just felt right with myhusband, and it's been an
amazing experience.
And the second aspect that wehave for AI is the test content
outline.
So oh, for the BCBA test.
Yep.
We don't want to replace studyprep.

(47:54):
That's not where I wanted to go.
And our users know that theylove it, they use it multiple
times a day.
It's really nice to see thedata.
But um the reason why AI isinvolved is it generates a new
set of questions every singletime to really give the trainee
a new set of questions and topractice.
And it gives a domain breakdownof like, oh, you did great in

(48:16):
section B.
Um, this section you need toimprove on, continue practicing
in this section.
Um, it's a very heavy scenariobased and it has different
difficulty levels that they canchoose from.
So there's beginner,intermediate, there's expert
level.
My husband was excited to addthat, and he was like, Camilla,
you need to test this one.
And I was getting like PTSD frommy board exam.

(48:37):
I'm like, oh, this is a lot.
I'm not trying to take anotherboard exam.
But I would say one of the best,you know, features that we have
that's all connected.
So supervisors have fullvisibility into everything that
the trainee has on the traineedashboard.
Okay.
We also have automatic formgeneration.
So for those monthly forms,final forms, everything is

(49:01):
generated in the dashboard andit syncs to the supervisor
dashboard.
Oh, cool.
Signing takes less than asecond.
We're heavily focused oncompliance checks for each
requirement.
We were the first ones to rollout for the 2027 requirements,
which I was so passionate aboutbecause the BCB was not giving
me a clear answer on some of therequirements.

(49:21):
Um, and then they finallyreleased the 2027 newsletter of
the transition guide, right?
I'm like, okay, now they haveall the answers here.
They probably were annoyed withhow many times I was contacting.

SPEAKER_04 (49:33):
So it was you, thank you.
That's why they never answer thephone.
And they have a phone number.
They do?
They really do, right?
Oh, they do now?
I answer?
No.
They've never when I was gettingmy BCBA, you could call them and
then you couldn't call themanymore as an email, and then
you took it up.
Okay.
I haven't tried in a while.
Maybe maybe they do.
I'm sure they do.

SPEAKER_00 (49:53):
It's an email for me, like the contact forms, and
then I wait patiently.

SPEAKER_04 (49:57):
Yes.
Yeah.
Yes.
So that's exciting.
So is your market more toorganizations who are going to
use this?
Is your market more towards thepeople about to accrue their
hours that you want them to kindof uh get membership?
What uh what is your market?

SPEAKER_00 (50:12):
And where do they find you also?

SPEAKER_04 (50:13):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (50:14):
MentraTrack.com.

SPEAKER_04 (50:16):
Oh can you spell that please?

SPEAKER_00 (50:18):
We will put it in the the show notes, but
M-E-N-T-R-A-T-R-A-C-K.

SPEAKER_04 (50:24):
MentraTreck.com.
It will be in the uhdescription.
Check it out.

SPEAKER_00 (50:29):
Yes, thank you.
Um, so it's for trainees who arecollecting their hours, right?
So for field work, whicheverpathway that they choose, the
concentrator or the supervisedpathway.
And for trainees who we have alot of them to transfer it over
from other platforms.
I had a trainee that transferredover 800 hours.

SPEAKER_06 (50:50):
Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 (50:50):
And one of the interesting cases that we had is
once those hours weretransferred, she noticed how
some of the months werenon-compliant.
There's no platform that checksfor compliance and does the
compliance checks to ensure thatyou really are meeting those
requirements each month.

SPEAKER_06 (51:06):
That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 (51:07):
So that was really exciting because I wanted that
piece of like, I don't want thetrainee to stress about it or
the supervisor and to be able tohave the data to support that.
So, for example, it would saylike you're out of two out of
four supervision contacts, soyou haven't met the requirement
yet because you need the fourcontacts, right?
Um, or the minimum 20 hours.

(51:27):
Um I'm talking about the olderrequirements specifically, but
now the hours have exceeded 160,or now they're 160, um, which is
great for some trainees.
But so our goal wasorganizations.
So for organizations to supporttheir staff that are in the
field work process, right?
We have a lot of single users,they find us organically, which
is great.

(51:47):
I think we're number two onGoogle search now, so it's
really exciting.
It was hard work to get there.
Like marketing is something Ihad to learn.
And it was it was new for surebecause I was not part of like
social media before and doingall of this online stuff.
And you know, I have to be onLinkedIn, and sure, I have a

(52:08):
community that we're growing andtalking to each audience.
Um, so they find us throughGoogle search, and then a lot of
them were referrals, right?
Okay, which is really excitingbecause that means people are
talking about it.
So the organizations are ourbiggest pilots right now that
we're piloting with, and thensomething exciting happened.
We had universities reach out tous.

SPEAKER_06 (52:29):
Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 (52:30):
So then that really supported, okay, now we are
supporting universities, andthat was a whole different ball
game because they are collectingtheir fieldwork hours through
their university, right?
But then some of them are alsoreceiving those remote BCBA
supervision companies as well.
So that was interesting to workwith.
Um, so I it kind of happenedreally fast again, but it's been

(52:55):
exciting.
We're again, we're still in openbeta and we really focus on the
feedback that our users aregiving us.
And with organizations, it's alittle bit different because
they have the organizationdashboard.
So that's where you know theexecutive team can have access
and have full oversight of theirteam for trainees and
supervisors.
And they have things of like,where are they in their process?

(53:18):
Are they, you know, at thebeginning stage, the second
stage, third stage, fourthstage?
Um, what's the estimatedcompletion date for each
trainee?
So we have a table that displaysthat it takes the average data
for that month that the traineeis collecting hours and it will
say like estimated completiondate for, I don't know, August
2027 or something.
Um, and then it also shows howmany supervisors are actually

(53:42):
approving hours for theirtrainees because we have an
approval flow that we've builtin.
So every trainee that submits anentry, it actually goes through
an approval flow through theirsupervisor.

SPEAKER_06 (53:54):
Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_00 (53:55):
And that data does not count towards their total
hours until the supervisorapproves it.
And that has been one of theirfavorite features.

SPEAKER_04 (54:02):
Awesome.
Sounds cool.
Yeah.
I need to get back in the BACBstreets, man.
Blah, blah.
I'm so everything's changing.
Uh I know.
I need to check the stuff out.
I I've done this for the last uh12 years in my various
companies.
I need to get back because wehave we have an RBT, our one RBT
is actually in the SDSU B C B Aprogram, just started.
Um, so she's asking me to sign acontract, so I need to get back

(54:24):
into the uh the streets to findwhat I'm what I'm signing on.

SPEAKER_00 (54:28):
We might need a good system.

SPEAKER_04 (54:30):
We're gonna talk about that talking about that.
Yes, we will beta test that forsure.

SPEAKER_02 (54:34):
And I can tell you like talking about this.
Would it surprise you to knowthat we're almost at two hours?

SPEAKER_01 (54:41):
That's amazing.
I love that.
I love that.
I love chatting.

SPEAKER_02 (54:45):
Well, no, good.
And that's that's the wholepoint here is we we, you know, a
lot of times people approach usand say, Oh, do we bring this
presentation, this publication?
We're like, we just want you totalk.

SPEAKER_05 (54:54):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (54:54):
Talk about what you're passionate about, and it
was very clear that you lovewhat you're doing, you're
excited about your project, andwe're very happy to have had the
time to hear it directly fromyou.
So thank you so much.
Um before we wrap up, maybe justone more time.
Anywhere that you want people tofind you, go ahead and mention
it now before we wrap up.
So, Mentor Track, anywhere elsethat you might want people to

(55:17):
find you at the moment?

SPEAKER_00 (55:18):
We're on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_02 (55:22):
Name it.

SPEAKER_04 (55:23):
All under Mentor Track.

SPEAKER_00 (55:24):
Yep.
Okay.
Yep.

SPEAKER_04 (55:26):
Cool.
Cool.
Uh we will definitely stay intouch outside of this about
collaboration because we coulddefinitely use your software for
sure.

SPEAKER_02 (55:33):
Super exciting to have a local guest and sit in in
person with them.
So thank you so much for givingus a part of your Sunday
afternoon here and beautifulday.
Now we'll get back to it.

SPEAKER_00 (55:43):
Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 (55:44):
Do you have uh the wrap-up?
We need our wrap-up, Dan.

SPEAKER_04 (55:46):
So yeah.
Um incorporate parents.

SPEAKER_02 (55:48):
Incorporate parents.

SPEAKER_04 (55:50):
Uh ethical and compliant supervision.

SPEAKER_02 (55:53):
Anything else?
And always analyze responsibly.
Cheers.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 (56:01):
Always analyze responsibly.

SPEAKER_02 (56:04):
ABA on tap is recorded live and unfiltered.
We're done for today.
You don't have to go home, butyou can't stay here.
See you next time.

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