Motivation, Movement, and Mindset: With Dr. Mallory Quinn, Part II

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:10):
Welcome to ABA on Tac, where our goal is to find
the best recipe to brew thesmoothest, coldest, and best
tasting ABA around.
I'm Dan Lowry with Mike Rubio,and join us on our journey as we
look back into the ingredientsto form the best concoction of
ABA on tack.

(00:32):
In this podcast, we will talkabout the history of the ABA
brew, how much to consume toachieve the optimum buzz while
not getting too drunk, and therecommended pairings to bring to
the table.
So without further ado, sitback, relax, and always analyze
responsibly.

SPEAKER_05 (00:52):
All right, all right.
Welcome back to ABA on tap.
I am your grateful co-host, MikeRubio, and this is part two of
our interview with MalloryQuinn.
Enjoy.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06):
It's interesting.
I submitted it, and I remember,you know, reviewer two, you
always have reviewer two who'slike their reviewer too, you
know.

SPEAKER_03 (01:23):
So don't be reviewer too.

SPEAKER_05 (01:27):
That's good for a shirt.
Don't be reviewer too.
I like that.
I love it.

SPEAKER_00 (01:31):
I love it.
But I remember they um, and Dr.
Miltenberger laughed about thisat the time too.
They said something about how mylanguage was very colloquial.
They were like, this, yeah, theywere like, this is so colloquial
the way you speak.
And uh Miltenberger and Ilaughed about it forever.
But what's so funny is like Ihave had so many people, and

(01:54):
this is not to like toot a hornor anything like that, but so
many people who have worked withme have said the way that you
explain things like is the firsttime like I understand them.
Like you explain, you talk likea regular person.
So that's just like an exampleright there of like reviewer two
was like, you're speaking toocolloquially.
I don't know if that's a word,but then I had I have people

(02:18):
now, again, my authenticity,people love working with me
because I speak that way.
And I feel like I reach moreclients because I speak that
way.
And it's been almost like ahallmark of the type of behavior
analyst I am.

SPEAKER_05 (02:32):
So will you speak a little bit at a how you address
that reviewer?
Because that that's somebodythat can be a thorn in your side
and um you know really compelyou to start editing things, and
then all of a sudden yourwriting isn't yours.
And we we see a similar thingwith uh the way we write goals
and being a little tooinnovative.
And this past week we had we wepaid our the price for being a

(02:54):
little too innovative and not uhwriting goals in the way that
other people might.
Um, how do you how did youhandle that, reviewer?
What did you end up doing?
I it sounds like you end upprevailing and keeping your
language, but I mean that thathad to be quite a back and
forth.
Okay, a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 (03:08):
Yeah, we we edited the article, but it was still, I
think it was still um in mylanguage because multiple people
after the article was publishedreached out and said they liked
that it was written that way.
Again, this was like, you know,the times before Chat GPT.
So our writing was like actuallyour writing.

SPEAKER_03 (03:27):
Plus, ABAI is probably gonna be consumed with
some more scientific or morepeople in the field.
A parent's probably not gonnapick up the journals that you
wrote.
So I guess it would make sense.

SPEAKER_00 (03:38):
Yeah, I guess like my point is that a lot of the
things that kind of like made mea not ideal grad student or not
ideal BCBA have allowed me toflourish in business and in life
and like really leaning intothose things and being like,
this is just who I am.
Like this is this is who I am.

(03:58):
And I spent so many like yearsof my life trying to fit myself
into this like mold that Iwasn't to try to prove that I
was actually an intelligentperson and like you know, I am
smart and I am these things.
And it's like that was just sucha waste of time.
So I I think that like again,back to that authenticity when

(04:21):
you do practice authenticallyand you give yourself
permission, again, withinreason, right?
You don't go crazy or beunprofessional, but when you
give yourself permission to beauthentic and like connect with
people in that way, and itdoesn't always have to be so
rigid and doesn't, like you guyswere saying, like we know these
things work, so just use thethings in your work.

(04:42):
It doesn't have to be like thiscrazy strict way.
And if and if you want topractice that way, that's cool.
That's again, my ABA can look alittle bit different than your
ABA.
For sure.
That's fine.

SPEAKER_03 (04:55):
Sounds like you're doing values-based stuff with
yourself, right?
Like saying that these are thethings that I value and this is
what's important to me, and justbecause it's not important to
someone else, which actually isinteresting because it and in
Pro Act we talk about culturalhumility and cultural
competency, and culturalhumility is understanding that
your culture isn't necessarilythe right way to do things,

(05:15):
there's other ways of doingthings, and it sounds like that
in ABA maybe we haven't done alot of cultural humility because
there are other ways ofcommunicating things to people,
and by saying this is the onlyway you can communicate it in
this technological term, whichin some ways is almost a
violation of technological uhthe dimension of ABA is like
lacking cultural humility,understanding that people do

(05:37):
things very very differently.
You also made me think about umwhen I think there's like an
arrogance with with ABA, um, andit comes maybe from the
scientific piece.
So it's ABA is an art and ascience, right?
And I think people say it's thescience of behavior, but Skinner
never said that, right?
He said it was the philosophy ofthe science of behavior, and

(06:00):
there's the philosophy, right?
So at the end of the day, we canall have a really good
understanding as scientificallyas we want.
And I think it comes from thisthere's a right and wrong with
science, which is true, right?
Like there's that concreteness,but that's not ABA.
ABA is the philosophy of that.
So at the end of the day, we'reall taking these concepts, but
we're philosophizing on them.

(06:20):
We're taking them and we'retrying to make the best.
There's that art piece that somuch gets lost, like you're
saying, with these theseconferences and things like
that.
Of yes, we might understand thescience so well, but at the end
of the day, we still have toimplement it, whether it's with
dance, whether it's with a childwith autism, whether it's with
somebody with an addictionissue, like you're not just
doing it in a lab.

(06:41):
Yeah, philosophy pieces.

SPEAKER_00 (06:42):
And I wonder if other I don't I can't really
speak on other fields, but Iwonder if other fields maybe are
better at doing that than weare, and that's why our field
has the perception that it has.

SPEAKER_03 (06:53):
Very, very rigid.
Um I do you work with um in thedance, do you work primarily
proportionally or not reallywith individuals with autism?

SPEAKER_00 (07:03):
Yeah, we do.
Um, so we have um quite a fewkids with autism.
Um, we have additional servicesto integrate them and include
them in um classes.
If that's not a possibility andthey do one-on-ones, or a lot of
times they do one-on-ones inaddition to classes, we offer
that service as well.
Um, again, like without givingtoo much away of my business

(07:25):
model, uh, we have differentservice offerings, things like
where we work on gross motorcoordination and different ABA
targets in sessions.
Um, I've written a couplecurriculums around this, um,
which is in my online school.
So if someone does want to learnmore about like, I've done some
presentations on integratingmovement into like DTT sessions

(07:45):
and integrating movement intoclinical spaces.
So we have presentations onthat, we have curricula on that.
Um, people can access that aswell.

SPEAKER_03 (07:55):
So it's not just kids with autism or whatever
people with autism, you workwith all sorts of different
individuals.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (08:02):
Kids with autism is just a small portion of our
business.
Um, and to be honest, I thereason that it is a portion of
our business is when I startedmy dance studio, so many uh
parents of children with autismwho were interested in dance and
yoga like reached out becausethey already knew ABA and they
loved ABA, so it was a very easysell.

(08:23):
Like they were already like,ooh, another another
integration, and they wereexcited about it.
So I actually didn't even planon that being a part of my
business, but it was just again,the parents were so excited
about it that it hasn't become apart and evolved to be a a
significant part of thebusiness.
I would say probably like 30% ofour business or clients there.

(08:48):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (08:48):
So you started with ABA dance without autism.
Can you can you speak to that?
Because again, we reallyappreciate that insight.
Again, ABA and autism somehowgot linked, and it's like now
it's hard to separate them.
Can you talk about maybe how youmarket it to people?
Because ABA also has a kind oftarnished reputation in a lot of
circles as well.

(09:09):
Uh that might get people to belike, oh no, I don't want people
going to Dr.
Matthew.
She does ABA, that's that meanstuff people do with autism.
So can you maybe talk about ABAand dance, how you marketed it?
Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (09:21):
Um, I marketed it a lot through like my connections
in the dance world, which Ithink is another issue with
people opening businesses andABA outside, not an issue, but
you're gonna have a reallydifficult time getting profit
and marketing if you are not inthat world already.
Um, I sorry I keep talking aboutDr.

(09:44):
Miltenberger.
Just, you know, love him.
He was my mentor.

SPEAKER_05 (09:46):
Shout out to Dr.
Miltenberger.
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 (09:48):
Yeah.
Something he used to say ingraduate school, um, because I
always got my research donesuper quick.
Like people would be on thesesites, oh, this site gave up on
me.
This person dropped out, thisperson did that.
And he used to say, he was like,You always get your studies done
so fast because you have theseconnections with people in the
community.
Like I would work at this onedance studio and then use a

(10:10):
different teacher that workedthere for something, or I'd do a
contract, a performing contract.
I danced in a show with thisother person, and I'm doing, you
know.
So I always had these likereally good like community
connections and he saw that andacknowledged that.
And I think like that's a bigthing that makes a difference
when you're starting a businessin an area.
Um, I I always preach this toBCBAs that I work with that are

(10:33):
starting businesses, is don'tfeel like something's like above
you position-wise.
Like if you're trying to start abusiness and ABA and personal
training, you need to go work asa personal trainer.
You need to teach group fitness,you need to like get in with
those people.
And if you're not doing that,you're gonna have an incredibly
hard time building something andmarketing something.

(10:54):
When I first opened my business,I taught every single class on
the schedule.
I like you, you guys are like,how'd you get ABA clients?
I just got people in the door.
Like I got dancers in the door.
And then I was like, oh, you'restruggling with this.
I have a service for you.
You're, you know, your child'shaving issues with the teacher
saying no in class.
And I have a service for that,right?

(11:16):
You have to get it's it'sfunnels like in business.
You have to look at funnels andhow you're getting them in the
door.
And that bottom of the funnel,that client that's paying you
whatever high ticket hourlyamount they're paying you, they
came from the funnel where youjust brought everybody in.
So my answer to that is like youhave to have services that bring

(11:38):
everybody in, and then you canfunnel to the ones that really
need specific assistance withsomething.

SPEAKER_05 (11:46):
And you may not have had all those funnels identified
then.
You you brought everybody in,and then you had to actually
create some funnels at times.

SPEAKER_00 (11:53):
Yes, that's a really good point.
It takes time, it takes a lot oftrial and error.
Um, again, this is anotherconversation I have all the time
in business coaching is peoplesee my business and they're
like, oh, uh, they expect thatthey're gonna have that business
in like a year.
And I'm like, this took 10years, 10 damn years to get to
like where I'm at.
Like it takes a long time.

(12:14):
And these things have to berefined, they have to be
adjusted.
You see, like, oh, this person,this type of client, I call them
avatars, like this client avataris interested in these kinds of
services, and this person youcan funnel over here.
And yeah, like an example islike we early on, I had a yoga
studio and I got like a kids'yoga certification.

(12:34):
And um, we also had trampolinecardio classes, and the kids
love the trampolines.
And I was like, oh, we're gonnamake a yoga bounce class, right?
So we're gonna have the kidsbounce on trampoline and do
cardio, and then they're gonnado yoga and mindfulness.
I cannot even tell you how manyADHD kids I got in this class,
how many kids with autism I gotin this class, right?

(12:56):
Who were really vibing with thesensory of the bouncing on the
trampolines and the the theylearned to meditate.
I had kids with Down syndrome.
I had so many different types ofkids come in the door for this
class.
And then I got tons of kidssigned up for services, like
just from that class.
And there's been other types ofclasses that I've tried that I'm

(13:17):
like, oh, this class isincredible, and nobody signs up
for it.
So you have to you have to knowhow to pivot, how to adapt.
Um, people ask me too, they'relike, where do you think you use
ABA the most?
And I'm like, honestly, likewith my staff, like leading the
staff, it's like uh that's whereI feel like I use ABA more than

(13:38):
anything.
So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (13:39):
Well, that's because you're a business owner, like
you're you get a little bitmoved farther away for sure.
But I want to reflect back on myquestion.
So the the dance studios thatyou had, did you just open up a
dance studio and people came in,or did you open up the dance
studio as an ABA dance studio?

SPEAKER_00 (13:57):
Yeah.
So again, things are a slowtransition.
I took over a failing yogastudio.
Um, they were failing, they werebleeding money, so I got a
really good price.
And I basically moved in, gotall their stuff, and then um I
rebranded, so I had the fitnessclasses, and then I slowly

(14:20):
started doing um group classesand dance at the fitness studio,
and I slowly started adding ABAprivate lessons, and then um a
space opened up next door, andmy landlord reached out to me
about it, and this was likeduring COVID, and I was like,
I'm not signing a lease duringCOVID.
And he was like, Well, what if Igive you like six months free

(14:40):
and a build-out?
And I was like, All right.

SPEAKER_01 (14:42):
Yep.
Sold, buddy.

SPEAKER_00 (14:44):
So yeah.
So I ended up um that was thatwas six years ago, and that's
when we really branded as like,this is an ABA-based dance
studio.
We're gonna have a full scheduleof group classes and all the
things plus the ABA.
And then again, back topivoting, I slowly started uh
moving out of the fitnessstudios.
I ended up selling, I actuallyhad another location of the

(15:05):
fitness studio.
I sold one of them and then theother one, my dance studio just
moved in.
It just took over.
Um, but again, back to themindset stuff we were talking
about.
If I was in that very like rigidABA mindset, I would have just,
and this is how I was in thebeginning, I would have just
kept pushing the fitness studioand pushing the fitness studio
of like, oh, I just need to putmore money or more time or more

(15:26):
whatever because I don't want tobe seen as a failure.
Because that was my mindsetbefore.
And now my mindset is like, no,I learned so much from that
business that that's why mybusiness now, the one I really
care about and is valuesaligned, is so successful
because I learned everythingfrom that other business.
So again, it's all that mindsetwork.

SPEAKER_05 (15:47):
What a what a risk.
That's that's that's uhincredible.
So you you bought a failinglocation, yeah, and then
essentially did the same thing.
I mean that I mean that isremarkable.
You clearly had a grip on on howto rebrand.
I I think that was you knowlikely huge.
But I mean that's that's anexceptional risk you took.
Like I, you know, this sameservice in this location is

(16:09):
failing.
I'm gonna do the same thinghere.

SPEAKER_00 (16:11):
Yeah, we well, we we added a bunch of stuff and we
made it more, yeah.
But um, I learned a lot of thatjust from working for small
businesses.
So again, back to like not stuffyou learn in grad school.
They don't they don't teach youhow and again, no shade.
Like they're teaching you towork for places that are funded,
universities, insurancecompanies, those kinds of

(16:32):
things, but you don't learn howto build a business or how to um
do that day-to-day kind ofthing.
So um I learned a lot of thatfrom working as a peer bar
fitness instructor at peer barsfor a long time, or working at I
worked as a dance instructor atmany different dance studios,
and I saw things that I likedand things that I didn't like,
and that's how you learn.

(16:53):
So bar.

SPEAKER_05 (16:54):
That's that's perfect for ABS.

SPEAKER_00 (16:56):
That stuff is hard, man.

SPEAKER_03 (16:57):
That stuff is really hard.
That's a good point.
I mean, we've been in the fieldfor so long, and it's yeah, I
mean, it uh it makes me uh thinkabout like was it knocked up or
what one of the movies whereit's like gotta date sixes
before you get to the 10.
Like, you gotta be in a lot ofsixes uh with some companies for
to create the 10.
Like a lot of the the newerBCBAs think they know, but it's

(17:20):
like you don't know we'velearned so much of good and bad
from all of our all of ourexperiences, and I mean a lot of
them what resonates is like, oh,I'm never gonna do that, which
is a very, very valuablelearning experience.

SPEAKER_05 (17:32):
It made me think of a CEU.
We might have to partner withDr.
Mallory, but nobody I don't knowthat I've seen that.
Uh a course or a CEU on how toexplain a ABA to the common
person.
I mean Kendall's book is onthat, right?
Well, she's got the thesaurus.
So Kendall Rindack Samuel has athesaurus of terms, which I
guess goes for that.
But yeah, I think that you makea really good point.

(17:53):
So how do you how do youadvertise the ABA or how does
that fit into your marketingthat then sets you apart from
every other dance studio?
We've had uh we recently had aguest on who's gone the other
way with autism treatment and uhdoesn't actually uh advertise
the behavior analysis because ofthe state of the field.
Even when she hires uh RBT, shedoes get them RBT uh certified,

(18:16):
but she doesn't hire, shedoesn't list that she's hiring
for RBT, she calls them likelearning specialists or
something.
I think that's smart.
Yeah, once they come in thedoor, then she's like, hey, I'm
gonna teach you the way you'regonna do the learning
specialist.
I think that's really smart.

SPEAKER_00 (18:28):
You hire the right person and give them the
training.

SPEAKER_05 (18:32):
Yeah, and that's kind of what you're doing is
you're you're finding the personthat can do the job, and then
you're training them on the ABAas they need after that.

SPEAKER_00 (18:40):
Yeah, and I think my answer to your question, the
thought that came up is I try toshow it rather than tell it.
So I think like in our socialmedia, the things that we post,
the things that we share, thethe language that we use, the
tone that we use, people get thevibe right away that we're
different.
Um, and again, like theygravitate to us.

(19:02):
I really don't post too muchabout the ABA stuff that I do.
Um, I do on my consulting page alittle bit more because of again
the nature of my marketingthere.
I'm trying to show otherbehavior analysts like, hey
guys, this is what I do day today.
So I talk about it a lot morethere.
But um on my dance studio page,yeah, we don't really talk much
about ABA.
It's really um just about thedancing, about the kids.

(19:24):
Um, and then a lot of timespeople are like, what is ABA or
what does ABA SI stand for?
And then I explain it to themand they're like, oh, that's
really cool.
But again, it's like more solike that funnel model of we get
people in that are that vibewith us because of the presence
that we put out there.

(19:45):
Like a specific example is like,you know, last week I made a
post of like why we don'tcompete.
And I made a little carouselpost on our dance studio page of
like these are the reasons thatwe don't compete.
And I went over like a littlebit of research and a little bit
of like this was my work in gradschool.
And like most of those peopledon't even know that about me.
Like they're not, they're noteven there for that reason, you

(20:06):
know.

SPEAKER_03 (20:06):
What page, uh, when you say page, are you talking
LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram?

SPEAKER_00 (20:10):
Oh yeah.
So I have a couple.
Um, my personal Instagram, ifyou guys want to follow me, is
Mallory underscore ABA DanceDoctor.
And then I have my dance studioInstagram is ABA S I Dance Lab.
Okay, and then my consultingcompany is ABA Sports
Innovations.
So those are all the differentpages.

SPEAKER_05 (20:30):
And we're gonna have you recap that again in about 20
minutes.
So don't lose whateverrepresentation.
And we'll put it in the link.
And we'll put it in the linkjust to make sure people can
find you.

SPEAKER_00 (20:39):
Yeah, but again, I think like a lot of companies,
they're they're so focused onmarketing ABA.
And like, I just keep seeingthese like new companies pop up,
and and all the posts are like,this is what ABA is, and like,
how do you use ABA with liftinga weight?
And how do you use ABA?
And it's like, it's too much.
Like, people don't even theydon't care.
Like they just want to see, theyjust want to see like the change

(21:02):
and have a good vibe and see,you know, and you can still
practice ABA and do all thosethings.
It's just you know.

SPEAKER_05 (21:10):
Well, you also did say earlier something about uh
DTT and movement, which I thinkis completely erroneous.
You can't you can't have kidsmove if they're doing DTT, they
have to sit, right?

SPEAKER_03 (21:20):
Oh, that's true in the IKEA chair.

SPEAKER_05 (21:21):
I know I'm kidding.
I'm totally kidding.

SPEAKER_00 (21:24):
An obstacle course with little stuff.

SPEAKER_05 (21:26):
Dr.
Quinn, Dr.
Quinn, no, they have to be agood thing.

SPEAKER_03 (21:30):
Anything in the room.
The parent can't be in the room.

SPEAKER_05 (21:35):
Right, the parent can't be in the room.
It's got to be an isolatedportion of their house.
So we we come from that cards.
Lamination is very important.
Um, we've come from thattradition.
We we make a lot of fun of thatstuff.
Wait, wait, so kids don't haveto sit while you're doing
discrete trial?
You mean the trial itself is theimportant part?
They can move around?
Wow.
But I you know, we're beingfacetious, maybe a little too

(21:57):
much.
Unfortunately, it's we seecolleagues out in the field that
are still in that mindset.
And it's like, no, man, like thetrial is the important part.
The table and the chair werejust one example of how this
goes.
Yeah, you know, geez.

SPEAKER_03 (22:13):
So um question.
So back in your your originstory, um, I think you said when
you went into grad school, you Ithink I might have quoted you
correctly or wrong.
You can correct me if I quotedyou wrong, but you said I
learned how to do morescientific dance.

unknown (22:28):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (22:29):
What do you mean by that?
Speak to that.

SPEAKER_00 (22:31):
Oh, yeah, that's such a good question.
So um for example, dance therapyor art therapy, and I could be
saying this wrong because thosearen't my fields, but my
understanding of it is the actof engaging in the activity
itself is the therapy.
Um, the difference or how Iexplain to people of how we do

(22:52):
ours in one-to-one session is weintegrate dance and we integrate
yoga as like tools, right,during the session.
So, again, like we just touchedupon, like maybe we're working
on labeling animals and they doan obstacle course and they pick
up the stuffed animal and theylabel the animal, or maybe um
we're teaching them breath work,we're teaching a child breath

(23:12):
work through yoga for emotionalregulation when they're having a
tantrum.
But the but just doing yoga withthe child isn't the therapy
itself.
That is used as like a tool ormaybe a reinforcing activity
during session, those kinds ofthings.
So it just looks a little bitdifferent in that way.
Um, but again, this is me beingcrunchy and loving other things.

(23:35):
I love learning about likesomatic movement, and I do
integrate some like somaticmovement things into my session
as well.
So um maybe I have a dancer whois struggling with present
moment awareness, right?
She has anxiety, she's alwaysthinking about the past,
ruminating about the past,worrying about the future, those
kinds of things.

(23:56):
Um, maybe I do integrate alittle bit of somatic work where
we play a song and we movethrough the emotion and we take
pauses and we do breath work andthose kinds of things, in
addition to those classic ABAstrategies or act work that I'm
using with her.

SPEAKER_05 (24:12):
I I love this.
You just mentioned emotion andABA in the same sentence, and
those are historicallydiametrically opposed.
Will you will you talk about howyou define emotion for your
students uh or how you talkabout it?
That's really interestingbecause I think it's something
that um we miss.
We miss a lot of because youknow, the idea of memory or
emotion anxiety, we've beentalking about this, you know,

(24:35):
throughout this conversation.
Those are really hard things forapplied behavior analysts to
quantify.
And a lot of people get reallytripped up on that to the point
where you can't have thatconversation, but you're having
it successfully and with goodoutcomes based on what you want
to do for your students.

SPEAKER_00 (24:50):
So what is emotional?
Yeah, yeah, I'm sure people aregonna be so there's gonna be
some people that might be veryupset with things that I'm
saying.
And again, that's that's anemotion, though.
That's okay.
Yeah, your feelings are validfor some path upset right now.

SPEAKER_03 (25:04):
Wait, so they're gonna get emotional about you,
but you saying that emotions arepart of behavior.

SPEAKER_05 (25:09):
Wait a minute, this is crazy.

SPEAKER_00 (25:11):
Your feelings are valid.
Um, no, so something, somethingthat I learned a lot outside of
graduate school, and again,through like my own kind of
woo-woo training in uh 500 hoursof the training.

SPEAKER_05 (25:23):
I was like woo-woo training.
Woo-woo training.

SPEAKER_03 (25:25):
I need some woo-woo training.

SPEAKER_00 (25:27):
The 500 hours of yoga teacher training I did, and
all the all the podcasts Ilisten to and books I read of
like holistic things.
Um, the mind affects the body,and the body affects the mind.
And there's such a like hugeconnection there that isn't
really talked about in graduateschool.
Which again, no shade.
They only have a certain amountof time, they gotta get you to

(25:49):
pass the exam.
That's not a that's not a focus,right?
No shade to any graduateprograms.
But um that is a huge thing thatis missing in in our education
and in our work with clients.
And like, for example, when Iwork with supervisees, the first
book that we read in conjunctionwith ABA textbooks is The Body

(26:10):
Keeps the Score.
So we read about how bodyaffects mind, how mind affects
body, things like breath work.
Um a lot of times people arelike, well, what's the point of
breath work?
Like, I'm I'm not gonna sit hereand relax when I'm having a
tantrum.
That statement means that youdon't understand breath work
because what breath work does isit literally it I can't, I'm

(26:34):
not, I'm not a medical doctor,so don't uh misquote me.
Go for it.

SPEAKER_03 (26:38):
Oh, I was waiting for a bad pun there.

SPEAKER_00 (26:40):
Like there's a there's a mechanism when you
turn on your parasympatheticnervous system, right?
You turn on this nervous system,you activate your vagus nerve,
you do all these things.
It literally tells your mind tocalm down.
So even when your mind isspinning or whatever's going on,

(27:02):
if you can regulate your body,you can also regulate your mind.
And there's this connectionthere that ABA just completely
like ignored standard ABA justcompletely ignores or overlooks,
or even things like food like achild's diet greatly affects
their behavior.

(27:22):
So like I've had again, peopleare gonna get angry about this,
and that's fine.
But I've had clients who likethe parents are like, oh my
gosh, out of nowhere, likethey're depressed, and and we're
getting them on antidepressantsand all these things.
And again, I'm not anutritionist, but I'll be like,
What is your child like eating?
Oh, they eat like they eatMcDonald's once a day.

(27:43):
Does your child get sunlight?
No.
Does your child go on walks?
No.
Your child used to be a figureskater and now they're not
figure skating anymore.
What are they doing afterschool?
Oh, they're going into theirdark room and they're on social
media.
Okay, well, there's tons ofresearch on social media effects
on teenage, like all thesethings, and these all play a
role.

(28:03):
Like, I can write a behaviorintervention plan on like I
don't know, random things, butlike if you're not looking at
all these other things, it'slike you're missing a huge piece
of the puzzle.

SPEAKER_05 (28:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, so many of these, and youmentioned a couple of them, like
optic flow and and sunlight,which I think is is really
important.
And there's these these simplethings that we can engage in.
Um I I guess maybe because inABA we're used to prompting the
desired behavior or we have tosee it happen.
So the idea that I'm just gonnago out in the morning and get 10

(28:38):
minutes of sun on my face and inmy eyes, um, we don't
necessarily see the effect rightafterwards.
So I don't know if that leads tosome of the skepticism.
Um, as far as the diets areconcerned, it's so interesting
because historically, I thinkwe're we're caught in this
denying the empirical validationof you know GFCF diets uh toward

(28:59):
some cure of autism.
So we're gonna deny that.
And we kind of got stuck thereto your point.
Like all of a sudden, we're notgonna consider food outside of
edible reinforcement because, ofcourse, that's not gonna have
any you know any effect orcollateral effect on your
behavior.
Of course, it does.
In fact, if anything, if I workwith young clients and there's
eating or sleeping concerns,we're gonna start there.

(29:21):
I don't care about anythingelse.

SPEAKER_00 (29:23):
Your nervous system over time, those things are
cumulative over time, so itbuilds, it builds up and it
manifests and it shows up indifferent ways.
And okay, another controversialstatement.
I think people in our fielddon't understand the connection
because they're not making theconnection in their own life.
They're not going out in themorning and getting sunlight,

(29:44):
they're not eating a certainway, they're not self caring,
they're not engaged in theirfitness.
And that's why they don't seebecause again, it's it's not
it's not even a debate.
There's so much research on it.
It's not it's not a question,it's scientific, just like our
science.
Stuff is scientific, but theydon't see that because they're
not using it in their own lives.

(30:04):
Because I didn't see it till Iused it in my own life, and they
were like, Oh, hey, like yourlupus is in remission.
We don't know how this happened,but but it is, or like, you
know, I didn't change anythingabout my diet, but I I look
completely different because Iam getting 10 minutes of
sunlight in the morning, or mywork productivity is completely
different.
All these things.

(30:25):
So I think that's a huge piece,is like behavior analysts don't
see it because they don'tpractice it, and that's a huge
problem in the field.
Like, we're teaching kidsemotional regulation and we're
not emotionally regulatingourselves.
So, like, that's weird.

SPEAKER_03 (30:39):
I think there's also so I think there's a whole lot
of validity in what you'resaying.
I'm gonna give a slightlyalternative take that I think
that maybe one of the reasonsthat a lot of people in our
field um don't maybe prescribeto that is because a lot of
times when it's come out, like Iremember when the GFCF die,
right?
Jenny McCarthy came out withthis cures altism, or these

(31:01):
things come out and people takeit to the far extreme and
they're like this cures altism,and now we're thinking, okay,
now we're gonna be out of a jobas a result of that.
And number one, I don't evenknow what cures autism, I don't
know what that statement means,but that's how it's presented.
And I think it sometimes peopletake these things too far
absolutely now they're not validanymore, but there's a there's

(31:23):
like there's a middle groundthat's so true, like yes, a lot
of these things may have a havea huge impact into autism.
Um and the G the GI system has Imean, we're learning now how
that's like the second brain.
Um so that's kind of my thoughtis that I think what you're
saying is true, and I also thinkthat sometimes people have these

(31:44):
anecdotal statements.
Medication would be another one.
Um, you know, parents will say,like, oh my child started taking
this um, you know, this um likeVesperidone or something like
that, and and now they'retalking all the time, and now
now they now they can do theirmath, and it's like, well,
Vesperidone I don't think isteaching your child to do math.
There might be an effect withthat.

(32:04):
So I think sometimes it's theseover-extreme ideas that then
make people on the other sideget defensive and then leave us
in this like very politicizedno-win situation where both are
probably true.

SPEAKER_05 (32:16):
That's my single attributions, but I've got to
tell my Apple story.
You just mentioned it.
So, this idea that you know I'vegot a client and uh are the
target's Apple, we're gonnateach them to identify and say
Apple, and we work on it, andwe're presenting the flashcards,
and we're eating apples atsnack, and then the kid starts
their ADHD medication the nextday they say Apple, and the
parent goes, Oh my god, they'rewhat the medication did.

(32:36):
And it's like, oh, wait aminute.
We've been working on that forlike four weeks.
You think that that this littlepill, they put it in their
mouth, and then immediatelyApple is what the effect was.
Are you sure that was themedical uh the therapeutic
effect of this uh stimulant?
Because we've been working onApple for three weeks.
I guess it's single attributionsthat get made to your point.

(32:57):
Yeah, both sides of the stuff.
Definitely, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (32:59):
Yeah, definitely.
And yeah, the extreme isdefinitely a big issue, but I
feel like there's also so muchpower.
And if you are like a highlyeducated person, like in science
or in our field, and then youalso can say, like, but I also
understand, and and um what wordam I looking for?

(33:20):
I I understand and I I identifythe the value of like these
other things as well.
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 (33:27):
Yes, yes.
Are you familiar with theDunning-Kruger effect?

SPEAKER_00 (33:31):
The who?

SPEAKER_03 (33:31):
The Dunning Kruger effect.
No, so look it up.
Basically, it's a it's an effectthat shows that when people
people start with like noknowledge or information about
something, and then when peoplestart to get a little bit of
information about something, ohyes, they think they know
everything about it, and thenactually the more information
you get about it, the more yourealize you don't know.
So you'll see like thisparabolic knowledge drop.

(33:53):
Oh, that's cool.
That's what BCBA is, right?
The more you realize like youdon't know everything, the more
you're in the field, the moreknowledge you get, the more you
realize, wait, I don't knoweverything.
I don't know anything aboutdance, I don't know much about
diet, I don't know much aboutsleep, I know about
reinforcement.
But like let's collaborate.
Let's we don't know everything.
It's that that Dunning Krugereffect.

(34:14):
So I think the more people thatare longer in the field, I know
we've learned so much from thepodcast, and parents, the people
we're supposed to be giving thetreatment to, we learned so much
about.
Like, I I totally agree withwhat you're saying about that
collaborative piece, it's soimportant.

SPEAKER_05 (34:27):
They're gonna rename that to the TikTok effect, I
think.
That's where you learn, that'swhere everybody knows and learns
everything though, right?
TikTok.

SPEAKER_00 (34:35):
We were just talking about that yesterday with the
teenage dancers.
We have such a problem with themlike thinking they know
everything or being like, oh, wedon't need we don't need to
learn any more from you.
And we're like, it's the TikTok.
Like they see things on TikTokand they're like, I don't need
my teacher.

SPEAKER_05 (34:49):
Man, never have we had more access to information
and and and utilized it sopoorly.
Like never in the history ofmankind have we had so much
access to information yet.

SPEAKER_03 (34:59):
Well, without being political, like COVID showed
that you have an abundance ofinformation, but you don't know
what's you get like two with it,diametrically opposed stories
about the same, whether it'svaccine or whatever, and now
you're introducing AI, so youdon't even know it's true
anymore.

SPEAKER_00 (35:13):
Yeah, everyone has their lens that they um receive
the information through.

SPEAKER_03 (35:21):
Your dissertation.
Uh you talked about manipulatingantecedents and consequences
within dance.
I think that I think you justgave kind of like a quick one as
you told your story, but can youspeak more to your dissertation
and kind of what it was, whatyou learned from it?
I'm sure there's a lot ofinteresting stuff from that.

SPEAKER_00 (35:37):
Sure.
Sorry, I've just likecompartmentalized that to the
back of my mind.
Oh, we don't have to talk aboutit if you don't want to no, no,
no, no, it's cool.
Um, so during the time that Iwas in graduate school, I did
research on a couple ofdifferent procedures within
dance.
So kind of under this umbrellaof like behavioral coaching,
right?
Um, so things like tag teach oracoustical feedback.

(35:58):
We did peer acoustical feedback,we did video modeling and video
feedback, and we also did umpublic posting and graphical
feedback as like a motivationalum strategy as well.
So for my dissertation, I putall of those into a manual
called the Point Program, whichstands for or stood for positive
interventions to enhance theperformance of dancers, which we

(36:21):
ended up rebranding the manualto be athletes and include all
kinds of different sports inthere.
Um but I think what the mostcompelling part of the manual
was for dance teachers, and theyreported this as well, wasn't
really the learning of thosefour specific interventions.
It was really the learning howto task analyze a dance movement
and break it up into um thesemany different observable

(36:44):
components and collect data onthose components.
And that's something that adance studio can use really in
anything that they're doing,whether they're using ABA or
not, they can learn to collectdata on their dancers'
performances, which is reallycool.
Um, so yeah, so for thedissertation, we tried to see
if, or we looked at if danceinstructors could learn to use

(37:08):
these strategies from just amanual versus the behavior
analysts coming in and pulling astudent out of class and doing
it with them kind of thing.
Um, and we found that they wereable to, um, but it did require
a lot of in-person coaching andtraining and you know, just
having a manual and some videoswas not sufficient.
Um, it required a lot more thanthat.

(37:29):
Uh, one of my supervisees, sheum, who I work with now, she
actually did an extension ofthat study where she made like a
software and did um more of avirtual training, and she had
great results with that as well.

SPEAKER_05 (37:44):
Yeah, we uh ladders, right?
Those who do we have uh recentlywas talking about that.
Uh free attorney.
Yep.
Well, uh I'm forgetting rightnow, but yeah, the we we've had
somebody similar who's doingthat with early intervention and
uh parental involvement.
So parent-driven ABA using anapp, same kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 (38:00):
And yes, there's a coaching session once a week or
whatever, but really the parentsdoing everything and following
that app, which we think is Ithink that's beautiful for
dissemination, and it might notwork for everybody, but um, I
think it's a nice option forpeople to have that makes it
more accessible.

SPEAKER_03 (38:16):
Yeah.
So not to date you, um, but thatdissertation was how long ago?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (38:21):
If you don't mind me asking, um, I graduated with my
PhD in 2017.
So almost a decade ago.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (38:30):
Not too long.

SPEAKER_00 (38:30):
We don't count the COVID years, but uh, like like I
said, I got started really earlyin the field.
So I was a behavior therapistwhen I was 18 years old.
So again, that was kind oflucky.
I was a BC ABA when I was 21.
So I I I found what I wanted todo early and and ran with it and
just kind of evolved from there.

SPEAKER_05 (38:50):
So you did the in-home thing then.
You've you you've got theexperience.

SPEAKER_00 (38:54):
Yes.
You want to talk about that alittle bit?

SPEAKER_05 (38:55):
Talk about that a little bit.
Like, yeah, how did that what doyou remember?
How did that transfer over towhat you're doing now?
Hearing criticisms of the fieldnow that largely stem from the
medical model and in-homeservices.
Where do you go?
Oh yeah, they're still doingthat, they're getting it wrong.
Or yeah, how do you how does itresonate with you currently?

SPEAKER_00 (39:14):
Yeah, so um, yeah, I I started, I was doing, I never
did DTT in a clinic, I will saythat.
I never did like any sort oftable time, I don't know if they
still call it that, but AVAtherapy.
I don't know.
Um never in my life, never in mylife.
I've never used the BB map, I'venever used Abel's.

(39:34):
I've learned about it.
I I learned enough to pass theexam.
I've taken CEUs on it.
I understand, like, I understandit, um, but I've never used it
before.
So I worked uh when I firststarted in the field, I did
mostly like on-site, kind ofknow what you would call it, but
like work with clients at yeah,like ADTs.
Um, they were at like adult daytraining centers, um, group

(39:57):
homes, those kinds of things.
I worked a lot with adults.
And then um I also worked infoster care for a brief period
of time, and it was so rough.
Yeah, I worked in it for I don'teven think I made it a year.
It was it was really rough.

SPEAKER_05 (40:13):
Man, that's heartbreaking.

SPEAKER_00 (40:14):
Um yeah, and I actually like again back to like
my kind of health issues.
I I picked up some stuff when Iwas working in like bad areas,
like I yeah.
So um I just it wasn't reallyfor me.
Um, but I did have thatexperience working in foster
care and then working withadults.
Um, I worked with adults forprobably like five years, so

(40:39):
quite a bit.
Um, but never did DTT ever.

SPEAKER_03 (40:44):
So um you you something that you're really
passionate about.
Uh are you are you there?
Oh, perfect.
Good.
You're you're good.

SPEAKER_05 (40:50):
You're you were frozen uh visually for a second,
but you could hear us.
That's good.

SPEAKER_03 (40:54):
Something really passionate you brought up a
couple of times is the theburnout with B C BAs.
It seems like that's somethingyou're you're really or women in
the field of ABA, I guess noteven just B C BAs.
Um can you speak to that andalso some like specifics of of
things that maybe resonate withyou or some things that you
found that you're verypassionate about when it comes

(41:14):
to reducing burnout,particularly with women in the
business women?

SPEAKER_00 (41:18):
Oh, sorry, I'm just reconnecting.
Sorry.
Okay, you cut out when you saidum brought up the burnout with
BCBAs.
That's where it cut off.

SPEAKER_03 (41:27):
I think I think we're good now.
Can you hear me okay now?

SPEAKER_00 (41:29):
Yeah, yeah, perfect.

SPEAKER_03 (41:30):
I was saying it just seems like that's something
you're really passionate aboutis uh burnout with uh women
business owners, BCBAs, um whathave you.
So can you speak to some of thethings that really resonate with
you?
Maybe some strategies that youfound to to be effective that
you really vibe with?
Um again, it just seems likesomething you're really
passionate about.
So the floor is yours to talkabout that.

SPEAKER_00 (41:51):
Um so yeah, I actually have a model that I use
in my business coaching um whereum we work through different
areas of things that we'vetalked about, such as
boundaries, regulation, um,these kinds of uh it's stand the
acronym is Brave, um, butvalues, embodiment, all just all

(42:14):
these different areas that wework through.
But I think a really big thingwith women is just like people
pleasing.
And um I watch male businessowners a lot in the way that
they run their businesses and Ilearn a lot from them.
And like, for example, I justjust a little example.
I made a post last week about umlike women always use like

(42:38):
emojis in their communications.
They always use like smileyfaces and like emojis and
explanation points.
And back to Millenberger, heused to joke about that with me
too.
And like we're we're kind ofconditioned.
I feel like that comes from likeit's like these little things
that we do that we don't evenrealize like come from our
conditioning.
So like we're conditioned to uhsay things with like an emoji or

(43:02):
an explanation point almost aslike a please like me still kind
of thing when we're givingfeedback.
And something that I was talkingabout in my post is like that
actually takes away yourauthority, and um, you know,
there's research on that.
It and and men don't reallyspeak that way, right?
Like if a man sends an email orfeedback, there's not a smiley

(43:24):
face or an emoji, there's notlike an lol when an invoice is
attached or whatever.
So things of that nature.
Um, just little thing, littlethings that we do in our verbal
behavior.
Like we love to add just tothings, um, saying like I just
whatever, or I just, and thatcan kind of negate the statement
that you're saying, and ratherthan just saying the statement.

(43:44):
So uh that's a lot of ABA theretoo, is just see, I just did it
there and I just did it again.
Learning about, you know, evenways that we can shape our
verbal behavior or like noticingconditioning that we've had that
might make us communicate acertain way, where we can be

(44:05):
perceived as less authoritarianor less um maybe a little bit
less respect or whatever.

SPEAKER_05 (44:13):
Even confidence, maybe in terms of like you're
saying.
Like me, like me, as opposed tohey, this is what I'm about, and
take it or leave it.
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (44:19):
Yeah, right.
And it took so many years, it'ssomething I'm still working on,
but it took so many years for meto really be okay with just
giving feedback.
Did it again.
I added just again.
Giving feedback and without allof those superfluous like words
attached to it.

SPEAKER_05 (44:37):
So uh my my uh my trick has been the word simply,
which is now overused, but justand still, simply is is my go-to
now.
It's it's not just or still,which is good, but now I'm
overusing simply.
So if you want to take that, gofor it.
Simply, simply simply, I simplydo this.

SPEAKER_03 (44:55):
That comes across very uh dismissive from the
other side because it's like no,you're making it simple for us.
Thank you.
Thanks.
I I appreciate that.
It's obvious.
Not all of us went to Stanford,my bad.

SPEAKER_00 (45:06):
Oh jeez, here you go.
But yeah, there's so many littlethings that show up.
Um, I think I learned a lot toofrom owning a that gym for
women.
It was frustrating because itwomen would come in and they'd
be like, Oh, I'm getting I'mgetting fit for my wedding, and
they'd be taking care ofthemselves and doing all the
things, and then you'd likenever see them again after like
three months.

(45:27):
And I talked to like a lot ofpeople that own women gyms, and
they're like, Yeah, that's justlike how women are.
And I was like, this is sofrustrating because men aren't
that way, like they just takecare of themselves, like they
they go do the thing, and it'snot or don't.
Oh, or don't, but yeah, and thenwe own it.
Yeah, like I'm taking care ofmyself for three months so I

(45:47):
look good in a picture, kind ofthing.
So, just again, like all thisconditioning and the way that
we're taught to show up and wehave to look a certain way.
And I this could be a three-hourpodcast.
I have so many opinions on it,but even things like like my dad
is my accountant personally andfor my business, and sometimes
he's like the amount of money hesees me spend on things like my

(46:09):
hair and nails and things likethat.
And I say to him, I'm like,listen, there is actual research
that if women don't get theirhair and nails done and wear
makeup to work, they are nottaken as seriously and people
don't spend as much money withthem.
And there's real research onthat, so so much.
So even things like that, likeit's just wild.

SPEAKER_03 (46:28):
Yeah, so it sounds like you're you're struggling
with resonating with theirvalues because their value was
looking good for a weddingpicture and your value was more
holistic long term.
Yes, yes, Dan.
Yes.
See, now we gotta get back tothe value stuff.
No, we gotta use AC.

SPEAKER_00 (46:45):
I'm saying that it's sad that this is how we're
conditioned from society.
It's sad that we are made tofeel guilty that we can't spend
money on our fitness long termor show up to the classes every
day long term.
That that that that's that's uhsavored for a special event.

SPEAKER_05 (47:03):
I just back to product versus process, one shot
versus a lifestyle that'shealthy.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (47:08):
It's also interesting.
I mean, and uh this isabsolutely extrapolating to
greater populations, but atleast in my anecdotal experience
from my girlfriend and justpeople in my life that it you
talk about um women and workingout.
A lot of times they seem to, andmy girlfriend's the same way,
like she can't really shedoesn't like to work out solo at
the gym, but like if she can goto a class or something, she

(47:29):
would do the boot camps.
Like those would resonate withher.
Where I don't see guys doing asmuch of like the boot camp
stuff, they can tend to work outmore solo in a gym.
I don't know if that's yeah,something that you've seen in
the game.

SPEAKER_00 (47:39):
Probably because women love community and like,
yeah, that's just I think backto our conditioning.

SPEAKER_03 (47:46):
Like, we love to be around other women, which is all
and it's cool though that you'rebringing all of this stuff, you
know, being being honest withyour emotions, and you tell you
call it the woo-woo stuff, andit's things like that that you
wouldn't necessarily see as atraditional business owner.
But I think somebody you talkedabout your tattoos and things
like that, like opening people'sminds to what is possible out

(48:09):
there, and like you said, youdon't have to fit into the
traditional mantra of whateverit is, you can be yourself and
still be successful.

SPEAKER_00 (48:17):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (48:18):
So Woo-woo ABA is gonna be the title of this
episode.
I believe Woo Woo ABA with Dr.
Mallory Quinn.
Is that the go for it?

SPEAKER_00 (48:25):
I love it.

SPEAKER_05 (48:26):
No, no, we we really appreciate that you've expanded.
Uh, and that you know, again, wewe're really enjoying that, and
meeting people that are outsideof autism treatment is really
bringing ABA to life.
Like this isn't just about thetreatment of this one specific
condition.
This is something that you cando for yourself every day.
Uh, it's it should be veryaccessible, and for whatever
reason, and and we're you know,we're guilty of it too.

(48:47):
We've we've made it a little bituh unattainable or out of reach
sometimes.
And I we really appreciate thatyou're bringing it to the masses
in that sense.
Um, something that you made methink about earlier that I think
is very relevant to whateverybody does with ABA if
they're working with clients.
How do you determine levels?
So the idea that somebody comesinto your studio, maybe it's an
autistic uh child, uh, thenotion that you're gonna decide

(49:10):
are they ready for a grouplesson versus I need to work
with them individually first.
Give us a little bit of insighton how that plays out.

SPEAKER_00 (49:18):
Um we have a bit of a screening process.
So we ask about like what theirdance experience has been in the
past.
Um, we do an assessment ifnecessary, but a lot of times
from that screening, we canrecommend certain classes for
them to trial.
And then based on the trial, umwe inform them from there.
Uh but yeah, for all of ourlevels, we have um a very

(49:43):
detailed, intricate checklist oflike what and sometimes it's a
range, right?
Sometimes it's like a range of askill, but they have to be like
within a certain area of allthose skills to move up levels.
Um and we set the expectationthat they might be in the same
level class for many years,things of that nature.
Everyone's progress isdifferent, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03 (50:04):
Cool, cool.
Can you can you speak?
So uh we just want to open upthe floor for you to talk about
your companies.
You also brought up yourInstagram pages, just where
people can find you.
Talk about is it it's ABA S I.
Is that yes, yeah.
Can you talk about where peoplecan find you?

SPEAKER_00 (50:22):
Yeah.
The dance studio is ABA S IDance Lab.
Um, we have a website, we havean Instagram.
Like I said, I don't post toomuch ABA stuff on there, but we
practice a lot at the studio.
And then um, my consultingcompany, where there is a lot
more ABA stuff posted, is ABASports Innovations.

(50:43):
Um, we've been around since2016.
And then my personal Instagramis Mallory, M-A-L-L-O-R-Y
underscore ABA Dance Doctor.
And then we have an onlineschool for behavior analysts for
RBTs who are looking to getinformation.

(51:04):
Uh, we have CEUs on there, wehave curriculums, we have guided
meditations you can use withyour clients if you're looking
for something a little morewoo-woo, all kinds of different
things on there.

SPEAKER_03 (51:17):
Um I bet you if you made a company called Woo-woo
ABA, I bet you it would get alot of eyes.
Woo wooaba.
We will have to get permissionfrom Dr.
Quinn.

SPEAKER_00 (51:25):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (51:25):
Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 (51:26):
Um, but that website is
learn.abasportsinovations.com.
And then my website, if you'relooking for information on
business coaching andsupervision, is
abasportsinnovations.com.
So I do work again with women,BCBA is looking to open
businesses outside of autism.

(51:47):
So we I've we primarily focus inhealth, sports, and fitness, but
we have a gamut.
Like one person I'm working withnow, she's a BCBA who does
psychedelic integrationcoaching.
So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (52:00):
You you peaked as a go ahead.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (52:03):
Sorry, what yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (52:05):
So um I I'm gonna have to look into that.
Yeah, outside of the box, um,different women looking to break
out of the mold.
And then yeah, I also supervisestudents.
So I have a a student rate ifyou're in school and you're
looking for supervision that'soutside of the box um to learn
some of these different things.

(52:26):
You can always reach out to mefor that.

SPEAKER_03 (52:28):
How do you uh how do you get 30 hours into a day?
Because you do like eightdifferent things.

SPEAKER_05 (52:34):
My question was when do you sleep?
Yeah.
I need to learn this.
When do you get sleep time in?
And then you get the optic flowin in the morning.
So you we know you're sleepingat some point, but we're not
sure when you're gonna sayspinning that in.

SPEAKER_00 (52:48):
You should know enough about me by now to know I
follow the sun.
Like, okay.
Um no, I think that when you'renot burned out, you can do a lot
more.

SPEAKER_05 (53:00):
Well, and I would I would add the only thing I would
add to that is that that you'renot burned out because you're
doing things the way you want todo them, and there's a certain
confidence and motivation thatcomes from that.
And I think we're experiencingthat uh currently and and
working a ton and then justbeing like, I I actually find
like I've I feel like I haveextra time on my hands.
What else can I do?
And so much of that comes fromfollowing following your

(53:21):
passion, following your ownlead, you know.
And I so thank you for forsharing your story.
I think it's uh it's chock fullof that inspiration and saying,
do things your own way, don't beafraid to break the mold, you
know.
Go uh uh chart new terror, yeah,chart new new paths.
Uh be authentic.
Um, Dr.
Mallory Quinn, we've covered alot of ground.

(53:41):
Anything that we didn't cover,you've given us uh everywhere
people can find you.
I hope to go out and find you.
We have at least you justmentioned the uh the women's
leadership stuff.
We have at least three formerguests or three guests on the
tap that we're gonna want toconnect you with that I think.
Yeah, uh that you do very wellwith.
But we'd like to do a quicksynopsis here.
Um uh what are we gonna say,Dan?

(54:02):
We're gonna say accept, commit.
Be authentic, be authentic,dance, and always analyze
responsibly.
Thank you so much, Dr.
Mallory Quinn.
Cheers.

SPEAKER_00 (54:12):
Thank you.
Thank you, guys.
Always analyze responsibly.

SPEAKER_04 (54:18):
ABA on chat is recorded live and unfiltered.
We're done for today.
You don't have to go home, butyou can't stay here.
See you next time.

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